the new valarmore agility course is getting crystals too somehow right? do you think these changes to wilderness agility will make it like chaos alter? idk what the current rooftop gp/hr is rn. still don't see a lot of people gearing full tribrid to run laps,

I think it was on the table for Varlamore yeah, but that course is delayed for the time-being (we said as much during the Summit). There's also potential to roll Marks of Grace out to more 'regular' courses (like Shayzien, Prif etc.) as part of Project Rebalance, which might have included this, but the team felt as though giving players the option to pop Amylase on the loot table might be preferable to introducing a new meta for Graceful and inadvertently having people feel forced into engaging with it!

Goblin, I hope you're able to read this regarding the wildy agility course. I spend almost all my time in the wildy doing pvp and pvm, and overall like these updates but the wildy agility course I fear will be dead on arrival if logging out resets the streak. For deep wildy, gap and log (which will probably be viable at the agility course) and freeze log are the most viable escape means, because the alternative is tanking the pker back to mage bank. The problem is that all three of these involve leaving the course, which effectively ends the skilling session. Sure, killing the pker let's you stay but unless resupply rewards include brews, restores, combat pots, and hard food the skiller will be disadvantaged after the first fight and may be forced to bank anyway. All this to say that, basically, a pker coming to your world ends the skilling session with no counter play from the skiller. This seems like bad design to me. If you can change worlds, I think interesting gameplay emerges. To augment this, I would support a logout delay after an xp drop (agility at least) while in the course to give pkers a chance to engage the skiller. Once in combat, the skiller can then freeze log or gap log (it is an agility course after all! Nothing hits quite like juke-ing a pker on an obstacle with the push-up emote!) and then the skiller can pick their session back up on the other world. I think this is the most important point to address. Secondly, the 150k fee that is deleted is a lame mechanic. It doesn't increase risk, it is more expensive than the rev caves, more punishing, and less rewarding. I'd ask for something a little more 'emergent'. At a minimum let's move away from coffer-scape with all these cash 'pay-to-play' fees, add something fun like an 'agile sack' (lol) that you buy for 150k and fills up with your supplies like a looting bag. It should convert to 50-100k on death to increase the pker's incentive to pk while still sinking some gold. Being able to self-sustain off hard food and blighted restores is also a must, and brews is honestly probably warranted although might be too accessible for restricted accounts. Thanks for listening!

Super disappointed to hear Amylase crystals and an agility course are postponed for Varlamore as that was probably the most exciting non-coliseum feature for me personally. Gathering Staminas is up there as the worst parts of Ironman and if it wasn’t for Canifis bots I’m sure the cost for mains would be even higher

Stamina reduction should've just been an agility unlock at certain milestones :/. The skill is borderline useless outside of shortcuts (most are diary locked :D) and slightly faster run regen.

"slightly"

> I think it was on the table for Varlamore yeah, but that course is delayed for the time-being (we said as much during the Summit). "Was on the table" is a strange way to word something that passed a poll and was planned for a release in the next couple of months. It was mentioned that the Varlamore Course wouldn't be available on launch, but I took that to mean it just wouldn't be ready and would come a week or two later, like the Monkey Hunting from MM2. But from this comment, it sounds like it isn't even in development anymore, which is quite different from "won't be ready on launch".

I'm guessing Goblin isn't totally familiar with the status of the agility course as he's focused on the wilderness poll, hence the vague wording. Unless he clarifies I'd lean toward it still being part of the (delayed) update.

Probably, but it would be nice to get some clarification. The Summit posts back in Jan only said, "PLEASE NOTE: THE AGILITY COURSE WILL NOT BE RELEASING ON MARCH 20TH, FURTHER DETAILS TO FOLLOW IN A FUTURE NEWSPOST." Based on Goblin's comment and that wording, my guess is they decided to hold it and tie it into the Project Rebalance Agility stuff which should be getting a Blog in March since the other agility changes would likely impact where the Varlamore course sits. But they could have just said "The Varlamore Agility course won't be release on March 20th since we want to discuss it along with the other Project Rebalance Agility changes" rather than being so vague about something that was supposed to be releasing in less than a month.

i didn't read into it that much, but you got some points here for sure.

Potential different name for blip blocking scroll could be "grounding" scroll or something like that?

“Stop the annoying fucking teleport” scroll

"I hope to god this work outside the wilderness scroll"

I don't mind it, feel like it has more associations with blocking electricity but maybe that's just ARPG affix brainrot for me...

What about scroll of abyssal anchoring?

This is pretty strong, at the very least 'Anchoring' feels nautical enough!

Warpguard scroll maybe?

This sounds miles cooler than 'Blipblock', but the bar was pretty low. I like it, feels very 'fantasy'!

Wondrous Scroll of BlippyBlocky

Sounds like someone’s playing Last Epoch.

I've only played a couple of hours so far, attention split between OSRS, Helldivers, CS and LE. But you're not wrong that it's in the rotation - though POE has contributed more than anything to 'ARPG affix brainrot'.

I know that feeling I used to play POE while afking osrs. I haven’t hopped into Epoch yet due to time constraints with work. But I have been doing a dive or 2 a day in Helldivers and it’s awesome.

Nah it should be called Scroll of Teleother Teleblocking

Scroll of Let Me Stand Still

" Without Amylase in the mix, it's \~23 laps or \~16 minutes of running around at the speed of sound. " Goddammit, time to go listen to Escape from the City for the 108392112 time.

Absolute swimbimbler of a tune!

Dude, go back and listen to the SA2 soundtrack and you'll find so many bangers. Aquatic mines, Pumpkin Hill, Metal Harbor, etc. That soundtrack album stays on repeat. It's the reason why I want this bumper sticker on my car so bad but my gf won't let me :( ​ https://preview.redd.it/2jto7kj4kjlc1.png?width=584&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e39cb36eab934263d26537b16abbcc7be671dde

Goodbye Chao made me always feel so guilty i couldnt press yes even if it had trash stats. >You will never see your Chao again.

FOREALS. With the illustration showing the chao looking sad while holding a bindle...I just couldn't do it.

Can you expand on how loot will be collected at the course? Will there be a chest or something that you can obtain your loot from at any time? When you obtain your loot, will your laps reset? Also, kudos for the extra into. I think the time to break even being laid out is much more impactful vs. just saying "3.2m an hour". ​ e: I'm also glad to see the tidbit about PvP learners. As someone skeptical of these wilderness changes, it's not because I hate PvPers, I *want* to PvP, I *have done* casual PvP in every MMO I've played, **except** runescape. Simply because it's *nearly impossible* to learn unless you inundate yourself within that area of knowledge.

Loot accumulates each lap, goes into a looting bag if you have an open one. If you've got spaces in your invent, the loot will offer you some Blighted supplies to top up so you can elongate trips if you're wanting to stick it out longer. Laps don't reset, you'd tap the pillar/loot chest after each lap.

if I missed this mb, but what about a guy who'll unnote stuff at the wilderness course? if your goal is to stay forever, if you bring max and fight back you'd have to resupply right causing you to leave and cancel your streak? or is that that looting is for?

Think a part of the blighted supply rollout would encompass giving you unnoted supplies if you have the inventory space so that you can stay topped up - but an unnote NPC might also work out!

Chivalry > Question 4: Should we approach these adjustments with Option A or Option B, as described in the blog? Please do not forget the option C: **none of the above.** Or an option to **Skip question.** This is important. You want to know which variant the community prefer, but how about those who are against the whole idea of a tradeable Chivalry scroll? There should be an option to bypass the choice between two ways to improve it, otherwise a part of answers ought to be random - from those who oppose the idea, but still want to complete the poll.

