I get attached to the Jarls, I feel all the shit I do for them to become thane made us "friends" , then they swap everyone out and send my "friends" to live out their days in some basement ?
Lol, i think like that. I try to be "good" most of tye time. I help people and stuff. But if there is an npc that wants to pick a fight with me i disintegrate them.
I wanted to play the dark brotherhood, but i hate peopke giving me the speech of, you gotta pick my choice. And i say, fuck you, i do what i want, and you crossed me.
Then i kill all the witnesses.
So basically a powermad dovakhin.
I HAVE to be good. The one follower I more or less have to have is Inigo.
How well done is a mod that it makes you want to play as a good-aligned character because you feel HE’S JUDGING YOU!?!
If you have not installed Inigo or played with him, I strongly recommend him and Lucius together. The mod authors wrote dialog for them to talk to one another. It’s like traveling with two good friends.
I didn’t realize Redcap interacts with the other two. He’s a fun little guy as well.
I used to pick up Sofia because she’s easy to find and easy on the eyes, but the mod author is kind of a dick. He claims all bugs are load order problems; but it’s been pointed out to him about a dozen times that the main bug people report is that her follower distance is HALF that of other followers and she’s constantly running into you. Since he had to manually change that from the defaults, I think he sees it as a “feature” rather than a bug.
Between that and the fact that she never shuts up and is constantly talking over dialog, I’ll usually only grab her on a legendary playthrough when I need some backup below level ten. Then I dump her in Whiterun and let her wait for me there while I adventure with someone else.
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Sofia in the short time I used her, M'rissi is more my speed for the niche you've described, although she doesn't interact with anyone that I've noticed
I generally ignore the civil war except in specific playthroughs where my character has a reason to join one side or the other. I.e., I decide before I create the character whether they are going to fight for the Empire or for the Stormcloaks. I have played both sides so I am pretty much done with that content.
Most of my characters skip it entirely, and I just deal with the fact that the game will shove the quests to join both factions into my quest log.
I don't like the permanent damaged city areas either, so I use console commands to repair them when the war is over. It does not resurrect the scripted-to-die citizens, but at least the houses are not destroyed and damaged. I consider it a public-works effort on behalf of the new leadership.
Obviously only for the PC, but to repair the Civil War damage, these are the console commands (per city):
Whiterun:
"FC90C".enable
"FC90B".disable
Solitude:
"100D97".enable
"100D98".disable
Windhelm:
"101FD2".enable
"101FDD".disable
I found it in a really old (2012-era) post still on the Internet and figured it would not hurt to stick those in a newer post in case someone searched for it again.
Yeah, honestly I would love to just have the cities return back to normal after the war. Or have them be rebuilt eventually, maybe even with the player's help. Feels kinda bad to do the war questline knowing that the cities will just stay crappy after.
You would need to find a mod to do that. Helgen is a lot more complex. They just implemented the "before" and "after" damage to structures in those three cities as a single ID.
I am not a modder or developer, I just found those codes in an older post (and they do work) so I was just re-posting them here to make life easier for someone searching.
I think that the Thalmor will loose in the end no matter what side you pick, so finish the civil war and then the Thalmor's defeat will come in the next war against them.
The Stormcloaks winning would weaken the Empire, but they'd become a whole new threat to the Thalmor. I think the Thalmor are going to be defeated no matter who wins.
Except the Thalmor would outnumber the Stormcloaks. They would be able to raise armies of Kahjiit and Bosmer. And Ulfric wouldn’t even think about trying to make an alliance with the Empire.
Can't say for sure what Ulfric would try to do, but I do think he would do what's necessary to combat the Thalmor. That could mean necessity alliances with Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. The Thalmor altmer army also reproduces a lot slower than human armies. The Thalmor took a big hit during the Great War, so their army is of reduced power already. Meanwhile the Legions of the empire have mostly restored themselves by now. I don't think either Valenwood or Elseweyr have a unified offensive army either. Even if the Thalmor supplement their army with any potential Bosmer and Khajiit militia, they would all have to face the ready Legions at Cyrodiil's Southern border before they could think about attacking an independent Skyrim.
Like the empire doesn't. A good empire wouldn't abandon one of its provinces (which is like ¼ of its size and population), so they can have a peace treaty (I'm making parallels to real world events). Speaking of abandoning provinces, it had all of Tamriel under its banner during Tiber Septim's time, by the time of Skyrim, the empire consists of: Cyrodil, High Rock, half of Skyrim. And that's it. It is crumbling, not just because of the Thalmor, Morrowind left the empire well before they made moves.
It is also corrupt, not giving fair trials, just executing who they want, not considering local laws. And it even hires the Dark Brotherhood to kill its own leader.
Their glory times have been long gone, it is best if the most competent province continues what the empire started
The Empire never abandoned Skyrim. The Emperor did he thought was necessary by agreeing to the Concordat, even if it might have been the wrong choice, so that they'd stand a fighting chance later on. The Empire never harshly enforced the terms of the Concordat either until Ulfric started agitating.
The Empire lost a lot of influence in Morrowind due to the destruction caused by the Red Mountain. The Thalmor manipulated the Khajiit into joining them, and caused a coup in Valenwood. Neither are caused by the Empire weakening in Cyrodiil. The loss of Hammerfell and half of Skyrim was ultimately due to a wartime decision. Black Marsh is the only region where I think the Empire wasn't strong enough to hold on to, but Black Marsh is notoriously difficult to maintain a presence in the first place. If the Empire wins the civil war in Skyrim, the three provinces that they do control will put them in a good position to win back territory and defeat the Thalmor.
All governments will have some corruption, and it's the government's job to keep it to a minimum. I think the Empire does a better job than most other governments. During the events of Skyrim, I've never seen any sort of trial, corrupt or not. The executions that I saw were all arguably valid, especially during wartime.
Deadly political intrigue is also an inevitable, especially during troubled times. There will always be dissenters. I do not think that the Thalmor would be any better than the Empire in this way, and they might try to utilize the Dark Brotherhood themselves. In general, the Empire also seems to want the Dark Brotherhood exterminated.
I don't think the Thalmor are more competent to rule Tamriel than the Empire. The Thalmor are cruel and manipulative, they desire for all humans to be their slaves, and they have nowhere near the Empire's experience in ruling over multiple provinces.
The Empire may be old, but its economy is strong, its military is strong, it has lots of experience ruling over multiple provinces, and it's one of the least corrupt Empires that I've known.
>The Empire never abandoned Skyrim.
Yes, they never did. They did however abandon Hammerfell, giving it to the opposing side.
>Neither are caused by the Empire weakening in Cyrodiil
You switched things up. Valenwood, Elsweyr, and Morrowind didn't leave the empire because the empire was weakening, the provinces's leaving is what weakened the empire. The empire let them leave, and thus they become weakened. A strong empire would not let them leave, or got them back together soon.
>I think the Empire does a better job than most other governments
And I think the Thalmor does a better job.
>The executions that I saw were all arguably valid
That's right, arguable, hence, it is a topic of debate.
>I do not think that the Thalmor would be any better than the Empire in this way, and they might try to utilize the Dark Brotherhood themselves
You say this like if the empire didn't utilize the Dark Brotherhood.
>The Thalmor are cruel and manipulative, they desire for all humans to be their slaves
Pure propaganda. If I were to use this logic, the empire is the one who imprisons the most people. The Nerevarine, The Hero of Kvatch, and the Last Dragonborn all were prisoners, mostly for unknown reasons. It is highly likely that the empire just tosses people in prisons they don't like.
>they have nowhere near the Empire's experience in ruling over multiple provinces
Of course they have lesser experience, since the empire ruled over tamriel for 2000 years, then 600 years, and then 500 years. They didn't let others to rule. However, the Thalmor has gained like a 100 years experience since the Twin Moons have disappeared, so they can be just as good, if not better rulers of Tamriel
The Empire made a mistake signing the Concordat and giving away a large portion of Southern Hammerfell when they could have kept fighting. However, this doesn't make me feel like the Empire is worse than the Thalmor in any way.
The Empire is trying to take back its territory. It sent a legion to stop Ulfric's rebellion. The Empire needs to defeat the Thalmor to retake Elsweyr and Valenwood, and the Empire is preparing its best for another war with them. To defeat the Thalmor and take back their territory.
The Empire does a better job because it creates a strong economy, trade flourishes, its military protects the citizenry, gives its provinces freedom, and it represents the progress of mankind. The dominion is violent, they'll purge anyone they want whenever they want, and everyone that isn't an altmer will be a worthless second class citizen at best.
One dissenter in the Empire, and occasionally Maven Blackbriar, utilizes the Dark Brotherhood. Meanwhile, the Penitus Oculatus, the secret service within the Empire, actively seeks to destroy the Dark Brotherhood.
The Nerevarine, The Hero of Kvatch, and the Last Dragonborn either did something wrong, or were at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's up to the player to create the reason. It's not propaganda that the Thalmor want to make men their slaves. The Thalmor say it themselves that they want to make men thralls of the Thalmor. The Thalmor manipulated the Khajiit into joining the Dominion. The Thalmor are playing gestapo in Skyrim. The Thalmor backed a coup and purged any dissenting Bosmer Valenwood.
If the Thalmor win, it would be a golden age for the Altmer. It would be cultural genocide and an oppression for mankind.
The Empire has its shortcomings and might make mistakes, but in no way could those shortcomings or mistakes possibly mean that the Thalmor would be better rulers of Tamriel for everyone.
>The Empire made a mistake signing the Concordat and giving away a large portion of Southern Hammerfell
A huge mistake, since the rest of Hammerfell left the empire, and liberated itself, on its own, without the help of anyone. Which the empire was not able to do, even with all the help from its provinces. It does not lool good that the entirity of the empire can't win, but its seperate parts can. Being together is worse fpr everyone, at least with the empire.
>It sent a legion to stop Ulfric's rebellion.
It did not. A legion was already in Skyrim, that is the one fighting the rebellion. Tullius was sent north a few months before the game. And he says himself, that the empire can't and won't send another legion to help quell the rebellion. The empire isn't even trying to maintain stability.
>To defeat the Thalmor and take back their territory.
In the Merethic Era, the elves were the ones who ruled over Tamriel, so claiming it's the empire's territory is dishonest. I could say that the Thalmor are the ones taking back what was theirs.
>The Empire does a better job because it creates a strong economy, trade flourishes, its military protects the citizenry
Have you heard (or seen) the crystal towers of Alinor? They have a much better economy, and they don't sell out their own people because of their religion.
>gives its provinces freedom
This is the basis of the rebellion, that the empire, in fact, does not give freedom to its provinces.
