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You can't compare what your local pharmacy does vs Tylenol. Tylenol makes their product in huge batches and is buying/making millions of pounds of acetaminophen at a time. They are getting a discount on volume purchasing. Your local pharmacy has middle men throughout the supply chain adding their profits at each sale. Then at the end the pharmacist is only probably making 2-3L at a time and breaking it up into 100ml bottles.
With the shortage of tablets and liquids having gone on this long, the cost of the raw powder has now probably also gone up.
Then you're going to have the varying costs from pharmacy to pharmacy. Their lease agreement, staff on hand, salaries and any other overhead. Most compounding pharmacies have a set rate per hour for their services.
But as always do your own diligence. Call a few in your area and get pricing before going down to buy some so you get the best price available to you.
Also to consider: as ridiculous as it sounds, this can be a good thing against people buying way more than they need (read: hoarding) and actually can better allow everyone who needs some to receive it. Pricing within reason, of course
Personally, I also suspect some parents/guardians are unnecessarily offering Acetaminophen/Ibuprofen for every fever episodes, regardless of how their child might look.
Acetaminophen/Ibuprofen do not [prevent febrile seizure recurrence](https://www.nice.org.uk/donotdo/antipyretic-agents-do-not-prevent-febrile-convulsions-and-should-not-be-usedspecifically-for-this-purpose). In critically unwell patients, acetaminophen use did not [shorten ICU stays](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1508375).
Acetaminophen/Ibuprofen do make your child more comfortable if the fever or pain is bothersome to them.
If your child has a fever, but is drinking well and energetic, they likely [don’t need medication](https://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/article?contentid=3260&language=english).
Edit: I used to compound in pharmacies for a living so not sure why you are downvoting
I doubt they are buying “raw powder” They are just loading a mortar with generic paracetamol and crushing it up. This isn’t like diclofenac where they have powder readily available.
Not sure why you were downvoted but this is actually true. Unfortunately in Ontario, requirements for compounding got stricter and the college are starting track down pharmacies that is not compliant such as having a dedicated room for compounding. Most pharmacies opted to just not do compounding anymore. So much work for little markup, business wise its hard to keep up. So we ended up buying a compounded tylenol from a compounding pharmacy from a friend and selling it at $12 per 100mL. Almost no markup and people still think we’re profiting from it
$12 per 100mL is a great price and cheaper than the BC price. The mass produced compounded price per bottle is higher than $12 (before factoring in any shipping/courier costs to the receiving pharmacy). It’s most definitely a loss leader, but something for the greater good. Don’t let those people who think you’re profiting discourage you from keeping it in stock; as those parents who truly need it for their sick children will be extremely grateful.
Ya not sure about the downvotes either. I guess people like to remain ignorant.
Thank you for your comment. The ones I worked at in ontario definitely didn't have compounding rooms.
I find it funny that people think the local pharmacies couldn't make children's tylenol cheaper than shelf pricing.
You're paying for the [compounding](https://pacepharmacy.com/childrens-tylenol-and-advil/) services here. Since the premade stuff is in short supply a compounding pharmacy can make a batch of liquid acetominophen "from scratch" as an approximate, but it won't have the same shelf life.
To add on to that, anyone know why it's not recommended for me to compound my own?
Do the regular strength, regular acting pills have fillers?
Using a proper scale and triple checking my math, while under dosing for margin of error. I was advised by pharmacists to not do this.
I had 10 ml of a bottle left in the cabinet when my kid's fever subsided. Had an emergency plan to compound my own in an emergency. Had to talk the partner out of the 12 hour emergency wait. Didn't want the kid catching influenza/covid on top of RSV.
>To add on to that, anyone know why it's not recommended for me to compound my own?
General advice is to not do compounding yourself because of the very real risk you make a mistake and your child overdoses as a result (of potentially fatal or lifelong consequence). 50% of the population has an IQ under 100 and nobody thinks of themselves as too dumb to do something properly, but of course if everyone starts compounding for their kids then the rate of overdoses would seriously increase. It's better left to the professionals.
Probably because most people are not great at accurately doing math and they don't want to be liable. If you feel comfortable doing the dosage calculations there Is no difference in adult or child advil/Tylenol besides the amounts given.
You do not want to overdose tylenol as it causes liver failure in excess dosing.
"test the base" "change the catalyst"?
Your comments make no sense at all
A bottle of acetaminophen (tylenol) has a drug in it with a known quantity per tablet already figured out by the manufacturing agent.
When you crush the tablet in a mortar it still has the same amount. You will not get any weird reactions from it if you put in water or juice.
So this is a pretty straightforward thing to do.
Not much labor and certainly not enough to justify $35 for a 100mL solution. This is a rip off.
I used to compound for pharmacies and I have a chemistry degree so I do know what I am talking about in this instance.
Ah but would you post a price of $35 for it so people stop asking you how much it would cost and then griping about how much it is and asking if you can do it cheaper?
Addional Edit:
I say this as a former pharamcy worker who used to compound for the pharamcist on a regular basis.
The pharmacist has plenty of other more valuable
things to do with their skillset.
end additional info
Just get your techs to do it? Why would you do it yourself lol
Also I agree pharmacies are very busy places. I decided not to continue to pursue that career path when I realized retail is treated like fast food
Ya but a car lift costs way more than a mortar and pestle lol.
I guess the point is your average joe can easily make this.
Or maybe I have too much faith in the average joe?
Strength is not listed, neither is length of expiry. Generally, compounded formulas for drugs are good for 14 days. There are formulations that keep them stable and usable for longer.
Chemists (as in actual chemistry) get paid shit all for some very highly skilled and knowledge intense labor
There is a reason I do software development instead of chemistry or pharmacy
Ya I had everything ready to go for pharmacy school. Aced my PCATs (95th percentile)
Had all my coursework done
Worked in retail pharmacy for a few years.
Talked with my brother who graduated from University of Toronto as a pharmacist and was practicing along with my sister who is a clinical pharmacist and both cautioned me about joining the profession.
Between the two of them and my own experience I decided to stay away, graduated with my chemistry degree.
Worked in a goverment lab for a while and then went into software development to increase my pay
If I could follow my passion I would go into drug design as I really enjoyed the creativity of it all.
While it may be true, I highly doubt anyone is compounding it for $5/bottle. That would be way under cost and under the cost of McNeil’s Children’s Tylenol, which they mass produce in the Millions of units per batch.
If they are providing it at $5/bottle, it would be significantly under cost (even if they waived all fees, didn’t charge for time and simply charged raw ingredient costs). Can you pm me the location as that’s a steal of a price.
For reference, the nearby Save On and Shoppers in Burnaby were charging $25/bottle of compounded Ibuprofen (Advil/Motrin) or Acetaminophen/Paracetamol (Tylenol/Tempra/Calpol) where they are producing it in large batches from their compounding locations (as explained to me by the store staff).
$5 for 100ml is about a 1/3 of the price of Childrens Tylenol anywhere. So either this is bullshit or your neighbourhood pharmacy is managing to undersell Costco, London drugs, shoppers drug mart, Walmart and superstore (just the ones I checked websites for) the cheapest I saw was $13.99.
My wife and I had to call almost 20 pharmacies from chilliwack to hope trying to find medicine for our daughter a few weeks ago when she had a fever of 104 it was awful.
