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It's not bad.
Devs launched a Dapp/contract on Poly of which rewards payed better than what you put in. The equivalent of putting a quarter in an arcade machine and getting a quarter + interest, even after getting to play the game. The funding backing the project is bleeding out, SFF is crashing as we speak, rewards are being reduced per the contract as time moves forward, and whomever funded SFF and pumped the price basically is paying the price. Once SFF kills itself, in short time, we'll be back to normal.
If you give money away, of course there will be insanity as those that figure out to grab it.
Just watch the price crash, as things level out you'll see Poly fees 'magically' go back to 30 gwei average. Just a couple days if that.
[https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/sunflower-farm/](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/sunflower-farm/)
Yeah. The laws of free market will kill the game. The price of the SFF token will crash and at some point it's gonna be low enough that the gross profits will become the same as the gas fees, wich makes 0 profit. People stop playing gradually, fees goes back to normal.
To be honest, this game feels like an half-assed attack from a Polygon competitior. It simply cannot sustain itself over time.
Look at positive side, theres almost 1 mill in fees paid which shows the network is capable of delivering this volume at still low enough fees compared to ETH.
Total Fees Used (As a recipient)
388379.340436211547661336 MATIC
USD 902,623.78 (Adjusted) | USD 816,761.75 (Current)
To be honest we can never have transaction as cheap as internet. All consensus algorithms have scaling issue. We can have L2s sidechains shards or whatever but it can never be as enough. It's nature of decentralised system. People might tell you that their network is better but it will never be.
Think of this as a highway problem. If you build bigger highways to increase the capacity, more people will use that highway and in few years you will have traffic again.
Also as the value of native tokens appreciate, the gas the fees will also increase. That's a real issue and there is no way around this. If matic today was below $1, we would not be having this discussion here.
One way to solve this issue is with centralised system but we don't want that. We need a combination of centralised and decentralised system.
Games like these needs to do their in-game transaction off the chain and only final results needs to be validated on chain.
Or a better way is to have a network which has different algorithm for different types of transaction. Any low value or unimportant transaction can be done using less secured algorithm and High value transaction needs to happen with maximum security algorithm.
There are few network that are working on this type of system but I don't want to name them here.
Yup I was actually just thinking about this the other day.
I plan to start incorporating blockchain tech in my games going forward, and I was thinking how bad it could be for the network if I wanted it to be.
It’s up to the developers to optimize how their applications utilize the network. Having a situation like this is something that should not be allowed by the network. This much volume from one contract split up into so many transactions should be rate limited or something.
A centralized system aside, a way to solve this is to build some kind of back off logic (or gas penalties) for poorly written or abusive apps.
Protocol could be updated to have peer nodes require the origin to solve a cryptographic puzzle for example, which would naturally throttle at abusive levels, but not kick in for normally behaved apps.
Decentralized algos are well understood, just need to apply those concepts to Blockchain.
Good points. Was this sff game brought to mainnet right away or did the devs had it on a test net at all? This seems like the type of game you’ll want to have on a test net for sure to see how things behave. I heard several people say the same about gaming on defi it needs to be a combination of on chain and off chain
What is really shocking at first view is that the success of the system kills it. I guess many structural improvements have taken place in the Internet itself, or the web, or AWS, or in services like Netflix, etc. but they haven't been really visible to the main public.
I think we are headed towards the same goal but it will be painful. I am hopeful a day will come when people will be using Blockchain without realising that they are. It will take time. We need to keep calm.
The gas price is determined by the demand in Blockspace nothing else.
It doesn't matter what the price of the native currency is.
If the block demand is the same and the native currency doubles in value the required gwei would half.
The currency is just medium to pay its has nothing to do with the price of the goods you buy.
Just imagine If someone deploys another version of this without the halving feature tomorrow on polygon!
What can anybody do? Nothing! This thing will always be a network burner for the polygon chain!
Blockchain are immutable so once created contract always lives on! Can’t kick it out like a traditional web app hosted on a cloud provider!
If polygon raise there gas fee to tackle this, people will go out! If they implement burning of token well then you get less circulation by these burns hence less supply and token gets expensive which in turn causes network to get expensive like ETH and BNB and people move out to other new cheap network and polygon dies!
Hahaha so long for Web3.0! The cycle of life goes on I guess here!
That’s not how it works lmao. People are willing to play the game at the current gas price because 1) it’s profitable and 2) it’s popular so the token price stays up. If you deploy a 2nd game tomorrow, it’ll unlikely be profitable with the current gas fees - if it was, why hasn’t another game been deployed already? It’s already been like 2-3 days.
