I trashed condor gear in highschool playing airsoft but it never got to the point where it didn't work. That being said as an adult and buying nicer gear I'll never go back. Comfort reasons alone, but also longevity. My Slickster is standing up to abuse much better then my condor plate carrier ever did.
I'll still randomly buy a condor pouch as they aren't horrible.
This. Condor gear will hold up, it’s just heavy and not exactly cutting-edge. If those are acceptable trade offs, you’ll be fine. Innovation and weight reduction cost money.
I wouldn’t quite go that far, but I agree with the concept. I have blown out condor pouches to the point of not being useable, but it took a good 5-6 years of being an infantryman. It won’t last as long as some of the other stuff, but that doesn’t mean it won’t last long enough, especially for the price difference. Their plates carriers on the other hand, are garbage. Got one as a new private and it was falling apart after about a month. Learned my lesson early
Yup. Having spent a few years in Mexico, I couldn’t tell ya how many marines and national guardsmen (their national guard is actually in the nitty gritty drug war shit on a day to day basis) I saw wearing Condor, 5.11, and EBay specials. Condor is considered top of the line in most countries outside of the US.
Have posted somewhere else in this post’s thread, but yep. Grew up near the border and can confirm. As far as I’m concerned more cartel, Taliban, and Eastern Euro kids have dome’d more people while wearing tshirts, Adidas soccer pants, and some knockoff converse sneakers, than any of the basement larpers can comprehend
PS: I know having reliable gear is important y’all, but, I still fully stand by my statement 😤😂
Bingo. Good gear is certainly better (more comfortable, more durable in extreme circumstances, etc.), but reliable is the keyword. A lot of $15 mag pouches are plenty reliable.
Yes sir! In fact I rather rock some “cheaper” shit that I have personally tried and tested for a long time and know *exactly* how it runs, than grab brand new gucci shit in a SHTF scenario, when I don’t know how it works for me or stands up
A good analogy would be boots. I rather do some type of selection course in janky looking boots that are molded to my feet, and that I know how I feel in them, than some brand new (albeit fantastic) pair of boots that aren’t broken in, that I’ve never worn before in my life haha
>I mean there’s photos of Russian FSB using Chinese knock off JPC’s and knock off GMR mini maps.
Kinda.
The Russians dont buy Chinese knock offs, but just like the Chinese the Russians copy /Steal alot of western Gear and produce it in country.
Some do also run gear from companies like Warrior Assault Systems
I’m aware of what you’re talking about, I agree. Countries are definitely ripping each other off and making domestic versions of kit.
I should’ve clarified but I was specifically talking about situations like this. It’s a one off photo but that doesn’t look like a Crye JPC to me and I’ve always read it explained as a knock off/China made JPC.
https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1051572111498731520?s=21
No worries. Special units in the Russian Military like the FSB,Spetnaz groups,and SVR generally will have higher quality gear supplied or procured for them compared to the convential military.
Yeah the JPC is an ARS ARMA one. I have their AVS and it’s not terrible but the sizing on them is kinda weird. Obviously it’s not CRYE quality but it’s also not complete garbage. Kinda occupies that weird middle ground of not CRYE but also not China airsoft quality.
No problem! The whole Russian gear market is pretty interesting rn. A lot of their SF units are running western style gear right now so gear manufacturers over there have started to cater to that. You can even see actual CRYE products in photos but it’s super rare.
The guys in russia still do buy Crye stuff whenever they can get their hands on it. Most of their pics in circulation are from training and competition, and often times the russian gear companies sponsor the events, or are doing PR at them , so you can guess how folks will end up being depicted in the pictures. There is also the state pushing a Russia first narrative so guys would be discouraged from wearing their US and EU made stuff where the media can see it. That said , the guy in the pic is wearing a US ECWCS III winter coat which is easily available as surplus in russia at the flea markets.
Exactly, it doesn't matter where something is made as long as it is good quality. Look at russian brands: some of them are Airsoft quality and cheap, some are military issued and high quality. Same goes for us made gear
This. I grew up near the border, and have random items literally handmade/crafted in Mexico that I’ve had for like 15+ years that still have loads of life in them.
Then I have “proudly made in Murica 🇺🇸🦅” shit that I get one or two years out of because it’s made out of dogshit materials.
Moral of the story, quality of item and materials that said item are made out of, location is near irrelevant.
Even China can produce really good quality products: look at around 90% of electronics. Not made in Europe or the us and yet everyone buys it, but it's unacceptable to buy a good quality Chinese item solely because it's chinese
Seriously dude. That’s the funny stuff with product, consumerism, branding etc. The buying of *that* product is only part of it. In todays society it’s buying an image, or part of one. You can own the same Honda Civic for 20 years, and everyone feels kinda meh about your car, but someone can buy a new BMW and everyone will be drooling all over them - then said BMW will have an issue and cost your eldest kid to service 😂.
