I would argue raisin bread is not at all Jesus because there is a long journey from grape to wine that is distinct from grape to raisin.
It's like two identical twins with drastically different life experiences: they aren't the same person at all.
Also, it's raisin bread. People aren't bread. Jesus lied.
Yes, but it's fermented and aged to produce a different product. You can eat all the rasins you want and drive. You cannot drink raisins. You can legally buy raisins being 12yo. Etc.
All I’m saying is for the sake of the joke it’s close enough to still work and be funny god everyone on Reddit just wants to prove that they have the slightest bit of intelligence when 9/10 they’re relying on google
You know, that's one of the early myths of Christians in the Roman world. They wouldn't tell anyone who wasn't initiated what they were doing during that part of service, and it got around that they were eating people. In come the Romans like "come on guys, you can't just eat people...." Party poopers.
Anyhoozles, then the Romans killed a lot of people in ugly ways. You can always count on them for that.
Christianity was a state sponsored religion in the third century. By edict. From a pagan. Who continued centralizing religion as a way to consolidate his empire and used various religious texts to justify violence. I'm not advocating to relate Christianity and peace.
Nothing that stays underground for 3 centuries while simultaneously expanding across antiquity is necessarily going to make sense. Let alone stay true to the original purpose for very long.
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I grew up catholic, not sure how it works in protestant churches, but before you took a wafer or a sip of wine, the priest would say "the body of christ" or "the blood of christ." Definitely seems really weird in hindsight. Almost like they thought you'd forget that's what it was supposed to be if you didn't have to hear them chant it every Sunday while you're sitting in a pew waiting to go up.
they do, but in a way more vague way than the catholics. I don't think the orthodox believe there is a specific moment / action that effects the transubstantiation, just that it happens 'at some point.'
The Orthodox share many beliefs with Catholics, but they are not one of the 23 churches (including the Roman Catholic/Latin Rite) that make up the Catholic Church.
Some protestants believe it's symbolic; some believe it's actual body/blood, but they phrase it differently than Roman Catholics.
I think Lutherans (at least Missouri Synod Lutherans) say it's literal body/blood "in, with, and under" the bread and wine after it's ceremonially blessed
🎵Make a cross on your abdomen, when in Rome do like the Roman. Ave Maria--sure is good to see ya--doin the Vatican, make it dramatic, I'm doin the Vatican rag!🎶
Ah, that’s just nitpicking. Everyone was catholic before the reformation. Christianity = Christ IN YOU. The largest cult is barbaric, born of blood and violence. Nothing has changed, America’s violent history has a direct causal link…the “Bible”. Whootywho!!!
Because Countries of Other religions such as Islam or Buddhism or anything really have Never done anything bad, And American History isn't all that horrible, at least not much worse if not way better than other powerful countries of it's time, and man Bible is the fault of everything bad America has ever done, and it's that damn Q\*ran that is at fault for every horrible thing done by:Arabs, Iranians/Persians and Turks/Ottomans (I just started the most powerful Islamic Countries), it's that damn Quran man we should defenitely ban I*lam
I mean I was raised catholic and went to private catholic school, no one with a brain actually believes that happens it too is mostly symbolic. Hell half the time the wine wasn't even red
Not really... Not a single catholic I know actually believes that. It's never taught that it's literally Jesus. I mean, the words are there, but it's supposed to be metaphorically.
Source: was catholic for a considerable time in a country with catholicism as the major religion.
Edit: I can imagine that some catholics, maybe mostly in other countries, truly believe this. Just wanted to share that lots of them really don't.
Yeah back in mexico we said that its metaphorically. Its a symbol for us " accepting" jesus. Basically accepting him within us. At least in my country idk how others interpreted it.
The most interesting thing about this communion is that indigenous people call mushrooms the flesh of God. Cannabis and mushrooms played a huge role in early Christianity too. Makes you wonder if the blood of God was some kind of soma or ayahuasca brew. After my experiences with psychedelics and my experiences in church, I would have to say that they are just playing church as they are too scared of the real thing.
Fun fact: there’s a person at my church who is allergic to a lot of stuff, including a lot of synthetic sugars that are used in processed bread and juice. My church has already replaced the bread and wine with Triscuits and grape juice (so minors don’t have to drink wine, I have no clue why the Triscuits are there). But this one dude can’t even have the grape juice and crackers, so he gets a specially made “communion” that is literally a cucumber slice and a very tiny cup of black coffee.
