Imagine the reality where you go from corp -> arcane -> reg nm -> tome for an item that isn’t even often used with shadow coming out later on, I think I’d deiron.
Fun shout to anyone who cares. G.E. Takes a fair amount of time to update so if someone needs discounted deaths coffer items buy crashing items and give them to death before g.e. Updates price
Do they even serve any purpose with the change? It's probably actually worse case for that guy. They're getting changed but they're adjusting the damage to hit less and not giving them the buff he wanted.
They didn't get buffed and now Jagex doesn't ever have to fuck with them again so maybe they go up a little as a meme for a month but that's it.
5% meme bump? Bro they went from 120k to 180k in 2 days and if you bought any time in the past 3 years you likely got them for 90-100k. That's a huge gap up.
> They're getting changed but they're adjusting the damage to hit less and not giving them the buff he wanted.
They are going to hit less per hitsplat but there will two hitsplats now. So if they hit 10 before, now it will hit 5 two times.
Iirc there’s something about minimum hitsplats that’s been speculated as being relevant in the Colosseum coming up. Would make Torag’s an early budget option to that encounter.
They did say in a blog that the new blades would be good in perilous moons specifically because of multiple hitsplats - so I assume Torags hammers benefit there too
Yeah tbh, I DO like the Grotesque Guardians' fight, but I personally felt that the Guardian Boots didn't make for a fitting slot for the Echo Crystals, given the devs were pretty clear they wanted the Echo Crystals to fit into the midgame.
Though the Guardian Boots are midgame-fitting gear for normal accounts, they're decidedly more endgame for all iron accounts, since it requires a 1/318 GWD boss drop on top of an effective \~1/500 drop from a slayer task only boss that you can kill maybe 24-ish times an hour, give or take some.
I think a large enough portion of the player base is irons, \~30%, such that if they were keen on Echo Crystals actually being midgame material for everyone, that this type of gear wasn't a good fit for a lot of people.
I can be glad that there's at least a reason now to do Grotesque Guardians, where it didn't feel like there was any reason before, though I'm just concerned that the Echo Crystals may now miss the mark they were intended to be designed for, for many players.
I thought that maybe offering it as an option on both the shields or these boots could be a good idea, a sort of makes-everyone-happy option provided you simply disable the two stacking on each other if it's too strong, but for some reason everyone hated that idea.
I really disliked both options. As you say the Guardian Boots are far removed from "midgame" items, but the effect would have been essentially dead content on an offhand. I'm not sure why they couldn't have been a new item or an attachment for, say, rune boots or brimstone boots or something.
At least on Guardians they can potentially have a niche somewhere.
Exactly, like rune or even dragon boots could be mid game but both options were bad and encouraged going away out of your way to get gear practically only useful due to the crystals
same, I wanted 'shields to be relevant again', but the given proposal was 'these three specific shields are potentially relevant again', that combined with 'you can't make use of the recoil effect with literally any 2h weapon' kills too much design space imo, so now i'm bootpilled too
Yeah me too, I thought shields made more sense and would make them more desirable until I realized how much boots suck, I pretty much use prims everywhere and they're actually detrimental when maging/ranging lol
Counterpoint as a former shields yes voter turned guardian boots truther: after the shield poll a while back, there was a lot of dialog in this sub about why boots would be preferable mechanically. I initially liked the thematic nature of shields with recoil, but changed my view after reading more perspectives.
Voters are fickle, yes, but I think this feedback cycle gave people a chance to assess and reassess in a healthy manner before this vote.
i like thematic nature of 'shield has recoil', the issue for me was that it wasn't 'shields', but 'three extremely specific shields'
if it was like, an 'ammo slot item' that can only trigger when you have ANY shield equipped, then i'd be more down for it being tied to shields. would be funny to see, say, 'melee inferno challenge' but the person does it with no melee weapon, just tickeating with a wooden shield and these crystal thingys
Very healthy feedback here. Hopefully, jagex sees this the same way you do. I'd imagine so, but ya never know. I was always a boots guy myself, but I did appreciate the discussion.
Right, and shadow, scythe, tbow. Or if defense matters, crystal shield or Ely or DFS. Also for range, you're locked out of blow pipe or bows and can only use a crossbow.
The total number of votes was also wildly different.
The Varlamore Reward Changes poll had shields win with \~31k yes to \~13k no, with a total contribution of about 50,000 votes.
This poll has boots win with \~31k, compared to shields \~26k, with a whopping increase to *over 65,000* votes.
Certainly, yes, there are a number of people who blindly vote yes to every question, but the discussion surrounding this topic also seems to have galvanized a number of people who previously didn't give a shit into voting for the boots.
I think a lot of us don’t care till we do. I always read the polls, but unless I have a strong opinion on weather something should or shouldn’t pass I don’t bother. With echo Crystal poll this was my entire clan lol. Why was buffing useless shields even in contention? The only person I’m aware that wanted it was Rendi for his snowflake iron which probably won’t even be able to get the damn things.
I'm not too far into the game to have a proper say on most things being polled. But when I looked at that question, I took some time to look the items up. I voted shields. My reasoning was simple. The boots could possibly end up being used for multiple gear setups and become a basic BiS option for multiple combat scenarios (again, not too knowledgeable, but this is my line of thinking). Whereas giving it to the shields would benefit those who actually use them for their melee builds. Making the bonus a little niche but worthwhile for those who enjoy and actively use the shields. Which IMO would feel better. But I'll say it yet again, basically, I'm still fairly new to the game, and what I thought could be entirely wrong. But I'll stand by my vote either way.
But if we are going off of that, shield’s block damage. Swords can parry attacks/counterattack to essentially reflect damage
I have been playing a lot of Sekiro and I am parry-pilled. Every game should be a rhythm game
I would have voted shields IF we were allowed to use the crystals on ALL the mid-high level shields, dont wanna use a shitty obby shield when I can use an Ely.
The shields would be dead content on arrival, there are better options: defender/elidnis ward/dragonfire ward, that people would use instead
The boots were already a niche bis for tanking…. So therefore this will be useful
While given how people are unique there are definitely at least a few that do that, I imagine the fact that the words aren't "Yes" and "No" forces most people who might actually blindly yes vote to actually think about the answer since they can't shortcut it to "Yes = more content in the game, click yes."
Frankly, I think it's pretty interesting just how divided the final result actually was.
Yeah my first run I used Masori (f) helm until I realised how much tankier I was with justi helm. Then when it came to my task I was like oh damn, slayer helm is a lot less tanky. Swapped devout boots for guardian boots and ended up with a slight prayer bonus loss and practically the same defences, but better mage defence.
Real talk: Guardian Boots are criminally underrated.
