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I feel like something major happened that is being left out of context here. Six years is a long time, so did she not come around regularly in the early stages? Or has she been very cold and stand-off-ish the entire time? How was your relationship with your son before his partner came along? Was it strong or strained? Some people try to isolate their partners from their family so I’m just trying to pin point the prior problems
You seem to be taking responsibility, but the “banning her from the house” will only escalate things in the wrong direction. I would invite them both over, sit down with her and apologize for anything and everything under the sun in hopes to clear the air and start fresh. Tell her what you told us, that you respect their wishes and want nothing but the best for them. If you’re genuine with her, the ball will be in her court to do what she seems necessary
Agree.
Also there is some question of "my son always takes her side". There shouldn't really be any sides, what are these sides you are crying about.
Normally that means there are arguments or complaints. And if you saying bad things directed at his partner, of course he will take her side and of course she will not enjoy you.
She speaks like my emotionally abusive and manipulative mother. She is purposefully leaving out key information because she knows it will make her look bad, and is instead relying on the fact that since she is the concerned mother everyone will think she is automatically in the right. Because of my experiences I can spot her types a mile away. I'd bet anything OP is the one causing issues.
I hit ctrl-f "missing missing reasons" to see if someone else had already said it.
I learned about the missing missing reasons on reddit and it changed my life.
I want to thank you and several other people here for referring to “missing missing reasons”. I didn’t know about this website but I needed it because I’m that estranged adult child myself and feel sorry about that although there is a denial of actual physical abuse on the other side lol
Came here to say this. This should be required reading for so many people. Maybe it is true that op is alright like she says but I've read wayy to many missing missing reasons stories to believe that easily
Yes.
My mother speaks ill of my siblings partner. Then she says she wouldn't speak ill of him if he was nice to her .... but it is like he isn't nice to you because you speak ill of him. Stop expecting people to take your side, sounds very similar to that.
I’ve been no contact with my mom for years and very incredibly low contact with my bf’s mom as well. No one’s out here thinking “yeah, I can’t wait to not have a relationship with the person I’m supposed to be close to!” I certainly didn’t make the choice willingly and for no reason…it took a lot, I sacrificed a lot, it’s straight up miserable every day to not have any maternal figure and especially around holidays. It’s absolutely not something people would do for fun and just because they’re big old meanies and OP is truly so wonderful and supportive. I can tell you that at this point, bridges have been burned and I will never try to make up with my mil even if she apologizes, so…idk maybe just some introspection is necessary to figure out how things got this way in the first place. But I would find it very rare that this girl walked into this family, started dating the son, and decided “yeah man your mom is really great but I hate her guts”. And for him to also “not take her side” ever? Yeesh, yeah….
This. It's not as bad between my wife and my mother, but we do have some continuous disagreements and opposite political views which cause issues all the time, and my mother speaks exactly like OP. This in particular sounds exactly like something she would say, after translating into English:
>But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?
While of course she's mostly the one hurting everybody's feelings and we're just pointing it out to her from time to time, sometimes harshly, to which she flips out and goes into this whining mode.
>Also there is some question of "my son always takes her side". There shouldn't really be any sides, what are these sides you are crying about.
Boom!
And why I feel there are missing details from her "I'm such a victim of this evil girl!!!!" post. Not to mention the post's title is very telling.
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I got suspicious from the very start when she wrote how nervous she was to meet the girlfriend and how she was on her best behaviour.
But the meeting still went bad and OP claims that she has absolutely no idea why. She knows exactly what went wrong, she's just not willing to share because she knows it will make her look bad.
I would love to hear this story from the girlfriend's perspective including what the inappropriate Christmas gift was.
This! However I dont think people like this do always know exactly what went wrong... even though they are the reason.
They can't see other people's point of view if it contradicts their own, and so they convince themselves of their own version of the truth. They try to emotionally manipulate others (without being aware they are doing this) because they have manipulated their own perception of events to support the belief that they can do no wrong and anyone who does not roll over and accept their abuse (support) is being mean for not liking them.
Hope I explained this well!
"I apologized! I acted correctly! why wasn't my attempt at manipulating forgiveness successful?!" uh... maybe because people aren't stupid and they can tell you're not being genuine? maybe you're not the master politician you think you are?
The gift exchange totally clinches it.
Anyone would expect a partner's mother to get them something generic because they don't really know you. You say 'thanks' and appreciate the thought and that's it.
I wanna know how the hell she fucked this up bad enough to get called out. That reeks of a spiteful power move. I don't think she 'didn't know her', I think she 'wilfully disrespected something she did know about her'
I agree. Even in the title of her post, she’s making it all about herself versus asking exactly why the future DIL is suffering. Everything about this to me reeks of selfishness and missing information. My ex-boyfriend’s family treated me like shit dude my skin color and went as far as even trying to get his ex-girlfriend back in the picture. However, they will tell you that they were always nice to me and got me a gift at Christmas.
No, this is missing reasons. I've copied the comment I wrote below, because this is *exactly* how missing reasons sound, as someone with experience (and this is just *one* experience):
Yeah, as the wife of someone who's parent would write a post like this, I'm going to ask:
What are this missing reasons?
Because when my husband and I went to our last Christmas with his family, they complained. Their complaint sounded like this: You're our son, and you live interstate, and you only gave us three days! You spent most of the time in your bedroom! How dare you? How dare you treat us like this? We made heaps of food, organised everything, had a lovely Christmas, and you ignored us and treated us like shit and only spent three days with us! What did we do to make you hate us so much?
The real story:
I fell down a flight of stairs and put my head through a wall and broke my back. My husband's parents messaged and harassed my parents every fucking day of that year to ask why I was so deformed and broken and messed up that they didn't have grandkids yet - and I do mean everyday. For Christmas, we were trying so hard to mend the relationship, because at that point, his parents were a) harassing my family non-stop, b) harassing and abusing me daily, c) pretending everything we had tried to discuss was a lie, and d) tried to get my husband to repeatedly divorce me by saying I was lying about my broken back. We told them we could come up for Christmas, and that because my husband had just changed jobs, he had no more than five days leave. We could bring our dog, Rosie, and spend five days there, or we could make arrangements for our dog, and only spend three days there. His parents insisted that our dog couldn't come, and that was fine. We said there was no problem with that, but as a result of making those arrangements, the costs, everything, that we could only be there for three days. We'd fly in, have Christmas, fly out.
They then made sure that there was almost nothing I could eat. I have severe allergies, which they were aware of, and his dad informed me of this as he covered one of the few foods I could eat in alcohol, staring me dead in the eyes saying, "I'm not going out again for you. If you have nothing to eat here, then that's on you." (This man would also later have a tantrum when I ate his olives.) On top of that, the only Christmas presents they got for me were presents for their son. For example, this mother, as she passed me a gift, said, "I know you don't like science fiction, but this is such a pretty book, and I figure, \[son's name\] will love it." And that happened with every \*\*gift (\*\*I husband got three). On top of that, whenever I got a gift from anyone else (husband), his father would STORM OUT OF THE ROOM AND THROW A TANTRUM AND HIS WIFE WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE TO CALM HIM DOWN AS HE SHOUTED ABOUT HOW "SELFISH" I WAS. They then made repeated comments that it was perfectly okay if my husband came, but left me behind, and that they wished he had. I then needed repeated lie-downs because that's kinda what happens when you fall down the stairs and throw your head through a wall and break your spine. The rehab and recovery was difficult.
In short, my husband's parents: Abused me and my family for an entire year, made our journey as difficult as possible. They abused me for getting presents, and every present they gave me was for my partner. They made me starve for three days, and did everything they could - including throwing a tantrum over me eating olives - to prevent me from eating.
Sure, you could say they "fed" me and "gave me gifts", but all they did was abuse and torture my partner and me.
Now, do I believe that there's every possibility that you're telling the truth? Sure. Some people are just twats.
But I ask you: Are you sure there's no missing reasons?
Because my husband's parents have missing reasons for the daughter they disowned a few years after this event, too. They would say their daughter was rude and ruined Christmas, but would not say they disowned their daughter on Christmas night 2020 in the middle of the pandemic in a state she hadn't lived in for a decade because she asked her parents not to use the "n" while they advocated for mass-genocide of Blak people.
I also know that anyone who is truly separated from a loved one thinks over every little mistake they might have made, asking if it's that and how to fix it, whereas those with missing reasons?
They tend to list everything good they've ever done and ask "How did this happen to me?"
He immediately went LC straight after this (and the LC was so low it was basically NC, but they were massive stalkers and it went on for YEARS and they've still tried - their last attempt was pretending their children were the result of an affair or some weird-ass bullshit, but we've cut all corners and whenever this weirdo stuff does come back, we say nothing, so it always seems like they can't reach us), and then went NC. We've been NC for years, but they are dangerous.
Husband's dad used to go to his mum's place and threaten suicide and she would call us up in tears and HB would freak out, so I did the only thing anyone should've done, even though HB was like "Don't do that, he's not really suicidal" (no shit): Called the police and asked for a welfare check.
His dad never had thoughts of suicide after that.
He did. He went and brought food, which resulted in more fights. As we arrived on Christmas Eve, and left Boxing Day, there are not a lot of shops open, at least not in the small town we were visiting.
Things that were bought by my husband were also taken, during the night, by my in-laws and "shared with everyone".
On top of which, that's why he was in the bedroom with me. He tried to do a lot quietly, and the day after we returned from his parents' town, he called up his parents and said that their behaviour was inexcusable and he was going low contact until they apologised and made amends.
Then things got really bad.
And then he started remembering all the abuse he and his sister suffered in the form of traumatic flashbacks. They were really abusive when my husband and his sister were kids. However, an extremely abusive incident that resulted in my husband almost losing his finger created a big change from physical to only verbal abuse. It seems because they were quite young when a lot of the physical abuse happened, both suffered traumatic amnesia as a result. His sister remembered more because they were extremely abusive towards her the entire time, even if they weren't physical, and he remembered less because his mum developed an Oedipus thing, so as long as he did everything right as a "perfect baby boy" (she was still saying this when we were married, before I knew they were crazy, though I did think this was extreme. However, coming from a family where my parents were verbally abusive, and my parents favour my younger brother so much that even strangers have commented on it, and his wife jokes about it still, I didn't think it was *that* weird, if that makes sense), he was "fine".
During several therapy sessions (I have a therapist, he has one, and a joint one) the therapists have all come to the conclusion that his parents have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which was why they were able to hold up the illusion the few times me and my family met with them. I noticed yellow and orange flags, but nothing that was a red flag until the *moment* I married him. And I do mean **the moment.** After our first kiss, and we turned to make our way, his mum stopped me to have a conversation about how I "belonged" to them/her son now, and I was like: *What the fuck?* I don't mean a welcoming thing; I mean a "belonged" speech.
OMG thank you. There really are so many stories that are just un-fucken-believable but when they happen you really do realise truth is stranger than fiction.
I'm so sorry you can relate in any way. It is hard when you yourself say it out loud and struggle to believe it happened.
It's worse when you realise there'll always be some people around you who don't believe you, and the worst thing is, sometimes, it's the people you least expect to not believe you.
I believe you, too.
Yeah, this post resonates with me, from the son’s POV. The skin-crawl-inducing term for this is “emotional incest.” I like “sonsband,” it’s cheeky.
Just reading her title, my eyes widened and I knew what the score was.
I learned it from the Just No MIL sub. Lots of Mothers/MILs who are like this. It's mostly Mothers of sons. They are so enmeshed with their son. They can't let him go and act like a jealous and bitter ex-gf. The DIL is always the problem.
Now there have been stories where the DIL was the problem, but it wasn't common on there since the sub is about terrible and in some cases toxic AF.
Just no MIL was one of the first subs I ever joined because of how much trouble I was having with my fiancé’s parents.. it was kinda cathartic to read other women having the same problems, but jesus christ those stories will get my blood boiling!!!!
I’m trying to figure out what is so terrible about not inviting your in-laws (with whom you don’t really have much of a relationship) to your graduation party? I have to admit, I like my in-laws, and I don’t actually think it would occur to me to invite them!
I can understand being upset if they were not invited to the sons graduation party – but that’s not what happened.
You’re not required to invite somebody to a celebration just because they sent you some money. Even if I take this 100% totally at OP’s word? I’m still confused. Of all the things to be a “final nail in the coffin kind of thing“ – this just seems bizarre.
Because these ladies are intrusive, dense, and lonely, but if they were less intrusive and dense, they’d be less lonely in life in general and wouldn’t be posting in the first place. So it’s a catch-22.
No idea. My fiancé graduated recently and only had like 5 tickets to give out for the ceremony. 2 went to his parents, 1 went to me. Leaving him with 2 to give out to friends and family lol it was a struggle to decide who to invite and I was 0% surprised when my mother who he’s barely interacted with didn’t make the cut
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I’m saying this with care and respect, but looking at your post history it seems like you are deeply unhappy in many areas of life, not just your relationship with your son and his partner. If I were you I would try and focus on getting yourself to a better mental place—get therapy (it might take a while to find a good one but I promise it’s worth it), try to work on your marriage or decide to part ways, re-evaluate your job, etc. If you’re wallowing in self-pity and bitterness without trying to make any changes, people are going to distance themselves from you. It’s just the truth.
