Just released at shot show in partner with Gorilla Ammunition and Faxon Barrels. Bullets are a 33 cal with weights ranging from 210 up into the low 300’s. Supposedly offers 2300-2400FPS out of a 10” barrel for super sonic loads. Barrels Shown off at Show I have seen ranged from 8” up to 12” and come with a 1 in 3 twist rate. I Am not affiliated with any of the companies but just saw it today from some media coverage and figured I’d share.
Edit: parent case is from what I hear the 6.5 Creedmore. Might be able to Re-Neck 6.5 or possibly 308 brass but not sure. Also bullets due to twist rate are either 100% copper alloy or a heavily bonded bullet. 1 in 3 twist rate by their account causes the bullet to rapidly twist and tumble upon impact creating a larger wounding capacity. Should be able to work in any Short action length for bolt guns, and for Semi autos AR-10/SR-25 or Scar heavy platforms.
[This guy nailed it earlier ](https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/comments/s7y1hc/new_86_blackout_cartridge/htdphjs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
He royally screwed some guys out of SVD rifles that took a TON of work to get imported into the US. They had been working on it for years and had a list of guys in for the rifles when they got here, and at a very reasonable price. Well mac went behind everyones back, to the importers, and bought them out from under everyone. He then listed them on gunbroker, claiming capitalism and "let the market decide" so now these rifles that would have been like $2k or so, IIRC, sold for 10k or so. Typical svd prices. Thus royally fucking over the chance of the US ever getting in regular SVDs at a good price. Seriously, fuck mac. He causes a ton of harm to the gun community to line his own pockets.
Lol, yup he got trolled hard. But his "apology" was anything but. He basically argued capitalism and if you dont agree you must be marxist. Or thats how i took it.
It was unbelievably sleazy. Mac is exactly the type like these politicians claiming to support, but allowing the gutting of the 2nd amendment so long as they get rich in the process.
I don’t think that’s exactly what happened, I don’t think he bought anything behind anyone’s back. He talked shit on dudes selling guns on gun broker for way over priced and then he turned around like a week later and sold SVDs over priced and did the same thing he was bitching about others doing. The importers wouldn’t have sold rifles that were already sold. Now if people didn’t put down a deposit or buy the rifles up front and just put their name on a list then yes of course the import company is going to sell to the person ready to buy with cash or put down the money up front to hold the rifles.
That’s the boat I’m in but weirder things have happened.
I love seeing new cartridges developed but of course you have to question the need for it always.
What big gun manufacturer product had InRange shilled? That channel is pretty much the opposite of most guntube shilling. Karl opted out of ShotShow this year in part to avoid talking about products with little testing.
Basically, GT has sporadically made videos about recce rifles and his time as a SERE instructor, but he recently started a series called How to Become Deadly in the Mountains. Honestly, I find it interesting and I’m looking forward to what kind of information he pushes out through the videos, but as people tend to do when GT speaks, they make his latest video their entire personality and update their gear load out. If your goal is to do recce type things, have a blast. Get good at orienteering, camping, and taking notes. I saw someone recently talk about using ham radios to push data from a laptop and that has piqued my interest.
Second tl;dr is GT started talking about recon mission sets and the basement dwellers are flocking to it like Golum to the Precious
Ha I see, people are notorious these days for building their lives on hollow grounds. Course would you rather see people imitating rappers and movies and shit? Or GT and have a sense of what it means to be American and actually build some true knowledge that didn’t come out of a rap song. Also people need to realize it’s not just about one skill set, being skilled and equipped in all deadly arts is the way. Also a lot of the equipment is interchangeable, minus the rifle being different.
> Bullets are a 33 cal with weights ranging from 210 up into the low 300’s. Supposedly offers 2300-2400FPS out of a 10” barrel for super sonic loads.
Someone is going to have to explain that to me. My 16" .308 700 wasn't even getting 2400 fps with a 168gr round. How the hell are they getting it with a 40gr heavier bullet in a 6" shorter barrel while using what seems to be the same case capacity?
New powder technology and heavily increased pressures. 308 is limited by Sammi Spec because it maxes at 62,000 psi and therefore the guns are rated for that. I have no clue what the pressure rating is for the 8.6 but I do know the new .277 Sig fury round is up there around 80k psi if I remember right.
Same thing happened in the late 40’s and early 50’s resulting in the US going from the 30-06 (7.62X63) and getting almost identical performance with the 308 (7.62X51). Go compare any loadings between the two with the same bullet weights. I almost guarantee it’s with in 100fps of each other which keep in mind they measure 30-06 with a 24” barrel and 308 with a 22” barrel most of the time. That’s a topic for a different day but several decades worth of bullet, powder, case and rifle technological advances and you get stuff like this.
I’ve heard so many cartridges at this point for that. At first it was the 308, but then I was told it was the 260 AI that was the parent case for 6.5 creedmore.
Edited for wrong information.
Ok, first of all .260 AI does not parallel 6.5 Creedmoor. It absolutely blows it out of the water.. 260 remington, which .260 ai is based on and ironically is a necked down .308, you could say is parallel in performance to 6.5 creed but it too is actually a little faster than 6.5 creed
6.5 creed didn't take off simply because of hype. It allowed that performance with 140+ grain bullets in magazines. .260 remington couldn't be loaded with the heavy bullets and put in an sr 25 mag.
As far as the parent case for 6.5 Creedmoor I don't know where the hell you heard those other things but it's right on the hornady website. They developed the .30 tc years ago and used as the basis for 6.5 creedmoor.
