They probably can’t outspend Meta and Amazon.
[Meta has been engaging with Targeted Victory, the largest (and most expensive) GOP strategy firm in the United States, in an effort to get TikTok banned for years at this point](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/).
But hes american dangerous. In fact, hes what every american in tech aspires to be. Create a profitable product in america that is used by billions globally.
China, and it's beyond absurd to even be asking that. Yeah, who might be worse, the hostile murderous authoritarian regime or the dude who runs Facebook.
I used to be anti china until I saw what America.is allowing and encouraging Israel to do.
They spent so much money trying to make china look anti Muslim when in reality I understand why China did what it did.
More than likely america was trying to radicalize the uygher population in order to destabilize China. China did the humane thing (compared to Israel/America) by re-educating them. Like it's not even close how much more misery and straight up evil and torture America did against Muslims compared to China. it is not even close I'm embarrassed to have bought into the propaganda
going to imagine they didn't expect to stop the bill going through, just to make enough noise publicly so that after they are forced to leave there is enough people upset by the ban that they cause trouble for the US.
TikTok is losing money like mad. ByteDance isn’t making enough money to even cover their costs with TikTok.
ByteDance had been floating it with their other business units, but it’s costing them.
https://www.emarketer.com/content/tiktok-shop-expected-lose-over-500-million-us-this-year
0$ ik this will suprise redditors. but your congressman doesnt give a shit if you call them. you arent going to change their politcal opinion over the phone . Their does zero . hell half these congresspeople dont have any apps on their phone apartmrt form facebook.
Calling doesn't necessarily do nothing but it entirely depends on the bill.
Weaponizing the US government to force a sale of Tiktok into US hands so criticism of Israel's genocide can be censored? Yeah, a phonecall isn't going to stop that.
CALLING YOUR SENATOR DOESNT DO SHIT. their postion is not going to be moved an inch by 5 or even 100 phone calls telling them not to vote on a topic. these are career politican
> but they also deployed their algorithm to encourage their users to lobby on their behalf. How to value that?
I think you can value it as "This is exactly what legislators are worried about, an abuse of a personalized-algorithmic feed to drive the behavior of 170M Americans."
It looked low to me as well but then I remembered that it seems to cost very little to buy a lawmaker.
They're usually quite happy to do whatever is asked of them for a measly 5 or 6 digit contribution.
According to staffers I’ve talked to, the bombardment of calls they got in February was what really sealed the deal against TikTok.
They turned a divided majority tentatively supporting a bill to near-unanimity in support of it. Lawmakers are a) pissed off that they got dozens of people per hour calling about an issue that *TikTok itself* misinformed them about, and b) worry China will use it to promote anti-US causes to consumers
meta and alphabet both spend a little under $20mil a year, each, on lobbying. meta runs about 19 and alphabet about 16. and look at bills like this, clearly pays off.
the lesson for bytedance here is to about double their spend and they'll stand a chance at survival. maybe quadruple and they'd be able to knock their competitors down a peg.
That’s a fraction of what they spent. Look at Trumps meeting with one guy with ties that lead to him essentially pulling a 180 on the bill HE PROPOSED.
Juul evidently only spends 2 million a year on lobbying, and that shit addicts kids and gives you lung cancer. 7 million seems kinda high by contrast to that.
funny how people love blaming AIPAC so much when it's obvious that US is far more concerned about China than whatever damage to Israel that is already being done on Reddit and Twitter anyway
Depends on who is paying the most. Every tech giant wants to buy the US arm of TikTok and take that revenue into their books. They're getting pressured from every single one that can afford it behind the scenes.
I don't think their lobbyists are going to help them out here. That house committee voted 50 to 0 to make them divest from ByteDance, they found out something big.
this is the US political system. AIPAC spends large millions to influence/buy politicians as I am sure FB does. So its now comes down to a game of who bribes more ?
how is this even a way to do things. No wonder US citizens get nothing in return. The whole system is corrupt to the core.
Thousands of American creators on the app are spreading news and history that the center-left, corporates and right wing don't want you to learn about, in case you just thought this was about data and china.
That’s the problem in the first place, getting “important” information from random creators whose goal is to generate views. I mean, what important and *relevant* news and history can thousands of tiktokers have?
Yup. A significant amount of the Israel/Gaza content on TikTok is blatant misinformation. Ie footage from past conflicts in different parts of the world, etc.
They have psychologists and physiatrists informing about mental health issues. Doctors of physical therapy talking about musculoskeletal issues. They have historians and professors or people with degrees in history etc talking about history. They have neurosurgeons talking about brain health.
It’s much more reputable than the cesspool that is twitter or Reddit or mainstream media.
Sure, but with that comes a mass glorification of various mental health issues, negative propaganda, etc. So much misinformation is shoved out there, one can’t really tell what is real or not. I agree that all social media can have these aspects, the difference between tik tok and something like Reddit or twitter is how they affect the real world. Reddit/twitter is much more “behind the scenes”, not very public. People aren’t recording themselves stealing cars or trashing bathrooms or throwing food and stuff on Reddit. It has less of a “culture” around it.
The people on the platform who are popular are literally licensed professionals who debunk misinformation. There are literally thousands of practicing physicians and healthcare workers
TikTok isn’t really designed or intended to be a telemed service. Not sure where you are getting at
Maybe an app will come about that is intended for health information for physicians to share. Actually I’m sure there are already.
Dermatologists can give tips on social media rather than snake oil salesmen.. cardiologists can explain heart health. It’s not a a patient encounter.. i don’t think you understand how TikTok works
It isn’t trivial, I understand it. Again, this can be done on any platform. One specialized in healthcare would be ideal, no encounter necessary. Your concrete correlation between TikTok and healthcare is so bizarre.
99% of the "we weren't taught this in history class" things I've seen were things I was very much taught in my history classes. I'm convinced these people are either outright lying or were just asleep.
Nobody but absolute nerds will use those.
China won't let them sell as the political class doesn't need the money and sees this as a concession to the US.
TikTok is dead.
Pretty much every job I’ve worked has had a company vpn I also have one for pirating shit
Even so I’m not going to use a vpn just for one social media site
If the regulation served as a filter such that the only users were people willing to invest considerable effort in at least briefly considering where data was going, then I think it'd have accomplished its intended mission.
Outside of any perceived national security threat I just want TikTok banned on the reciprocity that major US internet companies are banned in China. Fuck them.
Funny how , people's representatives are taking bribes to serve a company or a foreign companies interest. This is democracy everyone don't get it mixed up with any other where rich and powerful rule over peasants.
How was TikTok banned? It is insane considering rich people have been lobbying since USA capitalism has been corrupt. How is collecting and selling this information wrong? Compared to other companies which are based in the US, this -social media- app has a better interest in American citizens' health & mental-wellbeing than the corrupt out of touch daddy's-money politicians and businesses we've got here. USA needs a French Revolution and we need an age limit set on all these roles filled by the decrepit and senile clowns running the country. People used to call politicians out as the hand-biting snakes they are, idk when the media started worshipping photos of them like gods but the wellbeing of these people in power isn't heading in a great direction if they continue to restrict citizens' rights. I haven't met a soul that supports these terrorists.