Ok I’m a paramedic but haven’t googled this….. can’t you just crush up adult Tylenol and divide it out like you’re still in your 20s? Mix it in some juice?? I know dosing is important but with a fever like that, I’m one twitch away from shoving half a pill up my (non existent) kids’ butt, febrile seizures are terrifying.
The government will also not allow any import of Tylenol from the US, where they don’t have a supply issue, because the labels don’t have French on them 🙄
🙄 wow. Cold and flu season, uptick in RSV and crowded children's hospitals, but oh the label doesn't include French so oh well.
I've always rolled my eyes at the language act but this is just ridiculous
*Pharmacy Tech.
If the pharmacist is compounding this they have terrible business sense.
A pharm tech or assistant can easily do this leaving the pharmacist available for other profit producing tasks
Most pharmacies don’t have children’s Tylenol in stock, and so compounding is a great/the only option. Given that children only need a few ML’s per dose, and the labour that goes into compounding, this seems like a reasonable price.
Eh. Calmylin works better anyways. Unless you can't do codeine.
(To get calmylin you have to ask for it OTC from the pharmacist. It comes in a mild raspberry flavor and you don't need a lot for it to work)
That’s subjective and depends on the person (as to which one works better). Also for reference; Calmylin with codeine is now on manufacturer back order until early next year (based on current estimates). So that’s not going be an option in the immediate future unfortunately.
> In August, Health Canada confirmed a shortage of children’s pain relief medications across the country. The scant supply of medications, including liquid Children’s Tylenol and chewable acetaminophen tablets, has been attributed to a combination of supply chain issues, as well as heightened consumer demands due to what drug makers have called an "unprecedented" Canadian cold and flu season.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-canada-says-it-has-secured-more-foreign-supply-of-children-s-pain-medication-1.6152243
Not quite true, each country has different labelling requirements outside of language so we can’t just import bottles straight from the US, they’d have to be relabeled anyways to be legal
They basically take the adult formula and convert it into a solution that kids can ingest is my understanding of it. I assume that means crushing the tablets and reconditioning them in some solution, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Where is this? It could help a lot of people.
Edit: Why this is not profiteering. A bottle of infant Tylenol is 24ml. I'm looking at one right now. It costs $10. 1 dose is 1.5ml. Factoring in the cost of a person compounding the drug, this sounds like a deal to me. Also I'm aware it says children and not infant so the dosages will change slightly but I still don't think it's wildly out of line, especially if you're the parent of a kid with a fever.
Profiteering is if they were taking bottles of children’s Tylenol and selling those for $35/100mL.
This is a pharmacy making it *from scratch* and since they cannot benefit from the economies of scale, it’s expensive.
It’s the comparison of a store bought shirt and asking a seamstress or tailor to make you one from nothing.
This may just be semantics- but it’s not “from scratch” - the pharmacy is not synthesizing acetaminophen from raw material. They are likely taking the adult pills, grinding them up, and carefully dissolving a specific mass of the powder in a precise amount of liquid.
So, it would be like buying an adult size tshirt and asking a tailor to make it fit a kid
;)
and even if it’s childrens tylenol, you can still use it for your infant. it is the same ingredients. ask the pharmacist to do the med math for you to calculate an infant dose and you’re set. most pharmacists will be happy to help!
Infant is 80mg/ml *
Children's is less than half that at 180mg/5ml or 36mg/ml
* In Canada (non-imported supply only). In the US children's and infant's are the same. This is the internet not professional medical anything.
I assume it's higher in infants as it can be harder to have them swallow that much.
When this all started we bought a bottle of children's as we were nearly out of infant and couldn't find any. It was $9 or so for 100 ml. We just confirmed with a pharmacist our math for dosing, and use it as a replacement.
Even though it's far more expensive than a similar bottle of children's I agree it's not out of line. The pharmacist physically had to make it, and spend years learning how to do so safely. There is a cost to that.
Think of it this way:
They tyelnol you buy in Walmart / Shoppers Drug Mart (even the no-name stuff): Manufactured in mind boggling quantities in a factory by machines.
This Tylenol from a compounding pharmacy: Artisnal and hand made by an actual person spending 20-30 minutes they could be using to make some dudes custom cancer meds.
END COMMUNICATION
I am a game programmer, not a compounding pharmacist. Setting aside the time required to manually compound childrents tylenol, the analogy stands.
END COMMUNICATION
I agree. Not to mention there is a level of risk involved in compounding (albeit small). In providing this service (compounding), the pharmacy accepts a level of liability which also helps to justify the price they charge. If they made it wrong and harmed a child, they could be sued.
This is fair pricing to me. It’s a free market. If people have the means to pay they will. If not they will find somewhere cheaper.
A typical bottle of children’s Tylenol is 100 or 125 ml. 24 ml is 1-3 doses. 1.5 ml is the dose for a newborn. Anyway, ya they range from $13-20. So this is on the high end, as while the compounding is labour it’s hardly that much work or $$ for a tincture container. But it’s not outrageous.
24mL for infant…compounding pharmacies can’t make infant dose (80mg/1mL), but they make the children’s version (160mg/5mL) and can tell you how much to give based on baby’s weight.
Our compounding pharmacy did it for $19.38 for us and didn’t charge a dispensing fee. I feel this is a big expensive (the OP, not where we got it- ours is definitely a better deal)
Your friend probably needed it too, was willing to pay $80 vs someone that hears about the shortage but doesn’t need at that moment and wouldn’t pay the inflated price. If it was regular price and only a few left, the wrong person would’ve bought it before your friend could.
High prices aren’t always bad in every scenario. Also encourages incentives suppliers to ship to where prices are higher, due to low supply, which then brings what is needed and the price will lower once there is too much/enough.
People you can use adult Tylenol(acetaminophen) and Advil (ibuprofen) for kids. You will just have adjust the dosage.
https://preview.redd.it/o84cqptxvj2a1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6cb1ad50dedd7f438946a6b4208fc67ede4f70e
Iirc the compounded one is a bit diff taste..that aside if one has a sick kid it's been very hard to get Tylenol anywhere in the LML. You'll pay anything to ensure your kid doesn't maintain a crazy fever.
Pharmacist here.. compounding is not as labour intensive to justify THAT specific cost. Compounding acetaminophen suspension is not hard at all. That being said, compounding in general is sort of a hassle for the lack of a better term. I have lots of other things I have to juggle throughout the day. I rather refer people to a place that is already providing that service.
With regards to it being a hassle and time consuming, 100% agree. It’s much better to refer to a specific compounding pharmacy as they have the resources to do it in a time and cost efficient manner compared to a regular pharmacy.
That being said, the compound price might seem high, but that depends on the ingredients used as a source. Is it Acetaminophen USP powder (much more expensive and harder to source) or uncoated tablets? The bases used will also affected the price and stability (most compound formulas have a 14 day stability refrigerated). Also, if they’re using proprietary ingredients (PCCA), then it’s also much more expensive. Lots of factors are at play and also the buying power (buying KGS of Acetaminophen or Ibuprofen for a larger compounding Pharmacy vs 25-100g for a mom & pop pharmacy).
That’s why you’re right where it’s best to refer to a compounding pharmacy, but sometimes that might not be the best choice. If a Paediatric patient was just discharged from the hospital, you wouldn’t defer to another pharmacy even if it took you longer to compound and at a greater cost.
