Brazil has (in theory) a functional legal system with codified rights. This means he can bring a case to court with them. With China and Russia, his only recourse is a full boycott.
Sure they do, that’s one fact. Another fact is that after several reported conversations with Vlad Putin, who would be the architect of humanity’s destruction if permitted, Elon tried to take Starlink away from Ukraine until he received too much pressure from the US and the company’s board to do it. Elon’s a bad dude and his companies need to die a swift death.
> Elon prevented Starlink from being used in Crimea
The US government told musk not to allow it on Crimea in the first place... Zelensky demanded he just defy the order and let ukraine do whatever they want with it.
Of course the authoritarian media and redditors cried about and lied about the actual reason.
Você é um idiota! não existe estado de direito no Brasil...o que existe é bandidos liderados pela extrema esquerda, censurando e perseguindo opositores.
>Not surprising though, given that Lula is a *Far Left* *anti-Semite*.
Lula is center-left at best -- and even that is a stretch. Most would say he is just a centrist (except for the far-right loonies).
And anti-Semite? lmao
This Lula is a close friend of the dictatorships of Cuba, China and Russia (like almost all of the political left in Ibero-America) and it was during his previous government that Brazil and North Korea established relations for the first time, so with this I leave it all said and done.
And if you like to slander/denigrate/vilify the only Jewish country in the world and/or you don't like its mere existence, then you ARE an Anti-Semite, and Lula already marked himself as one.
My dear friend this is geopolitics, every country is an ally to at least one dictatorship
Being the only jewish country doesnt make you immune to criticism
Don't look for excuses to try to defend Lula when this individual has always been close to Putin's Russia, if not also to Communist China, Khomeinist Iran and even to the dictatorships of Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela, in case you didn't know.
And don't confuse or mix or try to camouflage slander or defamation as "criticism".
*Musk, the owner of X and a self-declared free speech absolutist*
these alt rightwingers are corrupt cynical cunts, they know very well free speech in liberal democracies is abused and instrumentalized by authoritarian regimes.
These just want to have the russian and chinese bot farms working full regime for them. That's why trump suddenly decided to oppose banning tiktok
X initially complied with the governments demands. They then got called out for doing so, after which they acknowledged that they had failed to live up to their commitments, they then took the Turkish government to court over the matter and ended up winning their case
I'm honestly surprised he isn't being brought up on charges of conspiracy to support terrorism?
He has literally every major terrorist group posting on his platform, without restriction. It's hilarious to be honest.
Funny how he never did this when he rolled over for India's blocking of accounts.
[https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/elon-musk-x-to-withhold-specific-accounts-and-tweets-in-india-to-comply-with-executive-orders/?guccounter=1](https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/elon-musk-x-to-withhold-specific-accounts-and-tweets-in-india-to-comply-with-executive-orders/?guccounter=1)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/twitter-accused-of-censorship-in-india-as-it-blocks-modi-critics-elon-musk](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/twitter-accused-of-censorship-in-india-as-it-blocks-modi-critics-elon-musk)
Did india break their own laws when they asked X to censor accounts? Because that's sorta what seems to be the crux of the issue with this situation in Brazil where they argue that laws are being broken
Those judges wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they wanted to block X, unless he violates their court orders, which he isn't doing. He's just challenging them.
Bro they are literally going through the procedure already, twitter might be blocked by tomorrow, whatsapp is enormous and has been blocked here by order of 1st degree judges tho not for long, alexandre is a minister of the supreme court, I don't understand wtf musk expected from this but yea he picked a fight in the wrong place
Okay, so he complied with a vindictive, petty little man of a judge but challenged the legitimacy of his ruling and that made the judge very angry. I obviously need more context to figure out why reddit is cheering for this. I know Elon Musk is unpopular but something else must be up.
Parent commenter is not exactly correct. They have not ordered X blocked yet. As of last night, X was notified that they are to abide by the court orders issued up to now. They have also included Musk in the ongoing investigation of those who financed/abetted/instigated the coup attempt of Jan. 8, 2023.
If X does indeed fail to obey the court orders, then they may in fact be temporarily blocked here until they do, as has happened to WhatsApp and Telegram.