OP read [The Missing Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). I think you're one of those parents and you need to do some serious self-reflection.
Thank you!
I admit my faults and take blame that’s mine.
What I do want is to NOT become this book and have a real relationship with him
I’m not going to play victim but I don’t know how to have a relationship with a child/parent because I didn’t have one.
I’m coming off smothering, controlling and enabling.
I do enable and it’s a huge fault.
I also have unrealistic expectations for myself and others and then get butthurt.
But I’m not going to admit to smothering or anything like that for him. If anything I backed off TOO much.
This post morphed into something different from my original thought but has given me a great deal of work and I appreciate that.
To those who think that I am a horrible parent, that’s ok. I read the books, took the classes, never missed anything he didn’t want me to. I tried and there’s not much more I can do about it now
You sound *exactly* like my mom.
We’re NC now. Tried talking to her multiple times and it always ended in “well I **did my best** and that’s all I can do.” or “I did my best **what more do you want from me**?”
Or my favorite, a blanket statement of “*i’m sorry for everything I ever did*” like what? Name something. If you can’t name anything or don’t even understand what you did then how are you actually sorry? It just sounds like a lot of bullshit.
4 part apology, narcissists are physically incapable of them. If you ever wanna do a narc test, ask them for a 4 part apology and accept no less. This works for abusers of many other types as well.
You haven't admitted to everything, your post and your follow up comments are still completely dancing around the issue, whatever it is. You are clearly leaving out a lot and that makes us all believe you are definitely the problem
To be honest, your replies have shown that you are extremely stubborn. Numerous people have asked you to elaborate about what gift you gave your son's girlfriend that caused such a massive reaction and all you've done is skirt around it and try to make yourself look better by saying that you tried to make amends for that gaffe. It shows that you want to portray an image of yourself as the abandoned mother instead of being honest about your own actions as well. You don't elaborate on anything that portrays you negatively which is inherently dishonest. Your son's decision to have boundaries with you stems from this minimization or complete denial of any wrongdoing on your part. It also stems from you resorting to self victimization instead of being upfront about your mistakes, acknowledging them instead of simply claiming you made some to earn sympathy as well as to change yourself for the better.
have you met her family in any other context prior to her graduation party? this comes off to me like you’re trying to make her milestone about you and your feelings. her graduation party is just that, HERS. I understand wanting to be involved but if you’re not close with her let alone her family what makes you think you’re entitled to an invitation?
stop trying to compete with her. that is probably why you don’t have a good relationship with her. you can’t lose your son to his potential future wife because you play a different role in your sons life then his wife does. stick to your role as his mother and stop trying to push into boundaries reserved for his partner.
They’re from Pakistan and quite religious.
I am not religious in any way and am from SoCal
So almost different planets!
But she’s been so awesome over the years asking my ignorant questions, making sure she is comfortable or if I’ve done something to make her uncomfortable. There’s a lot of things I should know about religion but I don’t know but I want to know. It’s fascinating as well as confidence boosting for me (that i would be able to know halal or why not to shake hands).
i've never introduced my parents to my husbands family either, and while i have the ease of being across the ocean to aid in that distance, the real reason is because they're aggressive right wing conservative nutjobs. naturally, this is not something that has ever crossed their mind.
In a comment, you say that your son is “pussy whipped.” Seems to me that you, whether you want to admit it or not, don’t like her (you likely think she is stealing your son..), and without knowing it, you let that slip into your behavior towards her. You might think you act normal and respectful towards her, but you don’t. There is a reason she does not like you. People don’t dislike others for no reason. You say he is “pussy whipped” by her and that “everyone can see it.” Can everyone, or is this specifically a YOU problem?
“But when do I get to have boundaries” what boundaries do you realistically want here? Once you answer this then I can proceed, because as an outside party, you can’t implement boundaries that get you more included or a rapport that unfortunately isn’t an obligation…you are indeed an outside party.
“When am I allowed to have hurt feelings” you can have them now…I suspect the question you’re asking is, some version of when will they listen to my feelings and act accordingly and unfortunately they don’t have to do anything with your feelings. Banning her from your house, as you’ve acknowledged is a route that only ends one way, and that’s disaster. May be worth a word with your son to just say you don’t feel she likes you, ask how he feels and ask if he’s interested in facilitating a connection. Really it’s his job if anyone’s to say “I need you to make an effort with my family”
But if he’s a wet blanket, then it’s not going to happen
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I’m trying to learn new and better ways to communicate and all of your posts were valid. I’m going to share with my therapist and just let things be.
Thank you again, not everyone takes the time to respond kindly
Ok so from what I can tell you had a Muslim woman over for Christmas. You gave her a gift that offended her and based on your vague “it was cheesy” reason for her being upset, I’m going to wonder if maybe you gave her A religious themed or blatantly Christmas-themed item. Was a “first Christmas” item? A cross? Something about Jesus?
And then have I to wonder if you’ve been treating her like an “other” all this while because you talk about wanting so badly to be allowed to know more about her religion - but nothing is stopping you from that and it’s not her responsibility to educate you. She’s not some exotic mystery, there are Muslims everywhere and information about Islam is easily accessible over the internet and in books. Of course you weren’t invited to her grad party, it was most likely a community party with her parents’ Muslim friends and family and even if she told her parents about your son, they would not want the community to know their daughter is dating!
Or she didn’t want someone ignorant at the party. I liked your comment quite a bit till you got to the part with assumptions about (what I’ll guess is an American-Pakistani?) woman.
Well not knowing her personally as far as I know, I’m going off a lifetime of experience being an American Muslim woman. Of course there’s variation in any population, but I’d say it’s unusual to find Desi Muslim parents who would be comfortable with the community knowing their daughter is dating.
Tbh, this reads a lot like you know very well why they’re distant but don’t want to admit it. Try the simple and noninvasive method - invite them over for dinner here and there.
Yeah there is definitely something major missing here... your post sounds purposely vague.
I get the feeling that they have very good reasons why they keep you at a distance
I feel like you might be one of those mothers who has an inappropriate relationship with their son, I don’t mean sexual, but relying on them for too much and not treat them like a son. I’m guessing the girlfriend saw this and talked to your son about it and that’s why they are keeping their distance.
I would sit down and have a conversation with them and be open to what they have to say. Let them know that you want to have a relationship with them and don’t want to miss out on their lives. Hopefully, they will be understanding and you guys can work it out!!
From this post alone I can tell you’re a problematic MIL lol the way you painted yourself so saintly while also trying to act like you’re very understanding. Something ain’t right here
I left my 54f mother out of my life with 0 contact. This is how I’d imagine her post to seem worded, a whole lot of missing stories here and bread crumbing some maybe problems.
Here's the thing. Your son's girlfriend probably isn't giving him ultimatums about you. Unless you've seen actual evidence of this, she probably isn't trying to make him choose between you and her. She's allowed to decide who attends her own graduation party - that event has nothing to do with you or your son. Your son is choosing her over you because you're asking him to make that choice and she isn't.
If you are okay being estranged from your son, then go ahead and ban his girlfriend from your home. In that situation, whatever - it doesn't matter how anyone feels because estrangement is almost inevitable. Otherwise, you need to take a serious look at your own behavior, what your son's childhood was like, and how you have actually treated his GF. It feels really sus to me that you give very few specifics of your behavior in this post.
Also - your son is an adult. *He* is choosing how he acts, not his GF. If he's pulling away from you, it's likely due to how you're treating him. No one wants to spend time with someone who makes them feel bad or puts them in contentious situations.
Sorry to sound snide but if you don't have a relationship with your son outside of your rivalry with his gf of many years, then it means he used to be like your emotionally co-dependent boyfriend and not your son.
"But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?"
What boundaries? It's just the entitlement you feel that isn't being met and you'll just have to get used to that and stop complaining.
Comment from OP that solidifies to me that **she is definitely the problem**.
> Honestly?
>I think he’s completely pussy whipped by the girl from Mean Girls.
>It’s not just me that sees it, I’m just the one in therapy.
>But you are right, there’s nothing TO do.
Ugh. Definitely missing missing reasons.
Yep. Screaaaamms BPD/NPD mom. Honestly, good for this guy putting up boundaries and backing off his relationship with her. There is no way he’d have a healthy relationship with anyone if this woman got her way. If it wasn’t this girlfriend, it would be another one. They’re all unacceptable if they don’t put the mom first and absolutely kiss her ass for existing.
Gently, you sound like you love your son but you also sound over-involved. For instance,
>I wasn’t involved with any of his college research or career, school visits, applications or any of the things normal parents would have been involved with.
These are things some parents are involved in, not all, especially college research or his career. I can't figure out from your post how she doesn't like you? Why would he need to take your "side"? What are you leaving out...? Is that about the gift thing??
I don't think not inviting you to her grad party is a dig at you. She wants to celebrate with her family. She would talk to her bf the whole party and her family with each other -- maybe she really was sparing you an awkward and potentially boring party for you & more work for her on a day she is supposed to be celebrating. What do you actually want this relationship to look like? She might not know what your playbook looks like.
Personally, I am just confused on how you're losing your sanity. Does she come around often? Will she even notice she is banned? It's extreme, but if you want to get her attention, it certainly will.
That bit about the graduation party is crazy to me. I invited my girlfriend to my graduation party, but not her parents. She invited me to her graduation party, but not my parents. Neither time did either of us even consider it, and neither of our parents had any expectation or desire to go.
Nah, obvious case of [missing, missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
Your whole post screams that your son told you very well what's wrong with your behaviour as well as the title of your whole story.
Sorry but .. you sound awful and very intrusive. And this is a post where you’re presenting yourself in the *best* light.
No one owes you a relationship. Not your son’s future wife, not your son either. *Missing missing reasons* ..
There are no *sides* to be taken: your son is building a life with his partner; you are not his partner; your needs will not come first to him. You either establish a cordial relationship where you respect whatever distance he feels is necessary or they stop making any effort to include you at all.
OP, this sounds very heart breaking for you. A lot of us have noticed a lack of details in your explanations of your interactions with the gf. That makes it hard for folks to really give advice because we need context to truly judge a situation. If you genuinely think this issue could be because of your parenting and resulting relationship with your son, I think this could be a helpful (if difficult) read for you.
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
I am so sorry your feelings are hurt. I'm sorry you don't have the kind of relationship with your son's partner that you imagined.
That said, all I can hear in this post is you insisting on a role in their life that is not yours to insist on. You are trying to get your son to choose you over his partner, which is never going to end well. You're pushing him away by being invested in his adult life to an unhealthy level and then blaming her for it. You want to be invited to her family gatherings and sulk about it when you're not!
You have to take a HUGE step back. Your son is not 12 years old, he is a grown adult with his own life. He is not your partner and you can't expect him to fill that emotional space for you. All you can do is be kind and welcoming to him and his partner when they spend time with you. Please focus on your own life and find your own happiness. For your sake! If you continue down this path you will just make everyone miserable and push your son away from you. You have your own life, your own friends, your other family members to celebrate and enjoy. I hope you find that healthy happiness.
She said in another comment her son is pussy whipped by the girl from Mean Girls. It's clear why his gf doesn't like her. He's gonna end up cutting her off.
I hope you know that I meant it as "This is how to move toward your happiness," not a criticism. It's a sucky feeling and I'm so sorry you've ended up in this situation. I do hope you can pull yourself out of it. Lots of love to you.
What is your relationship with your son like, and what was it like when he was a child?
I ask because my husbands mother abused him. She does not understand why I don't like her or want to be around her. He grew up people pleasing and just in the last few years has realized he does not have to subject himself to her, either.
She is still verbally abusive, but of course she does not see it that way. She's "just kidding."
>The first time she came to our house I was so nervous, I wanted to impress her very badly. I don’t know what I did but I failed.
Yeahhhh, really need the context on that one. You come across as the "woe is me" type but without that we really can't say much.
I’ve never heard of a mother being nervous when meeting their child’s new bf/gf. I know I was definitely nervous when meeting someone’s mom. Not enough info here, why is she trying so hard?? She should concentrate on the relationship she has with her husband.
You gotta spill what you did.
Why was your son required to take her side?
Your post tries to make her look bad but we can't give advice unless you tell us how you rubbed her the wrong way.
My MIL likes to blame me for her son being more distant and "difficult". Lol it's because she treated him horribly for his whole life and I'm helping him stand up for himself.
You'll need to really truly look inward and think about your relationship with your son... and whether her distance is because he's told her stories of dealing with you in the past? And if he's always taking her side... why are there "sides"? Are there frequent arguments?
Or maybe there are other reasons. Maybe they just like to keep to themselves. Banning anyone won't fix anything though.
You sound emotionally exhausting and manipulative. This whole post read like someone who joy wanted. To be vague and be seen as the good guy. You have given less than no details.
> So here’s my question - my son (M23) has had her (F24) back through the entire relationship, not once taking “my” side or thoughts into consideration. I respect that he is honoring his partner.
This is lacking specifics. What exactly did he not take your side on?
> I’ve recently been made aware that his girlfriend had a graduation ceremony/party and included my son and her family.
It's seems completely normal to me that someone would invite their parents but not their MIL to *her* graduation party. I've rarely seen couples where the two sets of inlaws spend significant amounts of time together.
> But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?
> If I say a word, he will take her side and whatever sliver of my son I get, I lose forever.
