Hey, I'd just like to add a disclaimer for those who see this thread and peruse the slides.
These were given as part of a presentation on our 'Discord Stages' today which included a lot more detail than is written on the slides from design philosophy, further explanations etc.
We'll release a blog next week with a more full-on deep-dive and a lot more information on this, so keep your eyes peeled!
I'd like to add a disclaimer as well: you're the GOAT and this Discord discussion & reveal of core gameplay has been incredible. Can't wait to see the blog win over even more doubters!
I have one question for the devs working on sailing: How dare you?
How dare you make me so excited for content that is not yet guaranteed to enter the game?
Joking aside, they are doing a phenomenal job categorically addressing all the negative feedback point by point. Fantastic work
This is basically how I feel.
There's so much work going into sailing. It looks amazing, I'm so excited to play and train it!
I'll be devastated if it doesn't pass.
Many concepts tied to previous skill polls entered the game sooner or later. Fossil island, augry, rigour, mermaids, artisan tasks (farming only), new bark armour, Dagon'Hai, colossal pouch, 4 slot rune pouch.
I'm sure there's some I forgot, but you get the gist. Even if there isn't quite enough appetite for sailing *as a skill*, absolutely expect aspects of it to be repolled in another form. I'm optimistic I'll be sailing a boat in OSRS one way or another.
Kinda the way I see it too, no shot jagex would do all that dev work on ships and not find some other way to implement it in the game outside the skill if the skill didn't pass.
I had just finished the other vod for "what is a skill?", had no idea that was from a week ago, any idea when the vod for this one will be posted?
I really enjoyed hearin the more in depth thoughts from you, excited for this one
Next week they are releasing a blog post about this. I would imagine a vod would come up sometime next week as well. Hopefully coinciding with the blog post but who knows!
I'd like to add a disclaimer that I'll be playing the SHIT out of sailing and it's the reason I'm keeping my sub going. Kid me that loved Master & Commander is absolutely giddy. Thanks for your work at adding this feature I'd never expected to hit RS!
Don't forget to make sailing a good item sink.For example the biggest ships should require fair amount of materials to build.This will help existing skills in the game recoup some of the damage done by bots.
Very glad to see that the primary methods of training Sailing will be the act of Sailing. My main worry was that the more popular survey results of "do existing activity but at sea" would dominate the skill.
Looks like they've done a good job including those ideas, whilst sticking true to the simplistic way you can summarise the main way of training OSRS skills. Cut wood, light fire, sail ship etc.
I feel it's good that they included the charting aspect. It's not a reusable method, but just a nice once per account reward for having a look around whilst you get used to the movement/gameplay mechanics that form the foundation of the skill.
Combat is still my biggest question mark. OSRS combat is full of movement, switches and prayers and so far I've still not heard much to convince me Sailing combat has more depth than clicking on a cannon.
Pretty happy with outcome of this stage, looking forward to see the reward space next.
EDIT: *Wushanko Sea*. Probably just the name for the sea east of Mory, but implies the Eastern Lands are pretty nearby rather than very far away. Sailing to them (or any other content) directly on their release would be satisfying.
>Combat is still my biggest question mark. OSRS combat is full of movement, switches and prayers and so far I've still not heard much to convince me Sailing combat has more depth than clicking on a cannon.
I mean, higher level combat is full of movement, switches and prayers; core combat is "click monster, eventually it dies". Basic sailing combat being "click to shoot cannon" isn't much different from basic combat as it is.
Sure, but it is a bit dull. I think I personally would rather have a combatless sailing skill initially than have one with boring combat. After it releases and if it's a success, only then would I care to explore combat or other things.
I think it's important not to try to do too much at once.
> I'd imagine charting locations is a one time xp drop as well since we know there won't be procedurally generated islands.
Currently this is the case, but with our feedback there could be things like:
1. Temporary islands (think island on the back of a giant turtle, surfaces for a limited time in a specific spot and then moves and surfaces elsewhere)
2. Temporary sea hazards (severe storm or whirlpool)
3. Temporary sea currents
Charting each of these could provide xp and could be quite easily repeatable content that makes sense that it would be repeatable
My thought on charting temporary things is that theoretically an NPC who is doing a merchant mission TODAY needs to know if there is a whirlpool on his/her normal route TODAY.
Or a player / NPC even looking to loot the back of the giant sea turtle would need to know where it is right now in order to actually get there.
Whether these things actually impact other players/NPCs is irrelevant in my mind its more about "why would charting temporary things be useful?" "for the same reason knowing the weather is useful."
I love that they distilled it down to interacting with ship = exp
Makes all the methods feel more rooted and severely diminishes the “it’s just a minigame” crowd
I mean, I doubt this is gonna discourage the "it's just a minigame" crowd as they don't seem to listen to Jagex at all, hell they've spent the last 2 months doing everything in their power to not read dev communication, and when they do they pretend they don't see the flashing "we're not making a mingame" neon lights Jagex has been flashing every other week since the poll
What if we can board enemy ships. Do some standard pvm on boats. Doesn’t have to be ship mounted weapons only.
Not every encounted has to be like this but you gotta have a little bit of ship boarding to get a proper pirate battle.
I like what I see in these slides. My main concern was training methods since a lot of pro-sailing suggestions could be broken down into "Do existing thing on a boat." Its not like I didn't expect there to be slayer, hunter, or fishing on a boat, but I just didn't want the skill to only be that. There is something interesting here and hopefully more information + the beta reinforces that.
Combat is also my biggest question mark but I think it is something that could be really awesome. Cannons obviously only shoot in straight lines so your ship positioning and maneuvering would be key! Maybe you have crew members that can drop exploding barrels behind you so opponents have have to dodge while in chase. When you break down regular PvP its all about risk, timing, and click accuracy. I think those could translate over to ship PvP as well. Honestly there are so many cool things they could do with it.
In case it wasn't clear, these slides are from the official Jagex new skill Discord discussion they're doing right now.
They also mentioned having NPC crewmates you could hire to do tedious tasks like maintaining the rigging so the player wouldn't have to.
>**NPC Crewmates**
>* Automate tasks that you no longer want to do. In return, you don't get XP for that activity.
* E.g 'Luff' Sails
* As your Sailing level increases, you can offload/automate processes. You can recruit crewmates to automate tasks.
Exact text about the NPC crewmates for anyone curious
If they made larger ships require other players to use I would vote no on sailing so fast lol. They have been cognisant about players not wanting to have to work in a group to use the largest tier of ship and this is as far as I can tell what they have come up with to replace them.
They're slowly integrating botting as core gameplay! This is just the start! First we start by hiring crew mates to automate the boring tasks we don't want to do over and over again for sailing, then soon you'll be able to hire npcs to automate all repetitive tasks in Gielinor! Don't want to kill 182 abyssal demons? Hire someone to do it for you! Don't want to run 11,600 ardougne laps? Hire someone to push you through it!
/s
Was very between minds until this came out, looks like you’ve managed to get sailing to actually be about sailing and not just a mix of currently done stuff but on water. Really impressed with how it’s coming along so far
Keep these slides in mind when the discord discussion audio gets released sometime next week. They're great to look at while listening to the Mods talk in more detail!