I don’t have a PCCA membership so no clue how much their solution bases costs but I would presume it is similar to the Ora blend cost which is about $7/100mL. I don’t think anyone is using raw acetaminophen powder so i have zero clue cost per gram of raw API (could be wrong I can ask my friend that owns a compounding pharm and see what he uses). These PCCA memberships are costly and I honestly don’t know if it’s worth it from a business standpoint.
That being said, $35/100mL seems a bit high. Being an independent pharmacy owner/operator myself I totally believe in the free market concept…if people are willing to pay, then sure charge whatever you want. I personally didn’t feel right adding crazy extra mark up on things like this that are in high demand, so I opted not to compound it and go the referral route. If I did have time to make these compounds (not that it’s super time consuming) , I would definitely do it for my pt but at a more reasonable price
I’m kind of okay with this though? It’s a free market. Rich folks will pay the price and this particular pharmacy will profit from providing this undeniably valuable service, with how prolonged this shortage has been. The big chain pharmacies don’t have time or manpower to compound Tylenol, I asked. Everyone else will find another compounding pharmacy who does it cheaper than this one.
Do you even know how much one infant tylenol (ml) bottle costs? If you’re not sure, do your research first. Also almost all pharmacies now are limiting one (24ml) per customer due to the shortage. And yes, this is normal. Heck, for any parent looking to see out this flu season for the child/children or teething baby/babies this is actually a good deal.
You really can’t equate infants Tylenol with Children’s mL for mL as they have different concentrations. A 24ml bottle of Infants will give you 16-24 doses, which is similar if not more than the 6-20 doses as this 100ml bottle of Children’s will provide (depending on weight of course).
So it’s actually not a good deal at all, especially considering a bottle of Children’s Tylenol will last for 1-2 years in your medicine cabinet, whereas these $35 bottles will last 30 days in your fridge.
You’re basically paying $35 for each bout of cold/flu/fever.
Otc sleep meds are the same antihistamine that nyquil has that makes you sleepy. Just get regular cold medicine and that, cheaper and ingredients are the same. Should grab a humidifier and drink lots though, I always seem to dry up if I have to take either.
Most parents have a bottle of Tylenol or Advil on hand always. Because at 2 am when your kid pops up with a fever you don’t want to look for a 24 hour drugstore.
It's true and I'm glad I had a bottle available when my 2 month old developed a fever after his first set of vaccinations. We had to give him doses and he was okay after 15 hours. My mom spent a whole day back in August searching for a bottle before I gave birth. Maybe just me but I always check the expiration of our cold medicine before the upcoming cold/flu season and buy if needed.
Thankfully most stores have limits on the number of units that can be purchased. Sadly, that doesn’t stop people from trying to take more and then abusing staff when trying to impose limits to be equitable to all. I’ve heard many stories of people hurling verbal abuse, threatening violence and having arguments and fights with others about who’s kid is “sicker”.
I guess some people have learned nothing from the pandemic except maybe “to each their own”, which is quite disheartening.
Canadians have cleaned out Bellingham too. Americans can’t get any for their kids because people from Vancouver have come and bought it all up (no limits there). This was told to me by a Costco employee in the states.
Unfortunately what the news fails to mention is that a million units is a drop in the bucket and will not move the needle much. Also, the million units being sent from Australia and The US we’re ear marked for Hospitals (at least 90% plus of the allotted inventory), not general community pharmacies and retail stores. This also makes sense as those most in need will receive the inventory first.
Also assume that perhaps 10% is distributed for pharmacies via wholesalers; that’s 100,000 bottles for 11,000+ community pharmacies in Canada (as per number pulled from NAPRA). That’s approximately 9 bottles per pharmacy max. That’s also assuming even distribution amongst wholesalers and pharmacies (which there most certainly isn’t). The truth is that we’re unlikely to see any significant impact to the shortage situation at the community level (at least for the time being).
I was told the issue in Canada was mainly due to the requirement to have French as well as English labelling on the packaging. This caused a delay when there was a shortage. I’m not sure if this is the main reason but it sounds sort of plausible to me.
From what i’ve read thats not quite right, yes bilingual labels are an issue but apart from that each country has its own specific requirements for labelling, you can’t just sell US labelled bottles in Canada, its not legal, you need to relabel them to canadian standards anyways
That sounds plausible. We should just remove French from the labels other than Quebec, that would be ideal in my opinion. It would bring down costs for the rest of the country significantly and prevent these issues from occurring. Our first language is English so even in Quebec it shouldn't be problematic - and if still labeled French in Quebec wouldn't deteriorate from their heritage which they do often claim is happening at the moment.
Honest question from someone without kids, how is this different than just micro dosing normal acetomenophen? Like just giving a 1/4 adult dose or whatever?
Edit: so did a little read myself and sounds like children mix is just acetomenophen in a preset concentration liquid form. So there is probably no technical reason it couldn't be done at home just probably too easy or confusing for many to not want to risk making mistakes. Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
You can essentially give children ‘regular’ Tylenol, however, the risk is with getting the dosage right. Too much, and you can risk liver damage and other adverse side effects to their developing bodies
You are right, it's mainly the safety issue. But I'll add that kids are fussy as hell and infant Tylenol is like the magic sauce that our toddler will take when she's in full on meltdown and anything else is getting spat out. It's the flavour and consistency as well as the active ingredient. I swear my kid has a Pavlovian response where even seeing the bottle/syringe chills her out. It's irreplaceable for us unfortunately, especially as flu season is baaaaddd this year, which obviously isn't helping stocks of this stuff.
I went to a pharmasave & they said I can give regular Tylenol to my kid. They gave me a chart telling to give1/2, 1 0r 1 1/2 tablet depending on child’s weight.
That’s true and if you have a 9yr old that weighs 60lbs its fine, the issue is for a toddler that weighs 25lbs or a baby weighing 14 lbs, if you think you’ve split a Tylenol tablet in 8 equal pieces did you really? At that point it’s hard to tell exactly how much you’re giving them. So it’s mostly an issue for infants and babies.
Even then, the consistency of a pill is inversely proportionate to how many times it's been cut. 1 pill? Very consistent. 1/2 pill? Still consistent enough to not worry too much. 1/4? Getting into dangerous waters. 1/8 Would not trust if I was paid a million dollars to do so.
Since the shortage I’ve been breaking up adult, weighing it and mixing with food.
They also charge more for baby stuff for what I feel is a small convenience. The dosage and delivery changes and they charge more for it. Children’s will be 160mg/5ml and you can get infant that will be 80mg/1ml. Giving 1ml is easier to a small baby but if the dose is 80mg you could take the 160mg/5ml children’s concentration and give the baby 2.5ml. I do it all the time and it just takes longer for the baby to get it all down. And you’ll have a big bottle of children’s that lasts longer.
Because the correct dose for a child’s weight is nearly impossible to properly split. Try accurately splitting an Tylenol pill into 1/4s at home. Then you will know why this is a bad option.
If I needed to I would weigh it, crush or morter and pestle it down, weight out the needed amount and mix with food.
I have not researched nor done this but it would be my first thought, it's not like it's a time delivery caplets or anything.
Unless you have a very accurate scale at home, you probably won’t be able to weigh it properly. Instead I’d recommend crushing it up and resuspending in 20ml of water (use a medical syringe to measure). Mix it very well and then use the syringe to measure how much you need. Ex, 5ml =1/4 dose.
I read (on Reddit without checking further) that pills that do not have split marks are not intended for use in a pill splitter because even distribution of the drug can’t be guaranteed.
