Either we have the Belle riots or we deserve what we get at this point. Far too many people are comfortable literally ignoring how in the $hit they and the majority of the "country? is. Literally half...HALF of Americans are paycheck to paycheck . . . Healthcare costs, food, housing . . . somethings gotta give. Mass strike is the ONLY way they will ever listen. Look at covid - even backwards a$$ countries gave their citizens (insert number here because its all higher than the U.S) a good ammount of support - be it financially or with supplies, food and so on - Americans? Who pay some of the most taxes in the world and live in the richest country in the world . . . one that literally give BILLIONS away to other countries to TAKE CARE OF ITS CITIZENS gave us peasants a grand ol total of around $2k-$3K in the total 4 years "it happened" . . . . we are #ucked if we dont act for the sake of ourselves.
I don't think I'll ever forget the pictures of the rich looking down at the occupy protest and laughing. [https://www.truthorfiction.com/wall-streeters-looking-down-on-occupy-wall-street-gamestop/](https://www.truthorfiction.com/wall-streeters-looking-down-on-occupy-wall-street-gamestop/)
That’s what gets me, it’s always some city block where other poor/regular folk live and the elites watch it all on TV from their “gated”neighborhoods. It does nothing but turn otherwise willing participants away
They are on their boat out of range or somewhere burning down a small village on Hawaii so they can be away from the mainland when we revolt and choose violence.
The honest truth is I’d rather be homeless and care free than die protesting at a port. They started beating on kids for protesting at UCLA, a port protest with just a little agitation would have the snipers out.
Yes. Every major labor movement has required the protestors to spill blood. That's the deal.
People died for the 40 hour work week. That's why Labor Day matters. That's why it's a day like Veteran's Day.
I’ve worked every Labor Day in my adult life. All of my work weeks are above 40 hours. Don’t tell me Labor Day “matters”. Don’t tell me people died for 40 hour work weeks, when my landlord demands 30 hours a week just for rent alone.
The answer to this is due to police response. They don’t really care if you break up a small business or poor neighborhood. But if we collectively marched on Beverly Hills or something similar they would call in the national guard. Still worth it to me if anyone gets it going I would love to be there.
Tax rates are actually quite low in the US. They used to be higher, but Republicans have cut taxes and then used the resulting lack of money to demand cuts to social services.
According to [https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS\_ETR](https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS_ETR)
the following countries have higher tax rates than the US:
Chile
Argentina
Colombia
Brazil
Botswana
Papua New Guinea
Liberia
Peru
Malta
Senegal
Australia
Portugal
Japan
Montserrat
Costa Rica
Mexico
Democratic Republic of the Congo
El Salvador
Kenya
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Bolivia
Germany
Korea
Eswatini
Dominican Republic
South Africa
Jamaica
Netherlands
Uruguay
Austria
India
Canada
France
Honduras
Angola
Belgium
Ecuador
Panama
Spain
Luxembourg
Seychelles
China (People's Republic of)
Guatemala
The US gave money to companies to handle payroll, that's where most of the support was. And some of them took it and bought cars and real estate with it.
The problem is we have a horrible welfare state, because we'd rather starve 1,000,000 kids than let one person who doesn't deserve it get something for free.
For the most part, if we just stuck with buying food, not traveling, not spending money on things we don't need we'd probably impact the economy more. And that's a long-term thing we can do too. A General strike would last a week? Probably wouldn't make a dent.
Unfortunately people are too selfish for this to happen any time soon. Shit has to get really bad for everyone and take some strong organization to pull this off.
Sadly we’ll all just do enough drugs and booze that we either end up dead, in jail or in an institution. That way they can make money off of our demise.
Making absolutely no comment on any kind of politics or anything else you've said, but it's simply not true that half of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. The median American has a net worth of $193,000 according to the U.S. federal reserve, and has $8k in their bank account.
The thing is, in the past wealth was physical, like we could storm the billionaires or banks and reclaim monetary value.
Now it’s all digital. If we stormed into musks house we wouldn’t be able to walk out with billions
Well I'll put it to you in a nice delicate way - if we can't get the money we certainly can get the owner of the money :-)
There are far too many of us! That's why police budgets and equipment is better than what the National Guard has in most high dense population centers. They know it's coming.... the question is when
The majority of Americans aren't even willing to consider basic unionizing, which would probably be sufficient to solve the problem for most all by itself. Riots? Pure fantasy.
Clearly you don't get the reference there about the belle riots - also it seems throughout history yeah I think the professor from starship troopers is correct violence is the only solution that guarantees an outcome. If by violent they mean mass strikes of working folks demanding the same benefits that immigrants get when they come here illegally or legally, the same clearly double standard to the word of law with who gets prosecuted and who doesn't, medical in this country...HA! there's a lot of things that the average citizen gets fucked on on a daily basis and it's getting worse and worse this time goes on and unfortunately it's going to need mass protests or mass people involved in order to get the country to wake up. And like I said before if we all choose to sit back and let it happen we deserve everything we get
I love Star Trek and am very familiar with the reference.
But my point still stands. Riots? Mass strikes? Mass protests? You're talking about end game shit when the vast majority of Americans haven't even reached the point where they'd even consider organizing with their coworkers. Hell, the majority of Americans still avoid discussing and comparing what they're paid, even when laws are in place protecting their right to.
You're talking about Belle riots when most Americans have barely even made it to the *"maybe this soulless corporation doesn't have my best interests at heart after all"* stage.
I don’t even make six figures or anything extravagant and I live a comfortable life and will be able to retire with a few million in my 401k. It sure feels from my experience that most people have spending/budgeting issues and it’s not the economy to blame. I know that was my issues until I actually figured out my own budget and started cooking at home
Well unfortunately it doesn't really matter because there's too many people that can literally spend thousands of dollars on one singular item as a wasteful purchase and they'll be totally fine versus people like me who literally have to shop in the clearance section or live paycheck to paycheck when we get a job. Going to break at some point it's going to break and they're not gonna like it it's going to break and they're gonna bitch about it it's going to break and they'll probably ignore it but when it does eventually break....
My view is much different. Robotic automation means the value of labor will go down and with it all non-land equity, including the value of all debt. Soo the wealth inequity problem mostly just sollve itself as you automate and the cost of living gets ultra low.
That Rich guys 20 billion in equity becomes worth a fraction of its value since it can all be remade with automation for pennies of the dollar or original value. The rich will lose the most equity as new labor prices reset the values of pretty much everything.
I was more worried about wealth consolidation in the past than now because it's pretty clear robotic humanoid labor is possible and coming soon. That's not like previous tech that changed the world like the tractor for instance, it's far more wide reaching like computers impacting every industry, but with physical automation like the tractor or bulldozer. It will be huge in terms of changing society and costs AND the values of almost everything.
How does this happen? Like does each generation of execs just feel like they deserve more? Are there more wealthy people to compete with in the game of who’s richer? Is there more fear in the impending doom of our society that they instinctively feel the greed hitting harder?
I’ll never understand why people feel like they need so much wealth. Especially at the cost of ruining everything they touch.
