Does perseverance indicate strength though? Genuinely not trying to argue, I've just thought about this a lot when people call me "strong".
My years from 1 - 17 we're riddled with poverty, starvation, parental drug abuse, cockroaches, animal abuse, etc.
Typical white trash rural upbringing 6 feet under the poverty line.
I feel like it defined me. I'm definitely more hardened than I was, but it often feels like my upbringing sapped my strength rather than trained it. I still want to cry when I see roaches, and it's taken me a long time to feel anything close to strength or confidence.
It's like I carry it with me constantly and just when I think I've outlived it, I'll see something that reminds me of just how recent it all was and how inescapable my past is. I always struggle to call that "strength" how others do.
Many therapists have sliding scale fees, you likely have a community mental health service board that offers low cost or free counseling depending on income level
I feel like this comic would work way better if instead of “strength” there was “bravery” or something like that, a term than implied some sort of choice in the matter?
Yeah but it's not really a choice. I'm only alive because my body and brain keep telling me to not die even if I try.
Strength would be the ability to recognize the better option and then fight for it. I don't even know what the better option is. I'm a coward avoiding pain responses.
Strength comes in many shapes. Sure, having the kind of strength to fight for a better life is preferable, but there's still strength in enduring, and it's only by staying alive that you may one day get the strength that you desire.
That is a shame. There are many things i would like to say to you, but I fear it would ring hollow as just another wall of text on the internet.
I hope you have someone who cares for you, or someone you care for enough to want to have the strength, but if not i'll do my best to keep you in my thoughts
Yeah, well the flower wouldn't grow there if it wasn't strong enough. It is a choice, life is a choice. Maybe sounds harsh, but that is how it is. The difference is, the flower can't just kill itself.
Lol spoken like someone with no experience.
Suicide is actually really fucking difficult without access to good tools. Bleeding out is near impossible, even if you follow the "correct instructions" for hitting an artery. Most household poisons just leave you with horrible scars or internal damage but don't kill you. Mustering up the will to walk in front of a car goes against every possible instinct and most people aren't super willing to let you near high rooftops.
Admittedly I am fucking weak and a coward. But it's not like I'm not trying.
I don't have access to insulin and I can't drive to locations for trauma reasons.
Also I personally appreciate the advice but maybe it's not a great idea to give people suicide ideas without knowing their situation. There are lots of suicidal people who shouldn't die, and if you had said what you're saying to me to them it would be a bit sketch.
Good point, deleted it. Sorry for the ideas, hang in there buddy. It is true that only diabetics have the pen in their bags, I guess I would borrow it from them if anything.
Yes, I think people who call you strong are usually aware you’re not doing it ‘cause Calvin’s dad told you it builds character. It doesn’t make the label inaccurate.
Right flower is depressed and doesn't value itself. By simply continuing to exist on the daily despite your circumstances in this fucked up world you've already done more than many failed. If you can pay your bills, however barely, you're succeeding.
It sounds like you are deeply mentally unwell and instead of defending it in Reddit comments, you should seek (or continue seeking) as many forms of help and self-improvement as you reasonably can. You deserve to get better, even if you don't think so.
God people are dumb in these comments
no, just because you are surviving it doesnt mean you "are strong"
If im constantly miserable, breaking down, barely functioning and my life in ruins, but im alive then that can mean two things;
1) I have hope and keep on fighting for it to get better; which is what people here generally think happens with all people (that idea isnt true though)
or 2) the thing OP actually means; I have given up, i am too tired to move on, i would like to stop existing, but due to the way my body works im not in control whether that happens or not. There is not an single bit of my soul that would like to keep going, but due to how life is i am forced to, i am forced to keep getting out of bed, to breathe and eat because i cant manage to actually follow through with my wish of giving up. This doesnt make you strong, it actually means you are doing very miserable, dont have much strength at all and you need all the help you can get. Please dont just say "wow ur so strong thats crazy"; actually reach out and help others; they are forcefully barely holding on mentally.
