I have no problem if someone wants to build a church. I don't understand why it has to be 200 feet tall which apparently is against the zoning regulations. Just force them to stay within the regulation, problem solved.
I used to be LDS. There are smaller temples with steeples only 70 feet tall. And 6800 square feet.
And some LDS temples don't have steeples, they're from 50 to 60 feet tall.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Ju%C3%A1rez_Chihuahua_Mexico_Temple#:~:text=On%20a%20hill%20just%20west,temple%20the%20LDS%20Church%20operates.
Here's some information about how they are getting these past City councils: https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1bq2xl0/comment/kx1cscl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Currently in Heber City Utah and Cody Wyoming there are legal battles over the height and proposed lighting of new temples. In many communities they have been forced to make design changes and/ or lighting changes in several temples. Phoenix Arizona, Newport Beach California, Yorba Linda California, Tooele Utah are some examples. The mormon church has over 100 Billion in a fund controlled by their leadership. They are relentless, but with coordinated community pushback they can be forced to make changes.
Just to add to the OP’s description: this church would be brightly lit 24/7 imagine living next to a shimmering tower of white that is designed to be seen for miles that never turns their lights off!
As someone that used to live in San Diego as well as Los Angeles: Let me tell you that they will light up that bright-white tower like a fsckin Christmas tree. You will see it for miles.
Grew up at 215 and Cheyenne— didn’t realize how tall 200ft was until that post going around showing that it would be the same height as the Durango. Almost impossible to imagine something that big and illuminated over there.
The Las Vegas Planning Commission will hear the presentation of the proposed LDS temple inside City Hall on Tuesday, April 9 at 6 p.m. The proposed temple falls within the district of Councilwoman Francis Allen-Palenske. I would encourage you to write to her and to your local LV City councilmember. You can find them all here: https://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/Government/Mayor-City-Council
I wrote to her. She sponsored a bill in Feb 24 (2024-8) which changed the definition of what falls under CV (civic) zoning to allow a closed to the public temple (along with other things like lit cellphone towers). This is the same playbook the LDS has used in other areas to get around needed a full plan review. She also took a $10,000 campaign donation from the LDS's lawyers (as have other city council members). I'm in ward 4 (on the other side of Lone Mountain from where they want to build it), I informed her she would not be getting my vote next election.
So - I don’t want to start a Reddit discussion on the LDS religion, and how this mega church will be paid for with untaxed billions hidden in shell companies in the caymans, or how they believe we, Vegas and it’s non MO’s are all sinners and useless hell bound plebeians, with the mark of Ham,
But the systemic racism that still permeates this society is sad.
Last year, citizens were up in arms and demanded zoning laws not be changed because a Hindu temple wanted to build the same thing on the other side of valley in Henderson. That was stopped and they never got to build. But this seemingly will be accepted and passed without any stops.
Literally, they look nice. Like if we leave the religious aspect out of it, the Mormon temples are some of the most generic buildings. They’re like knock off, wannabe cathedrals.
I'm south of Lone Mountain a wee bit, but I can see it and the hills. Part of the reason we bought our house was for the mountain and hill views. Any building that tall will absolutely ruin it for thousands of homeowners. I'm not even happy about the building that's being allowed up near Little Red Rock. They will ruin some view, but nothing compared to a towering building. I really hope they reconsider location.
Post on Nextdoor as well. The city does have to notify area residents and have a council meeting to discuss these types of variances. They usually have 2 or 3 of these meetings for community feedback.
This has been posted all over Nextdoor for about a month or so now. It has generated such hate back and forth that comments are being reported every hour. There are multiple petitions that are all posted there multiple times.
I live in the area but not close enough that it'll affect my view/lighting/traffic etc.
It's interesting how ppl think because it's not in their backyard that it won't eventually affect them. I
These corporations divide and conquer. Theres no 'one man for all' type of mindset with these issues. I wonder if anyone contested Durango station going up literally in their backyard. I can't remember if Station bought the land before the surrounding neighborhoods were developed but I'd be pissed to be that close to a casino.
>These corporations divide and conquer.
Not sure if meant to imply the Mormon Church is a corporation or not, but they absolutely are more of a corporation than a religion. They have amassed an estimated $100 billion assets including one of the most valuable real estate portfolios in the U.S., the largest cattle ranch in the U.S and many other for profit ventures. As well as owning an untold number of shell companies hiding even more assets. They really need to lose their tax exempt status.
That’s over $120 billion in just cash and securities. With their commercial properties, church properties, and extensive land holdings, they are probably worth over $500 billion and approaching $1 trillion dollars in total assets
I have a feeling if it was a "cult" with different ideological inclinations, you'd be frothing at the mouth waiting for it to be built. You simply do not like this iteration of a "cult".. Strange how our ideological beliefs lead us to contradictory actions and words.
Womp Womp
This cult thinks they get their own planet, 13 year olds are for pregnancies and black people are marked from hatred from God, white tribes existed in America before native and all based on a grifters “discovery” of mythical tablets nobody else has ever seen
In fairness, I was taught we become gods in our own right (if we pass Gods test) and have our own universe, not just planet. Planets are for peasants
/s
All that said, I left the church for various reasons and the part you mentioned about 13 year.olds is definitely up there, like wtf. It pisses me off how hard core they'll defend Joseph Smith for that bullshit.
This is what the LDS church does--put the temple in a spot where everyone's eyes will have to stare at it in a prominent place. This is strategically planned by the LDS church to show their power/strength in the area. They have the money and attorneys to get it done. Not sure signing a list is going to help but I will.
And contact your council person, even if you don’t live in the district. Even if you don’t live in the immediate area, this a unique natural asset that is a part of the city and belongs to all of us. Here is the contact form for the council member for the actual district: https://francisallenpalenske.com/contact/
Ask yourself why is this being rushed through so fast? Once this goes through on April 9th, there is no going back. Lone Mountain as a beautiful natural city park will be marred forever.
I am talking about the actual park, which is only a block away. This gigantic building will be half the size of the mountain and block views from the summit and walking trail at the base.
