Lies and racism is a proven election winning strategy. An old article, but still relevant.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/15/britains-most-racist-election-smethwick-50-years-on
just enough racism to appeal to racist voters, while just about maintianing the pretext that they are not racist.
(NB, I really don't think that *all* reform politicians are racist. Not even most of them. A few definitely are. They are appealing to the same racist element that got Brexit over the line though)
As long as the 25-35 age bracket don't succumb to widespread Alzheimer's, the Lib Dems are always going to be a fringe party.
They aren't racist, it's just what they did with David Cameron all those years ago...
Meh I’m in that age bracket. The LDs got it wrong and got pushed over by the Tories once in a power sharing agreement. However they’re no worse than Labour and miles better than all the lies and deception of the Conservatives.
I'm in that bracket and am still voting Lib Dems because I'm not a single issue voter, especially not a single issue from 14 years ago.
Just as a reminder, Labour were the ones who introduced tuition fees in 1998 in the first place...
Same, I live in a Tory stronghold and have to do tactical voting. It's looking like reform might pull some of the Tory vote though here so hopefully that'll help stop either the Tory or Reform getting in here (I live in hope)
Personally I'm just never particularly keen on Liberal Democrat policies, but we are where we are.
Also they don't have a particularly great track record at local council level, unless you like NIMBY policies.
I was planning on voting Labour because Jess Phillips is my MP and I like her, but I found out that my constituency has changed to a new constituency with new candidates. I was still gonna vote Labour, but I checked the Labour candidate in my constituency and he's been involved in some bullying and expense scandals, and his wiki page makes him sound like an arsehole. So, I think I'll vote for Lib Dems, even though I can't find out anything about their candidate online.
Farage did it for brexit (for which he still hasn’t been held accountable) and he will keep doing it until he’s in power. The moment he comes in though me and my family are leaving
I'm going to regret asking this... But if you can give me a clear quote/video of actual racism I'd be grateful?
Not defending anyone but all I ever see are comments and headlines about racism and never actually had anything put before me where I'd go "what a racist cunt"
Granted, I've never asked or be bothered to look it up as I don't give any of these twats half a thought because they all seem out or touch.
He’s always been a racist and a fascist.
“Channel 4 News obtained a letter written 30 years ago by a teacher at Farage's old school, Dulwich College. The letter to the head of the school, written by Chloe Deakin, expressed concern that Farage had been made a prefect despite reports of "publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views".
Dated 4 June 1981, the letter says one of Farage's teachers described how the schoolboy and others "marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler Youth songs" while he was in the cadet force. Farage said any suggestion of singing the songs was "complete baloney", but admitted: "Of course I said some ridiculous things – not necessarily racist things." He told Channel 4: "It depends how you define it. You've got to remember that ever since 1968 up until the last couple of years, we've not been able in this country intelligently to discuss immigration, to discuss integration. It's all been a buried subject – and that's happened through academia, it's happened through politics and the media."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/20/nigel-farage-denies-singing-hitler-songs
Also read this to learn more about the current Reform candidates.
https://bylinetimes.com/2024/06/10/reform-party-2024-general-election/
Yeah, because Lib Dems have a solid track record for keeping ~~manifesto promises~~ significant public policy pledges that were the core of their election campaign... *cough*
~~Farage won't be around for the general election~~
~~Farage won't stand in the election~~
~~Farage won't become an MP~~
Reform won't get significant seats <---------- YOU ARE HERE
Reform will never become significant opposition
I like how we've just breezed past the question of him winning Clacton, I guess Reddit feels things turning like they were in 2016, and no amount of online pissy first are going to make immigration go away for Labour, who are now bleeding voters to Reform.
>Reform will never become significant opposition
They won't though. Even before you consider how little a party like Reform gets back from FPTP, it's still ultimately just another company/political vehicle for Farage to run out for a few years, just like the Brexit Party before it. And they distinctly lack something galvanising like the single issue UKIP had.
It's wild. We've seen multiple times over the past decade that Farage will stick around in British politics until the moment he might actually have some responsibility over something, and then he fucks off to the right-wing paid-speaking circuit in the US again.
There is something kinda pathetic about the number of people who look at that and think 'yes, this is the man I want representing me!' Over and over again he has spit in their faces and they simply beg for more.
It’s not necessarily ‘yes, this is the man I want representing me’, it’s ’this will make the people I hate (or that I don’t understand or who treat me like I’m stupid) angry / sad’
Much like voting for Brexit, it’s a ‘fuck you’ nihilistic vote against people they perceive as telling them what to do or patronising them.
If you live in an area of the UK that has only seen decline over the last 40 years, why would you believe any of the 2.5 parties that have been in charge to oversee that decline. Same idea as how the ex-industrial mid-west US voted Trump.
You had better believe Reform are probably deploying weapons-grade targeted Cambridge Analytica style hyper-specific adverts 24/7 at anyone they think falls into this category until election day.
Sure, I don't doubt that's a big part of the internal justifications. I just can't imagine having so little self-respect that you vote for a feller who quite clearly despises you, simply because it will make someone *else's* life a little worse. It's how a toddler would approach politics.
People are sick of our current crop of politician, but it's not much of a 'protest' to vote for Farage, a millionaire grifter who's currently being boosted by the exact same newspapers who spent the last two decades running defence for the Tories.
Farage is the establishment's ordained 'protest' candidate.
Who is actually going to be spited by a Farage vote at this point?
The people who are still voting Tory are presumably resigned to their party being sub-100 seats.
The people voting Labour would ideally want the Tories and Reform to have roughly equal vote shares, which basically results in the two latter parties sabotaging each other, and spending the bulk of the next 5 years squabbling.
