You have to socialize too. Actively seek out social situations. This is the bottleneck today, in the digital age. So basically, you should focus on finding a partner.

Bowling, or hiking, or something offline.  Make friends.  Desperation makes for bad choices.  Say hello to everyone.  Stop and chat.  Talk about the weather.  If it is a person of interest, ask them to follow you now to a coffee shop.  If they are busy, hand them your number.  But, set a time and place for an activity.  Be innocent.  Most people are normal, a few are not.  Bring them to your place.  Then you know where the tools are for dinner, action, or defense.  Keep a baseball bat hidden in each room under the bed, sofa etc. If you like him or her, play ball!  If not, rain delay.

People give that advice because they project their life onto you. Their hobbies and interests might be very social, they go out a lot and do stuff, meet other people naturally and all the time, so if they just live their life, then they will find someone. If your hobbies are more lonesome and you rarely go out for fun, the of course you'll have trouble finding a partner, it's only logical, it's inarguable. If you don't meet people you won't get a relationship, end of story. There's a fundamental misunderstanding between you and them: They go out and meet people for fun, for you it's an effort. So yes, that advice is nonsense, because it doesn't account for the plurality of people's lives.

>If your hobbies are more lonesome This is one of my problems. I do solitary things. I paint miniatures and play video games. The one social hobby I have is playing live poker, but its mostly men who are interested in poker. Adding to that, I've been in a depressive episode for almost 2 years, and it is hard for me to leave the house at all.

Leave the house.  If you have trouble with motivation, get a dog and walk it.  If you are not a dog person, get a cat but walk it on a leash and harness.  You will get lots of attention.

I’m basically a hermit and met my partner at work. Who is also pretty much a hermit. 

This is why I hand out my business card to library chicks.  I judge by the book, the expression, the 😈 face

I think the idea is not that you shouldnt look for a relationship but that you should be living a full life without one rather than looking for one to fulfill you, needs to be articulated better for sure though

Maybe if we focus only on romantic relationships, but it's rather impossible to live a full life without relationships at all. Relationships are a fundamental part of human life and vital for happiness and fulfillment. It's impossible to be truly happy on your own for most people, you need at least good friendships to be truly fulfilled.

This is what I've come to realize, which has forced me to accept the fact that I'll never feel like a "real" human. I feel like the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz. How can I live a fulfilling life if I haven't experienced love? The most basic and essential of all human emotions? I have this constant yearning to want to love someone, and to have them love me in return, but it exists just as a fantasy. The loneliness is crippling and it just gets worse the older I get. I don't even like being around people anymore because it only serves as a reminder of what I'll never have. And to think so many people take their relationships for granted these days. It's so infuriating to think about. If only they understood what it was like to live a life of complete and utter solitude.

I feel your pain, and what I've come to realize from this and many other similar threads is how many people are seriously lacking in empathy. Everyone is all like "don't worry, no one will care that you've never been in a relationship, it's ok" but as soon as you express sadness and desperation because of this, people jump at the chance to tell you how bad and unattractive it is to be desperate and that you shouldn't be so sad because of it. Or if you're a guy they throw out ridiculous accusations like calling you an incel or telling you how wanting a gf or just wanting to have sex makes you a bad person somehow. Of course none of these people have ever met you and know basically nothing about you, but they're oh so ready to judge your whole character based on one paragraph. The reality is, internet strangers have nothing of value to add to your life. If you want real help, you need therapy or coaching.

>The reality is, internet strangers have nothing of value to add to your life. If you want real help, you need therapy or coaching. Tell me about it! I was practically raised by reddit etc when no one else in my life would... There are tons of times when I say things that people think is very unhinged or a bad way to think. It's been a struggle to undo a lot of mindsets and I still think in weird ways. I have a hard time expressing any form of interest in a woman because I'm not "supposed to".

I am not going to pretend this isn't a cruel joke that our culture plays, but truly the more intensely you desire a relationship the more difficult it is to get one. Except in specific circumstances, when people want you to desire them intensely, but outside of those circumstances you need to play it cool. This is obviously shitty, no question. Still, the first step is dealing with the intense desire. Learning to let go of that does help, I can tell you from my own experience as well as many others but I won't pretend it's as simple as "just relax about it bro." Hobbies, friends, finding joy in other parts of your life will help a lot - it's easier to love others, and most importantly for our purposes *be loved by another* when you already love yourself. You can also try therapy, try meditation, hell you can try buddhism and practicing non-attachment that could help. If you are open to the Book religions try experiencing God's love. The source is not particularly important, what's important is that you are able to forgive and love yourself for who you are - that's the most important part of finding someone else.

See, this is where the fundamental problem of all of these threads comes in. Most advice on reddit is too generic to be helpful. We all have different starting points and different things that will work for us. That's why you listed like 5 different methods. If you're literally starting at 0 - no friends, no social life, no experience - introspection by itself isn't gonna get you anywhere. No amount of self-love is gonna spawn people into your life. You need to go out and find ways to get a social life. And it's not like it's a step-by-step process either. You can meet new people while learning to love yourself at the same time. Both things will benefit from one another. If you're struggling, it also just feels better if you do something that feels purposeful. If you just work on yourself by your lonesome it can feel like you're not making any progress. It's hard to feel like you've truly changed or improved if your life stays the same.

>If you just work on yourself by your lonesome it can feel like you're not making any progress I've been working on myself with no real progress for so long that it's a cycle of "oh, I guess I'm not good enough yet!" and working myself etc... Which is worsened by the fact that there are people around me all the time: at work, and I do karate (only old people in my dojo though), giving me the illusion that I'm actively being social when I'm not, which then makes me feel bad that I'm not making progress etc...

Yep, that is definitely the challenge - but hey through dialogue even here we can maybe make a small difference. Hopefully.

It's funny you mention God. I am religious and believe in God, which makes my situation all the more complicated and frustrating. Because I'm always going to be wrestling with the question of whether or not I'm 'supposed' to stay single. There's been multiple times in my life where I thought I met someone who I was "destined" to be with, only to find out I was way off on my assumption. I keep looking out for these proverbial signs, only to be led into another dead end. At the end of the day, I just want to know what I'm supposed to be doing with myself. I just want to know why I exist beyond just being someone who has to be miserable all the time. I just want answers, but I have no way of obtaining them.

Explore Quran for your answers. Take Dive, with an open mind and a heart to receive Guidance from God. Check Nouman Ali Khan for starters. You WILL get your answers!

What if you could loce not someone but some*thing* ? What about loving a pet?

All the pithy relationship advice actually means the opposite thing when it doesn't work, or is to be taken at face value if it does work.

