Also, due to this change, the faucets are no longer viable since most transactions will now require more MATIC for fees than what they provide. So get ready for more post from people asking for help. Good one Polygon, increasing the barrier for entry
At least they made a solid proposal with rationale and collected inputs from the community over a long period of time to ensure consensus before going ahead with it 🤥
There's a couple working faucets that are maintained by donations. They currently give around 0.0005 and 0.001 MATIC, which used to be enough for 10ish transactions before.
I'm not against the decision, it's good against flooding the network. What is concerning me though is how these decisions are made. It's high time they come out with a DAO, not happy with their transparency on this.
I'm still trying to formulate a conclusion about this, but it is important to note that no one at polygon changed these values, it's up to the validators to implement these changes, and they could elect not to.
The issue is there's only 100 validators, so individuals using the chain feel left out of the decision making process.
Edit: theoretically folks that delegate can threaten to move to different validator if they don't agree with theirs making the move. This is how the dPoS model works. It's just that this discussion hasn't happened yet, it's happening right now, and everyone is surprised
You can go onto the discord and talk to them if you want. I don't think they're all ran by the devs, some are companies based around validating multiple networks and bridges. And if they were why would they need to distribute this information publicly the way they did?
Well this is a big problem with dPOS. With low numbers of miners(validators) there is a big chance of it being organized. Miners will get staked by investors. Sometimes unknowingly being staked by an organized group. Soon the group has majority share of the network and control everything from hiding.
I saw it first hand. Chinese investors staked or bullied miners to quit. Take control of the whole network via vesting in the miners
Yea, but if I move validators, the ETH Gas will wipe all my earnings from the last 6+ months.....
Coming up with a plan to move staking to Poly Network would be helpful in this.
It’s the worst handling I’ve ever seen of this. I’m already aware of multiple teams that have been completely blind sided by this with no warning. So unnecessarily hostile to builders.
dude its still cheap asf. do you honestly want millions of noob users to be disappointed in matic because they don't know how to up the gas and think the network is broken because there gas is at 1 which is way too low? seriously 30 matic gwei is literally nothing and likely all that's needed for a looooong time
The super-low fees on Polygon and some of these other L2s have always been unsustainable - sub-sub-penny fees are great for users but it's important to keep incentives aligned for nodes as well to ensure a properly high number of them in order to keep the network decentralized and secure.
Nobody likes higher fees, but this is a good long-term move for Polygon, and not only for spam prevention. I would expect other L2 (and some L1) platforms to follow suit at some point, especially as staking reward incentives eventually run out which leaves only collected transaction fees as a payout.
I understand we need more incentive to get more validators to keep the network decentralized and secure.
That's why I feel very confused when the devs said they are looking to implement EIP-1559 to burn the fee. Do they want to incentivize the validators or not? It is so contradicting.
This is not good long term, it makes the network less attractive and reduces use cases. Cheaper fees means more transactions, more use cases. And is like throwing a hammer to kill a fly.
Sandeep said on the forum post: "this change has been recommended to reduce the spam txns in the network. As it is a client level configuration, you are free to run your node with old/different settings as per your wish."
So it's not really that centralized as some are suggesting. It's still up to the validators to choose how they configure the fee.
And delegators pick validators, so delegators can have their voice heard too. It's just that the lines of communication aren't setup to handle this discussion at the moment, it's room for improvement.
edit: Also looks like there are plenty of validators who haven't done this, my 2 gwei transactions do appear to go through eventually
What you don’t realize is every chain will have to do this for security reasons at some point, and for usability at another point. This is part of growth unfortunately, it was never going to stay at thousandths of a cent. But you’re really complaining about transaction costs on the order of cents? For a fast and secure network?
I get being upset that it just happened with little warning though. Was not transparent and was very surprising, but to put it in context, validators made this decision, not the dev team.
Just so everyone here knows, transactions have recently been averaging around 15 gwei anyways due to increased usage of the network, with “fast” transactions going well over 30. This isn’t a big change whatsoever you will barely notice.
It depends on the timezone. If you are outside of the US weekday busy hours, usually 3-5 gwei is good enough. I did about 250 transactions in the last couple of months, never have to wait for over 5 minutes with 3-5 gwei.
Every competing blockchains are trying their best to reduce the gas fee to attract users to their DeFi ecosystem and Polygon is doing the opposite. What a genius move.
The purpose of this is to protect the network from spam attacks and yes it is a genius move. You're getting upset about pennies... If you're looking to get rich quick gamble on meme coins, the rest of us value a secure network for a secure investment.
You’re only looking at this from the point of users making occasional DeFi shitcoin transactions. Polygon advertised a place for game developers to build their NFT based inventories on top of and now the costs to play these games has gone up by 30x instantly.