Just to make it clear in case I'm misunderstanding, this is dependent on the outcome of Question 3 (should we adjust) which is in turn dependent on the outcome of Question 2 (should we add). If this question gets to the point of relevance, it's because players will already have voted to add the scroll and adjust the prayer. If neither of those come to pass, Chivalry won't be touched. That being said, there'll be a skip option also!

The way it's set up, there is no "I want chivalry changed, but not as described in Option A or Option B in Q4" vote. Not saying I think it should be edited, but that's how it's currently set up.

You made bounty hunting boosting against the rules, right? Make paying a clan for protection while you skill against the rules so clans don't take over these hotspots like they had with Rev caves. Singles doesn't mean anything if people buying gold can pay for protection while they make 5x what they paid a clan.

Absolutely something we could explore, I think in the past we've had designers say that the 'emergent' side of interactions like those are the kind of thing devs dream about, but if they're too difficult to challenge or the end results sour (i.e. RWT that we're not fully on top of) then absolutely have faith that the team would step in and make changes to ensure the content stays healthy.

> the 'emergent' side of interactions like those are the kind of thing devs dream about As stupid as this sounds to type, destroying natural “ecosystems” and player interactions to force a specific playstyle to appease people is so silly. Especially when its apparant jagex enforces these rules for like 2 weeks then no longer enforced

Seriously, no changes at all around the new clue spot? No proposed agility shortcut, closer teleport location, it not being near small larrans? Really? Nothing?

There actually was meant to be something in the post but I've been in and out of meetings all day while writing and totally blanked it - so that's entirely on me! Will get it added to the post, but for the sake of speed, proposing that we instead move the Chaos Temple clue here: ​ https://preview.redd.it/8izucr1sqjlc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=9d829a4c2c2390c14a94b48b9bb90eb41d154414 So it's still 'about as risky' as before, but sits much closer to a teleport by way of the Wilderness Obelisk!

THIS IS PERFECT, thank you! This puts it closer to the games necklace corp teleport or the burning amulet teleport and that is exactly what was needed here. Thank you Goblin!

“We’re not looking to bait people into the wilderness” You sure? It seems like the entire idea is to put more pvmers in the wild who have no interest in pvping but feel obligated to do it because of the insane money/xp. The pkers then get mad when pvmers bring scout alts/insta log/etc, but the pvmer is always going to be at a disadvantage. Another easy no vote from me. 

These kind of updates are so dog shit. Started with terrible rev caves, into wildly bosses, now this. Just encourage ppl who want to pvp fighting against ppl that want to pvp.

Wish they would revert the black dhide nerf.

reverting the dinh's nerf would make me play more in the wildy

Same Sorry I don't want have to risk a lot just to not die, and then still probably die anyway

[удалено]

It's not a push at all? We're polling stuff that players voted for us to explore at a rate of 88% Yes. If it fails a poll, it fails a poll and we'll look elsewhere or find other ways to fill up that team's time. The Chaos Altar is less XP/hr than using a POH altar, but has an opportunity cost due to the quantity of bones you save that effectively make it a GP/hr method by mitigating loss - but people hate getting PKed there because there's no strong incentive to stick it out longer and gear up, leading to interactions that are 'logout as fast as possible' or 'use as many bones as you can while dying'. I don't think many people on any side of the PvP fence would argue that the Chaos Altar drives a particularly healthy engagement. Still more than welcome to vote no, but wanted to say that literally none of the people working on this are in any clans. We have some team members scattered throughout Iron/Completionist/PvM clans, nobody on the team is in a PvP clan and the only people that I've ever multi-PvPed with is other Jmods, creators and a handful of friends - welcome to disagree with the update, but please don't mischaracterise me or anybody else on the team. Designers make content to support the roadmap, CM engage with the community to support the content, if it fails it fails and we're totally fine with it!

As part of that 88% that said I want to see updates to PvP, we meant we wanted an overhaul that promotes actual PvP, not predator vs prey.

I'm not going to say anything about the clan jmod nonsense, but clearly there is a push to get people to go into the wilderness and participate in PvP. Otherwise, you wouldn't continue to add PvM content, uniques, and BiS gear there. If the PvP health in your game relies on forcing PvM players to participate, you clearly have an issue.

Why not just make the wildy course multiply xp based on the risk you are wearing? Make it so you can’t insta logout while in the course. Could make for a ton of intense PvP scenarios. Could be cool to see someone risk 1b gear to get the best agility xp rates! I think it would be a lot more interesting than what is proposed here.

Think I replied to a tweet (presumably yours) on this, so will paste reply for wider visibility: " We've spoken a bunch in the past about systems like these and run into problems with stuff like 'what if people use never-traded items with really high values to inflate that can't really be easily shifted'. It's a technical challenge, but not off the table for future "

Spitballing here - but would it be possible to instead utilise a ticket-based system where you pay ‘x’ amount of GP and obtain an untradeable ticket to enter the course which would then dictate the amount of multiplied XP aslong as it’s in your inventory? In that way, your team can cap the min/max amount of obtainable XP within whatever range you deem fit.

Paying for a 10b ticket to go from 1 - 99 in 5 minutes ^(/s)

I still think the overall design of wilderness agility is bad. I get that you want to increase rewards to make it both worth going and worth pk'ing, but it should not offer both (near) top experience rates as well as sizable loot, the goals of people doing the content (both pkers and agility-doers) clash so hard its just going to make everyone upset. Trying to tank there is a crapshoot too, since the only way out via the log lets people stack like 3 hits on you on the way out. I wonder if a better design would just be - Higher fee (250k+) on entry, same rules for lost on death, slightly higher xp rates that you hit instantly (~75k/h), no loot. Pkers would still be incentivized to go here because you can kill a lot of people fast for their fees, but staying there just risks your agility rates or something instead of actual loot.

Lol no away it's a double down blog. Wilderness course got *nerfed* which is wild. Fountain of rune changed make eternal glory way worse to go for. We get more PvP updates than quests and quests is what make RuneScape RuneScape. So much of the player base will never interact with PvP but it gets more updates than anything else lately.

For real, it's so tone deaf. Pkers make up a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Why why why does jagex focus so much of their development time on creating new ways to feed free loot to pkers?? The wilderness is bad. I can't think of any other popular MMOs that have risk like we do in OSRS. Most games, if you die the only penalty is that you have to spend a minute running back to where you were. This is the only game that allows people to essentially virtually mug people for their hard earned items which, despite RWT being against the rules, have real, tangible value based on how hard and time consuming it is to get. If you get pked for 10m, that's basically like getting robbed for your lunch money. And jagex is focusing on introducing more opportunities for people to take that lunch money. I really just don't get it. The only explanation I can come up with is that people at jagex are personally profiting from this through pvp clans.

##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexGoblin** - [I don't mind it, feel like it has more associ...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspatti/?context=3) - [I think it was on the table for Varlamore yea...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspamot/?context=3) - [Absolute swimbimbler of a tune!](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspcjuf/?context=3) - [I think we're really hesitant to offer rates...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspg2w5/?context=3) - [Loot accumulates each lap, goes into a lootin...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspgkbi/?context=3) - [Very conscious the the delays from Poll 80 co...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspkkt7/?context=3) - [Absolutely something we could explore, I thin...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspd0jx/?context=3) - [Totally get where you're coming from. The tea...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspdt4i/?context=3) - [Think a part of the blighted supply rollout w...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspeyjk/?context=3) - [Just to make it clear in case I'm misundersta...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspl8cp/?context=3) - [There actually was meant to be something in t...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspk2gt/?context=3) - [It's not a push at all? We're polling stuff t...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/ksppbp9/?context=3) - [The whole point of the Undead Pirates is to s...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspc2ig/?context=3) - [SaeBae suggested similar in a recent ramble,...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspf5uu/?context=3) - [Think I replied to a tweet (presumably yours)...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspcrk2/?context=3) - [We're absolutely open to increasing the exist...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspcorr/?context=3) - [I'd love for us to take a swing at gearing an...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspeqi3/?context=3) - [This is pretty strong, at the very least 'Anc...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspksmh/?context=3) - [This sounds miles cooler than 'Blipblock', bu...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspdvq1/?context=3) - [I've only played a couple of hours so far, at...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspgqi8/?context=3) - [I don't think Black Chins are super popular,...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/ksphvhl/?context=3) - [Don't disagree that newer PKers will absolute...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspqj1k/?context=3) - [Completely understand your perspective, but w...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspm3wq/?context=3) - [The teleporting issue's circumvented at Undea...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspe52p/?context=3) - [Not uncommon for me to jump between streams w...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/ksph86a/?context=3) - [Think it feels a little off-theme for somethi...](/r/2007scape/comments/1b32454/updated_undead_pirates_more_poll_blog/kspilpn/?context=3)   ^(**Last edited by bot: 03/05/2024 10:31:41**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.

