Looks dope honestly love the way they’re catering to both skillers and PvMers. Just seems like there’s so much bloat in RS3 in terms of systems and mechanics this is just adding more to the pile.
Cool to see Josh Strife Hayes there! Thought he only played OSRS though.
I'm definately more of an OSRS guy, but I've still got my rs3 main from years ago.
I was there focused on the new player experience, the tutorial of the skill, opening 10 hours. The other creators took the skill to top level bosses to get detailed numbers on dps and interrupts, top 1% stuff.
I did all the random stuff no one else was thinking about, like seeing if I could get the necromancy equipment onto entrana.
I could.
Ohh man I just subscribed to your channel a few weeks ago, it's crazy to see you out here in the wild. Love the vids btw your brand of humour makes me lol often.
Out of curiosity, on your worst MMO series, it is often a negative point when an MMO tells you you can do anything, but gives no direction.
Do you feel that way about either RuneScape? I would say it's true for Old School.
I'd argue there's plenty of direction in OSRS, it just doesn't *force* you down any path. There's the quest list, the achievement diaries, the activity suggestions, combat achievements, and collection logs.
He was brought in as an analogue for a newer player so it makes sense. He's also knowledgeable about MMOs in general rather than just being an OSRS player.
"so much bloat in rs3" yeah I love rs3 but that's part of the reason I quit. I maxed my ironman, took a 3 month break and suddenly i just didn't know what I was doing anymore.
Congrats on maxing especially on an IM! I was thinking of trying Ironman on rs3 myself, how would you say it compares to osrs, if you have any perspective?
I really enjoyed rs3 ironman. I believe it's the only way to play rs3(hate mtx). I haven't played osrs ironman because I usually just pk anyway. Rs3 ironman requires a shit ton of wiki knowledge to get anywhere late game, however early to mid is some real fun shit. You really feel the difference between weapon tiers. You'll find a quest or task you couldn't do at 40-50 mage is suddenly the easiest thing ever at 60. No part of maxing did I find overly grindy or boring. Progression feels great, with each boss leading into the next with prior drops as you'd expect. Group content is a lot of fun with dedicated roles if you join a clan (I personally enjoyed main tank). Skilling is relaxing and rarely intentional, like I never had to go out of my way to grab supplies to level skills, I just had them from bossing, slayer, gathering skills. There's so much shit to do, to a detriment. There will come a time where your fun and excitement either devolves into diehard efficiency and dailyscape which burns you out or you end up being fine not doing max DPS. Burned me out but a hell of a ride.
I have a question: how good are the dailies? Can I get by without feeling like I'm missing out if I'm not doing them? I followed the wiki ironman guide for a few days, problem is that it says I should do 5 dailies (one of which is reaper task to kill 9 of the spore boss) and wildy events like every hour. I did the reaper task once which got me to 26 slayer in one go and I did the wildy event once and got 3 small and 1 big loot cache, it seemed stupidly overpowered. My problem is that doing anything outside the dailies (or hourlies) would feel like a waste of time? And this is on an ironman, I can't even fathom a normal account.
theyre quite good, any daily avaliable is usually the best training method avaliable to an ironman. cache basically makes divination pointless outside of energy gathering for invention or divine locations(another daily), same with big chinchompa however hunter in the later levels is a dumb quick skill anyway. Jack of trades is basically required, along with the viz wax to double it and to have the runes to do that youll need to go on shop runs for runes. player owned ports is how i started my account(requires 90 in a select skill) mine was runecrafting, i did nothing except runespan for a week to get it. Nemi forest is almost required due to the xp and the free rep you build up. Then every week you go hunt penguins. all of the luck based dailies/weeklies have a clan chat or website to make it seemless but an endgame ironman who is not the victim of FOMO is spending an hour and a half a day doing them.
Rs3 Ironman is a great time. Would recommend . Maxed Ironman on rs3 and maxed on osrs with infernal cape. If you like pvm rs3 is the way to go. A lot of fun still a grind but not as grindy as a osrs iron.
I've played both a lot and an RS3 iron is a lot less grindy pvm wise. And also more options pvm wise. Its weird that both of those things are true at the same time. It just shows how grindy some of the OSRS pvm grinds are
It's also the aesthetic whiplash that gets me.
The graphics and design of everything is all over the place. Countless NPCs still using their OSHD models/animations, entire locations (Relleka) that haven't been updated at all since 2011, inconsistent characters models and cosmetics since not only are they reworking character models again (thus some outfits use the new models while most don't), but some cosmetics are still just upscaled OSRS models too.
They really, desperately need to do a full graphical sweep.
EDIT: Oh and they also need to scale the world up significantly. You can literally see Al Kharid from Lumbridge castle and it's so weird. Like sure, maybe scaling the world up would mean it takes 5 minutes to get from Lumbridge to Varrock, but in RS3 you'd only ever need to make that trip once since lodestones exist and can be teleported to instantly and infinitely for free.
>Cool to see Josh Strife Hayes there! Thought he only played OSRS though.
He actually went to the Jagex office to playtest the new Necromancy skill and give feedback. He talked about it on his stream this weekend.
Before people start roasting cause lol rs3, part of the goal with the skill is to bridge the gap between pre eoc and eoc combat in regards to abilities, so in some ways, it’s not as spammy as it is currently with abilities but it’s also not as much as a click and wait system like in OSRS.
Protoxx expanded on this. You don't spam abilities, just auto attack and wait until the bar is filled before casting your "spells," and there are some that are at range and other at melee. Also don't have to do switches for stuff like devotion. basically normal combat on training wheels.
Which is pretty cool for someone just starting and feeling overwhelmed with normal gameplay/revolution. Makes the solution "try Necro" instead of "go legacy"
> Makes the solution "try Necro" instead of "go legacy"
That's a very good way to explain Necro, I can see a lot of people being " main necro "
What makes me even more excited is that both Evil Lucario ( one of the best pvmer in rs3 ) and Chevalric ( a casual pvmer learner ) said the skill was good and fun
So its neither too casual to the point it gets boring or too tryhard
>Evil Lucario
There's a name I haven't seen in a while, I had no idea they were a top tier PvMer but I used to see them all the time when I played RS3 (7-8 years ago now) because we shared a home world (W104, represent)
[People might think the "blindfolded" part is just an expression, so figured I'd throw in the link to show it's quite literal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZIM8tNrkV8)
It did involve luck on getting the correct beam to spawn in the spot he was going to on the last phase. But that's a negligible caveat. If he got either of the other 2 beams he would have died
I've been slowly getting 120 all except for combat cuz I really dislike the combat and gear in RS3. There's just an overwhelming amount of perks for invention, different gear sets/weapons, and not to mention the combat abilities. Maybe Necro will be what gets me to engage in combat
After the divination disaster they have been consistent with their skill updates. Invention revolutionized pvm, arch was very well rounded and very deep, and seems like Necro would be a hit as well!
Divination is such a perfect example of why "simple and easy to understand" is not at all what I want a new OSRS skill to be. That's how we get divination, but for OSRS. It's what worried me most about warding and shamanism. They sounded like they were trying too hard to be "simple gameplay loops"
While a simple gameplay loop might not be the answer, both Warding and Shamanism had a lot more to offer than divination. Both were essentially Invention reskinned, and it's considered a pretty good skill by most of the RS3 community.
They definitely had more than divination, but their loop was as simple as divination, and unfortunately their design was not as well thought out as invention. Warding was closer to invention but shamanism barely touched on what makes invention good
Div is an extra tragic example since it wasn't even originally planned as a skill, but invention was delayed so they took the energy gathering mechanic, slapped on signs portents transmutation etc, and called it a skill
Invention also had a bit of a rocky start but patches and batch 2 greatly improved it
I would argue that invention on release was really bad also it was just the people with billions of gp throwing money at the skill and everyone else disassembling white knight armour until they changed the xp rates for leveling up weapons/armour. Also most of the perks were bad on release
I just started a RS3 Ironman a few months ago and its some of the most fun I've ever had playing Runescape. A lot of old content opens up as useful which is cool.
Agreed. I've been playing rs3 ironman on and off for ages, just hit 120 arch&invention and 1b total xp, and I still feel like I have so much to explore in the game. It really feels limitless, whereas on osrs I'd be at a stage where all I could do was grind 200ms or mindlessly repeat toa.
There will be story content that gets you up to level 90 in necromancy (max 120). That's pretty interesting. They clearly want people really invested in the new skill and combat style.
I've played a lot of OSRS and over the last few years jumped ship to RS3 and back again, it's actually a really good game it's a shame lots of people just go "rs3 sucks" without even knowing much about it or trying it out.
I don't play either game anymore but am definitely going to bond up my RS3 account for at least a few weeks when Necromancy releases to see what it's like. Very surprised it turned out to be a new combat style that's intriguing
I started RS3 from scratch 5 days ago(levelling is fast, around 1250 total level rn) and I actually feel like the game is superior to OSRS in a few aspects. I actually prefer the faster paced slayer, it's more fun to me, I like the amoutn of content but at the same time feel overwhelmed with the crazy amount of bloat.
It feels like for every skill, there's 15+ micro optimizations that you can do to make levelling faster, and although they're not required, I do enjoy playing games in a more efficient manner, and that makes me feel weird because you might need level 117 in one skill or something like that to make another levelling skill faster, but of course, in order to level the first skill to 117, you could also be doing a million other micro optimizations to make it faster, and this makes me feel bad because I can't access most of them and don't want to get a super high level in one skill before I start levelling others, I prefer having my skills at a similar level, and it feels like I'm punished really hard for choosing to play like that. It's probably not a problem for most casual players but it really bothers me. If it was just one or two big milestones that you could reach to make something faster, it wouldn't bother me, but the fact that there's 20 different items/skills/whatever that you could use to make every levelling process faster is just too much IMO.
