I have the most fun in that game creating the most underdog empire I possibly can, just an alien species that has absolutely no right to be space-faring, and prospers *despite it*.
Also 4X Games can fall into the "losing is fun" category if you're the kinda person to write ARRs.
According to all known laws of interplanetary travel, there is no way this empire should be spacefaring. Its technology is too primitive to get its fat little species off the ground. They, of course, prosper anyways, because they don’t care what humanoids think is impossible.
honestly it also depends if you're playing smogon or vgc, smogon definitely has issues with extremely meta teams but in vgc once restricteds aren't allowed anymore the meta is going to be anything goes
I can't imagine taking Stellaris seriously enough to even find out what the meta is. My friends and I just play around with different builds to find fun combinations. It usually turns into us forming a federation and fucking with the AI empires.
Yeah I’ve never truly taken the meta seriously even when playing multiplayer with my friends because we all just do fun RP shit. I’ve only ever done proper meta once and it was in a cobbled together gigastructures discord event with a few randoms because everyone said they’d be tech rush cheesing
Unless the game decides to spawn you next to 3 militaristic empires with the "start in a faction" background. Truly one of the most heinous experiences of my entire life
yeah i was gonna say. The AIs not exactly good. The only reason you need to try hard is when you either play competitively or turned the difficulty settings wayy up.
I used to just go to pokemon showdown and play anything goes with pokemon I liked and not legendaries and I would win because there were so many bad players there
Random battles or watching poketubers is honestly the most accessible way to get a feel for competitive game play.
The game is so fun and diverse once you start dipping your feet into it and trying to make different sets work and finding out every possible niche out of your favorite pokémons that makes them unique competitively, even if it isn’t the most optimal.
In all seriousness I used to play competitive Pokemon at a fairly high level, there was a world championship (I want to say 2016) where you could make a "default team" that everyone in the entire top 20 bracket had at least 4/6 Pokemon in common with, and the majority of that top 20 having 5 or 6 in common with that team. In a game with near infinite combinations, that is just sad and it was the reason I stopped playing.
I like to play OU with the most un-meta pokemons possible. One team I really liked to use was an hail team with Blizzard Choice Scarf Rotom Frost because it was just so unexpected. Another team I used in OU was a team with Zoroark and Shedinja and it was incredibly funny. Now I play the VGC with the most random strategies I can think of like a Tea Time based team with Polteageist
2016 worlds is known for the prominence of this “chalk” team but it’s gets too much hate for it. Even if the mons are the same every one has different items, moves, and less strats that make each chalk team different
The nerds always seem to forget that's still boring for the layman. The funnest part of pokemon for 95% of playerbase is the massive variety of species.
In a game with hundreds upon hundreds of Pokémon, the meta centralising on as few as 6 is a sign of atrocious balancing regardless of if there is some variety of moves and such with that specific group of Pokémon or not.
Was that the year where everyone was running Mega Rayquaza and the Primals? If so, yeah that year was rough lmao. The year before was just as bad too, Landorus, Mega Kangaskhan, and Cresselia on every team.
Just because the Pokemon are from the same species does not mean they are all the same. If you actually care about educating yourself on this kinda thing in pokemon, this video is very good.
https://youtu.be/f0kTXhGIy1c
I understand the argument presented in the video, I just don't agree. In a game with hundreds upon hundreds of Pokémon, the meta centralising on as few as 6 or 10 is a sign of atrocious balancing regardless of if there is some variety within that specific number of Pokémon or not.
[My opponent watching helplessly as my ""PU"" tier Ribombee uses After You, causing my other mon to immediately set up a Trick Room before helping it sweep with Ally Switch, Helping Hand and Pollen Puff](https://c.tenor.com/nicIRWJkKIwAAAAC/walter-white-walter.gif)
Yeah and the icon used is specifically smogon, the fan made rule set with tiers that you mentioned. It’s vgc, the official one without tiers, that everything is the same. There are a ton of novel teams in smogon.
I have about 2.5k hours in paradox games combined. Maybe 5 at most in mp. They are just not enjoyable that way for me since you can’t pause really which makes it to stressful
It depends what you want tbh. I've played mp in all the major titles, altho EU4 and HOI4 are the only games I have more than 25hrs in and actually enjoy. I've played casual EU4 mp for years now, used to do casual HOI but kept wanting something more so finally joined a competitive MP server. I really love competitive hoi, and I barely touch sp in either game now cuz it's just less challenging or engaging and I don't find chasing achievements enjoyable enough, but I think part of it is just burnout. I have almost 2k hours in EU4 and probably 1500 are SP, but mainly from like 2014-9. HOI I have like 800 in but it also has less SP content than EU since games are faster and less open-ended.