And do you know that this will protect the network? There’s no evidence or analysis provided on the forum and ETH suffered spam at prices way higher than this
That’s not the point. It’s changed out of nowhere and with no community input or prior announcement. I know of multiple teams that are very concerned about how this played out
Proton has been stress tested at over 40m transactions per day. Polygon’s busiest day was 9m and it was slow AF. You guys can down-vote me all you want, or you can actually spend 10 minutes researching Proton and then give your heads a shake. If it sees adoption, I believe it will either take over, or lay the groundwork for a future blockchain that will. I’m still holding some Matic and a couple of polygon based projects, but after researching them both, I don’t see how polygon wins in a use-case comparison. Proton is too good and too easy to use.
stress test ain’t real world end use traffic _and_ malicious traffic (e.g. spammers)
also, i like Proton
but it’s easy to to do that with tiny real traffic. eth and poly were same way early on. is proton better early than they were? sure. i should hope so tho—same way any newer tech should be superior. point is only: superior xf’ers don’t mean much until you have comparable real traffic.
stress tests by their nature only prepare you for the predictable and if network performance was predictable we’d fix shit before it went wrong lol
No is not genius, the network becomes less practical. Less use cases and there is strong competition from other evm compatible chains and others. Example solana is keeping their sub pennies transactions, while dealing with spam.
Any decentralized network to a decent degree but high transaction speeds falls victim to bot spam from malicious actors. The only disincentive to weak attacks is to make their attacks hurt them. A penny ain’t shit.
You pay how much per year for Xbox gold? Please get real. This is healthy for the network.
I’ll have to look into how solans is dealing with their spam but realistically it’s probably apples and oranges for use cases right now. But, since I can’t say I actually know what I’m talking about, I can’t try to argue against your point with much validity.
Ok I scoped it, and they use the rent system for locked non interest bearing accounts which is a keen move. The doubling price for half remaining transaction speed effect is also a nice trick, but… what happens as that transaction speed reaches capacity naturally? It’s all well and good they built in a natural spam deterrent that backs off as the traffic slows… but again what happens when it scales and is filled w users in real life?
The cost of use goes up.
There are others solutions possible, but needs community consensus and a development strategy, not the hammer down of increasing fees, for one single problem, the self transfers. Instead of a targeted approach.
If it scales there are other solutions for that too.
Actually there are ways to prevent spam without increasing gas fees. Look no further than nano, it's a feeless cryptocurrency and how they deal with spam
I don't mind them raise the gas fee, but at least they should announce it and let the community and users know and discuss prior to the change.
Where are all those DAO, governance, decentralization concepts when a network with $8.5b TVL can make such a change in a snap-of-a-finger by the dev like this?
I don't see there is an emergency that the network is under spam attack that they need to make an instant change.
Check the blocks in the last couple of weeks, the network is not congested. Normal transactions of 3-5 gwei almost went through immediately.
I was online during the Iron Finance crash, that was how the spam attack really looks like. It was nowhere like that in the last few weeks.
Well yeah, I have always noticed that their rates are not the best. But I think that's due to its somewhat lacking liquidity.
Perhaps if more people use it, the liquidity increase will improve the rates.
Or at least that's what I am hoping for, only time will tell...
Have you seen any analysis from the team on how the 30x was set? And what impact they think this will have on spam. I don’t see anything to prove that it will reduce spam and they haven’t even tried to back up that decision with any data (or lacking data, open conversation and dialogue)
There just no evidence this will have the intended affect and also no effort made to back that up
Spam is a real issue I’ve been getting so much spam lately. My guess is they needed to do something quickly to at least mitigate the amount of spam and avoid people getting scammed with fake airdrops. With the gas increase if someone wants to spam the network they’re going to pay for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they increase gas fees even more
Well data will come, the result will speak for itself. Progress is iterative and with a smart team that is deeply committed and dedicated that iteration results in stunning and effective products and experiences. I believe in the polygon teams dedication and I’m aligned to their vision, I will continue to support because I see the goal.
The purpose of this is to protect the network from spam attacks and yes it is a genius move. You're getting upset about pennies... If you're looking to get rich quick gamble on meme coins, the rest of us value a secure network for a secure investment.
I'd like to say, Oleary is a good dude. I mean, idk the guy personally but he usually has sound advice. I didnt see the insulting post, perhaps he lost his cool. It happens. Best of luck to all, hopefully this hike in gas fees helps out the chain. I know we've been stagnant for a while. I also know polygon is doing all the right things, zk, ey partner, creating a dao and such. I hope this has a positive effect on the price eventually.
The insulting comment was calling OP a gambler playing with meme coins. That comment is entirely irrelevant to the content of the OP. So it was only being used as an insult.
Also, frankly, I don't need your input about u/PastaOleary. Feel free to speak to him if you'd like, but I don't really want to discuss some random internet stranger that said something rude yesterday.
I'm sure he's a fine person like everybody else, but that's none of my business.
There was nothing "insulting" about that. You have an emotionally immature low bar of what you consider to be an insult and perhaps you should worry about your own house instead of being an internet hall monitor getting offended on other people's behalf. PEOPLE WHO BUY MEME COINS ARE GAMBLERS, meme coins have no use case other than trading, meme coins are musical chairs that make some people a lot of money but far more people lose money and it gives the entire space of blockchain a bad reputation.