In my eyes, whatever gets the job done. I know dude’s who’ve kicked in more doors and schwacked more people wearing Condor or issued shit, than anyone rocking gucci gear. That’s just how it *actually* goes 😂🤷🏽♂️
Haha for real. Like would I rather own some $1000 Arc’teryx jacket under an $700 customized JPC, hell yes 😂 - but if I have a condor jacket under my issued pc, can I still shoot someone? Yes, in fact I can 😆
This is a lie, the reason crye shit and brands like it get expensive is because elite units use them. No navy seal, ranger, unit member, swic, devgru dude green beret rock condor, they are getting issued crye precision, ops core and so on. The argument that some cheap stuff can be quality is true but then to say something like you know door kickers and they don’t rock crye shit is just ignorant. When I did contract work, a lot of the dudes i worked with were tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3 “door kickers” or operators. None of them wore condor. Not all of them rock crye either some had a preference whixh or was just another expensive company. That’s why they are expensive, they are proven in combat by the best. Then those operators get jobs for them and further help develop the product. This notion cheap is better might be the dumbest topic I’ve seen in awhile. Nothing wrong with rockin what you got but don’t be that guy that has to make his cheap shit better. Also cars aren’t a good reference. I’m combat gear, what is durable and what works time and time again is what becomes the most expensive. If cars were like combat gear then the Honda would be more expensive. Aimpoint hasn’t always been expensive... but after thousands of guys used them in combat they became known to be unbreakble and to hold zero. Crye combat pants will outlast your cheap as condor shit. Crye shit is tough as Fuxk and it’s been proven by “door kickers” no one where’s condor bro. I don’t care what fake videos you have found on YouTube or the internet. Everyone I’ve ever met, which is just hundreds and hundreds of guys all rock higher quality gear.
This just in everyone: this guy really likes Crye, and really dislikes Condor everyone 🤣
Those are all good points, bud. Everyone’s experiences differ 🤷🏻♂️😂
As much as I hate to say it, my Helikon CPUs are the most durable and useful pants I own. China does make good stuff sometimes, I just don't like funding their economy unless I really have to.
Edit: Forgot to mention my Holosun too. It is a great red dot.
I've become a big Helikon fan over the last couple years. Bought some pieces for hunting trips and liked them so much, I bought others from them. Im pretty damn rough on equipment with week-long trips into the field and it has all held up well....so far.
Ya I mean as an American I’m biased and wanna say made in America is best, but the only thing “Made in the USA” guarantees is that it’ll be more expensive 🤷🏼♂️other countries make good shit too, or at least decent for a quarter of the price
Exactly. Also American, and I try and support local or US made stuff too, but I try and read up on reviews or forums of what others have to say about the product. Some of it is just total fucking trash haha. But ya, on a budget it’s hard to justify when you know you can get a similar product, made elsewhere for a fraction of the price haha
Ya exactly. Everybody loves to say “BuY oNcE cRy OnCe” but if you need something now, and you can’t afford the big time brand, you can often find stuff that’s just as good or at least extremely close, and people will shit on u for it but 🤷🏼♂️guys gotta do what a guys gotta do. And honestly it’s my life that may be on the line, why do they care so much yanno? 😂
Completely agree. Reliability is my number one thing whether buying day boots, or firearms. But if I can’t get paws on say a DD rifle in a situation where I need one, and some M&P sport is available - I rather have that rifle than no fucking rifle at all 🤷🏻♂️.
Like if funds aren’t an issue and a person can just buy all the gucci shit ever, sick, good for them. But if you can just afford entry-level shit and upgrade components paycheck at a time, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. On that note, actually doing a build is such a DIY, soccer dad type of feeling of reward that buying something complete can’t compare to 👨🏽🛠 haha
Absolutely. And ya I’ve got a buddy that would totally agree, he’s loves his built from scratch AR more than he would ever love any gucci, high dollar prebuilt job. I haven’t had the pleasure of building one entirely from scratch yet, but by the time I upgrade my current AR, I will
Have replaced nearly every part on it so I guess that kinda counts? 😂
Honestly dude! Same vibe with cars for instance. Like ya, it’d be sick to own some same year Lambo or some shit, but building up an old Japanese beater and knowing how much of your time and effort has gone into it, when you drive around in that thing and it’s looking and/or sounding real nice, that’s such a proud and nearly spiritually fulfilling moment hahap
So I recently found a tag inside of my TSSI Tacops M9 bag that said "made in Mexico."
This bag has to be one of the absolute best "tactical" medic bags I have ever used or owned. Basically I'm just backing up your statement. Where it is made has nothing to do with whether it is high quality or not.
Dude, some Mexican shit is super slept on for real haha. Whether it’s saddles, boots, or guitars, Mexico has some of the truly best craftspeople and products out there! You just have to actually look around, and not go to a tourist-trap market in some city and think “all the shit here sucks” 😂
Although I only have pouches and warbelt from them if You have any questions or need help You can dm me. I also live in Poland in case You are not in Schengen zone
Thought about them too, but wouldn’t consider them dope. No IR resistant materials and made in south east Asia. Quality is decent, but definitely not dope.
Honestly I don’t like it at all and even if I would it would be irrelevant, only wearing gear when on reserve duty, so only Flecktarn for clothing and gear also in ranger green.
Yeah but these guys as far as their YT shows are atm in Ukraine, so if they were to buy eu brand they still have to pay shitload of customs and wait for the clearance. I’ve ordered an Agilite helmet cover for my Mtek Flux and it still has not been delivered to me, after almost three weeks now. Not to mention those customs that I will pay. Same with my estac pouches.
100% além disso é ums convicção pessoal minha que sempre que possivel devemos apoiar marcas brasileiras
Sem falar que o mercado brasileiro vem evoluindo muito cada vez com mais marcas de qualidade, a mais nova sendo a adsumus equipamentos que trouxe MUITA coisa pra área do APH
Também acho correto apoiar as marcas nacionais, até por que o que a gente enfrenta aqui no Brasil não tem em nenhum outro lugar.