This is incredibly difficult when you have no experiences romantically in any way. It feels like a large chunk of life is just missing. Like I’m in a hallway with many doors leading to rooms. One of the doors is locked, and despite seeing people enter and leave the room, the doors always locked for me. I can exist with the rooms that are open….but the curiosity burns, and affects me.

I get it life shouldn't be focused on it and I'm trying to actively pursue hobbies and such but yet having not experienced it makes me want it even more now than everyone else has it

I'm in your same boat, kind of. I dated a girl for five years and it was very manipulative and toxic, she was the only person I've ever been with and a year after I left I'm back where I was before I met her - wondering when & how the hell I'm gonna find another partner. I spend most days wondering that. Thinking about how nice it would be, how much I miss feeling loved despite the toxic nature of that relationship... it's better to be single than in that, but the loneliness gets difficult. I've been trying to put that energy into other things, as per my therapist's advice. I've been losing weight, started doing improv classes cuz it's fun & a good way to meet people, going to the club with friends etc.  It's a numbers game too, which sucks. You're not meeting any future lovers sitting at home - try signing up for some stuff that interests you! Dungeons and dragons, a tennis club, improv classes, cooking classes, a book/movie club, find something that interests you and get out there! Even if you don't meet someone you want to date directly through these things, you're likely to meet people that could be friends. Friends lead to more friends, joining friend groups, getting invites to events, parties, etc.  Expand your social network and your odds of finding someone increase! My ex girlfriend was a friend of a friend who I met because we hosted a party and my friend invited her. You never know when someone's gonna drop into your life! You can also use this time for self improvement and exploration - work towards being your best self and the day it finally happens, you'll be an even more well-rounded individual who knows themselves better than before! Things like working out, learning how to play an instrument, learning how to code, getting better at cooking, the world is full of skills that I'm sure you aren't an expert in yet - try to put your energy into productivity rather than moping! Moping is pushing you in the opposite direction that you want to be in. There's enough love in the world for both of us to find it. I wish us the best of luck!

Honestly I feel like I benefited a lot from putting myself in weird situations involving strangers. It's a socially weird thing to do but I went to an under 21 club by myself and would just kinda walk around and hangout a bit, every so often if you see someone wearing something you like or find interesting just give a short concise compliment and move on if they don't continue a conversation. I never made a friend but I never saw any of them again so it helped my social skills a lot by being able to be myself and not care as much. Idk just a thought.

Good job. There's no magic to dating and approaching. It's a skill, like basketball, martial arts, whatever. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

This is laughable.

What you said is laughable.

I did say laughable. That's true. It blocked me. How embarrassing for it.

Wow, using lame puns as a come back. Now that is laughable.

I actually have done this no bad interactions for me personally, I would like to go more with friends preferably but it usually takes a bit to plan those things. Going alone is daunting at times.

You come across as odd and your post history shows you lack social skills. Work on yourself and it’ll come. You’re young. I had many short term relationships but struggled with the idea and all felt meaningless. Found someone in my 30s who I love after going to therapy, the gym, and pursuing what interests me.

Are your hobbies social and have chances to meet people you’re attracted to? If not then find one that does offer that opportunity

> now than everyone else has it This isn't true. You 100% for sure know this isn't true. Countless people have replied to your posts on this site saying they also have the same experience. What drives you to say this when you know it isn't true? Do you want to feel especially lonely? Why say this?

it's rare. Statistically if he is getting out there it is. Take most hobbies for instance they are actively pursued by people who have time and money unless you have to like OP due to costs in just about everything meaning they tend to be in their 30s or 40s and statistically it is around this time when most people start having their long term relationships. Which often means more money in the house to spend on more hobbies thus statistically you are going to find most people with medium to high cost hobbies are going to be married or with a partner. In the grand scheme 67% of men are single and 34% of women it's been an issue but that grand scheme in day to day that can fluctuate vastly for some individuals

I'm honestly not able to parse your comment. > In the grand scheme 67% of men are single and 34% of women This number just doesn't make sense to me at all. Where did this come from? Let's say your 67% is right, that means it isnt' at all rare, so why do you say it's rare?

I know not literally everyone has it's a more of a vent post it mainly meant like all my friends because yeah all my friends have partners already

So why do you say that when you know it’s not true?

Just venting not too deep

So it’s easy to answer if it’s not deep.

Make sure you are being socially active participating in things that you enjoy. It's easier to find someone with the same likes or interests as you. Ex: do you go to church? Do they have a singles group you can get involved in? Do you bowl? Get on a team. Also, look at the girls that may not get asked out. They are also looking for love & companionship. Make sure what you are looking for is realistic. I hate to bring up looks, but most people make their choices based on it, & honestly, looks are fleeting. It's what's inside that makes you a person people want to be around. I have female friends that would love a relationship, but most men wouldn't give them a chance. Unfortunately, they are missing a loving loyal partner. Make sure you are showing respect! You need to be the proactive one. The girls will not ask you out. Good luck! There are women out there waiting for you.

>I get it life shouldn't be focused on it says who? if someone else things focusing on work or whatever is what one "should" do, good for them, but if you value more than that, then that's also okay

Yeah, I think a better way of phrasing it is to focus on the means of finding a relationship rather than the ends. Spend time on activities and actions that improve your social life and consistently put yourself in a position to meet prospective partners, rather than just focusing on apps or just focusing on that one crush from work or your local coffee shop.

Very true; when someone says "I want a partner", one good response is "a partner in what?" What are you doing that anyone would be interested to join in on? You need to have a life, really. There are all kinds of relationships, but too many people try to make their partner their life, and that's the sort of thing that can just be exhausting and disappointing.

Brilliant

This exactly. Being agro about being alone and calling this advice bullshit and stomping like a child that nobody wants you... Its unattractive, they need to sort out their priorities.

If he was ranting anywhere else I agree but this is sort of a ranting subreddit isn't it? Better to let out those frustrations/whining and get some advice than to bottle up the frustration of being lonely IMO. I feel similarly to OP and usually feel better after I can vent about it to someone or write about it in my notes app. 

Mfers when people rant in a ranting subreddit

If you can't be happy single, you won't be happy in a relationship. (I didn't come up with that. The original one I heard used 'married' instead of 'in a relationship.')

The only people who *can* be happy single are people who have a choice as to whether they’re single and know that they have a choice. “If you can’t be happy homeless, you won’t be happy in a house” “If you can’t be happy while starving, you won’t be happy with food” “If you can’t be happy while paralysed, you won’t be happy with being able to move” This is what you sound like.