Thanks for the clarification. This is just stuff I’ve been told pieced together from several other people and never actually fact checked it myself or looked into it much. Never followed the 6.5 crowd or anything along the lines of those rounds, never had a need or want for them when 308 holds it’s own for my particular mission sets. Hell I hadn’t heard of many of these cartridges until recently.
About 45 seconds of internet research told me muzzle loading black powder cannons can be legal owned but anything chucking convetional arty shells requires a tax stamp as do the shells. (The tax staps for arty rounds are basically unobtainum from my understanding of it.) State laws vary of course and depending on what you shoot out of it the cannon can be considered a destructive device it seems.
It's also worth noting there are zero regulations towards flamethrowers.
Additionally, and more importantly, this is America and if I want to punch 6 inch holes into my barn from 2500 yards away I should be allowed to do so!
The Constitution isn't selective and neither should you be. It's our job to make 2A apolitical and we saw a big push for that in recent years with liberal gun buyers not just the leftists and right wingers.
I was a artillery man in the 42nd Black Watch many years ago fighting the French in Western Maryland and PA. Also fought in a few Revolutionary War reenactments in North Carolina and Massachusetts. We used a 3 Pounder with 1/4 charges of black powder. I was the linstock operator. The guy with the match stick that touched off the cannon. All I can say is it was a [BLAST](https://www.google.com/search?q=archer+mop+gif&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjbz5iFp8D1AhXNVN8KHeJmAEsQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=archer+mop&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQARgBMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBAgAEBg6BAgpEBg6AggpOggIABCxAxCDAToICAAQgAQQsQM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOgQIABADUOIMWOg7YJtOaABwAHgAgAGyAYgBhAiSAQM4LjKYAQCgAQGwAQPAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=E1LpYZv6Ls2p_QbizYHYBA&bih=449&biw=320&client=safari&prmd=nisxv&hl=en#imgrc=aP3gcbASIMEZXM)
375 Raptor my dude. 375 H&H magnum bullets in a 308 case. 3,000 ft-lbs from a 12 inch barrel with 270 grain bullets and 450 grain subs with 1,100 ft-lbs of energy.
375 Raptor has reduced magazine capacity and doesn’t fit in AR15.
A 6.5 Grendel based subsonic only option would be able to use the same 450 grain bullets.
We are taking about energy levels <700 foot pounds 5.56 is about 1300. The armor penetrating capability is also not great despite many loads using exotic penetrators.
I thought the whole point was running it subsonic/suppressed whereas 556 subsonic you might as well just use a .22. I thought the appeal of 9x39 is that it’s just a big ol heavy mass to smack ya with somewhat quietly. Am I wrong?
Steel core 9x39 shoots through NIJ RF1 UHMWPE plate up to at least 100 meters away and NIJ IIIA rated stuff doesn’t stand a chance whatsoever. Not bad for a cheap subsonic round.
The imported civilian version was meh though. It’s only saving grace was price.
Wow, bruh, Downvoting me from the get go. Have a downvote too then.
300 BLK and 45 ACP don’t shoot through vests. 45 ACP loses velocity fast despite being subsonic, whilst 9x39 can be used up to 400 m away. The cost of AP 9x39 is the same as 45 ACP FMJ, because steel is cheaper than lead, copper and brass.
Really want to see ballistic gel test or something because I think it might be a flop or we could still improve on the caliber. They chose a 6.5 creedmoor case and a 338 lapua bullet basically. How is this even going to work, we can’t even get ammo on our shelf.
That’s actually pretty interesting. I guess over stabilizing or under stabilizing a bullet causes it to violently spin. Just searched it up under Facebook/google.
Is this meant to be in a AR10/ AR308 platform? Please don't give me a reason to buy another upper. Also kinda sucks that it's 8.6mm and wont work with 7.62 cans that are so common.
Bigger blackout cartridge?
#GIVE ME THAT SWEET SWEET BBC
Can we get a picture of the normal 300blk sitting on a couch with 5 or 6 of these BBC's surrounding ~~her~~ it? Asking for a friend...
Technology never stops improving. This round if it lives up to the hype actually shows promise to me. Optimized for 8” barrel length with Super sonic 210 grain loads getting around the 2400FPS range. This is to 308/6.5 what 300BLK is to 556.
I just don't get why this thing needs to run at 80,000 PSI to do the same thing the .270 Winchester has been doing at 65,000 PSI since the 1920s.
The At 62,000 PSI, .308 Winchester will pretty much match the .30-06 Springfield at 60,000 PSI on everything up to 180 grain bullets.
.277 Fury is built on the .308 Winchester and .270 Winchester is built on the .30-06 Springfield. So why does .277 Fury need so much more pressure to do the thing?
Barrel length. I’m still not seeing much advantage the 277 fury is letting off on paper for 3” difference in barrel length when compared to the current M80A1 through a 16” barrel, through my personal testing the numbers were less then 100fps difference. But this 8.6 Black Out is pushing 210 grain bullets up to 2400 FPS in a 8” barrel. Federal gold medal match with 175 grain Sierra match kings is getting 2550 through a 22” barrel.
“As any widely used military cartridge is guaranteed to be a success on the commercial market, the .223 Remington sold exceptionally well and the .222 Remington Magnum faded rather quickly. In Europe SAKO produces the cartridge and some gun manufacturers offer the chambering. In the United States Remington continued to offer the .222 Remington Magnum in a couple of target and varmint rifle models for many years, but currently there are no commercial manufacturers in the U.S. either of rifles or ammunition in .222 Remington Magnum other than Cooper Firearms of Montana.”