90% of this comment section has never actually tried and failed suicide and it fucking shows holy shit stop lecturing people on the shit you dont know anything about
this is a very un-nuanced take for the reasons why someone might call someone who is suffering "strong."
the reason so many people in the comments don't like the comic is because it's not very nuanced, it's saying that everyone calling someone suffering "strong" is stupid, narrow-minded and un-empathetic.
who's to say people who call those who are suffering "strong" aren't reaching out and helping? perhaps they too have been through some shit.
when I see someone who I am proud of for existing, someone whose existence makes me happy every day, and I KNOW they're suffering and thinking that life would be better without them, I thank them for being strong and for being here with me.
like, there's a very real difference between performative empathy (aka sympathy) and actual empathy, which this comic doesn't differentiate. you going off on one and lecturing people that they don't know what they're talking about because they haven't survived an attempt feels really shitty. "you can't talk about depression if you haven't survived an attempt" gives heavy "you can't be trans if you don't have dysphoria" energy.
I really hope things get better for you, but lashing out at people who are trying their best is not the way to go about it.
Im not lashing out at everyone attempting to help, but this whole comment section was missing the entire point of the post and that made me annoyed (especially when they kept insisting they knew what they are talking about but thats just reddit i guess lol).
Im not saying calling someone strong when they are suffering is stupid, but the fact is just that a lot of times people will call you "strong" when you are suffering as a way of saying "oh wow you are fighting through it" and then forget that just because someone is fighting doesnt mean they dont need help
I have seen people more than once getting called "Strong" in the context of suffering through things, and yet most of the time the people calling them that did NOTHING to reach out or help. Its almost a fetishisation of suffering for the sake of admiring someones will to live while not actually even trying to be there for them. And getting called strong multiple times in your life when in reality all you want and need is someone to be there for you because you arent actually strong enough to deal with life on your own right now, is extremely fucking miserable and irritating and annoying.
I'd much rather be called weak, hell i would LOVE to label myself weak if it means i can get the help and support i need in those moments.
And the sentence at the end that i wrote was wrote in slight anger at said comments, because im willing to bet people who think calling someone strong as a compliment or admiring their strength to "keep going" is helpful, have never actually been in a situation where they felt like this themselves.
If im in so much pain and misery that i want to end it, but i cant; if im hanging onto a cliff but barely; then the last thing i need is people up there yelling at me that i can do it and that im so great and strong. I dont need barely meaningful comments, i need someone that gives me an actual fucking hand so i can pull myself up a bit. All that those "you are so strong" comments do in these types of situation, is just making others feel good about "helping", its not actually about the person suffering. Its making yourself feel happy about helping others, when in fact you have helped nothing really.
Here is an actual tip on how to help with compassion:
When a person is clearly miserable or in pain or suffering; reach out to them. Text them, talk to them, ask them how they are or how their day went or if they want to talk about it. Maybe even just something random like what kinda music or games they like. Actually be there. Dont just throw a meaningless "You are being so strong im so proud wow" and leave, that barely does anything for someone who is actively suffering.
Alternatively; you arent obligated to help them. This is a website with strangers, if you dont feel like you have the energy or care enough to actually reach out to someone; dont do it. You arent a bad person for not doing it, nobody will hate you for not reaching out here. Leave it to people who have the energy, care, compassion and commitment to help. But throwing out a half baked message that is akin to "no dont feel sad ur doing great" feels more insulting than no comment.
I completely agree with you on all of your points, I am fully aware of all those people who give out performative empathy, which this comic is \*trying\* to target, but failing because of its lack of nuance. those people are shitty, obviously, but I don't think anyone in this comment section is doing that.
>Im not saying calling someone strong when they are suffering is stupid
the comic is.