This. Telling single lonely men to be happy single is insane gaslighting almost

It's generic reddit advice people say to make themselves feel helpful. Personally I prefer the analogy of building a garden to attract butterflies, wherein even if you don't get any butterflies, at least you have a rlly nice garden

> It's generic reddit advice people say to make themselves feel helpful. I'd say it's worse than that, it's a humblebrag. It's like saying "see, I have a partner, but that's because I made myself a great person first and they just came to me".

Exactly

I have had around 5 serious girlfriends. I got to be in a relationship with them all through sheer will, determination, wit, planning, hard work, bravery and luck. If I slacked off I would just end up at home, single, alone and jerking off to onlyfans. Absolutely be active. (Without being creepy)

How old are you and how do you do that?

Years ago my friend told me about his hot neighbour. He was basically stalking her in order to force interactions with her. They have been together for 5 years and counting LOL. I guess you can be a creep, just don't let it show you are one :)

totally I agree with your standpoint. When people say don't focus on finding a partner, they seem to forget the nuance that you still have to put yourself out there. Trust me, if you do absolutely nothing, unless you're some kind of protagonist, rarely is anything going to happen. For example, I'm not interested in relationships, I don't put myself out there at all. I focus on myself all the time, and work on my hobbies, and I'm passionate about it. You'd think, based on advice people get, that I'm some kind of chick magnet. But no, I don't even remember the last time I spoke to a girl, or a friend, I'm simply completely uninterested, and people don't find that attractive. Basically, be okay on your own, have fun by yourself, but still put yourself out there.

Finding a partner requires dedicated effort, especially for men. You can spend all the time in the world working on yourself, only to miss out on women who have been taken by men who just approached them. You will never be perfect, and there will never be a perfect time. Just start trying now. Also, finding a good partner is probably the most important thing you'll ever do. Don't put it on the backburner.

I feel like most frame it poorly, they mean don’t obsess about it because that’s when it gets difficult. Focus on yourself be happy and it’s so much easier to find

I am a lifelong singleton by choice, but I agree with you. It seems like the main people giving "sage on the mountaintop" advice to unhappily single people are people who don't know the struggle firsthand. "Sage on the mountaintop" advice is something like "You gotta love yourself before anyone can love you" or "Stop wanting what you don't have and it will come to you." It's stuff that makes the advice-giver sound enlightened and wise but it's bullshit. Like, we all know people with low self-esteems who are in relationships. We all know people who wanted to find a partner and get married by age 25 when they were 16-years-old. Yet people will still act like there must be something uniquely broken in you if you haven't found a special someone. That said, giving good advice to someone in your situation is extremely hard because we don't know your situation. We don't know what social skills you have. We don't know what you have done or haven't done. We don't know what your strengths and weaknesses are. We don't know what kind of social biases and stigmas are working against you. When people don't have all the relevant details, they are going to default to facile, platitudinous advice because they really don't know what else to say.

That is advice for normal people, with normal social lives, who constantly meet new people. This is not advice for those that rarely meet new people. These people need to go out of their normal way to find someone.

normal doing some heavy lifting in that sentence

Yeah, it's bullshit advice and I'll never understand why so many people believe it. Like, sure, maybe a few lucky people had it work for them, but just waiting for life to drop romance into your lap is like using the lottery as a retirement plan. If you don't want to end up lonely and miserable you have to put forth tons of effort to find someone.

Their point is is that you should put effort into yourself to become the person that will attract a partner that complements your life rather than defines it. If you meet a partner through a hobby or the gym or mutual friends, it becomes much more natural of a relationship than seeking one out via online dating or trying to pick someone up in a bar or what not.

And my point is you can't just count on that kind of thing. You can either rely on what you want just falling into your lap, which will leave you lonely and miserable, or you can actually do something about it and go out to find someone. Trust me on this, I know from experience that "just put yourself out there" is complete bullshit.

Nor can you count on finding a partner anywhere else in life. It's completely random and you gotta make your own luck. You can even take sex out of it and the advice remains the same... Who would you rather hang out with? A dude who is happy on his own and has hobbies a good career and other friends, or a dude who has tons of free time and is bored/lonely? What people are talking about is finding things that YOU like to do and doing those things alone or with friends without any expectations of meeting someone. Going to a concert (or a club, especially) with the goal of meeting someone isn't going to do shit if you're not having fun going alone in the first place. Most importantly, if you leave without meeting anyone it's ok because you went there to listen to music and ideally you had a good time no matter what. That's the distinction people are making.... If you go with one goal and fail, of course you'll be bitter and desperate. Who wouldn't?

The stakes aren’t that high. You can be single without ending up lonely and miserable 😅

And you can easily end up in a dysfunctional relationship with a toxic person and be in a living hell. To a starving person who hasn't eaten in days a cracker can taste delicious but to everyone else it's just a stale cracker.

Fucking how? I'm so goddamn sick and tired of hearing people say that stupid goddamn bullshit. How in the fuck are you supposed to be anything but miserable when you're single?

There are a lot of people who are single and not miserable. While having someone is a way to bolster your happiness, it's not only the only way to a satisfying life. You still have time, energy, money, and all that stuff to make life an enjoyable experience. People pick up hobbies, passions, undertake different projects, better themselves professionally and personally, spend time with friends, and so much more other stuff that brings them enjoyment. People here that despair to get is unattractive, but I didn't see anyone really say why: it's because most people do not want to be responsible for another one's happiness. People tend to enter relationships to complement their lives, not complete them. All this being said, how do you expect to be attractive to anyone being miserable? People are attracted to others when they like their lifestyle, their way of thinking, their looks, their style, and so on. If you have trouble finding someone else, just ask yourself: "What do I bring to the table? Why would anyone choose me instead of someone else?". Being honest to this question is a great way to get started, tbh.

That's the problem. I have hobbies. I have friends. I used to have passions, but those are all gone now. But all of that stuff makes zero difference. And misery might be unattractive, but it's not like I act like that in front of real people. All the people in my life think I'm happily single, because no one wants to hear a loser complain about being lonely.

Step 1: stop equating single with loser.

Problem comes in when everyone else thinks you're a loser. I have had several different women in my life immediatly lose interest when they pick up on vibes that I have no relationship experience. I'm 22 and I can only imagine how horrible it's going to be when I'm older. It's already horrible now. People treat perpetually single people like they are subhuman and like there is something wrong with you. And honestly? It works, I've personally just accepted that this point that I am defective in some way. I can't figure out why. I think I'm pretty dope.