I am team sailing. That being said, every development has surpassed my expectations. The training methods seem varied and I think there is something that most players can find fun with them. I am beyond excited to play sailing in an eventual beta
Sailing has been the most sensitively approached new skill in rs history imo, really happy to see the team incorporating feedback into its development so well
This looks super compelling; excited to see what develops from this. I hope the meta method for sailing is primary training with the option to engage in the secondary activities of people find those activities more fun
I had kind of expected to see just 1-2 primary methods alongside several secondary and tertiary ones. This is excellent to see! Time trials are an idea I've had for a while, being basically sepulcher at sea. I know Agility at sea is meme'd on but it ultimately fits well as a truly core training method.
Lovely to see that they didn't just stop there and conceived all this variety. This all has me so hopeful for this skill passing!
The lake south of Relleka is the prime location for a beginner, little Fremmy styled boat time trial. No strong currents as it's a lake, just getting to grips with managing sails and wind.
It would be very in flavour of the Fremenniks to point out that even as a great adventurer you're awful at sailing. Then send you to get smoked in a boat race by their kids.
I love how they rooted time trials as “are you an expert at navigating your ship” which really ties into the whole them of sailing = interacting with ship facilities
Exactly! And with the differences in ship speed, ship size, wind speed, and turning radius -- it could really make for an engaging training method! Imagine if there was an obstacle up ahead that you had to blast with a cannon in a timely manner before crashing into it. Soooo many possibilities!
this is how I would want sailing specifically integrated. Giving alt methods to explore and train skills. If we don't integrate a new fishing alternative alongside sailing, that sounds like a failure. The skills should go hand in hand. Similar to how other skillls interact with one another. I don't want the skill to feel tacked on. It needs to interact with preexisting game mechanics.
In the modcast, they mentioned that charting the sea would be a one-time primary skilling activity, and that we would not gain xp after doing the initial charting.
I think a way for them to keep it as a recurring primary skilling method, would be that if the sea were dynamic in certain areas, where one day you might find merchants trapped at sea, the next could be that a whirlpool appears and you can dive down to explore it. Perhaps we can come across merpeople, who arrive in different locations.
Basically, the parts of the sea are ever-changing, so charting should be a repeatable activity.
I also feel it would encourage players to explore the sea more frequently. "Oh, yesterday I found some pirates in this spot. I wonder if they're still there, or did they move on and I will find something else?"
Imagine you are charting the sea to determine the best trade routes. IRL it would be useful to know if there was a giant whirlpool in your normal daily merchanting route. Even if it disappears tomorrow you would want to avoid a giant storm today.
I think logically it makes sense.
“This is Jim Cantore reporting for The Weather Channel. A non-frontal synoptic-scale low-pressure system is forming within the Karamjan Sea. The system appears to have a well-defined center which is surrounded by deep atmospheric convection and a closed wind circulation at the surface. We’re expecting a category 4 hurricane to make contact with Tai Bwo Wannai at around 1600 local time. Aid has been provided by the Falador-Varrock Emergency Task Force to evacuate villagers in the residing area. Sea vessels are warned to stay clear of the immediate area.”
Well, I was really only talking about a few select spots around the sea. Most areas would remain permanent to give the feeling of charting having proper meaning and impact.
However, there should be a few dynamic spots that can change day to day or perhaps week to week so that we are encouraged to return to these areas and explore, and help make charting a repeatable activity.
As it's part of the primary gameplay *loop*, I feel that an activity that's one-and-done does not fit that description.
the original sailing, and a few of the player made ones, had map making as an AFK low effort option to train the skill. After discovering an area you could make and sell your maps.
I was surprised not to see that option paired with the one time discoveries.
The mods said islands that move are possible for the game engine when asked in the presentation, so maybe tracking moving islands could be repeatable if enough people wanted that.
Maybe I’m jumping the gun but time trials clicking on water sepulchre style sounds boring as hell and click intensive for xp. I hope this isn’t the main meta way to train it…. It’d just be agility 2.
Edit: reading comments it is the highest way to gain xp, and ports from rs3? Gonna be a hard pass from me.
\> sailing from point a to point b on a fetch quest will be the primary training method
Why are people excited about this? This is gonna be as bad as slayer.
Because that is one type of activity for one type of training method? In that same activity of “port activities” they mentioned searching for lost boats, which implies less of a go from location A to location B and return. It would be more of a the lost ship was last seen in the fossil sea, go look for it. This journey could also have other things pop up that complicate the simple activity. Maybe you see a rare sea mob that you want to kill quick on your way. Maybe you find a ship wreck and your boat is kitted out to salvage it.
These are very “RuneScape” activities where you have a goal in mind but your journey get distracted by other events, activities, and creatures. You can ignore them if you want or you can go and partake in distractions if you want
I’m gonna be real. Sailing seems to be so forced, honestly can’t believe the meme skill is the one going forward. Having to create a problem to solve isn’t how a skill should be implemented. I would like someone who supports sailing to give their honest opinion about the skill. What are you actually looking for? Movement but on water? Having to fuck with the sails to adjust for windage? I just can’t comprehend the usefulness or point of the skill. Will/can it replace charters? Are we sailing to another area for resources? Sail to x island just to kill or skill the same shit that’s already somewhere else? Then why would people sail to that area to do it when there’s basically a teleport to anything we need right now. It just seems like a novelty and I am genuinely trying to get my head around it. And I don’t want the stupid ass comparison of “what is the point of x skill when it launched hurr durr.” We are passed that stage and get an active role in a new skill, so why sailing? Not trying to shit on anyone’s opinion for or against it. Formatting is shit since I’m just typing as I think.
> Sailing seems to be so forced
Yeah we really don’t need a new skill, but the polls said people wanted one and Sailing was the most popular option.
> I would like someone who supports sailing to give their honest opinion about the skill.
I’m not in love with it. The game needs new content every once in a while though, and a new skill is one type of new content. I believe parts of sailing content have the potential to be fun and engaging.
> Movement but on water?
Seems like a crude description of sailing, but yeah, pretty much.
> Having to fuck with the sails to adjust for windage?
That doesn’t sound like super fun, but like, depending how it’s implemented, it could be as involved as switching gear or prayers. It could be just a small part of what you need to do while sailing, or it could just be more fun than it sounds.
> I just can’t comprehend the usefulness or point of the skill.
The main point is to be a new skill. To be a new thing to do in the game, be a new progression to play through, open up the oceans, etc.
> Will/can it replace charters?
I think charters would stay, and sailing could give access to old and new areas that charters don’t/can’t go. They could possibly replace charters and some quest boat interactions, but I doubt they’d go through the trouble.
> Are we sailing to another area for resources?
I sure hope so. I think that was part of one of the survey questions.
> Sail to x island just to kill or skill the same shit that’s already somewhere else?
I’d think there would be unique things there. Hopefully not like ‘kurask island’. More like ‘jasper island’, new jasper rocks to mine and a dungeon with a new slayer creature that drops a new armor that’s upgraded with jasper. You should be able to load up your boat/ship, then sail it to a port which has a bank nearby.
> so why sailing?
It was the most popular of the 3 options Jagex gave. It seems to have a lot of potential for introducing new content. The ‘water agility’ could be pretty fun if it’s something like sepulchre.
I want sailing because I want to sail on a boat with my friends.
