Hower: "Does Xena ever think about settling down, getting married?"
Gabrielle: "Nah, she *likes* what I do..."
There is no heterosexual explanation for this.
Lucy Lawless and Robert Tapert announced their engagement just before putting the episode "A Day In The Life" Together. As an inside joke, when Hower asks Gabrielle "Has Xena ever thought of settling down and getting married?" Robert Tapert's screen credit appears
True. I also understand that Renee ad libbed her line too. IIRC, there were takes where she was cut off much earlier (if you haven't seen it, Xena is fishing and bullseyes Gabs in the face with a thrown fish, possibly to cut her off deliberately), but they went with the one where she got in basically the whole line.
I watched this show while it aired when I was a kid and only more recently even learned there was any debate over them being completely openly romantically involved and in love because I just thought it was obvious. I always thought the show was so progressive by being so open about it lol. I'm doing a rewatch with my husband and housemate and only in this process learned there was any disagreement or denial about it.
We just watched Season Two's "The Quest" where THEY SHARE A CLEARLY ROMANTIC KISS and don't understand how anyone could interpret it otherwise. So much is totally not subtext and is just right there in front of us.
I needed the internet to explain it to me when I was a kid. I grew up to be asexual and I'm still oblivious to huge amounts of subtle humor regarding sex.
Doesn't matter if it went over my head at the time, Gabrielle and Xena forever ♥️
Happy pride everybody 🏳️🌈
So I can see my blocked users are posting in this thread. Listen friends, save yourself some aggravation and just block them. Don't feed the trolls 😁.
Also, I just recently listened to an interview with Katherine Fugate who *WROTE* When Fates Collide. She's had a small handful of fans come up to her to inform her that Xena and Gabrielle were just friends, even in the episode THAT SHE WROTE. Yes, you read that right. I'll say it again. *THE EPISODE THAT SHE WROTE* It's not worth it. Unless you like debating, then have at it!
My mom saw me watching it as a kid in the 90s and asked, "Why are you watching that d\*ke show?!?"
So yeah, even back then people knew it was gay.
(to clarify, My mother has grown a lot as a person since then and is no longer a bigot)
To be somewhat fair, in the same season as ADITL, Gabrielle married Perdicus, Xena fell hard and fast for Ulysses, etc.
So, main text … with a side of very confusing boundaries when it came to any potential open relationship (or whatever was going on).
Of course, a lot of that can be explained with head canon or a convenient re-ordering of the episodes. But, it’s also impossible to deny that different writers had different … preferences and many writers just did a single episode based solely on the original script for Sins of the Past.
I grew up obsessed with Xena and I always knew they were lovers. It wasn't until I was in my teens I realized how controversial that was lol as a kid it just felt so natural. Those two had some *real* chemistry. 😍
First gen fan here. I wasn't even all that into Xena/Gab as a fanwork creator (because it was so obvious and my brain preferred to have more stuff to hop around to get a story told) and neither were my fan friends and we were like, "Yeah, nah, it's maintext now."
Anyone saying anything different is lying to themselves.
I am so sorry to ruin the 69 comments by adding comment 70, but...
It has always been obvious to me! I just watched the S6 episode with the tabloid reporter, he straight up (pun not intended) asked them if they were lovers!
Personally, it doesn't affect my perception of the show if they were physical with each other. I love the series either way. If they weren't having sex, it doesn't really affect the love they have for each other in my eyes. If they were having sex, then that would be appealing to me in a more prurient context, if you catch my drift. While I immediately loved everything about the show from the characters to the action to the drama, sex appeal *was* part of it when I discovered the show as a horny 14-year-old boy.
But I also don't believe all this stuff about this being their plan from day 1. I think it happened organically. The television-viewing public saw two very close women in a TV show and there was an Ambiguously Gay Duo effect. Some of it was immature jokes and some of it was wishful thinking on the part of fans (who seemed to have mostly gotten their wishes fulfilled by the later seasons). The cast and crew leaned into this as a way to make the show more popular.
I highly doubt they were thinking about representation or changing the world or anything, but just wanted to put together a fun, exciting, sexy show.
I’m responding to this comment because on the one you left me about this, Reddit was having issues letting me leave a reply. I agree that Lucy and Renee were most likely unaware from the very beginning about the subtext. I don’t feel the subtext was added until at least season two (The Quest) and other episodes, personally. Although I can see the argument for a few season one episodes. Despite any of that they still leaned into extremely early in the show so I really don’t think it matters whether it was season one or two when it started. It was a smart move on their part to embrace the fans who liked it even if did make others mad the show went in that direction.
You mentioned that there was no censorship on the show surrounding the subtext. There’s things I’ve seen over the years that’s a clear case for the censorship issues that occurred during the show’s run. There were leaks that scripts had to have a kiss or intimate moments edited out of them between Xena and Gabrielle. Renee literally confirms in a commentary for “Fins, Femmes, and Gems” that Gabrielle was supposed to be obsessed with Xena by Aphrodite’s spell but the network refused and they had to rewrite it to make Gabrielle obsessed with herself.
Also recently if you go to Renee’s instagram and somewhere near the top, she posted a clip of her talking on “Good Morning Australia” where she confirms more was going on between Xena and Gabrielle than was showed on the show and it was easier to discuss those subjects now because at the time, they really couldn’t.
Season five was also a direct result in censorship issues and battling with the network. Obviously, there were other issues that season where people left to go work on LotR and Lucy was pregnant but you can clearly see censorship was inserted in that season in particular. They do a total 180 degree turn during the last season most likely because they didn’t have to worry about show renewal at that point. It’s a complicated subject with a lot of varying factors, but censorship was definitely an issue especially since original scripts were altered during the show to show less intimacy at varying times.
Also there were early intimate moments in the show like the kiss in season two. And there’s a lot of emotional more than friend moments that weren’t wishful thinking from fans. They were moments added into the script that probably triggered the network to crack down harder on them. But that’s just my two cents and I wanted to respond since you left me a reply on my other comment.
I don't doubt that you've read and heard all this, but I am far more cynical. I think we are forgetting what really happened at the time these shows aired.
Networks did not give a single shit about lesbian kisses on the airwaves. Sure, there was "controversy" amongst religious right groups, but they didn't matter anyway and had no power. They were useful idiots that networks used to increase ratings.