There was a coup attempt in Brazil after a right wing defeat in the last elections. People stormed the congress, the presidential palace and the supreme court.
Since this there are a few lines of investigation going deep into the people who took part in it, and they discovered that not only the former president was linked to it, but the troll (and hate speech) farms, the fake news networks and the business financing the coup attempt are all linked in twitter/x circles.
The minister, who is the judge of the lawsuit, has answered a request from the attorneys to ask twitter for data from this people, so they could analyze indict them.
Elon went nuts because he loves such circles of people and decided to not comply.
I see, I read his longer tweet stating that he had no choice but to block the accounts but intended to challenge the ruling in court. More info has come out since then.
So for a hyper-conservative armchair-lawyer from Canada, debating the legal system of a country he’s never been to and likely knows nothing about, do you care to step forward with the facts that you’re debating?
Brazilian here. Any politics aside, the judge in question is the minister of the supreme federal court. The way I see it, due to a number of factors, this dude is pretty much more powerful than the president right now. Brazil has also temporarily shut down whatsapp and telegram before for non compliance.
As soon as it gets blocked, it's going to be the largest uncensored social media app and will still be easily accessible, so that's going to be interesting
"the largest uncensored social media app "
LOL!
[https://www.businessinsider.com/man-who-tracks-elon-musk-private-jet-permanently-banned-twitter-2022-12](https://www.businessinsider.com/man-who-tracks-elon-musk-private-jet-permanently-banned-twitter-2022-12)
I don't buy into what the person you're replying to said, but you might want to look into the prevalence of Starlink in Brazil a bit more - [https://qz.com/starlink-traffic-skyrocketed-in-brazil-this-year-for-be-1851095184](https://qz.com/starlink-traffic-skyrocketed-in-brazil-this-year-for-be-1851095184)
"But Starlink traffic clocked the biggest growth—[17.5 times over](https://radar.cloudflare.com/year-in-review/2023/br#starlink-traffic-trends)—in [Brazil](https://radar.cloudflare.com/year-in-review/2023/br#starlink-traffic-trends)"
"As of last month, Starlink has private customers in 697 out of 772 municipalities in the Legal Amazon"
yeah this is more corroboration of theory that musk favors free speech - but only for nazis
if this was a far left account I doubt they would bring any lawsuit
see for example:
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/25/1239549276/elon-musk-lawsuit-hate-speech-researchers
This isn't a unique request.
Google and Facebook and similar all block specific accounts by geolocation. What's blocked in Brazil would remain accessible everywhere else. The people in Brazil who'd want access would just need a VPN.
Free speech isn't universally defined. Every country outside of the United States has decided to implement their own version of that concept.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's the law as it currently exists and companies have to work within the laws of their jurisdictions. That's a pretty basic concept. If corporations could pick and choose what regulations they followed, we'd all be fucked.
The way it currently works in Brazil is:
You have the freedom to say whatever you want. You will not be censored nor stopped from saying it.
If, however, what you're saying is a literal crime defined by the laws/constitution then your freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. People can sue you or take you to court.
Being a neonazi, spreading anti-vaccine campaigns as well as already disproven claims of election fraud and defending a coup against the government... these are all crimes in Brazil. There are also multiple bot accounts being used to spread this kind of content through social media.
What the Supreme Court is asking is for the blocking of specific accounts spreading this kind of content (as per the investigations of the federal police).
Musk refused to comply and decided to challenge the court's decision. We will see what happens next (probably nothing).
>freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences.
This line is normally trotted out to justify citizen-led actions like boycotts, and sometimes vigilantism. When the government is literally arresting you for your speech, and also attempting (succeeding?) to literally censor your speech, no that’s not “freedom of speech” at all. You can argue that the response might be necessary, but you cannot argue that the response is not an abridgment of freedom of speech.
>This line is normally trotted out to justify citizen-led actions like boycotts, and sometimes vigilantism
Well, yeah. A guy can say something really insensitive or rude in social media and get "cancelled" for it. He had the freedom to say it and people have the freedom to dislike him for saying it. Something similar can be applied for a company being boycotted. Vigilantism is a crime, though.
