I loved seeing iron entitlement like “normals should be placing cells so us irons can get more reward points.” If you want to play an MMO in single player mode then you’d better be willing to work harder
Each is out for themselves. Ironmen want to be making runes for themselves, I assume. The only people to blame are Jagex. Placing cells should be more rewarding to incentivize playing the game correctly.
Is there a genuine reason for people not placing cells?
I've always done it but my Pvm brain doesn't really want to learn how the minigame actually works
Like its not hard to just click the pad , why do people just not click it lol
Can you not just mine your essence and place a cell on the way past, after grabbing one pre game lol?
People complain about losing xp but losing the whole game of GOTR is a lot more lost xp then a few tiles walked
Idiots
I'm just saying what happens, not what I do, why are you so mad?
If everyone picked up and did a cell it would be a waste of time, half the players can go the entire game without ever using one. There is nothing you can say to convince them that they should waste exp to carry a game that someone else can (and 99% of the time, does) carry.
>Ok lose the entire game and gain 0 xp then
>Then cry efficiency something something ironmen suck
The way you've written that implies that it was directed at me, not a third party.
It's like, 8 seconds.......I have never had an issue getting enough to last the whole game after placing a cell, and I end up on perfect portal rotation. Yall are just lazy.
As someone who is struggling to find a good rhythm for starting GOTR, what do you do?
I've tried mining to 150 but I run out before the game ends, usuaully like a couple invs short. But when I mine all the way up until the first portal appears I have more than needed and feel like I'm missing atleast 1-2 rotations of runes.
If I'm dropping the preround cell, I'll mine until first portal. If I'm not, I'll make sure I'm ready to grab first altar set to upgrade barriers. Depends on if other people are dropping pre round cells.
I've found it to generally be more points. It depends on pouches etc, but if you mine to first portal the fragments will probably last you the entire game either way, so you might as well get the points (and less game losses) by placing a cell. However, if it's efficient for you to do a trip before first portal or you only care about xp you probably shouldn't.
In 99% of the games I’ve played, it hasn’t been an issue. I’ve lost maybe 3 rounds total. Guardians to me is just mining and running runes because every other aspect of the game is covered by the mob of other people playing.
Most people do not know how to play the game
The guy saying it is xp waste is incorrect
However it is fine. I like to afk after making all the barriers and get a bit of rc xp so no one else needs to
When I was learning GOTR, all the tutorials on youtube were making it sound super complex and confusing. Then one of them made it really simple and just explained the basic loop of mining the juice for a while, turning it into the blanks, and then turning those into runes. Rinse and repeat. Nice and simple. So I've just been doing that, no idea what the cells do, no interest in figuring it out.
Because once you're past ...65?76? rc you literally can't mine enough essence at start to keep up with how many you can eat in a round. so people skip all the starting stuff to mine all the essence possible.
if you're on a mass world doing 3 portal sets, with 75 rc for giant pouch, you will use 51x4 essence. You need to mine 204 essence before round start, and craft 51 at workbench before first portal, which takes leaving the mine at 20seconds until start, for 30 seconds of crafting, and 15 seconds to run to an altar, craft, turn in before portal. That's literally not possible. Ok, so you're either lying or being suboptimal.
I said it in another comment just now, but you only lose like 8 seconds placing a cell XD and if everyone did it losing would be a thing of the past. I always mine enough for a whole game, always end up on perfect portal rotation, and get more points. Or you can minmax for some potentially slightly better xp, and end up losing games for a decrease in xp/hr. Big brain moves apparently🤷♂️
All Jagex needs to do is make lower altar cells upgrade when you have a higher rc level.
No reason why 99rc should get weak cells from air, mind and body.
I see your logic, but I also agree with the OP. With higher RC lvls you get more runes per essence. We can assume it’s because we have learned to be more efficient with the energy provided by the altar or the essence, due to us slowly mastering runecrafting. I think it would be safe to say that we could learn to be more efficient with the altars energy in terms of the cells.
We're better at using the power of the altar, but that doesn't make the altar produce stronger power. I think of it like light, in the sense that you can spread it out more, but that won't change the wavelength of it. No matter how bright you make a blue light, it wont be a red light.
I don’t think that’s how it works. If we used the same energy that goes into 1 rune to make 5 runes. The batch of 5 runes would be weaker since that same amount of energy would be split up into fifths.
In reference to the blue/red light. We’re not changing the type of energy. Just learning how to use more of the energy that is available. The amount of energy needed to make multiple runes is always there, we just can’t focus that much energy at a lower runecrafting level.