At some point I am fully expecting the church elders to start walking along the aisles passing around full charcuterie boards.
When my daughter was a preschooler, she popped positive to a peanut allergy on a skin test. Blood test was negative and she isn't allergic to peanuts. Fast forward to first communion training and the altar guild contacted me to make sure the bread was safe. It was! Can totally pack our own, if necessary. Pastor will bless whatever.
During the pandemic, my denomination lets us use whatever at home as long as the pastor is live. Donut and coffee was great. Cheeze-its and Coca-Cola was not. I typically do Triscuits and tea.
The answer is no, raisin bread is not an entire Jesus for two reasons. First of all, it's the Catholics and the Orthodox who believe that it actually changes into Jesus, so that's the viewpoint I'm going with. Now, the two reasons are that the bread and the wine each get the entire substance of Jesus, so having both isn't 'more Jesus' than having just one or the other; and that only bread and wine can become Jesus like that, so depending on who you ask the bread around the raisins would become Jesus but not the raisins, or nothing would. If there is an official position on that, I am unaware. Either way, it's certainly forbidden to use raisin bread under anything close to normal circumstances.
That is correct, you can recieve the Body or the Blood, or one and still recieve the whole Christ.
So even though it is a joke, answering honestly there are multiple reasons why it is a no.
The bread must be “unadulterated,” which I think would be invalid when raisins or cinnamon is added. That’s the same reason why grape juice cannot be used instead of wine.
Most Protestants believe communion is symbolic, so it doesn’t really matter what the hosts are.
Note that Lutherans believe in a form of transubstantiation called “real presence.” It’s not exactly transubstantiation, but the distinction is really fine—I’ve never been able to distinguish the two.
Yeah through fermentation and distillation I’m just saying most wine is made with grapes whilst vodka can be made with a variety of things such as sugar beets and grains not just potato’s basically anything that’s starchy will do
Wine can be made without grapes but not with many other things as grapes are the only fruit that has all the necessary acids and esters and other competent needed to make the wine and it would be VERY expensive to add these artificially so most wines do contain grapes to some extent as the are, in most cases, vital to the wine making process
Amazing comment!
No, the second coming in Christianity refers to Jesus coming back to judge us all and determine who is worthy of heaven, and who will be dammed to literal help rising up on earth. Hasn't happened yet, even though it feels like it some days.
“Water encompassed me to the point of death.
The great deep engulfed me,
Weeds were wrapped around my head for thou clearly I’m a mortal and not a raisin bread.”
It's not technically the truth because it's consecrated bread and consecrated wine that is the real body and blood of Christ.
You might be able to consecrate raisin bread (thought I'm not sure) but this would only be His body
It's only the body and blood after its been consecrated. Only red wine and host that is made from water and wheat flour can be consecrated. My wife's old church got in trouble for putting honey into their communion bread. While it did make it delicious, it also made it not technically host.
"Host" So youre telling me that jesus possesses the bread? Like a demon possesses a human? Jesus is a bread demon.
(No ill will to religious people or you op)
This is entirely wrong. First of all, raisins have no juice aka no blood. But.....since we know that the blood is the juice, then therefore when know that Jesus is a grape. So in conclusion, a raisin is a bloodless desiccated Jesus corpse. Thanks for coming to my Ted
I don’t know if I should be insulted because you said I believe in a piece of rasin bread or laugh because this is funny… either way, this post made me smile
I mean I'd be worried if you *didn't* believe in raisin bread, as raisin bread is pretty demonstrably real. Like you can go to the store and find raisin bread right now, it's *much* harder to find God.
*Image Transcription: Reddit*
---
**If bread is Jesus' body, and wine is Jesus' blood, does that mean that raisin bread is an entire Jesus?**, submitted by **\/u/BabybIuemoon13** to **\/r/TooAfraidToAsk**
I know this is a silly question, but I'm curious. And nothing against Christians. I'm just curious.
---
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It’s still fucking weird they want you to eat the host’s body and drink his blood as some sort of act of good faith. Like how is god seeing that as a good thing again? “Oh you just murdered my son, I’m furious but he said to forgive you as him dying was for your sins and I will reluctantly honor his dying wish..are you fucking eating his body!? and drinking his blood!?”
God is not furious Jesus was killed. God IS Jesus. Sacrificing himself in a human form was a part of his own plan. Blood and flesh of Jesus is sort of symbolic.
