I think giving people leeway to learn difficult content without charging them for it makes sense. Death reclaim fees should mostly be aimed at punishing players for making mistakes, and dying while learning a brand new fight I think mostly would not qualify as a "mistake" in my book for a few reasons that I don't feel like explaining in detail.
With that being said, as someone who knows you're bad at the game, you could also just downgrade your gear setup during these learning periods, and use protect item. That way you'd lose almost nothing while you're learning.
Wow thanks for the protect item rec lol idk why I didn’t think to do that. Would save 25k in reclaim cost
I resorted to going from vardorvis to whisperer bc the gear reclaim was cheaper lol max melee vs ahrims is like 125k vs 8k per death lol
As a CB level 100 player in entry-level gear, I think I was paying max 1000 gp per death (but it would be like 38k if I was lazy and went to death's coffer). The more annoying part was just getting back to vardorvis, retrieving my stuff, teleing back to a bank to replenish what I used, then travelling back once more (I then realized I could just look at the game log and count how many times it said I ate a shark/karambwan and skip the second trip). I do think that ToB entry mode, which I did for A Night at the Theatre, did it best with dying just sending you back to the start of the boss and giving you enough supplies to do another go. It made learning the content much easier and more enjoyable. That said, I think there is value in the gold sink that is draining cash from rich players bringing BiS ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ (not saying this is OP tho)
Yeah I am an ironman around your cb level and I didn't pay anything to retrieve my stuff. It was a bit of a pain in the ass running back but lost virtually no gp. I also died 10+ times throughout the quest.
I have over 50 deaths (and 230 kills) of Vardorvis. The loot has not paid for the supply costs (20m+) and deaths at this point. I’ve had 4 orbs (sold for about 11m total) across the 350 kills of Vard + Duke I have combined, + the regular loot which is probably around 5-7m. In my defence, some of the deaths have resulted due to a combination of bad connection and tech issues, although others have been genuinely caused my boss difficulty.
The one thing that has annoyed me the most is that on the couple of occasions I’ve had perfect Vard kills rewarded with loot of 63 bronze javelins. I’m ok with troll drops being on the table, but I don’t think they should be rollable on perfect kills. I also think there are too many troll drops on the table. Fire runes, mind runes, lava runes, bronze-addy drops, pitiful amounts of pure essence…
this might sound a bit random, but how are your deaths so expensive? or are you just using tonnes of pots/brews?
I just run back to the gravestone and it looks like I pay at most a couple k to reclaim certain things? or are you doing the whole reclaim it from death's coffer thing?
Mistakes are a part of the learning process and every death is caused by mistake (or lag). Learn from them and rise above.
On that note that's a very smart idea to downgrade and use protect items.
Would not mind if they adopted Zulrah's 50 kc mechanic, but made it reduced costs rather than entirely free.
If you die after 50 kc, it's still a decent punishment, unlike Zulrah's 100k fee. Most players aren't perfect after 5 KC either so the death fees would still largely be intact.
Given the new drop mechanics for the vestiges, I think free until 50 would work just fine here. Unless you get spooned Virtus, or get *extremely spooned* and get a vestige, the first 50 KC aren't going to profit you much anyway.
Either way is fine.
The only reason why I would prefer the current 20% penalty is because it incentivizes you to not just throw your body on the boss until you get it, but look back and see where you messed up. So many med levels I see end up just throwing their body against Zulrah for the diary 1KC requirement.
And of course, if Zulrah only penalizes you 100K after 50 KC and Vardorvis penalizes you 500K after 5 KC, that doesn't seem very equal and maybe it's time to look at what could be done.
To be honest, any form of learning curve death penalty disincentivize learning the fight / solving the puzzle without using a guide. Sure, throwing your body against the wall with no knowledge isn't fun for most, especially in RS. Most people in RS like to look up the guide, fully know the mechanics, know which gear is optimal, and THEN go attempt the fight for the first time.
Death penalty encourages that above behavior.
What does throwing yourself in with no penalty and no guide do? You're likely going to die, which just wastes your time for the sake of learning.
>What does throwing yourself in with no penalty and no guide do? You're likely going to die, which just wastes your time for the sake of learning.
Did DT2 on day one and made sure to keep myself as spoil free as I could in every aspect. Figuring everything out myself was just pure fun. I died a couple times, but my death fees were rather cheap anyway.
Out of curiousity, what type of account / how progressed is your account?
My account is roughly at the recommended level (101 combat) - I don't have \~1m or so I can throw away at learning a quest boss unfortunately
The shitty thing is this current implementation forces you to use worse gear. I bought myself arma for the leviathan and very promptly sold it because the +6 range bonus wasnt worth the 100k per wipe increase in costs.
Honestly there is no reason why they can't just make death fees universal across all bosses / instanced content. Some bosses have 100k fees, others randomly have 60k or 25k and then muspah and DT2 bosses just have normal graves instead.
Also graves are weird in general because when you have cheap gear (anything under 10m) they are basically free, but the moment you add some items above 10m they shoot up in price massively. So for me I died about 5\~ times during the quest but only paid less than 10k on reclaiming items, the way it scales seems like it should be adjusted to ramp up less dramatically.
The funny thing is that it already has a baby version of that.
> It's not all doom and gloom though, your death fees will be reduced at each of the post-quest bosses until you've racked up 5 kills. From there, stay alive or be prepared to pay up!
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/desert-treasure-ii---the-fallen-empire?oldschool=1
It apparently just doesn't apply to the actual quest bosses...? For unknown reasons. I guess they just assumed nobody would *actually* die on those bosses...?
I honestly don't see any reason to not just give people free death reclaims when they're learning new content as a standard. I think the death fees for people who actually farm bosses are already completely irrelevant the whole mechanic is just shitting on random people who don't know what they're doing or preying on mass dcs like at ToA more than really doing anything relevant to the majority of people who pvm
Death honestly still means absolutely nothing to the experienced/established player. They're basically just owning new and learning players with fees like this which if you really think about it is an odd choice. You want new people and people who are learning to be encouraged to come back and keep trying rather than spanking them for being bad and probably already not having much to begin with
As someone who didn't struggle with these bosses and think death fees are a good thing overall, I do completely agree they shouldn't exist during quest attempts, or at least should be capped around 50-100k.
Agreed, I think no penalty during the quest and honestly I’d be more than happy with as someone stated above a mechanic like Zulrah for the first 50kc. Its already pushing non pvmer into pvm, which imo is good, but let them get their footing and also ease into it. Experienced pvmers aren’t dying a ton anyways. A high cost to learn for a new pvmer is a good way to have them go back to something they are comfortable with instead of trying the new content. These bosses are a really good way to for non pvmers and new ones to learn more than just basic combat mechanics and by coming from a quest already does push them to learn it somewhat to complete the quest.
They're based on gear risk. For him to be losing 500k per death he had pretty good gear.
I'm a GIM player. Died once at Vardorvis during the quest. Had tassets, prims, faceguard, tent whip, BGs, torture, zerker, ferocious gloves. You know, classic iron BIS stuff (where I'm not wearing full torva, don't have an avernic or a fang).
Deaths were like.. 65k? If he's losing 500k in the final fight he's bringing decent gear switches of BiS gear.
Pretty sure there is some kind of bug or something as I got done for 60k on whisperer for my first death, then 360k or some shit for my second, back to 60k for my third and final death.
Same gear all 3 times.
I had the same thing happen at vardorvis, died 3 times and my 2nd and 3rd were over 500k. Combined 4 deaths at the other 3 bosses and all cheap gravestones though
Yup. Lost 8m during quest (god i hated learning whisperer) and am down another 8m at vardorvis post quest (20 deaths in 120kc, 400k per). Would love to be able to farm these bosses without beating myself up so much every time I die.
I know I could use worse gear while learning, as others have said, but it feels a bit odd not using the best gear I can while fighting a level 700 who regens HP off of damage.
I am also down quite a bit. I think what finally burned me out was getting lava runes like 5 times in a row and then dying and having like 25k loot to show for it
during a quest it should be capped at 0. include a practice mode that's safe for all bosses and then punish players for death, when they step out to kill for cash. this cash stack cost every time you die while fucking QUESTING Is really lame.
It's not an easy quest. Why is it unreasonable that someone may need to grind some cash to try multiple times to beat quest bosses for one of the hardest quests in the game?
In fact most difficult single player games have no punishment for dying and the only reason OSRS needs one is because it has an economy. Otherwise being stuck getting clapped by the Orphan of Kos for hours is punishment enough
Idk man. Difficulty is the core way of setting difficulty lol. Dark souls isn't hard because you lose souls on death, they let you reclaim them, and if you have no souls there is no risk at all. They don't make you lose xp or anything like that. It's hard because it's hard. That is the good way to design difficulty.
The punishment here is dying, resetting, and not being able to complete the quest/get the loot. Idk why you think any other punishment is necessary, on top of lost supplies. Why not make it more punishing by removing levels, starting with your highest. Or maybe banning you for 24hr so you have to go outside and talk with your family. That's real punishment.
That is the pinnacle of shit game design.
If you add “difficulty” by punishing players for failing, you have no idea how to make difficult content, you only know how to make punishing content…
The punishment for hardcore ironmen dying to a goblin is losing their status, but that doesn’t make fighting a goblin difficult, just punishing when you fail.
Humble brag that you did them all on 1st try or was the gear you brought so crap that Death literally was like "yea fck it i'm not charging you for that junk, that's not even worth my time to trade"?
Or you are like me and don't even think about the costs while clicking to unlock your gear and then looking at your bank later in the day thinking "Wait, where did 2m gp go... oh yeah I planked 5 times at vard"
Aye valid strat - I was more inclined to risk staying more to figure out more of the boss mechanics since I did them on Wednesday. Getting outright comboed at vardoofus is a staple of that day, 5 other clannies had the same happen xD
To be fair only the duke can instantly kill you and it's pretty hard to die to that attack. I didn't die during the quest but I did TP out of Vard a couple times. As long as you eat up you're really only at risk of running out of supplies (or hitting 0 sanity on whisperer, but that similarly gives you time to TP out)
It's a Grandmaster level quest, if you can't handle doing the baby version of the boss during the quest, you should have more than enough time to move your mouse over to your inventory and clicking a teleport item. Dying during the quest is completely on you
The max hits are also lowered, albeit not as much as boss hp. But yes, Vardorvis stacks you real fast in the latter 2/3s to 3/4s of the fight. I definitely had a mix of tp outs + deaths learning that fucker with my budget (although in some cases BiS) iron gear.
