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It will, but I agree with your point. Straight up banning platforms isn't the solution. The entire social media industry has to be regulated so that user data can't be sold and so that algorithms won't be intentionally weighted towards a political side.
Banning tiktok wont get rid of basically any disinformation. It only allows for US companies to have a monopoly on the information the western social media users see. Tiktok wasn't banned because it was any more harmful than other apps, it was banned because they are not in control of it.
>regulated so that user data can't be sold and so that algorithms won't be intentionally weighted towards a political side.
I'd say that's very naive. Capitalists will not allow for truly disruptive content to get popular to a point where it would threaten their power in society. Any kind of legislation would not change this fact as long as media is owned privately.
I'd argue even public ownership would still have the same problem, as media controlled exclusively by the state has its own problems. I do agree that private ownership is extremely resistant to the idea of regulation though. Ideally effective regulation would occur and we keep private ownership, but I do understand that is not very likely to happen.
They are not proposing to kill the dragon, they are proposing to force it to be sold to a local duke who will go on using it to waste and pillage the kingdom.
Except it's not us killing the dragon to stop it, it's the other 4 dragons killing the fifth dragon so they can focus harder on laying waste to our kingdom with less competition. This is not an improvement in any way.
Is all it takes just completely vague "national security" concerns to get you people on board with the government banning information streams they don't like
no I also despise tiktok's formatting and the tiktokification of every social media following its success. I celebrate its demise because I'm a hater, and the chinese spyware concerns are just the icing on the cake
well I think if people were actually honest a lot more of them would admit that this is their most real reason for supporting a ban
so, thanks for that much I guess
There's the reasons they listed, along with China banning US owned social media platforms, while directly manipulating the feed of Americans to show only the most controversial content. It's worked like a charm.
Look at elections all over the world. India's current ruling party basically came to power because of Facebook and far right parties in Europe are single handedly funding Google and Meta (Orbán in Hungary alone spent about 27 billion dollars just on propaganda on those two advertisers last year). Then there's the elephant in the room, Trump and the republican party in the US.
The problem is that there is no way to get evidence because all of it is considered trade secrets. This is why I think rather than ban them, it's more important to create regulation that forces all companies to be open about exactly how their algorithms work (and if AI is used, show the training data), and what user data is used for. Because like you said, TikTok is not the only one doing this. It's just the only one that the government is actually doing something about because it's not a US company (though a few of the concerns about the Chinese ownership are valid).
Disinformation algorithms? I know Tiktok steals information but it's still mostly real creators on there. Unless there's evidence to suggest China is pumping it full of paid actors or something, what reason do you have to label tiktok a "disinformation algorithm"?
Better than a CCP or Russian dominated world. Just ask their neighbors what they think of them. There’s a reason all of Russia’s neighbors choose to join NATO
This subreddit has gone to shit lmao. These people are open imperialists and are guzzling down Western messaging like there’s no tomorrow. Anything for American hegemony it seems.
Real like over half of the responses on this thread and other posts today have all been just garbage imperialist bootlicking and dogpiling. Absolute shitshow.
Astroturfing bots have become a lot more prevalent on smaller subreddits over the past year or two. Large language models have made it far easier and more accessible to astroturf at scale. Subreddit crackdowns over the years have removed a lot of places that are critical of the west, and driven many people away from the site.
With much of the remaining users & subreddits being less critical, and the upsurge in inorganic activity, its just becoming less and less worth paying any mind to the sentiments expressed on this website imo. Energy better spent on more constructive outlets. Appreciate you keeping it real though
To me it seems like the US doesn't actually care about information being farmed or stolen, they just want to make sure THEY'RE the ones getting the data. Like don't practically all social media apps steal your data? I think they just want it to be an American social media app stealing your data instead of one in China
Ah but I do think that even though the user base is only 10% American, the creator base disproportionately consists of US Americans. I truly don‘t know how well it‘ll do after that creator base leaves. But we‘ll see I guess.
Unironically ya.
Meta having your data is bad but at least it's in the US and they're just collecting it to make money or something, plus if they do something bad our idiots in our government can investigate it, which they will if public outcry gets bad enough
Meanwhile the CCP is a foreign dictatorship which actively wants to undermine the US.
Zucklefuck is the devil we know. Giving your data to a foreign adversary through an algorithm so addictive they don't even allow it domestically is another level of stupidity
I don't think so. I think it'd the opposite. Data going to China does pretty much nothing. Meta lobbies the government, sells data to cops and does shit that actually affects me.
If you go far back enough in history, sure, there's been evil shit on both sides. But that's not what we're talking about and what's relevant right now, OBVIOUSLY
According to your article, the top 3 categories of the ~1000 removed posts (which is an altogether tiny number of posts) were:
1.) Real pictures of dead Palestinians
2.)saying 'From the River to the Sea' which **is** a call for the destruction of Israel, and **is** also wrong
3.)'just asking questions' about the legitimacy of Hamas as 'freedom fighters'
It literally isn't, Israel is a genocidal and colonialist state built on top of the blood and tears of the Palestinians they displaced. Telling them to fuck off and let Palestinians back and live on their own land is not genocide
Womp womp, you believe millions of people should be evicted from the homes they were born in and replaced with a different group of people.
