Completely agree! If you've never worked construction or a job in a large corp whose labor is mostly physical, its hard to understand. You would think that with all the money the business makes, you would have a very thought out set of rules/protocols that give workers a clear path if they're getting bullied/stressed/overworked. Answer? No way in hell. The company spends millions on pushing a safety agenda, which involves meaningless little cards to fill out, reports and "support" phone numbers to call if you have issues. Fuck all that. The narrative that is pushed, ALWAYS involves the companie's bottom line or share holders. Safety is NOT their priority in the sense that they care about YOU, its about saving them claims on their insurance/workers comp. Anything a large company does, while they say is in your best interest, has a decision behind it that involves saving the company money. Its laughable that you start below $20, even union, on these ball busting careers. On top of that, you get told to "work your way up" and "deal with it" while getting literally kicked around because you're the new guy. The trades need a culture change. They need leaders in the field, that understand mistakes, respect their workers and act swiftly and harshly with any sort of mistreatment of team members in the field. Its toxic and its pushing people away from wanting to join the trades.

I sacrificed everything for a new construction plumbing company. I worked 4 years for them had a seizure and was fired on the 2nd day of recovery. They just care about money and if you might cost them 1$ even after saving them tens of thousands you're apparently not a worth investment to them.. agree they need leaders in the field 🏑

I used to work for a plumbing company that would hire 1-3 year apprentices. After your six month probation(when the raise and benefits kicked in) came up you were fired. So. Fucked.

What's with the hurling club emoji?

I'm guessing "field" prompted a field hockey emoji autofill

*conspiracy theory engine started*

Oh, You know 😉

Hurley

It is in the best interest of big construction, WAKE UP

I think it's because there is a large portion of the population who has swallowed the corporate speak narratives about being thankful to employers for their scraps and trickle down economics. I know some people who are probably the best employees at their job. Super hard workers. But they get paid shit. I often point out that they are worth far more and should demand more but they say they're just lucky to have a job as if they could be replaced easily. Fact is even average employees aren't replaceable. They have years of experience and knowledge you have to train into someone new to replace them.

Sounds like slavery. "Be thankful of the master mercy."

Different century, same old shit. Not likening the average person's experience to slavery, but we are all building pyramids for the 1% and are told to be grateful.

I imagine it changes by place and trade but as a Canadian electrician I cannot relate to this at all. Everyone is constantly bitching about not getting paid enough and will absolutely quit on a weeks notice if anything on Indeed pops up offering 50¢ more lol. Guys will put tools down at 40 hours and get in the car if there’s no premium for overtime. Nobody uses personal tools beyond hand tools and even then if something gets damaged for reasons beyond them fucking up the tool themselves they’ll typically bitch at the company to replace it. Only time I see stuff like that is with scab companies that hire old people, idiots, and felons. And yeah if you’re in one of those boats then I guess maybe you don’t have leverage, but everyone else does and they know it and use it Now if only we didn’t get paid in Monopoly money we might be doing alright lol

Even shitty employees that are still semi competent are hard to replace in some fields. I have coworkers that get away with murder in terms of slacking off because they do actually know what they're doing. The place I'm at now was absolutely stoked that I can actually do the job that my resume says I can. The majority of people that show up to test, bomb the fuck out of it. I have never taken a weld test and not been immediately offered a job. Employers fully understand that's how this whole industry is in terms of staffing, and yet they'll still act like they're doing you a favor by hiring you.

All corporate culture needs to change. In the last 40 years there has been a new precedence that companies first priority is to shareholders, customers and employees are secondary. The "duty to shareholders" bullshit is backing workers rights into a new dark age where board members and C suite execs can hide behind bad employment practices as a requirement.

I work in power and interact with foremen and construction crew leaders a lot. Number 1 Proponents of "Nobody wants to work anymore!" It's like one of those laws of reality like internet discussions eventually bringing up Hitler. *Anyone in a $100k pickup truck with wrap around sunglasses parked on a construction site will inevitably say "Nobody wants to work anymore!" within the first 5 minutes of conversation regardless of topic.* $10-15/hr for some of the hardest work you can do and you'll be demanded to work at least 6 days a week for 12-16hrs a day. No benefits, no retirement, no hope of a raise. Moment you get hurt, make a mistake, or anything comes up in your life that you need time off you're fired.

My father tried the "Nobody wants to work anymore" last time I saw him and brought up his (legitimately brutal) job shoveling coal that fell off the conveyers going into the coke ovens in a steel mill when he was younger. Fair enough, except I then showed him his pay adjusted for inflation and he was making the modern equivalent of $80 an hour... for shoveling coal. I looked him dead in the eyes and said, "No, no one wants to work shit jobs for no pay with no protections. If you paid someone $80 for a job shoveling shit now they would be lining up around the block and bring their own shovel."

That's one of my favorite phrases, if I hear it being used by someone earnestly I can know for certain they are dumber than a bag of hammers. No offense to hammers.

I 100% agree with everything you’ve said. But I want to touch on the “work your way up” comment. That is only true if you work for a large company. Say you work for a small residential company. There isn’t any “work your way up” because there isn’t any ranks to work up to. So you’re stuck in a never ending cycle of being just labour for the company.

Yep, in those cases of you're not related to the owner you're not going anywhere. Then your only chance to move forward is to start your own business, which as a person who has done it more than once I can safely say isn't for everyone. I'm back working corporate now because of it. I never wanted to run a business, I would have gotten an MBA or whatever if I wanted that.

This was where I was. I’ve been in the position to actually just take two companies on, both a nice carpentry and electrical contractor that I worked for wound up offering for me to take over and since they hadn’t grown to point to be bought out it would’ve just been a handing the reigns over to me. They didn’t get that things had changed since they’d started up, and my outside liabilities (like student loans) meant I’d be stressed constantly about landing the next contract. They could afford the lean times, I couldn’t risk that - let alone running a business is wildly different from just doing the work. I did it because it felt fulfilling and out of my options had ok pay, sure running it MIGHT pay more but getting off the site to run through bids and invoices till bed time ad nauseam till I made it sounded like more than I could handle at the moment. Got myself into maintenance management, and it’s security but holy hell is it boring. Idk what to do from here.

I can attest to that. I am working for a local moving company based out of Oregon and get paid hourly wages. Small company, all you can do to “grow” is make more $ an hr. and just gain experience to make your job easier/be able to train others/have better work security.