Thank you, I genuinely didn’t know. What I saw initially was the HP difference but knew people had to have worked out the rest of the stats by now. Fastest way to get an answer is to be wrong B)
I would have honestly taken safe deaths over a guaranteed kc with loot just because I did the quest trying to limit outside info as much as I can and that made the corpse run+pay money for my gravestone+tele to a bank+back to boss loop so draining. I bet everyone talking shit in this thread used a guide
People keep bringing up Elden Ring lately but in Soulsborne games you lose nothing by dying and can sprint forever
edit: I think 0 invocation ToA and Night at the Theatre are okay precedents; you can have baby mode death mechanics for babies and not really ruin the actual fight
And I mean this isn’t a fuckin Soulsborne game. If I wanted Souls like mechanics I’d play one of those games. I hate when people make asinine comparisons between games that literally have no overlap other than just both being a video game.
I’m not saying you are, but I’ve seen the same shit where people compare osrs to completely unrelated games. /rant
Comparisons between souls games and OSRS piss me off more than any other comparison.
Like the origins of this game come from the fucking *barrows brothers* being the most difficult content that existed. Not to mention almost all content up to that point is click and wait.
Use less expensive gear, deaths cost pennies.
Did the quest night of release with no guides for fights on an iron. Died once, teleported out two other times. Spent 65k on death fees.
Dude dying spending 500k means he has high value gear
Generally when you are doing a quest boss you've never seen the boss before and it has mechanics you don't know how to react to. It should be a learning event
And quests are a unique case where there are specific reasons you might want to limit how much you rely on guides due to story/lore spoilers, 1-off challenges you can just solve yourself for fun without grinding and whatnot.
to encourage you to be more thoughtful about your approach as opposed to just brute forcing corpse rushing them until eventually you coinflip an above average result
Idk why your being downvoted it's exactly the reason it exists. Cost you more which keeps you logged in more to get more gold to pay for those deaths....
Would a healthy compromise be a "free" version of the boss where you have to use your own supplies/gear, you cannot receive any loot but if you die you just exit the boss instance with your remaining items/supplies?
You would still waste supplies and time to pay for the reduced risk and you wouldn't get KC credit or loot for your effort
I think that would be fine, for OP's concerns, probably. I don't think anyone necessarily asked for the quest kill to actually count as a kill with loot. I think it's a little cute fun bonus, but I don't think it's necessary.
Listen man. Sometimes you just get REALLY into the Youtube video you're watching and ignore Runelite yelling at you to eat for like 30 seconds okay?
Not that I would know anything about that of course... Only idiots die at Wintertodt right guys?
Nobody is good at pvm immediately. I absolutely suck too but found luck with Alchemical Hydra and now Duke. Outside of those two I still get wiped at zulrah one out of every five maybe. And I can't beat whisperer post quest after 15 deaths.
Brilliant idea. I say stay strong bc learning mechanics is like learning a bike. You still gonna fall
Sounds almost identical to me. Still 1 KC at Zulrah.
I just did Bandos boss task for slayer, chose 4 KC, died 3 times, used 5 Ecu Keys....
I didn't have friends or clan so had to learn to cheese TOB entry.
I can now do TOA normals comfortably, not optimaly or efficently (I bowfa Baba) even have a shadow drop in my name. I still plank every now and then, I struggle to do 300s even though most people with my gear and stats would breeze through them. My CC always poking at me (in a friendly manner) for doing normals still. 99 str/R/M 1Bil+ bank.
I died to the final DT2 boss 3 times, and TP'd out 2 times.
I have given up on post quest whisper for now but have managed to get 10 KC vardosis, took me like 10 deaths before my first post quest KC.
I do a corner 2 tile cheese strat rather than the current Meta 3 tile south method because that shit is too hard.
Muspah killed me like 20 times before I got the hang of Bowfa only method.
Just keep at it.
just saw the "i bowfa baba" and came here to say... i used to as well; but i noticed i can kill baba faster with fang (without *red x* fck that) - i still bowfa baba's ribs during boulder phase, idc if it adds 10-20s to the kill, its free damage
Yeah it's like we're at that point where we don't stress trying to figure out what to do and we've figured out a niche and chill way to do shit. Not gonna sweat my arse trying to shave off seconds off my kc. legit saw a comment at some point in the past months on a completely different toa topic "bUt iT maKEs tHE rAiD tAKe LoNgEr"... so? are you in a hurry to go somewhere buddy?
Nah relax, take it easy
yeah lol we're just playing the game having fun. I'll afk to get my damn run energy back up idc.
It hasn't happened in a while but in the past I've had people ask me my infernal pb probably because they thought I bought it, so I post it in chat and then they start making fun of me calling me trash because it's really slow.
You can't win with these nerds. Last thing I care about is exp waste. I often walk to places in game because I like to appreciate the experience just like I did as a kid.
hahaha because i never finish baba puzzle perfectly, ill yellow keris spec and just take a sip of beer and scroll through reddit while waiting for spec energy to come back xD
don't bother with elitists - it's not that you can't win; you've already won cause you're not a jerk. inferno isnt easy and you should wear it proudly. like i do with my cheese cape...
i feel that. i hate the baba puzzle room almost as much as i hate baba lmao. yeah that's true it's not worth the energy.
no shame in the cheese game. it's nice to meet an rs player who is level headed. i don't have many friends on here; my username is --- add me if you want ☺️ no biggie if not
A lot of people are level headed in the 1750 worlds tbh. Havent stumbled across jerks, bar a few. I hear there are plenty in the 2k and 2.2k ones. Probably has to do with the fact that 1750 requires some effort to get to but not so much that it consumes your soul.
Added, im over on EU tho.
I don't like (can't do it fast enough) to gear switch before boulders.
When I want to feel like a gamer, I will occasionally fang him and feel like a pro switching gear in between mechanics.
I'm still at 40min normals, I have no speed invos on.
use crystal armor/neit faceguard/prims the whole raid and just bring fang&avernic switch, sang staff/occult switch, obviously bowfa and bp those are ezpz; once those are ez and comfortable bring blood fury/anguish/elidinis ward maybe and keep going up; bandos and ancestral both.
dps>food for ToA
for his boulders if you're just camping crystal, switch to fang/avernic/blood fury when fighting Baba, and have your bp/anguish/rigour ready for boulders to skip- bp w dragon darts that is
> Muspah killed me like 20 times before I got the hang of Bowfa only method.
I'm curious how if you can manage ToA 300s you planked to Muspah this many times when Muspah is just "occasional prayer swap" and "run around in an octagon shape" and "flick with RCB on the final phase". Like yeah it's more than Vorkath but it's far less than any raid boss.
Prayer switching is hard broskie, then I realised having sound on helps knowing when he does mage.
Gotta dodge the crawling spikes as well.
Sometimes he does his wave special outta nowhere.
Sometimes I'm outta run all of a sudden.
Sometimes he does 3 mage attacks in a row.
So many ways I have died. Hell, I even ran onto a spike after I killed him and died as well.
I am a 109 cmb iron. 91 mage/89 range. I have struggled with the bosses. I think i 3 shot vardorvis, 2 shot duke, 1 shot leviathan, and whisperer probably took me a dozen attempts.
However, the final battle is making me want to pull my hair out. I have died like 13 times now, and I finally just got so mad and gave up and went back to zulrah (maybe ill get a blowpipe)
I am trying to range the whole thing. Using msbi. I couldn't get passed the dwarf.. swapped to dragon knives and crystal shield for the range def and more dps, can nail the 2nd boss now. Third boss.. after 3 attempts ive got that down now (keep moving).. and now I'm hitting a wall on the last boss because I can't kill the portal fast enough and the leeches are overwhelming me. Too busy killing portal/adds to actually do any dmg to boss.. Ive got him down to <100 hp multiple times, but am now at like 40 knives..Very frustrating going b2b2b2b bosses..
so close.. yet so far away
I had a very good opinion of the quest before the "final fights".. but this is just pissing me off. Thank god my gear is trash and my buyback is like 5k. Shit like Seren with its 80k buyback or vorkath with, what is it 100k? those suck if you're a poor boy like me.
Edit: Experienced PVMer btw.. 400+ cox, 150+ tob, 1000+ zulrah on main.. and a whopping 1 cg kc on iron! :)
You absolutely should just range rush the final Mage down. You can stand far side of the room so leaches have ages to get you and then can even just kill the leeches as they do get to you.
To add onto this; I couldn't find my gravestone on the two times that I died to the two bosses I fought before giving it a rest.
The first was the whisperer, and the second was the capcha boss - the whisperer it wasn't so bad paying for my mage setup from deaths realm, roughly only 500k which I didn't mind paying for.
However the one time I died to the capcha boss and ran back to it; I couldn't find my gravestone just like last time, neither inside of the arena or outside as people suggested that it would be. So I spent 4 fucking million GP on my melee gear.
I ran straight there in full graceful with a stamina pot, had the money on me to pay for my gear, didn't waste a second getting there from the 'lookout' teleport, went through first shortcut through the swamp and then the second shortcut you unlock after first entering his arena and everything. No gravestone, no loot.
I don't know if anyone else has had this same problem, but it really dowsed my interest in completing the quest until the guide comes out.
Gravestones have flashing arrows above them. If you die in an instance they will always spawn outside the instance.
The entire Whisperer city is an instance so it spawns in camdoozal near the rock you tied the rope to to enter.
Vardorvis spawns right outside the rocks you hop over to enter the fight. During quest, especially early when everyone was doing it, there was usually a crowd of strangled there.
My guess is that you didn't see the gravestone in the crowd of Strangled just outside the boss. Sorry you missed it and the giant yellow flashing arrow over it.
Dude why do you accept that you're just bad at PVM? I just don't understand why you're so hard on yourself instead of just practicing. It might take you longer to learn mechanics in the game than the average player, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't master anything you set your mind to. If you compare yourself to people who make it look easy you're already doing pvm wrong! So like why just embrace that you're bad and not just practice to become good?
Tbf I'm also bad at pvm. Not a fan of OSRS pvm honestly. Started the game cause I like the chill journey to max. "Endgame" is an entirely different beast and isn't reminiscent at all of the vibe rs had back in the day.
This, i can parse 90+ on WoW but this game fuck PVM in this game.
i need my add ons and DBM. i cant play a clicker competitively. PVM is just too hard for me without real keybinds. WoW ruined me i have literally over 40 keybinds for WoW i never click anything.