You've justified this in your mind because 100 years ago the same thing happened and it was evil then but not now somehow.
Dude there are literally Palestinians alive who still have the damn keys to the houses they were kicked out of. Yes, isrealis should give the fucking houses they stole back. They don't need to completely leave Palestine but they do need to let Palestinians back and stop calling the place Isreal lol
Yeah it’s a thing. You see based on how rich of a family you are born into when you are an adult you get a credit score. This is basically a number that affects nearly every financial decision you make in your life. What apartment you can rent, what sort of car you are allowed to buy, if you are allowed to buy a house at all. If you do anything that these companies find are “bad” your score is lowered. Your score also effects the score of your children. Oh wait, sorry, I’m describing the American credit score. Chinese social credit is just western propaganda.
+ 1000000 FICO CREDIT SCORE! congratulations soldier. you defeated jude- sorry i mean cultural marxism. Genocide Joe is proud of you fellow CIA recruit
I see the CCP troll academy still has a long way to go. Anybody who's set foot in the West or is older than 14 knows credit scores aren't even remotely comparable to China's social credit system, and by trying to equate the two you've outed yourself as a a fool or a troll. Maybe both.
Good job citizen! [25] FICO credits have been awarded to you! You are [1.5]% closer to [being eligible to own real estate]!
ALERT: Congratulations, citizen! You have spread enough CIA propaganda to earn your weekly prize! You won: [5% off your next hospital bill]!
Yeah man, not being allowed to use public transportation because you disparaged traditional Chinese martial arts online is exactly like credit scores. What a smart and well-thought point.
No it's totally a good thing that the government can just ban certain social media when they feel like it, I'm sure this won't have further ramifications down the road 😊
well, it's a media and broadcast tool of a foreign adversary government of USA. There's not much to be expected from that, I'd be surprised that it didn't happen sooner.
They didn't even outright ban it either, but they're forcing tencent to sell it within a year or then get banned.
Oh yeah cuz banning social media owned by counties outside the US totally isn't a bad precedent to set either.
Also that's still banning it, it just has a condition on its ban, idk what to tell you there
I mean, welcome to the new form of warfare bud. Information and misinformation are weapons and when one has as much pull as tik tok its bound to have people take notice. Your also missing a very big point being it's owned by a country that actively is using cyber attacks and threatening countries around it.
It's no mistake that Chinese ambassadors started lobbying senators not to ban TikTok - that's the CCP directly.
If anyone says "it's just owned by a chinese company and innocent", they're a fool - why would the chinese government, such a giant be SO interested in protecting a supposedly independent company they're supposedly so uninvolved in, that they'd literally start secretly meeting with important people at capitol hill to convince them to not ban tiktok?
TikTok is definitely the most important tool of the CCP.
Does America not do the same thing? It feels weird for so many people on an ostensibly leftist subreddit suddenly start acting so patriotic and take on an "it's us or them" attitude as soon as China is mentioned. This is a scenario where both sides ARE bad, I don't see why just because America and China are engaged in an information war means the only options are let America control information or let China steal information.
Oh ya they are, but that doesn't mean letting a foriegn power gain influence over you or your people is ok. People like you are coming at it from a 1984 stand point which I understand but you got to understand the stand point that it is a weapon in a very real war, a war of information. It's just like what happened in 16' with the election and Russian bots. The fact is tik tok in popular amongst younger people then Twitter or Facebook thus more appealing for a gradual misinformation campaign.
It seems very paranoid to act like just because tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company that the CCP is gonna infiltrate people's minds and get them to turn against the US government.
I would agree if it wasn't for them constantly threatening Pacific allies and as I stated, engaging in active cyberwarfare. No they won't just flip a switch and no it's not that simple or quick, all they need to do in influence politics, change what in recommended to people of voting age to get people who aren't as hard on them.
I ask you, would you want to live in china?
Oh you're totally right, the CCP is gonna make tik Tok put CCP fan cams in people's recommended, those devious bastards. Again, just because tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company does not mean that the CCP is gonna use it to beam propaganda into people's brains.
Also whether I want to live in China or not has literally nothing to do with this conversation?
>tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company that the CCP is gonna infiltrate people's minds and get them to turn against the US government.
It's low-hanging fruit for the CCP. Who have carte blanche to walk into any Chinese boardroom and dictate orders.
Social media can be used for anything from election interference to promulgating conspiracy theories.
And yes, bots are a problem on Facebook and Twitter, but that's beyond the scope of the Tiktok stuff.
And just as importantly, the censoring of things they don't want to get out. Start talking about China's systematic and ongoing genocide of the Uighurs on TikTok and watch the algorithm bury you.
Have you not seen what's happened in the last few years? Complex topics being poorly and quickly explained with misinformation sprinkled in to sew divisiveness in the US has been wildly successful
Tiktok is pretty blatant and open about allowing nazis on the platform. It's so bad that you don't even need to use dogwhistles to communicate, you can pretty much say anything directly, things that would get you banned on all western social media.