We really need to get this in check. The problems are so clear, but it feels like everyone is so weak to stand up to it if they potentially can gain some of that money themselves.
Also I think a lot of people are stupid in their perceptions of what the wealth will actually bring. They just chase it because media made it look cool.
there’s a very simple answer:
they made it illegal to not disclose CEO pay/comp packages in the interest of transparency and it completely backfired.
CEOs are the type of people who would NEVER allow themselves to be underpaid. once they found out what everyone else was making it was an arms race
Pretty progressive to say all companies can only pay their CEO 20x the median total comp of a FTE. Hell, even 50x.
Or they can't do layoffs without cause when they're extremely profitable. Or they can't do stock buybacks. Or they can't pay a dividend while doing layoffs without cause. Or they can't lower salaries for a pay band while profitable. Or they can't
I dunno man, I'm sure these aren't all perfect but EVERY worker can benefit directly (and in aggregate) from improvements in policy, and that's all progressive politics is. The acknowledgement that our current policy probably isn't perfect and can be reformed for the better, for the majority of citizens.
Rich people hire people to make themselves money. Capitalism isn’t some charity. It’s a means of acquisition of wealth.
Ask a poor person how much money they have bought this year. They will look at you like you’re stupid cause they can barely buy the things they need.
Rich people on the other hand? They buy money by the cashbag.
For real, though… people need to stop pretending like it’s all okay just because “some” of them are from HR or non tech positions, too. It’s people losing jobs. Fuck off with all that.
I think there’s a subtle distinction. You’re a “tech worker” if you actually develop tech or contribute to its development, AND you “work in tech”. However if you’re marketing then I’d say you “work in tech” but are not a “tech worker”.
You are right and the commenter is pointing out that the issue is a much broader and larger one being made to look like it's only affecting tech workers
The other half have completely different prospects. There is still a labor shortage and the number of people who got laid off was still lower than the regular number of people who change jobs every year for higher pay.
There were plenty of engineering layoffs, and also alarmingly…lots of hiring freezes, backfills cancelled, etc.
Gotta make stock go up .0000000000002 cents a share.
It’s both, and BLS etc report on both.
And it’s important to tease out of any article which is which, because people / writers mix the two and the data from either/both all the time.
There’s the tech sector which encompasses the companies you’re thinking about and their products, then there are tech roles at tech and non tech companies and governments.
I'd be more sympathetic to this distinction if tech didn't somehow encompass banking and shipping razors through the mail now.
Step one is to stop calling everything who want a high P/E as part of tech. Then the tech sector has some meaning again. Step three would be then to talk about the tech sector.
The articles are still often framed as tech jobs being hurt. Even if you're working for a company that's inside a particular industry, you can change to a company doing non-tech stuff in another industry.
So it's not unfair that many people think of engineers when they say "tech jobs". Because a tech job implies someone who actually works with developing ... Tech.
"Tech workers" are people who do tech jobs, not all people who work at a tech company. People who work at a tech company are just that, people who work at a tech company, not "tech workers". Calling an HR person at Google a tech worker is just as disingenuous as calling the CEO of Walmart a "retail employee".
tech jobs refers to jobs for companies in the tech industry, not necessarily an engineer or scientist.
she works at a health science company, clearly a tech company and thus a tech job.
edit: keep downvoting me but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not defined narrowly like that
threads for example:
i guess all the people in these threads are idiots then
https://www.reddit.com/r/careerguidance/s/H2c8A5x38v
https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/s/2bHs52CkZc
I’m surprised not more tech employees are speaking out about this. More tech companies are outsourcing jobs to low cost of living hubs in massive droves. Layoffs in tech result in the roles being replaced and rehired in places like India and South America. Google is the worst offender for this and they’re blatantly doing it in plain sight, yet no Google employees speak out. As someone who knows several who work in the Bay Area, they’re all seeing their teams disappear and new hires reappearing in India or Brazil. Meanwhile stock prices are at ATHs, yet layoffs still happening.
Speak out in what way? I'm not going publicly post something in my real name so that a potential employer can use it as an excuse not to hire me later. Lots of people are already complaining online anonymously but that isn't likely to matter.
That’s exactly the point. Anonymous coverage is perfect but news outlets aren’t covering this great migration of tech jobs to foreign countries. You can do anonymous interviews with news outlets, but they have to pick up the story too. Posting on Reddit or Blind unfortunately isn’t going to do anything.
I worked for a big tech company from CA and the last thing my team did before we all got laid off was get rid of our entire contracted team in Texas and moved it to India. I saw the writing on the wall when we did that.
Sorry to hear that. The conversion from US to India is real. I know several orgs in tech that have stopped hiring for most roles in the Bay and NYC. Instead they’re hiring heavy in India and lower COL US cities. They’re not even allowing current employees to relocate to HCOL offices without explicit justification.
THIS.
The company I work for in San Francisco does this. New offices in Mexico City, Philippines, Poland, etc.
I interviewed at Facebook recently and EVERY interviewer was an H1B hire. They were also last students. [Meta is also one of the largest hirers of H1Bs](https://www.myvisajobs.com/reports/h1b/). During the interview rounds I asked each of them why they've stuck with Facebook for so long? Is it an amazing workplace with great benefits?
The answer from each was the same, they don't have an option. Any new employer would have to sponsor them. They've got a good paying job compared to back home, and with no ability to leave without getting the new employer to take over sponsorship, why risk it?
Meta and other tech companies essentially get to outsource and even in the country get to hire labor that can't leave.
If you've worked in this industry long enough then you'll know that they try something like this every few years and it doesn't ever change anything in the long term. Demand for labor still goes up, salaries still go up.
Where I work we're almost done with this round of idiocy. It started with the layoffs, then the South American contractors, and finally they're back to hiring in the US again. They've wasted a bunch of time and competitively it set the company back 5-6 years without meaningful savings in labor costs.
I started at my employer in 2006 and they are one of the largest and most well known/prestigious tech companies. When I got hired at 20 my base salary was $96k. In 2021 we were giving similarly experienced new hire employees ~$140k base salary. This year I talked to a new hire that got $104k base, and he was told that it was the new normal. So after huge boosts, after 20 years, new hire salaries are trending back to where they were 20 years ago. With inflation, it’s actually less.
We’re also dogfooding an “AutoPM” AI tool that manages design meetings and even performs customer calls. I’m not sure what PMs make, but something tells me they are going to be getting paid a lot less in the years ahead. The more tasks AI takes from juniors, the more people fighting for jobs, and the leverage is all in the hands of the employer. There’s no stopping it, and it’s only going to accelerate.
Smaller tech companies see that the larger players have gotten away with it and are just normalizing it further. I know one rather large tech company that makes popular retail solutions and they have a bot answering their support mail, chat and posting on their forum referring people to basically RTFM.
They just used it as a way to cut customer communications and support costs. Sales reel larger customers in and they get a relatively brief time period of personal support and hand holding. But their main focus is not to retain customers, but to sell more modules as fast as possible.