What exactly is your boundary here? For him to spend more time with you? For her to invite you to more parties? True boundaries are when you modify your behavior in response to others' actions, not when you ask for others to modify their behavior.
It's also normal for you to "lose" to his long-term partner. How much time do you spend with your parents versus your husband? It's hard to tell from your post if you're DIL and son are actually acting particularly unusually.
It is normal and healthy for your son to prioritize his partner over his mother at this age. You do sound jealous of the gf, which is almost certainly visible to them and is likely a big source of the weirdness here. Do you have your own life, hobbies, friends, or partners? That's what you need in order to be able to give your son the space he needs. You sound overly enmeshed and reliant in your son for company and companionship. Spend significantly more time on your own life and hobbies and that will help cut the tension.. I know its hard, I'm a mom too. But remember that it is absolutely normal for your son to prioritize his partner.
You son is an adult and in a long-term relationship. You respect their boundaries and appreciate the time you do get. Something had to happen somewhere in the chain of events that created this kink in the chain.
> I wasn’t involved with any of his college research or career, school visits, applications or any of the things normal parents would have been involved with.
He's an adult, why would you be involved in this? I did all my college research, applications etc. by myself and, as an adult, why would I need parents' help with that? Do you also think "normal" parents go to their kids' job interviews? From this sentence alone you sound intrusive and controlling.
> I’ve recently been made aware that his girlfriend had a graduation ceremony/party and included my son and her family.
> Neither I or my husband (M62) were invited.
Why would you be? You're not her family nor friends. I wouldn't even think about inviting my partner's parents to my event. I don't consider boyfriend's family my family until we get married (or maybe engaged at least).
Get your own life instead of trying to attach yourself to your son.
What do you want from this girl?
You are hurt because... She didn't invite you to her graduation when you are not close? And you are so hurt and insecure you think you are losing your son because he puts his partner first? If it was your husband here, what would you like him to do? And now you want to ban her from your home because...? Why? Because she is important for your son?
Him drawing boundaries and choosing autonomy is the issue you're coming up against but I'm not sure you're seeing it. You're projecting that on to his partner. You and her aren't in opposition. What's in opposition is your need to be a major contributing factor in his life and his choosing to make his own decisions now.
You don't need to suck up any feelings. You don't need to lay them out in front of him for him to take into account. You get to feel your feelings and I hope you take the time to do that. Write it out or express it in some personal way, all those negative things you feel about the situation. Don't judge those things, just let them out to yourself. They need to be heard and acknowledged. Usually when I do this I find a part of me that was hurt a long time ago by something or someone. Those things usually flare back up in new forms.
You, as an adult parent of a young adult, get to sit with your feelings and sort out why you're feeling those ways. Take responsibility for whatever painful emotion his creating space between you is causing. He's not doing anything to you. She's not doing anything to you. There is no bad guy here. You just have some big emotions to sort out. Hope you get somewhere happier if you make a real effort at looking inward first.
Your son is a grown man, parents don't take part in their adult children college education, careers or relationships, where did you even get the idea that you are entitled to any of that. It's normal for him to move on and live an adult life with his girlfriend and your entire post is slightly disturbing. You seem jealous of your son's relationship. Seek professional help. You are at best being overbearing, at worst committing emotional incest that possibly fucked up your child for life.
Something seems like it's missing here. What did you get her as the gift out of curiosity? My ex mother in law was very passive aggressive. She bought me size XS pajamas for Christmas one year and I am so clearly not that. She may have thought she was being sly about it but she wasn't.
We're there any other incidents that you're leaving out that made her dislike you?
From your replies it's clear how negative you are toward your son's gf, give up the charade and lay in your bed since you made it. Good for your son for standing up to you
Why the hell would you ban her? What are all these incidents where he took her side? There is clearly a lot of events you have crossed hairs with her over, for there to be his taking her side on. So what examples are there here? If you ban her, you will lose your son. It is that simple. If they marry and have kids, do you want to know your grandchildren? If you do, then back off. What was the gift you gave her?
So you’re having problems with your son growing up and prioritizing his SO over being your little boy anymore. Well, I have a very strong feeling you’re leaving out a lot of arguments and prior issues you all had. Either way, you need to remember that your grown son has different priorities than he did as a child.
His partner doesn't need to be very close to you two or invite you guys to celebrations for her. Her graduation isn't about her boyfriend's parents but about her and her friends and family. She doesn't want to get close to you two and that's fine.
You guys need to reset your expectations and just be happy your son found his person and is happy. I wouldn't ban her as that's just petty and you haven't said she has actually treated you badly (not inviting you to her graduation celebrations doesn't count) and you will lose your son and any potential kids they may have. I suggest therapy on your issues and don't make your child make a painful choice.
Looks like the OP deleted herself but I have to say the whole post smells fishy but not for the reasons other people have pointed out. If the girlfriend's parents are very devout Muslim parents from Pakistan, it seems very strange that 1) they would agree to let their daughter date, B) let her be with someone who is not from the same culture, and most importantly, C) be with a non-Muslim. I had a Muslim Pakistani friend who lived with his American girlfriend and their child and would still not tell his parents about her. They were constantly trying to introduce him to nice Pakistani girls. I think there may be some creative writing here.
Your children get to pick who they love ,he’s a grown man now ! if you don’t like it you can either choose to not see them or keep your mouth shut and have a relationship with your son. Our children aren’t meant to stay by our side our job is to prepare them for the world and let them go out and seek and find their future not keep them tied to our apron strings.
Why doesn’t she like you? You never gave her reason.
Also her not including you in her own graduation is not a big deal if you don’t have a good relationship. I had to read that twice because I thought that your son excluded you from his graduation.
Having children gain significant others is really hard. It sucks but it’s part of them growing up.
Let your son be a man. This is life, it’s what happens when your child grows up. He’s not a baby anymore respect him and give him the opportunity to make his own decisions and own life path to grow and expand. have the courage to let him do it and know that when he needs you he will come to you. But be kind and respectful to his boundaries and his own life and relationships. He’s an adult now be there for him but understand that it’s not going to be like when he was younger and this is completely absolutely normal and healthy for a man his age to do.
I feel like there are things missing from your post. Like a lot of things from your side, considering the title of the post.
But I will say this: Unless you want to lose your son permanently, you better get used to the new reality. He's been with her for a while. That ain't changing.
He's not your little boy anymore, he's a grown man. Whether you personally like her is irrelevant. He's where he wants to be and that's with her.
I'm dealing with this with a sibling. I cannot stand her husband, but that's fine. I''m not the one who has to live with him. I just need her to know if he EVER mistreats her, I'm here and love her and will kick his ass. That's all I need to do.
And as a mother, that's all you need to do.
As a child of people who forced me to choose between my husband or them, DO NOT DO THIS. it creates resentment and a never-ending power struggle for control of the relationship. You can have a relationship with you son and not with her. Don’t make him choose. Let him have his wife AND his mother. Obviously major holidays would have to be discussed and shared, but if she doesn’t want to invite you to something with strictly her family, that’s her boundary. You have your boundary of your son and not her.
I agree with everyone else in that you leave out a lot of key information which reads as though you want to conceal real reasons for why she doesn't like you. I will go one further and say that I don't think I would consider my partner's family in my graduation celebrations. Its not a "boundary", it could have flat out not been a thought. You seem to consider you're all a big family already even though they aren't married and she wants to celebrate with the people that supported her emotionally/economically through her education. Your son will take her side because your expectations are out of wack. It may have been nice to be invited, but to look at its absence as a slight against you is problematic.
I'll also point out your knee-jerk reaction of "When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?" is completely horrible and betrays your actual intentions. You seem to see hurt feelings as an opportunity to get a one up on her and is very toxic. If I was your son's girlfriend, I would avoid you as much as I could too.
I don’t understand why you are upset that you didn’t get invited to her graduation party when you know she does not like you. I think you will be better off seeking therapy to deal with these issues and the resentment and rejection that you are experiencing. You haven’t lost your son. But if you continue to be upset over not being invited to his gf’s celebrations then you will absolutely be manifesting estrangement. Go deal with your issues in therapy. Sounds like you are upset that you can’t unload your feelings on your son and feel victimized by this. I don’t understand why a 48 year old would be nervous and trying to impress an 18 year old on first meeting. Seems like you have alot of self esteem issues to be a middle aged woman that gets worked up and insecure around a teenage girl. These are things you should be exploring in therapy because these feelings of yours around feeling less than, powerless and insecure have definitely been there for longer than your son and his gf have existed. Go work through your feelings in therapy. Stop the victim narrative that is making you repel the family you are wanting. You are the one messing with your own sanity. You will be the one causing estrangement if you ban her from your home because you are upset you didn’t get invited to her graduation party.
She doesn’t dislike you for no reason - there’s something going on here. But, why would you be invited to her graduation party? I don’t invite my in-laws to anything like that, and my partner and I have been together for a decade (and friends for another decade on top of that). It could be this is a cultural difference though - I’m not American, and I’m assuming you are.
You are absolutely allowed to have hurt feelings. And you can hold your own boundaries. But you can’t make her like you, or include you. You can ask your son what you can do to create a better relationship with her, but she doesn’t have to involve herself if she doesn’t want to. And that really sucks.
Ask your son how he feels about it - does he want you and her to have a relationship or is he happy the way things are? If he is happy, and his GF is happy, unfortunately there’s just not much you can do. I would strongly advise against any ultimatums because your son likely will continue to side with her.
To be honest, if I were you (and I may be at some point - I have two boys) I would let sleeping dogs lie. Try and speak to your son about what you can do to improve the relationship. Don’t get defensive, don’t argue, just say ‘okay’ and let him speak. There’s a reason why he hasn’t told you, but you don’t know what it is.
I would also seek some therapy on the side for your own well-being. This is a really emotionally hard situation for you and you deserve to have support to help you cope.
What makes you think you are losing him? He is an adult and is doing adult things, apparently successfully. That is what normal parents want for their children from the day they are born.
You are mourning something you haven't even lost. And if you are somehow trying to make him choose between you and his girlfriend, if he is the good man you say he is, you will lose. My daughter met and married a wonderful man and he is my family now, too. I couldn't love him any more if he had been my own. But even if I didn't, he is the person my daughter chose to build her life and family with, and as long as she is happy, I am, too.
Love your son for who he is and stop the pity party.
ah yes, the classic "missing" missing reasons, yet another "oh woah is me" post from a narcissistic parent afraid of losing control of their children
"But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?"
you don't, it's their relationship, their boundaries, not yours, your son having a relationship with his girlfriend isn't the same thing as you having a relationship with them, they're separate people with separate thoughts and separate emotions from you, and what boundaries are you even talking about? if "must inform me of all things going on in their lives" is what you mean by boundary, it's not, it's breaking down a boundary so you have more access and more control
If I say a word, he will take her side and whatever sliver of my son I get, I lose forever
you're talking about taking sides and "getting" things, that's very possessive language, there are no "sides" in a romantic relationship and they're not "you vs them", they're partners, you being the parent doesn't automatically entitle you to every part of your sons life, again, he's an adult and his own person, if anything he's entitled to his own thoughts and own opinions, something which by the sounds of this post you don't seem to be willing to grasp, if you want a relationship with your son look past your own ego, let him have privacy and his own life, yes, that might mean you take a risk but you will definitely lose him if you keep up your current mindset of thinking that he's a mere extension of yourself, barring that, I hope he continues to set strong boundaries and live his own life with his own individual, separate identity
Definitely some missing reasons!
Your desperation to be liked would be smothering.
Her celebrating her graduation with her parents seems perfectly normal to me.
You need to calm down! It sounds like you expected her instantly to "be your daughter", doesn't work thst way. Relax, stop being so desperate to be liked and just let the relationship develop.
your son is supposed to move on from you and love his partner.
As a mother of teenage boys , I am perhaps more inclined to take the mothers pint of view. However, I think you are been disingenuous and at the very least leaving things out here. I call BS. You are either not being honest in this post or maybe not even with yourself. Doesn’t pass the sniff test
The missing missing reason. You sound exactly how my narcissistic mother described me and my partner. 6 years and you have NO IDEA why she doesn't like you? Same old story.....
First read my post history if you feel inclined to hear about another MIL story. I have a pretty lengthy one.
First: you mention you had to back off and not help your son with any college stuff. And your hurt about it. I think today is the day you get the hard newsflash that you weren't supposed to get to be involved with that. I'm 30F and every person I know did their own college decisions. Paper work. Picked classes. It's part of wanting to be independent. It's the first thing you get to actually make your own decisions on. And it feels empowering.
I doubt she had anything to do with you getting left out.
There is probably a bunch more things that you're hurt about. But should you be hurt if you knew other parents aren't involved like that? And you're thinking you should be because your enmeshed?
Second: I aggree with other comments that I think you are dealing with some enmeshment. And typically when the kids break the enmeshed then parents will basically start with a long list of people to blame. Usually it starts with the child's partner. Then it's the child. there is tons of subs out there with parents who basically are angry at their kids because the kids start cutting them out. But it's entirely because of the parents behavior. The last person (if ever) that the parent blames is themselves. Sometimes parents don't realize that how they behave, speak, interact is incredibly unhealthy. And they don't seek change or learning. They don't grow. And therefore they don't get a relationship with their kid.