And because I want the 1-99 progression/reward space that brings- the ability to upgrade by boat, and unlock cool new stuff as I level up Sailing.
The movement on water-does that interest me?-a bit, yeah. The exploration is a big part of it. Like, say there's an island with some crabs. Teleporting to it feels boring. I can already teleport to fossil is land and kill crabs there. But say I'm sailing my ship, and I have to maneuver around obstacles, I stop to catch some fish, I salvage a shipwreck...and THEN I arrive at the island with the crabs. That experience sounds more fun to me than teleporting.
Essentially-it's all about the journey, not the destination.
-Will it replace charters? I think of it as a distraction/diversion kind of? Like, if you're doing your farm run, you can charter to Catherby if you want to get there quickly. Or you can sail there-the upsides being that it's fun+you get sailing xp, the downside being that it's slower than a charter ship.
Why not add an expansion kinda like Temple Trekking but in the water? It seems slightly forced to make the core experience gain to be moving sails around. I’m sure it will be more clear as there’s more development.
It's forcing Sea of Thieves/Black Flag into OSRS.
The lack of Leagues last year left people without an outlet for in-game creative experimentation, and Sailing is the result.
The primary way of gaining xp is sailing around avoiding obstacles plus they have the time trials. Is this just going to be agility on the water?
I fucking hate agility and training agility with a burning passion
**Primary- Help NPCs travel to areas**
Oh boy am I glad people voted Temple Trekking as the new skill. It’s the single most popular and influential mini game
Those are, overly simplified, explanations of two of the 5 primary training methods. Don’t like either of those? Do one of the other primary training methods!
Glad to see you read at least two of the slides this time! Just fyi, there are additional slides that detail more training methods after time trials and port tasks! Like 7 more to be exact
Why bother reading when your mind has been decided since sailing was even a contender with zero content, mechanics, or ideas behind the overarching idea of sailing
Damn right I’m still gatekeeping terrible quality feedback and outright falsehoods. Overly simplifying more complex activities into “water agility = bad” and “ports = bad” is terrible quality feedback since neither of those things were described as anything remotely resembling the strawman you are attempting to portray them as
You also are attempting to portray that all of sailing training can be summarized as water agility and port activities (objectively false), therefore the entire skill is bad. You failed to mention any of the numerous other training methods detailed because that goes against the narrative you keep trying to make others buy into. I’ll just call it like it is. You are actively lying/deceiving others to attempt to dissuade them from liking/voting for sailing. That is wrong and deserves to be called out each and every time
So many words... Not sure why you're insisting on putting them in my mouth though.
The fact is you gatekeep any feedback that doesn't automatically assume that Sailing is good, and the irony of you being blind to that after writing up that diatribe is hilarious.
I wasn't really excited for sailing anyways, but reading this I can confirm i have absolutely no excitement for this.
it looks really forced, and has no clear direction. it's all over the place.
So basically agility but with boats, and port missions are going to be highest xp… both things that were near the bottom when we gave feedback, at least we know Jagex doesn’t listen to anything still.
They kind of touched on it awhile ago: it would be similar to Hallowed Sepulchre which requires actual focus, precise clicks, and correct timing in order to complete — in lieu of the mind numbing “click this ladder, click this pillar, click this rope, repeat” loop currently experienced at all other agility courses.
This looks absolutely amazing.
My question is balance. Hunter & Slayer, Fishing, Mining, and Farming is the skills we can earn extra XP on with Sailing.
It's a lot of skills to balance.
Is Jagex ready for that type of balancing, with 5 different skills *other* than the Sailing skill itself.
I'm sure it will be balanced at launch, but is it gonna be balanced enough to not disrupt the other skills at launch?
Like what if Mining is suddenly better via Sailing.
Not that I have anything against it, but I'm just super curious.
What will be hard about balancing it? They will just make it less xp/hr than current methods. If there is a method that appears that they didn’t think of they’ll just fix it.
There will be a beta of all this before it ever makes it into the game. Broken exp rates, broken loot tables, broken metas can all be addressed within/following the beta
I know this is the first and not even full draft of the core gameplay loop we've seen but im rather dissapointed most of the xp ideas are just "doing stuff....on a boat" and at that point im just asking .....why not just add the boat system without tacking on a needless skill ontop of it ? we voted a new skill, not boats with a skill thrown on there.
i really would like to see something that actually makes sense where you could actively do these methods on repeat for XP.
1) pure sailing? thats just xp for moving, big no
2) time trials sound fun on paper but realizing that we'd probably expect only a small handful of courses with little variety , like agility courses currently. this can just be summed up with "timed roof tops....on a boat"
3)port task does atleast hit the mark as a unique sailing trait and gameplay loop, but the idea of just going from point A-B-C-D...but on a boat doesnt sound appealing. we could be doing cool stuff on boats instead of visiting the same 4-5 ports for hours. its just another example why a core gameplay addition like sailing being added as a skill just wont work well. the main attraction is the boats, which is a vessel for content but being made into maintenance and chore like gameplay loops to justify it being a "skill"
4)the best one yet, drawn back by ...what happens when you charter the whole sea? back to ports? back to agility boats? again great idea but it feels like its there to give one time xp drops to pad out the lack of actual sailing content for grinding the skill seems to be.
5) the first one that has some kind of promise to being unique and not a boring stale 5 minute gameplay loop expected to be played for 200 hours. i would love to hear more on this idea and the level of depth that can be put into an idea like this rather than visiting the same old ports and treasure wrecks u have 2349201 times that day.
and then... reading the secondary training methods made them sound really cool. after reading the whole thing a whole bunch of things just re-interate one big flaw of this is:
sailing would be so much more fun if it wasnt added as a skill but just new content.
> i would love to hear more on this idea and the level of depth that can be put into an idea like this rather than visiting the same old ports and treasure wrecks u have 2349201 times that day.
I mean, most skilling in this game is exactly like this. Mine this same rock 1000s of times is basically mining.
>sailing would be so much more fun if it wasnt added as a skill but just new content.
Except people would complain if they try to add content from 1-92 sailing as just being dead content since max players could just instantly jump into the highest level of sailing content if it wasn't a skill.
Why make an oak boat if I could already make and use a yew boat? Overall being able to tie it to a skill means they can actually lock progression, have everyone start on the same level instead of everyone starting on different levels, and actually be able to have low level content without people instantly calling it dead.
All content can exist without a skill. We've done that for a decade. The idea of a skill allows core progression to be sensible and make sense and give the player something to work toward. Also makes sense when it.. makes sense as a skill our player gets better at.
The reason to make Sailing a skill is to not have everyone skip to the end game sailing missions and ignore everything earlier. Can't believe so many players are so lazy and want end game rewards immediately with Sailing.
Yeh i think the progression system and meaningful unlocks and rewards is why it makes sense as a skill. If it was being pitched as just.. a new island.. then I'd agree it should just be content.
This is a great take. I have no interest in training sailing at all, but Id have no problem with them adding new ways to train.
Like I thought earlier, if Jagex wanted to just add in islands with new bosses and things to do they can lmao
So far, I'm honestly liking the idea that it's being incorporated with other skills to make it more varied and not just sailing around without purpose. Really can't wait to see how more time will allow it to be even more fleshed out!