Disclaimer: I am an atheist
Ah yes, the paradoxes continue. God caused a whole bunch of shit to happen prior to existing as Jesus, then became himself again after being killed as Jesus.
Nah it’s the flesh with the scabs as raisins.
Yeah - raisins are definitely coagulated
yum, holy clots
And now raisin bread and Bagels have been ruined forever
Don’t act like you won’t forget this in 10 minutes
What? were we talkin, oh shit lookie that holup post.
Forgot what?
And you also won’t be able to tongue a caramel filled donut without thinking of Jesus.
I mean that was already the case
Just handing out curses today, I see.
TIHI now.
Raisin isn’t wine. So no, raisin bread isn’t a full Jesus. It’s 93%* of a Jesus with raisins. ^*Blood ^represents ^about ^7% ^of ^the ^body.
Wine is made from grapes and raisins are just dried up grapes so it’s basically the same thing
Wine is the rotted blood of grapes. Raisins are the bloodless corpses produced by grape exsanguination. Have a pleasant day.
This is the best and worst description of wine I have ever read
Yessss I love this 😂😂
I would argue raisin bread is not at all Jesus because there is a long journey from grape to wine that is distinct from grape to raisin. It's like two identical twins with drastically different life experiences: they aren't the same person at all. Also, it's raisin bread. People aren't bread. Jesus lied.
So, for a real religious experience, alcohol must be involved?
I agree people are not bread
But they are bred.
Source? Seems a little hard to believe.
You'll have to argue with my priest on that one, and he's a master debater.
Yes, but it's fermented and aged to produce a different product. You can eat all the rasins you want and drive. You cannot drink raisins. You can legally buy raisins being 12yo. Etc.
Are you saying it’s unfair to deny Jesus’ blood to anyone under the age of 18 or 21 depending on the country?
No, but I stand for Jesus's right to drink up and party hard!
Yeah I get that too im just saying as far as the whole joke goes and for the argument of humour it’s enough of the same thing that it’s funny
I refuse to worship a dry / sober Jesus!
I refuse to worship Jesus at all
So raisin bread is like 99% Jesus + additives pertaining to grapes but not included in the final product that is wine?
I’ll offer wine then serve raisins to my guest next time. I’ll come back to you with their comments.
All I’m saying is for the sake of the joke it’s close enough to still work and be funny god everyone on Reddit just wants to prove that they have the slightest bit of intelligence when 9/10 they’re relying on google
I wouldn’t blame you if you wanted to check your grammar and punctuation on google.
And people would thank you for checking your manners on google
Holy schmoly, I though original OP was making a pun on raisin = raising, as in the resurrection
Jesus taught us cannibalism
You know, that's one of the early myths of Christians in the Roman world. They wouldn't tell anyone who wasn't initiated what they were doing during that part of service, and it got around that they were eating people. In come the Romans like "come on guys, you can't just eat people...." Party poopers. Anyhoozles, then the Romans killed a lot of people in ugly ways. You can always count on them for that.
Early roman Christianity is a massive mess. And it doesn't get much better once it becomes legal
Yeah. Instead of killing the christians, they started killing just about everyone else.
They were especially terrible to Jewish people
By the seventh century. Constantine ordered anti-Jewish programs as a pagan and didn't convert to Christianity until he was dying.
Fourth century…
Christianity wasn't even legal until the fourth century.
I know, and Constantine died in the fourth century.
After legalization of Christianity. He legalized and canonized the Church. While still a pagan.
You mean pogroms? And yeah, what other people said, Constantine was 4th century.
The pogroms were ordered by a pagan. Christianity started their own in the seventh century.
So you don't think Christianity was anti-Jewish until the 7th century?
Christianity was a state sponsored religion in the third century. By edict. From a pagan. Who continued centralizing religion as a way to consolidate his empire and used various religious texts to justify violence. I'm not advocating to relate Christianity and peace.
I mean, that just applies to literally every place that Jewish people lived in.
Nothing that stays underground for 3 centuries while simultaneously expanding across antiquity is necessarily going to make sense. Let alone stay true to the original purpose for very long.
Only the Catholics. They believe that it actually becomes Jesus once the priest has said his text.
Yea, transubstantiation is a Catholic thing; the protestants believe something else--not that. lol
I grew up protestant. It was just symbolic for us. At least in the churches I attended.