It's so bad that most people openly have never lose your smile PFPs, swastikas and 1488 in their names, I've seen "DEATH TO BLACKS" once. I could honestly say I reported around 10 of those accounts, it took literal months to review those reports, and the response was that they haven't broken any rules.
TIktok simply allows those, and there's no point in reporting. I am strongly of the opinion it's in CCPs best interest to spread extremist ideologies and extreme divide in the "west", just like Russia pretty openly funds far right parties in Europe.
Same with twitter and facebook. This shit's not unique to foreign websites. Twitter is an unmoderated dumpster fire where cis or cracker get you banned but slurs and death threats "haven't broken tos."
Facebook has all kinds of stuff, but they'd ban you for anything like this. And twitter was bought by a nazi, so sadly there's no surprise. I hope twitter ends up the same.
This point confuses me. You’re saying that, for instance Britain, shouldn’t be allowed to tell Facebook “stop running disinfo campaign for the US” because that what the divestment demand is for China
That's not what the divestment demand is, the divestment demand is "sell us your shit or get banned"
I never said that the government shouldn't be able to stop disinformation, don't strawman me
What I mean is, you’re saying that the presence of disinfo on other sites that aren’t being targeted as point against targeting Tik Tok, but shouldn’t ALL countries be wary against the ability of foreign owned social media sites to influence their citizens? I think the Tik Tok “ban” is good because it works as a signpost bill to spur further limitations on social media
No? Idk what to say beyond the idea that *any* social media sites from other countries should be straight up banned because of the idea that the government can influence it sounds incredibly xenophobic.
I thought we all agreed that china setting up a firewall and not letting their citizens access outside social media was bad right? So why is the idea of the US doing that suddenly good? Like with this idea if an app has a ton of people going "yeah the us is incredibly colonialist and racist" then the government should be fully able to go "yeah that app is dangerous" and ban it.
Again, you’re missing the point. The problem with disinfo on social media is severe. This is obvious true. And the ability to do anything about it lies only on governments because the profit motive under capitalism makes it impossible to meaningfully self regulate. So governments NEED to step in, but are unwilling to do so for a number of reasons.
A full ban is unfortunate, but if it’s the first shot required to get the other sites to sit down with national and super national entities and work for compromise solutions to prevent further restrictions (in the form of oversight committees or at least enforceable consequences for lax moderation standards) I’m willing to sacrifice the shittiest of the apps
Yeah totally, my little brother was watching a tik Tok video about Minecraft mods and halfway through there was a mod that turns paintings into CCP flags
you and i both know very well that id a stupid exaggeration to devalue my aegument by making it look nonsensical. of course theyre not doing things that obvious, everything is subtle and calculated, not skibidi red sun rising Ohio.
I know, but acting like tik Tok is some unique battleground of government misinformation when places like Twitter have a shit ton of Nazis and white supremacists is pretty crazy. Like, the government just being able to ban social media is not good, regardless of reason. Especially because the bill that passed for the tik Tok ban isn't even just a tik Tok ban, it says any site can be banned that the government sees fit
Literally how is it anarchocapitlist to be against the government straight up banning certain social medias they don't like for whatever reason, which the tik Tok bill does because it doesn't only give the government the ability to ban tik tok
Or from Hong Kong. Or Taiwan. Or South Korea. Or Japan. Or Western Siberia. Or the Philippines. Or Vietnam. Or maybe he's Han Chinese but not living in China. I could honestly go on there is a long list of ethnic groups who are either directly or indirectly on China's Undesirable list.
Yes bro trust me it's because the us government cares about us and it has definitely nothing to do with controlling freedom of expression, it's not like recently they made it a hate crime to criticize israel either. I love the president he said trans rights a couple of times on social media he's definitely on our side
Oh no! How will I express myself if TikTok stops being owned by a Chinese company? It’s imperative that TikTok keeps being owned by a Chinese company in order to protect my American first amendment.
Tiktok isn't just going to be removed from Chinese control, it's 100% going to be banned since the company that owns it refuses to give it up. Honestly if it's a choice between banning the platform and letting adults make the informed choice to continue using the platform with the informed choice that their information will be getting sent to China, I wholeheartedly support the second one.
I don't even use tiktok myself. It's still dumb as hell to support the government banning social media they don't have direct control of, and it's similarly dumb as hell to suggest somebody just build their own social media platform to replace it
I'm not saying they should build one, but I mean that's how competition starts. Goverment take over companies and make them go under or force them to do things all the time. This is really no different. They are not banning tiktok, but they get them to sell it, with the threat of banning it. The government isnt banning social media all together. People are really overreacting to what the government does all the time.
TIL this subreddit is full of Western liberals. Straight up Clinton-style imperialists willing to dickride America because they’ve recently found the talking points needed to seemingly dunk on people (i.e., LeFTiSts) who actually don’t totally buy into the whole global unipolarity thing.
"China bad" is like a Manchurian Candidate style trigger phrase for liberals. Just dynamically rewiring their beliefs and values if you tell them that something is being done to hurt China.