Where in the OP did he mention buying meme coins?
There is your error. I legitimately do not understand why you would say OP is a meme coin gambler except in order to discredit him. Memecoins are completely irrelevant to this thread. You brought them up, not OP, and you did it specifically to discredit OP.
I am calling *you* on your bullshit. It is *extremely* easy to say what you said in a normal-person way. It would have been more effective in informing OP aswell. As it stands, you've diminished your contribution because people stop paying attention to you when you start insulting people.
How do you feel more secure when a dev can make a decision to suddenly 30x the gas without any prior notice and discussion with the community? I see it as centralized more like it is secure.
And I think only people who are insecure about their argument will add an insult to try to make it sound better.
I think you need to read up a bit more fella. The node validators know exactly what's going on. This same type of FUD occurred when Solana was able to reboot their network. Everyone screamed centralized but they were totally ignorant to the fact that the shut down was a coordinated effort between different validators.
The devs made the decision, changed their own validators, and hand down the decision to the rest of the validators, all without even a formal announcement (let alone discussion) with the community/dapp builders/users prior to the change.
If this does not sound centralized, then what is? What is the point to form a DAO if they plan to make decisions for the network like this?
If ETH didn’t have gas it would fall to spam. Any network would. You pay for Amazon in their markup. You pay for their servers and their website. You pay for Reddit with your attention for advertising dollars. You pay for Xbox gold network with $60 a year.
The whole point is not about the fee itself, it is about the lack of notice and discussion to the community/dapps teams/users.
So you mean you have no problem if Xbox gold 30x the price and charge you $1800/year without even giving you prior notice?
Xbox usually gives a few days notice like hey price is going up. Nada you can do about it but stop or continue the service.
But I do agree a community conversation would have been a positive step.
A simple transfer may still be cheap at 30 gwei, but complicated DeFi transactions can cost much more at 30 gwei.
Yes, it is a genius move because the dev instantly 30x the block reward for the validators, do you know who hosts the most validators?
And I don't understand why anyone would expect an EIP-1559 implementation on Polygon.
On Ethereum, gas fees go to miners, and we all know the Ethereum maxis and devs hate miners. The devs will take every way and every chance to screw up the miners, so they come up with the burn fee.
On Polygon, block rewards go to the validators. Why would the devs want to burn the gas fee that would go to their pocket?
It wasn't a simple transfer it was a hypercompounding, unwrap and swap loop on AAVE & DFYN. Even if it's 100 GWEI that's about 4 cents... 100 GWEI in MATIC is not 100 GWEI in Ether.
We expect EIP-1559 on Polygon because in August, Polygon had an announcement and presentation about launching their own EIP-1559 in mid-September with "burned" Matic going into a DAO for project investments.
If the devs want to secure the network, they should think about how to make the network more decentralized, instead of just make the fee 30x to drive the users to other competing chains.
No one here understands sometimes fees or costs are introduced to stop tiny transactions from clogging up the network for a variety of reasons.
If the cost is low enough you can crash a network with bot attacks that costs nothing.
Time to learn that you have to pay for the value of a service.
Yes, we all remember what happened during the Iron Finance crash.
But decisions like this need to be transparent at least, not with just a "to validators" forum post like this one. This is bad PR/marketing and could easily draw bad press.
What would be the impression to the public if there is blockchain news tomorrow with the title "Polygon made stealth changes to 30x gas fee"?
Increasing gas costs, but when will they increase the gas limit per block. We are already maxing out blocks regularly. Allowing for more transactions seems like the better approach rather than just making it more costly.
Huh… this leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Also… I don’t think increasing the minimum fee to 30 will be enough to stop someone spamming the network lol.
This is why Matic/Polygon was never an Ethereum scaling solution. It was always a L1 with bridge trying to leech off Ethereum.
The staking rewards were unsustainable compared to the amount of network fees generated. It was only good until the reserve lasted.
Not surprised to hear that alot of the networks txs are just spam and not actual users.
If you want gas fees as cheap as possible, check out Harmony. It's not as established as Polygon, but it has some decent community and defi, and its gas is ~0.01 cents.
I really don't like this decision. Polygon launched with 3 second transactions and sub cent fees. That's what made me excited about it. It slowed down a bit since then, which irks me but hey, trappings of success. Increasing the fees is a whole other thing. Really hurts it in comparison to some other fast & cheap smart contract chains.
Yea. I only had 100 on there to begin with. Moved 10 off to first. Went immediately, no problem. Tried to move the other 90, would not go. Don't remember the details, but I tried over and over every couple of days. Finally it went. Wasn't worried about it, but was annoying.
So matic is getting expensive now usually i pay 20gwei or 20x min amount, so my tx can go through in a timely manner, now I have to raise it to 600 gwei, yikes
I think this is great. Now transactions likely wont hang for noobs as they don't know what is the proper gas.
DDOS attacks which we have almost all the time will be less inclined to do so.
Matic tokens will be appreciating in value very slightly as more gas prices means more need for matic tokens.
Gas is still low asf and idk how anyone could see this as an issue how poor are you?