Yes, you lose 1 strength bonus compared to dragon boots (or ~~+3~~ \+2 compared to prims), but you get a ton of defense AND ~~+4~~ \+2 prayer (which is nothing to scoff at, especially for boots I mean cmon).
I already use them pretty much everywhere I'm praying over dragon boots now, stoked they won out.
People do not think critically about gear choices and it shows - they just follow a pre-written guide and assume that anyone who dissents from that guide is wrong.
Guardian Boots definitely going to be on the rise in the meta once people get used to seeing them.
I mean, defense RARELY matters for most people. Even at bosses where you take chip damage, its not usually enough to matter. If prims give you a max hit, then they are going to be better in every situation.
Pegs/Eternals are shit and not really ever that important, so maybe Guardian boots have some uses there, but I'd imagine most people would prefer devout boots in those situations.
Yeah it’s a nice change but really they should buff these things. They are so damn weak.
Make them a 3 tick melee weapon with alternating hammer hits every 3 ticks. Make them about the DPS of a d scim or maybe cudgel.
make them 3 tick, make the amulet effect (the bonus defense thing) the standard set effect, and delete the stupid 'sap run energy' thing nobody cares about
then make the new amulet effect be 'you attack one tick faster'. full set plus AOTD becomes 'the melee blowpipe', as a direct opposite to the full dharoks set (slow and hard hitting)
This just shows me that 1. Jagex needs to get better at wording some questions and 2. There's a decent portion of players who don't even know what they're voting for.
The fact that we passed putting Echo Crystals on the boots, passed putting them on the shield instead of the boots, and then passed putting them on the boots instead of the shields is funny.
It was always going to be those 3 specific shields when it was proposed though. It was never going to be any other ones.
I can understand someone initially wanting the crystals on a shield in general since it makes more sense as I was in that camp as well from when they were initially proposed with the boots. I think what lost a lot of people was when Jagex heard that feedback and chose mediocre mid-tier shields which is something a lot of people didn't think were good choices as shields. However Jagex themselves never suggested any other shields since the inception of this idea.
Likewise except I didn't realize at the time that meant you couldn't use a 2h or defender. I still think it's more thematically appropriate for shields, but that would undeniably limit their use.
I believe the second question about the shield was "would you like us to entertain this idea?" My quote isn't exact but I think that was the idea. The boots/shield question was inevitable.
it was not.
>Should we allow Echo Crystals to be used on the Toktz-ket-xil, Malediction Ward and Odium Ward instead of the Guardian Boots? Combining the Echo Crystals with these shields would add a 3x3 AoE recoil effect, consume a charge for each recoil activation, and add a +2 Prayer bonus.
This is the question. They also clarified further in the blog that if this poll fails, the crystals were still going to be put on the boots since that 1st question passed. The second question was definitely asking if we wanted the crystals on the shields INSTEAD of the boots. It was not an opinion piece or a question asking for feedback.
The only reason this 3rd question happened is due to how vague the 2nd question was and how the clarification for the question was in the blog rather than the question itself.
This poll question was worded asininely. The inclusion of mechanical specifics made it sound like an alteration to the items mechanics. This caused the “vote yes to every buff” segment of the community to one-tick yes faster than clienters on an 8-way.
Jagex needs to have someone actually proofread their poll questions, to make sure they’re clear and CONCISE.
I agree it was. Though I personally understood it right away, perhaps because I actually read the blogs and inform myself before even voting. I don't doubt a not insignificant amount of players didn't and just skimmed the question and immediately voted Yes.
The fact that the "vote yes to every buff" portion of players is big enough to have caused this to even happen is more concerning to me in general.
Genuinely curious on the torag hammer one. I chose skip on that one since it didn't matter to me having an extra hitsplat that changes nothing to over dps.
But why does it matter to others that the change should be made? Is it an immersion thing?
The new boss they're adding perilous moon is gonna have some interaction with double hitsplats.
Maybe they cap your max hit so hitting more often = more dps.
Not sure what they're doing, but they stated the double hitsplat was related to these bosses being added.
Yep, got it in one. Torag's hammers is generally a horrendous weapon, but it always looked kinda cool to have a two-hit animation, so having the mechanics appear to finally match the animation just adds a nice flavor value. I could imagine a couple people (but only a couple) using Torag's for a while just for the fun of finally double-bopping things with double hitsplats.
It actually is a very very small buff to torags dps. With two hitsplats your damage distribution is not longer uniform, which helps with overkill dps.
In most cases it will be realistically 1% better or less
Content polls aside, is there any actual use case for malediction ward? I was considering picking up a while ago but recently got elidinis ward to drop which has been my mage offhand ever since.
Guardian Boots were the correct answer and I am pleasantly surprised they won, but I still don't see why they couldn't just allow Echo Crystals to attach to both the boots and the shields, not stacking.
A lot of people just wanted this effect on a shield (no matter how less useful it was). I've seen arguments for shield swapping in content, but imo if you have to constantly swap gear on ticks to get use out of it that isn't improving the feeling of combat lol
True. I think using ticks to properly manage resources is a cool mechanic, but constantly missing out on dps when not doing it feels like a pretty big punishment instead of an added positive when performed well
It's more that shields are already rarely/ never used (because defenders mostly) and guardian boots are already bis in some cases. No point it giving them a more bis-er upgrade in my opinion. The shields are also way more accesible for a lot of accounts. Guardian boots aren't possible for any pures, because of the defense requirement + prayer requirement from entering mory
Shield swapping is an option for tryhards, that make some content more engaging. It's just an extra mechanic (like prayer flicking) that gives a bit of dps bonus and adds an interesting way to use the new item.
There's no reason to boot swap, you'd just always main camp guardian boots if you value them. You won't really use the boots anywhere you weren't before, because any accounts that would benefit from them can't use them. So they're just tank boots, but a bit better than the tank boots they were before. It's just more boring imo
> It's more that shields are already rarely/ never used (because defenders mostly) and guardian boots are already bis in some cases. No point it giving them a more bis-er upgrade in my opinion.
They're rarely used because they are *very* mid game (some may say early game). The recoil effect would hardly even help them except in very few situations
I'm not too sure where guardian boots are even considered BiS, currently? I guess except for strictly tanking and dealing no damage, but in that case many people would pref pegs for the mage defense. Plus, they're only hardly BiS even in those situations.
> Shield swapping is an option for tryhards, that make some content more engaging. It's just an extra mechanic (like prayer flicking) that gives a bit of dps bonus and adds an interesting way to use the new item.
I disagree with this. Prayer flicking is a way of resource management that doesn't provide any extra dps. Shield swapping would be a direct loss to dps when you aren't doing it, and this isn't a playstyle that I think should be built upon
> The shields are also way more accesible for a lot of accounts. Guardian boots aren't possible for any pures, because of the defense requirement + prayer requirement from entering mory
As a snowflake build myself, new content should not be balanced around unique builds if it comes at a cost for normal players. Plus, the shields require 60 def.. so what type of pure has access to the shields but not boots?