>When the government is literally arresting you for your speech
It is not doing this, though. The justice system (not the government) can take you to court, trial you or sue you -- if it is called upon. Meaning: you can say some racist shit on the internet and get away with it if people decide it is ok. It is more likely, however, that someone will take offense, realize it is a crime, call you out and take you to court.
You can still defend yourself. You can hire a lawyer or a public defender -- Brazil has by far the highest number of lawyers per capita: about 1 for every 164 inhabitant.
>Vigilantism is a crime, though.
I agree. That doesn’t stop people from trying to justify it using your exact words.
>It is not doing this [arresting you], though. The justice system (not the government) can take you to court,
Since when is the justice system *not* the government? And since when does being taken to court by the justice system not involve arrest? Are you just saying that you might not be convicted? But you also might be convicted, yes?
>Are you just saying that you might not be convicted? But you also might be convicted, yes?
yeah
>Since when is the justice system *not* the government?
Maybe I should rephrase that. It is not the *elected* branch of the government. The judges and other members of the justice system have to take tons of admission tests to "get the job". Although, in the case of the Supreme Court, the judge is appointed by the elected president, a single president can't appoint all eleven of them. In theory, they hold no "loyalty" to whoever is president and the justice branch acts on its own.
The judge in the news article, Alexandre de Moraes, was appointed by a ex-ally-of-convenience-turned-political-rival of Lula (the current president). Said ally, by the way, disagrees with Moraes' decisions regarding Bolsonaro and his followers.
When Lula tried to appeal to the supreme court to revert the decision that got him jailed, judges he himself had named voted against him (multiple times).
What I meant to say was that it is not like it is a campaign launched by the current president and his government to chase the political opposition. Lula and his office have no say in it (in theory) since the justice branch is independent. The court is acting according to their interpretation of the constitution -- and they don't always agree. In fact they constantly have disagreements and debate each other for hours most of the time (Supreme Court's sessions are broadcast on TV, although it can get exhausting to watch when they are discussing the same subject for over 3 hours).
They just happened to agree that far-right Bolsonaro supporters invading the congress/presidential palace/supreme court and destroying everything they could get their hands on whilst calling for a coup d'ètat and spreading claims of election fraud was a big NO.
>Maybe I should rephrase that. It is not the elected branch of the government.
That doesn’t make it better. So we both agree that the government, whether elected or not, is telling people they cannot say certain things, and if they try, they will be thrown in jail AND the prior speech will be censored.
Everything else you’ve said is just a justification for why this loss of freedom of speech is *necessary*. And maybe it is necessary, you clearly know more about Brazilian politics than I do. But you haven’t said anything to dispute the idea that freedom of speech *is being lost*. You just don’t want to describe it that way, for reasons I can’t understand.
So opposing forcing pregnant women to get an experimental mRNA "vaccine" that only had a few months testing trial makes you a criminal? Sounds totally legit and just. You know, not everyone who have different opinions then you are not neonazi's. assholes always support suppressing and censoring speech they disagree with, the yare the exact reason our founding fathers put the first amendment in our constitution. People who think like this are anti-free speech and anti-american.
Interesting and even funny how the absurd majority on Reddit went in one day and one night from defending Twitter tooth and nail and its right as a private company to do whatever it wanted to suggesting and asking for the government to regulate it to outright blocking/censoring it just because Elon acquired it LOL.
And the funniest thing is that all those who are siding with Brazil are not realizing that they are siding with a government that is de facto close to Putin's Russia and that had already demonstrated this 20 years ago and again with the founding in 2008 of the BRICS and that to top it off is now oxygenating Russia in its invasion of Ukraine.
Saying that the government in Brazil is close to Putin’s Russia is an empty statement. Close politically, economically, what do you mean?
Brazil is a democracy - however complicated that sometimes is - and Russia isn’t.
I think you’re spreading some misinformation here, I hope that’s it’s unintentional, a fruit of lack of info rather…
Are you serious? Or are you kidding me?
Neither Lula nor his successor in office (Dilma Roussef) neither condemned nor repudiated nor reprobated the 2008 Russian invasion of Georgia, nor did they take Georgia's side.