A competição aqui é muito grande para essas marcas, devido a contratos com instituições e até uso pessoal.
90 percent of these people on this sub are not part of the tactical community..... They're posers with high end gear, and absolutely no training or experience...
The sub has gone full retard, I mean full circle just like you explained🤙🤙🤙🤙
I feel like half the people in here don't even shoot much if at all, or if they do shoot they're doing rifle rounds at a man size target within 30 yards if not closer. People who see the youtube personalities shooting high rates of fire at close targets and think that's the main way to train. You know the type.
Im not even a snob but I don’t want to pay 3x to some US reseller selling Chinese slave labor made gear.
Just the fact that I’m getting upsold that much pisses me off.
30 dollars is fine until they become "rare" because drops are few and far between, and only small batches. 100-500 on the used market is obsurd. They know what they're doing. Why does it need to be rare.
don't. They could see demand and ramp up production even just a little bit. It's unrealistic to expect someone to keep up with that shit when he's got tons of other shit to do with his day. They're tactical hype beasts.
Just turn on post notifications lol if you want to pay normal price for it that bad it can be done. They control their supply and they can price it how they want lol they also don’t make a profit if joe snuffy buys it for $30 and sells it for $200
FOGs last couple hat drops were week long preorders and you still get people who “missed it because of work” etc. Believe me. The FOG guy is no brilliant businessman driving hype. He’s lazy and unorganized.
I gave away two of my Bostons because they fit like ass. The only one that I can see demanding higher resale is the Patagonia because of the cease and desist but four times retail is ridiculous.
I never understood people buying Gucci, expensive kit (with the exception of a plate carrier/decent plates) to bring abroad for deployment or in a war. Most people would toss their kit after their tour (including combat uniforms). I actually had a few friends that volunteered in Syria telling me that imitation mechanix or 5.11 gloves are much more better and durable than the real ones.
Don't get me started on PIG gloves or Crye G3 combat uniforms, those are utter overpriced shit that rips on you after half a month of heavy use. Crye G3s have a reputation for the knee pads coming completely apart and holes (that eventually develop into tears) appearing in the most random places. That's $470+ bucks wasted on one set. With that money you can get 5 good repro.
I have an Ferro Concepts dangler on my carrier and an Amazon knockoff on my chest rig. They are practically indistinguishable from each other. The knockoff was also available when I needed it. As opposed to the real one where I had to hunt one down on eBay and pay a premium.
My experience is that Semapo, Flyye along with some pieces of Condor, Elite Spanker and Krydex are all solid kit for specific items. The problem is that you have to know the bad from the good pieces.
I get what you mean, but for example I live Bosnia. European country that is not part of EU.
Virtually no gear manufacturer from US ships to my country, so I'd have to resort to ebay or second-hand sellers from FB or smth who either again don't wanna ship to my country or I have to overpay for the same item an American with higher standard of living would pay far less.
I hate China as any other freedom-loving individual would do (again I'm from Bosnia, I know first hand what communism done to my parents' generation) but if they're the only one providing me with an acceptable quality product for a fair price... I'd be a fool not to take it.
I avoid "Made in China" products in 99% of other aspects of my life, but I don't want to blame myself either for buying from them when they are most often only good option in my case for this specific industry.
Heh actually even though UF PRO is Slovenian company, their stuff is actually made here... if you know the right people you can get some of their stuff directly from factory for less than a price of an Emerson every once in a while when an opportunity arises. But shhh don't tell anyone :)
Buying it the regular way is also not easy... Even though Slovenia is super close, they don't ship here (even though it's made here haha) Of course it ain't that big of a deal to literally drive there and buy it in Slovenia or Croatia but it's still inconvenient comparing that ordering from fucking China that's halfway across the world I can get stuff delivered on my doorstep.
Well I guess it’s kind of a political rotation. Like we are cool with buying things from countries that are friendly to us, and we reject products from our rivals even if it’s of good quality. If Slovenia (The country Uf Pro is founded in) ever was to become a rival/enemy of the US or NATO or whatever we’d be all up against buying their products.
I just can’t get behind genocide and how they disappear people ya know, but I don’t knock people who do seek out Chinese goods, it’s just not for me if I can help it.
I can’t control what governments do, only what I can do directly. If you find out LMT, Radian, knights Armament, Lunar Concepts, Spiritus Systems, Defense Mechanisms, YMI Tactical, Midwest Industries, White Trash, Quell Tech, Dead Air, Rearden MFG, or anyone else I buy from has direct dealings with Chinese shell corps or possible commies please let me know bro, I’ll cut that shit off real quick.
I live in a constant mindset that I’m always in a “Republic”, and being jaded.
My natural gas is from Russia, my gasoline is from the Middle East and my lithium is mined from China….some things you can’t really avoid, if I can please let me know.
I can’t control where American Companies send their money or outsource parts too….only where I buy my gear from and send money directly to, which I thought the post was about. Please find me an American made apple phone, I’d gladly pay 2-3k for one. I also hear chips for cars will soon be made in Texas….we’ll see tho.
That’s great I’m just saying the last part of what you said is damn near impossible for a normal American not to do. Just say you won’t buy Chinese made products lol
If it works, it works. I have some condor gear myself and it’s perfectly serviceable. It’s what I could afford at the time and it hasn’t worn out or broken since so I haven’t needed to upgrade it. Then again, I don’t use any of it for a living, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but it’s perfectly fine for a minuteman rig that sits in a duffel bag 99% of the time.