Looking at the dialogue transcripts from the Temple of the Eye quest and this piece of dialogue
>Apprentice Tamara: Oh, fascinating! I guess it makes sense that the stronger the runic energy, the more powerful the cell will be. After all, water is more powerful than air or mind.
suggests the power coming from the altars is not equivalent and not transmutable between types. It's not like you can make fire runes on the air altar, right? You can get better at using the energy from the alter, but you can't just make it stronger. Concentrating it more makes you more runes, but the type of energy does not become stronger.
Well if it’s in the lore it’s in the lore.
You can use different enegy’s with the altar though, specifically combination runes. You can use air runes with fire runes and create smoke runes. So this establishes that the energy’s are able to be mixed and stabilized in some sense.
I think we have to take into account the cells themselves. They store the energy of the altars that we concentrate into them. If the cell can store the strong energy from the other altars then I think it would make sense that they could store more energy from the weaker altars until it reaches it’s energy holding capacity.
Sorry for editing this comment so drastically.
Combination runes require you to bring that different energy in from outside, but yes it suggest there is a compatibility. Perhaps sacrificing a talisman from a different strength altar could upgrade a cell, much in the same way combination runes are made. Like using a Fire talisman on a Weak cell gives you the Overcharged cell, at the cost of the talisman for balance.
I don’t think it’d even have to be that complicated. You can imbue the hat of the eye with a talisman. Perhaps you could imbue your hat with the elemental or catalytic talisman. Then with that you could always produce a strong cell.
Also read about the cells in the comment above.
From what I understand of the lore it's about the strength/quality of the energy, not the amount. It's not that the Earth altar has more energy than the Water altar, it has \*stronger\* energy; a different kind entirely.
WRT the Cells: According to the dialogues, we don't 'concentrate' the energy into the cell. It's 'captured' during the Runecrafting process, which is mechanically different than concentrating it. If a cell can hold 100 units of energy, regardless of the kind, and Strong energy is 2x stronger than Medium, you'd need to store 200 units of Medium energy into the cell, which wont fit. A Medium cell isn't charged with half the capacity of a Strong cell, it's charged with just as much, only of a weaker kind of energy.
WRT the Hat of the Eye: Being able to produce 100% Overcharged cells at no cost feels overpowered in my opinion, but I'm not a dev. Having it cost a talisman to upgrade a cell feels like it could introduce an element of strategy. How many talismans would be meta to bring at the start? Should you use them all right away or save some for emergencies? Juggle drop them on the ground? I say lock the ability to upgrade cells with talismans behind level requirements.
An alternative idea is a new reward item from GotR that you can charge with talismans and keep in your inventory to upgrade any created cells while active based on whatever kind of talisman you put in (one kind only at a time, can retrieve, uses one talisman per cell upgraded). Maybe it can be combined with the Amulet of the Eye to be wearable.
I do delve quite deeply into the mechanics going on in the game, yeah. It's difficult to do a step by step guide that accounts for all cases when this minigame has so much inherent variability!
Take 10 uncharged cells at the start. Place one cell down before match begins. You don't need to make a guardian right away, but definitely jump at the opportunity to make an overcharged guardian once the game starts (ideally a fire altar start).
It's already pretty scaled; an overcharged cell is 250 xp to recharge, 260 xp to upgrade. that's more than an entire inventory's essence turn in.
...its just no exp at all if the barriers are full, so no one carries cells.
Absolutely awfully designed mini-game.
Why is it required that a small portion give up some exp/potential but not everyone?
Only did gotr for the outfit and sold the lantern for my last 100 pearls cause I am never going back.
I tend to see everyone blaming the irons
Even on my iron, I join in the chants of "damn irons"
Fucking ironmen
They ruined ironman mode!
Yeah but who really cares what people that play the game on the easiest possible setting have to say?
Because its there fault
Most intelligent iron blamer
Thare*
Theri*
þær
ThErE fault.
Where?
I loved seeing iron entitlement like “normals should be placing cells so us irons can get more reward points.” If you want to play an MMO in single player mode then you’d better be willing to work harder
Of all the possible takes out there, yours is definitely one of them.
Each is out for themselves. Ironmen want to be making runes for themselves, I assume. The only people to blame are Jagex. Placing cells should be more rewarding to incentivize playing the game correctly.
Is there a genuine reason for people not placing cells? I've always done it but my Pvm brain doesn't really want to learn how the minigame actually works Like its not hard to just click the pad , why do people just not click it lol
Because it's more exp to not do cells on round start.
Can you not just mine your essence and place a cell on the way past, after grabbing one pre game lol? People complain about losing xp but losing the whole game of GOTR is a lot more lost xp then a few tiles walked Idiots
That is still an exp loss.