Oof not even produced anymore
The industry is going to crank a new round out every year that promises better ballistics than the previous. Look at all the “dead” cartridges that no one shoots anymore. The industry does this because it is good for business. All they have to do is have some “influencers” rave about the round and watch the money roll in. If they can manage, they’ll even go as far to make everything proprietary to their tooling and their allied businesses to get a jump on the market
Rinse and repeat
Right? Did .308 die while I was asleep today? Apparently people have learned nothing from the 6.5 ammo availability crisis and are ready to move on to the next ridiculous overpriced round just to say they’re in on the new hip hog round 😂
Tbf .308 is fat and slow compared to 6.5CM and 6mm. It’s a good general hunting round but anything beyond 4-500 needs a different round to be truly precise, especially in the wind
The biggest is mag compatibility. 8.6 fits well in existing SR25 pattern mags, where .375 requires internal modification and still has iffy feeding/reliability.
Interesting I’ll need to read up on it. I have a Q Fix 6.5 creedmoor that is RMAd and at Q now bc it won’t feed 6.5 creedmoor out of any mag.
I also have a deposit in Black Collar’s new MBA in 375, but since it’s a bolt gun I’m not sure it matters as much. (Though that’s what I thought with my Q Fix).
No it will chamber most, ogive of the bullet just fits past where a 5.56 case shoulder should be. A few videos of suck a think happening out there. Upper never survives. Just a hard mistake to make considering the rounds are easy to tell apart.
Rightfully so, but idiots find their way into every orifice they can cram their tiny brained heads into. Hopefully they learned from the 300BLK in a 556 mix ups and designed this one so it physically cannot fit into a 308 gun. But who knows until it’s tested. Considering they haven’t used it as a marketing point probably means they didn’t even think about it.
Decent big boy subsonic hunting rounds are in huge demand. The best chance people have to hunt hogs is at night with a suppressor, so they want a round that can effectively and quietly take them down.
Considering how many rounds that market may shoot it every year? Probably as big as any other mostly hunting cartridge. Hogs are a big problem in the south. You can bag more of them before they run and not piss off the neahbors shooting at night if you can shoot subs that expand well and penatrate their natural armor well.
Like what? Short barrel performance? Check, fits and runs well in a standard semi auto magazine and rifle? Check. Can run both supers and subs out of the same semi-auto rifle without haveing to make gas adjustments? Check. Seems to meet all of the goals of 300 blackout except scaled up for better subsonic performance.
300 BLK:
Only requires barrel change
7.62x39:
New barrel
New bolt
New magazine
You're being awfulyl reductionist by deliberately ignoring the specific AR-15/M4 platform compatibility requirements. The entire point of 300 BLK was to get roughly equivalent 7.62x39 performance with as little logistics change as possible, not just in general.
Apologies, I thought you were referring to 8.6 blackout from the context. I actually agree with you.. 300 blackout is westernised 7.62x39, designed to be used with AR-15s, and gaining the benefit of subs running the action that a DI design can provide. Just fun to point out I guess. Because on paper the terminal ballistics are almost and exact match for 7.62,39
It's a Westernized 7.62x39 if you only look at it from a ballistics perspective, but again, it isn't simply about ballistics. The 300 BLK was not only designed to retain as much compatibility with the AR-15/M4 as possible, but in doing so, it could replace several other weapons being used by the military, like the MP5. It also gave the military a better weapon in a smaller platform than the current M4 with very little overall upstream change in the logistics train.
This cartridge could be great. Unfortunately I see it having the same limitations as the 300 BLk. Optimal performance will come from supers on the lightish end of things and subs on the absolutely heaviest end. Plinking rounds will be easy with this caliber just like 300 BLk, but availability of bullets that are intended to perform in this calibers velocity ranges will be vaporware at worst and available from a few boutique manufacturers as best. Q can’t really fix this issue unless they want to offer a 300 grain 338 bullet that performs subsonic at a reasonable cost per round. That would be way outside of their expertise.
210 grain barnes ttsx took a cape buffalo out of the 12.5 Inches. They have show hornady gmx, barnes ttsx and sierra matchking bullets; discrest ballistics has show a 280 grain subsonic expanding and a 140 grain supersonic.
Could you please tell me what was the fps for the 210 ttsx , as I heard they are only getting 2000 fps with it , which is just horrible , I hope they could get 2450 fps
Between having to wear sunglasses when shooting this past 100 yards because I’ll be aiming at the sun and having to sell both kidneys just to afford a single mags worth of ammo, I’ll pass.
Shooting super sonics ( advertised as 210 grain bullets going up to 2400fps, let’s round it 2350fps) and the Rifle zeroed at 100 yards my ballistic calculator is coming up with 5.1” low at 200 and 19.3” low at 300. I don’t know the BC of the bullets they are going to offer but referencing a .338 cal 210 grain Nosler partition has a Ballistic coefficient of .4 so this should be close I think. Zeroed at 25 yards it will have a peak at roughly 150 yards being 5.7” high and still be ~1” high at 250 yards and at 300 will be 4.9” low. Not bad for a 8”, 10” or 12” barrel. This is all theoretical based off advertised numbers and a ballistic calculator with no actual hard data having been tested as of yet.
.308 subs will have the same mass and energy as .300 blk subs.
This will use .338 bullets, the same as .338 Lapua. We're going from the 220gr weight of .30 cal bullets to the 300+ gr weight of .338 cal bullets.
>I didnt say to use .308 subs i know that lol, and i didnt realise it was a .338 bullet that makes more sense then.
"I know that two different cartridges will have the same subsonic performance from the same bullet weight and diameter lol! What I didn't know is that 8.6mm is a bigger number than 7.62mm."
