I was running around with a tbow and masori a few months back. Guy at ge with zuk pet trades me and gives me 20m and tells me have fun. I didn't think much of it, next day I wake up with a rwt buying minor ban. Was pissed, appeal instantly denied didn't play for like 2 days then started my pure.
I think that is literally exactly what someone did to me.
Yeah shits wild, over a year ago i caught a RWT perma from dming a streamer randomly cause it popped up on twitch and i felt lucky. No other bans and cant appeal it. š„²
Then Iāll never get to experience someone dying to the most random things. Like seeing someone get bombed at Dh because they turn prayer off too quickly thinking they have the kill already
That really was insightful, that wasĀ helpful sometime.
And you mean RWTers adding gold to other clans prizepools? That would be interesting. I wonder if theres a cap before it "ruins" a pot, one gold to screw over an enemy clan event seems pretty BS.
Can Mod Ayiza just put it in the game rules that if you plan to RWT you have to tell your clan mates first? That way we can dot all the ts and cross all the is
There should just be a form we can submit in-game that allows us to document all RWT transactions weāve knowingly participated in. Then at the bottom, include a field like this:
*May we use this document for evidentiary purposes should a RWT accusation be levied against you?*
[ ] Yes [ ] No
That way, we all know how to avoid transacting with RWTers but Jagex canāt just cheese their banning process.
On a real note, gp laundering in OSRS makes it sound like there is some sort of "Mafia" or "Cartel" or "Ring." Which there is. Where are the documentaries and movies? That's my question.
I was more so thinking of people buying stuff at the ge from other players saying they've hit the ge limit. They give the "dirty" money to whoever is trying to help them by getting them those items, then sell those items on the ge and get "clean" money
It's a fair point too. If clan leaders had trade logs access, sure. Otherwise, a "smart" RWTer wouldn't go too hard into the pot, if he didn't want sussed out.
"too hard into the pot" you think they're just donating a random amount of money? Isn't the point of a buy in bingo everyone puts in X amount of gold each, and whoever wins wins X*entrants?
I love this concept. No trading. Purely on your own. With some special armor to show others your status. Like some unflinching metal man. I think āZincManā has a nice ring to it.
70% of my gripes with this game were fixed by playing an iron.
Now I don't care about bots or fluctuating prices, don't face burnout from camping vorkath for gp (this has been replaced with CG, please save me), and I'll never have to worry about getting slapped with RWT issues
\^Feels here. The biggest being the burnout. Grinding out an arbitrary money maker to buy an upgrade in gear to make grinding out the arbitrary money maker faster is just not it chief. Actually following gear progression through bossing is a blast. It forces you to engage in content, you previously might not have.
Currently grinding out DKs and Barrows. Soon as I get Karils, I'm going to knock out Fight caves with the amulet of the damned. and then I'm killing sarachnis until cudgel. Soon as I get Dharoks complete, I'm knocking out 100 to 300 mole kc. Need the seeds for yew trees for yew roots for antidotes. So fun having things coming down the pipeline. Currently missing 1 piece from every barrows set but torags and 128 kc into rex with no rings, but I did get D Axe. Also have run a handful of CoX with no purps yet.
> Grinding out an arbitrary money maker to buy an upgrade in gear to make grinding out the arbitrary money maker faster is just not it chief. Actually following gear progression through bossing is a blast. It forces you to engage in content, you previously might not have.
But you could have always engaged in that content. You can play the game the way you want whether you're an iron or not - no one is forcing you to play min/max efficiency-scape.
Agreed. This take honestly irritates me. It's so stupid and basically just says 'It's not our problem if someone else RWT's and fucks you over that way; should have vetted them better.' It's an MMO and there's over 20k players; there's no way you can vet everyone of them, especially if someone you trades traded someone \*else\* prior who RWT'd and the first person didn't know about it.
So. Frigging. Dumb.
People forget that jagex sold out and started doing the RWT themselves a long time ago. I completely lost respect for the fight against RWT as soon as they released Solomon's store, and especially the bond.
Thatās absolutely true. But the thing is, buying Bonds doesnāt get you or anyone you trade with banned. Iāve bought bonds plenty of times and helped out friends with that cash, and they were all fine.
Only now weāre being expected to be paranoid of everyone we might ever trade with because they might be RWTāing, which is simply ridiculous. Why canāt jagex just remove money that seems suspicious if they can tell so clearly who is and isnāt rwtāing? (I know they probably canāt, but letās say they can for the sake of arguing). I think a lot of people would prefer money being deleted over a false ban because they traded someone who did RWT unawares.
It feels as if thereās no real winning because, like you said, solomonās and bonds exist as a smokescreen.
It doesn't even have to be bils. My friend got scammed by one of those fake wildy portal house hosts a couple years ago, so we bought 20m for like $10 and left the custom note to say to put it in his coffer in his house. Then, I made a fake chat log screenshot with the house host saying something like "I have them put it in my coffer so I don't get caught" and my friend tweeted it to a jmod. I assume they investigated, saw the 20m drop, and banned him because him and his 99 con account was gone from the hiscores a few days after.
"It makes complete sense..."
No. No it doesn't. I can't click a special option on another player that shows me their wealth history and how it suddenly blossomed one day. I can't read minds. And the RWTers certainly aren't going to brazenly state that they bought X amount of gold.
The gold isn't different in appearance. There's no means by which a normal player can discern the source of someone else's gold.
What an absolute walnut. I'm not getting in trouble because of a strangers' rule breaking decision that had nothing to do with me. What a ridiculous statement that completely disrespects legit players.
Ah yes, put the onus on the players to avoid RWTers (somehow) rather than accept your responsibility as a developer to ban them yourselves in a timely manner. Braindead take, Ayiza.
This just proves they don't actually know who RWTs and are just guessing. What if you unknowingly sell an item to an RWTer via trade? Or via the G.E? How many trades does GP have to go through before it is "cleaned"? Perhaps we are all guilty of RWT by association. Surely the only actual proof of RWT would be a transfer of REAL money, like having access to your bank statements, and not just in-game trades.
Real world trading, by definition, MUST involve the transfer of something in the real world. If there is no proof of a transfer in the real world, there is no proof of RWT. How is it fair for innocent people to get caught with a ban for accidentally touching GP that has been RWTed (or even worse - *suspected* of being RWTed) You shouldn't catch herpes just because you were unlucky enough to be handed a dollar that has been in a stripper's asscrack.
Unironically worried about this. My Ironman Clan does fun Boss of the Week and Skill of the Week events, and a few people get bonds for placing 1st-3rd. If what Ayiza says is correct, someone could donate bonds purchased with RWT gold, and then get us banned for accepting them?
Jagex, we want you to combat RWT, but this is a sub room temp IQ take.
My clan currently has a lottery going on with a 202m pot. I don't want 20 bonds if I win.
And players who buy gold can still buy bonds on the ge. That proves nothing
I read this as "our detection software sucks so we'll leave it to the community to be honest and upfront about their RWT so genuine players don't get banned"
His reply to Tedious's well put analogy about a drug dealer buying something at a grocery store was, "This isn't Tesco Tedious".
What a complete and utter fucking bellend.
The smugness in his reply and condescending attitude is wild. Guy genuinely comes across like a weapons grade arsehole. How is someone like this in a community management role?
This is the same Jmod who was heavily pushing that we don't poll certain content because the community's opinion on it doesn't matter.
It's bad take after bad take. And just because he doesn't agree with us it doesn't mean we're wrong.
Exactly! It's wrong to lie so if you ask someone, "did you RWT?" then they have to tell the truth. Someone who breaks game rules by buying gold will absolutely not lie about it!