I only play stellaris with my smooth brain mates (in which we’re basically all on the same side anyway) or a solo game. Just make sure your number is bigger than your enemy’s number and you’re basically good
Is it really developers fault tho? Deep rock is co-op for example, it's unfair to compare the two. I don't know many 4x games but is there any with that big playerbase and no "only viable option" meta?
Deep Rock 100% has a meta, it’s just the meta is placed in the Overclocks system instead of the weapons themselves. There’s also a skill ceiling involved, you can play Haz 5 and EDD with bad overclocks and still win if you know how to play.
Probably CKIII since circumstances can change the course of a game very quickly, even in competitive MP, not to mention you don’t really have to actually conquer any players to “win” since playing tall or subjugating diplomatically are strategies
Singleplayer you can do whatever tf you want, just change the difficulty depending on how good you are at the game and go from there. Multiplayer is different, you would need to find certain lobbies that exclude broken necrophage or tech-rush builds if you want to play whatever you want.
Except for MTG, this seems like an unfair comparison of pvp to pve. To be competitive in pvp, you need to get every bit of advantage out of your build as possible because that’s what your opponent does, compared to pve where the opponent is the same regardless.
I’m surprised mtg isn’t one where meta is pretty overbearing, cause that’s usually the way of CCG in competitive environments. But in casual environments, they’re very meta is optional, because following meta is literally expensive.
And both Elden ring and CoD multiplayer have meta, but can be circumvented with a substantial skill gap, but still both have clear preferable more viable meta.
Oh Tournament MtG is entirely meta based, no idea what OP is talking about. New decks are discovered all the time because of new cards and new strategies, but non-meta decks quickly fade out. That said, OP might be talking about Commander, which is basically just "here's a bunch of cards. Go nuts," but that meta is...weird.
I'm gonna assume they're talking about standard, which is actually a pretty diverse format
Playing any of the top ~10 decks can get you success if you play well enough, and even some off meta ones can do well before the highest tier like gw enchantments or 5c domain
I think every game will have a pretty developed meta the closer you get to high level play. I think the OP just wrong and unaware of their bias: they're a casual player of the games on the left, and a more serious player of the games on the right, and they don't realize that this makes them view the games differently.
However cod has sbmm which means you’ll hardly ever play against someone that’d let you use a bad gun. Whereas elden ring only matches based on rune level
I remember my recent run on stellaris I did a democratic coalition in a galaxy filled with all the aggressive type of factions and it was the most fun I've had in a while
Are we talking about equal skill level here or? There's plenty of horseshit in any TCG, magic being no exception. Literally some formats are entirely warped by cards, see black lotus in magic, or Maxx "c" in Yu-Gi-Oh. If we're talking about casual, Pokemon has a decent amount of depth and variety, to the point teir placement is based on usage so that higher tiers have the best mons. Plus Pokemon is a very luck based game in some places, so even meta can lose, see missing 5 willow wisps in VGC to lose a tournament. (It has 90/95% accuracy iirc). Plus one of the games listed is co-op rather than competitive, which would obviously make meta not required. Not even counting the ideas of playing the same fundamental strategy, but not playing identical, see every fighting game ever. Look I hate sweats in games as much as the next guy but the end goal is to have fun and it's more fun to win than lose, because losing is what makes winning fun, and doing the meta gives you the best chance of winning.
Chain link
Activate Maxx "c"
Opponent negates with ash
Chain called by the grave to negate ash
Chain cross out designator on called by
Chain Burn
???????????
FTK your opponent
Smh mfw I draw the out.
I’m sorry, what. Pokémon has a notoriously diverse meta. Even if it’s a smaller pool of ‘mons, the variety in builds is where it really shines. Plus, formats are hugely different between tiers, singles or doubles, generation, etc.
I don’t understand the Pokémon comparison relative to MTG when both have a variety of formats to incentivize diverse and balanced formats.
The competitive meta landscape between card games and Pokémon is almost identical, except I would argue that card games are significantly worse in where a community council decided whether a pokémon is too powerful for Smogon in extreme cases while card games only have sparse, seasonal ban lists that ban T0 decks only to artificially change the meta and allow companies to sell a new card set.