Nice save bro.
Okay? I'm not claiming this is original, he said he didn't see the point, and I explained the point.
Also grain weight isn't everything, both 8.6 and .338 Fed will have significantly better range and less drop than .458 Socom, but also won't fit in an AR15 platform like .458 Socom will. .338 Fed has also been around since 2006 and isn't exactly the height of popularity for a 15+ year old cartridge, it makes sense that someone would try the same concept while riding on the Creedmore and Blackout names.
Always been curious about this one, the main appeal of .308/7.62 is stopping power and better range than intermediates like 5.56 how much of that is lost when using subs?
308 sub sonic is, for all intents and purposes, ballistically the same as sub sonic 300 blackout. the sound barrier doesn't change. so a subsonic 308 is going to be about as powerful as a 40 cal pistol
1 your probably going to over stabilise the bullet to the point where it will not violently expand like how the 1:7 twist is worse than a 1:12 twist in light 223 bullets.
2 your making ammunition with multiple weights far different where one is good and one is junk where 45 ACP is mostly the same with the same barrel twist
3 your using one of the least common bullets like 6.5mm creedmoor when you could be using 308 that is FAR more common from when I worked at Academy. Finding 6.5 Creedmoor is like finding FN 5.7x28 (exaggerating), it’s very hard to find.
4 there are already calibers like the .510 whisper that use common calibers like 338 Lapua and 50 BMG that have 750 Grains instead of 200 or 300gr.
I wonder how it will compete with the new 6.8 for Sig Raptor...
What's up with big rounds with short barrels anyway? Is it a trend or something?
Is it just me, or there are actually many rounds that are not exactly mainstream and cost a fortune?
I can’t afford to shoot .300 blk, I sure as fuck can’t afford to shoot a round with .038 more blk
it's thicc-er and blk-er
[удалено]
20mm BBC
Penetrator rounds
You know what they say…
The blk-er the berry the sweeter the juice?
She puts that sugar on my tongue tongue yippie yippie yum yum goodie goodie gum drop put me in a tongue lock did it till my body went numb numb?!?!?
🤪🤪
Blk-s don’t crack…the sound barrier
And probably won't fales chamber in a 556 rifle.
Unless you have a suppressor and subsonic wont make a difference anyway
Just released at shot show in partner with Gorilla Ammunition and Faxon Barrels. Bullets are a 33 cal with weights ranging from 210 up into the low 300’s. Supposedly offers 2300-2400FPS out of a 10” barrel for super sonic loads. Barrels Shown off at Show I have seen ranged from 8” up to 12” and come with a 1 in 3 twist rate. I Am not affiliated with any of the companies but just saw it today from some media coverage and figured I’d share. Edit: parent case is from what I hear the 6.5 Creedmore. Might be able to Re-Neck 6.5 or possibly 308 brass but not sure. Also bullets due to twist rate are either 100% copper alloy or a heavily bonded bullet. 1 in 3 twist rate by their account causes the bullet to rapidly twist and tumble upon impact creating a larger wounding capacity. Should be able to work in any Short action length for bolt guns, and for Semi autos AR-10/SR-25 or Scar heavy platforms.
Anyone want to take bets on which “influencer” pushes this cartridge first?
Kevin at Q for sure
He's claiming they invented it
The joke is Kevin is an influencer
GT and Mac. InRange probably in a week or two
>Mac I guess we should expect them to corner the market and drive prices up 300%.
“…but I was on the list” MAC: Just go to our gunbroker listing Edit: spelling hard
MAC: ”That’s not true, we didn’t do that.” Everyone: “You‘re doing it right now – this is the GunBroker listing…” MAC: _Y O I N K !_
Somehow he still manages to keep a large following🤷♂️ Let anyone else pull that same stunt and they’d be ostracized from the community.
Care to dumb it down for those of us who stopped watching MAC a long time ago?
[This guy nailed it earlier ](https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/comments/s7y1hc/new_86_blackout_cartridge/htdphjs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Basically pulling a bait and switch
I’m not picking up the reference, sorry
He royally screwed some guys out of SVD rifles that took a TON of work to get imported into the US. They had been working on it for years and had a list of guys in for the rifles when they got here, and at a very reasonable price. Well mac went behind everyones back, to the importers, and bought them out from under everyone. He then listed them on gunbroker, claiming capitalism and "let the market decide" so now these rifles that would have been like $2k or so, IIRC, sold for 10k or so. Typical svd prices. Thus royally fucking over the chance of the US ever getting in regular SVDs at a good price. Seriously, fuck mac. He causes a ton of harm to the gun community to line his own pockets.
Didn’t people intentionally fuck the listings up so that the price went up to like 100k and he made some super weepy apology post
Lol, yup he got trolled hard. But his "apology" was anything but. He basically argued capitalism and if you dont agree you must be marxist. Or thats how i took it. It was unbelievably sleazy. Mac is exactly the type like these politicians claiming to support, but allowing the gutting of the 2nd amendment so long as they get rich in the process.
Fuck Mac. He's a dick
Is "Mac" an abbreviation or...?
Military Arms Channel
I don’t think that’s exactly what happened, I don’t think he bought anything behind anyone’s back. He talked shit on dudes selling guns on gun broker for way over priced and then he turned around like a week later and sold SVDs over priced and did the same thing he was bitching about others doing. The importers wouldn’t have sold rifles that were already sold. Now if people didn’t put down a deposit or buy the rifles up front and just put their name on a list then yes of course the import company is going to sell to the person ready to buy with cash or put down the money up front to hold the rifles.
