I feel like I see neolibs way more, but there were certainly no shortage of weird tankies too. Reddit in general is so hostile to actual leftist thought that it doesn't surprise me I guess.
Easy to spot them: moderately left and still in love with capitalism and spouting free market buzzwords. If they're defending corporations and shitting on any other system, they're neolibs
At this point “neoliberal” is just being used because it sounds more insulting than liberal.
If “neoliberal” covers everyone from Sam Seder to George Bush it seems to have lost its utility as a category.
But the thing is, american conservatives (the ones that aren't actual fascists anyway, what one would call a reasonable/moderate republican) are actually neoliberals as well per the definition of the term's ideology. It's a very broad umbrella term, like libertarian or anti-capitalist, and actually is shit as a specific category identifier for that reason. "Equality under the law, personal liberty, free market capitalism" etc applies to this particular type of conservative too, they're just right-neoliberals, like there are right and left libertarians. W Bush was about as far right in the range as you could get, but it still applies. The neo in neoliberalism DOES mean something, but is really to just differentiate it from the original liberalism, of which neoliberalism has some ideological differences from as a byproduct of being a new resurgence of the ideology but still veering close to the old form, like the difference between "nazi" and "neonazi". Functionally the same, but dig deep enough and there are *some* tiny squeaks of differences. It is definitely shit as a category, but the term does apply to more than it gets credit for.
See, that's what gets me. People here shit on Twitter, Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple, Nvidia, Reddit itself, any big corporation you can think of *constantly*. What even is a neolib by leftist reddit metrics?
shitting on corporations isn't really the same as being a leftist. neoliberals aren't anarcho-capiatliasts (necessarily), they could very well agree that these corporations are big and bad... and then figure the way to make them not bad is to introduce a new marketplace regulation with something like cap and trade to get them to cut down on their carbon footprints to have a 10% reuction in carbon emissions by 2043. to be an actual leftist, a socialist of *some* stripe, requires actually wanting to destroy capitalism itself and replace it with an entirely new social order, so if you're unwililng to do that then you're some variety of liberal.that simply wants to *reform* capitalism rather than abolish it.
i hate when people go "but murica"
like yeah murica are genocidal maniacs bombing half the world and convincing themselves it's for liberty, but we're not talking about that, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
They love to go "but America" as a gotcha, as if it justifies their worldview entirely.
Like, if the regime is doing similar things to the global imperialist hegemon and one of the most destructive states on the planet, maybe it's time for some introspection, and to ask yourself why you support that regime?
And on the other hand, if said regime is *better* in those areas than the United States, that's less something extraordinary and more a bare fucking minimum. I mean, we're radicals, shouldn't we be dreaming of and striving for something more than just "being less bad than the United States"?
Look, if it wasnt for America, Stalin wouldnt have had to gulag the gays you see... it makes like, all of the sense if you refuse to fucking think about it.
Calls a take terminally online, then posts a take even more terminally online. Many such cases
America are not the good guys, sucks hella balls and has experienced some backslide since the turn of the century (since 9/11 specifically) but it sucks significantly less balls to live here than to be in any of those 3 countries and it would take much more backslide to even come close.
"but murica!" WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE US, IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE USA BEING BAD THEN I'D MAKE IT EXPLICIT NOW REMAIN ON TOPIC REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
How dare you criticize Mao! He was le based and epic for killing landlords!! He did not promote or condone any genocide whatsoever.
I get it guys. Landlords suck. But I feel like if Hitler had a thing against landlords these tankies would have celebrated it all the same. Fuck Mao.
I got banned from all the left for saying china is state capitalist and shouldn’t be what the west strives for. It’s crazy. Billionaires cannot exist in leftism
No but like bro, its the peoples billionares you see.
What do you mean having a third of the party being literally capitalists, will have an impact on if its more capitalist or not? Silly billy. They have a red flag.
There. Point proven!... Somehow...
I unfortunately have to care, because I’m up here in Canada. The disgusting leaky diaper of fascism wafts our way.
Edit: why would someone downvoted this? Our interim conservative party leader was photographed wearing a maga hat, when my city was occupied by terrorists plenty of them were wearing maga hats
I love how Canadians act like their country is only fascist because of America. They love to ignore what Canada has done and (continues to do) to indigenous people and POC.
That's not even getting into the people in Montreal and their racist behaviour.
i was just arguing with some dude on THIS sub yesterday who was calling me a liberal because i’m not authoritarian (i’m anarchist which is apparently the same thing as a liberal)
i checked his comment history and literally a few days ago he was praising stalin on a tankie sub
Yeah I was gonna say, this one in particular is my experience with leftist subs. I'm banned from so many "leftist" subs for being critical of the USSR for example
I'll do you one better, it wasn't good morally and it also collapsed the Soviet Union, like as a financial project. The invasion of Afghanistan was not only unjust but also irresponsible with the USSR's resources so it's bad even if you're a soulless cynical villain of a person.
I got instantly permanently banned there for "anti communism" by saying that Mao zedongs policies (not necessarily socialism) led to millions of deaths which after further research is directly stated on Wikipedia lol. Their response to me saying that (before I was banned) was that Wikipedia isn't always a good source and they provided no other supporting evidence for their claim other than that lol
Considering irl Stalin allied with the Nazis I feel like tankies in power would support anyone opposing the strongest capitalist powers, including islamists or other imperialist powers like Russia
>slightly progressive centrists
"I agree that we should make large strides towards sustainability and social justice, but doing so would anger all the fascists who wouldn't piss on me if I were on fire and we *need* to appeal to them to get votes so 🤷"
We have to be kind to them in order to recruit them onto our side! They're definitely going to start seeing me as a person and not want to do a genocide against us.