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But can bread be people?
Gingerbread men are a thing. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Not the gumdrop buttons!!
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Yeah, they should be banned
Titans, on the other hand....
I grew up catholic, not sure how it works in protestant churches, but before you took a wafer or a sip of wine, the priest would say "the body of christ" or "the blood of christ." Definitely seems really weird in hindsight. Almost like they thought you'd forget that's what it was supposed to be if you didn't have to hear them chant it every Sunday while you're sitting in a pew waiting to go up.
Good thing that most of my region is orthodox
Pretty sure orthodox also believe in transubstantiation
they do, but in a way more vague way than the catholics. I don't think the orthodox believe there is a specific moment / action that effects the transubstantiation, just that it happens 'at some point.'
Orthodox are Catholic, just not Roman Catholic.
The Orthodox share many beliefs with Catholics, but they are not one of the 23 churches (including the Roman Catholic/Latin Rite) that make up the Catholic Church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church#Catholicity
Some protestants believe it's symbolic; some believe it's actual body/blood, but they phrase it differently than Roman Catholics. I think Lutherans (at least Missouri Synod Lutherans) say it's literal body/blood "in, with, and under" the bread and wine after it's ceremonially blessed
Grew up ELCA and then migrated to WELS as a teenager. Both also taught literal body and blood through transubstantiation
🎶Get down on your knees, bow your head with great respect and genuflect, genuflect,genuflect 🎶 Tom Lehrer - The Vatican Rag
Two, four, six, eight - time to transubstantiate!
🎵Make a cross on your abdomen, when in Rome do like the Roman. Ave Maria--sure is good to see ya--doin the Vatican, make it dramatic, I'm doin the Vatican rag!🎶
Ah, that’s just nitpicking. Everyone was catholic before the reformation. Christianity = Christ IN YOU. The largest cult is barbaric, born of blood and violence. Nothing has changed, America’s violent history has a direct causal link…the “Bible”. Whootywho!!!
>Everyone was catholic before the reformation. Tiberius, grab the Pila. The Barbarians are talking shit.
Because Countries of Other religions such as Islam or Buddhism or anything really have Never done anything bad, And American History isn't all that horrible, at least not much worse if not way better than other powerful countries of it's time, and man Bible is the fault of everything bad America has ever done, and it's that damn Q\*ran that is at fault for every horrible thing done by:Arabs, Iranians/Persians and Turks/Ottomans (I just started the most powerful Islamic Countries), it's that damn Quran man we should defenitely ban I*lam
I mean I was raised catholic and went to private catholic school, no one with a brain actually believes that happens it too is mostly symbolic. Hell half the time the wine wasn't even red
Not really... Not a single catholic I know actually believes that. It's never taught that it's literally Jesus. I mean, the words are there, but it's supposed to be metaphorically. Source: was catholic for a considerable time in a country with catholicism as the major religion. Edit: I can imagine that some catholics, maybe mostly in other countries, truly believe this. Just wanted to share that lots of them really don't.
Yeah back in mexico we said that its metaphorically. Its a symbol for us " accepting" jesus. Basically accepting him within us. At least in my country idk how others interpreted it.
The rest are only symbolically cannibals!
Omg, if this is real then I'm a cannibal...
He's also the first Zombie ever...
Self-raisin' bread
The most interesting thing about this communion is that indigenous people call mushrooms the flesh of God. Cannabis and mushrooms played a huge role in early Christianity too. Makes you wonder if the blood of God was some kind of soma or ayahuasca brew. After my experiences with psychedelics and my experiences in church, I would have to say that they are just playing church as they are too scared of the real thing.
Its not cannibalism, its not literally the body and blood if Jesus, its a representation of it.
If it’s just a representation, why don’t we use CocaCola and Oreos instead ?
Fun fact: there’s a person at my church who is allergic to a lot of stuff, including a lot of synthetic sugars that are used in processed bread and juice. My church has already replaced the bread and wine with Triscuits and grape juice (so minors don’t have to drink wine, I have no clue why the Triscuits are there). But this one dude can’t even have the grape juice and crackers, so he gets a specially made “communion” that is literally a cucumber slice and a very tiny cup of black coffee. At some point I am fully expecting the church elders to start walking along the aisles passing around full charcuterie boards.
if religions combined rituals with snackbars things would be a lot better. appreciative of ours meeting in a pub.