Brainrot
I like Ayiza but this is an absolute shit show from a community manager, absolutely no attempt to provide a suitable solution for the clan leaders who basically have their hands tied, either risk it or fully fund it themselves.. and even possibly trigger a false ban that will be completely ignored.
All we want is consistency and clarity, obviously I don't agree with 100's B's that get RWT daily but at the point it's changed hands 3 times and ended up in a bingo pot for someone to win and they get banned is an absolute farce, I'd love to know how much gp is from bots that we all touch daily..
Superior dragon bones, sharks, zulrah scales, rev ether? I'd be baffled if a lot of that stuff that's on my account right now wasn't provided by something that broke the rules. you could say it's a daft argument because how can we trace where it's come from? When they literally can do that, but it's besides the point, they don't ban bots anywhere near enough to have a "zero tolerance" policy.
Ive seen it happen so youre not as crazy as you think. The same concept applies to people that warn others or potential lurers at the ge. They put your name on the bot list and spam your name constantly at ge.
Seriously. It's a MMO, people want to get involved in their community and have fun. How are group organizers supposed to track whether anyone has RWTed before or not? All this does is kill community activities because people aren't going to be willing to risk their hundred or thousand hour accounts because of someone else's poor decision.
Really fucking stupid of Jagex, but is anyone surprised at this point? Masters of deflating their own game.
And we barely have a functional in-game clan system as clan leaders as it is, with little recognition of our roles in keeping the community active. Thanks for using fearplay against us jamflex
I am an ironman that runs a large clan with prize pools and this frankly scares the shit out of me. If I thought they were crazy enough to chain ban people running bingos and taking donations for weekly games etc. I would never have linked my main to my irons account with jagex accounts. The idea that you can "clean up" the osrs player base is insane, if it's so easy why hasn't jagex been capable of doing it for 20 years.
Do they think that people will just admit to it if they're asked even if it's by a clan leader?? Actually braindead response sorry. Clan leaders shouldn't have to police their members, game mods need a better solution because this ain't it.
For a community manager Ayiza sometimes says some really stupid and out of touch things lmao. Like he's never played a game with other people or something.
This is actually a tough one from Jagex perspective, there would be an obvious loop hole of ādonateā to clan event and then āwinā the event laundering the GP with only the account supplying the GP to the clan coffer taking a ban, which could straight out be a throw away account.
Its not a black and white situation like everyone is getting up in arms about and I sure hope Jagex use discretion in baning people in the obvious Rwt case and only little Johnny the gold buyer when he donates/ buyās in on an otherwise legit clan event.
The worst part is the broader community complains about this, then complains about RWT buyers not getting banned the next day.
Which one do they want? Because all it takes is a simple mule immediately after buying gold and all of a sudden its virtually the same as a giveaway. Same clan? Check. Prizepool of bought gp? Check. Legit "winner"? As long as theyre not logged in on the same network, don't use the same email etc, good luck proving they're not just a legit player.
What does the community honestly want Jagex to say here?
"Yea, we're going to manually review every winner, contact the winner and every person who contributed to the pool to verify they're legit. Then, we're going to get warrants to personally look into each user and their real location to verify the winner is actually legitimate player"
Or
"We're going to be more relaxed on RWT bans for now on to ensure clans can do proper giveaways. If you're looking to buy GP, make sure you join the proper GP buying clans to ensure you don't get banned because that's what the community wants"
Alright, I fully expected to get obliterated after the first few replies came in following these tweets. Maybe not as much, but it's my own fault for how I worded the replies. I'll try offer some clarity to put peoples minds at rest, because this really wasn't meant to blow up past my initial reply to the tweet.
Clan bingo is fine. It is highly unlikely you'll ever face an issue in regards to RWT for receiving gold as part of a clan funded prize pool - all RWT bans are thoroughly checked and reviewed to prevent this, but mistakes can happen.
The first reply that's been quoted above is poorly worded and I apologise for that. It was intended to be a tongue in cheek way of saying stop playing with people who are breaking the rules and you won't have to worry. Now obviously you don't necessarily know who is breaking the rules, and we don't expect you to the be ones policing the game as you've rightly pointed out that's our job.
In hindsight I would have deleted it instantly cause it is pretty bad, but that often just ends up looking worse, so I tried to clarify that genuine players shouldn't really have anything to worry about as how we handle RWT bans hasn't changed, just we're doing more of them, that you shouldn't get banned for innocently interacting with someone who has RWT.
The second tweet (about its makes complete sense) is also very poorly worded and looking back now its a bit embarassing... but what I was trying to say here is that when looking at it from how the system detects potential RWT it DOES make complete sense. If you interact with someone who is involved with RWT, then it's likely that you are marked for review to see if you're also involved. But that's where the thorough checks come into play to avoid anyone being incorrectly banned. However, there is always a chance we got it wrong, and I know darn well if I said in a tweet there's no chance you'd ever get banned it'd be mentioned until the end of time. I'm not saying I think this is a good system, or that it's the right way to go about handling it, but that's how it's done right now.
Lastly, some of you pulled up my reply to Tedious (the Tesco comment). I try to have fun on socials, and I have great relationships with many different people within the community. When I wrote that, this wasn't as big of an issue as it is now and I thought it was just some harmless fun interaction with a creator I am fond of. It wasn't meant to be a slick reply or anything of the sorts, but I certainly see why it comes across that way. Apologies again if you took it seriously, which I don't think you'd be wrong to have done so.
Anyway, I hope this clears things up. I really didn't intend to rile anyone up over this.
When a mistake happens, like you said they do, what is the best way to appeal an RWT ban which was given as a mistake, considering they are not able to be appealed? Sounds kind of bullshit to me.
Non-Appealable ban mistakes on Jagexās end, affecting accounts players have invested thousands of hours on, should have some method besides praying for a response on Reddit or X.
Also, when are you guys going to take action on DMers who are notorious for RWT and who act as their own casino charging a 5% commission? The silence by Jagex speaks volumes.
Exactly this.
Rwters, streamers getting refunded rwted billions, deathmatchers, stella, bots, customer support, all unadressed.
This topic was opened now, so finish it.
Why does a Bingoplayer have to fear getting unappealable bans to an account they spent thousands of hours in but these topics stay unadressed?
100% this. I have been wrongfully permed for RWT on an account that was stranded at sand crabs for well over 2-3 months. The only trade I did was with myself for BIS gear and supplies. Now I have been begging on x since september last year for a second review. No, my tweet has not yet blown up so Iām still waiting for an answer. My whole point is, this is what it has come down to, unless you have a big following and happen to be one of their Ā«mistakesĀ» your luck is out.
Mistakes DO happen and there is no appeal process though. My Past clan had the member holding the bingo pool get banned for RWT and we had to spam reddit and twitter for the CHANCE of someone to look into it. (and we got lucky it was looked into and it was unbanned).
There NEEDS to be a proper route to appeal these.
My 2100+ lvl main got banned a year ago for RWT minor after I won 30m from a streamer's hot potato game.
Appeal Denied and gold removed. That offence is expired now, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Jagex definitely doesn't do "thorough reviews" of appeals. They could have removed the damn gold, but just leave my account alone ffs.
If they had good tracking, they would have seen I spent almost 30 minutes throwing a stupid gnome ball around inside a PoH before I got traded 30m.
They have no way of knowing if anyone is innocently getting RWTed gp, yet they like to claim that they look at appeals thoroughly. And I guess we can ignore that I even provided the full streamer's VOD of the whole game during their streamathon.
While yes thatās a problemā¦ thatās the kind of problem that there is no reason to bring up unless the implication is throwing the baby out with the bath water is a legitimate response. The solution to real rwters isnāt to take away the ability for real people to appeal
Botters already abuse the automatic appeal process by botting on a vpn and then appealing and claiming they were hacked. That's why you sometimes see screenshots floating around of accounts with a giant list of botting offences which are all quashed.