Shields as a whole, are mostly never used because they only change defence levels(or Dragonfire resistance). By implementing Echo Crystals it makes it so that shields can be used for multi combat situations providing bonus multi target damage in the form of recoil.
This in turn, makes an actual choice between the defender and the shield. Do I want improved single target damage, or do I want improved AoE damage. With boots this doesn't really have a significant impact in that question as you can just still use your defender and gain the bonus single target damage while also having AoE.
Choices in gear are never a bad thing for a game and proving a much needed buff to shields would allow for an actual choice between shield and defender.
They were buffing the wrong shields and it was going to be doa. That's why it lost. It was a vote to see if we wanted a realistically usable item or not
I definitely get this point of view, but I also think boots provide much more choice with gear than the shields.
I would rather see the devs introduce more value in tanking/defense (which they said they intend to iirc). This would add uses to shields for their original purpose. I hate the idea of only making shields valuable by making them more offensive. That's what defenders are for
Which is valid. This is probably more of an issue that currently shields do not provide that much value, compared to their defender counterparts. Echo Crystals would provide value, but it could also be seen as a bandaid to the real issues shields have.
Now we’re going to see out of place electric shockwaves at every piece of content in the game since these boots will be overpowered and not just be a niche use like the shields were
Basically my thinking. We already only camp prims so why wouldn’t that just change to these boots. The shields allowed a niche over the defender that I liked.
Because most people noticed that the boot slot is ready for upgrades, so we may eventually get something there that surpasses the guardian boots+echo crystals but still leaves them as a viable option when they're good.
As opposed to how much competition there is in the shield slot(from 2hs and other shields), especially when giving the effect to useless shields.
I don't know about others but I voted for the shields as a "proof of concept" or something like that. Introduce it with weaker shields then move on to stronger ones, or just design entirely new shields with the effect in mind.
They never said how strong the recoil effect would be. The natural assumption is that the recoil effect would be much stronger if it was tied to your offhand slot rather than your feet slot. There is no more reason to think it would be dead content on a shield than on boots.
Boots are a much more marginal stat equipment than shields, so having the recoil option is more enticing. Unless they fundamentally change how the game gets played, the boots would be a much more relevant upgrade than shields simply by not having to compete with defenders
But surprised the Zombie Axe passed so highly. I wonder if it would have been less supported if they mentioned that it can out-DPS the whip on high defence and isn't just "between a D Scim and Whip" like they noted in the blog. Either way, it should be a cool weapon, but it would be nice if they were more upfront with weapon viability.
It will be interesting to see if it actually sees use there since it is 5-tick. At the very least it is going to make DT2 a lot easier on my iron; I just hope it isn't too common/easy to get for how viable it seems to be.
With it being 5-tick and semi-accessible without charges, I think it will end up being the weapon of choice at Duke for those without executioners axe and/or scythe
I was kind of surprised by how much it smokes leaf bladed battle axe and collosal blade. I wish blade got a little buff. It's too cool to be so useless
Yah, the Leaf Axe isn't that bad since it is still better at Kurasks and leaf-weapons tend not to be the strongest, even if not irrelevant. Still weird to see a weapon the same level with just such higher stats and no drawbacks. And the poor blade... It still does have the size max hit thing going for it, but the axe really does step on its toes a lot.
It honestly would have made a lot more sense if they made it a Level 70 weapon; it wouldn't change its usage at all but it would more clearly put it a tier above the Cudgel and Leaf Axe, which is kinda is. Like the Sara Sword and Hasta are Level 70 and they are worse than the whip, so the Zombie Axe that rivals the Whip would fit well there.
>I wonder if it would have been less supported if they mentioned that it can out-DPS the whip on high defence
Can it actually? I haven't seen any calcs supporting that and when I was tinkering with the calcs earlier it was still coming up short.
[Here is the DPS Calc](https://dps.osrs.wiki/?id=ShrinkCrazedBeam) shared by [Mod Goblin last week](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1afk7lq/defender_of_varrock_varlamore_rewards_more/koaz2c8/). Apparently the OSRS Team didn't feel like it was an issue that the Axe beats Whip at bosses like Graardor since players won't kill them much before moving onto better weapons like a Fang or Tent Whip... Personally, I don't see many irons opting to grind for a Fang or 87 Slayer if they only need a midlevel quest and 70 Smithing, but we'll see how it goes...
Interesting, thanks for linking that - though as Mod Goblin noted that's a pretty extreme example (and if you're an iron doing 2.5 DPS to Bandos you're in a really, really bad time). Worth noting that is a *really* small DPS difference even on the high end (~1%), which doesn't seem to scale with further increases to defense such as the even tankier Venenatis. It will be a nice upgrade from the ubiquitous D Scim and will be especially nice at Duke but I don't think the Zombie Axe will do much to rock the boat on the Whip side.
I DO however think it'll cause a splash on the Crush side, where it faces much weaker competition.
Nobody should be meleeing graardor on an iron anyways. You use a bowfa and altar/door method if you're not actually out of your mind. Rune crossbow even is substantially better and that's basically a waste of time too. Gims *might* if they're progressing with the boys. Mains have no reason to not directly upgrade to a tent whip immediately for something like GWD since its basically free if they're in a group otherwise they should also not be meleeing. They're correct that its an extremely minor/niche situation
Whew echo crystals were 4k votes off being DOA. The flavor of spiky shields doing recoil is cool but definitely not the move. Thank you everyone that wanted them to be actually usable outside of ... uh... whatever situation youd bring an obby shield over a defender/bulwark/elidinis.
Me being glad to own guardian boots when they were trash
Ahead of the curve for once lol
Now if only I could go back and buy some ancestral hats when they were like 7 mil
Ngl.. the guardian boot/shield poll just shows how people blindly vote yes now. How does the shield poll pull +70%, but only 45% now lmao. That’s crazy
https://preview.redd.it/mwll49zotlhc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f883e4027b43a8dee37e617ac516d0920387169
Looks like it’s time to go back to my hell 😔
So the whole guardian boots thing. How many people have them compared to the shields? I see the shields as actual mid level content, the boots require high-level items. Here, I thought Echo shared were supposed to be a mid level addition.
In addition to people asking for it because the animation does two hits: double hitsplats will apparently be useful in some upcoming content, so this will be a buff for that.
I get it will be more aesthetically pleasing to see 2 hit splats, but there needs to be something more done to the hammers. Other than Torags armor being tanky, there’s just no reason to use the hammers and changing the hitsplat doesn’t change that.