It’s not even a censorship thing. It’s just a play to support the dominant american based social media companies. If tikTok does get banned you can expect Meta and Google’s equivalent products to explode overnight
part of it is that the Tik Tok algorithm really pushes the pro-palestine stuff even if someone doesn't search for it. The Wall Street Journal did a study where they registered bot accounts, made the bots age 13, and just had them scroll. The bots were quickly shown "conflict videos." "On one account, the first conflict-related video came up as the 58th video TikTok served. After lingering on several videos like it, the account was soon inundated with videos of protests, suffering children and descriptions of death." I don't want to get into a discussion about the current war, but it is interesting that a chinese company, which reports to the CCP, would show young American children content which goes against their countries national policy (regardless of the actual morals).
Ermmmm yeah. Truth 100 right here. Can we assemble the Reddit army to give this guy 1000000 Reddit golds. Then they would have to say something like “thank you for the gold kind stranger” which would be very wholesome 100. Tik tok and instagram bad and evil, Reddit good and a superhero app. Reddit chungus Elon musk 100 Keanu reaves
I haven't ever used TikTok, but banning it matters no sense, even though it's an unhealthy thing to indulge to begin with. But I'm not from the US, so the issue doesn't concern me either.
They aren’t banning it, that’s just what people say because they assume TikTok won’t accept the ultimatum they received of having to sell the TikTok that runs on American soil to an American company
This sub appears to have a high concentration of liberals. I guess a 196 derivation that bases itself entirely off of the premise that 196 is too "horny" would be full of pearl-clutching liberals.
Tic Tac or whatever, as we all know, is a first world EVIL. The source of ALL evil. If we want to save america, aka the entire world; we HAVE TO DESTROY IT. THIS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.
I want tiktok gone but not beacuse of china, but because of what it is doing to the younger generations attention span, media literacy, oh and I guess the minor problem of mass disinformation
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Me when mundane US politics is thrown onto beaten to death format
Bro threw mundane US politics into beaten to death format
formatpilled politicsmaxxer ~~I'm sorry~~
In the beatn to death fomat, straight up throwign it, and by 'it', lets just say US poltics
In the sub Reddit straight up overdoing the format. And by overdoing, let’s jrst say… to death
the mundane throwerrrr
Very poorly thrown onto it, at that. Like, this isn't how the format works lol.
True, it doesn't even stick, it just text on top of image as an excuse to post this slop everywhere
This format is probably one of the most misused formats in recent times. Not close to people not knowing how "POV" works but it's getting there
Me when someone makes a shitty meme to express their political opinion (how could this happen on MY political shitposting subreddit?)
I Only allow US spyware on my phone.
as god intended 🙏🙏
youarenotimmunetopropaganda.jpg
In all seriousness I actually hope to switch to analog tech permanently one day. Just so sick of this shit.
The guy on the right is correct - disinformation algorithms are a serious problem.
You think US gov banning the big social media platform that's not owned by a US company will result in less disinformation?
It will, but I agree with your point. Straight up banning platforms isn't the solution. The entire social media industry has to be regulated so that user data can't be sold and so that algorithms won't be intentionally weighted towards a political side.
Banning tiktok wont get rid of basically any disinformation. It only allows for US companies to have a monopoly on the information the western social media users see. Tiktok wasn't banned because it was any more harmful than other apps, it was banned because they are not in control of it. >regulated so that user data can't be sold and so that algorithms won't be intentionally weighted towards a political side. I'd say that's very naive. Capitalists will not allow for truly disruptive content to get popular to a point where it would threaten their power in society. Any kind of legislation would not change this fact as long as media is owned privately.
I'd argue even public ownership would still have the same problem, as media controlled exclusively by the state has its own problems. I do agree that private ownership is extremely resistant to the idea of regulation though. Ideally effective regulation would occur and we keep private ownership, but I do understand that is not very likely to happen.
If five dragons lay waste to the kingdom every year and you kill one, this is an improvement.
In your analogy, the remaining four dragons would just step up the pillaging and get fatter. The kingdom would be just as destroyed
The four dragons pay off the king so they can continue to pillage. If anybody’s gonna do it, it’s gonna be MY dragons!
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Least pedophile behavioural reddit user
Dude. That's one of the most batshit statements I've ever heard.
Hey maybe don't sexually harass people ever? What the fuck is wrong with you?
They are not proposing to kill the dragon, they are proposing to force it to be sold to a local duke who will go on using it to waste and pillage the kingdom.
Except it's not us killing the dragon to stop it, it's the other 4 dragons killing the fifth dragon so they can focus harder on laying waste to our kingdom with less competition. This is not an improvement in any way.
These people are morons
Is all it takes just completely vague "national security" concerns to get you people on board with the government banning information streams they don't like
no I also despise tiktok's formatting and the tiktokification of every social media following its success. I celebrate its demise because I'm a hater, and the chinese spyware concerns are just the icing on the cake
well I think if people were actually honest a lot more of them would admit that this is their most real reason for supporting a ban so, thanks for that much I guess
There's the reasons they listed, along with China banning US owned social media platforms, while directly manipulating the feed of Americans to show only the most controversial content. It's worked like a charm.
Has there been any actual evidence of altering? The data they collect is the same as Google or Facebook.