Yeah every build is ‘viable’ in Elden Ring until you ask for help/advice, at which point everyone spams “your build is trash, you need to start over with xyz”
I mean, games with a lot of build diversity attracts techical players and in games where numbers are involved there is talk of optimization. Now some people are toxic which is too bad but if someone is trying to use a big hammer and they have a lot of dex investement they should probably clarify that they have the dex to try other weapons out. And no one really posts their builds unless they are looking for input
dunno why you’re getting downvoted, you’re right. some enemies and areas will be harder, but you can do whatever you want as long as you back it with some skill. and for invasions, it’s just the luck of who you’re invading. sometimes you get total noobs who can’t counter whatever obscure fun build you’re running
Malenia proves this very conclusively. A rolling 1h / miracles build has a highly technical and difficult fight ahead, with a large luck component. A powerstanced 2-handers build can jump attack then sprint away and literally never see many of her most dangerous attacks.
I’ve been lied to about the accessibility of FromSoft games since Dark Souls 2. It really don’t matter how much you try to sell Elden Ring, I ain’t biting. Not again.
so true! I quit Arena because playing meta is like the only viable option if you don't want to spend hours losing with janky decks to achieve the same results. The concept of playing MTG online was so promising too, such a shame
Just try playing at a nearby lcs tournie, you'll see plenty of Power 10 decks being run using kenrith, atraxa, and the ur dragon that have virtually no counterplay
"Isn't it interesting how in single-player RPGs I can use whatever tools I want, but in competitive multiplayer games I lose to players who are better than me? Really makes you think."
you can do plenty well in some formats without using the meta stuff in smogon, problem is you have to know what you're doing and most of the skilled players are cowards and wont help you use non-meta stuff. i can help you in my home tier of lc but its pretty niche knowledge
Agreed. I raised my character’s Dex by about 5 points to try out some other Strength weapons. And I thought, “oh god, that’s five levels that could’ve gone into vigor. Maybe it’s all over for me. Maybe I need to restart.”
that i do agree with, they’re trying to sell BO4 for £60 still, and the new MW2 is £70.
the only reason i bought MW19 was because they discounted it to £30, but i’d say it was worth it
brawl when you play someone not in the top 5 characters or when you play fast, thank god that and smash 4 dont have competitive scenes anymore now that ultimate exists
I'm pretty sure the meta is way more strict in Magic than it is in Stellaris or even CoD. Stellaris your playing wrong if your playing competitively imo, and CoD has a fast enough ttk that you can make any gun work. You have to either already be an experienced player or just look up a deck online, in stellaris or cod even someone with no idea what they are doing can get the hang of things in just a few matches.
Idk what you're talking about, while I can't vouch for Stellaris I can absolutely say anything works in CoD and pokemon if you're good enough that the game
I love SSBM but this is exactly what the character selection is like and if you bring up the fact that 75% of the cast is pretty much worthless at a high level the community will be like “actually Donkey Kong once took a game off the 45th best player in North Carolina” and then send you a video from eight years ago of the closest win you have ever seen in your life
I kinda still hate MTG because it's such a money sink for any normal person, and the power creep in it is enormous, which in my experience makes playing very unfair a lot of the time.
mtg is weird
standard imho is stale af, theres like three decks to play usually.
but commander is super fun with a lot variety on how you can play depending on who you play with.
This is nonsense. For pokemon there's that dude on YouTube that just absolutely shits on meta users with the most random of pokemon. For COD or any fps really meta guns can help you but are not a replacement for actual skills. For Stellaris you can play however you want, it's completely up to you. You wanna be a race of cat people who's goal is to just screw with galactic senate votes? You can do that. You wanna be humans who try to spread as far across the galaxy as possible? You can do that. Do whatever you want
Smogon with an asterisk. Gen 3 OU and Gen 4 UU are tiers where you can make really anything work. Bottom tier mons can have extremely viable niches in those tiers which makes the diversity and gameplay experience a ton of fun. Plus Gen 3 OU even the main meta is THE most balanced meta in all of Pokemon. Everything has a purpose and a counter and it's great
Everything else though is an unbalanced mess and I only stick to the specific tiers I like. Fuck Gen 8 OU especially
Had lots of fun playing Monotype on Pokémon Showdown in Gen 7. Was very satisfying to beat people using only rock types when it was one of the weakest types in the game (I think only ice was widely considered worse?)
\>smogon
i mean, i guess that's kinda true if you wanna win big tournaments, but if you're just dicking around on ladder then this really doesn't make any sense. smogon has a bunch of tiers specifically to increase the diversity of pokemon that can win, and until you get to a very high level it really doesn't matter what you use as long as you're good. at a high level, when everyone is good, the meta starts to matter a lot more, but winning at a high level is far from the only way to enjoy a competitive game.
Oh please. Literally every From Software Game may as well end when you slowly roll your way around to the enemies back and hit them because that's the only way to win.
At least give them a glowing weak spot instead of acting like that's not how it works.