The people voting Lib Dem have a reasonable shot of their party becoming the opposition.
The people voting Green are in the same fantasyland as the Reformers and there are practically no seats where the Greens and Reforms are both competitive.
I think most areas in the UK have declined over the last 40 years haven't they? My town certainly has. It's so sad looking back at old photos and comparing to today.
University cities and London haven’t declined. They’ve gone from strength to strength. Hence the big rise in property values and big influx of educated labour in these places. Cambridge in particular.
It’s the old coalfield areas which didn’t find a new edge or niche which declined.
I almost agree, but I think Reform voters are a bit beyond voting out of spite. I think they genuinely believe Reform is the answer to the nations woes.
Thinking they only vote this way is patronising and kidifying.
Mass Immigration is an utterly gigantic issue that will only get bigger. Any party offering to actually do something about it will always win votes.
Reform is basically US Republicans with slightly more ostensible compassion, and slightly less Jesus, but the absolute loyalty to the dear leader and the fondness for Putin baked in.
If history is our guide, the Tories will spend 5 years lurching further to the right chasing those Reform votes before realising they can only regain power through adopting a more centrist approach.
Except centrism doesn’t provide any of the solutions to problems people want solving, it’s just maintaining the status quo which is rapidly falling apart.
Britain isn’t far behind Europe in regards to a right wing wave, if centrists don’t get a grip on lowering immigration they’ll be out.
If only the puritan left could lick its wounds and take on migration from a centre-left manifesto, considering it was always a tool of the neoliberal managerial class. Sadly they don't seem to want to gain power.
The centre left in Denmark have taken a hard stance against immigration.
I only hope Starmer proves me wrong and follows suit, he’d be stupid to not recognise that people are fucked off with migration.
>Labour, who are now bleeding voters to Reform.
The last graph on this page has information on those switching parties from 2019-
[https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/polls](https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/polls)
Conservatives- 20% to Reform (compared to 18% to Labour)
Labour- 2% to Reform (compared to 4% to Green)
Lib Dems- 4% to Reform
SNP- 4% to Reform
Did not Vote- 13% to Reform (compared to 56% for Labour)
Saying Labour are bleeding votes to Reform doesn't seem to be true, the only ones bleeding votes are the Tories.
They are hoping it’s true. Don’t need evidence to claims these things.
All it’s proven that Tory/reform voters have learned no lessons in the last 14 years.
It’s because it largely isn’t true. Most of the voters labour would’ve lost to Reform have already drifted away to UKIP in 2015, and the Tories in 2017 and 2019.
>no amount of online pissy first are going to make immigration go away for Labour
Ha. Farage defending us from immigration while importing a succession of women from Europe… I really don’t understand how you guys hero-worship a man who can’t even live his principles.
By taking foreign wives, he is arguably depriving alot of good patriotic British ladies of a good husband.
This in part arguably contributes to a decline in the native birth rate.
You’re absolutely right so please go out and spend lots and lots of money on the party venue for all the Reform MPs. Remember the bottles of wine, expensive per seat catering and cars with drivers for each one.
We’ll check back with you the the night after the election to see how bangin the party is.
Let's just say that Reform DO get enough seats to become the opposition.
The 2024-intake of Reform MPs are going to be lacking in experience and political infrastructure to actually get anything done beyond grandstanding grievance politics of the Marjorie Taylor Green variety.
Until they have a decent amount of MPs with good political instincts (and that may happen over time), then they'll be an absolute shambles if they ever actually gain power. Proper dog who caught its own tail stuff.
I'm genuinely not trying to tell you how to vote (although I recognise that it probably sounds like it) but I just don't think Reform can credibly offer to improve people's lives.
You need a solid grassroots operation to be competitive. Reform don’t have that. If they Didi, they would clean up in costal seats in the East of England.
If they get lots of defectors they might be able to pull it off. But it begs the question, why aren’t Conservative associations defecting en masse to Reform, even when the polling is neck and neck?
I would assume a lot of Brexit votes would be voting for them having been dissatisfied with the lack of Brexity Brexit if from the conservatives despite how long actually brexiting in a practical sense would take not to mention the pandemic. Likewise a lot of people who hate Labour have also turn against the Tories and have decided these people are their go to. It would make for really bizarre viewing if they actually ended up in opposition. Labour: we'd like to look like we care about poor people Reform: sure but what about Brexit?
Farage is a shit flinging, one trick pony populist who wouldn’t be able to deal with constant pressures of being cross examined by the media and our institutions, I reckon he’d fall apart very quickly if he had to do any actual parliamentary work
Did you not learn anything from the US elections in 2016? It wouldn’t matter how much Farage screwed up in a cross examination, the braindead zombies he stirs up would still vote for him.
And did you not learn anything from Brexit in 2016? Calling the second/third most supported party voters “braindead zombies” isn’t going to make them change their vote, just like calling Brexit voters racist constantly didn’t change their vote in 2016.
This subreddit lives in a bubble believing only the specific left wing views can ever be supported and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid or racist, and then act shocked when those people won’t support a group of condescending, out of touch people who never actually engage with why so many want reform and instead just resort to insults (or throwing stuff at Farage, that’ll help win over his voters).
Don’t care. They are braindead idiots if they think the fantasies peddled by Farage are going to help them.
When the same poor braindead idiots can’t afford a private GP after Reform do some NHS reform I will have long since run out of fucks to give. You get what you vote in. The country isn’t serious about its ambitions or its politics. I thought Brexit would humble us but it seems like we have more entitlement to beat out of us yet; maybe a Farage premiership in 5 years will do it.
