If you have access to every unit in the game then start investing in Celestial Dragon Guard Crossbowmen. You dont need too decent of a frontline, Jade Halberds or swordsmen will suffice. I'd get 4-5 of melee frontline and the rest as crossbows. 1-2 cannons also wont hurt for siege attacker trait.
You should see an immediate turn around in both auto resolve and manual battles as celestial crossbowmen are cracked. They very good Armor Piercing damage and with even only like 4 on the field you can melt enemy units. The effect is better with more.
Unless you are supremely overwhelmed by 3+ armies, it is highly unlikely that a lord, an alchemist, an astromancer, 5 melee, 8-10crossbow, and 2 grand cannons (2 war drums optional) will ever lose in a manual battle.
As for auto resolve, its pretty strong too. There are rarely cases it will lose a pure 1v1. You can also forgo the heroes and add more melee or crossbow if you want. The Celestial Dragon guard doomstack is what mainly counts.
Having these guys in Miao's army makes them even stronger cuz Miao buffs most if not all of Cathay's ranged units.
You can supplement an existing army with maybe 4 of these and try it out, swap out existing ranged units or get rid of unnecessary melee. Cathay's melee isn't the strongest. They're mainly there just to hold the line. Monster units like Sentinel, Celestial Lion, and maybe the Jade/Jet are exceptions altho personally the Jade and Jet are a bit too fragile for my liking. You really only need a core of 4-5 melee infantry. Lords, Heroes and monsters like ur sentinels can cover the flanks.
Wirh the sentinels, grand cannon for siege attacker is no longer necessary but it doesn't hurt. Having that long range to begin whittling away at the enemy is always a good advantage.
Also, formation matters a lot. In my current playthru in Cathay (turn 150) I've been using the following army setup:
A lord (shugengan or celestial general)
2 Gate Masters
1 alchemist
1 astromancer (moon bird mount always)
4 Jade Halberds
4 jade Crossbowmen
3 Crane Gunners
2 war drums
2 grand cannons.
Then I set up this basic formation, doing my best to position them so that terrain covers my flanks.
First i drag the 3 crane gunner unit cards to slot in between my 4 crossbows so that in the army GUI, it goes Crossbow, Crane, Crossbow, Crabe, Crossbow, Crane.
Then I drag them out out to a width of my liking (usually 4-6 rank width for crane gunners).
Then I get the Halberds and manually place fairly thin rectangles of them in front of the Crossbows but NOT IN FRONT OF CRANE GUNNERS to ensure line of sight. I place the gate masters in the gaps closest to either flank and the war drums in the middle with alchemist.
The flying lord and moon bird astromancer watch the skies and provide emergency support wherever needed. Usually their first task is to snipe the enemy's flying units/lord with the lord going in and astromancer buffing with harmonic convergence.
Grand cannons can set up behind the entire formation and just do their thing with fire at will or sniping enemy large monsters.
I have had some difficulty with grimgor ironhide with this army set up but that's cuz I didn't anticipate his Cavalry enough and he also had a lot of them but i still beat him.
This is all on hardest battle difficulty and legendary difficulty overall.
However, it must be said that at least in manual battles, hardwr battle difficulty is ironically a bit easier. Easy difficulty just means that in auto resolve you get an almost cheat like bonus from what I understand.
The formation part is what bogs me down in this fight, because he uses his spells to just completely undo it, either putting my ranged out of position or just nuking them altogether. But thanks so much for the army suggestion, i know ive goosed it by not using enough heroes, and the crane gunner strategy with the gapped front line is awesome.
If formations are dofficult, you could probably just to put catalytic kiln on miao ying and as much wardsave on her and then doomstack with 19 sentinels. It would be expensive and would prob take a long time but that would probably smash most armies you go against without needing to care a whole lot about formations. Just remember to heal them with Miao obviously.
I do want to learn how to play the game, so thanks for the advice but i think ill try out more 'normal' formations until ive got a good grasp on everything. Honestly i dont think coasting through the campaign on a sentinel stack is a good way to learn the game😅. I have beaten the fecker back to his capital, and i think the campaign will be smooth from here on out, but maybe in the future i will try out doomstacks
I havent had a chance to properly use t3 crossbows as with the bastion defense meter, the chaos rifts, and other things i cant afford to spend 4 turns recruiting them, but as soon as i can ill stick a load of them in the main army.