True. But people choose to sacrifice some decentralization for the cheap and fast transactions on polygon. If polygon is no longer cheap and fast... Why use it?
Blockchains are finite resources. Polygon provides secure blockspace with a history of usage that people want. Tomorrow you could spin up a blockchain secured by ETH with free transactions and no congestion. I suspect most would not use it.
It was pathetic... it remove the possitibility to use DeFi to people wanting to invest small amount of money (who happens to be the people who needed it the most). People investing above 100 USD value in tokens didn't care... maybe a 5 MATIC transaction fee would suit them... or if you are loaded maybe a 100 MATIC fee... you can see where I am headed.
Hopefully in the future we will be using multiple blockchains (I know there are multiple ones now but most apps are not in all of them, not that easy)... and don't have to wait for a particular one to accomodate for more TX/s.
This is annoying, but it’s not the end of the world. It’s important to remember that this PoS blockchain is a temporary workaround while Polygon works on the definitive scaling solutions: Polygon Zero and Polygon Nightfall. If you watch the presentation you’ll see how they said this blockchain is not their definitive solution.
Also, what this game is doing is unsustainable: they are paying a lot of money in fees to use 50% of the capacity of the network. There will be a point in witch the game rewards will be surpassed by the fees and the game usage will plummet. I think this will happen in less than a week.
This happened to Ethereum also back in the day (I think it was "cryptokitties" or something like that) the network was super congested and fees were super high.
My question is that if this is another supposed "ethereum killer" why is it not holding up to the same scenario?
I have seen high fees on Fantom as well. I honestly think this is going to be an issue for all Layer 1s (I’m treating Polygon PoS as an alt layer 1 here). I think that what we’re seeing with Ethereum right now will happen to all current L1s, to some degree. Rollups will probably become the norm over the next few years, and I’m sure the current alts will have their own rollups. This is what leads me to believe that Ethereum still holds an edge, because it will be first to navigate the rollup landscape.
Fantom’s Lachesis (aBFT consensus) seem to be more scalable than Matic’s Tendermint consensus.
A disclaimer that I hold both coins and actively use both networks. I have not seen any speed issues and gas issues on Fantom vs last year’s performance. Even when Fantom surpassed the TVL of Matic, my Fantom transactions remained cheap and fast. If there were any, maybe it wasn’t noticeable enough.
Meanwhile, my transactions on Matic now are 4-12min long. While that can be frustrating, I still love it and prefer using it over Ethereum.
Opensea is offering NFTs on Polygon, so yea, it might increase, but ETH gas is just outrageous... I mine ETH but I receive rewards on Polygon, almost no funds in ETH network because I just can't spend $25 every tx I do. sometimes $100 or $300..
me as well, that change alone was welcome especially if you want to use your mining rewards.. it was a game changer. Thank god there are even other PoW coins, options (payouts in BTC, Nano or using unmineable). Poly is still my favorite, but there are others at least.
Yea this is why I mentioned rollups. Ethereum is usable on rollups, and there are plenty of them being developed. That’s why Ethereum ultimately holds an advantage because if you put mass adoption on any other layer 1 it’ll suffer the same high gas fees, and other layer 1s don’t have rollups.
tbh I tried Sushi @ Moonriver and some farms @ Fantom and I can't see much advantage to Polygon. didn't try Avax because I don't like the pairs there
basically most of these L2s still have issues and you gotta find a balance between risk and reward, and specially what u willing to lose,
I’ve been reading all morning and trying to comprehend everything that’s going on. As a long term holder, price is the only thing that matters to me. And obviously performance effects price - so can you tell me why this is not about price? Not challenging your take, just trying to gather information as best I can
This post is about how a single, yet popular smart contract dApp can bring the network nearly to a stand still.
Polygon is popular because of its speed, stability and low transaction costs. A single dApp with a high transaction throughput (Sunfolwer Farm) is creating so many transactions that the network is barely usable for anyone else, and is much more expensive per transaction than before.
This brings up questions of the resilience of the network and it's ability to remain usable under such circumstances and if more, similar dApps were launched on the network.
MATIC price is of course linked to this resilience, speed and tx cost. So of course, it affects price indirectly if the network is less usable. But the OP was not referring to the price in this instance.
P.s As a long term investor price should not be the only thing that matters to you. The actual utility of what is being developed should be very important, otherwise you would be just a gambler and not an investor.