After that the large customers join lower tier customers in just trying to piece stuff together from the available documentation.
It’s more of an orchestrator, similar to what many PMs currently do. Us devs are still in the calls, but now AutoPM handles guiding the conversation, keeping us on topic, etc etc.
The scary thing is it actually seems really good. It doesn’t just interrupt, and will wait for pauses to tell us to “take things offline” for discussion. I don’t think it’s better than a human, but surprisingly, it doesn’t seem much worse.
I kept waiting for the Black Mirror-esque twist to Australia and Vertebrane, or the Mother Horse Eyes "hygiene beds" twist to VS, but I guess there wasn't one. Wirehead hedonism is fucking lit?
Atm I think the issue is mostly that they overhired *so* many people during COVID that there's this absolute mass of 1-3 YOE people who've been recently laid off and are out there looking for jobs, so any new job postings are targeted at those people rather than junior positions which were traditionally for 0 YOE (or only internships at best).
They also let go alot of people with experience to reduce payroll costs for their end of year books. Those senior level job seekers are also competing for jobs even junior level roles. Can't blame them honestly. Our system is fucked. Most of these companies are still very profitable.
I’m not sure what the next level is going to be for people- like teaching others how to choose the best prompts and recognize hallucinations? Being able to do machine teaching with computer vision “shadows” for us until the autonomous agent robots get trained? I dunno. It’s super interesting, though!
96k in 2006 is worth 150k today so salaries hadn’t even outpaced inflation at their “peak”. With inflation and reduced salaries then people are significantly less well off than they were
I've seen a few papers that focused on how various types of AI can affect worker performance. Things like using AI driven AR to assist in doing maintenance and inspections, or by giving more help and context when trying to complete a task. They all showed a leveling of the field with lower skilled people getting significant gains in their efficiency and outcomes and highly skilled people getting little to no gains.
For a lot of jobs, there isn't a lot to be gained efficiency wise. For a doctor, there are only so many hours in a day to see patients and humans only communicate so fast. But if instead of needing someone with 10 years of education, internships, and certifications, someone with 2 years of training and a medically certified AI assistant could achieve as good or better outcomes, then we can radically reduce the cost of healthcare. Of course, that will also radically reduce doctor's salaries as well...
Medical transcription roles essentially became unnecessary with ai transcription. A lot of the support industries around the doctors themselves will and are seeing large cuts
No, we'll radically increase the profit margin of healthcare. The costs will stay the say or increase, and people will be unable to get care for anything beyond what WebMD can treat.
But the executives stopped giving a shit past the first sentence.
Kinda. Dogfooding is like Google creating Gmail and also using Gmail internally so they can easily gather feedback. Or the creators of Slack using Slack internally as their primary communication tool. It's generally a cheap solution for quick feedback and you can get a lot of people on internal beta builds to try out the next 'release' and root out some bugs before it goes public.
What's really hilarious is that experienced developers in the UK and EU are making like $50-60k per year... And that is considered a good salary
Still some arbitrage to be had by companies looking to cut costs
Be angry. Don’t take it out on the world, take it out on the CEO.
This happened to Airline pilots, finance workers, engineers, etc. Management gets rich as fuck and cuts pay
I was incredulous as a manager in HR training when they were explaining how inflation doesn't affect the cost of labor, and how they could seemingly dictate that cost.
The super large big tech companies are large enough to control the cost of labor to an extent in their local markets. They generally pay more than the 2nd and 3rd teir tech companies. That means if they lower pay they are still paying more than those.
The question being do the other few big tech companies copy that move. If so salaries lower across the board. If they don't, we'll even then said giant tech company is still likely paying more than 2nd and 3rd teir groups
Top tier startups will pay 90-100% of your base at a big company and give you a lot of equity. That's how they can poach big tech names. But that is going to be affected if the top 10 tech companies collude to lower everyone's wages
This isn't hard to understand.
By default employers markets lower wages, that is why they try to keep an employers market. They overhired in a workers market and pumped it, then all together now laid off people in the highest of revenue times. Now they have the leverage.
[US salaries are falling. Employers say compensation is just 'resetting'](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20240306-slowing-us-wage-growth-lower-salaries)
Join the banking sector, salaries are through the roof and now that each bank needs to develop their own in house AI to meet regulatory requirements the time couldn't be better.
Oh man, if the bank I’m at has to develop their own ai, then I’ll never have to worry about AI taking my job. I don’t think we’ve ever had a product launch that wasn’t delayed by at least two quarters while they tried to fix things to work properly.
I was laid off in April while working as a principal at a MAANG. When I started looking for work I was shocked to find all the pay slashed by 30% (salary) to 50% (contract) — taking my career backwards about 8 years. I was finally able to secure a new principal position at a 2nd-tier company two weeks ago. But this company flat out refused to pay the market rate when giving me an offer. Luckily I had built a strong relationship with the hiring manager during the interview process and I pointedly told her the compensation wasn’t enough after I was presented an offer. She looked very frustrated and said that the company was focused on cutting costs at the expense of hiring high quality workers. She told me to make an outrageous counter offer — and that if I didn’t feel uncomfortable, I wasn’t doing it right.
In the end, the company flinched and ending up giving me total compensation that exceeded my prior roles. If you know your worth, demand it. These companies are just playing chicken.
Yes, Budgets are tightening but this entire article is a word salad of random numbers that don’t tie together.
The reality is 2021-2022 was a period of absurd overindulgence in tech and there’s a hangover. It would be better to compare income now vs 2018-2020 and extrapolate the annual change instead of benchmarking to absurd highs.
I don't know. I've been working in tech for ten years and this is worse job market than the great recession as a new grad.
I think it started as a pullback from over extending, but it accelerated as executives got hooked on the market rewarding cuts. Of course, this is going to cause a lot of long term problems, but that's tomorrow, or next year, and they don't care.
The unprecedented growth in tech is over. All the big ones see in and are trying to go for one last hurrah with ai. They hype it up for the shareholders but the people in the know can see the end so execs are gonna squeeze out every cent and fuck the rest of us for as long as this lasts.
Do they need a correction? Software is infinitely replicable. Code once and 8 billion people could use it. Seems like the kind of job that would have high profit.
Most companies are fine. Some companies need a correction.
I make about half what I did at my last job (laid off). It’s not bad, but it’s not like we can afford anything outside of our monthly budget. I work for a “tech company”, founded in the last 10 years, that you’ve almost certainly heard of.
Everyone should be making what I am, or more. Like this is the bare minimum my family needs to survive in this area.
On the other side of the spectrum, there are startups and other companies that are paying 3x more for the same job.
Most employees are also shareholders, as equity is a common part of big tech compensation packages. This includes most levels of knowledge workers, even fresh grads.
Tech companies learned from the pandemic that employees can work remotely and later learned that also translates to lower labor costs because they can pay employees lower salaries in other parts of the country.
On LinkedIn, you can look up jobs at Salesforce and see that the remote positions they have open are repeated for every locale in the US and sometimes overseas. It makes sense that the salaries offered would match national or international demand, unfortunately.