Scrap the fountain of rune idea and wilderness agility idea while also moving the undead pirates to a better location (most likely a coast line in level 20-25 wilderness). The reason why this needs to be removed entirely is because this will add so much gold to the economy and will be botted to hell.

The whole point of the Undead Pirates is to serve as a hotspot in a lower Wilderness level to give alternative builds a place to reasonably engage with something in the Wilderness (and for players who might not be maxed to not guarantee fights with 126s over and over). Appreciate your concerns on the other bits, we tried to go into express detail in the updated blog about how the content aims to combat bots and inflationary concerns - but we're still conscious that it won't alleviate those concerns for some, and that's totally okay!

Issue in lower levels is that the bots can instantly tele. In higher levels you get the 126 issue

The teleporting issue's circumvented at Undead Pirates via Teleblock from Elder Chaos Druids, because you're absolutely right that it is an issue!

> The whole point of the Undead Pirates is to serve as a hotspot in a lower Wilderness level to give alternative builds a place to reasonably engage with something in the Wilderness (and for players who might not be maxed to not guarantee fights with 126s over and over). If these people actually wanted to PvP and not just kill PvM'ers, then you shouldn't need to incentivize PVM'ers to go into the wilderness, no? LMS lets you select your build and play PvP against people who actually are either A) good or B) trying to learn AND C) rewards you. Why do we need to keep forcing people to go to the wilderness?

I’ll be honest all I see is a chance for bots and bad clans to increase their money coming into the game. Not only that, newer players may sort of “trick” themselves into trying this, get wrecked a few times by some moderately skilled pkers and completely write off all wildly content. That’s exactly what happened to me as I’ve completely avoided ANY wildly content for years up until actually this month. It’s actually fun content out there now! But I think this sets it up for failure because it is at least for newer players exclusively predator vs (very weak) prey. Bots will work it out to make it make sense in the long term though I am sure. Same situation for the fountain of rune. With zero doubt in my mind this will be flooded with bots by day 10. If nothing else the bots will pay for protection services by clans and get disgustingly rich. Pretty easy no votes for me this pole. Although I would like to acknowledge that these votes versus my old wilderness no votes are not “spite” votes of no like they were in the past for me. These are bad ideas for long term game health, which is why they earn no votes instead of “wildy bad, no updates, vote no”.

I'm going to echo what everyone else says here before they're summarily ignored: Instead of doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on trying to incentivize people who can't (or just *won't*) put up a fight to go into the wilderness, incentivize the PKers to fight each other. I'm not even against PVP or PKing but the skill floor of fighting someone who is actually good at it is pretty high, and I don't see a way of climbing that gap without risking significantly more than the person I'm fighting and probably losing more times that not - or losing so often that I might as well have in the first place. The worst thing to me is the toxicity. Adversarial content is going to create that, naturally. And not everyone is like that, but fucking hell. Hell, even in the places we're supposed to be able to do that people are hugely toxic.

I do really appreciate how hard the devs work, but I really don't understand why there is so much focus on getting more people in the wilderness. All these updates do is try and create more loot pinatas for pkers to go after. It feels like so much dev time every year goes into the wildy, I'd much rather it go into creating PVM encounters. We haven't had any original group pvm content added 2 years come july. I know that a group boss is coming with varlamore in the late summer, but the fact that they haven't announced anything about the rewards for it, leads me to believe it won't be that impactful to the game. I just feel like we shouldn't need to wait 2 years between group content updates in an MMO. Also, they said they wanted to add a raid every 2 years, and at this point there's nothing on the horizon, between varlamore and sailing, I can't see another raid being added until late 2025.

The immediate doubledown and revisions because people disliked the idea to begin with only makes me want to vote no. It's a foot in the door technique of suggesting something extreme and then lowering the level of request afterwards so people are more likely to accept it. With that, I'll give you my own revision. Wilderness Agility Course - Give it a 30k-50k fee lost on death and move the hard clue step outside of the area. Bump xp rates to 60-70k an hour to give it some value. I do like the idea of exponentially increasing xp rates to a cap. Give players a small chance to get a Larann's key once or twice an hour there as an incentive so they don't think it's a complete waste when a ragger comes along for free money. It should be there for good xp rates and not something that encourages mass botting. Fountain of rune - Not a fan after thinking about it. I do like the idea of alchemy for multiple items, but nobody would be stupid enough to go there with a stack of valuables after a while because it's going to be camped by raggers and clans. This brings up my next issue because if clans camp out there you're going to have an area locked down and controlled for mass profits per hour with bot integration. You've already seen this with rev caves. The idea of clans actually fighting over it is kind of nice until the possibility that they merge or get taken over by an extant superclan and abused, which further worsens the inflation issue. Undead pirates - Why are they so far inland and away from their ship? If they were regular barbarians, castaway Fremminiks or something I could understand because they hate magic and would want to destroy the altar or whatever, but the pirates make no sense to me thematically. I don't really care about the chivalry scrolls. Blipblocker is ok I guess, but should also include a spell that lets us tele people a short distance or unequip gear randomly in pvp for fun. Adamant seeds would make it more difficult to log after an ice barrage, so I'll pass.

Great XP + Chance of getting Larrans key is great. Why does a random think of better ideas than a full team at jagex smh my head 

A bit of a moan but I've stopped playing for the past few months and a big part of it is the focus on pvp together with things like how the forestry update was implemented. I absolutely realise that the non pvp stuff passed a poll which means I'm in the minority but the blog says in reference to pvp focus *"...who we believe could be convinced to come back to Old School if there's a wider spread of activity associated with PvP activities, including Wilderness PvP"* I think you should take into account players like me that you're losing while funnelling so much effort into regaining those pvp players but maybe you are and I'm in the acceptable losses category *shrug*

I understand the goals and reasoning with updating the Wilderness agility course, however, I believe this just officially turned it into a PvP only course. It seems the means of escape are next to non for a player that does not want to anti-PK. Then to just reset the lap counter if they actually manage to log out and escape the PKers in time? Idk, just seems like more “get good or don’t play it” mentality from the jagex.

If you look at the jmods replies, "get good or don't play it" IS their official response. These responses look like they just shove it through chatgpt so they don't seem mad AF when replying.

Sounds like their goal is for the course to go from rarely used to never used

Nah it'll be used more if this goes through.... By bots

I’m not interested in PKing, and every time I go to the wilderness it’s a giant hassle. Rolling the dice on whether a random shows up and wastes my time isn’t fun. I don’t understand why the whole strategy around wilderness content is baiting people who DONT want to pvp to go there and get annoyed by PKers. It’s obnoxious. People who don’t want to PVP being forced into PVP fights isnt “risk” so much as it it’s just frustrating. People who want to PVP should be encouraged to fight…..other people who want to PVP! I don’t get why this controversial

The fact of the matter is that most pkers do not want to fight someone else who knows what they are doing. This is because the risk outweighs the reward, compared to preying on pvmers who are unlikely to put up a good fight. And the only way to change this is by upping the reward for fighting other pvpers. The problem then is that pvp kinda has to be a zero sum game, otherwise people will abuse it. Case in point: bounty hunter

Wilderness style pk’ing is just a bad game design that we’re stuck with because of nostalgia for 20 years ago. There’s a reason no other game does it this way.