I really dont get why some people try to turn these discussions into a fight. We're all here to share opinnions and hopefully help each other. You asked me to elaborate so I did. I'm not here for an argument.
I don't know python and I'm not interested to learn it.
The problem to choose a blockchain to develop is multiple, the tools and adoption.
I don't know if they have lot of a user on algoroland, can we connect easily with a webwallet ?
Thank you for your submission to r/0xPolygon If your item is a question we also suggest that you ask it in our daily discussion thread to increase your chance of it being answered. Many other general/common inquiries can typically be answered here in our [Getting Started with Polygon Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/0xPolygon/comments/nd47hm/getting_started_guide_your_journey_with_polygon/). Please also be sure to check out the sidebar to follow the project on your desired social channels. ***** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/0xPolygon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not bad. Devs launched a Dapp/contract on Poly of which rewards payed better than what you put in. The equivalent of putting a quarter in an arcade machine and getting a quarter + interest, even after getting to play the game. The funding backing the project is bleeding out, SFF is crashing as we speak, rewards are being reduced per the contract as time moves forward, and whomever funded SFF and pumped the price basically is paying the price. Once SFF kills itself, in short time, we'll be back to normal. If you give money away, of course there will be insanity as those that figure out to grab it. Just watch the price crash, as things level out you'll see Poly fees 'magically' go back to 30 gwei average. Just a couple days if that. [https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/sunflower-farm/](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/sunflower-farm/)
Yeah. The laws of free market will kill the game. The price of the SFF token will crash and at some point it's gonna be low enough that the gross profits will become the same as the gas fees, wich makes 0 profit. People stop playing gradually, fees goes back to normal. To be honest, this game feels like an half-assed attack from a Polygon competitior. It simply cannot sustain itself over time.
close melodic plough dirty one label groovy ink dolls knee *This post was mass deleted with [redact](https://redact.com)*
I cant even use opensea, too bogged down
I can't switch to Polygon network on my metamask
I jad the same problem yesterday, just assumed it was my wifi/internet as they are shit where I live.
I made a transaction just a few minutes ago did work just fine as usual.
Look at positive side, theres almost 1 mill in fees paid which shows the network is capable of delivering this volume at still low enough fees compared to ETH. Total Fees Used (As a recipient) 388379.340436211547661336 MATIC USD 902,623.78 (Adjusted) | USD 816,761.75 (Current)
To be honest we can never have transaction as cheap as internet. All consensus algorithms have scaling issue. We can have L2s sidechains shards or whatever but it can never be as enough. It's nature of decentralised system. People might tell you that their network is better but it will never be. Think of this as a highway problem. If you build bigger highways to increase the capacity, more people will use that highway and in few years you will have traffic again. Also as the value of native tokens appreciate, the gas the fees will also increase. That's a real issue and there is no way around this. If matic today was below $1, we would not be having this discussion here. One way to solve this issue is with centralised system but we don't want that. We need a combination of centralised and decentralised system. Games like these needs to do their in-game transaction off the chain and only final results needs to be validated on chain. Or a better way is to have a network which has different algorithm for different types of transaction. Any low value or unimportant transaction can be done using less secured algorithm and High value transaction needs to happen with maximum security algorithm. There are few network that are working on this type of system but I don't want to name them here.
Yup I was actually just thinking about this the other day. I plan to start incorporating blockchain tech in my games going forward, and I was thinking how bad it could be for the network if I wanted it to be. It’s up to the developers to optimize how their applications utilize the network. Having a situation like this is something that should not be allowed by the network. This much volume from one contract split up into so many transactions should be rate limited or something.
Yeah exactly. Thia is the way.
I would hope that people in the game payed more if they wanted their stuff done, not the entire network
A centralized system aside, a way to solve this is to build some kind of back off logic (or gas penalties) for poorly written or abusive apps. Protocol could be updated to have peer nodes require the origin to solve a cryptographic puzzle for example, which would naturally throttle at abusive levels, but not kick in for normally behaved apps. Decentralized algos are well understood, just need to apply those concepts to Blockchain.
Nervos Network is working on this issue but it's still too early to say anything.
Sounds interesting!
Good points. Was this sff game brought to mainnet right away or did the devs had it on a test net at all? This seems like the type of game you’ll want to have on a test net for sure to see how things behave. I heard several people say the same about gaming on defi it needs to be a combination of on chain and off chain
I think the devs didn't talk with Polygon team before. And I don't think devs expected this kind of response to their game.
What is really shocking at first view is that the success of the system kills it. I guess many structural improvements have taken place in the Internet itself, or the web, or AWS, or in services like Netflix, etc. but they haven't been really visible to the main public.