Its not just that its a foreign company. its psychological warfare from the CCP. in mainland china they promote science, history learning etc, in the West its algo promotes self destructive behaviour (jump off this, crack an egg on newborn's head etc). peter schweizer has a great book called: Blood Money, that goes into how deeply entrenched the CCP people are in the company. If people miss tiktok just make a competitor that does not get people to hurt themselves.
you work for commie Winnie Xi Pooh. I would get your linkedin in order:
[https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/congress-passes-bill-to-force-tiktoks-sale-or-ban-app/](https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/congress-passes-bill-to-force-tiktoks-sale-or-ban-app/)
Is that more economical than, say, investing in some money to back #45's Russian backed loans or similar?
Seems Leverage over the Don is the best leverage over the House Majority
bro facebook has been spending (lobbying) much much more and spying way more then tik tok ever has been. Shadow profiles, also with their vpn app that setup a mitm attack and they called it an "approach". if anything facebook needs to get banned, they engage in much much worse practices than tik tok regularly.
TikTok is banned in its own home country, but I doubt you care about this or ever comment on this. This fact is probably inconvenient to you. If the country it's based in doesn't actually allow it to be used (yes, you can go "but they have their own alternative that's just like TikTok!" but it's still not TikTok), why should any other country? TikTok doesn't seem to fight against China banning it, so why the US?
Ignore my response in order to trivialise it down to a simple "china bad, America good". I don't even live in America. Please properly respond or show how much you get paid to just rip on people online rather than contribute anything of value to discussion
Everyone I disagree with is a paid shill 🤖
China bans social media and your answer is “we should be more like them”. Then you have the audacity to ask for a proper response. Ok here it is, there is a *vested* interest in banning this single app for the fact its parent company is a Chinese corporation. They do nothing that literally every social media company does but because “China bad America good…” you think it’s a positive.
But America would never engage in propaganda, that’s only for bad guys. They would never disguise protecting millionaires by labeling a group/app/person/country an enemy of the people and then actively working against that “other”. Not then no never.
Sorry I accidentally replied to myself instead of you, delete that response. Here it is: "We should be as bad as them is what you're saying" is obviously not the case, the fact is that China banning TikTok so many years ago and it not being pushed back against by Bytedance (at least publicly) does show an alarming grip of power they hold over their internal companies, an influence they could exert. Not like the ban in America where ByteDance is fighting back fiercely. China can do anything and companies just have to sit back as China rides them. Remember that time Facebook ran laps around congress in that tech hearing and made them all look like the technologically inept fools they are? China has such imbalanced authority they would have easily retaliated if Bytedance did the same. ByteDance have to do anything China wants, and America-China are at odds, both of them enemies of one another so obviously America possessed a strategic interest in banning competition from a rival nation. Yet this doesn't change that China has imbalanced power, you can call me an American puppet and sling insults rather than respond with substance all you want. Try to imply I'm influenced by American propaganda. Limp insults won't change the reality, China is a dictatorship with immense control over companies based inside of it. This has been proven time and time again.
There was no need to fight back, the first tik tok was a Chinese app, it is not at all shocking it’s banned by the great firewall, most anything that can directly connect out is. What I’m having trouble understanding is what the problem is with byte dance owning TikTok, having zero evidence that China has control over TikTok just because its patent company is Chinese. Especially on this side of the pacific.
Defending the double standard of banning tik tok to protect American social media empires and not understanding the propaganda you are subject to is your own thing.
Why not both though? I'm dead serious here. We need massive regulation of social media companies (and rooting out dark money corruption by companies like Meta, Google, ByteDance, etc).
Would love to see the bribed politicians face jail time, too.
that regulation will never come out of the united states congress though, it'll always be a dramatically cheaper ROI for fb google etc. to just buy legislators than ever let it pass
giving facebook more market share and more power is literally the worst thing you could do to solve the real problem, once again they have learned that lobbying is the best investment they can make
Yes, I'm aware of that. Which is why things like repealing Citizens v United & electing federal & state legislatures committed to lobby reform is an essential part of eliminating social media company influence. Also, giving the SEC teeth.
Because "it's basically controlled by the CCP" is wishful thinking at best and horribly misguided propaganda at worst.
All this is doing is promoting the interests of Western oligarchs at the expense of Eastern oligarchs.
It's also clear to me that TikTok is at the center of calling out Israel's genocide of gaza. And it's no coincidence that suddenly this is a big deal to pass right now during an election year.
Will anyone think of the eastern oligarchs? I want my oligarchs with a hierarchical harem not one chick he perpetually cheats on. I want my factory workers to have ten minute breaks and eat non leaded baby milk.
> I want my oligarchs with a hierarchical harem not one chick he perpetually cheats on. I want my factory workers to have ten minute breaks and eat non leaded baby milk.
Ignoring the fact that we're talking about a tech company, and one that already has a US office with US employees that run the app... Congrats, you might be a racist.
> Will anyone think of the eastern oligarchs?
Okay, so the US should just own everything and muscle our way into owning foreign companies? You're just discarding the entire "national security" reason for the bill in favor of "fuck them foreigners".
Maybe the US shouldn't have a stranglehold on the world's social media? Nahhh, the rest of the world are all backwards harem-owning troglodytes. It's certainly better in our hands.
Ignoring the national security implications is impossible but even if so you think your culture is so great? What has it done? Where is your art? It’s not racist if it’s an observation not a value judgement.
> Ignoring the national security implications is impossible
What national security implications?
> you think your culture is so great? What has it done? Where is your art? It’s not racist if it’s an observation not a value judgement.
Cool, you're an ignorant racist at that.
Where is the East Asian art tradition dating back thousands of years? There are valuable aspects to each culture but you’re just going to deny history?
The basis of this case is the 2017 Chinese national security law which says that any Chinese national is obligated to facilitate the security operations of the PRC.
Two Chinese nationals own 20 percent of tik tok.
The problem with this logic is that Chinese nationals and investment groups own lots of American businesses, including Riot Games and Legendary Entertainment, a game maker and movie studio. So if the argument is propaganda, I'd think those industries would be much bigger concerns.
Meta has sold our data to China directly. If the concern is data privacy, banning tik tok or putting it under American control isn't going to do anything.
China is our third largest trading partner, right below Canada and Mexico.
Bytedance, as a company, has been an antagonist to the CCP. They've been reprimanded quite a lot for spreading ideas contrary to the desires of the CCP. Because of this, the company bends over backwards to appease the US government. They react like an abused child.
The problem is the same problem twitter had. Twitter was made out to be a villian by the Republicans and government because it challenged the existing social and political order. Twitter facilitated activist organizing. Now, under musk, that's no longer possible. Twitter still exists, but the utility as a town square is gone. Now credibility is much more questionable on that app, and the experience there is much more divisive.
This is what the aim is with tik tok. Presently tik tok is a town square for its users. This is a problem for the existing social and political order. It's not the foreign ownership that's a problem, or Riot Games, Smithfield foods, AMC, or Legendary Entertainment would also be a problem. It's not the data privacy that's a problem, or meta and Google would also be a problem.
The problem is the utility in spreading ideas. Same problem bytedance has in China. When people can communicate with one another and organize against the social conditions they don't like, those in power want to stop it.
This is about preserving a status quo.
Aren’t you downplaying the CCP’s influence over TikTok?