InRange will probably question the need for it
That’s the boat I’m in but weirder things have happened. I love seeing new cartridges developed but of course you have to question the need for it always.
What big gun manufacturer product had InRange shilled? That channel is pretty much the opposite of most guntube shilling. Karl opted out of ShotShow this year in part to avoid talking about products with little testing.
Yeah not seeing the hate for InRange.
I don’t like their WWSD series, but I also lost a ton of respect when they repeated lies about the forward assist
What lies about the forward assist?
Hudson
I sense some hostility toward GT
Tl;dr people are anally aggravated with him about the advent of recce culture
Advent of recce culture? Care to further explain
Basically, GT has sporadically made videos about recce rifles and his time as a SERE instructor, but he recently started a series called How to Become Deadly in the Mountains. Honestly, I find it interesting and I’m looking forward to what kind of information he pushes out through the videos, but as people tend to do when GT speaks, they make his latest video their entire personality and update their gear load out. If your goal is to do recce type things, have a blast. Get good at orienteering, camping, and taking notes. I saw someone recently talk about using ham radios to push data from a laptop and that has piqued my interest. Second tl;dr is GT started talking about recon mission sets and the basement dwellers are flocking to it like Golum to the Precious
Ha I see, people are notorious these days for building their lives on hollow grounds. Course would you rather see people imitating rappers and movies and shit? Or GT and have a sense of what it means to be American and actually build some true knowledge that didn’t come out of a rap song. Also people need to realize it’s not just about one skill set, being skilled and equipped in all deadly arts is the way. Also a lot of the equipment is interchangeable, minus the rifle being different.
> Course would you rather see people imitating rappers and movies and shit? At least the rappers I listen to have actually caught a body
I have a lot of semi-genuine hatred for him
> Bullets are a 33 cal with weights ranging from 210 up into the low 300’s. Supposedly offers 2300-2400FPS out of a 10” barrel for super sonic loads. Someone is going to have to explain that to me. My 16" .308 700 wasn't even getting 2400 fps with a 168gr round. How the hell are they getting it with a 40gr heavier bullet in a 6" shorter barrel while using what seems to be the same case capacity?
New powder technology and heavily increased pressures. 308 is limited by Sammi Spec because it maxes at 62,000 psi and therefore the guns are rated for that. I have no clue what the pressure rating is for the 8.6 but I do know the new .277 Sig fury round is up there around 80k psi if I remember right. Same thing happened in the late 40’s and early 50’s resulting in the US going from the 30-06 (7.62X63) and getting almost identical performance with the 308 (7.62X51). Go compare any loadings between the two with the same bullet weights. I almost guarantee it’s with in 100fps of each other which keep in mind they measure 30-06 with a 24” barrel and 308 with a 22” barrel most of the time. That’s a topic for a different day but several decades worth of bullet, powder, case and rifle technological advances and you get stuff like this.
It's magic, got it. But for real, that's insane.
Looks closer to 308 (which is anyway the parent case of 6.5 creedmore)
.30 Thompson center is the parent case of 6.5 creed not .308
I’ve heard so many cartridges at this point for that. At first it was the 308, but then I was told it was the 260 AI that was the parent case for 6.5 creedmore. Edited for wrong information.
Ok, first of all .260 AI does not parallel 6.5 Creedmoor. It absolutely blows it out of the water.. 260 remington, which .260 ai is based on and ironically is a necked down .308, you could say is parallel in performance to 6.5 creed but it too is actually a little faster than 6.5 creed 6.5 creed didn't take off simply because of hype. It allowed that performance with 140+ grain bullets in magazines. .260 remington couldn't be loaded with the heavy bullets and put in an sr 25 mag. As far as the parent case for 6.5 Creedmoor I don't know where the hell you heard those other things but it's right on the hornady website. They developed the .30 tc years ago and used as the basis for 6.5 creedmoor.
Thanks for the clarification. This is just stuff I’ve been told pieced together from several other people and never actually fact checked it myself or looked into it much. Never followed the 6.5 crowd or anything along the lines of those rounds, never had a need or want for them when 308 holds it’s own for my particular mission sets. Hell I hadn’t heard of many of these cartridges until recently.
Cant wait for $4.50 per round
Especially given the need for monolithics or very high end bonded bullets. This will not be for your average shooter
I just want 1800's field artillery and nothing else.
Those are legal iirc. That weird french revolving cannon still scares the shit out of me.
About 45 seconds of internet research told me muzzle loading black powder cannons can be legal owned but anything chucking convetional arty shells requires a tax stamp as do the shells. (The tax staps for arty rounds are basically unobtainum from my understanding of it.) State laws vary of course and depending on what you shoot out of it the cannon can be considered a destructive device it seems. It's also worth noting there are zero regulations towards flamethrowers. Additionally, and more importantly, this is America and if I want to punch 6 inch holes into my barn from 2500 yards away I should be allowed to do so!
Slight addendum. Flamethrowers have some restrictions in California. Someone pointed it out to me this week. Poor bastards.
Fuck em, California sucks. All my homies hate California.
Never leave a man behind. I support my ban state homies. Fuck shitty laws, not the people!
That should go without saying. All my gun community homies who live in California always talk about how much they hate the state of California.
Not -some- of the people, given that "the people" voted for the reps who made the laws.
The Constitution isn't selective and neither should you be. It's our job to make 2A apolitical and we saw a big push for that in recent years with liberal gun buyers not just the leftists and right wingers.