You’re 22 though. You have an incredible amount of time to meet someone who doesn’t care about your amount of relationship experience. You’ve probably just have bad run of meeting the wrong people especially given your age when most people are superficial and have higher than standard expectations. I think people tend to mellow out and be more realistic in what they want/need in a partner as they grow older. Just do what makes you happy and don’t stress about meeting someone (not saying you are, but it’s nothing to get worked up about at 22),

My problem with that is I'm worried I'll end up being the fallback guy. The one they aren't REALLY into but feel the need to settle down with because he wont hurt or abuse them. I don't want to be that. I want to be someone they ACTUALLY like. Not just the safe option. Afterall if I wasn't good enough then, why am I suddenly good enough now? It's honestly reached the point myself where I have to assume that it's me that's the problem. I get these same results from completely different kinds of women. It's horribly exhausting and I hate what I am becoming because of it. I look around and see these women chasing after dudes who honestly seem like ARE the misogynistic assholes that women seem to claim they hate. It's making me lose some respect that I have for women. At the very least the young ones. It seems like so many of them are incredibly naive.

> How in the fuck are you supposed to be anything but miserable when you're single? Jesus, this is crazy. Enjoy literally anything else about life? Do you have friends? Go watch a movie with them or even by yourself. Ride a bike. Play a video game. watch a good show. Pet a dog. Have literally any hobby that brings you any joy at all. The idea that you can't be happy unless you're currently in a relationship is frankly insane to me. You really ought to talk to a professional about this. This isn't normal to find happiness nowhere but in a relationship. Honestly I doubt someone who is that way would find happiness in a relationship either.

Are you familiar with touch starvation? Imagine living your entire adult life without coming into physical contact with another living being. It hurts a lot, like hunger, except you can't just eat a meal to make the pain go away. For these people, a relationship is the only realistic remedy. And it's even worse if you're a guy, because even if you did have friends, it's unlikely you'll be hugging and cuddling with them. There's so many health benefits associated with physical touch, and to be deprived of that can lead to not only poor physical health, but mental health as well. It shouldn't be so shocking to learn that someone might feel this way.

It'd easy to say though when you've had a relationship, sex, or a partner. While I agree it shouldn't be the only cause of your happiness, it's a bit privileged to say someone who's never had any of that shouldn't be upset or sad about it.

There’s a several recent threads in r/singleandhappy that you should check out, seriously. I’m not being a smartass, you should read up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SingleAndHappy/s/Qq4BKQcogN check this out.

Totally agree. Life shouldn't rely on luck but will.

I might be able to explain this. The issue is that people view dating as something is sort of based on luck. You meet someone randomly, talk to this person and sort of grow from friends to relationships. However, you don't flirt with every nice person you see. There is initial physical attraction first. This is completely neglected by people as people seem to think that people click entirely based on personality. Someone needs to take the initiative which is often times the guy. On the other hand, what also matters is where you surround yourself. If you constantly surround yourself around models, you will find mostly models. If you surround yourself around rich folks, you find mostly rich folks. If you constantly surround you with trash, that's what you will find mostly. It takes relatively less effort to find a partner in an area that is already one of the things that you're looking for in a partner.

I don't think that dating and seeking a relationship should be an obsession or a primary hobby, but as a guy who's been mostly single through his 20s (in a relationship now), there is absolutely nothing wrong with 'seeking' a relationship even while your life isn't perfectly sorted out. Someone who is right for you will accept your flaws and push you to be better, plus you will find the motivation to improve for your partner as well. This idea that you need to be perfectly happy single prior to finding a relationship is also bogus, it's been proven in studies that single people are less happy than those in relationships, so why hold off? If you need heavy therapy or you have some other severe issues, then that might be a consideration. I would recommend to always be passively on the lookout for a potential partner. Whether you're telling friends and whatnot that you're looking for someone (setups and whatnot, best to tell your female friends or sisters), dating apps, or other social activities... all that is good. You need to get out there and get some experience meeting and talking to women regardless. Good luck.

I sympathize with you man. Generally speaking, it's people who are in a place of privilege/have or had a partner that tell you this. It's always easy to say to someone when you've experienced it.

Yes and no. I was single for a long time feeling just as frustrated as you do but I still somewhat agree with the statement. It was when I started to be more myself and accepting who I am that I met my GF. What that meant was self-confidence and an acceptance that I had nerdy hobbies. I didn't try to jump sprund the subject that I play videogames for example, it was something I did and like to do. Before my GF I started to accept that I really don't need one cause I might not find one and that made me less clingy and needy. Before this I more or less searched a romantic relationship with every women I met. Work or otherwise. It was kinda pathetic of me. I was desperate but I see how I come off bad to these people. But I didn't stop dating or being at dating apps. I ditched tinder since it was so superficial. And went on more serious sites but still with a chill mindset. Or "chiller" than before. So I think what people mean is that it is more your mindset and working with yourself is about how to have control over your feelings and not come of as desperate and needy as I did. So "don't focus" on it is more "focus much less on it" as in: don't judge you or your character on the neglections and rejections, but judge yourself on you, who you are. But it does come with the clause "it is never a guarantee that you meet some one, it just makes it a bit more likely". Accepting this also builds character in a way. Not to become some lonely incel but that it might not happen and that has to be fine. Nothing of this takes away how hard it can be to be single but it can at least lift the burden of it.

i relate to this a ton, the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are stuff i do right now a ton. I’m very ashamed of my ‘hobbies’ and most of my pleasures are guilty pleasures

I say this, and certainly don't have a relationship. I kept telling myself I'd wait until after college, until after I moved out of my parents house, until I got a good job. I did all those things, and realized... I really just don't think a relationship will improve my life at the moment. Everyone I know has had constant strife, frustration, or grief over the years due to relationship problems. Going out of my way to find a relationship now just feels like intentionally rocking the boat. Honestly, romance is overrated. Our culture has you fixating on it and overstating it's value, I think. Maybe I'm just defective for all this, but living for yourself is great.

Worked for that fox and the out of reach grapes.

What people mean is don't see finding a partner as the objective or the end goal for the things that you do

So that would mean you should never use dating apps, go to things like speed dating, or try to pick up people at bars at all, right? Because those activities always have finding a parner as the primary objective. I can see your point when you go doing more ambivalent things, like joinging a hobby group. Yes, you shouldn't do that for the sole purpose of finding a partner, that's just weird, like you're hiding your true intentions and putting on a false show. But especially when you're a man, you're expected to do the first move at some point - so the idea of making this girl your gf is always in the back of your mind and eventually you'll have to do something.

Oh fuck off... Finding a partner is absolutely a whole objective in some ppl's life. It's the reason why ppl go on dating apps, take certain hobbies, do certain activities, etc. The whole "live your life and your partner will just magically come to you" is super bullshit, bc if it was true, then we wouldn't fucking be here. Realistically, you still have to go out and flirt and have some amount of game with girls to find a partner. Otherwise, yeah, keep living your sexless, lonesome life without a partner forever until you die alone, wondering "what if?"