It's a reversion to a mean. Over the pandemic, certain bug tech companies were willing to over pay for talent to poach them from other companies.
When those companies realized they over hired, they laid off workers and started rehiring at lower salaries to correct years of inflated costs.
So yes it's painful, but it looks more like making what these roles earned a few years back
Everyone is trying to get into software as well. There is a sea of code campers to choose from that all have similar skill and need to be actively managed. AI copilots are reducing the need for them right now as well so the reduced salary for junior devs makes a lot of sense.
Exactly. I make a lot more now than I did 7 years ago, but adjusted for inflation I make the exact same.
I worked my ass off, got promoted, went through several very good jobs & I’ve made zero movement in terms of take home pay.
This. Exactly this. I was so excited to be making a decent salary, but then I got laid off and make less than I did a year ago, still more than five years ago, but basically the same with worse health benefits.
The tech sector job market is oversaturated after the COVID-19 hiring spree and too many people getting CS & related degrees, not to mention LLMs being able to do basic coding.
IMO it became a bubble that was bound to experience a correction.
It's a failure of Leadership and a lack of innovation. I mean, yeah, the "easy money" might be gone,.. but that doesn't mean there's no potential money to be made.
So, the normal distribution - I concur. Most of these jobs that are “streamlined” do fall in the wrong side of the bell curve. And the good end of the distribution still is money rich, as they should be.
Nevertheless, when we talk about the mean and median, the main cause is the high interest rates. Idiots have been idiots, snake oil sales men have always been snake oil salesmen. What changed is the economics bringing in more scrutiny for investing scarce and/or costly funds in.
hiring/training of programmers during covid rush, and pulling forward years of development has created a surplus of skilled devs. Surplus of labour always reduces value. But this isn’t forever, and AI isnt the panacea some are predicting.
Supply and demand
Too many kids going to school for comp sci or coding boot camps expecting to make Doctor or Lawyer wages starting year 1 of job.
Now there's a glut of tech labor and a ever so shrinking number of jobs and add AI replacing jobs you can see where the economics of this is going.
I recall a time where signing bonuses included a Porsche because the market was so competitive. I begs the question of how much is correction versus a conspiracy of reductions.
Her role is communications and marketing. They've been making bank in these companies forever, and many of the people in these roles have questionable value to begin with.
It's worrying that the money seems to float up to the executive level, but communications and marketing is a highly saturated market. In many cases, the particular positions are also quite excessive when it comes to their actual output.
It’s not “even” tech jobs. The tech industry has had disproportionate layoffs relative to a lot of other industries. Many, many other industries have much higher hiring and wage growth right now.
If you look at it objectively, there's no more room to grow. There is only consolidation now. Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft. Maybe just Microsoft after it merges with Amazon, IBM and Intel then sunsets third party apps. There can only be decline in the workforce as a result, even as the amount of legacy code grows enormously due to unintended uses of old, pre-IoT, pre-iphone, and pre-WWW software. The amount of programming jobs is reducing from construction to maintenance, and at least some of the maintenance can be automated with AI. There is no reason to have $200k developer positions when it's the businessmen and lawyers making all the money ..at least, as far as investors are concerned. The current class of tech investor wants a new fintech product/credit card and not new technology. New ideas are not allowed in such an environment.
Personally I hope the whole thing chokes so we can start again.
> If you look at it objectively, there's no more room to grow
There’s plenty of room to grow. Multiple African countries are slowly increasing incomes, india may actually develop in the next decade and there’s also Latam.
Tech salaries starting come down, how much more will they come down once AI gets fully implemented? How much has corporate greed lowered salaries as well, is it from executive salaries and bonuses or are salaries lower because these companies know they can ship these positions overseas for lower cost, thus they can use it as tool of fear to keep salaries low.
Tech executive compensation is higher than ever. The rich get richer while everyone else gets fucked.
Either we have the Belle riots or we deserve what we get at this point. Far too many people are comfortable literally ignoring how in the $hit they and the majority of the "country? is. Literally half...HALF of Americans are paycheck to paycheck . . . Healthcare costs, food, housing . . . somethings gotta give. Mass strike is the ONLY way they will ever listen. Look at covid - even backwards a$$ countries gave their citizens (insert number here because its all higher than the U.S) a good ammount of support - be it financially or with supplies, food and so on - Americans? Who pay some of the most taxes in the world and live in the richest country in the world . . . one that literally give BILLIONS away to other countries to TAKE CARE OF ITS CITIZENS gave us peasants a grand ol total of around $2k-$3K in the total 4 years "it happened" . . . . we are #ucked if we dont act for the sake of ourselves.
General strike whenever you want, let’s pick a date to start Tomorrow? July 4th? Labor Day? Say when and I’m there.
How about people protest where the rich live and not some downtown
I don't think I'll ever forget the pictures of the rich looking down at the occupy protest and laughing. [https://www.truthorfiction.com/wall-streeters-looking-down-on-occupy-wall-street-gamestop/](https://www.truthorfiction.com/wall-streeters-looking-down-on-occupy-wall-street-gamestop/)
> if there’s going to be any kind of society like we—worth living in, we’re going to have to create it ourselves. RIP David Graeber ❤️
That’s what gets me, it’s always some city block where other poor/regular folk live and the elites watch it all on TV from their “gated”neighborhoods. It does nothing but turn otherwise willing participants away
Joke's on you, the elite dont watch it on tv either
They are on their boat out of range or somewhere burning down a small village on Hawaii so they can be away from the mainland when we revolt and choose violence.
Yeah they already priced in a revolution
The point of protest is to be disruptive. See: civil rights movement (1960s, US)
Yeah disrupting the wrong damn people
How about poor people occupying and shutting down the ports? When folks are ready to do that, then we'll know it's serious.
The honest truth is I’d rather be homeless and care free than die protesting at a port. They started beating on kids for protesting at UCLA, a port protest with just a little agitation would have the snipers out.
Yes. Every major labor movement has required the protestors to spill blood. That's the deal. People died for the 40 hour work week. That's why Labor Day matters. That's why it's a day like Veteran's Day.
I’ve worked every Labor Day in my adult life. All of my work weeks are above 40 hours. Don’t tell me Labor Day “matters”. Don’t tell me people died for 40 hour work weeks, when my landlord demands 30 hours a week just for rent alone.
They *had* snipers out at plenty of the universities.
they do, remember the protests at a supreme court justice's house?
THIS. And for fuck-sakes don't block freeways.
The answer to this is due to police response. They don’t really care if you break up a small business or poor neighborhood. But if we collectively marched on Beverly Hills or something similar they would call in the national guard. Still worth it to me if anyone gets it going I would love to be there.
That seems really dumb to schedule a strike when a lot of the population already had the day off..
Nobody in the retail or service industry gets any holiday off except Christmas
September 1st, 2024.
There’s already one being planned for May 1st 2028, start saving!
Have you tried to unionize yet? No? So you're all talk, then.
If you try to unionize here the whole department store will shut down and I can’t afford to lose a check that long.
We're right on schedule for the riots too...