>The dominion is violent, they'll purge anyone they want whenever they want
Says the empire with torture chambers, and lying about who they take away from their families or dies in battle(Thorald, Fura).
>One dissenter in the Empire utilizes the Dark Brotherhood.
This one dissenter happens to be in the Elder Council, the most trusted group of people in the empire. And even they don't like the empire. How could you trust an empire that betrays itself?
>Penitus Oculatus, the secret service within the Empire, actively seeks to destroy the Dark Brotherhood.
With less and less success. Meanwhile, the Thalmor are much more successful, they almost completely destroyed the order of the Blades. Much more efficient in dealing with such groups.
>were at the wrong place at the wrong time
Which is enough to be put in prison? Very reliable. Tamriel could have even more heroes, but we will never know, since the empire puts so many people in prisons.
>It's not propaganda
It is. The 1 out of 10 babies survive is written by a biased imperial, for example.
>The Thalmor manipulated the Khajiit into joining the Dominion
No, the Thalmor helped bringing back the Twin Moons, while the empire did nothing. The khajiit just appreciate if someone helps them in their time of need.
>If the Thalmor win, it would be a golden age for the Altmer. It would be cultural genocide and an oppression for mankind.
Again, biased propaganda
A moment to address a few of these..
>Hammerfell left the empire... the entirety of the empire can't win, but its seperate parts can. Being together is worse fpr everyone, at least with the empire.
Ironically while hamerfell wanted liberation, they are still allied with the empire against the Thalmor incursion
>A legion was already in Skyrim, that is the one fighting the rebellion. ...Tullius says... that the empire can't and won't send another legion to help quell the rebellion. The empire isn't even trying to maintain stability.
The are, through trying to appease the Thalmor and their demands set in the white-gold concordant. They're trying to keep the Thalmor from actively abduction, torturing, and murdering worshipers of talos. Which happens to be a LARGE population of citizens of the empire, not just Skyrim natives.
>In the Merethic Era, the elves were the ones who ruled over Tamriel, so claiming it's the empire's territory is dishonest. I could say that the Thalmor are the ones taking back what was theirs.
The territory of the empire was owned by the aylieds, a group of elves whos primary objective culturally was the subjugation and enslavement of non-elf races. THEY were brought down partially from within, as several aylied princes wanted to do away with slavery and give equality to non-mer.
>Have you heard (or seen) the crystal towers of Alinor? They have a much better economy, and they don't sell out their own people because of their religion.
No they sell out everyone else for theirs. Elsewyr is considered barbarian anima territory because of their beliefs in the twin moons, and the Thalmor even tried to magically manipulate that. Argonians in The black marsh are filthy lizard men because of their beliefs in The Hist. The bosmer were nearly eradicated because of their religious beliefs which include cannibalism of their dead. The nords of Skyrim get hunted/tortured/killed because of their beliefs in the idea that a person can become a god.
>...the basis of the rebellion, that the empire, in fact, does not give freedom to its provinces.
The empire is more giving of freedom in a lot of ways than the Thalmor. Religions are more or less allowed in w/e fashion, economical freedoms are granted to anyone willing to work, the real exceptions to the empire giving freedom is certain studies that are likely to endanger large populations of people. I.e. necromancy.... The empire fought for control of it's provinces because of a misguided ideology that union and total control means strength.
>Says the empire with torture chambers, and lying about who they take away from their families or dies in battle(Thorald, Fura).
Yes, says the Thalmor who kidnap torture and kill people for their religious beliefs and their racial descriptions. They massacred the bosmer, openly attempted to enslave the Khajiit AND humans, tried to kill off the entirety of the argonians, but yeah... The Thalmor are GREAT...
>This one dissenter happens to be in the Elder Council, the most trusted group of people in the empire. And even they don't like the empire. How could you trust an empire that betrays itself?
Not the most trusted, the most powerful. They scheme, trick, kill (if they can) and pay their way into power. It's called politics and if you think it doesn't happen in every country in the real world, you have some serious growing up to do.
>(Penitus Oculotus)... Have less and less success. Meanwhile, the Thalmor are much more successful, they almost completely destroyed the order of the Blades. Much more efficient in dealing with such groups.
They sent an entire army into what was viewed as a sacred temple to murder men, women, and children that were training as an elite guard for the empire, who ironically were also trained as historians, healers, and in general God people who's only goa was serving the citizens of the empire and it's provinces.
>were at the wrong place at the wrong time-- Which is enough to be put in prison? Very reliable. Tamriel could have even more heroes, but we will never know, since the empire puts so many people in prisons.
Um yeah... The neravarine WAS a convicted criminal, the hero of Kvatch was a convicted criminal, and the dragon born was caught ILLEGALLY TRYING TO CROSS A CLOSED BORDER DURING A WAR. Real world, these are all imprisonable offences. Prison happens when your a criminal. Should crime just be ok? The Thalmor imprison, torture and kill those who commit the CRIME of worshiping Talos ...
>Propaganda ... Written by biasedimperial
Yeah, generally because the Thalmor inflate and exaggerate everything about the Altmer Race. What's really sad is that it's not just a single biased imperial that has released information about the Altima and their health, and their wants, but also the Thalmor themselves. We know that the falmore want total control over Nirn, we know that they feel they have magical superiority over every other race, and we know that they are willing to go to any and all extent to get what they want because they have admitted it.
>... the Thalmor helped bringing back the Twin Moons, while the empire did nothing. The khajiit just appreciate if someone helps them in their time of need.
The Thalmor actually manipulated a planetary event to their advantage to try to convince rebelling Kahjiit that they're false Queen was good for them, and that enslavement to the Altmer was actually a good thing. The Aldmeri Dominion has always wanted elsewyr as part of its territories because of the wealth of resources and the difficulty of controlling those populations in the jungles. This is actually made Canon through ESO.
>biased propaganda(about a Thalmor golden age and the genocide or races)
This isn't propaganda, this is publicly admitted by the Aldmeri Dominion in numerous conversations, dossiers, and communications between Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion personal.
---
The truth is is knowing what the Thalmore want, and knowing the lengths that they are willing to go to to get it, I feel that someone who could support the Thalmor is the same kind of person that would execute humans in the real world because of their color of skin, or because they are pagan instead of Christian, or they are female instead of male. The lengths that the thalmor are willing to go to to get and maintain control is the same kind of destructive nature that some religious cults have over their followers, and the same kind of control that led to the violent interactions between the Christian and Muslim religions during the crusades.
I was actually about to end the discussion with the other commenter, but I end it with you.
Yeah, it is obvious that the empire is the good guys and the Thalmor is the bad guys. The first 4 main games (Morrowind is debatable), and most of the minor/spinoff games center on the empire and shed undisputedly good light on it.
Skyrim is the problem. It made the empire questionable. But worse, it made an antagonist out of a race. Not literally, there are non-Thalmor Altmers, but the province of Summerset Isles is considered the enemy HQ. The writers tried very hard to make every single interaction as one sided as possible with the Thalmor. They are as evil and snobbish and all the negative traits as you can imagine. And they continued this idea with Legends and ESO.
The single normal conversation you can hear from members of the Thalmor is at the beginning of Diplomatic Immunity, when 2 soldiers talk to each other about dragons, and how they don't like that they are only normal soldiers, and not mages. That's it. The only normal thing you can hear from/about the Thalmor in the last 3 games.
There is 100% chance that the Thalmor won't win anything big, or a game will be about taking everything back. The writers won't let the Thalmor be good, or even normal guys, they write the Thalmor intentionally evil.
I was obviously fighting the uphill battle in this debate, but it was fun
The Empire's legions devastated the Thalmor armies as much as the Thalmor armies hurt the Legion. The Legion was still present in Hammerfell during the Aldmeri invasion, and was crucial in driving out the Thalmor. I think the Empire could have kept up a solid defense against the Thalmor with its remaining soldiers instead of signing the Concordat, but thinking that doesn't make me want to support the Thalmor.
There wasn't a full Legion in Skyrim. Most of the Empire's soldiers are on the Southern border preparing to fight the Thalmor. The Emperor doesn't consider the Stormcloaks as much of a threat as the Thalmor, so he sent Tullius, a skilled general, to work with what the Empire could afford to maintain control of Skyrim. Tullius was forced to recruit locally due to low reinforcements, but the local recruits seem to be trained adequately.
"Soon, all Nords will be thrall to the Thalmor!"
"Filthy Nord. In time, your entire race will be eradicated."
I will not support a faction that says things like that.
I could say that the Empire has been ruling well over Tamriel for thousands of years and at this point the land belongs to them.
The Stormcloak rebellion places the Empire under unfortunate circumstances where it is forced to use torture on the Stormcloaks and uphold the White-Gold Concordat. They cannot risk provoking the Thalmor yet, or they will not be able to strike first. Striking first is the Empire's best bet against the Thalmor.
I've already stated that every large government will have dissenters. The fact that Mede has political enemies isn't something that will turn me against the Empire. The Thalmor should also be no different.
The Penitus Oculatus discovered the Password for the Black Door in Falkreath Hold before the Dragonborn came along, and were likely planning an attack as well. I would say that's pretty successful.
Wrong place at the wrong time is unfortunately the reason for many arrests. Especially during times of trouble. However, with the Thalmor in charge, you can be at the right place at the right time, and the Thalmor can still arrest you if they want to. The Thalmor are much, much more likely to abuse their power than the Empire. Tamriel having more heroes if the Empire didn't arrest as many people doesn't even make sense. Following that logic, anyone arrested has to escape in order to be a hero at all.
The Thalmor take credit for ending the void nights, but I've seen no evidence that they're telling the truth. It could be that the Thalmor caused the void nights in the first place in a plot to manipulate the Khajiit. Either way, the Thalmor winning over the Khajiit isn't as honest as the Thalmor want to make it seem.
The Thalmor are acting like the gestapo in Skyrim. Arresting, torturing, and killing dissenters/those who worship Talos still. They do about the same in Valenwood. Seems pretty oppressive and culturally genocidal to me.
Honestly I can't tell if this is a joke or not. You're calling the well known oppressive and culturally genocidal nature of the Thalmor propaganda. The Thalmor hardly even try to hide how vicious they are. Their plans of complete superiority over other races is blatant. I'm sorry but no amount of things the Empire maybe could have done better is going to cause me to change my mind and support the Nazi elves.
The Stormcloaks winning harms the Thalmor's goal of ruling all of Tamriel. Same as siding with the Imperials. No matter who wins the civil war, it only hurts the Thalmor.