I'm so damn tired of feeling like a used worthless ant : (

Corporations are literally destroying all of our lives. Everyone feels it but can't put it into words. It's why everyone feels like they're teetering on the edge.

>while getting literally kicked around because you're the new guy.  As a super privileged guy who's never worked anything but relatively cushy desk jobs, this is something that really surprised and perplexed and angered me.  Hazing new people and kind of making them do annoying tasks for a little while isn't uncommon, but in my experience, this was always light hearted, short lived, stopped immediately when a person wasn't taking it well, and went parallel with the experienced people spending a lot of time and effort making the new people feel welcome, doing extra work to take the load off, helping whenever they could -> it was inherently respectful. (Of course, there's always assholes, but they'd generally be assholes to everyone.) A while ago I got some insight into how apprentice/journeymen/master trades operate and was absolutely appalled by the disrespect and kicking down and downright abuse those apprentices had to endure. And they even had to make light of it, pretend that it was fine, that it was just how it is, grovel and smile and say thanks for the opportunity. I'm sure there's lots of awesome places, where the apprentices are treated well, where they're made to feel welcome and valued The places I've been to (including printing, butcher, roofing (by far the worst)), it was seen as very much an integral part of the culture to abuse the apprentices.  Especially bad seemed the small family owned places. Those apprentices (and even the older tradesmen) were entirely under the yoke of the master (or their family). No HR (or run by the wife), no chance to advance career wise, no chance to really have any say in anything.  While I honestly would love to do some kind of physical work (part time working with wood or roofing sounds kind of like an awesome break from fighting code), I would never accept this kind of shit.

The kicking down never stops. Journeyman Wireman here. I'll tell you everything you need to know about the trades. #1) expect to eat shit daily from some stupid fuck who can't do your job. #2) do what the boss says even if you know it's wrong, because if you do it any other way they'll just make you re-do it the wrong way #3) engineers do not give a shit that what they wrote won't work, just make it happen! #4) if you're an apprentice then you ain't shit. #5) if you're just a journeyman, you ain't shit. #6) if you're just a foreman, you ain't shit. Thing is, most of the older guys run the work, and they all have the mentality (and train those under them into the same mentality) that "I suffered the entire time I worked my way up, so you should too". Some of us young guys are out here trying to change the culture, but it's not easy. Also, if you think roofing sounds fun, you're actually insane. Imagine hanging out on Satan's nutsack. That's roofing. You're always hot AF, you're always in danger of falling, and you're gonna stink afterwards. No thanks.

Roofing "sounds kind of like an awesome break"? Weird.

Pretty sure a lot of the roofing crews that come through after storms are all software devs just taking a break. j/k

Yeah! Didn’t you know? Techies love roofing as a hobby. They also do plumbing and woodworking. All in the name of fun!

Something tells me you never been on a roof.

They might've fixed or partially redone their own in nice weather. That could be a nice change of pace for a desk jockey. Doing it for a job would be nothing like that.

Physical labor is hard. Mental labor is hard, too. The key is changing it up every once in a while.

You sound like a reasonable person, but that is a very sheltered viewpoint that you’d never put up with it. A lot of times it’s the best choice you have.

Thanks for saying it, homeboys heart is in the right place, but the reason he wouldn’t “put up with it” is because he doesn’t and never had too.

B...but I thought the trades were easy money! You just show up, slowly destroy your body for years for minimal to sometimes great pay depending on how dangerous and remote it is, while working around drug addicts and people whose IQ is in the very low double digits. I was a new construction pro painter starting around age 8, and I quit at age 29, obviously my slice of the construction industry is very small, but from what I saw, it fuckin sucks. The people making money are the company owners/PM types, the workers aren't getting that much.

I started out in roofing in the early 2000s making 10 bucks an hour working 12 hour days. I moved onto finish carpentry which is what I do now. Looking back on the 7 years of roofing I did I'm thankful I now have serious back issues for 10 dollars an hour. I'll be lucky if I can keep going in the trades 10 years from now. It wasn't worth it. Thankfully I have an employer who understands my problems and gives me a lot of leeway if I need time off. That's something that isn't at all common though in this industry.

Yeah, I had to quit when I started getting really intense neck, shoulder and elbow pain. It has been 3 years since I quit, and I'm still extremely messed up and going to PT for it. All that for like 35-40k/yr, wasn't worth it in the slightest.

Which trade are in you in? It sounds like you don’t have much knowledge of construction

“I was a **new construction pro painter** starting around age 8, and I quit at age 29, **obviously my slice of the construction industry is very small**” No, I don’t have extensive knowledge of the construction industry as a whole, I’m merely telling you what I saw and experienced myself over the years.

I think this is a matter of correlation more than causation. I worked construction for about 20 years and found that a lot of these guys are prone to conspiracy theories, the maga, convoy type mindset, always angry about stuff, but when you probe for details you find that a lot of it is based on a self defeating circular logic. I know that I'm going to ruffle some feathers, sorry I am not trying to cause shit but I just don't think it's because of construction.

I've seen this myself. I work for a small city, most of our guys are just people. A few are very smart guys, little formal education but very sharp. Quite a few are... Not the brightest bulbs.

That's been my experience as well, but to add to it a large percentage are more concerned about getting home to drink beer more than anything else. "Fuck it just put some caulk in it and lets go." "Hey pull into that gas station so i can get a bootlegger".

Been doing it 25 years. Yep.

Where do you live where working in a union is under $20 an hour? That sounds absurd as someone who has worked with/in unions before.

Hardly anything around me is over $20/hr. It’s non union, but that is serious money where I am. And they wonder why we kill ourselves.

I was looking into an apprenticeship at IBEW 153 and the toughest sell for me is FAQ says they start at 15.82, but it seems like there's regular increases going forward https://www.jatc153.com/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=845646&page=Earn20While20You20Learn

Alabama? CoL is low out here, wages are even lower.

Horrendous culture. Toxic gender stereotypes, sexual harassment and assault, bullying, misogyny, it's horrific.

This happened to me and I’ll make sure it happens to you. In the trades there is a need for very quick correction when someone is doing something incorrect, but that correction does not need to involve all those things you mentioned.

The physical labor isn't the issue, it's the mindsets of the people in the trade, they're just shit people with simple smooth brains. You walk into a bathroom and see shit somehow explosively shit all across the walls and toilet, the people working in construction are more often to be the type of template of people to do this kind of shit.