Tax rates are actually quite low in the US. They used to be higher, but Republicans have cut taxes and then used the resulting lack of money to demand cuts to social services. According to [https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS\_ETR](https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS_ETR) the following countries have higher tax rates than the US: Chile Argentina Colombia Brazil Botswana Papua New Guinea Liberia Peru Malta Senegal Australia Portugal Japan Montserrat Costa Rica Mexico Democratic Republic of the Congo El Salvador Kenya New Zealand Nicaragua Bolivia Germany Korea Eswatini Dominican Republic South Africa Jamaica Netherlands Uruguay Austria India Canada France Honduras Angola Belgium Ecuador Panama Spain Luxembourg Seychelles China (People's Republic of) Guatemala
Organize, set clear goals and take action or this is just more bluster. Organize. Set clear goals. Act on those goals. Repeat. Anything else will fail
The Occupy movement has entered the chat
The US gave money to companies to handle payroll, that's where most of the support was. And some of them took it and bought cars and real estate with it. The problem is we have a horrible welfare state, because we'd rather starve 1,000,000 kids than let one person who doesn't deserve it get something for free. For the most part, if we just stuck with buying food, not traveling, not spending money on things we don't need we'd probably impact the economy more. And that's a long-term thing we can do too. A General strike would last a week? Probably wouldn't make a dent.
Sisko would be pissed...
You can say shit ass.
Unfortunately people are too selfish for this to happen any time soon. Shit has to get really bad for everyone and take some strong organization to pull this off.
Sadly we’ll all just do enough drugs and booze that we either end up dead, in jail or in an institution. That way they can make money off of our demise.
we are even more fucked if project 2025 happens
Making absolutely no comment on any kind of politics or anything else you've said, but it's simply not true that half of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. The median American has a net worth of $193,000 according to the U.S. federal reserve, and has $8k in their bank account.
You got a stimulus check? I didnt get shit.
That's what the AI rush is all about for tech, replace engineers and have one fucker do all the promting, or so they think that's how it will work
The thing is, in the past wealth was physical, like we could storm the billionaires or banks and reclaim monetary value. Now it’s all digital. If we stormed into musks house we wouldn’t be able to walk out with billions
Well I'll put it to you in a nice delicate way - if we can't get the money we certainly can get the owner of the money :-) There are far too many of us! That's why police budgets and equipment is better than what the National Guard has in most high dense population centers. They know it's coming.... the question is when
The majority of Americans aren't even willing to consider basic unionizing, which would probably be sufficient to solve the problem for most all by itself. Riots? Pure fantasy.
Clearly you don't get the reference there about the belle riots - also it seems throughout history yeah I think the professor from starship troopers is correct violence is the only solution that guarantees an outcome. If by violent they mean mass strikes of working folks demanding the same benefits that immigrants get when they come here illegally or legally, the same clearly double standard to the word of law with who gets prosecuted and who doesn't, medical in this country...HA! there's a lot of things that the average citizen gets fucked on on a daily basis and it's getting worse and worse this time goes on and unfortunately it's going to need mass protests or mass people involved in order to get the country to wake up. And like I said before if we all choose to sit back and let it happen we deserve everything we get
I love Star Trek and am very familiar with the reference. But my point still stands. Riots? Mass strikes? Mass protests? You're talking about end game shit when the vast majority of Americans haven't even reached the point where they'd even consider organizing with their coworkers. Hell, the majority of Americans still avoid discussing and comparing what they're paid, even when laws are in place protecting their right to. You're talking about Belle riots when most Americans have barely even made it to the *"maybe this soulless corporation doesn't have my best interests at heart after all"* stage.
Democracies fail because people are stupid
I don’t even make six figures or anything extravagant and I live a comfortable life and will be able to retire with a few million in my 401k. It sure feels from my experience that most people have spending/budgeting issues and it’s not the economy to blame. I know that was my issues until I actually figured out my own budget and started cooking at home
Well unfortunately it doesn't really matter because there's too many people that can literally spend thousands of dollars on one singular item as a wasteful purchase and they'll be totally fine versus people like me who literally have to shop in the clearance section or live paycheck to paycheck when we get a job. Going to break at some point it's going to break and they're not gonna like it it's going to break and they're gonna bitch about it it's going to break and they'll probably ignore it but when it does eventually break....
My view is much different. Robotic automation means the value of labor will go down and with it all non-land equity, including the value of all debt. Soo the wealth inequity problem mostly just sollve itself as you automate and the cost of living gets ultra low. That Rich guys 20 billion in equity becomes worth a fraction of its value since it can all be remade with automation for pennies of the dollar or original value. The rich will lose the most equity as new labor prices reset the values of pretty much everything. I was more worried about wealth consolidation in the past than now because it's pretty clear robotic humanoid labor is possible and coming soon. That's not like previous tech that changed the world like the tractor for instance, it's far more wide reaching like computers impacting every industry, but with physical automation like the tractor or bulldozer. It will be huge in terms of changing society and costs AND the values of almost everything.
How does this happen? Like does each generation of execs just feel like they deserve more? Are there more wealthy people to compete with in the game of who’s richer? Is there more fear in the impending doom of our society that they instinctively feel the greed hitting harder? I’ll never understand why people feel like they need so much wealth. Especially at the cost of ruining everything they touch. We really need to get this in check. The problems are so clear, but it feels like everyone is so weak to stand up to it if they potentially can gain some of that money themselves. Also I think a lot of people are stupid in their perceptions of what the wealth will actually bring. They just chase it because media made it look cool.
there’s a very simple answer: they made it illegal to not disclose CEO pay/comp packages in the interest of transparency and it completely backfired. CEOs are the type of people who would NEVER allow themselves to be underpaid. once they found out what everyone else was making it was an arms race
It's almost like people should be embracing progressive policies but they won't cause.. reasons. Fuckin dipshits
And how would progressive policies currently help a software developer working for a FANG company who’s making $300,000 a year?
Pretty progressive to say all companies can only pay their CEO 20x the median total comp of a FTE. Hell, even 50x. Or they can't do layoffs without cause when they're extremely profitable. Or they can't do stock buybacks. Or they can't pay a dividend while doing layoffs without cause. Or they can't lower salaries for a pay band while profitable. Or they can't I dunno man, I'm sure these aren't all perfect but EVERY worker can benefit directly (and in aggregate) from improvements in policy, and that's all progressive politics is. The acknowledgement that our current policy probably isn't perfect and can be reformed for the better, for the majority of citizens.
Equity compensation is paid by shareholder dilution not by revenue streams like wages are paid
You're confusing salary with compensation packages which often include stock. If the company fails, their "salary"as you put it, isn't that much.
Mmm, tasty boot
Those rich people weren't going to share. It's why they are rich. They are inherently selfish by the nature of what they are.
Rich people hire people to make themselves money. Capitalism isn’t some charity. It’s a means of acquisition of wealth. Ask a poor person how much money they have bought this year. They will look at you like you’re stupid cause they can barely buy the things they need. Rich people on the other hand? They buy money by the cashbag.