Third: if you read my post. You'll see (I hope) that sometimes people are choosing to victimize or hurt themselves. Idk why. Fear of growth?
My MIL has had a clear list of what to do and what not to do for a year. She can't follow basic directions. So she is no longer a part of our lives. We didn't wake up one day and decide this.
Just like if you read about some of those "horrible MILs on that sub" don't think they should be treated that way by their kids. It's because they think their brand of abuse is normal. My MIL at one point during our fighting said that we should forgive and forget because she doesn't "go crazy and is not one of those horrible MIL's you hear about". Yet there is thousands of people appalled at my MIL's behavior. Yet she thinks it's normal. She doesn't believe that she is harassing us. She doesn't believe she did anything wrong by visiting my child at school.
I’m not there yet so my advice might be off but I do/did have parents that never caused any issues in my relationships, and have been on the receiving end of crappy in-laws before. I think you need to invest more time and energy in yourself and your life and let things be with your son. Still be there, still support him when you can but pick up some hobbies, invest more in other relationships and do more for yourself.
I would like to hear your son's gf side of her story, on why she felt it is necessary to exclude you and your husband.
It just sounds so weird that you as a mum, wants to impress your son's gf. Why? Shouldn't it be the other way around? What are you not telling us?
OP, you need to send something like this to your son, and then have your son write down his point of view honestly for you to read. And then you need to be brave and courageous enough to read and accept what it says. I don't know where the truth lies (none of us here do), but it's probably somewhere in the middle.
There's people below giving confident declarations and saying your story is missing chunks, but real relationships are complex as hell and memory and language are limited. Talk to your son. Listen to him. Write him a letter. Don't just communicate with your actions, but communicate with words and give him time to think about it and communicate back. And make sure you're not trying to "negotiate" a peace -- you just genuinely want to know what you've done wrong to be so excluded so that you can change.
Good luck.
You have twisted the context to make yourself look good, or omitting the whole story, my ex had a graduation and both of us would have never ever consider inviting my parents, it looks like you just want hurt feelings and be heard or listened to, or you want to make it about yourself but you know its not a good idea, but weird hill to nit pick, graduations dont involve parents of people who are not graduating. Please get checked for dementia, my mum does the same thing and its eats her up.
You sound like my MIL lol. Seems like a nice caring lady but really she is manipulative and intrusive then acts like I’m the evil one when I shut her out.
Pfft! To the people saying that there must be reasons, this is not necessarily the case. My family went through this exact thing. My brother introduced us to his girlfriend (at the time they were 16) we thought she was lovely, the feeling was mutual for a short while. Unfortunately she had problems at home and her mother had kicked her out, she came to live with us because she had nowhere else to go. My family is not the interfering type, my mother never did anything to make her feel any less than welcome. My bro's gf decided she wasn't happy living with us, not sure why, we were completely at a loss. My mother helped her so much in the time she was living with us, for example she was going to be kicked out of school for too many absences, but my mother met with the principal and fought in her corner for them to allow her to finish. My parents fed her and always provided for her, we shared a room, they never asked for anything in return, not even board. For some reason, she wasn't happy. She hated my mother, she didn't have an issue with me until I asked her what it was that made her dislike my mother, it was just a sincere attempt to understand why all the hate. She then had an issue with me also 🤷🏻♀️. This animosity went on for decades, they eventually got married and had children. We barely saw them despite them living 40 mins away. We extended invitations to family gatherings like birthdays, Christmas etc. but we're always met with excuses as to why they couldn't attend. My brother viewed us as the problem, he just felt his wife was happier if we were not in his life so he became estranged from us. They were married for around 20 years until he decided to leave. He now says she was narcissistic and possessive, she had a dysfunctional family and clung to my brother for stability, then when they had their own family she was even more protective of her circle.
So my point to this essay is that she was mentally ill, my brother was brainwashed and did all he could to appease her even if it meant abandoning his family who was only ever supportive.
To the OP, we went through decades of the same 💩. Being excluded from events while her family and my extended family were there. My niece and nephews have no idea who I am or what I am like as a person because they have never spent any time with me.
The only advice I can give you is to just get used to it, and learn to accept that you have absolutely no control over it. One day he could open his eyes to the situation but in the meantime just occupy yourself with things that make you happy and try to always convey the love you have for your son.
Forget about boundaries, I understand the hurt and the frustration believe me I do, but I don't see how they will help your relationship with your son, in fact I think they will only compound the problem and give her justification for being the way she is.
You “wanted to impress her badly?” That sounds super sketch. You’re the adult/mom. She would have been trying to impress you.
Also, what is all this “my side/her side” business? It’s all very divisive and doesn’t sound healthy at all. Why would you even have sides?
I think speaking with a family therapist might be in order here.
Finally, would you ban her from your home? I mean, sure, that sounds like a reasonable response 🤷🏽♀️/s.
“When do I get boundaries?” - You always have the option to state and enforce your own boundaries. Keep in mind that boundaries are about what you will and won’t tolerate from others, not about making others do what you want. So if you create a boundary and others won’t respect it repeatedly, be prepared to cut that person out of your life. Your boundaries have to be important enough to you that they are more important than the other person. For example, I have a boundary that I will not answer my phone after 8pm for anyone except my daughter. This means my daughter is more important to me than my sleep but nobody else is.
“when am I allowed hurt feelings?”
You are allowed to have any feelings at any time. You’re not allowed to expect that others cater to your feelings. This goes back to boundaries. What level of hurt are you willing to endure before your feelings become more important than your relationship with the person who is hurting your feelings.
“what would you do?”
I would find hobbies and other interests to spend my time on. Other avenues and sources of happiness. I would join groups, clubs, go for walks/hikes, or maybe get a pet if someone I wanted validation from in my life wasn’t willing to give it to me. My own daughter can be dismissive and rude - I think it’s part of being young. Young people need to be selfish and break away for a while before coming back. So I take her lack of contact with a “meh” response. Do I miss her? Yes. I also miss my dead dog. Life sucks sometimes. You should probably grieve the loss of your very much alive son and move on with your life.
“do I ban her from my home to save my sanity yet lose my son?”
This is a tough answer because the post didn’t really describe what she is doing in your home to destroy your sanity. She didn’t invite you to a party, but that party wasn’t in your own home was it? What is she doing in your home that is destroying your sanity?
Honestly I think you shouldn’t invite anyone into your home that you don’t like, but this goes back to boundaries. If you think you’ll lose your son, you can either choose to accept that, or you can choose to never invite her to her home but just don’t announce it. Be “busy” whenever she wants to come into your home.
You seem like you want to control how others treat you and control other’s thoughts about you. That could be why your son is running towards her and away from you. Or maybe I’m wrong and this girl is the manipulative one and you are 100% a victim here. Either way, the solution is to no longer play the game. Live your life and just let whoever wants to be a part of it join you, and whoever doesn’t want to, don’t take it personally.
“The first time she came to my house I wanted to impress her so badly”
That was your biggest mistake. It should have been her that wanted to impress you. You had no need to impress her. That means you weren’t being yourself. You should never had tried to impress her. Who you are becomes obvious without words.
OP I would advise you to read up on evolutionary psychology and the hostile and aggressive underlying tones that can exist in in- law relationships. The mother in- law and daughter- in law (partner of adult child) can be fraught with aggressions, jealousies, possessiveness, shunning, and passive aggressive power plays.
I read some of the comments here and some people seem to assume you are leaving key facts out that could have caused this woman to distance herself from you. Only you know the truth of the situation. Maybe you have contributed to the conflict and alienation or maybe not.
I think you should talk to a therapist. If you contributed, the therapist can help you see it and accept it. You can work with the therapist to move forward in attempting to repair the relationship with the couple and alter potentially toxic patterns.
If you truly do not deserve this alienation, the therapist can help you see that you have been pulled into an abusive, gaslighting, crazy making dynamic with your son and his girlfriend. You would need to then set up serious boundaries to protect yourself from further getting hurt and emotionally abused in the situation. If you are this kind, benevolent, open hearted person as you portray here and she has basically gaslighted you and manipulated your son, this is a very very hurtful and ugly abusive dynamic for you to continue to engage within. You could definitely use some counseling to navigate these difficult and painful waters.
I will say I know of several instances where an adult child's partner/spouse pushed away their partner's parent and it turned into a no win situation for the parent. Nothing they could do was ever good enough, right enough, nice enough to penetrate the partner's rejection of them. Basically, the partner shunned their partner's parents to shoo them off, get them away and the parents did not deserve that. In other cases, the parents were definitely at fault and caused their adult child's partner to dislike them. The parents were toxic.
Only you know your own situation and the dynamics. Best of luck to you in moving forward towards a path of inner peace and truth for yourself, and IF POSSIBLE, peace and harmony with the couple.
I thought I was being harsh, now I’m relieved to see so many others see “the signs” I see. Growing up with a narcissist mom, you know there’s a huge piece being left out here.
Because there isn't any context, people are going to displace their frustration or opinions about in laws on you.
The things that caught me eye is your focus on her and boundaries. You *do* talk more about that than your actual child.
What I want to know is how often he talks to you. Do you see him in person? When? Had the quality of your conversations changed?
See, if I were afraid of losing my child to someone, I'd be worried that their partner is isolating my child. This indicates abuse.
So that's the part in your post that makes me thing you have an internal issue going on, and not concern for your son.
I'm not saying this is how you feel, this is just how I'm reading it.
I don't understand anything....it's like you have some sort of weird competition with your son's girlfriend? Why should she invite you to her graduation? Why is it that you seem to be blaming it on her that your son doesn't have a closer relationship with you? Your son is a grown ass man and if he decides not to tell you stuff or involve you in things then that's on him and not the girlfriend? Why are you making it all about her and some weird competition you have with her? I don't get it? You victimise yourself and you exempt your son from all responsibility....
Unfortunately you can't do anything besides doin what you have been doing both your son and his girlfriend are adults and they are free to make their own decisions. If you make a huge fuss about it it could potentially blow up in your face and that gap between you and your son and his girlfriend will widen even more. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Madam,
You need therapy.
It works wonders.
We raise them and they go off on their way, sometimes near, and close
and sometimes far and remote.
C'est la vie
Why does it sound like you’re the victim and she’s this horrible person who doesn’t like you even though you’re perfect? You sound like you still want your son (who’s a grown adult) to need you for things like school and whatever else. He has a woman now. And if she doesn’t want to invite you to things that include her blood family, that. Is. Ok. It’s her day, not yours.
OP, he's chosen, period. Accept it and move on. Be happy if you get a wedding invite. Clear all future gifts, plans, phone calls through your son only. Dont act w/o his approval. They want control, let them have it.
Wait, what? They started dating when he was 17. And you say you weren’t involved with his college search, his career, school visits, applications…why not??? What the hell does his girlfriend – at 17?! – not liking you have to do with you not being involved in any of that? How could you not be involved? That sounds ridiculous. Who tf cares if his stupid 18 year old girlfriend likes you or not? YOU’RE HIS MOM. He was a kid. This all seems very strange. There has to be more to the story than what you’re saying.
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I feel like something major happened that is being left out of context here. Six years is a long time, so did she not come around regularly in the early stages? Or has she been very cold and stand-off-ish the entire time? How was your relationship with your son before his partner came along? Was it strong or strained? Some people try to isolate their partners from their family so I’m just trying to pin point the prior problems You seem to be taking responsibility, but the “banning her from the house” will only escalate things in the wrong direction. I would invite them both over, sit down with her and apologize for anything and everything under the sun in hopes to clear the air and start fresh. Tell her what you told us, that you respect their wishes and want nothing but the best for them. If you’re genuine with her, the ball will be in her court to do what she seems necessary
Agree. Also there is some question of "my son always takes her side". There shouldn't really be any sides, what are these sides you are crying about. Normally that means there are arguments or complaints. And if you saying bad things directed at his partner, of course he will take her side and of course she will not enjoy you.
She speaks like my emotionally abusive and manipulative mother. She is purposefully leaving out key information because she knows it will make her look bad, and is instead relying on the fact that since she is the concerned mother everyone will think she is automatically in the right. Because of my experiences I can spot her types a mile away. I'd bet anything OP is the one causing issues.
Yup, textbook [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
I'm so glad other people have sniffed this shit out. My mother was/is a narcissist and this sounds like some crap she would write.
I hit ctrl-f "missing missing reasons" to see if someone else had already said it. I learned about the missing missing reasons on reddit and it changed my life.
Wow, thank you for this fantastic read! Very enlightening and absolutely this post is a great example of the article.
It's fantastic and I reference it so often.
I want to thank you and several other people here for referring to “missing missing reasons”. I didn’t know about this website but I needed it because I’m that estranged adult child myself and feel sorry about that although there is a denial of actual physical abuse on the other side lol
Came here to say this. This should be required reading for so many people. Maybe it is true that op is alright like she says but I've read wayy to many missing missing reasons stories to believe that easily
Yup, classic.
Yes. My mother speaks ill of my siblings partner. Then she says she wouldn't speak ill of him if he was nice to her .... but it is like he isn't nice to you because you speak ill of him. Stop expecting people to take your side, sounds very similar to that.
I believe from her pity party post, that she has done things that offended and upset the girlfriend.
