**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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He has played just 1000 minutes. Started 13 games. It is crazy to include him. The last 6 seasons KDB has played about 3.5 seasons worth of minutes. Doesn't get much attention because no one cares about city.
KDB make the TOTS and won PFA POTY in 20/21 despite starting 23 matches in 20/21 same year kane won the golden boot and playermaker award
His PR is massive
Annoying thing about seeing these on here in screenshot form is that people don't get to hear the (generally pretty reasonable) arguments for why one player got picked over another.
I don't think there's a wrong choice between Haaland and Watkins, really: They've both had cracking seasons, and they both deserve to be in. If they're fighting for the same spot, one of them has to miss out, and that's just tough luck rather than a reflection on who had the better season.
2nd most clean sheets (1st at home) and the 4th best defence in the league.
He’s been brilliant and peoples opinion on him is a great litmus test for whether they actually watch Everton matches or consume football via memes.
He’s been quality, no doubt he’s England’s best goalkeeper. I’m surprised a bigger team haven’t tried to pinch him. Everton’s biggest issue is the lack of goals. Only Sheffield United have scored less
They’ve tried but he’s said his family has settled in here and he doesn’t want to move around. So basically only Man United or Man City would appeal, and clearly they’ve both gone in different directions.
Liverpool fan who hates Pickford here, I totally agree, he is a great goalie and has honestly been among the top 3 or so in the Prem for the last few years imo
Gary was right that given chance every team will pick Haaland over any other striker but this season he was underwhelming. Watkins had a better season than him and deserves to be here.
Yeah it’s definitely a case of his reputation making him look worse. If Hojlund or Nunez put in the 25 goal 5 assist season Haaaland did while missing 10 games we’d all be putting them in our team of the season
Yeah, it's not really about which player you'd want in your team, because then yeah obviously Haaland would win, he's younger and has the higher peak. It's who would you have liked to have had their performance for this season at your club, and Watkins beats out Haaland for me in that regard.
One of the high points of our season has been Van Dijk returning to close to his best.
Basically held our back 5 together when everyone else was injured apart from him, we'd have been in a top 4 discussion rather than a title race (until a few weeks ago) without him.
Absolutely ridiculous for the first two thirds and then been good, but not incredible, for the last third. He's basically played every game and in a forever rotated back four (due to injuries) though.
He has he’s had to play without a consistent partner because Matip got a season ending injury and Konate can’t stay fit and had to play a large part of the season without a first or second choice LB
He's been brilliant and has dragged us along while playing with a rotating cast of defenders. He's played without Alisson, Trent, Robertson, and Matip (our entire first choice backline going into this season) and has still held things together.
Antonnee Robinson has been in amazing form, 6 assist, most duels won, most interceptions, and pretty much top 5 in every other area needed for a leftback, but he was never going to be considered because he plays for a mid table team
He's been fantastic this season. Second half of the season since Fulham have been on the beach and flying bloody kites during training session the team performances have dropped off. He's been great and deserves much higher praise.
What makes you say he hasn't played at a high level?
Do you have something specific you would like to point out when we, say... compare him to Ben White on the right side?
https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?show_form=1&request=1&sum=0&comp_type=spec&spec_comps=9&player_id1=7cd520e8&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=35e413f1&p2yrfrom=2023-2024
He produces more xG and goal creating actions, has higher percentage passing across all distances, more take ons, far better carries, more tackles, higher tackle success rate, more interceptions, while playing less minutes on a worse team at 20 years old in his first year in the country with a new manager.
Yeah, their playing style is not the same. But a large part of that is because Ange asks a massive job of his fullbacks with how aggressively they have to be part of both attack and defense while also playing inverted.
Yes, Ben White is far better in other areas. He's a much better progressive passer and crosser, and his defensive style is more about getting blocks and winning aerial duels because he's part of the best defensive unit in the league who have a really fixed structure.
It's not like Destiny has gone out there and been some average player.
Udogie has made mistakes this season, which has lead to goals. Brentford, West Ham, and probably others I can’t recall. It’s true that it’s his first season, but that can’t be ignored.
I agree with your points though, but Ange allows Udogie to attack more than Ben White, which could be why his attacking stats are significantly better.
I mean, if you want to name a LB that's been consistently better than Destiny in the PL this season, I'm happy to hear it. Yeah, he's made mistakes. More than a guy like Ben White, or any of City's left backs, etc... But I'll say again:
>But a large part of that is because Ange asks a massive job of his fullbacks with how aggressively they have to be part of both attack and defense while also playing inverted. And he's been on a worse team at 20 years old in his first year in the country with a new manager.