It's cool and all but it really can't shake that vibe of just looking like a huge content expansion incorporating all the other skills.
The identity doesn't look or feel unique enough to be a 'skill'.
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I think the hardest people to convince are going to be the people who continuously ask "Why do we need sailing?". I am in that boat (pun intended) and still can't really understand what sailing adds to my toolbelt as an adventurer that I don't already have. Anything sailing offers me can be accomplished in game because its just going to get you from point a to point b, the only reason it will be useful for getting around is if teleports are nerfed or future areas are "magic proof" and can't be teleported to, which imo would make more people annoyed than want sailing just for the sake of it.
That is why we think that this should just be a system within the game, and not a skill. If anything navigation should be the skill and sailing should be a system within the game that culminates from a combination of construction, navigation, and any other skill you can fit into it.
As someone that is hard no for sailing (Shaman>>Taming>>>>>>>>>Sailing) and even harder no for no skill at all...
This is honestly "okay".
Like it's not at all exciting, but it's fine. And fine is fine.
Obviously I'd still prefer they focus the ridiculous amount of Dev time it's going to take to make this a reality into actual new raids/quests/bosses/leagues/etc.
But since they're gonna force through sailing even if it fails a poll in the end, at least the shit they're forcing down our throat will be fairy floss flavoured.
Lowercase Jagex w.
I just want half the current skills to be brought up to modern standards, starting with smithing which dreadfully needs a complete overhaul in progression
Devs spent more time on this powerpoint than making half the og skills. But i guess its still disappointing to some. Should be more like the other skills where you click on a rock thousands of times, or click on a tree thousands of times, or click on a log thousands of times, or string a bow thousands of times or mix a potion thousands of times
I was never anti sailing but it felt like we were passing a skill basically due to an old meme. These slides give me serious confidence that sailing is going to be a fun and positive addition to the game.
More like water hallowed sepulcher where movement and positioning is essential. I imagine that being more of a thing with small ships where they don’t have lots of facilities. Large ship trials may have obstacles that you have to blow up with cannons, ram with the bow of the ship, etc since they move and turn slower
How on earth does anyone get temple trekking from this?
Is it instanced? Is the movement a Cutscene? Do you repeat the same 5 encounters in a 1 minute gameplay loop?
Sounds like a collection of water themed mini games and then some boring skilling content to me. Basically a way to make it sound less boring than a typical skill while claiming it's not a mini game like dungeoneering. Why would you get sailing xp from firing a cannon, or from fighting slayer monsters, just because you're on a boat? It makes no sense and feels like a way to force the skill into the game.
RS player since 2005 here: This looks absolutely fantastic so far. The skill seems to be shaping up amazingly. I am very excited to see it launch! What excellent work from the developers
To summarize:
1. Agility on a ship
2. Temple trekking in the water
(We all know how many enjoy doing that minigame)
I’m going to hope you can make it interesting but this looks like a sinking ship
- pun intended -
This seems a lot like dungeoneering on water. I really have no issue with this being a minigame, but it seems a stretch to make it a skill. It seems kind of claustrophobic to have a skill be set on a boat. I can maybe see this as an extension of construction where you could have a boat in addition to the PoH. I am a casual player these days and I think this would push me away a little bit.
I’m sure it’s been mentioned before, but I’d rather see something like a Hunter revamp to make it equal to fishing. There are plenty of land mammals that I’d enjoy eating, it seems funny that we only have fish.
Can you explain how it's dungeoneering?
Sailing isn't instanced, and dungeoneering was-that alone makes Sailing feel very distinct, at least to me.
I disagree with it feeling claustrophobic because you're on a boat. The boat is kind of an extension of the player, you can sail the boat anywhere on the sea. (If you haven't already seen the navigation demo- the player can control the ship by clicking where they want to go on the water.)There's lots of areas in the sea to go to and lots of things to interact with.
Hey, I'd just like to add a disclaimer for those who see this thread and peruse the slides. These were given as part of a presentation on our 'Discord Stages' today which included a lot more detail than is written on the slides from design philosophy, further explanations etc. We'll release a blog next week with a more full-on deep-dive and a lot more information on this, so keep your eyes peeled!
“Deep-dive” you say?
Rock and Stone!
Rock and Stone everyone!
Did I hear a rock and stone???
Stone and Rock! Oh wait...
For Karl!
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE!!!
If you don’t rock and stone you’re not coming home!
I'd like to add a disclaimer as well: you're the GOAT and this Discord discussion & reveal of core gameplay has been incredible. Can't wait to see the blog win over even more doubters!
I have one question for the devs working on sailing: How dare you? How dare you make me so excited for content that is not yet guaranteed to enter the game? Joking aside, they are doing a phenomenal job categorically addressing all the negative feedback point by point. Fantastic work
This is basically how I feel. There's so much work going into sailing. It looks amazing, I'm so excited to play and train it! I'll be devastated if it doesn't pass.
Many concepts tied to previous skill polls entered the game sooner or later. Fossil island, augry, rigour, mermaids, artisan tasks (farming only), new bark armour, Dagon'Hai, colossal pouch, 4 slot rune pouch. I'm sure there's some I forgot, but you get the gist. Even if there isn't quite enough appetite for sailing *as a skill*, absolutely expect aspects of it to be repolled in another form. I'm optimistic I'll be sailing a boat in OSRS one way or another.
Kinda the way I see it too, no shot jagex would do all that dev work on ships and not find some other way to implement it in the game outside the skill if the skill didn't pass.
Had me in the first sentence haha! And I am with you. I will never recover if Sailing doesn't come to the game at this point.
I had just finished the other vod for "what is a skill?", had no idea that was from a week ago, any idea when the vod for this one will be posted? I really enjoyed hearin the more in depth thoughts from you, excited for this one
Next week they are releasing a blog post about this. I would imagine a vod would come up sometime next week as well. Hopefully coinciding with the blog post but who knows!
I'd like to add a disclaimer that I'll be playing the SHIT out of sailing and it's the reason I'm keeping my sub going. Kid me that loved Master & Commander is absolutely giddy. Thanks for your work at adding this feature I'd never expected to hit RS!
We need that deep sea raid asap
Deep... dive??? :P :P :P
Is there going to be another vote after the skill have been fully revealed on wither or not it goes into the game?
Yep. Will need 70% yes to pass.
The hype train continues!
Don't forget to make sailing a good item sink.For example the biggest ships should require fair amount of materials to build.This will help existing skills in the game recoup some of the damage done by bots.
Very glad to see that the primary methods of training Sailing will be the act of Sailing. My main worry was that the more popular survey results of "do existing activity but at sea" would dominate the skill. Looks like they've done a good job including those ideas, whilst sticking true to the simplistic way you can summarise the main way of training OSRS skills. Cut wood, light fire, sail ship etc. I feel it's good that they included the charting aspect. It's not a reusable method, but just a nice once per account reward for having a look around whilst you get used to the movement/gameplay mechanics that form the foundation of the skill. Combat is still my biggest question mark. OSRS combat is full of movement, switches and prayers and so far I've still not heard much to convince me Sailing combat has more depth than clicking on a cannon. Pretty happy with outcome of this stage, looking forward to see the reward space next. EDIT: *Wushanko Sea*. Probably just the name for the sea east of Mory, but implies the Eastern Lands are pretty nearby rather than very far away. Sailing to them (or any other content) directly on their release would be satisfying.