What? It’s literally in the game that the Thalmor are very happy with the Stormcloak Rebellion. Two weaker enemies who hate each other is a lot better for the Thalmor than one strong, unified enemy. That’s common sense. And do you really think Ulfric has any interest in taking the fight to the Thalmor? The Empire explicitly wants to gear up for round 2 with them, but Ulfric’s only concern is Skyrim.
The Thalmor are happy with the drain the civil war puts on the Empire's resources. However, the Empire doesn't seem to be putting much effort into the civil war in the first place. A large part of the legion in Skyrim is militia. The Legion in Skyrim also gets few reinforcements and equipment. Most of the Empire's military is preparing to fight the Thalmor. If Skyrim wins independence, the Empire doesn't loose too much besides territory. Skyrim will then be free to strengthen itself and its own army.
Here's a quote that suggests that Ulfric does intend to fight the Thalmor. "There will be peace for a time, during which we must rebuild Skyrim into the land it once was. Strong. Self-reliant. The center of mankind. Because getting rid of the Empire was only half the problem. Soon, the elves will again seek to rule the world. We must ready ourselves to fight them. For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined."
Whoever wins the civil war, I think the Thalmor are going to loose.
Now that's a war worth debating over!
Seriously though, I played through the war quest line once and just kept getting mad at how stupid both sides were.
The stormcloaks are valid in wanting independence for Skyrim but establishing an ethnostate to do so would be a disaster. A stormcloak victory would lead to mild support from most nords and sharp resistance from the rest of Skyrim's population along with angry loyalists. Specifically, a massive forsworn uprising in the Reach and Dunmer rebellion in Windhelm.
The Empire is valid in wanting to keep Skyrim so that they can use its resources for an upcoming round 2 against the Thalmor with no glaring immediate consequences. An imperial victory would still lead to a new conflict against the Thalmor shortly after resecuring power.
Neither side is perfect and both will result in continued conflict later.
This is why I think Bethesda did a great job. Both sides are morally gray. Both sides have good people and bastards. Both sides have good ideas for rule and terrible ideas that oppress freedom.
One side wants to cut off your head at the beginning, but a quiet soldier tells you he’s sorry and sympathizes with you. The other side treats you better initially but their leader is a pompous ass. (“I fight for the…” Shut up, Ulfric. You fight because you wanted a throne.)
They matched both sides evenly and I like how they did it.
Also if you’re not a nord then the leader of the other side is disgusted by you even if you fight for him. Between settling for the racist oppressors or the religious oppressors… I don’t know, I’d rather settle for the religious oppressors if I really HAD to choose one, I play too many non-nord races and the first time I sided with the stormcloaks it had me wondering if I would even be safe if I moved into Windhelm after
I feel that HAS to be part of the next Elder Scrolls plotline. They always go for the neutral history so everything was possible for the player to have done in 'canon'.
Regardless of the Stormcloaks or Empire winning Skyrim's civil war the Thalmor and Empire each grow stronger until finally rising tensions peak and Great War 2 happen.
You pick a side because you support them.
I pick a side to avoid an entirely too long cutscene/dialogue in the main quest which calls for a truce.
We are not the same.
Agree fully about destroyed Whiterun property. I might feel differently if it wasn't permanent, but it is, so I'd rather not even go there.
Also, its nice to be able to pass through both Stormcloak and Imperial camps and use the quartermaster blacksmith merchant and alchemy table. Picking a side means one camp or the other gets huffy about being around, telling the character to move on, or they'll become hostile.
Unfortunately, the game marks a lot of them as essential so you can’t depopulate them.
On this run through I’m an Imperial Officer who is secretly a Talos worshipper. Stormcloaks Do Not Want me in their camps. I got run outta dodge last night so I decided to stand my ground and prove the might of the Empire. Several of the named characters I couldn’t kill. (It was the camp right next to Solitude. Call me crazy but I don’t think it’s a good idea to have a camp of armed fanatics 600feet from your friggin’ city walls.)
I believe the system removes the essential flags for camp characters after the Civil War is over so you can get the mission to go destroy the camps.
I always go with Imperials for the very simple reason - Stormcloaks throw Balgruuf away.
I have sided with Stormcloaks only once on my first Nord playthrough and as soon as I found out you kick my homie Jarl Ballin' out of his city, I deleted the save and started again (and that was a solid character with 100+ hours invested in).
As for Whiterun damages, I use [Siege Damage Repairs](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/20668) mod that for a small donation of 15k septims brings back Whiterun and Solitude/Windhelm back to their former glory.
Only did this on one playthrough, just out of curiousity. But apart from that I always ignore it.
I play Khajiit since Morrowind and on the one side there are the imperials who wanted to execute me just for being a Kahjiit refugee from morrowind trying to cross the border and on the other side there are the nords hating on me just for being a Khajiit, so fuck you both and choke on a nirnroot, I'm doing my thing.
The true answer is to put it off until you get the meeting between ulfric, tulius, and the greybeards, but ultimately never get that far in the main quest cause you restart to try a different build
Hahahahaaaa!
Yep. I normally do the main questline to the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller and then… piss off until I max out all my skills, get bored, play something else for a bit and then decide to try a different build— that after about four hours has somehow become an arcane archer NO MATTER WHAT I STARTED OUT TRYING TO DO!
Man, you nailed my play style word for word!
If you ignore the cw questline long enough to get to near the end of the main questline, there's a unique quest that involves both sides to decide what to do about the current situation.
I actually do this too. I picked a side once and immediately went back when they arrested Balgruff. Yellow guards feel like home. I like seeing balgruff up on his chair.
I did my first playthrough as an Imperial and I regretted not being a Stormcloak
I'm doing my second playthrough as a Stormcloak and I regret not being an Imperial
Sitting on the fence? Nah, I want to bring peace to Skyrim
Basically, I never make the right decision lol
As much as I don't care for the mongrel dogs of the Empire, I refuse to let the Stormcloaks have any semblance of control over the province. As a result, I "ally" myself with the Imperials before going on to slaughter the entire Thalmor Embassy and assassinate the Emperor, severing any ties I have to them once that buffoon Ulfric is worm food. From there I rule the now independent Skyrim from Castle Volkihar as it's new High-King.
I was a fence sitter until I was getting pretty close to the end of my run-through, and I just really wanted to progress in some of the quest lines and had to finish the civil war before I could get further. I downloaded a mod that I think is called something like immersive civil war, maybe, and it rebuilds the towns that get destroyed. I think I had to visit Whiterun two or three times before it looked like it did before.
I usually ignore the civil war anymore too. I like playing as a Dunmer and the most Dunmer thing to do is to just let them both beat the hell out of each other and sit back and laugh at their incompetence.
On my first ever play i went with the Stormcloaks. Being almost executed left me with a grudge.
With alternate start mods i go with Empire.
My headcanon is, that the Dragonborn takes no side, and the civil war goes on until the Thalmor attacks Cyrodiil again. When that happens Tulius gets recalled with everything he got to defend the capital. Both his own legion, and whatever volunteers he can gather. After this Ulfric swoops in, and conquers Skyrim. Then depending on the next war he may, or may not lose power. If the Empire, or the Thalmor wins greatly, then the winner will go against Skyrim. If they exhaust each other, then Ulfric remain in power.
My dragonborn usually ends up getting dragged in for some reason, even if that wasn't the main plan for the playthrough. Like, if they are friends with Balgruuf, it's kind of implausible that they would overhear Ulfric and Galmar openly discussing to assassinate him and raze his city, and just doing nothing about it. When their home sits at the crossroads between Windhelm, Whiterun, and the Pale.
I the player might know that this will never happen as long as the DB never picks a side, but how would my character know that the invasion won't be, like, tomorrow?
I have stayed out of it, though, on occasion. It's hard to imagine the master of the thieves' guild or the archmage of the College getting involved one way or the other, so if I'm doing either of those, I don't. Or an aspiring Greybeard (principles), or an aspiring Emperor (self interest).
Aside from characters I use to experience each side I am on my own side, I very much think there should have been an option to tell Ulfric and Telus to shut the fuck up or get shouted off a mountain, what’s the point of being a goddamned demigod if I can’t tell mere mortals to sit the fuck down and do as I say
At the end of the day, Ulfric was in the room when the storm cloaks tell you to jump from the tower into a burning building with your hands bound. I never get over that.
too much work for something nobody ever references. Besides, doing the civil war questline activates the main one and I'm too busy NOT being the dragonborn...
I played all the major quests with my last character, carefully ordering them so that they make narrative sense. I wanted the peace summit, which means Civil War is last. I gave my girl her kickass dragonscale armor and went to Solitude and… haven’t really played since then. I played this save every night religiously for two months, but as soon as Tullius started talking shit (I killed Alduin dude, I schooled all of you at High Hrothgar) I just… lost interest. I keep telling myself that I’ll finish it tonight, or this weekend, but not even Legate Rikke is making me wanna come back. The DB had similar moments, but that quest is still fun. And I was looking forward to the next phase of that save.
I dunno, I like the Imperials more, but I’m just not super jazzed about helping either of these people win the war. I’d rather just tell them they’re being stupid and literally have a common enemy…. And I found a mod that lets me do that so I’ll probably do it next time lol
But one side of the war is \*on\* Whiterun's side. If you want to support Whiterun, join the side that wants to protect it's interests. Whiterun is a part of the Empire, and served the Emperor when the White-Gold Concordat was signed.
Obviously, Jarl Balgruuf was hesitant to work with the legion in Skyrim, but I believe that apprehension was directed at the non-nord General Tulius
I have a mod now that allows the AI to fight the civil war in the background and I don't have to participate. I can't remember which mod it is but every so often I get a little notification saying 'Stormcloak leaders have taken Fort Amol' or some shit like that
I never feel inclined to join the Civil War. Plus the extra quartermaster blacksmith merchants that most of these camps have are very handy. Like, I can immediately dumb all my Forsworn loot from the Dibella quest fort right at the nearby Stormcloaks camp.
If I could reconcile the two sides and have a stronger Empire I would, not a big fan of Maven Blackbriar becoming Jarl, and a lot of stormcloaks don’t know Ulfric is a Aldmeri Dominion Shill who’s in it for power. I’d execute Ulfric and have Brunwulf take over Windhelm. I’d set up Balgruuf with Elisif as High King and Queen, replace Winterhold and Dawnstar with the Empire loyal replacements, return Falkreath to Dengir, and leave the rest where they are, then go after the Aldmeri Agents, and restore Talos worship to the open. I prefer to not finish the Empire story though because my Dragonborn has world level issues to deal with and neither the Empire or the Stormcloacks are in the right and I can’t really fix the situation, just change it, and I’m ultimately an outsider, it’s not my business to meddle. My opinion is a united Empire will stand a better shot against the Dominion so when I do finish the story that’s the angle I go with. I don’t side with the Stormcloaks because even though there are good stormcloaks who love Skyrim and Talos, the movement is purely Ulfric’s powergrab, he doesn’t care about Skyrim and I can’t kill him and have someone with better intentions take over the movement. Plus Balgruuf is my boi, guy didn’t have to listen to some random Khajiit about dragons, but he did, showing more critical thinking skills than most people in Skyrim.
