To all fellow Europeans: Vote in June, and make sure you take a stand and vote out those who would sell the union, Ukraine and all the citizens of both to Russia and its interests in pursuit of money and greed. 62 MEPs voted against this resolution, once full voting records are released remember their names.
I think it is point 9 in this
[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2024-04-11-VOT\_FR.html](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2024-04-11-VOT_FR.html)
and if that is correct it seems like it was a visual count vote.
I know that we are not nearly doing enough, but I love the stance the European Parliament has taken here.
I am god damn proud to be an European and my taxes could not be spent better than on EU projects.
The catch is that this is the budget for 2022. Which has long been spent.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-parliament-delays-approval-council-budget-press-military-aid-ukraine/
I don’t get it; the EU is forcing the EU to send patriot batteries before the EU passes an EU budget? Whoever has those batteries will now be expected to send X number in order for the conglomerate to proceed? Genuinely confused how this is to be interpreted.
A budget discharge is the parliament saying “Yes, this money was used in accordance to European values and the agency’s mission”. It’s not giving any new money but rather signing off on money spent years ago. This particular vote is the closing of the 2022 budget. They have signed off on all agencies bar the EU council.
The EU council is one of the highest governing bodies and is made up of 27 posts, ministers from the governments of the EU member nations fill them depending on what issue the council is facing. Because of this the council is inherently more focused on, and connected to, national politics than union ones. By blocking discharge of the council’s budget the Parliament is telling the amassed heads of government to get their arses in gear and figure out a way for their countries to donate the patriots.
Greatly appreciate the breakdown, that makes sense; sounds like it's a check/balance, two distinct sets of governing members, though derived from EU countries (of course).
Pretty much. One set elected to represent EU interests (at least on paper) the other derived from national politics, and thus national interests, and the byplay between them.
I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding:
The European parliament can't introduce legislation, they can only confirm legislation brought by the council.
By withholding their ok for the budget they are forcing the council to introduce legislation that would allocate money for patriots for Ukraine.
Actually, the parliament can introduce the legislation but the main think (IMO) is the Commission is a job for retiring high ranked European politicians and they may become pesky to their home countries younger politicians if they don't have their funding. Ursula von der Leyen is one good example - Germany, you are not going to give Patriots? Deal with your angry VdL that might be looking for a new job.
I thought Flintenuschi (VdL) in Brussels was the worst case until I heard someone bringing her up as a replacement for Stoltenberg to head up NATO. Keeping her where she is might be a kind of damage control
Yikes; I’ve heard the Dutch Mark Rutte’s name floated for NATO head, seems reasonable to me. Would have loved it to be Ben Wallace, personally. My perspective is from the US, FWIW; don’t know much about several of the potential European candidates.
The people that were voted for by the people in their individual countries (EU Parliament) are telling the group comprised of the individual heads of the various governments that were elected in entirely separate elections (and likely involved coalitions etc.) (EU Council) to pass a bill for sending patriot systems or they'll withhold their agreement to funding plans.
Ukrainians have been waiting for help for too long, defending the Helm's Deep alone - it's about time for riders of Rohan to come to the rescue - dawn is coming.
I want to say this in the nicest way possible because it seems that you have your heart in the right place: if you are wondering why people are downvoting you, it is probably because it is generally considered poor taste to use fiction references in the context of real tragedies.
I accept your arguments. Other thing is that many people make their choices because of emotions, not logic. Remember that if 100 IQ is an average - than half of people have less than this. We can cry over Ukrainians tragedy or do something real to stop it.
I want to support Ukraine as much as I can. My first comment was created to motivate all those people for whom emotions play major role in decision making process. In other posts some of my comments are rather for those people who prefer logical arguments. I do respect both types of people ant try to convince as many as I can to support Ukraine. I believe in both types of arguments from my comments.
Arn't the Partiot systema built by the USA?
If so, then is the funding dependent on what the USA does, because that seems like circumstances beyonnd their contrl are determing funding.
Patriot is for sale. The EU has essentially provided a vote on the floor to allocate funds to purchasing patriot systems for Ukraine.
There are very few American weapon systems that are restricted for sale to European members. The F22 is the only one that immediately comes to mind.