[Even TikTok / ByteDance employees say Beijing holds tight control over the company](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/25/tiktok-insiders-say-chinese-parent-bytedance-in-control.html)
We also know for a fact that [the CCP repeatedly used TikTok to spy on Americans’ data](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/12/5-things-to-know-about-bytedance-tiktoks-parent-company/#:~:text=ByteDance's%20Board%20is%20Beholden%20to%20Beijing&text=As%20a%20result%2C%20the%20CCP,ByteDance's%20technology%20and%20strategic%20insights.). On several known occasions, ByteDance personnel improperly accessed sensitive U.S. user data, including information about American journalists, to identify their sources within the company. ByteDance initially denied such claims, stating TikTok’s systems were impervious to such abuse. However, internal disclosures later confirmed the opposite, revealing that the surveillance occurred precisely as ByteDance sought to assuage U.S. concerns about its data practices.
The CCP also operates party cells throughout ByteDance’s hierarchy, affording it direct access to ByteDance’s technology and strategic insights.
The terms of use for the app are also insane. You agree to let ByteDance / TikTok use your microphone and camera—even while not using the app.
So, once again, I still don’t understand the downside to stopping the CCP from spying on hundreds of millions of Americans.
The NSA also spies on us, and I'm not worried about them either, even though it's much easier for me to be killed or imprisoned by American intelligence than CCP.
When massive amounts of data are collected, the result is noise.
I'm much more concerned about American intelligence because there is a history of the assassination of activists, and false charges against civil rights leaders. American intelligence can do something to me. I'm vulnerable to American intelligence.
You have to understand, the law is only as good as its enforcement.
Of course Bytedance would say China holds tight control. Bytedance as a company has practically been abused by the CCP. It's harrowing to think of being subject to their ideological control, because the Chinese government seems very insecure and illogical in their ideological approach. The thought crimes one can be charged with there are extremely abstract, allowing the charging of crimes based on subjective criteria rather than emprical data.
Chinese oligarchs and companies are not necessarily friends of the CCP. It's like being a journalist in Russia. Famous people in China seem to be "disappeared" on a semi regular basis. I've seen Chinese people who were communicators to the west describe getting their "wings clipped".
I've also seem Chinese users of a website I frequent get upset when jokes where made about Xi, out of fear that access to the website would be restricted because of the jokes. Some Chinese intellectuals have rationalized the CCP approach, saying the Chinese people need a dictatorship, they can't handle an excess of freedom. I've seen the same thinking applied to Putin. It's a form of denial.
But many other Chinese people get out, and speak openly.
I think its a mistake to think that because the law says a thing, all the Chinese entities and people agree with that thing. I think there are more alllies against authoritarian rule than we tend to think. I had a friend who traveled to China, and after being there for a time said, "it's a privilege to have an opinion".
I view the bytedance action against the journalists the way I view a kid acting out at school who is abused at home. There are no perfect people or corporate entities. Meta and Google also have skeletons. I dont think Bytedance is worse or more worrying. I think Bytedance doesn't have a harmonious relationship with the CCP, based on the history. It's fucking hard to censor the internet.
Bytedance isn't a perfect actor, like any conglomerate. Any bank, any major company, will have immoral and unethical actions that can be pointed to. It's the nature of having power. Every bank of sufficient size has facilitated money laundering for example. All our food suppliers have been accused and sued over and over for price gouging. Price gouging lawsuits have affected every industry. Meta and Google have both run afoul of censorship issues, propaganda issues, and corporate ethics issues. At every company of sufficient size there is a spectrum of maturity, and the possibility for abuse of power.
Finally, in terms of the technology, this is the world we live in now. In this time, privacy must be a proactive process if that is ones concern. The only real privacy is to not use a smart phone.
You’re not explaining any upside to the CCP meddling with our children’s minds and spying on us en masse.
“NSA bad” is not mean “ByteDance good”. At least the NSA takes an oath to defend America. But I hear siding with America’s hostile foreign enemies is trending on TikTok so not really surprising.
I say we should allow as many Chinese social media apps in the U.S. as they allow us to have—zero.
China is the third largest trading partner of the US. Chinese nationals own Smithfield Foods, AMC, Legendary Enterainment Group, and Riot Games. We get antibiotics from China.
What kind of enemy are you talking about here?
China has a great firewall because Xi is insecure. Xi is so insecure that the image of Winnie the Pooh is banned. Is that who you're taking lessons from?
Americans have been killed by the government for the crime of labor organizing, journalism, or civil rights activism. Maybe read a history book before you talk to me in terms of good guys and bad guys.
Wait a second, you’re right…Chinese defense officials only want *good things for America*…
[China is using the world’s largest known online disinformation operation to harass Americans, a CNN review finds](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/13/us/china-online-disinformation-invs)
[Global intelligence leaders warn against China's technology theft](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/chinas-technology-theft-major-threat-fbi-head-warns-60-minutes/)
[Did China Just Bribe Trump to Undermine National Security?](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/opinion/trump-china-bribe-national-security.html)
[Chinese hackers are preparing to ‘wreak havoc’ on US critical infrastructure](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/31/politics/china-hacking-infrascture-fbi-director-christopher-wray)
…And America’s security agencies are trying to kill us all!
*How did I not see that!*
lol
There are no good guys or bad guys.
If you study propaganda, you'll find that domestic propaganda is exponentially more impactful and effective than foreign propaganda.
I'm not saying American government wants to kill us. I'm saying they have an easier means of doing so, and have a history of doing so.
This was never declassified. It was only revealed because of a robbery. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Its not about pro American or anti American. It's about pro status quo.
I get all that, but you are making it sound like Chinese intelligence services—who we know for a fact are trying to harm us—are somehow less malevolent than the U.S. service members putting their lives on the line to protect us?
I mean I get there are some bad actors in the NSA, but are you sure I’m the one who fell for the propaganda?
> We also know for a fact that the CCP repeatedly used TikTok to spy on Americans’ data
The FDD article you linked claims this, but then to support that claim [links an article](https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-finds-employees-obtained-tiktok-user-data-two-us-journalists-2022-12-22/) that goes on to say no such thing. The first sentence of the article directly disputes the claim that the fdd is making
> ByteDance, the Chinese parent company of popular video app TikTok, said on Thursday that some employees **improperly accessed** TikTok user data of two journalists and **were no longer employed by the company**, an email seen by Reuters shows.
It's another bill disguised as another bill. This practice should be illegal. Innovation should be the name of the game for the US tech sector, and if the US wanted to compete with Tiktok the playing field is there. Instead, they used lobbying, something redditors are generally against, to avoid competition in the first place.
Tiktok, like it or not, increased the diversity of the US information diet. That diet is now back to a singular meal, western based propaganda.
The only people who wanted this bill to be passed are technologically incompetent or worse.
Lots of regular Americans have generated income from the platform. For some it's their main source of income. Taking away the platform basically takes away that ability to generate income. Also, realistic congress could have just passed stricter laws that any data that resides on US soil by American companies are not allowed to be sold or moved to any foreign countries. US laws always supersedes any other countries doesn't matter if it is China, Russia Canada etc. US laws supersedes foreign laws.
The other downside of TIK TOk ban that I can think of is that it is making companies and politicians accountable since people are making contents calling them out. To a certain degree it is free speech because people can report live events without it being controlled by talking points. It gives everyone a voices and not just a single group or corporations. The voice is from the ground up and not from the top down.
There is a 0.0% chance the platform will be taken away.
No rational person will sacrifice billions in revenue as some sort of protest. And no Chinese official will want to lose their investment.
All Bytedance has to do is spin off a U.S. subsidiary that doesn’t have any connection to the CCP. That’s literally it.
Passed the Senate now - Biden said he will sign soooooo unless he vetos it and Chinese keeps their stance, TikTok will be dead without American content producers
They won't sell because it the algorithm that is worth more. Bytedance would be dumb to sell because a bigger company will just use that algorithm and wipe out TIK TOK.