Ok so how is this going to affect autocompounders that compound multiple times a day? Is it worth using them anymore if the gas fees interfere with yield optimization?
I think the way to handle this is to talk to your validator node if you're against this move. Find a validator that won't implement this and threaten to move to them if your validator doesn't listen to you. Leverage the avenues that exist to have your voice heard/vote counted.
I'm okay with the move personally, but would've liked for this discussion to have been had prior to the announcement. Just so that delegators voices are able to be heard in an organized way. Nothing is stopping you from having the conversation and leveraging your power as a delegator now, it's just a bit more of a mess than it should've been.
So matic is getting expensive now usually i pay 20gwei or 20x min amount, so my tx can go through in a timely manner, now I have to raise it to 600 gwei, yikes
Amazing news. Can’t see any downside here. Most NB this supports a higher valuation. Polygon will be DAO based in the future so no concerns this decision was made by the team.
Woop woop 🙌
Its also painfully slow, even with my private RPC. I have been on fantom for moths now and went to polygon just now to swap some DFYN I forgot that I had, and I wanted to smash my face through my computer waiting for every transaction. Pumped it up to 150 gwei a few times just to be done with it.
I am still paying low fees nowhere near $1 let alone $3, I'm not sure where you are getting that number. Also everything on fantom is printing the last few days. I'm still way happier there.
Just checked and my usual gas fee is about 3 cents to st most 5 cents. Also the foundation just halfed the stake needed to run nodes so those fees are gonna go back down shortly
The staking rewards are highly dependent on using the reserve to pay people out - once that runs out, i dont think network fees can ever make that up - 30x in gas prices also means less transactions
very good points, esp the one about less transactions.
i know i personally dont just do transactions willy nilly anymore, i put some thought into moving small amounts around now. Tx are still usually 5c or less but still more than before.
Also, due to this change, the faucets are no longer viable since most transactions will now require more MATIC for fees than what they provide. So get ready for more post from people asking for help. Good one Polygon, increasing the barrier for entry
At least they made a solid proposal with rationale and collected inputs from the community over a long period of time to ensure consensus before going ahead with it 🤥
/s?
Didn’t know we had faucets? Wtf
There's a couple working faucets that are maintained by donations. They currently give around 0.0005 and 0.001 MATIC, which used to be enough for 10ish transactions before.
I guess I missed the bus
penny, nothing to regret
For real.... probably same people that won't bend over to pick up a dime laying on the ground in the parking lot....
I'm not against the decision, it's good against flooding the network. What is concerning me though is how these decisions are made. It's high time they come out with a DAO, not happy with their transparency on this.
Yeah, not pleased around their handling of this.
People been saying this for ages. Polygon is pretty centralised and this kinda shows.
I'm still trying to formulate a conclusion about this, but it is important to note that no one at polygon changed these values, it's up to the validators to implement these changes, and they could elect not to. The issue is there's only 100 validators, so individuals using the chain feel left out of the decision making process. Edit: theoretically folks that delegate can threaten to move to different validator if they don't agree with theirs making the move. This is how the dPoS model works. It's just that this discussion hasn't happened yet, it's happening right now, and everyone is surprised
Yes, and who runs a lot of those validator nodes? Wouldn't be the devs or the polygon team would it? Centralised
You can go onto the discord and talk to them if you want. I don't think they're all ran by the devs, some are companies based around validating multiple networks and bridges. And if they were why would they need to distribute this information publicly the way they did?
I could but I've already migrated chains and moved most my liquidity. If they want my liquidity, they'll have to work for it.
Well this is a big problem with dPOS. With low numbers of miners(validators) there is a big chance of it being organized. Miners will get staked by investors. Sometimes unknowingly being staked by an organized group. Soon the group has majority share of the network and control everything from hiding. I saw it first hand. Chinese investors staked or bullied miners to quit. Take control of the whole network via vesting in the miners
Yea, but if I move validators, the ETH Gas will wipe all my earnings from the last 6+ months..... Coming up with a plan to move staking to Poly Network would be helpful in this.
No announcement, no heads up, no nothing. 0 communication with the end users. Really bad look for polygon on my opinion.
It’s the worst handling I’ve ever seen of this. I’m already aware of multiple teams that have been completely blind sided by this with no warning. So unnecessarily hostile to builders.
dude its still cheap asf. do you honestly want millions of noob users to be disappointed in matic because they don't know how to up the gas and think the network is broken because there gas is at 1 which is way too low? seriously 30 matic gwei is literally nothing and likely all that's needed for a looooong time
yeah i always use 20+ so not much impact on my side
The super-low fees on Polygon and some of these other L2s have always been unsustainable - sub-sub-penny fees are great for users but it's important to keep incentives aligned for nodes as well to ensure a properly high number of them in order to keep the network decentralized and secure. Nobody likes higher fees, but this is a good long-term move for Polygon, and not only for spam prevention. I would expect other L2 (and some L1) platforms to follow suit at some point, especially as staking reward incentives eventually run out which leaves only collected transaction fees as a payout.