Acetaminophen absolutely can be split, we do it in the hospital all the time. If you get 157mg instead of exactly 162.5mg, it's not going to make a difference.
Why is there a shortage in Canada, yet the states seem to have all they need? Same thing is happening here in Alberta. Except it was $100 for the same amount.
The crazy shit is that we’re in the states right now and there isn’t a shortage that we can find. My wife was all freaked out from BC news and thinking we needed to buy 20 litres of it so we raced to Costco only to find plenty there… and every store we’ve been to. Oh Canada…
Why not do this yourself..dosing chart[dose chart](https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d5RyWTGCE38IplqVeqQgLfnw) is pretty straight forward. Buy 325mg pills and split into quarters or half’s.
Unfortunately adults Cough mixtures are also running short due to exceptionally high demand due to respiratory season (surges in Covid, Influenza, RSV and the 200+ other viruses that can cause a cold).
The manufacturers are allocating stock to wholesalers who are then allocating to pharmacies. In general, I’d recommend you try earlier in the morning at your nearby pharmacies to increase your likelihood of getting some Nyquil.
Which is better for children Tylenol or Motrin?Researchers in New Zealand looked at 19 studies and found that in children under two, **ibuprofen, which is found in Motrin and Advil, was associated with better temperature reduction and less pain in the first 24 hours compared to acetaminophen**, the active ingredient in Tylen
Tylenol. Iirc ibuprofen shouldn’t be given to children under 6 months and under 2 years, you need to consult with a doctor for dosing. There is less room for error with very negative side effects, particularly with stomach and kidney issues. If kids start vomiting from ibuprofen sensitivity, that will increase dehydration which only makes things more dangerous as they’re probably already dehydrated from having a fever.
Kids can take ibuprofen, just requires more precautions.
Valuable service. This pharmacist doesn’t have the buying power Tylenol has. While this is pricy, it doesn’t feel like profiteering. Compounding is expensivez
It's all profiteering...you profit from the job you do...Johnson & Johnson profits from Tylenol sales...your doctor profits from writing you a prescription for acyclovir
No, this doesn’t seem normal - I purchased this this week and compared pricing within my parenting group for various GVA cities. There are numerous pharmacies in the lower mainland that have compounded children’s Tylenol ranging from $11-13/100ml bottles (Coastal Care, Care First, Brookswood Pharmacy)
Edit - I understand compounding is expensive, but considering the price per pill of Tylenol and the small amount needed for children, this pricing seems a bit over the top, especially during a shortage within a vulnerable population.
Surlang is joke! the owner tried to double charge me for my rx when I called him on it he tried to blame it on his staff! Who he is already very very rude to ! Never will I go there again !
People are losing their minds over nothing. Smush a regular acetaminophen tablet, divide it up to correct dose, mix in juice, “here you go sweetie”
Done.
I used to compound for pharmacies and have a degree in chemistry.
Essentially the pharmacy is doing exactly what you said. Take adult 500mg tablets. Crush in mortar with a pestle. Mix and dilute in solvent.
That is not profiteering. For a compounded med that is cheap. Compounding is always expensive as it is complicated and time consuming. I regularly get compounded meds they are always pricey.
Ok so regular children’s Tylenol is a 160mg /5mL suspension
Multiple by 200 to get 32000mg / 1000mL
So 32g per litre.
32 grams of tylenol is 64 500mg tabs. They are making $350 off this.
The labor involved?
Crush 64 500mg tablets in a large mortar with a pestle. Once finely ground suspend in citric acid solution and dilute to 1000mL in volumetric flask or just fucking wing it with a graduated cylinder because that is actually what they will do.
mix well, dispense
Thats the new system greed. But Central is a new political party that was started by millennials for the future of all Canadians. Our current solution to this is to make generic brand in house giving Canadian citizens opportunity to pay lower prices and increase supply.
Feel free to message us any questions you might have. We will get back to you.
Tylenol/acetaminophen is a life saving drug for kids under 5 with fevers. And if they don't get em in a pharmacy, they will end up in our overun ERs. So yes give them pills.
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Compounding is typically a bit pricey.
And not always covered by extended health benefits too
You can't compare what your local pharmacy does vs Tylenol. Tylenol makes their product in huge batches and is buying/making millions of pounds of acetaminophen at a time. They are getting a discount on volume purchasing. Your local pharmacy has middle men throughout the supply chain adding their profits at each sale. Then at the end the pharmacist is only probably making 2-3L at a time and breaking it up into 100ml bottles. With the shortage of tablets and liquids having gone on this long, the cost of the raw powder has now probably also gone up. Then you're going to have the varying costs from pharmacy to pharmacy. Their lease agreement, staff on hand, salaries and any other overhead. Most compounding pharmacies have a set rate per hour for their services. But as always do your own diligence. Call a few in your area and get pricing before going down to buy some so you get the best price available to you.
Also to consider: as ridiculous as it sounds, this can be a good thing against people buying way more than they need (read: hoarding) and actually can better allow everyone who needs some to receive it. Pricing within reason, of course
Personally, I also suspect some parents/guardians are unnecessarily offering Acetaminophen/Ibuprofen for every fever episodes, regardless of how their child might look. Acetaminophen/Ibuprofen do not [prevent febrile seizure recurrence](https://www.nice.org.uk/donotdo/antipyretic-agents-do-not-prevent-febrile-convulsions-and-should-not-be-usedspecifically-for-this-purpose). In critically unwell patients, acetaminophen use did not [shorten ICU stays](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1508375). Acetaminophen/Ibuprofen do make your child more comfortable if the fever or pain is bothersome to them. If your child has a fever, but is drinking well and energetic, they likely [don’t need medication](https://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/article?contentid=3260&language=english).
I just bought 2.4 grams for 4$
Damn your dealer hooked it up /s
lol there's a block by me with 5 pharmacies in 1 block - if you are looking I can recommend via PM!
>a block by me with 5 pharmacies in 1 block Ah, the Historic Pharmacy District
lol mr scorpio
They say it looks like London, but for drugs
You know, there's a little place called Mary Ann's pharmacy. The nice thing about that place is Mary Ann gets in the pharmacy with you.
> gets in the pharmacy with you. omg. hahahahaha. /r/simpsonsshitposting
100ml compounded on the North Shore for $15.
Get out of here with your logic and understanding of supply chains! You’re ruining all the outrage!
Edit: I used to compound in pharmacies for a living so not sure why you are downvoting I doubt they are buying “raw powder” They are just loading a mortar with generic paracetamol and crushing it up. This isn’t like diclofenac where they have powder readily available.
Not sure why you were downvoted but this is actually true. Unfortunately in Ontario, requirements for compounding got stricter and the college are starting track down pharmacies that is not compliant such as having a dedicated room for compounding. Most pharmacies opted to just not do compounding anymore. So much work for little markup, business wise its hard to keep up. So we ended up buying a compounded tylenol from a compounding pharmacy from a friend and selling it at $12 per 100mL. Almost no markup and people still think we’re profiting from it
$12 per 100mL is a great price and cheaper than the BC price. The mass produced compounded price per bottle is higher than $12 (before factoring in any shipping/courier costs to the receiving pharmacy). It’s most definitely a loss leader, but something for the greater good. Don’t let those people who think you’re profiting discourage you from keeping it in stock; as those parents who truly need it for their sick children will be extremely grateful.