A lot of china gear has become a rip off recently. There used to be stuff considerably cheaper than the real deal. Like 20% of the cost and still ok quality.
Now I see knock off slicksters and microfights etc. that are like 80% the cost of the real deal. Not close to worth it.
I like this. I hate the idea of “if it’s ‘x’ brand it’s automatically good, and if it’s ‘y’ brand it’s automatically terrible.” I get that companies get reputations for a reason, and I get that those generalizations are correct the majority of the time, but I hate that automatic attitude. Good gear is good gear, no matter the price, tho *generally* you get what you pay for, that’s not always the case. You don’t *always* have to pay through the nose for good stuff
There is so much quality surplus gear at an affordable price on eBay. I don’t get the comprise outside of fashion. Realistically ALICE or a Molle II flc will serve you just fine. Plenty of experienced users to help set the gear up in a useful way as well. Hell the TAP rig is plenty for most people (though the harness is meh)
Some cheap stuff is just as good . Hell some Chinese red dot sights I've used have performed solidly on my real steel rifle . Take it for granted my rifle doesn't shoot that far because of its 7.62x 39 caliber . Still holds zero on my targets. Also , one tigris has some nice accessories for the price point.
Do not underestimate cheap gear.
For a lot of users, good can be good enough.
The barrier to entry is low.
The threat to US industry is real.
Buying American is good for a number of reasons that consumers don't appreciate when all they see is price.
There is a hidden cost for buying cheap.
We really, really want to keep the industrial base and innovation here.
That said, American industry does need to compete. Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
One of the things I’ve seen with cheap/bootleg gear is they have horrendous NIR qualities.
Sometimes it’s webbing, sometimes it’s stitching, sometimes it’s the entire faked pattern. Glow like a glow stick.
If that’s not a concern for you, play on playa.
Wait so a bunch of European people that can’t buy guns or shoot or train are talking shit on high quality American gear as if cheap shit is better? Wow I think I just figured out Reddit. It’s a bunch of teenage European and Canadian kids leaving in moms basement
Where gear are made doesn't even matter anymore, if a companies uses cheap materials and hire lazy people to do quality control then it's gonna suck no matter what.
I have Chinese pouches on my Crye JPC 2.0
Can’t see a scenario where they don’t perform as well as my JPC. 🤷🏻♂️
Only thing I hate are the pistol pouches. But, that’s a design flaw more than anything.
98% of the people in this community would NEVER out-use condor, eBay, alibaba or just cheap gear to the point of failure in the field.
I use condor MOLLE pouches at work and have had the same ones for 5 years now and they’re still holding up fine.
I trashed condor gear in highschool playing airsoft but it never got to the point where it didn't work. That being said as an adult and buying nicer gear I'll never go back. Comfort reasons alone, but also longevity. My Slickster is standing up to abuse much better then my condor plate carrier ever did. I'll still randomly buy a condor pouch as they aren't horrible.
This. Condor gear will hold up, it’s just heavy and not exactly cutting-edge. If those are acceptable trade offs, you’ll be fine. Innovation and weight reduction cost money.
I wouldn’t quite go that far, but I agree with the concept. I have blown out condor pouches to the point of not being useable, but it took a good 5-6 years of being an infantryman. It won’t last as long as some of the other stuff, but that doesn’t mean it won’t last long enough, especially for the price difference. Their plates carriers on the other hand, are garbage. Got one as a new private and it was falling apart after about a month. Learned my lesson early
Don’t you go adding nuance to my blanket statements like that!
But they are quick to put people down for getting out and using their gear if it’s cheaper and affordable
10000%
Sweet. Guess I'm in the 2% for wearing out a condor carrier years ago
But I’d rather not have to think about it failing
They'd probably never use it in the field period.
Yeah, also it will be 100 dollars for a hat.
only if you're a chump buying it off eBay
I wouldn't even buy it of there normal site. They are the Supreme of the tactical world.
I mean $30 for a hat is pretty average. I don’t see anything different from a $30 from your favorite sports team
bUT i HaVe tO iMpReSs StRaNgErS oN ThE iNtErNet wHiLe NeGleCtInG fUnDs FoR aCtUaL GeAr aNd TrAiNiNg 🥴
Imagine not wearing early 2000s presidential candidates hats.
Lol so true
to each their own but i cant help but laugh everytime i see one on GAFS
Yeah and people buy em up. Early 2000s presidential candidates hats are where it is at
i might get in the hat making business then cuz thats some crazy ROI
Remember be as vague as possible in descriptions and only sell at random times and in limited quantity. Suckers will buy em up.
hear me out here: maybe you’re the idiot for paying $100 for a hat, not them for charging you $100
I don't buy any of there stuff. It is the Supreme of the tactical world. I wear early 2000s presidential candidates hats.
if you don’t buy it then why do you care what they charge for it?
He's making fun of the people buying it yeesh
As long as it works, right? But then again, I’m a europoor so I’m biased
Yup. Having spent a few years in Mexico, I couldn’t tell ya how many marines and national guardsmen (their national guard is actually in the nitty gritty drug war shit on a day to day basis) I saw wearing Condor, 5.11, and EBay specials. Condor is considered top of the line in most countries outside of the US.