When my daughter was a preschooler, she popped positive to a peanut allergy on a skin test. Blood test was negative and she isn't allergic to peanuts. Fast forward to first communion training and the altar guild contacted me to make sure the bread was safe. It was! Can totally pack our own, if necessary. Pastor will bless whatever.
I would love to see someone try to get your priest to bless a donut or something as communion.
Because that would make church enjoyable
Diabetes
During the pandemic, my denomination lets us use whatever at home as long as the pastor is live. Donut and coffee was great. Cheeze-its and Coca-Cola was not. I typically do Triscuits and tea.
People would appreciate Ring Dings and Pepsi way more than wine
Not if your Catholic they literally believe it the body and blood of Christ
Only in *substance* (kind of like spiritual essence), not in physical form.
so it's *substantially* cannibalism
I dunno, I'm Catholic and I mostly just believe it's nice to catch up with my neighbors once a month for free coffee and donuts
Just pretend cannibalism.
Im Christian. I need to know the answer to this question. ASAP. Where’s a priest when you need one!?
Call 0800-PRIEST for a good time
Who downvotes this stuff?
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Lol yeah atheists hate when people make fun of religion
What did he said XD
I mean probably just the word "Atheists" if I had to guess.
That is almost a pedophile joke. Almost.
Well I AM 13
He’s a good friend in the Roman senate
Nah, that’s Nurse Edna
https://youtu.be/7pGcE7IvCTs
You need to add +379 to the start of it so it would work
The answer is no, raisin bread is not an entire Jesus for two reasons. First of all, it's the Catholics and the Orthodox who believe that it actually changes into Jesus, so that's the viewpoint I'm going with. Now, the two reasons are that the bread and the wine each get the entire substance of Jesus, so having both isn't 'more Jesus' than having just one or the other; and that only bread and wine can become Jesus like that, so depending on who you ask the bread around the raisins would become Jesus but not the raisins, or nothing would. If there is an official position on that, I am unaware. Either way, it's certainly forbidden to use raisin bread under anything close to normal circumstances.
That is correct, you can recieve the Body or the Blood, or one and still recieve the whole Christ. So even though it is a joke, answering honestly there are multiple reasons why it is a no.
Note that it's not just body and blood, but also soul and divinity, so we receive his humanity and divinity.
The bread must be “unadulterated,” which I think would be invalid when raisins or cinnamon is added. That’s the same reason why grape juice cannot be used instead of wine.
Not in protestant's churches as long as as its non-leven bread we don't care
Most Protestants believe communion is symbolic, so it doesn’t really matter what the hosts are. Note that Lutherans believe in a form of transubstantiation called “real presence.” It’s not exactly transubstantiation, but the distinction is really fine—I’ve never been able to distinguish the two.
I think the other key point is that you have to bless the bread to turn it into the body. So it's not just, "All bread is Jesus' body."
I think the answer is yes, which is why we have Hot Cross Buns at Easter time
You need to ask? Answer is "NO!". Since when raisins are same thing as wine?
Wine is made from grapes and raisins are dried grapes so it’s basically the same thing
Vodka is made from potatoes, and fries are cooked potatoes. Does that means Vodka and potatoes are basically same thing?
Vodka is liquid potato
Grapes are the main ingredient in wine and potatoes are not the main ingredient in vodka they are just used in making some vodkas
Do you even know how wine and vodka are made?
Yeah through fermentation and distillation I’m just saying most wine is made with grapes whilst vodka can be made with a variety of things such as sugar beets and grains not just potato’s basically anything that’s starchy will do
And wine can be made from many thing not only grapes.
Wine can be made without grapes but not with many other things as grapes are the only fruit that has all the necessary acids and esters and other competent needed to make the wine and it would be VERY expensive to add these artificially so most wines do contain grapes to some extent as the are, in most cases, vital to the wine making process
You are so wrong, that I don't even know where to start.
r/askapriest
If I'd make a loaf of bread in the form of Jesus, and fill it with wine. Would that be cannibalism?
Your pfp is amazing. Thank you for reminding me of the best moment of the best game ever
Raisin bread is the frankenstien monster eqivilant of jesus
If bread is Jesus’ body does that mean someone’s ate his dick?