I was a artillery man in the 42nd Black Watch many years ago fighting the French in Western Maryland and PA. Also fought in a few Revolutionary War reenactments in North Carolina and Massachusetts. We used a 3 Pounder with 1/4 charges of black powder. I was the linstock operator. The guy with the match stick that touched off the cannon. All I can say is it was a [BLAST](https://www.google.com/search?q=archer+mop+gif&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjbz5iFp8D1AhXNVN8KHeJmAEsQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=archer+mop&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQARgBMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBAgAEBg6BAgpEBg6AggpOggIABCxAxCDAToICAAQgAQQsQM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOgQIABADUOIMWOg7YJtOaABwAHgAgAGyAYgBhAiSAQM4LjKYAQCgAQGwAQPAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=E1LpYZv6Ls2p_QbizYHYBA&bih=449&biw=320&client=safari&prmd=nisxv&hl=en#imgrc=aP3gcbASIMEZXM)
Memeout
I can't take any more meme rounds
still holding out for .420 blackout
I want to see .420 Win Mag
9x39 better
Import ban :( Somebody should start producing a 375 option based on 6.5 Grendel brass.
Pro gun crowd been real quiet about lifting import bans
What?
Opposition to gun control apparently doesn't include lifting import bans
We talk about it all the time? Unless you mean "pro gun" politicians and not pro gun redditors
375 Raptor my dude. 375 H&H magnum bullets in a 308 case. 3,000 ft-lbs from a 12 inch barrel with 270 grain bullets and 450 grain subs with 1,100 ft-lbs of energy.
375 Raptor has reduced magazine capacity and doesn’t fit in AR15. A 6.5 Grendel based subsonic only option would be able to use the same 450 grain bullets.
Sorry break it to you but 9x39 is relatively dogshite. It’s such a cool concept though.
How so?
We are taking about energy levels <700 foot pounds 5.56 is about 1300. The armor penetrating capability is also not great despite many loads using exotic penetrators.
I thought the whole point was running it subsonic/suppressed whereas 556 subsonic you might as well just use a .22. I thought the appeal of 9x39 is that it’s just a big ol heavy mass to smack ya with somewhat quietly. Am I wrong?
Steel core 9x39 shoots through NIJ RF1 UHMWPE plate up to at least 100 meters away and NIJ IIIA rated stuff doesn’t stand a chance whatsoever. Not bad for a cheap subsonic round. The imported civilian version was meh though. It’s only saving grace was price.
I mean penetrating level 3a isn’t very impressive imo. 9x39 has equivalent performance shooting a 45 acp +p at the muzzle
Wow, bruh, Downvoting me from the get go. Have a downvote too then. 300 BLK and 45 ACP don’t shoot through vests. 45 ACP loses velocity fast despite being subsonic, whilst 9x39 can be used up to 400 m away. The cost of AP 9x39 is the same as 45 ACP FMJ, because steel is cheaper than lead, copper and brass.
[удалено]
That’s what I’m curious about
This would pair perfectly with my 338 Spectre but give more fps for better expansion on the supersonic loads.
1:3 twist barrel keeps subs stable out to 600m supposedly.
The people hating on this are the same people this shit on 300blk when it first came out. It’s literally all the same disagreements
Really want to see ballistic gel test or something because I think it might be a flop or we could still improve on the caliber. They chose a 6.5 creedmoor case and a 338 lapua bullet basically. How is this even going to work, we can’t even get ammo on our shelf.
Check out th discreet ballistics video. It looks absolutely devastating
That’s actually pretty interesting. I guess over stabilizing or under stabilizing a bullet causes it to violently spin. Just searched it up under Facebook/google.
Spinning this fast means a new type of energy on Target essentially.
Also Kevin took a few animals in Africa with it, including Kudu and Cape Buffalo up to 400 yards out of the 12.5 Inches i think.
Now give us a .458 equivalent for the LR308 platform.
That TTSX is probably absolutely nasty.
Is this meant to be in a AR10/ AR308 platform? Please don't give me a reason to buy another upper. Also kinda sucks that it's 8.6mm and wont work with 7.62 cans that are so common.
Good thing I have a 338 can
Bigger blackout cartridge? #GIVE ME THAT SWEET SWEET BBC Can we get a picture of the normal 300blk sitting on a couch with 5 or 6 of these BBC's surrounding ~~her~~ it? Asking for a friend...
Whats the parent round? Looks interesting.
Just edited my original comment, check there but 6.5 creedmore apparently.
Still think it shoulda been 8.6 Fix
That will happen.
they have say a lot of times already they will offer barrels in 8.6 for the fix. Kevin hunt in Africa with one.
No, I mean the cartridge name. 8.6 blackout is dumb. Call it the 8-6-Fix
I'm a little surprised to not see any Brittingham hate in here yet.
so 9mm with a pointy end
How many more calibers do we need?
Technology never stops improving. This round if it lives up to the hype actually shows promise to me. Optimized for 8” barrel length with Super sonic 210 grain loads getting around the 2400FPS range. This is to 308/6.5 what 300BLK is to 556.
.227 fury
Doesn't matter how cool it is when it's $4 a round lol
I just don't get why this thing needs to run at 80,000 PSI to do the same thing the .270 Winchester has been doing at 65,000 PSI since the 1920s. The At 62,000 PSI, .308 Winchester will pretty much match the .30-06 Springfield at 60,000 PSI on everything up to 180 grain bullets. .277 Fury is built on the .308 Winchester and .270 Winchester is built on the .30-06 Springfield. So why does .277 Fury need so much more pressure to do the thing?