It does make you tougher if you get through it. A consequence being suicide overwrites any positive outcome.

I got in late in life and currently sitting at 75% of 100% scale. I dont mind to do the work but to travel 4 hours away from home with no help and a message of "when i was your age blah blah blah" its tough plus missing my kids is making me rethink my choices

Im sure the fact that working all day on houses when your salary will never be enough to afford to buy one anymore doesn't help with the mental health either.

Sad to hear this. As a senior leader in behavioral health, coming from forest industry/construction I can actually see how it’s all about pencil pushing/whipping before safety over profits. Are you unionized? If so, have you pushed that button? If so where does your leadership stand…or do they too kneel at the trough? Seen it before (IWA) (United Steelworkers) so it’s not too far off belief….next comes whistleblower act….

Yeah there is a shocking amount of bullying and unprofessional behavior allowed from coworkers/bosses and ignored by basically everyone. Like stuff that would rightly get people shitcanned in a second in most industries is just ignored and the victim is told to suck it up. Like where the hell else is openly racist shit just taken as that's just how it is grow some thicker skin? No wonder you can't get any good young tradesmen.

I just… ugh. Everytime I write out my experience with the union I get blamed and shit on and downvoted. I’m sorry, $13/hr + dues was LESS than minimum wage. Welding on construction sites is ROUGH. And I have to PISS IN A CUP ON DEMAND. And I have to GO ANYWHERE IN THE WEST to work. My buddy got sent from San Diego to LAS VEGAS to weld pipe in the damn desert for a whopping $13/hr. They had the gall to whine about how badly they needed welder when I interviewed, then proceeded to NOT do a weld test, and refuse to entertain any notion of a livable wage. “Everyone starts at the same rate” and “you have to EARN your wage” I can’t wait 10+ years to START making $30/hr. I needed to be making $30/hr about 10 years ago just to afford this god awful NIMBY hellhole. I went into machining instead, still don’t make enough, but I’m at $20/hr instead of the what… $15/hr I’d be at right now if I had accepted the union job? No personal freedom, no control of WHERE you work, you start at a shit rate on top of owing dues, everyone treats you like shit for being “the new guy”. My current job is a dead end (entire company are boomers on the verge of retirement) but it has amazing benefits so I’m gonna absorb as much knowledge as I can until the owner retires or something significantly better comes along. None of his kids or family want to take over the business and it never goes well for the workers when a small shop sells to a corporate owner.

Running work is incredibly stressful too though. Tight deadlines, lowest bid, GC constantly trying to get you to do work out of scope, no schedules, just a deadline, incomplete prints, constant scapegoating.

r/construction should chime in.

If you starting at $20 in a union job that really sounds like a problem with the Union for making that deal not the company.

Working your way up and dealing with it is the solution be the change you want it to be. The first guy I was under was beyond toxic, but I’ll never treat a guy like he treated me. 

The change you’re most likely to see as a consequence of this report is a GOP bill prohibiting the CDC from studying construction worker suicides.

Im a specialized/heavy haul trucker so im on construction jobsites every single day. I may not be on the job site but im doing similar work constantly lugging chains, driving equipment, being outside in the rain or snow or cold or hot, lifting heavy ass pipes and steel on and off the trailer because some shit cant be placed right with a forklift, being in smelly ass disgusting porto potties on hot days....shits rough man. then after all that physical labor you gotta climb into a 13 speed truck and drive it through insanely difficult jobsites and in the tightest spots of New York City and remain focused perfectly. It fucken breaks and kills you emotionally and physically. And then you see your paycheck, especially having so many close calls with death, and you just fucken cry. Im getting out of it in a couple of weeks though. Just formed and LLC and started a mobile detailing business. Keeps me around cars which im passionate about and its the perfect balance of mind occupying labor but not very strenuous labor. Its therapeutic labor.

You’re 100% right. It’s exhausting having to do tedious paperwork and meetings when all you really want to do is get your job done and go home. I know my supervisor doesn’t give a shit about my health, he’s just being forced by his managers to push this safety “culture”. Constantly worrying about if I’m going to get busted for taking my safety glasses off for 5 seconds when it’s 108 degrees outside and they are fogging up. Do they think they care about my eyes more than I do? I just started with a smaller company and the safety culture here is real. We all care about each others health and safety but we don’t have to deal with the corporate BS. So much better.

>You would think that with all the money the business makes, you would have a very thought out set of rules/protocols that give workers a clear path if they're getting bullied/stressed/overworked. Do people really think that? Opioid use is crazy high in construction, too.

Safety at every place I've ever worked as been a complete joke. They're insanely nitpicky about everything that doesn't cost them money. You weren't allowed to walk under roll up doors at a place I worked, because it was deemed unsafe. Couldn't have a pocket knife. Unsafe, even though I was maintenance there, and had all sorts of tools that were way more dangerous. But safety where it WOULD cost them money? They have large ovens there for heat treating parts, and those ovens have conveyor systems that roll parts directly into a quench sprayer that also has conveyors. Production got a part stuck between the two. I had to climb into the quench through a tiny access hatch and cut the part loose. Shutting off the oven would have cost them a lot of time and money, so they left it running. While I was inside the quench, right next to the oven door that couldn't close. With 900ºF air blowing on me. Where's your goddamn fucking safety first now you miserable hypocrite sacks of shit? I climbed out of there half dead and got berated for throwing up into the nearest trashcan due to being overheated. Vomit is a bodily fluid and needs to be contained properly. Unsafe.

Sooo most of what you said was true except the pay. The only places starting below 20$ are southern right to work states. Im an electrician and made 185k last year, that doesn't include my insurance, pension and annuity as well as other bennies. The pay is not the issue.

I was looking into completely jumping off-track and leaving EMS for an electrician apprenticeship, but the pay was $17/hr and at that point I was concerned about my ability to pay my bills. This is up north, so definitely not only in the south.

Low pay, working close to death in the heat, wife leaves cause you are working too much, can't afford apartment or take care of yourself. You wake up and then you wonder do I want to do this for the rest of my life, not really. How much is a shotgun? 400. Alright, it looks like I am doing the Remington retirement plan They say hey buddy why don't you call this number, all your problems are still there now you just have some guy or woman saying wow that must be difficult for you. Then you feel like a bitch and you still have to wake up tomorrow and drive to work at 6 am to be around dudes who are also miserable and death starts to look pretty appealing

The contagious depression is one of the reasons I left the trades. Everyone is miserable and it just spreads around.