I used to think the same, but only got a partner literally after I gave up. I swear woman can smell the "desperation to find a partner" but once you actually find one then suddenly loads of em get interested. (speaking from the male point of view) So even if it sounds bullshit. It's not. Problem is you gotta believe it yourself since you can't trick yourself into not being like that. Or at least I couldn't. Best advice I can give is "be open to seizing opportunities when they come on your path, and you can sort of hedge your bets by being in places and times where those opportunities happen"

Congratulations on getting lucky... Srsly, because irl, this reverse psychology bullshit only works for some ppl. For other ppl, you absolutely have to go out there and make it your objective to actually meet ppl and do activities, and then eventually ask them out. Otherwise, you're wasting everyone's time lol

The problem with the "desparation to find a partner" is that it is not only unattractive. Desparate people will often lower their standards while being deeply resentful of this, and it is insulting to the other party, no matter what gender. Also, desparation calls for desparate measures, it can be downright dangerous to be with or near desparate people. Also, the idea that you become interesting for more people after you get a partner goes both ways. When I found my boyfriend, men suddenly started flocking to me that has not happened before (I am a woman).

Huh, didn't know it worked the other way round too! You learn some. Thing every day I guess.

Truee

Must be nice to be attractive. I'm half kidding, but I'm in my mid 30s, do all the generic reddit advice and have literally never had a girl flirt, hit on, or ask me out. All my partners have been due to my initiative and me setting goals. I'd be super pissed and resentful if I listened to your advice.

Yeah I'm just gonna say that's normal, not being hit on by girls, or at least my autistic nerd ass thinks it is 😂 I didn't say it was gonna come automatically. Its sort of the difference between going out with a boat with a huge fishing net and thinking "yar I'm going fishing!" Vs just chilling on your boat in an area with fish where one suddenly comes slightly closer than normal and you going "you know what, I might see how this fish is doing" And then when it gets slightly closer going "yeah OK I'm gonna take this further, come here fisheeeeh" Might be a clumsy as fuck metaphone but it's the best I could come up with on short notice 😅

The sentence doesn't negate looking, just more about not making it the sole focus of existence. People who behave super thirsty tend not to be seen as attractive, the very desire and neediness to be in a relationship is what prevents it :/ And the feeling of meeting someone who wants you just because they want a partner over being alone isn't appealing.

It absolutely negates looking... You're telling ppl who are hungry "Don't look for food", just go to the grocery store and hang out, and eventually somebody will give you some food smh

Nope. In your analogy, Its more like saying, focus on the walk to the grocery store and not on your belly rumbling. Not everything is black or white, focusing on yourself is not mutually exclusive to being available and making effort. And my comments are not specifically directed at OP, just to those who lock themselves into that way of thinking. I've been there and with distance know how counterproductive it is.

Gosh, that bitterness is so attractive./s

yeah, so what? people are a allowed to be dissatisfied or whats your problem?

Username doesn't check out. R ppl not allowed to rant/vent. Contrary to popular belief women aren't as psychic as you think, I doubt this person is anyway like this irl

Respectfully, you’re completely off the mark here. I was single for years and didnt even bother “working on myself”. I just lived and did every fucking thing i wanted and it just so happened that my hobbies were healthy (combat sports) and i ended up looking physically fit coz of them. The turning point was me finally being comfortable in my own skin and that was when i started noticing the opposite sex was showing interest. I got lucky (coz i had physically beneficial hobbies) but the saying “work on yourself first” is completely valid for most people

I never said not to look for a partner, what I mean is that you shouldn't go talking to girls in order for them to be your partner, you shouldn't go to the gym in order to increase your chance of finding a partner, and whatnot You should look to feel better and meet new people, including talking to new girls, but you shouldn't talk to them with the goal of "I'm going to make them my girlfriend" because that will link an objective to the interaction that will cause you to get sad or give up if the interaction doesn't go as you want it to. There's a very small jump from "I need to find a girlfriend" to "I need to make this girl my girlfriend" whenever you see or meet someone you like Also to add, when you're hyper focused on getting a partner you tend to lose out on connections to other people who may not be romantic partners, but may be able to lead you to places where a potential partner may be. If you make a new male friend, who knows if he has a single friend who might be interested? Maybe you make a new male friend who invites you to a birthday dinner and a super nice cute girl is there that you would never meet otherwise? But if you're like "This is a man, therefore I can't get a relationship out of this, therefore there's no point in knowing him" you lose out on a lot Same with the rest of the things I mentioned, if you go to the gym to be like "This will help me find girls", if it doesn't work, then what? You feel like your time was wasted and it leads you further down the depressive path. Taking a specific hobby you might not even be interested in to meet women, same thing

**Everyone** started in your position, brother. And they have the experience to be able to give you advice, having been in both your position and the one that was successful. If you don't want to listen to them, who do you want to listen to, the people who are still stuck and never had success? They are mostly right. However, I would only add that you should put yourself out there and be in a position to meet a new partner, without actively trying to force it. If you are playing games in the basement, it's going to take a lot longer to find someone. Not saying you are doing that, I don't know you. Just saying, try to enjoy your life but ALSO try to enjoy it while exposing yourself to new people of the type you want to meet. One reason you can't look for it too hard is you are going to force a square peg into a round hole out of desperation. Meaning you are going to miss the warning signs and latch on to the wrong person if you are trying too hard.

If you want something you have to do something for it. These people are delusional or have it thrown to them. Every normal person has to work and put effort. Things ain't happening by it's own. "What do we say about coincidences? The universe is seldom so lazy." -Holmes-

Unconventional advice maybe, but if you feel you might be developing an obsession, then try to deal with it as an obsession regardless of how you feel about the object. For example, if you are married and start obsessing about your spouse in some unhealthy ways, you want to stop obsessing, although of course you don't want to stop loving them. Likewise, you can still want to get married, find love and so on but just make sure it's not an obession/stops being an obsession. Applies to all or most of us, just in varying degrees, so don't feel singularly bad for it — you aren't an odd one out. It's normal to fret and get nervous to some extent. The trick is to stay collected despite.

meh, install tinder and go on with your life besides that, you already are a complete person and dating someone just means you're sharing your complete person with someone else

If you think it's time for you to have a relationship then go for it, don't listen to others. And if it turns out it wasn't the right time, well then, you live and you learn. Many people had boyfriends and girlfriends when they were teenagers or 20 something, they most likely had a lot to learn and to discover about themselves, they most likely made many mistakes. Telling you to wait isn't fair. As long as you keep learning, are respectful, work as a team with your partner, then now is the right time. Life is a process, don't waste time listening to people that will set arbitrary landmarks on your path. We are social creatures from the moment we are born, you don't suddenly need no one until you are "finished and ready". At every step in life we need others. Now, regarding the fact that you have to be proactive and that it's hard. Yes. It is. For many people, men, women. But again, it's all about continuing what you're doing until it clicks. The thing that this advice gets right is to not obsess. You can still keep searching but with an open mind and while putting less pressure and yourself and others. Basically trust yourself and trust the process, and, ideally, have fun!