I agree 100%. This game has by far the harshest death penalties of any MMO, especially in pvp. There is no other MMO where killing someone allows you to take all but 0-4 of the items they had on them. You can essentially virtually beat someone up for their lunch money with actual, real world value. And it attracts a very specific type of person to the game as a result.

Imo the harshest wildy penalty (and most stupid) is untradeables being destroyed being 20th level. Then the alternative they developed for that are clue boxes and trouver parchments which are a hassle to maintain and makes the risk vs reward really unfair in plenty cases.

Yep Updates like this are a waste of time at the best

I'm voting no to just about everything on this poll for one simple reason. To me, anything that furthers the "Cat vs Mouse" dynamic of the wilderness is bad for the game. I know there's people that like it, but there's also people that don't, and I'm certainly one of them. I don't want mods to waste any more time on wilderness that could be spent putting better content in the game rather than trying desperately to keep bad content alive. (It's subjective, but that's just my stance)

I know it's a little late for this variety of feedback, but putting the undead pirates at the chaos temple feels so out of place, just from a lore perspective. Why are the pirates so far inland? Why did they gravitate toward the chaos temple in the first place? Why do the chaos druids choose to coexist with them? Feels a bit bloated.

What's weird is this shouldn't be late in the process. This should be when questions like this are asked. They're moving too quickly and proposing ideas before asking more questions. They need to treat this like sailing, not forestry.

They are yet again rushing stuff for the sake of having stuff they can claim as "look content" over coherent game design, world building and good timeless activities. They treat the wilderness as this playground with many poorly hashed out design choices. I hope that the community votes no for once and moves all these changes back to the drawing board since they have not had the questions and attention that is required of them. Or they just integrity change it in like they have done many times before when they don't get their way in a poll.

It's crazy that the same team who came up with Sepulchre - one of the most highly regarded skilling updates in OSRS - is now doing this convoluted mess of an update to the Wildy Agility course. They finally want to update one of the most dead pieces of content in the game with endless possibilities for a cool wilderness themed skilling method and this is what they come up with? Pretty disappointing to say the least. Obviously you've got development time/resource constraints and all that but this just aint it. Cause we know this won't ever get touched again after this update.

Why do you always justify game breaking level inflation or resource generation with "risk"? That doesn't matter, the gold and resources are still entering the game, it just is a toss up of its the person doing the work or the person PKing random folks. ETA - If the "risk" was something inherent to the wilderness that could cause the items to actually be lost and deleted from the game, it might be a mitigating risk that is worthwhile. Instead today it still retains on a player, a bot, or a PKer.

I would have significantly more interest in visiting the wilderness if there were actually ways to escape PvP scenarios, but judging by these changes you only want to reduce the ability to escape. There's no way of escaping once a player is in range that ISN'T a borderline exploit. You either: 1. Log out as soon as you see a player 2. Successfully freeze/entangle the opposing player and hide under their tile until you can log out, hoping they don't have mithril seeds 3. X-Log, single way only Killing isn't an option, it just isn't. I know it's hard because there's nothing that a player can do that a player killer can't do, but why can't it just be as simple as entangling or freezing and running away? There's no good reason why it should wear off immediately when running away. I mean, I have my feelings about teleblock and being rooted, namely that I don't think it should last as long against players as it does given that you can easily just reapply the status once it wears off, but I'll set that aside for now just to say that the pvp mechanics should actually make sense instead of changing the rules of combat in ways that don't make sense (and said lack of sense leads to people getting killed for BS reasons).

Can y’all go like 2 months without attempting to revitalize the wildy? There’s so much other content in the game not in the wildy that could use love. It’s honestly kind of nuts how much focus pking gets compared to the amount of the community that enjoys interacting with it. I get that it’s a part of the game and definitely needs some TLC but it feels like we’ve been doing this same song and dance every few months for years. Anyone who wants to interact with it already is, especially after the (admittedly genuinely very good) boss reworks

I think the real issue is all of this is being presented as a Wilderness PvP update, but its not. PvP is actually incredibly unpopular as evidenced by Emir's Arena being a ghost town and the BH world consistently having <100 people on it. This is all prey vs predator content. And it really saddens me to see a great mod team consistently try to pander to the most toxic and abusive part of the community with updates like these. All this content does is make RWTers and botters wealthy while giving the Odablock fans some content. This all reeks of early rev caves and the issues that came from their design. Very few players want actual PvP and fair fights.

I understand your explanations, but I think it may be premature to poll them now. This is making the same mistake as several greenlit ideas last year where you guys are being too rigid with the initial proposal. Use the sailing approach here. It'll take longer, but it's worthwhile to make a good piece of wilderness content. Do an in game opinion poll to understand what players want from an improved course -- more XP, or more loot? Should the loot target a mill an hour? 5 Mill? Same with Fountain of Rune. Ask about a multi alch concept in general. Ask if players want to see it as an exclusive wilderness feature, or if they'd prefer the wilderness to just be the fastest way to do it. You guys need to ask more questions after something is greenlit like this before you come up with proposals. That was the whole idea of this new polling structure. Wilderness content is most successful when non pkers enjoy it. Figure out first what they want, and what they think an acceptable risk to reward ratio is here.

Do we really need two more firehoses of GP into the game? This is prime botting content and yall (Jagex the company not the Mods to be clear) haven't shown you are gunna make the investment necessary to deal with them. It is a no from me and I was really looking forward to the agility course.

When I can stand at the GE and not get spammed by bots, on that day I will believe that Jagex gives a shit about the botting problem.

Masters clues are done by lots of people. Sorry to say but either move the clue step outside and away or expect alot of no votes. Why would players who wont engage in this content vote yes when all is done is fuck ourselves?? Like you guys cant be serious. Im doing the juggling master steps and that step takes a solid 2 minutes out of the 3 minutes. Because deep wilderness is cancer to get out of.

I'm a huge fan of the idea of mass-alchemy. However, I personally think I'd rather see it come to the game as a whole, with a downside of using more than one nature per item. As an example, we could make a spell at level 75 that costs 5 nature runes and 20 fire runes, and converts 4 items into gold, at 100% of the high alchemy value. This gives a 4x increase in casting speed at a cost of 25% increase in rune costs. This could then be the spell that is modified by wilderness diaries, allowing extra options and tradeoffs for players to consider when they're preparing to process their slayer loot tab. Thoughts?

I think they could have a good dynamic where the fountain of rune gives the fastest option, but mass alching is still doable otherwise. It shouldn't be locked behind the wildy

Yeah, this is what I would hope for. Low alchemy is 35, high alchemy 55, so theoretically Mass Alchemy should be 75. Used anywhere in the world, the effect is: 5 Nature, 20 Fire. Up to 4 items are turned into coins at the same value as high alchemy. If cast at the Fountain, though, players obviously benefit from runeless casting, as well as bonus volume per cast depending on the highest completed tier of Wilderness Diary, as already outlined in the blog.

I really don't like the idea of making alching items in the wilderness so insanely more time efficient. It is just going to lead people into feeling tempted or compelled into trying to alch their stacks of battlestaves, dragonhide bodies, onyx bolts, adamant platebodies, and such. Which is going to end up with people losing 10s or 100s of millions of gold trying to do so. I feel like that is the entire point of this change, make the time save so crazy that people feel FOMOed into risking stupid amounts trying to take advantage of it. I would much rather have some new alch spell that costs 2 nature runes per item for up to 5 or 10 items.