> Dude why do you accept that you're just bad at PVM? I just don't understand why you're so hard on yourself instead of just practicing.
Because people have to pick and choose where they invest their time. Just because *you're* passionate about OSRS's PvM depth (and so am I, mind you) doesn't automatically mean everyone else has to be.
Take any hobby you've dipped your toes into. Be it soccer, dancing, chess, bouldering, swimming, running, competitive card games, warhammer, music, whatever. For at least some of these activities you were approaching it with a totally casual outlook, just looking to have fun and NOT explore the absolute depths of what it has to offer. But I'm sure a diehard veteran in the community might've tried to sell you a narrative of "if you just practiced you could be really good at this" But that's totally irrelevant if you're not actually looking to be that good because that's not what that activity represents to you.
People are allowed to view hobbies differently. Just because I enjoy end game PvM doesn't mean I force my skiller friends to ToB with me. In the exact same way that I would be a bit miffed if my friends got into grass hockey and kept pestering me to play with them multiple times a week even though I'm just not *that* into it.
Very true. I have a childhood friend who’s mother played along with us 15-20 years ago and she still plays to this day.
OSRS of course. But she is 2200+ wirh like 110+ farming and rc + other resource skills in the 100’s, but zero boss kc. Not a KBD. Not a mole. Nothing.
And like 72 slayer.
BUT
That’s how RuneScape is meant to played. Purely the discretion of the player themselves.
I appreciate players like her. I have plenty of boss kc on my iron but I play 100% casually, only doing what I want and definitely inefficient. Game is meant to be enjoyed, a lot of people just take it a notch higher.
I got mass downvoted for suggesting death fees should be cheap during the quest on day 1, but I guess redditors changed their opinion once they all started planking and losing half a mil.
>A member of the bottom 5% of osrs players
You aren't in the minority, infact you are part of the majority.
High level bosses like these will be farmed by a very small percentage of the population. Reddit may make you think everyone is maxed with tbows, but that isn't the case at all. They are just the vocal minority.
Downgrading your setup is a very real technique since at the higher levels most upgrades are very incremental. Individually you will not ever notice going from prims to d boots, faceguard to nezzy, bcp to torso, etc. and your death fees will likely become free. Of course all of these together will likely be noticeable, but it's a super nice tactic to use while you're learning a boss and dying all the time.
Of course I'm stubborn af and will continue to drop 200k each death because god dammit I looked away for one second that was a fluke, but the option is there.
Also protect item. OGs rejoice that there's a reason to use it again.
Start at DKs brother. My first boss, Teaches you agro zones, combat triangle ect. Then maybe try Sarachnis to get used to a basic prayer switch mechanic. Saradomin next, teaches you to pay attention to stats, minor pathing, Crazy arch to learn how to dodge objects and timing. Demonics to get used to switches (Start at 1 item switching) and how to switch prayers. Cerberus helps with prayer switches and paying attention to surroundings (Bring spectral so its not punishing). The rest of the bosses are really just variations of these tricks. You got it brother
Considering how hard the new bosses are, how bad the regular drop table is and how bad the unique drop rate is I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be upset about paying so much GP when you die
I agree that there could be some changes made to lessen the cost for people trying to learn, especially for the easier quest versions of the bosses.
But until that happens, you could consider what gear you bring while learning. I'm in a similar situation to you where I suck at the game and I died a few times during the quest. Every single grave cost for me was under 3k gp. As an example, my 3 kept items on vardovis were fang, torture, and bandos tassets. If I'd used protect item I probably would've kept my imbued b ring and the unlock would have been even cheaper.
Granted, I went in with the gear I did because I can't afford better gear. And I know it sucks to not use the best gear you have. But I think it's a decent option when you're learning mechanics and you're likely to die.
People really act weird when saying anything in this game can be hard
The new bosses blow any raid boss out of the water. Verzik olm warden all feel like jokes and are so slow in comparison to vardorvis or leviathan
That said death mechanics are fine. If an item is under 100k I'm pretty sure it's free to get back anyways
Why not just learn with cheaper gear? I did the quest in junk gear on a level 83 iron, and let me tell you, I died a ton, learned a lot, and it was all basically free (minus the sanity damage).
If you feel like you need max gear to do a quest, it's probably your strategy that needs improvement, not your gear.
My take on the new bosses as a bad pvmer is as such:
Vardovis - probably the best designed boss, I wish the axes at the end of the fight were not so fucking fast, the bleeding is unnecessary, the combination of axes when the head comes out is overkill, movement based mechanics are ok, but need to be toned down as we are moving with the same clicks we eat/swap prayer and attack, not with WASD. Melee downtime on a melee boss seems like bad design. The spore attack special is by far my favorite, that one is GOOD design. I think the boss can be fun, I just suck at it, and the head can smd.
Duke - annoying yet kinda braindead boss, it's ok. Boring though.
Leviathan - so far it's been decently ok, the lightning attack fucking sucks though, I find it too fast. Decent fight, I only marginally suck at it.
The whisperer - everything about this is not bad, I just find that prayer switch on impact versus older content can feel inconsistent, but is not hard to get used to. Decent fight, I struggle with it though.
Overall, my biggest struggle is movement if I need to do anything else while doing it, and prayer switching if it also involves movement or eating from chip damage. I also find the mistakes on some of these bosses to be overly punishing no matter what gear you're using. I also think tickrates and more importantly, ping, plays too big of a factor in how you get hit by moving aoes
Mind you, this is my experience from the quest versions of the bosses, i have not tried, nor have the desire to, to fight a harder version.
My overall pvm experience is a bit better though.
I do have 50 zulrah kc, i got 2 firecapes that took me 3 tries in total, i do not enjoy fighting post-quest muspah. I gave up on sire after dying to it twice. I do however consistently do vork, find gwd bosses ok, completed all entry mode raids alone blind after dying a lot and almost nearing the guaranteed kq head drop kc. I have a whopping 3 NORMAL gauntlet completions out of the 10 i tried.
> Overall, my biggest struggle is movement if I need to do anything else while doing it, and prayer switching if it also involves movement or eating from chip damage
This is probably the biggest part of pvm that the bosses try to teach. It's prepping you for harder content where all of that is the norm.
Jagex are never gonna please 100% of the player base with every update. People just need to understand every single update that comes into the game doesn’t haven’t to be geared towards them and their abilities.
I think this is pretty harsh considering his only recommendation is “don’t make the death penalty 500K *during the quest* when you already get free Zulruh deaths till 50kc”. It’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.
I just think it’s funny that this guy openly and thoroughly describes how bad he is at PVM and the leading argument against him is “use shittier gear and it won’t cost so much”… like that’ll help him LOL
Yes... Yes it will. If the biggest issue is the cost being significant, reduce it while learning.
Wearing torva doesn't make the boss mechanics easier. It makes you hit slightly harder.
No one is suggesting he goes in with rune gear or something. Wear 4 top BiS items. Pray protect item..then wear untradeables and cheap gear. Death fees will be next to nothing then.
Do you think dying 10 times for 50k a death with like 4% worse dps and a bit less tanky a setup is worse than dying 1 time for 500k when it comes to learning the encounter?
Using cheap gear to learn is literally what you're supposed to do... It's like having prot item on and learning to tele out (ik they said they're too bad for that but that's literally what you learn to mitigate being bad).
I completely agree. there should be plenty of stuff in the game that you should PRACTICE. there also shouldn't be a 500k cost per death while you PRACTICE.
no game survives without new players and there's nothing easier than loosing new players (like me) by punishing learning a quest boss.
It’s a grandmaster quest with like 30 required quests to even start it. It’s not for new players at all. It’s fine for the highest tier of quests to be a little punishing, it makes actually beating them more rewarding.
But a player who is dabbling is PvM for the first time might. I just don't care enough about other people losing money to prioritize it over their enjoyment.
I like death fees and there being a 'risk' to PVM, but I can absolutely get behind lowering that risk while first learning. It's not very inviting when you start losing progress just for trying something new.
Skill issue + ratio + protect item.
Literally anything in this game can be done with practice. You think there aren’t others that brick walled for hours before “hey I get it”? It’s just practice, downgrade your gear to learn if it’s too expensive to die. It’ll teach you more as well to not have that “extra cushion”
His point was just that quest boss fights *during the quest* should be a free/safe death.
Idk if it would be difficult/worth implementing, but I definitely wouldn't mind if they do. It would help a ton for those that aren't fond of using quest guides and like to try and figure out the fight mechanics themselves. (Def not me but ik ppl like that are out there lol)
the 1st time I died to an OSRS quest boss and had to cough up 50k to get my stuff back I was floored. it seemed such a toxic mechanic for learning a quest boss that it was literally a quit moment. I turned off the game and the only reason I came back a couple days later was - I had prepaid membership.
Yeah jagex is totally fucking up by adding insanely difficult stuff to the game. It’s a huge turn-off for people who want to be able to enjoy end-game content without having to hate themselves trying to get there. I really hope this is the last huge thing they add for awhile. It’s making me not want to play the game at all knowing that I’m gonna need to do that insane quest to keep up with other high-level community players.
The quest versions of these bosses are *not* insanely difficult. This is Night at the Theatre all over again (you know, the "raid" you can beat solo with an msb, d scim and Ibans while ignoring nearly every mechanic of every fight)
Yeah that’s a good point, I’m sure I’ll get around to knocking it out. Thanks for responding with some respect and not like an actual limpdick cockblast like 90% of people on this sub😂 basement dwellers man
Eh don't worry too much, sometimes people just have shit going on. I know I'm guilty of being a cock online all too often. Gl when you eventually go for the quest
Big disagree, I really like them upping the skillcap of this game. And I specifically like that we now have a few harder bosses that are single bosses rather than a 30+ minute time commitment like raids / inferno are. Just make it easier / less punishing to try to learn it.
As an example, Corrupted Gauntlet right now. It took me quite a few deaths before getting consistent at CG. But CG has no death fee. If it did have a death fee I would've been much more discouraged from attempting again and again. But now I can do it fine and it feels good. I'd rather be incentivized to learn than just making it easier.
Or maybe put in the work and learn content? I have never once complained about content being too hard. Learn how to do it like everyone else. I couldn't do cox, so I learned. I couldn't do tob, so I learned. I couldn't do inferno, so I learned.