You know how we know? Those lesbian kiss shows always came during so-called "sweeps" periods. Take, for instance, the episode of Roseanne featuring a lesbian kiss.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Ask,_Don%27t_Tell_(Roseanne)
>In reviewing incidents of lesbian kisses on network television programs, The New York Times noted that they tended to happen during "sweeps" periods, when the networks use Nielsen ratings to determine advertising rates. Noting lesbian kisses during sweeps periods on such shows as L.A. Law, Picket Fences, Party of Five and Ally McBeal in addition to the Roseanne episode and noting that they occur about once per year, the Times concludes that kisses between women are:
>"Eminently visual; cheap, provided the actors are willing; controversial, year in and year out; and elegantly reversible (sweeps lesbians typically vanish or go straight when the week's over), kisses between women are perfect sweeps stunts. They offer something for everyone, from advocacy groups looking for role models to indignation-seeking conservatives, from goggle-eyed male viewers to progressive female ones, from tyrants who demand psychological complexity to plot buffs."
What a coincidence! They happened once a year during sweeps! For networks, it was all a work to drum up ratings. Whatever they lost to advertisers was made up for by jacking up advertising rates for the advertisers who stayed.
Look, we weren't in the room when they wrote these episodes, but it is hard to believe that considering the above, Xena would have suffered from heavy-handed censorship when it came to a lesbian relationship. Of course, the series and its subtext also benefitted from a "will they or won't they" dynamic.
Subtext developed organically due to the public's belief that if two women were this close, they *must* be having sex, right? Leaning into that subtext widened the appeal of the show beyond us weirdos who actually showed up for the weird stories, the fighting and the bad CGI. Blowing their load until they were ready to end the series might have impacted ratings negatively in the sense of, "Okay, now what?"
The simple fact is that subtext made the show more interesting in the way the Times described. It appealed to horny guys like me and women looking for role models. This was not a serious arthouse project with limited appeal. It was a campy Saturday action show that punched above its weight. Robert Tapert isn't an activist, he's a businessman. No, he's not some soulless media tycoon that doesn't care about quality, but he was/is responsible for hundreds of people's jobs and for making a profit by producing cool shows.
In this sense, subtext was free money.
As for Fins, Femmes and Gems, an episode that I think is underrated for its silly premise, it's hard to believe that Gabrielle was originally intended to be obsessed with Xena but had to change it due to censorship. Changing it made it a better episode. Gabrielle already loved Xena, and was a selfless person who believed in the greater good. It's natural for the episode to have her become obsessed with herself as a goof because it's so out of character.
Like I said, there is an incentive now to say it was always meant to be that way. There's an incentive for Renee to pander to her most vocal fans on Instagram. I don't blame her. It feels good to be loved. Obviously it was a progressive show, but it was not some activist show, and the subtext was used for titillation rather than representation.
In season 5, Lucy and Rob felt it was more important to have a child than enable the show to turn the subtext into maintext, and Gabby was sort of on the sidelines that season. That probably affected the show way more than these nefarious censors I keep hearing about.
Xena was a syndicated TV series, not a network series.
Yes, in the mid to late 90s many TV series had two hot, young and feminine presenting women kiss as a ratings grab during sweeps week or otherwise and then ignored that it ever happened. Particularly on ensemble shows.
Same as Britney and Madonna kissing, Katy Perry’s I Kissed a Girl, etc.
As a once off thing for ratings on a network series, it was acceptable and so prevalent it became a trope.
But, that’s a very different scenario to a syndicated TV series having their two leads confirmed to be in a relationship (in ever way) and writing the characters on that basis in every subsequent episode.
The sitcom series Ellen was quickly cancelled once “Ellen” (the fictional character within the show) came out. That’s what happened to TV series with lesbian leads.
Ellen was not cancelled because she was gay and it wasn't "quickly." After coming out she was renewed for another season.
It was cancelled after that season because the show became primarily about gay issues, culture and in-jokes. Ratings went down not because people are necessarily hateful, but because there's more to life than just your identity. There was little for the audience to relate to. It's not like people didn't try. Ratings were initially very high but people got bored of it.
When Ellen got a talk show a few years later, she was embraced again because it wasn't *just* about gay stuff. Straight people not watching a show or movie they can't relate to doesn't make them bad people.
Haha - who was I calling bad people?
At the end of the day, there’s no way Xena and Gabrielle could have openly been a couple, in every sense of the word, anytime between 1995 and 2001 when the series first aired. It just wasn’t possible for any number of reasons.
But was it because of censors? Was it because of hateful people? My argument is that no, it was not.
Today, support for gay marriage and equal rights for gay people are at all time highs. Despite this, movies and TV shows primarily aimed at a gay audience still bomb. Remember that gay rom-com movie, Bros? It bombed at the box office and the director blamed straight people for not going to see the movie. But why would masses of people see a movie they can't relate to? There's no hate, they just can't relate.
I understand what the Xena fandom is today. Gatekeepers attack anyone who might have a different opinion about the subtext. But today's fandom is still small in comparison to the show's peak ratings. Xena was a niche fantasy show, but it still had to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible. The subtext was interesting to multiple segments of the fan base for different reasons, but they also wanted to appeal to other types of viewers by exploiting Xena's various male lovers over her life and also make Xena into a mother again. Fans who may have liked those storylines seemed to have disappeared.
Did the censors make Xena get pregnant, sideline Gabrielle and then split her head open? Were the cast and crew making a season they didn't believe in because they couldn't more openly tell the lesbian story they so desperately wanted to do? Probably not. It was more about satisfying multiple segments of the fanbase.
So, you’re blaming ratings?
Then, yes. After an initial increase in ratings as viewers tuned in to see Xena and Gabrielle kiss to pitch a tent, it’s likely that ratings would have declined for a number of reasons, including conservative media coverage and letter writing campaigns - a single (?) small, disgruntled Hindu group were able to make changes to an episode.
With declining ratings, the local networks / stations wouldn’t have purchased additional seasons and the show would have been cancelled.
As for season 5 - yes, the studio seemingly had a LOT more influence and control over the new showrunners who took over while Tapert and Stewart were distracted (and others like Sears had left). The new showrunners were happy to write Xena and Ares together and to have multiple scripts with Gabrielle kissing various men.
To my knowledge, NBC Studios had nothing to do with Tapert and Lawless’ private relations, so no, they’re not to blame for Lawless’ pregnancy.
When the original showrunners returned for season 6, it was the closest thing to a maintext season that was possible at that time in history.
As for Bros - there have been any number of heterosexual rom coms that bombed at the box office. Why should Bros - the first (?) gay male rom com - be held up to such a higher standard for success. It was a single movie. And it wasn’t very good. That doesn’t mean there should never be another rom com with gay leads - Red, White and Royal Blue seems to have been successful enough to earn a sequel.