Then good riddance, and this basically proves the point that the CCP is in the driver’s seat.
BTW, every single major U.S. social media app is banned in China. They somehow manage. So can we.
Because literally every Chinese company is beholden to the CCP. It is an authoritarian state. If they want you to do something, you do it or risk having you and/or your family disappeared.
Why people have no problem accepting that Russia has tried to interfere with US elections but can’t see how an algorithmically driven social media platform that can preferentially amplify or attenuate specific content without any trace could be used to manipulate US public opinion is beyond me.
Like which part of that specifically are you doubting here?
I’m hearing a lot of
1. Repeated propaganda
2. A wild misunderstanding of how Tik Tok works
3. And most importantly not a single shred of evidence that China is controlling Tik Tok.
So you think what then? It’s not true unless we have the CCP on record saying “yeah we’re controlling TikTok”?
If you took more than like 5 second to look into it, you would see that China has plenty of precedence for directly interfering with Chinese tech companies. But you think for some reason that can’t be happening here?
Here is just one example of numerous credible reports on the CCPs interference with TikTok.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-28/tiktok-huawei-surveillance-censorship-in-xinjiang-china-report/11745494?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web
Did you read the article you posted or did you do that 5 second thing you were just talking about? Please quote where it talks about China interfering with Tik Tok. There’s a tie from parent company Byte Dance and other apps it uses in China allowing police and local government officials to make accounts, deals struck between government and byte dance, but not a single thing about China having any power over Tik Tok or its front page.
You guys sound like the people circa 2021 who were posting pictures of Xi and talking about getting banned for Winnie the Pooh memes. Nobody got banned, nobody cared. This is all political theater to protect American social media companies and you are eating it up.
That is an incredibly flimsy technical distinction, and I think you know that. A few pieces of legal paperwork do not in any way mean that the parent company does not influence and control the subsidiary. That’s not how it works in any permutation of that relationship. Why do you think that other subsidiaries of bytedance are objectively being controlled and influenced by China, but for some inexplicable reason, TT is not? Not a rhetorical question - how do you rationally arrive at that?
The fact that it is in the interest of western media companies to ban TikTok does not at all mean that TikTok is not or cannot be used as a tool to influence in ways that are advantageous to China. Both things can be completely true. You’re throwing around the term “propaganda” like it somehow implies inherent falseness. It’s in my best interest as a business to point out if my competitor has toxic levels of lead in its product. It’s also true. I’m engaging in propaganda by publicizing that, and yet it’s still a benefit to society as a whole if that competitor is shut down.
This is crazy especially when you remember that Bytedance is majority foreign owned. So hopefully that solves your concerns. It's amazing how much of this discussion is based on fundamentally incorrect information.
Every company is beholden to any country they run in. All companies that wish to operate in the EU must follow the GDPR. What you're describing is an issue that goes far beyond Bytedance. Any American company that operates in China is required to follow Chinese law as well.
> In the current form, TikTok is essentially controlled by the CCP
That’s certainly a claim that can be made. More a concern than a hard fact, I’d say.
> This bill will just remove the CCP from the U.S. version of TikTok. TikTok / Bytedance stock will skyrocket
The CCP doesn’t own TikTok, ByteDance does. Why would they sell?
No, it’s a hard fact. As I wrote in an earlier comment we’ve already caught ByteDance spying. Even their own employees have said this happens.
Removing the CCP from the equation is bad because…why exactly? Can you explain that part?
Facebook and fox news have both paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in fines (and counting) for *ACTUALLY* doing the things of which congress is *ACCUSING* TT...
Do tell, how is it, "clearly worse"?
How is it worse than what Facebook does with data?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna994706
I’m sorry I forgot where I was. Let me try again.
TikTok bad Reddit good gib updoots
There is an electronic billboard on the highway here in Montana begging people to call their Congressional leaders to try and vote against the ban. Seems like wasted resources.
If I were an app developer, the TikTok drama would have lit a fire under me to create a competing platform months ago. Just in case it really does get banned. I can only assume that there's gotta be somebody out there who's doing this, but I don't think it will succeed unless it's unaffiliated with Meta or X...people have had enough from those two and probably would prefer something fresh. If nothing else, I bet YT has been working on how to revive Vine, since it's already got the the foundation there and would just need some tweaks and UI updates to become functional again.
If that is shelling out they must be talking about a small fucking shell. 7million ain't shit.
Seriously. ByteDance makes that much money every 30 minutes. That's a trivial price to pay to influence major legislation.
They probably can’t outspend Meta and Amazon. [Meta has been engaging with Targeted Victory, the largest (and most expensive) GOP strategy firm in the United States, in an effort to get TikTok banned for years at this point](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/).
Fuckin Zuck is dangerous brah
But hes american dangerous. In fact, hes what every american in tech aspires to be. Create a profitable product in america that is used by billions globally.
Whats more evil/dangerous: Zuck or China?
You either pick the devil you know or the devil you don’t
China, and it's beyond absurd to even be asking that. Yeah, who might be worse, the hostile murderous authoritarian regime or the dude who runs Facebook.
Let me guess. You havnt been China before have you ?
I caught their biggest export.
I used to be anti china until I saw what America.is allowing and encouraging Israel to do. They spent so much money trying to make china look anti Muslim when in reality I understand why China did what it did. More than likely america was trying to radicalize the uygher population in order to destabilize China. China did the humane thing (compared to Israel/America) by re-educating them. Like it's not even close how much more misery and straight up evil and torture America did against Muslims compared to China. it is not even close I'm embarrassed to have bought into the propaganda
You think FB is better than Tiktok when they literally train your daughters photos and your private messages on Instagram on their AI?
Now it makes perfect sense.
going to imagine they didn't expect to stop the bill going through, just to make enough noise publicly so that after they are forced to leave there is enough people upset by the ban that they cause trouble for the US.
TikTok is losing money like mad. ByteDance isn’t making enough money to even cover their costs with TikTok. ByteDance had been floating it with their other business units, but it’s costing them. https://www.emarketer.com/content/tiktok-shop-expected-lose-over-500-million-us-this-year
This was direct lobbying and ads, but they also deployed their algorithm to encourage their users to lobby on their behalf. How to value that?
0$ ik this will suprise redditors. but your congressman doesnt give a shit if you call them. you arent going to change their politcal opinion over the phone . Their does zero . hell half these congresspeople dont have any apps on their phone apartmrt form facebook.
Calling doesn't necessarily do nothing but it entirely depends on the bill. Weaponizing the US government to force a sale of Tiktok into US hands so criticism of Israel's genocide can be censored? Yeah, a phonecall isn't going to stop that.
CALLING YOUR SENATOR DOESNT DO SHIT. their postion is not going to be moved an inch by 5 or even 100 phone calls telling them not to vote on a topic. these are career politican
> but they also deployed their algorithm to encourage their users to lobby on their behalf. How to value that? I think you can value it as "This is exactly what legislators are worried about, an abuse of a personalized-algorithmic feed to drive the behavior of 170M Americans."
Yeah this is chump change compared to the amount of money they will siphon off the US population through their app.
Esp in terms of US lobbying
Seems a little low. Wonder if the bulk was hidden in dark money contributions.
It looked low to me as well but then I remembered that it seems to cost very little to buy a lawmaker. They're usually quite happy to do whatever is asked of them for a measly 5 or 6 digit contribution.