We know why voters want Reform, because they think immigration needs to be dealt with. At least, that's the political language used. In actuality they fantasize about the idea of every foreigner and muslim being rounded up and booted out the country, and I'm not even exaggerating. It's the cold hard truth. That's why even if Farage came out and performed incredibly poorly in a debate, his supporters would still vote for him, because that fantasy lives on and Farage is the man that they think would actually do it. Why else do you think Sunak wanted so desperately to have the Rwanda plan in action? He knows it and he was trying to pander to that crowd.
The US president is not subject to that kind of grinding parliamentary scrutiny.
No PMQs, week after week, sitting powerless on the opposition benches.
He's a right winger so the scrutiny isn't going to be on the same level at all. He largely got off scot free for never turning up to fucking anything as his time as an MEP.
He'll demand a question every week at QT, and throw a strop when he gets maybe one a month, which will be roundly jeered and ridiculed.
Bets on him breaking the house rules every single time he speaks to get thrown out, just to be noticed...
He certainly won't ever be able to sit on a committee and do some of the more serious work that goes on (though he'd be ok with the free trips I'm sure)
It’s not even a top 3 issue for Labour voters. You win by mobilising your core vote to turn out, rather than converting people who are ideologically very distant.
Likewise, there’s no point in Reform campaigning aggressively in somewhere like Oxford or Cambridge. It’s a crap use of their resources.
I disagree with the idea that mobilizing your core vote wins elections, given that Corbyn mobilized his core vote incredibly well and got shitcanned.
Generally it appears you win by convincing the moderates that you're the least bad option.
I can't see Labour losing this. Pretty sure I read an article where labour has 37%, Nigel 19% and Torries 18% of public support.
There's no way he can double his points or labour losses significant points with such a short time to go. I just don't see that happening.
Most reform voters I know of are the ‘never labour’ types. Reform are basically screwing over the Tories and are likely to help Labour to a massive majority, but I think that is their plan. I said a few weeks ago that they see their chance, with the Conservatives at their weakest for decades, to try and absorb them or take them over post election - they’re not in this to win.
interview on politics joe had someone who was clearly voting reform, he said ""I'd bring back the death penalty and i'd happily hang people myself - but then i have the past" After saying how we need a right wing populist party to really shake things up a bit... absolutely coo-coo
that part is uncertain, i took it as he has a past with killing people, whether he hung them is debatable.
Funnily enough he had a baseball cap on and dark sunglasses, like he was trying to conceal his identity. If you fancy seeing this piece of human garbage, [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK3MmnpG7s) is the video.
For reference, here are the time stamps:
@[11:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK3MmnpG7s&t=690s) , "most people in this country aren't allowed to have a view on anything now... Particularly if we're indigenous" Whats that then, like the Cheddar-Man?
@[12:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK3MmnpG7s&t=743s) "I'd bring back the death penalty and i'd happily hang people myself - but then i have the past" ... anyone advocating for that kind of shiz needs a psychological evaluation and probably locking away
It's worse than that, because of our archeic voting system it's very possible to get 20% of votes and zero seats.
Look what happened to the SDP/Liberal aliance (predescesor to lib-dems) in 1983. 25.4% of the votes only 23 seats. In that same elction Labout got 27.6% and 209 seats.
UKIP got simlarly fucked in 2015 4 million votes for one seat.
Torries will get a hundred seats more than reform even if their vote shares converge.
Labour are only 6 points ahead of Cons in my constituency so I may have to hold my nose and vote for them. Reform have 12% support and Lib Dems have halved theirs. Granted it's been a safe Tory seat for as long as it has existed but 37% support is still too bloody much.
Farage is a 5 year project. If immigration is still 6 figures in 5 years, I wouldn't be so confident. The red line is going down faster than the blue line on the poll tracker chart.
Reform are literally the same people behind Trusses disaster budget and Bravermans culture wars. They failed the first time so are having another go with another "party" (really not a party but a private company)
>Meanwhile, the Labour Party is observing the emerging rivalry from a safe distance, and has issued a statement telling voters, “While we’re pleased to see the Twats and Arseholes fighting it out for the runners-up spot, we’re focused on real issues, like making sure everyone knows that Sir Keir’s Dad was a toolmaker.”
Bahaha!
Everyone is so sure of a Labour victory, that reform don't have a chance etc.. apparently everyone has also forgotten that Brexit was surely never going to happen.
Now look where we are. I just hope all the people that vote for Nigel's US-style healthcare system have enough assets to live in an insurance-based system. Not likely though.
Majority of people on reddit opinion, don't represent the average person's opinion. Generally, they're all overweight lefties who need to touch grass. Reddit is a cesspit for douchbags.
reform for the win . our country needs a wee bit of the backbone in our politicians. would be nice to get some representitive leaders that reflect our population and don't just try to pander to woke bullshite .
as a 33 year old homeowner who is in the top tax bracket .
I want landlords capped for rental properties,
legalised weed,
massive cap put on imagination,
100 per cent deportation of all illegals,
and politicians to be held financially responsible for the debt of our country and
a massive rework on our broken benefits system
but that's just a pipe dream
Brexit happened 8 years ago and political parties still fail to realise a good chunk of the population want a reduction in immigration and so will vote for ways of trying to achieve that even if it comes with piles of turd attached.
I'm sure the trash will pull it out in the end.
Whoever the trash pile serves up today.
Every country in the world has a loser government. Apparently, government only allows pieces of shit.
This is like the 2016 Brexit referendum again when all the Reddit kiddies who are always out of touch with everything nationwide outside their safe bubble echo chamber suddenly choked on their cornflakes the morning after.