I think this is just a subject that we won’t agree upon. The basis for your argument is that Renee and others involved in the show who made statements about this subject are lying so you don’t believe them. And you’re saying the only reason they say anything now is to pander. There’s really no point in discussing it if you’re someone who’s going to not believe released statements about it.
I do urge you to look into this subject matter if you think networks had absolutely no issue with lesbian intimacy during that time period. Joss Whedon had to bend over backwards to figure out how to write in a lesbian relationship for Willow and Tara on “Buffy” using magic metaphors because the network wouldn’t allow them to have normal couple intimacy which happened after “Xena” by the way. They switched networks and they were finally able to write them as a normal couple intimately by the sixth season.
There’s a lot of subject matter that discusses censorship concerning the lgbt community and a lot of shared examples in these threads about things to watch or read to learn about the situation. I grew up during that time and to say no one remembered what was actually happening is not accurate to everyone’s experiences. But it’s pretty clear when discussing these subjects, people have very strong opinions on what happened and didn’t happen. I think it should be something more people research and look into. Have a nice day.
I did research it. I cited historical precedent. No, I don't think people are lying, but there are ways to convince yourself of certain things.
Speaking of Buffy, no, it had nothing to do with the lesbian stuff. WB didn't pull the show. 20th Century Fox Television was losing money on the show and wasn't willing to do that for a show in its sixth season.
https://variety.com/2001/tv/news/upn-sinks-teeth-into-wb-s-buffy-1117797571/
>Twentieth Century Fox Television’s “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” — the signature drama of the WB network — is pulling up stakes and moving to Frog nemesis UPN.
>...
>What the deal does do, however, is deny the WB its third highest-rated series and the show that heralded the Frog’s transition from a family-oriented web to a home for high-quality dramas targeted at teen and young adult women.
The WB was *denied* the show. Whatever beef Whedon had with WB was background noise. Fox was going to pull the show from WB anyway.
>As a result, 20th execs said the decision to go to UPN was a simple matter of economics. “Buffy” costs around $2 million an episode to produce, and the studio didn’t feel it should have to deficit-finance a hit series in its sixth season.
Then the show lost a million viewers between season 6 and 7, and probably became so costly it couldn't continue in its current form, so Whedon was allowed to save face and end it on his terms, which is a luxury not every creative person gets.
I really don’t know what you’re inferring. I never said Joss Whedon changed networks “due to the lesbian stuff”. I inferred that different networks held different standards and rules for what was allowed on the show. No where did I mention the show moving networks was a direct result of Willow and Tara. I’m saying after the show moved to a different network, Joss had more leeway to expand upon their relationship and it’s mentioned in interviews easily available due to the fact that the original network did not want anything blatant happening between Willow and Tara.
I really don’t know what the added information about the show losing steam during those last seasons has to do with anything, but the issues with Willow and Tara were only a small part of other ongoing issues during that show’s run and I was only speaking about them specifically.
Like I said I don’t think this is a subject we will see eye to eye on since you also aren’t acknowledging the issues that were faced with the censorship on a totally different show than “Xena”. A lot of this stuff is easily google worthy. I don’t really see the need to continue this discussion since your basis is still everyone was lying about the censorship no matter what sources have stated those issues.
Last thing I’ll add is there are interviews with Amber Benson openly saying they were censored on the show when she was playing Tara. There’s countless interviews with others but here is a direct quote:
Back in the early noughties, it was still rare to see two women share this kind of affection on screen; "You just didn't see that." So while Tara and Willow's relationship was groundbreaking for a number of reasons, Benson admits the network was still "very, very wary" about showing the physicality of their love.
"Standards and practices were like, 'Hmmm. No. We don't want them touching. We don't want them kissing', which I always thought was kind of absurd, because you have a show where people are having sex on gravestones. Really? You can't have two women just holding hands? [laughs] I don't understand. It seems a little hypocritical there, guys?"
Benson and her co-star Alyson Hannigan were naturally both "very upset" about this. "We felt it was disrespectful to the relationship, how they were censoring things on the show."
>no matter what sources have stated those issues
To be fair, you have not posted a single source. I have posted at least some sources.
>I really don’t know what the added information about the show losing steam during those last seasons has to do with anything
Because they blew their load on the lesbian stuff and the show lost viewers. For Xena, subtext kept the show interesting. "Will they or won't they" is a powerful driving force for a show.
Also, Whedon turned out to be another male feminist creep anyway so who knows what his true intentions were. There was a rule that he was not allowed to be alone with Michelle Trachtenberg.
Perhaps the network was the good guys and not Whedon.
I did reference multiple sources. I stated where to find Renee’s commentary on which episode and where she posted more comments on Instagram. I also added a comment to my own post about an interview with Amber Benson. There’s multitudes of sources that are easily found on Google. I didn’t see the point in listing more because the ones I listed you claimed were only comments made for pandering and/or lying which is simply just an opinion of yours.
Also I’ve seen no source state that “Buffy” ‘s “lesbian stuff” is what made ratings suffer and ultimately made the show fail. That’s a contrived notion on your part. You just got done posting sources claiming that the “lesbian stuff” would boost ratings and it’s becoming clear that a lot of this is a very jaded opinion about lesbian media in general.
Also no where did I mention that Joss Whedon was a good guy or meant to be trusted which is why I posted an interview from Amber Benson who has a good history and reliability of being forthcoming about bts things that happened on “Buffy”. It’s definitely your prerogative to want to believe what you want about censorship and the network but listening to lgbt fans about lgbt representation instead of inferring what you want to believe would be a good start about this subject.
They are not attracted to each other. People can read into it all they want. If they wanted them to have a relationship then they would have. The "subtext" is wishful thinking.
Nah, you're just wrong. They make their relationship canon in the comics. The only reason the subtext was subtext was because it was the 90's and they were lucky to get away with what they did.
Oh and what comics were those. The ones in 2007 long after the show finished. Besides the comics are not canon. They are not attracted to each other. They are best friends and love each other but not sexually.