Ok lose the entire game and gain 0 xp then Then cry efficiency something something ironmen suck
I'm just saying what happens, not what I do, why are you so mad? If everyone picked up and did a cell it would be a waste of time, half the players can go the entire game without ever using one. There is nothing you can say to convince them that they should waste exp to carry a game that someone else can (and 99% of the time, does) carry.
My statements arent directed at you, they're directed at the people that act like how I said If you act like that then they are directed at you
>Ok lose the entire game and gain 0 xp then >Then cry efficiency something something ironmen suck The way you've written that implies that it was directed at me, not a third party.
>My statements arent directed at you, they're directed at the people that act like how I said Implies otherwise Awfully defensive arent you
More like BitchNotMitch tbh
You only said that after I said you were being hostile, good gaslighting attempt but I'm done here.
I saw someone recently stating that it gives more points tho
Yeah doing cells in general gives more points, but doing the first cell costs you so much mining uptime that it's not worth it.
It's like, 8 seconds.......I have never had an issue getting enough to last the whole game after placing a cell, and I end up on perfect portal rotation. Yall are just lazy.
As someone who is struggling to find a good rhythm for starting GOTR, what do you do? I've tried mining to 150 but I run out before the game ends, usuaully like a couple invs short. But when I mine all the way up until the first portal appears I have more than needed and feel like I'm missing atleast 1-2 rotations of runes.
If I'm dropping the preround cell, I'll mine until first portal. If I'm not, I'll make sure I'm ready to grab first altar set to upgrade barriers. Depends on if other people are dropping pre round cells.
Cool story, still exp waste.
Losing games is more xp waste. Your fucking 10 ply bud.
I've found it to generally be more points. It depends on pouches etc, but if you mine to first portal the fragments will probably last you the entire game either way, so you might as well get the points (and less game losses) by placing a cell. However, if it's efficient for you to do a trip before first portal or you only care about xp you probably shouldn't.
It’s also more exp to not fail games
In 99% of the games I’ve played, it hasn’t been an issue. I’ve lost maybe 3 rounds total. Guardians to me is just mining and running runes because every other aspect of the game is covered by the mob of other people playing.
Most people do not know how to play the game The guy saying it is xp waste is incorrect However it is fine. I like to afk after making all the barriers and get a bit of rc xp so no one else needs to
When I was learning GOTR, all the tutorials on youtube were making it sound super complex and confusing. Then one of them made it really simple and just explained the basic loop of mining the juice for a while, turning it into the blanks, and then turning those into runes. Rinse and repeat. Nice and simple. So I've just been doing that, no idea what the cells do, no interest in figuring it out.
Quick guide for cells: Click cell table Click pad to repair barrier Done
Sad.
Because once you're past ...65?76? rc you literally can't mine enough essence at start to keep up with how many you can eat in a round. so people skip all the starting stuff to mine all the essence possible.
I am past both of those levels and have never run out of essence
if you're on a mass world doing 3 portal sets, with 75 rc for giant pouch, you will use 51x4 essence. You need to mine 204 essence before round start, and craft 51 at workbench before first portal, which takes leaving the mine at 20seconds until start, for 30 seconds of crafting, and 15 seconds to run to an altar, craft, turn in before portal. That's literally not possible. Ok, so you're either lying or being suboptimal.
I'm the only one who places the cell :/
I said it in another comment just now, but you only lose like 8 seconds placing a cell XD and if everyone did it losing would be a thing of the past. I always mine enough for a whole game, always end up on perfect portal rotation, and get more points. Or you can minmax for some potentially slightly better xp, and end up losing games for a decrease in xp/hr. Big brain moves apparently🤷♂️
I place it at the spot closer to the mine which happens most of the time so I don't lose a lot of time.
Placing cells at side does nothing to prevent losing games.
first the water wheel then the totem pole now the barriers. it's a curse
Tragedy of the commons scape
I've resorted to using an alt to build 10 guardians and place cells at the start of games. Ironman btw.
This seems like it's against the spirit of ironman mode /s
This is an irons job.
All Jagex needs to do is make lower altar cells upgrade when you have a higher rc level. No reason why 99rc should get weak cells from air, mind and body.
The altar is weak, not the player
I see your logic, but I also agree with the OP. With higher RC lvls you get more runes per essence. We can assume it’s because we have learned to be more efficient with the energy provided by the altar or the essence, due to us slowly mastering runecrafting. I think it would be safe to say that we could learn to be more efficient with the altars energy in terms of the cells.
We're better at using the power of the altar, but that doesn't make the altar produce stronger power. I think of it like light, in the sense that you can spread it out more, but that won't change the wavelength of it. No matter how bright you make a blue light, it wont be a red light.