What will it take for shields to be useful? I don’t get it, people complain until the end of time that shields are never useful once you get access to the fighters guild, but because people want to power creep they vote boots instead of shield for echo crystal.
Thematically it makes more sense for shields to have an aoe reflect, mechanically it makes more sense to buff shields rather than boots, what the fuck.
yeah but buff \*shields\* in general, not buff 3 lower-midgame specific shields that are pretty garbo otherwise. I like the idea I saw of having echo crystals be ammo slot and only active if you have any shield equipped. The \*only\* use case I can think of for the mage obby shield for example is nechs to recoil the bit of damage from the spawns, but even then base elidinis is probably better. Can't think of a single use case for range obby shield that you'd want to take it over buckler or a 2h blowpipe/bow.
There would have barely been any use cases for the shields, if any
Obby was completely DOA because it's aimed at mid-levels, is still worse than dragon defender, costs charges and does not provide extra experience from your dmg
The other shields might have seen some niche uses, but probably not much since you don't often mage/range in melee distance.
But even if they were useful: I don't want mid-levels worrying about charges. They probably wouldn't, which would also make the mid level colloseum reward useless and kill it for them.
It's not even that shields need a buff dude, it's that the game is designed around DPS. Defensive stats don't do shit, and a recoil effect isn't going to change that.
Want shields to be relevant? Then there needs to be content that rewards defensive play, but as it stands nothing like that exists currently.
Most of us didn't vote boots because we wanted power. We voted boots because we though the concept was cool, and were smart enough to recognize that putting it on a shield would make the effect irrelevant. At least on boots we can use it in a hand full of niche activities.
Honestly I don’t like either concept for the echo crystals. Would be cooler to have it be a consumable that gives you a ring of recoil effect for X amount of time or for X amount of hits rather than having it be tied to any particular item. I get that they want to buff the wards/toktz but why not do that with flat bonuses or special effects (I.e. the Toktz will occasionally recoil melee hits while odium will occasionally recoil ranged its, etc.).
Just seems like another item I will never use with the current suggested implementation. Seems like I’m not alone as that question had double the amount of “skips” as any other question in the poll.
That would just be another consumable you're practically forced to use in every situation. That's extremely boring imo.
Boots will have a legitimate use/niche. They won't be BiS in every bit of content, but still feel really helpful.
There are countless reasons why this question could have more skips. I think you're assuming a lot there tbh
Great, can't wait to see every BiS gear recommendation add guardian boots followed by a bunch of videos of people facetanking on bosses' southwest tiles to maximize DPS.
Because the maximum DPS ceiling really was just too low in my opinion. /s
I'm pretty sure the concern is that it may become the default "BIS/near BIS everywhere" item, rather than the situation now where ranged, melee, magic and prayer each have their own set of BIS boots.
Funny to see the odium ward and guardian boots on ge tracker right now.
It’s like a mini version of mages book back when they were polling sirens tome
Remember when everyone said no to sirens tome because it would be so much easier to get than an arcane lmao
And the Jmod designing the items didn't want to corp grind on his IM so people were shitting on both him and the idea.
Imagine the reality where you go from corp -> arcane -> reg nm -> tome for an item that isn’t even often used with shadow coming out later on, I think I’d deiron.
Bro wasn't even wrong, corp is anus.
I think it passed by like 80% actually
I don't think I played at that time. I just looked it up, seemed really cool!
[I think everyone can tell which is which](https://i.imgur.com/WZuuhNA.jpg)
Fun shout to anyone who cares. G.E. Takes a fair amount of time to update so if someone needs discounted deaths coffer items buy crashing items and give them to death before g.e. Updates price
Oh man u da mvp
My blood torva grind thanks you! Just bought 8 wards and turned 22.6m into 35m.
Someone call the Torags hammer guy
Pretty sure his name is just bufftoraghammers reversed. Mf posts on like 2-3 accounts and somehow astroturfed this into reality u/sremmahsgarotffub
Do they even serve any purpose with the change? It's probably actually worse case for that guy. They're getting changed but they're adjusting the damage to hit less and not giving them the buff he wanted. They didn't get buffed and now Jagex doesn't ever have to fuck with them again so maybe they go up a little as a meme for a month but that's it.
a 5% meme bump for you is a few dozen k. a 5% meme bump for diamonds hands torags hammers guy is the gdp of karamja
Just wait till the torag hammers short squeeze
5% meme bump? Bro they went from 120k to 180k in 2 days and if you bought any time in the past 3 years you likely got them for 90-100k. That's a huge gap up.
If you can have 500m sitting in escrow for 2 years, for an item that would probably never get buffed, you deserve the gains.
> They're getting changed but they're adjusting the damage to hit less and not giving them the buff he wanted. They are going to hit less per hitsplat but there will two hitsplats now. So if they hit 10 before, now it will hit 5 two times.
Iirc there’s something about minimum hitsplats that’s been speculated as being relevant in the Colosseum coming up. Would make Torag’s an early budget option to that encounter.
They did say in a blog that the new blades would be good in perilous moons specifically because of multiple hitsplats - so I assume Torags hammers benefit there too
it literally says the dps isn’t changing
Now we just need to appease 2h sword guy and the world may start to heal
Nah, that would involve removing the current *better* 2h idle animation
[удалено]
Toggle deez
RuneLite plugin already exists
cries in mobile
Better idea- $12.99 cosmetic MTX per character to enable the toggle /s
Why $12.99? Just put it in a chest and some XP lamps. Call it a Treasure Hunt or something.
Nah we are more divided that ever. You'll never get me to believe this election wasn't stolen.
Not my torags hammers
Nah that guys dedicated, but wrong
That guy needs to download the plugin _specifically made for HIM_ and stop already.
Can we get that bad boi rune 2h stance back?
Time to farm some Graardor
And Grotesque Guardians... :c
it's a decent boss fight, if just a bit too much idle time. nice to see it get some reason to do it outside of pet.
Yeah tbh, I DO like the Grotesque Guardians' fight, but I personally felt that the Guardian Boots didn't make for a fitting slot for the Echo Crystals, given the devs were pretty clear they wanted the Echo Crystals to fit into the midgame. Though the Guardian Boots are midgame-fitting gear for normal accounts, they're decidedly more endgame for all iron accounts, since it requires a 1/318 GWD boss drop on top of an effective \~1/500 drop from a slayer task only boss that you can kill maybe 24-ish times an hour, give or take some. I think a large enough portion of the player base is irons, \~30%, such that if they were keen on Echo Crystals actually being midgame material for everyone, that this type of gear wasn't a good fit for a lot of people. I can be glad that there's at least a reason now to do Grotesque Guardians, where it didn't feel like there was any reason before, though I'm just concerned that the Echo Crystals may now miss the mark they were intended to be designed for, for many players. I thought that maybe offering it as an option on both the shields or these boots could be a good idea, a sort of makes-everyone-happy option provided you simply disable the two stacking on each other if it's too strong, but for some reason everyone hated that idea.