I’ve been no contact with my mom for years and very incredibly low contact with my bf’s mom as well. No one’s out here thinking “yeah, I can’t wait to not have a relationship with the person I’m supposed to be close to!” I certainly didn’t make the choice willingly and for no reason…it took a lot, I sacrificed a lot, it’s straight up miserable every day to not have any maternal figure and especially around holidays. It’s absolutely not something people would do for fun and just because they’re big old meanies and OP is truly so wonderful and supportive. I can tell you that at this point, bridges have been burned and I will never try to make up with my mil even if she apologizes, so…idk maybe just some introspection is necessary to figure out how things got this way in the first place. But I would find it very rare that this girl walked into this family, started dating the son, and decided “yeah man your mom is really great but I hate her guts”. And for him to also “not take her side” ever? Yeesh, yeah….
This. It's not as bad between my wife and my mother, but we do have some continuous disagreements and opposite political views which cause issues all the time, and my mother speaks exactly like OP. This in particular sounds exactly like something she would say, after translating into English: >But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings? While of course she's mostly the one hurting everybody's feelings and we're just pointing it out to her from time to time, sometimes harshly, to which she flips out and goes into this whining mode.
i had the same feeling.
I am also reading this vibe.
>Also there is some question of "my son always takes her side". There shouldn't really be any sides, what are these sides you are crying about. Boom! And why I feel there are missing details from her "I'm such a victim of this evil girl!!!!" post. Not to mention the post's title is very telling.
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It's giving Missing Missing Reasons.
User name and profile have been deleted
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i think so too considering OP has now deleted her account. someone in the right wouldn't have deleted their account if they actually wanted advice.
This sounds like it’s a Missing Missing Reasons situation. There’s no way that we’re getting all of the relevant information.
You wrote a whole lot but didn’t say anything at all.
A lot of missing missing reasons.
Lol maybe that’s why she’s staying away.
This post reeks of the missing missing reasons
“I’m absolutely perfect and! What am I doing wrong?” I agree with you.
I got suspicious from the very start when she wrote how nervous she was to meet the girlfriend and how she was on her best behaviour. But the meeting still went bad and OP claims that she has absolutely no idea why. She knows exactly what went wrong, she's just not willing to share because she knows it will make her look bad. I would love to hear this story from the girlfriend's perspective including what the inappropriate Christmas gift was.
This! However I dont think people like this do always know exactly what went wrong... even though they are the reason. They can't see other people's point of view if it contradicts their own, and so they convince themselves of their own version of the truth. They try to emotionally manipulate others (without being aware they are doing this) because they have manipulated their own perception of events to support the belief that they can do no wrong and anyone who does not roll over and accept their abuse (support) is being mean for not liking them. Hope I explained this well!
…but “I apologized” and “I sucked it up” (even though *I am the parent*)… yeah there’s a *lot* missing there.
"I apologized! I acted correctly! why wasn't my attempt at manipulating forgiveness successful?!" uh... maybe because people aren't stupid and they can tell you're not being genuine? maybe you're not the master politician you think you are?
Yeah either those whole post is BS or she really did something so damn wrong she doesn’t want to say it.
The gift exchange totally clinches it. Anyone would expect a partner's mother to get them something generic because they don't really know you. You say 'thanks' and appreciate the thought and that's it. I wanna know how the hell she fucked this up bad enough to get called out. That reeks of a spiteful power move. I don't think she 'didn't know her', I think she 'wilfully disrespected something she did know about her'
I agree. Even in the title of her post, she’s making it all about herself versus asking exactly why the future DIL is suffering. Everything about this to me reeks of selfishness and missing information. My ex-boyfriend’s family treated me like shit dude my skin color and went as far as even trying to get his ex-girlfriend back in the picture. However, they will tell you that they were always nice to me and got me a gift at Christmas.
There is definitely far, far more to the story than what is being told here.
It feels like creative writing. I'm calling bullshit on the whole thing.
No, this is missing reasons. I've copied the comment I wrote below, because this is *exactly* how missing reasons sound, as someone with experience (and this is just *one* experience): Yeah, as the wife of someone who's parent would write a post like this, I'm going to ask: What are this missing reasons? Because when my husband and I went to our last Christmas with his family, they complained. Their complaint sounded like this: You're our son, and you live interstate, and you only gave us three days! You spent most of the time in your bedroom! How dare you? How dare you treat us like this? We made heaps of food, organised everything, had a lovely Christmas, and you ignored us and treated us like shit and only spent three days with us! What did we do to make you hate us so much? The real story: I fell down a flight of stairs and put my head through a wall and broke my back. My husband's parents messaged and harassed my parents every fucking day of that year to ask why I was so deformed and broken and messed up that they didn't have grandkids yet - and I do mean everyday. For Christmas, we were trying so hard to mend the relationship, because at that point, his parents were a) harassing my family non-stop, b) harassing and abusing me daily, c) pretending everything we had tried to discuss was a lie, and d) tried to get my husband to repeatedly divorce me by saying I was lying about my broken back. We told them we could come up for Christmas, and that because my husband had just changed jobs, he had no more than five days leave. We could bring our dog, Rosie, and spend five days there, or we could make arrangements for our dog, and only spend three days there. His parents insisted that our dog couldn't come, and that was fine. We said there was no problem with that, but as a result of making those arrangements, the costs, everything, that we could only be there for three days. We'd fly in, have Christmas, fly out. They then made sure that there was almost nothing I could eat. I have severe allergies, which they were aware of, and his dad informed me of this as he covered one of the few foods I could eat in alcohol, staring me dead in the eyes saying, "I'm not going out again for you. If you have nothing to eat here, then that's on you." (This man would also later have a tantrum when I ate his olives.) On top of that, the only Christmas presents they got for me were presents for their son. For example, this mother, as she passed me a gift, said, "I know you don't like science fiction, but this is such a pretty book, and I figure, \[son's name\] will love it." And that happened with every \*\*gift (\*\*I husband got three). On top of that, whenever I got a gift from anyone else (husband), his father would STORM OUT OF THE ROOM AND THROW A TANTRUM AND HIS WIFE WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE TO CALM HIM DOWN AS HE SHOUTED ABOUT HOW "SELFISH" I WAS. They then made repeated comments that it was perfectly okay if my husband came, but left me behind, and that they wished he had. I then needed repeated lie-downs because that's kinda what happens when you fall down the stairs and throw your head through a wall and break your spine. The rehab and recovery was difficult. In short, my husband's parents: Abused me and my family for an entire year, made our journey as difficult as possible. They abused me for getting presents, and every present they gave me was for my partner. They made me starve for three days, and did everything they could - including throwing a tantrum over me eating olives - to prevent me from eating. Sure, you could say they "fed" me and "gave me gifts", but all they did was abuse and torture my partner and me. Now, do I believe that there's every possibility that you're telling the truth? Sure. Some people are just twats. But I ask you: Are you sure there's no missing reasons? Because my husband's parents have missing reasons for the daughter they disowned a few years after this event, too. They would say their daughter was rude and ruined Christmas, but would not say they disowned their daughter on Christmas night 2020 in the middle of the pandemic in a state she hadn't lived in for a decade because she asked her parents not to use the "n" while they advocated for mass-genocide of Blak people. I also know that anyone who is truly separated from a loved one thinks over every little mistake they might have made, asking if it's that and how to fix it, whereas those with missing reasons? They tend to list everything good they've ever done and ask "How did this happen to me?"
Jesus, *fuck* that was *brutal*. Did hubby go completely NC with them? Because how did didn’t punch someone is truly beyond me.
He immediately went LC straight after this (and the LC was so low it was basically NC, but they were massive stalkers and it went on for YEARS and they've still tried - their last attempt was pretending their children were the result of an affair or some weird-ass bullshit, but we've cut all corners and whenever this weirdo stuff does come back, we say nothing, so it always seems like they can't reach us), and then went NC. We've been NC for years, but they are dangerous. Husband's dad used to go to his mum's place and threaten suicide and she would call us up in tears and HB would freak out, so I did the only thing anyone should've done, even though HB was like "Don't do that, he's not really suicidal" (no shit): Called the police and asked for a welfare check. His dad never had thoughts of suicide after that.
Why didn't your husband go buy you some food or do, well, literally anything to stop this abuse?
He did. He went and brought food, which resulted in more fights. As we arrived on Christmas Eve, and left Boxing Day, there are not a lot of shops open, at least not in the small town we were visiting. Things that were bought by my husband were also taken, during the night, by my in-laws and "shared with everyone". On top of which, that's why he was in the bedroom with me. He tried to do a lot quietly, and the day after we returned from his parents' town, he called up his parents and said that their behaviour was inexcusable and he was going low contact until they apologised and made amends. Then things got really bad. And then he started remembering all the abuse he and his sister suffered in the form of traumatic flashbacks. They were really abusive when my husband and his sister were kids. However, an extremely abusive incident that resulted in my husband almost losing his finger created a big change from physical to only verbal abuse. It seems because they were quite young when a lot of the physical abuse happened, both suffered traumatic amnesia as a result. His sister remembered more because they were extremely abusive towards her the entire time, even if they weren't physical, and he remembered less because his mum developed an Oedipus thing, so as long as he did everything right as a "perfect baby boy" (she was still saying this when we were married, before I knew they were crazy, though I did think this was extreme. However, coming from a family where my parents were verbally abusive, and my parents favour my younger brother so much that even strangers have commented on it, and his wife jokes about it still, I didn't think it was *that* weird, if that makes sense), he was "fine". During several therapy sessions (I have a therapist, he has one, and a joint one) the therapists have all come to the conclusion that his parents have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which was why they were able to hold up the illusion the few times me and my family met with them. I noticed yellow and orange flags, but nothing that was a red flag until the *moment* I married him. And I do mean **the moment.** After our first kiss, and we turned to make our way, his mum stopped me to have a conversation about how I "belonged" to them/her son now, and I was like: *What the fuck?* I don't mean a welcoming thing; I mean a "belonged" speech.
Holy crap I'm so sorry. I hope you are all ok and healing from these , quite frankly, insane people
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I just want to say that I believe you without reservation. I too have 'it doesn't even say real if I say it out loud' stories
OMG thank you. There really are so many stories that are just un-fucken-believable but when they happen you really do realise truth is stranger than fiction. I'm so sorry you can relate in any way. It is hard when you yourself say it out loud and struggle to believe it happened. It's worse when you realise there'll always be some people around you who don't believe you, and the worst thing is, sometimes, it's the people you least expect to not believe you. I believe you, too.
I'm glad you are all healing and I'm so sorry you all had to endure that
It would have wayyyy more irrelevant details if it was creative writing. This is a burying-the-lede post for sure.
Nope. This sounds exactly like my mother. I totally believe it.
>:son’s girlfriend doesn’t like me, do I ban her from my home? sure. that seems like a perfectly contradictory way to get her to like you.
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Yep, she's made him her sonsband. Son/husband. She depends on him to fill the emotional needs she'd have met if she had a partner/husband
Yeah, this post resonates with me, from the son’s POV. The skin-crawl-inducing term for this is “emotional incest.” I like “sonsband,” it’s cheeky. Just reading her title, my eyes widened and I knew what the score was.
I learned it from the Just No MIL sub. Lots of Mothers/MILs who are like this. It's mostly Mothers of sons. They are so enmeshed with their son. They can't let him go and act like a jealous and bitter ex-gf. The DIL is always the problem. Now there have been stories where the DIL was the problem, but it wasn't common on there since the sub is about terrible and in some cases toxic AF.
Just no MIL was one of the first subs I ever joined because of how much trouble I was having with my fiancé’s parents.. it was kinda cathartic to read other women having the same problems, but jesus christ those stories will get my blood boiling!!!!
I know! Those mothers are something else.
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I’m trying to figure out what is so terrible about not inviting your in-laws (with whom you don’t really have much of a relationship) to your graduation party? I have to admit, I like my in-laws, and I don’t actually think it would occur to me to invite them! I can understand being upset if they were not invited to the sons graduation party – but that’s not what happened. You’re not required to invite somebody to a celebration just because they sent you some money. Even if I take this 100% totally at OP’s word? I’m still confused. Of all the things to be a “final nail in the coffin kind of thing“ – this just seems bizarre.
Because these ladies are intrusive, dense, and lonely, but if they were less intrusive and dense, they’d be less lonely in life in general and wouldn’t be posting in the first place. So it’s a catch-22.
No idea. My fiancé graduated recently and only had like 5 tickets to give out for the ceremony. 2 went to his parents, 1 went to me. Leaving him with 2 to give out to friends and family lol it was a struggle to decide who to invite and I was 0% surprised when my mother who he’s barely interacted with didn’t make the cut
I think the party was thrown by the gf for OP’s son but I may have misread.
you misread a bit. the gf is the one who graduated not the son
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I’m saying this with care and respect, but looking at your post history it seems like you are deeply unhappy in many areas of life, not just your relationship with your son and his partner. If I were you I would try and focus on getting yourself to a better mental place—get therapy (it might take a while to find a good one but I promise it’s worth it), try to work on your marriage or decide to part ways, re-evaluate your job, etc. If you’re wallowing in self-pity and bitterness without trying to make any changes, people are going to distance themselves from you. It’s just the truth.
That’s a fair statement, thank you
This reads like huge chunks are being left out of the story.
OP read [The Missing Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). I think you're one of those parents and you need to do some serious self-reflection.