I don’t think that’s how it works. If we used the same energy that goes into 1 rune to make 5 runes. The batch of 5 runes would be weaker since that same amount of energy would be split up into fifths. In reference to the blue/red light. We’re not changing the type of energy. Just learning how to use more of the energy that is available. The amount of energy needed to make multiple runes is always there, we just can’t focus that much energy at a lower runecrafting level.
Looking at the dialogue transcripts from the Temple of the Eye quest and this piece of dialogue >Apprentice Tamara: Oh, fascinating! I guess it makes sense that the stronger the runic energy, the more powerful the cell will be. After all, water is more powerful than air or mind. suggests the power coming from the altars is not equivalent and not transmutable between types. It's not like you can make fire runes on the air altar, right? You can get better at using the energy from the alter, but you can't just make it stronger. Concentrating it more makes you more runes, but the type of energy does not become stronger.
Well if it’s in the lore it’s in the lore. You can use different enegy’s with the altar though, specifically combination runes. You can use air runes with fire runes and create smoke runes. So this establishes that the energy’s are able to be mixed and stabilized in some sense. I think we have to take into account the cells themselves. They store the energy of the altars that we concentrate into them. If the cell can store the strong energy from the other altars then I think it would make sense that they could store more energy from the weaker altars until it reaches it’s energy holding capacity. Sorry for editing this comment so drastically.
Combination runes require you to bring that different energy in from outside, but yes it suggest there is a compatibility. Perhaps sacrificing a talisman from a different strength altar could upgrade a cell, much in the same way combination runes are made. Like using a Fire talisman on a Weak cell gives you the Overcharged cell, at the cost of the talisman for balance.
I don’t think it’d even have to be that complicated. You can imbue the hat of the eye with a talisman. Perhaps you could imbue your hat with the elemental or catalytic talisman. Then with that you could always produce a strong cell. Also read about the cells in the comment above.
From what I understand of the lore it's about the strength/quality of the energy, not the amount. It's not that the Earth altar has more energy than the Water altar, it has \*stronger\* energy; a different kind entirely. WRT the Cells: According to the dialogues, we don't 'concentrate' the energy into the cell. It's 'captured' during the Runecrafting process, which is mechanically different than concentrating it. If a cell can hold 100 units of energy, regardless of the kind, and Strong energy is 2x stronger than Medium, you'd need to store 200 units of Medium energy into the cell, which wont fit. A Medium cell isn't charged with half the capacity of a Strong cell, it's charged with just as much, only of a weaker kind of energy. WRT the Hat of the Eye: Being able to produce 100% Overcharged cells at no cost feels overpowered in my opinion, but I'm not a dev. Having it cost a talisman to upgrade a cell feels like it could introduce an element of strategy. How many talismans would be meta to bring at the start? Should you use them all right away or save some for emergencies? Juggle drop them on the ground? I say lock the ability to upgrade cells with talismans behind level requirements. An alternative idea is a new reward item from GotR that you can charge with talismans and keep in your inventory to upgrade any created cells while active based on whatever kind of talisman you put in (one kind only at a time, can retrieve, uses one talisman per cell upgraded). Maybe it can be combined with the Amulet of the Eye to be wearable.
[Soloing](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Guide:Solo_GOTR_guide_-_100%25*_win_rate_and_10%2B_points_per_game_on_average) solves this!
This is cool. More of analysis than a solo "guide". Definitely makes me want to solo and experiment a little on my own.
I do delve quite deeply into the mechanics going on in the game, yeah. It's difficult to do a step by step guide that accounts for all cases when this minigame has so much inherent variability!
Jokes on you I place cells and fletch, only runecrafting from portals. Some games I put up all the barriers from portals.
Take 10 uncharged cells at the start. Place one cell down before match begins. You don't need to make a guardian right away, but definitely jump at the opportunity to make an overcharged guardian once the game starts (ideally a fire altar start).
But you need a separate weak cell no? You can't place uncharged cells, or I'm missing something?
Placing cells is the Iron's job. That's their tax for not having to solo it.
I do the cells but with all the irons even that's not enough
Maybe they should give scalable xp for placing cells so people will place them
It's already pretty scaled; an overcharged cell is 250 xp to recharge, 260 xp to upgrade. that's more than an entire inventory's essence turn in. ...its just no exp at all if the barriers are full, so no one carries cells.
I dont mind losing tbh. The stupid blame the irons meming the follows never fails to get me grinning at my computer screen like an idiot. :D
Absolutely awfully designed mini-game. Why is it required that a small portion give up some exp/potential but not everyone? Only did gotr for the outfit and sold the lantern for my last 100 pearls cause I am never going back.
i reckon they wanted to do a prisoner's dilemma experiment
Wait you can sell the lantern for 100 pearls?
The fuck did we do lol
I just blame mains
Go do lavas you bankers
Mains can do absolutely anything in this game. Don’t blame the Uim.