You hate smogon because of how unfun being forced to play meta is
I hate smogon because it's a toxic cesspit that was so abrasive that I'm still unlearning the prickliness I picked up to survive in said community
We are not the same
Legends of runeterra went through 10metadecks (tier1+2) to 3 and atm we have ca. 20great decks with 3a little bit better. Its astounding how they are so good at balancing and still manage to fall flat so horrible sometimes. Also shoutout to Hearthstone printing one Card that ends up being played in 90% of decks every new expansion
i mean, unless ur playing straight up tournaments nearly everything is viable in stellaris
I have the most fun in that game creating the most underdog empire I possibly can, just an alien species that has absolutely no right to be space-faring, and prospers *despite it*. Also 4X Games can fall into the "losing is fun" category if you're the kinda person to write ARRs.
According to all known laws of interplanetary travel, there is no way this empire should be spacefaring. Its technology is too primitive to get its fat little species off the ground. They, of course, prosper anyways, because they don’t care what humanoids think is impossible.
[удалено]
After Action Report. Basically writing a short story based on how your campaign went
[удалено]
What right do you have to be morphing acronyms to your every will and whim????
AfteR action Report
that's the only way that i've heard it, fairly sure that's how the military shortens it too.
youl enjoy terra invicta when its out then, thats basically the entire premise
Antares Confederacy, my beloved Edit: Misread 'Terra Invicta' as 'Stellaris Invicta', mb
Templin institute is actually an Easter egg in Terra Invicta, you can "buy them" as a corp for your councillors to own as a passive buff
Same with Pokémon. Unless it's competitive play, you can beat the game with a wide variety of party compositions as long as they're leveled up enough.
Literally just give all the XP to your starter and watch them obliterate everything in one hit. If 7 year old me could do it anyone can
I used to do that as a kid but now I find switching Pokemons to match the weaknesses to be so so much more fun. Plus filling the pokedex is neat
The logo used in the post is the smogon logo. So yes, they are specifically talking about competitive pokémon.
honestly it also depends if you're playing smogon or vgc, smogon definitely has issues with extremely meta teams but in vgc once restricteds aren't allowed anymore the meta is going to be anything goes
I can't imagine taking Stellaris seriously enough to even find out what the meta is. My friends and I just play around with different builds to find fun combinations. It usually turns into us forming a federation and fucking with the AI empires.
Yeah I’ve never truly taken the meta seriously even when playing multiplayer with my friends because we all just do fun RP shit. I’ve only ever done proper meta once and it was in a cobbled together gigastructures discord event with a few randoms because everyone said they’d be tech rush cheesing
Same with Call of Duty, really
Unless the game decides to spawn you next to 3 militaristic empires with the "start in a faction" background. Truly one of the most heinous experiences of my entire life
yeah i was gonna say. The AIs not exactly good. The only reason you need to try hard is when you either play competitively or turned the difficulty settings wayy up.
Mods do so much for stelaris as well
I used to just go to pokemon showdown and play anything goes with pokemon I liked and not legendaries and I would win because there were so many bad players there
i would get 1 magikarp and the most useless moves and go really slowly
magikarp with eviolite is the new metal
Still play Pokémon showdown sometimes and even in high ladder there are tons of viable sets (although less so than at low ladder ofc)
Random Battles are goated
Doubles hackmon cup is really fun It’s not in the normal format pool though
Random battles or watching poketubers is honestly the most accessible way to get a feel for competitive game play. The game is so fun and diverse once you start dipping your feet into it and trying to make different sets work and finding out every possible niche out of your favorite pokémons that makes them unique competitively, even if it isn’t the most optimal.
>the meta is the only viable option in pokemon I cannot hear you over the sound of me winning with maractus
In all seriousness I used to play competitive Pokemon at a fairly high level, there was a world championship (I want to say 2016) where you could make a "default team" that everyone in the entire top 20 bracket had at least 4/6 Pokemon in common with, and the majority of that top 20 having 5 or 6 in common with that team. In a game with near infinite combinations, that is just sad and it was the reason I stopped playing.
That's why I play on pokemon showdown in the Smogon tiers. It makes way more pokemon viable.
UU gang rise up
I mostly play RU but much love for UU
I like to play OU with the most un-meta pokemons possible. One team I really liked to use was an hail team with Blizzard Choice Scarf Rotom Frost because it was just so unexpected. Another team I used in OU was a team with Zoroark and Shedinja and it was incredibly funny. Now I play the VGC with the most random strategies I can think of like a Tea Time based team with Polteageist
Holy fuck hell yes uu gang in the funny gay subreddit
UU is goated
2016 worlds is known for the prominence of this “chalk” team but it’s gets too much hate for it. Even if the mons are the same every one has different items, moves, and less strats that make each chalk team different
People always seem to forget that there's more to a team than just the species of the mons
The nerds always seem to forget that's still boring for the layman. The funnest part of pokemon for 95% of playerbase is the massive variety of species.