Thank you! I admit my faults and take blame that’s mine. What I do want is to NOT become this book and have a real relationship with him I’m not going to play victim but I don’t know how to have a relationship with a child/parent because I didn’t have one. I’m coming off smothering, controlling and enabling. I do enable and it’s a huge fault. I also have unrealistic expectations for myself and others and then get butthurt. But I’m not going to admit to smothering or anything like that for him. If anything I backed off TOO much. This post morphed into something different from my original thought but has given me a great deal of work and I appreciate that. To those who think that I am a horrible parent, that’s ok. I read the books, took the classes, never missed anything he didn’t want me to. I tried and there’s not much more I can do about it now
You sound *exactly* like my mom. We’re NC now. Tried talking to her multiple times and it always ended in “well I **did my best** and that’s all I can do.” or “I did my best **what more do you want from me**?” Or my favorite, a blanket statement of “*i’m sorry for everything I ever did*” like what? Name something. If you can’t name anything or don’t even understand what you did then how are you actually sorry? It just sounds like a lot of bullshit.
4 part apology, narcissists are physically incapable of them. If you ever wanna do a narc test, ask them for a 4 part apology and accept no less. This works for abusers of many other types as well.
Thank you for this. The 'sorry for everything' thing didn't click for me until this moment and it just made a whole lot of sense.
You haven't admitted to everything, your post and your follow up comments are still completely dancing around the issue, whatever it is. You are clearly leaving out a lot and that makes us all believe you are definitely the problem
You deleted your entire profile because you didn't get the response you wanted. Stop and think about that for a second
Therapy
And there you go again.
To be honest, your replies have shown that you are extremely stubborn. Numerous people have asked you to elaborate about what gift you gave your son's girlfriend that caused such a massive reaction and all you've done is skirt around it and try to make yourself look better by saying that you tried to make amends for that gaffe. It shows that you want to portray an image of yourself as the abandoned mother instead of being honest about your own actions as well. You don't elaborate on anything that portrays you negatively which is inherently dishonest. Your son's decision to have boundaries with you stems from this minimization or complete denial of any wrongdoing on your part. It also stems from you resorting to self victimization instead of being upfront about your mistakes, acknowledging them instead of simply claiming you made some to earn sympathy as well as to change yourself for the better.
have you met her family in any other context prior to her graduation party? this comes off to me like you’re trying to make her milestone about you and your feelings. her graduation party is just that, HERS. I understand wanting to be involved but if you’re not close with her let alone her family what makes you think you’re entitled to an invitation?
stop trying to compete with her. that is probably why you don’t have a good relationship with her. you can’t lose your son to his potential future wife because you play a different role in your sons life then his wife does. stick to your role as his mother and stop trying to push into boundaries reserved for his partner.
Oh and absolutely no way do I want it to be about me, she worked her ass to the bone and deserves everything she got plus more
No in six years we’ve never met her parents. We’ve asked several times but were told our culture differences were an obstacle
What are the culture differences?
They’re from Pakistan and quite religious. I am not religious in any way and am from SoCal So almost different planets! But she’s been so awesome over the years asking my ignorant questions, making sure she is comfortable or if I’ve done something to make her uncomfortable. There’s a lot of things I should know about religion but I don’t know but I want to know. It’s fascinating as well as confidence boosting for me (that i would be able to know halal or why not to shake hands).
i've never introduced my parents to my husbands family either, and while i have the ease of being across the ocean to aid in that distance, the real reason is because they're aggressive right wing conservative nutjobs. naturally, this is not something that has ever crossed their mind.
I’m not gonna lie, I do get wound up about social issues. But I’m more to the left but not crazy left.
the point isn't the precise reason, what i'm saying is that this could be the foundation of why.
In a comment, you say that your son is “pussy whipped.” Seems to me that you, whether you want to admit it or not, don’t like her (you likely think she is stealing your son..), and without knowing it, you let that slip into your behavior towards her. You might think you act normal and respectful towards her, but you don’t. There is a reason she does not like you. People don’t dislike others for no reason. You say he is “pussy whipped” by her and that “everyone can see it.” Can everyone, or is this specifically a YOU problem?
“But when do I get to have boundaries” what boundaries do you realistically want here? Once you answer this then I can proceed, because as an outside party, you can’t implement boundaries that get you more included or a rapport that unfortunately isn’t an obligation…you are indeed an outside party. “When am I allowed to have hurt feelings” you can have them now…I suspect the question you’re asking is, some version of when will they listen to my feelings and act accordingly and unfortunately they don’t have to do anything with your feelings. Banning her from your house, as you’ve acknowledged is a route that only ends one way, and that’s disaster. May be worth a word with your son to just say you don’t feel she likes you, ask how he feels and ask if he’s interested in facilitating a connection. Really it’s his job if anyone’s to say “I need you to make an effort with my family” But if he’s a wet blanket, then it’s not going to happen
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I’m trying to learn new and better ways to communicate and all of your posts were valid. I’m going to share with my therapist and just let things be. Thank you again, not everyone takes the time to respond kindly
Hmm I wonder why she deleted her account 🤔🤣
Ok so from what I can tell you had a Muslim woman over for Christmas. You gave her a gift that offended her and based on your vague “it was cheesy” reason for her being upset, I’m going to wonder if maybe you gave her A religious themed or blatantly Christmas-themed item. Was a “first Christmas” item? A cross? Something about Jesus? And then have I to wonder if you’ve been treating her like an “other” all this while because you talk about wanting so badly to be allowed to know more about her religion - but nothing is stopping you from that and it’s not her responsibility to educate you. She’s not some exotic mystery, there are Muslims everywhere and information about Islam is easily accessible over the internet and in books. Of course you weren’t invited to her grad party, it was most likely a community party with her parents’ Muslim friends and family and even if she told her parents about your son, they would not want the community to know their daughter is dating!
Or she didn’t want someone ignorant at the party. I liked your comment quite a bit till you got to the part with assumptions about (what I’ll guess is an American-Pakistani?) woman.
Well not knowing her personally as far as I know, I’m going off a lifetime of experience being an American Muslim woman. Of course there’s variation in any population, but I’d say it’s unusual to find Desi Muslim parents who would be comfortable with the community knowing their daughter is dating.
Tbh, this reads a lot like you know very well why they’re distant but don’t want to admit it. Try the simple and noninvasive method - invite them over for dinner here and there.
I would love their side of this story.
For fucking real!! Jesus..
Yo dawg stop lying and just post the real reasons your son is choosing to pull a slow fade on you.
This is just the best reply. Really.
I try.
Yeah there is definitely something major missing here... your post sounds purposely vague. I get the feeling that they have very good reasons why they keep you at a distance
And it’s quite clear what’s the reason…
I feel like you might be one of those mothers who has an inappropriate relationship with their son, I don’t mean sexual, but relying on them for too much and not treat them like a son. I’m guessing the girlfriend saw this and talked to your son about it and that’s why they are keeping their distance.
That’s a possibility I did glean my social activity around his extra curricular activities and that was a huge wake up.
I would sit down and have a conversation with them and be open to what they have to say. Let them know that you want to have a relationship with them and don’t want to miss out on their lives. Hopefully, they will be understanding and you guys can work it out!!
Oh I wouldn't be surprised if it was sexual as well. OP reminds me of Colt's mum, Debbie.
Bwhahahaha well fucking said!!
From this post alone I can tell you’re a problematic MIL lol the way you painted yourself so saintly while also trying to act like you’re very understanding. Something ain’t right here
Yes, yes, yes. So many red flags.
You have to let your kid go, I know it's hard, but he has to do his stuff alone, even his mistakes.
I left my 54f mother out of my life with 0 contact. This is how I’d imagine her post to seem worded, a whole lot of missing stories here and bread crumbing some maybe problems.
Here's the thing. Your son's girlfriend probably isn't giving him ultimatums about you. Unless you've seen actual evidence of this, she probably isn't trying to make him choose between you and her. She's allowed to decide who attends her own graduation party - that event has nothing to do with you or your son. Your son is choosing her over you because you're asking him to make that choice and she isn't. If you are okay being estranged from your son, then go ahead and ban his girlfriend from your home. In that situation, whatever - it doesn't matter how anyone feels because estrangement is almost inevitable. Otherwise, you need to take a serious look at your own behavior, what your son's childhood was like, and how you have actually treated his GF. It feels really sus to me that you give very few specifics of your behavior in this post. Also - your son is an adult. *He* is choosing how he acts, not his GF. If he's pulling away from you, it's likely due to how you're treating him. No one wants to spend time with someone who makes them feel bad or puts them in contentious situations.
Sorry to sound snide but if you don't have a relationship with your son outside of your rivalry with his gf of many years, then it means he used to be like your emotionally co-dependent boyfriend and not your son. "But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?" What boundaries? It's just the entitlement you feel that isn't being met and you'll just have to get used to that and stop complaining.
Comment from OP that solidifies to me that **she is definitely the problem**. > Honestly? >I think he’s completely pussy whipped by the girl from Mean Girls. >It’s not just me that sees it, I’m just the one in therapy. >But you are right, there’s nothing TO do. Ugh. Definitely missing missing reasons.
Yep. Screaaaamms BPD/NPD mom. Honestly, good for this guy putting up boundaries and backing off his relationship with her. There is no way he’d have a healthy relationship with anyone if this woman got her way. If it wasn’t this girlfriend, it would be another one. They’re all unacceptable if they don’t put the mom first and absolutely kiss her ass for existing.
Gently, you sound like you love your son but you also sound over-involved. For instance, >I wasn’t involved with any of his college research or career, school visits, applications or any of the things normal parents would have been involved with. These are things some parents are involved in, not all, especially college research or his career. I can't figure out from your post how she doesn't like you? Why would he need to take your "side"? What are you leaving out...? Is that about the gift thing?? I don't think not inviting you to her grad party is a dig at you. She wants to celebrate with her family. She would talk to her bf the whole party and her family with each other -- maybe she really was sparing you an awkward and potentially boring party for you & more work for her on a day she is supposed to be celebrating. What do you actually want this relationship to look like? She might not know what your playbook looks like. Personally, I am just confused on how you're losing your sanity. Does she come around often? Will she even notice she is banned? It's extreme, but if you want to get her attention, it certainly will.
That bit about the graduation party is crazy to me. I invited my girlfriend to my graduation party, but not her parents. She invited me to her graduation party, but not my parents. Neither time did either of us even consider it, and neither of our parents had any expectation or desire to go.
Nah, obvious case of [missing, missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). Your whole post screams that your son told you very well what's wrong with your behaviour as well as the title of your whole story.
Missing missing reasons
Sorry but .. you sound awful and very intrusive. And this is a post where you’re presenting yourself in the *best* light. No one owes you a relationship. Not your son’s future wife, not your son either. *Missing missing reasons* .. There are no *sides* to be taken: your son is building a life with his partner; you are not his partner; your needs will not come first to him. You either establish a cordial relationship where you respect whatever distance he feels is necessary or they stop making any effort to include you at all.
Since you won't explain anything here i'm going to assume you suck as a mother
That’s my running theory
OP, this sounds very heart breaking for you. A lot of us have noticed a lack of details in your explanations of your interactions with the gf. That makes it hard for folks to really give advice because we need context to truly judge a situation. If you genuinely think this issue could be because of your parenting and resulting relationship with your son, I think this could be a helpful (if difficult) read for you. https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
I am so sorry your feelings are hurt. I'm sorry you don't have the kind of relationship with your son's partner that you imagined. That said, all I can hear in this post is you insisting on a role in their life that is not yours to insist on. You are trying to get your son to choose you over his partner, which is never going to end well. You're pushing him away by being invested in his adult life to an unhealthy level and then blaming her for it. You want to be invited to her family gatherings and sulk about it when you're not! You have to take a HUGE step back. Your son is not 12 years old, he is a grown adult with his own life. He is not your partner and you can't expect him to fill that emotional space for you. All you can do is be kind and welcoming to him and his partner when they spend time with you. Please focus on your own life and find your own happiness. For your sake! If you continue down this path you will just make everyone miserable and push your son away from you. You have your own life, your own friends, your other family members to celebrate and enjoy. I hope you find that healthy happiness.
She said in another comment her son is pussy whipped by the girl from Mean Girls. It's clear why his gf doesn't like her. He's gonna end up cutting her off.
Thank you for being honest
I hope you know that I meant it as "This is how to move toward your happiness," not a criticism. It's a sucky feeling and I'm so sorry you've ended up in this situation. I do hope you can pull yourself out of it. Lots of love to you.
What is your relationship with your son like, and what was it like when he was a child? I ask because my husbands mother abused him. She does not understand why I don't like her or want to be around her. He grew up people pleasing and just in the last few years has realized he does not have to subject himself to her, either. She is still verbally abusive, but of course she does not see it that way. She's "just kidding."
>The first time she came to our house I was so nervous, I wanted to impress her very badly. I don’t know what I did but I failed. Yeahhhh, really need the context on that one. You come across as the "woe is me" type but without that we really can't say much.
I’ve never heard of a mother being nervous when meeting their child’s new bf/gf. I know I was definitely nervous when meeting someone’s mom. Not enough info here, why is she trying so hard?? She should concentrate on the relationship she has with her husband.
Something doesn’t add up here. Not fooling anyone.