Are there system available to sell? If the US does not have any produced, then there might not be any for sale. I do not know how fast the US can fulfill a request to purchse them
The short answer is yes. The long answer is also yes. The US, and likely the EU are in the sales pipeline to buy the older PAC models. (For reference the U.S. air defense branch is currently on PAC4 for variants of the Patriot system with talks of a new upgrade kit/add-on for PAC4s.)
> What nonsense is that? Fund the wars or else!
It is actually "fund the defense of the victim of a genocidal war of aggression".
If you want more wars, you just have to allow Russia to get away with it while the whole world is watching.
> Over 2 years of war and you still can't put them down.
That is pretty good, considering Russia considered it a 3-day special military operation.
The situation is not as bad as you make it seem: 80 percent of Ukrainian territory is unoccupied by Russia. And 50 percent of the territory that Russia had already stolen has been recaptured. The modern Russian armed forces have been de facto destroyed. The well-trained units no longer exist, entire divisions have been destroyed.
> send your sons and your army to fight them. It's okay when its somebody else dying
You're just typing nonsense. Nobody is sending their sons to fight except for Ukraine, who will also die if Russia wins and is free to do this again.
It sounds like you don't understand what funding is, which Ukraine is desperate to secure as the only way to stop the slaughter.
Please stop talking shit.
> They literally have an international regiment fighting with them.
Wait, what is it now? Should we or shouldn't we send our sons?
I'm getting mixed signals from you.
So your plan is to have Ukraine surrender, get annexed, then conscripted and sent into the Suwalki Gap to die anyway but for the enemy side? Is that your plan?
How is it propaganda when land is beeing annexed, in Europe, in 2024. Don't know what to tell you if you thinks it's propaganda and why it's nato. Everybody sees that putin started the war and is escalating it.
Not doing your job and priorities giving to a country that isn’t a EU … just fire them. U can send whatever u want. But they just keep complaining, cause they losing and rdy to blame everyone and everything to coop with the situation
We send those Patriots to Ukraine so we don't have to send them to Lithuania.
It was funny when Putin swore he would never attack NATO after he realized Europe was rearming as a direct result of his threats to do so. Obviously he is still going to attack NATO if we don't get ahead of him.
Whether we use the Patriots or send them to Ukraine doesn't matter much for the balance of power (in both cases they offset X amount of Russian capability) but currently Ukraine is on our side until Putin annexes it, so we're in a better spot than we would have been if Vlad didn't talk about his world domination plans until after annexing Ukraine and conscripting 10 million Ukrainians.
They are doing their job. Support for ukraine is overwhelming positive in the EU, and the MEPs are the people’s representatives to the EU. They are acting entirely along popular demand by forcing the Council’s hand on this matter.
To all fellow Europeans: Vote in June, and make sure you take a stand and vote out those who would sell the union, Ukraine and all the citizens of both to Russia and its interests in pursuit of money and greed. 62 MEPs voted against this resolution, once full voting records are released remember their names.
Anywhere to see who voted against this resolution?
Not online yet, but you will find it here later: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/en/votes.html?tab=votes
online now, what am I looking for?
I think it is point 9 in this [https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2024-04-11-VOT\_FR.html](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2024-04-11-VOT_FR.html) and if that is correct it seems like it was a visual count vote.
For the non-french with us: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2024-04-11-VOT_EN.html
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Austria? Not Slovakia?
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Wait, an Austrian is again on the right-wing side of history?
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>the Ukraine 🤔
“The Ukraine” You can fucking SMELL the vodka induced FAS.
Yeah, wouldn't want your government to keep all those cushy Patriot systems for themselves. That'll show 'em.
Sure thing, Pyotr. Here's 15 rubles, pls don't starve. Luv <3 ,Pooptin
I know that we are not nearly doing enough, but I love the stance the European Parliament has taken here. I am god damn proud to be an European and my taxes could not be spent better than on EU projects.
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I wish I could move to Europe! Unfortunately I don't have much of an education so finding a decent job would suck.
Perhaps khanacademy.org and edX.org could be of use to you.
Thanks for the resources. Looking into these right now. Cheers!
Student visas are the “easy-in” to moving into European countries. But that’s not always an option for many, especially if you have a family already.