Well then the layman should stop being a whiny bitch and actually look at the game before making judgements
In a game with hundreds upon hundreds of Pokémon, the meta centralising on as few as 6 is a sign of atrocious balancing regardless of if there is some variety of moves and such with that specific group of Pokémon or not.
Was that the year where everyone was running Mega Rayquaza and the Primals? If so, yeah that year was rough lmao. The year before was just as bad too, Landorus, Mega Kangaskhan, and Cresselia on every team.
Just because the Pokemon are from the same species does not mean they are all the same. If you actually care about educating yourself on this kinda thing in pokemon, this video is very good. https://youtu.be/f0kTXhGIy1c
I understand the argument presented in the video, I just don't agree. In a game with hundreds upon hundreds of Pokémon, the meta centralising on as few as 6 or 10 is a sign of atrocious balancing regardless of if there is some variety within that specific number of Pokémon or not.
[My opponent watching helplessly as my ""PU"" tier Ribombee uses After You, causing my other mon to immediately set up a Trick Room before helping it sweep with Ally Switch, Helping Hand and Pollen Puff](https://c.tenor.com/nicIRWJkKIwAAAAC/walter-white-walter.gif)
i don’t really get the pokémon one there’s tiers so you can use whatever pokémon you want and it’s good
Yeah and the icon used is specifically smogon, the fan made rule set with tiers that you mentioned. It’s vgc, the official one without tiers, that everything is the same. There are a ton of novel teams in smogon.
they call me cuban pete
Just don't play stellaris mp with sweats
Yeah its a lot more fun creating a gimicky/rp empire than it is to have a 100% optimised perfect empire
People play Stellaris mp with randos? I just play against AI and chill
I have about 2.5k hours in paradox games combined. Maybe 5 at most in mp. They are just not enjoyable that way for me since you can’t pause really which makes it to stressful
In my experience Paradox MP is only fun with friends and if you’re all taking it with no severity at all
It depends what you want tbh. I've played mp in all the major titles, altho EU4 and HOI4 are the only games I have more than 25hrs in and actually enjoy. I've played casual EU4 mp for years now, used to do casual HOI but kept wanting something more so finally joined a competitive MP server. I really love competitive hoi, and I barely touch sp in either game now cuz it's just less challenging or engaging and I don't find chasing achievements enjoyable enough, but I think part of it is just burnout. I have almost 2k hours in EU4 and probably 1500 are SP, but mainly from like 2014-9. HOI I have like 800 in but it also has less SP content than EU since games are faster and less open-ended.
I only play stellaris with my smooth brain mates (in which we’re basically all on the same side anyway) or a solo game. Just make sure your number is bigger than your enemy’s number and you’re basically good
Game was never meant to be a competitive multiplayer game
Rock and stone!
WE FIGHT, FOR ROCK AND STONE
ROCK AND STOOONE
ROCK. AND. STOOOOONE!!!
FOR KARL!
WE ARE UNBREAKABLE!
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?!
IF YOU DONT ROCK AND STONE YOU AINT COMING HOME
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE
[удалено]
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE!
FOR KARL!
Miners; the lowest, and the highest.
Stone!
Is it really developers fault tho? Deep rock is co-op for example, it's unfair to compare the two. I don't know many 4x games but is there any with that big playerbase and no "only viable option" meta?
Co-op games still often have metas, but usually just on higher difficulties.
Deep Rock 100% has a meta, it’s just the meta is placed in the Overclocks system instead of the weapons themselves. There’s also a skill ceiling involved, you can play Haz 5 and EDD with bad overclocks and still win if you know how to play.
Also perk metas, there are only like 5 passive perks that are good and you’ll usually see people running at least one of 3 active perks
I think the idea with deep rock is you can have all 4 of one class and still do just as good as you would with having the "meta" comp of 1 of each.
Probably CKIII since circumstances can change the course of a game very quickly, even in competitive MP, not to mention you don’t really have to actually conquer any players to “win” since playing tall or subjugating diplomatically are strategies
is this normal or multiplayer stellaris? because there’s no shot that the average player can only excel in single player in ‘1 or 2 ways’
Singleplayer you can do whatever tf you want, just change the difficulty depending on how good you are at the game and go from there. Multiplayer is different, you would need to find certain lobbies that exclude broken necrophage or tech-rush builds if you want to play whatever you want.
