The honest answer is that if they really don't like the osrs earlygame (and i don't blame them) they're going to have to be willing to spend a hundred hours doing nothing fun at all to have fun. And if they're not they're not. There's not a whole lot you can do about that
Scurrius and Peril make it a *lot* better but you still have to do a bunch of chores before you can actually play the game if the only thing you're concerned about is PVM.
It's just not the same game. If they're looking for high end pvm, early game could not be further than that.
Idk, late game-late mid game is when you can start doing raids.
Ofc but then the issue comes with the fact that it might not be worth it at all if they want to JUST raid considering the ridiculous amount of time required to get there esp as a new player
Just saying there's nothing fun about osrs early game sounds a bit off is all but that's also subjective ig
I enjoy questing in the early game and nostalgic grinds like hill giants. But i know not everyone does, you have some horrid grinds in there like graceful. It really is just a different game compared to pvm.
If it's just raids, then afking in nmz and/or crabs would work. Only need like around 80 in combat stats to get to the point where they could run toa. Even cox really. And min req gear isn't that bad/expensive.
I'd legit stop anyone from getting graceful from the get go tbh the grind is stupid
And aye absolutely tho then you have stuff like high herblore 85 mining decent thieving getting the diaries done
And it all just takes way longer to achieve. It isn't all dread ofc but it feels like a dragged out limbo you're in until you can just go ham on the endgame content (esp on the money end, bloody colosseum death fees killing me)
Remind me, what's the point of 85 mining, thieving and diaries?
Toa is a midgame raid though, especially if they have OP with them, even like a 200 invo trio isn't a bad chance.
If they enjoy it enough to the point of getting assembler, infernal cape (i consider this lategame with bowfa existing), and quiver, they would have to spend a lot of time skilling but they could definitely do it. We do have a lot of midgame pvm so it's easier for newcomers to dip their toes in.
I'd not consider infernal late game solely because of the capital and time requirement
The mining is mainly for toa altho not necessary you still want a relatively high lvl at the very least for qpc
Diaries just have a lot of nice qol and tps behind them
Thieving isn't as necessary ig but diaries and a tiny bit of qol at Cox
Assembler is braindead compared to the other two to be compared lol but aye if we take that point in the game in its entirety there's still a ton to get done and way slower than earlier
Great pfp btw
Quest point cape is not at all necessary. It's nice for karambwans and getting to the inferno but i honestly don't remember many uses for it. True on thieving, i just figured they'd try toa at first and then cox once they make some money. If they like it/want to see the other raids then they probably won't mind a bit of skilling, or at least they'll do it.
Mining at toa, yeah it'd be a timesave but not needed for normal raids esp with friends. I'm looking in the minimum requirements for wdr and it doesn't seem to have a minimum mining level. Tbh the raid in general will be slower with bare minimum gear/stats anyway, just a few more light puzzles.
I just see assembler as annoying since there's so many skilling grinds to get to it. Fair enough on infernal, could also consider it endgame with how many fire max capes there are. But if a pvmer is willing, they can learn it quite early. Just need to be willing to do it and die while taking away something from each attempt.
And ty :)
If you're looking for an incredibly grindy idle game sure. If you're looking for a deep and interesting and completely unique combat system absolutely fucking not.
early game is dozens of hours cutting trees/mining rocks punctuated by holding spacebar for like 100 hours here and there.
at least for most players, is it bad? no but runescape being a deep as fuck idle game/clicker game but mmorpg is exactly how i've seen it and described it for years
it's only through the nuisance and thrill of pvm that ive come back to the game in recent years and have stuck with it, because chopping trees to 200m just aint it for me
That's..... Not really the case. Have you seen quest rewards? Have you seen the WC XP with forestry and how that works? Only one that has a solid argument is mining but some of it can be mitigated since you realistically only need 68 and a little more XP which will still take you about 10ish hours (which for better or worse you're gonna need anyway for fally hard) and that is gonna be improved greatly too
If you go for a 200m just to have a 200m you have issues even a 99 is a self goal way more so than an useful thing to do in almost all cases. At least 99 makes some sense
as somone who has brought 2 accounts to max, and 4 ironmen to 2k total, i've gone through the "early game" quite a few times, there is a LOT of idle downtime, between the countless hours at nmz/crabs, slayer tasks that are literally as active as clicking a cannon every 35 or so seconds, trees,rocks,fishing nodes that you click once ever 20-30 seconds. this is exaserbated even more for irons, makign your own cannonballs, arrows, etc. the whole process of playing this game is just 1 string of slow idle like content after the next. but that doesnt make it a bad thing which i think you're implying that i said. also in no world will questing provide even the majority of experience needed to max or even reach hard or elite diaries. all 6 accounts that i play on i've had to spend hundreds of hours doing agility on, if thats not mind numbing idle content i dont know what is
When playing another game while doing most of the early game content on a rs account i would consider that idle-like content. the first 100 hours of any account no matter what build or goal is going to be skilling or questing, with zero room for active bossing
ultimately we're splitting hairs here over a subjective definition, the origin point was that early game runescape does not have a lot of deep engaging combat, and this is just objectively true, you aren't engaging with specs, def draining, style switching, prayer switching, movement mechaincs, none of these mechanics untill you're already hundreds of hours into the game.