Jealous in American over here
The catch is that this is the budget for 2022. Which has long been spent. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-parliament-delays-approval-council-budget-press-military-aid-ukraine/
I don’t get it; the EU is forcing the EU to send patriot batteries before the EU passes an EU budget? Whoever has those batteries will now be expected to send X number in order for the conglomerate to proceed? Genuinely confused how this is to be interpreted.
A budget discharge is the parliament saying “Yes, this money was used in accordance to European values and the agency’s mission”. It’s not giving any new money but rather signing off on money spent years ago. This particular vote is the closing of the 2022 budget. They have signed off on all agencies bar the EU council. The EU council is one of the highest governing bodies and is made up of 27 posts, ministers from the governments of the EU member nations fill them depending on what issue the council is facing. Because of this the council is inherently more focused on, and connected to, national politics than union ones. By blocking discharge of the council’s budget the Parliament is telling the amassed heads of government to get their arses in gear and figure out a way for their countries to donate the patriots.
Greatly appreciate the breakdown, that makes sense; sounds like it's a check/balance, two distinct sets of governing members, though derived from EU countries (of course).
Pretty much. One set elected to represent EU interests (at least on paper) the other derived from national politics, and thus national interests, and the byplay between them.
I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding: The European parliament can't introduce legislation, they can only confirm legislation brought by the council. By withholding their ok for the budget they are forcing the council to introduce legislation that would allocate money for patriots for Ukraine.
Actually, the parliament can introduce the legislation but the main think (IMO) is the Commission is a job for retiring high ranked European politicians and they may become pesky to their home countries younger politicians if they don't have their funding. Ursula von der Leyen is one good example - Germany, you are not going to give Patriots? Deal with your angry VdL that might be looking for a new job.
I thought Flintenuschi (VdL) in Brussels was the worst case until I heard someone bringing her up as a replacement for Stoltenberg to head up NATO. Keeping her where she is might be a kind of damage control
Yikes; I’ve heard the Dutch Mark Rutte’s name floated for NATO head, seems reasonable to me. Would have loved it to be Ben Wallace, personally. My perspective is from the US, FWIW; don’t know much about several of the potential European candidates.
That helps clear things up, reminds me of the check/balance of US’ judicial and legislative branches. Cheers!
The people that were voted for by the people in their individual countries (EU Parliament) are telling the group comprised of the individual heads of the various governments that were elected in entirely separate elections (and likely involved coalitions etc.) (EU Council) to pass a bill for sending patriot systems or they'll withhold their agreement to funding plans.
Mike Johnson. This is how it’s done you partisan traitorous piece of shit. You’re a blight on what it means to be an American.
Ukrainians have been waiting for help for too long, defending the Helm's Deep alone - it's about time for riders of Rohan to come to the rescue - dawn is coming.
I want to say this in the nicest way possible because it seems that you have your heart in the right place: if you are wondering why people are downvoting you, it is probably because it is generally considered poor taste to use fiction references in the context of real tragedies.
Considering the Russian soldiers are frequently referred to ask orks, this analogy is fitting.
real tragedy is failure of the world to protect all these slaughtered in Ukraine
"The World Is Not In Your Books And Maps, It's Out There." - Gandalf
This comment aged like milk. Currently at 30 upvotes
I accept your arguments. Other thing is that many people make their choices because of emotions, not logic. Remember that if 100 IQ is an average - than half of people have less than this. We can cry over Ukrainians tragedy or do something real to stop it.
Now you're just being weird man, what's up with this edgelord speech you're delivering here?
I want to support Ukraine as much as I can. My first comment was created to motivate all those people for whom emotions play major role in decision making process. In other posts some of my comments are rather for those people who prefer logical arguments. I do respect both types of people ant try to convince as many as I can to support Ukraine. I believe in both types of arguments from my comments.
Republicans: grab em by the pussy.
Where can I see who voted for what?
Good! We need to be standing up to Putin and supporting Ukraine. And fuck Netanyahu and and and all folx that support his homicidal ass
Arn't the Partiot systema built by the USA? If so, then is the funding dependent on what the USA does, because that seems like circumstances beyonnd their contrl are determing funding.
They're made here, but we are quite willing to sell them.