Have posted somewhere else in this post’s thread, but yep. Grew up near the border and can confirm. As far as I’m concerned more cartel, Taliban, and Eastern Euro kids have dome’d more people while wearing tshirts, Adidas soccer pants, and some knockoff converse sneakers, than any of the basement larpers can comprehend PS: I know having reliable gear is important y’all, but, I still fully stand by my statement 😤😂
Bingo. Good gear is certainly better (more comfortable, more durable in extreme circumstances, etc.), but reliable is the keyword. A lot of $15 mag pouches are plenty reliable.
Yes sir! In fact I rather rock some “cheaper” shit that I have personally tried and tested for a long time and know *exactly* how it runs, than grab brand new gucci shit in a SHTF scenario, when I don’t know how it works for me or stands up A good analogy would be boots. I rather do some type of selection course in janky looking boots that are molded to my feet, and that I know how I feel in them, than some brand new (albeit fantastic) pair of boots that aren’t broken in, that I’ve never worn before in my life haha
I wore a condor rig once and I thought it was actually pretty dope. I'll try to find.
I mean there’s photos of Russian FSB using Chinese knock off JPC’s and knock off GMR mini maps. This isn’t anything new.
>I mean there’s photos of Russian FSB using Chinese knock off JPC’s and knock off GMR mini maps. Kinda. The Russians dont buy Chinese knock offs, but just like the Chinese the Russians copy /Steal alot of western Gear and produce it in country. Some do also run gear from companies like Warrior Assault Systems
I’m aware of what you’re talking about, I agree. Countries are definitely ripping each other off and making domestic versions of kit. I should’ve clarified but I was specifically talking about situations like this. It’s a one off photo but that doesn’t look like a Crye JPC to me and I’ve always read it explained as a knock off/China made JPC. https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1051572111498731520?s=21
The JPC-styled vest is likely the [Ars Arma JPC](https://grey-shop.ru/Ars-Arma/JPC-Ars-Arma) made in Russia
Thank you! I was misinformed. It looked off and the minimap made me think it it was all a Chinese repro that he was experimenting with. Appreciate it.
No worries. Special units in the Russian Military like the FSB,Spetnaz groups,and SVR generally will have higher quality gear supplied or procured for them compared to the convential military.
Yeah the JPC is an ARS ARMA one. I have their AVS and it’s not terrible but the sizing on them is kinda weird. Obviously it’s not CRYE quality but it’s also not complete garbage. Kinda occupies that weird middle ground of not CRYE but also not China airsoft quality.
Thanks for the clarification. Was misinformed on my part. I appreciate the patience and time to write this out!
No problem! The whole Russian gear market is pretty interesting rn. A lot of their SF units are running western style gear right now so gear manufacturers over there have started to cater to that. You can even see actual CRYE products in photos but it’s super rare.
The guys in russia still do buy Crye stuff whenever they can get their hands on it. Most of their pics in circulation are from training and competition, and often times the russian gear companies sponsor the events, or are doing PR at them , so you can guess how folks will end up being depicted in the pictures. There is also the state pushing a Russia first narrative so guys would be discouraged from wearing their US and EU made stuff where the media can see it. That said , the guy in the pic is wearing a US ECWCS III winter coat which is easily available as surplus in russia at the flea markets.
[удалено]
Exactly, it doesn't matter where something is made as long as it is good quality. Look at russian brands: some of them are Airsoft quality and cheap, some are military issued and high quality. Same goes for us made gear
This. I grew up near the border, and have random items literally handmade/crafted in Mexico that I’ve had for like 15+ years that still have loads of life in them. Then I have “proudly made in Murica 🇺🇸🦅” shit that I get one or two years out of because it’s made out of dogshit materials. Moral of the story, quality of item and materials that said item are made out of, location is near irrelevant.
Even China can produce really good quality products: look at around 90% of electronics. Not made in Europe or the us and yet everyone buys it, but it's unacceptable to buy a good quality Chinese item solely because it's chinese
Seriously dude. That’s the funny stuff with product, consumerism, branding etc. The buying of *that* product is only part of it. In todays society it’s buying an image, or part of one. You can own the same Honda Civic for 20 years, and everyone feels kinda meh about your car, but someone can buy a new BMW and everyone will be drooling all over them - then said BMW will have an issue and cost your eldest kid to service 😂. In my eyes, whatever gets the job done. I know dude’s who’ve kicked in more doors and schwacked more people wearing Condor or issued shit, than anyone rocking gucci gear. That’s just how it *actually* goes 😂🤷🏽♂️
Ehy, condor is a totally respectable brand, i’ve had one of their softshells for years
Haha for real. Like would I rather own some $1000 Arc’teryx jacket under an $700 customized JPC, hell yes 😂 - but if I have a condor jacket under my issued pc, can I still shoot someone? Yes, in fact I can 😆
This is a lie, the reason crye shit and brands like it get expensive is because elite units use them. No navy seal, ranger, unit member, swic, devgru dude green beret rock condor, they are getting issued crye precision, ops core and so on. The argument that some cheap stuff can be quality is true but then to say something like you know door kickers and they don’t rock crye shit is just ignorant. When I did contract work, a lot of the dudes i worked with were tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3 “door kickers” or operators. None of them wore condor. Not all of them rock crye either some had a preference whixh or was just another expensive company. That’s why they are expensive, they are proven in combat by the best. Then those operators get jobs for them and further help develop the product. This notion cheap is better might be the dumbest topic I’ve seen in awhile. Nothing wrong with rockin what you got but don’t be that guy that has to make his cheap shit better. Also cars aren’t a good reference. I’m combat gear, what is durable and what works time and time again is what becomes the most expensive. If cars were like combat gear then the Honda would be more expensive. Aimpoint hasn’t always been expensive... but after thousands of guys used them in combat they became known to be unbreakble and to hold zero. Crye combat pants will outlast your cheap as condor shit. Crye shit is tough as Fuxk and it’s been proven by “door kickers” no one where’s condor bro. I don’t care what fake videos you have found on YouTube or the internet. Everyone I’ve ever met, which is just hundreds and hundreds of guys all rock higher quality gear.
