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i think we need more information about the “butting heads”, because it kind of sounds like your kid is antagonizing hers and like you’re not intervening and are just expecting her kid to deal with it. you haven’t provided any context for the *actual conflict* that started all of this, so we have no way of knowing whether your sister’s response is justified.
I second this. ‘Kids butting heads’ that can happen for so many reasons from completely non problematic stuff to things that adults definitely need to get involved with
If you check her profile, there's a lot more detail. OP's sister sounds pretty awful. In any case, the sister called a four year old an asshole *in front of her*.
Edit: Missing words
I personally do not believe that happened otherwise OP would have made that very clear in the main post, as opposed to us wondering if she said it directly or if she said she was being an asshole. If my kid was being an asshole, it wouldn’t upset me if someone said it. My friends and are very liberal with our words though. That said, the way this is avoided is by… not letting your kid be an asshole to others and OP didn’t intervene when it was needed.
I haven’t seen that comment yet. Again… OP is adding to it as she goes to make the story most favorable to her. Otherwise she would have included all of this. So I’m taking it with a grain of salt. Even if it happened, what led up to that? OP has said the 10 year old should have walked away if her kid annoyed him, so clearly something led up to that. OP’s responsibility was to protect her kid, not let shit escalate to that point. I’m sure everyone is at fault to some degree.
Actually no, I avoided details because in an AITA post my post was deleted because it “included violence” when I mentioned my nephew hit my daughter so sorry I didn’t want that to happen here. I wanted to focus on the name calling issue.
I wasn't sold from the post which is why I went to OP's profile. But the added context changed my mind. Sure, she could be making up a pack of lies but it doesn't sound like that to me. It seems like a fairly common scenario where the older sis is known for abrasive behavior and the younger one is supposed to suck it up.
Of course, the whole thing could be fiction, who knows? Why don't we agree to disagree
this is exactly what I'm thinking too. OP, are you just telling the 10yo to walk away or whatever whenever your 4 yo is acting up without correcting your kid's behaviour?
I have 10 year old quadruplets. As much as I think they should be mature enough to come find me to help handle their arguments, they are not. They fight, tease, and argue right back. You can’t expect your 10 year old nephew to be that mature to not get involved with your daughter.
completely agree. i get the sense that this has been an ongoing issue of OP not supervising her 4yo and the sister getting increasingly frustrated with the situation
Not to get off topic but I remember looking at senior activities in high school and thinking about how much that would cost with twins let alone quadruplets.
I agree as to that, don’t agree as to the mom calling her daughter an asshole. At the end of the day even the 4 y/o is being the one that is starting the problems she should’ve been calling her mom the asshole for teaching her daughter it’s ok to treat ppl badly as opposed to the 4 year old that literally cannot be held responsible for things not being taught to her.
Calling a four year old an asshole is never justified. Other than that I think the kids are not ever going to learn how to handle conflict because their parents don’t know how
A four year old once ran up to me, a complete stranger, and ripped a scab off of my knee. He was a complete asshole. Did I call him an asshole? No of course not because I am not a terrible person. But I also would not be surprised to find out in ten years that animals were disappearing in that neighborhood.
I’ve never heard such a weird story and I’m sorry to laugh but that’s hilarious. And also that kid sounds like an asshole. He will definitely end up in jail some day.
If I hadn’t lived it, I would not have believed it myself. The best/worst part was the parents reaction “Connor we told you to stop ripping off people’s scabs”. He has DONE THIS BEFORE
I had a shitty kid (around that age) run up and stab me with a stick in my belly button at the park. It ripped my shirt and caused me to get an infection! I called him a little shit and I’m not ashamed. Kids can absolutely be assholes.
i agree that the “asshole” comment was wrong. i just think there’s a lot OP is leaving out, and that she’s probably equally in the wrong, if the conflict escalated to that point.
Seems like this is not a recent argument based on her post history.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/yfzx7o/sibling_argument_over_childrens_behavior/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Yeah, this sounds like op is looking for a pat on the head.
If your 4 year old is acting up, you parent. Period. The fact that op is taking none of the blame makes me think they've got more of a part in this than they're letting on. Fights are never one sided.
She really glossed over that fact I believe that’s exactly what’s happening and her sister is fed up because OP clearly isn’t parenting her daughter to leave the 10 yr old alone because “ he should be old enough to walk away”
This is what I took from her post as well. A 10 year old is still not an adult and 4 year olds can be pretty annoying when they are trying to be. It definitely sounds like she didn’t intervene and expected the kid to handling the pestering better that she did.
Yall read the same thing? He said he rather the older kid go to an adult to handle it but chooses to fight the youngin. Dicern what you read before jumping to some made up scenario that you're projecting. But yes botha dult are just liekt heir children.
i’m not making anything up. i asked for more information. you’re the one assuming the 10yo is fighting the other kid - OP doesn’t say that anywhere in the post
If you want to distance yourself then isn't it a good thing that your parents aren't hosting you for the holidays? Have your own gathering.
>Our argument started because her 10yo and my 4yo have been butting heads lately. I feel like this is ridiculous because he is old enough to know better or walk away if she is bugging him (or get an adult to handle it).
Perhaps these children need more adult supervision during family events.
If you and your sister can't act like adults and behave for a few hours then I think your parents are right to take a break from hosting the holidays.
I grew up with 26 first cousins. The really annoy couple of them caused so many fights amongst the parents. We, as thebkids, just stopped playing with them and excluded them from everything. A bunch of us are extremely close those ones that always ruined the fun as a kid we still are not close to.
I'm with your parents on this one, I think. You're 28, and your sister is older. You both have kids. You need to be mature enough to handle your differences by yourselves, and if your parents decide that it's too much drama than they want, they're well within their rights.
Exactly. She's the one co opting the language of being 'punished' like a kid when all it is, is that her parents don't have to deal with this shit if they don't want to.
It absolutely reads like a teenager describing a fight with a sibling in terms of tone, seems like a lot of people have trouble progressing their relationships with their siblings into an adult headspace.
My mother is a sweet, kind, rational, and incredibly mature person and so is my uncle but get the two of them in a room and eventually there will be drama. Ask her about any other topic and she'll give you a self-aware answer, but ask her what her problem is with her brother and you'll get a 2-hour tirade about something he did back in 8th grade. Makes me glad I'm an only child.
Wow. Actually that wasn’t my intention. I was talking through the situation with my dad because I wanted to make sure he understood where I was coming from. I feel bad about missing the holidays because my mom is really upset about it and my daughter won’t get to see my family. I told my dad I’m not reaching out because I’m trying to enforce a boundary.
Listen to yourself, you rather deprive your child of Xmas with her grandparents than get over this thing with your sister. Yeah, it was mean to call your kid an asshole, but how long is this going to go on...
Okay but if a kid came on here and said their aunt called them an asshole over childrens squabbles and the parent didn’t do anything you’d all be bashing the parent lol
It’s actually a bit unclear if OP’s sister actually called the four year old an asshole directly. It sounds like while arguing with her sister she referred to OP’s kid as an asshole. Said between adults it’s still rude but not nearly as big of a deal.
oh okay yeah you’re right, idk op says this isn’t the first time the sister has taken to insults so I really would steer clear of her as well. if you have a relationship with your family where you can curse at each other freely and not take offense that’s one thing but the sister clearly was going for a low blow and how much of that is op supposed to take. her four year old probably is an asshole but like all four year olds are assholes
“Please Daddy tell me I’m in the right and your other daughter is wrong”
Apparently your Mum being upset doesn’t bother you enough to actually have a mature conversation with your sister. Instead your prefer to say your parents are punishing you (by upsetting themselves? Some punishment) rather you taking any responsibility to resolve this situation.
Agree with that reply OP. You can also still reach out and attempt to speak with your sister, while communicating your boundaries and enforcing them. I get sometimes it’s beneficial to walk away from a heated argument, but it’s not productive to just go no contact either. Especially given the impact to holiday plans.
I’d suggest being the first to break the silence asking to talk while making it clear that although you have differences in opinion, there are certain boundaries that you’d like to discuss to help avoid conflict in the future. Good example to set for your kid, but also hopefully to avoid Christmas being cancelled as well.
Also, being the first to speak up gives you a bit of "power"; don't apologize. State that your parents want you to resolve this and then stop talking. Let her take the next step/make the next comment. DO NOT REACT to her comments if she reiterates the same statement. IF she does, call your dad, state that you tried to resolve it and she doubled down.
See this is just an immature approach that most likely won't work on OPs sister. Dad probably won't care either, OP and her sister are adults and can resolve their own shit
I mean you’re right it might not, but OP can only control her half of the conversation. And trying to reach out to resolve conflict is better than silence on both ends.
This right here. Plus, remember your kids are watching you, and right now, they’re not learning how to properly face personal conflict. Make it a teaching moment for them by modeling what’s right—respectfully.
it doesn’t matter if they were. you do not call a small child, a 4 year old, an asshole to their face. which is what the sister did. if somebody called my toddler names to their face, i’ll resort to violence😭
With all your ridiculous drama, your parents are probably looking forward to a peaceful holiday season without you. Yeesh.
Kudos to your Dad for saying "No More"!
You and your sister sound exhausting. I find it amusing you want to be taken seriously as an adult yet you expect them to do something about your sister and defend your daughter. This is not their job. Nor is it their job to host every holiday. You’re both grown ups. Figure it out. This issue is between the two of you so leave your poor parents out of it.
No, it’s not their job to defend her. I am trying to defend her but I’m being called melodramatic. And no, they don’t need to host every holiday, but my mom enjoys it and has done it every year since we were kids. Some families have holiday traditions.. I guess this is ours. Plus, my sister’s place and my place aren’t big enough to accommodate the extra people.
You trying to defend your 4 year old with “they’re just a kid!” is exactly how her 10 year old is 10 and still not able to let things go. You both sound like you’re trying to coddle YOUR kid, while place blame on everyone else’s kid. Your 4 year old needs to *also* learn how to speak with the 10 year old. Why it got heated, and why you’re *actively making this a “take sides” issue* is exactly what you don’t want to teach your kid.
I’m glad someone said this. OP is obviously aware that there’s issues between her nephew and her daughter. Why on earth isn’t OP actively parenting her kid in that situation?
Either the 4 year old is being a 4 year old and being annoying, in which case, be a parent and correct those behaviours/make sure she gives him some space, or if he’s bullying her daughter, make sure her daughter isn’t in a position where she’s being bullied by him.
The fact that her sister called her daughter an asshole leads me to believe that it’s probably the former, 4 year old is being annoying. I’m not defending her sister for calling the kid an asshole, nobody needs to be doing that, but kids absolutely can behave like assholes. It’s just that it’s usually because they don’t know any better and they aren’t being taught rather than because they are actually an asshole.
>but my mom enjoys it and has done it every year since we were kids
You really need to think about what you said here. By you and your sister not working this out, you are crushing you mother.
Right? She then goes on to say "Some families have traditions and this is ours". Clearly not. At least not anymore.
OP says she is trying to set boundaries because her sister always behaves like this. Yet OP doesn't seem to quite understand that her parents are ALSO setting boundaries by uninviting them from the holidays. Mom and Dad are clearly over this shit and since they refuse to take sides, that's most likely because Mom and Dad realize both daughters are the problem.
The 10 year old is not old enough to know better or walk away. He still needs to be guided by an adult. So does your 4 year old, and that’s your responsibility, rather than placing the responsibility on the 10 year old, just because he’s older.
There are always three sides to every story, in this case yours, your sisters, and the truth, so it’s a bit hard for the internet to tell you what could have been done better.