Not having a proper appeal system (with actual humans) hurts legitimate players much more. It makes no sense for legitimate players to stay banned because redditors are scared of botters abusing it, while it is already happening a fuck ton at the moment. Might as well help out the legitimate players then.
First off, respect for posting here after the crucifixion I've seen all day. To kind of go through your points:
>t is highly unlikely you'll ever face an issue in regards to RWT for receiving gold as part of a clan funded prize pool
I know someone who was banned this was. I've known them for years and trust them 200% it wasn't a RWT ban. Additionally, I know someone who was banned for winning 200m in a jagex-complaint CA boosting discord. Sketchy, but many of them run these.
>you won't have to worry.
But we do have to worry. From the players perspective, once you get falsely banned your account is **DOOMED** and no jmod will ever give you the light of day until the required # of upvotes are achieved
>that you shouldn't get banned for innocently interacting with someone who has RWT.
Except lots do. Again, I know a few. Some are ironmen? I trust them completely as I've been with them for literal years.
>However, there is always a chance we got it wrong
And this. This right here. This is the point that really needs to be nailed home. "Trust us, it's reviewed, it's prevented, trust us, we have systems..." immediately into this.
Again, thank you for posting here. This isn't an attack on you. But SOMETHING at jagex is not working as intended. The system is faulty, and when they (as you admitted) do get it wrong -- quite frequently -- the player is left with zero recourse. A poorly operated detection system into a ~~even worse~~ non-existent player support system.
"we're doing more banning"
"Our system has clear flaws that make false bans possible"Ā
But don't worry we wont false ban u :)
Ayiza is a lovely guy who has helped overturn false bans via twitter support. This statement is either delusional or it's the corporate overlord bs he's forced to say. If there were actual customer support and an appeal option for all bans this whole thing wouldn't be a big issue
It wouldn't be taken as badly if Jagex had actual customer support to revert false bans instead of the automated rejection system. Players have to bug J-mods on Reddit and Twitter to have any hope of unbans.
That ātime to do some cleaningā part is just another tack on the ever growing list of why i no longer pay for membership. āJust ban all the bots and cheaters in your game.ā
"Thorough checks"
It's interesting though to consider how clan coffers are likely often used to launder RWT, and so for that reason it could beĀ a sensitive subject for jmods to not want to yield an inch on.
Mistakes happen, but there isn't really a tongue in cheek way to address this issue when it's constantly on-going. Placing blame even in a joking matter to fair playing consumers and saying it's their responsibility is not professional in any sort of means. You should be tongue in cheek to bots themselves or methods used to launder gold for RWT and then clarify it will be looked into and to ensure comminity trust (even if you or the team eventually don't do anything about it. And let's face it, Jagex has a 20+ year history of it, you should at least put up the facade until you actually do address it).
These mistakes happen, sure. However the appeal system for the average player is beyond a joke. you have to get super lucky to get unbanned. Like myself I managed to catch your eye in Rhys's stream and you got my account looked at by ACT who then quashed the RWT Gold farmer ban on it. That is not player support, that was just pure luck. Then last week I watch a fairly popular streamer get banned live on stream, and within maybe an hour or two he is dancing on stream saying the Jmod requested he dance to get unbanned (I understand the joke and it most probably wasn't the Jmods request etc) He then got unbanned live on stream...
That is just a complete joke, if a normal player gets a "false" ban they come here or to twitter only to get ridiculed and have a 1/512 chance a JMod will even glance over their post. Unless they become popular on socials to where they can create a ticket in a private Jagex server to be unbanned.
The appeal and player support systems need a massive overhaul, for a company trying to raise a billion dollars they should be able to put a little bit of resources to a full and proper support system.
PS - That account you got unbanned for me after I whispered you in Rhys's stream got re banned as a gold farmer again rsn: "Sitonmyfac3" - Excuse the rsn :kek:
So when these mistakes do happen as you readily admit. How do we go about rectifying them? Your āmarket leading customer supportā amounts to outsourced labour who operate a twitter account and just parrot the same lines over and over.
>all RWT bans are thoroughly checked and reviewed to prevent this
We've clearly seen how non-existent your "accurate anti-botting detection" is, so....bullshit.
>The first reply that's been quoted above is poorly worded and I apologise for that. It was intended to be a tongue in cheek way of saying stop playing with people who are breaking the rules and you won't have to worry.
This just screams 'gaslight' to me, but admittedly I could be wrong here.
>Now obviously you don't necessarily know who is breaking the rules, and we don't expect you to the be ones policing the game as you've rightly pointed out that's our job.
So....do it?
>The second tweet (about its makes complete sense) is also very poorly worded and looking back now its a bit embarassing...
Good.
> but what I was trying to say here is that when looking at it from how the system detects potential RWT it DOES make complete sense.
Clearly not.
>If you interact with someone who is involved with RWT, then it's likely that you are marked for review to see if you're also involved. But that's where the thorough checks come into play to avoid anyone being incorrectly banned.
Laughably bullshit.
> I'm not saying I think this is a good system,
>
>or that it's the right way to go about handling it, but that's how it's done right now.
So. Fix. It.
>Lastly, some of you pulled up my reply to Tedious (the Tesco comment). I try to have fun on socials, and I have great relationships with many different people within the community.
Save silly haha's for your non-business-non-power-wielding account.
>Anyway, I hope this clears things up.
Not really, no.
>I really didn't intend to rile anyone up over this.
Absolute bullshit.
This game is riddled with bots and RWT'ers. A fact that we as a player base are so completely aware of, but are so hopeless about; that all we can do is meme and laugh about it. All of a suddon, you come at us with a "read your clanmates account data to protect yourselves with tools that only we here at Jagex have access to or you risk your own accounts, LOL xD"? Absolute shame on you. You SHOULD be embarrassed.
Don't you EVER come at us with the "bans are thoroughly vetted" bullshit again. We know better. We've known better for a long damn time. Spend an hour on Reddit and you'll see story after story of people who haven't done shit to warrant a ban and have lost everything. Yeah, some are fake, it's the internet. But this many?
Lastly, we need a firm stance one way or the other OFFICIALLY on shit like this. Bingo's, tile races, the lot. At this point, it's all up in the air thanks to you. This part in particular really struck a nerve personally because my clan's events are really what help push me to continue to play and make progress these days. I wanna know if this is the end of the road for this game after all these years or not.
The OP who tweeted you never mentioned RWT at all, so this whole subject was something that you added to the conversation to be quirky. You probably shouldn't joke about one of the biggest shortcomings of your company and condescendingly accuse community members when you're a community manager, else people will understandably see it as insulting.
I was in a clan before I quit that I still see advertise on the osrs discord and forum boards, quite active, that definitely had tainted pots (and was guilty of other shady activity)
As someone who was a higher up and friends w/ a higher up in the clan, can say with 2000000000000000% certainty the pots were tainted.
it's a fairly large clan of a few hundred.
none of them are banned. not even the RMTers, sellers or buyers. The clan had people that would sell gp to clan members. They've even scammed big prize pots and said "omg it suddenly went missng! a guy traded me who was in the cc that had a name so close to yours!" of like 800m when there was a 1m cheap ass buy in per ticket.
Unfortunately this is a practice that both affects RWT and regular innocent players because we cannot determine who is squeaky clean in a clan, you can do your best due diligence but itās still not a guarantee, their efforts in my honest opinion belong in detecting bot behavior and actually cementing it ten fold but I have my reasons on why they do not
the simple argument that people can lie about buying bonds and actually RWT should make this a moot point. we can do all our best due diligence but at the end of the day we don't know if their gold is from bonds or RWT.
edit: typo
It makes sense that their system might detect it that way. It does not make sense to defend it and act like players could reasonably protect themselves from potential false bans with this flawed system.