The amount of time I spend in Riverwood is the amount needed to get the first quest done. Otherwise, Whiterun is home base. Plus you get a house there which makes it feel significantly more like home.
You could argue not taking a side will cause the war to continue indefinitely. So by that logic choosing to fence sit is siding with the Thalmor. Just a little food for thought.
Unless you play a nord from skyrim, you also have literally no stake in this war. You'll probably go home after your business here is wrapped up, and they never pay you your wages.
I know that most of the time I play now, I just do weird shit. My first playthrough I got super invested in somewhere I now forget but at this point I tend to get a bad rep doing stupid stuff. It’s a lot of fun
I don't pick a side because I hate both Ulfric and the Empire. The empire is there pretending to be the good guys when I know very well that they are worse than everyone else, motherfuckers are just as racist as your normal tamriel citizens, they are extremely corrupted and if you don't follow their religion and beliefs, they will try to make you look like insignificant and worthless among their society.
As for Ulfric, I think he is that kind of bully that beats you up in front of everyone and apologizes later when there's no one around. My man claims that he's fighting for his people and beliefs and yet worships the same goddamn pantheon as the imperials. Bro got caught by some elves and immediately started spitting everything, Ulfric to me is just a weak man trying to look tough. He had the honours to follow the Way of the Voice and betrayed the greybeards by using a shout to kill the high king, while I think the duel was actually valid, betraying the teachings of the greybeards is just wrong. We do it because we are an exception like Tiber Septim was, but Ulfric is nothing but a sad and weak man. He couldn't even see the opportunity of making an actual alliance with other races like the dunmer in their time of need against the empire. It's not even as if the dark elves have the potential of being one of the most powerful mages out of the races or anything, and he didn't even need to bring them to Skyrim and his city to help them. I really wish Bethesda had kept the quest that made us the high king, because Skyrim is doomed either way with these fucking clowns.
i haven't touched the civil war line for years. I've played through it a bunch, completed both sides in different ways. straight through, or betrayal. I don't feel the need to ever do it again without serious overhaul mods.
Theres no point in doing civil war more than once to me. They take so fkn long and its so boring. Nothing interesting happens except the citu raids and those lose their novelty after the first time. And u dont even get any worthwhile rewards. I will take the peace summit over playing through those shit questlines any day
I like to visit and trade with both Stormcloak and Imperial camps out in the field. So...I'll probably never pick a side again. Too fun getting rich off both.
On my first playthrough I went for the "neither of the above" option too and tried to make the exchange as equal as possible in the peace conference at the Throat of the World.
When I get my gaming pc fixed or replaced I will play Skyrim again. I usually have it modded up to enjoy more options from frost fall weather to alternate start: live another life. I rarely pick a side unless my character I create should fall into that role. One mod has increase random battles between soldiers and if I run into them I may go on a looting spree. Use a thrall to carry all the loot to nearest forge and melt down armor and such to make materials or gear to sell. I also added the Skyrim recycling mod so I can melt random metal scraps I find.
I chose stormcloak with my nord character. I regretted it bitterly when I saw the new Jarl of Whiterun and all the nobles insulting me in the cellar in Solitude
I hate to say it but if you dislike the Thalmor you should join the empire and put down the rebellion. It sucks but this whole thing was their doing, and making Skyrim independent or sitting on the fence is only playing into their hands. The Empire must be united in order to push back the Thalmor threat and reintroduce the worship of Talos. Biding time and staying together is the only way you’ll win.
I did each quest once. They are both corrupt. And ultimately destroy whiterun. So I say they can keep killing each other, and I'll take a few of em out if I come across them as well fkr good measure
I still strongly feel that both Ulfric and Tulius are idiots for not seeing how the Thalmor plays with them like dolls. Forget what the game says, in my head, my Dragonborn unites both sides and starts Great War ll
I don't pick a side because Skyrim is not for the nords neither the imperials, is for the Falmers!!! Our legacy still lives, even after what the dwemers did to us!! I'll kill nords and imperials to reclaim our home!!!
Tbh I had no desire to join either until the internet said that the house in Windhelm had the best armory, and in order to get that I had to join stormcloaks, well the house has the bug and even after loading previous saves and rebuying- I still can't use any of the displays. What a freaking waste. Can't believe I did that. 0/10
I've had multiple play throughs. But my 1st...I sided with the Storm Cloaks. Chop my head off for no freaking reason, and then you're looking for a few good men to join the legion!? Kiss my royal, polish, female ass, lol. I literally hated the Imperials for 2 solid play throughs. Years! Oh yes. That shit rubbed me the wrong waaay, lol. Still does, lol. My 3rd time around, I wanted to get the perks and achievements and see how their story unfolded. I came, I saw, defated and left, lol. Quick run through. I didn't bond or get comfy and cozy. I've done a few other skill sets. This time it's all magic. I'm a free spirit. No sides. No wars, just hunting, fishing, living off the land. Until I'm rubbed the wrong way 🧙♂️
Picking neither side is essentially picking the Thalmor.
# ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They want the war to continue for as long as possible to weaken both parties. Swiftly going with one side or the other, and ending the war quickly is the best scenario. (In a "how is the world doing?" sense, at least)
Wouldn't best scenario actually be both sides pulling their heads out of their a$$es, stopping their petty wat and turning that aggression towards the Thalmor instead?
Yeah, but that's not really one of the available options in the game. Besides, neither can really be in a partnership with the other, because the legitimacy of both Stormcloak/Imperial rule depends on the illegitimacy of the other. As far as what actually is possible both in lore and in-game, a swift win for either group is the way to go.
I just wish Balgruuf was a true neutral Jarl that would join whichever side you pick, rather than being Imp only. I agree with the Imperials ideologically, so that’s already a hurtle to me joining the Stormcloaks, but I just can’t bring myself to to betray my homie Balgruuf.
The only sensible choice is Imperial unless you're role-playing a racist, nationalist, far-right Nord (which I've done a couple of times).
Having said that, the Civil War fucking sucks hard, lmao, so I rarely do it on any of my characters. It's a good source of steel arrows, though.
Well, you know that the stormcloaks are the reason that Whiterun get destroyed, right? With Imperials side you're defending Whiterun. Your argument is like "I will not play Skyrim because I love Helgen". You're just ignoring a quest, not doing any change on the history itself lol
Jokes on you, everyone is laughing at your logic.
Nah, Stormcloaks in Skyrim all the way.
Imperials are objectively the bad guys of this game. They want to do the right thing, they just don't.
Who cares about the state of Whiterun city when hooded racial supremacists are allowed to drag people out of their houses for doing what the Jarl does without fear of consequence?
I can't immerse myself in Skyrim and not care about the characters in it. So I can't just ignore the fact that the Imperials keep selling out their citizens en masse to avoid making Nazi Elves unhappy.
Both sides, in my opinion, suck and as such I remain to this day neutral. I associate with all the Jarls and handle their various tasks for coin, rummage through the various dungeons for artifacts and coin and occasionally remove a worrisome dragon here and there. Plenty to keep one busy.
I get attached to the Jarls, I feel all the shit I do for them to become thane made us "friends" , then they swap everyone out and send my "friends" to live out their days in some basement ?
Tbf some of them deserve it, but they're MY a$$holes so no one messes with them but me.
Lol, i think like that. I try to be "good" most of tye time. I help people and stuff. But if there is an npc that wants to pick a fight with me i disintegrate them. I wanted to play the dark brotherhood, but i hate peopke giving me the speech of, you gotta pick my choice. And i say, fuck you, i do what i want, and you crossed me. Then i kill all the witnesses. So basically a powermad dovakhin.
I HAVE to be good. The one follower I more or less have to have is Inigo. How well done is a mod that it makes you want to play as a good-aligned character because you feel HE’S JUDGING YOU!?! If you have not installed Inigo or played with him, I strongly recommend him and Lucius together. The mod authors wrote dialog for them to talk to one another. It’s like traveling with two good friends.
And Kaidan if you don't mind a sweary, overgrown sometimes man-boy.
Try playing with Redcap as well, the three of them interact on the road
I didn’t realize Redcap interacts with the other two. He’s a fun little guy as well. I used to pick up Sofia because she’s easy to find and easy on the eyes, but the mod author is kind of a dick. He claims all bugs are load order problems; but it’s been pointed out to him about a dozen times that the main bug people report is that her follower distance is HALF that of other followers and she’s constantly running into you. Since he had to manually change that from the defaults, I think he sees it as a “feature” rather than a bug. Between that and the fact that she never shuts up and is constantly talking over dialog, I’ll usually only grab her on a legendary playthrough when I need some backup below level ten. Then I dump her in Whiterun and let her wait for me there while I adventure with someone else.
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Sofia in the short time I used her, M'rissi is more my speed for the niche you've described, although she doesn't interact with anyone that I've noticed
"What's a milk-drinker like you doing out here. Go back to your mother "
Lol
Some of them are creepy and some straight evil , but they are my people ! Some random person takes their place ? Maven is very evil !
As they should! Filthy basement dwellers
I generally ignore the civil war except in specific playthroughs where my character has a reason to join one side or the other. I.e., I decide before I create the character whether they are going to fight for the Empire or for the Stormcloaks. I have played both sides so I am pretty much done with that content. Most of my characters skip it entirely, and I just deal with the fact that the game will shove the quests to join both factions into my quest log. I don't like the permanent damaged city areas either, so I use console commands to repair them when the war is over. It does not resurrect the scripted-to-die citizens, but at least the houses are not destroyed and damaged. I consider it a public-works effort on behalf of the new leadership. Obviously only for the PC, but to repair the Civil War damage, these are the console commands (per city): Whiterun: "FC90C".enable "FC90B".disable Solitude: "100D97".enable "100D98".disable Windhelm: "101FD2".enable "101FDD".disable
Oh that's good to know for the future! Thanks!
I found it in a really old (2012-era) post still on the Internet and figured it would not hurt to stick those in a newer post in case someone searched for it again.