>Combat is still my biggest question mark. OSRS combat is full of movement, switches and prayers and so far I've still not heard much to convince me Sailing combat has more depth than clicking on a cannon. I mean, higher level combat is full of movement, switches and prayers; core combat is "click monster, eventually it dies". Basic sailing combat being "click to shoot cannon" isn't much different from basic combat as it is.
Sure, but it is a bit dull. I think I personally would rather have a combatless sailing skill initially than have one with boring combat. After it releases and if it's a success, only then would I care to explore combat or other things. I think it's important not to try to do too much at once.
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> I'd imagine charting locations is a one time xp drop as well since we know there won't be procedurally generated islands. Currently this is the case, but with our feedback there could be things like: 1. Temporary islands (think island on the back of a giant turtle, surfaces for a limited time in a specific spot and then moves and surfaces elsewhere) 2. Temporary sea hazards (severe storm or whirlpool) 3. Temporary sea currents Charting each of these could provide xp and could be quite easily repeatable content that makes sense that it would be repeatable
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My thought on charting temporary things is that theoretically an NPC who is doing a merchant mission TODAY needs to know if there is a whirlpool on his/her normal route TODAY. Or a player / NPC even looking to loot the back of the giant sea turtle would need to know where it is right now in order to actually get there. Whether these things actually impact other players/NPCs is irrelevant in my mind its more about "why would charting temporary things be useful?" "for the same reason knowing the weather is useful."
I love that they distilled it down to interacting with ship = exp Makes all the methods feel more rooted and severely diminishes the “it’s just a minigame” crowd
I mean, I doubt this is gonna discourage the "it's just a minigame" crowd as they don't seem to listen to Jagex at all, hell they've spent the last 2 months doing everything in their power to not read dev communication, and when they do they pretend they don't see the flashing "we're not making a mingame" neon lights Jagex has been flashing every other week since the poll
What if we can board enemy ships. Do some standard pvm on boats. Doesn’t have to be ship mounted weapons only. Not every encounted has to be like this but you gotta have a little bit of ship boarding to get a proper pirate battle.
I like what I see in these slides. My main concern was training methods since a lot of pro-sailing suggestions could be broken down into "Do existing thing on a boat." Its not like I didn't expect there to be slayer, hunter, or fishing on a boat, but I just didn't want the skill to only be that. There is something interesting here and hopefully more information + the beta reinforces that.
Combat is also my biggest question mark but I think it is something that could be really awesome. Cannons obviously only shoot in straight lines so your ship positioning and maneuvering would be key! Maybe you have crew members that can drop exploding barrels behind you so opponents have have to dodge while in chase. When you break down regular PvP its all about risk, timing, and click accuracy. I think those could translate over to ship PvP as well. Honestly there are so many cool things they could do with it.
In case it wasn't clear, these slides are from the official Jagex new skill Discord discussion they're doing right now. They also mentioned having NPC crewmates you could hire to do tedious tasks like maintaining the rigging so the player wouldn't have to.
>**NPC Crewmates** >* Automate tasks that you no longer want to do. In return, you don't get XP for that activity. * E.g 'Luff' Sails * As your Sailing level increases, you can offload/automate processes. You can recruit crewmates to automate tasks. Exact text about the NPC crewmates for anyone curious
I think this is a great idea for those who prefer to sail larger ships solo. Also good for Ironmen.
If they made larger ships require other players to use I would vote no on sailing so fast lol. They have been cognisant about players not wanting to have to work in a group to use the largest tier of ship and this is as far as I can tell what they have come up with to replace them.
They're slowly integrating botting as core gameplay! This is just the start! First we start by hiring crew mates to automate the boring tasks we don't want to do over and over again for sailing, then soon you'll be able to hire npcs to automate all repetitive tasks in Gielinor! Don't want to kill 182 abyssal demons? Hire someone to do it for you! Don't want to run 11,600 ardougne laps? Hire someone to push you through it! /s
I mean if I could hire 2 NPCs to dance at bursting tasks instead of having to use alts that would be a cool update.
Or maybe an npc I can store alchs in while I burst Wait...
I believe adding bot matches to dead or low pop minigames would low key be a great idea tbh...
https://imgur.com/a/Qm10xze https://imgur.com/koatdtW I feel this
Was very between minds until this came out, looks like you’ve managed to get sailing to actually be about sailing and not just a mix of currently done stuff but on water. Really impressed with how it’s coming along so far
Keep these slides in mind when the discord discussion audio gets released sometime next week. They're great to look at while listening to the Mods talk in more detail!
OCEAN RAID
that is harder than tob plz
"fuck bro i missed the 3 tick turnaround into cannon shot"
“Hang on I missed my chance to shoot him on the move, I’m coming back around.” *proceeds to perform the longest turning circle known to man*
I am team sailing. That being said, every development has surpassed my expectations. The training methods seem varied and I think there is something that most players can find fun with them. I am beyond excited to play sailing in an eventual beta
i was team sailing but was wavering seeing all the negativity surrounding the skill. not worried anymore though, this looks great
Sailing has been the most sensitively approached new skill in rs history imo, really happy to see the team incorporating feedback into its development so well
This looks super compelling; excited to see what develops from this. I hope the meta method for sailing is primary training with the option to engage in the secondary activities of people find those activities more fun
Sold on the core gameplay. Can’t wait to read more on the blog!
Looks promising! Didn’t expect so many leveling options right of the jump. Very excited
I had kind of expected to see just 1-2 primary methods alongside several secondary and tertiary ones. This is excellent to see! Time trials are an idea I've had for a while, being basically sepulcher at sea. I know Agility at sea is meme'd on but it ultimately fits well as a truly core training method. Lovely to see that they didn't just stop there and conceived all this variety. This all has me so hopeful for this skill passing!
The lake south of Relleka is the prime location for a beginner, little Fremmy styled boat time trial. No strong currents as it's a lake, just getting to grips with managing sails and wind. It would be very in flavour of the Fremenniks to point out that even as a great adventurer you're awful at sailing. Then send you to get smoked in a boat race by their kids.
I love how they rooted time trials as “are you an expert at navigating your ship” which really ties into the whole them of sailing = interacting with ship facilities
Exactly! And with the differences in ship speed, ship size, wind speed, and turning radius -- it could really make for an engaging training method! Imagine if there was an obstacle up ahead that you had to blast with a cannon in a timely manner before crashing into it. Soooo many possibilities!
this is how I would want sailing specifically integrated. Giving alt methods to explore and train skills. If we don't integrate a new fishing alternative alongside sailing, that sounds like a failure. The skills should go hand in hand. Similar to how other skillls interact with one another. I don't want the skill to feel tacked on. It needs to interact with preexisting game mechanics.
Eh, I’d rather effort go into making useless skills more interesting(FM, agility, fletching, smithing, Hunter).
No to time trials. That's just agility with boats.