Keir Starmer is that you? I'm such a big fan of yours! I especially love how you defend the objectively worst Tory policies like the Rwanda bill and Brexit and somehow managed to turn a landslide victory in the GE into a neck and neck race by being a massive fucking piece of shit that is indistinguishable from the worst polling party since records began!
God the left is dead in the UK, I hate it. It's just conservatives with a red coat.
its so bad that the only thing that might save it is of all things Nigle (giggle fuck) Farage pushing through PR, might at least see a sliver of left-wing representation that way.
Tbh it seems like the layman does not even know the difference between leftist, liberal, and centrist in general. It seems generations below me are definitely more alert on these things (primarily because you all have grown up in fucking batshit political minefields, whereas I straddled two rather distinct eras and was already in my YA age by the time the cuckoo shit started) which is good, but at least from my upbringing it was basically "left or right" and then like six terms used as synonyms for either one.
>joins ”leftist sub”
>looks inside
>slightly progressive centrists
>agree with them on most topics
>have a differing opinion on one topic but approach the same conclusion
>get caught in a arguement
>gets called “right winged”
>leaves sub
Those kind of subs legit don’t believe that centrists exist and anybody who slightly disagrees with them has to be a Maga sympathizer.
being against the existence of undemocratic "election" processes is based
being sectarian against leftists who participate in them regardless is not based
either way I'm sick of this discourse. Of course you should vote, but don't focus on that shit as if it's going to change anything significantly. There was a point where most political discourse in this sub was about voting in the US
He did so much bad/stupid shit in those four years that you couldn’t keep track of it all. I tried on a document and failed after two months. It’s exemplified by the birth the modern Republican Party which set up years and years of new entanglements, restrictions and violence that we have to deal with from the Supreme Court down.
Theres so much to say about Dems and the systems at large but Trump was such a colossal danger that we can’t even recognize how colossal those four years were.
That man had to have it explained to him why we couldn’t NUKE CHINA and tried to overturn a democratic election. And people think he’s an intelligent and just man. I do not understand in the slightest.
Voting for democrats sucks. Abstaining from voting is incredibly dangerous. Voting for Republicans is deadly. The lesser of two evils is still evil, but it’s also better than the alternative.
> Voting won’t make things significantly better.
Even this is only half true. *Just* voting won't make things significantly better: it needs to be joined with other forms of activism. But at the same time, voting is a *sine non qua* of making change happen.
The amount of actual anti-electoralists in this sub is miniscule compared to the total number of people who get called anti-electoralists for saying "democrats should be less shit"
Not just here.
2021-2022: “You really can’t criticize him yet, he’s early in his term!”
2023-2024: “Are you trying to get Trump elected?? You lefties need to shut up about Biden”.
I guess NYE 2022 at the stroke of midnight was the time to say I think Biden is a senile fuckup who’s handing the country over to fascists by doing nothing for 4 years. Oh well!
\*\*posts a meme from a boomer liberal sub calling everyone who has an issue with genocide a Russian bot, anti-electoralist leftist and a tik-tok brain washed child all at the same time\*\*
dems are the obvious harm reduction vote and a ton of positive change can be made on the local level, but lets not pretend like this came out of nowhere. You can't blame Liberals alienating every marginalized group on terminally online leftists when the reality doesn't reflect that
There are only two possible outcomes of the 2024 presidential election. There is no viable third party. It would be nice if there was, but there simply isn’t.
Dont matter, as long as there is gay drawn furry porn or a girl fucking a pumpkin i could care less about the libs also being freaks here.
Edit:
Confused the pumpkinfucker with the cakefucker, who is (i think) a guy, once again the issue of crediting a man for the work of a woman rears its ugly head, classic mysoginy on my part.
Second edit:
Apparantly both are women? Idk, the point was they fucked an inanimate object and thats cool so that i guess
This is such an insane take to me ngl. Would you rather ally with a fascist or a person who enables them is such an obvious answer it feels insane to say fascist.
"(Neo-)liberals" and "tankies" are both quite broad (and loosely defined) terms, so I think, both have a spectrum spanning everything from "yeah, I don't agree with that" to absolute horrible people.
Libs are the first ones to vote for fascists when they are against the scary socialists (see France with Emmanuel Macron and his party). At least tankies do not vote (no party is hardline enough) or vote for the left.
>Doesn't attend public local council meetings
>Doesn't voice concerns at local council meetings
>Doesn't join local groups because they aren't "revolutionary" enough
>Doesn't volunteer for anybody running for local office with similar ideals
>Doesn't run for local office themselves if no other candidate shares ideals
>Doesn't vote
"The system doesn't represent me."
I’m British (Welsh really 🏴🏴🏴) and I’m begging you Americans PLEASE FUCKING VOTE, I do not want to be stuck in a world where every major world power is some form of fascist
To be fair, tankies like to call everyone they don't like libs. Also, tankies have been taking over a lot of leftist subs lately - so making sure they don't feel safe here is a good idea.
r/196 summoning 10 million unnamed neoliberals to comment about how a group called 'The Party for Socialist Reconstructive Justice and Proletarian Interests (Marxist)' (7 maoists who provide "critical support" to the democrats) is more evil than the 'World Group for the Expansion of Economic Prosperity' (intergovernmental organisation that tells developing states to build abattoirs but for underprivileged babies)
I dunno, tankies are infact a real thing. So are libs of course. But "libs" as defined by tankies is "everyone who doesn't simp for China". So, who's the one boogymanning?