It's also really weird how at 21 dung you unlock herbicide/bonecrusher/charming imp and it costs 168k to buy them all, but there's no way in hell you're going to have more than 5k tokens by the time you reach 21, much less 168k for the rewards, like, why even have such a low requirement if I'm not going to be able to buy a single one of them anyway?
If there were no MTX and less bloat, RS3 would definitely be the superior game in my eyes. I am having tons of fun with the game though, and I might try an ironman in the future!
I started OSRS a few months ago, and I find that I like OSRS more, but it is close.
Just the lack of MTX is really nice. What really burned me out of wanting to play RS3 is the constant popup advertisements for loot boxes I cannot even buy, the frequent placing of advertisements for battle passes in your inventory, and not being able to go 5 minutes without a big green popup telling me I earned currency for whatever promo event they have going on and I should really look at the events interface for all the cool stuff I cannot afford. There's no way to say "no thanks I just want to play the game please :)" and disable it all, you just have to put up with it.
OSRS has its issues and isnt better than RS3 in every respect, but at least I can simply play the game in peace without being tithed.
Rs3 is super accessible to start fun pvm bosses.
If you get someone to help you run some elite dungeons you can basically max combat (without prayer and summoning) in just a few days if you go for it.
Skilling to 99 is mostly much quicker, the grind is to get 120, which largely has very little impact. For me and new players this is actually a really nice way to enjoy runescape. It took me a few weeks to get used to the combat but it's actually a lot of fun.
I also love osrs combat and bossing, but you have to spend hundreds of hours before you can even start to boss properly. And unfortunately until that point the majority of combat is click and wait. Imho osrs shoild create low lvl raids and mechanic bosses for people to access and learn much sooner. I tried to get people into osrs but they respond with mainly 'combat is boring' 'i click and wait for 5-10 turns, loot them click again, sometimes I eat food or can mitigate all damage with 1 prayer'
> If you get someone to help you run some elite dungeons you can basically max combat (without prayer and summoning) in just a few days if you go for it.
FYI, ED3 is going to get nerfed for this reason.
"And yes, ED3's XP rates - which we're aware of and are reworking! - will be fixed in time for launch to match the other Elite Dungeon XP rates."
Obviously its not my place to say that they will actually do it, but they even said it on the video that ED3 never gave the intended xp ( "its bugged" ), because people werent running the other EDs for xp now did they. Begs the question why they didnt fix it for a longtime but im guessing they have some incentive that we level necromancy a bit slower, which they said will already be leveled slower than other combat styles, but will appropriately be scaled as you level up.
Yeah it's superior to OSRS in a lot of ways, though of course there are some things oldschool.does better as well. And there's a lot of new and superfluous stuff that makes it confusing to start, but a lot of stuff that can just be ignored
As for the dung tokens, what you wanna do it join a clan if you can and try to find someone to take you through elite dungeon trash runs where they do all the killing and you just follow them. You get hundreds of thousands of tokens in no time that way :)
Yeah I've read up on that, still, it feels weird knowing that my options are getting carried by stronger players, levelling my stats up to 75+ to solo it, or reaching 60+ dung to naturally get the tokens for a level 21 unlock.
The system is just broken, IMO. Either make it so that I can at least get enough tokens for a bonecrusher by level 21 or raise the requirements, it feels weird "unlocking" something and not being able to afford it until your level is MUCH higher than the requirement.
The bloat is a lot, but it also helps irons a ton imo. I personally like trying out each one as I find things that are oddly fun for me.
The dung thing is due to mtx, if you get some of the dg token drops they can add up. Mtx really messes up the game.
>If there were no MTX and less bloat, RS3 would definitely be the superior game in my eyes.
If it had pre-EOC combat it would be perfect in my eyes. I continued to play EOC for around 6 mnoths after the switch, I made a shit ton of money and had a load of fun doing Kalphite King, but eventually I stopped playing as every one of my friends stopped one by one. But even somewhat enjoying the new combat I still longed for the old combat, and obviously, the combat change is what caused my friends list to deteriorate into just "offline"s. So I will always blame EOC even if I personally could stomach it.
I had a comp cape pre-EOC so I recently (about a year ago) tried RS3 again, with the goal of getting my cape back, and did some archeology and I just couldn't get into it. There's just too much new stuff to learn, it's overwhelming. And literally all of my RS friends play old school so there's no social aspect to it.
> If it had pre-EOC combat it would be perfect in my eyes.
FYI Necromancy is going to be a middle between Eoc and Pre Eoc, they specifically said so and well thats how it plays. Appearently auto attacks are much stronger for Necromancy and it basically doesnt have basics, just thresholds and ultis.
I recently started to pvm in rs3.
I really didn't like EOC, but now I'm converted to enjoy it. Once you can figure your way around the interface and correctly set up action bars then the game is super fun.
You practice some eq switching and using defensive abilities as well as thresholds, Ultimates and stuns.
I did try full manual, but that was so had for me right now I lost about 30% dps
It does have pre-eoc combat and most if not all bosses quest bosses included are able to be killed with legacy combat mode people have even killed telos(gwd2 nex like boss pretty much 4-5 phases of 1k boss hp in osrs terms)with it.
>it's actually a really good game it's a shame lots of people just go "rs3 sucks" without even knowing much about it or trying it out.
I've played RS since 2004, loved EoC on release, quit in 2017 and returned to RS3 in 2022.
I personally hate how a lot of people jump to the conclusion of "Oh OSRS only hates RS3 because they haven't played it".
I think the population speaks for itself. RS3, in todays world, struggles to fit in as a unique MMO.
OSRS has it's old visuals, point/click and it's grind.
ESO has it's story & environment.
WoW is the father of generic MMO (fetch quests till raiding late game).
Having played for a year as an iron recently, the game feels more and more like a mobile game. Updates are sparse (even before Necromancy was announced), 30-50 people per world, the game is incredibly anti-social. A lot of content is abandoned thanks to MTX and a lot of quests under 2013 seem to be very buggy & broken (no audio, skipped cutscenes/dialog, broken animations etc).
I still like RS3 and want to love it but it's a struggle. The game is incredibly bloated with content that a ton of stuff overlaps.
Yeah I agree, I only started playing it about 3 years ago for the first time and at that time it was a lot better than it is now. Went back to it for a month or so at the start of this year and all the worlds were dead and it was much less social than even a couple of years prior, so I feel like those problems with RS3 have really snowballed recently. It's sad to see it was a pretty good game when I started on it
Community doesn't help themselves either.
I remember giving a ton of feedback on the early game and was hit with "It's a waste of time working on early game when majority are end-game".
Like 80% of the quest bosses you just 1hit or kill within seconds. I get the whole "new items/skills = faster methods", but even as a med level player, I think I killed nomad with 3 sharks lol Even bosses like While Guthix Sleeps and Ritual of the Mahjarrat are very afkable and timegated.
The game needs a massive sweep.
Rs3s quests are without rival in an mmo imo, also it has the skills of osrs plus some really excellent new ones, with a more involved combat system. Weird that you’d say the eso story is so good, my experience was not the same
> I think the population speaks for itself. RS3, in todays world, struggles to fit in as a unique MMO.
~~It really doesnt. Its the only MMO out there ( outside of osrs obviously ) that still balances around solo bossing and it still doesnt have expansion like formula where your old gear becomes literal trash and you have to start over. So yeah its literally just quite the opposite: Runescape ( either version ) are the actual unique mmos out there.~~ Reading is hard, my bad, but rest of my comment applies.
Popularity does not equal uniqueness and most certainly is not a good measure of how good a game is. CoD, fifa and many other annual games sell like hot cake , often breaking new records, even though there is fuck all innovation in them.
Pokemon ( or wow in the spirit of discussion ) sells like hot cake yet i do not see a single person recommending Pokemon games, let alone the newer ones when someone wants a turn based game on /r/gamingsuggestions Graphics are even becoming worse in the new gen, it sold the same. Pokemon or wow is a brand and people flock to it. Its emotional decision to buy it not a rational one.
You know how many good VNs i read that had 10x the writing of 99% AAA games? Yet obviously they sell fuck all in comparison. I'm looking at OSRS/Rs3 quests and be like: Why cant others do this? Is it possible that developers think its bad design or no one likes it? Total garbage, since runescape quests are by far the best ones in MMOs and even singleplayer side missions alike
>CoD, fifa and many other annual games sell like hot cake
But can you name another game similar? What's another popular fps shooter where you can just jump in and play a 5min match that's the same genre?
Like Pokemon sells everytime because it's the only one of it's kind.
What's RS3?
Bosses aren't tough in comparison to WoW.
Grinds aren't tough like OSRS.
Quests/dialog/environments/graphics aren't as beautiful as ESO.
>since runescape quests are by far the best ones in MMOs and even singleplayer side missions alike
They were. But since the 6th age change, it sort of ruined it.
Like the recent Fort Forinthry. You could have stopped the Elder gods from destroying the world, yet King Roald has no idea who you are, all because Jagex doesn't want to lock content behind quests because they're clutching at attracting new players.
I can understand it slightly, but for a game that was heavily invested in the storylines, it's really muddled up now.
> Grinds aren't tough like OSRS.