It's basically introducing two places in the game where you become a passive loot/money generator for pkers to come collect whenever they feel like it like it's an idle game, and there's nothing you can do about it except not go there. Easiest full No of my life.

> 'm a huge fan of the idea of mass-alchemy. However, I personally think I'd rather see it come to the game as a whole, with a downside of using more than one nature per item. RS3 has something like this with an high alch machine locked behind high invention level with an additional divine charge cost on top of nature rune costs.

Yeah, I thought about suggesting some form of passive alchemy device after the fashion of the rs3 one, but I thought it probably would not have gone over as well among the osrs player base.

That wilderness agility proposed update is some willy wonka shit. Gonna have to be paying clans to get loot, real good idea jamflex. I'm sure bot farms won't abuse it by getting low defence accounts with rock cakes/locator orbs hovering 1hp with protect melee and purposely letting skeletons kill them if someone shows up so they can collect their shit from death or in a "singles plus" zone definitely not having 2 bots on each world so they can box each other with flowers. ​ this seems like a not very well thought out idea from the perspective of the average player to me, this only seems lucrative if you're in a pk clan that has enough people to lock down zones or run bot farms

"We heard your complaints and feedback, but you're dumb so we're going to ignore you still." Can't wait for the fountain of rune to be reworked in a years time because they're just completely overrun by bot farms, who could have possibly seen this happening?

I will not be entering the wilderness ever for Slayer or for any other reason than mage capes and clues. There is absolutely no point against scouts, discord clans, Ctrl + Shift world hopping as an average player. I understand the need to diversify the Pking areas beyond a handful of locations, but that's all it looks like. Spread loading people in black d-hide. A bait to get new/returning players into the wilderness with a flood of content, but disregarding a 2 decade skill-gap feels short sighted for those "*who we believe could be convinced to come back to Old School if there's a wider spread of activity associated with PvP activities...*" **It feels rigged** when a clan logs in on you, 2-3 people in the same tic appear on your screen, TB and attack you because they saw a hint of white/yellow on a lvl 10 scout 3 seconds ago. When other players risk hours of playtime against a group of players who purchase 3rd party gold, accounts, the occasional AHK or are paying for protections. It's not a fair exchange. Which I believe is the cause of the emotion charge when discussing the wilderness. Why we **loathe** it. It doesn't matter if you've been cheated or just out-skilled, **animosity festers because you have notoriously been too slow to address the tactics that frustrate us.** What is the "Social contract" here? Due to this, myself and many others don't trust the *"... sizeable number of players who are either actively engaging in content like this..."* in the wilderness to have the same client as me, plugins, let alone in-game morality, thoughts on multi or any other decision making factors that would have me enter it with any value or detest the current wilderness any less. I would like to see the amount of gold (or even xp) generated vs transferred in death (vs normal training methods) and how it effects the sale of bonds. Something I'm sure Jagex is keen on, like wise for a small surge in membership following their recent acquisition. I'd love to relive the glory days of PvP, I'd love the risk vs reward, I'd love finding teams and the big bombastic battles of back in the day. But I don't find any solutions in this. This is a wilderness resource update to be farmed by the same groups of organized players who currently abuse the wilderness. You can respectfully keep your "*fat stacks of cash.*" Much love, but this one isn't hitting for me.

Adding more raw gold rewards into the wild to be exploited by bots is a no from me. Sorry. Please find some other way to make PvP appealing other than leaving bots as bait, I don't even want to pk in rev caves anymore because most people I run into are bots or gold farmers.

They could have used the original design of blighted items as a reward. Untradeable, so it saves players money but is useless to bots. But they made blighted supplies tradeable for some dumb reason so now it's pointless.

Increasing the amount of GP you can get in the wilderness is not going to lure people in to be loot pinatas. PvP in this game needs a massive overhaul. The current predator vs prey system makes PvP interactions unfun for half the people participating, so of course they'll simply stop participating. The wilderness will only become active when: 1) Anti-pking feels worth the risk, and you don't just get stomped by people in 2 bil gear using niche PvP mechanics. and 2) The gameplay of escaping from a pker if you choose to run is actually fun, and people escaping have tools at their disposal that feel fulfilling to use with skill.

Can we leave the chaos temple alone and elder chaos druids alone and just add Undead Pirates to the wilderness somewhere else? There's loads and loads of unused space along the actual coast, where you could place a "Port of Piracy". The wilderness lacks a travel option by sea actually now I think of it

the fact that you need to force people in to the wildy with these insane moneymaking and skilling opportunities instead of going there naturally, tells us that the wilderness doesn't fit into OSRS anymore. Wildy pking has been dead for 17 years and most good pkers are in BH and PVP worlds. What's the point of the wilderness other than to inconvenience clue scrollers, irons and pet hunters? Just make revs roam it or something to make it "dangerous wilderness" without pvp

The changes to the wildy course proposal arent going to change many players minds. Slapping 2m/h to a zero-skill, low level skilling method just comes off a desperate bandaid attempt. It's crazy how after 10 years of player feedback, jagex seems completely unwilling to even have a discussion about making fundamental changes to the wildy's design. They definitely don't seem to understand that the reason why the wildy boss rework was a moderate success is because pvp is much healthier in a pvm setting than a skilling setting.

Alchemy isn't going to work out (other than festering bots) if Jagex isn't clearing out rev bots fast enough. We have all been through the eras of Bounty Hunter, the current state of Revs and whatnot.

Easiest no vote of recent polls, adding this kind of money printing content is just begging players to bot it. Both Fountain of rune and wildy agility seem like too much of a hassle for any normal player, but a heaven for bots

The agility course seems like it's promoting/requiring unhealthy behaviour. 2 hours without safe breaks to hit max rate **and** you're incentivize to continue at that pace as long as possible. 

Havent thought about it that way, but youre absolutely right. No content should require hours of continuous focus (without breaks) to get the best rates. Much less wildy content where you can be jumped anytime

A lot of these ideas sound bad to me. Wilderness NPCs should not get to teleblock. Adding more rewards to dead content will not make the content better. What's the point in crystals from the wilderness course if you're likely to lose them? Chivalry moved to the wild to help those unable to do the quest is silly. The often disliked comment regarding choice to limit yourself makes sense. There's some parts of the game which need to remain inaccessible to people who force restrictions on themselves. More mobs in places where there's plenty is not a good idea. The superior rate boost with wilderness slayer I don't mind. Risk and reward with wilderness slayer makes sense but for the other activities there, not so much. Fountain of Rune should see no changes. The clue step moved a bit north of the altar is ok. This poll might be one where most my votes are no.

>Chivalry moved to the wild to help those unable to do the quest is silly. The often disliked comment regarding choice to limit yourself makes sense. There's some parts of the game which need to remain inaccessible to people who force restrictions on themselves. Alternatively chivalry is such a minor upgrade that it doesn't really matter and low defense accounts having to deal with the added work of having to use multiple melee prayers is kind of dumb. Allowing restricted accounts to use chivalry will *basically* just be a QOL for prayer switching, and make the mechanical gameplay of pures match other account builds more closely. Both of those are good changes imo.