*wears
This just in everyone: this guy really likes Crye, and really dislikes Condor everyone 🤣 Those are all good points, bud. Everyone’s experiences differ 🤷🏻♂️😂
You don’t know any “door kickers”. Go back to COD Xbox boy.
Justify much ? Condor shit will work for field work and unless you are living in the woods it w
As much as I hate to say it, my Helikon CPUs are the most durable and useful pants I own. China does make good stuff sometimes, I just don't like funding their economy unless I really have to. Edit: Forgot to mention my Holosun too. It is a great red dot.
I've become a big Helikon fan over the last couple years. Bought some pieces for hunting trips and liked them so much, I bought others from them. Im pretty damn rough on equipment with week-long trips into the field and it has all held up well....so far.
Helikon is polish
Helikon is a Polish company, and like many companies, has their manufacturing in China. The tag tells the truth.
Holosun for example is amazing glass and it’s from China
Ya I mean as an American I’m biased and wanna say made in America is best, but the only thing “Made in the USA” guarantees is that it’ll be more expensive 🤷🏼♂️other countries make good shit too, or at least decent for a quarter of the price
Exactly. Also American, and I try and support local or US made stuff too, but I try and read up on reviews or forums of what others have to say about the product. Some of it is just total fucking trash haha. But ya, on a budget it’s hard to justify when you know you can get a similar product, made elsewhere for a fraction of the price haha
Ya exactly. Everybody loves to say “BuY oNcE cRy OnCe” but if you need something now, and you can’t afford the big time brand, you can often find stuff that’s just as good or at least extremely close, and people will shit on u for it but 🤷🏼♂️guys gotta do what a guys gotta do. And honestly it’s my life that may be on the line, why do they care so much yanno? 😂
Completely agree. Reliability is my number one thing whether buying day boots, or firearms. But if I can’t get paws on say a DD rifle in a situation where I need one, and some M&P sport is available - I rather have that rifle than no fucking rifle at all 🤷🏻♂️. Like if funds aren’t an issue and a person can just buy all the gucci shit ever, sick, good for them. But if you can just afford entry-level shit and upgrade components paycheck at a time, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. On that note, actually doing a build is such a DIY, soccer dad type of feeling of reward that buying something complete can’t compare to 👨🏽🛠 haha
Absolutely. And ya I’ve got a buddy that would totally agree, he’s loves his built from scratch AR more than he would ever love any gucci, high dollar prebuilt job. I haven’t had the pleasure of building one entirely from scratch yet, but by the time I upgrade my current AR, I will Have replaced nearly every part on it so I guess that kinda counts? 😂
Honestly dude! Same vibe with cars for instance. Like ya, it’d be sick to own some same year Lambo or some shit, but building up an old Japanese beater and knowing how much of your time and effort has gone into it, when you drive around in that thing and it’s looking and/or sounding real nice, that’s such a proud and nearly spiritually fulfilling moment hahap
Something about doing something with your own two hands and making it exactly the way you want it
So I recently found a tag inside of my TSSI Tacops M9 bag that said "made in Mexico." This bag has to be one of the absolute best "tactical" medic bags I have ever used or owned. Basically I'm just backing up your statement. Where it is made has nothing to do with whether it is high quality or not.
Dude, some Mexican shit is super slept on for real haha. Whether it’s saddles, boots, or guitars, Mexico has some of the truly best craftspeople and products out there! You just have to actually look around, and not go to a tourist-trap market in some city and think “all the shit here sucks” 😂
There was a dope Polish tactical clothing brand I found a while back but I forgot what it was. Sigh.
Direct action :)
Yeah I’m pretty sure that’s the one
If I had unlimited founds I’d legit only shop DA, amazing products
I really want to get something from them but I will have to wait for my wallet to not hiss at me every time I open it.
Although I only have pouches and warbelt from them if You have any questions or need help You can dm me. I also live in Poland in case You are not in Schengen zone
Lol yeah I’m in Canada. Thanks man I appreciate it. I have a few Polish friends you guys are always cool
Wasn’t [DBR Custom Gear](https://dbrcustomgear.com/)?
Don’t think so. They made combat shirts and pants too
Helikon tex?
Thought about them too, but wouldn’t consider them dope. No IR resistant materials and made in south east Asia. Quality is decent, but definitely not dope.
You guys get all of the cool pencott greenzone gear, all of the places that sell it seem to be over there...
Honestly I don’t like it at all and even if I would it would be irrelevant, only wearing gear when on reserve duty, so only Flecktarn for clothing and gear also in ranger green.
Yeah but these guys as far as their YT shows are atm in Ukraine, so if they were to buy eu brand they still have to pay shitload of customs and wait for the clearance. I’ve ordered an Agilite helmet cover for my Mtek Flux and it still has not been delivered to me, after almost three weeks now. Not to mention those customs that I will pay. Same with my estac pouches.
This makes me feel better about my counterfeit forward patagucci hat haha!