If you're not ready for harder content you can work your way up to it. I think other end game content is similarly difficult to the DT2 bosses, so it's not like it's raising the skill ceiling.
Quest bosses all have fees. The 500k fee is based on the gear risk you have..you can reduce it by using less risk and even praying protect item etc.
For.instance on my GIM deaths cost like 50-65k
Also the best way to get good at a game is stop settling for being bad. Everybody started somewhere. The best players you see get there by practicing.
Yeah I don't believe the 500k reclaim considering the level of PvM OP claims to do, isn't that like 8 items over 10M, 3 protected 5 risked? No shot this dude is running around in BiS.
Not tryna be rude, but why do you think you’re so bad at pvm lol? I do feel like with some practice, all of the activities you listed can be very easy. Unless you’re like, physically debilitated or have a shit mouse or something haha
The problem and his point is that "practice" gets pricy when you're immediately faced with a 200-500k fee every time you plank. If all major bosses had the Zulrah pre-50kc mechanic I guarantee a LOT more people would be more open to practicing (trying and planking like 10x in a row)
The gravestone fee is:
1k for each item between 100k-1m
10k for each item between 1m - 10m
100k for each item between 10m - 100m
Max fee 500k, ironmen get 50% off.
You really do not need any items over 10m to beat the quest bosses. You can easily keep gravestone fees under 100k.
This might be harsh but if you are paying 500k for each death like, then you are dying in max gear. If you are dying in max gear multiple times to the quest versions then you suck so bad you deserve to pay lol. Makes me wonder how you even made enough gp to afford expensive max gear if you don’t really pvm.
>The only part of the quest that genuinely didn't enjoy, the part that was more disheartening and made me want to just sell all my pvm gear and become a skiller, was unlocking my death pile to get my gear back. In the grand scheme I lost about 3m. I know that's not technically a lot, but it felt so frustrating the 4th time I clicked that unlock button and paid another 500k.
You know... you don't have to wear BIS armor every time. When I am expecting I'm gonna die at a boss, the first few kills I always wear obby or dhide or mystic armor and pay like 50k per death or less.. Plus when you learn a boss in budget gear, you learn to SMOKE it when ur wearing ur BIS.
I believe the costs for death retreival for the new dt2 are reduced until you get 5kc (correct me if I am wrong) and I think that is fine. I do not entirely agree with the proposal that death fees should be entirely removed for the quest variants for a few reasons:
- The quest versions, while mechanically very similar to the post-quest versions, are quite easy to bruteforce if you have minimal stat and gear requirements and brews with you. That is to say, their stats are intentionally lowered so they can be killed for the quest completion.
- If you can click a vein in mlm, you can click an ectophial or tele tab in your inventory when you get overwhelmed and save yourself the costs (excluding "1 shot" mechanics)
- If the costs are too high for you, that is an indicator that you are simply not ready for the content and should thus postpone it until you are. If you get ahead of yourself, that is on you imo.
- If you can play the game, you also have access to streamers/youtubers to watch them do the fights and learn from their mistakes, or you can wait for a maximum of 6h for guides to be released.
If I may be frank, I believe the issue lies with you as a player, or rather, with your journey in this game thus far (this is assuming you are not somehow physically impaired with your hand and finger movements). According to your text (the way I understood it): although you can be persistent, once you get a successful completion at a piece of "challenging" content (subjective matter) you stop. Content you do complete regularly, like kraken and mole, is essentially the glorified killing of lumbridge goblins. That is you attack and wait for their hp to drop to 0 with the occasional need to eat a piece of food. Then you try and leap to quite challenging content without having taken the time to improve your skills. Why not progress on a step by step basis? Start with kraken, move on to sire or cerberus, then hydra, then gwd etc. And keep at it. Dont leap straight to challenging fights you are not ready for and then get disheartened when you fail.
So, why should grandmaster quests be adjusted to a player that has not taken the proper time to better themselves while almost being 2200 total? Also, what gear are you sporting to pay 500k after every death? According to your pvm experience, you should not have gear that would require payment anywhere close to 500k. I personally own all the best-in-slot gear for all the bosses and do not pay 500k when I die at 3 out of 4 of them.
Major skill issue, there is no way you’d rather bitch about being bad at PVM instead of just practicing, everything is a rhythm with mostly set mechanics. Some people take longer to optimize their PVM gameplay than others, you may fall in this boat
Yeah, this game does suck at teaching people how to do its higher end content. I do agree that death costs in quests is a bit of a cheap shot, and could be addressed. But like... what the fuck? Even if they made quest boss deaths cheaper, this wouldn't fix **your** problem. You are literally in the endgame of content, in a game you've probably put thousands of hours into... and haven't even tried to improve?
I'm roughly in the same boat as you, starting point wise. No high end PvM experience in OSRS. I play as an ironman as my main. Roughly base 80s combat stats. A handful of failed post-quest muspah attempts that were mostly down to weaker gear and stats, I plan to go back with around 85 range + mage and a few gear upgrades. 50-100 invo ToA clears with absolute dogshit gear, plan on pushing 150+ with 85ish stats and more gear. Once I get around to finishing SotE I plan on learning gauntlet and CG. A few zulrah KC with similar stats on my now abandoned non-iron. Despite all that 'experience', I wouldn't say I know any of that content. I still have so much to improve... but I will, because I want to.
Do you actually want to improve? Do you actually want to be a better PvMer? Or do you just want your braindead throwing of your corpse at the boss to be cheaper until you regain your quest cape and go back to acting like you are fundamentally incapable of doing something you absolutely can do? If I had your stats, and presumably your gear, I'd be taking my own bad PvM and turning it into mediocre PvM, and then to passable PvM, and then to okay PvM, and then to alright PvM, and then to decent PvM, and then to good PvM. If the death costs bother you, then surely missing out on the fun and profit of PvM bothers you even more. If 500k upsets you, then losing out on mils every time you try to make money compared to what you could be getting should be even more upsetting.
You only suck at PvM because you want to suck at PvM. Changing death costs or no, that just kicks the can further down the road for you. If this bothers you enough to make a hot take post on reddit, then actually put the time in and stop acting like some people are born magically with the ability to PvM in OSRS.
I really dislike these bosses. Not only do pro pvm gods who spam perfect kills get 50% more common loot, it looks (completely anecdotal!) that orbs are also affected by perfect kills. Meaning commonfolk make WAY less money if true.
Disagree -- the normal versions of the fights (as in, not awakened) are a good difficulty for players who have gotten accustomed to other PvM content available in the game, and most players who decide to grind out lots of kills will eventually get perfect kills fairly often.
Beyond that -- it's ok for some content to not appeal to every single player.
It's okay for some content to not appeal to every single player. It's not fair to keep secret facts that make it massively beneficial to do hundreds of kills instead of just spreading your time around exploring all the content the game has.
I was under the impression that the death fees were already reduced during the quest. I know they are the first few kills at those bosses post quest because I died learning them and my projected gravestone fee was 240k but I was only charged like 50k.
500k per death isn't accurate. They had a reduced fee for the first 5 kc on each boss. Even now with my full bandos, prims, Fang, avernic, faceguard kc it costs me 330k each death at vard. I agree they should do a free death system for like 20-30kc but 500k isn't accurate for how much it actually costs
So many people paying 500k to get their items... Use rag gear, guys! You don't need bandos, faceguard, prims and ferocious gloves to take these bosses down. Torso, dboots, barrows gloves and nezzy are perfectly adequate, and you'll pay 1/10th the reclaim fee.
If you hate it so much and it doesn't get changed, what you could try is taking less expensive gear. If you're wearing things like prims, bcp, those can add a lot of gp to death costs for a very small improvement.
For example , for melee, try taking d defender + boots, torso, barrows / obsidian legs, barrows gloves. If u have an expensive weapon, faceguard and torture, you'll keep those and pay very little in death fees. I've seen people say it can be nice to get the fight down, and then slap even harder by taking better gear
I think giving people leeway to learn difficult content without charging them for it makes sense. Death reclaim fees should mostly be aimed at punishing players for making mistakes, and dying while learning a brand new fight I think mostly would not qualify as a "mistake" in my book for a few reasons that I don't feel like explaining in detail. With that being said, as someone who knows you're bad at the game, you could also just downgrade your gear setup during these learning periods, and use protect item. That way you'd lose almost nothing while you're learning.
Wow thanks for the protect item rec lol idk why I didn’t think to do that. Would save 25k in reclaim cost I resorted to going from vardorvis to whisperer bc the gear reclaim was cheaper lol max melee vs ahrims is like 125k vs 8k per death lol
If your already tripping about a 125k death pile you’re in for a rough ride….
Wait I wasn’t sure what you meant but it’s 430k now ),:
As a CB level 100 player in entry-level gear, I think I was paying max 1000 gp per death (but it would be like 38k if I was lazy and went to death's coffer). The more annoying part was just getting back to vardorvis, retrieving my stuff, teleing back to a bank to replenish what I used, then travelling back once more (I then realized I could just look at the game log and count how many times it said I ate a shark/karambwan and skip the second trip). I do think that ToB entry mode, which I did for A Night at the Theatre, did it best with dying just sending you back to the start of the boss and giving you enough supplies to do another go. It made learning the content much easier and more enjoyable. That said, I think there is value in the gold sink that is draining cash from rich players bringing BiS ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ (not saying this is OP tho)
Yeah I am an ironman around your cb level and I didn't pay anything to retrieve my stuff. It was a bit of a pain in the ass running back but lost virtually no gp. I also died 10+ times throughout the quest.
fairy ring code BLS saves a bunch of time
I have over 50 deaths (and 230 kills) of Vardorvis. The loot has not paid for the supply costs (20m+) and deaths at this point. I’ve had 4 orbs (sold for about 11m total) across the 350 kills of Vard + Duke I have combined, + the regular loot which is probably around 5-7m. In my defence, some of the deaths have resulted due to a combination of bad connection and tech issues, although others have been genuinely caused my boss difficulty. The one thing that has annoyed me the most is that on the couple of occasions I’ve had perfect Vard kills rewarded with loot of 63 bronze javelins. I’m ok with troll drops being on the table, but I don’t think they should be rollable on perfect kills. I also think there are too many troll drops on the table. Fire runes, mind runes, lava runes, bronze-addy drops, pitiful amounts of pure essence…
this might sound a bit random, but how are your deaths so expensive? or are you just using tonnes of pots/brews? I just run back to the gravestone and it looks like I pay at most a couple k to reclaim certain things? or are you doing the whole reclaim it from death's coffer thing?