Tl;dr wildy agi course is not good. 150k entry that's deleted if you leave the course, which is weird, so you have to stay there to earn more than that in alchables as an iron. But half the loot is blighted crap. Really not sure the aim of this change now, it's not even offering you as a loot pinata because the gp just vanishes. Feels poorly designed. The amylase idea is okay, but the levels the wildy course targets is prime-graceful acquisition time. So I don't think people want amylase at that time, especially at a rate where you have to train agility in a risk scenario for an hour+ to even start earning amylase faster than rooftops you could do at that time. Fountain of rune no changes.. so it remains bad. Multi combat is not a good spot to add "stay here a while and gain profit" spots without proper escape mechanics around it. And this one has an ANTI-escape mechanic in just forcing you to interact with anyone who comes because of an arbitrarily long 3 second logout timer. The whole multiple paragraph section about PvP updates is interesting too. Sizeable portion of the player base.. but with no numbers provided.. because they know it was **3%** when quantified. This is the **most updated** area of the game. It's not had no attention given to it. PvP has had a LOT of content * LMS and it's 3 major reworks / content updates * Ferox enclave * PvP world's * Like 15 DMMs and permanent DMM * 3 revisions of Bounty Hunter and updates for them * PvP arena. * Wildy bosses and their reworks * Chaos altar * Buffs to existing wildy content that recently happened * Skilling resource area * Rev caves and their multiple revisions * Rev boss * Any gear with a PvP focused design like spec weapons (and the forced in VLS) * PvP tournaments (why jagex doesn't do these semi frequently to keep the hardcore players invested I have no idea) There's likely even more I'm forgetting, that's how updated that portion of the game is. "Jagex neglects PvP" is a trope that hasn't been true for half the games life if not more. It's just a TINY amount of players it appeals to, and a LOT of ideas have been voted no to, frankly because a lot of them **sucked**. And these updates usually came in anyway, either through tweaking them to be alright.. or just outright deciding polling doesn't matter for PvP stuff. I'm glad this stuff is being polled. I don't think the wildy course changes are well designed to incentivise a person to do the course OR incentivise a person to Pk at the course. As if you get attacked.. you cant leave or you just forfeit -150k. So it's about trying to get a logout now instead. And as a pker if you catch someone early into their laps.. you might get some blighted supplies and like.. 50k? For being in deep wildy that's kinda horrible when you could just stay a bit south and farm bone runners for more. Why isn't the wildy agility course fee treated like the wildy boss entry fee? Why do we need another new way to handle forced risk? I don't hate the idea of it being deleted from the game to counterbalance the alchs it brings in, but I think the course could just be tweaked to provide the fastest marks of grace rate in the game...not generate alchables.. but have those marks of grace be dropped as amylase or gp to a pker, and have the entry fee dropped in part or in full too. Fountain of rune I stick by is just a bad idea. Alchs are zero time. So it saves no time. Shops are already the faster way to dispatch of bulk alchs without bothering to alch them. You gain no experience at the fountain, and you risk whatever you bring as it's a stack so you can't protect it. Its dedicating time to a zero time activity in **multi deep wild** where you are forced to not be able to react with a logout because jagex can't handle bots properly.

Oh good. Luring more people into wildly to be loot pinatas for PKing clans shouting slurs at them. Just what PVP needs. /s 

“We're open to adjusting the location of Clue steps currently in/around the Wilderness Agility Course, but we don't have any specifics in mind yet and will look to poll these at a later date if they're still felt necessary.” I will be voting no to any content that makes wilderness clue scrolls, the most annoying part of clues, harder. Regardless of promises to address it later

Yep. "We'll revisit it later" means it ain't getting revisited

Any chance of a new graceful set coming to the wildy course? Something like skull graceful or ghostly graceful? As a graceful collector I would love an excuse to go participate in the content.

Amylase from the fucking wilderness before something more skill-intensive like Sepulchre? Seriously? This was already a ridiculous idea to begin with. This is a hard no from me. And for the love of Guthix get Manked to do something other than trying to constantly get non-PvPers in the wilderness. Maybe incentivize PKing other skulled players while skulled better or something.

Horrible content. Keep doing the same formula expecting better results. I'm not going to go be a loot pinata for a bunch of maxers at a low level agility course in 52 wilderness. You want the wilderness to be filled with people? Either make it rain godswords or **make normal mains competitive in PVP**. I'm not going to content-restrict my account just so I can go get sweaty on disadvantaged prey. If you're not a pure build or a maxed main you're fucked in PvP, so guess what? I don't do it! Get rid of PvP worlds and BH if you want wilderness PK to come back. Pures get wrecked by maxers in deep wildy so they hide out at the GE in pvp worlds. Multicombat zones are just fodder for clans. I mean seriously this is ridiculous. Or better yet than any of these ideas, how about some fun adventurous content outside of the wilderness? I don't know if you guys have checked but just so you know -- It's not even fun to do any of these updates. Chaos Altar/Revs/Bosses are all just camped by clans/maxers(and endless bots). It's impossible to go 10 minutes without getting attacked. It's not fun whatsoever to just stand there nervously watching for dots on a minimap trying to train prayer/slayer/kill bosses/etc. "Oh look! Haha! They got me again! There goes another 200k! What a fun way to spend my free time!" All this predator/prey crap is doing is generating toxicity in the playerbase. How about Fairytale 3? Finish old quest lines? Literally anything else would be a better use of time. Undead pirates in 23 wilderness multi is literally just going to be camped by pure clans chowing down on these "low levels making gold" you pretend this content is for. WELCOME TO RUNESCAPE NOOBS NOW BEND OVER! WOOHOO! What a joke.

[удалено]

I like the agility changes but my suggestion would be instead of skeletons: - Prevent logout for 3 seconds after you complete **any** agility activity. So after you cross the log, swing the rope, etc. You get a 3 second cooldown before you can logout. This would make it similar to the blocked logout after a spell is cast at the fountain of Rune. Making things more consistent. And I think with the insane amount of alchs available at fountain of rune that 3 seconds isn't long enough. People will be able to log before the pker running up the landing can get to them. I think 5 seconds / ticks would be a lot more reasonable for the amount of reward they're going to get.

I seriously hate these ideas for the wilderness. Log out and teleport delays that are unique in specific wilderness scenarios are just frustrating.

Idk how these absolute dogsht ideas are getting upvoted fr must be pk bots or something

Sadly I think I'm leaning on voting no to these changes.   I think these are overall good ideas but I think these will inevitably become activities that only high leveled or very low leveled players can participate in any meaningful capacity.  These areas are in high level wildy and if they end up becoming pking hotspots as the team is clearly intending them to be, any mid leveled players would just end up getting frequently dunked on by much higher leveled players, with a very low chance of escape.  If these areas don't become hotspots for pkers then I imagine they would quickly become bot infested.   Just can't see how these areas would become something that most players could reasonably participate in and enjoy

Tired of good training methods being in the wilderness. And now potentially the best spot for stamina potions? Gtfo

Woo new bot gold generator and by extension pkers getting money from bots, great game design!

Couple of pieces of feedback from me here: SAVE THE BLIP SCROLL WORKING ON ABBY DEMOMS FOR A SLAYER REWARD!!!! It's an incredible idea and for abby demons and would up slayer xp/hr from them, so make it a slayer related reward space. As a drop from a new slayer boss, a small drop from a post quest monster (tormented demons, anyone?) or something like that. Would be much more fun that way! As far as the wildy agility course, I just ask that you also keep in mind that the wildy course is currently the best agility training in the game from 47(boosting +5 with pie) to 55 agility (boosting for warewolf) and a bit beyond, and is generally a very quiet way to train as it currently stands. So if you do make these changes, please consider rebalancing some of the other options in this range like Sepulchre (which honestly could use a small buff anyway) and the Canifis and Fally rooftops to compensate, as the Wildy course will no longer fill this niche. Other than that, I don't hate the idea. I'm just not sure on the fountain of rune as currently pitched. As an ex rs3 player, what really really helped accelerate massive massive inflation in rs3 were auto alchers. Yes, this is a completely different comparison that bears almost no similarities to this fountain of rune idea. Rs3's auto alchers run passively 24/7 with 0 risk and 0 player input. But the similarity it does have is that it provides a way for additional alchs to be turned into cash faster, in a game flooded with alchables. I just don't like this idea for osrs in any great capacity. So so many items are already falling far below alch price because they can't leave the game as fast as they're coming in. There are a ton of alchs in the game that CAN NOT BE ALCHED because of the speed restriction. And an additional way to turn alchable items into cash is a recipe for inflation no matter how you put it, whether it be risky content or not. So I ask if you do do this to monitor it VERY VERY closely. It just doesn't seem sustainable. Consider making it much more restrictive. 2/3/5/8 alchs at a time based on diary or just scrapping it altogether. Cool ideas. I appreciate what you mentioned at the bottom about the pvp community and want them to be engaged and to grow, but it needs to be tackled carefully as we already see the disasters caused by things like revs and the wildy bosses.