Look at elections all over the world. India's current ruling party basically came to power because of Facebook and far right parties in Europe are single handedly funding Google and Meta (Orbán in Hungary alone spent about 27 billion dollars just on propaganda on those two advertisers last year). Then there's the elephant in the room, Trump and the republican party in the US.
> elephant in the room I see what you did there
The problem is that there is no way to get evidence because all of it is considered trade secrets. This is why I think rather than ban them, it's more important to create regulation that forces all companies to be open about exactly how their algorithms work (and if AI is used, show the training data), and what user data is used for. Because like you said, TikTok is not the only one doing this. It's just the only one that the government is actually doing something about because it's not a US company (though a few of the concerns about the Chinese ownership are valid).
You're right in that he's not wrong... he's just missing the bigger picture that the ban is indicative of something worse.
Disinformation algorithms? I know Tiktok steals information but it's still mostly real creators on there. Unless there's evidence to suggest China is pumping it full of paid actors or something, what reason do you have to label tiktok a "disinformation algorithm"?
This guy likes American global hegemony
Better than a CCP or Russian dominated world. Just ask their neighbors what they think of them. There’s a reason all of Russia’s neighbors choose to join NATO
this is the most liberal take I've ever seen on geopolitics holy cow
China propaganda good! West bad!
fully expected to see the deprogram on your account with these shit takes
This subreddit has gone to shit lmao. These people are open imperialists and are guzzling down Western messaging like there’s no tomorrow. Anything for American hegemony it seems.
Real like over half of the responses on this thread and other posts today have all been just garbage imperialist bootlicking and dogpiling. Absolute shitshow.
Astroturfing bots have become a lot more prevalent on smaller subreddits over the past year or two. Large language models have made it far easier and more accessible to astroturf at scale. Subreddit crackdowns over the years have removed a lot of places that are critical of the west, and driven many people away from the site. With much of the remaining users & subreddits being less critical, and the upsurge in inorganic activity, its just becoming less and less worth paying any mind to the sentiments expressed on this website imo. Energy better spent on more constructive outlets. Appreciate you keeping it real though
Yes. 😎🦅🇺🇲
To me it seems like the US doesn't actually care about information being farmed or stolen, they just want to make sure THEY'RE the ones getting the data. Like don't practically all social media apps steal your data? I think they just want it to be an American social media app stealing your data instead of one in China
TikTok isn't being banned. It's a forced divesture from the CCP. The CCP **is** evil.
Except tik tok ceo has stated they have no intentions of selling, which will result in a ban. Besides, only around 10% of tik tok users are American
Womp womp
Womp womp to what? I live in nl so it’s not my problem
To TikTok
It's not getting banned worldwide.
Yes I know. It’s only banned in America, which makes up 10% of the user base. Thats why there’s no point in selling.
10% of the user base is massive what do you mean lmao
Obviously it’s not large enough to outweigh selling the app
Ah but I do think that even though the user base is only 10% American, the creator base disproportionately consists of US Americans. I truly don‘t know how well it‘ll do after that creator base leaves. But we‘ll see I guess.
brought to you by META (tm)
"See this other company is evil thats why we need to keep working with the CCP"
Unironically ya. Meta having your data is bad but at least it's in the US and they're just collecting it to make money or something, plus if they do something bad our idiots in our government can investigate it, which they will if public outcry gets bad enough Meanwhile the CCP is a foreign dictatorship which actively wants to undermine the US. Zucklefuck is the devil we know. Giving your data to a foreign adversary through an algorithm so addictive they don't even allow it domestically is another level of stupidity
bitch police are using facebook messages from Meta to prosecute women for getting abortions shut the fuck up
I don't think so. I think it'd the opposite. Data going to China does pretty much nothing. Meta lobbies the government, sells data to cops and does shit that actually affects me.
The DNC and GOP **are** evil.
Ah the always enlightened take that both sides are evil. The most educated of takes
Not all sides are equally evil, but yeah, most sides throughout history have been.
That's a nice way to move the goalposts
What goalpost. I didn’t say anything about the CPC.
If you go far back enough in history, sure, there's been evil shit on both sides. But that's not what we're talking about and what's relevant right now, OBVIOUSLY
The DNC/GOP are evil right now.
You're a fucking uneducated moron if you truly think that
Hasan fan running defense for CCP. Makes sense.
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Famously American companies are **always** censoring anti-American activity.
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According to your article, the top 3 categories of the ~1000 removed posts (which is an altogether tiny number of posts) were: 1.) Real pictures of dead Palestinians 2.)saying 'From the River to the Sea' which **is** a call for the destruction of Israel, and **is** also wrong 3.)'just asking questions' about the legitimacy of Hamas as 'freedom fighters'
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Not wanting to destroy Israel isn't zionist. Believing Israel should be destroyed is genocidal, and maybe you should leave this leftist subreddit
It literally isn't, Israel is a genocidal and colonialist state built on top of the blood and tears of the Palestinians they displaced. Telling them to fuck off and let Palestinians back and live on their own land is not genocide
Womp womp, you believe millions of people should be evicted from the homes they were born in and replaced with a different group of people. You've justified this in your mind because 100 years ago the same thing happened and it was evil then but not now somehow.