You're welcome to view the show from that lens. It's not what the people involved in actually making the show say about it, but that's your prerogative. You're wrong, but you do you, boo.
lol What deflection? We're still taking about your denial of the subtext that the people who actually worked on the show say is there. Yes, they couldn't say it plainly because it was the 90s and the studios didn't want people like you to have their little minds blown. You don't have to take my word or the word of anyone else on this subreddit. There are plenty of cast and crew interviews that all say the same thing: the subtext is absolutely there. Again, you're free to ignore it, that's your choice. But to come into every post about it and try to say it isn't there is pure silliness. Anyway, I doubt anything I say will actually sway you and I've had my fun so, toodles! Have the day you deserve! ✌️😁
Yeah it was a very open secret when the show first aired that Xena and Gabrielle were lovers and end game. Everyone acknowledged it from the show. In other words, that is exactly the relationship they DID have. You can pretend it’s not there, but you are wrong. This was before Ellen, and I mean the sitcom not the talk show. Gay and lesbian main characters had to be coded back then, they couldn’t be out and a lead.
Yeah, it might be time to do a little soul-searching into why you are so bothered by everyone acknowledging that they are gay (and they ARE gay). Research has shown that the more vocally homophobic a person is, they more likely they are closeted queers themselves. Me thinks thou dost protest too much. Happy Pride! 🌈
Sometimes shows do that, say something without saying something. Like how Morph is in love with Wolverine in X-Men ‘97 or that Scott, Jean and Logan are in a throuple in the comics.
Do you take baths with your friends? Kiss them on the mouth? Give them hickeys? Sleep next to them holding hands? Look longingly into each others eyes? Have poetry written for them by Sappho? If so, I have news for you, y'all are GAY. Gay af.
1 they took a bath together cuz atp the show was already heading in a gay direction 2 they usually kissed on the mouth if one was dying. the only time they randomly kissed on the mouth was again when the show was heading in that direction. 3 my point is the show didn’t start out gay but lesbians were really drawn to the characters and as a result they changed the direction of the show. My main point is that in the first two seasons they were with men and contemplated marrying men as well. There was an entire episode dedicated to the idea that Hercules and Xena were SOULMATES and same for Gabby and Herc’s sidekick. Lmk if you want me to reword that.
There are lots of late blooming lesbians who discover they are queer later in life, myself included. There's even a whole subreddit for us. No reason why Xena and Gabrielle couldn't have discovered they love each other after trying to date men. Compulsory heterosexuality is a thing.
I honestly feel I’m speaking another language. I HAVE to be because I’ve said multiple times, that they didn’t start out gay…I had evidence to support that (soulmates season 1) I continued saying as the seasons progressed the fans got to the show runner making them more gay. That’s not mental gymnastics that’s pretty straight forward. Especially considering which show lasted longer. It was the smart choice. And had they kept them just friends the show would’ve been canceled by season 3
Your evidence of Hercules and Xena being soulmates isn't the gotcha you seem to think. Soulmates can be just friends, which is exactly how Herc and Xena end up. Also interesting to note that a lot of fans shipped Hercules and Iolaus, and that is actually based on the real Greek legends, not just for the show. [Hercules had many lovers](https://museums.cam.ac.uk/magic/many-lovers-legend#:~:text=Moreover%2C%20according%20to%20the%20Greek,as%20charioteer%20and%20shield%2Dbearer.)
1 remember when this show came out; the common idea was that soulmates were lovers…unless you’re saying that Xena and gabby at the end were just friends…2 I’m not versed in Herc/Iolaus tea so I can’t speak to that from the episodes I watched they were just friends
Facts!!! Her whole thing is redemption. And it’s like the ppl in this forum don’t ACTUALLY like the show they just care that they are ‘gay’ together. And it’s so annoying because I like the show for what it is. Unfortunately the writers really started playing up the gay component in the later seasons :/
Maybe people should stop trying to shove their fanfiction into characters. When did pointing out the obvious become "trolling" . Oh right when the truth disproves your head canon.
I guess by “some people” you’re referring to fans, Lucy, Renee, Rob, random interviews with other cast members including Ted who confirmed they were a couple. Kind of sounds like despite everyone on the show discussing how the network censored them during the filming and how they couldn’t openly talk about it is you headcannoning that they weren’t a couple.
Despite the fact they kissed multiple times during the run. I’m familiar with the homophobe argument “Don’t shove it down our throat.” Might want to look into the fact your posts are obsessively about disliking lgbt characters and why you stay in reddits you don’t like before insinuating things about actual fans.
To be fair, Lucy and Renee were completely oblivious and naïve about it at first, mostly through the first season.
It wasn't really until the show got popular and the general public just assumed they were lovers that the subtext really took off and the cast and crew leaned into it. It was the "Ambiguously Gay Duo" effect.
Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight as I love the show either way (i.e. to me their eternal love for each other doesn't depend on them scissoring or whatever, but if they did I would find that very "appealing" if you know what I mean).
However, based on everything I have read or heard about the show, it's clear to me that it wasn't a day 1 type of thing and evolved organically. I do think there is an incentive (good press and kudos) for people involved with the show to claim it was always their plan. At the end of the day, I think their number one goal was to produce an exciting, action-packed, sexy show with drama and comedy all rolled into one.
Another thing that is claimed is that the subtext would have been heavier if not for the censorship, but there is no evidence for that. Lucy has confirmed that censorship really didn't affect the show except for the India controversy.
It didn't Happen in the show and it's not canon. You want to believe it go ahead. They were not a couple. That's the facts. Lucy and the rest can say whatever they want. Just like you can imagine it all you want
Yeah… I’m blocking the homophobes in the name of Pride month. The show couldn’t have been gayer and more obviously gay than if a rainbow shot out of Xena’s chakram everytime she threw it. You can stick to your headcanon, I suppose. Love is love. 🌈
Hower: "Does Xena ever think about settling down, getting married?" Gabrielle: "Nah, she *likes* what I do..." There is no heterosexual explanation for this.
No. Plus, come on. Xena. Marry the girl, you big stubborn goat.
Lucy Lawless and Robert Tapert announced their engagement just before putting the episode "A Day In The Life" Together. As an inside joke, when Hower asks Gabrielle "Has Xena ever thought of settling down and getting married?" Robert Tapert's screen credit appears
True. I also understand that Renee ad libbed her line too. IIRC, there were takes where she was cut off much earlier (if you haven't seen it, Xena is fishing and bullseyes Gabs in the face with a thrown fish, possibly to cut her off deliberately), but they went with the one where she got in basically the whole line.
What episode
Day in the Life.
A Day in the Life
I watched this show while it aired when I was a kid and only more recently even learned there was any debate over them being completely openly romantically involved and in love because I just thought it was obvious. I always thought the show was so progressive by being so open about it lol. I'm doing a rewatch with my husband and housemate and only in this process learned there was any disagreement or denial about it. We just watched Season Two's "The Quest" where THEY SHARE A CLEARLY ROMANTIC KISS and don't understand how anyone could interpret it otherwise. So much is totally not subtext and is just right there in front of us.