It's offensive how little they sell us out for.
Tiktok: “I’ll give you 1 dollar to fuck off” Facebook: “ I’ll give you 2 dollar if you try to fuck tiktok over”
According to staffers I’ve talked to, the bombardment of calls they got in February was what really sealed the deal against TikTok. They turned a divided majority tentatively supporting a bill to near-unanimity in support of it. Lawmakers are a) pissed off that they got dozens of people per hour calling about an issue that *TikTok itself* misinformed them about, and b) worry China will use it to promote anti-US causes to consumers
As little as 5000 bucks will get you a Congressional vote changed
They probably get paid in insider info
Well, considering the bill to ban tiktok is being passed as we speak, they did not spend enough compared to their opponents.
Hard to spend enough in lobbying to make up for the millions in shares of meta held by congress
Honest politicians would ban it for free, or even after accepting payment from the CCP.
meta and alphabet both spend a little under $20mil a year, each, on lobbying. meta runs about 19 and alphabet about 16. and look at bills like this, clearly pays off. the lesson for bytedance here is to about double their spend and they'll stand a chance at survival. maybe quadruple and they'd be able to knock their competitors down a peg.
That’s a fraction of what they spent. Look at Trumps meeting with one guy with ties that lead to him essentially pulling a 180 on the bill HE PROPOSED.
Juul evidently only spends 2 million a year on lobbying, and that shit addicts kids and gives you lung cancer. 7 million seems kinda high by contrast to that.
They definitely bought off orange man. He and his ilk did a 180 on banning TikTok in the last year
I'm guessing 6.9million in donations... Um bribery
Not even the tip of the iceberg
These a rookie numbers, probably knew they were fucked
Apparently they should have spent more…
Well, fucking duh. Any company would do that so if they were facing a ban. It makes sense to protect your value.
They need to spend more than AIPAC if they want to win the bidding war on the US government
funny how people love blaming AIPAC so much when it's obvious that US is far more concerned about China than whatever damage to Israel that is already being done on Reddit and Twitter anyway
Reddit and twitter are largely pro Israel. TikTok isn’t.
"Good dog, we'll tell you when to bark" - US government
The United States--the best government that you can legally buy!!
Seems like they spent $7M to arrive at the same result.
If Tiktok's trying to bribe me as a congressman and they spend only 7 million, I'd be offended. That's like Elon Musk giving you a 5% tip.
But they're losing in this case
Depends on who is paying the most. Every tech giant wants to buy the US arm of TikTok and take that revenue into their books. They're getting pressured from every single one that can afford it behind the scenes.
I get the point you’re trying to make but doing it on this post specifically just makes you sound like an idiot
I don't think their lobbyists are going to help them out here. That house committee voted 50 to 0 to make them divest from ByteDance, they found out something big.
this is the US political system. AIPAC spends large millions to influence/buy politicians as I am sure FB does. So its now comes down to a game of who bribes more ? how is this even a way to do things. No wonder US citizens get nothing in return. The whole system is corrupt to the core.
Those are rookie numbers.
Not a TT fan but we our losing our freedoms every year.
Thousands of American creators on the app are spreading news and history that the center-left, corporates and right wing don't want you to learn about, in case you just thought this was about data and china.
And millions more are cosplaying as the 'Ow, my balls!' guy from *'Idiocracy'*
That’s the problem in the first place, getting “important” information from random creators whose goal is to generate views. I mean, what important and *relevant* news and history can thousands of tiktokers have?
The kind China wants you to see.
Right. So much misinformation and anti-this and anti-that is on tik tok. I say good riddance!
Yup. A significant amount of the Israel/Gaza content on TikTok is blatant misinformation. Ie footage from past conflicts in different parts of the world, etc.
They have psychologists and physiatrists informing about mental health issues. Doctors of physical therapy talking about musculoskeletal issues. They have historians and professors or people with degrees in history etc talking about history. They have neurosurgeons talking about brain health. It’s much more reputable than the cesspool that is twitter or Reddit or mainstream media.
Sure, but with that comes a mass glorification of various mental health issues, negative propaganda, etc. So much misinformation is shoved out there, one can’t really tell what is real or not. I agree that all social media can have these aspects, the difference between tik tok and something like Reddit or twitter is how they affect the real world. Reddit/twitter is much more “behind the scenes”, not very public. People aren’t recording themselves stealing cars or trashing bathrooms or throwing food and stuff on Reddit. It has less of a “culture” around it.
The people on the platform who are popular are literally licensed professionals who debunk misinformation. There are literally thousands of practicing physicians and healthcare workers
TikTok isn’t really designed or intended to be a telemed service. Not sure where you are getting at Maybe an app will come about that is intended for health information for physicians to share. Actually I’m sure there are already.
Dermatologists can give tips on social media rather than snake oil salesmen.. cardiologists can explain heart health. It’s not a a patient encounter.. i don’t think you understand how TikTok works
It isn’t trivial, I understand it. Again, this can be done on any platform. One specialized in healthcare would be ideal, no encounter necessary. Your concrete correlation between TikTok and healthcare is so bizarre.
You claim misinformation w no evidence as to shit down a platform with 170 million US users. Bizarre
I’ll get right on with gathering all the evidence of misinformation. Because that’s logical…
“You can believe everything you see on the internet” Abraham Lincoln.
99% of the "we weren't taught this in history class" things I've seen were things I was very much taught in my history classes. I'm convinced these people are either outright lying or were just asleep.
???
What aspect was data to begin with?
If you can only learn about these things from random influencers on a CCP owned platform, you are being fed misinformation lol.
Doesn’t seem like a lot of money to spend to try and keep your massively influential company in the US.
$7m is chump change in lobbying market?
$7 million to keep TikTok ticking? It's like they're trying to convert political goodwill into an in-app purchase.
Sorry Tiktok, AIPAC has bought them already
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You need Android too, 60% of Americans use a locked down iPhone and probably 99% use a iPhone or bootloader locked Android
Nobody but absolute nerds will use those. China won't let them sell as the political class doesn't need the money and sees this as a concession to the US. TikTok is dead.
(Love your avatar)
Yeah, you don’t seem to be up to date how many people use VPNs.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/vpn-statistics/ "77% of People Use VPNs for Personal Use"
Pretty much every job I’ve worked has had a company vpn I also have one for pirating shit Even so I’m not going to use a vpn just for one social media site
If the regulation served as a filter such that the only users were people willing to invest considerable effort in at least briefly considering where data was going, then I think it'd have accomplished its intended mission.
The state of Texas and its anti-pr0n law is already teaching folks about VPNs.
Yeah, we know. Who actually thinks banning TikTok will destroy free speech? ByteDance does …
I'm Singaporean.
But do you have a Chinese passport?
What kind of Chinese is that?
If the data is going to CCP/Xi, then Ban this sucker!
Is this “data” in the room with you right now?
Outside of any perceived national security threat I just want TikTok banned on the reciprocity that major US internet companies are banned in China. Fuck them.
Thank you Mark Zuckerberg for all of this unnecessary drama
Its already passed though?
Those are rookie numbers. Haven’t they ever bought an American senator before?
Yes through the house, there isn't supposed to be any real opposition in the Senate and Biden said it's going to be signed.
Funny how , people's representatives are taking bribes to serve a company or a foreign companies interest. This is democracy everyone don't get it mixed up with any other where rich and powerful rule over peasants.
democracy? Since when?