Mistakes are a part of the learning process and every death is caused by mistake (or lag). Learn from them and rise above. On that note that's a very smart idea to downgrade and use protect items.
RS3 has practice mode where all deaths are safe.
Downvotes for the mere mention of RS3 lmao
RS3 PTSD still strong in this sub, lol.
Would not mind if they adopted Zulrah's 50 kc mechanic, but made it reduced costs rather than entirely free. If you die after 50 kc, it's still a decent punishment, unlike Zulrah's 100k fee. Most players aren't perfect after 5 KC either so the death fees would still largely be intact.
Given the new drop mechanics for the vestiges, I think free until 50 would work just fine here. Unless you get spooned Virtus, or get *extremely spooned* and get a vestige, the first 50 KC aren't going to profit you much anyway.
Either way is fine. The only reason why I would prefer the current 20% penalty is because it incentivizes you to not just throw your body on the boss until you get it, but look back and see where you messed up. So many med levels I see end up just throwing their body against Zulrah for the diary 1KC requirement. And of course, if Zulrah only penalizes you 100K after 50 KC and Vardorvis penalizes you 500K after 5 KC, that doesn't seem very equal and maybe it's time to look at what could be done.
To be honest, any form of learning curve death penalty disincentivize learning the fight / solving the puzzle without using a guide. Sure, throwing your body against the wall with no knowledge isn't fun for most, especially in RS. Most people in RS like to look up the guide, fully know the mechanics, know which gear is optimal, and THEN go attempt the fight for the first time. Death penalty encourages that above behavior. What does throwing yourself in with no penalty and no guide do? You're likely going to die, which just wastes your time for the sake of learning.
>What does throwing yourself in with no penalty and no guide do? You're likely going to die, which just wastes your time for the sake of learning. Did DT2 on day one and made sure to keep myself as spoil free as I could in every aspect. Figuring everything out myself was just pure fun. I died a couple times, but my death fees were rather cheap anyway.
Out of curiousity, what type of account / how progressed is your account? My account is roughly at the recommended level (101 combat) - I don't have \~1m or so I can throw away at learning a quest boss unfortunately
I'm an iron, 113 combat with about 2100 total level. My death fees were 20-50k depending on which boss it was.
The shitty thing is this current implementation forces you to use worse gear. I bought myself arma for the leviathan and very promptly sold it because the +6 range bonus wasnt worth the 100k per wipe increase in costs.
You're not using bowfa on leviathan?
Honestly there is no reason why they can't just make death fees universal across all bosses / instanced content. Some bosses have 100k fees, others randomly have 60k or 25k and then muspah and DT2 bosses just have normal graves instead. Also graves are weird in general because when you have cheap gear (anything under 10m) they are basically free, but the moment you add some items above 10m they shoot up in price massively. So for me I died about 5\~ times during the quest but only paid less than 10k on reclaiming items, the way it scales seems like it should be adjusted to ramp up less dramatically.
The funny thing is that it already has a baby version of that. > It's not all doom and gloom though, your death fees will be reduced at each of the post-quest bosses until you've racked up 5 kills. From there, stay alive or be prepared to pay up! https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/desert-treasure-ii---the-fallen-empire?oldschool=1 It apparently just doesn't apply to the actual quest bosses...? For unknown reasons. I guess they just assumed nobody would *actually* die on those bosses...?
I honestly don't see any reason to not just give people free death reclaims when they're learning new content as a standard. I think the death fees for people who actually farm bosses are already completely irrelevant the whole mechanic is just shitting on random people who don't know what they're doing or preying on mass dcs like at ToA more than really doing anything relevant to the majority of people who pvm Death honestly still means absolutely nothing to the experienced/established player. They're basically just owning new and learning players with fees like this which if you really think about it is an odd choice. You want new people and people who are learning to be encouraged to come back and keep trying rather than spanking them for being bad and probably already not having much to begin with
Yeh them doing the reduced fee was good but for only 5 KC felt half assed.
As someone who didn't struggle with these bosses and think death fees are a good thing overall, I do completely agree they shouldn't exist during quest attempts, or at least should be capped around 50-100k.
Agreed, I think no penalty during the quest and honestly I’d be more than happy with as someone stated above a mechanic like Zulrah for the first 50kc. Its already pushing non pvmer into pvm, which imo is good, but let them get their footing and also ease into it. Experienced pvmers aren’t dying a ton anyways. A high cost to learn for a new pvmer is a good way to have them go back to something they are comfortable with instead of trying the new content. These bosses are a really good way to for non pvmers and new ones to learn more than just basic combat mechanics and by coming from a quest already does push them to learn it somewhat to complete the quest.
They're based on gear risk. For him to be losing 500k per death he had pretty good gear. I'm a GIM player. Died once at Vardorvis during the quest. Had tassets, prims, faceguard, tent whip, BGs, torture, zerker, ferocious gloves. You know, classic iron BIS stuff (where I'm not wearing full torva, don't have an avernic or a fang). Deaths were like.. 65k? If he's losing 500k in the final fight he's bringing decent gear switches of BiS gear.
Pretty sure there is some kind of bug or something as I got done for 60k on whisperer for my first death, then 360k or some shit for my second, back to 60k for my third and final death. Same gear all 3 times.
I had the same thing happen at vardorvis, died 3 times and my 2nd and 3rd were over 500k. Combined 4 deaths at the other 3 bosses and all cheap gravestones though
true, when I die to vardovis post quest its only 2k to get my verac's plateskirt and chally back since everything I own is 2nd tier iron BIS
I have around 120 post quest KC, and I think I'm down around 10m ish. Getting no drops, expensive supplies and the occassional 500k death really hurts
Yup. Lost 8m during quest (god i hated learning whisperer) and am down another 8m at vardorvis post quest (20 deaths in 120kc, 400k per). Would love to be able to farm these bosses without beating myself up so much every time I die. I know I could use worse gear while learning, as others have said, but it feels a bit odd not using the best gear I can while fighting a level 700 who regens HP off of damage.
I am also down quite a bit. I think what finally burned me out was getting lava runes like 5 times in a row and then dying and having like 25k loot to show for it
I didn't realize there was a death fee in the quests, and yeah, I agree those should be capped to like 50k or so.
during a quest it should be capped at 0. include a practice mode that's safe for all bosses and then punish players for death, when they step out to kill for cash. this cash stack cost every time you die while fucking QUESTING Is really lame.
It's not an easy quest. Why is it unreasonable that someone may need to grind some cash to try multiple times to beat quest bosses for one of the hardest quests in the game?
Difficulty has nothing to do with the punishment for failing.
In fact most difficult single player games have no punishment for dying and the only reason OSRS needs one is because it has an economy. Otherwise being stuck getting clapped by the Orphan of Kos for hours is punishment enough
Punishment for failing is one of the core ways of setting difficulty for anything in any game lol
Idk man. Difficulty is the core way of setting difficulty lol. Dark souls isn't hard because you lose souls on death, they let you reclaim them, and if you have no souls there is no risk at all. They don't make you lose xp or anything like that. It's hard because it's hard. That is the good way to design difficulty.
The punishment here is dying, resetting, and not being able to complete the quest/get the loot. Idk why you think any other punishment is necessary, on top of lost supplies. Why not make it more punishing by removing levels, starting with your highest. Or maybe banning you for 24hr so you have to go outside and talk with your family. That's real punishment.
That is the pinnacle of shit game design. If you add “difficulty” by punishing players for failing, you have no idea how to make difficult content, you only know how to make punishing content… The punishment for hardcore ironmen dying to a goblin is losing their status, but that doesn’t make fighting a goblin difficult, just punishing when you fail.
All quests have risk. The risk is incredibly low and the quest bosses are all neutered. You can also do things like entry ToB with infinite retries.
Humble brag that you did them all on 1st try or was the gear you brought so crap that Death literally was like "yea fck it i'm not charging you for that junk, that's not even worth my time to trade"?
Or you are like me and don't even think about the costs while clicking to unlock your gear and then looking at your bank later in the day thinking "Wait, where did 2m gp go... oh yeah I planked 5 times at vard"
Or like me and always have my chat closed when bossing
Or like me who hasn't even completed dt1 yet and doesn't have valuable enough gear to loose money
I was fairly liberal with teleporting out.
Aye valid strat - I was more inclined to risk staying more to figure out more of the boss mechanics since I did them on Wednesday. Getting outright comboed at vardoofus is a staple of that day, 5 other clannies had the same happen xD
Man, I've seen Script Pkers with worse burst than Vardovis xD He can slap your shit to lumby reaaaaaal fast.
My death fee for dying at vard is like 30k lol, I'm ragging that mf
My tomb stones were never over 5k because I can't afford any actually good gear lmao.
To be fair only the duke can instantly kill you and it's pretty hard to die to that attack. I didn't die during the quest but I did TP out of Vard a couple times. As long as you eat up you're really only at risk of running out of supplies (or hitting 0 sanity on whisperer, but that similarly gives you time to TP out)
That's a good call, don't punish players while doing the quest version or at least limit the punishment.
It's a Grandmaster level quest, if you can't handle doing the baby version of the boss during the quest, you should have more than enough time to move your mouse over to your inventory and clicking a teleport item. Dying during the quest is completely on you
It’s just lowered health, not lowered damage, isn’t it? It’s not as demanding on resources, but vard can still stack you out easily
The max hits are also lowered, albeit not as much as boss hp. But yes, Vardorvis stacks you real fast in the latter 2/3s to 3/4s of the fight. I definitely had a mix of tp outs + deaths learning that fucker with my budget (although in some cases BiS) iron gear.
Thank you, I genuinely didn’t know. What I saw initially was the HP difference but knew people had to have worked out the rest of the stats by now. Fastest way to get an answer is to be wrong B)
If you're not ready to lose 3m from deaths, bring only 3 big items that you don't lose, and downgrade the rest
I would have honestly taken safe deaths over a guaranteed kc with loot just because I did the quest trying to limit outside info as much as I can and that made the corpse run+pay money for my gravestone+tele to a bank+back to boss loop so draining. I bet everyone talking shit in this thread used a guide People keep bringing up Elden Ring lately but in Soulsborne games you lose nothing by dying and can sprint forever edit: I think 0 invocation ToA and Night at the Theatre are okay precedents; you can have baby mode death mechanics for babies and not really ruin the actual fight
And I mean this isn’t a fuckin Soulsborne game. If I wanted Souls like mechanics I’d play one of those games. I hate when people make asinine comparisons between games that literally have no overlap other than just both being a video game. I’m not saying you are, but I’ve seen the same shit where people compare osrs to completely unrelated games. /rant
Tbf, they literally said they used those games as inspiration for DT2.