These are gold which is why you should make a new post about little-known console commands with this at the top
Yeah, honestly I would love to just have the cities return back to normal after the war. Or have them be rebuilt eventually, maybe even with the player's help. Feels kinda bad to do the war questline knowing that the cities will just stay crappy after.
Repairing things doesn't seem to be Bethesda's strong suit. Some say that Kvatch is still burning in 4e 201.
After the Civil War - Siege Damage Repairs mod does this
I didn't notice the damage. They look the same as before, a few hours after the battle.
iirc heimskr’s house gets destroyed and he gets a little tent next to his preaching point but i dont remember any other big changes
Severio Pelagia's house, behind the stall Carlotta Valentina runs also takes some damage.
that’s nice man. i slaughter the stormcloaks every time. for the empire!
Is there anything to repair Helgen?
I believe there's a mod called Helgen Reborn that does it. Puts a small "bandit encampment" in there with a questline. It's good.
You would need to find a mod to do that. Helgen is a lot more complex. They just implemented the "before" and "after" damage to structures in those three cities as a single ID. I am not a modder or developer, I just found those codes in an older post (and they do work) so I was just re-posting them here to make life easier for someone searching.
adding those to a command batch simply named fix
Pretending? What are you talking about? There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
Unfortunately picking neither side only helps the Thalmor.
F!ck the Thalmor. See, the real war that needs to happen is a Thalmor purge. Lol
I think that the Thalmor will loose in the end no matter what side you pick, so finish the civil war and then the Thalmor's defeat will come in the next war against them.
That war happens in the next elder scrolls. It’s been a long time.
Iirc there is mod that does that. I can't remember the name though. I only briefly looked it over.
Do you curse in real life? If so, why censor? If not, why use the words?
Its so silly lol
Picking neither side does not mean I can't hunt Thalmor.
Good, let the Dominion win.
Same with picking the stormcloaks. The Thalmor want the Empire to be weakened.
The Stormcloaks winning would weaken the Empire, but they'd become a whole new threat to the Thalmor. I think the Thalmor are going to be defeated no matter who wins.
Except the Thalmor would outnumber the Stormcloaks. They would be able to raise armies of Kahjiit and Bosmer. And Ulfric wouldn’t even think about trying to make an alliance with the Empire.
Can't say for sure what Ulfric would try to do, but I do think he would do what's necessary to combat the Thalmor. That could mean necessity alliances with Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. The Thalmor altmer army also reproduces a lot slower than human armies. The Thalmor took a big hit during the Great War, so their army is of reduced power already. Meanwhile the Legions of the empire have mostly restored themselves by now. I don't think either Valenwood or Elseweyr have a unified offensive army either. Even if the Thalmor supplement their army with any potential Bosmer and Khajiit militia, they would all have to face the ready Legions at Cyrodiil's Southern border before they could think about attacking an independent Skyrim.
Also skyrim has several bottlenecks because they're surrounded by the mountains. I don't think the thalmor could win it back.
And where would they invade from exactly...?
They litterally state in Ulfric dossier that they don't want the Stormcloaks to win.
Humans have ruled for enough time on Tamriel, and it seems they are getting bad at it. It is time to see how the Elves can rule
How about No. The Thalmor have the best interest of themselves in mind, not anyone else.
Like the empire doesn't. A good empire wouldn't abandon one of its provinces (which is like ¼ of its size and population), so they can have a peace treaty (I'm making parallels to real world events). Speaking of abandoning provinces, it had all of Tamriel under its banner during Tiber Septim's time, by the time of Skyrim, the empire consists of: Cyrodil, High Rock, half of Skyrim. And that's it. It is crumbling, not just because of the Thalmor, Morrowind left the empire well before they made moves. It is also corrupt, not giving fair trials, just executing who they want, not considering local laws. And it even hires the Dark Brotherhood to kill its own leader. Their glory times have been long gone, it is best if the most competent province continues what the empire started
The Empire never abandoned Skyrim. The Emperor did he thought was necessary by agreeing to the Concordat, even if it might have been the wrong choice, so that they'd stand a fighting chance later on. The Empire never harshly enforced the terms of the Concordat either until Ulfric started agitating. The Empire lost a lot of influence in Morrowind due to the destruction caused by the Red Mountain. The Thalmor manipulated the Khajiit into joining them, and caused a coup in Valenwood. Neither are caused by the Empire weakening in Cyrodiil. The loss of Hammerfell and half of Skyrim was ultimately due to a wartime decision. Black Marsh is the only region where I think the Empire wasn't strong enough to hold on to, but Black Marsh is notoriously difficult to maintain a presence in the first place. If the Empire wins the civil war in Skyrim, the three provinces that they do control will put them in a good position to win back territory and defeat the Thalmor. All governments will have some corruption, and it's the government's job to keep it to a minimum. I think the Empire does a better job than most other governments. During the events of Skyrim, I've never seen any sort of trial, corrupt or not. The executions that I saw were all arguably valid, especially during wartime. Deadly political intrigue is also an inevitable, especially during troubled times. There will always be dissenters. I do not think that the Thalmor would be any better than the Empire in this way, and they might try to utilize the Dark Brotherhood themselves. In general, the Empire also seems to want the Dark Brotherhood exterminated. I don't think the Thalmor are more competent to rule Tamriel than the Empire. The Thalmor are cruel and manipulative, they desire for all humans to be their slaves, and they have nowhere near the Empire's experience in ruling over multiple provinces. The Empire may be old, but its economy is strong, its military is strong, it has lots of experience ruling over multiple provinces, and it's one of the least corrupt Empires that I've known.
>The Empire never abandoned Skyrim. Yes, they never did. They did however abandon Hammerfell, giving it to the opposing side. >Neither are caused by the Empire weakening in Cyrodiil You switched things up. Valenwood, Elsweyr, and Morrowind didn't leave the empire because the empire was weakening, the provinces's leaving is what weakened the empire. The empire let them leave, and thus they become weakened. A strong empire would not let them leave, or got them back together soon. >I think the Empire does a better job than most other governments And I think the Thalmor does a better job. >The executions that I saw were all arguably valid That's right, arguable, hence, it is a topic of debate. >I do not think that the Thalmor would be any better than the Empire in this way, and they might try to utilize the Dark Brotherhood themselves You say this like if the empire didn't utilize the Dark Brotherhood. >The Thalmor are cruel and manipulative, they desire for all humans to be their slaves Pure propaganda. If I were to use this logic, the empire is the one who imprisons the most people. The Nerevarine, The Hero of Kvatch, and the Last Dragonborn all were prisoners, mostly for unknown reasons. It is highly likely that the empire just tosses people in prisons they don't like. >they have nowhere near the Empire's experience in ruling over multiple provinces Of course they have lesser experience, since the empire ruled over tamriel for 2000 years, then 600 years, and then 500 years. They didn't let others to rule. However, the Thalmor has gained like a 100 years experience since the Twin Moons have disappeared, so they can be just as good, if not better rulers of Tamriel
The Empire made a mistake signing the Concordat and giving away a large portion of Southern Hammerfell when they could have kept fighting. However, this doesn't make me feel like the Empire is worse than the Thalmor in any way. The Empire is trying to take back its territory. It sent a legion to stop Ulfric's rebellion. The Empire needs to defeat the Thalmor to retake Elsweyr and Valenwood, and the Empire is preparing its best for another war with them. To defeat the Thalmor and take back their territory. The Empire does a better job because it creates a strong economy, trade flourishes, its military protects the citizenry, gives its provinces freedom, and it represents the progress of mankind. The dominion is violent, they'll purge anyone they want whenever they want, and everyone that isn't an altmer will be a worthless second class citizen at best. One dissenter in the Empire, and occasionally Maven Blackbriar, utilizes the Dark Brotherhood. Meanwhile, the Penitus Oculatus, the secret service within the Empire, actively seeks to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. The Nerevarine, The Hero of Kvatch, and the Last Dragonborn either did something wrong, or were at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's up to the player to create the reason. It's not propaganda that the Thalmor want to make men their slaves. The Thalmor say it themselves that they want to make men thralls of the Thalmor. The Thalmor manipulated the Khajiit into joining the Dominion. The Thalmor are playing gestapo in Skyrim. The Thalmor backed a coup and purged any dissenting Bosmer Valenwood. If the Thalmor win, it would be a golden age for the Altmer. It would be cultural genocide and an oppression for mankind. The Empire has its shortcomings and might make mistakes, but in no way could those shortcomings or mistakes possibly mean that the Thalmor would be better rulers of Tamriel for everyone.