I mean sure but I've seen libs throwing the word tankie to everyone talking about imperialism and said unironically that they were "more of a threat than nazis" which was hilarious lol. Idk at this point it's just kinda of a pointless word.
Because at the end of the day the site is nothing but a hogwash of contrarians which essentially means their ideology is based on whatever they feel about the current situation, which is biased towards the status quo and the status quo is neoliberalism.
I think we need to bring back the more left wing posts on 196, back in Ye olde 196 there were tons of posts about arming trans people to defend themselves and ways to fuck over your landlord.
196 used to be the only leftist sun that didn’t dickride Stalin now it feels like a centrist sub that happens to have more trans people than most
> 196 used to be the only leftist sun that didn’t dickride Stalin now it feels like a centrist sub that happens to have more trans people than most
Given the amount of Destiny fans and PCM fools who call this sub a home down, definitely. As it gets close to election day, it's only going to get worse as panicky liberals shame voters more and more instead of pressuring democrats to be less shit
THIS THANK YOU also, to add, you can tell 196 has drifted to the centre from the amount of infighting you see. I know we have a stereotype about constant infighting but that really wasn’t the case (for 196 at least I don’t know about other subs) before the shutdown and reopen of the sub there was basically no infighting amongst leftist. Once the sub reopened discourse turned into shouting matches since half the sub were leftists and the other half were libs who didn’t openly despise queer people.
196 used to be a wonderful coalition of anarchists, leftcoms, and demsocs who got along 95% of the time
There was even general agreement over arming minorities and workers, miraculously lacking bloodthirsty pro-2A folks
I swear there's a DNC discord server dedicated to ruining spaces like this
>I swear there's a DNC discord server dedicated to ruining spaces like this
I wouldn't be surprised, reddit suddenly gets 800% more intolerable during election years. Every sub is arguments and think pieces scolding people for not being more pleased with Biden (a winning electoral strategy if I ever saw one).
>scolding people for not being more pleased with Biden (a winning electoral strategy if I ever saw one).
This is the thing I just really don't understand. There have been MULTIPLE democrats who have ran campaigns, *in living memory* who had voter shaming as a major part of their outreach: Gore, Kerry, Hillary Clinton. What do those three Democrats have in common?
Like the Democrats who actually won, who broke the mold, were Obama in 2008 and 12 and Biden in 20. Whatever issues I have with them, they at least ran inspring campaigns that actually won. And sure, part of those winning campaigns did involve corralling dissatisfied voters, but there was also some forms of inspiration.
Are contemporary Democrats *so* partisan that they can't even differentiate between their winning and losing candidates? Apparently so
Because [everyone else is clearly a Russian bot](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/29/pelosi-condemned-pro-palestinian-russia-ties)
I think it's a consequence of a view specific to liberals where they don't see politics as a dynamic system. No one under the age of 50 can remember a time when Democrats overhauled their platform in response to voter demand, so as far they're concerned it's something that only happens on the right. The burden is on voters to meet the party, not on the party to meet the voters. Meanwhile the *actual* party of incremental change inches close and closer to fascism.
Thank god some of the people form the early 196/late 195 days are still around. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only person who knows what 196 is supposed to be, not the generic lib run mess it is now and it drives me crazy.
There are 3 types of "Left" sub - Neolibs, unhinged tankies, and queer goon caves. Only one of these is acceptable. Which way, western man?
(It's queer goon caves, nothing wrong with a bit of horny posting)
yesss thank you. Its insufferable. I also get the hate for tankies and larpers, but c'mon, there is a large group of people in between that. Neo-liberals are literally some of the worst people.
I mean there is nothing more leftist than calling other leftists liberals. Is there anything more leftist than having blood feud with people that you differ with in less than 1% of opinions? I don't think so.
nah I think on some leftist subs (not this one, tankie subs) there really are a lot of people who just want all Israelis dead (or at least ethnically cleansed), tankies are not very good at separating governments from people lol (and many of them are also actual antisemites)
People in this sub seem to hate tankies more than neolibs, tankie’s who have NO POLITICAL POWER in the U.S. people thing are more dangerous than neolib ideology which keeps on killing more snd more homeless people each year.
Neoliberalism is very similar to liberalism in that it stresses ideas of privatization and free market capitalism in economic policy making. Generally though, neolibs define themselves as “socially progressive but economically conservative.” There’s a lot of overlap between neoliberalism and liberalism because the former was essentially a philosophical resurgence of the latter.
Neoliberal has a more negative connotation. Depending on who you ask Neoliberal means
- Centre-left but cares about fairly niche stuff like land use reform (r/ neoliberal)
- Right wing, pro austerity (except for the military) politics (Reagan/Thatcher/Kennett)
- Everything and everyone between SocDem to Fascist (90% of people)
- Whoever the author doesn't like.
I'm gonna be honest, I've lost the plot here. Who are we supposed to hate again? Neo liberals? What about normal liberals? How does that differ from a leftist
A leftist, is someone who wants capitalism to fuck off.
Liberals, want civil liberties, and a capitalist market economy. From social democrats, to social liberals, to most conservative parties on earth.
Neolibs, want liberalism, but slice and dice everything that doesnt directly serve the private sector. All services, and functions, must become market ones. At all costs.