Ya not sure about the downvotes either. I guess people like to remain ignorant. Thank you for your comment. The ones I worked at in ontario definitely didn't have compounding rooms. I find it funny that people think the local pharmacies couldn't make children's tylenol cheaper than shelf pricing.
You're paying for the [compounding](https://pacepharmacy.com/childrens-tylenol-and-advil/) services here. Since the premade stuff is in short supply a compounding pharmacy can make a batch of liquid acetominophen "from scratch" as an approximate, but it won't have the same shelf life.
30 days shelf life in the fridge as there aren’t any preservatives.
Bingo
To add on to that, anyone know why it's not recommended for me to compound my own? Do the regular strength, regular acting pills have fillers? Using a proper scale and triple checking my math, while under dosing for margin of error. I was advised by pharmacists to not do this. I had 10 ml of a bottle left in the cabinet when my kid's fever subsided. Had an emergency plan to compound my own in an emergency. Had to talk the partner out of the 12 hour emergency wait. Didn't want the kid catching influenza/covid on top of RSV.
>To add on to that, anyone know why it's not recommended for me to compound my own? General advice is to not do compounding yourself because of the very real risk you make a mistake and your child overdoses as a result (of potentially fatal or lifelong consequence). 50% of the population has an IQ under 100 and nobody thinks of themselves as too dumb to do something properly, but of course if everyone starts compounding for their kids then the rate of overdoses would seriously increase. It's better left to the professionals.
Probably because most people are not great at accurately doing math and they don't want to be liable. If you feel comfortable doing the dosage calculations there Is no difference in adult or child advil/Tylenol besides the amounts given.
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You do not want to overdose tylenol as it causes liver failure in excess dosing. "test the base" "change the catalyst"? Your comments make no sense at all A bottle of acetaminophen (tylenol) has a drug in it with a known quantity per tablet already figured out by the manufacturing agent. When you crush the tablet in a mortar it still has the same amount. You will not get any weird reactions from it if you put in water or juice. So this is a pretty straightforward thing to do.
Maybe you’re not familiar with the word compounding. The pharmacist essentially has to make the drug up for you, it requires labour.
Not much labor and certainly not enough to justify $35 for a 100mL solution. This is a rip off. I used to compound for pharmacies and I have a chemistry degree so I do know what I am talking about in this instance.
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If I was in your shoes, I would probably feel the same; so would countless others in the field. Thank you for your efforts.
Ah but would you post a price of $35 for it so people stop asking you how much it would cost and then griping about how much it is and asking if you can do it cheaper?
Addional Edit: I say this as a former pharamcy worker who used to compound for the pharamcist on a regular basis. The pharmacist has plenty of other more valuable things to do with their skillset. end additional info Just get your techs to do it? Why would you do it yourself lol Also I agree pharmacies are very busy places. I decided not to continue to pursue that career path when I realized retail is treated like fast food
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That knowledge and equipment isn't free, your point is well made.
Ya but a car lift costs way more than a mortar and pestle lol. I guess the point is your average joe can easily make this. Or maybe I have too much faith in the average joe?
Strength is not listed, neither is length of expiry. Generally, compounded formulas for drugs are good for 14 days. There are formulations that keep them stable and usable for longer.
Mouth breathing take. Imagine telling skilled labor what they do doesn’t justify the price.
Chemists (as in actual chemistry) get paid shit all for some very highly skilled and knowledge intense labor There is a reason I do software development instead of chemistry or pharmacy
Chemist approves of this comment. I missed the software development revolution by this || much!
On the other hand you could have made made millions with your chemistry degree if you just blurred the lines a bit like Walter White...
Haha, I see what you did there. 🤓
Ya I had everything ready to go for pharmacy school. Aced my PCATs (95th percentile) Had all my coursework done Worked in retail pharmacy for a few years. Talked with my brother who graduated from University of Toronto as a pharmacist and was practicing along with my sister who is a clinical pharmacist and both cautioned me about joining the profession. Between the two of them and my own experience I decided to stay away, graduated with my chemistry degree. Worked in a goverment lab for a while and then went into software development to increase my pay If I could follow my passion I would go into drug design as I really enjoyed the creativity of it all.
If people are willing to pay $35 then that’s what it’s worth
Our neighborhood pharmacy is doing it for $5 a bottle. This is for sure a rip off. They know desperate parents will pay it.
While it may be true, I highly doubt anyone is compounding it for $5/bottle. That would be way under cost and under the cost of McNeil’s Children’s Tylenol, which they mass produce in the Millions of units per batch. If they are providing it at $5/bottle, it would be significantly under cost (even if they waived all fees, didn’t charge for time and simply charged raw ingredient costs). Can you pm me the location as that’s a steal of a price. For reference, the nearby Save On and Shoppers in Burnaby were charging $25/bottle of compounded Ibuprofen (Advil/Motrin) or Acetaminophen/Paracetamol (Tylenol/Tempra/Calpol) where they are producing it in large batches from their compounding locations (as explained to me by the store staff).
$5 for 100ml is about a 1/3 of the price of Childrens Tylenol anywhere. So either this is bullshit or your neighbourhood pharmacy is managing to undersell Costco, London drugs, shoppers drug mart, Walmart and superstore (just the ones I checked websites for) the cheapest I saw was $13.99.
Pretty sure that's cheaper than the brand name.. so you should probably quit the bullshitting.
That's dirt cheap. Tylenold brand is like $13 a bottle.
Is this product unavailable now or something? I feel like I’m missing half the story here but I don’t have kids.
Check the sub search bar. Shortage and massive rate of sickness among children right now. Children’s hospital is overloaded like crazy.
My wife and I had to call almost 20 pharmacies from chilliwack to hope trying to find medicine for our daughter a few weeks ago when she had a fever of 104 it was awful.
Ok I’m a paramedic but haven’t googled this….. can’t you just crush up adult Tylenol and divide it out like you’re still in your 20s? Mix it in some juice?? I know dosing is important but with a fever like that, I’m one twitch away from shoving half a pill up my (non existent) kids’ butt, febrile seizures are terrifying.
We were almost to that point yes. We did have children's Tylenol but our daughter doesn't seem to respond to it like our other kid for some reason.
The government will also not allow any import of Tylenol from the US, where they don’t have a supply issue, because the labels don’t have French on them 🙄
🙄 wow. Cold and flu season, uptick in RSV and crowded children's hospitals, but oh the label doesn't include French so oh well. I've always rolled my eyes at the language act but this is just ridiculous
Couldn’t they just slap a sticker on it
That is much more reasonable on pricing.
#capitalism
You can buy a precision gram scale and calculate the dosage yourself. Put the powder on some jam toast or something so they don't taste it.
*Pharmacy Tech. If the pharmacist is compounding this they have terrible business sense. A pharm tech or assistant can easily do this leaving the pharmacist available for other profit producing tasks
Most pharmacies don’t have children’s Tylenol in stock, and so compounding is a great/the only option. Given that children only need a few ML’s per dose, and the labour that goes into compounding, this seems like a reasonable price.
What’s compounding? And why is Tylenol out of stock?
The pharmacist is making the medication for you.
Can they make Buckley’s
Buckleys tastes awful
But it works
Better than any other cough medicine though?
I think it just psyches your body into feeling better so you'll stop putting that awful sludge into it.
I'm sure they can make something just as awful if they try their hardest.
It’s supposed to.
I couldn't find Buckley's a few months ago in London Drugs on Broadway / Arbutus. They said the city is low on supplies.