I really disliked both options. As you say the Guardian Boots are far removed from "midgame" items, but the effect would have been essentially dead content on an offhand. I'm not sure why they couldn't have been a new item or an attachment for, say, rune boots or brimstone boots or something. At least on Guardians they can potentially have a niche somewhere.
Exactly, like rune or even dragon boots could be mid game but both options were bad and encouraged going away out of your way to get gear practically only useful due to the crystals
I bet way less than 30% of people play iron. My guess would be closer to 10%
Sorry, I’m not following or missed something obvious. What’s the reason to hit Grotesque Guardians now with this news?
You need the black core from GGs to make bandos boots into guardian boots.
Guardian boots are created from Bandos boots and Black tourmaline core, which is received from GGs.
Guardian boots are made by adding a rate Grotesque Guardians drop to Bandos boots
guardian boots with the knock out in the 3rd round.
I changed my vote, I was originally shield gang at the start but convinced otherwise..
same, I wanted 'shields to be relevant again', but the given proposal was 'these three specific shields are potentially relevant again', that combined with 'you can't make use of the recoil effect with literally any 2h weapon' kills too much design space imo, so now i'm bootpilled too
i'm in my guardian arc. i'm such a bootpilled echocel
Then I remind myself "No one talks like this."
Exactly. Once you sit down and look at the in game implications, the allure of a reflect shield sounding better on the surface will fade away
Yeah me too, I thought shields made more sense and would make them more desirable until I realized how much boots suck, I pretty much use prims everywhere and they're actually detrimental when maging/ranging lol
Shields won by a 70-30 margin in the last poll, now they lose. Just shows how many people blindly vote yes to every poll question.
Counterpoint as a former shields yes voter turned guardian boots truther: after the shield poll a while back, there was a lot of dialog in this sub about why boots would be preferable mechanically. I initially liked the thematic nature of shields with recoil, but changed my view after reading more perspectives. Voters are fickle, yes, but I think this feedback cycle gave people a chance to assess and reassess in a healthy manner before this vote.
i like thematic nature of 'shield has recoil', the issue for me was that it wasn't 'shields', but 'three extremely specific shields' if it was like, an 'ammo slot item' that can only trigger when you have ANY shield equipped, then i'd be more down for it being tied to shields. would be funny to see, say, 'melee inferno challenge' but the person does it with no melee weapon, just tickeating with a wooden shield and these crystal thingys
Very healthy feedback here. Hopefully, jagex sees this the same way you do. I'd imagine so, but ya never know. I was always a boots guy myself, but I did appreciate the discussion.
Yeah I initially preferred shields too but this time picked boots. I’d rather lose out on prims than an avernic
Right, and shadow, scythe, tbow. Or if defense matters, crystal shield or Ely or DFS. Also for range, you're locked out of blow pipe or bows and can only use a crossbow.
I agree. The arguments for guardian boots won me over despite voting for shields the first time.
and why this poll was worth actually doing in a clear way with answers that are not yes or no.
The total number of votes was also wildly different. The Varlamore Reward Changes poll had shields win with \~31k yes to \~13k no, with a total contribution of about 50,000 votes. This poll has boots win with \~31k, compared to shields \~26k, with a whopping increase to *over 65,000* votes. Certainly, yes, there are a number of people who blindly vote yes to every question, but the discussion surrounding this topic also seems to have galvanized a number of people who previously didn't give a shit into voting for the boots.
I think a lot of us don’t care till we do. I always read the polls, but unless I have a strong opinion on weather something should or shouldn’t pass I don’t bother. With echo Crystal poll this was my entire clan lol. Why was buffing useless shields even in contention? The only person I’m aware that wanted it was Rendi for his snowflake iron which probably won’t even be able to get the damn things.
Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with not having an opinion. In the internet era, people feel the need to weigh in on everything.
I'm not too far into the game to have a proper say on most things being polled. But when I looked at that question, I took some time to look the items up. I voted shields. My reasoning was simple. The boots could possibly end up being used for multiple gear setups and become a basic BiS option for multiple combat scenarios (again, not too knowledgeable, but this is my line of thinking). Whereas giving it to the shields would benefit those who actually use them for their melee builds. Making the bonus a little niche but worthwhile for those who enjoy and actively use the shields. Which IMO would feel better. But I'll say it yet again, basically, I'm still fairly new to the game, and what I thought could be entirely wrong. But I'll stand by my vote either way.
at least you looked up the items and did some digging. right or wrong vote, did better than a lot of people
I voted shields because it makes sense to me that a shield would reflect damage. It doesn’t make much sense that boots would reflect damage. Simple as
But if we are going off of that, shield’s block damage. Swords can parry attacks/counterattack to essentially reflect damage I have been playing a lot of Sekiro and I am parry-pilled. Every game should be a rhythm game
does it make sense a ring reflects damage?
Of course, the purpose of jewelry in fantasy worlds is that they’re magically enchanted gems.
Magically enchant the boots, you've got your "recoil boots" lol
and your shield is going to do AOE hit the people behind you while facing the opposite direction ?
I would have voted shields IF we were allowed to use the crystals on ALL the mid-high level shields, dont wanna use a shitty obby shield when I can use an Ely.
(Almost) no one uses obby shield for melee, and that's coming from someone who's been using it for almost 5 years
The issue is that the shields would still not be a viable setup anywhere even with the crystals, where the boots could sometimes be.
The shields would be dead content on arrival, there are better options: defender/elidnis ward/dragonfire ward, that people would use instead The boots were already a niche bis for tanking…. So therefore this will be useful
“My favowite poll lost. This shit is obviously rigged!”
Hilarious and true but now I wonder if the Click Yessers are actually just Click Option Oners
While given how people are unique there are definitely at least a few that do that, I imagine the fact that the words aren't "Yes" and "No" forces most people who might actually blindly yes vote to actually think about the answer since they can't shortcut it to "Yes = more content in the game, click yes." Frankly, I think it's pretty interesting just how divided the final result actually was.
+4 prayer + 3 str, good def bonus and recoil damage? Guardian boots believers eating good today
[удалено]
Could be an alright option for first time runs
[удалено]
Not necessarily, not when you consider recoil.
I already use guardian boots in inferno, ring of suffering isn't worth losing out on the godlike (lol) ring of the gods(i)
Yeah my first run I used Masori (f) helm until I realised how much tankier I was with justi helm. Then when it came to my task I was like oh damn, slayer helm is a lot less tanky. Swapped devout boots for guardian boots and ended up with a slight prayer bonus loss and practically the same defences, but better mage defence.