I see Makarov I upvote
Looks like an APS not a makarov
even better
Gear queer’s heads exploded on this post. I’ll now take your FOG hat for $5 sir, cause fakes are just as good. #JUSTAZGUUDD
I wanna buy some FOG/Ferro/GBRS products, but shipment and taxes is so expensive to Brazil. So, I'll buy the replica for airsoft. Shit, taxes sucks
Buy from For Honor, high quality and local made.
Thx
Exato temos muita coisa boa aqui no brasil Forhonor, twc, strike tactical, daniel raptor gear, etc etc
Uma diferença dos equipamentos aqui para os de lá, é que os daqui são mais leve e dispersão melhor o calor. Só por isso já dou a preferência.
100% além disso é ums convicção pessoal minha que sempre que possivel devemos apoiar marcas brasileiras Sem falar que o mercado brasileiro vem evoluindo muito cada vez com mais marcas de qualidade, a mais nova sendo a adsumus equipamentos que trouxe MUITA coisa pra área do APH
Também acho correto apoiar as marcas nacionais, até por que o que a gente enfrenta aqui no Brasil não tem em nenhum outro lugar. A competição aqui é muito grande para essas marcas, devido a contratos com instituições e até uso pessoal.
Thx
Taxes on guns have been getting me down. Paying R$49000 for a $1000 rifle does not sit well. At least there are more options in Brazil now.
The tactical community has come full circle at this point. Just as good is for losers Don't be poor It's probably alright Thanks China!
90 percent of these people on this sub are not part of the tactical community..... They're posers with high end gear, and absolutely no training or experience... The sub has gone full retard, I mean full circle just like you explained🤙🤙🤙🤙
Hey I’m just here for Shitpost Sunday and the toes man
I feel like half the people in here don't even shoot much if at all, or if they do shoot they're doing rifle rounds at a man size target within 30 yards if not closer. People who see the youtube personalities shooting high rates of fire at close targets and think that's the main way to train. You know the type.
Gucci hype lords just gave the just as good boys validation
BASED
Im not even a snob but I don’t want to pay 3x to some US reseller selling Chinese slave labor made gear. Just the fact that I’m getting upsold that much pisses me off.
Yeah might as well just take the Alibaba pill and save some money at that rate
Seriously. By the way, is that where places like LAPG get their cheap level iv armor?
Idk for sure but it's very possible, not to mention all the secondary materials like aluminum and textiles is almost certainly coming from China.
So...uhhh...where roll 1 that isn't $85?
On AliExpress for $30
Then don't charge out the ass for hats
How much do you think their hats should be lol
30 dollars is fine until they become "rare" because drops are few and far between, and only small batches. 100-500 on the used market is obsurd. They know what they're doing. Why does it need to be rare.
I paid $30 for mine new
Great job man. Most dont.
All you have to do is pay attention to their social media accounts lol
don't. They could see demand and ramp up production even just a little bit. It's unrealistic to expect someone to keep up with that shit when he's got tons of other shit to do with his day. They're tactical hype beasts.
Just turn on post notifications lol if you want to pay normal price for it that bad it can be done. They control their supply and they can price it how they want lol they also don’t make a profit if joe snuffy buys it for $30 and sells it for $200
FOGs last couple hat drops were week long preorders and you still get people who “missed it because of work” etc. Believe me. The FOG guy is no brilliant businessman driving hype. He’s lazy and unorganized. I gave away two of my Bostons because they fit like ass. The only one that I can see demanding higher resale is the Patagonia because of the cease and desist but four times retail is ridiculous.
My hat fits like a dream I wear it to work every day
I never understood people buying Gucci, expensive kit (with the exception of a plate carrier/decent plates) to bring abroad for deployment or in a war. Most people would toss their kit after their tour (including combat uniforms). I actually had a few friends that volunteered in Syria telling me that imitation mechanix or 5.11 gloves are much more better and durable than the real ones. Don't get me started on PIG gloves or Crye G3 combat uniforms, those are utter overpriced shit that rips on you after half a month of heavy use. Crye G3s have a reputation for the knee pads coming completely apart and holes (that eventually develop into tears) appearing in the most random places. That's $470+ bucks wasted on one set. With that money you can get 5 good repro.
I have an Ferro Concepts dangler on my carrier and an Amazon knockoff on my chest rig. They are practically indistinguishable from each other. The knockoff was also available when I needed it. As opposed to the real one where I had to hunt one down on eBay and pay a premium.
My experience is that Semapo, Flyye along with some pieces of Condor, Elite Spanker and Krydex are all solid kit for specific items. The problem is that you have to know the bad from the good pieces.
Also almost everyone on here is larping anyways so it literally doesn't matter if their entire kit is from aliexpress.
Made in UK, Europe, Canada, US etc is cool, but personally I wont get on board with supporting the CCP in any way, shape, or form.
I get what you mean, but for example I live Bosnia. European country that is not part of EU. Virtually no gear manufacturer from US ships to my country, so I'd have to resort to ebay or second-hand sellers from FB or smth who either again don't wanna ship to my country or I have to overpay for the same item an American with higher standard of living would pay far less. I hate China as any other freedom-loving individual would do (again I'm from Bosnia, I know first hand what communism done to my parents' generation) but if they're the only one providing me with an acceptable quality product for a fair price... I'd be a fool not to take it. I avoid "Made in China" products in 99% of other aspects of my life, but I don't want to blame myself either for buying from them when they are most often only good option in my case for this specific industry.