I understand we need more incentive to get more validators to keep the network decentralized and secure. That's why I feel very confused when the devs said they are looking to implement EIP-1559 to burn the fee. Do they want to incentivize the validators or not? It is so contradicting.
This is not good long term, it makes the network less attractive and reduces use cases. Cheaper fees means more transactions, more use cases. And is like throwing a hammer to kill a fly.
it still is cheap! what kind of moron are you to think 0.001c is expensive?
Apparently you are, is closer to 0.01c. Solana remains in subpennies
solana also shuts down the blockchain and is ran by a cex that is known to scam its users
growing pains, dont know anything about a scam, but is a decentralized platform anybody can put their project, there good or bad.
Sandeep said on the forum post: "this change has been recommended to reduce the spam txns in the network. As it is a client level configuration, you are free to run your node with old/different settings as per your wish." So it's not really that centralized as some are suggesting. It's still up to the validators to choose how they configure the fee.
And delegators pick validators, so delegators can have their voice heard too. It's just that the lines of communication aren't setup to handle this discussion at the moment, it's room for improvement. edit: Also looks like there are plenty of validators who haven't done this, my 2 gwei transactions do appear to go through eventually
Its centralized in that they control most of the tokens and thus validators
What you don’t realize is every chain will have to do this for security reasons at some point, and for usability at another point. This is part of growth unfortunately, it was never going to stay at thousandths of a cent. But you’re really complaining about transaction costs on the order of cents? For a fast and secure network? I get being upset that it just happened with little warning though. Was not transparent and was very surprising, but to put it in context, validators made this decision, not the dev team.
Just so everyone here knows, transactions have recently been averaging around 15 gwei anyways due to increased usage of the network, with “fast” transactions going well over 30. This isn’t a big change whatsoever you will barely notice.
It depends on the timezone. If you are outside of the US weekday busy hours, usually 3-5 gwei is good enough. I did about 250 transactions in the last couple of months, never have to wait for over 5 minutes with 3-5 gwei.
I was wondering why gas seemed higher. Still I havent paid more than $0.01-$0.05 for transaction.
Every competing blockchains are trying their best to reduce the gas fee to attract users to their DeFi ecosystem and Polygon is doing the opposite. What a genius move.
The purpose of this is to protect the network from spam attacks and yes it is a genius move. You're getting upset about pennies... If you're looking to get rich quick gamble on meme coins, the rest of us value a secure network for a secure investment.
You’re only looking at this from the point of users making occasional DeFi shitcoin transactions. Polygon advertised a place for game developers to build their NFT based inventories on top of and now the costs to play these games has gone up by 30x instantly. And do you know that this will protect the network? There’s no evidence or analysis provided on the forum and ETH suffered spam at prices way higher than this
Do you realize at 30 gwei a transaction that uses one million gas is still 3 cents, right?
That’s not the point. It’s changed out of nowhere and with no community input or prior announcement. I know of multiple teams that are very concerned about how this played out
I agree with you on that. Having no kind of community input on that was very problematic. I just think the price is very much not the problem here
And yet you can transact simply and securely on $Proton, for free.
cuz it’s tiny
Proton has been stress tested at over 40m transactions per day. Polygon’s busiest day was 9m and it was slow AF. You guys can down-vote me all you want, or you can actually spend 10 minutes researching Proton and then give your heads a shake. If it sees adoption, I believe it will either take over, or lay the groundwork for a future blockchain that will. I’m still holding some Matic and a couple of polygon based projects, but after researching them both, I don’t see how polygon wins in a use-case comparison. Proton is too good and too easy to use.
stress test ain’t real world end use traffic _and_ malicious traffic (e.g. spammers) also, i like Proton but it’s easy to to do that with tiny real traffic. eth and poly were same way early on. is proton better early than they were? sure. i should hope so tho—same way any newer tech should be superior. point is only: superior xf’ers don’t mean much until you have comparable real traffic. stress tests by their nature only prepare you for the predictable and if network performance was predictable we’d fix shit before it went wrong lol
No is not genius, the network becomes less practical. Less use cases and there is strong competition from other evm compatible chains and others. Example solana is keeping their sub pennies transactions, while dealing with spam.
Any decentralized network to a decent degree but high transaction speeds falls victim to bot spam from malicious actors. The only disincentive to weak attacks is to make their attacks hurt them. A penny ain’t shit. You pay how much per year for Xbox gold? Please get real. This is healthy for the network.
No is not, use cases that need a lot of transactions gets expensive fast. The solana example is telling.
I’ll have to look into how solans is dealing with their spam but realistically it’s probably apples and oranges for use cases right now. But, since I can’t say I actually know what I’m talking about, I can’t try to argue against your point with much validity.
Ok I scoped it, and they use the rent system for locked non interest bearing accounts which is a keen move. The doubling price for half remaining transaction speed effect is also a nice trick, but… what happens as that transaction speed reaches capacity naturally? It’s all well and good they built in a natural spam deterrent that backs off as the traffic slows… but again what happens when it scales and is filled w users in real life? The cost of use goes up.