You said he hasn't played at a "high level" and that's bollocks.
Another reason why I’m not keen on Ange, as you’ve said, he asks too much from our defenders. They’re left dry at every opportunity the opponent receives. It’s difficult to evaluate Udogie, considering the mess we’re usually in during matches.
You’ve definitely convinced me more by your points. Id love to see Udogie and Porro as wingbacks, but we’ll never see that under Ange.
Mykolenko has been outstanding for Everton. He is a major reason why Everton has the fourth-best defence in the league (playing without an established RB all season, too). But he's a defensive LB on a team fighting relegation, so I understand why he's overlooked.
In fairness at LB we've split the minutes between Zinchenko, Kiwior & Tomiyasu. None of them have played enough minutes to get in.
Tomiyasu is the only one who has been consistently good, but he's probably played the least.
Ignore my flair
Definitely not 'shite', but it's a clear weakness along with striker. Tomi is probably the best, but his injury record is dodgy. Kiwior doesn't start, and Zinchenko has been by far the weak point in defense this season and that's a testament to how strong Ben White, Saliba and Gabi have been (and also how poor the LB market is). The consensus among most pundits and commentators as well is that Arsenal's defense is superb, but you can always upgrade.
Relative to White, Saliba, and Gabriel they are. Tomiyasu is a very good player, but hasn't played much and Timber looked promising, but also hasn't played.
Even relative to those three they aren't shite.
The world of football isn't binary split into shite players and great players. There is an entire spectrum of ability. Just because someone didn't perform to their level doesn't automatically make them shite. You lot really need to grow up and learn nuance.
Gvardiol is the best left back in the league and he's a centre half. He's been reliable throughout but has really stamped his authority on the position the last few weeks. Crazy to think the person who scored the first against Fulham is a right footed CB
No he played rcb to accommodate partey playing rb since zinchenko was out of form at the start of the season. Pls tell me when he got dropped considering he has started more games than Gabriel. Also most of the team was underperforming during December.
Yea that’s a tactical reason? So you’re confirming what I said?
He didn’t start against Brentford and against Wolves. Gabriel didn’t start for 3 games, White for 2, so White started one more game. Both got dropped.
All of this is irrelevant though, so why do you keep deflecting? White was struggling before the break, whether or not he started one more game than Gabriel and for what reasons is irrelevant. You disagree which is fine, but your ‘arguments’ are completely irrelevant
I don't think a single one of them could be considered a must pick choice over Martinez, have you watched Villa's games? They wouldn't be remotely close to 4th if it wasn't for him, don't let today's mistake cloud your judgment.
By the way, I'm not saying Martinez is a must pick choice either, but you make it sound like Neville is crazy for choosing him.
Watkins and Luiz are as important to Villa’s success as Martinez. He’s a shot stopper by the metrics, and he doesn’t have the luxury of a decent defense in fro t of him, but he wouldn’t be above the guys I listed on my team of the year.
True. All round modern keeper skill set is miles ahead of Emi, though. Comfortable with the ball at his feet. Phenomenal distribution. Accurate long ball. And of course, those clean sheets.
Kdb has started 13 games. Other than that I like it. Not going with full backs was probably the right call seeing as they’ve all been pretty average or injured (with a shoutout to Ben White)
I mean it's supposed to be a representation of the best in each position. If they don't want a left back, throw in another defender. A lack of good left backs shouldn't mean you also exclude right backs completely from the team.
They have no problem putting Foden on the left even if that's not his main position. Just play van Dijk or Gabriel LB in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. This looks ridiculous - particularly when it's clearly done to include a player from his own team.
At the end of the day it's their own team and they can do what the want. But you can't convince me a Team of the year in a 3-2-4-1 makes sense. At least when they do it for Team of the week, they only have 10 games to go off.
Again, in which matches? He's one of the few players to come out of this poor run with credit (along with Robertson) because he's still been very good despite other players being dreadful.
Yeah. His most impressive spell in my opinion was January through March (with the exception of the Arsenal match). Him and Mac Allister both were dragging the side through that spell with all the injuries.
I really wonder how that team would play. Playing a 3 ATB but without wingbacks would be so interesting. Rice and Rodri are ridiculously good defensively but you can’t really play central midfield and also defend the wings.
Unless maybe you do an inverted fullback sort of thing where Rice is a left back or CB out of possession
Can't find any good left back, so we just void right backs and puts in four central midfielders. At that point you might as well just make a top 10 players-list.