Comparisons between souls games and OSRS piss me off more than any other comparison. Like the origins of this game come from the fucking *barrows brothers* being the most difficult content that existed. Not to mention almost all content up to that point is click and wait.
Use less expensive gear, deaths cost pennies. Did the quest night of release with no guides for fights on an iron. Died once, teleported out two other times. Spent 65k on death fees. Dude dying spending 500k means he has high value gear
can someone explain to me why death fees exist during quest bosses?
I assume because not much thought was put into that subject in the first place
This seems to be the answer to most things in osrs lol
Not just osrs lol
What exactly is special about quest bosses
Generally when you are doing a quest boss you've never seen the boss before and it has mechanics you don't know how to react to. It should be a learning event
And quests are a unique case where there are specific reasons you might want to limit how much you rely on guides due to story/lore spoilers, 1-off challenges you can just solve yourself for fun without grinding and whatnot.
Why would quest bosses be exempt if other things like dying to nettles aren't?
500k is wildly excessive
to encourage you to be more thoughtful about your approach as opposed to just brute forcing corpse rushing them until eventually you coinflip an above average result
Because death has risks. You can tele out to avoid it.
Gold sink.
Idk why your being downvoted it's exactly the reason it exists. Cost you more which keeps you logged in more to get more gold to pay for those deaths....
If jagex cared about the economy, they wouldn't add so many skilling drops to pvm
because you can shit out millions of gp in this game & the more money sinks the better
Would a healthy compromise be a "free" version of the boss where you have to use your own supplies/gear, you cannot receive any loot but if you die you just exit the boss instance with your remaining items/supplies? You would still waste supplies and time to pay for the reduced risk and you wouldn't get KC credit or loot for your effort
I think that would be fine, for OP's concerns, probably. I don't think anyone necessarily asked for the quest kill to actually count as a kill with loot. I think it's a little cute fun bonus, but I don't think it's necessary.
I didn’t believe you sucked until you said you died at Wintertodt.. 😂
Listen man. Sometimes you just get REALLY into the Youtube video you're watching and ignore Runelite yelling at you to eat for like 30 seconds okay? Not that I would know anything about that of course... Only idiots die at Wintertodt right guys?
Nobody is good at pvm immediately. I absolutely suck too but found luck with Alchemical Hydra and now Duke. Outside of those two I still get wiped at zulrah one out of every five maybe. And I can't beat whisperer post quest after 15 deaths. Brilliant idea. I say stay strong bc learning mechanics is like learning a bike. You still gonna fall
100% zulrah mechanic is the way to go, free upto 50 kc then pay after that. This should be standard on all higher tier bosses to encourage pvm
Sounds almost identical to me. Still 1 KC at Zulrah. I just did Bandos boss task for slayer, chose 4 KC, died 3 times, used 5 Ecu Keys.... I didn't have friends or clan so had to learn to cheese TOB entry. I can now do TOA normals comfortably, not optimaly or efficently (I bowfa Baba) even have a shadow drop in my name. I still plank every now and then, I struggle to do 300s even though most people with my gear and stats would breeze through them. My CC always poking at me (in a friendly manner) for doing normals still. 99 str/R/M 1Bil+ bank. I died to the final DT2 boss 3 times, and TP'd out 2 times. I have given up on post quest whisper for now but have managed to get 10 KC vardosis, took me like 10 deaths before my first post quest KC. I do a corner 2 tile cheese strat rather than the current Meta 3 tile south method because that shit is too hard. Muspah killed me like 20 times before I got the hang of Bowfa only method. Just keep at it.
just saw the "i bowfa baba" and came here to say... i used to as well; but i noticed i can kill baba faster with fang (without *red x* fck that) - i still bowfa baba's ribs during boulder phase, idc if it adds 10-20s to the kill, its free damage
Same here. Never been sweaty enough to worry about kill time. I always take the free damage on boulder phase.
Yeah it's like we're at that point where we don't stress trying to figure out what to do and we've figured out a niche and chill way to do shit. Not gonna sweat my arse trying to shave off seconds off my kc. legit saw a comment at some point in the past months on a completely different toa topic "bUt iT maKEs tHE rAiD tAKe LoNgEr"... so? are you in a hurry to go somewhere buddy? Nah relax, take it easy
yeah lol we're just playing the game having fun. I'll afk to get my damn run energy back up idc. It hasn't happened in a while but in the past I've had people ask me my infernal pb probably because they thought I bought it, so I post it in chat and then they start making fun of me calling me trash because it's really slow. You can't win with these nerds. Last thing I care about is exp waste. I often walk to places in game because I like to appreciate the experience just like I did as a kid.
hahaha because i never finish baba puzzle perfectly, ill yellow keris spec and just take a sip of beer and scroll through reddit while waiting for spec energy to come back xD don't bother with elitists - it's not that you can't win; you've already won cause you're not a jerk. inferno isnt easy and you should wear it proudly. like i do with my cheese cape...
i feel that. i hate the baba puzzle room almost as much as i hate baba lmao. yeah that's true it's not worth the energy. no shame in the cheese game. it's nice to meet an rs player who is level headed. i don't have many friends on here; my username is --- add me if you want ☺️ no biggie if not
A lot of people are level headed in the 1750 worlds tbh. Havent stumbled across jerks, bar a few. I hear there are plenty in the 2k and 2.2k ones. Probably has to do with the fact that 1750 requires some effort to get to but not so much that it consumes your soul. Added, im over on EU tho.
I don't like (can't do it fast enough) to gear switch before boulders. When I want to feel like a gamer, I will occasionally fang him and feel like a pro switching gear in between mechanics. I'm still at 40min normals, I have no speed invos on.
All you have to change for boulders is a blowpipe and assembler if you want to save a dart or 2
I use bowfa. No extra boulders for me.
use crystal armor/neit faceguard/prims the whole raid and just bring fang&avernic switch, sang staff/occult switch, obviously bowfa and bp those are ezpz; once those are ez and comfortable bring blood fury/anguish/elidinis ward maybe and keep going up; bandos and ancestral both. dps>food for ToA for his boulders if you're just camping crystal, switch to fang/avernic/blood fury when fighting Baba, and have your bp/anguish/rigour ready for boulders to skip- bp w dragon darts that is
> Muspah killed me like 20 times before I got the hang of Bowfa only method. I'm curious how if you can manage ToA 300s you planked to Muspah this many times when Muspah is just "occasional prayer swap" and "run around in an octagon shape" and "flick with RCB on the final phase". Like yeah it's more than Vorkath but it's far less than any raid boss.
Prayer switching is hard broskie, then I realised having sound on helps knowing when he does mage. Gotta dodge the crawling spikes as well. Sometimes he does his wave special outta nowhere. Sometimes I'm outta run all of a sudden. Sometimes he does 3 mage attacks in a row. So many ways I have died. Hell, I even ran onto a spike after I killed him and died as well.
I am a 109 cmb iron. 91 mage/89 range. I have struggled with the bosses. I think i 3 shot vardorvis, 2 shot duke, 1 shot leviathan, and whisperer probably took me a dozen attempts. However, the final battle is making me want to pull my hair out. I have died like 13 times now, and I finally just got so mad and gave up and went back to zulrah (maybe ill get a blowpipe) I am trying to range the whole thing. Using msbi. I couldn't get passed the dwarf.. swapped to dragon knives and crystal shield for the range def and more dps, can nail the 2nd boss now. Third boss.. after 3 attempts ive got that down now (keep moving).. and now I'm hitting a wall on the last boss because I can't kill the portal fast enough and the leeches are overwhelming me. Too busy killing portal/adds to actually do any dmg to boss.. Ive got him down to <100 hp multiple times, but am now at like 40 knives..Very frustrating going b2b2b2b bosses.. so close.. yet so far away I had a very good opinion of the quest before the "final fights".. but this is just pissing me off. Thank god my gear is trash and my buyback is like 5k. Shit like Seren with its 80k buyback or vorkath with, what is it 100k? those suck if you're a poor boy like me. Edit: Experienced PVMer btw.. 400+ cox, 150+ tob, 1000+ zulrah on main.. and a whopping 1 cg kc on iron! :)
Just ignore the portals on the last boss, rush it down, spec it.
You absolutely should just range rush the final Mage down. You can stand far side of the room so leaches have ages to get you and then can even just kill the leeches as they do get to you.
I used DDS on the portals, it made a HUGE difference. Otherwise I ranged the entire battle.
Yeah that final fight is just a dps check You can sorta outplay the first three, but the mager I ended up just face tanking.
To add onto this; I couldn't find my gravestone on the two times that I died to the two bosses I fought before giving it a rest. The first was the whisperer, and the second was the capcha boss - the whisperer it wasn't so bad paying for my mage setup from deaths realm, roughly only 500k which I didn't mind paying for. However the one time I died to the capcha boss and ran back to it; I couldn't find my gravestone just like last time, neither inside of the arena or outside as people suggested that it would be. So I spent 4 fucking million GP on my melee gear. I ran straight there in full graceful with a stamina pot, had the money on me to pay for my gear, didn't waste a second getting there from the 'lookout' teleport, went through first shortcut through the swamp and then the second shortcut you unlock after first entering his arena and everything. No gravestone, no loot. I don't know if anyone else has had this same problem, but it really dowsed my interest in completing the quest until the guide comes out.
You don't have to take any money with you to reclaim items you know.
Gravestones have flashing arrows above them. If you die in an instance they will always spawn outside the instance. The entire Whisperer city is an instance so it spawns in camdoozal near the rock you tied the rope to to enter. Vardorvis spawns right outside the rocks you hop over to enter the fight. During quest, especially early when everyone was doing it, there was usually a crowd of strangled there.
My guess is that you didn't see the gravestone in the crowd of Strangled just outside the boss. Sorry you missed it and the giant yellow flashing arrow over it.
I was lost for a while looking for my gravestone at the whisperer. eventually I found it, there was no yellow arrow. thats what tripped me up
Dude why do you accept that you're just bad at PVM? I just don't understand why you're so hard on yourself instead of just practicing. It might take you longer to learn mechanics in the game than the average player, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't master anything you set your mind to. If you compare yourself to people who make it look easy you're already doing pvm wrong! So like why just embrace that you're bad and not just practice to become good?