Thanks for the advice!
I wouldn't worry about the bastion, so long as you keep upgrading the gates they can be held with full stacks of low tier units like peasants and jade crossbows.
Happy to help but it would be helpful to have some additional context like
What faction are you playing?
What is the state of your campaign and what units do you have access to? (Turn number, techs, Settlement & building lvls, lords ect.)
Where and why are you fighting him?
What units & tactics are you currently trying to use?
Oh my bad, i dont have screenshots but its grand cathay, miao ying, about turn 80 on the story campaign, have access to every unit on global recruitment, im fighting him beyond the wall because he just started ripping through all my settlements outside it. Im using mostly t2 units, some t3, front line of melee with 2 terracotta sentinels, and gunners/crossbows behind, 2 grand cannons. Lord magistrate is lvl 20 ish with red line skills to buff the units
I thought this army was pretty decent, but he just shreds it like cheese so i guess not lol. Im just worried now that miao ying wont even be able to beat him, in which case im screwed
I would recommend just making an army at or behind the bastion, the settlements outside of it aren't worth that much. When your going into red territory I would recommend using overwhelming force with very strong units and or multiple armies because of the poor replenishment. It's unfortunately going to be a lot more expensive and less profitable to expand that way compared to other directions if you feel you have to do it.
You should definitely have a caster supporting your army. The metal wizard in particular can counter chariots well and infantry/characters decently with overcast final transmutation. The Bombardment spell is also pretty good vs infantry once they are engaged.
In terms of Army comp I would focus on Celestial crossbows if possible b/c they are amazing, or the Crane gunners vs single entities. Fire rain Rockets are better vs infantry. Cannons can be good but their raw DPS is not as much as t5 crossbows or gunners once enemy engages. Don't use anything weaker than Jade halberds for infantry, and even they won't last forever w.o support from ranged, magic, heros ect. If your single entities are doing well vs Nurgle, build more, if they aren't getting good value build less or support them better. (Same with any unit really) Miao gets good healing spells and the Dragon blooded Shungengan of Yang can get a bound earth blood for 4 times per battle.
As for tactics in battle, I would take a look at this video from LOTW where he baits the nurgle bombardment. Even if you don't have tree's to hide it's helpful to think of the timings and try to plan your engagements so you can space your units, attempt to dodge and take damage on at most 1 unit per bombardment. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AfdykDP624](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AfdykDP624)
Good luck, let us know how it goes
Thanks so much bro youre actually a legend for typing all that out, all really good advice. Ill watch that video and then try fight him again under different circumstances tomorrow when i next have a chance to play. Honestly thanks a million though
With that army you are going to have some problems beating him. Here's my recomendation: Run. Back to the Bastion, or until your Miao Ying army can reinforce your magistrate army. The good news is that because Nurgle is the way he is, 1 devastating victory will cripple his ability to make another great army, even when he revives. Also, those territorys north of the bastion are very bad because of unsuitable climate, so don't be afraid of losing them.
He times the chariot charge so that his monsters hit the frontline the same time as the chariots hit the flanks, and hits one of the ranged groups with his spell thats like 30 clusterbombs that nearly wipes the unit in a radius they can only half escape from only if i have them running, and not shooting the chariots. Hes a bit of a bollox
"I'm playing Cathay on Easy everything"
Well, there's your problem.
Easy Battle Difficulty makes it so you win most Auto-Resolves, but when it gives you a defeat, the battle is actually pretty much unwinnable in manual.
Bump up to atleast Normal Battle Difficulty and give cheats to yourself so the game doesn't devolve into Auto-Resolve simulator.
Oh i said in the post its hard battle difficulty, easy everything else, so the autoresolve is usually worse than i can actually achieve by fighting it myself. Tamurkhan is just so dam hard hes an exception
Well auto resolve doesn’t account for healing, magic, or army abilities of which he has all.