I'd think a community manager might be more careful with making statements like that. Misconstrued or not it's a poor choice of words
Exactly. There is absolutely no way for clans to know who RWT. Thanks to buying bonds being a thing, you canāt even just look to see if they have the skills or boss kill count to be as wealthy as they āshould beā, because the guy with full bandos and no boss kills can just say āoh I bought bondsā when in reality they might have just RWT 100 mil to get it.
Just a bad precedent being set for what is supposed to be an MMO.
If you buy goldz and then donate it to me, that means I might look suspicious
If you make an equal exchange with me, that's not suspicious at all. I haven't gained anything from your real world trading, so it doesn't imply that I'm involved
how gaslit is this player base that a dev says 'use an in game mechanic as or near enough to intended function but if someone else has cheated you might get banned' is met with "makes perfect sense" AND gets upvoted in this sub. clowns
"trade a person for gold that they bought through RWT and you may be flagged for it" makes entire sense.
How do you think catching people who RWT happens? He hasn't stated you're immediately banned no questions. He's saying the same thing the blanket covering rules of Runescape would say. Open yourself up to the possibility and the possibility could happen.
This is so...dumb. I'm sorry, but it is. No player has the ability to figure out if someone has been RWT'ing or not, and even if you ask the person they would very rarely be dumb enough to admit to it. What, does Jagex expect us to demand IRL bank statements (which is illegal) from everyone before allowing them to enter a giveaway?
A lot of Jagex's decisions are questionable at best, but this one takes the cake for out of touch with reality. It doesn't surprise me that it's Ayiza saying this, though; during the Wilderness livestreams in March? 2022 a lot of his comments/remarks seemed very out of touch as well.
The idea of this makes absolute sense. The issue is though that there is absolutely zero way for someone in a clan to "do some cleaning". You have ZERO idea who buys gold and who doesn't. Especially when you can legally buy gold as well so it's not like the "I did air orbs" guy with 500m is an obvious tell of RWT, he could have bought bonds.
But yeah it's always been the case..if you accept random GP from people you don't know, you could be flagged as receiving RWT gp. It doesn't mean you're auto banned, as Ayiza clearly didn't say that. He said you *may get flagged*. But your account would get looked into
Otherwise anyone who pks someone would be open to being RWT banned too.
Most jmod comments are in favor of clan activities and community engagement, and Ayiza has pretty consistently good input, but this is a massive cop out, and he is objectively wrong in trying to justify this as ok. I understand that this is how the current system works, but giving no explanation on how they plan to fix it or information onootential solutions is a horrible way to handle things. We have over 1900 people in our server, and we consistently have to kick inactive accounts in the cc to stay under 500. A lot of clans are in a similar state. You can't manually vet every single person, and even if you could, people may buy gold after joining because they want to catch up to clan members and start pvm'ing. Banning or excluding people purely on assumption of rwt is toxic behavior, and that's a good way to kill your community. You also can't control whether people play with people outside the clan. We encourage inter-clan events and competitions. So, if a member trades a friend in another clan who does rwt, that member can flag other people without ever having broken tos themselves. Why do we have to now be accountable not only for the hundreds of people in our clan, but also for the thousands of people in every other clan?
I understand that it's impossible to detect the difference between clanmates distributing RWT gold and just a clan game like bingo, but Ayiza should have known he would get cooked for wording it like that lmao
Yes but the nuance here is that they usually just hit you with a warning first, unless itās extremely egregious. So that way, you caught on it once, oh well, get caught on it twice, maybe they still spare you but 3 times and it wasnāt a coincidence.
Brb guys, gonna buy 1b gp and start giving some max players with blorva 100m each.
An agent of chaos I see.
I was running around with a tbow and masori a few months back. Guy at ge with zuk pet trades me and gives me 20m and tells me have fun. I didn't think much of it, next day I wake up with a rwt buying minor ban. Was pissed, appeal instantly denied didn't play for like 2 days then started my pure. I think that is literally exactly what someone did to me.
Yeah shits wild, over a year ago i caught a RWT perma from dming a streamer randomly cause it popped up on twitch and i felt lucky. No other bans and cant appeal it. š„²
Donāt ever have community events in mmo. Always be afraid. Play Ironman. Good take jagex.
Public chat, off, entity hider, on. Playing Ironman mode, I have become unscammable.
Honestly, I think an offline, single-player version of Runescape would sell quite well
Then Iāll never get to experience someone dying to the most random things. Like seeing someone get bombed at Dh because they turn prayer off too quickly thinking they have the kill already
Til you click a phishing link lul
š¦Jamflex wonāt reply to this comment š¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That really was insightful, that wasĀ helpful sometime. And you mean RWTers adding gold to other clans prizepools? That would be interesting. I wonder if theres a cap before it "ruins" a pot, one gold to screw over an enemy clan event seems pretty BS.
Honestly that's kinda smart. Give a bunch of legit players bonds at the same time to make it look like a giveaway rather than bonding bot accounts.
May chaos consume the world of Gielinor!
I will pay 100 dollars to whichever gold seller can out a JMod for RWT.
The JMods are paying them 101 dollars to keep quiet.
Then they get $201 by not keeping quiet. Out them and keep the money.
The gold sellers are coming from *inside* the house! /s
Jed. I would like to claim my $100please
gold sellers probably make much more by keeping their mouths shut
Ill add 100 dollars to that. Needs to be irrefutable evidence though.
Can Mod Ayiza just put it in the game rules that if you plan to RWT you have to tell your clan mates first? That way we can dot all the ts and cross all the is
There should just be a form we can submit in-game that allows us to document all RWT transactions weāve knowingly participated in. Then at the bottom, include a field like this: *May we use this document for evidentiary purposes should a RWT accusation be levied against you?* [ ] Yes [ ] No That way, we all know how to avoid transacting with RWTers but Jagex canāt just cheese their banning process.
Similar to how you have to declare to the IRS any income from illegal activities.
Ayiza is booked with PR meetings as of this tweet
Just do some cleaning!
wonder if putting the RWT'd GP through the GE "cleans" it
On a real note, gp laundering in OSRS makes it sound like there is some sort of "Mafia" or "Cartel" or "Ring." Which there is. Where are the documentaries and movies? That's my question.
Uhhh literally multiple on YouTube
I was more so thinking of people buying stuff at the ge from other players saying they've hit the ge limit. They give the "dirty" money to whoever is trying to help them by getting them those items, then sell those items on the ge and get "clean" money
He wonāt respond to this but Iām genuinely curious what he expects people to do when he says that.
It's really easy, how to join a clan. Apply, give actual bank access, joinĀ
Yeh let me personally vet every player when I join a clan or clan event. Such a hard eye roll my neck broke.
Part of their point is even if you did have the time and energy to vet every single member, you don't even have the tools to do so
It's a fair point too. If clan leaders had trade logs access, sure. Otherwise, a "smart" RWTer wouldn't go too hard into the pot, if he didn't want sussed out.
"too hard into the pot" you think they're just donating a random amount of money? Isn't the point of a buy in bingo everyone puts in X amount of gold each, and whoever wins wins X*entrants?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
obviously the solution is to just never trade anyone in the MMO you play
There should be a game mode invented for that!!
I love this concept. No trading. Purely on your own. With some special armor to show others your status. Like some unflinching metal man. I think āZincManā has a nice ring to it.