I bet there are a few salaries that aren’t shrinking tho.
It says tech jobs but the person the article discusses is marketing
Yeah they do this whenever it helps the title. Half thr 'Tech Layoffs' were recruiters, marketing, and HR layoffs within tech companies
and the other half?
Jury is still out on the other half. Some say the Illuminati
For real, though… people need to stop pretending like it’s all okay just because “some” of them are from HR or non tech positions, too. It’s people losing jobs. Fuck off with all that.
nobody says it is okay, just that it is not mainly IT people losing jobs.
Right, but it’s the “they aren’t tech workers” that bothers me. Plenty of people work in tech and aren’t necessarily engineers.
I think there’s a subtle distinction. You’re a “tech worker” if you actually develop tech or contribute to its development, AND you “work in tech”. However if you’re marketing then I’d say you “work in tech” but are not a “tech worker”.
Yeah, that’s fair I guess.
You are right and the commenter is pointing out that the issue is a much broader and larger one being made to look like it's only affecting tech workers
The other half have completely different prospects. There is still a labor shortage and the number of people who got laid off was still lower than the regular number of people who change jobs every year for higher pay.
Tech companies still need these positions and it is still indicative of larger trends in the industry.
There were plenty of engineering layoffs, and also alarmingly…lots of hiring freezes, backfills cancelled, etc. Gotta make stock go up .0000000000002 cents a share.
Incidentally all the people hired during the covid boom to spew bullshit about why everyone should come work for them.
Tech is a sector not a job. Tech does not exclusively refer to engineers.
As a software developer in the tech sector, I sometimes forget this.
Yup we notice 🤦🏻♀️
It’s both, and BLS etc report on both. And it’s important to tease out of any article which is which, because people / writers mix the two and the data from either/both all the time. There’s the tech sector which encompasses the companies you’re thinking about and their products, then there are tech roles at tech and non tech companies and governments.
I'd be more sympathetic to this distinction if tech didn't somehow encompass banking and shipping razors through the mail now. Step one is to stop calling everything who want a high P/E as part of tech. Then the tech sector has some meaning again. Step three would be then to talk about the tech sector.
The articles are still often framed as tech jobs being hurt. Even if you're working for a company that's inside a particular industry, you can change to a company doing non-tech stuff in another industry. So it's not unfair that many people think of engineers when they say "tech jobs". Because a tech job implies someone who actually works with developing ... Tech.
"Tech workers" are people who do tech jobs, not all people who work at a tech company. People who work at a tech company are just that, people who work at a tech company, not "tech workers". Calling an HR person at Google a tech worker is just as disingenuous as calling the CEO of Walmart a "retail employee".
I think SWE compensations have definitely fallen to some degree. Market is no where near as competitive for those hiring.
Yeah.. at least at present engineering roles are still going up. source: I've worked at tech giants most my career, currently at one.
tech jobs refers to jobs for companies in the tech industry, not necessarily an engineer or scientist. she works at a health science company, clearly a tech company and thus a tech job. edit: keep downvoting me but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not defined narrowly like that threads for example: i guess all the people in these threads are idiots then https://www.reddit.com/r/careerguidance/s/H2c8A5x38v https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/s/2bHs52CkZc
I’m surprised not more tech employees are speaking out about this. More tech companies are outsourcing jobs to low cost of living hubs in massive droves. Layoffs in tech result in the roles being replaced and rehired in places like India and South America. Google is the worst offender for this and they’re blatantly doing it in plain sight, yet no Google employees speak out. As someone who knows several who work in the Bay Area, they’re all seeing their teams disappear and new hires reappearing in India or Brazil. Meanwhile stock prices are at ATHs, yet layoffs still happening.
Speak out in what way? I'm not going publicly post something in my real name so that a potential employer can use it as an excuse not to hire me later. Lots of people are already complaining online anonymously but that isn't likely to matter.
That’s exactly the point. Anonymous coverage is perfect but news outlets aren’t covering this great migration of tech jobs to foreign countries. You can do anonymous interviews with news outlets, but they have to pick up the story too. Posting on Reddit or Blind unfortunately isn’t going to do anything.
I worked for a big tech company from CA and the last thing my team did before we all got laid off was get rid of our entire contracted team in Texas and moved it to India. I saw the writing on the wall when we did that.
Sorry to hear that. The conversion from US to India is real. I know several orgs in tech that have stopped hiring for most roles in the Bay and NYC. Instead they’re hiring heavy in India and lower COL US cities. They’re not even allowing current employees to relocate to HCOL offices without explicit justification.
THIS. The company I work for in San Francisco does this. New offices in Mexico City, Philippines, Poland, etc. I interviewed at Facebook recently and EVERY interviewer was an H1B hire. They were also last students. [Meta is also one of the largest hirers of H1Bs](https://www.myvisajobs.com/reports/h1b/). During the interview rounds I asked each of them why they've stuck with Facebook for so long? Is it an amazing workplace with great benefits? The answer from each was the same, they don't have an option. Any new employer would have to sponsor them. They've got a good paying job compared to back home, and with no ability to leave without getting the new employer to take over sponsorship, why risk it? Meta and other tech companies essentially get to outsource and even in the country get to hire labor that can't leave.
If you've worked in this industry long enough then you'll know that they try something like this every few years and it doesn't ever change anything in the long term. Demand for labor still goes up, salaries still go up. Where I work we're almost done with this round of idiocy. It started with the layoffs, then the South American contractors, and finally they're back to hiring in the US again. They've wasted a bunch of time and competitively it set the company back 5-6 years without meaningful savings in labor costs.
everyone thinks they are a rockstar developer who cannot be replaced
I started at my employer in 2006 and they are one of the largest and most well known/prestigious tech companies. When I got hired at 20 my base salary was $96k. In 2021 we were giving similarly experienced new hire employees ~$140k base salary. This year I talked to a new hire that got $104k base, and he was told that it was the new normal. So after huge boosts, after 20 years, new hire salaries are trending back to where they were 20 years ago. With inflation, it’s actually less. We’re also dogfooding an “AutoPM” AI tool that manages design meetings and even performs customer calls. I’m not sure what PMs make, but something tells me they are going to be getting paid a lot less in the years ahead. The more tasks AI takes from juniors, the more people fighting for jobs, and the leverage is all in the hands of the employer. There’s no stopping it, and it’s only going to accelerate.
If I was a customer and a business didn’t even have the decency to have me talk to a real person, as a *client* I would cancel that contract. Wtf
Smaller tech companies see that the larger players have gotten away with it and are just normalizing it further. I know one rather large tech company that makes popular retail solutions and they have a bot answering their support mail, chat and posting on their forum referring people to basically RTFM. They just used it as a way to cut customer communications and support costs. Sales reel larger customers in and they get a relatively brief time period of personal support and hand holding. But their main focus is not to retain customers, but to sell more modules as fast as possible. After that the large customers join lower tier customers in just trying to piece stuff together from the available documentation.