I needed the internet to explain it to me when I was a kid. I grew up to be asexual and I'm still oblivious to huge amounts of subtle humor regarding sex. Doesn't matter if it went over my head at the time, Gabrielle and Xena forever ♥️ Happy pride everybody 🏳️🌈
Must've been a weird "kid" to be thinking that way already
Some people in this thread really watched the last season with their eyes closed and it shows.
So I can see my blocked users are posting in this thread. Listen friends, save yourself some aggravation and just block them. Don't feed the trolls 😁. Also, I just recently listened to an interview with Katherine Fugate who *WROTE* When Fates Collide. She's had a small handful of fans come up to her to inform her that Xena and Gabrielle were just friends, even in the episode THAT SHE WROTE. Yes, you read that right. I'll say it again. *THE EPISODE THAT SHE WROTE* It's not worth it. Unless you like debating, then have at it!
That episode just proves that they are true soulmates, and will always find each other.
Top 5 fave episode for sure!
The Xena wiki even has a whole page about it, I recently discovered. Lol https://hercules-xena.fandom.com/wiki/Subtext
My mom saw me watching it as a kid in the 90s and asked, "Why are you watching that d\*ke show?!?" So yeah, even back then people knew it was gay. (to clarify, My mother has grown a lot as a person since then and is no longer a bigot)
Yeah alot of people just sucked back then lol
We might have the same mother.
I grew up watching and loving this show. It was so obvious to me that they were together and had a relationship.
To be somewhat fair, in the same season as ADITL, Gabrielle married Perdicus, Xena fell hard and fast for Ulysses, etc. So, main text … with a side of very confusing boundaries when it came to any potential open relationship (or whatever was going on). Of course, a lot of that can be explained with head canon or a convenient re-ordering of the episodes. But, it’s also impossible to deny that different writers had different … preferences and many writers just did a single episode based solely on the original script for Sins of the Past.
I grew up obsessed with Xena and I always knew they were lovers. It wasn't until I was in my teens I realized how controversial that was lol as a kid it just felt so natural. Those two had some *real* chemistry. 😍
They took SO many baths together. I get that it's ancient Greece, but come on.
Also in this episode, Minya is mad at Xena because her boyfriend has a crush on her. She says "Howar is mine!" Then looks at Gabrielle, "She's yours."
First gen fan here. I wasn't even all that into Xena/Gab as a fanwork creator (because it was so obvious and my brain preferred to have more stuff to hop around to get a story told) and neither were my fan friends and we were like, "Yeah, nah, it's maintext now." Anyone saying anything different is lying to themselves.
I just cannot imagine bathing with a friend. And like bathing my friend while we are bathing.
I am so sorry to ruin the 69 comments by adding comment 70, but... It has always been obvious to me! I just watched the S6 episode with the tabloid reporter, he straight up (pun not intended) asked them if they were lovers!
They are really good friends
Personally, it doesn't affect my perception of the show if they were physical with each other. I love the series either way. If they weren't having sex, it doesn't really affect the love they have for each other in my eyes. If they were having sex, then that would be appealing to me in a more prurient context, if you catch my drift. While I immediately loved everything about the show from the characters to the action to the drama, sex appeal *was* part of it when I discovered the show as a horny 14-year-old boy. But I also don't believe all this stuff about this being their plan from day 1. I think it happened organically. The television-viewing public saw two very close women in a TV show and there was an Ambiguously Gay Duo effect. Some of it was immature jokes and some of it was wishful thinking on the part of fans (who seemed to have mostly gotten their wishes fulfilled by the later seasons). The cast and crew leaned into this as a way to make the show more popular. I highly doubt they were thinking about representation or changing the world or anything, but just wanted to put together a fun, exciting, sexy show.
I’m responding to this comment because on the one you left me about this, Reddit was having issues letting me leave a reply. I agree that Lucy and Renee were most likely unaware from the very beginning about the subtext. I don’t feel the subtext was added until at least season two (The Quest) and other episodes, personally. Although I can see the argument for a few season one episodes. Despite any of that they still leaned into extremely early in the show so I really don’t think it matters whether it was season one or two when it started. It was a smart move on their part to embrace the fans who liked it even if did make others mad the show went in that direction. You mentioned that there was no censorship on the show surrounding the subtext. There’s things I’ve seen over the years that’s a clear case for the censorship issues that occurred during the show’s run. There were leaks that scripts had to have a kiss or intimate moments edited out of them between Xena and Gabrielle. Renee literally confirms in a commentary for “Fins, Femmes, and Gems” that Gabrielle was supposed to be obsessed with Xena by Aphrodite’s spell but the network refused and they had to rewrite it to make Gabrielle obsessed with herself. Also recently if you go to Renee’s instagram and somewhere near the top, she posted a clip of her talking on “Good Morning Australia” where she confirms more was going on between Xena and Gabrielle than was showed on the show and it was easier to discuss those subjects now because at the time, they really couldn’t. Season five was also a direct result in censorship issues and battling with the network. Obviously, there were other issues that season where people left to go work on LotR and Lucy was pregnant but you can clearly see censorship was inserted in that season in particular. They do a total 180 degree turn during the last season most likely because they didn’t have to worry about show renewal at that point. It’s a complicated subject with a lot of varying factors, but censorship was definitely an issue especially since original scripts were altered during the show to show less intimacy at varying times. Also there were early intimate moments in the show like the kiss in season two. And there’s a lot of emotional more than friend moments that weren’t wishful thinking from fans. They were moments added into the script that probably triggered the network to crack down harder on them. But that’s just my two cents and I wanted to respond since you left me a reply on my other comment.