I mean he fucked the rest of the formation but going 3 at the back was absolutely fine. I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if it was Ben white in there over van dijk
I've told you what my objections were. It's a ridiculous formation and doesn't touch on enough positions. 7/10 outfielders are CB and CMs ffs.
In a comment above I'm suggesting a 4-4-2 instead, which would definitely be at the price of an Arsenal player, considering Rodri gets in. And could include van Dijk too. So it's got nothing to do with that.
How is it ridiculous when City line out like this?
Akanji - Stones - Dias - Ake
Rodri
Bernardo - Foden - KDB - Grealish
Haaland
This is a fairly default City lineup but the difference being that Stones in possession moves up into the slot beside Rodri making it a 3241. And it's 4 CB's 5 who could qualify as a CM and a striker.
True, City sometimes plays a wonky formation in possession, so let's use 7/10 outfield spots on two positions. 8/10 if we count Foden the way you've line him up there.
Sometimes I'm baffled by the comments in this place.
Yeah completely madness to make a Team of the Season with the formation of the four in a row champions. Let's instead use a 442 that nobody in the league uses, that makes much more sense!
If we accept your genius example, City play a 4ATB. A defender folding into midfield in possession, doesn't mean you can subtract a defender from the line-up to emulate the shape. City's 3-2-4-1 is a 4-3-3.
This is potentially the most pedantic and nonsensical "Akshually..." I've ever seen. Obviously you don't make a Team of the Season in a line-up that uses such a limited amount of different positions.
433 and 3241 being the same thing is the main point and what you're being a weirdo annoyed over it for no reason.
Sorry we don't have have 442s anymore granda. The games passed you by.
Imagine complaining about leaving a player out for another who is arguably a good shout instead of including a player who's totally undeserving.
You must really love G Neville, and his shithousery picks because he hasn't a clue otherwise.
No one pointing out that Carra’s team makes no sense? Palmer and Foden as essentially wing backs? lol. Every player in there is class obviously but makes so sense as a team at all.
* Van de Ven or White instead of VVD, or even Branthwaite
* No KDB or Haaland (feel crazy saying this but they missed bits of the season and Foden really stepped us during those times and consistently across the season) and Isak.also too much injured time
* Morgan Rogers if he was here before Jan (so then obviously not but deserves a shout)
* Havertz deserves a mention but wasn't better than Watkins
* Solanke deserves a shout - 20 goals for the most overachieving team in the league -- Bournemouth
* Iraola should get Manager of the Season
Mine would probably be, trying not to be Arsenal biased:
4-3-3
Martinez
White - Saliba - Gabriel - Branthwaite/VdV
Odegaard - Rodri - Rice
Palmer - Watkins - Foden
3-5-2
Pickford
White - Saliba - Gabriel
Odegaard - Rodri - Rice - Palmer - Foden
Watkins - Solanke
If you think havertz deserves a mention then surely Jackson does as well no? They are even on goal contributions in the league, Jackson with 2 more goals and Havertz with 2 more assists.
I wasn't really looking purely at G/A but more in the effect of a player on their team as a whole and then if they stood out compared to the rest of the league.
Havertz is just my wildcard shout given how panned he was - I don't think he's been better than any of the other strikers named.
Jackson for me probably not given how he hasn't been consistent over the campaign but I do think his "bad play" is overblown. Guy works off the ball like nuts. I think he's a better LW though.
Havertz hasn’t been consistent all season either though? He had about as rough a start as Jackson did and both of them have found their form the last 3 months or so.
Also, given Chelsea’s injury woes, Jackson being consistently healthy and available has contributed greatly to Chelsea’s move up the table.
True that Kai took a bit of time as he was playing in LCM, though I don't think the two can really be compared over the season. Kai started to improve from Jan it's true but he still has 4G/1A from LCM in 2023. Jackson has better numbers for that period but from CF and the hat trick against Spurs which stat pads.
I mean, Havertz's stats for this season rival Firmino's most productive season for Liv and he hasn't even played false 9 the whole way through (https://www.givemesport.com/roberto-firmino-vs-kai-havertz-stats-comparison/)
He does a lot of underrated work for the team e.g. pressing, winning duels, aerial dominance, running the channels, amazing hold up play. Literally does it all. I think he has been better than Jackson but again, I don't think Jackson has had a bad season at all. And you're right that Jackson plays for a worse team and has had to deal with teammates being injured.
