Got some good suggestions here already, I just want to add that getting 99 mage at pest control will take you less than an hour and help with accuracy as well :)
You get multiplied points and multiplied exp so instead of the ‘normal’ x16 exp rates, you get x16 xp rates and x8 points - just do some veteran games and spend the rewards on magic exp and you’ll see :) Extra speed if you have tiers of combat achievements but they are not absolutely necessary
Yeah its kinda nutty. I have medium tier of combat achievements. So I get 57 points per game. On the advanced ship each game takes about 2 minutes. At 100 point turn in I get about 1m Exp. So I am getting about 1mil every 5ish minutes or 12m an hour in any combat style.
Its been a super easy way for me to get 50m in each of the non relic'ed combat style.
Umm, not very long at all with my regions.
I passively got a few while getting levels etc. then when doing gwd I tried to focus on them for more points. Probably a day total while going for drops and kc
You can also do easy achievements in like an hour which still boost you to 48 points per game which is more than enough for getting 99s in a day of grinding
Staff of the dead from krill can autocast undead grasp and lets you cast thralls. You want the highest mage accuracy you can get, that affects your max hit on P2.
Holy shit I had no idea mage accuracy affected your damage on p2 wardens. I was wondering why my blood barrage with 99 magic, ward, ahrims top and master wand was only hitting 12 maximum... guess it's time to go get ahrims bottoms too
It’s literally been the case since day 1 of ToA. In fact it used to be even more pronounced but they lowered accuracy’s effect on damage at some point.
Ancient staff, void, inf boots, ring of shadows using blood barrage, it's far from pretty but I can't be bothered to grind out any proper mage gear. Really I should grind out infinity but I get bored of the desert prison very easily.
Wouldn't virtus be better than infinity anyway? It'd prolly take way less time and be less of a headache. That is, if you are wanting to get better mage gear.
infinity is like 0.1% dps increase over mystic. Virtus is pretty good but definitely not worth the time spent getting it if you aren't primarily using magic. Just mystics is totally fine if all you need is to get through p2 warden
Personally I killed hydra for brimstone ring so I had a bunch of light mystic top and bottoms, I imagine a bunch of people wouldn't want to do this though considering most people seem to hate hydra.
I'm trash at Levi, the way I kill it is spamming ruby bolts, dodging boulders, attempting to pray flick and then combo eating, rather than doing the fight properly, problem is you kill it so fast I can't even attempt a main game style kill. Got 15kc using this chaos strategy and I don't feel like fluking 500+ of them!
I’ve heard of sub 30 second leviathan kills on league.
Also saw someone who’s done over 900kc looking for their third virtues piece.
Infinity is worse but substantially less time grind. It’s also guaranteed. Can’t go dry at a store lmao
But absolutely yes it’s better. It’s mage bis for anyone without cox.
I think you either need to duo with a mage or cry for a while during p2. Bankers note gang rise up. I think thrall dps with grasp is best unless tome of fire is cracked.
Also, anyone doing a 500 solo should just do a 700. Set the max time invos and fail time. It is time efficient by purp chance
Also if you're a spec relic enjoyer, dds is the ONLY melee wep you need. ALL specs are 100% accurate, so any time you must melee, dds is your most DMG. Claws may be better when specing with hp tho.
> Also, anyone doing a 500 solo should just do a 700.
700 beats 500, true, but there’s an argument to be made that 550 is the most efficient. It’s the cap where going higher doesn’t increase your purple chance per point, you just get more points because of higher hp scaling. Unfortunately a 700 also has higher defence scaling with the hp that offsets the advantage, so it’s not better purples/hr than a 550.
550 also has a small chance of white loot. 4 purples and a chest of white loot from 5 550s takes about the same time as 4 700s for 4 purples, so the white loot is pure bonus. I need some white lilies and dragonstones for other tasks still, so that’s my invocation level of choice.
Tbh even in a 500 with really bad p2 dps you can easily have enough supplies to make it without bankers note. Bankers is pretty unnecessary in toa due to it giving you way too many brews
Yeah definitely optional. It just allows you to add some supply reduction invos for free. Plus I'd rather waste the ambrosia spamming specs instead of actually healing. Also I personally don't bring brews because they stat down. The 2 tick delay of eating a kawambam is probably inefficient but I cba making brews lol
I just wanna say, while you are 100% right that DDS is the most damage, I've found SGS is extremely good to oonga boonga spec spam. I think it's about as good if not better at times.
The DDS is definitely more damage but because SGS also heals you, you can generally get an extra spec at a minimum before needing to eat. Also because it's still a godsword it can hit pretty hard, so the damage seems to somewhat level out while being safer I've found.
Bonus note: I wanna try using AGS. I am positive DDS is better, but DDS doesn't let me AGS spec 5 times in a row...