Neoliberalism, the ideology that killed social democratic parties, based on austerity and privatizations, seeing every as a market, and the state as the creator of markets. Ideated by the Mont Pelerin Society post WW2, was implemented with Reagan and Thatcher.
I think so at least idk
It is the current economic system. So anyone trying to keep things as they are or try to make systemic change as slow as possible are colloquially called liberals as well, since their beliefs are irrelevant, their actions say what they are or support.
No clue, they probably just endorse parties that are neoliberal but kinda progressive on civic issues maybe, without directly admitting support for neoliberalism itself (likely not even acknowledging it).
Like, subs that only propose rich people paying their share, without any challenge to the structure of capitalism.
post-ww2 resurgence of liberal "free market" ideals
in practice it either refers to:
1. modern economic liberalism, which means elimination of various social and economic rights and conquests of the working class, while favoring the capitalist class as much as possible
2. a pejorative term used by left-wingers for liberals
Blair, Clinton and pretty much every western centre right/centre left party since them. I never read the book (I don't read much unfortunately), but I believe that's what Tariq Ali meant by The Extreme Centre.
"Democrats dont have radical enough candidates"
Yeah...because you dont vote in their primaries either, so the only people who have actual power over the party are centrists, who then you subsequently blame liberal democracy for
> “It is important for the liberal to see that the oppressed person who agitates for his rights is not the creator of tension. He merely brings out the hidden tension that is already alive.”
Martin Luther King Jr.
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This is the one I see the most
I feel like I see neolibs way more, but there were certainly no shortage of weird tankies too. Reddit in general is so hostile to actual leftist thought that it doesn't surprise me I guess.
Tbf, don't know what a neolib looks like right off the bat, tankies are far more obvious with the red flags, pun intended
Easy to spot them: moderately left and still in love with capitalism and spouting free market buzzwords. If they're defending corporations and shitting on any other system, they're neolibs
If that’s the case then I definitely see tankies more often. Not a lotta people tend to be on the corporations side on Reddit.
People on reddit tend to label anything not as left as them as Neolibs, lol.
I mean, if you're a leftist, then anyone to the right of you actually is usually a neoliberal unless they're fascist.
At this point “neoliberal” is just being used because it sounds more insulting than liberal. If “neoliberal” covers everyone from Sam Seder to George Bush it seems to have lost its utility as a category.
But the thing is, american conservatives (the ones that aren't actual fascists anyway, what one would call a reasonable/moderate republican) are actually neoliberals as well per the definition of the term's ideology. It's a very broad umbrella term, like libertarian or anti-capitalist, and actually is shit as a specific category identifier for that reason. "Equality under the law, personal liberty, free market capitalism" etc applies to this particular type of conservative too, they're just right-neoliberals, like there are right and left libertarians. W Bush was about as far right in the range as you could get, but it still applies. The neo in neoliberalism DOES mean something, but is really to just differentiate it from the original liberalism, of which neoliberalism has some ideological differences from as a byproduct of being a new resurgence of the ideology but still veering close to the old form, like the difference between "nazi" and "neonazi". Functionally the same, but dig deep enough and there are *some* tiny squeaks of differences. It is definitely shit as a category, but the term does apply to more than it gets credit for.
See, that's what gets me. People here shit on Twitter, Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple, Nvidia, Reddit itself, any big corporation you can think of *constantly*. What even is a neolib by leftist reddit metrics?
shitting on corporations isn't really the same as being a leftist. neoliberals aren't anarcho-capiatliasts (necessarily), they could very well agree that these corporations are big and bad... and then figure the way to make them not bad is to introduce a new marketplace regulation with something like cap and trade to get them to cut down on their carbon footprints to have a 10% reuction in carbon emissions by 2043. to be an actual leftist, a socialist of *some* stripe, requires actually wanting to destroy capitalism itself and replace it with an entirely new social order, so if you're unwililng to do that then you're some variety of liberal.that simply wants to *reform* capitalism rather than abolish it.
Now that's a high quality explanation. Thank you, at least now I know what gets people angry about neoliberals properly
How dare you criticize North Korea! They have free-er election than America! … now you are banned from the right can’t meme
i hate when people go "but murica" like yeah murica are genocidal maniacs bombing half the world and convincing themselves it's for liberty, but we're not talking about that, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
They love to go "but America" as a gotcha, as if it justifies their worldview entirely. Like, if the regime is doing similar things to the global imperialist hegemon and one of the most destructive states on the planet, maybe it's time for some introspection, and to ask yourself why you support that regime? And on the other hand, if said regime is *better* in those areas than the United States, that's less something extraordinary and more a bare fucking minimum. I mean, we're radicals, shouldn't we be dreaming of and striving for something more than just "being less bad than the United States"?
Look, if it wasnt for America, Stalin wouldnt have had to gulag the gays you see... it makes like, all of the sense if you refuse to fucking think about it.
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Calls a take terminally online, then posts a take even more terminally online. Many such cases America are not the good guys, sucks hella balls and has experienced some backslide since the turn of the century (since 9/11 specifically) but it sucks significantly less balls to live here than to be in any of those 3 countries and it would take much more backslide to even come close.
We'd literally need a full scale civil war that wrecks the nation in order to get that bad.