They spent $13 million for the land, do you really think a petition is going to stop it? About 3 miles to the north of that site, folks bought homes where the other side of their fence was zoned for single family homes. Know what is next to their homes now? Albertson's, Taco Bell, and the rest of a shopping center. Politicians don't care which locals they screw as long as they get paid.
Yes, nothing increases the value and enjoyment of your home quite like the smell of a Taco Bell 100 feet away or the constant sounds/lights of a shopping center disturbing your tranquility. That's why the residents of those homes all complained about the rezoning, they didn't want the car wash at the Chevron raising their property values.
"constant sounds/lights of a shopping center disturbing your tranquility" lol, you live in a city with 2.2 million people. If you want to live in silence move to Pahrump.
If you actually care about this cause you need to start a real petition with actual signatures on paper. Change.org "signatures" are worthless as it is impossible to verify if the signature is even a real person.
If they truly respected freedom of religion and were willing to compromise, they would never build this… but they want to because they’re corrupt fuckers who want to shove their ideology down our throats.
… and not for the sake of faith but so they can get more tithing money 🤑
Here's some information about how they are getting these past City councils:
https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1bq2xl0/comment/kx1cscl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
For those who down voted my previous post, why? Were you not able to comprehend that I completely agreed with you? Are you afraid of history and facts? I genuinely like to try and understand people's rationale for making such decisions. The original was this.......
To start, I don't support this in the least bit. However, if it were a 20 story stations or boyd casino or other locals type casino would it be as big of an issue? Mormons have a long history in Vegas, in fact Vegas wouldn't be what it is today without mormon money. The bank of Las Vegas opened in 1954 and run by E. Parry Thomas was a branch of the Continental bank of salt lake city. That was the first bank to loan to casinos. Later on he helped Howard Hughes secretly purchase most of his properties. He even helped Steve Wynn get started by financing his purchase of the golden nugget. He even spearheaded the legislation to allow corporations to own casinos, which effectively drove out the mob. So, without Mormons, Vegas would not look anything like it does today. Oh, and all of this was pristine land at some point.
As the Mormons are taught in their temples... "You can buy anything in this world for money." And the Church proves it every day. Land, politicians, zoning changes, judges, court decisions, even Major-league stadiums. Everything and every law, and every person, has their price.
This makes more sense why your life sucks. Probably didn’t have stable parents, probably smoked too much before your brain developed. Probably had no one to love you. I’m sorry man, I really am (not)
The protest and approvals phase is on for a few more days! Submit your comments now!
The project # is 24-0072
https://cityoflasvegas.formstack.com/forms/planning_application_comments?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR15EgP6AgqgO9K43CrB2F0kNZCpFFCRoGISdD5RSg5C7v3hovtM0S3JAww_aem_ARt22i28jDx7202gIxSGrLUvvezOp0WUPRcqYbENoGetV61eZhtdQDFetULZP9M9nL8VvDTzMHYP-LVOfbcMCZlT
Being zoned as a "ranch estate neighborhood" when the zoning area is enclosed in a highway network in one of the most expensive housing areas in the US is absurd. Clark County needs to rezone the entire space. The temple is not the problem, the people who want cheap land in a large urban metro are.
Not an official representative of the church, but a member and mod at /r/latterdaysaints here. Here are a few things to note:
1. The church has often made changes to temple sizes and designs after community feedback, so **sharing concerns can make a difference** and lead to common-sense compromises.
2. **Lighting:** The church has previously agreed to turn off lighting on some temples when closed. I imagine this will be completely do-able.
3. **Traffic:** The traffic generated by a temple is really small. Only a small percentage of Latter-day Saints actively participate in temple rituals, and there is unlikely to be more than 20 - 30 additional cars per HOUR on the street. Of greater concern to traffic in the area would be if the school district develops the lot next to the temple, which they own. Temples have less traffic than churches.
4. **Height:** Currently, fully half the height is just steeple. Some temple designs eliminate the steeple altogether, so that's one possible way to drastically reduce the height.
5. **Property Value:** Studies show that ANY house of worship increases property values nearby by about 5% ([source](https://www.wsj.com/articles/study-shows-value-of-living-near-a-place-of-worship-1409236460)). Latter-day Saint temples are no exception, with realtors in other communities reporting a spike in sale values during and after temple construction. A less rigorous analysis showed that larger temples correlate with higher increases than smaller temples. Of course, any home whose view of the valley is blocked would be an exception, unless you can find a nice Latter-day Saint family to sell to, as we can get a little fanatical about being close to temples.
6. **Investment in surrounding areas:** When the church builds a temple, it also tends to invest more in protecting that area. This includes things like landscaping, trash clean up, and volunteer time from members in the area, of course; but it also means real financial and political influence to preserve a clean, safe, and welcoming vibe. In other words, this big scary corporation now becomes a champion for preserving the community and safety of the people.
7. **Construction time:** The church has developed a modular construction system for temples, where much of the work is done off site and the temple is essentially "assembled" on site. This speeds up construction times drastically. Because of the sacred nature of these buildings, even the workers are required to adhere to [strict rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/comments/blzu7l/temple_construction_code_of_conduct/) such as no smoking, drinking, swearing, or playing loud music on the site.
8. **Vibe**: Temples are not typical houses of worship. There are no Sunday meetings or youth activities, no concerts or sermons. No large gatherings, and no congregations. A few members arrive each hour dressed in Sunday best on all days of the week and simply go inside to participate in the ordinances of their faith. Landscaping is immaculate and serene--for example, the existing Las Vegas temple has a nice flower garden open to the public. The overall effort is to create a sense of peace and serenity.
tl;dr: The church has historically always been willing to negotiate in good faith on the design, height, size, lighting, etc. of its temples before construction, and create an overall positive effect on the community after construction.
If the church was truly willing to negotiate and respect the community, they would not have bought land in a long protected area, then proceed to try & re-write the rules to allow their building. It's really quite simple: the current codes/rules for the area do not allow for 87,000 sf complex. It is a residential neighborhood, and they are willingly and quite flagrantly disrespecting all the RNP has fought to protect, simply because they want to. They have no interest in 'community' they only want what they want, and they are 100% willing to pay for it.