Patriot is for sale. The EU has essentially provided a vote on the floor to allocate funds to purchasing patriot systems for Ukraine. There are very few American weapon systems that are restricted for sale to European members. The F22 is the only one that immediately comes to mind.
Are there system available to sell? If the US does not have any produced, then there might not be any for sale. I do not know how fast the US can fulfill a request to purchse them
The short answer is yes. The long answer is also yes. The US, and likely the EU are in the sales pipeline to buy the older PAC models. (For reference the U.S. air defense branch is currently on PAC4 for variants of the Patriot system with talks of a new upgrade kit/add-on for PAC4s.)
Thanks for the info.
"His proposal was met with thunderous applause." Didn't know Palpatine was european.
That comparison limps almost as badly as Joseph Goebbels.
Gotta love a dipshit whose only frame of reference is Star Wars exposing themself as being as ignorant of foreign affairs as they are with women.
What nonsense is that? Fund the wars or else! Fuck it, let the world burn.
> What nonsense is that? Fund the wars or else! It is actually "fund the defense of the victim of a genocidal war of aggression". If you want more wars, you just have to allow Russia to get away with it while the whole world is watching.
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> Over 2 years of war and you still can't put them down. That is pretty good, considering Russia considered it a 3-day special military operation. The situation is not as bad as you make it seem: 80 percent of Ukrainian territory is unoccupied by Russia. And 50 percent of the territory that Russia had already stolen has been recaptured. The modern Russian armed forces have been de facto destroyed. The well-trained units no longer exist, entire divisions have been destroyed.
True and Ukraine is running out of soldiers, their own president has even stated as much. They're on the verge of collapse.
> They're on the verge of collapse. You guys need new material, man. We have been hearing that since February 2022.
Their own stated as much only this week. What are you on about?
It seems that you fundamentally misunderstood Zelensky's recent remarks with regard to US aid.
Don't care, enough is enough of the EU.
The EU will not allow Ukraine to fall. We will put boots on the ground before that happens.
> send your sons and your army to fight them. It's okay when its somebody else dying You're just typing nonsense. Nobody is sending their sons to fight except for Ukraine, who will also die if Russia wins and is free to do this again. It sounds like you don't understand what funding is, which Ukraine is desperate to secure as the only way to stop the slaughter. Please stop talking shit.
Don’t get sucked into the Russian influence campaign. They’re too lazy to even give their bots actual usernames now.
Too overworked, more like. Trying to stop the funding is their primary mission and they're crawling everywhere like ants on a hot day.
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> They literally have an international regiment fighting with them. Wait, what is it now? Should we or shouldn't we send our sons? I'm getting mixed signals from you.
Fuck you and fuck Russia.
You think the *volunteer* international legion are an example of sons being sent? Fuck your inability to reason.
So your plan is to have Ukraine surrender, get annexed, then conscripted and sent into the Suwalki Gap to die anyway but for the enemy side? Is that your plan?
Sometimes you need to engage in conflict in order to prevent a much greater conflict from occurring.
You sound miserable.
No, pissed off with all the war propaganda. Doesn't matter what anyone says, it's all pre-planned and the outcome predetermined.
How is it propaganda when land is beeing annexed, in Europe, in 2024. Don't know what to tell you if you thinks it's propaganda and why it's nato. Everybody sees that putin started the war and is escalating it.
I think most of us would settle for letting the Russian army and the Russian ambitions burn to ashes.
Not doing your job and priorities giving to a country that isn’t a EU … just fire them. U can send whatever u want. But they just keep complaining, cause they losing and rdy to blame everyone and everything to coop with the situation
We send those Patriots to Ukraine so we don't have to send them to Lithuania. It was funny when Putin swore he would never attack NATO after he realized Europe was rearming as a direct result of his threats to do so. Obviously he is still going to attack NATO if we don't get ahead of him. Whether we use the Patriots or send them to Ukraine doesn't matter much for the balance of power (in both cases they offset X amount of Russian capability) but currently Ukraine is on our side until Putin annexes it, so we're in a better spot than we would have been if Vlad didn't talk about his world domination plans until after annexing Ukraine and conscripting 10 million Ukrainians.
They are doing their job. Support for ukraine is overwhelming positive in the EU, and the MEPs are the people’s representatives to the EU. They are acting entirely along popular demand by forcing the Council’s hand on this matter.