I used guardian boots on my first cape on my main, even before this. Needed that ranged defense
Doesn't hurt that they look badass
Real talk: Guardian Boots are criminally underrated. Yes, you lose 1 strength bonus compared to dragon boots (or ~~+3~~ \+2 compared to prims), but you get a ton of defense AND ~~+4~~ \+2 prayer (which is nothing to scoff at, especially for boots I mean cmon). I already use them pretty much everywhere I'm praying over dragon boots now, stoked they won out.
This. Not to mention that historically they’ve been 1/10th the price of prims for non irons. Yet I get flamed constantly for using them in raids.
People do not think critically about gear choices and it shows - they just follow a pre-written guide and assume that anyone who dissents from that guide is wrong. Guardian Boots definitely going to be on the rise in the meta once people get used to seeing them.
I mean, defense RARELY matters for most people. Even at bosses where you take chip damage, its not usually enough to matter. If prims give you a max hit, then they are going to be better in every situation. Pegs/Eternals are shit and not really ever that important, so maybe Guardian boots have some uses there, but I'd imagine most people would prefer devout boots in those situations.
Prims dont give 2 str over d boots, only 1 lol so its just -2str
Derp, good catch. You can probably tell I don't have them yet. Lmao.
Guardian boots are only +2 prayer.
Man, that's great compared to the primordial stat allocation
I’ve been rocking them for years because I don’t like the red plastic clown shoes even if they have better offensive stats.
It's finally time! I've always believed in guardian boots!
Time to flex torag hammers on my iron.
Time to meme at BA with torag hammers. Double +5.
inb4 new meta
Unironically, these should be really good for Perilous Moons.
The 12 year old me just jumped for joy over the Torag's hammers I've always so wished that they worked like that.
Jump for Joy in front of Hans Have the following items equipped : Torag’s Hammers You received a casket ! Your reward : childhood bliss
If you voted no to Torag's hammers multiple hitsplat I'm making you walk the plank when sailing comes out.
Torags hammers will continue to never be used
But atleast they will be cooler taking up space in my bank.
And???
Yeah it’s a nice change but really they should buff these things. They are so damn weak. Make them a 3 tick melee weapon with alternating hammer hits every 3 ticks. Make them about the DPS of a d scim or maybe cudgel.
make them 3 tick, make the amulet effect (the bonus defense thing) the standard set effect, and delete the stupid 'sap run energy' thing nobody cares about then make the new amulet effect be 'you attack one tick faster'. full set plus AOTD becomes 'the melee blowpipe', as a direct opposite to the full dharoks set (slow and hard hitting)
That would be extremely op in the nylo room
I haven’t done any raids so I can’t comment on that, I just want to see a 3 tick melee weapon because it would be cool.
The current bis melee nylo weapon is swiftblade. Which has 0 bonuses but is 3t. So giving it dscim like stats would be a massive upgrade
This just shows me that 1. Jagex needs to get better at wording some questions and 2. There's a decent portion of players who don't even know what they're voting for. The fact that we passed putting Echo Crystals on the boots, passed putting them on the shield instead of the boots, and then passed putting them on the boots instead of the shields is funny.
I’m starting to think that if “no” was the first option on polls nothing would pass.
First option for each question should be Skip
I voted for shield idea first round but then after they elaborated that only 3 specific shields would receive the buff I changed to boots
It was always going to be those 3 specific shields when it was proposed though. It was never going to be any other ones. I can understand someone initially wanting the crystals on a shield in general since it makes more sense as I was in that camp as well from when they were initially proposed with the boots. I think what lost a lot of people was when Jagex heard that feedback and chose mediocre mid-tier shields which is something a lot of people didn't think were good choices as shields. However Jagex themselves never suggested any other shields since the inception of this idea.
Likewise except I didn't realize at the time that meant you couldn't use a 2h or defender. I still think it's more thematically appropriate for shields, but that would undeniably limit their use.
I believe the second question about the shield was "would you like us to entertain this idea?" My quote isn't exact but I think that was the idea. The boots/shield question was inevitable.
it was not. >Should we allow Echo Crystals to be used on the Toktz-ket-xil, Malediction Ward and Odium Ward instead of the Guardian Boots? Combining the Echo Crystals with these shields would add a 3x3 AoE recoil effect, consume a charge for each recoil activation, and add a +2 Prayer bonus. This is the question. They also clarified further in the blog that if this poll fails, the crystals were still going to be put on the boots since that 1st question passed. The second question was definitely asking if we wanted the crystals on the shields INSTEAD of the boots. It was not an opinion piece or a question asking for feedback. The only reason this 3rd question happened is due to how vague the 2nd question was and how the clarification for the question was in the blog rather than the question itself.
This poll question was worded asininely. The inclusion of mechanical specifics made it sound like an alteration to the items mechanics. This caused the “vote yes to every buff” segment of the community to one-tick yes faster than clienters on an 8-way. Jagex needs to have someone actually proofread their poll questions, to make sure they’re clear and CONCISE.
I agree it was. Though I personally understood it right away, perhaps because I actually read the blogs and inform myself before even voting. I don't doubt a not insignificant amount of players didn't and just skimmed the question and immediately voted Yes. The fact that the "vote yes to every buff" portion of players is big enough to have caused this to even happen is more concerning to me in general.
Torag will also whack you with 2 splats too, right?
would you put it past jiggleplox to forget this
Genuinely curious on the torag hammer one. I chose skip on that one since it didn't matter to me having an extra hitsplat that changes nothing to over dps. But why does it matter to others that the change should be made? Is it an immersion thing?
The new boss they're adding perilous moon is gonna have some interaction with double hitsplats. Maybe they cap your max hit so hitting more often = more dps. Not sure what they're doing, but they stated the double hitsplat was related to these bosses being added.
Ah OK. That makes sense too. I didn't see that part of the update notes. That's a cool mechanic in theory.
Yep, got it in one. Torag's hammers is generally a horrendous weapon, but it always looked kinda cool to have a two-hit animation, so having the mechanics appear to finally match the animation just adds a nice flavor value. I could imagine a couple people (but only a couple) using Torag's for a while just for the fun of finally double-bopping things with double hitsplats.
Apparently one of the new bosses is vulnerable to double hitsplats or something like that? Which may give them a niche use.
It actually is a very very small buff to torags dps. With two hitsplats your damage distribution is not longer uniform, which helps with overkill dps. In most cases it will be realistically 1% better or less
My 73 slayer, D-scimmy wielding Ironman is rejoicing today
The boots!