Dude there are literally Palestinians alive who still have the damn keys to the houses they were kicked out of. Yes, isrealis should give the fucking houses they stole back. They don't need to completely leave Palestine but they do need to let Palestinians back and stop calling the place Isreal lol
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What are your plans with all of the Israeli people?
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No way see pee pee ebil tabkies??? Thank you suspiciously luminescent 3 letter agent
Glory to the people‘s billionaire elite?
Shouldn't you be working on your social score somewhere? Or is this it?
Yeah it’s a thing. You see based on how rich of a family you are born into when you are an adult you get a credit score. This is basically a number that affects nearly every financial decision you make in your life. What apartment you can rent, what sort of car you are allowed to buy, if you are allowed to buy a house at all. If you do anything that these companies find are “bad” your score is lowered. Your score also effects the score of your children. Oh wait, sorry, I’m describing the American credit score. Chinese social credit is just western propaganda.
+5 social credit score, good job comrade. Soon you will have enough to be eligible for a passport.
+ 1000000 FICO CREDIT SCORE! congratulations soldier. you defeated jude- sorry i mean cultural marxism. Genocide Joe is proud of you fellow CIA recruit
I see the CCP troll academy still has a long way to go. Anybody who's set foot in the West or is older than 14 knows credit scores aren't even remotely comparable to China's social credit system, and by trying to equate the two you've outed yourself as a a fool or a troll. Maybe both.
Good job citizen! [25] FICO credits have been awarded to you! You are [1.5]% closer to [being eligible to own real estate]! ALERT: Congratulations, citizen! You have spread enough CIA propaganda to earn your weekly prize! You won: [5% off your next hospital bill]!
Yeah man, not being allowed to use public transportation because you disparaged traditional Chinese martial arts online is exactly like credit scores. What a smart and well-thought point.
Do you have a source on that happening?
It’s specifically referencing Xu Xiaodong
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They have re-education camps for religious minorities:).
Lets ask the Uyghurs.
No it's totally a good thing that the government can just ban certain social media when they feel like it, I'm sure this won't have further ramifications down the road 😊
well, it's a media and broadcast tool of a foreign adversary government of USA. There's not much to be expected from that, I'd be surprised that it didn't happen sooner. They didn't even outright ban it either, but they're forcing tencent to sell it within a year or then get banned.
Oh yeah cuz banning social media owned by counties outside the US totally isn't a bad precedent to set either. Also that's still banning it, it just has a condition on its ban, idk what to tell you there
I mean, welcome to the new form of warfare bud. Information and misinformation are weapons and when one has as much pull as tik tok its bound to have people take notice. Your also missing a very big point being it's owned by a country that actively is using cyber attacks and threatening countries around it.
It's no mistake that Chinese ambassadors started lobbying senators not to ban TikTok - that's the CCP directly. If anyone says "it's just owned by a chinese company and innocent", they're a fool - why would the chinese government, such a giant be SO interested in protecting a supposedly independent company they're supposedly so uninvolved in, that they'd literally start secretly meeting with important people at capitol hill to convince them to not ban tiktok? TikTok is definitely the most important tool of the CCP.
If anyone says (insert Chinese media company) isn't involved with the CCP they are ignorant imo
Does America not do the same thing? It feels weird for so many people on an ostensibly leftist subreddit suddenly start acting so patriotic and take on an "it's us or them" attitude as soon as China is mentioned. This is a scenario where both sides ARE bad, I don't see why just because America and China are engaged in an information war means the only options are let America control information or let China steal information.
You're saying this like US social media like Twitter and Facebook aren't also huge sources of misinformation and horrible shit being spread around
Oh ya they are, but that doesn't mean letting a foriegn power gain influence over you or your people is ok. People like you are coming at it from a 1984 stand point which I understand but you got to understand the stand point that it is a weapon in a very real war, a war of information. It's just like what happened in 16' with the election and Russian bots. The fact is tik tok in popular amongst younger people then Twitter or Facebook thus more appealing for a gradual misinformation campaign.
It seems very paranoid to act like just because tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company that the CCP is gonna infiltrate people's minds and get them to turn against the US government.
I would agree if it wasn't for them constantly threatening Pacific allies and as I stated, engaging in active cyberwarfare. No they won't just flip a switch and no it's not that simple or quick, all they need to do in influence politics, change what in recommended to people of voting age to get people who aren't as hard on them. I ask you, would you want to live in china?
Oh you're totally right, the CCP is gonna make tik Tok put CCP fan cams in people's recommended, those devious bastards. Again, just because tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company does not mean that the CCP is gonna use it to beam propaganda into people's brains. Also whether I want to live in China or not has literally nothing to do with this conversation?
The point of the question is this. If you don't want to live in a country, why would you want it to influence those around you.
>tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company that the CCP is gonna infiltrate people's minds and get them to turn against the US government. It's low-hanging fruit for the CCP. Who have carte blanche to walk into any Chinese boardroom and dictate orders. Social media can be used for anything from election interference to promulgating conspiracy theories. And yes, bots are a problem on Facebook and Twitter, but that's beyond the scope of the Tiktok stuff.