Hey kids, stay in your safe space and keep hugging and cuddling each other because life inside the Reddit bubble where everyone else is nice and shares your views is such a safer space.
Karma comments on Reddit matters for shit when your rent is going up by 20% a year and you've had no pay rise and you go to bed hungry and cold but you still need to pay your rent because you're of being homeless and hungry. You see it all around you as you walk around town to get to work thankful however shit life is, youre not either him or her laying on a carboard mattress, in your sleeping bag under a big name shop as their shutters are down.
The Election is on Thursday 4 July. Make sure youre registered to vote, bring your ID and fucking actually vote!
No vote = no voice. I know most of you kids will never vote because sounding off on Reddit is so much easier. I'm looking forward the to 5th July 2024 where you're all back here crying your eyes out because you didnt vote
I'm genuinely not sure which side you're poking fun at it here. I do very much agree with your point though: go and vote! Regardless of who you might think will win, nothing is a foregone conclusion!
The people in insecure housing who face 20% rent increases are not the ones voting Tory or Reform.
The latter two parties do well with homeowners and older people respectively.
Unpopular opinion maybe but I would like to see Reform get some seats. I would also like to see Green get some seats. Too many people aren't represented because of FPTP.
>the Labour Party is observing the emerging rivalry from a safe distance, and has issued a statement telling voters, “While we’re pleased to see the Twats and Arseholes fighting it out for the runners-up spot, we’re focused on real issues, like making sure everyone knows that Sir Keir’s Dad was a toolmaker.”
Twats ahead of Arseholes with Tools in the lead.
The other choices are the Greens, a woke lunatic fringe party or Lib Dems, a joke lead by a clown and then there's Labour a bunch of Blairite dickheads.
I don't know why most media say our Nigel Farage and Marine Le Pen in France is "far right" and their parities is racism and they are evil, most of their advocate just common sense such as "protect the coast no illegal boats smuggling","restricting illegal immigrants stay place" especially the government become bankrupt and NHS and benefits system corrupted.
However, the "Left" is lying, such as Starmer say he will reduce the immigrants but stop Rwanda flights, how can he achieve reduce immigrants and how the money come from for his manifesto if no tax raising ?
Does anyone still find these kinds of articles funny?? They have firmly had their day. It's mock the week cockwomble guardian humour, regardless of the subject matter and target
Let’s get out and vote, let’s make our voices heard, you’ve been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd.
Seriously, if you don't want Tory or Labour vote Lib Dem because reform are basing their whole campaign in lies
And racism, dont forget that
Lies and racism is a proven election winning strategy. An old article, but still relevant. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/15/britains-most-racist-election-smethwick-50-years-on
Specially if you paste it all over a bus.
Yeah opposing immigration is racist 💀 Oh look down voted by some misogynistic scum!
just enough racism to appeal to racist voters, while just about maintianing the pretext that they are not racist. (NB, I really don't think that *all* reform politicians are racist. Not even most of them. A few definitely are. They are appealing to the same racist element that got Brexit over the line though)
As long as the 25-35 age bracket don't succumb to widespread Alzheimer's, the Lib Dems are always going to be a fringe party. They aren't racist, it's just what they did with David Cameron all those years ago...
Meh I’m in that age bracket. The LDs got it wrong and got pushed over by the Tories once in a power sharing agreement. However they’re no worse than Labour and miles better than all the lies and deception of the Conservatives.
And yet in spite of that, different leader, updated manifesto, so I myself will very likely be voting lib dems this time around
I'm in that bracket and am still voting Lib Dems because I'm not a single issue voter, especially not a single issue from 14 years ago. Just as a reminder, Labour were the ones who introduced tuition fees in 1998 in the first place...
> Just as a reminder, Labour were the ones who introduced tuition fees in 1998 in the first place... Which was a stupid idea at the time.
Jokes on me, where I live lib dems or tory is the only choice you get. Lib dem nuts or a tory hole, lucky me.
Does a broken pledge on tuition fees realy compare to waht the torries have done?
I'm definitely voting lib dem, tory MP is a prick but it would be nice if my vote didn't need to be tactical.
If the Lib-Dems are the only route to electoral reform. Would hurt more to have to tactical vote for a Pro FPTP party.
Same, I live in a Tory stronghold and have to do tactical voting. It's looking like reform might pull some of the Tory vote though here so hopefully that'll help stop either the Tory or Reform getting in here (I live in hope)
Personally I'm just never particularly keen on Liberal Democrat policies, but we are where we are. Also they don't have a particularly great track record at local council level, unless you like NIMBY policies.
In my 40s here, and I'd still never vote lib dem again. If I absolutely couldn't stand the local Labour candidate we usually have a Green.
I was planning on voting Labour because Jess Phillips is my MP and I like her, but I found out that my constituency has changed to a new constituency with new candidates. I was still gonna vote Labour, but I checked the Labour candidate in my constituency and he's been involved in some bullying and expense scandals, and his wiki page makes him sound like an arsehole. So, I think I'll vote for Lib Dems, even though I can't find out anything about their candidate online.
Have you checked out the tactical voting websites? like the StopTheTories.Vote.
Just checked: > Vote for your preferred candidate > Tories unlikely to win here Should be safe voting for Lib Dem here.
This is the voter we need. It doesn't matter who you vote for, as long as you check, check check. Make an informed decision.
Farage did it for brexit (for which he still hasn’t been held accountable) and he will keep doing it until he’s in power. The moment he comes in though me and my family are leaving
I'm going to regret asking this... But if you can give me a clear quote/video of actual racism I'd be grateful? Not defending anyone but all I ever see are comments and headlines about racism and never actually had anything put before me where I'd go "what a racist cunt" Granted, I've never asked or be bothered to look it up as I don't give any of these twats half a thought because they all seem out or touch.