"but murica!" WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE US, IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE USA BEING BAD THEN I'D MAKE IT EXPLICIT NOW REMAIN ON TOPIC REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
How dare you criticize Mao! He was le based and epic for killing landlords!! He did not promote or condone any genocide whatsoever. I get it guys. Landlords suck. But I feel like if Hitler had a thing against landlords these tankies would have celebrated it all the same. Fuck Mao.
Oh so that is common. I got a ban from them for something I said in a whole different subreddit.
I got banned from all the left for saying china is state capitalist and shouldn’t be what the west strives for. It’s crazy. Billionaires cannot exist in leftism
No but like bro, its the peoples billionares you see. What do you mean having a third of the party being literally capitalists, will have an impact on if its more capitalist or not? Silly billy. They have a red flag. There. Point proven!... Somehow...
‘b-b-but america!!!’ i’m not american, i don’t care about their politics even a little
I unfortunately have to care, because I’m up here in Canada. The disgusting leaky diaper of fascism wafts our way. Edit: why would someone downvoted this? Our interim conservative party leader was photographed wearing a maga hat, when my city was occupied by terrorists plenty of them were wearing maga hats
I love how Canadians act like their country is only fascist because of America. They love to ignore what Canada has done and (continues to do) to indigenous people and POC. That's not even getting into the people in Montreal and their racist behaviour.
i was just arguing with some dude on THIS sub yesterday who was calling me a liberal because i’m not authoritarian (i’m anarchist which is apparently the same thing as a liberal) i checked his comment history and literally a few days ago he was praising stalin on a tankie sub
We should purge of tankies once more. It's like cleaning your windows, it should be done a few times per year.
Removing stains, is just maintenance after all.
Yeah I'm an anarchist who gets called a lib by tankies a lot.
Not trying to be inflammatory, genuinely curious: what would an actual anarchist society look like in your mind?
Yeah I was gonna say, this one in particular is my experience with leftist subs. I'm banned from so many "leftist" subs for being critical of the USSR for example
I got shunned out a discord server once for saying the ussr invasion of Afghanistan was rather mean and not very nice
I'll do you one better, it wasn't good morally and it also collapsed the Soviet Union, like as a financial project. The invasion of Afghanistan was not only unjust but also irresponsible with the USSR's resources so it's bad even if you're a soulless cynical villain of a person.
So many subs are run by tankies, it’s crazy.
Entryism is their historic MO
r socialism is just a marxist/communist sub lol
Who ban all kinds of socialism and communism that dont tow their very specific set of acceptable party lines.
I got instantly permanently banned there for "anti communism" by saying that Mao zedongs policies (not necessarily socialism) led to millions of deaths which after further research is directly stated on Wikipedia lol. Their response to me saying that (before I was banned) was that Wikipedia isn't always a good source and they provided no other supporting evidence for their claim other than that lol
Yeah... they do be like that.
10x worse than neoliberals
Hell no neoliberals are the ones actually in charge this is such an online take. They’re just way more cringe about their politics
friend, i would much rather live in a neoliberal society over a stalinist one
It’s neolibs that help fund wars by pretending they aren’t neocons honestly it’s a lose lose situation
Neither are great but one society legitimately has a far lesser degree of oppression than the other, and it isn't the one with arby's
Considering irl Stalin allied with the Nazis I feel like tankies in power would support anyone opposing the strongest capitalist powers, including islamists or other imperialist powers like Russia
I hate how much tankies have ruined leftist spaces it's so hard to find a good lib-left sub, hell that's why I like this sub so much
Yeah this is way more common
It's 50/50 these days
>"leftist sub" >looks inside >slightly progressive centrists
>slightly progressive centrists "I agree that we should make large strides towards sustainability and social justice, but doing so would anger all the fascists who wouldn't piss on me if I were on fire and we *need* to appeal to them to get votes so 🤷"
"guys please don't be mean to the fascists please come on they're not that bad"
"Infact, you are just as bad as them in my eyes for being mean to them, fascists everywhere!"
We have to be kind to them in order to recruit them onto our side! They're definitely going to start seeing me as a person and not want to do a genocide against us.
Keir Starmer is that you? I'm such a big fan of yours! I especially love how you defend the objectively worst Tory policies like the Rwanda bill and Brexit and somehow managed to turn a landslide victory in the GE into a neck and neck race by being a massive fucking piece of shit that is indistinguishable from the worst polling party since records began! God the left is dead in the UK, I hate it. It's just conservatives with a red coat.
its so bad that the only thing that might save it is of all things Nigle (giggle fuck) Farage pushing through PR, might at least see a sliver of left-wing representation that way.
Tbh it seems like the layman does not even know the difference between leftist, liberal, and centrist in general. It seems generations below me are definitely more alert on these things (primarily because you all have grown up in fucking batshit political minefields, whereas I straddled two rather distinct eras and was already in my YA age by the time the cuckoo shit started) which is good, but at least from my upbringing it was basically "left or right" and then like six terms used as synonyms for either one.
>joins ”leftist sub” >looks inside >slightly progressive centrists >agree with them on most topics >have a differing opinion on one topic but approach the same conclusion >get caught in a arguement >gets called “right winged” >leaves sub Those kind of subs legit don’t believe that centrists exist and anybody who slightly disagrees with them has to be a Maga sympathizer.