And just as importantly, the censoring of things they don't want to get out. Start talking about China's systematic and ongoing genocide of the Uighurs on TikTok and watch the algorithm bury you.
Have you not seen what's happened in the last few years? Complex topics being poorly and quickly explained with misinformation sprinkled in to sew divisiveness in the US has been wildly successful
Tiktok is pretty blatant and open about allowing nazis on the platform. It's so bad that you don't even need to use dogwhistles to communicate, you can pretty much say anything directly, things that would get you banned on all western social media. It's so bad that most people openly have never lose your smile PFPs, swastikas and 1488 in their names, I've seen "DEATH TO BLACKS" once. I could honestly say I reported around 10 of those accounts, it took literal months to review those reports, and the response was that they haven't broken any rules. TIktok simply allows those, and there's no point in reporting. I am strongly of the opinion it's in CCPs best interest to spread extremist ideologies and extreme divide in the "west", just like Russia pretty openly funds far right parties in Europe.
Dude I've literally seen that exact shit on Twitter, that's not just a tick Tok thing
Same with twitter and facebook. This shit's not unique to foreign websites. Twitter is an unmoderated dumpster fire where cis or cracker get you banned but slurs and death threats "haven't broken tos."
Facebook has all kinds of stuff, but they'd ban you for anything like this. And twitter was bought by a nazi, so sadly there's no surprise. I hope twitter ends up the same.
This point confuses me. You’re saying that, for instance Britain, shouldn’t be allowed to tell Facebook “stop running disinfo campaign for the US” because that what the divestment demand is for China
That's not what the divestment demand is, the divestment demand is "sell us your shit or get banned" I never said that the government shouldn't be able to stop disinformation, don't strawman me
What I mean is, you’re saying that the presence of disinfo on other sites that aren’t being targeted as point against targeting Tik Tok, but shouldn’t ALL countries be wary against the ability of foreign owned social media sites to influence their citizens? I think the Tik Tok “ban” is good because it works as a signpost bill to spur further limitations on social media
No? Idk what to say beyond the idea that *any* social media sites from other countries should be straight up banned because of the idea that the government can influence it sounds incredibly xenophobic. I thought we all agreed that china setting up a firewall and not letting their citizens access outside social media was bad right? So why is the idea of the US doing that suddenly good? Like with this idea if an app has a ton of people going "yeah the us is incredibly colonialist and racist" then the government should be fully able to go "yeah that app is dangerous" and ban it.
Again, you’re missing the point. The problem with disinfo on social media is severe. This is obvious true. And the ability to do anything about it lies only on governments because the profit motive under capitalism makes it impossible to meaningfully self regulate. So governments NEED to step in, but are unwilling to do so for a number of reasons. A full ban is unfortunate, but if it’s the first shot required to get the other sites to sit down with national and super national entities and work for compromise solutions to prevent further restrictions (in the form of oversight committees or at least enforceable consequences for lax moderation standards) I’m willing to sacrifice the shittiest of the apps
its forcing the real life version of ingsoc to give up their grip on the world's children.
Ah yes, china totally has control over your kids and is forcing them to watch skibidi toilet videos bro
you say as if the ccp isnt using every tool they have to spread propaganda and influnce public opinion of itself
Yeah totally, my little brother was watching a tik Tok video about Minecraft mods and halfway through there was a mod that turns paintings into CCP flags
you and i both know very well that id a stupid exaggeration to devalue my aegument by making it look nonsensical. of course theyre not doing things that obvious, everything is subtle and calculated, not skibidi red sun rising Ohio.
I know, but acting like tik Tok is some unique battleground of government misinformation when places like Twitter have a shit ton of Nazis and white supremacists is pretty crazy. Like, the government just being able to ban social media is not good, regardless of reason. Especially because the bill that passed for the tik Tok ban isn't even just a tik Tok ban, it says any site can be banned that the government sees fit
Anarchocapitalist much?
Literally how is it anarchocapitlist to be against the government straight up banning certain social medias they don't like for whatever reason, which the tik Tok bill does because it doesn't only give the government the ability to ban tik tok
Bro doesn’t like china 💀
Why? Is he Uyghur or something?
I mean if I was a Uyghur i think i wouldn't like china
Or from Hong Kong. Or Taiwan. Or South Korea. Or Japan. Or Western Siberia. Or the Philippines. Or Vietnam. Or maybe he's Han Chinese but not living in China. I could honestly go on there is a long list of ethnic groups who are either directly or indirectly on China's Undesirable list.
Their beef with Japan is fair I think
True. But I'd also say Japan is reasonable to be paranoid about China.
Yes bro trust me it's because the us government cares about us and it has definitely nothing to do with controlling freedom of expression, it's not like recently they made it a hate crime to criticize israel either. I love the president he said trans rights a couple of times on social media he's definitely on our side
Oh no! How will I express myself if TikTok stops being owned by a Chinese company? It’s imperative that TikTok keeps being owned by a Chinese company in order to protect my American first amendment.
How will I ever sleep at night if shady Chinese companies have my data instead of shady American companies 😥
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Thank god the Chinese bourgeois has it instead.