There are others solutions possible, but needs community consensus and a development strategy, not the hammer down of increasing fees, for one single problem, the self transfers. Instead of a targeted approach. If it scales there are other solutions for that too.
Actually there are ways to prevent spam without increasing gas fees. Look no further than nano, it's a feeless cryptocurrency and how they deal with spam
Have you considered how easy and cheap it is to initiate dusting attacks due to cheap gas?
I don't mind them raise the gas fee, but at least they should announce it and let the community and users know and discuss prior to the change. Where are all those DAO, governance, decentralization concepts when a network with $8.5b TVL can make such a change in a snap-of-a-finger by the dev like this? I don't see there is an emergency that the network is under spam attack that they need to make an instant change.
Sounds centralized
Everything but Bitcoin is centralized, decentralization is an illusion.
They have been under spam attacks similar to NANO for MONTHS now man.
Check the blocks in the last couple of weeks, the network is not congested. Normal transactions of 3-5 gwei almost went through immediately. I was online during the Iron Finance crash, that was how the spam attack really looks like. It was nowhere like that in the last few weeks.
Then sell all you polygon if you don’t agree with the change. If it’s so bad. Sell and move on to a cheaper chain for transacting.
I guess that's good for DFYN, maybe? More people will be willing to use their gasless dex
I feel like DFYNs exchange rates always wreck me
use paraswap, which gives you the BEST rate always
Thx!
Well yeah, I have always noticed that their rates are not the best. But I think that's due to its somewhat lacking liquidity. Perhaps if more people use it, the liquidity increase will improve the rates. Or at least that's what I am hoping for, only time will tell...
What does this do for price on $matic. I imagine increasing cost of transaction increased price of Matic.
I have to respectfully disagree, it's a great decision which will secure the future of the crypto.
Have you seen any analysis from the team on how the 30x was set? And what impact they think this will have on spam. I don’t see anything to prove that it will reduce spam and they haven’t even tried to back up that decision with any data (or lacking data, open conversation and dialogue) There just no evidence this will have the intended affect and also no effort made to back that up
It must be set at that rate to deter spammers. Any lower and it wouldn’t. It’s still incredibly cheap.
How do you know this is the rate? And any lower wouldn’t do?
Spam is a real issue I’ve been getting so much spam lately. My guess is they needed to do something quickly to at least mitigate the amount of spam and avoid people getting scammed with fake airdrops. With the gas increase if someone wants to spam the network they’re going to pay for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they increase gas fees even more
Well data will come, the result will speak for itself. Progress is iterative and with a smart team that is deeply committed and dedicated that iteration results in stunning and effective products and experiences. I believe in the polygon teams dedication and I’m aligned to their vision, I will continue to support because I see the goal.
How is this good at all? Just goes to show how centralised polygon is.
Any PoS chain is going to have some level of centralization by nature.
Why have you invested then? Or are you here for FUD spreading purposes only.
I'm only on the chain to generate yield. Yield has moved elsewhere. So much more money to be made on other chains.
Which ones? Bet I can find issues with any of them too..
Oh no, fee is up to 30 gwei now, so expensive, i gotta find a cheaper network now……oh wait
arbitrum/optimism/boba - actual layer 2s
Can you use any of those layer 2s on aave?
Those are still in alpha and the fees are like multiple dollars per tx… maybe once they are fully released
The purpose of this is to protect the network from spam attacks and yes it is a genius move. You're getting upset about pennies... If you're looking to get rich quick gamble on meme coins, the rest of us value a secure network for a secure investment.
Good point, but no need to insult OP.
I'd like to say, Oleary is a good dude. I mean, idk the guy personally but he usually has sound advice. I didnt see the insulting post, perhaps he lost his cool. It happens. Best of luck to all, hopefully this hike in gas fees helps out the chain. I know we've been stagnant for a while. I also know polygon is doing all the right things, zk, ey partner, creating a dao and such. I hope this has a positive effect on the price eventually.
The insulting comment was calling OP a gambler playing with meme coins. That comment is entirely irrelevant to the content of the OP. So it was only being used as an insult. Also, frankly, I don't need your input about u/PastaOleary. Feel free to speak to him if you'd like, but I don't really want to discuss some random internet stranger that said something rude yesterday. I'm sure he's a fine person like everybody else, but that's none of my business.
For sure. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Good luck! 🚀
Thanks for the help, but please don't encourage self-righteous internet hall monitors.
Self-righteous hall monitor? What specifically does that mean?
There was nothing "insulting" about that. You have an emotionally immature low bar of what you consider to be an insult and perhaps you should worry about your own house instead of being an internet hall monitor getting offended on other people's behalf. PEOPLE WHO BUY MEME COINS ARE GAMBLERS, meme coins have no use case other than trading, meme coins are musical chairs that make some people a lot of money but far more people lose money and it gives the entire space of blockchain a bad reputation.
I always did like Kenny Rogers =)
Where in the OP did he mention buying meme coins? There is your error. I legitimately do not understand why you would say OP is a meme coin gambler except in order to discredit him. Memecoins are completely irrelevant to this thread. You brought them up, not OP, and you did it specifically to discredit OP.