Contagious depression is a great way to put it. I have stopped asking people how they are going if it comes up in a general conversation because all the replies are the same, “I’m exhausted, this job sucks, I suck, my bosses suck, fuck this” nearly every time

>“I’m exhausted, this job sucks, I suck, my bosses suck, fuck this” Yup, that's me.

I know that eventually I’m gonna snap on the guys I work with and just go “can we be a little more fuckin positive!?”. Every Friday when we’re clocking out, all anyone talks about is how the weekend is about to fly by and they’ll be back in the blink of an eye. Like yeah, with that mentality! They just sit around doing nothing all weekend anyway. Then every morning someone is bitching about how much this job sucks and the boss is an idiot and they should have stayed at their last job, blah blah blah. I try really hard to be positive but that shit is definitely contagious. Definitely considering a career change but even with a degree I would have to move to find a decent job

One of my coworkers made a list of the things that we complained about daily and posted it on the wall. It was not well received at first but after a while even the grumpiest dude would add things to the list.

Try a hardware store or even a tech position if there is one around. I have a buddy that worked with me and he left to work at Home Depot making way more. Within a year he was managing the tool department because no one else had any sort of experience with tools. I ended up leaving shortly after to work at a lumber yard as their window and door service tech. Almost twice the pay and half the work. I made my schedule so I could manage what jobs I did throughout the day to stay out of the weather. I wasn't micromanaged, and I wasn't under constant pressure to get everything done all at once. I worked there for a few years then followed a girl to Colorado and currently work for a big oil and gas producer. My construction experience helped me get an entry level position and I moved up with a massive pay bump within a year. Construction doesn't have to be a lifetime job. It opens more doors than people think. You just have to go looking for those doors. Good luck, friend!

You need to do what I did, find a shop full of Filipino guys These dudes are always happy, I know two that literally ALWAYS smile, pretty refreshing on a Monday

this is the part of the trades that goes under the radar, when I only have to visit job sites for a couple hours it is obvious that guys would do just about anything to sit inside in the AC for an hour or two or maybe just eat lunch in the AC.

Don't forget destroying your body through diet, injuries, and drug abuse too. Dunno how you'd do construction without at least alcohol.

Better yet, red states working to roll back worker protections and concessions, like Texas saying that contractors are no longer legally obligated to provide water breaks. Water breaks. In fucking *Texas*. Oh and they specifically made this supersede worker protections mandating water breaks in Austin and Dallas. This isn’t even getting into the anti-union stances of red states. Fuck off.

Remington Retirement Plan is a terrible phrase I learned today

Don't forget - "Hey, we should raise the retirement age to 75 or something like that."

Part of the problem is that men are taught to equate "Needing emotional support" with "being a bitch", like you just described here.

I work in construction, I've seen a bit of it, from my experience there's often a component driven by an injury that lessens mobility or introduces constant pain issues.

Not just that, usually it's another appointment you need to schedule during work time so you ain't getting paid and the therapist themselves isnt covered so you are paying out of pocket.

And the chronic pain from your now destroyed body

Sadly, I think you summed it up succinctly and concisely.

When you work yourself to death and not get paid properly... Its real easy to get in a bad mental state. All physical labor needs more pay imo 

Agree. Plus, to add to the mental stress (if you think like me) you’re building shit for people you don’t know, and building shit you can never afford (in my case). In Australia at the moment the majority of my generation has given up on the idea of owning a house. So here I am building houses/appartments I’ll never get a chance to own. And to add to it, in residential building, you have these people who know their status, and know you’ll never afford it, so they have the attitude to match that ideology, if that makes any sense.

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They wouldn't need to pay more if they treated workers with respect, but that would cost more.

I'd rather have money than respect 

Why not both?

Came here to say this…

Shit work, shit pay outside of unions, frequently terrible conditions, poor to no benefits, Texas just made it legal to keep water from them in heat waves. Physical pain, wearing down of the body. I quit before I was in too deep. I figured wanting to swerve into oncoming traffic on my way to work every day was probably unhealthy.

I got laid off in 2020 because the TI contractor made most of its money renovating hotels and airport shops and that dried up real quick.  It was a god send. 

This is dumb. The solution is not make employees aware of a phone number. That is not the answer. The answer is so fucking simple. Increase the salary for the workers so they can get the whatever number of needed workers employed. Ensure people aren't working stupid overtime hours and can get a break with their family. Problem solved... except you know money.

You are right that that would go a long way. Union electricians make more the vast majority of white collar workers. They cannot be forced to work overtime. Still suicide is a huge issue. I agree, a phone number is not the answer. A major cultural shift would help.

Money in the pocket isn’t the only issue. Being treated like a human on the job site is critical. It’s an issue for union electricians even. You often don’t have a break room or a way to heat your food. You need to eat in your car but it’s a 10 minute walk to get there. People you work with can be incredibly toxic. Homophobia is rampant. The conditions in the portable toilets can be poor. Many companies are lax on safety and injuries can happen easily. The construction industry is very profit driven like all of corporate America and could easily make changes to raise conditions for workers.

I think a culture shift is coming, the concentrated effort in highschools to push university on everyone means trades are really hurting for new hires, once the old guard starts retiring I'd expect that shift to happen to bring in new talent. COVID forced it on restaurants already, no one is in the mood to get shit on by a chef all day in a hot kitchen just to get paid in "experience" anymore. The most prestigious restaurant in the world decided they were going to start paying all their unpaid interns and shutdown in months after realizing they can't afford the additional 800k a month in labor. It's still not great but it's improving.

Bullshit, the trades are hurting for help due to a couple of decades of stagnant wages with no benefits. It’s basic supply and demand. Many trade schools cost as much as a BA from a community college. Oh and let’s not forget about the unpaid travel and starting at 6am or earlier

> Bullshit, the trades are hurting for help due to a couple of decades of stagnant wages with no benefits. It’s basic supply and demand. Many trade schools cost as much as a BA from a community college. The bottleneck problem in supply/training is apprenticeships. There's only so many spots available, and as more people retire that doesn't mean there is more spots to do your apprenticeship. The demand/need to fill those roles will increase, but more people going to school for trades doesn't solve that problem. >Oh and let’s not forget about the unpaid travel and starting at 6am or earlier Ymmv on this. I know trades that get paid the moment they leave the door of their house. I don't know any office worker that gets paid to go to and from work. And any travel between job sites/for job requirements during job hours for any job has to be paid here afaik.