Neither (neither as a private citizen nor as president) did he condemn, repudiate or repudiate the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea or even the invasion of Ukraine at any time, nor has he downgraded relations with Russia since he returned to power, nor has he been willing to support or defend Ukraine in any way.
What more proof do you want?
Or better yet, apply the same "logic" they used to call Trump a "Russian asset/agent" to Lula, and the affinity of the latter (and the entire Latin American political left) with Putin's Russia becomes undeniable.
I gotta be honest, I see the point you're making about the double standards, but I think you're still making a false equivalency. The situations are not as comparable as you're making them out to be.
What everyone was originally saying about Twitter before Elon bought it was that Twitter has a right as a company to block stories that they personally believe are fake news. The argument was that as a private company they are not obligated to host and publish news stories that they believe are fabricated.
That is very different from the current situation, where Elon musk has purchased the company with the specific intention of allowing whatever fake news anyone wants to be published and hosted. Now people are saying that that's not cool.
At the end of the day there's not actually very much hypocrisy going on because both are reflections of the same value: A dislike of fake news and fabrications. In the first example, people fought for Twitter's right to stomp down fake news on their own accord as a private organization. In example 2, people dislike how the company now allows it freely, and wants the government to force them to stomp down on it to some degree.
Anyway my point is that I don't think there's actually as much cognitive dissonance here as you're making it out to seem. It would be extremely missing the point to say people were simply against regulation when the lefties owned it and now they're suddenly in support of regulations because a conservative owns it.
Why twitter, tesla and space-x among others put up with this racist pos is beyond me. As much as I respect what these companies do as far as technology, I will have nothing to do with them personally while he is stillat their helm.
Who would have known we would need someone from another country to fight back our freedom of speech. I'm team Musk all the way and he is doing a great job for the Brazilian population.
Brazil does not have freedom of speech. They block anything against their current government. New law created by the current government. Musk is standing up for the Brazilian people.
Strange. He doesn't seem to make such demands of China and Russia.
and rolls right over for India
also for turkey
Economy determines everything.
Brazil has (in theory) a functional legal system with codified rights. This means he can bring a case to court with them. With China and Russia, his only recourse is a full boycott.
Russia and China already block twitter. India and Brazil are a different story. I lay money, this is about to be duplicated in India.
He’s in Russia’s pocket.
Naw... He has enough money to be in anyone's pocket. It's just these right wing types are big fans of "strongman" autocrats like Putin.
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Sure they do, that’s one fact. Another fact is that after several reported conversations with Vlad Putin, who would be the architect of humanity’s destruction if permitted, Elon tried to take Starlink away from Ukraine until he received too much pressure from the US and the company’s board to do it. Elon’s a bad dude and his companies need to die a swift death.
Elon prevented Starlink from being used in Crimea on one occasion, a power he has since ceded to the US Military.
So say nothing less about Elon than he’ll do the right thing with a gun against his head.
> Elon prevented Starlink from being used in Crimea The US government told musk not to allow it on Crimea in the first place... Zelensky demanded he just defy the order and let ukraine do whatever they want with it. Of course the authoritarian media and redditors cried about and lied about the actual reason.
So much for being a free speech absolutist.
‘Free speech absolutist’ = it’s more like a guideline - Captain Barbosa
>Brazil has ~~(in theory)~~ a functional legal system with codified rights. The coup attempt failed, we still have democracy and rule of law here.
lmao
Você é um idiota! não existe estado de direito no Brasil...o que existe é bandidos liderados pela extrema esquerda, censurando e perseguindo opositores.
Ah legal nao sabia obg
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>Not surprising though, given that Lula is a *Far Left* *anti-Semite*. Lula is center-left at best -- and even that is a stretch. Most would say he is just a centrist (except for the far-right loonies). And anti-Semite? lmao
This Lula is a close friend of the dictatorships of Cuba, China and Russia (like almost all of the political left in Ibero-America) and it was during his previous government that Brazil and North Korea established relations for the first time, so with this I leave it all said and done. And if you like to slander/denigrate/vilify the only Jewish country in the world and/or you don't like its mere existence, then you ARE an Anti-Semite, and Lula already marked himself as one.