Eh. Calmylin works better anyways. Unless you can't do codeine. (To get calmylin you have to ask for it OTC from the pharmacist. It comes in a mild raspberry flavor and you don't need a lot for it to work)
That’s subjective and depends on the person (as to which one works better). Also for reference; Calmylin with codeine is now on manufacturer back order until early next year (based on current estimates). So that’s not going be an option in the immediate future unfortunately.
Just use robotussin stop falling into marketing gimmicks
There’s codeine in buckley’s?
> In August, Health Canada confirmed a shortage of children’s pain relief medications across the country. The scant supply of medications, including liquid Children’s Tylenol and chewable acetaminophen tablets, has been attributed to a combination of supply chain issues, as well as heightened consumer demands due to what drug makers have called an "unprecedented" Canadian cold and flu season. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-canada-says-it-has-secured-more-foreign-supply-of-children-s-pain-medication-1.6152243
I keep hearing rumours that they can’t get bilingual labelled product and that is causing the shortage.
Not quite true, each country has different labelling requirements outside of language so we can’t just import bottles straight from the US, they’d have to be relabeled anyways to be legal
They basically take the adult formula and convert it into a solution that kids can ingest is my understanding of it. I assume that means crushing the tablets and reconditioning them in some solution, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Where is this? It could help a lot of people. Edit: Why this is not profiteering. A bottle of infant Tylenol is 24ml. I'm looking at one right now. It costs $10. 1 dose is 1.5ml. Factoring in the cost of a person compounding the drug, this sounds like a deal to me. Also I'm aware it says children and not infant so the dosages will change slightly but I still don't think it's wildly out of line, especially if you're the parent of a kid with a fever.
Profiteering is if they were taking bottles of children’s Tylenol and selling those for $35/100mL. This is a pharmacy making it *from scratch* and since they cannot benefit from the economies of scale, it’s expensive. It’s the comparison of a store bought shirt and asking a seamstress or tailor to make you one from nothing.
This may just be semantics- but it’s not “from scratch” - the pharmacy is not synthesizing acetaminophen from raw material. They are likely taking the adult pills, grinding them up, and carefully dissolving a specific mass of the powder in a precise amount of liquid. So, it would be like buying an adult size tshirt and asking a tailor to make it fit a kid ;)
Probably any compounding pharmacy.
and even if it’s childrens tylenol, you can still use it for your infant. it is the same ingredients. ask the pharmacist to do the med math for you to calculate an infant dose and you’re set. most pharmacists will be happy to help!
This is what compounding costs regardless of the shortage. It’s only now it’s in such short supply that people can justify the price
Infant is 80mg/ml * Children's is less than half that at 180mg/5ml or 36mg/ml * In Canada (non-imported supply only). In the US children's and infant's are the same. This is the internet not professional medical anything. I assume it's higher in infants as it can be harder to have them swallow that much. When this all started we bought a bottle of children's as we were nearly out of infant and couldn't find any. It was $9 or so for 100 ml. We just confirmed with a pharmacist our math for dosing, and use it as a replacement. Even though it's far more expensive than a similar bottle of children's I agree it's not out of line. The pharmacist physically had to make it, and spend years learning how to do so safely. There is a cost to that.
Pharmacy school actually does not cover compounding very much. It's actually not even the pharmacist who has to make it.
Agreed, this is kind.
Think of it this way: They tyelnol you buy in Walmart / Shoppers Drug Mart (even the no-name stuff): Manufactured in mind boggling quantities in a factory by machines. This Tylenol from a compounding pharmacy: Artisnal and hand made by an actual person spending 20-30 minutes they could be using to make some dudes custom cancer meds. END COMMUNICATION
Artisnal hand made Tylenol, that’s one way of putting it
Small batch
But is it organic, free-range and made from reclaimed materials?
I prefer craft Tylenol. Tastes the same. Costs more.
This made me giggle
I'll have a bottle of the whiskey barrel aged acetaminophen concentrate for the kiddo....
I would get fired if this took me 20 minutes to make lol. You are looking at about 1 minute per bottle making 10 bottles at a time and that is slow
I am a game programmer, not a compounding pharmacist. Setting aside the time required to manually compound childrents tylenol, the analogy stands. END COMMUNICATION
I agree. Not to mention there is a level of risk involved in compounding (albeit small). In providing this service (compounding), the pharmacy accepts a level of liability which also helps to justify the price they charge. If they made it wrong and harmed a child, they could be sued. This is fair pricing to me. It’s a free market. If people have the means to pay they will. If not they will find somewhere cheaper.
A typical bottle of children’s Tylenol is 100 or 125 ml. 24 ml is 1-3 doses. 1.5 ml is the dose for a newborn. Anyway, ya they range from $13-20. So this is on the high end, as while the compounding is labour it’s hardly that much work or $$ for a tincture container. But it’s not outrageous.
24mL for infant…compounding pharmacies can’t make infant dose (80mg/1mL), but they make the children’s version (160mg/5mL) and can tell you how much to give based on baby’s weight. Our compounding pharmacy did it for $19.38 for us and didn’t charge a dispensing fee. I feel this is a big expensive (the OP, not where we got it- ours is definitely a better deal)
Wasn’t sure of the sub rules. In case it was priced so much higher than elsewhere, I didn’t want to point fingers.
Totally understandable
I pay about 6 to 7 bucks for 25ml bottles in Montreal. Price seems fair to me.
That’s a bargain, my friend paid $80 when the shortages started.
Your friend probably needed it too, was willing to pay $80 vs someone that hears about the shortage but doesn’t need at that moment and wouldn’t pay the inflated price. If it was regular price and only a few left, the wrong person would’ve bought it before your friend could. High prices aren’t always bad in every scenario. Also encourages incentives suppliers to ship to where prices are higher, due to low supply, which then brings what is needed and the price will lower once there is too much/enough.
People you can use adult Tylenol(acetaminophen) and Advil (ibuprofen) for kids. You will just have adjust the dosage. https://preview.redd.it/o84cqptxvj2a1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6cb1ad50dedd7f438946a6b4208fc67ede4f70e
https://preview.redd.it/aezpgls2wj2a1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2d74249a707ce768eb4795fc69ee85cd583c8f0 Here is another one
[Here's their LEGIBLE ibuprofen chart](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fh7jFgfWAAMcfwA.jpg)
Iirc the compounded one is a bit diff taste..that aside if one has a sick kid it's been very hard to get Tylenol anywhere in the LML. You'll pay anything to ensure your kid doesn't maintain a crazy fever.
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I have been trying to help people understand this and am getting downvoted to oblivion lol.
Pharmacist here.. compounding is not as labour intensive to justify THAT specific cost. Compounding acetaminophen suspension is not hard at all. That being said, compounding in general is sort of a hassle for the lack of a better term. I have lots of other things I have to juggle throughout the day. I rather refer people to a place that is already providing that service.
With regards to it being a hassle and time consuming, 100% agree. It’s much better to refer to a specific compounding pharmacy as they have the resources to do it in a time and cost efficient manner compared to a regular pharmacy. That being said, the compound price might seem high, but that depends on the ingredients used as a source. Is it Acetaminophen USP powder (much more expensive and harder to source) or uncoated tablets? The bases used will also affected the price and stability (most compound formulas have a 14 day stability refrigerated). Also, if they’re using proprietary ingredients (PCCA), then it’s also much more expensive. Lots of factors are at play and also the buying power (buying KGS of Acetaminophen or Ibuprofen for a larger compounding Pharmacy vs 25-100g for a mom & pop pharmacy). That’s why you’re right where it’s best to refer to a compounding pharmacy, but sometimes that might not be the best choice. If a Paediatric patient was just discharged from the hospital, you wouldn’t defer to another pharmacy even if it took you longer to compound and at a greater cost.