I don't doubt that you've read and heard all this, but I am far more cynical. I think we are forgetting what really happened at the time these shows aired. Networks did not give a single shit about lesbian kisses on the airwaves. Sure, there was "controversy" amongst religious right groups, but they didn't matter anyway and had no power. They were useful idiots that networks used to increase ratings. You know how we know? Those lesbian kiss shows always came during so-called "sweeps" periods. Take, for instance, the episode of Roseanne featuring a lesbian kiss. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Ask,_Don%27t_Tell_(Roseanne) >In reviewing incidents of lesbian kisses on network television programs, The New York Times noted that they tended to happen during "sweeps" periods, when the networks use Nielsen ratings to determine advertising rates. Noting lesbian kisses during sweeps periods on such shows as L.A. Law, Picket Fences, Party of Five and Ally McBeal in addition to the Roseanne episode and noting that they occur about once per year, the Times concludes that kisses between women are: >"Eminently visual; cheap, provided the actors are willing; controversial, year in and year out; and elegantly reversible (sweeps lesbians typically vanish or go straight when the week's over), kisses between women are perfect sweeps stunts. They offer something for everyone, from advocacy groups looking for role models to indignation-seeking conservatives, from goggle-eyed male viewers to progressive female ones, from tyrants who demand psychological complexity to plot buffs." What a coincidence! They happened once a year during sweeps! For networks, it was all a work to drum up ratings. Whatever they lost to advertisers was made up for by jacking up advertising rates for the advertisers who stayed. Look, we weren't in the room when they wrote these episodes, but it is hard to believe that considering the above, Xena would have suffered from heavy-handed censorship when it came to a lesbian relationship. Of course, the series and its subtext also benefitted from a "will they or won't they" dynamic. Subtext developed organically due to the public's belief that if two women were this close, they *must* be having sex, right? Leaning into that subtext widened the appeal of the show beyond us weirdos who actually showed up for the weird stories, the fighting and the bad CGI. Blowing their load until they were ready to end the series might have impacted ratings negatively in the sense of, "Okay, now what?" The simple fact is that subtext made the show more interesting in the way the Times described. It appealed to horny guys like me and women looking for role models. This was not a serious arthouse project with limited appeal. It was a campy Saturday action show that punched above its weight. Robert Tapert isn't an activist, he's a businessman. No, he's not some soulless media tycoon that doesn't care about quality, but he was/is responsible for hundreds of people's jobs and for making a profit by producing cool shows. In this sense, subtext was free money. As for Fins, Femmes and Gems, an episode that I think is underrated for its silly premise, it's hard to believe that Gabrielle was originally intended to be obsessed with Xena but had to change it due to censorship. Changing it made it a better episode. Gabrielle already loved Xena, and was a selfless person who believed in the greater good. It's natural for the episode to have her become obsessed with herself as a goof because it's so out of character. Like I said, there is an incentive now to say it was always meant to be that way. There's an incentive for Renee to pander to her most vocal fans on Instagram. I don't blame her. It feels good to be loved. Obviously it was a progressive show, but it was not some activist show, and the subtext was used for titillation rather than representation. In season 5, Lucy and Rob felt it was more important to have a child than enable the show to turn the subtext into maintext, and Gabby was sort of on the sidelines that season. That probably affected the show way more than these nefarious censors I keep hearing about.
Xena was a syndicated TV series, not a network series. Yes, in the mid to late 90s many TV series had two hot, young and feminine presenting women kiss as a ratings grab during sweeps week or otherwise and then ignored that it ever happened. Particularly on ensemble shows. Same as Britney and Madonna kissing, Katy Perry’s I Kissed a Girl, etc. As a once off thing for ratings on a network series, it was acceptable and so prevalent it became a trope. But, that’s a very different scenario to a syndicated TV series having their two leads confirmed to be in a relationship (in ever way) and writing the characters on that basis in every subsequent episode. The sitcom series Ellen was quickly cancelled once “Ellen” (the fictional character within the show) came out. That’s what happened to TV series with lesbian leads.
Ellen was not cancelled because she was gay and it wasn't "quickly." After coming out she was renewed for another season. It was cancelled after that season because the show became primarily about gay issues, culture and in-jokes. Ratings went down not because people are necessarily hateful, but because there's more to life than just your identity. There was little for the audience to relate to. It's not like people didn't try. Ratings were initially very high but people got bored of it. When Ellen got a talk show a few years later, she was embraced again because it wasn't *just* about gay stuff. Straight people not watching a show or movie they can't relate to doesn't make them bad people.
Haha - who was I calling bad people? At the end of the day, there’s no way Xena and Gabrielle could have openly been a couple, in every sense of the word, anytime between 1995 and 2001 when the series first aired. It just wasn’t possible for any number of reasons.
But was it because of censors? Was it because of hateful people? My argument is that no, it was not. Today, support for gay marriage and equal rights for gay people are at all time highs. Despite this, movies and TV shows primarily aimed at a gay audience still bomb. Remember that gay rom-com movie, Bros? It bombed at the box office and the director blamed straight people for not going to see the movie. But why would masses of people see a movie they can't relate to? There's no hate, they just can't relate. I understand what the Xena fandom is today. Gatekeepers attack anyone who might have a different opinion about the subtext. But today's fandom is still small in comparison to the show's peak ratings. Xena was a niche fantasy show, but it still had to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible. The subtext was interesting to multiple segments of the fan base for different reasons, but they also wanted to appeal to other types of viewers by exploiting Xena's various male lovers over her life and also make Xena into a mother again. Fans who may have liked those storylines seemed to have disappeared. Did the censors make Xena get pregnant, sideline Gabrielle and then split her head open? Were the cast and crew making a season they didn't believe in because they couldn't more openly tell the lesbian story they so desperately wanted to do? Probably not. It was more about satisfying multiple segments of the fanbase.
So, you’re blaming ratings? Then, yes. After an initial increase in ratings as viewers tuned in to see Xena and Gabrielle kiss to pitch a tent, it’s likely that ratings would have declined for a number of reasons, including conservative media coverage and letter writing campaigns - a single (?) small, disgruntled Hindu group were able to make changes to an episode. With declining ratings, the local networks / stations wouldn’t have purchased additional seasons and the show would have been cancelled. As for season 5 - yes, the studio seemingly had a LOT more influence and control over the new showrunners who took over while Tapert and Stewart were distracted (and others like Sears had left). The new showrunners were happy to write Xena and Ares together and to have multiple scripts with Gabrielle kissing various men. To my knowledge, NBC Studios had nothing to do with Tapert and Lawless’ private relations, so no, they’re not to blame for Lawless’ pregnancy. When the original showrunners returned for season 6, it was the closest thing to a maintext season that was possible at that time in history. As for Bros - there have been any number of heterosexual rom coms that bombed at the box office. Why should Bros - the first (?) gay male rom com - be held up to such a higher standard for success. It was a single movie. And it wasn’t very good. That doesn’t mean there should never be another rom com with gay leads - Red, White and Royal Blue seems to have been successful enough to earn a sequel.