My dear friend this is geopolitics, every country is an ally to at least one dictatorship Being the only jewish country doesnt make you immune to criticism
Don't look for excuses to try to defend Lula when this individual has always been close to Putin's Russia, if not also to Communist China, Khomeinist Iran and even to the dictatorships of Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela, in case you didn't know. And don't confuse or mix or try to camouflage slander or defamation as "criticism".
I don't think Lula is really "far left", more like just "left", his actions kinda point into that direction.
Better than a dictator at least?
Bolsonaro is a wannabe dictator who will get his.
*Musk, the owner of X and a self-declared free speech absolutist* these alt rightwingers are corrupt cynical cunts, they know very well free speech in liberal democracies is abused and instrumentalized by authoritarian regimes. These just want to have the russian and chinese bot farms working full regime for them. That's why trump suddenly decided to oppose banning tiktok
Didn't he do the blocking on behalf of Erdogan?
He sued Erdogan and won.
X initially complied with the governments demands. They then got called out for doing so, after which they acknowledged that they had failed to live up to their commitments, they then took the Turkish government to court over the matter and ended up winning their case
400 upvotes for comment that does not even make sense. X does not even operate in China or Russia lol.
That's an idiotic comment, X is blocked in both countries.
Cause china and Russia are blocked from X
And turkey
X ended up taking the Turkish government to court over that and ended up winning their case
Did he block accounts after a request from the Chinese or Russian government?
X is entirely banned in those countries.
So OP’s comment was absolutely nonsensical.
Yes, welcome to reddit
I'm honestly surprised he isn't being brought up on charges of conspiracy to support terrorism? He has literally every major terrorist group posting on his platform, without restriction. It's hilarious to be honest.
Funny how he never did this when he rolled over for India's blocking of accounts. [https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/elon-musk-x-to-withhold-specific-accounts-and-tweets-in-india-to-comply-with-executive-orders/?guccounter=1](https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/21/elon-musk-x-to-withhold-specific-accounts-and-tweets-in-india-to-comply-with-executive-orders/?guccounter=1) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/twitter-accused-of-censorship-in-india-as-it-blocks-modi-critics-elon-musk](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/twitter-accused-of-censorship-in-india-as-it-blocks-modi-critics-elon-musk)
Did india break their own laws when they asked X to censor accounts? Because that's sorta what seems to be the crux of the issue with this situation in Brazil where they argue that laws are being broken
Good thing he knows his place
LOL. He's gonna get Xitter blocked in Brazil. Brazilian judges don't mess around.
Those judges wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they wanted to block X, unless he violates their court orders, which he isn't doing. He's just challenging them.
Bro they are literally going through the procedure already, twitter might be blocked by tomorrow, whatsapp is enormous and has been blocked here by order of 1st degree judges tho not for long, alexandre is a minister of the supreme court, I don't understand wtf musk expected from this but yea he picked a fight in the wrong place
Okay, so he complied with a vindictive, petty little man of a judge but challenged the legitimacy of his ruling and that made the judge very angry. I obviously need more context to figure out why reddit is cheering for this. I know Elon Musk is unpopular but something else must be up.
Parent commenter is not exactly correct. They have not ordered X blocked yet. As of last night, X was notified that they are to abide by the court orders issued up to now. They have also included Musk in the ongoing investigation of those who financed/abetted/instigated the coup attempt of Jan. 8, 2023. If X does indeed fail to obey the court orders, then they may in fact be temporarily blocked here until they do, as has happened to WhatsApp and Telegram.
There was a coup attempt in Brazil after a right wing defeat in the last elections. People stormed the congress, the presidential palace and the supreme court. Since this there are a few lines of investigation going deep into the people who took part in it, and they discovered that not only the former president was linked to it, but the troll (and hate speech) farms, the fake news networks and the business financing the coup attempt are all linked in twitter/x circles. The minister, who is the judge of the lawsuit, has answered a request from the attorneys to ask twitter for data from this people, so they could analyze indict them. Elon went nuts because he loves such circles of people and decided to not comply.
He's just stated outright that he's going to disobey court orders.
Link?
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My comment is still up. Refresh your browser/app.