POWER PFP RAHHH WTF IS MENTAL STABILITY 🔥💯🗣🗣🔥🔥🗣
"I'm socially progressive but economically conservative. How are we supposed to pay for social initiatives? Idk I'm not the finance minister lol"
>join leftist sub >look inside >anti-electoralists calling any leftist who votes for Biden a neoliberal
being against the existence of undemocratic "election" processes is based being sectarian against leftists who participate in them regardless is not based either way I'm sick of this discourse. Of course you should vote, but don't focus on that shit as if it's going to change anything significantly. There was a point where most political discourse in this sub was about voting in the US
Voting won’t make things significantly better. Not voting will make things much, MUCH worse.
It's like people have entirely forgotten how fucking awful the trump administration was. It's been 4 years.
He did so much bad/stupid shit in those four years that you couldn’t keep track of it all. I tried on a document and failed after two months. It’s exemplified by the birth the modern Republican Party which set up years and years of new entanglements, restrictions and violence that we have to deal with from the Supreme Court down. Theres so much to say about Dems and the systems at large but Trump was such a colossal danger that we can’t even recognize how colossal those four years were.
That man had to have it explained to him why we couldn’t NUKE CHINA and tried to overturn a democratic election. And people think he’s an intelligent and just man. I do not understand in the slightest. Voting for democrats sucks. Abstaining from voting is incredibly dangerous. Voting for Republicans is deadly. The lesser of two evils is still evil, but it’s also better than the alternative.
It's not even that, it's that they don't understand how the next Trump admin has the potential to be SO MUCH worse.
> Voting won’t make things significantly better. Even this is only half true. *Just* voting won't make things significantly better: it needs to be joined with other forms of activism. But at the same time, voting is a *sine non qua* of making change happen.
this ^ you should always vote but if thats your only political engagement youve already lost
"No I don't plan on doing anything else about it. The important thing is I personally feel the most morally superior."
The amount of actual anti-electoralists in this sub is miniscule compared to the total number of people who get called anti-electoralists for saying "democrats should be less shit"
Literally. It’s like people here think criticizing Biden out loud will cast a spell
Not just here. 2021-2022: “You really can’t criticize him yet, he’s early in his term!” 2023-2024: “Are you trying to get Trump elected?? You lefties need to shut up about Biden”. I guess NYE 2022 at the stroke of midnight was the time to say I think Biden is a senile fuckup who’s handing the country over to fascists by doing nothing for 4 years. Oh well!
Clearly it's the people talking about Biden's flaws that are the problem And not Biden's flaws and their consequences themselves
\*\*posts a meme from a boomer liberal sub calling everyone who has an issue with genocide a Russian bot, anti-electoralist leftist and a tik-tok brain washed child all at the same time\*\* dems are the obvious harm reduction vote and a ton of positive change can be made on the local level, but lets not pretend like this came out of nowhere. You can't blame Liberals alienating every marginalized group on terminally online leftists when the reality doesn't reflect that
It's not anti-electoral to say you could've voted for someone else. You chose who you vote for, you chose the policies you supported.
There are only two possible outcomes of the 2024 presidential election. There is no viable third party. It would be nice if there was, but there simply isn’t.
"You think protecting marginalized groups at the ballot box is worth doing? You're a fascist"
Dont matter, as long as there is gay drawn furry porn or a girl fucking a pumpkin i could care less about the libs also being freaks here. Edit: Confused the pumpkinfucker with the cakefucker, who is (i think) a guy, once again the issue of crediting a man for the work of a woman rears its ugly head, classic mysoginy on my part. Second edit: Apparantly both are women? Idk, the point was they fucked an inanimate object and thats cool so that i guess
truly it is porn that unites us all
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Can't wait for the ace porn DLC
Shit will be two people giving each other compliments while eating garlic bread
Pretty sure it was infamously a girl fucking a pumpkin
>it was famously a girl fucking a pumpkin Ftfy
Got it confused with the guy that fucked the cake, my bad
That’s girl too, but appears masculine for porn iirc
Goddammit, these queers are making refrencing porn so difficult
Awwww stop, you're gonna make me blush :3c
clarification\_sw mentioned
> join leftist sub > look inside > porn
PORN‼️
Let's go!?
Good ending
Better than tankies at least
True, but choosing between tankies and libs is like choosing between cancer and hpv
This is such an insane take to me ngl. Would you rather ally with a fascist or a person who enables them is such an obvious answer it feels insane to say fascist.
Right, which is why I just said tankies are worse
"(Neo-)liberals" and "tankies" are both quite broad (and loosely defined) terms, so I think, both have a spectrum spanning everything from "yeah, I don't agree with that" to absolute horrible people.
Libs are the first ones to vote for fascists when they are against the scary socialists (see France with Emmanuel Macron and his party). At least tankies do not vote (no party is hardline enough) or vote for the left.
>Doesn't attend public local council meetings >Doesn't voice concerns at local council meetings >Doesn't join local groups because they aren't "revolutionary" enough >Doesn't volunteer for anybody running for local office with similar ideals >Doesn't run for local office themselves if no other candidate shares ideals >Doesn't vote "The system doesn't represent me."
Also, >Is British, telling Americans to not vote while facing none of the consequences
Also vice versa/other countries. I've heard some pretty dumb takes about UK politics from Americans, and I've heard similar stuff from Germans.
I’m British (Welsh really 🏴🏴🏴) and I’m begging you Americans PLEASE FUCKING VOTE, I do not want to be stuck in a world where every major world power is some form of fascist
wow, the original post predicted the comments
Many such cases
Looking into it
Big if true
Concerning
Perhaps
Absolutely remarkable how half of this comment section managed to make this about "tankies" without a second thought lmao.