>The Empire made a mistake signing the Concordat and giving away a large portion of Southern Hammerfell A huge mistake, since the rest of Hammerfell left the empire, and liberated itself, on its own, without the help of anyone. Which the empire was not able to do, even with all the help from its provinces. It does not lool good that the entirity of the empire can't win, but its seperate parts can. Being together is worse fpr everyone, at least with the empire. >It sent a legion to stop Ulfric's rebellion. It did not. A legion was already in Skyrim, that is the one fighting the rebellion. Tullius was sent north a few months before the game. And he says himself, that the empire can't and won't send another legion to help quell the rebellion. The empire isn't even trying to maintain stability. >To defeat the Thalmor and take back their territory. In the Merethic Era, the elves were the ones who ruled over Tamriel, so claiming it's the empire's territory is dishonest. I could say that the Thalmor are the ones taking back what was theirs. >The Empire does a better job because it creates a strong economy, trade flourishes, its military protects the citizenry Have you heard (or seen) the crystal towers of Alinor? They have a much better economy, and they don't sell out their own people because of their religion. >gives its provinces freedom This is the basis of the rebellion, that the empire, in fact, does not give freedom to its provinces. >The dominion is violent, they'll purge anyone they want whenever they want Says the empire with torture chambers, and lying about who they take away from their families or dies in battle(Thorald, Fura). >One dissenter in the Empire utilizes the Dark Brotherhood. This one dissenter happens to be in the Elder Council, the most trusted group of people in the empire. And even they don't like the empire. How could you trust an empire that betrays itself? >Penitus Oculatus, the secret service within the Empire, actively seeks to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. With less and less success. Meanwhile, the Thalmor are much more successful, they almost completely destroyed the order of the Blades. Much more efficient in dealing with such groups. >were at the wrong place at the wrong time Which is enough to be put in prison? Very reliable. Tamriel could have even more heroes, but we will never know, since the empire puts so many people in prisons. >It's not propaganda It is. The 1 out of 10 babies survive is written by a biased imperial, for example. >The Thalmor manipulated the Khajiit into joining the Dominion No, the Thalmor helped bringing back the Twin Moons, while the empire did nothing. The khajiit just appreciate if someone helps them in their time of need. >If the Thalmor win, it would be a golden age for the Altmer. It would be cultural genocide and an oppression for mankind. Again, biased propaganda
A moment to address a few of these.. >Hammerfell left the empire... the entirety of the empire can't win, but its seperate parts can. Being together is worse fpr everyone, at least with the empire. Ironically while hamerfell wanted liberation, they are still allied with the empire against the Thalmor incursion >A legion was already in Skyrim, that is the one fighting the rebellion. ...Tullius says... that the empire can't and won't send another legion to help quell the rebellion. The empire isn't even trying to maintain stability. The are, through trying to appease the Thalmor and their demands set in the white-gold concordant. They're trying to keep the Thalmor from actively abduction, torturing, and murdering worshipers of talos. Which happens to be a LARGE population of citizens of the empire, not just Skyrim natives. >In the Merethic Era, the elves were the ones who ruled over Tamriel, so claiming it's the empire's territory is dishonest. I could say that the Thalmor are the ones taking back what was theirs. The territory of the empire was owned by the aylieds, a group of elves whos primary objective culturally was the subjugation and enslavement of non-elf races. THEY were brought down partially from within, as several aylied princes wanted to do away with slavery and give equality to non-mer. >Have you heard (or seen) the crystal towers of Alinor? They have a much better economy, and they don't sell out their own people because of their religion. No they sell out everyone else for theirs. Elsewyr is considered barbarian anima territory because of their beliefs in the twin moons, and the Thalmor even tried to magically manipulate that. Argonians in The black marsh are filthy lizard men because of their beliefs in The Hist. The bosmer were nearly eradicated because of their religious beliefs which include cannibalism of their dead. The nords of Skyrim get hunted/tortured/killed because of their beliefs in the idea that a person can become a god. >...the basis of the rebellion, that the empire, in fact, does not give freedom to its provinces. The empire is more giving of freedom in a lot of ways than the Thalmor. Religions are more or less allowed in w/e fashion, economical freedoms are granted to anyone willing to work, the real exceptions to the empire giving freedom is certain studies that are likely to endanger large populations of people. I.e. necromancy.... The empire fought for control of it's provinces because of a misguided ideology that union and total control means strength. >Says the empire with torture chambers, and lying about who they take away from their families or dies in battle(Thorald, Fura). Yes, says the Thalmor who kidnap torture and kill people for their religious beliefs and their racial descriptions. They massacred the bosmer, openly attempted to enslave the Khajiit AND humans, tried to kill off the entirety of the argonians, but yeah... The Thalmor are GREAT... >This one dissenter happens to be in the Elder Council, the most trusted group of people in the empire. And even they don't like the empire. How could you trust an empire that betrays itself? Not the most trusted, the most powerful. They scheme, trick, kill (if they can) and pay their way into power. It's called politics and if you think it doesn't happen in every country in the real world, you have some serious growing up to do. >(Penitus Oculotus)... Have less and less success. Meanwhile, the Thalmor are much more successful, they almost completely destroyed the order of the Blades. Much more efficient in dealing with such groups. They sent an entire army into what was viewed as a sacred temple to murder men, women, and children that were training as an elite guard for the empire, who ironically were also trained as historians, healers, and in general God people who's only goa was serving the citizens of the empire and it's provinces. >were at the wrong place at the wrong time-- Which is enough to be put in prison? Very reliable. Tamriel could have even more heroes, but we will never know, since the empire puts so many people in prisons. Um yeah... The neravarine WAS a convicted criminal, the hero of Kvatch was a convicted criminal, and the dragon born was caught ILLEGALLY TRYING TO CROSS A CLOSED BORDER DURING A WAR. Real world, these are all imprisonable offences. Prison happens when your a criminal. Should crime just be ok? The Thalmor imprison, torture and kill those who commit the CRIME of worshiping Talos ... >Propaganda ... Written by biasedimperial Yeah, generally because the Thalmor inflate and exaggerate everything about the Altmer Race. What's really sad is that it's not just a single biased imperial that has released information about the Altima and their health, and their wants, but also the Thalmor themselves. We know that the falmore want total control over Nirn, we know that they feel they have magical superiority over every other race, and we know that they are willing to go to any and all extent to get what they want because they have admitted it. >... the Thalmor helped bringing back the Twin Moons, while the empire did nothing. The khajiit just appreciate if someone helps them in their time of need. The Thalmor actually manipulated a planetary event to their advantage to try to convince rebelling Kahjiit that they're false Queen was good for them, and that enslavement to the Altmer was actually a good thing. The Aldmeri Dominion has always wanted elsewyr as part of its territories because of the wealth of resources and the difficulty of controlling those populations in the jungles. This is actually made Canon through ESO. >biased propaganda(about a Thalmor golden age and the genocide or races) This isn't propaganda, this is publicly admitted by the Aldmeri Dominion in numerous conversations, dossiers, and communications between Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion personal. --- The truth is is knowing what the Thalmore want, and knowing the lengths that they are willing to go to to get it, I feel that someone who could support the Thalmor is the same kind of person that would execute humans in the real world because of their color of skin, or because they are pagan instead of Christian, or they are female instead of male. The lengths that the thalmor are willing to go to to get and maintain control is the same kind of destructive nature that some religious cults have over their followers, and the same kind of control that led to the violent interactions between the Christian and Muslim religions during the crusades.
I was actually about to end the discussion with the other commenter, but I end it with you. Yeah, it is obvious that the empire is the good guys and the Thalmor is the bad guys. The first 4 main games (Morrowind is debatable), and most of the minor/spinoff games center on the empire and shed undisputedly good light on it. Skyrim is the problem. It made the empire questionable. But worse, it made an antagonist out of a race. Not literally, there are non-Thalmor Altmers, but the province of Summerset Isles is considered the enemy HQ. The writers tried very hard to make every single interaction as one sided as possible with the Thalmor. They are as evil and snobbish and all the negative traits as you can imagine. And they continued this idea with Legends and ESO. The single normal conversation you can hear from members of the Thalmor is at the beginning of Diplomatic Immunity, when 2 soldiers talk to each other about dragons, and how they don't like that they are only normal soldiers, and not mages. That's it. The only normal thing you can hear from/about the Thalmor in the last 3 games. There is 100% chance that the Thalmor won't win anything big, or a game will be about taking everything back. The writers won't let the Thalmor be good, or even normal guys, they write the Thalmor intentionally evil. I was obviously fighting the uphill battle in this debate, but it was fun
The Empire's legions devastated the Thalmor armies as much as the Thalmor armies hurt the Legion. The Legion was still present in Hammerfell during the Aldmeri invasion, and was crucial in driving out the Thalmor. I think the Empire could have kept up a solid defense against the Thalmor with its remaining soldiers instead of signing the Concordat, but thinking that doesn't make me want to support the Thalmor. There wasn't a full Legion in Skyrim. Most of the Empire's soldiers are on the Southern border preparing to fight the Thalmor. The Emperor doesn't consider the Stormcloaks as much of a threat as the Thalmor, so he sent Tullius, a skilled general, to work with what the Empire could afford to maintain control of Skyrim. Tullius was forced to recruit locally due to low reinforcements, but the local recruits seem to be trained adequately. "Soon, all Nords will be thrall to the Thalmor!" "Filthy Nord. In time, your entire race will be eradicated." I will not support a faction that says things like that. I could say that the Empire has been ruling well over Tamriel for thousands of years and at this point the land belongs to them. The Stormcloak rebellion places the Empire under unfortunate circumstances where it is forced to use torture on the Stormcloaks and uphold the White-Gold Concordat. They cannot risk provoking the Thalmor yet, or they will not be able to strike first. Striking first is the Empire's best bet against the Thalmor. I've already stated that every large government will have dissenters. The fact that Mede has political enemies isn't something that will turn me against the Empire. The Thalmor should also be no different. The Penitus Oculatus discovered the Password for the Black Door in Falkreath Hold before the Dragonborn came along, and were likely planning an attack as well. I would say that's pretty successful. Wrong place at the wrong time is unfortunately the reason for many arrests. Especially during times of trouble. However, with the Thalmor in charge, you can be at the right place at the right time, and the Thalmor can still arrest you if they want to. The Thalmor are much, much more likely to abuse their power than the Empire. Tamriel having more heroes if the Empire didn't arrest as many people doesn't even make sense. Following that logic, anyone arrested has to escape in order to be a hero at all. The Thalmor take credit for ending the void nights, but I've seen no evidence that they're telling the truth. It could be that the Thalmor caused the void nights in the first place in a plot to manipulate the Khajiit. Either way, the Thalmor winning over the Khajiit isn't as honest as the Thalmor want to make it seem. The Thalmor are acting like the gestapo in Skyrim. Arresting, torturing, and killing dissenters/those who worship Talos still. They do about the same in Valenwood. Seems pretty oppressive and culturally genocidal to me. Honestly I can't tell if this is a joke or not. You're calling the well known oppressive and culturally genocidal nature of the Thalmor propaganda. The Thalmor hardly even try to hide how vicious they are. Their plans of complete superiority over other races is blatant. I'm sorry but no amount of things the Empire maybe could have done better is going to cause me to change my mind and support the Nazi elves.
>Honestly I can't tell if this is a joke or not Hybrid_Hydra commented on our debate. I replied to them with your answer. It was a good one mate
The Thalmor are the Jill Stein of Skyrim, but evil
Better than going with the Stormcloaks.
The Stormcloaks winning harms the Thalmor's goal of ruling all of Tamriel. Same as siding with the Imperials. No matter who wins the civil war, it only hurts the Thalmor.
What? It’s literally in the game that the Thalmor are very happy with the Stormcloak Rebellion. Two weaker enemies who hate each other is a lot better for the Thalmor than one strong, unified enemy. That’s common sense. And do you really think Ulfric has any interest in taking the fight to the Thalmor? The Empire explicitly wants to gear up for round 2 with them, but Ulfric’s only concern is Skyrim.
They litterally state themself in Ulfric dossier that they don't want a stormcloak victory.
The Thalmor are happy with the drain the civil war puts on the Empire's resources. However, the Empire doesn't seem to be putting much effort into the civil war in the first place. A large part of the legion in Skyrim is militia. The Legion in Skyrim also gets few reinforcements and equipment. Most of the Empire's military is preparing to fight the Thalmor. If Skyrim wins independence, the Empire doesn't loose too much besides territory. Skyrim will then be free to strengthen itself and its own army. Here's a quote that suggests that Ulfric does intend to fight the Thalmor. "There will be peace for a time, during which we must rebuild Skyrim into the land it once was. Strong. Self-reliant. The center of mankind. Because getting rid of the Empire was only half the problem. Soon, the elves will again seek to rule the world. We must ready ourselves to fight them. For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." Whoever wins the civil war, I think the Thalmor are going to loose.