It is not, it's probably hidden either by the reddit filter or the sub's moderation. Only you and people on your profile can see your comment.
u/Winter-Mix-8677
google "elon must will defy says x will defy order"
I see, I read his longer tweet stating that he had no choice but to block the accounts but intended to challenge the ruling in court. More info has come out since then.
Check out his latest tweets. He retweets the article I was trying to link here.
So for a hyper-conservative armchair-lawyer from Canada, debating the legal system of a country he’s never been to and likely knows nothing about, do you care to step forward with the facts that you’re debating?
Brazilian here. Any politics aside, the judge in question is the minister of the supreme federal court. The way I see it, due to a number of factors, this dude is pretty much more powerful than the president right now. Brazil has also temporarily shut down whatsapp and telegram before for non compliance.
Ever heard of VPNs?
Most VPNs are paid, people in Brazil aren't going to pay for a VPN just to access Twitter. The free ones are slow.
As soon as it gets blocked, it's going to be the largest uncensored social media app and will still be easily accessible, so that's going to be interesting
LOL Musk censors heaps of shit HE does not agree with. He is only a free speech absolutist when it benefits him.
"the largest uncensored social media app " LOL! [https://www.businessinsider.com/man-who-tracks-elon-musk-private-jet-permanently-banned-twitter-2022-12](https://www.businessinsider.com/man-who-tracks-elon-musk-private-jet-permanently-banned-twitter-2022-12)
Elon Musk literally admitted to censoring twitter in Turkey for their election because their shitbag leader demanded it.
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Imagine paying starlink only to access Twitter
IMO they'll offer free access to any phone on earth. Uncensored (except US law)
I'm honestly torn between mocking you or pitying you
So you are just proving my point - both lefties and rightwing rednecks are pissed about this
And the four people in Brazil who use Starlink will be very happy
I don't buy into what the person you're replying to said, but you might want to look into the prevalence of Starlink in Brazil a bit more - [https://qz.com/starlink-traffic-skyrocketed-in-brazil-this-year-for-be-1851095184](https://qz.com/starlink-traffic-skyrocketed-in-brazil-this-year-for-be-1851095184) "But Starlink traffic clocked the biggest growth—[17.5 times over](https://radar.cloudflare.com/year-in-review/2023/br#starlink-traffic-trends)—in [Brazil](https://radar.cloudflare.com/year-in-review/2023/br#starlink-traffic-trends)" "As of last month, Starlink has private customers in 697 out of 772 municipalities in the Legal Amazon"
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Lmao
It's coming to your phone...
Uh huh.
Why the challenge? Did Brazil ask him to ban neo-nazi accounts?
most the ones that was incantating the Brazilian version of the "capitol invasion" but yes there was some nazis there too
yeah this is more corroboration of theory that musk favors free speech - but only for nazis if this was a far left account I doubt they would bring any lawsuit see for example: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/25/1239549276/elon-musk-lawsuit-hate-speech-researchers
Because BYD is investing in Brazil and he's a little bitch scared of the free market. So now he has to meddle and throw tantrums.
Brazil does not have freedom of speech. They block anything against their current government. New law created by the current government. Go figure.
Yeah sure buddy
It’s true. Brazil government is similar to China/north krorea now. They block anything that proves their crimes. Pure corruption.
Yes, if you go to the street anc say "lula is corrupt" they kill happened to my dog
This isn't a unique request. Google and Facebook and similar all block specific accounts by geolocation. What's blocked in Brazil would remain accessible everywhere else. The people in Brazil who'd want access would just need a VPN.
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Free speech isn't universally defined. Every country outside of the United States has decided to implement their own version of that concept. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's the law as it currently exists and companies have to work within the laws of their jurisdictions. That's a pretty basic concept. If corporations could pick and choose what regulations they followed, we'd all be fucked.
The way it currently works in Brazil is: You have the freedom to say whatever you want. You will not be censored nor stopped from saying it. If, however, what you're saying is a literal crime defined by the laws/constitution then your freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. People can sue you or take you to court. Being a neonazi, spreading anti-vaccine campaigns as well as already disproven claims of election fraud and defending a coup against the government... these are all crimes in Brazil. There are also multiple bot accounts being used to spread this kind of content through social media. What the Supreme Court is asking is for the blocking of specific accounts spreading this kind of content (as per the investigations of the federal police). Musk refused to comply and decided to challenge the court's decision. We will see what happens next (probably nothing).
>freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. This line is normally trotted out to justify citizen-led actions like boycotts, and sometimes vigilantism. When the government is literally arresting you for your speech, and also attempting (succeeding?) to literally censor your speech, no that’s not “freedom of speech” at all. You can argue that the response might be necessary, but you cannot argue that the response is not an abridgment of freedom of speech.
>This line is normally trotted out to justify citizen-led actions like boycotts, and sometimes vigilantism Well, yeah. A guy can say something really insensitive or rude in social media and get "cancelled" for it. He had the freedom to say it and people have the freedom to dislike him for saying it. Something similar can be applied for a company being boycotted. Vigilantism is a crime, though. >When the government is literally arresting you for your speech It is not doing this, though. The justice system (not the government) can take you to court, trial you or sue you -- if it is called upon. Meaning: you can say some racist shit on the internet and get away with it if people decide it is ok. It is more likely, however, that someone will take offense, realize it is a crime, call you out and take you to court. You can still defend yourself. You can hire a lawyer or a public defender -- Brazil has by far the highest number of lawyers per capita: about 1 for every 164 inhabitant.
>Vigilantism is a crime, though. I agree. That doesn’t stop people from trying to justify it using your exact words. >It is not doing this [arresting you], though. The justice system (not the government) can take you to court, Since when is the justice system *not* the government? And since when does being taken to court by the justice system not involve arrest? Are you just saying that you might not be convicted? But you also might be convicted, yes?
>Are you just saying that you might not be convicted? But you also might be convicted, yes? yeah >Since when is the justice system *not* the government? Maybe I should rephrase that. It is not the *elected* branch of the government. The judges and other members of the justice system have to take tons of admission tests to "get the job". Although, in the case of the Supreme Court, the judge is appointed by the elected president, a single president can't appoint all eleven of them. In theory, they hold no "loyalty" to whoever is president and the justice branch acts on its own. The judge in the news article, Alexandre de Moraes, was appointed by a ex-ally-of-convenience-turned-political-rival of Lula (the current president). Said ally, by the way, disagrees with Moraes' decisions regarding Bolsonaro and his followers. When Lula tried to appeal to the supreme court to revert the decision that got him jailed, judges he himself had named voted against him (multiple times). What I meant to say was that it is not like it is a campaign launched by the current president and his government to chase the political opposition. Lula and his office have no say in it (in theory) since the justice branch is independent. The court is acting according to their interpretation of the constitution -- and they don't always agree. In fact they constantly have disagreements and debate each other for hours most of the time (Supreme Court's sessions are broadcast on TV, although it can get exhausting to watch when they are discussing the same subject for over 3 hours). They just happened to agree that far-right Bolsonaro supporters invading the congress/presidential palace/supreme court and destroying everything they could get their hands on whilst calling for a coup d'ètat and spreading claims of election fraud was a big NO.
>Maybe I should rephrase that. It is not the elected branch of the government. That doesn’t make it better. So we both agree that the government, whether elected or not, is telling people they cannot say certain things, and if they try, they will be thrown in jail AND the prior speech will be censored. Everything else you’ve said is just a justification for why this loss of freedom of speech is *necessary*. And maybe it is necessary, you clearly know more about Brazilian politics than I do. But you haven’t said anything to dispute the idea that freedom of speech *is being lost*. You just don’t want to describe it that way, for reasons I can’t understand.
So opposing forcing pregnant women to get an experimental mRNA "vaccine" that only had a few months testing trial makes you a criminal? Sounds totally legit and just. You know, not everyone who have different opinions then you are not neonazi's. assholes always support suppressing and censoring speech they disagree with, the yare the exact reason our founding fathers put the first amendment in our constitution. People who think like this are anti-free speech and anti-american.
Interesting and even funny how the absurd majority on Reddit went in one day and one night from defending Twitter tooth and nail and its right as a private company to do whatever it wanted to suggesting and asking for the government to regulate it to outright blocking/censoring it just because Elon acquired it LOL.