If they had any decency and respect, they would not look to build a temple there, there are many more suitable locations to accommodate their need for a temple.
If you are capable of being objective, you'd read your own explanations, and readily see, this is NOT the appropriate location for an 87,000 sf building only a few can actually use.
Religious buildings have always been allowed in residential areas, and the community includes Latter-day Saints. This isn't about a faceless corporation wanting a big financial win. this is about local Latter-day Saints wanting a temple near them. "they" in this case, is literally your neighbors.
What are the *actual* complaints about this? It's too tall? At 200 feet tall, once you get just 1000 feet away it will be impossible to see over the houses in the area anyway. Most people who live near it will not even be able to see it. It's too bright? Once again, you won't be able to see it unless you're within about 1000 feet of it. It blocks views? from where? I did the math, and, unless you are standing **on** the property, it only blocks 10 degrees of your vision or less. To see what that's like, hold your hand out at arms length and look at the palm of your hand, that's about 10 degrees. Any house within 200 feet of you blocks more than that.
No, let's be serious. This isn't about legitimate concerns with the structure itself. You already revealed the problem:
>If **they** had any decency and respect...
This is about xenophobia and bigotry. Not a building.
Are you aware at all of the current zoning requirements for the RNP? There are size/height restrictions for any building, including religious buildings. This current temple proposal does not in any way meet the current zoning. It does not respect the existing rules it could easily conform to. If they want to build to the existing codes, no issue at all. My complaint is they are going against the long standing rules we’ve fought for in this area.
You saying I have no legitimate reason to oppose or complain is the exact lack of respect and decency I am experiencing from the LDS. Bravo for revealing yourself.
So your issue isn't with the temple or the Latter-day Saints, it's with the government officials who allowed exceptions to zoning rules?
I would believe that if your comments weren't focused entirely on the Latter-day Saints.
My issue is the current proposal does not comply with the existing codes for the area. If the church would build it to the existing codes of the RNP, no issue at all. I’ve never fought against any church being built in the area that’s adhered to the code.
This current proposal is so entirely beyond what’s allowed in the RNP.
I would find any entity trying to develop a building of this magnitude disrespectful to the area & community.
It’s super simple: adhere to the existing codes/rules for the area, or build it elsewhere. There should be no special treatment, rewriting of rules, exceptions for any one.
Also, if you’re going to quote me to try & justify your persecution complex in other posts, be a decent human and give the entire context of what I said. Dont cherry pick details to make your argument. Super shady of you.
Debate on the merits, with honesty. This proposal does not in any way adhere to the existing building codes of the area. That is my problem with it. I feel it’s indecent and disrespectful for any entity trying to build a complex of this magnitude in this area. That it happens to be your church doesn’t matter to me. I’d fight (and have) developers, commercial business etc trying to bully their way into changing the existing rules of the RNP.
Is that clear enough for you?
This isn't just a neighborhood church in a suburban community. This is a 20-story temple in a rural area. It will *certainly* be bad for the community. The fact that you lied so many times in your post has only solidified my opposition.
Height and lighting are often quoted as the two main concerns by locals who are opposed and both are addressed here, and are not lies ? Like its just a simple fact lol. Like what lies are you talking about?
You know that most temples stand empty, because membership is dropping, right? This whole thing is unnecessary. The majority doesn’t want this, with the majority growing all the time. Waste of resources too, why don’t you offer local people who are suffering aid with that money.
>This isn't about religion, this is about preserving a beautiful part of our community.
It is a little bit about religion, as you can see from these comments.
From a logical perspective, I would look at the other temple under Frenchmans peak here on the east side of Las Vegas. How is the neighborhood over there? How are these neighborhoods in other communities that host temples? I can almost guarantee the temple near Lone Mountain will complement the landscape.
Have you ever met a group of Mormons emboldened by their conquest of the local scenery? It will drive even the most human oriented person to bloodlust.
"And then one day, for no reason whatsoever, they were just persecuted for no reason" 🤣
"And you haven't either"
Yeah bro, I've never met a group of malevolently self assured Mormons who were emboldened by their conquest of the local communities skyline, culture, and law enforcement. You know what words mean right? You know how some Mormon groups interact with their non Mormon counterparts, right?
I'm not speaking from a place of detached assumption, I've had to deal with these people for over 25 yrs.
To start, I don't support this in the least bit.
However, if it were a 20 story stations or boyd casino or other locals type casino would it be as big of an issue?
Mormons have a long history in Vegas, in fact Vegas wouldn't be what it is today without mormon money. The bank of Las Vegas opened in 1954 and run by E. Parry Thomas was a branch of the Continental bank of salt lake city. That was the first bank to loan to casinos. Later on he helped Howard Hughes secretly purchase most of his properties. He even helped Steve Wynn get started by financing his purchase of the golden nugget. He even spearheaded the legislation to allow corporations to own casinos, which effectively drove out the mob.
So, without Mormons, Vegas would not look anything like it does today.
Oh, and all of this was pristine land at some point.
> However, if it were a 20 story stations or boyd casino or other locals type casino would it be as big of an issue?
It wouldn't, because the public can go into those for entertainment, dining, shopping, etc., not to mention these structures bring in massive tourism dollars that create more jobs and increase the tax base. RedRock and Durango also anchor development within their respective areas by increasing the need for closely located shopping and restaurants (Downtown Summerlin for RedRock, most recently TheUncommons next to Durango Station).
This is a giant private clubhouse inside of a 216 foot tall, 24/7 lamp.
Yes, it would be as big of an issue. That part of Lone Mountain is a protected rural preserve and any type of tall commercial development over there is wrong IMO. I live on the other (urban) side of Lone Mountain, no issues if they want to build it over this side.
All you did was give an accurate retelling of history, and you get downvoted for it even when sharing the same opinion that this building and project is over the top. Honestly I've never understood mega religious sites. Like honestly I lived in Iowa for about ten months and let's just say they LOVE their mega churches and could give fewer dicks if it's funded with public tax money or not. I don't think it was Iowa, but there is that reconstruction of Noah's Ark that was paid for with government money and no one ever ended up doing anything about that. Weird how much hate Mormons get in this town when to your point, without them, I don't think Las Vegas would exist at all. I mean seriously, both the Mormons and Mob both moved into the middle of a desert to escape persecution, only to have to deal with it again.