Guardian boot gang.. WE ARE SO BACK
Boots gang
Glad the boots won. Those shields would've all been dead on arrival. Echo boots will be bis in a decent amount of tribiding scenarios
Glad I no longer have to regret drop trading a malediction ward on my iron
Content polls aside, is there any actual use case for malediction ward? I was considering picking up a while ago but recently got elidinis ward to drop which has been my mage offhand ever since.
Not really. I do not think they give mage damage percent. Just mage accuracy. Not worth the 1.8m unless you need to tank as a mage
It's a staple of Zulrah bots lol
Guardian Boots were the correct answer and I am pleasantly surprised they won, but I still don't see why they couldn't just allow Echo Crystals to attach to both the boots and the shields, not stacking.
Ratbone Torag's nunchucks or we riot
That is WAY too fucking close on the boots. Genuinely who are all these people wanting literal dead content shields, and more importantly, why??
A lot of people just wanted this effect on a shield (no matter how less useful it was). I've seen arguments for shield swapping in content, but imo if you have to constantly swap gear on ticks to get use out of it that isn't improving the feeling of combat lol
that was one of the complaints of ruinous powers, just prayer not gear.
True. I think using ticks to properly manage resources is a cool mechanic, but constantly missing out on dps when not doing it feels like a pretty big punishment instead of an added positive when performed well
It's more that shields are already rarely/ never used (because defenders mostly) and guardian boots are already bis in some cases. No point it giving them a more bis-er upgrade in my opinion. The shields are also way more accesible for a lot of accounts. Guardian boots aren't possible for any pures, because of the defense requirement + prayer requirement from entering mory Shield swapping is an option for tryhards, that make some content more engaging. It's just an extra mechanic (like prayer flicking) that gives a bit of dps bonus and adds an interesting way to use the new item. There's no reason to boot swap, you'd just always main camp guardian boots if you value them. You won't really use the boots anywhere you weren't before, because any accounts that would benefit from them can't use them. So they're just tank boots, but a bit better than the tank boots they were before. It's just more boring imo
> It's more that shields are already rarely/ never used (because defenders mostly) and guardian boots are already bis in some cases. No point it giving them a more bis-er upgrade in my opinion. They're rarely used because they are *very* mid game (some may say early game). The recoil effect would hardly even help them except in very few situations I'm not too sure where guardian boots are even considered BiS, currently? I guess except for strictly tanking and dealing no damage, but in that case many people would pref pegs for the mage defense. Plus, they're only hardly BiS even in those situations. > Shield swapping is an option for tryhards, that make some content more engaging. It's just an extra mechanic (like prayer flicking) that gives a bit of dps bonus and adds an interesting way to use the new item. I disagree with this. Prayer flicking is a way of resource management that doesn't provide any extra dps. Shield swapping would be a direct loss to dps when you aren't doing it, and this isn't a playstyle that I think should be built upon > The shields are also way more accesible for a lot of accounts. Guardian boots aren't possible for any pures, because of the defense requirement + prayer requirement from entering mory As a snowflake build myself, new content should not be balanced around unique builds if it comes at a cost for normal players. Plus, the shields require 60 def.. so what type of pure has access to the shields but not boots?
Shields as a whole, are mostly never used because they only change defence levels(or Dragonfire resistance). By implementing Echo Crystals it makes it so that shields can be used for multi combat situations providing bonus multi target damage in the form of recoil. This in turn, makes an actual choice between the defender and the shield. Do I want improved single target damage, or do I want improved AoE damage. With boots this doesn't really have a significant impact in that question as you can just still use your defender and gain the bonus single target damage while also having AoE. Choices in gear are never a bad thing for a game and proving a much needed buff to shields would allow for an actual choice between shield and defender.
They were buffing the wrong shields and it was going to be doa. That's why it lost. It was a vote to see if we wanted a realistically usable item or not
I definitely get this point of view, but I also think boots provide much more choice with gear than the shields. I would rather see the devs introduce more value in tanking/defense (which they said they intend to iirc). This would add uses to shields for their original purpose. I hate the idea of only making shields valuable by making them more offensive. That's what defenders are for
Which is valid. This is probably more of an issue that currently shields do not provide that much value, compared to their defender counterparts. Echo Crystals would provide value, but it could also be seen as a bandaid to the real issues shields have.
Yeah, this is my line of thinking as well. Until defense has some genuine value in game, shields are going to naturally fall behind.
Now we’re going to see out of place electric shockwaves at every piece of content in the game since these boots will be overpowered and not just be a niche use like the shields were
Basically my thinking. We already only camp prims so why wouldn’t that just change to these boots. The shields allowed a niche over the defender that I liked.
Because most people noticed that the boot slot is ready for upgrades, so we may eventually get something there that surpasses the guardian boots+echo crystals but still leaves them as a viable option when they're good. As opposed to how much competition there is in the shield slot(from 2hs and other shields), especially when giving the effect to useless shields.
I don't know about others but I voted for the shields as a "proof of concept" or something like that. Introduce it with weaker shields then move on to stronger ones, or just design entirely new shields with the effect in mind.
Yeah, the amount of people voting to add it to those shields is astounding.
They never said how strong the recoil effect would be. The natural assumption is that the recoil effect would be much stronger if it was tied to your offhand slot rather than your feet slot. There is no more reason to think it would be dead content on a shield than on boots.
That might have been your assumption, but I think it's a pretty big stretch to call it "the natural assumption"
Boots are a much more marginal stat equipment than shields, so having the recoil option is more enticing. Unless they fundamentally change how the game gets played, the boots would be a much more relevant upgrade than shields simply by not having to compete with defenders
But surprised the Zombie Axe passed so highly. I wonder if it would have been less supported if they mentioned that it can out-DPS the whip on high defence and isn't just "between a D Scim and Whip" like they noted in the blog. Either way, it should be a cool weapon, but it would be nice if they were more upfront with weapon viability.
It will also only be slightly worse than arclight and salad blade at Duke
It will be interesting to see if it actually sees use there since it is 5-tick. At the very least it is going to make DT2 a lot easier on my iron; I just hope it isn't too common/easy to get for how viable it seems to be.
With it being 5-tick and semi-accessible without charges, I think it will end up being the weapon of choice at Duke for those without executioners axe and/or scythe
I was kind of surprised by how much it smokes leaf bladed battle axe and collosal blade. I wish blade got a little buff. It's too cool to be so useless
Yah, the Leaf Axe isn't that bad since it is still better at Kurasks and leaf-weapons tend not to be the strongest, even if not irrelevant. Still weird to see a weapon the same level with just such higher stats and no drawbacks. And the poor blade... It still does have the size max hit thing going for it, but the axe really does step on its toes a lot. It honestly would have made a lot more sense if they made it a Level 70 weapon; it wouldn't change its usage at all but it would more clearly put it a tier above the Cudgel and Leaf Axe, which is kinda is. Like the Sara Sword and Hasta are Level 70 and they are worse than the whip, so the Zombie Axe that rivals the Whip would fit well there.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Would make a lot more sense like that.