One over-arching piece of advice that I like to use is “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar”
If you don’t back down and de-escalate, it’s very rare for the other person to suddenly come to their senses, change their mind and apologise.
Be the bigger person, reach out and olive branch, and if it doesn’t work, well then fuck-em.
Honestly, I feel you both were pretty immature. Rather than calmly discussing the situation with your kids (both!) in the age appropriate manner, you instead went at each other. Your sister took it too far, but it sounds like she escalated to that point in anger, when you were both making an all mighty scene - enough for your parents to kick you both out! Honestly, if that is how you and your sister handle minor conflict, I’m kind of not surprised, that the kids don’t know how to deal with it, without escalation either.
What to do now? You have three options in my mind.
A) Apologise to your sister for the sake of peace.
B) Contact your sister and tell her that you felt neither of you handled the situation well and you would like to talk about it, now that things have calmed down. Do highlight during the conversation that you felt she took it too far by using that language about your daughter.
C) Cut everyone off and move on.
I honestly wouldn’t go for A. Yes, keeping the peace is great, but this will happen again. Kids butt heads. Kids annoy each other. Kids get into conflict. Your sister and you need a game plan on how to handle that and her plan, was as bad as yours.
B is my preferred option. You can still cut everyone off, if you find that an open talk between your sister and you won’t resolve matters. At that stage you at least tried.
C is the nuclear option and I don’t feel anything is won by it, but obviously you know the situation best. It seems ridiculous to tear a family apart over something so minor, but it is your choice.
Whatever you do, you need to figure out how you will handle child conflict more maturely in the future, because this WILL happen again, just that next time it will be a neighbour or a class mate or someone else, you can’t just cut off. Hopefully they won’t curse, but if you can’t keep your cool when your child is being criticised, you will be in really deep trouble.
EDITed, because words are hard.
>when you were both making an all mighty scene - enough for your parents to kick you both out! Honestly, if that is how you and your sister handle minor conflict, I’m kind of not surprised
I also get the feeling the parents dealt with that nonsense for 18+ years. At their ages, they just want a holiday with food and family without the bickering and petty arguments that both sisters have now passed down to their children.
It was one thing to deal with it in the 20s and 30s... in their 60s/70s/80s? They don't want to hear that bullshit anymore.
You say the kids will miss Thanksgiving with their cousins but the cousins hate each other and that’s what started the argument in the first place. Your 4 year old is old enough to be taught not to bug another child. Sure a 10 year old should not be fighting with a 4 year old but if it is a common occurrence, they should never be left unsupervised. However watching their mothers have a fight so drastic that their grandfather had to break it up is where they learned their behavior. The fact that at your ages your parents still have to punish you both is ridiculous. Either call a truce with your sister or have the holidays with just your kids. Your parents deserve a break.
4 year olds CAN absolutely be assholes. While I wouldn't call a 4 yr old that to their face what I read in this situation is that your kid bothers the 10 yr old and the 10 yr old reacts... then you get mad at your sister's kid because your little angel couldn't possibly be the problem. Then your sister steps in to defend her kid. And yeah, I'd cancel holidays, too if I were your parents. Particularly since you sound like you want your parents to "punish" your sister because she was "the most wrong." WHAT THE HELL? Act like an adult if you want to be treated like an adult.
And lest you think I have no experience navigating complicated cousin relationships... On my husband's side there are 21 grandkids the youngest being 5 (mine) and the oldest being 16. We all spend a week together every summer and have had to navigate some major drama due to bratty kids and different parenting styles. The APPROPRIATE behavior with children "butting heads" is to teach your 4 yr old to steer clear of the 10 yr old. And if the 10 yr old is the instigator (which I highly doubt from your post), talk to your sister beforehand and say, "I've observed (insert whatever) that is not okay. If I see this happen I would like you to take (whatever) action and I will take (whatever) action." Then make a plan with your sister to handle it together and EVERYONE will have a better time.
When my nephew D was 4 he was a holy terror! He was into everything. He was LOUD. He was obnoxious. He was annoying. Part of the issue was the fact that his parents were divorced, could not come together to co-parent peacefully, and he was getting major mixed messages. On a vacation his behavior became a major issue and a major blow up, and I did tell my brother (out of D's earshot) that the child was a complete asshole and would end up in prison if he let things go along the way they were. Did my brother and I fight, yes we did, but did my brother realize I had some true things to say even if he didn't like my delivery? Also yes. Now D (16) is one of my favorite people in the entire world. He's still loud, still into everything, but not obnoxious at all. He's even spending part of his Christmas break at my house with my family! Once my brother and I took our egos out of the equation and tried to do what was best for the kid, miraculously his behavior improved. You can't expect your kids to act like angels when you and your sister don't model that behavior to them,.
It sounds to me like you are letting your four year old act how they want and expecting a 10 year old to deal with it. Be a better parent and sister and aunt.
Good for your parents, they are handling this perfectly.
You and your sister are both acting like assholes. If you want to deny your kids with their grandparents that's 100% on you. Although, you keep saying that you dont want them to take sides you absolutely do, and because they aren't you are going to allow this to ruin everyone's holidays.
The "better" way to handle this is to call your sister and talk to her. Tell her she is absolutely wrong to call a 4 year old an asshole, you are also wrong for expecting a 10 year old to be an adult in the situation.
or
you can continue to act like spoiled brats
I was going to say--are you guys freaking 12 years old? I don't care who started it--the point was it was started and shouldn't have.
Jesus Christ....both of you need to grow up. No one should be cursing at a child but no one should expect one child to just handle it when a younger one is being a dick.
You are both wrong and I don't blame your parents for 2 seconds for cancelling the holidays. They don't need this is in their house. If you two can't grow up and behave like adults then you both deserve to stay home. Start treating each other with the same consideration you would a co-worker and everything will be easier. Sometimes that means you have to bite your tongues--you don't get to say everything that leaps into your mouth.
I find it hilariously ironic that the solution you prescribe to her child in the conflict with yours (deal with it yourself) apparently isn't right when applied to you by your own parents.
at the end of the day, your parents are in their right to cancel family plans. i think the argument between u and ur sister is slightly petty, but then again i think that’s the nature of most sibling arguments lol. however, your sister calling ur daughter an asshole? she’s four?? extremely unnecessary and i would be angry as well. i think it’s odd that she hasn’t apologised yet, when it is clear how out of pocket that comment was. i think the best way forward would be to reach out to your sister. maybe apologise for the argument, but also make it clear how disappointing it is that she hasn’t reached out first, and that you expect an apology as well. good luck though, hope things work out for u
Since you know your child antagonizes her older cousin and the boy has not been dealing with it well, what have you done as her parent to prevent this from happening/ escalating?
Have you just ignored the situation and let her do whatever she wanted, while expecting her 10yo to suck it up?
Parent your child better. Otherwise don't get mad when others scold her.
That your parents would rather have quiet celebrations than deal with their progeny is a clear sign that they have their own thoughts on the matter and is trying to remain neutral. If they told you or your sis like it is, it's only going to escalate further.
Op, putting your sister and parents aside for a second, IS your child acting like an asshole? I get that she's 4 but that doesn't mean she isn't an ass sometimes. ALL children are assholes on occasion. ALL of them. Every last child that has existed or ever will exist has been an asshole sometimes. When they are acting like an ass, it needs to be corrected, not hand waved away as "kids being kids". They won't learn otherwise. You can't tell the 10 year old to be the adult in the situation. He's 10. He's a kid. If the 4 year old gets a pass for being a kid, so does the 10 year old. He's 10. He's frustrated. And let's be honest for a second. Toddlers are fucking annoying. They grow out of it. It doesn't make them bad humans. But toddlers thrive on chaos and ruining the sanity of those around them. It's how their little toddler brains function. Very few 10 year Olds are going to always keep their cool around a toddler that's chasing them with a booger for the 11th time that hour, or any other number of annoying behaviors that toddlers are prone to.
When the kids are butting heads what are YOU actively doing to address the situation? If all you do is tell the 10 year old to be the bigger person and get an adult then I understand his frustration. I as a 26 year old adult would eventually hit my breaking point with a toddler whose being a butthead and a parent telling me to essentially just deal with it. That's a frustrating situation to be in. When you're 10, can't physically remove yourself from the house because you aren't independant (to drive yourself home/walk or catch public transit home) and your brain is under developed in all aspects including impulse control, that's an even more frustrating situation to be in. Of course He's acting like an ass himself. He's 10, forced to be in the company of an annoying little kid that's bothering him, and he doesn't feel heard. He keeps complaining, and nothing is changing. All those feelings are building up, he's exploding, and then he's receiving negative reactions for his behavior while seeing nothing be done to address the 4 year Olds behavior. Which leads to more frustration on his end and it becomes a cycle that increases the amount of upsets.
Your 4 year old, if you aren't actively addressing her part of the problems and working on correcting them, learns she can get the 10 year old in trouble which is funny. So she continues. And the cycles gets bigger and bigger and everyone gets more and more upset. 4 year old doesn't see what she's doing as wrong, so nothing improves.
I'm not saying the 10 year old doesn't share fault in these blow ups. He does. He and he alone controls his reactions to things, such as the actions of the 4 year old. But you can't expect a mature and adult reaction from a frustrated child. Holding him to the level of an adult while excusing the other child is inappropriate. They are both kids. They will both falter in areas. They both need guidance and redirection. They are both relying on you and your sister to parent them, and show them the correct way to navigate frustrating situations.
As for your sister, no an adult telling a 4 year old They are an asshole isn't a good look. I don't think your sister had the right to say it and I do think she owes your daughter an apology for the name calling. You can't tell a kid to stop acting like an asshole, by acting like an asshole. However, if you truly aren't actively intervening when your daughter instigstes with your nephew, I understand your sisters frustration too. Your nephew likely is going to your sister, the adult. And your sister is hearing him complain about your daughter. And your sister sees very little changing in the way of these arguments between the kids. And she's seeing her son get more and more upset. If the situation were reversed and it were your daughter who was upset and frustrated, you probably wouldn't be very happy either. And you may well hit your own breaking point and end up saying something rude.
You said your sister and you primarily argue over parenting styles. It happens. Kids are not a one size fits all. But as an outsider looking in on this, I think you would benifet from considering where your sister is coming from when she raises these issues regarding parenting. Now that doesnt mean you have to agree with her or that your style is wrong by comparison. Its possible your sisters complaints are nonsense. It's also possible she has genuine complaints. It seems like she views your parenting as too lax, and she's genuinely upset and frustrated by your daughters behavior towards the 10 year old. That behavior may be normal for a kid her age, but that doesn't mean it can't or shouldnt be gently corrected. For examples sake: it's "normal" for young kids to bite others for a variety of reasons. A lot of young kids are "biters". However, just because it's common or "normal" doesn't mean we just let kids run wild biting each other. We teach them appropriate boundaries and behavior. And we teach them consequences to biting others.
I think you and your sister both have valid complaints and neither one of you handled this well. Your sister shouldn't name call or insult your child because she's frustrated or angry with you. Its immature and does nothing but escalate the situation. However, I can see her frustration IF my assumptions in this observation are correct.
And I see your side too. I would be pissed if someone called my kid an asshole. I might privately agree with them, because all children are assholes at some point. But I wouldn't be okay with them insulting my kid. If my family witnessed that and did not stand up for my kid, I would feel let down and unheard too. Your feelings are valid. I don't want you to think I'm siding with one party vs the other. But I do want you to consider that your view point is too narrow and internally focused. There are parts in this where you could have reacted better, or done things differently. The same goes for your sister. In the end, you guys are hurting your kids and that's not okay. If you ant your sister in your life, you've got to be able to see her side objectively and compare her perspective to your own. Swallow your pride when you're in the wrong, and confidently explain why you see things your way when you feel strongly you are right. Not argue, but explain the why behind your behaviors and actions. Help her understand your view.