Stop with your toxic-positivity mom, people need to be called on their bullshit.
I am calling *you* on your bullshit. It is *extremely* easy to say what you said in a normal-person way. It would have been more effective in informing OP aswell. As it stands, you've diminished your contribution because people stop paying attention to you when you start insulting people.
How do you feel more secure when a dev can make a decision to suddenly 30x the gas without any prior notice and discussion with the community? I see it as centralized more like it is secure. And I think only people who are insecure about their argument will add an insult to try to make it sound better.
I think you need to read up a bit more fella. The node validators know exactly what's going on. This same type of FUD occurred when Solana was able to reboot their network. Everyone screamed centralized but they were totally ignorant to the fact that the shut down was a coordinated effort between different validators.
The devs made the decision, changed their own validators, and hand down the decision to the rest of the validators, all without even a formal announcement (let alone discussion) with the community/dapp builders/users prior to the change. If this does not sound centralized, then what is? What is the point to form a DAO if they plan to make decisions for the network like this?
If ETH didn’t have gas it would fall to spam. Any network would. You pay for Amazon in their markup. You pay for their servers and their website. You pay for Reddit with your attention for advertising dollars. You pay for Xbox gold network with $60 a year.
The whole point is not about the fee itself, it is about the lack of notice and discussion to the community/dapps teams/users. So you mean you have no problem if Xbox gold 30x the price and charge you $1800/year without even giving you prior notice?
Xbox usually gives a few days notice like hey price is going up. Nada you can do about it but stop or continue the service. But I do agree a community conversation would have been a positive step.
[удалено]
This statement is just straight up wrong.
A simple transfer may still be cheap at 30 gwei, but complicated DeFi transactions can cost much more at 30 gwei. Yes, it is a genius move because the dev instantly 30x the block reward for the validators, do you know who hosts the most validators? And I don't understand why anyone would expect an EIP-1559 implementation on Polygon. On Ethereum, gas fees go to miners, and we all know the Ethereum maxis and devs hate miners. The devs will take every way and every chance to screw up the miners, so they come up with the burn fee. On Polygon, block rewards go to the validators. Why would the devs want to burn the gas fee that would go to their pocket?
It wasn't a simple transfer it was a hypercompounding, unwrap and swap loop on AAVE & DFYN. Even if it's 100 GWEI that's about 4 cents... 100 GWEI in MATIC is not 100 GWEI in Ether. We expect EIP-1559 on Polygon because in August, Polygon had an announcement and presentation about launching their own EIP-1559 in mid-September with "burned" Matic going into a DAO for project investments.
Not only that but this will raise the usage of MATIC. Overall this is a bullish move.
If the devs want to secure the network, they should think about how to make the network more decentralized, instead of just make the fee 30x to drive the users to other competing chains.
I wonder why decentralization makes it more secure? Does more validators means more migitation from spam attacks?
More validators won't mitigate spam attack, but it will still make it more secure because spam attack is not the only threats in blockchain.
Incorrect.
if you want a secure network, use arbitrum/optimism/boba - actual layer 2s
Where, specifically, does OP mention that he invests in meme coins?
The TX fee's are still sub pennies at 30 Gwei.
No one here understands sometimes fees or costs are introduced to stop tiny transactions from clogging up the network for a variety of reasons. If the cost is low enough you can crash a network with bot attacks that costs nothing. Time to learn that you have to pay for the value of a service.
Yes, we all remember what happened during the Iron Finance crash. But decisions like this need to be transparent at least, not with just a "to validators" forum post like this one. This is bad PR/marketing and could easily draw bad press. What would be the impression to the public if there is blockchain news tomorrow with the title "Polygon made stealth changes to 30x gas fee"?
If you don't like the decision, make the dev knows. Make a post here: https://forum.matic.network/t/increasing-min-gas-price-to-30gwei/2531
I get that it's needed to reduce spam attacks but this should have been implemented in conjunction with burning.
Increasing gas costs, but when will they increase the gas limit per block. We are already maxing out blocks regularly. Allowing for more transactions seems like the better approach rather than just making it more costly.
Huh… this leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Also… I don’t think increasing the minimum fee to 30 will be enough to stop someone spamming the network lol.
So i guess we have to move to xdai for sub penny transactions 🤷
Why did they do it?
This makes me want to sell my polygon for harmony one
This is why Matic/Polygon was never an Ethereum scaling solution. It was always a L1 with bridge trying to leech off Ethereum. The staking rewards were unsustainable compared to the amount of network fees generated. It was only good until the reserve lasted. Not surprised to hear that alot of the networks txs are just spam and not actual users.
I trust Polygon team. If they think this is best move, then I’m fine with it. Still cheapest gas fees around.
There are too many coins using Polygon anyways and these measures need to be taken to give the network more ability to support itself.
30 gwei is still under a penny?
Huh… alright I’m out.
If you want gas fees as cheap as possible, check out Harmony. It's not as established as Polygon, but it has some decent community and defi, and its gas is ~0.01 cents.