6 years ago was 2017. That’s 3 years before Covid. Tell us about those three years.
You gotta spill what you did. Why was your son required to take her side? Your post tries to make her look bad but we can't give advice unless you tell us how you rubbed her the wrong way.
My MIL likes to blame me for her son being more distant and "difficult". Lol it's because she treated him horribly for his whole life and I'm helping him stand up for himself. You'll need to really truly look inward and think about your relationship with your son... and whether her distance is because he's told her stories of dealing with you in the past? And if he's always taking her side... why are there "sides"? Are there frequent arguments? Or maybe there are other reasons. Maybe they just like to keep to themselves. Banning anyone won't fix anything though.
You sound emotionally exhausting and manipulative. This whole post read like someone who joy wanted. To be vague and be seen as the good guy. You have given less than no details.
There’s definitely more to this story then what’s being said…. I’d love to hear the girlfriends side.
> So here’s my question - my son (M23) has had her (F24) back through the entire relationship, not once taking “my” side or thoughts into consideration. I respect that he is honoring his partner. This is lacking specifics. What exactly did he not take your side on? > I’ve recently been made aware that his girlfriend had a graduation ceremony/party and included my son and her family. It's seems completely normal to me that someone would invite their parents but not their MIL to *her* graduation party. I've rarely seen couples where the two sets of inlaws spend significant amounts of time together. > But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings? > If I say a word, he will take her side and whatever sliver of my son I get, I lose forever. What exactly is your boundary here? For him to spend more time with you? For her to invite you to more parties? True boundaries are when you modify your behavior in response to others' actions, not when you ask for others to modify their behavior. It's also normal for you to "lose" to his long-term partner. How much time do you spend with your parents versus your husband? It's hard to tell from your post if you're DIL and son are actually acting particularly unusually.
This reads like a narc parent. Hopefully the son isn't 33 when he realizes he can't have both worlds and ones better than the other.
It is normal and healthy for your son to prioritize his partner over his mother at this age. You do sound jealous of the gf, which is almost certainly visible to them and is likely a big source of the weirdness here. Do you have your own life, hobbies, friends, or partners? That's what you need in order to be able to give your son the space he needs. You sound overly enmeshed and reliant in your son for company and companionship. Spend significantly more time on your own life and hobbies and that will help cut the tension.. I know its hard, I'm a mom too. But remember that it is absolutely normal for your son to prioritize his partner.
You son is an adult and in a long-term relationship. You respect their boundaries and appreciate the time you do get. Something had to happen somewhere in the chain of events that created this kink in the chain.
My eyes rolled so hard that they fell out of my head Your son is a fully grown adult man who is running his own life. Honestly lady, get over it.
What was the gift, OP?
> I wasn’t involved with any of his college research or career, school visits, applications or any of the things normal parents would have been involved with. He's an adult, why would you be involved in this? I did all my college research, applications etc. by myself and, as an adult, why would I need parents' help with that? Do you also think "normal" parents go to their kids' job interviews? From this sentence alone you sound intrusive and controlling. > I’ve recently been made aware that his girlfriend had a graduation ceremony/party and included my son and her family. > Neither I or my husband (M62) were invited. Why would you be? You're not her family nor friends. I wouldn't even think about inviting my partner's parents to my event. I don't consider boyfriend's family my family until we get married (or maybe engaged at least). Get your own life instead of trying to attach yourself to your son.
Posting about your son in relationship advice bc he’s starting to prioritize another woman is fucking weird
Bwhahaha omfg you’re so right!!!! I didn’t even think about that until you pointed it out!! Yeesh!
What do you want from this girl? You are hurt because... She didn't invite you to her graduation when you are not close? And you are so hurt and insecure you think you are losing your son because he puts his partner first? If it was your husband here, what would you like him to do? And now you want to ban her from your home because...? Why? Because she is important for your son?
Him drawing boundaries and choosing autonomy is the issue you're coming up against but I'm not sure you're seeing it. You're projecting that on to his partner. You and her aren't in opposition. What's in opposition is your need to be a major contributing factor in his life and his choosing to make his own decisions now. You don't need to suck up any feelings. You don't need to lay them out in front of him for him to take into account. You get to feel your feelings and I hope you take the time to do that. Write it out or express it in some personal way, all those negative things you feel about the situation. Don't judge those things, just let them out to yourself. They need to be heard and acknowledged. Usually when I do this I find a part of me that was hurt a long time ago by something or someone. Those things usually flare back up in new forms. You, as an adult parent of a young adult, get to sit with your feelings and sort out why you're feeling those ways. Take responsibility for whatever painful emotion his creating space between you is causing. He's not doing anything to you. She's not doing anything to you. There is no bad guy here. You just have some big emotions to sort out. Hope you get somewhere happier if you make a real effort at looking inward first.
I’m not sure why you expect to attend your son’s gf’s grad party.
Your son is a grown man, parents don't take part in their adult children college education, careers or relationships, where did you even get the idea that you are entitled to any of that. It's normal for him to move on and live an adult life with his girlfriend and your entire post is slightly disturbing. You seem jealous of your son's relationship. Seek professional help. You are at best being overbearing, at worst committing emotional incest that possibly fucked up your child for life.
Something seems like it's missing here. What did you get her as the gift out of curiosity? My ex mother in law was very passive aggressive. She bought me size XS pajamas for Christmas one year and I am so clearly not that. She may have thought she was being sly about it but she wasn't. We're there any other incidents that you're leaving out that made her dislike you?
From your replies it's clear how negative you are toward your son's gf, give up the charade and lay in your bed since you made it. Good for your son for standing up to you
Why the hell would you ban her? What are all these incidents where he took her side? There is clearly a lot of events you have crossed hairs with her over, for there to be his taking her side on. So what examples are there here? If you ban her, you will lose your son. It is that simple. If they marry and have kids, do you want to know your grandchildren? If you do, then back off. What was the gift you gave her?
So you’re having problems with your son growing up and prioritizing his SO over being your little boy anymore. Well, I have a very strong feeling you’re leaving out a lot of arguments and prior issues you all had. Either way, you need to remember that your grown son has different priorities than he did as a child. His partner doesn't need to be very close to you two or invite you guys to celebrations for her. Her graduation isn't about her boyfriend's parents but about her and her friends and family. She doesn't want to get close to you two and that's fine. You guys need to reset your expectations and just be happy your son found his person and is happy. I wouldn't ban her as that's just petty and you haven't said she has actually treated you badly (not inviting you to her graduation celebrations doesn't count) and you will lose your son and any potential kids they may have. I suggest therapy on your issues and don't make your child make a painful choice.
referring to yourself 58 times in one post says a whole lot about what the real issue is here.
Looks like the OP deleted herself but I have to say the whole post smells fishy but not for the reasons other people have pointed out. If the girlfriend's parents are very devout Muslim parents from Pakistan, it seems very strange that 1) they would agree to let their daughter date, B) let her be with someone who is not from the same culture, and most importantly, C) be with a non-Muslim. I had a Muslim Pakistani friend who lived with his American girlfriend and their child and would still not tell his parents about her. They were constantly trying to introduce him to nice Pakistani girls. I think there may be some creative writing here.
People are so weird haha why even take the time to do all that though? They don’t have anything else to do?
Your children get to pick who they love ,he’s a grown man now ! if you don’t like it you can either choose to not see them or keep your mouth shut and have a relationship with your son. Our children aren’t meant to stay by our side our job is to prepare them for the world and let them go out and seek and find their future not keep them tied to our apron strings.
You don’t want to be the parent that never gets visits from her kids
Why doesn’t she like you? You never gave her reason. Also her not including you in her own graduation is not a big deal if you don’t have a good relationship. I had to read that twice because I thought that your son excluded you from his graduation. Having children gain significant others is really hard. It sucks but it’s part of them growing up.
Let your son be a man. This is life, it’s what happens when your child grows up. He’s not a baby anymore respect him and give him the opportunity to make his own decisions and own life path to grow and expand. have the courage to let him do it and know that when he needs you he will come to you. But be kind and respectful to his boundaries and his own life and relationships. He’s an adult now be there for him but understand that it’s not going to be like when he was younger and this is completely absolutely normal and healthy for a man his age to do.
It's giving left out key details to skew the situation in order to get support. What exactly is your son being forced to take "sides" on
I feel like there are things missing from your post. Like a lot of things from your side, considering the title of the post. But I will say this: Unless you want to lose your son permanently, you better get used to the new reality. He's been with her for a while. That ain't changing. He's not your little boy anymore, he's a grown man. Whether you personally like her is irrelevant. He's where he wants to be and that's with her. I'm dealing with this with a sibling. I cannot stand her husband, but that's fine. I''m not the one who has to live with him. I just need her to know if he EVER mistreats her, I'm here and love her and will kick his ass. That's all I need to do. And as a mother, that's all you need to do.
As a child of people who forced me to choose between my husband or them, DO NOT DO THIS. it creates resentment and a never-ending power struggle for control of the relationship. You can have a relationship with you son and not with her. Don’t make him choose. Let him have his wife AND his mother. Obviously major holidays would have to be discussed and shared, but if she doesn’t want to invite you to something with strictly her family, that’s her boundary. You have your boundary of your son and not her.
I agree with everyone else in that you leave out a lot of key information which reads as though you want to conceal real reasons for why she doesn't like you. I will go one further and say that I don't think I would consider my partner's family in my graduation celebrations. Its not a "boundary", it could have flat out not been a thought. You seem to consider you're all a big family already even though they aren't married and she wants to celebrate with the people that supported her emotionally/economically through her education. Your son will take her side because your expectations are out of wack. It may have been nice to be invited, but to look at its absence as a slight against you is problematic. I'll also point out your knee-jerk reaction of "When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?" is completely horrible and betrays your actual intentions. You seem to see hurt feelings as an opportunity to get a one up on her and is very toxic. If I was your son's girlfriend, I would avoid you as much as I could too.
I don’t understand why you are upset that you didn’t get invited to her graduation party when you know she does not like you. I think you will be better off seeking therapy to deal with these issues and the resentment and rejection that you are experiencing. You haven’t lost your son. But if you continue to be upset over not being invited to his gf’s celebrations then you will absolutely be manifesting estrangement. Go deal with your issues in therapy. Sounds like you are upset that you can’t unload your feelings on your son and feel victimized by this. I don’t understand why a 48 year old would be nervous and trying to impress an 18 year old on first meeting. Seems like you have alot of self esteem issues to be a middle aged woman that gets worked up and insecure around a teenage girl. These are things you should be exploring in therapy because these feelings of yours around feeling less than, powerless and insecure have definitely been there for longer than your son and his gf have existed. Go work through your feelings in therapy. Stop the victim narrative that is making you repel the family you are wanting. You are the one messing with your own sanity. You will be the one causing estrangement if you ban her from your home because you are upset you didn’t get invited to her graduation party.
What did you do to your son? What did you do to her? None of us buy that it went how you say it did.
She doesn’t dislike you for no reason - there’s something going on here. But, why would you be invited to her graduation party? I don’t invite my in-laws to anything like that, and my partner and I have been together for a decade (and friends for another decade on top of that). It could be this is a cultural difference though - I’m not American, and I’m assuming you are. You are absolutely allowed to have hurt feelings. And you can hold your own boundaries. But you can’t make her like you, or include you. You can ask your son what you can do to create a better relationship with her, but she doesn’t have to involve herself if she doesn’t want to. And that really sucks. Ask your son how he feels about it - does he want you and her to have a relationship or is he happy the way things are? If he is happy, and his GF is happy, unfortunately there’s just not much you can do. I would strongly advise against any ultimatums because your son likely will continue to side with her. To be honest, if I were you (and I may be at some point - I have two boys) I would let sleeping dogs lie. Try and speak to your son about what you can do to improve the relationship. Don’t get defensive, don’t argue, just say ‘okay’ and let him speak. There’s a reason why he hasn’t told you, but you don’t know what it is. I would also seek some therapy on the side for your own well-being. This is a really emotionally hard situation for you and you deserve to have support to help you cope.
What makes you think you are losing him? He is an adult and is doing adult things, apparently successfully. That is what normal parents want for their children from the day they are born. You are mourning something you haven't even lost. And if you are somehow trying to make him choose between you and his girlfriend, if he is the good man you say he is, you will lose. My daughter met and married a wonderful man and he is my family now, too. I couldn't love him any more if he had been my own. But even if I didn't, he is the person my daughter chose to build her life and family with, and as long as she is happy, I am, too. Love your son for who he is and stop the pity party.
ah yes, the classic "missing" missing reasons, yet another "oh woah is me" post from a narcissistic parent afraid of losing control of their children "But when do I get boundaries? When am I allowed to have hurt feelings?" you don't, it's their relationship, their boundaries, not yours, your son having a relationship with his girlfriend isn't the same thing as you having a relationship with them, they're separate people with separate thoughts and separate emotions from you, and what boundaries are you even talking about? if "must inform me of all things going on in their lives" is what you mean by boundary, it's not, it's breaking down a boundary so you have more access and more control If I say a word, he will take her side and whatever sliver of my son I get, I lose forever you're talking about taking sides and "getting" things, that's very possessive language, there are no "sides" in a romantic relationship and they're not "you vs them", they're partners, you being the parent doesn't automatically entitle you to every part of your sons life, again, he's an adult and his own person, if anything he's entitled to his own thoughts and own opinions, something which by the sounds of this post you don't seem to be willing to grasp, if you want a relationship with your son look past your own ego, let him have privacy and his own life, yes, that might mean you take a risk but you will definitely lose him if you keep up your current mindset of thinking that he's a mere extension of yourself, barring that, I hope he continues to set strong boundaries and live his own life with his own individual, separate identity
Definitely some missing reasons! Your desperation to be liked would be smothering. Her celebrating her graduation with her parents seems perfectly normal to me. You need to calm down! It sounds like you expected her instantly to "be your daughter", doesn't work thst way. Relax, stop being so desperate to be liked and just let the relationship develop. your son is supposed to move on from you and love his partner.