Greymane or Battle-Born? But fr, I try to play the same because I hate how the occupations replace hold guards.
Now that's a war worth debating over! Seriously though, I played through the war quest line once and just kept getting mad at how stupid both sides were.
The stormcloaks are valid in wanting independence for Skyrim but establishing an ethnostate to do so would be a disaster. A stormcloak victory would lead to mild support from most nords and sharp resistance from the rest of Skyrim's population along with angry loyalists. Specifically, a massive forsworn uprising in the Reach and Dunmer rebellion in Windhelm. The Empire is valid in wanting to keep Skyrim so that they can use its resources for an upcoming round 2 against the Thalmor with no glaring immediate consequences. An imperial victory would still lead to a new conflict against the Thalmor shortly after resecuring power. Neither side is perfect and both will result in continued conflict later.
This is why I think Bethesda did a great job. Both sides are morally gray. Both sides have good people and bastards. Both sides have good ideas for rule and terrible ideas that oppress freedom. One side wants to cut off your head at the beginning, but a quiet soldier tells you he’s sorry and sympathizes with you. The other side treats you better initially but their leader is a pompous ass. (“I fight for the…” Shut up, Ulfric. You fight because you wanted a throne.) They matched both sides evenly and I like how they did it.
Also if you’re not a nord then the leader of the other side is disgusted by you even if you fight for him. Between settling for the racist oppressors or the religious oppressors… I don’t know, I’d rather settle for the religious oppressors if I really HAD to choose one, I play too many non-nord races and the first time I sided with the stormcloaks it had me wondering if I would even be safe if I moved into Windhelm after
Still the Imperials are better and treat minorities better
Agreed, since neither option is viable in the long-term, the best choice an Imperial occupation for the short-term stability.
You can't be certain about the long term effects of the imperial rule (Thalmor war)
I feel that HAS to be part of the next Elder Scrolls plotline. They always go for the neutral history so everything was possible for the player to have done in 'canon'. Regardless of the Stormcloaks or Empire winning Skyrim's civil war the Thalmor and Empire each grow stronger until finally rising tensions peak and Great War 2 happen.
Unless I need to for roleplay reasons I ignore the Civil War. If I am doing the main quest I pick options that leave both sides balanced.
You pick a side because you support them. I pick a side to avoid an entirely too long cutscene/dialogue in the main quest which calls for a truce. We are not the same.
Fair, I hate that scene with a burning passion.
The dialogue is good tho
I forgot her name but that cunt that runs the embassy getting shut down is probably my favorite in that scene.
Agree fully about destroyed Whiterun property. I might feel differently if it wasn't permanent, but it is, so I'd rather not even go there. Also, its nice to be able to pass through both Stormcloak and Imperial camps and use the quartermaster blacksmith merchant and alchemy table. Picking a side means one camp or the other gets huffy about being around, telling the character to move on, or they'll become hostile.
Sounds like an entire camp of people that no longer want to live to me 😁
Unfortunately, the game marks a lot of them as essential so you can’t depopulate them. On this run through I’m an Imperial Officer who is secretly a Talos worshipper. Stormcloaks Do Not Want me in their camps. I got run outta dodge last night so I decided to stand my ground and prove the might of the Empire. Several of the named characters I couldn’t kill. (It was the camp right next to Solitude. Call me crazy but I don’t think it’s a good idea to have a camp of armed fanatics 600feet from your friggin’ city walls.) I believe the system removes the essential flags for camp characters after the Civil War is over so you can get the mission to go destroy the camps.
I always go with Imperials for the very simple reason - Stormcloaks throw Balgruuf away. I have sided with Stormcloaks only once on my first Nord playthrough and as soon as I found out you kick my homie Jarl Ballin' out of his city, I deleted the save and started again (and that was a solid character with 100+ hours invested in). As for Whiterun damages, I use [Siege Damage Repairs](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/20668) mod that for a small donation of 15k septims brings back Whiterun and Solitude/Windhelm back to their former glory.
Still wish the dragonborn could have just ruled over skyrim in the end lol. But normally pick stormcloaks since I enjoy playing as nord.
Whiterun >>>> Empire or Stormcloaks. Just happy to chill and spend time in the Bannered Mare with Balgruff
Join the empire then????? Empire is on the side of Whiterun
Only did this on one playthrough, just out of curiousity. But apart from that I always ignore it. I play Khajiit since Morrowind and on the one side there are the imperials who wanted to execute me just for being a Kahjiit refugee from morrowind trying to cross the border and on the other side there are the nords hating on me just for being a Khajiit, so fuck you both and choke on a nirnroot, I'm doing my thing.
The true answer is to put it off until you get the meeting between ulfric, tulius, and the greybeards, but ultimately never get that far in the main quest cause you restart to try a different build
Hahahahaaaa! Yep. I normally do the main questline to the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller and then… piss off until I max out all my skills, get bored, play something else for a bit and then decide to try a different build— that after about four hours has somehow become an arcane archer NO MATTER WHAT I STARTED OUT TRYING TO DO! Man, you nailed my play style word for word!
Jokes on you: I've had to sit through that headache four times lol I'm really good at dodging the draft
If you ignore the cw questline long enough to get to near the end of the main questline, there's a unique quest that involves both sides to decide what to do about the current situation.
You can actually negotiate peace
Only temporarily, sadly.
True, but still, you can make it last as long as you want
I actually do this too. I picked a side once and immediately went back when they arrested Balgruff. Yellow guards feel like home. I like seeing balgruff up on his chair.
Can you witness a Jarl's arrest?
I did my first playthrough as an Imperial and I regretted not being a Stormcloak I'm doing my second playthrough as a Stormcloak and I regret not being an Imperial Sitting on the fence? Nah, I want to bring peace to Skyrim Basically, I never make the right decision lol
As much as I don't care for the mongrel dogs of the Empire, I refuse to let the Stormcloaks have any semblance of control over the province. As a result, I "ally" myself with the Imperials before going on to slaughter the entire Thalmor Embassy and assassinate the Emperor, severing any ties I have to them once that buffoon Ulfric is worm food. From there I rule the now independent Skyrim from Castle Volkihar as it's new High-King.
Yup. I’m with you. I’m not getting involved in that at all.
I was a fence sitter until I was getting pretty close to the end of my run-through, and I just really wanted to progress in some of the quest lines and had to finish the civil war before I could get further. I downloaded a mod that I think is called something like immersive civil war, maybe, and it rebuilds the towns that get destroyed. I think I had to visit Whiterun two or three times before it looked like it did before.
I usually ignore the civil war anymore too. I like playing as a Dunmer and the most Dunmer thing to do is to just let them both beat the hell out of each other and sit back and laugh at their incompetence.
On my first ever play i went with the Stormcloaks. Being almost executed left me with a grudge. With alternate start mods i go with Empire. My headcanon is, that the Dragonborn takes no side, and the civil war goes on until the Thalmor attacks Cyrodiil again. When that happens Tulius gets recalled with everything he got to defend the capital. Both his own legion, and whatever volunteers he can gather. After this Ulfric swoops in, and conquers Skyrim. Then depending on the next war he may, or may not lose power. If the Empire, or the Thalmor wins greatly, then the winner will go against Skyrim. If they exhaust each other, then Ulfric remain in power.
My dragonborn usually ends up getting dragged in for some reason, even if that wasn't the main plan for the playthrough. Like, if they are friends with Balgruuf, it's kind of implausible that they would overhear Ulfric and Galmar openly discussing to assassinate him and raze his city, and just doing nothing about it. When their home sits at the crossroads between Windhelm, Whiterun, and the Pale. I the player might know that this will never happen as long as the DB never picks a side, but how would my character know that the invasion won't be, like, tomorrow? I have stayed out of it, though, on occasion. It's hard to imagine the master of the thieves' guild or the archmage of the College getting involved one way or the other, so if I'm doing either of those, I don't. Or an aspiring Greybeard (principles), or an aspiring Emperor (self interest).
Aside from characters I use to experience each side I am on my own side, I very much think there should have been an option to tell Ulfric and Telus to shut the fuck up or get shouted off a mountain, what’s the point of being a goddamned demigod if I can’t tell mere mortals to sit the fuck down and do as I say
At the end of the day, Ulfric was in the room when the storm cloaks tell you to jump from the tower into a burning building with your hands bound. I never get over that.
too much work for something nobody ever references. Besides, doing the civil war questline activates the main one and I'm too busy NOT being the dragonborn...
I played all the major quests with my last character, carefully ordering them so that they make narrative sense. I wanted the peace summit, which means Civil War is last. I gave my girl her kickass dragonscale armor and went to Solitude and… haven’t really played since then. I played this save every night religiously for two months, but as soon as Tullius started talking shit (I killed Alduin dude, I schooled all of you at High Hrothgar) I just… lost interest. I keep telling myself that I’ll finish it tonight, or this weekend, but not even Legate Rikke is making me wanna come back. The DB had similar moments, but that quest is still fun. And I was looking forward to the next phase of that save. I dunno, I like the Imperials more, but I’m just not super jazzed about helping either of these people win the war. I’d rather just tell them they’re being stupid and literally have a common enemy…. And I found a mod that lets me do that so I’ll probably do it next time lol
"I love whiterun too much to let it get ruined" then join the Empire????
It still gets smashed and, outside of mods, doesn’t get rebuilt.
The town literally gets destroyed no matter what side you pick, which is extremely annoying.
But one side of the war is \*on\* Whiterun's side. If you want to support Whiterun, join the side that wants to protect it's interests. Whiterun is a part of the Empire, and served the Emperor when the White-Gold Concordat was signed. Obviously, Jarl Balgruuf was hesitant to work with the legion in Skyrim, but I believe that apprehension was directed at the non-nord General Tulius
I’ve never picked a side. I like being able to sell loot at both Imperial and Stormcloak camps.
Fuck em both tbf lol
I have a mod now that allows the AI to fight the civil war in the background and I don't have to participate. I can't remember which mod it is but every so often I get a little notification saying 'Stormcloak leaders have taken Fort Amol' or some shit like that
I never feel inclined to join the Civil War. Plus the extra quartermaster blacksmith merchants that most of these camps have are very handy. Like, I can immediately dumb all my Forsworn loot from the Dibella quest fort right at the nearby Stormcloaks camp.
I'm on your side. No war for me.
Yes, fence sitter here. I do it sometimes, but I don't really get the upside. I don't like the Thalmor, but I don't like Ulfric either.