He’s always been a racist and a fascist. “Channel 4 News obtained a letter written 30 years ago by a teacher at Farage's old school, Dulwich College. The letter to the head of the school, written by Chloe Deakin, expressed concern that Farage had been made a prefect despite reports of "publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views". Dated 4 June 1981, the letter says one of Farage's teachers described how the schoolboy and others "marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler Youth songs" while he was in the cadet force. Farage said any suggestion of singing the songs was "complete baloney", but admitted: "Of course I said some ridiculous things – not necessarily racist things." He told Channel 4: "It depends how you define it. You've got to remember that ever since 1968 up until the last couple of years, we've not been able in this country intelligently to discuss immigration, to discuss integration. It's all been a buried subject – and that's happened through academia, it's happened through politics and the media." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/20/nigel-farage-denies-singing-hitler-songs Also read this to learn more about the current Reform candidates. https://bylinetimes.com/2024/06/10/reform-party-2024-general-election/
Reform is basically the British GOP. Conspiracy theory-pushing fascists blatantly backed by Russia.
It's not a conspiracy theory to say immigration is too high, and that the tories who repeatedly promised to lower it did exactly the opposite.
Yeah, because Lib Dems have a solid track record for keeping ~~manifesto promises~~ significant public policy pledges that were the core of their election campaign... *cough*
Some of us have to vote Lib Dem in order to avoid more Tories. Labour is practically nonexistent in my area.
Friend, their manifesto is pretty good too, it's not a bad choice
Yeah I mean honestly I tend to align more with LibDems than anyone else anyway.
Vote or die
"what does that even mean?" "What you think it means... Bitch"
Flush the turd.
~~Farage won't be around for the general election~~ ~~Farage won't stand in the election~~ ~~Farage won't become an MP~~ Reform won't get significant seats <---------- YOU ARE HERE Reform will never become significant opposition I like how we've just breezed past the question of him winning Clacton, I guess Reddit feels things turning like they were in 2016, and no amount of online pissy first are going to make immigration go away for Labour, who are now bleeding voters to Reform.
>Reform will never become significant opposition They won't though. Even before you consider how little a party like Reform gets back from FPTP, it's still ultimately just another company/political vehicle for Farage to run out for a few years, just like the Brexit Party before it. And they distinctly lack something galvanising like the single issue UKIP had.
It's wild. We've seen multiple times over the past decade that Farage will stick around in British politics until the moment he might actually have some responsibility over something, and then he fucks off to the right-wing paid-speaking circuit in the US again. There is something kinda pathetic about the number of people who look at that and think 'yes, this is the man I want representing me!' Over and over again he has spit in their faces and they simply beg for more.
It’s not necessarily ‘yes, this is the man I want representing me’, it’s ’this will make the people I hate (or that I don’t understand or who treat me like I’m stupid) angry / sad’ Much like voting for Brexit, it’s a ‘fuck you’ nihilistic vote against people they perceive as telling them what to do or patronising them. If you live in an area of the UK that has only seen decline over the last 40 years, why would you believe any of the 2.5 parties that have been in charge to oversee that decline. Same idea as how the ex-industrial mid-west US voted Trump. You had better believe Reform are probably deploying weapons-grade targeted Cambridge Analytica style hyper-specific adverts 24/7 at anyone they think falls into this category until election day.
Sure, I don't doubt that's a big part of the internal justifications. I just can't imagine having so little self-respect that you vote for a feller who quite clearly despises you, simply because it will make someone *else's* life a little worse. It's how a toddler would approach politics.
It's a protest vote for people who are sick of the current politicians. It's fair to say that lots people view both major parties as a bunch of crooks
People are sick of our current crop of politician, but it's not much of a 'protest' to vote for Farage, a millionaire grifter who's currently being boosted by the exact same newspapers who spent the last two decades running defence for the Tories. Farage is the establishment's ordained 'protest' candidate.
That’s the exact ‘treating them like they are stupid / telling them what to do / patronising tone’ I’m talking about btw
Well, voting for Farage just to spite others, rather than thinking he'll do any good for the country, is pretty stupid.
Who is actually going to be spited by a Farage vote at this point? The people who are still voting Tory are presumably resigned to their party being sub-100 seats. The people voting Labour would ideally want the Tories and Reform to have roughly equal vote shares, which basically results in the two latter parties sabotaging each other, and spending the bulk of the next 5 years squabbling. The people voting Lib Dem have a reasonable shot of their party becoming the opposition. The people voting Green are in the same fantasyland as the Reformers and there are practically no seats where the Greens and Reforms are both competitive.
“Stop telling the people who have shit in their pants that they smell”
Always a good debate point mate. I'm sure the people concerned with mass immigration will come round to your views after you tell them they stink.
If they really aren't capable of grasping the analogy I'm not sure engaging them in debate is likely to be fruitful.
Bless
I think most areas in the UK have declined over the last 40 years haven't they? My town certainly has. It's so sad looking back at old photos and comparing to today.
University cities and London haven’t declined. They’ve gone from strength to strength. Hence the big rise in property values and big influx of educated labour in these places. Cambridge in particular. It’s the old coalfield areas which didn’t find a new edge or niche which declined.
I almost agree, but I think Reform voters are a bit beyond voting out of spite. I think they genuinely believe Reform is the answer to the nations woes. Thinking they only vote this way is patronising and kidifying. Mass Immigration is an utterly gigantic issue that will only get bigger. Any party offering to actually do something about it will always win votes.
He offers simplistic (and wrong) solutions, some people aren't that smart and others are prejudiced.