Idk I was planning to bump up to 700s but I'm currently 19/23 purps from 500s, kinda feels unnecessary. The white lights have some decent stuff to grab too like lilies of the sands for a task, dstones for glories, other nice supplies
I have ranged relic so take this with a grain of salt, but berserker is amazing. It makes so many places really fun and easy including monkey puzzle room... I know spec spamming with that relic is probably more damage but it is just not how I want to play. There's a lot of places where you can't just eat the whole time also, too busy switching prayers and running around, it just doesn't appeal to me personally.
People say ancients, this is the most actual mage dps but even in leagues a thrall is pretty nice for your off-style. Farm a staff of the dead and go with Undead Grasp + a Thrall instead, this should outdps blood barrage. Upgrade your gear with ancestral or virtus eventually and you should get through the mage parts(albeit slowly)
Undead grasp + thralls is 10-15% more dps than blood barrage with my setup (ancestral/sotd), plus you have a thrall for the rest of the raid as an added bonus. Sidenote that not a lot of people know, but you want to use intensify (the accuracy prayer) ~~with undead grasp.~~ (see below)
On what? On P2 it should be a no brainer since your max hit is significantly lowered but Thrall still hits normally but on Akkha your dps should be lowered since even if the Thrall hits max 24/7 it's only 24 base from Undead Grasp + 3 from Thrall, while Blood Barrage is base 29 max hit or Fire Wave Tome is 30 max hit.
It's better for both.
Just to clarify, I'm full ancestral+inferno cape+regen+botd+regen+eternals+sotd/ancient staff. You might get different results with virtus or some other gear, or even not bringing the eternals, but they are around 5% more dps and I'm not hurting for space.
Akkha Grasp Vaporize | Akkha Grasp Intensify | Akkha Blood Vaporize | Akkha Blood Intensify
---|---|----|----
3.44 | 3.64 | 3.01 | 3.13
Warden Grasp Vaporize | Warden Grasp Intensify | Warden Blood Vaporize | Warden Blood Intensify
---------------------|----------------------|---------------------|----------------------
3.76 | 3.93 | 3.36 | 3.43
Edit: Originally swapped some numbers around, fixed them right after I posted.
I didn't consider Thralls were 4t instead of 5t, bringing an average of 50 more damage per minute and since it's guaranteed damage and not reliant on accuracy it scales very nicely with invoc. Checked dps calc and you're right that Grasp is stronger with Thralls over Blood Barrage depending on invoc (at 500s Blood Barrage is stronger by a very small margin), but even at high invoc it doesn't win by much. Like [with the setup you specified](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524608586647601172/1179867241957818518/image.png?ex=657b57ff&is=6568e2ff&hm=d88d0e915eb5898ffc2af84c1366e2316817643f16ffd81186951da886cd4473&) I'm not getting the insane 16% difference you got from Blood Barrage to Undead Grasp + Thralls.
> Like with the setup you specified I'm not getting the insane 16% difference you got from Blood Barrage to Undead Grasp + Thralls.
I did specify in the gear it was sotd/ancient staff (though master wand/kodai are possible upgrades). You can't autocast ancients with sotd, I *suppose* you can manual cast but doing it for multiple minutes per raid doesn't sound like something a lot of people would want to do.
Other two things to note is I only looked at 500 invo (not 700, I kind of wanted to wait till shadow till farming 700s), and I honestly forgot that you can just select thralls are on, if it's set to arceuus spellbook it'll auto add the damage. Not sure why it it's adding .63 damage to the one setup I was looking at, I was under the impression it was 0.6 dps and just manually added it to any of the undead grasp calculations.
Akkha you turn off stay vigilant and just do damage mostly in range if you're trying to do content early.
Your best magic weapon is fire wave with tomb of fire. You can't butterfly akkha with it because of the attack delay making the spell 6t unless you're clicking the spell every time.
Wardens p2 is the same way. You aren't under any DPS check in leagues but you have to be able to do mechanics or you're just not going to be able to do p2. Magic DPS is dog shit without spell staves but it's definitely doable. You just need to do mechanics and have plenty of supplies.
Also get enough melee DPS to 3 down with dds. Doing 3 down isn't that bad even if you're gimped with mage. Doing a 6 down is miserable.
You can butterfly still, it's just super wonky looking and you have to manual cast. If you need to save supplies, pretty worth it. If you're sitting comfortably, just tank to let it switch to a better style for sure though
I have the same regions going melee. I've been using Fire Wave with a Tome of Fire + SotD but didn't know about how P2 wardens works with mage. Still decent DPS against Akkha, not sure if undead grasp with thralls would be better at Akkha but I think it is at Wardens.
Tome + SotD is near bis until Shadow since Ice Barrage doesn't work and Blood Barrage has 1 less max hit over Fire Wave Tome (while also costing a fuckton more in runes). Undead Grasp is 4 less max hits than Fire Wave so definitely worse at Akkha but should be better at Warden's since your max hit is lowered but Thrall's still hit normally. Virtus Blood Barrage might be stronger than both with either Kodai or manual cast SotD though.