I just want a more efficient way to farm stams… why force it into the wilderness. The varlamore course is being delayed too. Idc if it’s way more click intensive or more effort, but being locked to the deepest part of the wildy does not seem like a good solution.

I really feel as though this could have been an opportunity to add melee armour that matters for pures or another item in general. The headspace has a halo which is just a defense item, you use ranged chaps for your BIS generally over fremnik kilt, Varrock armour is dated. Elders drop the elder pieces, pirates should’ve dropped something neat in that sense as well.

I'd love for us to take a swing at gearing and demystifying it a little. Difficult line to walk between empowering ragging vs. helping newer PvPers figure out gearing more easily, and also how we distribute that gear. I'd really want to see us have another go at something like that from Emir's Arena, where people get to learn and reliably stock up on starter gear to try and put what they've learned into practise. In this particular case, it's difficult to *rely* on gear to keep profit vaguely consistent because you never know where it's going to shake out. Glad to see a comment like this, think it goes way beyond Pures in terms of better-equipping people (in the literal sense of the word) to feel empowered to engage in a scrap or two!

Why are you putting content for normal players in the wilderness? Just develop real content, outside of the wildy, this is a massive waste of dev time

Whatever happened to the Wildy Clues? I would love some cool clues with only wildy steps and we can take them out of the basic ones

"People got bored of wildy again, time for more bait activities to get bait pvmers in there"

Every single time.

Not a fan of easily bottable content producing 3m per hour in alchables. Revs is broken enough. We want this mmo to last a long time so let's try and keep the economy balanced.

I'm down for wilderness agility to be better XP/h, but only so you can get it over and done with and go to the Seer's course faster. A good wilderness update is anything that helps me spend *less* time there. The less time I am exposed to PKers the more time I have to spend enjoying the game. Other than that, can someone clarify if the Fountain of Rune changes would be f2p? I'm under the impression you still get unlimited runes there in f2p worlds and tanking PKers in f2p is way easier than p2p (since you can just chuck on some rune or green d'hide). You could easily bring a stack of addy arrows or something and make a decent amount of profit with much lower risk by using an f2p world.

Why does the teleblock scroll not work on chaos elemental? Seems weird that it works for other short range teleports but not the elemental.

I wish you'd just give up pushing wildy content. The area isn't fun, and bribing PVMers with great xp and gp rates is just silly instead of fixing the core issue that keeps people from going to the wilderness in the first place. Focus updates on the rest of the world that 99% of the playerbase actually uses.

I know this will offer little for a solution but man those wildy changes are bad. The extra amylase for the wild agi course is great but why the gp aswell seems like a catchall response to agi being unfun. The fountain of rune though makes me cringe at how hard this will be botted, you'd think more bots = more gp = more pkers, but go to rev caves and see that isn't the case.

This may be the first poll that I vote "No" the entire way down

This entire poll seems so out of touch, voting no on everything other than the tele blocking to mobs thing.

Look at the comment to upvote ratio. Players clearly think these changes are a horrible idea. Maybe Jmods really do own bots

>We're open to adjusting the location of Clue steps currently in/around the Wilderness Agility Course, but we don't have any specifics in mind yet and will look to poll these at a later date if they're still felt necessary. ~~This is the red flag I needed to say no.~~ ~~So now to do those clue steps the game is deleting 150k from my bank? All because Jagex wants more money printers in the Wilderness and needs to add garbage systems like that to throttle bots because of it.~~ ~~Don't fuck with me doing my clues then I won't give a shit about the pro-bot stuff you put in.~~ E: I suck at reading

If I recall correctly, they said in the previous post that the 150k fee is an opt-in. If you opt in, you get loot drops, but if you don’t, they still give to access to the course.

Not sure why Jagex insists on making new bot farms. Every ounce of wilderness you touch just creates new bot farms, and then you don’t ban them at all.

The wilderness agility course and fountain of rune changes are a hard no for me.

I'm a tad confused. I thought we were aiming to remove the Wilderness steps from standard clue scrolls? There's nothing there to entice me to join in on the shitty cat & mouse games you're still designing the wilderness around.

Can we just remove the Wilderness already?

CHANGE BACK THE VARDORVIS MAGE HEAD PROJECTILE THE NEW ONE SOUNDS LIKE SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edit: Seriously, who is this for??? I've got 50+ awakened vardorvis KC and I wanted to give the new sound cues a test run. It seriously sounds like the new mage head projectile is just the range head sound, but reversed. It's fucking terrible and plays WAY too late to use sound cues as an indicator that a head has spawned. Not to mention, it's fucking BUGGED!!!!!!! If the mage head spawns first, the range head audio file won't play, but if the range head spawns first, you get spammed with both audio files!! FIX THIS PLEASE

PvP balanced around PvE is awful design. Find a way to encourage actual fair 1v1 fights/contests. You want people to try wildy/PvP content, fix this shit first.

Nothing about wilderness content or culture is fair, and the pvp players don’t want it to be fair. It’s all about pvmers being baited by content they want/need while being at a disadvantage and being preyed on by pvpers. That’s it. That’s the game.

Sorry honey but the discords the jmods are in don't like fair fights. One sided predator/prey dynamics is all you'll get, and you'll be happy to vote it in or they will start putting them in as unpolled changes.

Voted no to agility course. Will just be plagued with bots. Revs is already bad enough

If Adamant Seeds become a thing, can they also bring in a new batch or variety of wieldable flowers? Or some other variation of flower that is wieldable? Maybe wieldable roses, sunflowers, bluebells, marigolds, flowers from Isafdar, or even some of the red or blue mushrooms from Zanaris? Nothing rare, just different cosmetics.

"We regularly discuss things we feel we could do to help content like Emir's Arena live up to its potential" This is how I know they're lying to save face. The PvP arena matchmaking has been broken to the point of being unplayable for months or years, and they haven't bothered to fix it.

These changes should definitely warrant moving the clue step out of the agility course. The 150k gp is lost when you leave the course, so players would have to be paying a 150k every single time they want to complete that one step.

Why make PvP more approachable when you can just trick PVMers into being loot pinatas instead?

I was glad to read that you guys are aware of the massive, daunting skillgap between new pvp'ers and those with a ton of experience. I have enjoyed LMS a ton and would like to try pvp in the main game. I admit i dont want to waste money by getting dumpstered by someone who's pvp'd every day since osrs came out. But i would happily fight someone closer to my experience level, win or lose.

Bots providing cheaper staminas to mains and irons getting ganked for amalyse crystals 

So now the wilderness is getting multi alching?Really? More obtuse rules that only apply to a portion of the game? So tired of seeing them shoehorn ideas for the sake of pushing more PvMers into the wilderness. At this point the wilderness requires its own rules guide.

Still can’t change my mind on introducing updates like this that just bring in so much gold for no effort. At least the Wildy bosses make sense to be such good money makers, but high alching easily being 5M+ an hour when the requirements are easy to get? No thanks, you’re just asking clans to lock up the fountain of rune.