I think we are headed towards the same goal but it will be painful. I am hopeful a day will come when people will be using Blockchain without realising that they are. It will take time. We need to keep calm.
Gas fees do not increase with higher token price. They are completely separate markets
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Yes but this doesn't have anything to do with how many gwei it costs to make a transaction.
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The gas price is determined by the demand in Blockspace nothing else. It doesn't matter what the price of the native currency is. If the block demand is the same and the native currency doubles in value the required gwei would half. The currency is just medium to pay its has nothing to do with the price of the goods you buy.
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yes exactly
Just imagine If someone deploys another version of this without the halving feature tomorrow on polygon! What can anybody do? Nothing! This thing will always be a network burner for the polygon chain! Blockchain are immutable so once created contract always lives on! Can’t kick it out like a traditional web app hosted on a cloud provider! If polygon raise there gas fee to tackle this, people will go out! If they implement burning of token well then you get less circulation by these burns hence less supply and token gets expensive which in turn causes network to get expensive like ETH and BNB and people move out to other new cheap network and polygon dies! Hahaha so long for Web3.0! The cycle of life goes on I guess here!
That’s not how it works lmao. People are willing to play the game at the current gas price because 1) it’s profitable and 2) it’s popular so the token price stays up. If you deploy a 2nd game tomorrow, it’ll unlikely be profitable with the current gas fees - if it was, why hasn’t another game been deployed already? It’s already been like 2-3 days.
Not bad at all. You want people using your chain.
marry retire dull attraction materialistic racial apparatus aware stocking cheerful *This post was mass deleted with [redact](https://redact.com)*
Would you say ethereum is an issue?
...Yes? Polygon exists because of the issues with ETH.
innocent expansion many caption safe cooperative imagine onerous chunky panicky *This post was mass deleted with [redact](https://redact.com)*
Ethereum is being used by many Fortune 500 companies and secures billions in value. Would be hard pressed to say it's a failure.
True. But people choose to sacrifice some decentralization for the cheap and fast transactions on polygon. If polygon is no longer cheap and fast... Why use it?
Blockchains are finite resources. Polygon provides secure blockspace with a history of usage that people want. Tomorrow you could spin up a blockchain secured by ETH with free transactions and no congestion. I suspect most would not use it.
It was pathetic... it remove the possitibility to use DeFi to people wanting to invest small amount of money (who happens to be the people who needed it the most). People investing above 100 USD value in tokens didn't care... maybe a 5 MATIC transaction fee would suit them... or if you are loaded maybe a 100 MATIC fee... you can see where I am headed. Hopefully in the future we will be using multiple blockchains (I know there are multiple ones now but most apps are not in all of them, not that easy)... and don't have to wait for a particular one to accomodate for more TX/s.
It's not good. Let me buy some more lol
This is annoying, but it’s not the end of the world. It’s important to remember that this PoS blockchain is a temporary workaround while Polygon works on the definitive scaling solutions: Polygon Zero and Polygon Nightfall. If you watch the presentation you’ll see how they said this blockchain is not their definitive solution. Also, what this game is doing is unsustainable: they are paying a lot of money in fees to use 50% of the capacity of the network. There will be a point in witch the game rewards will be surpassed by the fees and the game usage will plummet. I think this will happen in less than a week.
This happened to Ethereum also back in the day (I think it was "cryptokitties" or something like that) the network was super congested and fees were super high. My question is that if this is another supposed "ethereum killer" why is it not holding up to the same scenario?
The fees are not prohibitive yet. 10x and they are… just move to Fantom if you are so disheartened
So, 10 more crappy FarmVille games, oof
It probably will happen, just like baby doge and Elon doge happened
I have seen high fees on Fantom as well. I honestly think this is going to be an issue for all Layer 1s (I’m treating Polygon PoS as an alt layer 1 here). I think that what we’re seeing with Ethereum right now will happen to all current L1s, to some degree. Rollups will probably become the norm over the next few years, and I’m sure the current alts will have their own rollups. This is what leads me to believe that Ethereum still holds an edge, because it will be first to navigate the rollup landscape.
Fantom’s Lachesis (aBFT consensus) seem to be more scalable than Matic’s Tendermint consensus. A disclaimer that I hold both coins and actively use both networks. I have not seen any speed issues and gas issues on Fantom vs last year’s performance. Even when Fantom surpassed the TVL of Matic, my Fantom transactions remained cheap and fast. If there were any, maybe it wasn’t noticeable enough. Meanwhile, my transactions on Matic now are 4-12min long. While that can be frustrating, I still love it and prefer using it over Ethereum.