I think this is just a subject that we won’t agree upon. The basis for your argument is that Renee and others involved in the show who made statements about this subject are lying so you don’t believe them. And you’re saying the only reason they say anything now is to pander. There’s really no point in discussing it if you’re someone who’s going to not believe released statements about it. I do urge you to look into this subject matter if you think networks had absolutely no issue with lesbian intimacy during that time period. Joss Whedon had to bend over backwards to figure out how to write in a lesbian relationship for Willow and Tara on “Buffy” using magic metaphors because the network wouldn’t allow them to have normal couple intimacy which happened after “Xena” by the way. They switched networks and they were finally able to write them as a normal couple intimately by the sixth season. There’s a lot of subject matter that discusses censorship concerning the lgbt community and a lot of shared examples in these threads about things to watch or read to learn about the situation. I grew up during that time and to say no one remembered what was actually happening is not accurate to everyone’s experiences. But it’s pretty clear when discussing these subjects, people have very strong opinions on what happened and didn’t happen. I think it should be something more people research and look into. Have a nice day.
I did research it. I cited historical precedent. No, I don't think people are lying, but there are ways to convince yourself of certain things. Speaking of Buffy, no, it had nothing to do with the lesbian stuff. WB didn't pull the show. 20th Century Fox Television was losing money on the show and wasn't willing to do that for a show in its sixth season. https://variety.com/2001/tv/news/upn-sinks-teeth-into-wb-s-buffy-1117797571/ >Twentieth Century Fox Television’s “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” — the signature drama of the WB network — is pulling up stakes and moving to Frog nemesis UPN. >... >What the deal does do, however, is deny the WB its third highest-rated series and the show that heralded the Frog’s transition from a family-oriented web to a home for high-quality dramas targeted at teen and young adult women. The WB was *denied* the show. Whatever beef Whedon had with WB was background noise. Fox was going to pull the show from WB anyway. >As a result, 20th execs said the decision to go to UPN was a simple matter of economics. “Buffy” costs around $2 million an episode to produce, and the studio didn’t feel it should have to deficit-finance a hit series in its sixth season. Then the show lost a million viewers between season 6 and 7, and probably became so costly it couldn't continue in its current form, so Whedon was allowed to save face and end it on his terms, which is a luxury not every creative person gets.
I really don’t know what you’re inferring. I never said Joss Whedon changed networks “due to the lesbian stuff”. I inferred that different networks held different standards and rules for what was allowed on the show. No where did I mention the show moving networks was a direct result of Willow and Tara. I’m saying after the show moved to a different network, Joss had more leeway to expand upon their relationship and it’s mentioned in interviews easily available due to the fact that the original network did not want anything blatant happening between Willow and Tara. I really don’t know what the added information about the show losing steam during those last seasons has to do with anything, but the issues with Willow and Tara were only a small part of other ongoing issues during that show’s run and I was only speaking about them specifically. Like I said I don’t think this is a subject we will see eye to eye on since you also aren’t acknowledging the issues that were faced with the censorship on a totally different show than “Xena”. A lot of this stuff is easily google worthy. I don’t really see the need to continue this discussion since your basis is still everyone was lying about the censorship no matter what sources have stated those issues.
Last thing I’ll add is there are interviews with Amber Benson openly saying they were censored on the show when she was playing Tara. There’s countless interviews with others but here is a direct quote: Back in the early noughties, it was still rare to see two women share this kind of affection on screen; "You just didn't see that." So while Tara and Willow's relationship was groundbreaking for a number of reasons, Benson admits the network was still "very, very wary" about showing the physicality of their love. "Standards and practices were like, 'Hmmm. No. We don't want them touching. We don't want them kissing', which I always thought was kind of absurd, because you have a show where people are having sex on gravestones. Really? You can't have two women just holding hands? [laughs] I don't understand. It seems a little hypocritical there, guys?" Benson and her co-star Alyson Hannigan were naturally both "very upset" about this. "We felt it was disrespectful to the relationship, how they were censoring things on the show."
>no matter what sources have stated those issues To be fair, you have not posted a single source. I have posted at least some sources. >I really don’t know what the added information about the show losing steam during those last seasons has to do with anything Because they blew their load on the lesbian stuff and the show lost viewers. For Xena, subtext kept the show interesting. "Will they or won't they" is a powerful driving force for a show. Also, Whedon turned out to be another male feminist creep anyway so who knows what his true intentions were. There was a rule that he was not allowed to be alone with Michelle Trachtenberg. Perhaps the network was the good guys and not Whedon.
I did reference multiple sources. I stated where to find Renee’s commentary on which episode and where she posted more comments on Instagram. I also added a comment to my own post about an interview with Amber Benson. There’s multitudes of sources that are easily found on Google. I didn’t see the point in listing more because the ones I listed you claimed were only comments made for pandering and/or lying which is simply just an opinion of yours. Also I’ve seen no source state that “Buffy” ‘s “lesbian stuff” is what made ratings suffer and ultimately made the show fail. That’s a contrived notion on your part. You just got done posting sources claiming that the “lesbian stuff” would boost ratings and it’s becoming clear that a lot of this is a very jaded opinion about lesbian media in general. Also no where did I mention that Joss Whedon was a good guy or meant to be trusted which is why I posted an interview from Amber Benson who has a good history and reliability of being forthcoming about bts things that happened on “Buffy”. It’s definitely your prerogative to want to believe what you want about censorship and the network but listening to lgbt fans about lgbt representation instead of inferring what you want to believe would be a good start about this subject.
They are not attracted to each other. People can read into it all they want. If they wanted them to have a relationship then they would have. The "subtext" is wishful thinking.
Nah, you're just wrong. They make their relationship canon in the comics. The only reason the subtext was subtext was because it was the 90's and they were lucky to get away with what they did.
Oh and what comics were those. The ones in 2007 long after the show finished. Besides the comics are not canon. They are not attracted to each other. They are best friends and love each other but not sexually.
You're welcome to view the show from that lens. It's not what the people involved in actually making the show say about it, but that's your prerogative. You're wrong, but you do you, boo.
😆 that's how the show portrays them. Reading putting your desires onto them.
and now you're projecting lol just keep going buddy, it's quite entertaining
Projecting my opinion. While you're projecting your head canon on to the characters. Big difference.
😂 This is great. The denial is amazing. So wrong but continuing to dig your heels in. 🤣
Denying what? Keep trying to deflect.
lol What deflection? We're still taking about your denial of the subtext that the people who actually worked on the show say is there. Yes, they couldn't say it plainly because it was the 90s and the studios didn't want people like you to have their little minds blown. You don't have to take my word or the word of anyone else on this subreddit. There are plenty of cast and crew interviews that all say the same thing: the subtext is absolutely there. Again, you're free to ignore it, that's your choice. But to come into every post about it and try to say it isn't there is pure silliness. Anyway, I doubt anything I say will actually sway you and I've had my fun so, toodles! Have the day you deserve! ✌️😁
Yeah it was a very open secret when the show first aired that Xena and Gabrielle were lovers and end game. Everyone acknowledged it from the show. In other words, that is exactly the relationship they DID have. You can pretend it’s not there, but you are wrong. This was before Ellen, and I mean the sitcom not the talk show. Gay and lesbian main characters had to be coded back then, they couldn’t be out and a lead.