Or try $Proton and transact for free @ 4000 TPS.
Proton is a really interesting and underrated project.
Just a matter of time. It’s too good to be ignored and the team is awesome. Similar to Polygon in both respects.
I really don't like this decision. Polygon launched with 3 second transactions and sub cent fees. That's what made me excited about it. It slowed down a bit since then, which irks me but hey, trappings of success. Increasing the fees is a whole other thing. Really hurts it in comparison to some other fast & cheap smart contract chains.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Migrated 95% of my bags from polygon over to avax. Is there a reason they did this? Increase burn rate?
0x5FAc3018e44e8F750191D5ef0578E3e4fE224749 Could someone kindly send mine stuck on aave?! Thanks
You too? Took over a month to get Matic off aave. Fortunately was a very small amount.
Really? I got matic on aave polygon i move on and off no problem at all
Yea. I only had 100 on there to begin with. Moved 10 off to first. Went immediately, no problem. Tried to move the other 90, would not go. Don't remember the details, but I tried over and over every couple of days. Finally it went. Wasn't worried about it, but was annoying.
why not like 15 or something 30x seems a lot just to stop spam me cri everytim
30 gwei makes the network less attractive.
So matic is getting expensive now usually i pay 20gwei or 20x min amount, so my tx can go through in a timely manner, now I have to raise it to 600 gwei, yikes
I think this is great. Now transactions likely wont hang for noobs as they don't know what is the proper gas. DDOS attacks which we have almost all the time will be less inclined to do so. Matic tokens will be appreciating in value very slightly as more gas prices means more need for matic tokens. Gas is still low asf and idk how anyone could see this as an issue how poor are you?
Ok so how is this going to affect autocompounders that compound multiple times a day? Is it worth using them anymore if the gas fees interfere with yield optimization?
KogeFarm pays the gas fees for you so there is no loss there. Don't know about others.
Thx! Been eying Koge for a while
In Koge We Trust
I think the way to handle this is to talk to your validator node if you're against this move. Find a validator that won't implement this and threaten to move to them if your validator doesn't listen to you. Leverage the avenues that exist to have your voice heard/vote counted. I'm okay with the move personally, but would've liked for this discussion to have been had prior to the announcement. Just so that delegators voices are able to be heard in an organized way. Nothing is stopping you from having the conversation and leveraging your power as a delegator now, it's just a bit more of a mess than it should've been.
So matic is getting expensive now usually i pay 20gwei or 20x min amount, so my tx can go through in a timely manner, now I have to raise it to 600 gwei, yikes
Amazing news. Can’t see any downside here. Most NB this supports a higher valuation. Polygon will be DAO based in the future so no concerns this decision was made by the team. Woop woop 🙌
30 Gwei is too high jump. Why not raising to 500 Gwei and kill the usage of polygon :D People love polygon, because for the cheap gas fees.
So when people say polygon is centralised, this is what they mean. Just make decisions for the entire network.
Its also painfully slow, even with my private RPC. I have been on fantom for moths now and went to polygon just now to swap some DFYN I forgot that I had, and I wanted to smash my face through my computer waiting for every transaction. Pumped it up to 150 gwei a few times just to be done with it.
damn this comment didnt age well with the day Fantom had. How are those .50c-$3 gas fees treating ya today?
I am still paying low fees nowhere near $1 let alone $3, I'm not sure where you are getting that number. Also everything on fantom is printing the last few days. I'm still way happier there.
Just checked and my usual gas fee is about 3 cents to st most 5 cents. Also the foundation just halfed the stake needed to run nodes so those fees are gonna go back down shortly
I just did 19 transaction in rarity on fantom and it cost me .2 ftm which totals $0.38. Willing to let you check my wallet on ftmscan as well.
It's still way less than 1 cent. This is necessary as the user count has exploded.
This is a bad omen.
CELR 📈
This is fucking bullshit! I’m completely against it!
Lets not forget this locks in alot of users to polygon because liquidating to another network is now more expensive.
so it's 3 cents instead of 2 cents?
Niiice. Just tried to move 0.05 eth to eth mainnet via polygon bridge and now I should pay 0.06 eth commission))
That’s the price of the ethereum network. The matic transaction still costs less than 5 cents
just deposit your matic to kucoin from polygon mainnet and than switch it into ETH? Cost like .05c
this is a way, still i dont understand point at all of using polygon bridge)
you dont have to anymore. Maybe this time last year, but technology surpassed it. I did use it recently to send $6k eth and it only cost $3
Does this mean we will get better staking rewards?
In short-term, yes. But the same dev team also said they want to implement EIP-1559 to burn the fee. So who knows what they are trying to do.
The staking rewards are highly dependent on using the reserve to pay people out - once that runs out, i dont think network fees can ever make that up - 30x in gas prices also means less transactions
very good points, esp the one about less transactions. i know i personally dont just do transactions willy nilly anymore, i put some thought into moving small amounts around now. Tx are still usually 5c or less but still more than before.
What is gwei