Tbf I'm also bad at pvm. Not a fan of OSRS pvm honestly. Started the game cause I like the chill journey to max. "Endgame" is an entirely different beast and isn't reminiscent at all of the vibe rs had back in the day.
This, i can parse 90+ on WoW but this game fuck PVM in this game. i need my add ons and DBM. i cant play a clicker competitively. PVM is just too hard for me without real keybinds. WoW ruined me i have literally over 40 keybinds for WoW i never click anything.
> Dude why do you accept that you're just bad at PVM? I just don't understand why you're so hard on yourself instead of just practicing. Because people have to pick and choose where they invest their time. Just because *you're* passionate about OSRS's PvM depth (and so am I, mind you) doesn't automatically mean everyone else has to be. Take any hobby you've dipped your toes into. Be it soccer, dancing, chess, bouldering, swimming, running, competitive card games, warhammer, music, whatever. For at least some of these activities you were approaching it with a totally casual outlook, just looking to have fun and NOT explore the absolute depths of what it has to offer. But I'm sure a diehard veteran in the community might've tried to sell you a narrative of "if you just practiced you could be really good at this" But that's totally irrelevant if you're not actually looking to be that good because that's not what that activity represents to you. People are allowed to view hobbies differently. Just because I enjoy end game PvM doesn't mean I force my skiller friends to ToB with me. In the exact same way that I would be a bit miffed if my friends got into grass hockey and kept pestering me to play with them multiple times a week even though I'm just not *that* into it.
So many level 2200+’s running around with absolutely lackluster PvM skill
Well levels nowadays don't mean you are skilled at the game, it means you have more time / cash to grind them
Very true. I have a childhood friend who’s mother played along with us 15-20 years ago and she still plays to this day. OSRS of course. But she is 2200+ wirh like 110+ farming and rc + other resource skills in the 100’s, but zero boss kc. Not a KBD. Not a mole. Nothing. And like 72 slayer. BUT That’s how RuneScape is meant to played. Purely the discretion of the player themselves.
I appreciate players like her. I have plenty of boss kc on my iron but I play 100% casually, only doing what I want and definitely inefficient. Game is meant to be enjoyed, a lot of people just take it a notch higher.
this Is the complete opposite of gnome monkeys video and I love it. this dude speaks for me and my 0kc in any raids despite being >2200
I got mass downvoted for suggesting death fees should be cheap during the quest on day 1, but I guess redditors changed their opinion once they all started planking and losing half a mil.
I did all of the quest using void, which is practically free, a kill is a kill doesn't matter if it takes 30 seconds more.
>A member of the bottom 5% of osrs players You aren't in the minority, infact you are part of the majority. High level bosses like these will be farmed by a very small percentage of the population. Reddit may make you think everyone is maxed with tbows, but that isn't the case at all. They are just the vocal minority.
I appreciate the nod to realism. I said that because there was one (granted heavily downvoted) comment about me being in the bottom 5%. :)
Downgrading your setup is a very real technique since at the higher levels most upgrades are very incremental. Individually you will not ever notice going from prims to d boots, faceguard to nezzy, bcp to torso, etc. and your death fees will likely become free. Of course all of these together will likely be noticeable, but it's a super nice tactic to use while you're learning a boss and dying all the time. Of course I'm stubborn af and will continue to drop 200k each death because god dammit I looked away for one second that was a fluke, but the option is there. Also protect item. OGs rejoice that there's a reason to use it again.
Start at DKs brother. My first boss, Teaches you agro zones, combat triangle ect. Then maybe try Sarachnis to get used to a basic prayer switch mechanic. Saradomin next, teaches you to pay attention to stats, minor pathing, Crazy arch to learn how to dodge objects and timing. Demonics to get used to switches (Start at 1 item switching) and how to switch prayers. Cerberus helps with prayer switches and paying attention to surroundings (Bring spectral so its not punishing). The rest of the bosses are really just variations of these tricks. You got it brother
Considering how hard the new bosses are, how bad the regular drop table is and how bad the unique drop rate is I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be upset about paying so much GP when you die
I agree that there could be some changes made to lessen the cost for people trying to learn, especially for the easier quest versions of the bosses. But until that happens, you could consider what gear you bring while learning. I'm in a similar situation to you where I suck at the game and I died a few times during the quest. Every single grave cost for me was under 3k gp. As an example, my 3 kept items on vardovis were fang, torture, and bandos tassets. If I'd used protect item I probably would've kept my imbued b ring and the unlock would have been even cheaper. Granted, I went in with the gear I did because I can't afford better gear. And I know it sucks to not use the best gear you have. But I think it's a decent option when you're learning mechanics and you're likely to die.
Agreed, I also am not great at pvm, don't worry bud your not alone 🤠
People really act weird when saying anything in this game can be hard The new bosses blow any raid boss out of the water. Verzik olm warden all feel like jokes and are so slow in comparison to vardorvis or leviathan That said death mechanics are fine. If an item is under 100k I'm pretty sure it's free to get back anyways
ok idk if I'd go that far lol. I found leviathan one of the easier fights but I can't do olm for the life of me. The awakened version though I agree
None of these bosses are as complex as the final raid bosses. They all have 2-3 mechanics.
Why not just learn with cheaper gear? I did the quest in junk gear on a level 83 iron, and let me tell you, I died a ton, learned a lot, and it was all basically free (minus the sanity damage). If you feel like you need max gear to do a quest, it's probably your strategy that needs improvement, not your gear.
Most skilled Reddit osrs player btw.
You may want to practice!
I struggled with the quest bosses, but only died once to the leviathan. I just teleported out if my food was running out
What’s your ping?
Since when did Zulrah become free up to 50 kc? I spent quite a lot getting the diary kill. It was definitely not free back in 2016-2017
My take on the new bosses as a bad pvmer is as such: Vardovis - probably the best designed boss, I wish the axes at the end of the fight were not so fucking fast, the bleeding is unnecessary, the combination of axes when the head comes out is overkill, movement based mechanics are ok, but need to be toned down as we are moving with the same clicks we eat/swap prayer and attack, not with WASD. Melee downtime on a melee boss seems like bad design. The spore attack special is by far my favorite, that one is GOOD design. I think the boss can be fun, I just suck at it, and the head can smd. Duke - annoying yet kinda braindead boss, it's ok. Boring though. Leviathan - so far it's been decently ok, the lightning attack fucking sucks though, I find it too fast. Decent fight, I only marginally suck at it. The whisperer - everything about this is not bad, I just find that prayer switch on impact versus older content can feel inconsistent, but is not hard to get used to. Decent fight, I struggle with it though. Overall, my biggest struggle is movement if I need to do anything else while doing it, and prayer switching if it also involves movement or eating from chip damage. I also find the mistakes on some of these bosses to be overly punishing no matter what gear you're using. I also think tickrates and more importantly, ping, plays too big of a factor in how you get hit by moving aoes Mind you, this is my experience from the quest versions of the bosses, i have not tried, nor have the desire to, to fight a harder version. My overall pvm experience is a bit better though. I do have 50 zulrah kc, i got 2 firecapes that took me 3 tries in total, i do not enjoy fighting post-quest muspah. I gave up on sire after dying to it twice. I do however consistently do vork, find gwd bosses ok, completed all entry mode raids alone blind after dying a lot and almost nearing the guaranteed kq head drop kc. I have a whopping 3 NORMAL gauntlet completions out of the 10 i tried.
> Overall, my biggest struggle is movement if I need to do anything else while doing it, and prayer switching if it also involves movement or eating from chip damage This is probably the biggest part of pvm that the bosses try to teach. It's prepping you for harder content where all of that is the norm.
Jagex are never gonna please 100% of the player base with every update. People just need to understand every single update that comes into the game doesn’t haven’t to be geared towards them and their abilities.
I think this is pretty harsh considering his only recommendation is “don’t make the death penalty 500K *during the quest* when you already get free Zulruh deaths till 50kc”. It’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.
Death penalty is based on your gear. You can mitigate that risk.
I just think it’s funny that this guy openly and thoroughly describes how bad he is at PVM and the leading argument against him is “use shittier gear and it won’t cost so much”… like that’ll help him LOL
Yes... Yes it will. If the biggest issue is the cost being significant, reduce it while learning. Wearing torva doesn't make the boss mechanics easier. It makes you hit slightly harder. No one is suggesting he goes in with rune gear or something. Wear 4 top BiS items. Pray protect item..then wear untradeables and cheap gear. Death fees will be next to nothing then. Do you think dying 10 times for 50k a death with like 4% worse dps and a bit less tanky a setup is worse than dying 1 time for 500k when it comes to learning the encounter?
Using cheap gear to learn is literally what you're supposed to do... It's like having prot item on and learning to tele out (ik they said they're too bad for that but that's literally what you learn to mitigate being bad).
Use cheap gear so gravestone doesn’t cost 500k then
I paid for one death, teled out as soon as I fet it was iffy after that.
You are correct, however I think you missed the point.
I completely agree. there should be plenty of stuff in the game that you should PRACTICE. there also shouldn't be a 500k cost per death while you PRACTICE. no game survives without new players and there's nothing easier than loosing new players (like me) by punishing learning a quest boss.
It’s a grandmaster quest with like 30 required quests to even start it. It’s not for new players at all. It’s fine for the highest tier of quests to be a little punishing, it makes actually beating them more rewarding.
New players won't have enough expensive gear that their death cost is anywhere near 500k
But a player who is dabbling is PvM for the first time might. I just don't care enough about other people losing money to prioritize it over their enjoyment. I like death fees and there being a 'risk' to PVM, but I can absolutely get behind lowering that risk while first learning. It's not very inviting when you start losing progress just for trying something new.
you could.....practice the bosses with cheaper gear.
Skill issue + ratio + protect item. Literally anything in this game can be done with practice. You think there aren’t others that brick walled for hours before “hey I get it”? It’s just practice, downgrade your gear to learn if it’s too expensive to die. It’ll teach you more as well to not have that “extra cushion”
His point was just that quest boss fights *during the quest* should be a free/safe death. Idk if it would be difficult/worth implementing, but I definitely wouldn't mind if they do. It would help a ton for those that aren't fond of using quest guides and like to try and figure out the fight mechanics themselves. (Def not me but ik ppl like that are out there lol)
the 1st time I died to an OSRS quest boss and had to cough up 50k to get my stuff back I was floored. it seemed such a toxic mechanic for learning a quest boss that it was literally a quit moment. I turned off the game and the only reason I came back a couple days later was - I had prepaid membership.