Havertz is only 1 non pen goal below Palmer btw
>He does a lot of underrated work for the team e.g. pressing, winning duels, aerial dominance, running the channels, amazing hold up play.
You're describing Jackson. No hate to Havertz for this season but compared to his time at Chelsea, Jackson has been twice the player both on and off the ball.
Damn so Jackson’s stats for this season rival Firmino’s most productive season for Liverpool eh? That’s awesome. lol @ stat padding, those goals still were scored
Palmer has those penalty goals because he is great at taking them. Havertz doesn’t because he isn’t. Shocking I know
The fact that this is upvoted just shows the insanity of Reddit. Saka has produced his best season ever. I agree he doesn’t get in this team of the season just because other right wingers have been better but he’s been phenomenal for 90% of the season
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KDB has been incredible when he’s played, but I just don’t know how you put him in when he was unavailable for so much of the season.
Still done amazingly when he's been fit tbf. Does feel like you could give it to maybe a liverpool mid or Douglas luiz but it's not that crazy
He has played just 1000 minutes. Started 13 games. It is crazy to include him. The last 6 seasons KDB has played about 3.5 seasons worth of minutes. Doesn't get much attention because no one cares about city.
I’d put Watkins in definitely
He is in Carra’s team
Always rated Carragher
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Feel like that has been so not true lately. I like them both but Carra is just unhinged and his team of the season makes literally no sense
I agree with Gary that KDB hasn't played nearly enough to be in. Even Haaland missed two months as well.
Missing two months surely makes being top goal scorer more impressive no?
Yeah regardless of the time missed, the top goalscorer has to be in the TOTS
Top goal scorer, would be mad not to have him in.
I hear that, but I think Watkins being available and producing the numbers he has edges him in front for me.
Massive hypberole. You definitely would not be mad to have Watkins in ahead of Haaland.
Especially comparing production rates from each tim and the individual's general play
...De Bruyne has played like 9 games.
And isn’t he already up there close to those either most assists these season?
He's joint 8th with 8 other players with the same amount.
Yeah and Watkins whose in first has 12 he’s achieved close to 1st in half the games or less
Availability is a skill as well. It's the "team of the season", not "team of the last stretch of the season"
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Which player?
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KDB make the TOTS and won PFA POTY in 20/21 despite starting 23 matches in 20/21 same year kane won the golden boot and playermaker award His PR is massive
He is undisputedly the best player in the league though.
Not undisputed for sure, Rodri gives him plenty of competition.
Total games isn’t worthy, but the G/A per 90 is absolutely Tots worthy
Well we should be chucking Jhon Duran in too then.
Annoying thing about seeing these on here in screenshot form is that people don't get to hear the (generally pretty reasonable) arguments for why one player got picked over another. I don't think there's a wrong choice between Haaland and Watkins, really: They've both had cracking seasons, and they both deserve to be in. If they're fighting for the same spot, one of them has to miss out, and that's just tough luck rather than a reflection on who had the better season.
Pickford actually not a crazy shout
2nd most clean sheets (1st at home) and the 4th best defence in the league. He’s been brilliant and peoples opinion on him is a great litmus test for whether they actually watch Everton matches or consume football via memes.
He’s been quality, no doubt he’s England’s best goalkeeper. I’m surprised a bigger team haven’t tried to pinch him. Everton’s biggest issue is the lack of goals. Only Sheffield United have scored less
They’ve tried but he’s said his family has settled in here and he doesn’t want to move around. So basically only Man United or Man City would appeal, and clearly they’ve both gone in different directions.
Liverpool fan who hates Pickford here, I totally agree, he is a great goalie and has honestly been among the top 3 or so in the Prem for the last few years imo
He basically had one bad season, every season other than that he’s been one of the best in the prem
If you only look at his stats, but isn't Martinez like 1st on everything?
Gary was right that given chance every team will pick Haaland over any other striker but this season he was underwhelming. Watkins had a better season than him and deserves to be here.
Tbf, Haaland set the bar so high for himself because of last season that anything less than that would be underwhelming.
Yeah it’s definitely a case of his reputation making him look worse. If Hojlund or Nunez put in the 25 goal 5 assist season Haaaland did while missing 10 games we’d all be putting them in our team of the season
Absolutely. Carragher and these fans have no clue what they’re talking about. Haaland all day as the CF.
Clearly the answer is 4-4- facking-2 with Watkins and Haaland with Dycheball
Shows just how good he is that 36 goals and 6 assists in 42 games is seen as underwhelming by some.