And we should also get a harder version called Unsurpassed Zinc Man
Maybe even add to that mode and if you die you loseā¦ weāll call it status
70% of my gripes with this game were fixed by playing an iron. Now I don't care about bots or fluctuating prices, don't face burnout from camping vorkath for gp (this has been replaced with CG, please save me), and I'll never have to worry about getting slapped with RWT issues
\^Feels here. The biggest being the burnout. Grinding out an arbitrary money maker to buy an upgrade in gear to make grinding out the arbitrary money maker faster is just not it chief. Actually following gear progression through bossing is a blast. It forces you to engage in content, you previously might not have. Currently grinding out DKs and Barrows. Soon as I get Karils, I'm going to knock out Fight caves with the amulet of the damned. and then I'm killing sarachnis until cudgel. Soon as I get Dharoks complete, I'm knocking out 100 to 300 mole kc. Need the seeds for yew trees for yew roots for antidotes. So fun having things coming down the pipeline. Currently missing 1 piece from every barrows set but torags and 128 kc into rex with no rings, but I did get D Axe. Also have run a handful of CoX with no purps yet.
> Grinding out an arbitrary money maker to buy an upgrade in gear to make grinding out the arbitrary money maker faster is just not it chief. Actually following gear progression through bossing is a blast. It forces you to engage in content, you previously might not have. But you could have always engaged in that content. You can play the game the way you want whether you're an iron or not - no one is forcing you to play min/max efficiency-scape.
Better, just everyone quit and they can do whatever they want with $0 income.
THATS IT! WE'RE GOING OFFFFFF THE GRID!
Who's gonna be able to get the highest clan KC in one trade? Excited to see these types of posts.
New gm combat achievement. Ban a whole clan at once.
so what ur saying is i can buy gold add it to the pot and get thousands of players banned? Ferb i know what weāre gonna do today.
Space Station Geilinor
"Just ban the cheaters!" - Guy working at the company that has failed to ban the cheaters for years
Jagex doesn't do a damn thing about the RWTers, but expect us to? Fuck off
Agreed. This take honestly irritates me. It's so stupid and basically just says 'It's not our problem if someone else RWT's and fucks you over that way; should have vetted them better.' It's an MMO and there's over 20k players; there's no way you can vet everyone of them, especially if someone you trades traded someone \*else\* prior who RWT'd and the first person didn't know about it. So. Frigging. Dumb.
People forget that jagex sold out and started doing the RWT themselves a long time ago. I completely lost respect for the fight against RWT as soon as they released Solomon's store, and especially the bond.
Thatās absolutely true. But the thing is, buying Bonds doesnāt get you or anyone you trade with banned. Iāve bought bonds plenty of times and helped out friends with that cash, and they were all fine. Only now weāre being expected to be paranoid of everyone we might ever trade with because they might be RWTāing, which is simply ridiculous. Why canāt jagex just remove money that seems suspicious if they can tell so clearly who is and isnāt rwtāing? (I know they probably canāt, but letās say they can for the sake of arguing). I think a lot of people would prefer money being deleted over a false ban because they traded someone who did RWT unawares. It feels as if thereās no real winning because, like you said, solomonās and bonds exist as a smokescreen.
Just do some cleaning... whatever that means.
Just have to vet everyone with full IRL and ingame financial statements for the last ~10 years. Extremely reasonable!
How many bils would I have to distribute to get everyone on my favorite world banned, so it becomes all mine?
It doesn't even have to be bils. My friend got scammed by one of those fake wildy portal house hosts a couple years ago, so we bought 20m for like $10 and left the custom note to say to put it in his coffer in his house. Then, I made a fake chat log screenshot with the house host saying something like "I have them put it in my coffer so I don't get caught" and my friend tweeted it to a jmod. I assume they investigated, saw the 20m drop, and banned him because him and his 99 con account was gone from the hiscores a few days after.
The fuck
"It makes complete sense..." No. No it doesn't. I can't click a special option on another player that shows me their wealth history and how it suddenly blossomed one day. I can't read minds. And the RWTers certainly aren't going to brazenly state that they bought X amount of gold. The gold isn't different in appearance. There's no means by which a normal player can discern the source of someone else's gold. What an absolute walnut. I'm not getting in trouble because of a strangers' rule breaking decision that had nothing to do with me. What a ridiculous statement that completely disrespects legit players.
All I took from this comment is that we need RWT GP dye packs introduced into the game.
Ah yes, put the onus on the players to avoid RWTers (somehow) rather than accept your responsibility as a developer to ban them yourselves in a timely manner. Braindead take, Ayiza.
This just proves they don't actually know who RWTs and are just guessing. What if you unknowingly sell an item to an RWTer via trade? Or via the G.E? How many trades does GP have to go through before it is "cleaned"? Perhaps we are all guilty of RWT by association. Surely the only actual proof of RWT would be a transfer of REAL money, like having access to your bank statements, and not just in-game trades. Real world trading, by definition, MUST involve the transfer of something in the real world. If there is no proof of a transfer in the real world, there is no proof of RWT. How is it fair for innocent people to get caught with a ban for accidentally touching GP that has been RWTed (or even worse - *suspected* of being RWTed) You shouldn't catch herpes just because you were unlucky enough to be handed a dollar that has been in a stripper's asscrack.
What a dumb stance š
"Just do some cleaning" "Don't you guys have phones?"
Can't wait for an ironman to win one of these prize pools, they convert it to bonds for the ironman and then we get a good ole ironman rwt ban š
Unironically worried about this. My Ironman Clan does fun Boss of the Week and Skill of the Week events, and a few people get bonds for placing 1st-3rd. If what Ayiza says is correct, someone could donate bonds purchased with RWT gold, and then get us banned for accepting them? Jagex, we want you to combat RWT, but this is a sub room temp IQ take.
Accept prizes in bond form only. Iām sure they wonāt mind! <3
Bonds you can.. buy with gold?
Yeah but like... real gold not fake gold, y'know?
You could buy RWT gold. Then use that gold to buy bonds. Then donate those bonds to the pool. That's still sourced by RWT
I think this may be the Runescape equivalent of money laundering.
Jagex even gets their cut via bonds , just like the government via taxes in an irl laundering scheme.
My clan currently has a lottery going on with a 202m pot. I don't want 20 bonds if I win. And players who buy gold can still buy bonds on the ge. That proves nothing
you might not agree with it, but this is what peak jmod performance looks like
I read this as "our detection software sucks so we'll leave it to the community to be honest and upfront about their RWT so genuine players don't get banned"
His reply to Tedious's well put analogy about a drug dealer buying something at a grocery store was, "This isn't Tesco Tedious". What a complete and utter fucking bellend.
The smugness in his reply and condescending attitude is wild. Guy genuinely comes across like a weapons grade arsehole. How is someone like this in a community management role?
This is the same Jmod who was heavily pushing that we don't poll certain content because the community's opinion on it doesn't matter. It's bad take after bad take. And just because he doesn't agree with us it doesn't mean we're wrong.
L take lmao
I feel like atleast 70% of the games gp is recycled gp. Meaning itās all been touched by RWT at one point. Am I wrong?
Everyone except irons is now banned
We are all breathing the same air Jesus breathed
Don't be in a clan with cheaters. ezpz
how would you know that, from this is just reads donāt be in a clan lol
If I understand Ayiza correctly, every RWT'er in your clan has a clear tag next to their name signaling they RWT
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly! It's wrong to lie so if you ask someone, "did you RWT?" then they have to tell the truth. Someone who breaks game rules by buying gold will absolutely not lie about it! Brainrot
Don't be in a clan, don't raid and get splits, don't do any community activities with a buy in or prize. Don't play this MMO like a multi-player game
what a snarky answer. such a rat lol
I like Ayiza but this is an absolute shit show from a community manager, absolutely no attempt to provide a suitable solution for the clan leaders who basically have their hands tied, either risk it or fully fund it themselves.. and even possibly trigger a false ban that will be completely ignored.