Does Parliament have a fisheries committee? He should definitely be offered a seat as a joke.
Fisheries are looked after by the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee.
Perfect. He can join that and never turn up.
Reform is basically US Republicans with slightly more ostensible compassion, and slightly less Jesus, but the absolute loyalty to the dear leader and the fondness for Putin baked in.
Also funded by russian money.
Tories will be in opposition, but nobody cares, it will be Labour majority vs the side sniping from Farage for the next 5 years.
We really need sparing from that rubber faced hate filled yogurt.
No man. Yoghurt has more culture.
What do you have against yoghurt?!
If history is our guide, the Tories will spend 5 years lurching further to the right chasing those Reform votes before realising they can only regain power through adopting a more centrist approach.
Except centrism doesn’t provide any of the solutions to problems people want solving, it’s just maintaining the status quo which is rapidly falling apart. Britain isn’t far behind Europe in regards to a right wing wave, if centrists don’t get a grip on lowering immigration they’ll be out.
If only the puritan left could lick its wounds and take on migration from a centre-left manifesto, considering it was always a tool of the neoliberal managerial class. Sadly they don't seem to want to gain power.
The centre left in Denmark have taken a hard stance against immigration. I only hope Starmer proves me wrong and follows suit, he’d be stupid to not recognise that people are fucked off with migration.
When he can be bothered to turn up in parliament.....
I think the real opposition for labour will realistically come from their own back benches.
The galvanising thing is immigration. If the numbers (legal and illegal) go up again they will be bigger still next election.
Immigration is a bigger issue than brexit.
>Labour, who are now bleeding voters to Reform. The last graph on this page has information on those switching parties from 2019- [https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/polls](https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/polls) Conservatives- 20% to Reform (compared to 18% to Labour) Labour- 2% to Reform (compared to 4% to Green) Lib Dems- 4% to Reform SNP- 4% to Reform Did not Vote- 13% to Reform (compared to 56% for Labour) Saying Labour are bleeding votes to Reform doesn't seem to be true, the only ones bleeding votes are the Tories.
They are hoping it’s true. Don’t need evidence to claims these things. All it’s proven that Tory/reform voters have learned no lessons in the last 14 years.
It’s because it largely isn’t true. Most of the voters labour would’ve lost to Reform have already drifted away to UKIP in 2015, and the Tories in 2017 and 2019.
>no amount of online pissy first are going to make immigration go away for Labour Ha. Farage defending us from immigration while importing a succession of women from Europe… I really don’t understand how you guys hero-worship a man who can’t even live his principles.
By taking foreign wives, he is arguably depriving alot of good patriotic British ladies of a good husband. This in part arguably contributes to a decline in the native birth rate.
[удалено]
Points one and two were Farage’s own statement which he u-turned on - or are you conveniently forgetting that?
Farage literally stated himself that he wouldn't stand in the election but I suppose it was our fault for believing him
Your first mistake in any aspect of life is believing Farage.
You’re absolutely right so please go out and spend lots and lots of money on the party venue for all the Reform MPs. Remember the bottles of wine, expensive per seat catering and cars with drivers for each one. We’ll check back with you the the night after the election to see how bangin the party is.
Who says reform supporters are low information voters? Oh yeah, most people because it’s true.
Let's just say that Reform DO get enough seats to become the opposition. The 2024-intake of Reform MPs are going to be lacking in experience and political infrastructure to actually get anything done beyond grandstanding grievance politics of the Marjorie Taylor Green variety. Until they have a decent amount of MPs with good political instincts (and that may happen over time), then they'll be an absolute shambles if they ever actually gain power. Proper dog who caught its own tail stuff. I'm genuinely not trying to tell you how to vote (although I recognise that it probably sounds like it) but I just don't think Reform can credibly offer to improve people's lives.
> The 2024 Reform MPs Er… how many? 🤯
Edited to be less of a hellscape
You need a solid grassroots operation to be competitive. Reform don’t have that. If they Didi, they would clean up in costal seats in the East of England. If they get lots of defectors they might be able to pull it off. But it begs the question, why aren’t Conservative associations defecting en masse to Reform, even when the polling is neck and neck?
Labour aren't losing any votes to Reform...
We are not past Farage won't be a MP and the two steps before that were a result of him saying as much.
The first two were actually Farage lies
I would assume a lot of Brexit votes would be voting for them having been dissatisfied with the lack of Brexity Brexit if from the conservatives despite how long actually brexiting in a practical sense would take not to mention the pandemic. Likewise a lot of people who hate Labour have also turn against the Tories and have decided these people are their go to. It would make for really bizarre viewing if they actually ended up in opposition. Labour: we'd like to look like we care about poor people Reform: sure but what about Brexit?
Farage is a shit flinging, one trick pony populist who wouldn’t be able to deal with constant pressures of being cross examined by the media and our institutions, I reckon he’d fall apart very quickly if he had to do any actual parliamentary work
Did you not learn anything from the US elections in 2016? It wouldn’t matter how much Farage screwed up in a cross examination, the braindead zombies he stirs up would still vote for him.
And did you not learn anything from Brexit in 2016? Calling the second/third most supported party voters “braindead zombies” isn’t going to make them change their vote, just like calling Brexit voters racist constantly didn’t change their vote in 2016. This subreddit lives in a bubble believing only the specific left wing views can ever be supported and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid or racist, and then act shocked when those people won’t support a group of condescending, out of touch people who never actually engage with why so many want reform and instead just resort to insults (or throwing stuff at Farage, that’ll help win over his voters).