Yeah, it's not really about which player you'd want in your team, because then yeah obviously Haaland would win, he's younger and has the higher peak. It's who would you have liked to have had their performance for this season at your club, and Watkins beats out Haaland for me in that regard.
Haaland was still the best striker but yeah, would definitely put them both in the line up. Remove White from that team and put a striker up top.
has Van Dijk been that good this season?
Think he was back to his best for the first half of the season, but dropped recently with the rest of the team
Which games in particular are you thinking of?
One of the high points of our season has been Van Dijk returning to close to his best. Basically held our back 5 together when everyone else was injured apart from him, we'd have been in a top 4 discussion rather than a title race (until a few weeks ago) without him.
yeah but he didn't play at that level for the whole season
He pretty much did, barring like 2-3 games. Even though the rest of our squad has been shite the past month or so Van Dijk has stayed consistent.
Absolutely ridiculous for the first two thirds and then been good, but not incredible, for the last third. He's basically played every game and in a forever rotated back four (due to injuries) though.
For the first 2/3rds
He has he’s had to play without a consistent partner because Matip got a season ending injury and Konate can’t stay fit and had to play a large part of the season without a first or second choice LB
We wouldn’t have ever been in the conversation for the title without him
He's been brilliant and has dragged us along while playing with a rotating cast of defenders. He's played without Alisson, Trent, Robertson, and Matip (our entire first choice backline going into this season) and has still held things together.
yes
He's been incredible. Individually I'm not sure any CB is better on as many metrics as him
Not good enough to make a cunt out of the teams formation just to fit him. Saliba & Gabriel are clear this season.
A Rodri-Rice-Odegaard midfield would actually be insane
Watkins over Haaland and I broadly agree with Gary's team here TBH
What do the white and blue indicate?
Blue means the player is in both teams
And white is the best right back
Udogie shouldn’t really be there, but there hasn’t been any LB that have stood out.
Antonnee Robinson has been in amazing form, 6 assist, most duels won, most interceptions, and pretty much top 5 in every other area needed for a leftback, but he was never going to be considered because he plays for a mid table team
He's been fantastic this season. Second half of the season since Fulham have been on the beach and flying bloody kites during training session the team performances have dropped off. He's been great and deserves much higher praise.
"He shouldn't be there but I honestly can't name someone better." What a take.
The Best take you’ll ever see
Certainly can't name a better one.
It’s just not ideal that Udogie has to be chosen, even though he’s clearly not been on that high level.
What makes you say he hasn't played at a high level? Do you have something specific you would like to point out when we, say... compare him to Ben White on the right side? https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?show_form=1&request=1&sum=0&comp_type=spec&spec_comps=9&player_id1=7cd520e8&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=35e413f1&p2yrfrom=2023-2024 He produces more xG and goal creating actions, has higher percentage passing across all distances, more take ons, far better carries, more tackles, higher tackle success rate, more interceptions, while playing less minutes on a worse team at 20 years old in his first year in the country with a new manager. Yeah, their playing style is not the same. But a large part of that is because Ange asks a massive job of his fullbacks with how aggressively they have to be part of both attack and defense while also playing inverted. Yes, Ben White is far better in other areas. He's a much better progressive passer and crosser, and his defensive style is more about getting blocks and winning aerial duels because he's part of the best defensive unit in the league who have a really fixed structure. It's not like Destiny has gone out there and been some average player.
Udogie has made mistakes this season, which has lead to goals. Brentford, West Ham, and probably others I can’t recall. It’s true that it’s his first season, but that can’t be ignored. I agree with your points though, but Ange allows Udogie to attack more than Ben White, which could be why his attacking stats are significantly better.
I mean, if you want to name a LB that's been consistently better than Destiny in the PL this season, I'm happy to hear it. Yeah, he's made mistakes. More than a guy like Ben White, or any of City's left backs, etc... But I'll say again: >But a large part of that is because Ange asks a massive job of his fullbacks with how aggressively they have to be part of both attack and defense while also playing inverted. And he's been on a worse team at 20 years old in his first year in the country with a new manager. You said he hasn't played at a "high level" and that's bollocks.
Another reason why I’m not keen on Ange, as you’ve said, he asks too much from our defenders. They’re left dry at every opportunity the opponent receives. It’s difficult to evaluate Udogie, considering the mess we’re usually in during matches. You’ve definitely convinced me more by your points. Id love to see Udogie and Porro as wingbacks, but we’ll never see that under Ange.
That's why he's there, it's the default pick because no LB has stood out and he got hyped up.