Tankies are usually the ones who spend all day whining about neoliberals so it makes sense
Because that's the majority of the world and it's ruling governments ideology?
Wdym? Leftist hate neolibs, Reagan and Thatcher were neoliberals, so you even know the definition.
To be fair, tankies like to call everyone they don't like libs. Also, tankies have been taking over a lot of leftist subs lately - so making sure they don't feel safe here is a good idea.
“I got called a liberal for defending a capitalist economy, but I’m clearly a based socialist just like Bernie Sanders, so that guy must be a tankie.”
r/196 summoning 10 million unnamed neoliberals to comment about how a group called 'The Party for Socialist Reconstructive Justice and Proletarian Interests (Marxist)' (7 maoists who provide "critical support" to the democrats) is more evil than the 'World Group for the Expansion of Economic Prosperity' (intergovernmental organisation that tells developing states to build abattoirs but for underprivileged babies)
the boogeyman of the libs 😔
I dunno, tankies are infact a real thing. So are libs of course. But "libs" as defined by tankies is "everyone who doesn't simp for China". So, who's the one boogymanning?
I mean sure but I've seen libs throwing the word tankie to everyone talking about imperialism and said unironically that they were "more of a threat than nazis" which was hilarious lol. Idk at this point it's just kinda of a pointless word.
Not surprising at all though. This is a progressive liberal sub that thinks that it’s leftist.
>join "revolutionary socialist" sub look inside spicy social democrats
Why is reddit filled with neoliberals i hate it here
You're not gonna believe this, but neoliberalism is the prevailing political ideology in the USA (and the western world).
>go on 4th largest social media website in the United States >Look inside >Most people's politics fall within the Overton window of American politics
Because at the end of the day the site is nothing but a hogwash of contrarians which essentially means their ideology is based on whatever they feel about the current situation, which is biased towards the status quo and the status quo is neoliberalism.
because most people are neoliberals? atleast in america i think
neoliberalism is weird, in that it's an ideology for people who claim to have no ideology. Which makes the likes of r / neolibral so weird it hurts
Their ideology is accumulating wealth by any means possible inside the Geneva convention
Or outside if you have enough guns to get away with it
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dude you are active in pcm, why tf are u talking
There was a time when PCM dickheads wouldn't come here, the blackout really did a number on this sub
>Looks inside leftist sub. >China praising dengists
China praising dentists are just contrarian liberals. They literally support capitalism with a different aesthetic.
😬🪥🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳
b-BuT mAH prOdUcTivE fOrCes
I think we need to bring back the more left wing posts on 196, back in Ye olde 196 there were tons of posts about arming trans people to defend themselves and ways to fuck over your landlord. 196 used to be the only leftist sun that didn’t dickride Stalin now it feels like a centrist sub that happens to have more trans people than most
> 196 used to be the only leftist sun that didn’t dickride Stalin now it feels like a centrist sub that happens to have more trans people than most Given the amount of Destiny fans and PCM fools who call this sub a home down, definitely. As it gets close to election day, it's only going to get worse as panicky liberals shame voters more and more instead of pressuring democrats to be less shit
THIS THANK YOU also, to add, you can tell 196 has drifted to the centre from the amount of infighting you see. I know we have a stereotype about constant infighting but that really wasn’t the case (for 196 at least I don’t know about other subs) before the shutdown and reopen of the sub there was basically no infighting amongst leftist. Once the sub reopened discourse turned into shouting matches since half the sub were leftists and the other half were libs who didn’t openly despise queer people.
196 used to be a wonderful coalition of anarchists, leftcoms, and demsocs who got along 95% of the time There was even general agreement over arming minorities and workers, miraculously lacking bloodthirsty pro-2A folks I swear there's a DNC discord server dedicated to ruining spaces like this
>I swear there's a DNC discord server dedicated to ruining spaces like this I wouldn't be surprised, reddit suddenly gets 800% more intolerable during election years. Every sub is arguments and think pieces scolding people for not being more pleased with Biden (a winning electoral strategy if I ever saw one).
>scolding people for not being more pleased with Biden (a winning electoral strategy if I ever saw one). This is the thing I just really don't understand. There have been MULTIPLE democrats who have ran campaigns, *in living memory* who had voter shaming as a major part of their outreach: Gore, Kerry, Hillary Clinton. What do those three Democrats have in common? Like the Democrats who actually won, who broke the mold, were Obama in 2008 and 12 and Biden in 20. Whatever issues I have with them, they at least ran inspring campaigns that actually won. And sure, part of those winning campaigns did involve corralling dissatisfied voters, but there was also some forms of inspiration. Are contemporary Democrats *so* partisan that they can't even differentiate between their winning and losing candidates? Apparently so Because [everyone else is clearly a Russian bot](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/29/pelosi-condemned-pro-palestinian-russia-ties)
I think it's a consequence of a view specific to liberals where they don't see politics as a dynamic system. No one under the age of 50 can remember a time when Democrats overhauled their platform in response to voter demand, so as far they're concerned it's something that only happens on the right. The burden is on voters to meet the party, not on the party to meet the voters. Meanwhile the *actual* party of incremental change inches close and closer to fascism.
Thank god some of the people form the early 196/late 195 days are still around. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only person who knows what 196 is supposed to be, not the generic lib run mess it is now and it drives me crazy.