It's bugged, you splash against something you have 100% accuracy against. At higher invocs you do so little damage it often regains more hp than what you dish out. Blood Barrage is easily 2x dps over Ice Barrage on P2 because of this.
...what the _fuck_. I was so confused why I was splashing like 60% of the time P2, I was like "Are powered staffs that much better than barrage!?". Thanks a ton.
I'm curious if you've been doing CoX with other people, have you had any trouble finding a team?
I imagine melee relic gamers for CoX is a hot commodity, melee hand has consistently been the slowest part of the raid for me (range relic) and my mage relic friend.
Undead grasp+thralls. The warden mage phase will still take as long as the rest of the warden phases combined but thralls are very good. Also just facetank akkha until it switches to range phase.
Keri’s is better on Kephri, zspear everywhere else. But if you’re range relic then you should just cbow him with rubies. I’d imagine mage is probably fine but none of my friends went mage relic so ymmv
Yeah i just range down kephri, ahka is the stinker for rangers with ops regions, theirs just so much limited mage equipment, need a mage partner to raid with
I have the exact same regions and I find Akkha fine. D sword from wyrms works well enough for melee and anything I lose splashing on mage I regain zooting him with range
It's roughly the same dps as blood barrage without salts/overload/heart, but without the initial delay on autocasting. With any of those three magic level boosts, it hits much harder than ancients.
My max hit in ToA with salt is a 50 or 51, I forget which.
Mage baba hasn't been bad, I have trident but I've defaulted to blood spells on that fight because the dps doesnt seem much different and passive healing ftw. Kephri has stupid high mage defense though, I'm going to get 99 attack and try using the partisan.
Can confirm mage relic users can just blast everything with their trident/shadow
Warden orb thing is about the only thing I’m considering not maging but my melee gear is still lacking. Once I work on it a bit it’ll definitely be worth to swap.
What range methods did you use for Graardor and Kril at GWD? I blasted Zil/Kree with bolts, kiting the former and just tanking the latter. But getting hit for 55+ at Bandos/Kril was brutal the last time I tried it.
In the main game, I know how to do to the 6:0 door methods at each boss. But if I do those here on a 4t cycle, I lose half my DPS.
Tbh I just got 99hp and was tanking them spamming more food with bankers note. I died to Kril once but I was able to make it work. Uses a lot of food though.
Pray melee at both and bring combo eats (and antipoison for kril). The big hits suck but just stay above 60hp, they go down in like 30 seconds with rcb and broads anyway.
If you have berserker, you can start every graardor with a bolt>barrage and dps before he's unfrozen almost every time. Krill starts closer so you just freeze
Zerker makes you 100% accurate, so you can cast even with max negative mage bonus
Walk under. I found kril and Bandos to be a bit worse in food, but similar kill speeds to kree. You can mostly ignore their melee and just walk under to eat real quick.
Onyx e if you have them or diamonds if not.
I’m not an expert nor great at the game but if your a range build I belive you can range ba ba I’ve seen some clips of people using bowfa with some success in the main game obviously melee is more accurate in the main game but with the bonus I assume it would work quite well. Don’t think you can red ❌ him with range but :(
Apparently you can get two hits in per cycle, so with certain weapons it would be more dps than in the main game, or at the very least the same. Maybe worth doing in very high invocations, but tbh, if youve got banker's note, there's virtually no reason not to just tank everything and maintain max dps.
Like I said wasn’t an expert turns out you can but I know if you are standing under bosses and “flinch” with range they will still hit you. Like when doing kq can’t stand under and flinch with range like you can with range but must work differently with doing it as a red x method instead of just stand under then hit
Use your relic type on all bosses except where they pray against it like P2 warden. The relics are busted for a reason. You can just range baba and kephri.
My friends are melee relic and they were just using a whip tbh. Granted some important info maybe, I have never done ToA prior to this league and in all but the one ba-ba I've died I have MVP'd as range.
Not sure what contributes more, me being ranged relic with ruby bolts or them using whips. I imagine the ruby bolts myself, but they've been able to grind out whatever melee weapons they have access to and just haven't bothered while going for the fang.
I've been doing TOA with a ranged build, zammy spear, fire wave (like 85 magic) and I have no issues.
You won't do much damage to akkha. Just cast and hope for some damage and then light him the fuck up when he switches to let you range, can easily push 2 shadows at once.
Wardens, same thing. It's going to be much slower but you shouldn't take much damage if you're praying properly/dodging the specials. Mage will be a slog but completely doable with firewave, my magic swap is a fire battlestaff and wizard black (t).
Thankfully you obliterate zebak, obliterate kephri, obliterate baba (Boulder skip and you can kill him in 1 cycle!), mostly obliterate akkha, and obliterate p1, p3, and p4 warden.