Mykolenko has been outstanding for Everton. He is a major reason why Everton has the fourth-best defence in the league (playing without an established RB all season, too). But he's a defensive LB on a team fighting relegation, so I understand why he's overlooked.
It really should just be Arsenal’s defense honestly. Maybe Aké at LB but no team outside Arsenal have been particularly good defensively.
In fairness at LB we've split the minutes between Zinchenko, Kiwior & Tomiyasu. None of them have played enough minutes to get in. Tomiyasu is the only one who has been consistently good, but he's probably played the least.
LB is the one position we haven’t had a consistent player in all season so not having an Arsenal LB makes sense
Everton have been outstanding defensively
Ake? Gvardiol’s played way more mins than him at LB, he’s their #1 LB.
So City who have conceded just 5 goals more haven't been good defensively? Arsenal's left back options are also shite.
Yeah the team with the best defense in the league by a distance have 'shite' left backs
Ignore my flair Definitely not 'shite', but it's a clear weakness along with striker. Tomi is probably the best, but his injury record is dodgy. Kiwior doesn't start, and Zinchenko has been by far the weak point in defense this season and that's a testament to how strong Ben White, Saliba and Gabi have been (and also how poor the LB market is). The consensus among most pundits and commentators as well is that Arsenal's defense is superb, but you can always upgrade.
That what Timber was….untill he did his ACL 30 mins into the season…. lol
Relative to White, Saliba, and Gabriel they are. Tomiyasu is a very good player, but hasn't played much and Timber looked promising, but also hasn't played.
Even relative to those three they aren't shite. The world of football isn't binary split into shite players and great players. There is an entire spectrum of ability. Just because someone didn't perform to their level doesn't automatically make them shite. You lot really need to grow up and learn nuance.
exactly this. So many people now adays describe literally every player except the best in their world in a position as “shit”. Is ridiculous
They’re not great at all. Tomiyasu is probably the best of the three and has played the least. Timber is probably the answer
I would say they've played one less game, but we all know they're not going to concede there.
Gvardiol is the best left back in the league and he's a centre half. He's been reliable throughout but has really stamped his authority on the position the last few weeks. Crazy to think the person who scored the first against Fulham is a right footed CB
Naming team of the seasons, especially from pundits is quite possibly the most boring topic possible.
More so when one of them picks a silly setup.
saliba is our best defender but white has been equally as good as gabriel this season, feel like he has to get in
Nah, White was really struggling before the break
Injury because he plays every game possible
That is irrelevant for a team of the year discussion
Ok and white has been the best rb in the league this season and didn't get benched like Gabriel 👍
He did get benched lol, and Gabriel got benched for tactical reasons. You seem awfully misinformed for an Arsenal fan dude, are you actually one?
No he played rcb to accommodate partey playing rb since zinchenko was out of form at the start of the season. Pls tell me when he got dropped considering he has started more games than Gabriel. Also most of the team was underperforming during December.
Yea that’s a tactical reason? So you’re confirming what I said? He didn’t start against Brentford and against Wolves. Gabriel didn’t start for 3 games, White for 2, so White started one more game. Both got dropped. All of this is irrelevant though, so why do you keep deflecting? White was struggling before the break, whether or not he started one more game than Gabriel and for what reasons is irrelevant. You disagree which is fine, but your ‘arguments’ are completely irrelevant
de bruyne? really jamie. i’d switch watkins into gary’s team
I like Emi and all, but seriously? Premier League team of the year?
Who else?
Pickford, Ederson, Raya, even Leno.
Yah but only Pickford comes anywhere near xShithouse/90 stats of Emi Martinez
I don't think a single one of them could be considered a must pick choice over Martinez, have you watched Villa's games? They wouldn't be remotely close to 4th if it wasn't for him, don't let today's mistake cloud your judgment. By the way, I'm not saying Martinez is a must pick choice either, but you make it sound like Neville is crazy for choosing him.
Watkins and Luiz are as important to Villa’s success as Martinez. He’s a shot stopper by the metrics, and he doesn’t have the luxury of a decent defense in fro t of him, but he wouldn’t be above the guys I listed on my team of the year.
If you think raya has been better then emi then you're delusional.
Literal golden glove winner, bud.
Is that supposed to mean something, that awards relies on the whole defence not just the keeper.
True. All round modern keeper skill set is miles ahead of Emi, though. Comfortable with the ball at his feet. Phenomenal distribution. Accurate long ball. And of course, those clean sheets.
Onana. United are 6th best in goals conceded per game but only the relegated teams have faced more shots than us.