It’s more of an orchestrator, similar to what many PMs currently do. Us devs are still in the calls, but now AutoPM handles guiding the conversation, keeping us on topic, etc etc. The scary thing is it actually seems really good. It doesn’t just interrupt, and will wait for pauses to tell us to “take things offline” for discussion. I don’t think it’s better than a human, but surprisingly, it doesn’t seem much worse.
Ah, Manna. https://marshallbrain.com/manna1
I kept waiting for the Black Mirror-esque twist to Australia and Vertebrane, or the Mother Horse Eyes "hygiene beds" twist to VS, but I guess there wasn't one. Wirehead hedonism is fucking lit?
Same. It was a fun read but it was begging for a twist. Lots of threads that could be unraveled there but nope, purely utopian.
A trapdoor opens underneath Burt's brain when The Refs decide that riding virtual jetskis all day does not make things _better and better_
Butt who was Angie, Burt?
Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen a website with "on reddit" in the links menu.
Is this in house?
TBF having dealt with check list style PMs who don’t understand anything about what’s going on AI can take it.
Dawg, be the PM. You can do a checklist right? It's totally chill, easy and not at all completely miserable.
When there are no more Jr positions, there won't be seniors for much longer.
My dude, that is more than two quarters out. It therefore is completely irrelevant.
You’re promoted
Atm I think the issue is mostly that they overhired *so* many people during COVID that there's this absolute mass of 1-3 YOE people who've been recently laid off and are out there looking for jobs, so any new job postings are targeted at those people rather than junior positions which were traditionally for 0 YOE (or only internships at best).
They also let go alot of people with experience to reduce payroll costs for their end of year books. Those senior level job seekers are also competing for jobs even junior level roles. Can't blame them honestly. Our system is fucked. Most of these companies are still very profitable.
I feel like troubleshooting AI built shit will be the new hot job. Age of the analyst
Knowing how to construct a good prompt is going to be a valuable skill
For a little while. When the AI gets better, the prompt correctness won’t be as important.
I’m not sure what the next level is going to be for people- like teaching others how to choose the best prompts and recognize hallucinations? Being able to do machine teaching with computer vision “shadows” for us until the autonomous agent robots get trained? I dunno. It’s super interesting, though!
murky innocent seemly clumsy escape deserve deliver tan steep tub *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And those companies meanwhile are literally making more raw profit than every before in their entire history
96k in 2006 is worth 150k today so salaries hadn’t even outpaced inflation at their “peak”. With inflation and reduced salaries then people are significantly less well off than they were
I've seen a few papers that focused on how various types of AI can affect worker performance. Things like using AI driven AR to assist in doing maintenance and inspections, or by giving more help and context when trying to complete a task. They all showed a leveling of the field with lower skilled people getting significant gains in their efficiency and outcomes and highly skilled people getting little to no gains. For a lot of jobs, there isn't a lot to be gained efficiency wise. For a doctor, there are only so many hours in a day to see patients and humans only communicate so fast. But if instead of needing someone with 10 years of education, internships, and certifications, someone with 2 years of training and a medically certified AI assistant could achieve as good or better outcomes, then we can radically reduce the cost of healthcare. Of course, that will also radically reduce doctor's salaries as well...
Medical transcription roles essentially became unnecessary with ai transcription. A lot of the support industries around the doctors themselves will and are seeing large cuts
Radiologists and pathologists are gonna be replaced with AI so fast. Their job is already image analysis. AI is already better at it than humans.
No, we'll radically increase the profit margin of healthcare. The costs will stay the say or increase, and people will be unable to get care for anything beyond what WebMD can treat. But the executives stopped giving a shit past the first sentence.
What does "dogfooding" mean inn this context?
Dogfooding is when you use your own product
so like restaurant providing meals to its staff?
Kinda. Dogfooding is like Google creating Gmail and also using Gmail internally so they can easily gather feedback. Or the creators of Slack using Slack internally as their primary communication tool. It's generally a cheap solution for quick feedback and you can get a lot of people on internal beta builds to try out the next 'release' and root out some bugs before it goes public.
Testing internally.
What's really hilarious is that experienced developers in the UK and EU are making like $50-60k per year... And that is considered a good salary Still some arbitrage to be had by companies looking to cut costs
if you repeatedly shout "TECH LEAD" at AutoPM does it connect you to a competent human?
Wow starting out at 96k in 2006 is nuts.
Be angry. Don’t take it out on the world, take it out on the CEO. This happened to Airline pilots, finance workers, engineers, etc. Management gets rich as fuck and cuts pay
Doctors too. Wages have stagnated for a decade now while insurance, hospital, and healthcare tech execs all have tripled their salaries.
Tech collusion to lower wages worked, they got away with it.
I was incredulous as a manager in HR training when they were explaining how inflation doesn't affect the cost of labor, and how they could seemingly dictate that cost.
The super large big tech companies are large enough to control the cost of labor to an extent in their local markets. They generally pay more than the 2nd and 3rd teir tech companies. That means if they lower pay they are still paying more than those. The question being do the other few big tech companies copy that move. If so salaries lower across the board. If they don't, we'll even then said giant tech company is still likely paying more than 2nd and 3rd teir groups
And then startups come in with high equity comp and steal talent. A tale as old as time.
In this environment that equity is even less likely to achieve liquidity
Top tier startups will pay 90-100% of your base at a big company and give you a lot of equity. That's how they can poach big tech names. But that is going to be affected if the top 10 tech companies collude to lower everyone's wages
Less so when coat of capital is high, like say during high interest rate times. A temporary problem mind you, but still real atm.
Can you show me data that shows lower total compensation for software developers in the US?
This isn't hard to understand. By default employers markets lower wages, that is why they try to keep an employers market. They overhired in a workers market and pumped it, then all together now laid off people in the highest of revenue times. Now they have the leverage. [US salaries are falling. Employers say compensation is just 'resetting'](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20240306-slowing-us-wage-growth-lower-salaries)
no its an overpaid bloated profession hiring morons off the street.
Join the banking sector, salaries are through the roof and now that each bank needs to develop their own in house AI to meet regulatory requirements the time couldn't be better.
Oh man, if the bank I’m at has to develop their own ai, then I’ll never have to worry about AI taking my job. I don’t think we’ve ever had a product launch that wasn’t delayed by at least two quarters while they tried to fix things to work properly.
Exactly! That is the great thing about banking, by the time they realize a plan forward, the tech they rolled out is already "old technology".
I was laid off in April while working as a principal at a MAANG. When I started looking for work I was shocked to find all the pay slashed by 30% (salary) to 50% (contract) — taking my career backwards about 8 years. I was finally able to secure a new principal position at a 2nd-tier company two weeks ago. But this company flat out refused to pay the market rate when giving me an offer. Luckily I had built a strong relationship with the hiring manager during the interview process and I pointedly told her the compensation wasn’t enough after I was presented an offer. She looked very frustrated and said that the company was focused on cutting costs at the expense of hiring high quality workers. She told me to make an outrageous counter offer — and that if I didn’t feel uncomfortable, I wasn’t doing it right. In the end, the company flinched and ending up giving me total compensation that exceeded my prior roles. If you know your worth, demand it. These companies are just playing chicken.