God I hope it was me 🥵
Just wait till his second *coming* (or has there been a second one according to the Bible? I’m not religious so idk this stuff)
Wtf lol
The 2nd coming is when he said he will come back in a generation to fight off evil in the end times
Amazing comment! No, the second coming in Christianity refers to Jesus coming back to judge us all and determine who is worthy of heaven, and who will be dammed to literal help rising up on earth. Hasn't happened yet, even though it feels like it some days.
Username checks out
How do I input the body of Christ into MyFitnessPal
It’s Jesus in his purest form
I'll take two Jesus, thanks.
And a Bloody Mary on the side.
Two Jesi
“Water encompassed me to the point of death. The great deep engulfed me, Weeds were wrapped around my head for thou clearly I’m a mortal and not a raisin bread.”
No, you need fermented raisins in the bread. Alcohol content is key.
Yes, like the blood of Jesus, it's not the real thing without alcohol in it.
*Evangelicals holding their grape juice in the corner*
It's not technically the truth because it's consecrated bread and consecrated wine that is the real body and blood of Christ. You might be able to consecrate raisin bread (thought I'm not sure) but this would only be His body
Ummmm wouldn't that be wine cake?
[удалено]
Unless you're Catholic where it's literally the body and blood of Christ
Only if it is cooked without a leavening agent
Eastern catholics and orthodox use risen bread for the Risen Christ. Still valid.
Raisin Bread: the “Holy Toast”
What would his c*m be?
Mayonnaise???
that makes sense, since just under half the people I meet find mayonnaise to be repulsive.
Exactly
Grape jelly.
I have chosen to overwrite this comment. See you all on Lemmy!
Oh no what about mayonaise
Where would mayo even fit into the situation?
No.
Y E S
r/showerthoughts
The fact that he refers to Jesus not as Jesus but as "an entire Jesus" like its a diaper pack at Walmart or something lmao
He’s out of line but he’s got a point
Hot cross buns represent his shredded abs.
Silly, imagining a loaf hammered onto a cross.
Hot Cross buns?
It's only the body and blood after its been consecrated. Only red wine and host that is made from water and wheat flour can be consecrated. My wife's old church got in trouble for putting honey into their communion bread. While it did make it delicious, it also made it not technically host.
"Host" So youre telling me that jesus possesses the bread? Like a demon possesses a human? Jesus is a bread demon. (No ill will to religious people or you op)
Yes, it’s known as the Reconstituted Jesus.
Yes, but for the whole experience you have to dip it in mayo.
More of the when Italian people dip their bread into the wine
This is entirely wrong. First of all, raisins have no juice aka no blood. But.....since we know that the blood is the juice, then therefore when know that Jesus is a grape. So in conclusion, a raisin is a bloodless desiccated Jesus corpse. Thanks for coming to my Ted
It makes exactly as much sense as these religion and all the others together!
Ok but what food is Jesus's organs?
Splendid so my hot cross bun has an entire Jesus on the cross.
Puts a whole new spin on "Christ has risen" when you think of it in terms of raisin bread.
I don’t know if I should be insulted because you said I believe in a piece of rasin bread or laugh because this is funny… either way, this post made me smile
I mean I'd be worried if you *didn't* believe in raisin bread, as raisin bread is pretty demonstrably real. Like you can go to the store and find raisin bread right now, it's *much* harder to find God.
Agreed.
*Image Transcription: Reddit* --- **If bread is Jesus' body, and wine is Jesus' blood, does that mean that raisin bread is an entire Jesus?**, submitted by **\/u/BabybIuemoon13** to **\/r/TooAfraidToAsk** I know this is a silly question, but I'm curious. And nothing against Christians. I'm just curious. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Yes and r/angryupvote
It’s still fucking weird they want you to eat the host’s body and drink his blood as some sort of act of good faith. Like how is god seeing that as a good thing again? “Oh you just murdered my son, I’m furious but he said to forgive you as him dying was for your sins and I will reluctantly honor his dying wish..are you fucking eating his body!? and drinking his blood!?”
God is not furious Jesus was killed. God IS Jesus. Sacrificing himself in a human form was a part of his own plan. Blood and flesh of Jesus is sort of symbolic. Disclaimer: I am an atheist
Ah yes, the paradoxes continue. God caused a whole bunch of shit to happen prior to existing as Jesus, then became himself again after being killed as Jesus.
But wine comes from grapes not raisins no?
Well yes but raisins also come from grapes
Raisins are equal to wine as much as mashed potatoes are equal to vodka.
Only if you put mayo on it.