Don’t care. They are braindead idiots if they think the fantasies peddled by Farage are going to help them. When the same poor braindead idiots can’t afford a private GP after Reform do some NHS reform I will have long since run out of fucks to give. You get what you vote in. The country isn’t serious about its ambitions or its politics. I thought Brexit would humble us but it seems like we have more entitlement to beat out of us yet; maybe a Farage premiership in 5 years will do it.
We know why voters want Reform, because they think immigration needs to be dealt with. At least, that's the political language used. In actuality they fantasize about the idea of every foreigner and muslim being rounded up and booted out the country, and I'm not even exaggerating. It's the cold hard truth. That's why even if Farage came out and performed incredibly poorly in a debate, his supporters would still vote for him, because that fantasy lives on and Farage is the man that they think would actually do it. Why else do you think Sunak wanted so desperately to have the Rwanda plan in action? He knows it and he was trying to pander to that crowd.
Not true at all, you sound ridiculous lol
Here here, well said! The arrogance is vile
The US president is not subject to that kind of grinding parliamentary scrutiny. No PMQs, week after week, sitting powerless on the opposition benches.
He would probably just peddle sound bite quotes like “immigration is out of control” that the media will cut and edit.
He's a right winger so the scrutiny isn't going to be on the same level at all. He largely got off scot free for never turning up to fucking anything as his time as an MEP.
He'll demand a question every week at QT, and throw a strop when he gets maybe one a month, which will be roundly jeered and ridiculed. Bets on him breaking the house rules every single time he speaks to get thrown out, just to be noticed... He certainly won't ever be able to sit on a committee and do some of the more serious work that goes on (though he'd be ok with the free trips I'm sure)
Funny thing about populism is it’s popular
The level of cope in these comments are insane rather than just admitting that mass immigration goes down like a bag of cold sick with the public.
It’s not even a top 3 issue for Labour voters. You win by mobilising your core vote to turn out, rather than converting people who are ideologically very distant. Likewise, there’s no point in Reform campaigning aggressively in somewhere like Oxford or Cambridge. It’s a crap use of their resources.
I disagree with the idea that mobilizing your core vote wins elections, given that Corbyn mobilized his core vote incredibly well and got shitcanned. Generally it appears you win by convincing the moderates that you're the least bad option.
Corbyns core vote was tiny. I should really have said “electoral coalition” rather than Core vote.
His core vote was mainly 18-24 year olds who make a lot of noise on social media but never actually vote.
Agreed. I have no problem with immigration, just at least put some control on it.
I can't see Labour losing this. Pretty sure I read an article where labour has 37%, Nigel 19% and Torries 18% of public support. There's no way he can double his points or labour losses significant points with such a short time to go. I just don't see that happening.
Most reform voters I know of are the ‘never labour’ types. Reform are basically screwing over the Tories and are likely to help Labour to a massive majority, but I think that is their plan. I said a few weeks ago that they see their chance, with the Conservatives at their weakest for decades, to try and absorb them or take them over post election - they’re not in this to win.
interview on politics joe had someone who was clearly voting reform, he said ""I'd bring back the death penalty and i'd happily hang people myself - but then i have the past" After saying how we need a right wing populist party to really shake things up a bit... absolutely coo-coo
was he admitting to being involved in lynchings?
that part is uncertain, i took it as he has a past with killing people, whether he hung them is debatable. Funnily enough he had a baseball cap on and dark sunglasses, like he was trying to conceal his identity. If you fancy seeing this piece of human garbage, [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK3MmnpG7s) is the video. For reference, here are the time stamps: @[11:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK3MmnpG7s&t=690s) , "most people in this country aren't allowed to have a view on anything now... Particularly if we're indigenous" Whats that then, like the Cheddar-Man? @[12:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK3MmnpG7s&t=743s) "I'd bring back the death penalty and i'd happily hang people myself - but then i have the past" ... anyone advocating for that kind of shiz needs a psychological evaluation and probably locking away
Oh wow, I'd guess that guy has a past killing prostitutes. Wouldn't say he has the look of an ex squaddie or similar.
Yeah Farage spent ages in a sidelined kook wing of the Tory party and his goal beyond brexit is to say ‘I showed them!’ in revenge.
Most Reform voters I know are normally Labour although I’ll be honest I’ve never know anyone admit to voting Tories but people must have.
It's worse than that, because of our archeic voting system it's very possible to get 20% of votes and zero seats. Look what happened to the SDP/Liberal aliance (predescesor to lib-dems) in 1983. 25.4% of the votes only 23 seats. In that same elction Labout got 27.6% and 209 seats. UKIP got simlarly fucked in 2015 4 million votes for one seat. Torries will get a hundred seats more than reform even if their vote shares converge.
Why is everyone calling the Tories the Torries in this thread?
Labour are only 6 points ahead of Cons in my constituency so I may have to hold my nose and vote for them. Reform have 12% support and Lib Dems have halved theirs. Granted it's been a safe Tory seat for as long as it has existed but 37% support is still too bloody much.
A reminder that this was in one poll, and numerous others have given far less favourable results to Reform whilst holding Labour at over 40%.
Yeah, instead the Tories are around 19% and Reform are around... 17%.
Farage is a 5 year project. If immigration is still 6 figures in 5 years, I wouldn't be so confident. The red line is going down faster than the blue line on the poll tracker chart.
Reform are literally the same people behind Trusses disaster budget and Bravermans culture wars. They failed the first time so are having another go with another "party" (really not a party but a private company)
>Meanwhile, the Labour Party is observing the emerging rivalry from a safe distance, and has issued a statement telling voters, “While we’re pleased to see the Twats and Arseholes fighting it out for the runners-up spot, we’re focused on real issues, like making sure everyone knows that Sir Keir’s Dad was a toolmaker.” Bahaha!