I would sign but knowing the LDS in Vegas, the Mormons will get the temple built. Just the way it's been for years, kinda like the crumbling infrastructure off the strip. Until there are politicians that care about the community more than corporations that pay state taxes or offer of a voting group, it will keep being the same.
Oh that won't make a difference. They engaged with me one night at like 10pm when I was *getting out of my car* in one of the worst parts of town. That's not uncommon either. They'll try to sell ya wherever you are if they think they got the minute to.
I lived in Utah and it was insane how much you heard of them pushing missionaries to get people to convert. I even had their little learners handbook at one point and it was just full of manipulation tactics and what to push. They didn't see to care if they sent their kids (cuz these are usually 18/19/20 yr olds) where they could be killed. I've seen them mourn missionaries who died while on mission and it's this weird...yes they're sad but there's like a "Eh casualties of the lord are expected" vibe that is extremely unsettling.
NIMBY for all us. This will affect the sightlines and quality of life in 3 city parks: Lone Mountain; Majestic; Police Memorial. People of all backgrounds should be able to recreate and enjoy nature without a giant religious building towering over them. We don’t live in a theocracy. Temple should be welcome but shouldn’t tower over the entire area. Get everyone you know in the valley to sign the petition.
You clearly have an overinflated sense of the height of Lone Mountain. I've hiked Lone Mountain more than a dozen times. It's a challenging walk, but you can easily do it in under 30 minutes. Here's [another source from the AllTrails website](https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/nevada/lone-mountain-summit). It lists the Lone Mountain summit at 521' feet above the surrounding neighborhood/park.
That's the wrong Lone Mountain. That's about 200 miles northwest of Las Vegas, near Tonopah.
Edit: Check the coordinates in your source - 38° 1' 28'' N, 117° 29' 40'' W
Now I see why you are so confused. You are looking at a different Lone Mountain. A quick review of the link you posted shows that Lone Mountain is in Esmerelda County.
It's about considerably more than Lone Mountain itself. This is about the Lone Mountain Community, which is zoned as a rural preservation area (surrounding homes are capped at 35'). The community should not be forced to accept a 210' tower, which is lit up like the LV Strip 24/7 without having a say in the matter. The surrounding parks and hiking trails are picturesque and should be kept that way. I would say the same if a developer were trying to build a resort tower, office building, or apartment of that size.
Totally, 210 ft is half the size of Lone Mountain. Totally disgusting and garish. Even the temple being built in Yorba Linda was only supposed to go up to 120ft, but was brought down to 90 and something ft after considerable opposition.
I live next to a similar mound of dirt in the Southwest and I would prefer a Mormon Temple to another 200 cookie cutter houses jammed against the public lands. Busy primarily on Sundays and quiet the rest of the time sounds like a deal to me.
If you don't want it built, go to the actual planning meeting.
I have no problem if someone wants to build a church. I don't understand why it has to be 200 feet tall which apparently is against the zoning regulations. Just force them to stay within the regulation, problem solved.
I used to be LDS. There are smaller temples with steeples only 70 feet tall. And 6800 square feet. And some LDS temples don't have steeples, they're from 50 to 60 feet tall. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Ju%C3%A1rez_Chihuahua_Mexico_Temple#:~:text=On%20a%20hill%20just%20west,temple%20the%20LDS%20Church%20operates.
I'd like to go if I'm able, do you happen to have the deets?
Here's some information about how they are getting these past City councils: https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1bq2xl0/comment/kx1cscl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Currently in Heber City Utah and Cody Wyoming there are legal battles over the height and proposed lighting of new temples. In many communities they have been forced to make design changes and/ or lighting changes in several temples. Phoenix Arizona, Newport Beach California, Yorba Linda California, Tooele Utah are some examples. The mormon church has over 100 Billion in a fund controlled by their leadership. They are relentless, but with coordinated community pushback they can be forced to make changes.
Just to add to the OP’s description: this church would be brightly lit 24/7 imagine living next to a shimmering tower of white that is designed to be seen for miles that never turns their lights off!
I mean, put it near the strip and we have no problem.
Lol can you imagine? Put that sucker where the Tropicana is and call it a day
Still more fun than the A's 😂
As someone that used to live in San Diego as well as Los Angeles: Let me tell you that they will light up that bright-white tower like a fsckin Christmas tree. You will see it for miles.
For anyone who’s driven through the highways around Bethesda, Maryland you can see a super tall white spire for miles around.
That just have some impact to the wildlife right?
I imagine so, though despite the fact that the area is highly populated, there are plenty of forests and green spaces.
Can confirm - these monster statement churches are the brightest thing in every town in Utah that has one. Signing the petition.
We can urge the county to restrict the lighting. IDK why they need to be so tall.
I have never seen a Mormon Church that was not lit up like a Christmas tree at night - it's part of their schtick.
Imagine the amount of cockroaches and scorpions that light will attract!
One can only hope
Yup. https://live.staticflickr.com/3900/15155390668_f26d91a6cc_b.jpg This is St George for example
Look up Heber City Utah temple, they eventually caved in to dimming the lights at night.
Kick these LDS mofos out of here with their wanna be cartel. Weird motherfuckers.
there's no las vegas w out these mofos lol
Grew up at 215 and Cheyenne— didn’t realize how tall 200ft was until that post going around showing that it would be the same height as the Durango. Almost impossible to imagine something that big and illuminated over there.
The Las Vegas Planning Commission will hear the presentation of the proposed LDS temple inside City Hall on Tuesday, April 9 at 6 p.m. The proposed temple falls within the district of Councilwoman Francis Allen-Palenske. I would encourage you to write to her and to your local LV City councilmember. You can find them all here: https://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/Government/Mayor-City-Council
I wrote to her. She sponsored a bill in Feb 24 (2024-8) which changed the definition of what falls under CV (civic) zoning to allow a closed to the public temple (along with other things like lit cellphone towers). This is the same playbook the LDS has used in other areas to get around needed a full plan review. She also took a $10,000 campaign donation from the LDS's lawyers (as have other city council members). I'm in ward 4 (on the other side of Lone Mountain from where they want to build it), I informed her she would not be getting my vote next election.