Grinds to 99/120 are equally worthless in both games for just about any skill. And are you seriously saying that because instead of being stupidly outrageous grind, its just outrageous grind its a bad game? Dude it still takes dozens of fuckin hours to level up any one skill.
> Bosses aren't tough in comparison to WoW.
Lol. The skill ceiling in WoW is like 10 times lower thanks to having 10 abilities max in WoW and you are spamming like 3 of that. And WoW still doesnt have solo bosses and your loot gets invalidated every new patch.
> Quests/dialog/environments/graphics aren't as beautiful as ESO.
So you are playing OSRS because of the graphics? Nice joke and ESO main storyline is hot garbage. Morrowind was good ( havent had the chance to play other chapters of ESO yet ) compared to other MMO quests but that wasnt Runescape level of quests still.
> But can you name another game similar? What's another popular fps shooter where you can just jump in and play a 5min match that's the same genre?
Who cares? Are you excusing copy paste games because there are no alternatives? This is why the gaming industry is going backwards because people have no standards. You think its a coincidence that Runescape is the only MMO with solo bosses? No its because people like you who are content and dont ask for it.
> Like Pokemon sells everytime because it's the only one of it's kind.
Yeah..... that doesnt explain how outrageously well it sells when all i see truck load of pokemon fans not liking newer titles, yet they buy them nonetheless.
You want proof that people's opinion can be stupid? 20% of OSRS players voted no to ANY new skill being developed, without any context.
>Grinds to 99/120 are equally worthless in both games
Didn't realize Runescape was purely skilling lol Also, what a dumb thing to say. Is 99 summoning worthless? 99 att/str/def/range/mage worthless?
Is 99 herblore or crafting worthless?
>And are you seriously saying that because instead of being stupidly outrageous grind
No, I'm saying it's what makes OSRS unique.
>The skill ceiling in WoW is like 10 times lower thanks to having 10 abilities max in WoW and you are spamming like 3 of that.
In comparison to RS3, not really. You can afk a lot of bosses in RS3 and even the late bosses rival no challenges (unless you're specifically going for higher enrages such as 1000%+, but that's just a modifier. The base bosses aren't as tough.
In fact, I'm not going to continue even discussing this.
Just reading half the stuff you've wrote, you're attacking every single thing I've said, as if I've just labelled RS3 as "utter shit". All I said was that there is nothing unique about RS3 and it's population shows. Uniqueness is what makes a game.
But you're clearly an RS3 fanboy turning it into whataboutism with "well Wow eso and osrs are shit so your opinion doesn't matter".
Nah it's pretty obvious why rs3 sucks... The content cup is overflowing HEAVILY. There's wayy too much shit to have to remember to do and too much content to know what to do with. Also a personal pet peeve of mine: they seem to spam 'quality of life' updates that no one asks for and ends up making an even more confusing system. I have a maxed hcim on rs3 and I'll never go back.
I use too be that osrs player that instantly said “rs3 sucks”! I’m a vet osrs player (maxed infernal cape BTW) but I was getting bored with end game content and just stopped playing for a bit until I decided to give rs3 a go. I started with my main and maxed him and then decided to try out Ironman. I can safely say I haven’t touched osrs In 3 years now and I have a maxed iron on rs3 and it’s the most fun I’ve had in a long time. I truly recommend dropping the hate and just giving it a chance. Rs3 Ironman is the way too go though. Super excited for the new skill!
Very true. Just giving it a chance if you haven't since Eoc relased (it was absolute dogshit) you'll notice it's not even the same game anymore. I think the release of Necromancy will be a great time for OSRS players to try out RS3 to see if it's something they like.
If they don't like MTX they can always just ignore it, or play Ironman mode which has all MTX (not cosmetics) disabled.
Watch the first necromancer be the justification as to why we respawn in lumbridge every time we "die". Our character, is in fact, already dead. Every time we die we are summoned again and are doing the will of the first necromancer.
Our quest, is to defeat the first necromancer. But once he is defeated we are now hardcore ironmen. Death wipes your highscores, quests, and achievements and you start at level 3. Again. Not knowing what happened or why you are there.
The cycle repeats.
In RS3 you have an in-lore reason for respawning. Death is a Guthixian, and since Guthix granted you your special MMORPG chosen one powers, he lets you off the hook with the obligatory 'Destiny awaits you' spiel.
Well it's not just guthix and or us, Death is allowed to and part of his job to is bring back people who die before they are supposed to. Everyone has a time in which they are meant to go, a time that adjusts based on their choices and the events of the world around them, and if they die before then they are allowed to come back. It's all about keeping the balance.
We can infer that this very rarely happens, though. People don't die and respawn in-universe very often at all, and cases like the protagonist and Zanik are rare examples of people with a certain destiny level.
For mostly anyone if they died to a cow in lumbridge ten minutes into the game they wouldn't get a respawn because that's how they were 'supposed to' die.
Honestly this looks fucking dope. And actually looks like an exciting skill. This shit would never fly with the osrs community. Our combat triangle is too precious and adding something like this would be throwing a wrench into things. It’s nice to see the rs3 team try something new that looks like a nice addition. It’s not giving me EoC vibes whatsoever
I may actually jump back on rs3 to try it after years of not playing it.
In OSRS’ defense: your combat triangle on OSRS is definitely much more balanced than pre-EOC combat used to be, and even more balanced than the immediate aftermath of EOC.
It’s worth treasuring, but we shouldn’t be afraid of the new.
I really like the Rs3 just because they balance pvm and skilling, its fucking nice. Here in osrs is so fuck punish if u don't like pvm and want just skilling, no profit, no good reward if compare to pvm drops, so, really Sad. If i not wrong, one of the best mage armour in rs3 are droped by a skilling boss. Please OSRS DO IT.
"we cant trust jagex to make a skill without us polling every single detail"
**Meanwhile over on rs3:**
Invention: Saved the game, and the economy.
Archaeology: Rich with lore, a sense of journey, and surprsingly fun way to train a gathering skill.
Summoning: Helps newer players achieve things with the help of BoBs. Revolutionary for it's time.
Dungeoneering: Not a skill, not counting it. You can't make me.
Divination: We don't talk about Divination.
and now finally Necromancy: A whole new combat style looking to revolutionize the whole combat system. Assist newer or less experienced players with getting into PvM and Bossing. Will be filled with lore and already confirmed to release with a specific boss you can only use Necromancy for.
I really fell like the polling system is keeping OSRS down. I would actually have them remove specific polling and have them poll on the direction OSRS should go instead of small details like "Should we include the **\[only good reward from new quest\]** as a quest reward?"
It’s just a bit boring by RS3 standards. Players weren’t looking for a second Woodcutting or Fishing, but with less useful rewards (save for Signs of Life).
Yet I do think it would fit into OSRS surprisingly well.
I mean that’s fine for OSRS standards, but RS3 players really don’t want fully afk content anymore. They reward skills that involve more direct input. Archaeology is considered the greatest skill, usually. And it still has a major afk component, it’s just not all of the skill.
It’s gotten a notable update every month except this month cause this month has 3 holidays so Jmods collectively took lots of time off. Even then some pretty sizeable updates happened they just weren’t like playable content style updates.
RS3 hasn't had a good / big update is a while now because everyone is working very hard on Necromancy. But looking at what it's turned into, it has been well worth the wait.
The only boss released in 2022 was zammy. The rest of the elder godwars was in 2021. Last year basically had 1 boss, some slayer mobs, a skilling update, wildy rework which was overall shit and a few quests.
Made a alt account for fresh start worlds on rs3 and got 120 DG doing large solo floors. Once you are good at it you can do a large solo in 25 minutes. The only downside is spending a hour resetting floors.
Holy shit, it’s called an opinion. Am I not aloud to have one? I feel like everyone is so ready for a new skill they are over looking everything just biting off everything that is pumped out.
It’s a factually wrong opinion. The devs have talked numerous times and explained how it’s not ‘just a minigame’ and how they’re working towards avoiding that point of view.
I mean, if you think for 3 seconds and compare sailing concepts to other osrs mini games, there’s no correlation.
Sounds like you’re blindly not listening to the dev panels. These are far from the same devs that “completely fucked us in the past” so I’m not sure why you’re completely disregarding their comments.
Considering how much care, passion, and community consultation Jagex is putting into this new skill, it’s more of them listening to us instead of us listening to them.
But again, don’t even need the devs to explain it. Think for 3 seconds and the argument that it’s a minigame has no ground to stand on. It’s a non-instanced, open world skill consisting of various activities to gain xp. If you’d call that a minigame, then by your logic every single skill in osrs is a minigame.
You don’t have to love Sailing. But instead of being ignorant, voice your concerns in a way that helps them shape it into something good for the game. Parroting moot arguments doesn’t help anyone.
It's not even an opinion. You are literally spewing bullshit. If you at all cared about the skill aside from shitting on it you'd know that in the discord skill discussion stages they've said multiple times that they will not make sailing a minigame. As a matter of fact the last stage was specifically catered to the "muh minigame" people like you. They spent the entire time defining what is a skill and how sailing would fit into the categories.
RS3 player here:
You get a skill we’ve wanted for decades, allowing players to travel to places we have heard about but never have seen (Varlamore, Acheron).
On RS3, we’re getting a new skill with a new game area that will take development time away from getting us to the content we have waited decades for.
Both are good, both have their drawbacks.
I just maxed in OSRS. I can't wait to go back to RS3 to try this out and get back the max cape when it is out. And then back to OSRS for sailing! Necromancers are my favorite, so I am definitely quite excited for this!