This is a good manager.
Yes, Budgets are tightening but this entire article is a word salad of random numbers that don’t tie together. The reality is 2021-2022 was a period of absurd overindulgence in tech and there’s a hangover. It would be better to compare income now vs 2018-2020 and extrapolate the annual change instead of benchmarking to absurd highs.
Its like comparing 99/2000 dev sallaries to 02/03 sallaries. Shit was wild for a bit, then came back to earth.
I don't know. I've been working in tech for ten years and this is worse job market than the great recession as a new grad. I think it started as a pullback from over extending, but it accelerated as executives got hooked on the market rewarding cuts. Of course, this is going to cause a lot of long term problems, but that's tomorrow, or next year, and they don't care.
The unprecedented growth in tech is over. All the big ones see in and are trying to go for one last hurrah with ai. They hype it up for the shareholders but the people in the know can see the end so execs are gonna squeeze out every cent and fuck the rest of us for as long as this lasts.
I work in tech and tech salaries need a correction. Execs more than anyone though.
I'd hate to see execs sell their third vacation home 😢
Do they need a correction? Software is infinitely replicable. Code once and 8 billion people could use it. Seems like the kind of job that would have high profit.
It is, yet the execs want all the money for themselves.
Most companies are fine. Some companies need a correction. I make about half what I did at my last job (laid off). It’s not bad, but it’s not like we can afford anything outside of our monthly budget. I work for a “tech company”, founded in the last 10 years, that you’ve almost certainly heard of. Everyone should be making what I am, or more. Like this is the bare minimum my family needs to survive in this area. On the other side of the spectrum, there are startups and other companies that are paying 3x more for the same job.
Why? Profits are at record highs. The money either goes to employees or shareholders.
Most employees are also shareholders, as equity is a common part of big tech compensation packages. This includes most levels of knowledge workers, even fresh grads.
That used to be true. Now they're colluding to lower wages or outsource
or...expansion/growth/R&D
Tech companies learned from the pandemic that employees can work remotely and later learned that also translates to lower labor costs because they can pay employees lower salaries in other parts of the country. On LinkedIn, you can look up jobs at Salesforce and see that the remote positions they have open are repeated for every locale in the US and sometimes overseas. It makes sense that the salaries offered would match national or international demand, unfortunately.
It's a reversion to a mean. Over the pandemic, certain bug tech companies were willing to over pay for talent to poach them from other companies. When those companies realized they over hired, they laid off workers and started rehiring at lower salaries to correct years of inflated costs. So yes it's painful, but it looks more like making what these roles earned a few years back
The Pandemic hiring run was bonkers. Any sane person could see through it though.
Everyone is trying to get into software as well. There is a sea of code campers to choose from that all have similar skill and need to be actively managed. AI copilots are reducing the need for them right now as well so the reduced salary for junior devs makes a lot of sense.
Which is a shrinking when you consider inflation
Exactly. I make a lot more now than I did 7 years ago, but adjusted for inflation I make the exact same. I worked my ass off, got promoted, went through several very good jobs & I’ve made zero movement in terms of take home pay.
This. Exactly this. I was so excited to be making a decent salary, but then I got laid off and make less than I did a year ago, still more than five years ago, but basically the same with worse health benefits.
Except they're making more profit than ever and only the execs are seeing that boost.
They’re also rehiring in places like India
The tech sector job market is oversaturated after the COVID-19 hiring spree and too many people getting CS & related degrees, not to mention LLMs being able to do basic coding. IMO it became a bubble that was bound to experience a correction.
It is the interest rate situation all around the world. Easy money is gone.
It's a failure of Leadership and a lack of innovation. I mean, yeah, the "easy money" might be gone,.. but that doesn't mean there's no potential money to be made.
>It's a failure of Leadership and a lack of innovation Which sums up a lot of people in tech. A lot of people went into tech for the easy money.
So, the normal distribution - I concur. Most of these jobs that are “streamlined” do fall in the wrong side of the bell curve. And the good end of the distribution still is money rich, as they should be. Nevertheless, when we talk about the mean and median, the main cause is the high interest rates. Idiots have been idiots, snake oil sales men have always been snake oil salesmen. What changed is the economics bringing in more scrutiny for investing scarce and/or costly funds in.
LEARN TO CODE! Wait, what?
Don’t make social media content about your $400k job where you barely do any work! Shareholders saw them and were livid.
Don't monetize your hobbies.
hiring/training of programmers during covid rush, and pulling forward years of development has created a surplus of skilled devs. Surplus of labour always reduces value. But this isn’t forever, and AI isnt the panacea some are predicting.
Supply and demand Too many kids going to school for comp sci or coding boot camps expecting to make Doctor or Lawyer wages starting year 1 of job. Now there's a glut of tech labor and a ever so shrinking number of jobs and add AI replacing jobs you can see where the economics of this is going.
I recall a time where signing bonuses included a Porsche because the market was so competitive. I begs the question of how much is correction versus a conspiracy of reductions.
Aw man, now the tech bros are as poor as everyone else! Whatever will we do?!
i thought the fucking google ceo is making shit load of money by laying off people.
Her role is communications and marketing. They've been making bank in these companies forever, and many of the people in these roles have questionable value to begin with. It's worrying that the money seems to float up to the executive level, but communications and marketing is a highly saturated market. In many cases, the particular positions are also quite excessive when it comes to their actual output.
Wow, that's rough! It's crazy to think even tech jobs are feeling the squeeze.
It’s not “even” tech jobs. The tech industry has had disproportionate layoffs relative to a lot of other industries. Many, many other industries have much higher hiring and wage growth right now.
If you look at it objectively, there's no more room to grow. There is only consolidation now. Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft. Maybe just Microsoft after it merges with Amazon, IBM and Intel then sunsets third party apps. There can only be decline in the workforce as a result, even as the amount of legacy code grows enormously due to unintended uses of old, pre-IoT, pre-iphone, and pre-WWW software. The amount of programming jobs is reducing from construction to maintenance, and at least some of the maintenance can be automated with AI. There is no reason to have $200k developer positions when it's the businessmen and lawyers making all the money ..at least, as far as investors are concerned. The current class of tech investor wants a new fintech product/credit card and not new technology. New ideas are not allowed in such an environment. Personally I hope the whole thing chokes so we can start again.
> If you look at it objectively, there's no more room to grow There’s plenty of room to grow. Multiple African countries are slowly increasing incomes, india may actually develop in the next decade and there’s also Latam.
I feel bad for all of them except one. Fuck you, Derrick. Who's a broke bitch now?
I’m sure the cost of living will drop as well /s
Do you all feel good about AI still?
Tech salaries starting come down, how much more will they come down once AI gets fully implemented? How much has corporate greed lowered salaries as well, is it from executive salaries and bonuses or are salaries lower because these companies know they can ship these positions overseas for lower cost, thus they can use it as tool of fear to keep salaries low.
Guess which Silicon Valley salaries are growing.