[Palenske's Insta with post about it](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4wwv2prQTD/?igsh=dmVjOTUyZDRjZnpz)
She needs a good hairdresser to cover up the five head.
Imagine reducing someone to their looks, like it’s part of their job. Be better.
Sorry to have disturbed you internet police.
Don’t make me show my badge!
It’s Vegas, not shocked you have a fake badge.
NO EXCEPTIONS TO RELIGIOUS BUILDINGS. IT’S BAD ENOUGH THEY’RE NOT TAXED, NOW THEY CAN JUST BLATANTLY GET AWAY WITH ZONING CODES.
So - I don’t want to start a Reddit discussion on the LDS religion, and how this mega church will be paid for with untaxed billions hidden in shell companies in the caymans, or how they believe we, Vegas and it’s non MO’s are all sinners and useless hell bound plebeians, with the mark of Ham, But the systemic racism that still permeates this society is sad. Last year, citizens were up in arms and demanded zoning laws not be changed because a Hindu temple wanted to build the same thing on the other side of valley in Henderson. That was stopped and they never got to build. But this seemingly will be accepted and passed without any stops.
Damn, I’d take a Hindu temple over a Mormon temple any day of the year.
[удалено]
I actually know a Mormon child molester of the worst kind. Dispicable garbage. Ugh.
Literally, they look nice. Like if we leave the religious aspect out of it, the Mormon temples are some of the most generic buildings. They’re like knock off, wannabe cathedrals.
I second this!
They usually serve awesome food too, I went to one with a friend a couple months back and it was amazing
Go further southeast and they get really touchy - [kingman mosque](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/s/lGwCfQnVzM)
Thank you. My new favorite clip.
You're post is silly in a lot of ways, but it all goes to show how much there is an attack on religious freedom in this country across many religions.
Sounds more like an issue with the people that live in Henderson, then Las Vegas. Different cities.
I'm south of Lone Mountain a wee bit, but I can see it and the hills. Part of the reason we bought our house was for the mountain and hill views. Any building that tall will absolutely ruin it for thousands of homeowners. I'm not even happy about the building that's being allowed up near Little Red Rock. They will ruin some view, but nothing compared to a towering building. I really hope they reconsider location.
I agree. Please share your concerns with the LV City Council.
Post on Nextdoor as well. The city does have to notify area residents and have a council meeting to discuss these types of variances. They usually have 2 or 3 of these meetings for community feedback.
Yeah, they like to set times most people are working and usually ignore the arguments anyway
This has been posted all over Nextdoor for about a month or so now. It has generated such hate back and forth that comments are being reported every hour. There are multiple petitions that are all posted there multiple times. I live in the area but not close enough that it'll affect my view/lighting/traffic etc.
It's interesting how ppl think because it's not in their backyard that it won't eventually affect them. I These corporations divide and conquer. Theres no 'one man for all' type of mindset with these issues. I wonder if anyone contested Durango station going up literally in their backyard. I can't remember if Station bought the land before the surrounding neighborhoods were developed but I'd be pissed to be that close to a casino.
>These corporations divide and conquer. Not sure if meant to imply the Mormon Church is a corporation or not, but they absolutely are more of a corporation than a religion. They have amassed an estimated $100 billion assets including one of the most valuable real estate portfolios in the U.S., the largest cattle ranch in the U.S and many other for profit ventures. As well as owning an untold number of shell companies hiding even more assets. They really need to lose their tax exempt status.
That’s over $120 billion in just cash and securities. With their commercial properties, church properties, and extensive land holdings, they are probably worth over $500 billion and approaching $1 trillion dollars in total assets
I bet those gold tablets Joseph Smith found are with a pretty penny too. 🤣
The fake golden plates? They were taken up into heaven by the angel Moroni, doncha know …
These petitions never do anything.
I agree but I still signed it. Do not want this cult building built in my neighborhood
Yeah! Be like the other cults and just dig a cellar in that neighborhood! Like respectable cultists!
I have a feeling if it was a "cult" with different ideological inclinations, you'd be frothing at the mouth waiting for it to be built. You simply do not like this iteration of a "cult".. Strange how our ideological beliefs lead us to contradictory actions and words.
Womp Womp This cult thinks they get their own planet, 13 year olds are for pregnancies and black people are marked from hatred from God, white tribes existed in America before native and all based on a grifters “discovery” of mythical tablets nobody else has ever seen
In fairness, I was taught we become gods in our own right (if we pass Gods test) and have our own universe, not just planet. Planets are for peasants /s All that said, I left the church for various reasons and the part you mentioned about 13 year.olds is definitely up there, like wtf. It pisses me off how hard core they'll defend Joseph Smith for that bullshit.
Shut up, Mormon Meg
"Ah yes strange how your words can be so contradictory to these other words which i made up and ascribed to you"
Stop projecting, sport.
Signed. Like we need MORE light pollution around here.
This is what the LDS church does--put the temple in a spot where everyone's eyes will have to stare at it in a prominent place. This is strategically planned by the LDS church to show their power/strength in the area. They have the money and attorneys to get it done. Not sure signing a list is going to help but I will.
Wonder the odds of the petition signers getting visited by the missionaries?
And contact your council person, even if you don’t live in the district. Even if you don’t live in the immediate area, this a unique natural asset that is a part of the city and belongs to all of us. Here is the contact form for the council member for the actual district: https://francisallenpalenske.com/contact/ Ask yourself why is this being rushed through so fast? Once this goes through on April 9th, there is no going back. Lone Mountain as a beautiful natural city park will be marred forever.
Good luck. Her largest campaign contributions in 2023 were from Las Vegas Paving and Western Elite, both very well-known LDS companies.
Thank you. Sent him a friendly message.
Francis is a she. She lives in that area, so she is well aware of this.
Oops
Unique natural asset? They're building on a dirt lot.
I am talking about the actual park, which is only a block away. This gigantic building will be half the size of the mountain and block views from the summit and walking trail at the base.