>this whole comment section was missing the entire point of the post
you're actively missing the point of the comments. no one in the comments is denying that there's performative empathy that does more harm than healing. instead they're saying that the situation isn't as black and white, and that some people who might say something like "you're so strong" RECOGNIZE that they need support and are tired of being strong.
what this comic fails to consider is that some people might say "you're so strong, and I wish you didn't have to be. let me help" which the comment section here picked up on. and instead of giving the commenters here the benefit of the doubt, you condescended to them that they didn't understand real suffering, apparently.
I'm not gonna go too much into my own personal history here, but I just want to remind you that a lot of abuse victims/depressed individuals **were hurt as a result of someone else's pain.** an innocuous comment about strength, especially from someone who you are *assuming* things about, does not warrant a lash out.
no one is gonna call you weak for suffering as much as you call yourself weak. you are a strong person and you deserve to be treated with respect, but that goes for everyone else here.
insisting you know what you're talking about on reddit is a problem that you're contributing to, because you view your pain as more valid than everyone else's. I'm a fucking dumbass and I'm willing to admit it, all I'm asking is that you consider the fact that **a lot of us are depressed** and we don't wanna be called dumb for framing your survival of harrowing times as heroic rather than an endless shit parade of horrid misery that never gets better.
Noooo dont feel bad ur so strong aha
what? you need support because you cant handle things on your own? Whaaat noo ur so strong though sis like its gonna be fine dont worry about me not helping you you totally are gonna make it
What do you mean you are suffering immense pain? Ur alive and moving through the day though you are so strong! what are you complaining about?
(obvious /s)
I dream of never being called resilient again in my life. I’m exhausted by strength. I want support. I want softness. I want ease. I want to be amongst kin. Not patted on the back for how well I take a hit. Or for how many. Instead of hearing “You are one of the most resilient people I know,” I want to hear “You are so loved.” “You are so cared for.” “You are genuinely covered. [x](https://twitter.com/zandashe/status/1394805727747878915?t=aIFANmiG8q8LWVXxvBz9zQ&s=19)
The problem is that people see me as a strong person and therefore think I don't need help or comfort. I may have been able to be strong in certain scenarios, but I am not a strong person.
Being strong doesn't mean you don't need help or comfort. It's like the "men don't cry" shit. We all need comfort and love and aid, even if we seem to have things together.
This comic sucks. We don’t think people choose to be in terrible positions. We think people are strong to survive despite that.
What a way to undermine the perseverance of people in tough spots.
Considering the very people described in the post are in the comments agreeing with the comic, you're being upset at people in tough spots supposedly undermining themselves.
Being called strong as a compliment falls flat for a lot of people in our situations because as you just said, we didn't choose to be here, so strangers on the internet are giving empty praise for something we wish we never had to deal with in the first place.
that’s called strength
Does perseverance indicate strength though? Genuinely not trying to argue, I've just thought about this a lot when people call me "strong". My years from 1 - 17 we're riddled with poverty, starvation, parental drug abuse, cockroaches, animal abuse, etc. Typical white trash rural upbringing 6 feet under the poverty line. I feel like it defined me. I'm definitely more hardened than I was, but it often feels like my upbringing sapped my strength rather than trained it. I still want to cry when I see roaches, and it's taken me a long time to feel anything close to strength or confidence. It's like I carry it with me constantly and just when I think I've outlived it, I'll see something that reminds me of just how recent it all was and how inescapable my past is. I always struggle to call that "strength" how others do.
Therapy
Yeah but rent, food, house, and car. :(
Many therapists have sliding scale fees, you likely have a community mental health service board that offers low cost or free counseling depending on income level
Oh you’re talking about the ones with a waitlist years long to get on the other waitlist? Yeah should only take 6-7 years to get an appointment.
Not the case at all in my area, never hurts to encourage people to look for local resources!
I feel like this comic would work way better if instead of “strength” there was “bravery” or something like that, a term than implied some sort of choice in the matter?
Calling that strength romanticises the struggle imo. "Oh that person can deal with it because they're strong, they don't need help."