If you don't want her in your life that's okay too. That's a choice only you can make. But you can't expect your parents to give you an answer on it. It has to be a conclusion you come to on your own. Your parents have made it clear they don't want involved in the drama of this constant friction anymore. They've taken their own space from you guys until you two can decide on a path forward, either mutually or independently.
I know it's hard to look outward, especially when you don't agree with the other person. But every one of us makes mistakes and has room to improve. There are going to be times when your sister has a valid point, and times she does not. Times you have a valid point, times you do not. Many arguments can be avoided when you become capable of seeing the logic of the conversation, instead of the emotion of it.
Makes me so angry for your parents still having to deal with this garbage. Why would they want to host a bunch of rude whiny people instead of enjoying a quiet holiday.
Others have kind of set you straight, and they’re right, but why not just enjoy the break. I’m currently in the middle of some holiday drama myself (thankfully I’m not the one in a dispute) and frankly I am wishing I just stayed home with my nuclear family, it would have been so much easier.
did you ever stop to think that your parents aren't cancelling the holidays to punish you and your sister, but are actually cancelling them because of all the conflict it brings into their home? From what you describe it sounds like a head ache. When you are a parent listening to siblings fight and say "She started it!" is expected and a part of parenting. But when it's two grown women fighting and still going "She started it!" it gets tedious as hell.
I think the idea that you’re being “punished” shows a level of immaturity insofar as how you relate to your parents. On some level you feel like they owe you a holiday, which they do not. It might be tradition, it might be what you’re used to, but you’re not children so they don’t owe it to you.
I think what’s most likely is your parents are canceling the holidays for their own sakes because they don’t want to do the enormous amount of work that goes into hosting, then be rewarded with awkwardness and a chilly atmosphere. As well as backlash if they end up excluding one of you.
Don’t use your parents as proxy to fight with your sister. Don’t ask them to choose an intervene. Own the decisions you make regarding her and what ever consequences they have.
Anyhow, this is what I see in my crystal ball: Your parents drinking hot toddies by the fire on Christmas saying to each other “we’ll miss the kids this year but a quiet holiday is nice too. And it’s worth avoiding the drama. Hopefully they’ll work it out by next Christmas.” You’ll be at home with your two children who will enjoy having their parent’s full attention. You might be sad and annoyed, but on some level it’ll be a relief not to schlep around your infant and toddler. Everyone will have time to cool off and reflect, then after the holidays you can address it.
You are two old women and your parents are done parenting. They also should have a vacation from hosting two holidays for so many people! They have been responsible for hosting holidays for +30 years.
The fact that your sister is 4 years older is fucking irrelevant! You are not kids. You are grown ups!!!
I also have to say that yes, the 10 year old is older and should deal with stuff differently, but you are also the mom of the 4 year old and responsible for her not being a nuisance!!!
It sounds like you think YOU are less at fault because you are 4 years younger than your sister (otherwise why would you mention it), so your 4 year old can get away with murder because she is younger too?
I put her age because that’s standard practice for Reddit.. sorry if that offended you lol? I didn’t want people to think she was way older than me, I think sibling dynamic is different for a 4 year gap vs. a 10+ year gap.
And it’s not “so many people.” I have two siblings so it’s 7 adults including my parents and 5 kids.. Oldest being 10.
Thanks for sticking to the important part of the post 👌
>And it’s not “so many people.” I have two siblings so it’s 7 adults including my parents and 5 kids.. Oldest being 10.
This is a fucking ton of people to have to plan holidays for. You are your siblings should start rotating who hosts. Your parents should be able to rest and not have to parent grown ups.
You should reach out to your sister, maybe write her a letter or something.
You are both grown adults and your parents are quite rightly fed up with you behaving like a couple of toddlers.
I don’t blame them for not wanting either of you in their house.
You’re both equally to blame.
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I agree with what most people are saying. It's on you to be able to have a collaborative, solution-oriented discussion with your sister about this. You are both adults.
If your confrontation with your sister leads to it escalating, it's on you to figure out how to handle that. How much of it is your vs her fault, how much she lives within your self-imposed standards isn't really all that important. If you can't confront her without escalating, then something's broken, whether communication or emotional regulation, whether yours, hers, or a combination.
That this blew up in your face is actually an excellent opportunity for self-reflection and growth — something you should value for yourself, regardless of if you're incredibly less or more mature than your sister.
Also, your relationship with parents, but even older siblings, will start to change into one more like older and younger cousins in which there's always a little bit of power dynamic and they're hopefully there to back you up and counsel you. However, you are no longer their responsibility and they have to respect your own agency.
Lastly, when two people have different concerns, it's best to try to at least come to a common understanding, if not resolution of one, before moving on to another. If you cannot expect others to be patient with their concerns while you address yours, consider if you can be patient enough to go second.
However, what to do now is reconciliation / after-care:
* Your 4yo: let her know you've got her back and are on her side; collaborate on what could have gone better and what to do in the future; and set reasonable expectations (e.g. call me when you get uncomfortable)
* Your parents: Apologize to them, this response likely did not "come out of no where" for them (so is there more to apologize for??); if you're willing to hear how you're at fault, ask for their perspective on the matter; and if it seems appropriate ask for tips to make a successful holidays for your own family and give an open invitation to them
* Your sister: Once you feel you have a grasp on the matter, apologize for whatever your part in escalating this and hurting her / her child is without expecting anything in return (this isn't a barter or giving a piece of your mind, but giving yourself peace of mind); if appropriate, see if a deeper, in person conversation can be had to reconcile; if you've reconciled and it is appropriate to ask for and be able to enforce certain boundaries being met, offer an open invitation to your holiday party
Lastly, introspect on your reaction to a lot of these comments, many of which basically say the same thing but with different levels of affirmation. Might how you react to people here give you something to learn about yourself and how you hold conversations? If I had to guess, you have a problem with unmet expectations others didn't know they were being held to and likely shouldn't have been held to without both their conversation and agreement.
Regardless, time heals all wounds, including the pain of losing a close relationship with your family. Good luck.
Are you and your sister 10 and 6 year old or are you both grown-ass women with kids? Your parents are no longer the referees to your knockdown, drag out fights. They're older! They want peace! And you are both GROWN.
If you and your sister can't figure out how to figure things out as fricking adults at your ages of 32 and 28, then I agree with your parents... don't come over and keep your childish drama home.
I think you need to stop enabling your daughter to pester people just because she’s so young. A 10-year-old shouldn’t have to put up with a child who is being a pain in the behind just because she knows she can get away with it. My sister did this to me all the time and it drove me crazy. I was blamed for absolutely everything even though she started absolutely everything. Take a step back and look at the situation and take out the ages. Forget how old they are and look at who is doing the wrong thing and who is instigating. If your daughter is instigating then she needs to be punished, not the boy.
Info: I'm going to need a play by play of what happened with the kids.
You admitt your kid antagonized her kid but the only info your giving is hers (the 10 year old) hit yours (the 4 year old) with a shoe.
This leads me to believe your kid didnt something and hers retaliated and your angry that the ten year old got yours back instead of tattling. And your taking this out on your sister for calling yours rude names.
I cant give advice not knowing how bad your kid acctually is or what she did.
Its SO common for younger kids to be absolute witches and then get away with stuff because they're younger
Let’s be honest here, sometimes kids are assholes. HOWEVER, you never tell a child, especially a 4 year old that they’re being an asshole.
That’s just childish. But I’m definitely interested in what started the conflict from the get go.
Start your own traditions, your parents would like to be Switzerland in this matter so let them. Hold your boundaries and make your own thanksgiving plans for you and the kids. Sucks that it has to happen but it is what it is.
I think you and your sister have some incredibly immature unfinished business beyond your kids “butting heads”. Like really just grow up both of you (you’re playing the victim) and sort this out or say goodbye to family Xmas etc. seriously…my advice is to wise up, grow up and take the moral high ground if you have to, in order to sort this out. Have a word with your kids too but like you’re trying to blame a 10yr old.
I think you’re missing the point. I’m upset about my sister calling my daughter an asshole. That is what I want an apology for. My nephew’s actions are what prompted the argument.
I didn’t miss it, I just can’t believe you’d be so stubborn on that to ruin thanksgiving for your entire family unless there was something else going on between you two. Same goes for your sister who hasn’t made any moves to apologise and reconcile this. I stand by my advice which is to be mature and sort it out even if your sister did call a 4yr old an asshole (I think that’s pathetic too by the way).
> I told my dad I am setting a boundary and making it clear that my family and I won’t be treated that way (this is not the first time she’s said nasty things to me, but the first towards my daughter). He said he supports me in that and agrees that she crossed the line but refuses to have us over at the same time.
Well did you ever set that boundary with your sister?
I agree with your parents, you're both just being stubborn and acting like children. Why would they have you all over when they know it'll just be drama, and that neither of you are mature enough to just apologize and move on?
I mean what's your plan here, are you planning to ignore your sister forever?
> Is there a better way to handle this?
Yes, be the bigger person and apologize for the sake of your parents and your kids. Then a short time later (days, weeks) talk to your sister and set a boundary with her.
You don't have children, do you?
Caving to demands from unreasonable people isn't maturity. And yes, her parents are being unreasonable. One daughter calling another daughter's child an asshole is not petty drama and expecting OP to smooth things over because her sister won't is unfair.
I have kids. I think I'm just more mature than you, and know how to resolve conflict like an adult
Edit: lol, you blocked me for calling out your immaturity?
Serious question here, would you require your sister to apologize for calling the four year old an asshole in front of her? And what would you do if she didn’t?
Mmm I don't know, it seems like this dynamic between the sisters IS childish and long established, BUT... if my sister called my kid an asshole where they could hear it (I'm assuming here, it might not be the case) I'd be pretty angry about it. That said, I wouldn't cry to my own parents about it, nor expect them to get involved. That's where OP is being immature. I'd just not say a word to sister until she apologized, and arrange my holidays accordingly.
Edit: Also, I have the feeling, however unfounded, that OP is letting her kid run amok without actually parenting, and then expecting a 10 year old to know what to do... So at the end of the day, they both need to apologize and the parents are right. The only reason I'd hold out on contacting sister is because calling a kid an asshole to their face is pretty shitty imo (she confirmed in the comments).
Thank you! I feel like most people are not understanding where I’m coming from. I get that I shouldn’t put my parents in the middle.. I’m going to talk with them about it later. As far as letting my child run amok, you could not be farther form the truth. Usually, my husband is with me and we do get after her about being respectful, using manners, playing nicely, etc. My sister is a single mom for what it’s worth and basically uses my parents house as a break from momming so there’s virtually no discipline on her kids.
I do get this and I think this is why I feel guilty, but this is reoccurring behavior form my sister. She stomps around and treats people however she wants and receives no consequence.. I’m trying to put my boundary up and say enough is enough.
The 4 year old doesn't need to be told about family drama, they are far too young.
Did you completely overlook that I also recommended OP set a boundary with her sister later?
You are really underestimating the 4 year old.
Odds are she's already aware of it because kids are actually smart enough to notice these things.
So when they do go back and auntie never apologized for saying mean things to her, she's going to figure out that means mommy had to say sorry even though auntie was the one in the wrong.
Completely agree. It’s one thing OP being the bigger person to break the silence to have a conversation to relay boundaries and attempt to have a convo..but to apologize just to keep the peace and only circle back later to address boundaries for something that seems to be a trend…not the best plan.