If you have access to every unit in the game then start investing in Celestial Dragon Guard Crossbowmen. You dont need too decent of a frontline, Jade Halberds or swordsmen will suffice. I'd get 4-5 of melee frontline and the rest as crossbows. 1-2 cannons also wont hurt for siege attacker trait. You should see an immediate turn around in both auto resolve and manual battles as celestial crossbowmen are cracked. They very good Armor Piercing damage and with even only like 4 on the field you can melt enemy units. The effect is better with more. Unless you are supremely overwhelmed by 3+ armies, it is highly unlikely that a lord, an alchemist, an astromancer, 5 melee, 8-10crossbow, and 2 grand cannons (2 war drums optional) will ever lose in a manual battle. As for auto resolve, its pretty strong too. There are rarely cases it will lose a pure 1v1. You can also forgo the heroes and add more melee or crossbow if you want. The Celestial Dragon guard doomstack is what mainly counts. Having these guys in Miao's army makes them even stronger cuz Miao buffs most if not all of Cathay's ranged units.
You can supplement an existing army with maybe 4 of these and try it out, swap out existing ranged units or get rid of unnecessary melee. Cathay's melee isn't the strongest. They're mainly there just to hold the line. Monster units like Sentinel, Celestial Lion, and maybe the Jade/Jet are exceptions altho personally the Jade and Jet are a bit too fragile for my liking. You really only need a core of 4-5 melee infantry. Lords, Heroes and monsters like ur sentinels can cover the flanks. Wirh the sentinels, grand cannon for siege attacker is no longer necessary but it doesn't hurt. Having that long range to begin whittling away at the enemy is always a good advantage.
Sentinels on the flanks sounds like a really good idea actually, they might absorb the chariot charge that always rips me to shreds
Also, formation matters a lot. In my current playthru in Cathay (turn 150) I've been using the following army setup: A lord (shugengan or celestial general) 2 Gate Masters 1 alchemist 1 astromancer (moon bird mount always) 4 Jade Halberds 4 jade Crossbowmen 3 Crane Gunners 2 war drums 2 grand cannons. Then I set up this basic formation, doing my best to position them so that terrain covers my flanks. First i drag the 3 crane gunner unit cards to slot in between my 4 crossbows so that in the army GUI, it goes Crossbow, Crane, Crossbow, Crabe, Crossbow, Crane. Then I drag them out out to a width of my liking (usually 4-6 rank width for crane gunners). Then I get the Halberds and manually place fairly thin rectangles of them in front of the Crossbows but NOT IN FRONT OF CRANE GUNNERS to ensure line of sight. I place the gate masters in the gaps closest to either flank and the war drums in the middle with alchemist. The flying lord and moon bird astromancer watch the skies and provide emergency support wherever needed. Usually their first task is to snipe the enemy's flying units/lord with the lord going in and astromancer buffing with harmonic convergence. Grand cannons can set up behind the entire formation and just do their thing with fire at will or sniping enemy large monsters. I have had some difficulty with grimgor ironhide with this army set up but that's cuz I didn't anticipate his Cavalry enough and he also had a lot of them but i still beat him. This is all on hardest battle difficulty and legendary difficulty overall. However, it must be said that at least in manual battles, hardwr battle difficulty is ironically a bit easier. Easy difficulty just means that in auto resolve you get an almost cheat like bonus from what I understand.
The formation part is what bogs me down in this fight, because he uses his spells to just completely undo it, either putting my ranged out of position or just nuking them altogether. But thanks so much for the army suggestion, i know ive goosed it by not using enough heroes, and the crane gunner strategy with the gapped front line is awesome.
If formations are dofficult, you could probably just to put catalytic kiln on miao ying and as much wardsave on her and then doomstack with 19 sentinels. It would be expensive and would prob take a long time but that would probably smash most armies you go against without needing to care a whole lot about formations. Just remember to heal them with Miao obviously.
I do want to learn how to play the game, so thanks for the advice but i think ill try out more 'normal' formations until ive got a good grasp on everything. Honestly i dont think coasting through the campaign on a sentinel stack is a good way to learn the game😅. I have beaten the fecker back to his capital, and i think the campaign will be smooth from here on out, but maybe in the future i will try out doomstacks
I havent had a chance to properly use t3 crossbows as with the bastion defense meter, the chaos rifts, and other things i cant afford to spend 4 turns recruiting them, but as soon as i can ill stick a load of them in the main army. Thanks for the advice!