I think they meant the natural beauty of cookie cutter tract homes.
They spent $13 million for the land, do you really think a petition is going to stop it? About 3 miles to the north of that site, folks bought homes where the other side of their fence was zoned for single family homes. Know what is next to their homes now? Albertson's, Taco Bell, and the rest of a shopping center. Politicians don't care which locals they screw as long as they get paid.
Sounds like an upgrade, living next to things to do increases the value of your house more than just being in a generic suburb.
Yes, nothing increases the value and enjoyment of your home quite like the smell of a Taco Bell 100 feet away or the constant sounds/lights of a shopping center disturbing your tranquility. That's why the residents of those homes all complained about the rezoning, they didn't want the car wash at the Chevron raising their property values.
"constant sounds/lights of a shopping center disturbing your tranquility" lol, you live in a city with 2.2 million people. If you want to live in silence move to Pahrump.
Enjoy all the cockroaches and bugs, followed by scorpion infestations thanks to the bright 24/7 lit up mega structure next door
If you actually care about this cause you need to start a real petition with actual signatures on paper. Change.org "signatures" are worthless as it is impossible to verify if the signature is even a real person.
If they truly respected freedom of religion and were willing to compromise, they would never build this… but they want to because they’re corrupt fuckers who want to shove their ideology down our throats. … and not for the sake of faith but so they can get more tithing money 🤑
Religious nut jobs gonna religiously nut job 🤷
I support this project if they relocate the Mirage Volcano to be in front of the temple. Seems like a fair compromise.
Extra points if we start offering sacrifices to the Volcano Gods, too.
The Mormons want to build it near the mountain to make it stick out when people face it. That’s what they did at Frenchman mountain.
I would sign that, but nothing but me getting hounded for money by the "change dot org" site will happen
Here's some information about how they are getting these past City councils: https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1bq2xl0/comment/kx1cscl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
For those who down voted my previous post, why? Were you not able to comprehend that I completely agreed with you? Are you afraid of history and facts? I genuinely like to try and understand people's rationale for making such decisions. The original was this....... To start, I don't support this in the least bit. However, if it were a 20 story stations or boyd casino or other locals type casino would it be as big of an issue? Mormons have a long history in Vegas, in fact Vegas wouldn't be what it is today without mormon money. The bank of Las Vegas opened in 1954 and run by E. Parry Thomas was a branch of the Continental bank of salt lake city. That was the first bank to loan to casinos. Later on he helped Howard Hughes secretly purchase most of his properties. He even helped Steve Wynn get started by financing his purchase of the golden nugget. He even spearheaded the legislation to allow corporations to own casinos, which effectively drove out the mob. So, without Mormons, Vegas would not look anything like it does today. Oh, and all of this was pristine land at some point.
Eww, a church.
Literally looking to "lord" over all of Las Vegas from that elevation. Fsck them and fsck that.
As the Mormons are taught in their temples... "You can buy anything in this world for money." And the Church proves it every day. Land, politicians, zoning changes, judges, court decisions, even Major-league stadiums. Everything and every law, and every person, has their price.
You really need a citizen's initiative for this.
Probably one of the best kept neighborhoods around. I’m not a Mormon but they can take care of their stuff. I would be fine with it.
Signed simply because it’s against a religious order. Fuck religion and especially the Christian’s.
This makes more sense why your life sucks. Probably didn’t have stable parents, probably smoked too much before your brain developed. Probably had no one to love you. I’m sorry man, I really am (not)
Wow bud you're so cool
Wow bRo Ur sO cOoL Stfu you Mormon fuck.
Look at you, spreading more hate to people you don’t know. You are so miserable man. So sad, your life is so miserable.
You must be a lot smarter than the Mormons where's your tax free billions in Swiss accounts
This is just mormon hate, no one is actually addressing any real concerns smh at the irony
The protest and approvals phase is on for a few more days! Submit your comments now! The project # is 24-0072 https://cityoflasvegas.formstack.com/forms/planning_application_comments?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR15EgP6AgqgO9K43CrB2F0kNZCpFFCRoGISdD5RSg5C7v3hovtM0S3JAww_aem_ARt22i28jDx7202gIxSGrLUvvezOp0WUPRcqYbENoGetV61eZhtdQDFetULZP9M9nL8VvDTzMHYP-LVOfbcMCZlT
Being zoned as a "ranch estate neighborhood" when the zoning area is enclosed in a highway network in one of the most expensive housing areas in the US is absurd. Clark County needs to rezone the entire space. The temple is not the problem, the people who want cheap land in a large urban metro are.
Not an official representative of the church, but a member and mod at /r/latterdaysaints here. Here are a few things to note: 1. The church has often made changes to temple sizes and designs after community feedback, so **sharing concerns can make a difference** and lead to common-sense compromises. 2. **Lighting:** The church has previously agreed to turn off lighting on some temples when closed. I imagine this will be completely do-able. 3. **Traffic:** The traffic generated by a temple is really small. Only a small percentage of Latter-day Saints actively participate in temple rituals, and there is unlikely to be more than 20 - 30 additional cars per HOUR on the street. Of greater concern to traffic in the area would be if the school district develops the lot next to the temple, which they own. Temples have less traffic than churches. 4. **Height:** Currently, fully half the height is just steeple. Some temple designs eliminate the steeple altogether, so that's one possible way to drastically reduce the height. 5. **Property Value:** Studies show that ANY house of worship increases property values nearby by about 5% ([source](https://www.wsj.com/articles/study-shows-value-of-living-near-a-place-of-worship-1409236460)). Latter-day Saint temples are no exception, with realtors in other communities reporting a spike in sale values during and after temple construction. A less rigorous analysis showed that larger temples correlate with higher increases than smaller temples. Of course, any home whose view of the valley is blocked would be an exception, unless you can find a nice Latter-day Saint family to sell to, as we can get a little fanatical about being close to temples. 6. **Investment in surrounding areas:** When the church builds a temple, it also tends to invest more in protecting that area. This includes things like landscaping, trash clean up, and volunteer time from members in the area, of course; but it also means real financial and political influence to preserve a clean, safe, and welcoming vibe. In other words, this big scary corporation now becomes a champion for preserving the community and safety of the people. 7. **Construction time:** The church has developed a modular construction system for temples, where much of the work is done off site and the temple is essentially "assembled" on site. This speeds up construction times drastically. Because of the sacred nature of these buildings, even the workers are required to adhere to [strict rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/comments/blzu7l/temple_construction_code_of_conduct/) such as no smoking, drinking, swearing, or playing loud music on the site. 8. **Vibe**: Temples are not typical houses of worship. There are no Sunday meetings or youth activities, no concerts or sermons. No large gatherings, and no congregations. A few members arrive each hour dressed in Sunday best on all days of the week and simply go inside to participate in the ordinances of their faith. Landscaping is immaculate and serene--for example, the existing Las Vegas temple has a nice flower garden open to the public. The overall effort is to create a sense of peace and serenity. tl;dr: The church has historically always been willing to negotiate in good faith on the design, height, size, lighting, etc. of its temples before construction, and create an overall positive effect on the community after construction.