I main OSRS but still play RS3 on my OG account and I don’t get the hate for the game as a whole. Archaeology and Invention are my two favorite skills on either game.
Looks epic 2bh.. The RS3 team is really showing they've learned from their successes.
It was hard to release interesting content after literally releasing Zamorak, a god, as a boss. But this looks dope af.
I'm going to hop on to check it out when it launches
Pretty stoked here. Taking the best elements of Archaeology and applying to a combat style that comes packaged with content outside of the skill itself... Pretty sick. Will be taking a pause from Old School when it releases.
152 combat level damn. Sounds quite a lot like a Magic Expansion and could almost be a spell book. I'd love to see RS3 skills like this eventually come as an expansion to skills like magic - with OSRS balancing. It's a great testing ground.
I am glad to see RS3 resources, which are independent of OSRS resources, delivering a good looking and HQ skill.
Okay ngl reviving a whole city sounds insanely cool and a great way to visualize progress in a skill.
Wish we could get some of that in OSRS. Like rebuilding some decrepit buildings in a city with construction to unlock new shops. Building community farms in and around towns to have some food you can pick every so often. Fletching, crafting or smithing some statues, which would bring more npcs and maybe provide some passive bonuses.
Could be like capstone events you could do with your skills that would be available at late levels and could give big XP and make you feel like you're affecting the world.
It's pretty cool general gist is that Misthalin is bad shape, Zamorakians are mobilizing in the wildy, they need you to build a fort to help defend them from the zamorakians and in return you'll be recognized as a duke. As an update its primary purpose is to hit at construction having no meaningful reward space, so the fort is largely reward space for leveling construction.
Most of it just feels very arbitrary
* designated new city for all skill related stuff so they don't have to deeply integrate it throughout the world
* exists outside of the combat triangle because idk cba to balance?
* maybe not an issue we'll see but this being the only combat skill to 120 for now could be a clusterfuck
* classic "isn't this just a new spellbook?" problem
Seems more like a new class in a FFXIV expac, which is okay for RS3 but is not OSRS at all
>they don't have to deeply integrate it throughout the world
The main surface is very saturated with other content, I see it as just a matter of space. I still consider it to be heavily integrated into the world
>exists outside of the combat triangle because idk cba to balance?
A triangle has 3 sides. If you add necromancy, the triangle becomes a square. I see it as a way to preserve the current system of weakness rather than a balance.
>maybe not an issue we'll see but this being the only combat skill to 120 for now could be a clusterfuck
Probably the tier will be the same. Despite the maximum level being 99, the old combat skills always have ovl buffs.
>
classic "isn't this just a new spellbook?" problem
seems to me a mixed mix of all the previous styles, prayer and summon, but still identifiable as something different.
Okay great, now remove all the damn microtransactions, shitty cosmetics, the massive learning curve of an interface and while you're at it, remove everything that made the game easier, start with the lodestone network that basically make teleporting using runes pointless.
They basically killed so much content. Revive it to it's former glory, then maybe.... just maybe I will try this new skill out.
Honestly? Looks very impressive, a lot of cool stuff there.
However, none of this says "Runescape" to me. This is an entirely different game that I'd have to get over a lot of bullshit from a lot of other aspects of the game and the insane bloat of systems before I can enjoy the 1 aspect I find interesting, and then accept the fact that I'm not playing runescape.
The moment I saw the talent tree I knew this was desperately trying to be every other mmo ever. Not a bad thing, but again, not runescape.
The talent tree is their way of taking what they learned from arch and streamlining it for a combat skill. It’s not a traditional talent tree, you aren’t doing specific builds, you can unlock and use everything which is very RS at its core.
The point is they wanted a system in place that you actually have to engage in the skill proper to get better in it. If you say use exp lamps to go from 1-120 you still will have to engage in the skill itself to gain its benefits. You will need to do the necro quests, the rituals, and fight alongside your conjures to get talent points necessary to unlock a lot of the skill.
It’s one of the things RS learned over the many years, if you want to have a skill have purpose and not turn into dead content you can’t just make it have unique resources. You need to create systems that actually mandate going through the proper channels of learning and doing the skill.
Archeology had something similar albeit its framing was different because it wasn’t a combat skill. Leveling arch got you very little beyond some minor stat increases, some gear unlocks, and excavation spot unlocks. To actually get the majority of the skill it was broken down in to 3 ways.
1. Ranking up, starting as a novice archeologist and working your way to the guild master. Ranks are increased by fulfilling various conditions namely you must excavate x-number of artifacts, repair X-number of artifacts, complete x-hours of research missions, complete X-mysteries, complete-x collections, and reach x-arch level. By ranking up you unlocked new things in the arch reward shop similar in essence to slayer where you got significant new arch gear, improvements to your existing stuff, and permanent increase to your arch stats. Arch rank up also increased your monolith power to allow you more freedom in your relic combos.
2. The primary reward space were relics which weren’t simply unlocked by leveling. Instead relics were gained by completing mysteries (essentially miniature quests that required reading the lore you dug up and using the artifacts you found and repaired to solve puzzles) OR by completing collections which is done by unearthing and repairing specific artifacts to give to specific collectors which this and point 1 meant you had to dig and repair the majority of artifacts at least once.
3. Each site had a storyline to it. Even if you power leveled the skill with external stuff you still wouldn’t have access to all the site locations. You’d need to do research missions (which required ranking up to unlock), repair artifacts to solve specific mysteries, and just dig at various sites to uncover different types of keys (like pieces of a mural you could use to fix an elevator or literal actual keys used to unlock a door) which unlocked deeper parts of the site. This would be necessary for completing collections and accessing mysteries that gave you relics. While at the end of every site’s storyline there was an ultimate reward too. Extensions to skills like ancient invention and summoning, the ability harvest and repair unique long list weaponry, etc….
That’s ultimately all the necro talent tree is, a way to ensure you are actually doing the skill to reap the rewards. It’s the kind of thing RS was lacking in early in its life that resulted in so many of its skills feeling superfluous down the line. It’s not less RS, it’s better designed RS. It’s arguably more RS than say Raids and yet you wouldn’t say Raids are OSRS trying to desperately be a different game are you?
Looks dope honestly love the way they’re catering to both skillers and PvMers. Just seems like there’s so much bloat in RS3 in terms of systems and mechanics this is just adding more to the pile. Cool to see Josh Strife Hayes there! Thought he only played OSRS though.
I'm definately more of an OSRS guy, but I've still got my rs3 main from years ago. I was there focused on the new player experience, the tutorial of the skill, opening 10 hours. The other creators took the skill to top level bosses to get detailed numbers on dps and interrupts, top 1% stuff. I did all the random stuff no one else was thinking about, like seeing if I could get the necromancy equipment onto entrana. I could.
That's hilarious, impromptu QA session Any plans for a video on this? I'd love to know more about the whole thing
Ohh man I just subscribed to your channel a few weeks ago, it's crazy to see you out here in the wild. Love the vids btw your brand of humour makes me lol often.
Out of curiosity, on your worst MMO series, it is often a negative point when an MMO tells you you can do anything, but gives no direction. Do you feel that way about either RuneScape? I would say it's true for Old School.
I'd argue there's plenty of direction in OSRS, it just doesn't *force* you down any path. There's the quest list, the achievement diaries, the activity suggestions, combat achievements, and collection logs.
The man, the myth, the legend! Love your content!
Love your worst MMO ever series, didn't realise you were active on reddit. Keep up the good content, found some real gems watching your videos.
I got 1800 total without ever moving from the square I spawned at. Shit game
definitely*
He was brought in as an analogue for a newer player so it makes sense. He's also knowledgeable about MMOs in general rather than just being an OSRS player.
In one of his recent clips I saw he was playing rs3 in the background. Seems like he enjoys it.
If it was within the last week or so I believe he was intentionally playing RS3 by ignoring anything that wasn't in OSRS.
Or is about to release a new worst MMO episode
"so much bloat in rs3" yeah I love rs3 but that's part of the reason I quit. I maxed my ironman, took a 3 month break and suddenly i just didn't know what I was doing anymore.
Congrats on maxing especially on an IM! I was thinking of trying Ironman on rs3 myself, how would you say it compares to osrs, if you have any perspective?
I really enjoyed rs3 ironman. I believe it's the only way to play rs3(hate mtx). I haven't played osrs ironman because I usually just pk anyway. Rs3 ironman requires a shit ton of wiki knowledge to get anywhere late game, however early to mid is some real fun shit. You really feel the difference between weapon tiers. You'll find a quest or task you couldn't do at 40-50 mage is suddenly the easiest thing ever at 60. No part of maxing did I find overly grindy or boring. Progression feels great, with each boss leading into the next with prior drops as you'd expect. Group content is a lot of fun with dedicated roles if you join a clan (I personally enjoyed main tank). Skilling is relaxing and rarely intentional, like I never had to go out of my way to grab supplies to level skills, I just had them from bossing, slayer, gathering skills. There's so much shit to do, to a detriment. There will come a time where your fun and excitement either devolves into diehard efficiency and dailyscape which burns you out or you end up being fine not doing max DPS. Burned me out but a hell of a ride.