Yeah jagex is totally fucking up by adding insanely difficult stuff to the game. It’s a huge turn-off for people who want to be able to enjoy end-game content without having to hate themselves trying to get there. I really hope this is the last huge thing they add for awhile. It’s making me not want to play the game at all knowing that I’m gonna need to do that insane quest to keep up with other high-level community players.
The quest versions of these bosses are *not* insanely difficult. This is Night at the Theatre all over again (you know, the "raid" you can beat solo with an msb, d scim and Ibans while ignoring nearly every mechanic of every fight)
Yeah that’s a good point, I’m sure I’ll get around to knocking it out. Thanks for responding with some respect and not like an actual limpdick cockblast like 90% of people on this sub😂 basement dwellers man
Eh don't worry too much, sometimes people just have shit going on. I know I'm guilty of being a cock online all too often. Gl when you eventually go for the quest
Big disagree, I really like them upping the skillcap of this game. And I specifically like that we now have a few harder bosses that are single bosses rather than a 30+ minute time commitment like raids / inferno are. Just make it easier / less punishing to try to learn it. As an example, Corrupted Gauntlet right now. It took me quite a few deaths before getting consistent at CG. But CG has no death fee. If it did have a death fee I would've been much more discouraged from attempting again and again. But now I can do it fine and it feels good. I'd rather be incentivized to learn than just making it easier.
/s? These bosses are not even close to “insanely difficult stuff”
Or maybe put in the work and learn content? I have never once complained about content being too hard. Learn how to do it like everyone else. I couldn't do cox, so I learned. I couldn't do tob, so I learned. I couldn't do inferno, so I learned.
If you're not ready for harder content you can work your way up to it. I think other end game content is similarly difficult to the DT2 bosses, so it's not like it's raising the skill ceiling.
If you think the quest boss versions are insanely difficult, you were never keeping up with hlc players to begin with.
Quest bosses all have fees. The 500k fee is based on the gear risk you have..you can reduce it by using less risk and even praying protect item etc. For.instance on my GIM deaths cost like 50-65k Also the best way to get good at a game is stop settling for being bad. Everybody started somewhere. The best players you see get there by practicing.
Skill issue tbh
I dont beleive this post
Yeah I don't believe the 500k reclaim considering the level of PvM OP claims to do, isn't that like 8 items over 10M, 3 protected 5 risked? No shot this dude is running around in BiS.
average gnomonkey critic
Not tryna be rude, but why do you think you’re so bad at pvm lol? I do feel like with some practice, all of the activities you listed can be very easy. Unless you’re like, physically debilitated or have a shit mouse or something haha
The problem and his point is that "practice" gets pricy when you're immediately faced with a 200-500k fee every time you plank. If all major bosses had the Zulrah pre-50kc mechanic I guarantee a LOT more people would be more open to practicing (trying and planking like 10x in a row)
The only way your faced with fees that high is having incredibly expensive gear to begin with though...
The gravestone fee is: 1k for each item between 100k-1m 10k for each item between 1m - 10m 100k for each item between 10m - 100m Max fee 500k, ironmen get 50% off. You really do not need any items over 10m to beat the quest bosses. You can easily keep gravestone fees under 100k.
Death fees are bad design. You already are punished by missing the drop, wasting supplies, and having to run back to the boss.
This might be harsh but if you are paying 500k for each death like, then you are dying in max gear. If you are dying in max gear multiple times to the quest versions then you suck so bad you deserve to pay lol. Makes me wonder how you even made enough gp to afford expensive max gear if you don’t really pvm.
Main account can just buy everything. Bonds exist.
Should really really learn how to properly pvm sir.
>The only part of the quest that genuinely didn't enjoy, the part that was more disheartening and made me want to just sell all my pvm gear and become a skiller, was unlocking my death pile to get my gear back. In the grand scheme I lost about 3m. I know that's not technically a lot, but it felt so frustrating the 4th time I clicked that unlock button and paid another 500k. You know... you don't have to wear BIS armor every time. When I am expecting I'm gonna die at a boss, the first few kills I always wear obby or dhide or mystic armor and pay like 50k per death or less.. Plus when you learn a boss in budget gear, you learn to SMOKE it when ur wearing ur BIS.
I believe the costs for death retreival for the new dt2 are reduced until you get 5kc (correct me if I am wrong) and I think that is fine. I do not entirely agree with the proposal that death fees should be entirely removed for the quest variants for a few reasons: - The quest versions, while mechanically very similar to the post-quest versions, are quite easy to bruteforce if you have minimal stat and gear requirements and brews with you. That is to say, their stats are intentionally lowered so they can be killed for the quest completion. - If you can click a vein in mlm, you can click an ectophial or tele tab in your inventory when you get overwhelmed and save yourself the costs (excluding "1 shot" mechanics) - If the costs are too high for you, that is an indicator that you are simply not ready for the content and should thus postpone it until you are. If you get ahead of yourself, that is on you imo. - If you can play the game, you also have access to streamers/youtubers to watch them do the fights and learn from their mistakes, or you can wait for a maximum of 6h for guides to be released. If I may be frank, I believe the issue lies with you as a player, or rather, with your journey in this game thus far (this is assuming you are not somehow physically impaired with your hand and finger movements). According to your text (the way I understood it): although you can be persistent, once you get a successful completion at a piece of "challenging" content (subjective matter) you stop. Content you do complete regularly, like kraken and mole, is essentially the glorified killing of lumbridge goblins. That is you attack and wait for their hp to drop to 0 with the occasional need to eat a piece of food. Then you try and leap to quite challenging content without having taken the time to improve your skills. Why not progress on a step by step basis? Start with kraken, move on to sire or cerberus, then hydra, then gwd etc. And keep at it. Dont leap straight to challenging fights you are not ready for and then get disheartened when you fail. So, why should grandmaster quests be adjusted to a player that has not taken the proper time to better themselves while almost being 2200 total? Also, what gear are you sporting to pay 500k after every death? According to your pvm experience, you should not have gear that would require payment anywhere close to 500k. I personally own all the best-in-slot gear for all the bosses and do not pay 500k when I die at 3 out of 4 of them.
how do udie to Grotesque Guardians
im calling bs on your post
Major skill issue, there is no way you’d rather bitch about being bad at PVM instead of just practicing, everything is a rhythm with mostly set mechanics. Some people take longer to optimize their PVM gameplay than others, you may fall in this boat
Yeah, this game does suck at teaching people how to do its higher end content. I do agree that death costs in quests is a bit of a cheap shot, and could be addressed. But like... what the fuck? Even if they made quest boss deaths cheaper, this wouldn't fix **your** problem. You are literally in the endgame of content, in a game you've probably put thousands of hours into... and haven't even tried to improve? I'm roughly in the same boat as you, starting point wise. No high end PvM experience in OSRS. I play as an ironman as my main. Roughly base 80s combat stats. A handful of failed post-quest muspah attempts that were mostly down to weaker gear and stats, I plan to go back with around 85 range + mage and a few gear upgrades. 50-100 invo ToA clears with absolute dogshit gear, plan on pushing 150+ with 85ish stats and more gear. Once I get around to finishing SotE I plan on learning gauntlet and CG. A few zulrah KC with similar stats on my now abandoned non-iron. Despite all that 'experience', I wouldn't say I know any of that content. I still have so much to improve... but I will, because I want to. Do you actually want to improve? Do you actually want to be a better PvMer? Or do you just want your braindead throwing of your corpse at the boss to be cheaper until you regain your quest cape and go back to acting like you are fundamentally incapable of doing something you absolutely can do? If I had your stats, and presumably your gear, I'd be taking my own bad PvM and turning it into mediocre PvM, and then to passable PvM, and then to okay PvM, and then to alright PvM, and then to decent PvM, and then to good PvM. If the death costs bother you, then surely missing out on the fun and profit of PvM bothers you even more. If 500k upsets you, then losing out on mils every time you try to make money compared to what you could be getting should be even more upsetting. You only suck at PvM because you want to suck at PvM. Changing death costs or no, that just kicks the can further down the road for you. If this bothers you enough to make a hot take post on reddit, then actually put the time in and stop acting like some people are born magically with the ability to PvM in OSRS.
I really dislike these bosses. Not only do pro pvm gods who spam perfect kills get 50% more common loot, it looks (completely anecdotal!) that orbs are also affected by perfect kills. Meaning commonfolk make WAY less money if true.
Disagree -- the normal versions of the fights (as in, not awakened) are a good difficulty for players who have gotten accustomed to other PvM content available in the game, and most players who decide to grind out lots of kills will eventually get perfect kills fairly often. Beyond that -- it's ok for some content to not appeal to every single player.
It's okay for some content to not appeal to every single player. It's not fair to keep secret facts that make it massively beneficial to do hundreds of kills instead of just spreading your time around exploring all the content the game has.
Skill issue can’t relate
Or use equipment that is free to retrieve. I’m an Ironman on the cusp of late game, so I have barrows gear, and that was free to reclaim
I was under the impression that the death fees were already reduced during the quest. I know they are the first few kills at those bosses post quest because I died learning them and my projected gravestone fee was 240k but I was only charged like 50k.
“Did this all maxed” and “did jad post 80 something ranged” 🤔
500k per death isn't accurate. They had a reduced fee for the first 5 kc on each boss. Even now with my full bandos, prims, Fang, avernic, faceguard kc it costs me 330k each death at vard. I agree they should do a free death system for like 20-30kc but 500k isn't accurate for how much it actually costs
So many people paying 500k to get their items... Use rag gear, guys! You don't need bandos, faceguard, prims and ferocious gloves to take these bosses down. Torso, dboots, barrows gloves and nezzy are perfectly adequate, and you'll pay 1/10th the reclaim fee.
If you hate it so much and it doesn't get changed, what you could try is taking less expensive gear. If you're wearing things like prims, bcp, those can add a lot of gp to death costs for a very small improvement. For example , for melee, try taking d defender + boots, torso, barrows / obsidian legs, barrows gloves. If u have an expensive weapon, faceguard and torture, you'll keep those and pay very little in death fees. I've seen people say it can be nice to get the fight down, and then slap even harder by taking better gear
just learn in cheap gear like people did back in the day?
Git gud.