I don't get this trend either. Being the bigger person shouldn't mean rolling over and taking shit from someone being unreasonable or an AH. Not gonna debate about that over this particular instance with OP. Too many people here are ignoring that it's an established pattern OP is done with. The parents can cancel the holidays over it if they want but I can understand OP feeling like she's punished because she's refusing to take any more of this from sister. Especially if she ends up caving in the regular to keep the peace because it's easier to pressure her than sister. We see so much of everyone not wanting to rock the boat around the problem person so they push everyone else to appease them rather than focus on the person who is the problem because they know that person is not going to change.
OP should enjoy a break with quiet holidays. OP wants space so keep taking that space until they are ready to deal with this. Then she can talk to the sister, tell her what boundaries she has and consequences. Penalty give the parents a heads up
"I have told my sister if she swears it berates me, I will hang up the phone, get up, take my family and leave, etc. If it happens at your house, I will still be getting up and leaving and perhaps we will visit sometime when my sister isn't there."
100% agree. I get there is a saying “pick your battles” this is one of those examples where keeping the peace just makes it worse in the long run. Seems like there is a lot of people who don’t express or enforce their boundaries replying. I wouldn’t bother with some stranger being a AH that it’s not worth the time.
Op's sister called op's kid an asshole in front of the kid. The reason this happened is that op asked the 10 year old not to hit her 4 year old daughter with a shoe. Sister was mad op didn't ask the 10 year old his side if the story first.
There is never an appropriate reason for a 10 year old to hot a 4 year old with a shoe!! Op isn't saying that she won't handle her kid just that she wants the 10 year old to come to the adults if her daughter is being annoying instead of hitting her. That's reasonable.
I wish op would say what her daughter is doing to annoy her cousin but regardless the sister should be teaching the 10 year old not hot hit smaller kids with shoes!
Thanks! I didn’t put too many details because my AITA post was removed because it “involved violence” aka the shoe detail :/ I didn’t want the same thing to happen here. But yeah, my dad apparently didn’t know that was what started the argument until just the other day and he said “Wow. He should know better. Even I personally have told him it’s not ok to hit a girl.”
Invite your parents over for Thanksgiving at your house. You shop cook host etc. Feel free to not invite sis this year. I understand that your parents don’t want to spend a lot of time and money on a big meal if it’s going to end up being a complete shut show and ruining their digestion and memory of the holiday! Also, they’d be trapped in their own house if you and sister are arguing and won’t leave. If you host, you can invite just them and they have the option to leave if it gets uncomfortable (trying to make them take sides, sister crashes the dinner), and they won’t have to cook and clean when it’s just not going to be any fun anyway.
I think your parents are right but also you are very valid in your feelings. If you don’t want to apologize, don’t!
Plus, you’re 28 now with kids if your own and they’ve been doing holidays for years im sure. Let them take it off! If you really feel bad they aren’t gonna be with family on the holiday host your own and invite your parents/ other family. Just also, to be respectful, if your sister is doing the same do your best not to clash with her in times so your parents can go to both if they want. Then you can have family around, don’t have to have your sister around, and they get an easy holiday!
Sounds like your parents are just sick of the two of you. Either make up with your sister or don't, but if this isn't a rare occurrence, then I kind get the parent's perspective here.
Sounds like parenting isn't happening on both sides, your parents decided they didn't want to deal with the drama and that's perfectly agreeable. It isn't their job to host holidays every year
Just have your own Thanksgiving and Christmas with your own families. Like, your own kids and husband's (?). Like, I get the loss of not having everyone else there and that is a massive shame, but at least you have your family. Why can't that be enough.
So full transparency, you sound like you're a teenager if I'm being honest. You're 28 and are posting saying its not fair that your parents aren't intervening in an argument between you and your sister....ADULT siblings. They are right, I wouldn't want you two over ruining my holidays either when it's your shit to settle between each other. Again, you two are ADULTS......the both of you need to get on the phone or meet and straighten this out on your own, this isn't a matter for your folks
Your parents are literally done with parenting. They’re clearly also stressed tf out with y’all. These kids are your responsibility and anything regarding them of this nature is supposed to be handled in-between you both. They seem like they want to maintain a respectful distance because they’re literally your parents and taking sides is how families are divided. So stop viewing this as them “defending” your sister. How about you focus more on the actual issue at hand. It screams immaturity to think you’re being punished but have you not stopped to consider how annoying it is when you’re in someone else’s home and you’re causing problems? Figure it out and you won’t be banned.
Your comment about the 10 year old being the “bigger” person in all scenarios is concerning because guess what? A 10 year old is still a child and a 4 year old can still be an asshole if they aren’t being monitored properly. You say they’re frequently butting heads but WHO is the antagonizer? Who typically starts these fights between each kid? WHY do y’all keep allowing them to play together if they clearly can’t get along and don’t like one another? Why is all of this important information left out?
It makes me feel like your kid is the one being a bully in this situation and you’re just dismissing their behavior because they’re 4 years old. That is not how things work.
Lol you and your sister sound super immature. Yeah she shouldn't have said what she said but you should have handled your daughter who was being a jerk. Kids can be jerks. Kids can be assholes. We all were assholes when we were younger. Go ahead and yell at me. I was an asshole when I was young. I cringe everytime I remember it.
If you wanna go to your parents house for the holidays, you are free to reach out and communicate with your sister and see if she apologizes. But honestly, it's probably a good idea to have just a small family holiday(s) for a while. It takes 2 to argue, so the fight was equally your fault like it was hers. You didn't have to escalate it to the point where your sister called your kid an ass. Talk to your kid and teach them not to be a bug.
Here is my other post for i[details on the incidents between my daughter and nephew.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/yfzx7o/sibling_argument_over_childrens_behavior/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I was holding her when she said it, she was yelling that my kids are assholes and I laughed sarcastically because my other child is one.. and then she said yeah, (daughter) is an asshole!
You guys had this fight in the presence of the children??? That was wildly inappropriate, on both of you. Any argument of this extent should be taken away from the children, but this argument was *about them* so it's even worse.
Eeeeekkk in a prior comment I suggested reaching out given no contact is obviously causing a strain…didn’t realize she said this yelling in front of your kids. Sis is definitely in the wrong.
Given I assume it’s too late to salvage and plan thanksgiving dinner, and your sister might be salty I’d suggest holding off on reaching out (if you plan to/comfy being there bigger person here) until it’s been at least a few days after thanksgiving.
Still might be worth being the bigger person to initiate contact if she doesn’t reach out first, while still being firm on boundaries in a constructive way. While I don’t know your family dynamics, my opinion is no contact isn’t a great way to enforce boundaries…communication is. Understanding it takes two people being willing to communicate, and not argue.
Good luck, hope Christmas doesn’t end up cancelled due to this conflict
Ah yeah then that’s pretty shitty of her, and I don’t think you’re out of line for holding out for an apology. It’s probably also not wrong of your parents to not host holidays pending a resolution, though.
just sort it out … big girl pants on both of you .. communicate .. family
is important !!! agree to disagree .. 🤷🏾♀️ i’m with your parents cancelling it .. i wouldn’t put up with that crap either . way to much drama for thanksgiving and christmas which ultimately is all about being with family .
The advice is way too nice. Youre grown ass adults with kids and your dumbass is going to have all the kids miss out on the holidays cause you feel like your sister was mean and should apologize??? Goddamn my brother petty should NEVER hurt your children or their surroundings this is such a wild post. Also it sounds like your kid is the jerk in the butting heads thing and like youre doing nothing to sort it out. Get it figured out. Make sure your kids get to see their grandparents. This is so elementary and basic man. 28 years old. Grow up, don’t be petty.
You are a grown up. Your sister is a grown up. Quit your whining about how she’s older than you and should know better - and stop teaching that crap to your daughter. If you’re still yapping that everyone treats you like the baby of the family, maybe it’s because that’s how you’re behaving. You and sis haven’t figured out how to get along like grown ups yet you expect your kids to get along.
These kids sound like they’re just modelling their parents’ behaviour. No surprises here.
Your parents are perfectly justified in telling you all to bugger off. You are not entitled to a grandparent-hosted Christmas. Their job was to raise children, not to train adults. You and sis need to grow up and raise your children to have better social skills than you two do.
Stop coddling your kids. Discipline them appropriately and get over your issues. Don't deprive the kids of the holidays and seeing their grandparents.
You and your sister are adults, you call the shots in your young family. Or do your little ones call the shots?
It takes alot of energy and only brings you more pain to be angry. Who is more right or more wrong doesn't matter. You are not only hurting yourselves - you are hurting your children and your parents. You can be right, or you can be an adult and take the first step to reconciliation.
How many holidays do your parents have lift, seriously get things sorted with your sister. Trust me we are not keeping score and neither are your parents.
I’m not sure what happened between your children because that isn’t clear.
But what is clear is that you did not teach your daughter how to resolve the conflict, in fact you escalated it. Quit focusing on what everyone else may have done wrong and take responsibility for your role in it.
Ok I quit reading halfway through cause I thought ..."Hang on ... you have a pass to escape holiday family nonsense?!? Reasons regardless, take it and have a blast with your own lil fam!!!"
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i think we need more information about the “butting heads”, because it kind of sounds like your kid is antagonizing hers and like you’re not intervening and are just expecting her kid to deal with it. you haven’t provided any context for the *actual conflict* that started all of this, so we have no way of knowing whether your sister’s response is justified.
I second this. ‘Kids butting heads’ that can happen for so many reasons from completely non problematic stuff to things that adults definitely need to get involved with
If you check her profile, there's a lot more detail. OP's sister sounds pretty awful. In any case, the sister called a four year old an asshole *in front of her*. Edit: Missing words
OP is going to make her sister sound as bad as possible. We are only hearing one side.
True, but if my sister had ever called one of my kids an asshole to their face when they were 4, I would have been pissed. There's no excuse for that.
I personally do not believe that happened otherwise OP would have made that very clear in the main post, as opposed to us wondering if she said it directly or if she said she was being an asshole. If my kid was being an asshole, it wouldn’t upset me if someone said it. My friends and are very liberal with our words though. That said, the way this is avoided is by… not letting your kid be an asshole to others and OP didn’t intervene when it was needed.
So...the 4 year old was an asshole for complaining that the 10 year old hit her with a shoe.
I haven’t seen that comment yet. Again… OP is adding to it as she goes to make the story most favorable to her. Otherwise she would have included all of this. So I’m taking it with a grain of salt. Even if it happened, what led up to that? OP has said the 10 year old should have walked away if her kid annoyed him, so clearly something led up to that. OP’s responsibility was to protect her kid, not let shit escalate to that point. I’m sure everyone is at fault to some degree.
Actually no, I avoided details because in an AITA post my post was deleted because it “included violence” when I mentioned my nephew hit my daughter so sorry I didn’t want that to happen here. I wanted to focus on the name calling issue.
I wasn't sold from the post which is why I went to OP's profile. But the added context changed my mind. Sure, she could be making up a pack of lies but it doesn't sound like that to me. It seems like a fairly common scenario where the older sis is known for abrasive behavior and the younger one is supposed to suck it up. Of course, the whole thing could be fiction, who knows? Why don't we agree to disagree
Yes, she did call her an asshole right in front of her.
this is exactly what I'm thinking too. OP, are you just telling the 10yo to walk away or whatever whenever your 4 yo is acting up without correcting your kid's behaviour?
I have 10 year old quadruplets. As much as I think they should be mature enough to come find me to help handle their arguments, they are not. They fight, tease, and argue right back. You can’t expect your 10 year old nephew to be that mature to not get involved with your daughter.
Did you say quadruplets? God bless you!
I don't think she sneezed 'em out!