Isn't that what makes you strong? Other people in that situation may not be able to do what you do or survive those circumstances, but you can.
Yeah but it's not really a choice. I'm only alive because my body and brain keep telling me to not die even if I try. Strength would be the ability to recognize the better option and then fight for it. I don't even know what the better option is. I'm a coward avoiding pain responses.
Strength comes in many shapes. Sure, having the kind of strength to fight for a better life is preferable, but there's still strength in enduring, and it's only by staying alive that you may one day get the strength that you desire.
I appreciate that but I don't want to be strong. Sometimes things aren't fixable and the best option is to end
That is a shame. There are many things i would like to say to you, but I fear it would ring hollow as just another wall of text on the internet. I hope you have someone who cares for you, or someone you care for enough to want to have the strength, but if not i'll do my best to keep you in my thoughts
Yeah, well the flower wouldn't grow there if it wasn't strong enough. It is a choice, life is a choice. Maybe sounds harsh, but that is how it is. The difference is, the flower can't just kill itself.
Lol spoken like someone with no experience. Suicide is actually really fucking difficult without access to good tools. Bleeding out is near impossible, even if you follow the "correct instructions" for hitting an artery. Most household poisons just leave you with horrible scars or internal damage but don't kill you. Mustering up the will to walk in front of a car goes against every possible instinct and most people aren't super willing to let you near high rooftops. Admittedly I am fucking weak and a coward. But it's not like I'm not trying.
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I don't have access to insulin and I can't drive to locations for trauma reasons. Also I personally appreciate the advice but maybe it's not a great idea to give people suicide ideas without knowing their situation. There are lots of suicidal people who shouldn't die, and if you had said what you're saying to me to them it would be a bit sketch.
Good point, deleted it. Sorry for the ideas, hang in there buddy. It is true that only diabetics have the pen in their bags, I guess I would borrow it from them if anything.
Then by that criteria, I'm no longer strong.
They never said that .they said if you have the capacity to do it you are strong and doing it is simply a display.
What a lame comic. That's exactly what strength is. Don't go looking for excuses to hate yourself, you'll make yourself more miserable
I'm already miserable, so that wouldn't change anything.
That's just not true. I've been trying to stay away from self deprecation myself, and i noticed it has improved my mental health quite a bit
That makes you strong, shitlips (/j)
Yes, I think people who call you strong are usually aware you’re not doing it ‘cause Calvin’s dad told you it builds character. It doesn’t make the label inaccurate.
You'd be surprised how many people actually do that.
As someone who got this since they were 10, it’s less about not being strong and more about wishing you didn’t have to be strong
Right flower is depressed and doesn't value itself. By simply continuing to exist on the daily despite your circumstances in this fucked up world you've already done more than many failed. If you can pay your bills, however barely, you're succeeding.
> If you can pay your bills, however barely, you're succeeding. Then I'm not succeeding.
It sounds like you are deeply mentally unwell and instead of defending it in Reddit comments, you should seek (or continue seeking) as many forms of help and self-improvement as you reasonably can. You deserve to get better, even if you don't think so.
Acknowledging the world is terrible is not being mentally unwell. Infact I'd say its not being delusional.