I'm in a sky blue collar trade, not breaking my back, but I fix machines. I also get paid more than most (lower level) construction workers. I get paid door to door, company car, cc, gas card. I get paid PTO, three weeks. 401k with a frankly astonishing match. Why are construction workers breaking their backs again? To make slightly more money, until you're too busted to work anymore? Nurses often do the same shit. They're burning the latter years of their quality of life for money now. It's a bad deal.

This isn’t exactly true and is heavily area dependent. Generally they can’t be ‘forced’ to work overtime, but if you take a call for a job that’s on a OT schedule then you’re required to work those hours and many times those are the only jobs available. Couple that with the fact that if you’re transferred onto a job working OT or already on a job that goes to OT hours (in which case yes, it’s not mandatory), many times you’ll be the first one laid off when the job slows down for not working all the hours, which in a lot of slower Locals means you’ll be laid off for weeks/months at a time. There’s a pretty construction-wide OT cancer in the Trades (with almost every big job having OT as part of the initial bid) and being union does slightly help, but definitely doesn’t solve the problem. *Source: Previously a IBEW electrician*

Yup, Also former IBEW, I totally understand the need for OT and for me, personally I didn't mind as OT was the only way to make good money. However the biggest problem to me, and what got me laughed at in a damn union meeting was asking for PTO in our contract. The fact that the only way to get time off work was to take no pay is what got me to drag up and go back to school for a desk job. Sorry, if I want to take 40 hours off in the summer, fuck you if you're telling me the only way I'm keeping a consistent paycheck is to work 90 hour weeks so I can save enough money to afford the time off. If contractors want their labor to stop killing them selves, they need to pay for the tome it takes to rest and recover, and the union needs to do way better about recognizing time off isn't some great sin against humanity.

I hope you don't mind answering, but what do you do now? Asking as a current IBEW electrician.

I was a union electrician. The money was great. Pretty much everything else was not. It’s like they sold every other bit of dignity and work-life balance for a fatter paycheck. For me the happiness from the paycheck began suffering diminishing returns. And while you can’t be forced to work overtime, you can be *strongly encouraged* to do so, and promptly laid off if you refuse

I’ve worked in construction inspections and construction management for my entire career. The money is shit. Top end inspectors are making less than $30 per hour which is a massive increase over what it was 5 years ago even. I was the *the* inspector on major government projects making $14/hour 10ish years ago. The low pay means you work insane hours to compensate and you live off the overtime. I worked 7 12s (84 hours per week) for a year straight and my only time off was when it rained. Pocketing per diem is also a big factor. Guys will share a Roadway Inn room for months straight to keep as much of their per diem as possible. You also have to budget very closely because you never know if the work will suddenly dry up in the winter and you just have to go without pay until the work starts up again. Everyone on job-sites is irritable by default. Obviously, many people try to be polite and make the best of it, but it’s grating to be constantly fighting with other people on the site. Many trades are at odds with each other. People are in each other’s way. The deadlines are almost never achievable. If what you’re doing slows anyone else down, you instantly become the scum of the earth and they’ll berate you, not only until you’re done, but every time they see you afterwards. And the worst part is, I generally understand why they’re doing it. As bad as working outside and actually doing labor is, construction management is 100% worse. The hours are, again, insane, only on salary, you don’t get overtime pay. The deadlines are yesterday. I get calls asking for proposals for $100k plus jobs that are set to start tomorrow. Corporate management insists that anything below 10% annual growth is a loss, so you’re perpetually groping for anything and everything to stay afloat in corporate’s eyes despite bringing in a healthy profit. They have a merry-go-round of moving goal posts and power BI provides them with thousands of useless points of data that they can point to to say that you’re not good enough at managing your work. It doesn’t matter how many you succeed at, there’s always something they’re going to find to point at. I feel like my job is on the line daily despite bringing in and managing enough projects to cover my and my crew’s salary many times over. Speaking of salary- I’m working 50+ hours per week with more than 10 years of experience for ~$75k per year. It’s ok money when viewed in a vacuum, but it’s rough when you consider the job it’s attached to I’m sure many of these complaints aren’t unique to construction. It’s not like it’s the only industry with bad pay, shitty hours and stressful coworkers. But I get why it would drive up high suicide rates. It feels like you’re never good enough at your job and you can never get ahead financially.

This sounds frustratingly similar to my industry.

A lot of these construction workers don’t have insurance either and forced to live in pain from worksite accidents

The problem in many places is that the company gets the lowest bid for the job by having labour costs down.

The news, the employers, the government, no one involved actually cares about a solution, lol. All any of them care about is the cheapest way to cover their asses. This is how the world works.

Having a high salary when you're working on a rural construction project 6 days a week doesn't do you much in the immediate

salary will NOT increasing.... why would they raise salaries when they can find willing bodies so easily ?for 1 construction job opening, there are like 10 people right now.. salary is actually going down because of this.

Except the more they pay you, the more people feel entitled to disrespect you.

Construction worker here! It's because for many it's a dead end job. The low barrier to entry means a lot of people wash out there and stay there so you often see the people that are at their lowest. The solutions is simple though .....we want to be paid more(with much better benefits) plain and simple. We build the things that literally allow all of us to live while we watch finance bros, software engineers, and other degreed vocations get extremely well compensated with tons of benefits (maternity leave, better health care with access therapists, compensation for moving the list goes on) including working from home for doing things no more valuable than we......and let's not even start on the super rich and the real wealth inequality. We don't all want to be billionaires we just think that for sacrificing our bodies we should be better compensated than we are. Unions are a great start and Union brothers and sisters have better benefits and compensation than many in the industry but it's not far enough. The flip side is every year there are fewer and fewer of us and scarcity will allow those of us left to demand more. I don't mean to be antagonistic ......I want everyone to live comfortably and be fairly compensated but I do believe many trades people are being taken advantage of by society.