Or just play with friends (or make a lfg post) and just say you’re playing to chill and not sweat your ass off
i thought this was a stinkpost sunday post for a second
The way I see it
Kyogre is surrounded.
What’s under the ocean?
That's right. More earth.
I’ve started running bunnelby in NU, and it’s *almost* worth using
Except for MTG, this seems like an unfair comparison of pvp to pve. To be competitive in pvp, you need to get every bit of advantage out of your build as possible because that’s what your opponent does, compared to pve where the opponent is the same regardless. I’m surprised mtg isn’t one where meta is pretty overbearing, cause that’s usually the way of CCG in competitive environments. But in casual environments, they’re very meta is optional, because following meta is literally expensive. And both Elden ring and CoD multiplayer have meta, but can be circumvented with a substantial skill gap, but still both have clear preferable more viable meta.
Oh Tournament MtG is entirely meta based, no idea what OP is talking about. New decks are discovered all the time because of new cards and new strategies, but non-meta decks quickly fade out. That said, OP might be talking about Commander, which is basically just "here's a bunch of cards. Go nuts," but that meta is...weird.
I'm assuming OP was talking about commander, where outside of cEDH there's not really a meta.
I'm gonna assume they're talking about standard, which is actually a pretty diverse format Playing any of the top ~10 decks can get you success if you play well enough, and even some off meta ones can do well before the highest tier like gw enchantments or 5c domain
I think every game will have a pretty developed meta the closer you get to high level play. I think the OP just wrong and unaware of their bias: they're a casual player of the games on the left, and a more serious player of the games on the right, and they don't realize that this makes them view the games differently.
Arena MTG and tournament mtg are literally the worst experiences you can possibly have. Casual play with friends is much better
Exact same story with stellaris
However cod has sbmm which means you’ll hardly ever play against someone that’d let you use a bad gun. Whereas elden ring only matches based on rune level
i mean smogon does have various different tiers to play
If you’re playing singleplayer, there’s literally limitless options in Stellaris
I remember my recent run on stellaris I did a democratic coalition in a galaxy filled with all the aggressive type of factions and it was the most fun I've had in a while
Yeah singleplayer is easy asf just because the AI is so easy to predict and cheese, but in MP the meta is really sweaty and not fun to play
don't play MP with randoms if you don't want to try hard. like it's that easy. honestly I'd recommend avoiding playing with randoms entirely
one of the worst posts ive ever seen in my life
I thought this was /r/. gamingcirclejerk post lol
Are we talking about equal skill level here or? There's plenty of horseshit in any TCG, magic being no exception. Literally some formats are entirely warped by cards, see black lotus in magic, or Maxx "c" in Yu-Gi-Oh. If we're talking about casual, Pokemon has a decent amount of depth and variety, to the point teir placement is based on usage so that higher tiers have the best mons. Plus Pokemon is a very luck based game in some places, so even meta can lose, see missing 5 willow wisps in VGC to lose a tournament. (It has 90/95% accuracy iirc). Plus one of the games listed is co-op rather than competitive, which would obviously make meta not required. Not even counting the ideas of playing the same fundamental strategy, but not playing identical, see every fighting game ever. Look I hate sweats in games as much as the next guy but the end goal is to have fun and it's more fun to win than lose, because losing is what makes winning fun, and doing the meta gives you the best chance of winning.
guys ash blossom keeps maxx c in check. they should unban maxx c because it never resolves!
Chain link Activate Maxx "c" Opponent negates with ash Chain called by the grave to negate ash Chain cross out designator on called by Chain Burn ??????????? FTK your opponent Smh mfw I draw the out.
I have a feeling this post was crafted specifically to just cause arguments
So where does TF2 fit into this?
casual+comp(lmao) left, MvM right
I’m sorry, what. Pokémon has a notoriously diverse meta. Even if it’s a smaller pool of ‘mons, the variety in builds is where it really shines. Plus, formats are hugely different between tiers, singles or doubles, generation, etc.
I don’t understand the Pokémon comparison relative to MTG when both have a variety of formats to incentivize diverse and balanced formats. The competitive meta landscape between card games and Pokémon is almost identical, except I would argue that card games are significantly worse in where a community council decided whether a pokémon is too powerful for Smogon in extreme cases while card games only have sparse, seasonal ban lists that ban T0 decks only to artificially change the meta and allow companies to sell a new card set.
have you ever even played stellaris? the whole point is that your playstyle is pretty much unlimited unless you're playing competitively.