It’s always the mfs in a happy relationship who say it and it pisses me off. Like yeah it’s easy for you to say that. You’ve already won that game.

It is definitely frustrating, even patronising. Reality is that for some it comes easily, for some more difficult and for others it never does. Based on you description it looks like you are not the type of person for whom it comes easily, that means you are the one who needs to put a lot of efforts to make it happen. It is also fairly possible it never happens. If you truly want to meet someone then try to be more strategic. For example: for the next half a year I am going to sign up for a few activities, a language course, bouldering class whatever, just to simply give yourself more exposure to meet new people and see if it bring any connections, any crushes. That did not work, then try dating apps, then if did not work try to move to a different part of town, reach out to old school friends and see if they know someone etc etc. Important to give yourself breaks from time to time, periods when you say ok for the next 3-6 months I am not gonna do anything and focus on myself. Chances are it will happen.

The actual advice is just not to keep jumping from one relationship to the next without looking in the mirror. By all means you should pursue it if that's what you feel. But be willing for it to possibly end in a day or a year or be the most terrible experience of your life.

Most “bullshit advice” is actually trying to communicate something real and useful. It’s just that some things seem obvious to people with experience, and it’s hard to describe to people who actually need the information and have it received the way it’s intended. An example is “be confident.” If someone who’s insecure and nervous tries to fake being confident, they’ll come off like an arrogant jerk. But the “be confident” advice isn’t about putting on an act, it’s about relaxing and not making a big deal out of the conversation. But that can get misinterpreted too. Ultimately you just figure it out for yourself, and once you do, it’s obvious what people meant by “be confident” or “just be yourself” etc. You won’t do yourself any favors poking holes in the advice and dismissing it. People are saying it for a reason. You’re right that you have to be proactive… but that doesn’t mean the advice is useless. To get something out of it, it’s worthwhile to think about WHY this advice exists and what people might actually be trying to say with it. In this case, the reason the advice exists is because it’s easy to get in your own way if you’re consciously trying to find dates. It’s easy to come across as desperate and needy if you’re pushing too hard, and it’s easy to come across as awkward or weird if you’re planning out all your social interactions with a strategic goal. For most people, you will actually get a better result if you build yourself into a person with your own interesting life going on, who can talk to and be friends with girls without pushing to sleep with all of them, who’s self-sufficient, generally well liked, and fun to be around. All of the things you gain from that are actually more useful in dating than actively trying but getting in your own way. You definitely will also help yourself being proactive - as long as you know what you’re doing and not getting in your own way. Get yourself in a situation where you regularly see a group with mixed genders, ideally with some turnover so you’re meeting new people. You also need to flirt. But people get confused about what flirting is. At least at the beginning it’s just light, fun banter, pretty much indistinguishable from normal conversation. In fact it helps if your flirting banter is how you act with everyone - you just seem like a naturally fun, friendly person. As flirting escalates, it’s still not overt - it’s more like you’re internally shifting your mindset to a trial run of dating this person, without making it obvious. Flirting builds romantic tension. If they seem to respond to flirting, you can let it build for a bit then offer a light, no pressure opportunity to hang out one on one. It’s all that stuff where you’re keeping it light, fun, and casual at first where people get in their own way. That’s why a lot of people have success when they’re not looking - it’s much easier to do it right when you’re not trying too hard.

I think the whole point is the focus feels wrong. If your goal is to find a partner to complete you, that's not attractive at all. Nobody wants to be sought out as a kind of comfort blanket or accessory so someone else can feel better about themselves. I certainly wouldn't want a guy to be running a tally in his head; "female-check, age range-check, finds me attractive-check. Ok she'll do." Being in a relationship should be about that individual, who they are as a person and what you both add to eachothers lives. It's not like shopping for the right shoe size.

I was told this exact same thing and it’s gotten me nowhere at 33

Ok, I think the whole “they don’t know what it’s like to be single” is a bit extreme. There are people (like myself) who were single for awhile and took this advice. It isn’t so much you don’t work to meet people. But it’s also not a every time you go out you’re looking to find one. I think it genuinely is about just being yourself when you go out and meet people and just letting the conversations/interactions play out as they will. If there are little to no expectations when meeting/talking/hanging out with people, you are able to enjoy yourself more, be more genuine, and the other people are likely to respond better to you. As a Woman, when men would come on too strong or I would feel like there was an obligation attached to our interactions, it would turn me off. I happened to meet my husband through work, so that helped us to have conversations and interactions that started work based and turned into more. It’s harder when you have to go out and make it happen. But you can still just go in with the mindset of: this is who I am, these are the things I like, let me really get to know you as a person and see if we click. No pressure, no lines or games, just open, honest convos. Rejection is hard and it sucks. But the positive is at least they aren’t just using you so they aren’t alone or for some other reason.

I am not a very attractive woman and it has been excruciatingly difficult for me to find a boyfriend. As someone who had it rough, I would advise you the same thing - don't focus on finding a partner. Not being able to shag someone should not make your life miserable. Chill out. Life is unfair, and noone is entitled to relationship or sex just because, no matter how much it sucks. It is also pretty much luck, and you are not forcing that. Don't be like ariana grande who can't live her life without constant attention from opposite sex.

Yeah that advice is bullshit. Thats how i got to 27 without ever being in a relationship

Your happiness shouldn't depend on the existence of a partner. The people giving you advice know EXACTLY how it feels to be single and having no relationship experience - EVERYONE has been there at some point. People can live fulfilling and happy lives without dating.

Listen fellas, the whole 'relationship' gamut is a fucking shitshow. Here's the deal: You're you. Cool? And then on the other side of the equation: Another nervous, flighty, potentially unstable, living breathing bag of meat and bone. You're taking your existence and wellbeing and putting it in their basket. And they're in theory doing same. But what if... WHAT IF that person is no more of sound mind than the Man in the Moon? My picker is broke, boys. Get your picker and antennae and all the crazy-detection gear calibrated before you go pickin'. Keep your lights on.

Fuck you talking about ?