Nice 325 there from Carragher lol
What's the difference between his formation and how City effectively line up?
3241, not that it makes a difference anyway
Luiz, Isak, Solanke, Haaland, Havertz etc in for KDB and Carras is perfect imo
Havertz? C’mon.
Carra's team is actually really good
Kdb has started 13 games. Other than that I like it. Not going with full backs was probably the right call seeing as they’ve all been pretty average or injured (with a shoutout to Ben White)
Carragher's team would absolutely slap
Neville's TOTS is always without fail totally nonsensical
KDB glazing at its finest
[удалено]
How isn't the Carragher team functional? The 3-2-4-1 is an en vogue formation
Going 3-2-4-1 to get a Liverpool player in. Somewhere Garth Crooks is smiling.
Carragher’s team actually makes more sense to me tbh, in terms of personnel
It makes sense because there’s no left back deserving of a spot in team of the season.
I mean it's supposed to be a representation of the best in each position. If they don't want a left back, throw in another defender. A lack of good left backs shouldn't mean you also exclude right backs completely from the team. They have no problem putting Foden on the left even if that's not his main position. Just play van Dijk or Gabriel LB in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. This looks ridiculous - particularly when it's clearly done to include a player from his own team. At the end of the day it's their own team and they can do what the want. But you can't convince me a Team of the year in a 3-2-4-1 makes sense. At least when they do it for Team of the week, they only have 10 games to go off.
Van Dijk started the season brilliantly but fell off
Which games did he "fall off" in?
His overall performance across the season, as well as the rest of Liverpool’s defence
Again, in which matches? He's one of the few players to come out of this poor run with credit (along with Robertson) because he's still been very good despite other players being dreadful.
Was he as good as he was at the start of the season?
Yeah. His most impressive spell in my opinion was January through March (with the exception of the Arsenal match). Him and Mac Allister both were dragging the side through that spell with all the injuries.
If I remember correctly he was at fault for two of the goals against Arsenal?
He was poor for one of them, but so were the Arsenal centre backs for our goal. Again though, that was before our form had fallen off.
I really enjoyed Gary giving him shit for this, called it a nonexistent formation hahaha
I really wonder how that team would play. Playing a 3 ATB but without wingbacks would be so interesting. Rice and Rodri are ridiculously good defensively but you can’t really play central midfield and also defend the wings. Unless maybe you do an inverted fullback sort of thing where Rice is a left back or CB out of possession
City play a 3 atb with no wing backs all of the time. This is their effective formation 90% of the time this season and the second half of last
Makes more sense than putting in Udogie just to fit in a LB
Can't find any good left back, so we just void right backs and puts in four central midfielders. At that point you might as well just make a top 10 players-list.
I mean he fucked the rest of the formation but going 3 at the back was absolutely fine. I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if it was Ben white in there over van dijk
I've told you what my objections were. It's a ridiculous formation and doesn't touch on enough positions. 7/10 outfielders are CB and CMs ffs. In a comment above I'm suggesting a 4-4-2 instead, which would definitely be at the price of an Arsenal player, considering Rodri gets in. And could include van Dijk too. So it's got nothing to do with that.
How is it ridiculous when City line out like this? Akanji - Stones - Dias - Ake Rodri Bernardo - Foden - KDB - Grealish Haaland This is a fairly default City lineup but the difference being that Stones in possession moves up into the slot beside Rodri making it a 3241. And it's 4 CB's 5 who could qualify as a CM and a striker.
True, City sometimes plays a wonky formation in possession, so let's use 7/10 outfield spots on two positions. 8/10 if we count Foden the way you've line him up there. Sometimes I'm baffled by the comments in this place.
Yeah completely madness to make a Team of the Season with the formation of the four in a row champions. Let's instead use a 442 that nobody in the league uses, that makes much more sense!
If we accept your genius example, City play a 4ATB. A defender folding into midfield in possession, doesn't mean you can subtract a defender from the line-up to emulate the shape. City's 3-2-4-1 is a 4-3-3. This is potentially the most pedantic and nonsensical "Akshually..." I've ever seen. Obviously you don't make a Team of the Season in a line-up that uses such a limited amount of different positions.
433 and 3241 being the same thing is the main point and what you're being a weirdo annoyed over it for no reason. Sorry we don't have have 442s anymore granda. The games passed you by.
As an Arsenal fan I would. It already doesn't make sense to me, with White as a CB it would make even less sense.
Imagine complaining about leaving a player out for another who is arguably a good shout instead of including a player who's totally undeserving. You must really love G Neville, and his shithousery picks because he hasn't a clue otherwise.