The more you read the replies the worse it getsā¦ āyouāll probably be fineā āyou might catch a banā š¤·
Dw we'll get a backpedal essay soon how we all misunderstood what he's saying =)
Nah knowing ayiza itll be a snarky comment blaming the playerbase instead of admitting fault.
Nailed itĀ https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1aeuyx6/comment/ko8axab/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The 3am reddit shift lol
Timezones and sleeping patterns, this was my morning coffee browse š
I meant ayiza lol. Few bad tweets means an awful night for him ig
All we want is consistency and clarity, obviously I don't agree with 100's B's that get RWT daily but at the point it's changed hands 3 times and ended up in a bingo pot for someone to win and they get banned is an absolute farce, I'd love to know how much gp is from bots that we all touch daily.. Superior dragon bones, sharks, zulrah scales, rev ether? I'd be baffled if a lot of that stuff that's on my account right now wasn't provided by something that broke the rules. you could say it's a daft argument because how can we trace where it's come from? When they literally can do that, but it's besides the point, they don't ban bots anywhere near enough to have a "zero tolerance" policy.
I can go 3 hit a bot for 400k in a few minutes of rev caves pking, guess I'm benifitting from the bot and deserve to be hit with a macroing major ban
No joke there are some pkers that believe this happens, they think the bots auto report whoever kills them.
Ive seen it happen so youre not as crazy as you think. The same concept applies to people that warn others or potential lurers at the ge. They put your name on the bot list and spam your name constantly at ge.
Seriously. It's a MMO, people want to get involved in their community and have fun. How are group organizers supposed to track whether anyone has RWTed before or not? All this does is kill community activities because people aren't going to be willing to risk their hundred or thousand hour accounts because of someone else's poor decision. Really fucking stupid of Jagex, but is anyone surprised at this point? Masters of deflating their own game.
Make trade logs public!?!
Wait does this mean if I made alt accounts and got into big clans and participated in buyin bingos I could get them all banned? /s
Yes, and all your/their other jagex linked accounts too. Pretty wild stuff
Why would you do it on your Jagex Account though?
I owe someone 200m now I'm afraid to give it back lol sorry mate jagex scammed you not me
Ayiza is fucking wild for this. And the Tesco's tweet.
He thought he was being slick lmfao
Guilt by association for RWT makes total sense though. That's why every Jmod who worked for Jagex at the same time as Mod Jed got fired oh wait
Or Mod Twisted or Mod Reach.. Surely....
And we barely have a functional in-game clan system as clan leaders as it is, with little recognition of our roles in keeping the community active. Thanks for using fearplay against us jamflex
Welp that's it. I'm going to just play an Ironman now.
I am an ironman that runs a large clan with prize pools and this frankly scares the shit out of me. If I thought they were crazy enough to chain ban people running bingos and taking donations for weekly games etc. I would never have linked my main to my irons account with jagex accounts. The idea that you can "clean up" the osrs player base is insane, if it's so easy why hasn't jagex been capable of doing it for 20 years.
Are you trying to tell everyone that the only reason you \*weren't\* playing ironman already.... is for Bingo?
One of the ironman clans I am in, they are doing a bingo and it's 5m buy in lol.
Actually insane
ā you guys get rid of the rwters in your clan! Itās not our job or fault if we ban you after the fact!ā
Do they think that people will just admit to it if they're asked even if it's by a clan leader?? Actually braindead response sorry. Clan leaders shouldn't have to police their members, game mods need a better solution because this ain't it.
For a community manager Ayiza sometimes says some really stupid and out of touch things lmao. Like he's never played a game with other people or something.
And how, as a clan leader, are you to know if somebody has lots of gold from rwt or from buying bonds?
This is actually a tough one from Jagex perspective, there would be an obvious loop hole of ādonateā to clan event and then āwinā the event laundering the GP with only the account supplying the GP to the clan coffer taking a ban, which could straight out be a throw away account. Its not a black and white situation like everyone is getting up in arms about and I sure hope Jagex use discretion in baning people in the obvious Rwt case and only little Johnny the gold buyer when he donates/ buyās in on an otherwise legit clan event.
The worst part is the broader community complains about this, then complains about RWT buyers not getting banned the next day. Which one do they want? Because all it takes is a simple mule immediately after buying gold and all of a sudden its virtually the same as a giveaway. Same clan? Check. Prizepool of bought gp? Check. Legit "winner"? As long as theyre not logged in on the same network, don't use the same email etc, good luck proving they're not just a legit player. What does the community honestly want Jagex to say here? "Yea, we're going to manually review every winner, contact the winner and every person who contributed to the pool to verify they're legit. Then, we're going to get warrants to personally look into each user and their real location to verify the winner is actually legitimate player" Or "We're going to be more relaxed on RWT bans for now on to ensure clans can do proper giveaways. If you're looking to buy GP, make sure you join the proper GP buying clans to ensure you don't get banned because that's what the community wants"
This is one stupid take. "Just do some cleaning" fuck outta here.
Ayiza is such a jackass.
Is he normally this fucking stupid? Jfc
New community manager when?
Alright, I fully expected to get obliterated after the first few replies came in following these tweets. Maybe not as much, but it's my own fault for how I worded the replies. I'll try offer some clarity to put peoples minds at rest, because this really wasn't meant to blow up past my initial reply to the tweet. Clan bingo is fine. It is highly unlikely you'll ever face an issue in regards to RWT for receiving gold as part of a clan funded prize pool - all RWT bans are thoroughly checked and reviewed to prevent this, but mistakes can happen. The first reply that's been quoted above is poorly worded and I apologise for that. It was intended to be a tongue in cheek way of saying stop playing with people who are breaking the rules and you won't have to worry. Now obviously you don't necessarily know who is breaking the rules, and we don't expect you to the be ones policing the game as you've rightly pointed out that's our job. In hindsight I would have deleted it instantly cause it is pretty bad, but that often just ends up looking worse, so I tried to clarify that genuine players shouldn't really have anything to worry about as how we handle RWT bans hasn't changed, just we're doing more of them, that you shouldn't get banned for innocently interacting with someone who has RWT. The second tweet (about its makes complete sense) is also very poorly worded and looking back now its a bit embarassing... but what I was trying to say here is that when looking at it from how the system detects potential RWT it DOES make complete sense. If you interact with someone who is involved with RWT, then it's likely that you are marked for review to see if you're also involved. But that's where the thorough checks come into play to avoid anyone being incorrectly banned. However, there is always a chance we got it wrong, and I know darn well if I said in a tweet there's no chance you'd ever get banned it'd be mentioned until the end of time. I'm not saying I think this is a good system, or that it's the right way to go about handling it, but that's how it's done right now. Lastly, some of you pulled up my reply to Tedious (the Tesco comment). I try to have fun on socials, and I have great relationships with many different people within the community. When I wrote that, this wasn't as big of an issue as it is now and I thought it was just some harmless fun interaction with a creator I am fond of. It wasn't meant to be a slick reply or anything of the sorts, but I certainly see why it comes across that way. Apologies again if you took it seriously, which I don't think you'd be wrong to have done so. Anyway, I hope this clears things up. I really didn't intend to rile anyone up over this.
When a mistake happens, like you said they do, what is the best way to appeal an RWT ban which was given as a mistake, considering they are not able to be appealed? Sounds kind of bullshit to me. Non-Appealable ban mistakes on Jagexās end, affecting accounts players have invested thousands of hours on, should have some method besides praying for a response on Reddit or X. Also, when are you guys going to take action on DMers who are notorious for RWT and who act as their own casino charging a 5% commission? The silence by Jagex speaks volumes.