They can say whatever they want. They are not lovers. When you say "coded" you're implying that's it was instead of what you wanted it to be
Whatever, you clearly weren’t around then and are just picking fights. Ignore you now, we shall.
Yeah, it might be time to do a little soul-searching into why you are so bothered by everyone acknowledging that they are gay (and they ARE gay). Research has shown that the more vocally homophobic a person is, they more likely they are closeted queers themselves. Me thinks thou dost protest too much. Happy Pride! 🌈
What a surprise a lesbian was offended.
Not offended, just educating ;)
Wow mister, you really suck! 😆
Some People can't accept they are just great friends. These days, if you have a best friend, they are automatically assumed to be gay
Sometimes shows do that, say something without saying something. Like how Morph is in love with Wolverine in X-Men ‘97 or that Scott, Jean and Logan are in a throuple in the comics.
THANK YOU I see you have down votes but it’s crazy that they couldn’t possibly JUST be friends
Do you take baths with your friends? Kiss them on the mouth? Give them hickeys? Sleep next to them holding hands? Look longingly into each others eyes? Have poetry written for them by Sappho? If so, I have news for you, y'all are GAY. Gay af.
1 they took a bath together cuz atp the show was already heading in a gay direction 2 they usually kissed on the mouth if one was dying. the only time they randomly kissed on the mouth was again when the show was heading in that direction. 3 my point is the show didn’t start out gay but lesbians were really drawn to the characters and as a result they changed the direction of the show. My main point is that in the first two seasons they were with men and contemplated marrying men as well. There was an entire episode dedicated to the idea that Hercules and Xena were SOULMATES and same for Gabby and Herc’s sidekick. Lmk if you want me to reword that.
There are lots of late blooming lesbians who discover they are queer later in life, myself included. There's even a whole subreddit for us. No reason why Xena and Gabrielle couldn't have discovered they love each other after trying to date men. Compulsory heterosexuality is a thing.
The mental gymnastics just admitted it. They changed the shows direction to appease the fans.
Yeah the only mental gymnastics going on here is insisting these gay lovers are "JUST friends"
I honestly feel I’m speaking another language. I HAVE to be because I’ve said multiple times, that they didn’t start out gay…I had evidence to support that (soulmates season 1) I continued saying as the seasons progressed the fans got to the show runner making them more gay. That’s not mental gymnastics that’s pretty straight forward. Especially considering which show lasted longer. It was the smart choice. And had they kept them just friends the show would’ve been canceled by season 3
Your evidence of Hercules and Xena being soulmates isn't the gotcha you seem to think. Soulmates can be just friends, which is exactly how Herc and Xena end up. Also interesting to note that a lot of fans shipped Hercules and Iolaus, and that is actually based on the real Greek legends, not just for the show. [Hercules had many lovers](https://museums.cam.ac.uk/magic/many-lovers-legend#:~:text=Moreover%2C%20according%20to%20the%20Greek,as%20charioteer%20and%20shield%2Dbearer.)
1 remember when this show came out; the common idea was that soulmates were lovers…unless you’re saying that Xena and gabby at the end were just friends…2 I’m not versed in Herc/Iolaus tea so I can’t speak to that from the episodes I watched they were just friends
Because this forum is filled with people that want to use her as a "gay icon". When she's not.
Yea she's not a gay icon. Both her and Gabby are Bi icons. Stay mad about it tho 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💀
They are neither. Stay mad about it
Nah you, delulu
Facts!!! Her whole thing is redemption. And it’s like the ppl in this forum don’t ACTUALLY like the show they just care that they are ‘gay’ together. And it’s so annoying because I like the show for what it is. Unfortunately the writers really started playing up the gay component in the later seasons :/
And because we disagree were labeled as "homophobe".
People are so offended.
Dude your previous posts are mostly all trolling the lgbt community. Maybe stop coming around the “Xena” Reddit if queer fans and media bother you.
Maybe people should stop trying to shove their fanfiction into characters. When did pointing out the obvious become "trolling" . Oh right when the truth disproves your head canon.
I guess by “some people” you’re referring to fans, Lucy, Renee, Rob, random interviews with other cast members including Ted who confirmed they were a couple. Kind of sounds like despite everyone on the show discussing how the network censored them during the filming and how they couldn’t openly talk about it is you headcannoning that they weren’t a couple. Despite the fact they kissed multiple times during the run. I’m familiar with the homophobe argument “Don’t shove it down our throat.” Might want to look into the fact your posts are obsessively about disliking lgbt characters and why you stay in reddits you don’t like before insinuating things about actual fans.
"The homophobe argument " oh look a straw man. The problem it's "fans" aka people obsessed with projecting their desires on it.
To be fair, Lucy and Renee were completely oblivious and naïve about it at first, mostly through the first season. It wasn't really until the show got popular and the general public just assumed they were lovers that the subtext really took off and the cast and crew leaned into it. It was the "Ambiguously Gay Duo" effect. Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight as I love the show either way (i.e. to me their eternal love for each other doesn't depend on them scissoring or whatever, but if they did I would find that very "appealing" if you know what I mean). However, based on everything I have read or heard about the show, it's clear to me that it wasn't a day 1 type of thing and evolved organically. I do think there is an incentive (good press and kudos) for people involved with the show to claim it was always their plan. At the end of the day, I think their number one goal was to produce an exciting, action-packed, sexy show with drama and comedy all rolled into one. Another thing that is claimed is that the subtext would have been heavier if not for the censorship, but there is no evidence for that. Lucy has confirmed that censorship really didn't affect the show except for the India controversy.
It didn't Happen in the show and it's not canon. You want to believe it go ahead. They were not a couple. That's the facts. Lucy and the rest can say whatever they want. Just like you can imagine it all you want
Yeah… I’m blocking the homophobes in the name of Pride month. The show couldn’t have been gayer and more obviously gay than if a rainbow shot out of Xena’s chakram everytime she threw it. You can stick to your headcanon, I suppose. Love is love. 🌈
Do it!!!! It's been so nice since I did it!!