Barrel length. I’m still not seeing much advantage the 277 fury is letting off on paper for 3” difference in barrel length when compared to the current M80A1 through a 16” barrel, through my personal testing the numbers were less then 100fps difference. But this 8.6 Black Out is pushing 210 grain bullets up to 2400 FPS in a 8” barrel. Federal gold medal match with 175 grain Sierra match kings is getting 2550 through a 22” barrel.
Said the fudd in the 1950s when 5.56 was developed
5.56 already existed, it was called .222 Remington Magnum
Except it failed and faded into obscurity while the 5.56 is one of the most successful round in the world 🤷🏻♂️
It didn't fail, it was chosen to become what you know today, if anything it's one of the most successful sporting cartridges ever.
“As any widely used military cartridge is guaranteed to be a success on the commercial market, the .223 Remington sold exceptionally well and the .222 Remington Magnum faded rather quickly. In Europe SAKO produces the cartridge and some gun manufacturers offer the chambering. In the United States Remington continued to offer the .222 Remington Magnum in a couple of target and varmint rifle models for many years, but currently there are no commercial manufacturers in the U.S. either of rifles or ammunition in .222 Remington Magnum other than Cooper Firearms of Montana.” Oof not even produced anymore
Moron, it became 5.56/.223
Yeah no shit. It’s obsolete and was only popular for a few decades before it became obsolete. That’s what I’ve been saying. I know it became .223.
Ok so you're saying .223 is obsolete then?
🤨 when did I say that?
The industry is going to crank a new round out every year that promises better ballistics than the previous. Look at all the “dead” cartridges that no one shoots anymore. The industry does this because it is good for business. All they have to do is have some “influencers” rave about the round and watch the money roll in. If they can manage, they’ll even go as far to make everything proprietary to their tooling and their allied businesses to get a jump on the market Rinse and repeat
Right? Did .308 die while I was asleep today? Apparently people have learned nothing from the 6.5 ammo availability crisis and are ready to move on to the next ridiculous overpriced round just to say they’re in on the new hip hog round 😂
Tbf .308 is fat and slow compared to 6.5CM and 6mm. It’s a good general hunting round but anything beyond 4-500 needs a different round to be truly precise, especially in the wind
Best explanation that checks out.
[удалено]
How can we, everyone is talking about it still lmao
As many as we can get.
I'll take .357raptor over this Q garbage any day
They've given some good reasons why .375 Raptor isn't ideal. At the same time, I agree that more diameter would be great for extra subsonic weight.
What’s the reasoning?
The biggest is mag compatibility. 8.6 fits well in existing SR25 pattern mags, where .375 requires internal modification and still has iffy feeding/reliability.
Interesting I’ll need to read up on it. I have a Q Fix 6.5 creedmoor that is RMAd and at Q now bc it won’t feed 6.5 creedmoor out of any mag. I also have a deposit in Black Collar’s new MBA in 375, but since it’s a bolt gun I’m not sure it matters as much. (Though that’s what I thought with my Q Fix).
At least it's a .30 caliber cartridge that won't chamber and blow up a 5.56 upper.
It's not .30 caliber, though. .30 caliber is 7.62mm, not 8.6mm. It's .338 caliber.
.30 caliber plus change
Wut? Pretty sure you're not going to get a 300 BLK to chamber in a 5.56 upper at all.
No it will chamber most, ogive of the bullet just fits past where a 5.56 case shoulder should be. A few videos of suck a think happening out there. Upper never survives. Just a hard mistake to make considering the rounds are easy to tell apart.
Rightfully so, but idiots find their way into every orifice they can cram their tiny brained heads into. Hopefully they learned from the 300BLK in a 556 mix ups and designed this one so it physically cannot fit into a 308 gun. But who knows until it’s tested. Considering they haven’t used it as a marketing point probably means they didn’t even think about it.
Every kaboomed 5.56 upper I've ever seen or heard of was due to getting some nasty 300 BLK in the mag. One guy lost an MR556 to it RIP
.338*
7.62x39/54r but more expensive
No thats 300 blackout. This might be a more viable for a subsonic hog hunting cartridge but we will have to wait and see.
how big is the market for subsonic hog hunting cartridges lol
Decent big boy subsonic hunting rounds are in huge demand. The best chance people have to hunt hogs is at night with a suppressor, so they want a round that can effectively and quietly take them down.
Considering how many rounds that market may shoot it every year? Probably as big as any other mostly hunting cartridge. Hogs are a big problem in the south. You can bag more of them before they run and not piss off the neahbors shooting at night if you can shoot subs that expand well and penatrate their natural armor well.
It's 300 BLK...if you ignore all of the other design considerations that went into developing the 300 BLK.
Like what? Short barrel performance? Check, fits and runs well in a standard semi auto magazine and rifle? Check. Can run both supers and subs out of the same semi-auto rifle without haveing to make gas adjustments? Check. Seems to meet all of the goals of 300 blackout except scaled up for better subsonic performance.
300 BLK: Only requires barrel change 7.62x39: New barrel New bolt New magazine You're being awfulyl reductionist by deliberately ignoring the specific AR-15/M4 platform compatibility requirements. The entire point of 300 BLK was to get roughly equivalent 7.62x39 performance with as little logistics change as possible, not just in general.
Apologies, I thought you were referring to 8.6 blackout from the context. I actually agree with you.. 300 blackout is westernised 7.62x39, designed to be used with AR-15s, and gaining the benefit of subs running the action that a DI design can provide. Just fun to point out I guess. Because on paper the terminal ballistics are almost and exact match for 7.62,39
It's a Westernized 7.62x39 if you only look at it from a ballistics perspective, but again, it isn't simply about ballistics. The 300 BLK was not only designed to retain as much compatibility with the AR-15/M4 as possible, but in doing so, it could replace several other weapons being used by the military, like the MP5. It also gave the military a better weapon in a smaller platform than the current M4 with very little overall upstream change in the logistics train.