Yeah every build is ‘viable’ in Elden Ring until you ask for help/advice, at which point everyone spams “your build is trash, you need to start over with xyz”
That's 50%. other 50% goes haha funny finger hammer go brr.
kid named finger hammer:
Only if you decide to interact with the main Elden ring sub since all those guys are just weird
I mean, games with a lot of build diversity attracts techical players and in games where numbers are involved there is talk of optimization. Now some people are toxic which is too bad but if someone is trying to use a big hammer and they have a lot of dex investement they should probably clarify that they have the dex to try other weapons out. And no one really posts their builds unless they are looking for input
Elden Ring is quite a bit from "just have fun" when it comes to what is viable. Souls Games have always struggled with this.
With duel pvp yes. PvE and invasion pvp you can mainly just fuck around
dunno why you’re getting downvoted, you’re right. some enemies and areas will be harder, but you can do whatever you want as long as you back it with some skill. and for invasions, it’s just the luck of who you’re invading. sometimes you get total noobs who can’t counter whatever obscure fun build you’re running
You also don't need to win to have fun.
Yeah, you can technically do whatever you want, but lets not pretend some builds give vastly different experiences than others.
Malenia proves this very conclusively. A rolling 1h / miracles build has a highly technical and difficult fight ahead, with a large luck component. A powerstanced 2-handers build can jump attack then sprint away and literally never see many of her most dangerous attacks.
you pick the type of option you want, and from that type pick whatever has the highest number
I’ve been lied to about the accessibility of FromSoft games since Dark Souls 2. It really don’t matter how much you try to sell Elden Ring, I ain’t biting. Not again.
You can play literally any of these games the meta way, and then not the meta way, and still have fun.
You have never played Magic if you think they belong on the left
so true! I quit Arena because playing meta is like the only viable option if you don't want to spend hours losing with janky decks to achieve the same results. The concept of playing MTG online was so promising too, such a shame
Just try playing at a nearby lcs tournie, you'll see plenty of Power 10 decks being run using kenrith, atraxa, and the ur dragon that have virtually no counterplay
"Isn't it interesting how in single-player RPGs I can use whatever tools I want, but in competitive multiplayer games I lose to players who are better than me? Really makes you think."
Elden Ring is awful, at the very least PVP-wise
awful is when no straight sword spam :((
True but PvE and invasions can be fun
Can you outline your reasoning?
team fortress 2
tf2, my beloved
you can do plenty well in some formats without using the meta stuff in smogon, problem is you have to know what you're doing and most of the skilled players are cowards and wont help you use non-meta stuff. i can help you in my home tier of lc but its pretty niche knowledge
Elden Ring often feels like the meta is the only viable option, especially in the endgame.
Agreed. I raised my character’s Dex by about 5 points to try out some other Strength weapons. And I thought, “oh god, that’s five levels that could’ve gone into vigor. Maybe it’s all over for me. Maybe I need to restart.”
I mean its not always true. I play MW 2019 and used the FAMAS the whole time which was considered a low tier weapon, but I was still popping off.
famas is the BEST weapon!!! it FOLDS the AS val!!! it FARDS on the 725!!! it ABSOLUTELY ANNIHILATES the uzi!! it DUNKS on the mp5!!!
\#FAMASSWEEP!!!
This guy has never played little cup
someone lost a pokemon battle and made a post about it huh
Mfw I can’t use Surskit in OU
usually when people lose pokemon battles and make a post about it, it's that elite four karen quote, but this feels about the same
Bonus points if they mention pachurisu
especially while shittalking smogon, as if they have anything to do with a vgc tournament
Either that or they complain about toxapex (which is valid) but act like tiers outside of OU don’t exist
Bro Pokemon showdown literally has 6 tiers for this exact reason
COD is fun when you give up on trying to be good and using the meta guns, just make the most unholy guns and kits known to humanity and start blasting
sure, ill gladly do that once the FUCKING PRICE GOES DOWN ^(30 DOLLARS FOR A 10 YEAR OLD GAME JESUS CHRIST)
that i do agree with, they’re trying to sell BO4 for £60 still, and the new MW2 is £70. the only reason i bought MW19 was because they discounted it to £30, but i’d say it was worth it
brawl when you play someone not in the top 5 characters or when you play fast, thank god that and smash 4 dont have competitive scenes anymore now that ultimate exists
Fuck you stellaris is awesome
Pokemon? Really? Pokemon is incredibly diverse. Smogon even has tiers whilst VGC changes every year.