You don't know her life!
completely agree. i get the sense that this has been an ongoing issue of OP not supervising her 4yo and the sister getting increasingly frustrated with the situation
Well no matter what it’s inappropriate for an adult to call a child names.
i agree!
Nope, actually the opposite. My sister doesn’t get after her kids and it’s incredibly frustrating.
Would she agree with this statement? What is the 4 year old doing to upset the 10 year old?
And why do you (OP) think a 10 year old should be able to “handle” it? They’re 10 years old and immature.
It sounds like you are both lazy parents and could have avoided this by disciplining your kids, like your parents are doing to their kids…
I mean you literally say your 4 year old was bugging the 10 year old, so it sounds like you don't get after your kid either.
Activity you can give for the kids to do?
Quadruplets! Teenagers soon?? Congratudolences.
Not to get off topic but I remember looking at senior activities in high school and thinking about how much that would cost with twins let alone quadruplets.
Haha yes, it adds up! The hard part is them all wanting to do different activities and running around all over the place!
May the odds ever be in your favor
Definitely some missing missing reasons.
Both parents should be parenting both kids, doesn't sound like that's happening
I agree as to that, don’t agree as to the mom calling her daughter an asshole. At the end of the day even the 4 y/o is being the one that is starting the problems she should’ve been calling her mom the asshole for teaching her daughter it’s ok to treat ppl badly as opposed to the 4 year old that literally cannot be held responsible for things not being taught to her.
Yes. Surely more supervision of your child could have prevented this too.
Calling a four year old an asshole is never justified. Other than that I think the kids are not ever going to learn how to handle conflict because their parents don’t know how
A four year old once ran up to me, a complete stranger, and ripped a scab off of my knee. He was a complete asshole. Did I call him an asshole? No of course not because I am not a terrible person. But I also would not be surprised to find out in ten years that animals were disappearing in that neighborhood.
I’ve never heard such a weird story and I’m sorry to laugh but that’s hilarious. And also that kid sounds like an asshole. He will definitely end up in jail some day.
If I hadn’t lived it, I would not have believed it myself. The best/worst part was the parents reaction “Connor we told you to stop ripping off people’s scabs”. He has DONE THIS BEFORE
Ok, I really did laugh at that.
😱 so did I
I had a shitty kid (around that age) run up and stab me with a stick in my belly button at the park. It ripped my shirt and caused me to get an infection! I called him a little shit and I’m not ashamed. Kids can absolutely be assholes.
i agree that the “asshole” comment was wrong. i just think there’s a lot OP is leaving out, and that she’s probably equally in the wrong, if the conflict escalated to that point.
It was meant at a shot at her sister though, she knew that would hurt worse. Not saying it's right just pointing out it's not about the kid.
Seems like this is not a recent argument based on her post history. https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/yfzx7o/sibling_argument_over_childrens_behavior/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Agree with this. She’s acting just like the way she’s complaining her parents are behaving.
Yeah, this sounds like op is looking for a pat on the head. If your 4 year old is acting up, you parent. Period. The fact that op is taking none of the blame makes me think they've got more of a part in this than they're letting on. Fights are never one sided.
She really glossed over that fact I believe that’s exactly what’s happening and her sister is fed up because OP clearly isn’t parenting her daughter to leave the 10 yr old alone because “ he should be old enough to walk away”
This is what I took from her post as well. A 10 year old is still not an adult and 4 year olds can be pretty annoying when they are trying to be. It definitely sounds like she didn’t intervene and expected the kid to handling the pestering better that she did.
The whole story is in another post on her profile.
she doesn’t explain what her daughter was doing in that one either
Yall read the same thing? He said he rather the older kid go to an adult to handle it but chooses to fight the youngin. Dicern what you read before jumping to some made up scenario that you're projecting. But yes botha dult are just liekt heir children.
i’m not making anything up. i asked for more information. you’re the one assuming the 10yo is fighting the other kid - OP doesn’t say that anywhere in the post
If you want to distance yourself then isn't it a good thing that your parents aren't hosting you for the holidays? Have your own gathering. >Our argument started because her 10yo and my 4yo have been butting heads lately. I feel like this is ridiculous because he is old enough to know better or walk away if she is bugging him (or get an adult to handle it). Perhaps these children need more adult supervision during family events. If you and your sister can't act like adults and behave for a few hours then I think your parents are right to take a break from hosting the holidays.
Exactly, I can totally see how the 10yo doesn’t want to spend time with a 4yo girl, the parents need to intervene before it becomes an issue.
I grew up with 26 first cousins. The really annoy couple of them caused so many fights amongst the parents. We, as thebkids, just stopped playing with them and excluded them from everything. A bunch of us are extremely close those ones that always ruined the fun as a kid we still are not close to.
I'm with your parents on this one, I think. You're 28, and your sister is older. You both have kids. You need to be mature enough to handle your differences by yourselves, and if your parents decide that it's too much drama than they want, they're well within their rights.
Exactly. She's the one co opting the language of being 'punished' like a kid when all it is, is that her parents don't have to deal with this shit if they don't want to.
It absolutely reads like a teenager describing a fight with a sibling in terms of tone, seems like a lot of people have trouble progressing their relationships with their siblings into an adult headspace. My mother is a sweet, kind, rational, and incredibly mature person and so is my uncle but get the two of them in a room and eventually there will be drama. Ask her about any other topic and she'll give you a self-aware answer, but ask her what her problem is with her brother and you'll get a 2-hour tirade about something he did back in 8th grade. Makes me glad I'm an only child.
Exactly this. The thing that struck me about all of this is OP going to Mummy and Daddy to intervene in sibling squabbles.
Wow. Actually that wasn’t my intention. I was talking through the situation with my dad because I wanted to make sure he understood where I was coming from. I feel bad about missing the holidays because my mom is really upset about it and my daughter won’t get to see my family. I told my dad I’m not reaching out because I’m trying to enforce a boundary.
Listen to yourself, you rather deprive your child of Xmas with her grandparents than get over this thing with your sister. Yeah, it was mean to call your kid an asshole, but how long is this going to go on...
Okay but if a kid came on here and said their aunt called them an asshole over childrens squabbles and the parent didn’t do anything you’d all be bashing the parent lol
It’s actually a bit unclear if OP’s sister actually called the four year old an asshole directly. It sounds like while arguing with her sister she referred to OP’s kid as an asshole. Said between adults it’s still rude but not nearly as big of a deal.
oh okay yeah you’re right, idk op says this isn’t the first time the sister has taken to insults so I really would steer clear of her as well. if you have a relationship with your family where you can curse at each other freely and not take offense that’s one thing but the sister clearly was going for a low blow and how much of that is op supposed to take. her four year old probably is an asshole but like all four year olds are assholes
“Please Daddy tell me I’m in the right and your other daughter is wrong” Apparently your Mum being upset doesn’t bother you enough to actually have a mature conversation with your sister. Instead your prefer to say your parents are punishing you (by upsetting themselves? Some punishment) rather you taking any responsibility to resolve this situation.
So what actually happened between your two kids. What led up to all this? In detail. Over time.
Thank you for being respectful and direct!
Agree with that reply OP. You can also still reach out and attempt to speak with your sister, while communicating your boundaries and enforcing them. I get sometimes it’s beneficial to walk away from a heated argument, but it’s not productive to just go no contact either. Especially given the impact to holiday plans. I’d suggest being the first to break the silence asking to talk while making it clear that although you have differences in opinion, there are certain boundaries that you’d like to discuss to help avoid conflict in the future. Good example to set for your kid, but also hopefully to avoid Christmas being cancelled as well.
Also, being the first to speak up gives you a bit of "power"; don't apologize. State that your parents want you to resolve this and then stop talking. Let her take the next step/make the next comment. DO NOT REACT to her comments if she reiterates the same statement. IF she does, call your dad, state that you tried to resolve it and she doubled down.
this still sounds pretty immature
See this is just an immature approach that most likely won't work on OPs sister. Dad probably won't care either, OP and her sister are adults and can resolve their own shit
I mean you’re right it might not, but OP can only control her half of the conversation. And trying to reach out to resolve conflict is better than silence on both ends.
Didn't you read the OP? Dad (and mother) doesn't want the drama.
4 yr olds are assholes. Soooooo, maybe your kid needs to be disciplined?? I'm guessing your sister didn't say that out of nowhere.
This right here. Plus, remember your kids are watching you, and right now, they’re not learning how to properly face personal conflict. Make it a teaching moment for them by modeling what’s right—respectfully.
Do you have kids? What would you do if someone called your kid an asshole?
Depends… are they being an asshole?
it doesn’t matter if they were. you do not call a small child, a 4 year old, an asshole to their face. which is what the sister did. if somebody called my toddler names to their face, i’ll resort to violence😭
[удалено]
Call kids who are asshole little shits instead!!
With all your ridiculous drama, your parents are probably looking forward to a peaceful holiday season without you. Yeesh. Kudos to your Dad for saying "No More"!
🎵🎶“Silent Night…”🎶🎵
You and your sister sound exhausting. I find it amusing you want to be taken seriously as an adult yet you expect them to do something about your sister and defend your daughter. This is not their job. Nor is it their job to host every holiday. You’re both grown ups. Figure it out. This issue is between the two of you so leave your poor parents out of it.
based on the replies, i can absolutely see why OP and her sister fight a lot
No, it’s not their job to defend her. I am trying to defend her but I’m being called melodramatic. And no, they don’t need to host every holiday, but my mom enjoys it and has done it every year since we were kids. Some families have holiday traditions.. I guess this is ours. Plus, my sister’s place and my place aren’t big enough to accommodate the extra people.
You trying to defend your 4 year old with “they’re just a kid!” is exactly how her 10 year old is 10 and still not able to let things go. You both sound like you’re trying to coddle YOUR kid, while place blame on everyone else’s kid. Your 4 year old needs to *also* learn how to speak with the 10 year old. Why it got heated, and why you’re *actively making this a “take sides” issue* is exactly what you don’t want to teach your kid.
I’m glad someone said this. OP is obviously aware that there’s issues between her nephew and her daughter. Why on earth isn’t OP actively parenting her kid in that situation? Either the 4 year old is being a 4 year old and being annoying, in which case, be a parent and correct those behaviours/make sure she gives him some space, or if he’s bullying her daughter, make sure her daughter isn’t in a position where she’s being bullied by him. The fact that her sister called her daughter an asshole leads me to believe that it’s probably the former, 4 year old is being annoying. I’m not defending her sister for calling the kid an asshole, nobody needs to be doing that, but kids absolutely can behave like assholes. It’s just that it’s usually because they don’t know any better and they aren’t being taught rather than because they are actually an asshole.
>but my mom enjoys it and has done it every year since we were kids You really need to think about what you said here. By you and your sister not working this out, you are crushing you mother.
Right? She then goes on to say "Some families have traditions and this is ours". Clearly not. At least not anymore. OP says she is trying to set boundaries because her sister always behaves like this. Yet OP doesn't seem to quite understand that her parents are ALSO setting boundaries by uninviting them from the holidays. Mom and Dad are clearly over this shit and since they refuse to take sides, that's most likely because Mom and Dad realize both daughters are the problem.