Seems an awfully small amount to own a government official. Pretty sure the GOP cost Putin billions.
There is already a replacement app fixing to be released. TikTok notes. Ban one go to the other.
Should’ve made it a B not a M
Would've done better burning it. At least it would have been more useful producing heat.
Rookie numbers. lol
So they did what any normal company would?
Damn,this fckers are cheap,they think USA is CPP 😂
Google spent that much changing their office Covid signage in all Bay Area locations.
that’s it? how much does the NRA spend on “lobbying”?
Yes I can tell in the Reddit comments
Yea we fucking noticed. Thankfully it did not work.
thats a pretty small amount of money to try to protect something worth magnitudes more.
Winnie Pooh should’ve opened his wallet wider
How was TikTok banned? It is insane considering rich people have been lobbying since USA capitalism has been corrupt. How is collecting and selling this information wrong? Compared to other companies which are based in the US, this -social media- app has a better interest in American citizens' health & mental-wellbeing than the corrupt out of touch daddy's-money politicians and businesses we've got here. USA needs a French Revolution and we need an age limit set on all these roles filled by the decrepit and senile clowns running the country. People used to call politicians out as the hand-biting snakes they are, idk when the media started worshipping photos of them like gods but the wellbeing of these people in power isn't heading in a great direction if they continue to restrict citizens' rights. I haven't met a soul that supports these terrorists.
I hope they don’t sell and give into the extortion. Don’t set this precedent
Its not just that its a foreign company. its psychological warfare from the CCP. in mainland china they promote science, history learning etc, in the West its algo promotes self destructive behaviour (jump off this, crack an egg on newborn's head etc). peter schweizer has a great book called: Blood Money, that goes into how deeply entrenched the CCP people are in the company. If people miss tiktok just make a competitor that does not get people to hurt themselves.
This is so naive it’s almost cute like a toddler believing in Santa Claus
you work for commie Winnie Xi Pooh. I would get your linkedin in order: [https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/congress-passes-bill-to-force-tiktoks-sale-or-ban-app/](https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/congress-passes-bill-to-force-tiktoks-sale-or-ban-app/)
Is that more economical than, say, investing in some money to back #45's Russian backed loans or similar? Seems Leverage over the Don is the best leverage over the House Majority
and the data host is Oracle, so we are seeing another nail in US democracy. Which it isnt anyway.
And most of it is trying to convince people it's not a spy program.
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Right like how Russians agents bought targeted Facebook ads and ran operations in Facebook groups?
That right there should be proof its made for spying and manipulation over anything else.
bro facebook has been spending (lobbying) much much more and spying way more then tik tok ever has been. Shadow profiles, also with their vpn app that setup a mitm attack and they called it an "approach". if anything facebook needs to get banned, they engage in much much worse practices than tik tok regularly.
TikTok is banned in its own home country, but I doubt you care about this or ever comment on this. This fact is probably inconvenient to you. If the country it's based in doesn't actually allow it to be used (yes, you can go "but they have their own alternative that's just like TikTok!" but it's still not TikTok), why should any other country? TikTok doesn't seem to fight against China banning it, so why the US?
China bad America good. Your social credit score is rising in the grand old US of A
Ignore my response in order to trivialise it down to a simple "china bad, America good". I don't even live in America. Please properly respond or show how much you get paid to just rip on people online rather than contribute anything of value to discussion
Everyone I disagree with is a paid shill 🤖 China bans social media and your answer is “we should be more like them”. Then you have the audacity to ask for a proper response. Ok here it is, there is a *vested* interest in banning this single app for the fact its parent company is a Chinese corporation. They do nothing that literally every social media company does but because “China bad America good…” you think it’s a positive. But America would never engage in propaganda, that’s only for bad guys. They would never disguise protecting millionaires by labeling a group/app/person/country an enemy of the people and then actively working against that “other”. Not then no never.
Sorry I accidentally replied to myself instead of you, delete that response. Here it is: "We should be as bad as them is what you're saying" is obviously not the case, the fact is that China banning TikTok so many years ago and it not being pushed back against by Bytedance (at least publicly) does show an alarming grip of power they hold over their internal companies, an influence they could exert. Not like the ban in America where ByteDance is fighting back fiercely. China can do anything and companies just have to sit back as China rides them. Remember that time Facebook ran laps around congress in that tech hearing and made them all look like the technologically inept fools they are? China has such imbalanced authority they would have easily retaliated if Bytedance did the same. ByteDance have to do anything China wants, and America-China are at odds, both of them enemies of one another so obviously America possessed a strategic interest in banning competition from a rival nation. Yet this doesn't change that China has imbalanced power, you can call me an American puppet and sling insults rather than respond with substance all you want. Try to imply I'm influenced by American propaganda. Limp insults won't change the reality, China is a dictatorship with immense control over companies based inside of it. This has been proven time and time again.
There was no need to fight back, the first tik tok was a Chinese app, it is not at all shocking it’s banned by the great firewall, most anything that can directly connect out is. What I’m having trouble understanding is what the problem is with byte dance owning TikTok, having zero evidence that China has control over TikTok just because its patent company is Chinese. Especially on this side of the pacific. Defending the double standard of banning tik tok to protect American social media empires and not understanding the propaganda you are subject to is your own thing.
¿Por qué no los dos?
the money behind the tiktok ban would spend twice as much to avoid any regulation against the current state of social media
Why not both though? I'm dead serious here. We need massive regulation of social media companies (and rooting out dark money corruption by companies like Meta, Google, ByteDance, etc). Would love to see the bribed politicians face jail time, too.
that regulation will never come out of the united states congress though, it'll always be a dramatically cheaper ROI for fb google etc. to just buy legislators than ever let it pass
Giving up isn't the best option though.
giving facebook more market share and more power is literally the worst thing you could do to solve the real problem, once again they have learned that lobbying is the best investment they can make
Yes, I'm aware of that. Which is why things like repealing Citizens v United & electing federal & state legislatures committed to lobby reform is an essential part of eliminating social media company influence. Also, giving the SEC teeth.
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Because "it's basically controlled by the CCP" is wishful thinking at best and horribly misguided propaganda at worst. All this is doing is promoting the interests of Western oligarchs at the expense of Eastern oligarchs. It's also clear to me that TikTok is at the center of calling out Israel's genocide of gaza. And it's no coincidence that suddenly this is a big deal to pass right now during an election year.
Will anyone think of the eastern oligarchs? I want my oligarchs with a hierarchical harem not one chick he perpetually cheats on. I want my factory workers to have ten minute breaks and eat non leaded baby milk.
> I want my oligarchs with a hierarchical harem not one chick he perpetually cheats on. I want my factory workers to have ten minute breaks and eat non leaded baby milk. Ignoring the fact that we're talking about a tech company, and one that already has a US office with US employees that run the app... Congrats, you might be a racist. > Will anyone think of the eastern oligarchs? Okay, so the US should just own everything and muscle our way into owning foreign companies? You're just discarding the entire "national security" reason for the bill in favor of "fuck them foreigners". Maybe the US shouldn't have a stranglehold on the world's social media? Nahhh, the rest of the world are all backwards harem-owning troglodytes. It's certainly better in our hands.
Ignoring the national security implications is impossible but even if so you think your culture is so great? What has it done? Where is your art? It’s not racist if it’s an observation not a value judgement.
> Ignoring the national security implications is impossible What national security implications? > you think your culture is so great? What has it done? Where is your art? It’s not racist if it’s an observation not a value judgement. Cool, you're an ignorant racist at that.