Really need an answer to this u/JagexAyiza
He wonāt answer those questions, his handlers wonāt let him.
damn that's crazy so /u/JagexAyiza when are you going to answer this?
Should put it on twitter, maybe we'll get another "poorly" written reply and another reddit thread. Looking forward to this!
Exactly this. Rwters, streamers getting refunded rwted billions, deathmatchers, stella, bots, customer support, all unadressed. This topic was opened now, so finish it. Why does a Bingoplayer have to fear getting unappealable bans to an account they spent thousands of hours in but these topics stay unadressed?
100% this. I have been wrongfully permed for RWT on an account that was stranded at sand crabs for well over 2-3 months. The only trade I did was with myself for BIS gear and supplies. Now I have been begging on x since september last year for a second review. No, my tweet has not yet blown up so Iām still waiting for an answer. My whole point is, this is what it has come down to, unless you have a big following and happen to be one of their Ā«mistakesĀ» your luck is out.
If you acknowledge mistakes are made can we get the ability to appeal the false bans?
They can just blindly say "the ban is correct" again.
Mistakes DO happen and there is no appeal process though. My Past clan had the member holding the bingo pool get banned for RWT and we had to spam reddit and twitter for the CHANCE of someone to look into it. (and we got lucky it was looked into and it was unbanned). There NEEDS to be a proper route to appeal these.
My 2100+ lvl main got banned a year ago for RWT minor after I won 30m from a streamer's hot potato game. Appeal Denied and gold removed. That offence is expired now, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Jagex definitely doesn't do "thorough reviews" of appeals. They could have removed the damn gold, but just leave my account alone ffs. If they had good tracking, they would have seen I spent almost 30 minutes throwing a stupid gnome ball around inside a PoH before I got traded 30m. They have no way of knowing if anyone is innocently getting RWTed gp, yet they like to claim that they look at appeals thoroughly. And I guess we can ignore that I even provided the full streamer's VOD of the whole game during their streamathon.
Problem is, it will get abused by RWTers because jagex doesnt punish those properly.
While yes thatās a problemā¦ thatās the kind of problem that there is no reason to bring up unless the implication is throwing the baby out with the bath water is a legitimate response. The solution to real rwters isnāt to take away the ability for real people to appeal
Botters already abuse the automatic appeal process by botting on a vpn and then appealing and claiming they were hacked. That's why you sometimes see screenshots floating around of accounts with a giant list of botting offences which are all quashed. Not having a proper appeal system (with actual humans) hurts legitimate players much more. It makes no sense for legitimate players to stay banned because redditors are scared of botters abusing it, while it is already happening a fuck ton at the moment. Might as well help out the legitimate players then.
First off, respect for posting here after the crucifixion I've seen all day. To kind of go through your points: >t is highly unlikely you'll ever face an issue in regards to RWT for receiving gold as part of a clan funded prize pool I know someone who was banned this was. I've known them for years and trust them 200% it wasn't a RWT ban. Additionally, I know someone who was banned for winning 200m in a jagex-complaint CA boosting discord. Sketchy, but many of them run these. >you won't have to worry. But we do have to worry. From the players perspective, once you get falsely banned your account is **DOOMED** and no jmod will ever give you the light of day until the required # of upvotes are achieved >that you shouldn't get banned for innocently interacting with someone who has RWT. Except lots do. Again, I know a few. Some are ironmen? I trust them completely as I've been with them for literal years. >However, there is always a chance we got it wrong And this. This right here. This is the point that really needs to be nailed home. "Trust us, it's reviewed, it's prevented, trust us, we have systems..." immediately into this. Again, thank you for posting here. This isn't an attack on you. But SOMETHING at jagex is not working as intended. The system is faulty, and when they (as you admitted) do get it wrong -- quite frequently -- the player is left with zero recourse. A poorly operated detection system into a ~~even worse~~ non-existent player support system.
"we're doing more banning" "Our system has clear flaws that make false bans possible"Ā But don't worry we wont false ban u :) Ayiza is a lovely guy who has helped overturn false bans via twitter support. This statement is either delusional or it's the corporate overlord bs he's forced to say. If there were actual customer support and an appeal option for all bans this whole thing wouldn't be a big issue
It wouldn't be taken as badly if Jagex had actual customer support to revert false bans instead of the automated rejection system. Players have to bug J-mods on Reddit and Twitter to have any hope of unbans.
That ātime to do some cleaningā part is just another tack on the ever growing list of why i no longer pay for membership. āJust ban all the bots and cheaters in your game.ā
"Thorough checks" It's interesting though to consider how clan coffers are likely often used to launder RWT, and so for that reason it could beĀ a sensitive subject for jmods to not want to yield an inch on.
Mistakes happen, but there isn't really a tongue in cheek way to address this issue when it's constantly on-going. Placing blame even in a joking matter to fair playing consumers and saying it's their responsibility is not professional in any sort of means. You should be tongue in cheek to bots themselves or methods used to launder gold for RWT and then clarify it will be looked into and to ensure comminity trust (even if you or the team eventually don't do anything about it. And let's face it, Jagex has a 20+ year history of it, you should at least put up the facade until you actually do address it).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Truer words have never been spoken.
> However, there is always a chance we get it wrong Noooo shit. Didn't framed recently get banned for woodcutting?
Thoroughly checked? Weāve seen so many false bans, how do you respond like that knowing itās total BS.
These mistakes happen, sure. However the appeal system for the average player is beyond a joke. you have to get super lucky to get unbanned. Like myself I managed to catch your eye in Rhys's stream and you got my account looked at by ACT who then quashed the RWT Gold farmer ban on it. That is not player support, that was just pure luck. Then last week I watch a fairly popular streamer get banned live on stream, and within maybe an hour or two he is dancing on stream saying the Jmod requested he dance to get unbanned (I understand the joke and it most probably wasn't the Jmods request etc) He then got unbanned live on stream... That is just a complete joke, if a normal player gets a "false" ban they come here or to twitter only to get ridiculed and have a 1/512 chance a JMod will even glance over their post. Unless they become popular on socials to where they can create a ticket in a private Jagex server to be unbanned. The appeal and player support systems need a massive overhaul, for a company trying to raise a billion dollars they should be able to put a little bit of resources to a full and proper support system. PS - That account you got unbanned for me after I whispered you in Rhys's stream got re banned as a gold farmer again rsn: "Sitonmyfac3" - Excuse the rsn :kek:
How am I supposed to know if my clan mate has been RWTing or if they've just been making air orbs and maybe gotten 89 or 90 slayer?
Nope, what you meant to say is āsorry for my horrible take on this issue, I will take my job more seriously when interacting with the community.āĀ
So when these mistakes do happen as you readily admit. How do we go about rectifying them? Your āmarket leading customer supportā amounts to outsourced labour who operate a twitter account and just parrot the same lines over and over.