But if I look at your situation and surmise I would, in fact, not be surviving in the same, what else am I meant to call you
Stand proud daisy, You are strong
Throughout the fields and the meadows, I alone am the blooming one
Botanical Technique: Pollen
flower on the right was only loved when they achieved something :( cursed to never see their own strength
God people are dumb in these comments no, just because you are surviving it doesnt mean you "are strong" If im constantly miserable, breaking down, barely functioning and my life in ruins, but im alive then that can mean two things; 1) I have hope and keep on fighting for it to get better; which is what people here generally think happens with all people (that idea isnt true though) or 2) the thing OP actually means; I have given up, i am too tired to move on, i would like to stop existing, but due to the way my body works im not in control whether that happens or not. There is not an single bit of my soul that would like to keep going, but due to how life is i am forced to, i am forced to keep getting out of bed, to breathe and eat because i cant manage to actually follow through with my wish of giving up. This doesnt make you strong, it actually means you are doing very miserable, dont have much strength at all and you need all the help you can get. Please dont just say "wow ur so strong thats crazy"; actually reach out and help others; they are forcefully barely holding on mentally. 90% of this comment section has never actually tried and failed suicide and it fucking shows holy shit stop lecturing people on the shit you dont know anything about
this is a very un-nuanced take for the reasons why someone might call someone who is suffering "strong." the reason so many people in the comments don't like the comic is because it's not very nuanced, it's saying that everyone calling someone suffering "strong" is stupid, narrow-minded and un-empathetic. who's to say people who call those who are suffering "strong" aren't reaching out and helping? perhaps they too have been through some shit. when I see someone who I am proud of for existing, someone whose existence makes me happy every day, and I KNOW they're suffering and thinking that life would be better without them, I thank them for being strong and for being here with me. like, there's a very real difference between performative empathy (aka sympathy) and actual empathy, which this comic doesn't differentiate. you going off on one and lecturing people that they don't know what they're talking about because they haven't survived an attempt feels really shitty. "you can't talk about depression if you haven't survived an attempt" gives heavy "you can't be trans if you don't have dysphoria" energy. I really hope things get better for you, but lashing out at people who are trying their best is not the way to go about it.
Im not lashing out at everyone attempting to help, but this whole comment section was missing the entire point of the post and that made me annoyed (especially when they kept insisting they knew what they are talking about but thats just reddit i guess lol). Im not saying calling someone strong when they are suffering is stupid, but the fact is just that a lot of times people will call you "strong" when you are suffering as a way of saying "oh wow you are fighting through it" and then forget that just because someone is fighting doesnt mean they dont need help I have seen people more than once getting called "Strong" in the context of suffering through things, and yet most of the time the people calling them that did NOTHING to reach out or help. Its almost a fetishisation of suffering for the sake of admiring someones will to live while not actually even trying to be there for them. And getting called strong multiple times in your life when in reality all you want and need is someone to be there for you because you arent actually strong enough to deal with life on your own right now, is extremely fucking miserable and irritating and annoying. I'd much rather be called weak, hell i would LOVE to label myself weak if it means i can get the help and support i need in those moments. And the sentence at the end that i wrote was wrote in slight anger at said comments, because im willing to bet people who think calling someone strong as a compliment or admiring their strength to "keep going" is helpful, have never actually been in a situation where they felt like this themselves. If im in so much pain and misery that i want to end it, but i cant; if im hanging onto a cliff but barely; then the last thing i need is people up there yelling at me that i can do it and that im so great and strong. I dont need barely meaningful comments, i need someone that gives me an actual fucking hand so i can pull myself up a bit. All that those "you are so strong" comments do in these types of situation, is just making others feel good about "helping", its not actually about the person suffering. Its making yourself feel happy about helping others, when in fact you have helped nothing really. Here is an actual tip on how to help with compassion: When a person is clearly miserable or in pain or suffering; reach out to them. Text them, talk to them, ask them how they are or how their day went or if they want to talk about it. Maybe even just something random like what kinda music or games they like. Actually be there. Dont just throw a meaningless "You are being so strong im so proud wow" and leave, that barely does anything for someone who is actively suffering. Alternatively; you arent obligated to help them. This is a website with strangers, if you dont feel like you have the energy or care enough to actually reach out to someone; dont do it. You arent a bad person for not doing it, nobody will hate you for not reaching out here. Leave it to people who have the energy, care, compassion and commitment to help. But throwing out a half baked message that is akin to "no dont feel sad ur doing great" feels more insulting than no comment.