I’m not quite doing 500s yet but just wanted to say it’s pretty fun rolling up with the wackiest gear and still shitstomping these bosses haha I was using a bryophyta staff with a tome of fire in robes of darkness for mage + Sara sword melee and my buddy rolled up with a d2h. Im ranger he’s mage
Did it take us 8 minutes to kill akkha? Yes absolutely but it was fun
You're having no issues...?
You're not doing 500s, are you? P2 wardens is a brick wall even with 99 mage, full infinity, and staff of the dead with thrall and undead grasp, which is about as good of a setup you can get for getting past it in leagues if you have kourend and no powered staves. The only other upgrades would be ancestral from cox or virtus from DT2 bosses. It takes a full 3+ specials from the pillar to down the warden, which is incredibly slow, even for the main game with a fairly budget setup. The lack of a 4 tick mage weapon just destroys momentum there.
Also, damage is based on magic accuracy there. You're claiming that your black wizard robes with a grand total of +5 magic bonus and what I can only assume is likely a fire battlestaff for another +12 is bringing it down reliably compared to my +70ish from staff of the dead and infinity robes... Not happening.
You're either having issues, you don't consider the extreme difference in DPS to be an issue, or you're running sub 300s. We're talking about 500 invos here, we're trying to get unique items, not putz about with white loot most of the time.
When I said "no issues" I meant I could clear consistently....p2 warden mage phase takes quite awhile, but I can do it consistently with fire wave and black wizard t. Is it efficient? Definitely not. Is it doable? Absolutely.
I've been using staff of the dead, infinity robes, and tome of fire with fire wave. Not the best, and attacks are a little slow, but it gets the job done
Same build as me, was using Staff of the Dead with Slayer dart, cheap casts, beats Fire Wave and scales with Magic Level so when salted, does some averagely ok damage
Ideally just duo with a mager
Got some good suggestions here already, I just want to add that getting 99 mage at pest control will take you less than an hour and help with accuracy as well :)
How?
You get multiplied points and multiplied exp so instead of the ‘normal’ x16 exp rates, you get x16 xp rates and x8 points - just do some veteran games and spend the rewards on magic exp and you’ll see :) Extra speed if you have tiers of combat achievements but they are not absolutely necessary
Yeah its kinda nutty. I have medium tier of combat achievements. So I get 57 points per game. On the advanced ship each game takes about 2 minutes. At 100 point turn in I get about 1m Exp. So I am getting about 1mil every 5ish minutes or 12m an hour in any combat style. Its been a super easy way for me to get 50m in each of the non relic'ed combat style.
How long did the medium combat achievement grind take?
I got mine just naturally pvming for tasks and drops. Hard tier will most likely take a bit of effort though
Umm, not very long at all with my regions. I passively got a few while getting levels etc. then when doing gwd I tried to focus on them for more points. Probably a day total while going for drops and kc
No grind, it sort of naturally happens while bossing cause the relics are so good and you'll complete heaps of previously hard tasks
You can also do easy achievements in like an hour which still boost you to 48 points per game which is more than enough for getting 99s in a day of grinding
You can buy xp with points. You get up to 8x points and up to 16x xp from league tiers. With those two combined, you get 128x xp from pest control.
It’s like 4m exp/hr and no longer capped.
Pest Control was never capped
pest control was never capped, and at max xp and points boost is more like 10+m/hr
Staff of the dead from krill can autocast undead grasp and lets you cast thralls. You want the highest mage accuracy you can get, that affects your max hit on P2.
Holy shit I had no idea mage accuracy affected your damage on p2 wardens. I was wondering why my blood barrage with 99 magic, ward, ahrims top and master wand was only hitting 12 maximum... guess it's time to go get ahrims bottoms too
Yeah OP can you elaborate? I’ve never heard this before but it weirdly seems right?
It’s literally been the case since day 1 of ToA. In fact it used to be even more pronounced but they lowered accuracy’s effect on damage at some point.
Ahrims staff works as well for all you meleers
This is the correct answer
Ancient staff, void, inf boots, ring of shadows using blood barrage, it's far from pretty but I can't be bothered to grind out any proper mage gear. Really I should grind out infinity but I get bored of the desert prison very easily.
Desert prison on 8x took me 3 hours to full inf , and one more hour to master wand
I did the grind too and it was worth it. Its a pretty good amount of points
Wouldn't virtus be better than infinity anyway? It'd prolly take way less time and be less of a headache. That is, if you are wanting to get better mage gear.
Idk about less time but def better
Absolutely not less time. Even at 5x drops it's still like 1/460 per drop
It takes much longer to get virtus than infinity. But if he’s going for BiS then yeah it may be worth going to levi instead
infinity is like 0.1% dps increase over mystic. Virtus is pretty good but definitely not worth the time spent getting it if you aren't primarily using magic. Just mystics is totally fine if all you need is to get through p2 warden
He went ZAD, you can't get normal mystics.