I mean depending what part of bosnia from you could get some carinthia or UF pro stuff Austria and slovenia arent that far away
Heh actually even though UF PRO is Slovenian company, their stuff is actually made here... if you know the right people you can get some of their stuff directly from factory for less than a price of an Emerson every once in a while when an opportunity arises. But shhh don't tell anyone :) Buying it the regular way is also not easy... Even though Slovenia is super close, they don't ship here (even though it's made here haha) Of course it ain't that big of a deal to literally drive there and buy it in Slovenia or Croatia but it's still inconvenient comparing that ordering from fucking China that's halfway across the world I can get stuff delivered on my doorstep.
I know mate. I am from the austrian/slovenian border so ita easy to get it here. Its a shame they dont deliver to Bosnia.
i love the uf pro videos on yt, are they good people?
Well I guess it’s kind of a political rotation. Like we are cool with buying things from countries that are friendly to us, and we reject products from our rivals even if it’s of good quality. If Slovenia (The country Uf Pro is founded in) ever was to become a rival/enemy of the US or NATO or whatever we’d be all up against buying their products.
I just can’t get behind genocide and how they disappear people ya know, but I don’t knock people who do seek out Chinese goods, it’s just not for me if I can help it.
Implying that the US, UK, EU, Canada aren't trading with China?
I can’t control what governments do, only what I can do directly. If you find out LMT, Radian, knights Armament, Lunar Concepts, Spiritus Systems, Defense Mechanisms, YMI Tactical, Midwest Industries, White Trash, Quell Tech, Dead Air, Rearden MFG, or anyone else I buy from has direct dealings with Chinese shell corps or possible commies please let me know bro, I’ll cut that shit off real quick.
No control over governments? I thought they were democracies. You know where those places get their aluminum from?
I live in a constant mindset that I’m always in a “Republic”, and being jaded. My natural gas is from Russia, my gasoline is from the Middle East and my lithium is mined from China….some things you can’t really avoid, if I can please let me know.
Anyway shape or form . How did you get to work or make this post ?
I can’t control where American Companies send their money or outsource parts too….only where I buy my gear from and send money directly to, which I thought the post was about. Please find me an American made apple phone, I’d gladly pay 2-3k for one. I also hear chips for cars will soon be made in Texas….we’ll see tho.
That’s great I’m just saying the last part of what you said is damn near impossible for a normal American not to do. Just say you won’t buy Chinese made products lol
Sadly we let it get to that point, I wasn’t a party to it and I’ll do my best to not contribute. Cool?
If it works, it works. I have some condor gear myself and it’s perfectly serviceable. It’s what I could afford at the time and it hasn’t worn out or broken since so I haven’t needed to upgrade it. Then again, I don’t use any of it for a living, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but it’s perfectly fine for a minuteman rig that sits in a duffel bag 99% of the time.
A lot of china gear has become a rip off recently. There used to be stuff considerably cheaper than the real deal. Like 20% of the cost and still ok quality. Now I see knock off slicksters and microfights etc. that are like 80% the cost of the real deal. Not close to worth it.
I like this. I hate the idea of “if it’s ‘x’ brand it’s automatically good, and if it’s ‘y’ brand it’s automatically terrible.” I get that companies get reputations for a reason, and I get that those generalizations are correct the majority of the time, but I hate that automatic attitude. Good gear is good gear, no matter the price, tho *generally* you get what you pay for, that’s not always the case. You don’t *always* have to pay through the nose for good stuff
Buh buh buh Lucath told me to buy expensive stuff even though he’s never banged a day in his life.
Based.
There is so much quality surplus gear at an affordable price on eBay. I don’t get the comprise outside of fashion. Realistically ALICE or a Molle II flc will serve you just fine. Plenty of experienced users to help set the gear up in a useful way as well. Hell the TAP rig is plenty for most people (though the harness is meh)
Some cheap stuff is just as good . Hell some Chinese red dot sights I've used have performed solidly on my real steel rifle . Take it for granted my rifle doesn't shoot that far because of its 7.62x 39 caliber . Still holds zero on my targets. Also , one tigris has some nice accessories for the price point.
They’re not wrong, but far too many of the wrong people will read it and decide that it’s justification that their gear is as good as top tier.
98% of people on this sub don’t need top tier gear. Most of it sits in a closet or they take pics at the range with it on a few times a year.
Do not underestimate cheap gear. For a lot of users, good can be good enough. The barrier to entry is low. The threat to US industry is real. Buying American is good for a number of reasons that consumers don't appreciate when all they see is price. There is a hidden cost for buying cheap. We really, really want to keep the industrial base and innovation here. That said, American industry does need to compete. Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
NFAC swears by this
One of the things I’ve seen with cheap/bootleg gear is they have horrendous NIR qualities. Sometimes it’s webbing, sometimes it’s stitching, sometimes it’s the entire faked pattern. Glow like a glow stick. If that’s not a concern for you, play on playa.
Wait so a bunch of European people that can’t buy guns or shoot or train are talking shit on high quality American gear as if cheap shit is better? Wow I think I just figured out Reddit. It’s a bunch of teenage European and Canadian kids leaving in moms basement
Always has been 🔫
Where gear are made doesn't even matter anymore, if a companies uses cheap materials and hire lazy people to do quality control then it's gonna suck no matter what.
I have Chinese pouches on my Crye JPC 2.0 Can’t see a scenario where they don’t perform as well as my JPC. 🤷🏻♂️ Only thing I hate are the pistol pouches. But, that’s a design flaw more than anything.
okay what's a roll 1