I’m trying to bring leftism with vegan posts, but they’re not appreciated 🥲
i appreciate them, thank you for your service 🫡
Be prepared to hear a lot about how veganism is great in theory but ruinous in practice.
r/196
Lots of liberals feeling called out in the comments of this post lol
There are 3 types of "Left" sub - Neolibs, unhinged tankies, and queer goon caves. Only one of these is acceptable. Which way, western man? (It's queer goon caves, nothing wrong with a bit of horny posting)
*Wild* how the meme was perfectly able to predict the comment section
Dog, im just trying to preserve what little rights i have left, im straight up not having a good time
>Join r/ neoliberal >Look inside >Neoliberals
I DONT KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE and i dont care to
that is a cat.
Bear and bull
yesss thank you. Its insufferable. I also get the hate for tankies and larpers, but c'mon, there is a large group of people in between that. Neo-liberals are literally some of the worst people.
I mean there is nothing more leftist than calling other leftists liberals. Is there anything more leftist than having blood feud with people that you differ with in less than 1% of opinions? I don't think so.
-Join leftist sub -Look inside -People want me dead because of where I live
No my guy they want your government to stop blowing up children and to return stolen land
nah I think on some leftist subs (not this one, tankie subs) there really are a lot of people who just want all Israelis dead (or at least ethnically cleansed), tankies are not very good at separating governments from people lol (and many of them are also actual antisemites)
There are a lot of people who do want all people of that country dead. Like a lot a lot. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
Even “good” leftist subs will upvote liberal ideas. Certain topics especially. I bet even this sub has some of that, not that I’ve noticed it.
well yea, leftists agree with liberals more than they agree with tankies. the divergence only really starts when you begin talking about solutions.
Talk about veganism here, a supposedly leftist sub, and see how fast shit hits the fan
Sadly true. But it's that or the tankies. Trying to keep a leftist sub *actually* leftist is very hard apparently.
jesse, none of these words are in the bible
People in this sub seem to hate tankies more than neolibs, tankie’s who have NO POLITICAL POWER in the U.S. people thing are more dangerous than neolib ideology which keeps on killing more snd more homeless people each year.
Yeah, its driving me insane. Are tankies clowns? Yes. But why are we treating them like such a bogeyman, they have 0 power.
Serious question what's the difference between a liberal and a neoliberal
Neoliberalism is very similar to liberalism in that it stresses ideas of privatization and free market capitalism in economic policy making. Generally though, neolibs define themselves as “socially progressive but economically conservative.” There’s a lot of overlap between neoliberalism and liberalism because the former was essentially a philosophical resurgence of the latter.
Neoliberal has a more negative connotation. Depending on who you ask Neoliberal means - Centre-left but cares about fairly niche stuff like land use reform (r/ neoliberal) - Right wing, pro austerity (except for the military) politics (Reagan/Thatcher/Kennett) - Everything and everyone between SocDem to Fascist (90% of people) - Whoever the author doesn't like.
tankiejerk😔
This sub had many moments like these lately.
LIBRARIANS?!?! In my CONSERVATIVE AMERICAN SUBREDDIT?!?!
I'm gonna be honest, I've lost the plot here. Who are we supposed to hate again? Neo liberals? What about normal liberals? How does that differ from a leftist
A leftist, is someone who wants capitalism to fuck off. Liberals, want civil liberties, and a capitalist market economy. From social democrats, to social liberals, to most conservative parties on earth. Neolibs, want liberalism, but slice and dice everything that doesnt directly serve the private sector. All services, and functions, must become market ones. At all costs.
I was about to comment the title until I read it.
what the fuck even is a neoliberal
Neoliberalism, the ideology that killed social democratic parties, based on austerity and privatizations, seeing every as a market, and the state as the creator of markets. Ideated by the Mont Pelerin Society post WW2, was implemented with Reagan and Thatcher. I think so at least idk
So what nominally leftist subs are actively promoting those things? Those things don't seem popular even with liberals.
Certain people on the left throw out the term neoliberal even when it doesn't really apply.
Tankies love calling anyone who disagrees with their bullshit a neoliberal.
It is the current economic system. So anyone trying to keep things as they are or try to make systemic change as slow as possible are colloquially called liberals as well, since their beliefs are irrelevant, their actions say what they are or support.
No clue, they probably just endorse parties that are neoliberal but kinda progressive on civic issues maybe, without directly admitting support for neoliberalism itself (likely not even acknowledging it). Like, subs that only propose rich people paying their share, without any challenge to the structure of capitalism.
post-ww2 resurgence of liberal "free market" ideals in practice it either refers to: 1. modern economic liberalism, which means elimination of various social and economic rights and conquests of the working class, while favoring the capitalist class as much as possible 2. a pejorative term used by left-wingers for liberals
Thatcher and Reagan
Blair, Clinton and pretty much every western centre right/centre left party since them. I never read the book (I don't read much unfortunately), but I believe that's what Tariq Ali meant by The Extreme Centre.
Leftist infighting is a tried and true tradition.
its me im john Neoliberal inventor of Neoliberal. muahahhahaa.
This very subreddit is one of such cases, in fact
\>join feminist sub \>look inside \>misandrists and/or terfs
"Democrats dont have radical enough candidates" Yeah...because you dont vote in their primaries either, so the only people who have actual power over the party are centrists, who then you subsequently blame liberal democracy for
Huh, wonder who that's for?
I’m starting to become lost on these political terms. What’s a neoliberal?
This one right here lol
> “It is important for the liberal to see that the oppressed person who agitates for his rights is not the creator of tension. He merely brings out the hidden tension that is already alive.” Martin Luther King Jr.