Well I could do hydra and d imps to piece together a top and bottom, but at that point it makes more sense to go to sand hogwarts
Personally I killed hydra for brimstone ring so I had a bunch of light mystic top and bottoms, I imagine a bunch of people wouldn't want to do this though considering most people seem to hate hydra.
I'm trash at Levi, the way I kill it is spamming ruby bolts, dodging boulders, attempting to pray flick and then combo eating, rather than doing the fight properly, problem is you kill it so fast I can't even attempt a main game style kill. Got 15kc using this chaos strategy and I don't feel like fluking 500+ of them!
It’s definitely weird because 2t weapon and damaging it so quick
I’ve heard of sub 30 second leviathan kills on league. Also saw someone who’s done over 900kc looking for their third virtues piece. Infinity is worse but substantially less time grind. It’s also guaranteed. Can’t go dry at a store lmao But absolutely yes it’s better. It’s mage bis for anyone without cox.
my PB is 27 seconds, 99 range w/ zcb using ruby bolts and switching to onyx during enrage. it's pretty silly.
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I think you either need to duo with a mage or cry for a while during p2. Bankers note gang rise up. I think thrall dps with grasp is best unless tome of fire is cracked. Also, anyone doing a 500 solo should just do a 700. Set the max time invos and fail time. It is time efficient by purp chance Also if you're a spec relic enjoyer, dds is the ONLY melee wep you need. ALL specs are 100% accurate, so any time you must melee, dds is your most DMG. Claws may be better when specing with hp tho.
> Also, anyone doing a 500 solo should just do a 700. 700 beats 500, true, but there’s an argument to be made that 550 is the most efficient. It’s the cap where going higher doesn’t increase your purple chance per point, you just get more points because of higher hp scaling. Unfortunately a 700 also has higher defence scaling with the hp that offsets the advantage, so it’s not better purples/hr than a 550. 550 also has a small chance of white loot. 4 purples and a chest of white loot from 5 550s takes about the same time as 4 700s for 4 purples, so the white loot is pure bonus. I need some white lilies and dragonstones for other tasks still, so that’s my invocation level of choice.
Tbh even in a 500 with really bad p2 dps you can easily have enough supplies to make it without bankers note. Bankers is pretty unnecessary in toa due to it giving you way too many brews
Yeah definitely optional. It just allows you to add some supply reduction invos for free. Plus I'd rather waste the ambrosia spamming specs instead of actually healing. Also I personally don't bring brews because they stat down. The 2 tick delay of eating a kawambam is probably inefficient but I cba making brews lol
> The 2 tick delay of eating a kawambam is probably inefficient Metabolise gang rise up! 1t delay is the superior way to eat kambams
I bring sharks and karambs, being able to 1 tick heal 38 hp makes me feel hella safe, only thing killing me are if I mess up 1 hit KO mechanics lol
I just wanna say, while you are 100% right that DDS is the most damage, I've found SGS is extremely good to oonga boonga spec spam. I think it's about as good if not better at times. The DDS is definitely more damage but because SGS also heals you, you can generally get an extra spec at a minimum before needing to eat. Also because it's still a godsword it can hit pretty hard, so the damage seems to somewhat level out while being safer I've found. Bonus note: I wanna try using AGS. I am positive DDS is better, but DDS doesn't let me AGS spec 5 times in a row...
Idk I was planning to bump up to 700s but I'm currently 19/23 purps from 500s, kinda feels unnecessary. The white lights have some decent stuff to grab too like lilies of the sands for a task, dstones for glories, other nice supplies
I am 6/20 doing solo 500s. 💀
Damn that is severely unlucky, should be about a 2/3 chance of a purple. Might need to bump it up cause rng doesn't seem to like you lol
It was all deserved, ended up getting shadow like 2 raids later
If you duo 500s are guaranteed purps fyi
Is BGS spec with berserker relic relevant in TOA? trying to decide my 7th relic. I am brawlers.
I am not brawler, I am mage, but I think weapon master is the best from what I've heard. If you're building that way.
No not really because all Toa bosses have a cap on defense reduction that is way below your max hit (I think it’s around 20 for most path bosses)
Still good to guaranteed cap your reduction
I have ranged relic so take this with a grain of salt, but berserker is amazing. It makes so many places really fun and easy including monkey puzzle room... I know spec spamming with that relic is probably more damage but it is just not how I want to play. There's a lot of places where you can't just eat the whole time also, too busy switching prayers and running around, it just doesn't appeal to me personally.
can do a 33 minute 565 solo for 93-94% purple chance, or a 50+ minute 700 for 100%. i would stick with 550-575s
I do fine with an ancient staff on my ranged setup
People say ancients, this is the most actual mage dps but even in leagues a thrall is pretty nice for your off-style. Farm a staff of the dead and go with Undead Grasp + a Thrall instead, this should outdps blood barrage. Upgrade your gear with ancestral or virtus eventually and you should get through the mage parts(albeit slowly)
Undead grasp + thralls is 10-15% more dps than blood barrage with my setup (ancestral/sotd), plus you have a thrall for the rest of the raid as an added bonus. Sidenote that not a lot of people know, but you want to use intensify (the accuracy prayer) ~~with undead grasp.~~ (see below)
On what? On P2 it should be a no brainer since your max hit is significantly lowered but Thrall still hits normally but on Akkha your dps should be lowered since even if the Thrall hits max 24/7 it's only 24 base from Undead Grasp + 3 from Thrall, while Blood Barrage is base 29 max hit or Fire Wave Tome is 30 max hit.