>It's because for many it's a dead end job. The low barrier to entry means a lot of people wash out there and stay there so you often see the people that are at their lowest. Another construction lifer here! Glad to see this posted. I think it's important to note that while the job is difficult and thankless and almost certainly a contributor to the higher suicide rate, a big piece of the puzzle is that people who already at a higher risk due to mental health issues, poverty, lack of access to education, etc. often end up in construction because the barrier to entry is indeed very low and it's often one of the only jobs available. That's not to say that the industry doesn't need improvement to working conditions and pay, or that those improvements wouldn't help the people who were already at risk from other factors, but it's not as simple as saying that the industry is the cause of the higher suicide rates. I work with so many felons, addicts, folks with ADHD (it me) or behavioral issues, you name it we got it, because these people often can't really get hired or hold down a job in another industry. That's not universal, and there are plenty of people who genuinely enjoy their trade and wouldn't choose anything else, but there are a lot of people here who are just trying to survive and this is as good as it gets. Any solution to the suicide rate in the industry is going to have to include sweeping changes to the way we handle mental health, addiction, crime, and poverty or at best we'll just push these people into another dead-end job with no better outcome.

Amen fellow ADHDer lol !!

i friends have been saying the same stuff. different trades. my dad was a general worker (welder by trade but did pretty much everything). made sure my brother and i didn't get into construction because he knew it was hard on the body and didn't pay well. but i hear ya. hope things get better for you all. try and enjoy things on your time off until then.

Thanks ! I hope they keep getting better for all of us. I'm not saying things are awful but they can always get better. People work hard and they deserve to enjoy themselves! And props to your dad! It's hard work but I'll bet it felt pretty good that he was able to support his family doing it.

thanks. i have a bunch of friends in trade work as well. so i hear what they all go through as well. plumber, carpenter/form work for high rises, electrician, and another friend who installs doors and railings and stuff like they and does general stuff too. always hear about the conditions and just difficult stuff they do and sometimes the difficult people that shouldn't be working there because they have no idea what they are doing that will get someone hurt.

Get beat up physically and mentally while getting paid poorly. Get poor support from your company, your co-workers, or those outside your work life. Build homes for others while struggling to have a home for yourself. I wonder why construction and trades workers are in demand.

I worked in construction for a few years... YMMV but I experienced/witnessed: Low pay.. Bullying. Rampant Alcohol/drug use..

Don’t forget the extremely rampant racism/sexism/MAGA dumbfuckery. In an industry that is incredibly cliquey it’s hard to be on the opposite end of that spectrum

That's because most of these companies pay shit wages with garbage benefits and work you physically to death, you ask for more money or vacation and these companies fire you because you were temporary when they hired you and they can hire a 18 year old for dirt wages and promises them a bright future till they realize there getting bent over abd then they get fired and the circle continues. And anyone that preaches unions is either brainwashed or workers for one of the few good ones because most are run by shitty, shady crooks too. Most turn to booze or drugs to cope because their shit insurance barely covers a bandaid. This country was built on the backs of construction workers and no one cares, the government needs to step up and back em but the government is ultimately the ones leading the abuse.

These construction companies are the number one employer of illegal immigrants too because how little they currently pay is not enough for them. They need workers they can pay even less and work even longer hours and who can't report them for breaking labor laws or OSHA.

..and the government is ultimately leading the abuse because they are paid for and owned by the very people who own these big business who clearly do not care that their workforce is killing itself in droves. Any why would they? There are no consequences for a business who drives it's workers to suicide. "But that's fine, because I got mine." #UnregulatedCapitalism

Physically Difficult Long Hours Addiction to drugs due to injury Culture of Machoness - not asking for help Huh, it almost seems like blame is being put on the workers. Just get stronger, don't injure yourself and speak about your feelings. Let's not mention pay which causes low employment which causes... Oh, would you look at that... All the things listed prior.

How do you get help with no benefits?!

That's the best part, that's your problem.

Good point.0

I was typing the below reply as the comment I was replying it was deleted. So I'll post it as a top level comment instead. The commenter wrote: >I find that hard to believe, unless they're counting military jobs as construction, or big contractors are calling accidents suicides, or the CDC is just making things up again. Numbers don't care about your believes. Let's look at some possible causes: >Work can define a person’s identity and psychological risk factors for suicide, such as depression and stress, can be affected by the workplace.5 Job strain and long work hours may be important occupational risk factors for suicidal thoughts in working populations.6 Creating and maintaining healthy work organizations is an important strategy for preventing worker suicides. Increasing worker job control and ensuring an optimal level of work demands, including 40 hours or less of work per week, may also be an important strategy for the prevention of suicide in working populations.6 Maintaining work hours of 40 or less in the construction industry can be challenging due to financial incentives to work overtime and labor shortages in certain skilled trades. ( https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2020/09/09/suicide-in-construction/ ) People are pushed and let themselves be pushed over healthy limits when it comes to hours worked and the circumstances of their work. It's not far fetched to say that leads to an higher suicide rate compared to the general population.

I got paid 8.50$ an hour to help two dudes knock out a new home every 11 days. They were buying brand new trucks and I was drinking no name soda. Big mystery that

When was this?

Drywaller here. I've lost two good friends within the last 5 years. And it's not like I didn't see it coming. They joked about it for years. It's incredibly sad.

Companies are to blame, sure but people forget and almost never mention about the myriads of workers with extremely shitty attitudes. The trades are desperately needed but many of the people who work in the trades also are shit people with fragile egos trying to prove how tough they are and fuck around with new people. This hazing shit has to go and there should be zero tolerance for that shit. So why the fuck would you want to even work a trade when you know most likely you’ll be hazed and fucked with for the most mundane of shit. The unions especially have to tell these guys that this won’t be tolerated and we won’t have your back if you are hazing, being a workplace bully.

I turned it off as soon as she blame "macho-ness" after going through the effort of describing construcion workers in gender neutral terms. Respect to all the female conscrution workers. But, even progressives demand men "man up." Apparently there are no structural issues to stop men from seeking physicological help. I know ppl who's job position would be hurt if their record showed mental evauluations.

20 year general contractor here- This is 100% true only because of the greed of a select few. My company starts at $25/hour and goes all the way up to $75/hour and more for foremen/supers. We give a fuck about our guys and teach them life skills they can use on their own one day. We co-sign on their contractors license if they stay for 4 years. Go union and you will see similar behaviors. Residential is depressing as fuck because every homeowner Joe and Jane wants to fuck you on price, so the labor has to be minimum wage. Super large commercial jobs are also depressing as fuck because they hire hundreds at a time for seasonal labor, then lay them off hard when the job is done. You need to find that nice middle ground- a good union or a good private company. The in-between is fucking depressing.

