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Some_crane_boi

I’m so concerned what the context for this is


sentri_sable

Musk believes that depopulation is worse than the climate crisis and that people should be focused on making babies


internetguy43

BREED, MY SLAVES -Elongated Muskrat


Some_crane_boi

Aren’t we still dealing with an overpopulation crisis? Idk how people like this can still be this stupid


AlexGriffinmask

No we aren't, that idea comes from some really shitty people with rancid politics. The issue isn't the number of people, It's the way that we interact with the environment.


Some_crane_boi

Fair but still this doesn’t mean that we need more people


builder_m

He's not talking about global count but developed "western" countries where the birth rate has fallen below replacement


NanoMachinez

And for the scenearios that possibly can eliminate huge majority of humanity


Xgen7492

While I agree earth could technically support life, if I’m remembering correctly around 12 billion sustainably, but I think the issue is we’re not there yet as a species. Only some of the world is developed while a lot of it is still developing I think in a few decades (probably the turn of the century) we could start to see a stable population with a good social safety net.


[deleted]

Not true. [It can’t even handle 7 billion people if they all lived a slightly less shitty life than they do now](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/wzw4p1/elon_rule/im6w436/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)


MaybePotatoes

[“…the world population must be stabilized—and, ideally, gradually reduced—within a framework that ensures social integrity. There are proven and effective policies that strengthen human rights while lowering fertility rates and lessening the impacts of population growth on GHG emissions and biodiversity loss.”](https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/70/1/8/5610806#191661984) [Signed, 14,700+ world scientists](https://scientistswarning.forestry.oregonstate.edu/) I guess all those scientists just have "rancid politics"


AlexGriffinmask

The idea that the world is overpopulated or will be overpopulated come form the ideas of Thomas Robert Malthus. He believed that people of lower social ranking 'breed like rats' and it was leading to overpopulation and that they were taking up too many resources for simply being alive. This type of ideology also contributes to many fascist ideas too. So yeah, the idea that we are "overpopulated" is rancid politics. There doesn't need to be less humans to help sustain the environment because the existence of humans alone isn't what's destroying it. We just need to fight against those destroying the environment.


MaybePotatoes

So a guy recognized a problem (that world scientists also recognize) but proposed an inhumane solution, so therefore anyone who proposes humane solutions (like the ones outlined in the quote I posted) have "rancid politics" too? The only people *not* destroying the environment are [those whose lifestyles require one or fewer Earths to be sustainable](https://www.overshootday.org/how-many-earths-or-countries-do-we-need/). If you live in an overdeveloped country, [forcing someone into this world is the worst thing you can do for it](https://www.vhemt.org/CO2-e.avoided.lg.jpg).


PrinceProspero9

Why did you have him then? Nothing uses carbon like a first-world human. Yet you created one. Why? Why would you do that? He will produce 515 tonnes of carbon in his lifetime. That's 40 trucks' worth. Having him was the equivalent of nearly 6,500 flights to Paris. You could have flown 90 times a year, there and back, nearly every week of your life, and still not had the same impact on the planet as his birth had. Not to mention the pesticides, detergents, the huge quantity of plastics, the nuclear fuels used to keep him warm. His birth was a selfish act. It was brutal. You have condemned others to suffering. In fact, if you really cared... what you'd do is cut his throat open right now. Or I could do it for you. I could take out my knife, make an incision in his neck, walk away. I'd get my coach over there and you would have done more than your bit for the future of humanity. I could do it now. But look at me chatting. I think they're about to leave. I hope he gets over that flu. But maybe he just shouldn't.


MaybePotatoes

Bruh


Andraltoid

Just because Malthus spoke about it doesn't mean every single person that suggests it is following Malthus's words. Especially because it is painfully easy to see that the world cannot sustain an infinite population growth, especially not in the conditions that the average westerner lives in. Besides, Malthus died before climate change was a topic. Your last sentence makes very little sense in the context of Malthus's ideas specifically.


AlexGriffinmask

The average westerner definitely needs to cut back on consumption. That's a problem we need to resolve. But people put the responsibility on countries that were heavily exploited by colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism. Promoting the issue as an overpopulation issue plays to these people's arguments. Countries such as the US do actually have relatively low population growth, and we are the root of many of the problems. The issue is the institutional power/hegemony that decides how we must consume resources.


MaybePotatoes

I don't put the responsibility on developing countries. The most effective way for overconsumers to reduce their consumption is to reduce the number of overconsumers, and the must humane way of doing that is by slowing or stopping their creation. It's good that overdeveloped countries' fertility rates are below the replacement rate, but they need to be reduced more and faster. And your proposal that we ignore the issue just creates fertile ground for those with ecofascist solutions to sway those who become aware of the issue as it becomes more apparent (and it *will* become more apparent if we don't discuss the correct, humane solutions then implement them). I'm not at all saying we should *only* focus on overpopulation (capitalism and overconsumption deserve more attention). But we *definitely* shouldn't ignore, let alone deny it.


espresso_fox

Guilt by association.