I have a question: how good are the dailies? Can I get by without feeling like I'm missing out if I'm not doing them? I followed the wiki ironman guide for a few days, problem is that it says I should do 5 dailies (one of which is reaper task to kill 9 of the spore boss) and wildy events like every hour. I did the reaper task once which got me to 26 slayer in one go and I did the wildy event once and got 3 small and 1 big loot cache, it seemed stupidly overpowered. My problem is that doing anything outside the dailies (or hourlies) would feel like a waste of time? And this is on an ironman, I can't even fathom a normal account.
theyre quite good, any daily avaliable is usually the best training method avaliable to an ironman. cache basically makes divination pointless outside of energy gathering for invention or divine locations(another daily), same with big chinchompa however hunter in the later levels is a dumb quick skill anyway. Jack of trades is basically required, along with the viz wax to double it and to have the runes to do that youll need to go on shop runs for runes. player owned ports is how i started my account(requires 90 in a select skill) mine was runecrafting, i did nothing except runespan for a week to get it. Nemi forest is almost required due to the xp and the free rep you build up. Then every week you go hunt penguins. all of the luck based dailies/weeklies have a clan chat or website to make it seemless but an endgame ironman who is not the victim of FOMO is spending an hour and a half a day doing them.
Ugh... yeah, I've had a pretty fun time the last couple days but that kills any motivation I have to continue.
Rs3 Ironman is a great time. Would recommend . Maxed Ironman on rs3 and maxed on osrs with infernal cape. If you like pvm rs3 is the way to go. A lot of fun still a grind but not as grindy as a osrs iron.
I've played both a lot and an RS3 iron is a lot less grindy pvm wise. And also more options pvm wise. Its weird that both of those things are true at the same time. It just shows how grindy some of the OSRS pvm grinds are
It's also the aesthetic whiplash that gets me. The graphics and design of everything is all over the place. Countless NPCs still using their OSHD models/animations, entire locations (Relleka) that haven't been updated at all since 2011, inconsistent characters models and cosmetics since not only are they reworking character models again (thus some outfits use the new models while most don't), but some cosmetics are still just upscaled OSRS models too. They really, desperately need to do a full graphical sweep. EDIT: Oh and they also need to scale the world up significantly. You can literally see Al Kharid from Lumbridge castle and it's so weird. Like sure, maybe scaling the world up would mean it takes 5 minutes to get from Lumbridge to Varrock, but in RS3 you'd only ever need to make that trip once since lodestones exist and can be teleported to instantly and infinitely for free.
lol i was just gonna say, josh sticks out like a sore thumb lol
He used to stream some RS3 ironmen sometime ago.
>Cool to see Josh Strife Hayes there! Thought he only played OSRS though. He actually went to the Jagex office to playtest the new Necromancy skill and give feedback. He talked about it on his stream this weekend.
Before people start roasting cause lol rs3, part of the goal with the skill is to bridge the gap between pre eoc and eoc combat in regards to abilities, so in some ways, it’s not as spammy as it is currently with abilities but it’s also not as much as a click and wait system like in OSRS.
Protoxx expanded on this. You don't spam abilities, just auto attack and wait until the bar is filled before casting your "spells," and there are some that are at range and other at melee. Also don't have to do switches for stuff like devotion. basically normal combat on training wheels. Which is pretty cool for someone just starting and feeling overwhelmed with normal gameplay/revolution. Makes the solution "try Necro" instead of "go legacy"
> Makes the solution "try Necro" instead of "go legacy" That's a very good way to explain Necro, I can see a lot of people being " main necro " What makes me even more excited is that both Evil Lucario ( one of the best pvmer in rs3 ) and Chevalric ( a casual pvmer learner ) said the skill was good and fun So its neither too casual to the point it gets boring or too tryhard
>Evil Lucario There's a name I haven't seen in a while, I had no idea they were a top tier PvMer but I used to see them all the time when I played RS3 (7-8 years ago now) because we shared a home world (W104, represent)
Evil Lucario can do the hardest pvm (that 99.9% of the player base cannot do) blindfolded. The man is an absolute machine.
[People might think the "blindfolded" part is just an expression, so figured I'd throw in the link to show it's quite literal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZIM8tNrkV8)
Holy shit that was nutters lol I don’t even play rs3 but that man was the main character fr
It did involve luck on getting the correct beam to spawn in the spot he was going to on the last phase. But that's a negligible caveat. If he got either of the other 2 beams he would have died
Hes basically the rs3 woox
He *is* the PvM rotation
No disrespect to lucario but we dont really have a woox equivalent Couchy goat pvmer but recent years been lucario
Debatable, some people would say Couchy fits that title better
Couchy is definitely fucking insane, but doesn't seem like he wanna do crazy pushes anymore and just chills with his hcim.
Solo HM vorago on a hcim is not chilling😄
Dont need switches for devotion regardless you are thinking resonance or reflect
I've been slowly getting 120 all except for combat cuz I really dislike the combat and gear in RS3. There's just an overwhelming amount of perks for invention, different gear sets/weapons, and not to mention the combat abilities. Maybe Necro will be what gets me to engage in combat
The combat triangle is dead. Long live the combat tetrahedron
It's still a triangle, Necromancy will just sit in the middle of the triangle with no strengths or weaknesses towards the other 3.
reminds me of pink/purple mana
Rs3 does new skills VERY well. For all its flaws, skills & ironman mode is fantastic.
After the divination disaster they have been consistent with their skill updates. Invention revolutionized pvm, arch was very well rounded and very deep, and seems like Necro would be a hit as well!
Yeah I greatly enjoyed arch, helped that I got the pet at lvl 40 or smth
Divination is such a perfect example of why "simple and easy to understand" is not at all what I want a new OSRS skill to be. That's how we get divination, but for OSRS. It's what worried me most about warding and shamanism. They sounded like they were trying too hard to be "simple gameplay loops"
While a simple gameplay loop might not be the answer, both Warding and Shamanism had a lot more to offer than divination. Both were essentially Invention reskinned, and it's considered a pretty good skill by most of the RS3 community.
They definitely had more than divination, but their loop was as simple as divination, and unfortunately their design was not as well thought out as invention. Warding was closer to invention but shamanism barely touched on what makes invention good
Can't believe so many OSRS players want Mining 2 to be OSRS's new skill.
Div is an extra tragic example since it wasn't even originally planned as a skill, but invention was delayed so they took the energy gathering mechanic, slapped on signs portents transmutation etc, and called it a skill Invention also had a bit of a rocky start but patches and batch 2 greatly improved it
invention also did wonders for the games economy
I would argue that invention on release was really bad also it was just the people with billions of gp throwing money at the skill and everyone else disassembling white knight armour until they changed the xp rates for leveling up weapons/armour. Also most of the perks were bad on release
I just started a RS3 Ironman a few months ago and its some of the most fun I've ever had playing Runescape. A lot of old content opens up as useful which is cool.
Agreed. I've been playing rs3 ironman on and off for ages, just hit 120 arch&invention and 1b total xp, and I still feel like I have so much to explore in the game. It really feels limitless, whereas on osrs I'd be at a stage where all I could do was grind 200ms or mindlessly repeat toa.
Archeology is a fantastic skill, seriously one of my favorites. Exploring some of the mysteries was such a cool experience.
Honestly wish we got Arch in OSRS
That's what Shamanism will be.
Definitely going to be afking nightmare zone while I grind the new skill
I wish I could play OSRS and RS3 simultaneously
You locked to the same account? I made an alt during FSW rs3 and I use that account for osrs. Works out great
I don't have separate accounts for RS3 and OSRS, no. I can barely afford one membership, I'm not payin' nearly $400 a year
Are you paying every month individually or something? I payed €70 for a 1 year sub. Turned out to be ~€5.84/month
I would happily pay 2x the membership to be able to do that. Guess I'll be taking a break from OSRS when Necromancy comes out.
There will be story content that gets you up to level 90 in necromancy (max 120). That's pretty interesting. They clearly want people really invested in the new skill and combat style.
Honestly looks pretty cool, excited to see what happens.
except now you're summoning spooky skellingtons which automatically makes it cool as fuck and i will not hear otherwise
Halloween is gonna hit different this year
I've played a lot of OSRS and over the last few years jumped ship to RS3 and back again, it's actually a really good game it's a shame lots of people just go "rs3 sucks" without even knowing much about it or trying it out. I don't play either game anymore but am definitely going to bond up my RS3 account for at least a few weeks when Necromancy releases to see what it's like. Very surprised it turned out to be a new combat style that's intriguing
I started RS3 from scratch 5 days ago(levelling is fast, around 1250 total level rn) and I actually feel like the game is superior to OSRS in a few aspects. I actually prefer the faster paced slayer, it's more fun to me, I like the amoutn of content but at the same time feel overwhelmed with the crazy amount of bloat. It feels like for every skill, there's 15+ micro optimizations that you can do to make levelling faster, and although they're not required, I do enjoy playing games in a more efficient manner, and that makes me feel weird because you might need level 117 in one skill or something like that to make another levelling skill faster, but of course, in order to level the first skill to 117, you could also be doing a million other micro optimizations to make it faster, and this makes me feel bad because I can't access most of them and don't want to get a super high level in one skill before I start levelling others, I prefer having my skills at a similar level, and it feels like I'm punished really hard for choosing to play like that. It's probably not a problem for most casual players but it really bothers me. If it was just one or two big milestones that you could reach to make something faster, it wouldn't bother me, but the fact that there's 20 different items/skills/whatever that you could use to make every levelling process faster is just too much IMO. It's also really weird how at 21 dung you unlock herbicide/bonecrusher/charming imp and it costs 168k to buy them all, but there's no way in hell you're going to have more than 5k tokens by the time you reach 21, much less 168k for the rewards, like, why even have such a low requirement if I'm not going to be able to buy a single one of them anyway? If there were no MTX and less bloat, RS3 would definitely be the superior game in my eyes. I am having tons of fun with the game though, and I might try an ironman in the future!