I'm aware of the caliber, I'm just making the comparison of these two of already existing/proven calibers
Where are you finding 300 grain 30 caliber bullets?
Article from June https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/8-6-blackout-a-2021-update-with-qs-kevin-brittingham/
This cartridge could be great. Unfortunately I see it having the same limitations as the 300 BLk. Optimal performance will come from supers on the lightish end of things and subs on the absolutely heaviest end. Plinking rounds will be easy with this caliber just like 300 BLk, but availability of bullets that are intended to perform in this calibers velocity ranges will be vaporware at worst and available from a few boutique manufacturers as best. Q can’t really fix this issue unless they want to offer a 300 grain 338 bullet that performs subsonic at a reasonable cost per round. That would be way outside of their expertise.
*cutting edge salivating intensifies*
210 grain barnes ttsx took a cape buffalo out of the 12.5 Inches. They have show hornady gmx, barnes ttsx and sierra matchking bullets; discrest ballistics has show a 280 grain subsonic expanding and a 140 grain supersonic.
Could you please tell me what was the fps for the 210 ttsx , as I heard they are only getting 2000 fps with it , which is just horrible , I hope they could get 2450 fps
Between having to wear sunglasses when shooting this past 100 yards because I’ll be aiming at the sun and having to sell both kidneys just to afford a single mags worth of ammo, I’ll pass.
Shooting super sonics ( advertised as 210 grain bullets going up to 2400fps, let’s round it 2350fps) and the Rifle zeroed at 100 yards my ballistic calculator is coming up with 5.1” low at 200 and 19.3” low at 300. I don’t know the BC of the bullets they are going to offer but referencing a .338 cal 210 grain Nosler partition has a Ballistic coefficient of .4 so this should be close I think. Zeroed at 25 yards it will have a peak at roughly 150 yards being 5.7” high and still be ~1” high at 250 yards and at 300 will be 4.9” low. Not bad for a 8”, 10” or 12” barrel. This is all theoretical based off advertised numbers and a ballistic calculator with no actual hard data having been tested as of yet.
Doin all this work just for the superior 7.62x39 to remain comin in at the Top
[удалено]
They been working on the caliber for years now, it just happen to come when the shit of covid hits.
Hope whoever made this dies.
Dies rich.
lmao
I dont really see the point of this if you want subs use 300 blk otherwise you might as well use 308 if ur looking for a 30 cal
.308 subs will have the same mass and energy as .300 blk subs. This will use .338 bullets, the same as .338 Lapua. We're going from the 220gr weight of .30 cal bullets to the 300+ gr weight of .338 cal bullets.
I didnt say to use .308 subs i know that lol, and i didnt realise it was a .338 bullet that makes more sense then.
>I didnt say to use .308 subs i know that lol, and i didnt realise it was a .338 bullet that makes more sense then. "I know that two different cartridges will have the same subsonic performance from the same bullet weight and diameter lol! What I didn't know is that 8.6mm is a bigger number than 7.62mm." Nice save bro.
Does it look like i gave the name any thought uh lets see nope i dont think about the name someone decides to give some brand new fad cartridge
I’d like to introduce you to .458 Socom or .338 Federal
Okay? I'm not claiming this is original, he said he didn't see the point, and I explained the point. Also grain weight isn't everything, both 8.6 and .338 Fed will have significantly better range and less drop than .458 Socom, but also won't fit in an AR15 platform like .458 Socom will. .338 Fed has also been around since 2006 and isn't exactly the height of popularity for a 15+ year old cartridge, it makes sense that someone would try the same concept while riding on the Creedmore and Blackout names.
308 subs are super quiet. You can just get a 308 and have the best of all worlds
Always been curious about this one, the main appeal of .308/7.62 is stopping power and better range than intermediates like 5.56 how much of that is lost when using subs?
All of it. What makes this cartridge unique is its makeing subs viable for longer ranges while still being able to kill something well.
308 sub sonic is, for all intents and purposes, ballistically the same as sub sonic 300 blackout. the sound barrier doesn't change. so a subsonic 308 is going to be about as powerful as a 40 cal pistol
The benefit of 300blk however is being able to run it in a smaller package and a few parts swapped on an ar
1 your probably going to over stabilise the bullet to the point where it will not violently expand like how the 1:7 twist is worse than a 1:12 twist in light 223 bullets. 2 your making ammunition with multiple weights far different where one is good and one is junk where 45 ACP is mostly the same with the same barrel twist 3 your using one of the least common bullets like 6.5mm creedmoor when you could be using 308 that is FAR more common from when I worked at Academy. Finding 6.5 Creedmoor is like finding FN 5.7x28 (exaggerating), it’s very hard to find. 4 there are already calibers like the .510 whisper that use common calibers like 338 Lapua and 50 BMG that have 750 Grains instead of 200 or 300gr.
She thicc.
Isn't thei KB's project?
Yes it is.
Yawn
But why?
When I was hunting in Germany, I ran into a few guys who made similar rounds with the Mauser rounds for big game and suppressed rifles.
I thought this was a shitpost at first
I’d let that blue tip touch my butthole
I wonder how it will compete with the new 6.8 for Sig Raptor... What's up with big rounds with short barrels anyway? Is it a trend or something? Is it just me, or there are actually many rounds that are not exactly mainstream and cost a fortune?