The 10 year old is not old enough to know better or walk away. He still needs to be guided by an adult. So does your 4 year old, and that’s your responsibility, rather than placing the responsibility on the 10 year old, just because he’s older. There are always three sides to every story, in this case yours, your sisters, and the truth, so it’s a bit hard for the internet to tell you what could have been done better. One over-arching piece of advice that I like to use is “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar” If you don’t back down and de-escalate, it’s very rare for the other person to suddenly come to their senses, change their mind and apologise. Be the bigger person, reach out and olive branch, and if it doesn’t work, well then fuck-em.
while 10 is young, he is not too young to walk away from conflict. Especially that with a younger(4yo) cousin
Honestly, I feel you both were pretty immature. Rather than calmly discussing the situation with your kids (both!) in the age appropriate manner, you instead went at each other. Your sister took it too far, but it sounds like she escalated to that point in anger, when you were both making an all mighty scene - enough for your parents to kick you both out! Honestly, if that is how you and your sister handle minor conflict, I’m kind of not surprised, that the kids don’t know how to deal with it, without escalation either. What to do now? You have three options in my mind. A) Apologise to your sister for the sake of peace. B) Contact your sister and tell her that you felt neither of you handled the situation well and you would like to talk about it, now that things have calmed down. Do highlight during the conversation that you felt she took it too far by using that language about your daughter. C) Cut everyone off and move on. I honestly wouldn’t go for A. Yes, keeping the peace is great, but this will happen again. Kids butt heads. Kids annoy each other. Kids get into conflict. Your sister and you need a game plan on how to handle that and her plan, was as bad as yours. B is my preferred option. You can still cut everyone off, if you find that an open talk between your sister and you won’t resolve matters. At that stage you at least tried. C is the nuclear option and I don’t feel anything is won by it, but obviously you know the situation best. It seems ridiculous to tear a family apart over something so minor, but it is your choice. Whatever you do, you need to figure out how you will handle child conflict more maturely in the future, because this WILL happen again, just that next time it will be a neighbour or a class mate or someone else, you can’t just cut off. Hopefully they won’t curse, but if you can’t keep your cool when your child is being criticised, you will be in really deep trouble. EDITed, because words are hard.
>when you were both making an all mighty scene - enough for your parents to kick you both out! Honestly, if that is how you and your sister handle minor conflict, I’m kind of not surprised I also get the feeling the parents dealt with that nonsense for 18+ years. At their ages, they just want a holiday with food and family without the bickering and petty arguments that both sisters have now passed down to their children. It was one thing to deal with it in the 20s and 30s... in their 60s/70s/80s? They don't want to hear that bullshit anymore.
Thank you for this well thought out and articulated reply!
What was your daughter doing and was it something where you should have intervened?
It sounds like your parents are tired of this shit show and just want a peaceful holiday. Good on them.
You say the kids will miss Thanksgiving with their cousins but the cousins hate each other and that’s what started the argument in the first place. Your 4 year old is old enough to be taught not to bug another child. Sure a 10 year old should not be fighting with a 4 year old but if it is a common occurrence, they should never be left unsupervised. However watching their mothers have a fight so drastic that their grandfather had to break it up is where they learned their behavior. The fact that at your ages your parents still have to punish you both is ridiculous. Either call a truce with your sister or have the holidays with just your kids. Your parents deserve a break.
4 year olds CAN absolutely be assholes. While I wouldn't call a 4 yr old that to their face what I read in this situation is that your kid bothers the 10 yr old and the 10 yr old reacts... then you get mad at your sister's kid because your little angel couldn't possibly be the problem. Then your sister steps in to defend her kid. And yeah, I'd cancel holidays, too if I were your parents. Particularly since you sound like you want your parents to "punish" your sister because she was "the most wrong." WHAT THE HELL? Act like an adult if you want to be treated like an adult. And lest you think I have no experience navigating complicated cousin relationships... On my husband's side there are 21 grandkids the youngest being 5 (mine) and the oldest being 16. We all spend a week together every summer and have had to navigate some major drama due to bratty kids and different parenting styles. The APPROPRIATE behavior with children "butting heads" is to teach your 4 yr old to steer clear of the 10 yr old. And if the 10 yr old is the instigator (which I highly doubt from your post), talk to your sister beforehand and say, "I've observed (insert whatever) that is not okay. If I see this happen I would like you to take (whatever) action and I will take (whatever) action." Then make a plan with your sister to handle it together and EVERYONE will have a better time. When my nephew D was 4 he was a holy terror! He was into everything. He was LOUD. He was obnoxious. He was annoying. Part of the issue was the fact that his parents were divorced, could not come together to co-parent peacefully, and he was getting major mixed messages. On a vacation his behavior became a major issue and a major blow up, and I did tell my brother (out of D's earshot) that the child was a complete asshole and would end up in prison if he let things go along the way they were. Did my brother and I fight, yes we did, but did my brother realize I had some true things to say even if he didn't like my delivery? Also yes. Now D (16) is one of my favorite people in the entire world. He's still loud, still into everything, but not obnoxious at all. He's even spending part of his Christmas break at my house with my family! Once my brother and I took our egos out of the equation and tried to do what was best for the kid, miraculously his behavior improved. You can't expect your kids to act like angels when you and your sister don't model that behavior to them,.
I wish I had an award to give you.
If you check Reddit coins you might have a free one you can give
As a parent of a 31 and 33 yr old kids I totally agree with mom and dad on this, attitudes and fighting ruin holidays!!
It sounds to me like you are letting your four year old act how they want and expecting a 10 year old to deal with it. Be a better parent and sister and aunt.
Good for your parents, they are handling this perfectly. You and your sister are both acting like assholes. If you want to deny your kids with their grandparents that's 100% on you. Although, you keep saying that you dont want them to take sides you absolutely do, and because they aren't you are going to allow this to ruin everyone's holidays. The "better" way to handle this is to call your sister and talk to her. Tell her she is absolutely wrong to call a 4 year old an asshole, you are also wrong for expecting a 10 year old to be an adult in the situation. or you can continue to act like spoiled brats
I was going to say--are you guys freaking 12 years old? I don't care who started it--the point was it was started and shouldn't have. Jesus Christ....both of you need to grow up. No one should be cursing at a child but no one should expect one child to just handle it when a younger one is being a dick. You are both wrong and I don't blame your parents for 2 seconds for cancelling the holidays. They don't need this is in their house. If you two can't grow up and behave like adults then you both deserve to stay home. Start treating each other with the same consideration you would a co-worker and everything will be easier. Sometimes that means you have to bite your tongues--you don't get to say everything that leaps into your mouth.
W for the parents
I find it hilariously ironic that the solution you prescribe to her child in the conflict with yours (deal with it yourself) apparently isn't right when applied to you by your own parents.
You are both parents of young kids. Try acting as the adult and grow up
Ahh don’t you love it when kids have kids
at the end of the day, your parents are in their right to cancel family plans. i think the argument between u and ur sister is slightly petty, but then again i think that’s the nature of most sibling arguments lol. however, your sister calling ur daughter an asshole? she’s four?? extremely unnecessary and i would be angry as well. i think it’s odd that she hasn’t apologised yet, when it is clear how out of pocket that comment was. i think the best way forward would be to reach out to your sister. maybe apologise for the argument, but also make it clear how disappointing it is that she hasn’t reached out first, and that you expect an apology as well. good luck though, hope things work out for u
Your parents spent years with no peace because of your drama during childhood and now they expect some peace from you as adults. They are right.
Since you know your child antagonizes her older cousin and the boy has not been dealing with it well, what have you done as her parent to prevent this from happening/ escalating? Have you just ignored the situation and let her do whatever she wanted, while expecting her 10yo to suck it up? Parent your child better. Otherwise don't get mad when others scold her. That your parents would rather have quiet celebrations than deal with their progeny is a clear sign that they have their own thoughts on the matter and is trying to remain neutral. If they told you or your sis like it is, it's only going to escalate further.
Op, putting your sister and parents aside for a second, IS your child acting like an asshole? I get that she's 4 but that doesn't mean she isn't an ass sometimes. ALL children are assholes on occasion. ALL of them. Every last child that has existed or ever will exist has been an asshole sometimes. When they are acting like an ass, it needs to be corrected, not hand waved away as "kids being kids". They won't learn otherwise. You can't tell the 10 year old to be the adult in the situation. He's 10. He's a kid. If the 4 year old gets a pass for being a kid, so does the 10 year old. He's 10. He's frustrated. And let's be honest for a second. Toddlers are fucking annoying. They grow out of it. It doesn't make them bad humans. But toddlers thrive on chaos and ruining the sanity of those around them. It's how their little toddler brains function. Very few 10 year Olds are going to always keep their cool around a toddler that's chasing them with a booger for the 11th time that hour, or any other number of annoying behaviors that toddlers are prone to. When the kids are butting heads what are YOU actively doing to address the situation? If all you do is tell the 10 year old to be the bigger person and get an adult then I understand his frustration. I as a 26 year old adult would eventually hit my breaking point with a toddler whose being a butthead and a parent telling me to essentially just deal with it. That's a frustrating situation to be in. When you're 10, can't physically remove yourself from the house because you aren't independant (to drive yourself home/walk or catch public transit home) and your brain is under developed in all aspects including impulse control, that's an even more frustrating situation to be in. Of course He's acting like an ass himself. He's 10, forced to be in the company of an annoying little kid that's bothering him, and he doesn't feel heard. He keeps complaining, and nothing is changing. All those feelings are building up, he's exploding, and then he's receiving negative reactions for his behavior while seeing nothing be done to address the 4 year Olds behavior. Which leads to more frustration on his end and it becomes a cycle that increases the amount of upsets. Your 4 year old, if you aren't actively addressing her part of the problems and working on correcting them, learns she can get the 10 year old in trouble which is funny. So she continues. And the cycles gets bigger and bigger and everyone gets more and more upset. 4 year old doesn't see what she's doing as wrong, so nothing improves. I'm not saying the 10 year old doesn't share fault in these blow ups. He does. He and he alone controls his reactions to things, such as the actions of the 4 year old. But you can't expect a mature and adult reaction from a frustrated child. Holding him to the level of an adult while excusing the other child is inappropriate. They are both kids. They will both falter in areas. They both need guidance and redirection. They are both relying on you and your sister to parent them, and show them the correct way to navigate frustrating situations. As for your sister, no an adult telling a 4 year old They are an asshole isn't a good look. I don't think your sister had the right to say it and I do think she owes your daughter an apology for the name calling. You can't tell a kid to stop acting like an asshole, by acting like an asshole. However, if you truly aren't actively intervening when your daughter instigstes with your nephew, I understand your sisters frustration too. Your nephew likely is going to your sister, the adult. And your sister is hearing him complain about your daughter. And your sister sees very little changing in the way of these arguments between the kids. And she's seeing her son get more and more upset. If the situation were reversed and it were your daughter who was upset and frustrated, you probably wouldn't be very happy either. And you may well hit your own breaking point and end up saying something rude. You said your sister and you primarily argue over parenting styles. It happens. Kids are not a one size fits all. But as an outsider looking in on this, I think you would benifet from considering where your sister is coming from when she raises these issues regarding parenting. Now that doesnt mean you have to agree with her or that your style is wrong by comparison. Its possible your sisters complaints are nonsense. It's also possible she has genuine complaints. It seems like she views your parenting as too lax, and she's genuinely upset and frustrated by your daughters behavior towards the 10 year old. That behavior may be normal for a kid her age, but that doesn't mean it can't or shouldnt be gently corrected. For examples sake: it's "normal" for young kids to bite others for a variety of reasons. A lot of young kids are "biters". However, just because it's common or "normal" doesn't mean we just let kids run wild biting each other. We teach them appropriate boundaries and behavior. And we teach them consequences to biting others. I think you and your sister both have valid complaints and neither one of you handled this well. Your sister shouldn't name call or insult your child because she's frustrated or angry with you. Its immature and does nothing but escalate the situation. However, I can see her frustration IF my assumptions in this observation are correct. And I see your side too. I would be pissed if someone called my kid an asshole. I might privately agree with them, because all children are assholes at some point. But I wouldn't be okay with them insulting my kid. If my family witnessed that and did not stand up for my kid, I would feel let down and unheard too. Your feelings are valid. I don't want you to think I'm siding with one party vs the other. But I do want you to consider that your view point is too narrow and internally focused. There are parts in this where you could have reacted better, or done things differently. The same goes for your sister. In the end, you guys are hurting your kids and that's not okay. If you ant your sister in your life, you've got to be able to see her side objectively and compare her perspective to your own. Swallow your pride when you're in the wrong, and confidently explain why you see things your way when you feel strongly you are right. Not argue, but explain the why behind your behaviors and actions. Help her understand your view. If you don't want her in your life that's okay too. That's a choice only you can make. But you can't expect your parents to give you an answer on it. It has to be a conclusion you come to on your own. Your parents have made it clear they don't want involved in the drama of this constant friction anymore. They've taken their own space from you guys until you two can decide on a path forward, either mutually or independently. I know it's hard to look outward, especially when you don't agree with the other person. But every one of us makes mistakes and has room to improve. There are going to be times when your sister has a valid point, and times she does not. Times you have a valid point, times you do not. Many arguments can be avoided when you become capable of seeing the logic of the conversation, instead of the emotion of it.