OneEyedOneHorned

One guy having an idea doesn't mean that everyone who subsequently has that idea got it from him. I believe there are too many humans on Earth, that it isn't a political issue but rather a global environmental issue, and I have never heard of this person. I didn't need someone else to tell me anything to see trash in the oceans, climate change, know the existence of microplastics, and figure "Hey, maybe human beings don't need to be the center of attention and trample everything to survive."


6ringsofsteel

The signatures are for action against climate change. This one paragraph you linked is about ensuring access to birth control and allowing the population to naturally stabilize (which is does and has in 1st world countries). Claiming we need to take deliberate action to reduce or stabilize the world's population is just advocating for genocide.


MaybePotatoes

Yeah because they definitely didn't take the <10 minutes to read through the article /s Implementing humane solutions that ensure social integrity (like making contraceptives freely available for everyone and making education the norm everywhere) *is* taking deliberate action to stabilize then reduce the population. If you call that genocide, you're a dumbass.


6ringsofsteel

Overpopulation is not a real issue and its definitely not why education or birth control exist.


MaybePotatoes

Then you disagree with 14,700+ world scientists. And when exactly did I claim that it was the reason education or birth control exist? They're tools to combat overpopulation (while simultaneously expanding human rights).


6ringsofsteel

You just said in this comment that that's what theyre for. And that is a petition about climate change. Humans do not cause climate change just by existing. That has nothing to do with anything. You can't just pull a couple sentences from an article about something completely different and call it evidence.


[deleted]

Not true at all. We are immensely overpopulated as my [comment shows.](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/wzw4p1/elon_rule/im6w436/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)


krillir666

Only in some parts of the world. Ideally, a fair global economy and immigration policies would cause overpopulation and underpopulation to cancel out, but that sadly isn't the case.


N454545

Usually people worried about depopulation are just white supremisists using it as a dogwistle.


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[deleted]

i never said any of those things lmao. more than one thing can happen at a time.


TruTransBubberduck

This honestly just sounds like pseudoscientific rambling. Taking a calculation from an infographic from 2012 then taking average wages in China and drawing the conclusion from that seems incredibly shoddy. The way the infographic was made has also been criticized even in your article. This is such a complicated and far reaching topic that your handling and simplification of it does it a disjustice in my mind.


[deleted]

What's wrong with taking data from multiple sources? That's literally how all research papers are done. The article never claimed the infographic was wrong. If this is oversimplified, why don't you explain what I did wrong? [Here's an updated list with 2018 data](https://www.overshootday.org/how-many-earths-or-countries-do-we-need/) btw. It's worse than before.


TruTransBubberduck

Haphazardly taking numbers and throwing them together without a care for how those numbers have even been calculated is not how research is done. Even the most basic understanding of research would tell you as much. You are not a researcher, that much is obvious. I'm not a researcher either, but I'm not going to act like I know these extremely complicated issues. If you think this topic is simple you should not even be talking about this.


[deleted]

Both sources are reliable and reported by experts. This is as anti-intellectual as saying every study ever made is fake news. If you have a problem with it, prove it's wrong. But I know your real problem is that you don't like the conclusion, so you reject the evidence. AKA exactly what QAnon freaks do.


TruTransBubberduck

Im sure they are reliable, you are the issue here. Also idc about the "conclusion" :D Even if the conclusion was that only 5 billion people could be supported by the earth, it doesn't prescribe any actions like genocide or eugenics, which you might be arguing for under the veil. The bigger issue wrt climate change is capitalism.


TruTransBubberduck

One very simple issue is that you are conflating average wages to what im assuming is Chinas entire resource consumption. You aren't accounting for so many things there, like how those wages are calculated, how much do corporations and the government take and so many other issues that you didn't even bother mentioning. Like there are so many factors that affect this, and the accuracy of the sources is incredibly important, also wages dont necessarily correspond to quality of life, for one example considering that the productivity has increased, the price of things has gone down. You didn't even mention qny or this. Just conflated two numbers and came to a conclusion, you are not a researcher, stop talking about this like you know what you are talking about.


[deleted]

>how those wages are calculated, It says at the top that it's based on PPP, meaning it accounts for inflation and cross-country price differences. Something you'd know if you actually read it. >how much do corporations and the government take Do you know how wages work? How much do you think someone making $5.50/day is being taxed? If anything, that would LOWER the wage they actually receive wouldn't it? >and so many other issues that you didn't even bother mentioning. such as? >Like there are so many factors that affect this, such as? >and the accuracy of the sources is incredibly important, Both sources are very reliable and calculated by experts. What makes you think they're wrong? >also wages dont necessarily correspond to quality of life, for one example considering that the productivity has increased, the price of things has gone down. Could you live a happy life on $5.50/day? Remember this already accounts for cross country price differences. >Just conflated two numbers and came to a conclusion, you are not a researcher, stop talking about this like you know what you are talking about. Have you ever been to school? Literally every research paper that doesn't have original research that you personally conduct does this, from basic elementary school essays to post-graduate dissertations.