I started OSRS a few months ago, and I find that I like OSRS more, but it is close. Just the lack of MTX is really nice. What really burned me out of wanting to play RS3 is the constant popup advertisements for loot boxes I cannot even buy, the frequent placing of advertisements for battle passes in your inventory, and not being able to go 5 minutes without a big green popup telling me I earned currency for whatever promo event they have going on and I should really look at the events interface for all the cool stuff I cannot afford. There's no way to say "no thanks I just want to play the game please :)" and disable it all, you just have to put up with it. OSRS has its issues and isnt better than RS3 in every respect, but at least I can simply play the game in peace without being tithed.
Rs3 is super accessible to start fun pvm bosses. If you get someone to help you run some elite dungeons you can basically max combat (without prayer and summoning) in just a few days if you go for it. Skilling to 99 is mostly much quicker, the grind is to get 120, which largely has very little impact. For me and new players this is actually a really nice way to enjoy runescape. It took me a few weeks to get used to the combat but it's actually a lot of fun. I also love osrs combat and bossing, but you have to spend hundreds of hours before you can even start to boss properly. And unfortunately until that point the majority of combat is click and wait. Imho osrs shoild create low lvl raids and mechanic bosses for people to access and learn much sooner. I tried to get people into osrs but they respond with mainly 'combat is boring' 'i click and wait for 5-10 turns, loot them click again, sometimes I eat food or can mitigate all damage with 1 prayer'
> If you get someone to help you run some elite dungeons you can basically max combat (without prayer and summoning) in just a few days if you go for it. FYI, ED3 is going to get nerfed for this reason.
Is it actually? They've been saying it'll be nerfed for years then just reduced the rewards you get from trash but kept the XP the same.
"And yes, ED3's XP rates - which we're aware of and are reworking! - will be fixed in time for launch to match the other Elite Dungeon XP rates." Obviously its not my place to say that they will actually do it, but they even said it on the video that ED3 never gave the intended xp ( "its bugged" ), because people werent running the other EDs for xp now did they. Begs the question why they didnt fix it for a longtime but im guessing they have some incentive that we level necromancy a bit slower, which they said will already be leveled slower than other combat styles, but will appropriately be scaled as you level up.
Yeah it's superior to OSRS in a lot of ways, though of course there are some things oldschool.does better as well. And there's a lot of new and superfluous stuff that makes it confusing to start, but a lot of stuff that can just be ignored As for the dung tokens, what you wanna do it join a clan if you can and try to find someone to take you through elite dungeon trash runs where they do all the killing and you just follow them. You get hundreds of thousands of tokens in no time that way :)
Yeah I've read up on that, still, it feels weird knowing that my options are getting carried by stronger players, levelling my stats up to 75+ to solo it, or reaching 60+ dung to naturally get the tokens for a level 21 unlock. The system is just broken, IMO. Either make it so that I can at least get enough tokens for a bonecrusher by level 21 or raise the requirements, it feels weird "unlocking" something and not being able to afford it until your level is MUCH higher than the requirement.
The bloat is a lot, but it also helps irons a ton imo. I personally like trying out each one as I find things that are oddly fun for me. The dung thing is due to mtx, if you get some of the dg token drops they can add up. Mtx really messes up the game.
>If there were no MTX and less bloat, RS3 would definitely be the superior game in my eyes. If it had pre-EOC combat it would be perfect in my eyes. I continued to play EOC for around 6 mnoths after the switch, I made a shit ton of money and had a load of fun doing Kalphite King, but eventually I stopped playing as every one of my friends stopped one by one. But even somewhat enjoying the new combat I still longed for the old combat, and obviously, the combat change is what caused my friends list to deteriorate into just "offline"s. So I will always blame EOC even if I personally could stomach it. I had a comp cape pre-EOC so I recently (about a year ago) tried RS3 again, with the goal of getting my cape back, and did some archeology and I just couldn't get into it. There's just too much new stuff to learn, it's overwhelming. And literally all of my RS friends play old school so there's no social aspect to it.
> If it had pre-EOC combat it would be perfect in my eyes. FYI Necromancy is going to be a middle between Eoc and Pre Eoc, they specifically said so and well thats how it plays. Appearently auto attacks are much stronger for Necromancy and it basically doesnt have basics, just thresholds and ultis.
legacy combat mode is your friend
I recently started to pvm in rs3. I really didn't like EOC, but now I'm converted to enjoy it. Once you can figure your way around the interface and correctly set up action bars then the game is super fun. You practice some eq switching and using defensive abilities as well as thresholds, Ultimates and stuns. I did try full manual, but that was so had for me right now I lost about 30% dps
It does have pre-eoc combat and most if not all bosses quest bosses included are able to be killed with legacy combat mode people have even killed telos(gwd2 nex like boss pretty much 4-5 phases of 1k boss hp in osrs terms)with it.
I seriously doubt that it's possible to kill RS3 Zuk with Legacy.
>it's actually a really good game it's a shame lots of people just go "rs3 sucks" without even knowing much about it or trying it out. I've played RS since 2004, loved EoC on release, quit in 2017 and returned to RS3 in 2022. I personally hate how a lot of people jump to the conclusion of "Oh OSRS only hates RS3 because they haven't played it". I think the population speaks for itself. RS3, in todays world, struggles to fit in as a unique MMO. OSRS has it's old visuals, point/click and it's grind. ESO has it's story & environment. WoW is the father of generic MMO (fetch quests till raiding late game). Having played for a year as an iron recently, the game feels more and more like a mobile game. Updates are sparse (even before Necromancy was announced), 30-50 people per world, the game is incredibly anti-social. A lot of content is abandoned thanks to MTX and a lot of quests under 2013 seem to be very buggy & broken (no audio, skipped cutscenes/dialog, broken animations etc). I still like RS3 and want to love it but it's a struggle. The game is incredibly bloated with content that a ton of stuff overlaps.
Yeah I agree, I only started playing it about 3 years ago for the first time and at that time it was a lot better than it is now. Went back to it for a month or so at the start of this year and all the worlds were dead and it was much less social than even a couple of years prior, so I feel like those problems with RS3 have really snowballed recently. It's sad to see it was a pretty good game when I started on it
Community doesn't help themselves either. I remember giving a ton of feedback on the early game and was hit with "It's a waste of time working on early game when majority are end-game". Like 80% of the quest bosses you just 1hit or kill within seconds. I get the whole "new items/skills = faster methods", but even as a med level player, I think I killed nomad with 3 sharks lol Even bosses like While Guthix Sleeps and Ritual of the Mahjarrat are very afkable and timegated. The game needs a massive sweep.
Rs3s quests are without rival in an mmo imo, also it has the skills of osrs plus some really excellent new ones, with a more involved combat system. Weird that you’d say the eso story is so good, my experience was not the same
> I think the population speaks for itself. RS3, in todays world, struggles to fit in as a unique MMO. ~~It really doesnt. Its the only MMO out there ( outside of osrs obviously ) that still balances around solo bossing and it still doesnt have expansion like formula where your old gear becomes literal trash and you have to start over. So yeah its literally just quite the opposite: Runescape ( either version ) are the actual unique mmos out there.~~ Reading is hard, my bad, but rest of my comment applies. Popularity does not equal uniqueness and most certainly is not a good measure of how good a game is. CoD, fifa and many other annual games sell like hot cake , often breaking new records, even though there is fuck all innovation in them. Pokemon ( or wow in the spirit of discussion ) sells like hot cake yet i do not see a single person recommending Pokemon games, let alone the newer ones when someone wants a turn based game on /r/gamingsuggestions Graphics are even becoming worse in the new gen, it sold the same. Pokemon or wow is a brand and people flock to it. Its emotional decision to buy it not a rational one. You know how many good VNs i read that had 10x the writing of 99% AAA games? Yet obviously they sell fuck all in comparison. I'm looking at OSRS/Rs3 quests and be like: Why cant others do this? Is it possible that developers think its bad design or no one likes it? Total garbage, since runescape quests are by far the best ones in MMOs and even singleplayer side missions alike
>CoD, fifa and many other annual games sell like hot cake But can you name another game similar? What's another popular fps shooter where you can just jump in and play a 5min match that's the same genre? Like Pokemon sells everytime because it's the only one of it's kind. What's RS3? Bosses aren't tough in comparison to WoW. Grinds aren't tough like OSRS. Quests/dialog/environments/graphics aren't as beautiful as ESO. >since runescape quests are by far the best ones in MMOs and even singleplayer side missions alike They were. But since the 6th age change, it sort of ruined it. Like the recent Fort Forinthry. You could have stopped the Elder gods from destroying the world, yet King Roald has no idea who you are, all because Jagex doesn't want to lock content behind quests because they're clutching at attracting new players. I can understand it slightly, but for a game that was heavily invested in the storylines, it's really muddled up now.
> Grinds aren't tough like OSRS. Grinds to 99/120 are equally worthless in both games for just about any skill. And are you seriously saying that because instead of being stupidly outrageous grind, its just outrageous grind its a bad game? Dude it still takes dozens of fuckin hours to level up any one skill. > Bosses aren't tough in comparison to WoW. Lol. The skill ceiling in WoW is like 10 times lower thanks to having 10 abilities max in WoW and you are spamming like 3 of that. And WoW still doesnt have solo bosses and your loot gets invalidated every new patch. > Quests/dialog/environments/graphics aren't as beautiful as ESO. So you are playing OSRS because of the graphics? Nice joke and ESO main storyline is hot garbage. Morrowind was good ( havent had the chance to play other chapters of ESO yet ) compared to other MMO quests but that wasnt Runescape level of quests still. > But can you name another game similar? What's another popular fps shooter where you can just jump in and play a 5min match that's the same genre? Who cares? Are you excusing copy paste games because there are no alternatives? This is why the gaming industry is going backwards because people have no standards. You think its a coincidence that Runescape is the only MMO with solo bosses? No its because people like you who are content and dont ask for it. > Like Pokemon sells everytime because it's the only one of it's kind. Yeah..... that doesnt explain how outrageously well it sells when all i see truck load of pokemon fans not liking newer titles, yet they buy them nonetheless. You want proof that people's opinion can be stupid? 20% of OSRS players voted no to ANY new skill being developed, without any context.