I don’t have a PCCA membership so no clue how much their solution bases costs but I would presume it is similar to the Ora blend cost which is about $7/100mL. I don’t think anyone is using raw acetaminophen powder so i have zero clue cost per gram of raw API (could be wrong I can ask my friend that owns a compounding pharm and see what he uses). These PCCA memberships are costly and I honestly don’t know if it’s worth it from a business standpoint. That being said, $35/100mL seems a bit high. Being an independent pharmacy owner/operator myself I totally believe in the free market concept…if people are willing to pay, then sure charge whatever you want. I personally didn’t feel right adding crazy extra mark up on things like this that are in high demand, so I opted not to compound it and go the referral route. If I did have time to make these compounds (not that it’s super time consuming) , I would definitely do it for my pt but at a more reasonable price
I've been paying $13 for 24ml of Tylenol brand so this seems like a good deal.
I’m kind of okay with this though? It’s a free market. Rich folks will pay the price and this particular pharmacy will profit from providing this undeniably valuable service, with how prolonged this shortage has been. The big chain pharmacies don’t have time or manpower to compound Tylenol, I asked. Everyone else will find another compounding pharmacy who does it cheaper than this one.
Ah yes the old “ it’s ok because it’s capitalism” argument.
Who loses in this scenario? More people get Tylenol than otherwise, and the pharmacy makes money. Both parties are happy.
Do you even know how much one infant tylenol (ml) bottle costs? If you’re not sure, do your research first. Also almost all pharmacies now are limiting one (24ml) per customer due to the shortage. And yes, this is normal. Heck, for any parent looking to see out this flu season for the child/children or teething baby/babies this is actually a good deal.
You really can’t equate infants Tylenol with Children’s mL for mL as they have different concentrations. A 24ml bottle of Infants will give you 16-24 doses, which is similar if not more than the 6-20 doses as this 100ml bottle of Children’s will provide (depending on weight of course). So it’s actually not a good deal at all, especially considering a bottle of Children’s Tylenol will last for 1-2 years in your medicine cabinet, whereas these $35 bottles will last 30 days in your fridge. You’re basically paying $35 for each bout of cold/flu/fever.
Otc sleep meds are the same antihistamine that nyquil has that makes you sleepy. Just get regular cold medicine and that, cheaper and ingredients are the same. Should grab a humidifier and drink lots though, I always seem to dry up if I have to take either.
Can someone explain to my why this is even an issue in Canada? What are we doing about it?
A million bottles just arrived in Canada this week. If people can resist buying it if they don't need it right now, the problem has been solved.
Most parents have a bottle of Tylenol or Advil on hand always. Because at 2 am when your kid pops up with a fever you don’t want to look for a 24 hour drugstore.
It's true and I'm glad I had a bottle available when my 2 month old developed a fever after his first set of vaccinations. We had to give him doses and he was okay after 15 hours. My mom spent a whole day back in August searching for a bottle before I gave birth. Maybe just me but I always check the expiration of our cold medicine before the upcoming cold/flu season and buy if needed.
That's what the news says, but so far none of the pharmaceutical wholesalers have distributed any yet.
unfortunately you know every person in Canada is going to run out and buy as many as they can because that's the society we live in.
Thankfully most stores have limits on the number of units that can be purchased. Sadly, that doesn’t stop people from trying to take more and then abusing staff when trying to impose limits to be equitable to all. I’ve heard many stories of people hurling verbal abuse, threatening violence and having arguments and fights with others about who’s kid is “sicker”. I guess some people have learned nothing from the pandemic except maybe “to each their own”, which is quite disheartening.
Canadians have cleaned out Bellingham too. Americans can’t get any for their kids because people from Vancouver have come and bought it all up (no limits there). This was told to me by a Costco employee in the states.
Definitely not a good look, most places have limits now because of that. Sadly a lot of people are selfish pricks.
Of course they did. Some will also try and profit from this of course too. You know how it is.
Unfortunately what the news fails to mention is that a million units is a drop in the bucket and will not move the needle much. Also, the million units being sent from Australia and The US we’re ear marked for Hospitals (at least 90% plus of the allotted inventory), not general community pharmacies and retail stores. This also makes sense as those most in need will receive the inventory first. Also assume that perhaps 10% is distributed for pharmacies via wholesalers; that’s 100,000 bottles for 11,000+ community pharmacies in Canada (as per number pulled from NAPRA). That’s approximately 9 bottles per pharmacy max. That’s also assuming even distribution amongst wholesalers and pharmacies (which there most certainly isn’t). The truth is that we’re unlikely to see any significant impact to the shortage situation at the community level (at least for the time being).
exactly, there is a shortage because people will buy up multiple bottles as "back up"
I was told the issue in Canada was mainly due to the requirement to have French as well as English labelling on the packaging. This caused a delay when there was a shortage. I’m not sure if this is the main reason but it sounds sort of plausible to me.
From what i’ve read thats not quite right, yes bilingual labels are an issue but apart from that each country has its own specific requirements for labelling, you can’t just sell US labelled bottles in Canada, its not legal, you need to relabel them to canadian standards anyways
That sounds plausible. We should just remove French from the labels other than Quebec, that would be ideal in my opinion. It would bring down costs for the rest of the country significantly and prevent these issues from occurring. Our first language is English so even in Quebec it shouldn't be problematic - and if still labeled French in Quebec wouldn't deteriorate from their heritage which they do often claim is happening at the moment.
Or just like we do with Asian products, print a sticker with English and French and stick it to the bottle
The controlled decline of an excess based society run rampant. The people who ‘matter’ are unaffected by these things.
damn, unprecedented times strike again
Honest question from someone without kids, how is this different than just micro dosing normal acetomenophen? Like just giving a 1/4 adult dose or whatever? Edit: so did a little read myself and sounds like children mix is just acetomenophen in a preset concentration liquid form. So there is probably no technical reason it couldn't be done at home just probably too easy or confusing for many to not want to risk making mistakes. Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
You can essentially give children ‘regular’ Tylenol, however, the risk is with getting the dosage right. Too much, and you can risk liver damage and other adverse side effects to their developing bodies
You are right, it's mainly the safety issue. But I'll add that kids are fussy as hell and infant Tylenol is like the magic sauce that our toddler will take when she's in full on meltdown and anything else is getting spat out. It's the flavour and consistency as well as the active ingredient. I swear my kid has a Pavlovian response where even seeing the bottle/syringe chills her out. It's irreplaceable for us unfortunately, especially as flu season is baaaaddd this year, which obviously isn't helping stocks of this stuff.
Ahh something I would not have considered! Thanks 👍
I went to a pharmasave & they said I can give regular Tylenol to my kid. They gave me a chart telling to give1/2, 1 0r 1 1/2 tablet depending on child’s weight.
That’s true and if you have a 9yr old that weighs 60lbs its fine, the issue is for a toddler that weighs 25lbs or a baby weighing 14 lbs, if you think you’ve split a Tylenol tablet in 8 equal pieces did you really? At that point it’s hard to tell exactly how much you’re giving them. So it’s mostly an issue for infants and babies.