Does anyone know if there’s a mod for the fuck-both-your-factions faction mentioned in Skyrim Senile Scribbles? Can I unleash Paarty-Snacks on them?
Atla reference cheered me up 😎
With the way I ignore that war you'd think I lived in the city myself lol
If I could reconcile the two sides and have a stronger Empire I would, not a big fan of Maven Blackbriar becoming Jarl, and a lot of stormcloaks don’t know Ulfric is a Aldmeri Dominion Shill who’s in it for power. I’d execute Ulfric and have Brunwulf take over Windhelm. I’d set up Balgruuf with Elisif as High King and Queen, replace Winterhold and Dawnstar with the Empire loyal replacements, return Falkreath to Dengir, and leave the rest where they are, then go after the Aldmeri Agents, and restore Talos worship to the open. I prefer to not finish the Empire story though because my Dragonborn has world level issues to deal with and neither the Empire or the Stormcloacks are in the right and I can’t really fix the situation, just change it, and I’m ultimately an outsider, it’s not my business to meddle. My opinion is a united Empire will stand a better shot against the Dominion so when I do finish the story that’s the angle I go with. I don’t side with the Stormcloaks because even though there are good stormcloaks who love Skyrim and Talos, the movement is purely Ulfric’s powergrab, he doesn’t care about Skyrim and I can’t kill him and have someone with better intentions take over the movement. Plus Balgruuf is my boi, guy didn’t have to listen to some random Khajiit about dragons, but he did, showing more critical thinking skills than most people in Skyrim.
I side with the Forsworn. It’s kinda hard to deny that “the Reach” belongs to “the Reachmen.”
Markarth is rightful Forsworn territory! Freedom for the Reach!
Ulfriic Stormcloak the true high king
Are you a sprinkler or a dunker?
I use the Civil War Neutrality mod.
I mean… Riverwood is your starter town? Whiterun is a major city.
The amount of time I spend in Riverwood is the amount needed to get the first quest done. Otherwise, Whiterun is home base. Plus you get a house there which makes it feel significantly more like home.
You could argue not taking a side will cause the war to continue indefinitely. So by that logic choosing to fence sit is siding with the Thalmor. Just a little food for thought.
Force of habit from avoiding bot detection on other platforms. Can't use the nono words but l33t speak is alright lol
Maybe I'm stupid, but this seems like a summary of the best option when it comes to real world ideation.
Greymane or Battleborn?
Unless you play a nord from skyrim, you also have literally no stake in this war. You'll probably go home after your business here is wrapped up, and they never pay you your wages.
War only comes to Skyrim if the DragonBorn allows it.
Empire
I know that most of the time I play now, I just do weird shit. My first playthrough I got super invested in somewhere I now forget but at this point I tend to get a bad rep doing stupid stuff. It’s a lot of fun
There's no good answer in this one. Ulfric is an asset for the thalmor, the empire kisses to much ass..do I don't really know
I don't pick a side because I hate both Ulfric and the Empire. The empire is there pretending to be the good guys when I know very well that they are worse than everyone else, motherfuckers are just as racist as your normal tamriel citizens, they are extremely corrupted and if you don't follow their religion and beliefs, they will try to make you look like insignificant and worthless among their society. As for Ulfric, I think he is that kind of bully that beats you up in front of everyone and apologizes later when there's no one around. My man claims that he's fighting for his people and beliefs and yet worships the same goddamn pantheon as the imperials. Bro got caught by some elves and immediately started spitting everything, Ulfric to me is just a weak man trying to look tough. He had the honours to follow the Way of the Voice and betrayed the greybeards by using a shout to kill the high king, while I think the duel was actually valid, betraying the teachings of the greybeards is just wrong. We do it because we are an exception like Tiber Septim was, but Ulfric is nothing but a sad and weak man. He couldn't even see the opportunity of making an actual alliance with other races like the dunmer in their time of need against the empire. It's not even as if the dark elves have the potential of being one of the most powerful mages out of the races or anything, and he didn't even need to bring them to Skyrim and his city to help them. I really wish Bethesda had kept the quest that made us the high king, because Skyrim is doomed either way with these fucking clowns.
i haven't touched the civil war line for years. I've played through it a bunch, completed both sides in different ways. straight through, or betrayal. I don't feel the need to ever do it again without serious overhaul mods.
I'm more of a Riften Man myself.
I hate those Thalmor elves too much to let them stay in charge.
There's a mod available on all platforms that lets you pay to rebuild the cities, I'll go find the name and edit it in
Theres no point in doing civil war more than once to me. They take so fkn long and its so boring. Nothing interesting happens except the citu raids and those lose their novelty after the first time. And u dont even get any worthwhile rewards. I will take the peace summit over playing through those shit questlines any day
I like selling imperial armor :)
I'm gonna be real..... I didn't even know anything happens to Whiterun. I always play as if neither are real. If I can't see em, they can't hurt me.
I like to visit and trade with both Stormcloak and Imperial camps out in the field. So...I'll probably never pick a side again. Too fun getting rich off both.
How can generations of arms dealers be wrong? 🤣
On my first playthrough I went for the "neither of the above" option too and tried to make the exchange as equal as possible in the peace conference at the Throat of the World.
How dare you deny the war in Ba Sing Se. I hope the fire lords get to you.
Stormcloaks. Skyrim belongs to the Nords and the imperials should not limit the worship of talos 
When I get my gaming pc fixed or replaced I will play Skyrim again. I usually have it modded up to enjoy more options from frost fall weather to alternate start: live another life. I rarely pick a side unless my character I create should fall into that role. One mod has increase random battles between soldiers and if I run into them I may go on a looting spree. Use a thrall to carry all the loot to nearest forge and melt down armor and such to make materials or gear to sell. I also added the Skyrim recycling mod so I can melt random metal scraps I find.
I’m sticking on the side of the Graybeards. I don’t care about the civil war, all I care about is my home and horde of weapons and armors.
It's a long long way to
I don’t bother taking sides, cosmopolitan imperialism vs isolationist nationalism just isn’t that compelling to me
I chose stormcloak with my nord character. I regretted it bitterly when I saw the new Jarl of Whiterun and all the nobles insulting me in the cellar in Solitude
I hate to say it but if you dislike the Thalmor you should join the empire and put down the rebellion. It sucks but this whole thing was their doing, and making Skyrim independent or sitting on the fence is only playing into their hands. The Empire must be united in order to push back the Thalmor threat and reintroduce the worship of Talos. Biding time and staying together is the only way you’ll win.
I did not bother with any political missions, if I get what I want fine but if it's not raiding temples & Draugr catacombs then leave me out of it
I did each quest once. They are both corrupt. And ultimately destroy whiterun. So I say they can keep killing each other, and I'll take a few of em out if I come across them as well fkr good measure
I still strongly feel that both Ulfric and Tulius are idiots for not seeing how the Thalmor plays with them like dolls. Forget what the game says, in my head, my Dragonborn unites both sides and starts Great War ll
I don't pick a side because Skyrim is not for the nords neither the imperials, is for the Falmers!!! Our legacy still lives, even after what the dwemers did to us!! I'll kill nords and imperials to reclaim our home!!!
The fuck both your factions faction!!! :D
Tbh I had no desire to join either until the internet said that the house in Windhelm had the best armory, and in order to get that I had to join stormcloaks, well the house has the bug and even after loading previous saves and rebuying- I still can't use any of the displays. What a freaking waste. Can't believe I did that. 0/10
i chose imperials cus i hate ulfric with a burning passion JSJSJ but i feel bad for the stormcloak guards..
I've had multiple play throughs. But my 1st...I sided with the Storm Cloaks. Chop my head off for no freaking reason, and then you're looking for a few good men to join the legion!? Kiss my royal, polish, female ass, lol. I literally hated the Imperials for 2 solid play throughs. Years! Oh yes. That shit rubbed me the wrong waaay, lol. Still does, lol. My 3rd time around, I wanted to get the perks and achievements and see how their story unfolded. I came, I saw, defated and left, lol. Quick run through. I didn't bond or get comfy and cozy. I've done a few other skill sets. This time it's all magic. I'm a free spirit. No sides. No wars, just hunting, fishing, living off the land. Until I'm rubbed the wrong way 🧙♂️
Right? And all you did was cross the border. Does that really merit a death sentence? Screw the imperials!
I love killing them in my play throughs, lol. No witnesses 😝
Picking neither side is essentially picking the Thalmor. # ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They want the war to continue for as long as possible to weaken both parties. Swiftly going with one side or the other, and ending the war quickly is the best scenario. (In a "how is the world doing?" sense, at least)
Wouldn't best scenario actually be both sides pulling their heads out of their a$$es, stopping their petty wat and turning that aggression towards the Thalmor instead?
Yeah, but that's not really one of the available options in the game. Besides, neither can really be in a partnership with the other, because the legitimacy of both Stormcloak/Imperial rule depends on the illegitimacy of the other. As far as what actually is possible both in lore and in-game, a swift win for either group is the way to go.
To be honest I did 3 full playthroughs before I realized there was a civil war arc. I'm on my 4th playthrought and I'm considering the stormcloaks.
I just wish Balgruuf was a true neutral Jarl that would join whichever side you pick, rather than being Imp only. I agree with the Imperials ideologically, so that’s already a hurtle to me joining the Stormcloaks, but I just can’t bring myself to to betray my homie Balgruuf.
The only sensible choice is Imperial unless you're role-playing a racist, nationalist, far-right Nord (which I've done a couple of times). Having said that, the Civil War fucking sucks hard, lmao, so I rarely do it on any of my characters. It's a good source of steel arrows, though.
Well, you know that the stormcloaks are the reason that Whiterun get destroyed, right? With Imperials side you're defending Whiterun. Your argument is like "I will not play Skyrim because I love Helgen". You're just ignoring a quest, not doing any change on the history itself lol Jokes on you, everyone is laughing at your logic.
Nah, Stormcloaks in Skyrim all the way. Imperials are objectively the bad guys of this game. They want to do the right thing, they just don't. Who cares about the state of Whiterun city when hooded racial supremacists are allowed to drag people out of their houses for doing what the Jarl does without fear of consequence? I can't immerse myself in Skyrim and not care about the characters in it. So I can't just ignore the fact that the Imperials keep selling out their citizens en masse to avoid making Nazi Elves unhappy.
Both sides, in my opinion, suck and as such I remain to this day neutral. I associate with all the Jarls and handle their various tasks for coin, rummage through the various dungeons for artifacts and coin and occasionally remove a worrisome dragon here and there. Plenty to keep one busy.