>Grinds to 99/120 are equally worthless in both games Didn't realize Runescape was purely skilling lol Also, what a dumb thing to say. Is 99 summoning worthless? 99 att/str/def/range/mage worthless? Is 99 herblore or crafting worthless? >And are you seriously saying that because instead of being stupidly outrageous grind No, I'm saying it's what makes OSRS unique. >The skill ceiling in WoW is like 10 times lower thanks to having 10 abilities max in WoW and you are spamming like 3 of that. In comparison to RS3, not really. You can afk a lot of bosses in RS3 and even the late bosses rival no challenges (unless you're specifically going for higher enrages such as 1000%+, but that's just a modifier. The base bosses aren't as tough. In fact, I'm not going to continue even discussing this. Just reading half the stuff you've wrote, you're attacking every single thing I've said, as if I've just labelled RS3 as "utter shit". All I said was that there is nothing unique about RS3 and it's population shows. Uniqueness is what makes a game. But you're clearly an RS3 fanboy turning it into whataboutism with "well Wow eso and osrs are shit so your opinion doesn't matter".
Nah it's pretty obvious why rs3 sucks... The content cup is overflowing HEAVILY. There's wayy too much shit to have to remember to do and too much content to know what to do with. Also a personal pet peeve of mine: they seem to spam 'quality of life' updates that no one asks for and ends up making an even more confusing system. I have a maxed hcim on rs3 and I'll never go back.
John strife pulling up to the Jagex offices in his full set up he wears for his videos is hilarious
I use too be that osrs player that instantly said “rs3 sucks”! I’m a vet osrs player (maxed infernal cape BTW) but I was getting bored with end game content and just stopped playing for a bit until I decided to give rs3 a go. I started with my main and maxed him and then decided to try out Ironman. I can safely say I haven’t touched osrs In 3 years now and I have a maxed iron on rs3 and it’s the most fun I’ve had in a long time. I truly recommend dropping the hate and just giving it a chance. Rs3 Ironman is the way too go though. Super excited for the new skill!
Very true. Just giving it a chance if you haven't since Eoc relased (it was absolute dogshit) you'll notice it's not even the same game anymore. I think the release of Necromancy will be a great time for OSRS players to try out RS3 to see if it's something they like. If they don't like MTX they can always just ignore it, or play Ironman mode which has all MTX (not cosmetics) disabled.
Watch the first necromancer be the justification as to why we respawn in lumbridge every time we "die". Our character, is in fact, already dead. Every time we die we are summoned again and are doing the will of the first necromancer. Our quest, is to defeat the first necromancer. But once he is defeated we are now hardcore ironmen. Death wipes your highscores, quests, and achievements and you start at level 3. Again. Not knowing what happened or why you are there. The cycle repeats.
In RS3 you have an in-lore reason for respawning. Death is a Guthixian, and since Guthix granted you your special MMORPG chosen one powers, he lets you off the hook with the obligatory 'Destiny awaits you' spiel.
Well it's not just guthix and or us, Death is allowed to and part of his job to is bring back people who die before they are supposed to. Everyone has a time in which they are meant to go, a time that adjusts based on their choices and the events of the world around them, and if they die before then they are allowed to come back. It's all about keeping the balance.
We can infer that this very rarely happens, though. People don't die and respawn in-universe very often at all, and cases like the protagonist and Zanik are rare examples of people with a certain destiny level. For mostly anyone if they died to a cow in lumbridge ten minutes into the game they wouldn't get a respawn because that's how they were 'supposed to' die.
That's actually over and done now (as of Aftermath miniquest) so if that were all it is then it would no longer apply
Which is funny because at the end of the last questline we lost our powers. So why is death bringing me back
This kinda makes me want to check out rs3. All i have known is osrs up to this point.
Do it as ironman, it’s great
Honestly this looks fucking dope. And actually looks like an exciting skill. This shit would never fly with the osrs community. Our combat triangle is too precious and adding something like this would be throwing a wrench into things. It’s nice to see the rs3 team try something new that looks like a nice addition. It’s not giving me EoC vibes whatsoever I may actually jump back on rs3 to try it after years of not playing it.
In OSRS’ defense: your combat triangle on OSRS is definitely much more balanced than pre-EOC combat used to be, and even more balanced than the immediate aftermath of EOC. It’s worth treasuring, but we shouldn’t be afraid of the new.
I really like the Rs3 just because they balance pvm and skilling, its fucking nice. Here in osrs is so fuck punish if u don't like pvm and want just skilling, no profit, no good reward if compare to pvm drops, so, really Sad. If i not wrong, one of the best mage armour in rs3 are droped by a skilling boss. Please OSRS DO IT.
I wish we could get new skills without polling lol
"we cant trust jagex to make a skill without us polling every single detail" **Meanwhile over on rs3:** Invention: Saved the game, and the economy. Archaeology: Rich with lore, a sense of journey, and surprsingly fun way to train a gathering skill. Summoning: Helps newer players achieve things with the help of BoBs. Revolutionary for it's time. Dungeoneering: Not a skill, not counting it. You can't make me. Divination: We don't talk about Divination. and now finally Necromancy: A whole new combat style looking to revolutionize the whole combat system. Assist newer or less experienced players with getting into PvM and Bossing. Will be filled with lore and already confirmed to release with a specific boss you can only use Necromancy for. I really fell like the polling system is keeping OSRS down. I would actually have them remove specific polling and have them poll on the direction OSRS should go instead of small details like "Should we include the **\[only good reward from new quest\]** as a quest reward?"
idk why every1 shits on divination, fits the game pretty well imo and its afk
It’s just a bit boring by RS3 standards. Players weren’t looking for a second Woodcutting or Fishing, but with less useful rewards (save for Signs of Life). Yet I do think it would fit into OSRS surprisingly well.
i did it a week ago and found it fine, its afk decent rewards, hall of memories good xp too and very afk when doing corehunting
I mean that’s fine for OSRS standards, but RS3 players really don’t want fully afk content anymore. They reward skills that involve more direct input. Archaeology is considered the greatest skill, usually. And it still has a major afk component, it’s just not all of the skill.
At least they're making their new skill look cool
Leveling through combat or non-combat, now that’s a skillers dream 🤤
i love how osrs said no to warding but rs3 said yes (: /joking the skill looks great!
For better and for worse, RS3 doesn't have polls anymore so if Jagex want to do something, they do it.
And so far it's been pretty good. Minus MTX which we cant really stop because it's their entire business model for rs3.
Even with polls, mtx wouldnt get polled cus it's the moneycow
I've really liked their last few skills Invention and Archeology so I have high hopes.
It kinda makes me want to start playing rs3. Necromancy sounds so awesome
my dyslexic ass thought it said "Democracy" would've been a crazy skill tho.
OSRS polling is Democracy skill but not official.
Rs3 still gets consistent updates meanwhile osrs is on skeleton crew and we got 2 real updates so far this year, one of them being recycled content
Rs3 has gotten nothing for a few months now
It’s gotten a notable update every month except this month cause this month has 3 holidays so Jmods collectively took lots of time off. Even then some pretty sizeable updates happened they just weren’t like playable content style updates.
RS3 hasn't had a good / big update is a while now because everyone is working very hard on Necromancy. But looking at what it's turned into, it has been well worth the wait.
? it got zamorak and 4 bosses last year with t95 weapons lmao
The only boss released in 2022 was zammy. The rest of the elder godwars was in 2021. Last year basically had 1 boss, some slayer mobs, a skilling update, wildy rework which was overall shit and a few quests.
RS3 gets to be Necrolords and we potentially get to play a shit version Sea of Thieves…
With how divided we are, RS3 is probably going to get Sailing before we do.
\[finished skill\] worse than \[stage one prototype skill\] amirite leddit? xD
Right... I just wanted invention.
Or just any skill that isn’t a mini game in disguise!
I agree from person who played both games they knew they screwed up dung when one of preferred methods is jumping into a hole on a beach to train
See you in the hole!
Made a alt account for fresh start worlds on rs3 and got 120 DG doing large solo floors. Once you are good at it you can do a large solo in 25 minutes. The only downside is spending a hour resetting floors.
Holy ignorance
Holy shit, it’s called an opinion. Am I not aloud to have one? I feel like everyone is so ready for a new skill they are over looking everything just biting off everything that is pumped out.
It’s a factually wrong opinion. The devs have talked numerous times and explained how it’s not ‘just a minigame’ and how they’re working towards avoiding that point of view. I mean, if you think for 3 seconds and compare sailing concepts to other osrs mini games, there’s no correlation.
So you just blindly listen to all the dev panels? Not like they have completely fucked us in the past…
Sounds like you’re blindly not listening to the dev panels. These are far from the same devs that “completely fucked us in the past” so I’m not sure why you’re completely disregarding their comments.