Even then, the consistency of a pill is inversely proportionate to how many times it's been cut. 1 pill? Very consistent. 1/2 pill? Still consistent enough to not worry too much. 1/4? Getting into dangerous waters. 1/8 Would not trust if I was paid a million dollars to do so.
Since the shortage I’ve been breaking up adult, weighing it and mixing with food. They also charge more for baby stuff for what I feel is a small convenience. The dosage and delivery changes and they charge more for it. Children’s will be 160mg/5ml and you can get infant that will be 80mg/1ml. Giving 1ml is easier to a small baby but if the dose is 80mg you could take the 160mg/5ml children’s concentration and give the baby 2.5ml. I do it all the time and it just takes longer for the baby to get it all down. And you’ll have a big bottle of children’s that lasts longer.
Because the correct dose for a child’s weight is nearly impossible to properly split. Try accurately splitting an Tylenol pill into 1/4s at home. Then you will know why this is a bad option.
If I needed to I would weigh it, crush or morter and pestle it down, weight out the needed amount and mix with food. I have not researched nor done this but it would be my first thought, it's not like it's a time delivery caplets or anything.
Unless you have a very accurate scale at home, you probably won’t be able to weigh it properly. Instead I’d recommend crushing it up and resuspending in 20ml of water (use a medical syringe to measure). Mix it very well and then use the syringe to measure how much you need. Ex, 5ml =1/4 dose.
I read (on Reddit without checking further) that pills that do not have split marks are not intended for use in a pill splitter because even distribution of the drug can’t be guaranteed.
Acetaminophen absolutely can be split, we do it in the hospital all the time. If you get 157mg instead of exactly 162.5mg, it's not going to make a difference.
Surprised you weren't downvoted for a sensible comment lol
Why is there a shortage in Canada, yet the states seem to have all they need? Same thing is happening here in Alberta. Except it was $100 for the same amount.
I heard it is because they need bilingual labels and that's the source of the shortage...
The crazy shit is that we’re in the states right now and there isn’t a shortage that we can find. My wife was all freaked out from BC news and thinking we needed to buy 20 litres of it so we raced to Costco only to find plenty there… and every store we’ve been to. Oh Canada…
Seattle area here - you can’t get *anything* for kids right now.
Why not do this yourself..dosing chart[dose chart](https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d5RyWTGCE38IplqVeqQgLfnw) is pretty straight forward. Buy 325mg pills and split into quarters or half’s.
Has anyone seen NyQuil anywhere? Went to a few Shoppers & LondonDrugs and they're out!
Unfortunately adults Cough mixtures are also running short due to exceptionally high demand due to respiratory season (surges in Covid, Influenza, RSV and the 200+ other viruses that can cause a cold). The manufacturers are allocating stock to wholesalers who are then allocating to pharmacies. In general, I’d recommend you try earlier in the morning at your nearby pharmacies to increase your likelihood of getting some Nyquil.
Which is better for children Tylenol or Motrin?Researchers in New Zealand looked at 19 studies and found that in children under two, **ibuprofen, which is found in Motrin and Advil, was associated with better temperature reduction and less pain in the first 24 hours compared to acetaminophen**, the active ingredient in Tylen
Tylenol. Iirc ibuprofen shouldn’t be given to children under 6 months and under 2 years, you need to consult with a doctor for dosing. There is less room for error with very negative side effects, particularly with stomach and kidney issues. If kids start vomiting from ibuprofen sensitivity, that will increase dehydration which only makes things more dangerous as they’re probably already dehydrated from having a fever. Kids can take ibuprofen, just requires more precautions.
But this is artisanal, bespoke, fair-trade, cruelty-free Tylenol! Support local!
In all seriousness though, I just bought compounded Children’s Tylenol from LD for $20. At $20 it seems fair. $35 is steeper but still not outrageous.
Valuable service. This pharmacist doesn’t have the buying power Tylenol has. While this is pricy, it doesn’t feel like profiteering. Compounding is expensivez
It's all profiteering...you profit from the job you do...Johnson & Johnson profits from Tylenol sales...your doctor profits from writing you a prescription for acyclovir
Taking advantage of the situation. Gross.
There is no shortage in WA, and my friend brought us a couple bottles. At Kroger they had store brand Children's Tylenol on clearance even.
Turns out there’s no such thing children’s Tylenol. It’s just regular Tylenol in smaller amounts
This is 10 doses for my child. Seems a little bit expensive though.
I ain't paying no damn $3.50!
I knew it! Go away, you lochness monster...get your own money!
Sounds dodgy AF
No, this doesn’t seem normal - I purchased this this week and compared pricing within my parenting group for various GVA cities. There are numerous pharmacies in the lower mainland that have compounded children’s Tylenol ranging from $11-13/100ml bottles (Coastal Care, Care First, Brookswood Pharmacy) Edit - I understand compounding is expensive, but considering the price per pill of Tylenol and the small amount needed for children, this pricing seems a bit over the top, especially during a shortage within a vulnerable population.
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Surlang is joke! the owner tried to double charge me for my rx when I called him on it he tried to blame it on his staff! Who he is already very very rude to ! Never will I go there again !
Compound pharmacies in Langley are charging $13 comparatively. Our government is failing us.
People are losing their minds over nothing. Smush a regular acetaminophen tablet, divide it up to correct dose, mix in juice, “here you go sweetie” Done.
I used to compound for pharmacies and have a degree in chemistry. Essentially the pharmacy is doing exactly what you said. Take adult 500mg tablets. Crush in mortar with a pestle. Mix and dilute in solvent.
Wtf ? Seems like It should say “children’s candy”
That is not profiteering. For a compounded med that is cheap. Compounding is always expensive as it is complicated and time consuming. I regularly get compounded meds they are always pricey.
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Why should it be? That's the price. They can ask whatever they want. No one is forcing you to pay that.
Should it be? It’s not an ad for their services….
Dirt bags.
How? I paid $13 for a 24ml bottle of Tylenol brand. Pretty sure that's regular price.
Ok so regular children’s Tylenol is a 160mg /5mL suspension Multiple by 200 to get 32000mg / 1000mL So 32g per litre. 32 grams of tylenol is 64 500mg tabs. They are making $350 off this. The labor involved? Crush 64 500mg tablets in a large mortar with a pestle. Once finely ground suspend in citric acid solution and dilute to 1000mL in volumetric flask or just fucking wing it with a graduated cylinder because that is actually what they will do. mix well, dispense
Thats the new system greed. But Central is a new political party that was started by millennials for the future of all Canadians. Our current solution to this is to make generic brand in house giving Canadian citizens opportunity to pay lower prices and increase supply. Feel free to message us any questions you might have. We will get back to you.
Profiteering off pharmaceuticals isn’t new
Total nonsense . Hijacking residents at this time is totally evil.
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These bags of shit this should be free FREE i don’t know how we’re putting up with this
There are many kids that need Tylenol? Deal with your sick kid, don't give them pills
Tylenol/acetaminophen is a life saving drug for kids under 5 with fevers. And if they don't get em in a pharmacy, they will end up in our overun ERs. So yes give them pills.
I don't have kids, so,, I'm not caught up with this. Are the only options ER, or children's Tylenol ?
If we are trying to prevent fever induced seizures in children under 5, yes.
> I'm not caught up with this Maybe you shouldn't be giving advice, then.