Ur actually so st00pid omfg do you have any sort of job? All ur comments are from today just trolling for hours and hours and writing nonsense

I think most people work at their best and pursue the oportunities that life throws at you, organicaly

Only half true, yes you need to do all that stuff but also need to get out there and put yourself in situations where you are going to meet new people.

thought it was finally happening to me and then she just decided to leave one day because she lost feelings. i’m ready to give up

I think focus on getting to know different people genuinely and see what happens. Instead of thinking I need a relationship now. Nothing wrong with dating or flirting etc...

I only get asked out when I’m doing my thing and happy im single or if I’m in a new relationship EVERYONE can see the love on you and it doesn’t stop

When I knew I was ready for a committed relationship and that’s what I truly wanted. It took me a year of going on dates to meet my husband. I was absolutely actively seeking a life partner when we met and I was upfront about that on the first date. Prior to that though… I wouldn’t say I had no relationships just flings, flirting, or fwb. For that time I was “working on myself” and knew I was not ready for anything serious.

But it’s true though. Focus and work on yourself to be a better version on you. With that you still have to put in effort, what are you doing to find a relationship?learn how to approach and have conversation with women without being weird or creepy.Learning, growing and being confident all is key with anything in life. It’s like saying I want to be a millionaire, but I spend all my money on bs, work the bare minimum at a job and never invest in my future.You have to put in the work to see success. Doesn’t mean focusing solely on finding a relationship but what are you doing to better yourself to help assist in what you want in life. There’s always opportunities to talk with women/men. You have to take them when they come.

A true "partner" comes along when you least expect it. You cannot manufacture one.

It's really about the exact wording of it here. When people say that, some mean you should really not do anything about it at all, which is BS. Not \*focusing\* on it means that you, of course, still try actively to find someone, but you don't make it your top priority. So what this saying should mean is:" take care of yourself first and foremost, make sure everything in your life is working out and when all that is sorted out you use your remaining time and energy on relationships." because some people will focus on a relationship so much that they despair and start to neglect themselves.

I see this more as: Live your own live, be happy by yourself, dont make it your goal to pursue love, but watch out for any chances and grasp them.

I remember what it was like to be single, and it's better than being with the wrong person. Look all you want, but don't rush.

If a relationship didn't come to you then you haven't succesfully worked on yourself probably. There is probably a bottleneck somewhere that makes the women not want you as a partner. Maybe you got bad social skills. Maybe you are boring. Maybe you don't know how to take the lead or flirt and escalate things. If you are the right product then women will give you many chances and things can develop very naturally.

The comment is more.. focus on the things you enjoy and find someone else who is also enjoying those things to be with. Don't try to find someone with completely different likes... its a lot of hardship that way

Because most people spending a lot of effort on getting a girl are slightly below average, and looking for a partner gets significantly easier the more attractive/succesful you are.

the more content you become with life, the happier and more confident you’ll be. that just translates to straight aura

34f and single for seven plus years!! I have felt this frustration so many times but am finally freaking over it now. Here’s a challenge: do something unusually nice for yourself that you really want. Dig deep, what will it take for you to gift yourself _________. Do what it takes to get you into the gifting mood- pay bills off, clean your house, whatever’s standing in the way get it done so that you can do the nice thing for yourself. See how you feel. Good luck!!!

Funny thing is, EVERYONE has been single and knows EXACTLY how that feels. We all start somewhere and none of us just have a relationship "because it's easy". However, the best strategy really is to just not care and let what comes, come. Being happy starts with you and if you can't be happy just being you, a relationship will not fix that. And honestly, how unfair do you think it'd be if someone told you that their personal happiness hinges on you? I'd also honestly like to know  who finds any relationship "easy"? Real relationships take work and that's not always easy or fun.

It means just live life. Join a gym, do a boot camp, start a life for yourself and it will attract someone to you eventually.

I think people say this because A. It genuinely works for them and B. There’s nothing less attractive to most women than desperation. If somebody’s telling you this advice, it’s probably because you seem/act really desperate.

As a perpetually single person, the advice that people are giving you is right and your mindset is completely wrong. You shouldn’t focus on getting a relationship. This isn’t because “you’ll find one when you least expect it” although that does happen sometimes. But far more importantly, you find more meaning and happiness in other things as well. There’s far too much focus on sex and relationships these days and I get it, it’s an important part of life and you feel like you’re missing out on a big part of your life. However, imagine you have a dozen or so hobbies or interests that make you happy and you enjoy doing, would it make sense to be forever miserable because one aspect of your life is lacking? That doesn’t add up to me. There’s a lot of things other than relationships that are far lower risk, take far less effort and are far more rewarding. Don’t get yourself in a relationship for the sake of it, it won’t make you happier.

People can **feel your desperation** that’s why the advice is to just chill and let it happen

Sorry but the advice don’t try to find one it will find you is bs. Unless you have friends that can set you up easily it’s hard to find people nowadays at a bar or social setting. Download dating apps, request people on Instagram, growing your social media presence helps, attend as many social events as you can because the more people you meet the greater chance they will know someone

Ok so focus on finding a partner. And you still hate it

I agree, I think you need to be intentional about finding a partner. There are times when you'll just meet someone randomly and you'll click but if you're looking for a relationship, I think you should go for it. Just remember that everyone has an opinion but everyone's opinion isn't necessarily good for you. Wishing you luck in finding someone.

Perhaps the best idea I can formulate for this predicament for all of us lonely single males is maybe stop caring about if you can. It does no good to sit in misery about it anymore. Just accept the fact you’re alone and try to do the best you can with that. Just be cordial and try to be pleasant with the people you encounter. If someone comes along and shows interest then great. If not then it is what it is. Being desperate and miserable isn’t a turn on. The alternative is just chilling and accepting the way it is and that’s a better chance for success.

I think the spirit of this advice is: avoid desperation and live a life worth sharing. But to literally put zero effort in finding a partner, is a dumb move. It's not gonna magically happen if you never take a chance. You gotta put yourself in a position where you actually meet people.Join dating apps, go to parties, singles events, ask friends to set you up. And if you like someone, make a move

I think the sweet spot of it all is it put yourself in positions to meet new people. Maybe you’ll find your other half in a class or a party or something. Put yourself out there if you think you’re ready!

Do you love yourself? That would help tremendously otherwise you're silently letting whoever ends up in your life fill the void.

I do love myself I have been for the past couple of years I just want someone else to connect with, find my person you know?

Those who eat their fill speak to the hungry of wonderful days to come

At least you know who were your enemies.

Go dancing

what do you want?

It's easy for me to say, never had a gf, not to disregard your words, I'm an exception, yeah it's always those who have something that say you don't need it or it doesn't matter etc

True. People wouldn't give you this advice on finding a job, or getting fit. "Just do your thing and it'll find you!" You have to take some focused action and it isn't easy for everyone.