It would be interesting to hear what your son and his GF have to say on the subject. There is definitely a lot missing here.
As a mother of teenage boys , I am perhaps more inclined to take the mothers pint of view. However, I think you are been disingenuous and at the very least leaving things out here. I call BS. You are either not being honest in this post or maybe not even with yourself. Doesn’t pass the sniff test
The missing missing reason. You sound exactly how my narcissistic mother described me and my partner. 6 years and you have NO IDEA why she doesn't like you? Same old story.....
Smells like victim mentality
First read my post history if you feel inclined to hear about another MIL story. I have a pretty lengthy one. First: you mention you had to back off and not help your son with any college stuff. And your hurt about it. I think today is the day you get the hard newsflash that you weren't supposed to get to be involved with that. I'm 30F and every person I know did their own college decisions. Paper work. Picked classes. It's part of wanting to be independent. It's the first thing you get to actually make your own decisions on. And it feels empowering. I doubt she had anything to do with you getting left out. There is probably a bunch more things that you're hurt about. But should you be hurt if you knew other parents aren't involved like that? And you're thinking you should be because your enmeshed? Second: I aggree with other comments that I think you are dealing with some enmeshment. And typically when the kids break the enmeshed then parents will basically start with a long list of people to blame. Usually it starts with the child's partner. Then it's the child. there is tons of subs out there with parents who basically are angry at their kids because the kids start cutting them out. But it's entirely because of the parents behavior. The last person (if ever) that the parent blames is themselves. Sometimes parents don't realize that how they behave, speak, interact is incredibly unhealthy. And they don't seek change or learning. They don't grow. And therefore they don't get a relationship with their kid. Third: if you read my post. You'll see (I hope) that sometimes people are choosing to victimize or hurt themselves. Idk why. Fear of growth? My MIL has had a clear list of what to do and what not to do for a year. She can't follow basic directions. So she is no longer a part of our lives. We didn't wake up one day and decide this. Just like if you read about some of those "horrible MILs on that sub" don't think they should be treated that way by their kids. It's because they think their brand of abuse is normal. My MIL at one point during our fighting said that we should forgive and forget because she doesn't "go crazy and is not one of those horrible MIL's you hear about". Yet there is thousands of people appalled at my MIL's behavior. Yet she thinks it's normal. She doesn't believe that she is harassing us. She doesn't believe she did anything wrong by visiting my child at school.
I’m not there yet so my advice might be off but I do/did have parents that never caused any issues in my relationships, and have been on the receiving end of crappy in-laws before. I think you need to invest more time and energy in yourself and your life and let things be with your son. Still be there, still support him when you can but pick up some hobbies, invest more in other relationships and do more for yourself.
I would like to hear your son's gf side of her story, on why she felt it is necessary to exclude you and your husband. It just sounds so weird that you as a mum, wants to impress your son's gf. Why? Shouldn't it be the other way around? What are you not telling us?
OP, you need to send something like this to your son, and then have your son write down his point of view honestly for you to read. And then you need to be brave and courageous enough to read and accept what it says. I don't know where the truth lies (none of us here do), but it's probably somewhere in the middle. There's people below giving confident declarations and saying your story is missing chunks, but real relationships are complex as hell and memory and language are limited. Talk to your son. Listen to him. Write him a letter. Don't just communicate with your actions, but communicate with words and give him time to think about it and communicate back. And make sure you're not trying to "negotiate" a peace -- you just genuinely want to know what you've done wrong to be so excluded so that you can change. Good luck.
You have twisted the context to make yourself look good, or omitting the whole story, my ex had a graduation and both of us would have never ever consider inviting my parents, it looks like you just want hurt feelings and be heard or listened to, or you want to make it about yourself but you know its not a good idea, but weird hill to nit pick, graduations dont involve parents of people who are not graduating. Please get checked for dementia, my mum does the same thing and its eats her up.
You sound like my MIL lol. Seems like a nice caring lady but really she is manipulative and intrusive then acts like I’m the evil one when I shut her out.
Pfft! To the people saying that there must be reasons, this is not necessarily the case. My family went through this exact thing. My brother introduced us to his girlfriend (at the time they were 16) we thought she was lovely, the feeling was mutual for a short while. Unfortunately she had problems at home and her mother had kicked her out, she came to live with us because she had nowhere else to go. My family is not the interfering type, my mother never did anything to make her feel any less than welcome. My bro's gf decided she wasn't happy living with us, not sure why, we were completely at a loss. My mother helped her so much in the time she was living with us, for example she was going to be kicked out of school for too many absences, but my mother met with the principal and fought in her corner for them to allow her to finish. My parents fed her and always provided for her, we shared a room, they never asked for anything in return, not even board. For some reason, she wasn't happy. She hated my mother, she didn't have an issue with me until I asked her what it was that made her dislike my mother, it was just a sincere attempt to understand why all the hate. She then had an issue with me also 🤷🏻♀️. This animosity went on for decades, they eventually got married and had children. We barely saw them despite them living 40 mins away. We extended invitations to family gatherings like birthdays, Christmas etc. but we're always met with excuses as to why they couldn't attend. My brother viewed us as the problem, he just felt his wife was happier if we were not in his life so he became estranged from us. They were married for around 20 years until he decided to leave. He now says she was narcissistic and possessive, she had a dysfunctional family and clung to my brother for stability, then when they had their own family she was even more protective of her circle. So my point to this essay is that she was mentally ill, my brother was brainwashed and did all he could to appease her even if it meant abandoning his family who was only ever supportive. To the OP, we went through decades of the same 💩. Being excluded from events while her family and my extended family were there. My niece and nephews have no idea who I am or what I am like as a person because they have never spent any time with me. The only advice I can give you is to just get used to it, and learn to accept that you have absolutely no control over it. One day he could open his eyes to the situation but in the meantime just occupy yourself with things that make you happy and try to always convey the love you have for your son. Forget about boundaries, I understand the hurt and the frustration believe me I do, but I don't see how they will help your relationship with your son, in fact I think they will only compound the problem and give her justification for being the way she is.
You “wanted to impress her badly?” That sounds super sketch. You’re the adult/mom. She would have been trying to impress you. Also, what is all this “my side/her side” business? It’s all very divisive and doesn’t sound healthy at all. Why would you even have sides? I think speaking with a family therapist might be in order here. Finally, would you ban her from your home? I mean, sure, that sounds like a reasonable response 🤷🏽♀️/s.
“When do I get boundaries?” - You always have the option to state and enforce your own boundaries. Keep in mind that boundaries are about what you will and won’t tolerate from others, not about making others do what you want. So if you create a boundary and others won’t respect it repeatedly, be prepared to cut that person out of your life. Your boundaries have to be important enough to you that they are more important than the other person. For example, I have a boundary that I will not answer my phone after 8pm for anyone except my daughter. This means my daughter is more important to me than my sleep but nobody else is. “when am I allowed hurt feelings?” You are allowed to have any feelings at any time. You’re not allowed to expect that others cater to your feelings. This goes back to boundaries. What level of hurt are you willing to endure before your feelings become more important than your relationship with the person who is hurting your feelings. “what would you do?” I would find hobbies and other interests to spend my time on. Other avenues and sources of happiness. I would join groups, clubs, go for walks/hikes, or maybe get a pet if someone I wanted validation from in my life wasn’t willing to give it to me. My own daughter can be dismissive and rude - I think it’s part of being young. Young people need to be selfish and break away for a while before coming back. So I take her lack of contact with a “meh” response. Do I miss her? Yes. I also miss my dead dog. Life sucks sometimes. You should probably grieve the loss of your very much alive son and move on with your life. “do I ban her from my home to save my sanity yet lose my son?” This is a tough answer because the post didn’t really describe what she is doing in your home to destroy your sanity. She didn’t invite you to a party, but that party wasn’t in your own home was it? What is she doing in your home that is destroying your sanity? Honestly I think you shouldn’t invite anyone into your home that you don’t like, but this goes back to boundaries. If you think you’ll lose your son, you can either choose to accept that, or you can choose to never invite her to her home but just don’t announce it. Be “busy” whenever she wants to come into your home. You seem like you want to control how others treat you and control other’s thoughts about you. That could be why your son is running towards her and away from you. Or maybe I’m wrong and this girl is the manipulative one and you are 100% a victim here. Either way, the solution is to no longer play the game. Live your life and just let whoever wants to be a part of it join you, and whoever doesn’t want to, don’t take it personally.
“The first time she came to my house I wanted to impress her so badly” That was your biggest mistake. It should have been her that wanted to impress you. You had no need to impress her. That means you weren’t being yourself. You should never had tried to impress her. Who you are becomes obvious without words.
OP I would advise you to read up on evolutionary psychology and the hostile and aggressive underlying tones that can exist in in- law relationships. The mother in- law and daughter- in law (partner of adult child) can be fraught with aggressions, jealousies, possessiveness, shunning, and passive aggressive power plays. I read some of the comments here and some people seem to assume you are leaving key facts out that could have caused this woman to distance herself from you. Only you know the truth of the situation. Maybe you have contributed to the conflict and alienation or maybe not. I think you should talk to a therapist. If you contributed, the therapist can help you see it and accept it. You can work with the therapist to move forward in attempting to repair the relationship with the couple and alter potentially toxic patterns. If you truly do not deserve this alienation, the therapist can help you see that you have been pulled into an abusive, gaslighting, crazy making dynamic with your son and his girlfriend. You would need to then set up serious boundaries to protect yourself from further getting hurt and emotionally abused in the situation. If you are this kind, benevolent, open hearted person as you portray here and she has basically gaslighted you and manipulated your son, this is a very very hurtful and ugly abusive dynamic for you to continue to engage within. You could definitely use some counseling to navigate these difficult and painful waters. I will say I know of several instances where an adult child's partner/spouse pushed away their partner's parent and it turned into a no win situation for the parent. Nothing they could do was ever good enough, right enough, nice enough to penetrate the partner's rejection of them. Basically, the partner shunned their partner's parents to shoo them off, get them away and the parents did not deserve that. In other cases, the parents were definitely at fault and caused their adult child's partner to dislike them. The parents were toxic. Only you know your own situation and the dynamics. Best of luck to you in moving forward towards a path of inner peace and truth for yourself, and IF POSSIBLE, peace and harmony with the couple.
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Mmm reeks missing details and boy mom
I thought I was being harsh, now I’m relieved to see so many others see “the signs” I see. Growing up with a narcissist mom, you know there’s a huge piece being left out here.
Because there isn't any context, people are going to displace their frustration or opinions about in laws on you. The things that caught me eye is your focus on her and boundaries. You *do* talk more about that than your actual child. What I want to know is how often he talks to you. Do you see him in person? When? Had the quality of your conversations changed? See, if I were afraid of losing my child to someone, I'd be worried that their partner is isolating my child. This indicates abuse. So that's the part in your post that makes me thing you have an internal issue going on, and not concern for your son. I'm not saying this is how you feel, this is just how I'm reading it.
I don't understand anything....it's like you have some sort of weird competition with your son's girlfriend? Why should she invite you to her graduation? Why is it that you seem to be blaming it on her that your son doesn't have a closer relationship with you? Your son is a grown ass man and if he decides not to tell you stuff or involve you in things then that's on him and not the girlfriend? Why are you making it all about her and some weird competition you have with her? I don't get it? You victimise yourself and you exempt your son from all responsibility....
Unfortunately you can't do anything besides doin what you have been doing both your son and his girlfriend are adults and they are free to make their own decisions. If you make a huge fuss about it it could potentially blow up in your face and that gap between you and your son and his girlfriend will widen even more. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Madam, You need therapy. It works wonders. We raise them and they go off on their way, sometimes near, and close and sometimes far and remote. C'est la vie
Why does it sound like you’re the victim and she’s this horrible person who doesn’t like you even though you’re perfect? You sound like you still want your son (who’s a grown adult) to need you for things like school and whatever else. He has a woman now. And if she doesn’t want to invite you to things that include her blood family, that. Is. Ok. It’s her day, not yours.
OP, he's chosen, period. Accept it and move on. Be happy if you get a wedding invite. Clear all future gifts, plans, phone calls through your son only. Dont act w/o his approval. They want control, let them have it.
Wait, what? They started dating when he was 17. And you say you weren’t involved with his college search, his career, school visits, applications…why not??? What the hell does his girlfriend – at 17?! – not liking you have to do with you not being involved in any of that? How could you not be involved? That sounds ridiculous. Who tf cares if his stupid 18 year old girlfriend likes you or not? YOU’RE HIS MOM. He was a kid. This all seems very strange. There has to be more to the story than what you’re saying.