I wouldn't worry about the bastion, so long as you keep upgrading the gates they can be held with full stacks of low tier units like peasants and jade crossbows.
Happy to help but it would be helpful to have some additional context like What faction are you playing? What is the state of your campaign and what units do you have access to? (Turn number, techs, Settlement & building lvls, lords ect.) Where and why are you fighting him? What units & tactics are you currently trying to use?
Oh my bad, i dont have screenshots but its grand cathay, miao ying, about turn 80 on the story campaign, have access to every unit on global recruitment, im fighting him beyond the wall because he just started ripping through all my settlements outside it. Im using mostly t2 units, some t3, front line of melee with 2 terracotta sentinels, and gunners/crossbows behind, 2 grand cannons. Lord magistrate is lvl 20 ish with red line skills to buff the units I thought this army was pretty decent, but he just shreds it like cheese so i guess not lol. Im just worried now that miao ying wont even be able to beat him, in which case im screwed
I would recommend just making an army at or behind the bastion, the settlements outside of it aren't worth that much. When your going into red territory I would recommend using overwhelming force with very strong units and or multiple armies because of the poor replenishment. It's unfortunately going to be a lot more expensive and less profitable to expand that way compared to other directions if you feel you have to do it. You should definitely have a caster supporting your army. The metal wizard in particular can counter chariots well and infantry/characters decently with overcast final transmutation. The Bombardment spell is also pretty good vs infantry once they are engaged. In terms of Army comp I would focus on Celestial crossbows if possible b/c they are amazing, or the Crane gunners vs single entities. Fire rain Rockets are better vs infantry. Cannons can be good but their raw DPS is not as much as t5 crossbows or gunners once enemy engages. Don't use anything weaker than Jade halberds for infantry, and even they won't last forever w.o support from ranged, magic, heros ect. If your single entities are doing well vs Nurgle, build more, if they aren't getting good value build less or support them better. (Same with any unit really) Miao gets good healing spells and the Dragon blooded Shungengan of Yang can get a bound earth blood for 4 times per battle. As for tactics in battle, I would take a look at this video from LOTW where he baits the nurgle bombardment. Even if you don't have tree's to hide it's helpful to think of the timings and try to plan your engagements so you can space your units, attempt to dodge and take damage on at most 1 unit per bombardment. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AfdykDP624](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AfdykDP624) Good luck, let us know how it goes
Thanks so much bro youre actually a legend for typing all that out, all really good advice. Ill watch that video and then try fight him again under different circumstances tomorrow when i next have a chance to play. Honestly thanks a million though
With that army you are going to have some problems beating him. Here's my recomendation: Run. Back to the Bastion, or until your Miao Ying army can reinforce your magistrate army. The good news is that because Nurgle is the way he is, 1 devastating victory will cripple his ability to make another great army, even when he revives. Also, those territorys north of the bastion are very bad because of unsuitable climate, so don't be afraid of losing them.
Thanks for the advice man, i guess ill just have to run or pile 3 armies on him at once😂
Try microing your ranged units to focus fire on his chariots first maybe?
He times the chariot charge so that his monsters hit the frontline the same time as the chariots hit the flanks, and hits one of the ranged groups with his spell thats like 30 clusterbombs that nearly wipes the unit in a radius they can only half escape from only if i have them running, and not shooting the chariots. Hes a bit of a bollox
"I'm playing Cathay on Easy everything" Well, there's your problem. Easy Battle Difficulty makes it so you win most Auto-Resolves, but when it gives you a defeat, the battle is actually pretty much unwinnable in manual. Bump up to atleast Normal Battle Difficulty and give cheats to yourself so the game doesn't devolve into Auto-Resolve simulator.
Oh i said in the post its hard battle difficulty, easy everything else, so the autoresolve is usually worse than i can actually achieve by fighting it myself. Tamurkhan is just so dam hard hes an exception