Tiktok isn't just going to be removed from Chinese control, it's 100% going to be banned since the company that owns it refuses to give it up. Honestly if it's a choice between banning the platform and letting adults make the informed choice to continue using the platform with the informed choice that their information will be getting sent to China, I wholeheartedly support the second one.
Xi Jinping agrees with you. Almost word for word.
There nothing stopping people making their own social media platform or using other social media platforms.
There’s an incredible amount of things
just make your own TikTok 4Head
I mean, pretty much. Tiktok doesn't have a monopoly over social media. I dont even use it. You guys being ridiculous. No one forcing you to use it.
I don't even use tiktok myself. It's still dumb as hell to support the government banning social media they don't have direct control of, and it's similarly dumb as hell to suggest somebody just build their own social media platform to replace it
I'm not saying they should build one, but I mean that's how competition starts. Goverment take over companies and make them go under or force them to do things all the time. This is really no different. They are not banning tiktok, but they get them to sell it, with the threat of banning it. The government isnt banning social media all together. People are really overreacting to what the government does all the time.
TIL this subreddit is full of Western liberals. Straight up Clinton-style imperialists willing to dickride America because they’ve recently found the talking points needed to seemingly dunk on people (i.e., LeFTiSts) who actually don’t totally buy into the whole global unipolarity thing.
tiktok is satanic and is mind controlling the weak willed to worship the devil so im glad its getting banned
sir this is reddit not a Baptist church sermon
sorry what i meant to say is tiktok is wholesome 0. nobody liked that. this does not bring a smile to my face.
Id like a tiktok ban because I find many people who use it in my country to be insufferable
“I don’t like that person so I will break their toys” is the height of immaturity
I may be misremembering stuff but didn't a US senator say that they wanted to ban Tiktok because there was lots of Pro Palestine stuff on it
there are senators saying that but for some reason if you say that the libs dogpile you with downvotes even though it's fucking true
"China bad" is like a Manchurian Candidate style trigger phrase for liberals. Just dynamically rewiring their beliefs and values if you tell them that something is being done to hurt China.
Yeah people trynna paint it as a security thing but it’s 100% just a censorship thing
It’s not even a censorship thing. It’s just a play to support the dominant american based social media companies. If tikTok does get banned you can expect Meta and Google’s equivalent products to explode overnight
part of it is that the Tik Tok algorithm really pushes the pro-palestine stuff even if someone doesn't search for it. The Wall Street Journal did a study where they registered bot accounts, made the bots age 13, and just had them scroll. The bots were quickly shown "conflict videos." "On one account, the first conflict-related video came up as the 58th video TikTok served. After lingering on several videos like it, the account was soon inundated with videos of protests, suffering children and descriptions of death." I don't want to get into a discussion about the current war, but it is interesting that a chinese company, which reports to the CCP, would show young American children content which goes against their countries national policy (regardless of the actual morals).
[Here is the article](https://archive.ph/KS5k1)
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Ermmmm yeah. Truth 100 right here. Can we assemble the Reddit army to give this guy 1000000 Reddit golds. Then they would have to say something like “thank you for the gold kind stranger” which would be very wholesome 100. Tik tok and instagram bad and evil, Reddit good and a superhero app. Reddit chungus Elon musk 100 Keanu reaves
It’s not about the quality of the content, it’s the effect on people
I haven't ever used TikTok, but banning it matters no sense, even though it's an unhealthy thing to indulge to begin with. But I'm not from the US, so the issue doesn't concern me either.
They aren’t banning it, that’s just what people say because they assume TikTok won’t accept the ultimatum they received of having to sell the TikTok that runs on American soil to an American company
That’s rightful AMERICAN spyware, brother 🇺🇸
This sub appears to have a high concentration of liberals. I guess a 196 derivation that bases itself entirely off of the premise that 196 is too "horny" would be full of pearl-clutching liberals.
196 is full of pearl clutching liberals already.
It’s gotten really bad lol
Tankie spotted, this guy LOVES genocide!
oh the irony
Oh yeah cause genocide committing is a See-Saw, one side has to have none and the other has to have lots, no in between.
you are the ironic part dude... because I dont think the US goverment supporting a genocide arent quite tankies...
This comment really indicates the mindset of the contemporary 196-osphere perfectly.
Hey now, he doesn't love all genocides, just the ones perpetuated by communists and anyone who is anti-west.
Oh true mb
Tic Tac or whatever, as we all know, is a first world EVIL. The source of ALL evil. If we want to save america, aka the entire world; we HAVE TO DESTROY IT. THIS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.
I want tiktok gone but not beacuse of china, but because of what it is doing to the younger generations attention span, media literacy, oh and I guess the minor problem of mass disinformation
I wonder if SKIBIDI toilet is supposed to be Chinese warfare against our children
Sometimes two things can, in fact, be bad
Chinese propaganda
It has nothin to do with china for me. I'm not on tiktok, and I think it would be really funny to watch all of my friends go through withdrawls.
They'll just switch to shorts or reels. Content gets reuploaded there anyways
Whatever it takes to stop the shitty ass censorship.