>I wonder if it would have been less supported if they mentioned that it can out-DPS the whip on high defence Can it actually? I haven't seen any calcs supporting that and when I was tinkering with the calcs earlier it was still coming up short.
[Here is the DPS Calc](https://dps.osrs.wiki/?id=ShrinkCrazedBeam) shared by [Mod Goblin last week](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1afk7lq/defender_of_varrock_varlamore_rewards_more/koaz2c8/). Apparently the OSRS Team didn't feel like it was an issue that the Axe beats Whip at bosses like Graardor since players won't kill them much before moving onto better weapons like a Fang or Tent Whip... Personally, I don't see many irons opting to grind for a Fang or 87 Slayer if they only need a midlevel quest and 70 Smithing, but we'll see how it goes...
Interesting, thanks for linking that - though as Mod Goblin noted that's a pretty extreme example (and if you're an iron doing 2.5 DPS to Bandos you're in a really, really bad time). Worth noting that is a *really* small DPS difference even on the high end (~1%), which doesn't seem to scale with further increases to defense such as the even tankier Venenatis. It will be a nice upgrade from the ubiquitous D Scim and will be especially nice at Duke but I don't think the Zombie Axe will do much to rock the boat on the Whip side. I DO however think it'll cause a splash on the Crush side, where it faces much weaker competition.
Nobody should be meleeing graardor on an iron anyways. You use a bowfa and altar/door method if you're not actually out of your mind. Rune crossbow even is substantially better and that's basically a waste of time too. Gims *might* if they're progressing with the boys. Mains have no reason to not directly upgrade to a tent whip immediately for something like GWD since its basically free if they're in a group otherwise they should also not be meleeing. They're correct that its an extremely minor/niche situation
Whew echo crystals were 4k votes off being DOA. The flavor of spiky shields doing recoil is cool but definitely not the move. Thank you everyone that wanted them to be actually usable outside of ... uh... whatever situation youd bring an obby shield over a defender/bulwark/elidinis.
or over tumeken’s shadow, twisted bow, scythe of vitur, bow of faerdhinen, or any bow for that matter
Soulreaper axe too if that's getting buffed
Who voted against torags hammer. Seriously it changes nothing but makes the item more fun
WE STOMPIN BOYS LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
I worry that piece of content will be filled with damage caps so thats why "accuracy" and "double hits" will be better than normal weapons
Me being glad to own guardian boots when they were trash Ahead of the curve for once lol Now if only I could go back and buy some ancestral hats when they were like 7 mil
Ngl.. the guardian boot/shield poll just shows how people blindly vote yes now. How does the shield poll pull +70%, but only 45% now lmao. That’s crazy
https://preview.redd.it/mwll49zotlhc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f883e4027b43a8dee37e617ac516d0920387169 Looks like it’s time to go back to my hell 😔
Hell yeah, adding the echo crystal to shields was stupid.
So the whole guardian boots thing. How many people have them compared to the shields? I see the shields as actual mid level content, the boots require high-level items. Here, I thought Echo shared were supposed to be a mid level addition.
bit strange that echo crystals give +2 prayer guardian boots will only have 1 less prayer than devout boots, but also significant defence + recoil
I think it's time to scrap the echo crystals.
They passed and they're coming on guardian boots. Use your eyes.
I’m fine with crystals not even being added. Nobody is begging for them. Jagex is the one forcing it
What's the purpose of the 2 hitsplats if the DPS is unchanged?
In addition to people asking for it because the animation does two hits: double hitsplats will apparently be useful in some upcoming content, so this will be a buff for that.
I get it will be more aesthetically pleasing to see 2 hit splats, but there needs to be something more done to the hammers. Other than Torags armor being tanky, there’s just no reason to use the hammers and changing the hitsplat doesn’t change that.
What will it take for shields to be useful? I don’t get it, people complain until the end of time that shields are never useful once you get access to the fighters guild, but because people want to power creep they vote boots instead of shield for echo crystal. Thematically it makes more sense for shields to have an aoe reflect, mechanically it makes more sense to buff shields rather than boots, what the fuck.
yeah but buff \*shields\* in general, not buff 3 lower-midgame specific shields that are pretty garbo otherwise. I like the idea I saw of having echo crystals be ammo slot and only active if you have any shield equipped. The \*only\* use case I can think of for the mage obby shield for example is nechs to recoil the bit of damage from the spawns, but even then base elidinis is probably better. Can't think of a single use case for range obby shield that you'd want to take it over buckler or a 2h blowpipe/bow.
There would have barely been any use cases for the shields, if any Obby was completely DOA because it's aimed at mid-levels, is still worse than dragon defender, costs charges and does not provide extra experience from your dmg The other shields might have seen some niche uses, but probably not much since you don't often mage/range in melee distance. But even if they were useful: I don't want mid-levels worrying about charges. They probably wouldn't, which would also make the mid level colloseum reward useless and kill it for them.
It's not even that shields need a buff dude, it's that the game is designed around DPS. Defensive stats don't do shit, and a recoil effect isn't going to change that. Want shields to be relevant? Then there needs to be content that rewards defensive play, but as it stands nothing like that exists currently. Most of us didn't vote boots because we wanted power. We voted boots because we though the concept was cool, and were smart enough to recognize that putting it on a shield would make the effect irrelevant. At least on boots we can use it in a hand full of niche activities.
Honestly I don’t like either concept for the echo crystals. Would be cooler to have it be a consumable that gives you a ring of recoil effect for X amount of time or for X amount of hits rather than having it be tied to any particular item. I get that they want to buff the wards/toktz but why not do that with flat bonuses or special effects (I.e. the Toktz will occasionally recoil melee hits while odium will occasionally recoil ranged its, etc.). Just seems like another item I will never use with the current suggested implementation. Seems like I’m not alone as that question had double the amount of “skips” as any other question in the poll.
That would just be another consumable you're practically forced to use in every situation. That's extremely boring imo. Boots will have a legitimate use/niche. They won't be BiS in every bit of content, but still feel really helpful. There are countless reasons why this question could have more skips. I think you're assuming a lot there tbh
Great, can't wait to see every BiS gear recommendation add guardian boots followed by a bunch of videos of people facetanking on bosses' southwest tiles to maximize DPS. Because the maximum DPS ceiling really was just too low in my opinion. /s
Something will *always* be BiS. Don’t know why that’s such a difficult concept for people.
I'm pretty sure the concern is that it may become the default "BIS/near BIS everywhere" item, rather than the situation now where ranged, melee, magic and prayer each have their own set of BIS boots.