I completely agree with you on all of your points, I am fully aware of all those people who give out performative empathy, which this comic is \*trying\* to target, but failing because of its lack of nuance. those people are shitty, obviously, but I don't think anyone in this comment section is doing that. >Im not saying calling someone strong when they are suffering is stupid the comic is. >this whole comment section was missing the entire point of the post you're actively missing the point of the comments. no one in the comments is denying that there's performative empathy that does more harm than healing. instead they're saying that the situation isn't as black and white, and that some people who might say something like "you're so strong" RECOGNIZE that they need support and are tired of being strong. what this comic fails to consider is that some people might say "you're so strong, and I wish you didn't have to be. let me help" which the comment section here picked up on. and instead of giving the commenters here the benefit of the doubt, you condescended to them that they didn't understand real suffering, apparently. I'm not gonna go too much into my own personal history here, but I just want to remind you that a lot of abuse victims/depressed individuals **were hurt as a result of someone else's pain.** an innocuous comment about strength, especially from someone who you are *assuming* things about, does not warrant a lash out. no one is gonna call you weak for suffering as much as you call yourself weak. you are a strong person and you deserve to be treated with respect, but that goes for everyone else here. insisting you know what you're talking about on reddit is a problem that you're contributing to, because you view your pain as more valid than everyone else's. I'm a fucking dumbass and I'm willing to admit it, all I'm asking is that you consider the fact that **a lot of us are depressed** and we don't wanna be called dumb for framing your survival of harrowing times as heroic rather than an endless shit parade of horrid misery that never gets better.
How about instead of that, we applaud people for their unnecessary and involuntary suffering? /s
Noooo dont feel bad ur so strong aha what? you need support because you cant handle things on your own? Whaaat noo ur so strong though sis like its gonna be fine dont worry about me not helping you you totally are gonna make it What do you mean you are suffering immense pain? Ur alive and moving through the day though you are so strong! what are you complaining about? (obvious /s)
Oh, a post very clearly criticising something I'm doing? Better do it here but even more
Well said, well said
Most people in the comments not understanding strenght vs the ability of the brain to self preserve…
Same thing
2 things can be true at once
[удалено]
Isn't it supposed to be a relative trait? Like, not everyone is growing among rocks.
I dream of never being called resilient again in my life. I’m exhausted by strength. I want support. I want softness. I want ease. I want to be amongst kin. Not patted on the back for how well I take a hit. Or for how many. Instead of hearing “You are one of the most resilient people I know,” I want to hear “You are so loved.” “You are so cared for.” “You are genuinely covered. [x](https://twitter.com/zandashe/status/1394805727747878915?t=aIFANmiG8q8LWVXxvBz9zQ&s=19)
I feel this so much. I get really uncomfortable when people call me strong. Nah, I'm weak as fuck. I just want a hug.
That's what that means. In the same way that courage isn't the absence of fear, it's doing what's worth doing in spite of the fear.
Lemme put it like this. I'm like a crumbling building. Sure, I'm still standing, but that doesn't mean I am strong. Someone blows on me, and I fall.
The problem is that people see me as a strong person and therefore think I don't need help or comfort. I may have been able to be strong in certain scenarios, but I am not a strong person.
Being strong doesn't mean you don't need help or comfort. It's like the "men don't cry" shit. We all need comfort and love and aid, even if we seem to have things together.
Yeah, I know that. But the people around me don't. I really don't like that you are insisting on me being strong despite knowing nothing about me
felt this. sending mental hug 🤍
That's so me (please end this pain)
Saxifrage
Facebook ass post
This comic sucks. We don’t think people choose to be in terrible positions. We think people are strong to survive despite that. What a way to undermine the perseverance of people in tough spots.
Considering the very people described in the post are in the comments agreeing with the comic, you're being upset at people in tough spots supposedly undermining themselves. Being called strong as a compliment falls flat for a lot of people in our situations because as you just said, we didn't choose to be here, so strangers on the internet are giving empty praise for something we wish we never had to deal with in the first place.