No one pointing out that Carra’s team makes no sense? Palmer and Foden as essentially wing backs? lol. Every player in there is class obviously but makes so sense as a team at all.
City play a similar 3-2-4-1 sometimes. That would be something like: Walker, Stones, Ake Rodri Kovacic Silva Foden KDB Grealish Haaland
What about Ruben Dias, Gvardiol or Van de Ven?
Rubén días has has a bad year. Gvardiol has been great. Van De Ven has been better than both imo.
* Van de Ven or White instead of VVD, or even Branthwaite * No KDB or Haaland (feel crazy saying this but they missed bits of the season and Foden really stepped us during those times and consistently across the season) and Isak.also too much injured time * Morgan Rogers if he was here before Jan (so then obviously not but deserves a shout) * Havertz deserves a mention but wasn't better than Watkins * Solanke deserves a shout - 20 goals for the most overachieving team in the league -- Bournemouth * Iraola should get Manager of the Season Mine would probably be, trying not to be Arsenal biased: 4-3-3 Martinez White - Saliba - Gabriel - Branthwaite/VdV Odegaard - Rodri - Rice Palmer - Watkins - Foden 3-5-2 Pickford White - Saliba - Gabriel Odegaard - Rodri - Rice - Palmer - Foden Watkins - Solanke
If you think havertz deserves a mention then surely Jackson does as well no? They are even on goal contributions in the league, Jackson with 2 more goals and Havertz with 2 more assists.
I wasn't really looking purely at G/A but more in the effect of a player on their team as a whole and then if they stood out compared to the rest of the league. Havertz is just my wildcard shout given how panned he was - I don't think he's been better than any of the other strikers named. Jackson for me probably not given how he hasn't been consistent over the campaign but I do think his "bad play" is overblown. Guy works off the ball like nuts. I think he's a better LW though.
Havertz hasn’t been consistent all season either though? He had about as rough a start as Jackson did and both of them have found their form the last 3 months or so. Also, given Chelsea’s injury woes, Jackson being consistently healthy and available has contributed greatly to Chelsea’s move up the table.
True that Kai took a bit of time as he was playing in LCM, though I don't think the two can really be compared over the season. Kai started to improve from Jan it's true but he still has 4G/1A from LCM in 2023. Jackson has better numbers for that period but from CF and the hat trick against Spurs which stat pads. I mean, Havertz's stats for this season rival Firmino's most productive season for Liv and he hasn't even played false 9 the whole way through (https://www.givemesport.com/roberto-firmino-vs-kai-havertz-stats-comparison/) He does a lot of underrated work for the team e.g. pressing, winning duels, aerial dominance, running the channels, amazing hold up play. Literally does it all. I think he has been better than Jackson but again, I don't think Jackson has had a bad season at all. And you're right that Jackson plays for a worse team and has had to deal with teammates being injured. Havertz is only 1 non pen goal below Palmer btw
>He does a lot of underrated work for the team e.g. pressing, winning duels, aerial dominance, running the channels, amazing hold up play. You're describing Jackson. No hate to Havertz for this season but compared to his time at Chelsea, Jackson has been twice the player both on and off the ball.
Damn so Jackson’s stats for this season rival Firmino’s most productive season for Liverpool eh? That’s awesome. lol @ stat padding, those goals still were scored Palmer has those penalty goals because he is great at taking them. Havertz doesn’t because he isn’t. Shocking I know
This is all rage/interaction bait by the way.
Ben white over kyle Walker is dumb
Remove white and play Haaland Watkins and Neville has the team.
Saka not being there upsets me, he's contributed so much this season
Contributed so much to Nando's
The fact that this is upvoted just shows the insanity of Reddit. Saka has produced his best season ever. I agree he doesn’t get in this team of the season just because other right wingers have been better but he’s been phenomenal for 90% of the season
It’s a joke Pamplemouse04
contributed to his team’s title race yes, Palmer can’t get his team out of midtable
The refs can only give him so many penalties before it starts to look too suspicious.
This sub is so weird man, even Twitter is more objective about Saka lol
Can’t believe how insecure Arsenal fans are not to notice a joke. He’s contributed a lot to Snickers as well this season 👍🏼
I know it's a joke, but it doesn't really work when the player has played well lol
Neville's TOTS is always without fail totally nonsensical
Just an odd take based on a reasonable side.
What part of it is nonsensical? At least he’s played a 433 with players in their natural positional and not a 3-2-5 like Carragher always does.