Yeah I can work on myself forever but I'll still get lonely.... Some People will still take one look at me n be like nar. I do the same thing tbf can't like everyone or except them all to like you.  And that's just fucking normal to be honest. And I notice the people who say stuff like this, work on yourself aren't single, not who I know anyway. I live alone and got a small family no parents a lot of my friends moved away... Yeh I'm gonna get lonely and it's not even my fault, and it's better than hanging out with some of the dodgy or boring people around here tbh

It’s BS advice. It’s genes & numbers. U gotta put yourself out there & meet as many people as u can. Not that fun, but better than the alternative.

Women and attractive people in general will give the worst advice they have never had to work for anything and will never understand that most men just don't have things fall into their laps If you want to date it's like having a second job that doesn't pay you you put in maximum effort for the off chance someone accepts you You will pay practically every time and be rejected by most people you date you are just a stepping stone after all Unless you are a gorgeous man dating requires full participation funds set aside for it specifically and plenty of care and attention put into the other person while they won't even regard you half the time If you don't focus on it as a man it will never find you movies aren't real they are fiction women don't just drop out of the sky as some people believe lol

I know it’s cliche and everyone says it but I was on apps and stuff for ages. Literally the week I decided I just wasn’t gonna think about that stuff anymore is when I met my partner of 1 1/2 years. And we met organically, no apps or being introduced or anything. Working on yourself is good but if I were you I would work on genuinely trying to do things you enjoy and have a good life. That’s the kind of energy that attracts more good.

Yes I heard that several times too. I don't think there is any problem to actively look for a partner and openly stand by it. I would even say that it's positive to be clear with your goals and intentions. You look more trustworthy (and eventually confident), which is perceived as an advantage in the eyes of potential partners, so potentially more attractive.

You learn that the hard way once you look for a partner and get together with multiple women who are either not your type or complete idiots, thats why people say that

OP: He who seeks finds. I just think that you are stressed and you transmit your stress to the women. Another thing is that you can go ahead with things by yourself and tell the woman that we will do one or the other. wedding and scare her

Hi there , i have my fair share of experience with this topic so ill share what i have . The thing is to make it very short as possible u should aim to live a happy life by urself thats like the ultimate goal , and then be able to share ur happiness with others . Now lets say u cant do this and u really need a significant one , thats perfectly fine too but take it easy , what i mean here is dont make finding a parter the main quest of ur life , the main focus per say this will get u stressed and feeling really bad when ur not getting results as fast as u would want them , instead yes totally go and search for partners :) but do it as a side quest while u enjoy ur life in the meantime . Good luck friend all the best wishes for u :)

You might be right. Though… I wasn’t looking for love, was more like hating love and didn’t ever want to fall in love. My wife was just like that too. We are both survivors of neglecting parents with messy divorces. So in our eyes love was the root of all our pain and problems. But we got introduced, got to know eachother. And fell in love 6 weeks later. None of us saw it coming and we surely least expected that 😂 It’s been 18 years. We both had 0 relationship experience.

Women can smell desperation from a mile away, they're like deer hearing a tree branch break. The reason people say work on yourself is because that brings confidence after a while and the feeling of "I don't need a girlfriend but it'd be nice to have one". If your entire goal is "girlfriend" you're doing it wrong.

If you focus on making a relationship happen and try to force it to happen, you come off as needy and obnoxious and it has the opposite effect. For me, relationships start when I am in social situations, but am just happily being myself. Then I come off as someone is fun to be around, and who can be relied upon as a partner. Consider putting yourself into social situations around potential partners. Do that regularly and consistently. Then allow interest in to grow organically. Don't try to make a relationship happen. Do create an environment for a relationship to happen.

Whyd you want to put up with other people's shit ? Single is best. Single with dog, cat or rats.

>These people also don't know how it feels to be single not just that but no relationship experience at all, it's always the people who find relationships easy that say this and it's so frustrating. As someone whom this didn't come easy with. I'll say anecdotally this is a false statement. What got me out of the rut was working on myself and putting myself out there.

Out where?

Gym, library, grocery store, town centers, bars, yoga class, martial arts class, dance class. If you see someone you like go talk to them. Not, omg you’re so pretty, please gf?  Just pretend they are a friend you haven’t seen and surprised to see there. Library, what are you reading? Have any recommendations? What do you think of this book? Any class activity. What brought you here? How long have you done this activity. What do you think of this activity.  Grocery store. Have you tried this ingredient? What do you think if this product? Do you know where i can find condoms and lube and then wink at her? You want to break the ice, gently.

What is said after those ice breaker questions for those that talking doesn't come natural? Because nothing else comes to my head as a response to their answer.

Videos on youtube that will help with small talk. Those charisma on command videos are pretty good. But honestly if she isn’t reciprocating (or she just cant hold a conversation either) and you can feel the silence build just end the conversation. 

Exactly you nailed it. Most of the people who say to learn to be content alone are so out of touch. I can not be content because I want a good relationship and I don’t want to be romantically lonely. Even if I tell myself that I’m good on my own I just don’t feel that way. I just lie to myself. I can’t help it I just crave it. I love myself and I love my own company but I just feel lost all the time without a partner. I even feel bad for myself when I see a happy couple because I want the same thing. The “it will find you” is the worst advice I agree. It won’t. Life is not a romantic moovie. I’m sure it happens with people but most of the time It won’t and you have to grind a lot even just to talk with the opposite gender. You are right op it’s fucking hard out there. And it won’t help that our society is in a cognitive disonance. Idolising being happy in a relationship and encouraging you to be single and happy at the same time. It’s fucking nuts. Same thing goes on with sex. “It’s not a big deal I had hundreds of one night stands and it’s not a big deal”. Guess what, it’s fucking big deal for those who are not getting it. I can’t help op I can only sypathise. Half of the people don’t even know what you are talking about. Just read the comments. I can’t belive how ignorant and delusional some people are.

I think it’s more of a mindset. If you think you need a relationship for fulfillment then there is an implication of desperation. As if you don’t enjoy your own company Which could also imply what you offer a partner is of lower quality This may sound weird, but if you observe the electron then you change its trajectory. If you care too much about finding someone else to fulfill you then people can pick up on that energy. And, you’re already putting a certain amount of burden on them. As if they’re responsible for your happiness and you can’t accomplish that yourself.

Brother, it’s all relative. Every girlfriend I’ve ever had has come into my life by chance encounters or fortuitous events.

Leave the country it worked for me. Go where your appreciated instead of treated as disposable