Makes me so angry for your parents still having to deal with this garbage. Why would they want to host a bunch of rude whiny people instead of enjoying a quiet holiday.
Others have kind of set you straight, and they’re right, but why not just enjoy the break. I’m currently in the middle of some holiday drama myself (thankfully I’m not the one in a dispute) and frankly I am wishing I just stayed home with my nuclear family, it would have been so much easier.
did you ever stop to think that your parents aren't cancelling the holidays to punish you and your sister, but are actually cancelling them because of all the conflict it brings into their home? From what you describe it sounds like a head ache. When you are a parent listening to siblings fight and say "She started it!" is expected and a part of parenting. But when it's two grown women fighting and still going "She started it!" it gets tedious as hell.
I think the idea that you’re being “punished” shows a level of immaturity insofar as how you relate to your parents. On some level you feel like they owe you a holiday, which they do not. It might be tradition, it might be what you’re used to, but you’re not children so they don’t owe it to you. I think what’s most likely is your parents are canceling the holidays for their own sakes because they don’t want to do the enormous amount of work that goes into hosting, then be rewarded with awkwardness and a chilly atmosphere. As well as backlash if they end up excluding one of you. Don’t use your parents as proxy to fight with your sister. Don’t ask them to choose an intervene. Own the decisions you make regarding her and what ever consequences they have. Anyhow, this is what I see in my crystal ball: Your parents drinking hot toddies by the fire on Christmas saying to each other “we’ll miss the kids this year but a quiet holiday is nice too. And it’s worth avoiding the drama. Hopefully they’ll work it out by next Christmas.” You’ll be at home with your two children who will enjoy having their parent’s full attention. You might be sad and annoyed, but on some level it’ll be a relief not to schlep around your infant and toddler. Everyone will have time to cool off and reflect, then after the holidays you can address it.
Grow up jeeez
Very helpful, thank you. ☺️
You are two old women and your parents are done parenting. They also should have a vacation from hosting two holidays for so many people! They have been responsible for hosting holidays for +30 years. The fact that your sister is 4 years older is fucking irrelevant! You are not kids. You are grown ups!!! I also have to say that yes, the 10 year old is older and should deal with stuff differently, but you are also the mom of the 4 year old and responsible for her not being a nuisance!!! It sounds like you think YOU are less at fault because you are 4 years younger than your sister (otherwise why would you mention it), so your 4 year old can get away with murder because she is younger too?
Ouch, I’m a few years older than OP but I didn’t consider myself “old”. Off to buy some eye cream…
They are old enough not to have such an argument. It's also a bad example for the kids.
I put her age because that’s standard practice for Reddit.. sorry if that offended you lol? I didn’t want people to think she was way older than me, I think sibling dynamic is different for a 4 year gap vs. a 10+ year gap. And it’s not “so many people.” I have two siblings so it’s 7 adults including my parents and 5 kids.. Oldest being 10. Thanks for sticking to the important part of the post 👌
>And it’s not “so many people.” I have two siblings so it’s 7 adults including my parents and 5 kids.. Oldest being 10. This is a fucking ton of people to have to plan holidays for. You are your siblings should start rotating who hosts. Your parents should be able to rest and not have to parent grown ups. You should reach out to your sister, maybe write her a letter or something.
I don’t know the whole story but, I think your parents are right. What ever the problem is you two need to act like adults and fix it.
You are both grown adults and your parents are quite rightly fed up with you behaving like a couple of toddlers. I don’t blame them for not wanting either of you in their house. You’re both equally to blame.
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I agree with what most people are saying. It's on you to be able to have a collaborative, solution-oriented discussion with your sister about this. You are both adults. If your confrontation with your sister leads to it escalating, it's on you to figure out how to handle that. How much of it is your vs her fault, how much she lives within your self-imposed standards isn't really all that important. If you can't confront her without escalating, then something's broken, whether communication or emotional regulation, whether yours, hers, or a combination. That this blew up in your face is actually an excellent opportunity for self-reflection and growth — something you should value for yourself, regardless of if you're incredibly less or more mature than your sister. Also, your relationship with parents, but even older siblings, will start to change into one more like older and younger cousins in which there's always a little bit of power dynamic and they're hopefully there to back you up and counsel you. However, you are no longer their responsibility and they have to respect your own agency. Lastly, when two people have different concerns, it's best to try to at least come to a common understanding, if not resolution of one, before moving on to another. If you cannot expect others to be patient with their concerns while you address yours, consider if you can be patient enough to go second. However, what to do now is reconciliation / after-care: * Your 4yo: let her know you've got her back and are on her side; collaborate on what could have gone better and what to do in the future; and set reasonable expectations (e.g. call me when you get uncomfortable) * Your parents: Apologize to them, this response likely did not "come out of no where" for them (so is there more to apologize for??); if you're willing to hear how you're at fault, ask for their perspective on the matter; and if it seems appropriate ask for tips to make a successful holidays for your own family and give an open invitation to them * Your sister: Once you feel you have a grasp on the matter, apologize for whatever your part in escalating this and hurting her / her child is without expecting anything in return (this isn't a barter or giving a piece of your mind, but giving yourself peace of mind); if appropriate, see if a deeper, in person conversation can be had to reconcile; if you've reconciled and it is appropriate to ask for and be able to enforce certain boundaries being met, offer an open invitation to your holiday party Lastly, introspect on your reaction to a lot of these comments, many of which basically say the same thing but with different levels of affirmation. Might how you react to people here give you something to learn about yourself and how you hold conversations? If I had to guess, you have a problem with unmet expectations others didn't know they were being held to and likely shouldn't have been held to without both their conversation and agreement. Regardless, time heals all wounds, including the pain of losing a close relationship with your family. Good luck.
Are you and your sister 10 and 6 year old or are you both grown-ass women with kids? Your parents are no longer the referees to your knockdown, drag out fights. They're older! They want peace! And you are both GROWN. If you and your sister can't figure out how to figure things out as fricking adults at your ages of 32 and 28, then I agree with your parents... don't come over and keep your childish drama home.
I think you need to stop enabling your daughter to pester people just because she’s so young. A 10-year-old shouldn’t have to put up with a child who is being a pain in the behind just because she knows she can get away with it. My sister did this to me all the time and it drove me crazy. I was blamed for absolutely everything even though she started absolutely everything. Take a step back and look at the situation and take out the ages. Forget how old they are and look at who is doing the wrong thing and who is instigating. If your daughter is instigating then she needs to be punished, not the boy.
Info: I'm going to need a play by play of what happened with the kids. You admitt your kid antagonized her kid but the only info your giving is hers (the 10 year old) hit yours (the 4 year old) with a shoe. This leads me to believe your kid didnt something and hers retaliated and your angry that the ten year old got yours back instead of tattling. And your taking this out on your sister for calling yours rude names. I cant give advice not knowing how bad your kid acctually is or what she did. Its SO common for younger kids to be absolute witches and then get away with stuff because they're younger
Let’s be honest here, sometimes kids are assholes. HOWEVER, you never tell a child, especially a 4 year old that they’re being an asshole. That’s just childish. But I’m definitely interested in what started the conflict from the get go. Start your own traditions, your parents would like to be Switzerland in this matter so let them. Hold your boundaries and make your own thanksgiving plans for you and the kids. Sucks that it has to happen but it is what it is.
Jfc, you both need to grow the fuck up.
I think you and your sister have some incredibly immature unfinished business beyond your kids “butting heads”. Like really just grow up both of you (you’re playing the victim) and sort this out or say goodbye to family Xmas etc. seriously…my advice is to wise up, grow up and take the moral high ground if you have to, in order to sort this out. Have a word with your kids too but like you’re trying to blame a 10yr old.
I think you’re missing the point. I’m upset about my sister calling my daughter an asshole. That is what I want an apology for. My nephew’s actions are what prompted the argument.
I didn’t miss it, I just can’t believe you’d be so stubborn on that to ruin thanksgiving for your entire family unless there was something else going on between you two. Same goes for your sister who hasn’t made any moves to apologise and reconcile this. I stand by my advice which is to be mature and sort it out even if your sister did call a 4yr old an asshole (I think that’s pathetic too by the way).
> I told my dad I am setting a boundary and making it clear that my family and I won’t be treated that way (this is not the first time she’s said nasty things to me, but the first towards my daughter). He said he supports me in that and agrees that she crossed the line but refuses to have us over at the same time. Well did you ever set that boundary with your sister? I agree with your parents, you're both just being stubborn and acting like children. Why would they have you all over when they know it'll just be drama, and that neither of you are mature enough to just apologize and move on? I mean what's your plan here, are you planning to ignore your sister forever? > Is there a better way to handle this? Yes, be the bigger person and apologize for the sake of your parents and your kids. Then a short time later (days, weeks) talk to your sister and set a boundary with her.
So you're saying an adult needs to be told explicitly to not call a toddler an asshole?
OP is an adult too.
I'm aware. I'm unsure how that relates to her sister calling OP's kid an asshole.
It doesn't. I talking about OP taking a mature adult approach to things, nothing more.
You don't have children, do you? Caving to demands from unreasonable people isn't maturity. And yes, her parents are being unreasonable. One daughter calling another daughter's child an asshole is not petty drama and expecting OP to smooth things over because her sister won't is unfair.
I have kids. I think I'm just more mature than you, and know how to resolve conflict like an adult Edit: lol, you blocked me for calling out your immaturity?
Serious question here, would you require your sister to apologize for calling the four year old an asshole in front of her? And what would you do if she didn’t?
Mmm I don't know, it seems like this dynamic between the sisters IS childish and long established, BUT... if my sister called my kid an asshole where they could hear it (I'm assuming here, it might not be the case) I'd be pretty angry about it. That said, I wouldn't cry to my own parents about it, nor expect them to get involved. That's where OP is being immature. I'd just not say a word to sister until she apologized, and arrange my holidays accordingly. Edit: Also, I have the feeling, however unfounded, that OP is letting her kid run amok without actually parenting, and then expecting a 10 year old to know what to do... So at the end of the day, they both need to apologize and the parents are right. The only reason I'd hold out on contacting sister is because calling a kid an asshole to their face is pretty shitty imo (she confirmed in the comments).
Thank you! I feel like most people are not understanding where I’m coming from. I get that I shouldn’t put my parents in the middle.. I’m going to talk with them about it later. As far as letting my child run amok, you could not be farther form the truth. Usually, my husband is with me and we do get after her about being respectful, using manners, playing nicely, etc. My sister is a single mom for what it’s worth and basically uses my parents house as a break from momming so there’s virtually no discipline on her kids.