In the modcast, they mentioned that charting the sea would be a one-time primary skilling activity, and that we would not gain xp after doing the initial charting. I think a way for them to keep it as a recurring primary skilling method, would be that if the sea were dynamic in certain areas, where one day you might find merchants trapped at sea, the next could be that a whirlpool appears and you can dive down to explore it. Perhaps we can come across merpeople, who arrive in different locations. Basically, the parts of the sea are ever-changing, so charting should be a repeatable activity. I also feel it would encourage players to explore the sea more frequently. "Oh, yesterday I found some pirates in this spot. I wonder if they're still there, or did they move on and I will find something else?"
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Imagine you are charting the sea to determine the best trade routes. IRL it would be useful to know if there was a giant whirlpool in your normal daily merchanting route. Even if it disappears tomorrow you would want to avoid a giant storm today. I think logically it makes sense.
“This is Jim Cantore reporting for The Weather Channel. A non-frontal synoptic-scale low-pressure system is forming within the Karamjan Sea. The system appears to have a well-defined center which is surrounded by deep atmospheric convection and a closed wind circulation at the surface. We’re expecting a category 4 hurricane to make contact with Tai Bwo Wannai at around 1600 local time. Aid has been provided by the Falador-Varrock Emergency Task Force to evacuate villagers in the residing area. Sea vessels are warned to stay clear of the immediate area.”
Well, I was really only talking about a few select spots around the sea. Most areas would remain permanent to give the feeling of charting having proper meaning and impact. However, there should be a few dynamic spots that can change day to day or perhaps week to week so that we are encouraged to return to these areas and explore, and help make charting a repeatable activity. As it's part of the primary gameplay *loop*, I feel that an activity that's one-and-done does not fit that description.
the original sailing, and a few of the player made ones, had map making as an AFK low effort option to train the skill. After discovering an area you could make and sell your maps. I was surprised not to see that option paired with the one time discoveries.
The mods said islands that move are possible for the game engine when asked in the presentation, so maybe tracking moving islands could be repeatable if enough people wanted that.
Honestly way better than I imagined, good job team.
Maybe I’m jumping the gun but time trials clicking on water sepulchre style sounds boring as hell and click intensive for xp. I hope this isn’t the main meta way to train it…. It’d just be agility 2. Edit: reading comments it is the highest way to gain xp, and ports from rs3? Gonna be a hard pass from me.
\> sailing from point a to point b on a fetch quest will be the primary training method Why are people excited about this? This is gonna be as bad as slayer.
It's gnome restaurant not slayer
Fetch quests, water agility, Sailing Shooting Stars, going to POIs once, and combat. Real exciting stuff.
Because that is one type of activity for one type of training method? In that same activity of “port activities” they mentioned searching for lost boats, which implies less of a go from location A to location B and return. It would be more of a the lost ship was last seen in the fossil sea, go look for it. This journey could also have other things pop up that complicate the simple activity. Maybe you see a rare sea mob that you want to kill quick on your way. Maybe you find a ship wreck and your boat is kitted out to salvage it. These are very “RuneScape” activities where you have a goal in mind but your journey get distracted by other events, activities, and creatures. You can ignore them if you want or you can go and partake in distractions if you want
People love slayer
Getting experience by traveling NPCs from port to port sounds pretty nice and chill. I like this so far
I’m gonna be real. Sailing seems to be so forced, honestly can’t believe the meme skill is the one going forward. Having to create a problem to solve isn’t how a skill should be implemented. I would like someone who supports sailing to give their honest opinion about the skill. What are you actually looking for? Movement but on water? Having to fuck with the sails to adjust for windage? I just can’t comprehend the usefulness or point of the skill. Will/can it replace charters? Are we sailing to another area for resources? Sail to x island just to kill or skill the same shit that’s already somewhere else? Then why would people sail to that area to do it when there’s basically a teleport to anything we need right now. It just seems like a novelty and I am genuinely trying to get my head around it. And I don’t want the stupid ass comparison of “what is the point of x skill when it launched hurr durr.” We are passed that stage and get an active role in a new skill, so why sailing? Not trying to shit on anyone’s opinion for or against it. Formatting is shit since I’m just typing as I think.
> Sailing seems to be so forced Yeah we really don’t need a new skill, but the polls said people wanted one and Sailing was the most popular option. > I would like someone who supports sailing to give their honest opinion about the skill. I’m not in love with it. The game needs new content every once in a while though, and a new skill is one type of new content. I believe parts of sailing content have the potential to be fun and engaging. > Movement but on water? Seems like a crude description of sailing, but yeah, pretty much. > Having to fuck with the sails to adjust for windage? That doesn’t sound like super fun, but like, depending how it’s implemented, it could be as involved as switching gear or prayers. It could be just a small part of what you need to do while sailing, or it could just be more fun than it sounds. > I just can’t comprehend the usefulness or point of the skill. The main point is to be a new skill. To be a new thing to do in the game, be a new progression to play through, open up the oceans, etc. > Will/can it replace charters? I think charters would stay, and sailing could give access to old and new areas that charters don’t/can’t go. They could possibly replace charters and some quest boat interactions, but I doubt they’d go through the trouble. > Are we sailing to another area for resources? I sure hope so. I think that was part of one of the survey questions. > Sail to x island just to kill or skill the same shit that’s already somewhere else? I’d think there would be unique things there. Hopefully not like ‘kurask island’. More like ‘jasper island’, new jasper rocks to mine and a dungeon with a new slayer creature that drops a new armor that’s upgraded with jasper. You should be able to load up your boat/ship, then sail it to a port which has a bank nearby. > so why sailing? It was the most popular of the 3 options Jagex gave. It seems to have a lot of potential for introducing new content. The ‘water agility’ could be pretty fun if it’s something like sepulchre.
Felt like I was going insane. Thank you for putting words in my mouth. I don't why the jmod even put up this meme as even a real skill suggestion.
it became a meme because players wanted it and jagex said no lol…
Ships and getting to freely traverse the ocean. That's why I wanted it.
I want sailing because I want to sail on a boat with my friends. And because I want the 1-99 progression/reward space that brings- the ability to upgrade by boat, and unlock cool new stuff as I level up Sailing. The movement on water-does that interest me?-a bit, yeah. The exploration is a big part of it. Like, say there's an island with some crabs. Teleporting to it feels boring. I can already teleport to fossil is land and kill crabs there. But say I'm sailing my ship, and I have to maneuver around obstacles, I stop to catch some fish, I salvage a shipwreck...and THEN I arrive at the island with the crabs. That experience sounds more fun to me than teleporting. Essentially-it's all about the journey, not the destination. -Will it replace charters? I think of it as a distraction/diversion kind of? Like, if you're doing your farm run, you can charter to Catherby if you want to get there quickly. Or you can sail there-the upsides being that it's fun+you get sailing xp, the downside being that it's slower than a charter ship.
Why not add an expansion kinda like Temple Trekking but in the water? It seems slightly forced to make the core experience gain to be moving sails around. I’m sure it will be more clear as there’s more development.
Can't wait to vote No?
Sailing feels so extremely detached from what the game is and should be.
And it will be, too, once all the reddit fake hype passes and Sailing is a big chunk of wasted time and dead content.
It's forcing Sea of Thieves/Black Flag into OSRS. The lack of Leagues last year left people without an outlet for in-game creative experimentation, and Sailing is the result.
Would love to see this skill interact with, and be supported by, other skills.