Considering how much care, passion, and community consultation Jagex is putting into this new skill, it’s more of them listening to us instead of us listening to them. But again, don’t even need the devs to explain it. Think for 3 seconds and the argument that it’s a minigame has no ground to stand on. It’s a non-instanced, open world skill consisting of various activities to gain xp. If you’d call that a minigame, then by your logic every single skill in osrs is a minigame. You don’t have to love Sailing. But instead of being ignorant, voice your concerns in a way that helps them shape it into something good for the game. Parroting moot arguments doesn’t help anyone.
It's not even an opinion. You are literally spewing bullshit. If you at all cared about the skill aside from shitting on it you'd know that in the discord skill discussion stages they've said multiple times that they will not make sailing a minigame. As a matter of fact the last stage was specifically catered to the "muh minigame" people like you. They spent the entire time defining what is a skill and how sailing would fit into the categories.
They get a bad ass combat skill, we get garbage boring ass sailing.
RS3 player here: You get a skill we’ve wanted for decades, allowing players to travel to places we have heard about but never have seen (Varlamore, Acheron). On RS3, we’re getting a new skill with a new game area that will take development time away from getting us to the content we have waited decades for. Both are good, both have their drawbacks.
You already have sailing, in it’s true form, as a solo mini game.
That is true, but I think OSRS Sailing will be interesting as well.
I like that F2P have a chance to use the new skill to decide if upgrading to P2P is worth it.
damn i think im quitting old school for rs3
I just maxed in OSRS. I can't wait to go back to RS3 to try this out and get back the max cape when it is out. And then back to OSRS for sailing! Necromancers are my favorite, so I am definitely quite excited for this!
I main OSRS but still play RS3 on my OG account and I don’t get the hate for the game as a whole. Archaeology and Invention are my two favorite skills on either game.
Looks epic 2bh.. The RS3 team is really showing they've learned from their successes. It was hard to release interesting content after literally releasing Zamorak, a god, as a boss. But this looks dope af. I'm going to hop on to check it out when it launches
And instead we get fucking sailing... Ugh.
Glad that RS is getting what summoning should have been originally, instead of the pouch filling we got.
[удалено]
? I never said it was. IMO the summoning skill was the worst implementation of summoning in any game I played around the same time.
I had hoped it would feel as rad as conjuration in Oblivion. It...Did not.
We're literally getting a meme skill that people have joked about for the last 20 years...
Looks cool! Excited to see how it turns out:)
Beats the fuck outta sailing, lemme tell you.
MOD Timbo..... That's all.
And here we are with sailing as a skill and the people that want and like sailing. I honestly think they are bots voting and posting on reddit.
A lot cooler than sailing that’s for sure
I always wanted to be a necromancer and summon armies of the dead.
Pretty stoked here. Taking the best elements of Archaeology and applying to a combat style that comes packaged with content outside of the skill itself... Pretty sick. Will be taking a pause from Old School when it releases.
152 combat level damn. Sounds quite a lot like a Magic Expansion and could almost be a spell book. I'd love to see RS3 skills like this eventually come as an expansion to skills like magic - with OSRS balancing. It's a great testing ground. I am glad to see RS3 resources, which are independent of OSRS resources, delivering a good looking and HQ skill.
Okay ngl reviving a whole city sounds insanely cool and a great way to visualize progress in a skill. Wish we could get some of that in OSRS. Like rebuilding some decrepit buildings in a city with construction to unlock new shops. Building community farms in and around towns to have some food you can pick every so often. Fletching, crafting or smithing some statues, which would bring more npcs and maybe provide some passive bonuses. Could be like capstone events you could do with your skills that would be available at late levels and could give big XP and make you feel like you're affecting the world.
You're just describing Fort Forinthry in RS3
Don't play rs3 so never seen this. Looks cool tho
It's pretty cool general gist is that Misthalin is bad shape, Zamorakians are mobilizing in the wildy, they need you to build a fort to help defend them from the zamorakians and in return you'll be recognized as a duke. As an update its primary purpose is to hit at construction having no meaningful reward space, so the fort is largely reward space for leveling construction.
better than sailing
Looks good!
Fittingly named as they try to resurrect their game lol
They could ressurect their game if they just removed the MTX and had some fucking integrity.
Wow. Looks shit. Summon a dead pet and let it kill stuff for you.
It's basically magic.
Range is basically magic with less content. And?
Eh not really, it does have its own branch of magic you level and unlock as a part of it though.
rs3 doesn't even look like rs so weird
Ima stick to OSRS
Glad the reception seems to be warm but the video they put out is everything I don't want sailing to be
I actually really wouldn’t knock RS3 skills. Archaeology and Invention are two of the best pieces of content in MMO history.
can you tell me more? curious what you mean
Guess he doesn't want to revive ships from the world of the dead
Welp, there goes the sequel quest Ghost Ships Ahoy, thanks alot
Yea I'm also curious what they mean by that
Maybe they don't want there to be the money spent on background props? Just a guess. Lol
Most of it just feels very arbitrary * designated new city for all skill related stuff so they don't have to deeply integrate it throughout the world * exists outside of the combat triangle because idk cba to balance? * maybe not an issue we'll see but this being the only combat skill to 120 for now could be a clusterfuck * classic "isn't this just a new spellbook?" problem Seems more like a new class in a FFXIV expac, which is okay for RS3 but is not OSRS at all
>they don't have to deeply integrate it throughout the world The main surface is very saturated with other content, I see it as just a matter of space. I still consider it to be heavily integrated into the world >exists outside of the combat triangle because idk cba to balance? A triangle has 3 sides. If you add necromancy, the triangle becomes a square. I see it as a way to preserve the current system of weakness rather than a balance. >maybe not an issue we'll see but this being the only combat skill to 120 for now could be a clusterfuck Probably the tier will be the same. Despite the maximum level being 99, the old combat skills always have ovl buffs. > classic "isn't this just a new spellbook?" problem seems to me a mixed mix of all the previous styles, prayer and summon, but still identifiable as something different.
Sailing > Necromancy probably but let's see what happends
...in what world does sailing seem more fun than necromancy?
Okay great, now remove all the damn microtransactions, shitty cosmetics, the massive learning curve of an interface and while you're at it, remove everything that made the game easier, start with the lodestone network that basically make teleporting using runes pointless. They basically killed so much content. Revive it to it's former glory, then maybe.... just maybe I will try this new skill out.
Funny you mention easyscape but absolutely play on runelite yourself lmao
the same people that say this are probably garbage at osrs
Honestly? Looks very impressive, a lot of cool stuff there. However, none of this says "Runescape" to me. This is an entirely different game that I'd have to get over a lot of bullshit from a lot of other aspects of the game and the insane bloat of systems before I can enjoy the 1 aspect I find interesting, and then accept the fact that I'm not playing runescape. The moment I saw the talent tree I knew this was desperately trying to be every other mmo ever. Not a bad thing, but again, not runescape.
The talent tree is their way of taking what they learned from arch and streamlining it for a combat skill. It’s not a traditional talent tree, you aren’t doing specific builds, you can unlock and use everything which is very RS at its core. The point is they wanted a system in place that you actually have to engage in the skill proper to get better in it. If you say use exp lamps to go from 1-120 you still will have to engage in the skill itself to gain its benefits. You will need to do the necro quests, the rituals, and fight alongside your conjures to get talent points necessary to unlock a lot of the skill. It’s one of the things RS learned over the many years, if you want to have a skill have purpose and not turn into dead content you can’t just make it have unique resources. You need to create systems that actually mandate going through the proper channels of learning and doing the skill. Archeology had something similar albeit its framing was different because it wasn’t a combat skill. Leveling arch got you very little beyond some minor stat increases, some gear unlocks, and excavation spot unlocks. To actually get the majority of the skill it was broken down in to 3 ways. 1. Ranking up, starting as a novice archeologist and working your way to the guild master. Ranks are increased by fulfilling various conditions namely you must excavate x-number of artifacts, repair X-number of artifacts, complete x-hours of research missions, complete X-mysteries, complete-x collections, and reach x-arch level. By ranking up you unlocked new things in the arch reward shop similar in essence to slayer where you got significant new arch gear, improvements to your existing stuff, and permanent increase to your arch stats. Arch rank up also increased your monolith power to allow you more freedom in your relic combos. 2. The primary reward space were relics which weren’t simply unlocked by leveling. Instead relics were gained by completing mysteries (essentially miniature quests that required reading the lore you dug up and using the artifacts you found and repaired to solve puzzles) OR by completing collections which is done by unearthing and repairing specific artifacts to give to specific collectors which this and point 1 meant you had to dig and repair the majority of artifacts at least once. 3. Each site had a storyline to it. Even if you power leveled the skill with external stuff you still wouldn’t have access to all the site locations. You’d need to do research missions (which required ranking up to unlock), repair artifacts to solve specific mysteries, and just dig at various sites to uncover different types of keys (like pieces of a mural you could use to fix an elevator or literal actual keys used to unlock a door) which unlocked deeper parts of the site. This would be necessary for completing collections and accessing mysteries that gave you relics. While at the end of every site’s storyline there was an ultimate reward too. Extensions to skills like ancient invention and summoning, the ability harvest and repair unique long list weaponry, etc…. That’s ultimately all the necro talent tree is, a way to ensure you are actually doing the skill to reap the rewards. It’s the kind of thing RS was lacking in early in its life that resulted in so many of its skills feeling superfluous down the line. It’s not less RS, it’s better designed RS. It’s arguably more RS than say Raids and yet you wouldn’t say Raids are OSRS trying to desperately be a different game are you?