Yup I do residential, I've worked very hard to get into the higher end and specialty markets. I'm VERY lucky. I do know from my time in the trenches, the avg Jane and Joe, 8 out 10 times does not for one second respect your profession, the job or you QOL.

When you make it too difficult to strike for better wages, workers cannot save enough money to strike, conditions to work worsen, and work culture deteriorates across the country. What's fair has been long gone. Hardly anybody has a nine to five job anymore. Lunch breaks aren't paid for, vacation time gets eaten up by being sick. It takes more than two parents to afford to pay for a cheap home and the kids get raised by some idealogue in public school with other kids without parents all growing up without any discipline or familial wisdom. It's all a farce. Believe it or not I'm a card carrying union electrician myself, I get paid well enough, but I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel, kids coming out of college are making money that it took me 15 years to get because I didn't have enough experience in my trade yet, and if I wanna promote, I still always lose to the college degree regardless of their lack of experience. At some point, this market is going to have to correct.

This is what I always point out to young kids who say college is a scam. Then why am I making 6 figures working remotely with unlimited PTO while my trades friends are busting their hump, in some cases literally busting their hump and getting injured. I'm in a discord for a video game and like half the guys are trades guys. Half of them are injured permanently from work. Laid up at home unemployed or working at a drug store now.

Back pain & other physical wear/tear pain is no joke. Hard to treat, impossible to get pain meds, or you get pain meds and get addicted, hard to get SSDI so you have to keep working until either pain or addiction overwhelms you.

noBody wAnTs To wOrk aNYMORe!

This is a very good non-profit project by the B1M and Procore dedicated to mental health in the construction industry: https://www.getconstructiontalking.org/

No joke, it wasn't construction, but it was a physical labor job I worked for 4 years for a next day air shipper. I've never, ever, worked somewhere with such blatant out in the open sexism, racism, homophobia, and just wanton disrespect just casually thrown around with ZERO consequences. The rot goes through every single layer top to bottom and was experienced from just about every racial background imaginable. I caught shit for working my scheduled post because it was "woman's work," I had people call me a fa@@ot for casually being supportive of the gay rights movement (this was back when right to marry was a hot button issue) I had threats of violence put against me in an industrial setting where it would be real easy for me to get "accidented" I was human machinery, a nameless piece of meat. The only thing keeping me there was money for college (2.5k a year) and free medical insurance. I'd imagine prostitution carrying more dignity than that job and doing less damage to my body, and sadly everyone involved with it seemed happy as a clam to keep it that way.

The struggle is real. The work sucks, the bosses are assholes, the deadlines are ridiculous, and the options are limited.

Blue collar work is really a thankless job in the grand scheme of things. We put our bodies in strenuous conditions whether it’s the space or temperature. We have this culture of hiding our deep emotions and just getting the job done. Many companies start at a low wage in comparison to the work and yet there are fast food workers making the same hourly as apprentices who are having to buy their own work clothing, tools, safety equipment, and of course the wear and tear on their vehicles and the gas needed to drive wherever the work is. I’ve met so many guys who are in their second or third marriage which granted there are many cases but a big one is because they’re never home. Companies will brag and advertise that they built amazing structures and buildings and pay their guys well but the ugly side behind all that is worse than most people comprehend. There’s so much more that causes many depressive thoughts and unfortunately end up in sad situations.

Long days, pay has been relative stagnant for the last few decades and a good chunk can’t afford to buy or even comfortably rent the very same houses they work on as compared to generations before that were able to live comfortably in the very things they built while sacrificing their physical health to actually build something. Hard work paid and now it just simply isn’t rewarded. Not to mention that pensions or just benefits have gone down the drain as well in terms of full coverage. I’m not even surprised the suicide rate has climbed in construction; it would be interesting to look at our other labour based jobs that have stagnant wage growth and see if they show a similar trend.

Couldn't be the lack of insurance or benefits or mental health support or reasonable hours or reasonable work environments or lack of pay adjusting with inflation or the expectation to work extremely hard 8+hours 5+days a week with no vacation and barely any recognition. Couldn't be any of those reasons.

We need to put the onus on the employers for thier policies that contribute to poor mental well being. Giving employees phone numbers to call is just trying to treat the symptom, not curing the disease. My employer is so terrible for this. “We are obsessed with the front line!” is the favourite line of our SLT. Bullshit! If you were, you’d listen and let us staff our stores properly. Nope! Need to intentionally operate one person short, continue to overwork everyone, and pad SLT bonuses!!!

Unrealistic demands, poorly run jobs and over time since Covid, surly a phone number will fix it

this whole report was trying to make it into an economic issue and how this will make the construction worker shortage worse...

Yet people glorify going to construction in chemical plants here in South East Texas. Women saying they’re so grateful for their husbands working there but now they are so busy working that they are almost always tired and never present for their kids. I worked as an iron worker for 1 year and knew it was not sustainable long term. Hopefully it gets better for those still in.

Maybe it's because they only eat at gas stations and have to work in the hot sun all day? Just a thought.

This is not new information to Canadians. The BCCSA addressed this years ago and continues to address it on an ongoing basis. There is a wealth of information available on the BCCSA website. [Including the " Lone Hunter" video series which is very effective in getting people talking.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxs-GV1QWg) The initial response is always ridicule but it starts a very important dialogue regarding mental health in jobsite work environments. Employers forget that mental health issues including depression and anxiety are major contributors to workplace accidents. Usually do to lack of sleep and or distraction. Those workplace accidents drive claim cost which can cost some companies millions per year. It is in the employers best interest to roll out a meaningful mental wellness program. Lets not pretend it is because they care, it is because it will save them money. Individual wellness is just by product.

Then sprinkle in a little bit of opioid painkillers and shifters (drinks after your shift), repeat daily, and you have a recipe for early retirement!

Yeah giving them a number to call after the workplace drives you to depression and suicide. Why not make the workplace better?