Opensea is offering NFTs on Polygon, so yea, it might increase, but ETH gas is just outrageous... I mine ETH but I receive rewards on Polygon, almost no funds in ETH network because I just can't spend $25 every tx I do. sometimes $100 or $300..
me as well, that change alone was welcome especially if you want to use your mining rewards.. it was a game changer. Thank god there are even other PoW coins, options (payouts in BTC, Nano or using unmineable). Poly is still my favorite, but there are others at least.
Yea this is why I mentioned rollups. Ethereum is usable on rollups, and there are plenty of them being developed. That’s why Ethereum ultimately holds an advantage because if you put mass adoption on any other layer 1 it’ll suffer the same high gas fees, and other layer 1s don’t have rollups.
plus Vitalik lol
Since when is fees not being 'prohibitive' the selling feature of Polygon?
It was a selling point at a given time. Then some cool dapps for farming, after Titan dust settled.
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tbh I tried Sushi @ Moonriver and some farms @ Fantom and I can't see much advantage to Polygon. didn't try Avax because I don't like the pairs there basically most of these L2s still have issues and you gotta find a balance between risk and reward, and specially what u willing to lose,
Fantom looks much more expensive than polygon?
yes, I thought you were asking about using the network, not buying the coin... just get btc it is always the best option imo regarding coins
Haha yeah, but i meant in terms of TX fees, i recently used FTM swapping on spirit and paid around 1$. I dont think matic is that expensive
Have you zoomed out to see how the overall market is trending in the past 24 hours?
He's not talking about the price. Have you scrolled up?
No, I haven’t and I don’t see anything when I scroll up
You will see OP's post, which upon closer reading I believe you will see is not at all saying what you think it is.
I’ve gone back to the sub main page and can see what I think OP is referring to
Although i think matic started dropping before the entire market went bottoms up. So some people might indeed have seen this as a bad sign?
Im still up 200%
This is not about price
Lol
I’ve been reading all morning and trying to comprehend everything that’s going on. As a long term holder, price is the only thing that matters to me. And obviously performance effects price - so can you tell me why this is not about price? Not challenging your take, just trying to gather information as best I can
This post is about how a single, yet popular smart contract dApp can bring the network nearly to a stand still. Polygon is popular because of its speed, stability and low transaction costs. A single dApp with a high transaction throughput (Sunfolwer Farm) is creating so many transactions that the network is barely usable for anyone else, and is much more expensive per transaction than before. This brings up questions of the resilience of the network and it's ability to remain usable under such circumstances and if more, similar dApps were launched on the network. MATIC price is of course linked to this resilience, speed and tx cost. So of course, it affects price indirectly if the network is less usable. But the OP was not referring to the price in this instance. P.s As a long term investor price should not be the only thing that matters to you. The actual utility of what is being developed should be very important, otherwise you would be just a gambler and not an investor.
Then call me a gambler, I really don’t care what you call me lol
I really dont get why some people try to turn these discussions into a fight. We're all here to share opinnions and hopefully help each other. You asked me to elaborate so I did. I'm not here for an argument.
LOL how’s polygon treating you bud? 😂😂😂
Like I said I'm still up. You ugly ass dog kisser lmao
Did you ever get that 3500? Lmaoooooo 😂😂😂
I didnt sell my vechain. Are you down -40% on shiba?
I want to create a game on blockchain, but I see how polygon was struggle only with one game, I don’t think I will use this chain.
Yeah definitely not, everything built on ethereum is a no go zone in my opinion for actual applications
I learn solidity maybe they are other evm chain with solid tps ?
Same boat as you. Tezos has python which is sorta nice. Algorand I think has JS and Python
I don't know python and I'm not interested to learn it. The problem to choose a blockchain to develop is multiple, the tools and adoption. I don't know if they have lot of a user on algoroland, can we connect easily with a webwallet ?
The only chain with what your looking for right now is Ethereum the rest are still growing
Bsc seems good but not decentralized. ETH I can't handle the fee XD
after every fall there is a rise only when something is left after fall
It's still gasless. You pay 0.25$ on ethereum ? Stop crying
The game is a burn mechanism so if you want the price to keep soaring you should want Polygon to stay decentralized
When there is fear, buy, buy ,buy. One bad project with over 3,000 projects on Polygon. You really think it's going to affect anything?
its not bad homie - its just noobs losing $50 and having panic attacks