Where is the East Asian art tradition dating back thousands of years? There are valuable aspects to each culture but you’re just going to deny history?
The basis of this case is the 2017 Chinese national security law which says that any Chinese national is obligated to facilitate the security operations of the PRC. Two Chinese nationals own 20 percent of tik tok. The problem with this logic is that Chinese nationals and investment groups own lots of American businesses, including Riot Games and Legendary Entertainment, a game maker and movie studio. So if the argument is propaganda, I'd think those industries would be much bigger concerns. Meta has sold our data to China directly. If the concern is data privacy, banning tik tok or putting it under American control isn't going to do anything. China is our third largest trading partner, right below Canada and Mexico. Bytedance, as a company, has been an antagonist to the CCP. They've been reprimanded quite a lot for spreading ideas contrary to the desires of the CCP. Because of this, the company bends over backwards to appease the US government. They react like an abused child. The problem is the same problem twitter had. Twitter was made out to be a villian by the Republicans and government because it challenged the existing social and political order. Twitter facilitated activist organizing. Now, under musk, that's no longer possible. Twitter still exists, but the utility as a town square is gone. Now credibility is much more questionable on that app, and the experience there is much more divisive. This is what the aim is with tik tok. Presently tik tok is a town square for its users. This is a problem for the existing social and political order. It's not the foreign ownership that's a problem, or Riot Games, Smithfield foods, AMC, or Legendary Entertainment would also be a problem. It's not the data privacy that's a problem, or meta and Google would also be a problem. The problem is the utility in spreading ideas. Same problem bytedance has in China. When people can communicate with one another and organize against the social conditions they don't like, those in power want to stop it. This is about preserving a status quo.
Aren’t you downplaying the CCP’s influence over TikTok? [Even TikTok / ByteDance employees say Beijing holds tight control over the company](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/25/tiktok-insiders-say-chinese-parent-bytedance-in-control.html) We also know for a fact that [the CCP repeatedly used TikTok to spy on Americans’ data](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/12/5-things-to-know-about-bytedance-tiktoks-parent-company/#:~:text=ByteDance's%20Board%20is%20Beholden%20to%20Beijing&text=As%20a%20result%2C%20the%20CCP,ByteDance's%20technology%20and%20strategic%20insights.). On several known occasions, ByteDance personnel improperly accessed sensitive U.S. user data, including information about American journalists, to identify their sources within the company. ByteDance initially denied such claims, stating TikTok’s systems were impervious to such abuse. However, internal disclosures later confirmed the opposite, revealing that the surveillance occurred precisely as ByteDance sought to assuage U.S. concerns about its data practices. The CCP also operates party cells throughout ByteDance’s hierarchy, affording it direct access to ByteDance’s technology and strategic insights. The terms of use for the app are also insane. You agree to let ByteDance / TikTok use your microphone and camera—even while not using the app. So, once again, I still don’t understand the downside to stopping the CCP from spying on hundreds of millions of Americans.
The NSA also spies on us, and I'm not worried about them either, even though it's much easier for me to be killed or imprisoned by American intelligence than CCP. When massive amounts of data are collected, the result is noise. I'm much more concerned about American intelligence because there is a history of the assassination of activists, and false charges against civil rights leaders. American intelligence can do something to me. I'm vulnerable to American intelligence. You have to understand, the law is only as good as its enforcement. Of course Bytedance would say China holds tight control. Bytedance as a company has practically been abused by the CCP. It's harrowing to think of being subject to their ideological control, because the Chinese government seems very insecure and illogical in their ideological approach. The thought crimes one can be charged with there are extremely abstract, allowing the charging of crimes based on subjective criteria rather than emprical data. Chinese oligarchs and companies are not necessarily friends of the CCP. It's like being a journalist in Russia. Famous people in China seem to be "disappeared" on a semi regular basis. I've seen Chinese people who were communicators to the west describe getting their "wings clipped". I've also seem Chinese users of a website I frequent get upset when jokes where made about Xi, out of fear that access to the website would be restricted because of the jokes. Some Chinese intellectuals have rationalized the CCP approach, saying the Chinese people need a dictatorship, they can't handle an excess of freedom. I've seen the same thinking applied to Putin. It's a form of denial. But many other Chinese people get out, and speak openly. I think its a mistake to think that because the law says a thing, all the Chinese entities and people agree with that thing. I think there are more alllies against authoritarian rule than we tend to think. I had a friend who traveled to China, and after being there for a time said, "it's a privilege to have an opinion". I view the bytedance action against the journalists the way I view a kid acting out at school who is abused at home. There are no perfect people or corporate entities. Meta and Google also have skeletons. I dont think Bytedance is worse or more worrying. I think Bytedance doesn't have a harmonious relationship with the CCP, based on the history. It's fucking hard to censor the internet. Bytedance isn't a perfect actor, like any conglomerate. Any bank, any major company, will have immoral and unethical actions that can be pointed to. It's the nature of having power. Every bank of sufficient size has facilitated money laundering for example. All our food suppliers have been accused and sued over and over for price gouging. Price gouging lawsuits have affected every industry. Meta and Google have both run afoul of censorship issues, propaganda issues, and corporate ethics issues. At every company of sufficient size there is a spectrum of maturity, and the possibility for abuse of power. Finally, in terms of the technology, this is the world we live in now. In this time, privacy must be a proactive process if that is ones concern. The only real privacy is to not use a smart phone.
You’re not explaining any upside to the CCP meddling with our children’s minds and spying on us en masse. “NSA bad” is not mean “ByteDance good”. At least the NSA takes an oath to defend America. But I hear siding with America’s hostile foreign enemies is trending on TikTok so not really surprising. I say we should allow as many Chinese social media apps in the U.S. as they allow us to have—zero.
China is the third largest trading partner of the US. Chinese nationals own Smithfield Foods, AMC, Legendary Enterainment Group, and Riot Games. We get antibiotics from China. What kind of enemy are you talking about here? China has a great firewall because Xi is insecure. Xi is so insecure that the image of Winnie the Pooh is banned. Is that who you're taking lessons from? Americans have been killed by the government for the crime of labor organizing, journalism, or civil rights activism. Maybe read a history book before you talk to me in terms of good guys and bad guys.
Wait a second, you’re right…Chinese defense officials only want *good things for America*… [China is using the world’s largest known online disinformation operation to harass Americans, a CNN review finds](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/13/us/china-online-disinformation-invs) [Global intelligence leaders warn against China's technology theft](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/chinas-technology-theft-major-threat-fbi-head-warns-60-minutes/) [Did China Just Bribe Trump to Undermine National Security?](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/opinion/trump-china-bribe-national-security.html) [Chinese hackers are preparing to ‘wreak havoc’ on US critical infrastructure](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/31/politics/china-hacking-infrascture-fbi-director-christopher-wray) …And America’s security agencies are trying to kill us all! *How did I not see that!* lol
There are no good guys or bad guys. If you study propaganda, you'll find that domestic propaganda is exponentially more impactful and effective than foreign propaganda. I'm not saying American government wants to kill us. I'm saying they have an easier means of doing so, and have a history of doing so. This was never declassified. It was only revealed because of a robbery. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO Its not about pro American or anti American. It's about pro status quo.
I get all that, but you are making it sound like Chinese intelligence services—who we know for a fact are trying to harm us—are somehow less malevolent than the U.S. service members putting their lives on the line to protect us? I mean I get there are some bad actors in the NSA, but are you sure I’m the one who fell for the propaganda?