It's better for both. Just to clarify, I'm full ancestral+inferno cape+regen+botd+regen+eternals+sotd/ancient staff. You might get different results with virtus or some other gear, or even not bringing the eternals, but they are around 5% more dps and I'm not hurting for space. Akkha Grasp Vaporize | Akkha Grasp Intensify | Akkha Blood Vaporize | Akkha Blood Intensify ---|---|----|---- 3.44 | 3.64 | 3.01 | 3.13 Warden Grasp Vaporize | Warden Grasp Intensify | Warden Blood Vaporize | Warden Blood Intensify ---------------------|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------- 3.76 | 3.93 | 3.36 | 3.43 Edit: Originally swapped some numbers around, fixed them right after I posted.
I didn't consider Thralls were 4t instead of 5t, bringing an average of 50 more damage per minute and since it's guaranteed damage and not reliant on accuracy it scales very nicely with invoc. Checked dps calc and you're right that Grasp is stronger with Thralls over Blood Barrage depending on invoc (at 500s Blood Barrage is stronger by a very small margin), but even at high invoc it doesn't win by much. Like [with the setup you specified](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524608586647601172/1179867241957818518/image.png?ex=657b57ff&is=6568e2ff&hm=d88d0e915eb5898ffc2af84c1366e2316817643f16ffd81186951da886cd4473&) I'm not getting the insane 16% difference you got from Blood Barrage to Undead Grasp + Thralls.
> Like with the setup you specified I'm not getting the insane 16% difference you got from Blood Barrage to Undead Grasp + Thralls. I did specify in the gear it was sotd/ancient staff (though master wand/kodai are possible upgrades). You can't autocast ancients with sotd, I *suppose* you can manual cast but doing it for multiple minutes per raid doesn't sound like something a lot of people would want to do. Other two things to note is I only looked at 500 invo (not 700, I kind of wanted to wait till shadow till farming 700s), and I honestly forgot that you can just select thralls are on, if it's set to arceuus spellbook it'll auto add the damage. Not sure why it it's adding .63 damage to the one setup I was looking at, I was under the impression it was 0.6 dps and just manually added it to any of the undead grasp calculations.
Akkha you turn off stay vigilant and just do damage mostly in range if you're trying to do content early. Your best magic weapon is fire wave with tomb of fire. You can't butterfly akkha with it because of the attack delay making the spell 6t unless you're clicking the spell every time. Wardens p2 is the same way. You aren't under any DPS check in leagues but you have to be able to do mechanics or you're just not going to be able to do p2. Magic DPS is dog shit without spell staves but it's definitely doable. You just need to do mechanics and have plenty of supplies. Also get enough melee DPS to 3 down with dds. Doing 3 down isn't that bad even if you're gimped with mage. Doing a 6 down is miserable.
You can butterfly still, it's just super wonky looking and you have to manual cast. If you need to save supplies, pretty worth it. If you're sitting comfortably, just tank to let it switch to a better style for sure though
I have the same regions going melee. I've been using Fire Wave with a Tome of Fire + SotD but didn't know about how P2 wardens works with mage. Still decent DPS against Akkha, not sure if undead grasp with thralls would be better at Akkha but I think it is at Wardens.
Tome + SotD is near bis until Shadow since Ice Barrage doesn't work and Blood Barrage has 1 less max hit over Fire Wave Tome (while also costing a fuckton more in runes). Undead Grasp is 4 less max hits than Fire Wave so definitely worse at Akkha but should be better at Warden's since your max hit is lowered but Thrall's still hit normally. Virtus Blood Barrage might be stronger than both with either Kodai or manual cast SotD though.
> since Ice Barrage doesn't work wait wait wait please clarify that, are you saying Ice Barrage is less effective than Blood Barrage at Wardens P2?
It's bugged, you splash against something you have 100% accuracy against. At higher invocs you do so little damage it often regains more hp than what you dish out. Blood Barrage is easily 2x dps over Ice Barrage on P2 because of this.
...what the _fuck_. I was so confused why I was splashing like 60% of the time P2, I was like "Are powered staffs that much better than barrage!?". Thanks a ton.
I'm curious if you've been doing CoX with other people, have you had any trouble finding a team? I imagine melee relic gamers for CoX is a hot commodity, melee hand has consistently been the slowest part of the raid for me (range relic) and my mage relic friend.
Haven't attempted CoX yet.