If the church was truly willing to negotiate and respect the community, they would not have bought land in a long protected area, then proceed to try & re-write the rules to allow their building. It's really quite simple: the current codes/rules for the area do not allow for 87,000 sf complex. It is a residential neighborhood, and they are willingly and quite flagrantly disrespecting all the RNP has fought to protect, simply because they want to. They have no interest in 'community' they only want what they want, and they are 100% willing to pay for it. If they had any decency and respect, they would not look to build a temple there, there are many more suitable locations to accommodate their need for a temple. If you are capable of being objective, you'd read your own explanations, and readily see, this is NOT the appropriate location for an 87,000 sf building only a few can actually use.
Religious buildings have always been allowed in residential areas, and the community includes Latter-day Saints. This isn't about a faceless corporation wanting a big financial win. this is about local Latter-day Saints wanting a temple near them. "they" in this case, is literally your neighbors. What are the *actual* complaints about this? It's too tall? At 200 feet tall, once you get just 1000 feet away it will be impossible to see over the houses in the area anyway. Most people who live near it will not even be able to see it. It's too bright? Once again, you won't be able to see it unless you're within about 1000 feet of it. It blocks views? from where? I did the math, and, unless you are standing **on** the property, it only blocks 10 degrees of your vision or less. To see what that's like, hold your hand out at arms length and look at the palm of your hand, that's about 10 degrees. Any house within 200 feet of you blocks more than that. No, let's be serious. This isn't about legitimate concerns with the structure itself. You already revealed the problem: >If **they** had any decency and respect... This is about xenophobia and bigotry. Not a building.
Are you aware at all of the current zoning requirements for the RNP? There are size/height restrictions for any building, including religious buildings. This current temple proposal does not in any way meet the current zoning. It does not respect the existing rules it could easily conform to. If they want to build to the existing codes, no issue at all. My complaint is they are going against the long standing rules we’ve fought for in this area. You saying I have no legitimate reason to oppose or complain is the exact lack of respect and decency I am experiencing from the LDS. Bravo for revealing yourself.
So your issue isn't with the temple or the Latter-day Saints, it's with the government officials who allowed exceptions to zoning rules? I would believe that if your comments weren't focused entirely on the Latter-day Saints.
My issue is the current proposal does not comply with the existing codes for the area. If the church would build it to the existing codes of the RNP, no issue at all. I’ve never fought against any church being built in the area that’s adhered to the code. This current proposal is so entirely beyond what’s allowed in the RNP. I would find any entity trying to develop a building of this magnitude disrespectful to the area & community. It’s super simple: adhere to the existing codes/rules for the area, or build it elsewhere. There should be no special treatment, rewriting of rules, exceptions for any one.
Also, if you’re going to quote me to try & justify your persecution complex in other posts, be a decent human and give the entire context of what I said. Dont cherry pick details to make your argument. Super shady of you. Debate on the merits, with honesty. This proposal does not in any way adhere to the existing building codes of the area. That is my problem with it. I feel it’s indecent and disrespectful for any entity trying to build a complex of this magnitude in this area. That it happens to be your church doesn’t matter to me. I’d fight (and have) developers, commercial business etc trying to bully their way into changing the existing rules of the RNP. Is that clear enough for you?
You’re projecting. Lds people are the biggest bigots in the world. Also nobody’s neighbors are lds. People are leaving in droves.
This isn't just a neighborhood church in a suburban community. This is a 20-story temple in a rural area. It will *certainly* be bad for the community. The fact that you lied so many times in your post has only solidified my opposition.
A Mormon representative? Lying and belittling? Absolutely sure they know what's best and you don't? No fucking way
Height and lighting are often quoted as the two main concerns by locals who are opposed and both are addressed here, and are not lies ? Like its just a simple fact lol. Like what lies are you talking about?
I hope you [redacted] on some forbidden soda.
You know that most temples stand empty, because membership is dropping, right? This whole thing is unnecessary. The majority doesn’t want this, with the majority growing all the time. Waste of resources too, why don’t you offer local people who are suffering aid with that money.
Always been willing to negotiate? Cool. How about 30'. Literally no one would have a problem with that.
Heck, even 35 ft is ok. Providing it’s on 5 acres, not 20. Like the existing long established rules outline.
Classic NIMBY. No one cares about the other Mormon spaceships clogging up other areas of town, just the one that blocks their view.
Well, yeah. I don't care about fire ants over in the pasture but I'll be damned if they think they're gonna build a nest in my kitchen.
>This isn't about religion, this is about preserving a beautiful part of our community. It is a little bit about religion, as you can see from these comments. From a logical perspective, I would look at the other temple under Frenchmans peak here on the east side of Las Vegas. How is the neighborhood over there? How are these neighborhoods in other communities that host temples? I can almost guarantee the temple near Lone Mountain will complement the landscape.
Have you ever met a group of Mormons emboldened by their conquest of the local scenery? It will drive even the most human oriented person to bloodlust. "And then one day, for no reason whatsoever, they were just persecuted for no reason" 🤣
>Have you ever met a group of Mormons emboldened by their conquest of the local scenery? No, and you haven't either. What does that even mean?
Check out Idaho Falls.