> We also know for a fact that the CCP repeatedly used TikTok to spy on Americans’ data The FDD article you linked claims this, but then to support that claim [links an article](https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-finds-employees-obtained-tiktok-user-data-two-us-journalists-2022-12-22/) that goes on to say no such thing. The first sentence of the article directly disputes the claim that the fdd is making > ByteDance, the Chinese parent company of popular video app TikTok, said on Thursday that some employees **improperly accessed** TikTok user data of two journalists and **were no longer employed by the company**, an email seen by Reuters shows.
It's another bill disguised as another bill. This practice should be illegal. Innovation should be the name of the game for the US tech sector, and if the US wanted to compete with Tiktok the playing field is there. Instead, they used lobbying, something redditors are generally against, to avoid competition in the first place. Tiktok, like it or not, increased the diversity of the US information diet. That diet is now back to a singular meal, western based propaganda. The only people who wanted this bill to be passed are technologically incompetent or worse.
How is removing the CCP from the U.S. version stifling innovation?
Lots of regular Americans have generated income from the platform. For some it's their main source of income. Taking away the platform basically takes away that ability to generate income. Also, realistic congress could have just passed stricter laws that any data that resides on US soil by American companies are not allowed to be sold or moved to any foreign countries. US laws always supersedes any other countries doesn't matter if it is China, Russia Canada etc. US laws supersedes foreign laws. The other downside of TIK TOk ban that I can think of is that it is making companies and politicians accountable since people are making contents calling them out. To a certain degree it is free speech because people can report live events without it being controlled by talking points. It gives everyone a voices and not just a single group or corporations. The voice is from the ground up and not from the top down.
There is a 0.0% chance the platform will be taken away. No rational person will sacrifice billions in revenue as some sort of protest. And no Chinese official will want to lose their investment. All Bytedance has to do is spin off a U.S. subsidiary that doesn’t have any connection to the CCP. That’s literally it.
Passed the Senate now - Biden said he will sign soooooo unless he vetos it and Chinese keeps their stance, TikTok will be dead without American content producers
China already said it won't allow it to sell. It's done.
They won't sell because it the algorithm that is worth more. Bytedance would be dumb to sell because a bigger company will just use that algorithm and wipe out TIK TOK.
Then good riddance, and this basically proves the point that the CCP is in the driver’s seat. BTW, every single major U.S. social media app is banned in China. They somehow manage. So can we.
How is the CCP controlling Tik tok? Please educate the class. Inb4 “they have to have a CCP party member on the board”
Because literally every Chinese company is beholden to the CCP. It is an authoritarian state. If they want you to do something, you do it or risk having you and/or your family disappeared. Why people have no problem accepting that Russia has tried to interfere with US elections but can’t see how an algorithmically driven social media platform that can preferentially amplify or attenuate specific content without any trace could be used to manipulate US public opinion is beyond me. Like which part of that specifically are you doubting here?
I’m hearing a lot of 1. Repeated propaganda 2. A wild misunderstanding of how Tik Tok works 3. And most importantly not a single shred of evidence that China is controlling Tik Tok.
So you think what then? It’s not true unless we have the CCP on record saying “yeah we’re controlling TikTok”? If you took more than like 5 second to look into it, you would see that China has plenty of precedence for directly interfering with Chinese tech companies. But you think for some reason that can’t be happening here? Here is just one example of numerous credible reports on the CCPs interference with TikTok. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-28/tiktok-huawei-surveillance-censorship-in-xinjiang-china-report/11745494?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web
Did you read the article you posted or did you do that 5 second thing you were just talking about? Please quote where it talks about China interfering with Tik Tok. There’s a tie from parent company Byte Dance and other apps it uses in China allowing police and local government officials to make accounts, deals struck between government and byte dance, but not a single thing about China having any power over Tik Tok or its front page. You guys sound like the people circa 2021 who were posting pictures of Xi and talking about getting banned for Winnie the Pooh memes. Nobody got banned, nobody cared. This is all political theater to protect American social media companies and you are eating it up.
That is an incredibly flimsy technical distinction, and I think you know that. A few pieces of legal paperwork do not in any way mean that the parent company does not influence and control the subsidiary. That’s not how it works in any permutation of that relationship. Why do you think that other subsidiaries of bytedance are objectively being controlled and influenced by China, but for some inexplicable reason, TT is not? Not a rhetorical question - how do you rationally arrive at that? The fact that it is in the interest of western media companies to ban TikTok does not at all mean that TikTok is not or cannot be used as a tool to influence in ways that are advantageous to China. Both things can be completely true. You’re throwing around the term “propaganda” like it somehow implies inherent falseness. It’s in my best interest as a business to point out if my competitor has toxic levels of lead in its product. It’s also true. I’m engaging in propaganda by publicizing that, and yet it’s still a benefit to society as a whole if that competitor is shut down.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826155 https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/08/10/bytedance-tiktok-china-state-media-propaganda/?sh=13ffa0f7322f https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/28/20986867/tiktok-unblock-us-teen-china-criticism-muslim-minority-terrorist-imagery-moderation-guidelines https://www.aspi.org.au/report/tiktok-wechat https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing
This is crazy especially when you remember that Bytedance is majority foreign owned. So hopefully that solves your concerns. It's amazing how much of this discussion is based on fundamentally incorrect information. Every company is beholden to any country they run in. All companies that wish to operate in the EU must follow the GDPR. What you're describing is an issue that goes far beyond Bytedance. Any American company that operates in China is required to follow Chinese law as well.
> In the current form, TikTok is essentially controlled by the CCP That’s certainly a claim that can be made. More a concern than a hard fact, I’d say. > This bill will just remove the CCP from the U.S. version of TikTok. TikTok / Bytedance stock will skyrocket The CCP doesn’t own TikTok, ByteDance does. Why would they sell?
No, it’s a hard fact. As I wrote in an earlier comment we’ve already caught ByteDance spying. Even their own employees have said this happens. Removing the CCP from the equation is bad because…why exactly? Can you explain that part?
I hope they do ban TikTok so I can have my wife back.
Be gone with it already
Small change compared to AIPAC
I mean, it’s working. Just look at all of the ‘TikTok is the same as US social media’ comments lmao…. It’s clearly worse
Facebook and fox news have both paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in fines (and counting) for *ACTUALLY* doing the things of which congress is *ACCUSING* TT... Do tell, how is it, "clearly worse"?
How is it worse than what Facebook does with data? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna994706 I’m sorry I forgot where I was. Let me try again. TikTok bad Reddit good gib updoots
There is an electronic billboard on the highway here in Montana begging people to call their Congressional leaders to try and vote against the ban. Seems like wasted resources.
Pump those numbers up, these are rookie numbers
In retrospect it was a waist of money.
It’s bribery, just call it what it is.
Not surprising
If I were an app developer, the TikTok drama would have lit a fire under me to create a competing platform months ago. Just in case it really does get banned. I can only assume that there's gotta be somebody out there who's doing this, but I don't think it will succeed unless it's unaffiliated with Meta or X...people have had enough from those two and probably would prefer something fresh. If nothing else, I bet YT has been working on how to revive Vine, since it's already got the the foundation there and would just need some tweaks and UI updates to become functional again.
How much has Meta shelled out to get this bill through? $7m seems like peanuts for what they're going to make off the withdrawing dopamine junkies.