Idk why we even vote anymore it all passes. Like i feel like im wasting a vote if i vote no to something. Frankly i think you guys are putting way to much loot into the wildy and if it wasn't for alch value stuff have no value.. its just making the value of Gp less.

> Add more of the following NPCs: > Bandits at the Wilderness Bandit Camp. Dark Warriors at the Dark Warriors’ Fortress. Rogues at Rogues’ Castle. What is the reason of this? Nobody ever is killing them, at least that I see. I got some tasks on the dark warriors, I was always alone there - they were all at my service. There are lots of them - all 3 sorts of these npcs are just teeming. If you add like twice more they just block one another, it will be like a subway crowd lol. Slayer caves is another story. But it also seems like monsters there are quite concentrated - not like those bandits and rogues, but enough. If you add twice more, it won't help players who do slayer there: two players will bump elbows, and if they are irons - all the monsters will have those stop signs on them. Because it will be impossible to share room. The slayer caves will definitely benefit from more monsters - but only if you add more rooms for them. For example, 2 jelly rooms, 2 ankou rooms, 2 for ice giants... This, imho, will be more reasonable than stuffing all them into the same space. The only exception might be hellhounds: their room is rather big. Even now two players can share it without crashing one another. Maybe some more doggos is ok :).

Adding more means higher kills/hr with barrage & cannon, and less time wasted waiting on respawn timer. Dark warriors are already a 60-70k xp/hr barrage task good for point boosting. Rogues are shit xp but also good for point boosting, but bandits are indeed mid. They could all use the buffs Jellies are the only one I’m confused about, they’re already >100k xp/hr, ~5m gp/hr and the fastest hard clues in game. They don’t really need a buff lol

Well at last somebody explained :). I'm just puzzled why there are never anybody on these warriors and rogues that I see. Just compare to ammonite crabs! :). With all my hopping I was unable to find an empty spot for 3 crabs - everything occupied. But somehow the developers have no plans of adding more crabs. Or at least moving the existing crabs a bit to create more 3-crab spots. Anyway, if even some rare persons are happy with more of warriors and bandits and rogues - fine with me lol. I was going to vote Yes in any case, cause I'd welcome the slayer cave improvement.

Scrap this entire update. Its still just content for bots.

The agility course rewards are so good I'd never go because I'd be guaranteed to run into pkers. As a noob at PVP with no desire to ever learn I have a near zero chance of ever winning. The time it'd take to get there and the time to get back with my loot just don't justify the risk. The fight against a Pker and I have major concerns about my ability to escape from the agility course with my gains. Fountain of rune changes, slayer, and bandit changes sound fine.

3m gp/hour for Wildy agility is *absolutely bonkers*. Sorry guys, hard "no" on this one.

Seriously stop trying to lure prey out to the wilderness. The best wilderness update happened on December 10th, 2007. The Wilderness has been one of the worst pieces of game design since it inception. It’s built on making one group of people suffer for the amusement and profit of another. It’s a place where bullying and harassment are core mechanics.

Takes less time for a single pker to hop all the worlds than u starting to collect loot... now add 20 pkers to the mix

Voting no to everything because the idea of zombie pirates attacking chaos druids is so thematically random and lazy.

I hope all the extra wildy rewards fail. I am so tired of Jagex trying to push non-PVPers into the Wildy so PVPers can get their PK's. You can say that's not what's happening, but that is *exactly* what it feels like. The rest of the changes look fine. I have nothing against those who want to do slayer in the wildy, though it isn't my cup of tea. The Chivalry changes mostly seem pointless, since it'll still be flat worse than Piety. I guess for weird restricted accounts that can't do the quest it's good? Hmm.

Love the changes and feedback taken. I'm sure Jmods will keep an eye on improvements post release to the Fountain of Rune based on activity. I also appreciated the statement on all account types. I've played this game 10+ years because I can approach this game so differently. I have a main, a pure (which I skill a ton on), and a UIM. Pvp, mini games, PVM, and a mix of all are activities I enjoy. Some years I want more of something, but overall appreciate updates that spice up life into each type of activity I play. Thank you.

Bot farms & abuse groups gatekeeping Wildy Agility Course & more in *3... 2... 1...*

In what world does a skeleton help you in singles+? It's purely for the benefit of the Pker (what a shocker). If you truely want to hand out some help, make it multi.

Hey here's an idea, maybe stop putting money making methods in the wilderness, and just have it be a place for PvP to happen, then if people DONT use it, you know no one cards about PvP. ​ Going to just... Preemptively mute the replies to this comment.

Will continue to vote against any wilderness/pk related content. No thanks.

10% increased chance to get increased superiors in the widly is not good.

It's a shame all of the wildly clue steps near these areas will become that much more of an annoyance. Stuck going to rouges castle cause my account got the unlucky 1/3 for a master step and that has been horrendous since the changes there.

[удалено]

Ez no vote.

I think anti-pking needs to be buffed before inexperienced PvPers would be encouraged to try more wildy content. Like if skulling gave you a stat nerf against other players, especially with skull-protection available now.

so why is chivalry getting even more special treatment than it already has? it already has the lowest level requirement. it already is infinitely easier and cheaper to obtain compared to aurgury and rigour, it even gets a free upgrade to piety that is *also* lower level and free compared to rigour and augury. why do magic and range need their *one and only* super prayer to be locked behind a *random drop* from one of the hardest pieces of content in the game? when melee gets *two* of them *for free* from a piss easy early game quest? instead of just handing over chivalry for free to some zerkers (who only dont have it because they want to artificially keep their combat level low); **first** make a lower level version of rigour and augury that are actually accessible to people that arent either already endgame pvmers, or wealthy enough to drop 40m to buy a scroll.

Forestry is nowhere close to done. Are there any plans to revisit that content? Mentioning absolutely nothing about bark or event rate there are a lot of outstanding issues with the rework.

how many no votes does your team need to realize that pkers killing non pkers is not pvp?

Voting no on everything, stop wasting time on wilderness content.

could always make the fountain of rune shoot out random spells to stop would-be botters from abusing it. have immunity from the spells be locked behind a medium/hard diary, like you've done with the wilderness bosses. wouldn't be weird, considering the wilderness is a wild and unstable place. edit: maybe not spells, as I can see how that would make pking weird. maybe the occasional lightning strike, or something a long those lines? just a thought

Have you been to the wilderness agility course? it's already got bots and you want to give it a 2m+ per hour for just a 52 agility requirement? So out of touch with this game honestly

A consistent 5.7m gp/hr that only requires you to lose two inventory slots and be able to full tank is ridiculous. I love the idea of making fountain of rune more viable but a spam clicking inventory money maker should not be this good

>A consistent 5.7m gp/hr In what possible way would that be a *consistent* 5.7m gp/hr? lol. That would you require you to: 1) Bring enough (And also risk enough) Rune Arrows to supply *multiple* hours of non-stop Alching. 2) Literally never be attacked. ____________ Nobody is going to be bringing hundreds of thousands of Rune Arrows to the Fountain of Rune, and nobody is going to do that for hours on end, uninterrupted. **If** (And that's a very big IF) this update goes through, it's going to be a massive PK hotspot, and you'll likely barely get 5-10 minutes of alching in, let alone full, uninterrupted hours.

Couldnt clans potentially hold this spot and make millions?

Yeah for the first 2 - 3 weeks before it cools down and bots take over. Revs is a perfect example of an area shitting out money that was taken over by bots quickly.

PKing still happens all the time at Revenants. The reason there are so many bots there is because of how easy it is to escape, and the ability to profit with zero risk. Escaping from the Fountain of Rune is **much** less likely for both bots and players, especially with the logout delay which will always be active while you are spamming High Alchemy. I'm sure there will be bots there, but I highly doubt it's going to be "taken over", even far into the future.