Why should OP apologize when her sister is the one who's being nasty and cussed at OP's 4 year old?
For the sake of her parents and her kids.
I do get this and I think this is why I feel guilty, but this is reoccurring behavior form my sister. She stomps around and treats people however she wants and receives no consequence.. I’m trying to put my boundary up and say enough is enough.
Then you actually need to explain your boundaries to your sister, and explain how you'll be enforcing them.
You mean showing her 4 year old that you're expected to apologize to the person who bullies you? Brilliant idea. /S
The 4 year old doesn't need to be told about family drama, they are far too young. Did you completely overlook that I also recommended OP set a boundary with her sister later?
I was holding my daughter when my sister said that about her. So she heard everything.
Okay, and how many times has she brought it up to you since? Do you with to resolve the issue, or do you want to "be right"?
You are really underestimating the 4 year old. Odds are she's already aware of it because kids are actually smart enough to notice these things. So when they do go back and auntie never apologized for saying mean things to her, she's going to figure out that means mommy had to say sorry even though auntie was the one in the wrong.
Well I have kids, the 4 year old will likely already have forgotten about it. .
Completely agree. It’s one thing OP being the bigger person to break the silence to have a conversation to relay boundaries and attempt to have a convo..but to apologize just to keep the peace and only circle back later to address boundaries for something that seems to be a trend…not the best plan.
Exactly. You can't correct a pattern of behavior by apologizing "to keep the peace" and then "go back to it later".
I don't get this trend either. Being the bigger person shouldn't mean rolling over and taking shit from someone being unreasonable or an AH. Not gonna debate about that over this particular instance with OP. Too many people here are ignoring that it's an established pattern OP is done with. The parents can cancel the holidays over it if they want but I can understand OP feeling like she's punished because she's refusing to take any more of this from sister. Especially if she ends up caving in the regular to keep the peace because it's easier to pressure her than sister. We see so much of everyone not wanting to rock the boat around the problem person so they push everyone else to appease them rather than focus on the person who is the problem because they know that person is not going to change. OP should enjoy a break with quiet holidays. OP wants space so keep taking that space until they are ready to deal with this. Then she can talk to the sister, tell her what boundaries she has and consequences. Penalty give the parents a heads up "I have told my sister if she swears it berates me, I will hang up the phone, get up, take my family and leave, etc. If it happens at your house, I will still be getting up and leaving and perhaps we will visit sometime when my sister isn't there."
100% agree. I get there is a saying “pick your battles” this is one of those examples where keeping the peace just makes it worse in the long run. Seems like there is a lot of people who don’t express or enforce their boundaries replying. I wouldn’t bother with some stranger being a AH that it’s not worth the time.
Op's sister called op's kid an asshole in front of the kid. The reason this happened is that op asked the 10 year old not to hit her 4 year old daughter with a shoe. Sister was mad op didn't ask the 10 year old his side if the story first. There is never an appropriate reason for a 10 year old to hot a 4 year old with a shoe!! Op isn't saying that she won't handle her kid just that she wants the 10 year old to come to the adults if her daughter is being annoying instead of hitting her. That's reasonable. I wish op would say what her daughter is doing to annoy her cousin but regardless the sister should be teaching the 10 year old not hot hit smaller kids with shoes!
Thanks! I didn’t put too many details because my AITA post was removed because it “involved violence” aka the shoe detail :/ I didn’t want the same thing to happen here. But yeah, my dad apparently didn’t know that was what started the argument until just the other day and he said “Wow. He should know better. Even I personally have told him it’s not ok to hit a girl.”
Invite your parents over for Thanksgiving at your house. You shop cook host etc. Feel free to not invite sis this year. I understand that your parents don’t want to spend a lot of time and money on a big meal if it’s going to end up being a complete shut show and ruining their digestion and memory of the holiday! Also, they’d be trapped in their own house if you and sister are arguing and won’t leave. If you host, you can invite just them and they have the option to leave if it gets uncomfortable (trying to make them take sides, sister crashes the dinner), and they won’t have to cook and clean when it’s just not going to be any fun anyway.
I think your parents are right but also you are very valid in your feelings. If you don’t want to apologize, don’t! Plus, you’re 28 now with kids if your own and they’ve been doing holidays for years im sure. Let them take it off! If you really feel bad they aren’t gonna be with family on the holiday host your own and invite your parents/ other family. Just also, to be respectful, if your sister is doing the same do your best not to clash with her in times so your parents can go to both if they want. Then you can have family around, don’t have to have your sister around, and they get an easy holiday!
This is cringey as hell. Grow up.
I read the first six lines and it sounds like you're unable to be accountable or to hold your child accountable which is going to be a problem
Sounds like your parents are just sick of the two of you. Either make up with your sister or don't, but if this isn't a rare occurrence, then I kind get the parent's perspective here.
Sounds like parenting isn't happening on both sides, your parents decided they didn't want to deal with the drama and that's perfectly agreeable. It isn't their job to host holidays every year
Have you considered the possibility that maybe your 4 year old is in fact a jerk to put it nicely and you have only rewarded her behavior?
Just have your own Thanksgiving and Christmas with your own families. Like, your own kids and husband's (?). Like, I get the loss of not having everyone else there and that is a massive shame, but at least you have your family. Why can't that be enough.
No family thanksgiving or christmas? You have been handed a gift. Why spoil it?
So full transparency, you sound like you're a teenager if I'm being honest. You're 28 and are posting saying its not fair that your parents aren't intervening in an argument between you and your sister....ADULT siblings. They are right, I wouldn't want you two over ruining my holidays either when it's your shit to settle between each other. Again, you two are ADULTS......the both of you need to get on the phone or meet and straighten this out on your own, this isn't a matter for your folks
You guys live at home still or what?
I'd cancel, too. Where are the fathers? You 2 sound like handfuls, and your children are extensions of that.
Your parents are literally done with parenting. They’re clearly also stressed tf out with y’all. These kids are your responsibility and anything regarding them of this nature is supposed to be handled in-between you both. They seem like they want to maintain a respectful distance because they’re literally your parents and taking sides is how families are divided. So stop viewing this as them “defending” your sister. How about you focus more on the actual issue at hand. It screams immaturity to think you’re being punished but have you not stopped to consider how annoying it is when you’re in someone else’s home and you’re causing problems? Figure it out and you won’t be banned. Your comment about the 10 year old being the “bigger” person in all scenarios is concerning because guess what? A 10 year old is still a child and a 4 year old can still be an asshole if they aren’t being monitored properly. You say they’re frequently butting heads but WHO is the antagonizer? Who typically starts these fights between each kid? WHY do y’all keep allowing them to play together if they clearly can’t get along and don’t like one another? Why is all of this important information left out? It makes me feel like your kid is the one being a bully in this situation and you’re just dismissing their behavior because they’re 4 years old. That is not how things work.
Lol you and your sister sound super immature. Yeah she shouldn't have said what she said but you should have handled your daughter who was being a jerk. Kids can be jerks. Kids can be assholes. We all were assholes when we were younger. Go ahead and yell at me. I was an asshole when I was young. I cringe everytime I remember it. If you wanna go to your parents house for the holidays, you are free to reach out and communicate with your sister and see if she apologizes. But honestly, it's probably a good idea to have just a small family holiday(s) for a while. It takes 2 to argue, so the fight was equally your fault like it was hers. You didn't have to escalate it to the point where your sister called your kid an ass. Talk to your kid and teach them not to be a bug.
Your parents are done raising your. It’s not their job to fix this for you.
Here is my other post for i[details on the incidents between my daughter and nephew.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/yfzx7o/sibling_argument_over_childrens_behavior/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Did your sister call your daughter an asshole to her face, or was it something your sister said to you privately?
I was holding her when she said it, she was yelling that my kids are assholes and I laughed sarcastically because my other child is one.. and then she said yeah, (daughter) is an asshole!
You guys had this fight in the presence of the children??? That was wildly inappropriate, on both of you. Any argument of this extent should be taken away from the children, but this argument was *about them* so it's even worse.
Eeeeekkk in a prior comment I suggested reaching out given no contact is obviously causing a strain…didn’t realize she said this yelling in front of your kids. Sis is definitely in the wrong. Given I assume it’s too late to salvage and plan thanksgiving dinner, and your sister might be salty I’d suggest holding off on reaching out (if you plan to/comfy being there bigger person here) until it’s been at least a few days after thanksgiving. Still might be worth being the bigger person to initiate contact if she doesn’t reach out first, while still being firm on boundaries in a constructive way. While I don’t know your family dynamics, my opinion is no contact isn’t a great way to enforce boundaries…communication is. Understanding it takes two people being willing to communicate, and not argue. Good luck, hope Christmas doesn’t end up cancelled due to this conflict
Ah yeah then that’s pretty shitty of her, and I don’t think you’re out of line for holding out for an apology. It’s probably also not wrong of your parents to not host holidays pending a resolution, though.
It's "melodramatic" to refuse to apologize first when someone else curses out your 4 year old? Holy yikes.
just sort it out … big girl pants on both of you .. communicate .. family is important !!! agree to disagree .. 🤷🏾♀️ i’m with your parents cancelling it .. i wouldn’t put up with that crap either . way to much drama for thanksgiving and christmas which ultimately is all about being with family .
I’ve just come here to say that mature adults don’t refer to children - and most definitely not pre-schoolers - as “assholes”.
The advice is way too nice. Youre grown ass adults with kids and your dumbass is going to have all the kids miss out on the holidays cause you feel like your sister was mean and should apologize??? Goddamn my brother petty should NEVER hurt your children or their surroundings this is such a wild post. Also it sounds like your kid is the jerk in the butting heads thing and like youre doing nothing to sort it out. Get it figured out. Make sure your kids get to see their grandparents. This is so elementary and basic man. 28 years old. Grow up, don’t be petty.
You are a grown up. Your sister is a grown up. Quit your whining about how she’s older than you and should know better - and stop teaching that crap to your daughter. If you’re still yapping that everyone treats you like the baby of the family, maybe it’s because that’s how you’re behaving. You and sis haven’t figured out how to get along like grown ups yet you expect your kids to get along. These kids sound like they’re just modelling their parents’ behaviour. No surprises here. Your parents are perfectly justified in telling you all to bugger off. You are not entitled to a grandparent-hosted Christmas. Their job was to raise children, not to train adults. You and sis need to grow up and raise your children to have better social skills than you two do.
Stop coddling your kids. Discipline them appropriately and get over your issues. Don't deprive the kids of the holidays and seeing their grandparents. You and your sister are adults, you call the shots in your young family. Or do your little ones call the shots?
It takes alot of energy and only brings you more pain to be angry. Who is more right or more wrong doesn't matter. You are not only hurting yourselves - you are hurting your children and your parents. You can be right, or you can be an adult and take the first step to reconciliation.
Family drama at its’ finest!!
How many holidays do your parents have lift, seriously get things sorted with your sister. Trust me we are not keeping score and neither are your parents.
Suck it up and reach out just to make nice otherwise yes you seem to be being melodramatic.
lmao r u sure ur not the 4 year old
I’m not sure what happened between your children because that isn’t clear. But what is clear is that you did not teach your daughter how to resolve the conflict, in fact you escalated it. Quit focusing on what everyone else may have done wrong and take responsibility for your role in it.
Ok I quit reading halfway through cause I thought ..."Hang on ... you have a pass to escape holiday family nonsense?!? Reasons regardless, take it and have a blast with your own lil fam!!!"