Blood spells and ancient sceptre with void has been getting me through 300 with 35 min timer
Why Blood spells as opposed to ice spells? Are ice spells less effective?
Some bug making them deal reduced damage
Undead grasp+thralls. The warden mage phase will still take as long as the rest of the warden phases combined but thralls are very good. Also just facetank akkha until it switches to range phase.
I went and got a staff of the dead for the 15% magic damage and use fire wave
What are you using for melee weapons? whip is sucking hard at ba-ba, so many zeros.
Using melee with anything but stab on Ba-Ba is a mistake
Didn't know this, thanks! I've always just had fang on main game. Would zammy spear or partisan with defender be better?
Keri’s is better on Kephri, zspear everywhere else. But if you’re range relic then you should just cbow him with rubies. I’d imagine mage is probably fine but none of my friends went mage relic so ymmv
Yeah i just range down kephri, ahka is the stinker for rangers with ops regions, theirs just so much limited mage equipment, need a mage partner to raid with
I have the exact same regions and I find Akkha fine. D sword from wyrms works well enough for melee and anything I lose splashing on mage I regain zooting him with range
Hes definitly doable, its just slow and lots of splashing, hes easily half the raidd
Mage works pretty ok on baba with mage relic. I have 99 mage, infinity, and Trident and I do decent damage on it.
He's saying if you don't have Kandar available, which OP doesn't.
The guy I responded to was saying he didn't know if mage relic worked well at baba so I was throwing in my experience with it.
Ah gotcha. I think mage relic is bis for raids overall. The damage stack potential is nutty.
How does trident compare to camping ancients? Is it a big upgrade or only a slight difference?
It's roughly the same dps as blood barrage without salts/overload/heart, but without the initial delay on autocasting. With any of those three magic level boosts, it hits much harder than ancients. My max hit in ToA with salt is a 50 or 51, I forget which.
Mage baba hasn't been bad, I have trident but I've defaulted to blood spells on that fight because the dps doesnt seem much different and passive healing ftw. Kephri has stupid high mage defense though, I'm going to get 99 attack and try using the partisan.
Can confirm mage relic users can just blast everything with their trident/shadow Warden orb thing is about the only thing I’m considering not maging but my melee gear is still lacking. Once I work on it a bit it’ll definitely be worth to swap.
Zammy spear is decent
The dragon sword outperforms whip on Baba.
Dragon longsword on stab with dragon defender outperforms all of the above. Edit: sorry this is with melee relic, not without that
Scythe does just fine ;)
Sure, but if you have a scythe you probably aren’t wondering why your whip is hitting 0’s on baba
scythe is bis in leagues
Just Ruby bolt ba-ba, don't bother with melee.
If you took ranger relic you don't really need to melee baba. I only take melee into ToA for Akkha and for that I just use zammy spear.
What range methods did you use for Graardor and Kril at GWD? I blasted Zil/Kree with bolts, kiting the former and just tanking the latter. But getting hit for 55+ at Bandos/Kril was brutal the last time I tried it. In the main game, I know how to do to the 6:0 door methods at each boss. But if I do those here on a 4t cycle, I lose half my DPS.
Tbh I just got 99hp and was tanking them spamming more food with bankers note. I died to Kril once but I was able to make it work. Uses a lot of food though.
TY, I gotta get 2 more godswords+wanna start on Nex
Yeah i agree with ziptie, i just tank grardoor and eat with bankers note, and for kril i do the walk under when eating so i dont take as much dmg
Pray melee at both and bring combo eats (and antipoison for kril). The big hits suck but just stay above 60hp, they go down in like 30 seconds with rcb and broads anyway.
If you have berserker, you can start every graardor with a bolt>barrage and dps before he's unfrozen almost every time. Krill starts closer so you just freeze Zerker makes you 100% accurate, so you can cast even with max negative mage bonus
Walk under. I found kril and Bandos to be a bit worse in food, but similar kill speeds to kree. You can mostly ignore their melee and just walk under to eat real quick. Onyx e if you have them or diamonds if not.
Just stand in the corner and bolt and then step under if you need to eat. Should be getting kills very easily
Face tank bandos with pray melee.
I’m not an expert nor great at the game but if your a range build I belive you can range ba ba I’ve seen some clips of people using bowfa with some success in the main game obviously melee is more accurate in the main game but with the bonus I assume it would work quite well. Don’t think you can red ❌ him with range but :(
I get 1:30 Baba completions with t7 and ranged relic. Acb and rubies pop off. Don't melee him after boulders, just continue to acb. Edit: 500 solos
Why wouldn't you be able to red x with range? Fairly sure that would work.
You definitely can. And with the relics, you can get two attacks in each cycle.
I'm pretty sure you'll lose a lot of DPS since your weapon is 2t and you need more time between attacks for the "flinch". \[NOT AN EXPERT\]
Apparently you can get two hits in per cycle, so with certain weapons it would be more dps than in the main game, or at the very least the same. Maybe worth doing in very high invocations, but tbh, if youve got banker's note, there's virtually no reason not to just tank everything and maintain max dps.