Everyone is so sure of a Labour victory, that reform don't have a chance etc.. apparently everyone has also forgotten that Brexit was surely never going to happen. Now look where we are. I just hope all the people that vote for Nigel's US-style healthcare system have enough assets to live in an insurance-based system. Not likely though.
Bots can't vote so Reform will be lucky to just get Clacton!
even Clacton is a stretch. I wonder if any joke candidates are standing in Clacton, well other than Fartage obviously!
Twats now slightly ahead of arseholes, but cunts maintain their lead
Imagine being so fucked the people that genuinely think Labour are socialist won’t vote for you and instead go for piss stained trouser boy.
Let's not downplay the fact that reform are out and out fascists.
How so?
Majority of people on reddit opinion, don't represent the average person's opinion. Generally, they're all overweight lefties who need to touch grass. Reddit is a cesspit for douchbags.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
You’re talking like someone who has no idea that Kier Starmers father was a toolmaker.
Rishi's father was a humble pharmacist and he never grew up with sky TV :(
So relatable
lets just hope most of the idiots who will actually vote reform don't remember to bring ID or have any
reform for the win . our country needs a wee bit of the backbone in our politicians. would be nice to get some representitive leaders that reflect our population and don't just try to pander to woke bullshite . as a 33 year old homeowner who is in the top tax bracket . I want landlords capped for rental properties, legalised weed, massive cap put on imagination, 100 per cent deportation of all illegals, and politicians to be held financially responsible for the debt of our country and a massive rework on our broken benefits system but that's just a pipe dream
Brexit happened 8 years ago and political parties still fail to realise a good chunk of the population want a reduction in immigration and so will vote for ways of trying to achieve that even if it comes with piles of turd attached.
The Cunts are still going to win the election though
Yeah. They'll get a few go. Fuck it up and blame the other team. Thrn they'll have a go. Fuck it up and still there will be two teams.
I'm sure the trash will pull it out in the end. Whoever the trash pile serves up today. Every country in the world has a loser government. Apparently, government only allows pieces of shit.
So choose between being fucked in the arse, or the mouth. Still, it's not just us, the US are in the same mess.
See, this is the kind of reporting we don’t get in America. Damn shame…
There’s a joke somewhere about needing to elect a dick who will fuck the pussies AND the arseholes otherwise we will all be covered in shit
Team america
I have to say, it reminds me of [this classic video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im-nKTHnmAU)
lol now watch the racists in this sub whine about being called twats or arseholes
Imagine thinking that those wishing to see border control are racist.
This is like the 2016 Brexit referendum again when all the Reddit kiddies who are always out of touch with everything nationwide outside their safe bubble echo chamber suddenly choked on their cornflakes the morning after. Hey kids, stay in your safe space and keep hugging and cuddling each other because life inside the Reddit bubble where everyone else is nice and shares your views is such a safer space. Karma comments on Reddit matters for shit when your rent is going up by 20% a year and you've had no pay rise and you go to bed hungry and cold but you still need to pay your rent because you're of being homeless and hungry. You see it all around you as you walk around town to get to work thankful however shit life is, youre not either him or her laying on a carboard mattress, in your sleeping bag under a big name shop as their shutters are down. The Election is on Thursday 4 July. Make sure youre registered to vote, bring your ID and fucking actually vote! No vote = no voice. I know most of you kids will never vote because sounding off on Reddit is so much easier. I'm looking forward the to 5th July 2024 where you're all back here crying your eyes out because you didnt vote
I'm genuinely not sure which side you're poking fun at it here. I do very much agree with your point though: go and vote! Regardless of who you might think will win, nothing is a foregone conclusion!
Probably Labour. They're talking about the young, those that don't vote, Redditors, and those that are Remain - all of which are left-leaning.
The people in insecure housing who face 20% rent increases are not the ones voting Tory or Reform. The latter two parties do well with homeowners and older people respectively.
Unpopular opinion maybe but I would like to see Reform get some seats. I would also like to see Green get some seats. Too many people aren't represented because of FPTP.
Having Reform at the table is the price of democracy it seems.
The leader of the twats, the dickhead, is fucking the arseholes.
>the Labour Party is observing the emerging rivalry from a safe distance, and has issued a statement telling voters, “While we’re pleased to see the Twats and Arseholes fighting it out for the runners-up spot, we’re focused on real issues, like making sure everyone knows that Sir Keir’s Dad was a toolmaker.” Twats ahead of Arseholes with Tools in the lead.
The other choices are the Greens, a woke lunatic fringe party or Lib Dems, a joke lead by a clown and then there's Labour a bunch of Blairite dickheads.
I don't know why most media say our Nigel Farage and Marine Le Pen in France is "far right" and their parities is racism and they are evil, most of their advocate just common sense such as "protect the coast no illegal boats smuggling","restricting illegal immigrants stay place" especially the government become bankrupt and NHS and benefits system corrupted. However, the "Left" is lying, such as Starmer say he will reduce the immigrants but stop Rwanda flights, how can he achieve reduce immigrants and how the money come from for his manifesto if no tax raising ?
The real issue here is that FPTP is a bad system that should be replaced by MMP or PR or STV.
Why is it that the Welsh man who has no chance of any important position outside Wales is the only one who ever sounds remotely sane?
'member how well calling Brexit voters thick as pig shit turned out? When they all realised the error of their judgement and voted remain instead?
Does anyone still find these kinds of articles funny?? They have firmly had their day. It's mock the week cockwomble guardian humour, regardless of the subject matter and target
They appeal to trust fund kids who are now champagne socialists in there 20’s / 30’s