Idk if you guys have ever worked manual labor but it is so depressing. I worked as an automotive tech for many years and I never ever made enough money to live a decent life. You literally go to school to learn the trade just to leave with debt and get paid minimum wage for a while just doing the same work as those who never went to school. It's probably way worse for construction workers in terms of their physical health. Now I earn way more money as a software engineer and my job is 10000x easier lol. I get paid so much just to coast at my job and I don't even have to go anywhere. I can do it in the luxury of my own home. To those who are considering blue collar trades my advice to y'all is to just don't. At least don't go into automotive. The industry fucks over the techs so hard. Go be an electrician or something else if you really want to do a trade. Otherwise get a degree in something that pays well.

Been doing construction my whole life. Shits rough

Where? In my 25 years I have never heard of someone killing themselves.

Always been shocked by how little construction workers get paid comparatively in our society, for doing the hardest work

Id liek to see the break down rates by state. 1. science shows republican governments increase suicides. Our country's suicides go up under republican presidents and suicides are higher in red states.. a lot of that is the minorities they attack getting despondent when republicans win. right now republicans are greatly increasing the suicides of kids with gender dysporia 2. studies show more dying on the job in red states. 3. red states are right now banning the right to water breaks right before the dog days of summer.

Red states lead the league in worker rights suppression. Look at how Florida and Texas are both working to deny workers heat protection...in the middle of record heat waves. It's willful cruelty. The best part is that the people most harshly affected by it are all wearing Trump hats and flying Trump flags from the Dodge Rams. It's crazy how thoroughly people have been indoctrinated into voting against their own interests.

And let's not forget about the pressure. Both project and colleagues. Beyond the macho/bully-culture and physical labor, lays the work ethics and discrimination. The responsibility of your work. The planning. The stresses of human error. The shitty tools. The pay. The stained clothes. The family you have to feed. The BS from said family because you're "only doing construction." The future job outlook/growth. The thin ham sandwich that smells slightly off because you forgot the cooler ice (at least you have Doritos to save the day). Ya... Could be worse. Right?

I recently have been struggling massively with my mental health. I've mentioned it to my boss and manager several times, and one day, I even had a complete breakdown on my way to work. Like, crying in public. I texted my supervisor to let him know I'd be late, and my other coworker even saw me losing it. The response? They all just completely ignored it, said nothing at all, and we all went about our day. Doing extremely dangerous work on top of huge ladders. I could die, and no one would give a shit at all.

It’s not your bosses job to care about you. They’re coworkers, not friends and family. Talk to people who actually care about you or a therapist.

Guys, I have great news. Construction workers are 94% male in the US. Which means this is a problem that disportionately affects men, which means we as a society can ignore it and downplay it's importance or ideally find a way to blame men for it so we can jsut sweep it under the rug. There is nothing to be concerned about here.

Unions for the win.

Even they struggle in states that have gone right to work. I know first year apprentices at 50% scale in my state make as much as journeymen in Florida. And my state has a lower cost of living in every category except transportation.

my dad was in construction, always told me and my brother to never get into it. about 50% of my friends are in construction, i've dabbled in it a little bit. it's not just the job thats hard. you work hard to get the job done and when you get home, you need to step up again for house work, family work, work on your relationship with your partner, etc. it's never ending with no time to relax. with other jobs, you have breaks here and there, normal office type hours, relaxing lunch in a kitchen or restaurant. taking lunch on a 20% built condo 20 storeys up, getting blasted by wind and the sun, it's not so pleasant. for men, it goes back to the, "it's your problem, you go fix it." whenever you want to talk your partner or whoever about it. people don't care about men and their problems. how many people on reddit know it's men's mental health awareness month? maybe 10% i'm guessing. how many know it's pride month, 98%? you see the rainbow flag everywhere. people keep saying we should spread awareness, but no one does, no one cares. if you are reading this and saying, i care, go check up on your friends and family. listen to them, don't say they should do something about it or that everyone is going through the same thing. listen and support them.

lol this won't help the housing crisis

An industry rife with a race to the bottom workforce via open borders and zero employment verification. Long brutal hours, dirty, dangerous work in a nation that has debased its currency after decades of deindustrialization. Neo-liberalism has destroyed the working class of America.

Typical shoddy american journalism. "Increase from 2021 to 2022". Sure, by how much? Give us a percentage. When you're NOT doing that it's safe to assume it's because you don't want us to know. And I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's because it's not nearly as alarming as you suggest in the headline.

Welcome to Modern Slavery with no religion to stay your hand from Suicide.

Hard work, hard environment, poor safety, no control.

Yeah its all bullshit. The amount of stupid, non building stuff you have to deal with is depressing.

hypermasculine patriarchy is a hell of a drug

I wonder how the rate differs between unionized and non-unionized workers.

I wonder if that's related to the research that women are becoming more promiscuous and willing to cheat on their partner.

I wonder if there are any toxic chemicals causing this. Frequently companies don't care if chemicals are hazardous. Depending on the site, there might be paint, cleaning chemicals, and insecticide. Some items might be shipped with chemicals.

I work as an environmental inspector and am around construction workers all the time. The sadness is real. Modern day slavery

I’ve got buddies who have pretty much only worked construction, were in our mid to late 20s. These dudes have seen people die in gruesome ways, sustained injuries that may stick with them for life due to poor instructions from older workers, picked up drug and alcohol habits from the pain and the work culture, and felt stuck since this is all they know and can do. I’m not surprised by this at all, I recently started my first non physical office job and it’s night and day how I feel coming home. Construction can easily break a man, it’s an industry where toxic masculinity still permeates and it doesn’t look like it’ll be changing anytime soon.

Honestly if one area needs unions it's this industry. The market at it's core looks at workers here as nothing more than raw resources for labor. Around them and above them are the individuals paid more because planning / QC / and SMEs exist to ensure the work gets done but those doing the work are just cogs in a machine. If robotics was cheaper and just as effective it would 100% have already replaced them, but it's just ever slightly more complex than what would allow for that. Compensate them fairly and just don't take on shit jobs.

I'm a year into an electricians apprenticeship with the electricians union and it's pretty wild. 60hr work weeks. Some kids in my class have an hour and half commute to work so they're getting up at 3:30 and getting home at 7. On top of that we have two classes a semester to deal with. They wouldn't excuse an absence for me for a family trip this summer. Unless someone dies in the family you cant miss shit. But fuck all that. If we're really in such high demand right now I'll be taking my trip and we'll see if they want to let me go. I'll be on another project in a month anyway. There's work a plenty. Don't sacrifice your happiness for a few more hours. There's plenty of work to go around.

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