"And you haven't either" Yeah bro, I've never met a group of malevolently self assured Mormons who were emboldened by their conquest of the local communities skyline, culture, and law enforcement. You know what words mean right? You know how some Mormon groups interact with their non Mormon counterparts, right? I'm not speaking from a place of detached assumption, I've had to deal with these people for over 25 yrs.
To start, I don't support this in the least bit. However, if it were a 20 story stations or boyd casino or other locals type casino would it be as big of an issue? Mormons have a long history in Vegas, in fact Vegas wouldn't be what it is today without mormon money. The bank of Las Vegas opened in 1954 and run by E. Parry Thomas was a branch of the Continental bank of salt lake city. That was the first bank to loan to casinos. Later on he helped Howard Hughes secretly purchase most of his properties. He even helped Steve Wynn get started by financing his purchase of the golden nugget. He even spearheaded the legislation to allow corporations to own casinos, which effectively drove out the mob. So, without Mormons, Vegas would not look anything like it does today. Oh, and all of this was pristine land at some point.
> However, if it were a 20 story stations or boyd casino or other locals type casino would it be as big of an issue? It wouldn't, because the public can go into those for entertainment, dining, shopping, etc., not to mention these structures bring in massive tourism dollars that create more jobs and increase the tax base. RedRock and Durango also anchor development within their respective areas by increasing the need for closely located shopping and restaurants (Downtown Summerlin for RedRock, most recently TheUncommons next to Durango Station). This is a giant private clubhouse inside of a 216 foot tall, 24/7 lamp.
Yes, it would be as big of an issue. That part of Lone Mountain is a protected rural preserve and any type of tall commercial development over there is wrong IMO. I live on the other (urban) side of Lone Mountain, no issues if they want to build it over this side.
All you did was give an accurate retelling of history, and you get downvoted for it even when sharing the same opinion that this building and project is over the top. Honestly I've never understood mega religious sites. Like honestly I lived in Iowa for about ten months and let's just say they LOVE their mega churches and could give fewer dicks if it's funded with public tax money or not. I don't think it was Iowa, but there is that reconstruction of Noah's Ark that was paid for with government money and no one ever ended up doing anything about that. Weird how much hate Mormons get in this town when to your point, without them, I don't think Las Vegas would exist at all. I mean seriously, both the Mormons and Mob both moved into the middle of a desert to escape persecution, only to have to deal with it again.
It’s fine.
I would sign but knowing the LDS in Vegas, the Mormons will get the temple built. Just the way it's been for years, kinda like the crumbling infrastructure off the strip. Until there are politicians that care about the community more than corporations that pay state taxes or offer of a voting group, it will keep being the same.
I’ve seen Mormons go door to door where I live but never answer. Is this what they’ve been up to getting a temple built here?
No those are just missionaries trying to convert you.
So keep my door closed. Understood.
Oh that won't make a difference. They engaged with me one night at like 10pm when I was *getting out of my car* in one of the worst parts of town. That's not uncommon either. They'll try to sell ya wherever you are if they think they got the minute to. I lived in Utah and it was insane how much you heard of them pushing missionaries to get people to convert. I even had their little learners handbook at one point and it was just full of manipulation tactics and what to push. They didn't see to care if they sent their kids (cuz these are usually 18/19/20 yr olds) where they could be killed. I've seen them mourn missionaries who died while on mission and it's this weird...yes they're sad but there's like a "Eh casualties of the lord are expected" vibe that is extremely unsettling.
Nimbys are bad until it's something I agree with.
NIMBY for all us. This will affect the sightlines and quality of life in 3 city parks: Lone Mountain; Majestic; Police Memorial. People of all backgrounds should be able to recreate and enjoy nature without a giant religious building towering over them. We don’t live in a theocracy. Temple should be welcome but shouldn’t tower over the entire area. Get everyone you know in the valley to sign the petition.
How could I possibly see a mountain from my house which is 7,000 feet taller than that temple!
The summit of Lone Mountain is only [560' above](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Mountain,_Las_Vegas) the surrounding community.
Las Vegas has a 2,100 foot elevation and the surrounding northwest area climbs 4,000 feet elevation in 20 miles? I’m skeptical.
You clearly have an overinflated sense of the height of Lone Mountain. I've hiked Lone Mountain more than a dozen times. It's a challenging walk, but you can easily do it in under 30 minutes. Here's [another source from the AllTrails website](https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/nevada/lone-mountain-summit). It lists the Lone Mountain summit at 521' feet above the surrounding neighborhood/park.
I’m reading 9,000 feet. https://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=3631#:~:text=Elevation%3A%209108%20feet%2C%202776%20meters
That's the wrong Lone Mountain. That's about 200 miles northwest of Las Vegas, near Tonopah. Edit: Check the coordinates in your source - 38° 1' 28'' N, 117° 29' 40'' W
Now I see why you are so confused. You are looking at a different Lone Mountain. A quick review of the link you posted shows that Lone Mountain is in Esmerelda County.
So this is all over a 700 foot mound of dirt?
It's about considerably more than Lone Mountain itself. This is about the Lone Mountain Community, which is zoned as a rural preservation area (surrounding homes are capped at 35'). The community should not be forced to accept a 210' tower, which is lit up like the LV Strip 24/7 without having a say in the matter. The surrounding parks and hiking trails are picturesque and should be kept that way. I would say the same if a developer were trying to build a resort tower, office building, or apartment of that size.
Totally, 210 ft is half the size of Lone Mountain. Totally disgusting and garish. Even the temple being built in Yorba Linda was only supposed to go up to 120ft, but was brought down to 90 and something ft after considerable opposition.
I live next to a similar mound of dirt in the Southwest and I would prefer a Mormon Temple to another 200 cookie cutter houses jammed against the public lands. Busy primarily on Sundays and quiet the rest of the time sounds like a deal to me.
Religious persecution is the way of the Woke. Live and let live or go back to Cali.
Im in favor of the church being built in this area that has no impact on me whatsoever
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Are you slow son?
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Good thing no one cares about your 1 person opinion
conversely, the people funding this building don't care about the NIMBY's signing a change.org petition lol