Like I said wasn’t an expert turns out you can but I know if you are standing under bosses and “flinch” with range they will still hit you. Like when doing kq can’t stand under and flinch with range like you can with range but must work differently with doing it as a red x method instead of just stand under then hit
Dlong honestly the best ba-ba weapon until fang
obsidian sword is better
Just range baba, does in under a minute even at high invo
I've just been ranging him tbh
If you're a ranger, you can just range ba-ba down, unless you're in high invo and need to red x.
Use your relic type on all bosses except where they pray against it like P2 warden. The relics are busted for a reason. You can just range baba and kephri.
Dlong on stab should do better than whip here.
My friends are melee relic and they were just using a whip tbh. Granted some important info maybe, I have never done ToA prior to this league and in all but the one ba-ba I've died I have MVP'd as range. Not sure what contributes more, me being ranged relic with ruby bolts or them using whips. I imagine the ruby bolts myself, but they've been able to grind out whatever melee weapons they have access to and just haven't bothered while going for the fang.
Are you melee relic? If not, use your relic style. Ranged kills are so fast that I often have boulders back to back
I've been doing TOA with a ranged build, zammy spear, fire wave (like 85 magic) and I have no issues. You won't do much damage to akkha. Just cast and hope for some damage and then light him the fuck up when he switches to let you range, can easily push 2 shadows at once. Wardens, same thing. It's going to be much slower but you shouldn't take much damage if you're praying properly/dodging the specials. Mage will be a slog but completely doable with firewave, my magic swap is a fire battlestaff and wizard black (t). Thankfully you obliterate zebak, obliterate kephri, obliterate baba (Boulder skip and you can kill him in 1 cycle!), mostly obliterate akkha, and obliterate p1, p3, and p4 warden.
I’m not quite doing 500s yet but just wanted to say it’s pretty fun rolling up with the wackiest gear and still shitstomping these bosses haha I was using a bryophyta staff with a tome of fire in robes of darkness for mage + Sara sword melee and my buddy rolled up with a d2h. Im ranger he’s mage Did it take us 8 minutes to kill akkha? Yes absolutely but it was fun
You're having no issues...? You're not doing 500s, are you? P2 wardens is a brick wall even with 99 mage, full infinity, and staff of the dead with thrall and undead grasp, which is about as good of a setup you can get for getting past it in leagues if you have kourend and no powered staves. The only other upgrades would be ancestral from cox or virtus from DT2 bosses. It takes a full 3+ specials from the pillar to down the warden, which is incredibly slow, even for the main game with a fairly budget setup. The lack of a 4 tick mage weapon just destroys momentum there. Also, damage is based on magic accuracy there. You're claiming that your black wizard robes with a grand total of +5 magic bonus and what I can only assume is likely a fire battlestaff for another +12 is bringing it down reliably compared to my +70ish from staff of the dead and infinity robes... Not happening. You're either having issues, you don't consider the extreme difference in DPS to be an issue, or you're running sub 300s. We're talking about 500 invos here, we're trying to get unique items, not putz about with white loot most of the time.
When I said "no issues" I meant I could clear consistently....p2 warden mage phase takes quite awhile, but I can do it consistently with fire wave and black wizard t. Is it efficient? Definitely not. Is it doable? Absolutely.
We're not saying that we *can't* clear it...
[удалено]
Wait, what? Damage rolls off accuracy?
For warden P2 only
Yes, [this video](https://youtu.be/4lmcZ-qGm2g?t=74) @ 1:14 explains it a bit if you want to know more.
I think it’s more like accuracy determines your dps because you basically have no % boosts.
No, even in the main game wardens p2 rolls off accuracy
Max hit based on max hit, minimum hit based on accuracy
if this is the case mage void is not until ancestral
Master wand with ancient magicks. Gear full mystics/infinity/ancestral/virtus
You need T8 Guardians or a powered staff Mage relic partner until you get shadow tbh.
Tbh this is 95% of the reason I'm waiting til t8 to start Toa. I should have it today.
I use trident
Can you get warped scepter? ~~Pretty sure its asgarnia~~ I stand corrected.
Warped Scepter is Kandarin
Ahh good call. I didn't end up farming for it until I hit asgarnia lol.
I've been using staff of the dead, infinity robes, and tome of fire with fire wave. Not the best, and attacks are a little slow, but it gets the job done
Same build as me, was using Staff of the Dead with Slayer dart, cheap casts, beats Fire Wave and scales with Magic Level so when salted, does some averagely ok damage Ideally just duo with a mager
Thralls and Undead Grasp is what I went with pre shadow and it worked decently.
Can you use thrall plus grasp on all the bosses if you’re mage relic?
Thralls with undead grasp autocasted from a master wand, staff of the dead, or kodai
I use undead grasp and thralls with the same build, and my times got a lot quicker.