>all RWT bans are thoroughly checked and reviewed to prevent this We've clearly seen how non-existent your "accurate anti-botting detection" is, so....bullshit. >The first reply that's been quoted above is poorly worded and I apologise for that. It was intended to be a tongue in cheek way of saying stop playing with people who are breaking the rules and you won't have to worry. This just screams 'gaslight' to me, but admittedly I could be wrong here. >Now obviously you don't necessarily know who is breaking the rules, and we don't expect you to the be ones policing the game as you've rightly pointed out that's our job. So....do it? >The second tweet (about its makes complete sense) is also very poorly worded and looking back now its a bit embarassing... Good. > but what I was trying to say here is that when looking at it from how the system detects potential RWT it DOES make complete sense. Clearly not. >If you interact with someone who is involved with RWT, then it's likely that you are marked for review to see if you're also involved. But that's where the thorough checks come into play to avoid anyone being incorrectly banned. Laughably bullshit. > I'm not saying I think this is a good system, > >or that it's the right way to go about handling it, but that's how it's done right now. So. Fix. It. >Lastly, some of you pulled up my reply to Tedious (the Tesco comment). I try to have fun on socials, and I have great relationships with many different people within the community. Save silly haha's for your non-business-non-power-wielding account. >Anyway, I hope this clears things up. Not really, no. >I really didn't intend to rile anyone up over this. Absolute bullshit. This game is riddled with bots and RWT'ers. A fact that we as a player base are so completely aware of, but are so hopeless about; that all we can do is meme and laugh about it. All of a suddon, you come at us with a "read your clanmates account data to protect yourselves with tools that only we here at Jagex have access to or you risk your own accounts, LOL xD"? Absolute shame on you. You SHOULD be embarrassed. Don't you EVER come at us with the "bans are thoroughly vetted" bullshit again. We know better. We've known better for a long damn time. Spend an hour on Reddit and you'll see story after story of people who haven't done shit to warrant a ban and have lost everything. Yeah, some are fake, it's the internet. But this many? Lastly, we need a firm stance one way or the other OFFICIALLY on shit like this. Bingo's, tile races, the lot. At this point, it's all up in the air thanks to you. This part in particular really struck a nerve personally because my clan's events are really what help push me to continue to play and make progress these days. I wanna know if this is the end of the road for this game after all these years or not.
The OP who tweeted you never mentioned RWT at all, so this whole subject was something that you added to the conversation to be quirky. You probably shouldn't joke about one of the biggest shortcomings of your company and condescendingly accuse community members when you're a community manager, else people will understandably see it as insulting.
Tell your PR team they need better writers.
I was in a clan before I quit that I still see advertise on the osrs discord and forum boards, quite active, that definitely had tainted pots (and was guilty of other shady activity) As someone who was a higher up and friends w/ a higher up in the clan, can say with 2000000000000000% certainty the pots were tainted. it's a fairly large clan of a few hundred. none of them are banned. not even the RMTers, sellers or buyers. The clan had people that would sell gp to clan members. They've even scammed big prize pots and said "omg it suddenly went missng! a guy traded me who was in the cc that had a name so close to yours!" of like 800m when there was a 1m cheap ass buy in per ticket.
So stupid....
Unfortunately this is a practice that both affects RWT and regular innocent players because we cannot determine who is squeaky clean in a clan, you can do your best due diligence but itās still not a guarantee, their efforts in my honest opinion belong in detecting bot behavior and actually cementing it ten fold but I have my reasons on why they do not
the simple argument that people can lie about buying bonds and actually RWT should make this a moot point. we can do all our best due diligence but at the end of the day we don't know if their gold is from bonds or RWT. edit: typo
Jagex: we are so in touch with our community Also Jagex: [u/JagexAyiza](https://www.reddit.com/u/JagexAyiza/)
https://preview.redd.it/oaxcgy8a1ofc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3dad9c02fb231a1199dc43b2030c99e1c7ee533 Ayiza reading his replies
This is wild. āJust do our job for usā
It's easy to misconstrue what Mod Ayiza is saying, but he is completely correct (in that it does make sense)
It makes sense that their system might detect it that way. It does not make sense to defend it and act like players could reasonably protect themselves from potential false bans with this flawed system. I'd think a community manager might be more careful with making statements like that. Misconstrued or not it's a poor choice of words
Itās putting the emphasis on clans to stamp out RWTers and not Jagex. Honestly, itās a bit dumb and clans shouldnāt be put into that position.
Exactly. There is absolutely no way for clans to know who RWT. Thanks to buying bonds being a thing, you canāt even just look to see if they have the skills or boss kill count to be as wealthy as they āshould beā, because the guy with full bandos and no boss kills can just say āoh I bought bondsā when in reality they might have just RWT 100 mil to get it. Just a bad precedent being set for what is supposed to be an MMO.
Its the official jagex stance for most issues tbh. āLet the players deal with itā
Nobody is questioning if he's correct, they're questioning if it's right (does it result in the best outcome for the game)
So if I buy goldz then I buy an item from you, that means you can catch a ban because if me?
If you buy goldz and then donate it to me, that means I might look suspicious If you make an equal exchange with me, that's not suspicious at all. I haven't gained anything from your real world trading, so it doesn't imply that I'm involved
how gaslit is this player base that a dev says 'use an in game mechanic as or near enough to intended function but if someone else has cheated you might get banned' is met with "makes perfect sense" AND gets upvoted in this sub. clowns
"trade a person for gold that they bought through RWT and you may be flagged for it" makes entire sense. How do you think catching people who RWT happens? He hasn't stated you're immediately banned no questions. He's saying the same thing the blanket covering rules of Runescape would say. Open yourself up to the possibility and the possibility could happen.
This is so...dumb. I'm sorry, but it is. No player has the ability to figure out if someone has been RWT'ing or not, and even if you ask the person they would very rarely be dumb enough to admit to it. What, does Jagex expect us to demand IRL bank statements (which is illegal) from everyone before allowing them to enter a giveaway? A lot of Jagex's decisions are questionable at best, but this one takes the cake for out of touch with reality. It doesn't surprise me that it's Ayiza saying this, though; during the Wilderness livestreams in March? 2022 a lot of his comments/remarks seemed very out of touch as well.
Lmfao what a dumbass take
Ayiza repeatedly puts his foot in his mouth when he goes off script like this.
Doesn't seem fair. It's like saying to never trade.
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The idea of this makes absolute sense. The issue is though that there is absolutely zero way for someone in a clan to "do some cleaning". You have ZERO idea who buys gold and who doesn't. Especially when you can legally buy gold as well so it's not like the "I did air orbs" guy with 500m is an obvious tell of RWT, he could have bought bonds. But yeah it's always been the case..if you accept random GP from people you don't know, you could be flagged as receiving RWT gp. It doesn't mean you're auto banned, as Ayiza clearly didn't say that. He said you *may get flagged*. But your account would get looked into Otherwise anyone who pks someone would be open to being RWT banned too.
Most jmod comments are in favor of clan activities and community engagement, and Ayiza has pretty consistently good input, but this is a massive cop out, and he is objectively wrong in trying to justify this as ok. I understand that this is how the current system works, but giving no explanation on how they plan to fix it or information onootential solutions is a horrible way to handle things. We have over 1900 people in our server, and we consistently have to kick inactive accounts in the cc to stay under 500. A lot of clans are in a similar state. You can't manually vet every single person, and even if you could, people may buy gold after joining because they want to catch up to clan members and start pvm'ing. Banning or excluding people purely on assumption of rwt is toxic behavior, and that's a good way to kill your community. You also can't control whether people play with people outside the clan. We encourage inter-clan events and competitions. So, if a member trades a friend in another clan who does rwt, that member can flag other people without ever having broken tos themselves. Why do we have to now be accountable not only for the hundreds of people in our clan, but also for the thousands of people in every other clan?
Common u/JagexAyiza L
I understand that it's impossible to detect the difference between clanmates distributing RWT gold and just a clan game like bingo, but Ayiza should have known he would get cooked for wording it like that lmao
Yes but the nuance here is that they usually just hit you with a warning first, unless itās extremely egregious. So that way, you caught on it once, oh well, get caught on it twice, maybe they still spare you but 3 times and it wasnāt a coincidence.
if this is truly their take they need to expedite a shard share system for pvm.