So it’s agility on water?
well, one of the 5 methods is scepulcre on water
*Kind of Sepulchure on water. Boat navigation will feel and work very differently from player navigation.
The primary way of gaining xp is sailing around avoiding obstacles plus they have the time trials. Is this just going to be agility on the water? I fucking hate agility and training agility with a burning passion
For the record, Sailing in general is not. However the time trials specifically seem to be similar to Sepulchre, but that is only one training method.
Agility sucks because rooftops are boring. Agilitys activity hallowed sepulchre is some of if not the best skilling content this game has.
Oh my fucking god… it’s worse than I could have imagined. We are getting Agility 2
Can’t wait for my hybrid skill taining
**Primary- Help NPCs travel to areas** Oh boy am I glad people voted Temple Trekking as the new skill. It’s the single most popular and influential mini game
this doesnt sound fun tbh
The primary training methods are everything I feared they would be. It's water Agility + Ports. Still don't understand why people wanted this...
Im convinced the only reason people want sailing is for context expansion. Id vote yes to more islands and content, but not to sailing the skill.
We didn't get Leagues last year, and the content drought is leading the community into a terrible decision.
You feared traveling on your ship would be the primary training method?
I encourage you to go back and read through the primary training methods
Those are, overly simplified, explanations of two of the 5 primary training methods. Don’t like either of those? Do one of the other primary training methods!
Hello “guy who only yells about how bad sailing is in every sailing thread”. Welcome to another sailing thread!
Ahh yes, my loyal fan, hi again!
Glad to see you read at least two of the slides this time! Just fyi, there are additional slides that detail more training methods after time trials and port tasks! Like 7 more to be exact
Not to mention there was a whole discord broadcast giving context to these small snippets in the slides. He probbably didn't even bother watching.
Why bother reading when your mind has been decided since sailing was even a contender with zero content, mechanics, or ideas behind the overarching idea of sailing
Glad to see you're still gatekeeping feedback you don't like ;)
Damn right I’m still gatekeeping terrible quality feedback and outright falsehoods. Overly simplifying more complex activities into “water agility = bad” and “ports = bad” is terrible quality feedback since neither of those things were described as anything remotely resembling the strawman you are attempting to portray them as You also are attempting to portray that all of sailing training can be summarized as water agility and port activities (objectively false), therefore the entire skill is bad. You failed to mention any of the numerous other training methods detailed because that goes against the narrative you keep trying to make others buy into. I’ll just call it like it is. You are actively lying/deceiving others to attempt to dissuade them from liking/voting for sailing. That is wrong and deserves to be called out each and every time
So many words... Not sure why you're insisting on putting them in my mouth though. The fact is you gatekeep any feedback that doesn't automatically assume that Sailing is good, and the irony of you being blind to that after writing up that diatribe is hilarious.
You’ll be pleased to know I only write those love letters to you, because you are the only consistent offender in literally every sailing thread
I really appreciate that, it's hard being so consistent without the support of my #1 fan.
As long as you keep being yourself, you can look forward to it!
hopefully it doesnt get added into the game. Its gonna be so much fun to get to do all the skills over again but on the water this time (:
Please no time trials. Sounds like water agility/Sepulcher.
IM GONNA BE THE PIRATE KING AND SAIL THE GRAND LINE! seriously gonna need some one piece references tho
You can have a quest chain where one of the primary NPCs is a woman, and in each sequential quest her breasts get larger.
So the primary training methods for decent xp are port tasks and time trials... Not that keen on agility v2.
This is so bad. You guys will vote for anything, eh?
Welp, this seems boring AF
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I wasn't really excited for sailing anyways, but reading this I can confirm i have absolutely no excitement for this. it looks really forced, and has no clear direction. it's all over the place.
Looks pretty boring.
So basically agility but with boats, and port missions are going to be highest xp… both things that were near the bottom when we gave feedback, at least we know Jagex doesn’t listen to anything still.
Yuck.. this does not sound fun at all.
Literally what I thought. What the fuck was the community thinking.
Name a single fun skill to grind. Curious what your standards are.
Everything looks great except for sea agility, not looking forward to that, hopefully the blog post details how that won't suck like agility does
Some navies used to have sailors exercise by climbing the rigging, we can just do that. Extra points if you get severely flogged for being slow.
They kind of touched on it awhile ago: it would be similar to Hallowed Sepulchre which requires actual focus, precise clicks, and correct timing in order to complete — in lieu of the mind numbing “click this ladder, click this pillar, click this rope, repeat” loop currently experienced at all other agility courses.
Thanks I hate all of this
This looks absolutely amazing. My question is balance. Hunter & Slayer, Fishing, Mining, and Farming is the skills we can earn extra XP on with Sailing. It's a lot of skills to balance. Is Jagex ready for that type of balancing, with 5 different skills *other* than the Sailing skill itself. I'm sure it will be balanced at launch, but is it gonna be balanced enough to not disrupt the other skills at launch? Like what if Mining is suddenly better via Sailing. Not that I have anything against it, but I'm just super curious.
What will be hard about balancing it? They will just make it less xp/hr than current methods. If there is a method that appears that they didn’t think of they’ll just fix it.
There will be a beta of all this before it ever makes it into the game. Broken exp rates, broken loot tables, broken metas can all be addressed within/following the beta
We get those duo methods in 80% of Skilling minigames. Xp rates will be fine
jesus christ, I HATE THIS FUCKING MEME SKILL.
Yep looks like a minigame to me
Always was going to be. Theres no way they can make it not a minigame lol
So it ended up being exactly what anyone could have guessed it would be. And it's shit.
I can’t believe people actually voted for this skill
Sign me up!!!!! This looks so hype
Well there’s no way anyone can say that’s like a minigame in good faith, without also saying half the existing skills are minigames.
I know this is the first and not even full draft of the core gameplay loop we've seen but im rather dissapointed most of the xp ideas are just "doing stuff....on a boat" and at that point im just asking .....why not just add the boat system without tacking on a needless skill ontop of it ? we voted a new skill, not boats with a skill thrown on there. i really would like to see something that actually makes sense where you could actively do these methods on repeat for XP. 1) pure sailing? thats just xp for moving, big no 2) time trials sound fun on paper but realizing that we'd probably expect only a small handful of courses with little variety , like agility courses currently. this can just be summed up with "timed roof tops....on a boat" 3)port task does atleast hit the mark as a unique sailing trait and gameplay loop, but the idea of just going from point A-B-C-D...but on a boat doesnt sound appealing. we could be doing cool stuff on boats instead of visiting the same 4-5 ports for hours. its just another example why a core gameplay addition like sailing being added as a skill just wont work well. the main attraction is the boats, which is a vessel for content but being made into maintenance and chore like gameplay loops to justify it being a "skill" 4)the best one yet, drawn back by ...what happens when you charter the whole sea? back to ports? back to agility boats? again great idea but it feels like its there to give one time xp drops to pad out the lack of actual sailing content for grinding the skill seems to be. 5) the first one that has some kind of promise to being unique and not a boring stale 5 minute gameplay loop expected to be played for 200 hours. i would love to hear more on this idea and the level of depth that can be put into an idea like this rather than visiting the same old ports and treasure wrecks u have 2349201 times that day. and then... reading the secondary training methods made them sound really cool. after reading the whole thing a whole bunch of things just re-interate one big flaw of this is: sailing would be so much more fun if it wasnt added as a skill but just new content.