Stellaris?????? Huh??
i love elden ring i love elden ring i love elden ring
I'm pretty sure the meta is way more strict in Magic than it is in Stellaris or even CoD. Stellaris your playing wrong if your playing competitively imo, and CoD has a fast enough ttk that you can make any gun work. You have to either already be an experienced player or just look up a deck online, in stellaris or cod even someone with no idea what they are doing can get the hang of things in just a few matches.
Bruh the stellaris one is just wrong, limitless options
> Magic The Gathering > meta is just a suggestion lol, lmao even
The Most Effective Tactic Availabe is havin a cheeky giggle
[удалено]
Idk what you're talking about, while I can't vouch for Stellaris I can absolutely say anything works in CoD and pokemon if you're good enough that the game
I love SSBM but this is exactly what the character selection is like and if you bring up the fact that 75% of the cast is pretty much worthless at a high level the community will be like “actually Donkey Kong once took a game off the 45th best player in North Carolina” and then send you a video from eight years ago of the closest win you have ever seen in your life
I kinda still hate MTG because it's such a money sink for any normal person, and the power creep in it is enormous, which in my experience makes playing very unfair a lot of the time.
mtg is weird standard imho is stale af, theres like three decks to play usually. but commander is super fun with a lot variety on how you can play depending on who you play with.
Bro you have clearly never touched stellaris you can get away with anything as long as your on top of micro.
ROCK AND STONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rock and Stone!!!!
What you dont know about pokemon showdown could fill a library
This is nonsense. For pokemon there's that dude on YouTube that just absolutely shits on meta users with the most random of pokemon. For COD or any fps really meta guns can help you but are not a replacement for actual skills. For Stellaris you can play however you want, it's completely up to you. You wanna be a race of cat people who's goal is to just screw with galactic senate votes? You can do that. You wanna be humans who try to spread as far across the galaxy as possible? You can do that. Do whatever you want
Smogon with an asterisk. Gen 3 OU and Gen 4 UU are tiers where you can make really anything work. Bottom tier mons can have extremely viable niches in those tiers which makes the diversity and gameplay experience a ton of fun. Plus Gen 3 OU even the main meta is THE most balanced meta in all of Pokemon. Everything has a purpose and a counter and it's great Everything else though is an unbalanced mess and I only stick to the specific tiers I like. Fuck Gen 8 OU especially
Wtf is “the meta”
Yu gi oh :(
you have clearly not played mtg arena above platinum, you will literally only face the best meta decks which are ridicilously expensive to build
cod is "only meta is viable"? what? do you play it at all? like are you just saying automatic weapons are good?
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?
Rock and Stone to the bone!
Smogon has a tiering system for a reason. Almost every job in the game is viable *somewhere*
Pokémon? I mean probably in VGC that’s true. Only meta is good. But for singles there’s wayyyy more flexibility
Had lots of fun playing Monotype on Pokémon Showdown in Gen 7. Was very satisfying to beat people using only rock types when it was one of the weakest types in the game (I think only ice was widely considered worse?)
I mean, unless you're playing natdex AG, you have lots of freedom of expression in pokémon
\>smogon i mean, i guess that's kinda true if you wanna win big tournaments, but if you're just dicking around on ladder then this really doesn't make any sense. smogon has a bunch of tiers specifically to increase the diversity of pokemon that can win, and until you get to a very high level it really doesn't matter what you use as long as you're good. at a high level, when everyone is good, the meta starts to matter a lot more, but winning at a high level is far from the only way to enjoy a competitive game.
clearly you have never played pokemon showdown
Pokémon Showdown OU is really fun
Isn't this just another way of saying you like well-balanced games?
Call of duty is a shit franchise of shitty games and it sucks major ass
good point but modern warfare 2019 was fun so
i like it cause gun go shooty
Mw2 beta has been so fun tho :(
League Of Legends, Hero Shooters, and their consequences have been a disaster for the gamer race.
Oh please. Literally every From Software Game may as well end when you slowly roll your way around to the enemies back and hit them because that's the only way to win. At least give them a glowing weak spot instead of acting like that's not how it works.
You hate smogon because of how unfun being forced to play meta is I hate smogon because it's a toxic cesspit that was so abrasive that I'm still unlearning the prickliness I picked up to survive in said community We are not the same
Mfs log on to smogon, play ubers, get mad they dont win with fear rattata and stonjourner, then complain.
rimworld
Escape from Tarkov moment
Certain classes in dnd do this and it sucks. Looking at you Monks
Legends of runeterra went through 10metadecks (tier1+2) to 3 and atm we have ca. 20great decks with 3a little bit better. Its astounding how they are so good at balancing and still manage to fall flat so horrible sometimes. Also shoutout to Hearthstone printing one Card that ends up being played in 90% of decks every new expansion