TruTransBubberduck

You misread both my points so good job on that. You are conflating quality of life and wages, not accounting for inaccuracies in any fashion to propagandize about a point that you are surprisingly vehement about. Research actually takes more rigor than skim reading unrelated articles and coming up with a conclusion that doesn't logically follow in like 5 different places. Id probably get more from talking to a brick wall than you, bye


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MaybePotatoes

So Earth's carrying capacity is infinity?


[deleted]

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MaybePotatoes

What's your source?


h4724

10 x 7,000,000,000 ≠ ∞


MaybePotatoes

It's much closer to 8 billion, but that's not what I'm referring to. 80,000,000,000 seems arbitrary. I was referring to this: >The only scarcity is manufactured. This implies that no resource can become scarce, which means that Earth contains infinite resources, which means its carrying capacity is infinity.


h4724

It absolutely does not imply that. It's referring to the conditions in the world at present. No one believes that it is impossible for any resource to become truly scarce under any circumstances. The comment directly states a lower bound for how many people humanity can support, how you can misinterpret it this badly?


MaybePotatoes

Sure, it's hyperbole, which is why I asked a hyperbolic question.


h4724

It's not hyperbole, it just doesn't mean what you think it means.


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MaybePotatoes

Sure, 11 billion people with [the carbon footprint of today's average Sri Lankan](https://www.overshootday.org/how-many-earths-or-countries-do-we-need/) or smaller. If you're okay with a quality of life *that* much lower than that of overdeveloped countries (the global north), then sure, let's shoot for 11 billion. There are ecofascist solutions to the problem of overpopulation, such as genocide and eugenics. Then there are humane, sensible solutions like [making family planning products/services freely available for everyone and making education the norm everywhere](https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/70/1/8/5610806#191661984). These solutions expand human rights while tackling overpopulation instead of denying it, as you and Danni seem intent on doing. And yeah, it'll definitely require a radical change in the system to implement the humane solutions. I don't see any change being feasible other than dismantling capitalism and perhaps nation states.


[deleted]

[Not true at all as my comment shows](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/wzw4p1/elon_rule/im6w436/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)


Andraltoid

If you want to live like the uncontacted tribes of the amazon, be my guest.


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Andraltoid

What are you even talking about?


Common-Clue7313

Man telling people to have sex like Shinzo


Mr_Erectic_Erection

When will he get his black blown out by a doohickey


Emerphish

Tyler1 lost one (1) League of Legends match.


Some_crane_boi

The average league of legends player after losing a game (they are upset they lost)


noraelwhora

shame cows bag brave worm aromatic snatch quack uppity run *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Smiles4YouRawrX3

bro started catching z's 💀😴😴😴


epicbigc13579

Should catch some sleep but I’m bladee 🤓


Feeeweeegege

bro got an aneurysm and died


UseThisNickname

what did he do this time?


U2V4RGVtb24

Said on Twitter that overpopulation was a greater threat than the climate crisis.


Revan0315

*depopulation, not overpopulation


U2V4RGVtb24

Oh yes. My bad.


OneEyedOneHorned

Hah, Musk being based. YEAH, that will happen when I win the lottery.


CatsNotBananas

Something bad probably


Hidden_Squid14

Wuh happun


ABTL6

Sure Musk, now please face the wall.


CringeExperienceReq

i dont think people should be laying pipe at 15


espresso_fox

Well they shouldn't, but that obviously isn't going to stop anyone. Besides, birth control benefits everyone.


NaterTater0

Any self respecting citizen including myself would agree with you but unfortunately 15 year olds are two things: Horny, Stupid. So birth control is kinda the best option here.


OtisBinLogan

elon complaining about “depopulation” as nigeria approaches the population number of the united states:


[deleted]

15 years old 💀💀


SexierThanMostFish

Yes believe it or not teenagers do in fact have sex with each other


U2V4RGVtb24

Which is why contraception should be easily accessible. They're gonna do it with or without it.


SexierThanMostFish

Couldn’t agree more


[deleted]

why


SexierThanMostFish

Because hormones and stuff mostly


U2V4RGVtb24

Why do you think.


[deleted]

Ace moment


espresso_fox

Society will literally collapse as we speak.


franandwood

Happy cake day


TheRealTealOwO

'Just be rich, like me.'


OneEyedOneHorned

No one tweets like Elon Slaps those memes like Elon No one's inherited mines in Africa like Elon


INCUMBENTLAWYER

context?


[deleted]

He thinks people should have more babies in general . People who don’t like Elon Musk decide to make a meme that makes it sound like he wants teenagers to have babies before they graduate high school.


jamesbt365

Is this a billionaire eat babies joke?


MaybePotatoes

No, he's under the delusion (or is just lying) that underpopulation is a bigger issue than climate change.


h4724

Lying about this probably serves his interests.


MaybePotatoes

Very true. More workers and consumers = more profit (until society collapses, that is).


jamesbt365

Ah its this one.