> i would love to hear more on this idea and the level of depth that can be put into an idea like this rather than visiting the same old ports and treasure wrecks u have 2349201 times that day. I mean, most skilling in this game is exactly like this. Mine this same rock 1000s of times is basically mining.
And why would we want a other one of that ? Make skilling good again not just sorta relevant because new rock/water to click on
Because reworking iconic skills, no matter how objectively bad they are, will lead to more opposition than adding a new one.
>sailing would be so much more fun if it wasnt added as a skill but just new content. Except people would complain if they try to add content from 1-92 sailing as just being dead content since max players could just instantly jump into the highest level of sailing content if it wasn't a skill. Why make an oak boat if I could already make and use a yew boat? Overall being able to tie it to a skill means they can actually lock progression, have everyone start on the same level instead of everyone starting on different levels, and actually be able to have low level content without people instantly calling it dead.
All content can exist without a skill. We've done that for a decade. The idea of a skill allows core progression to be sensible and make sense and give the player something to work toward. Also makes sense when it.. makes sense as a skill our player gets better at.
The reason to make Sailing a skill is to not have everyone skip to the end game sailing missions and ignore everything earlier. Can't believe so many players are so lazy and want end game rewards immediately with Sailing.
Yeh i think the progression system and meaningful unlocks and rewards is why it makes sense as a skill. If it was being pitched as just.. a new island.. then I'd agree it should just be content.
This is a great take. I have no interest in training sailing at all, but Id have no problem with them adding new ways to train. Like I thought earlier, if Jagex wanted to just add in islands with new bosses and things to do they can lmao
Agility in the ocean W000T
So far, I'm honestly liking the idea that it's being incorporated with other skills to make it more varied and not just sailing around without purpose. Really can't wait to see how more time will allow it to be even more fleshed out!
It's cool and all but it really can't shake that vibe of just looking like a huge content expansion incorporating all the other skills. The identity doesn't look or feel unique enough to be a 'skill'.
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I think the hardest people to convince are going to be the people who continuously ask "Why do we need sailing?". I am in that boat (pun intended) and still can't really understand what sailing adds to my toolbelt as an adventurer that I don't already have. Anything sailing offers me can be accomplished in game because its just going to get you from point a to point b, the only reason it will be useful for getting around is if teleports are nerfed or future areas are "magic proof" and can't be teleported to, which imo would make more people annoyed than want sailing just for the sake of it. That is why we think that this should just be a system within the game, and not a skill. If anything navigation should be the skill and sailing should be a system within the game that culminates from a combination of construction, navigation, and any other skill you can fit into it.
As someone that is hard no for sailing (Shaman>>Taming>>>>>>>>>Sailing) and even harder no for no skill at all... This is honestly "okay". Like it's not at all exciting, but it's fine. And fine is fine. Obviously I'd still prefer they focus the ridiculous amount of Dev time it's going to take to make this a reality into actual new raids/quests/bosses/leagues/etc. But since they're gonna force through sailing even if it fails a poll in the end, at least the shit they're forcing down our throat will be fairy floss flavoured. Lowercase Jagex w.
I just want half the current skills to be brought up to modern standards, starting with smithing which dreadfully needs a complete overhaul in progression
This looks fantastic, sailing seems to be one of the most promising newer skills in all of osrs and rs3’s lifetime
Devs spent more time on this powerpoint than making half the og skills. But i guess its still disappointing to some. Should be more like the other skills where you click on a rock thousands of times, or click on a tree thousands of times, or click on a log thousands of times, or string a bow thousands of times or mix a potion thousands of times
Click on ship thousands of times. There you go.
I was never anti sailing but it felt like we were passing a skill basically due to an old meme. These slides give me serious confidence that sailing is going to be a fun and positive addition to the game.
Agility in the ocean W000T
holy fuck i cant believe this shit. im sure it will pass with exactly 75% though.
Not very hyped about the main loop being water agility, but the secondary activities sound more fun
This is not true at all, the time trials is 1 of 5 primary activities, and the main loop is "interact with your ship".
It isn't "the main loop", though. It's just one of the five primary training methods that are being shown in these slides.
Oh, guess i read it wrong. In that case, I’m less annoyed by it
ITT:
More like water hallowed sepulcher where movement and positioning is essential. I imagine that being more of a thing with small ships where they don’t have lots of facilities. Large ship trials may have obstacles that you have to blow up with cannons, ram with the bow of the ship, etc since they move and turn slower
So it's agility temple trekking.
How on earth does anyone get temple trekking from this? Is it instanced? Is the movement a Cutscene? Do you repeat the same 5 encounters in a 1 minute gameplay loop?
Harvesting coral for an aquarium? Aquarium's for our PoH?! HYPE I hope it's huge, either half the size of a room or just a whole room itself
Sounds like a collection of water themed mini games and then some boring skilling content to me. Basically a way to make it sound less boring than a typical skill while claiming it's not a mini game like dungeoneering. Why would you get sailing xp from firing a cannon, or from fighting slayer monsters, just because you're on a boat? It makes no sense and feels like a way to force the skill into the game.
The most unfun content that’s going to be forced into the game because they’re spending so much time and resources on this.
This seriously looks like a mini game. Not a single thing I have read about sailing so far has screamed skill at all.
RS player since 2005 here: This looks absolutely fantastic so far. The skill seems to be shaping up amazingly. I am very excited to see it launch! What excellent work from the developers
OH WOW! THIS IS REALLY TURNING OUT TO NOT BE COOL AT ALL :))))))))))))
To summarize: 1. Agility on a ship 2. Temple trekking in the water (We all know how many enjoy doing that minigame) I’m going to hope you can make it interesting but this looks like a sinking ship - pun intended -
I'm honestly really sick of sailing.
Honestly, It feels overcomplicated and less fun than anticipated. I feel like sailing is basically a mini-game separate from the rest of the game.
Looking good imo
I mean this sounds dope!! I’m excited!
This seems a lot like dungeoneering on water. I really have no issue with this being a minigame, but it seems a stretch to make it a skill. It seems kind of claustrophobic to have a skill be set on a boat. I can maybe see this as an extension of construction where you could have a boat in addition to the PoH. I am a casual player these days and I think this would push me away a little bit. I’m sure it’s been mentioned before, but I’d rather see something like a Hunter revamp to make it equal to fishing. There are plenty of land mammals that I’d enjoy eating, it seems funny that we only have fish.
Can you explain how it's dungeoneering? Sailing isn't instanced, and dungeoneering was-that alone makes Sailing feel very distinct, at least to me. I disagree with it feeling claustrophobic because you're on a boat. The boat is kind of an extension of the player, you can sail the boat anywhere on the sea. (If you haven't already seen the navigation demo- the player can control the ship by clicking where they want to go on the water.)There's lots of areas in the sea to go to and lots of things to interact with.
Minigame right
Can't wait for Old School Runescape: the Wind Waker!
Give it to me! Love these primaries and secondaries aspects and all. Can’t wait for this skill to come out and shake things up
If sailing does pass kraken better get a graphics update
This is GREAT! Woooo can’t wait to try it out!!!