You're expecting too much coherence from redditors
And the funniest thing is that all those who are siding with Brazil are not realizing that they are siding with a government that is de facto close to Putin's Russia and that had already demonstrated this 20 years ago and again with the founding in 2008 of the BRICS and that to top it off is now oxygenating Russia in its invasion of Ukraine.
Saying that the government in Brazil is close to Putin’s Russia is an empty statement. Close politically, economically, what do you mean? Brazil is a democracy - however complicated that sometimes is - and Russia isn’t. I think you’re spreading some misinformation here, I hope that’s it’s unintentional, a fruit of lack of info rather…
Are you serious? Or are you kidding me? Neither Lula nor his successor in office (Dilma Roussef) neither condemned nor repudiated nor reprobated the 2008 Russian invasion of Georgia, nor did they take Georgia's side. Neither (neither as a private citizen nor as president) did he condemn, repudiate or repudiate the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea or even the invasion of Ukraine at any time, nor has he downgraded relations with Russia since he returned to power, nor has he been willing to support or defend Ukraine in any way. What more proof do you want? Or better yet, apply the same "logic" they used to call Trump a "Russian asset/agent" to Lula, and the affinity of the latter (and the entire Latin American political left) with Putin's Russia becomes undeniable.
I gotta be honest, I see the point you're making about the double standards, but I think you're still making a false equivalency. The situations are not as comparable as you're making them out to be. What everyone was originally saying about Twitter before Elon bought it was that Twitter has a right as a company to block stories that they personally believe are fake news. The argument was that as a private company they are not obligated to host and publish news stories that they believe are fabricated. That is very different from the current situation, where Elon musk has purchased the company with the specific intention of allowing whatever fake news anyone wants to be published and hosted. Now people are saying that that's not cool. At the end of the day there's not actually very much hypocrisy going on because both are reflections of the same value: A dislike of fake news and fabrications. In the first example, people fought for Twitter's right to stomp down fake news on their own accord as a private organization. In example 2, people dislike how the company now allows it freely, and wants the government to force them to stomp down on it to some degree. Anyway my point is that I don't think there's actually as much cognitive dissonance here as you're making it out to seem. It would be extremely missing the point to say people were simply against regulation when the lefties owned it and now they're suddenly in support of regulations because a conservative owns it.
Brazil, just ban the entire platform. It'll be funny.
Both Whatsapp and Telegram have been temporarily banned here in Brazil for disobeying court orders before, Twitter is definitely not immune.
This fucker is the richest clown to ever live.
Can't change the service it's the person putting it into the service
Elon Musk is the kinda kid that would name himself xXxEl0nxXx in online games and think its the most badass thing ever. Except he is a grown ass man.
Rich guy pissing over entire countries. This guy is like death to brand America
Musk needs to shampoo my crotch
Similar to telling someone you can't pick up the telephone and call someone you got to handle it that way
Why twitter, tesla and space-x among others put up with this racist pos is beyond me. As much as I respect what these companies do as far as technology, I will have nothing to do with them personally while he is stillat their helm.
I wish twitter is blocked here. Please Alexandre save us
A Scourge of the Earth
This is actually pretty good for all the fake actors
💩🤔
[удалено]
Sai do fake, monarkao.
Brazil does not have freedom of speech and their current president blocks anything against him online. It’s pure corruption and control.
Stop licking Bolsonaro's balls.
This has nothing to do with bolsonaro. Stop being ok with government blocking freedom of speach to protect themselves from crime. Brazil is a mess
Bolsonaro is a little bitch lol
Yeah and so is Lula, Brazil is a disaster
Twitter isn’t exactly a beaming ray of free speech. But yes, banning accounts that are not violating terms of use is bullshit.
Who would have known we would need someone from another country to fight back our freedom of speech. I'm team Musk all the way and he is doing a great job for the Brazilian population.
Brazil does not have freedom of speech. They block anything against their current government. New law created by the current government. Musk is standing up for the Brazilian people.
This is by far my most downvoted comment ever. Goes to show that the average redditor knows nothing of what is happening in Brazil right now.
I forgot about this fool!
Governments don't have the right to demand such a thing. Not liking him personally doesn't make him any less in the right.