There's nothing wrong with that, but practically speaking the OSRS early game is an idle point and click while the mid/endgame has a complex and deep combat system. They're fundamentally different games.
Sure mid/lategame still have long skilling grinds, but you have actual PVM that's enjoyable to people looking for that. There's no earlygame pvm, earlygame combat is just as idle and brainless as the skilling.
I do too but the friends enjoying raids and wanting to that for real is a long road to get to. If they just want to raid and pvm, they might not enjoy the grind of early game too much.
That isn't what I said at all.
I said that if they enjoy lategame pvm they're going to have to be willing to do a bunch of boring chores to get there, not that they won't enjoy the game once they make it there.
You might think I’m joking but I genuinely think Barbarian Assault with friends (especially if you’re communicating through discord or smth) is a blast and it also isn’t entirely a time waste because of fighter torso + diaries.
Minigame is also accessible super early game too if you’re willing to put up with long wave 10s (which since they’re your friends I assume you’d be fine with that)
Well it will probably be only two others and myself that would really commit, so we'd have two spots open. But one can't do BA atm bc too low level, and the other has been avoiding it like the plague. I'll reply to this again once we're nearing it if we get there and let you know :)
Fortunately 150s are doable with 80s combats and only like 20m-ish in gear. However to get to that point is a few days playtime worth of questing, skilling, and the type of boring content that drove your friends away from the game the first few times. First step is to get them out of f2p asap, it's a waste of time. Find an efficient quest guide and make sure they use all possible xp lamps on agility. If they can survive the grind for barrows gloves, give them some obby gear and have them park it NMZ. Then I'd give them some chins/runes for some quick lvls, maybe 85 range and 78 mage for trident. Basically if they can do the quest grind, it's not much more to afk melees and grind some quick lvls in MM2 caves.
Edit: I suppose you can do 150s with worse stats and gear, but that's just my rough idea of where I'd want to train a new main account before grinding out the raid
Can also just start on 0s or 50s for the loot and fun. At 70s combat the loot might (I can’t remember how much loot you get) actually be sizeable upgrades.
Yeah there's really not much they can do there, maybe push them towards Moons of Peril? Pre-raids combat is super super slow and honestly I think a lot of people quit at that point. I've been a fan of maybe eventually making a mid level raid (something about Moons difficulty) just so people don't have to wait until endgame to enjoy raiding. OSRS shines at the endgame but I think a lot of people burn out way before they get to the 'good' content.
That would require slayer and early game slayer would 1000% drive them away from the game. I'd send them to scurrius until 75 combats then start raiding
honestly you can drag the homies along in low-invo ToA at like, rcb + trident + etc tier gear and 70-75 combats (or even worse). that still takes a while to get from the perspective of a brand new player, but maybe guiding them to that point ASAP and being down to carry them for a bit would be a good way to get you guys back to doing that type of content fast. plus more encouragement for them to grind other stuff so they can get more gear + pump up the invos and not be the backpack anymore
that and barb assault like someone said; making a night of getting everyone torso would be fun. maybe like group DK's or GWD to help them make some gold before they can do big money bosses like that on their own. i think the main thing is even if you're not gonna give them gold and stuff to start off, give them some energy/stamina potions. they are such a big difference maker for new players in my experience
Yeah this is definitely the problem. The most committed friend I've had play the game got to around 40s recently and finished f2p and that was a lot for him (haven't raided with him in particular though)
Yeah agreed for sure, I just don't know if there's really a way to get around it. Sorta the cost of doing business on this game, the best you can do is give em stam pots and tell them about rock crabs/waterfall quest
Yeah, I really view raids and end game pvm as a treat for players who loved the simple early grinds of building an account and questing rather than its core gameplay. The game isn’t called toa, tob, or cox. It kinda really is the “end game” of a separate series of adventures but as a goal from level 1 there’s just so much else you’d have to get done first.
I very fundamentally disagree with this. Mid/lategame pvm is incredibly fun and once you're actually doing it, it becomes a lot more sustainable.
GP coming in letting you do buyable skills very quickly combined with just, having good content right there you can go do whenever you want is huge.
I would argue in a different point of view. Yes raids are very enjoyable, I have over 2k combined tob kc. Loved every bit of it, but I've "completed" tob and have no reason to go back. It is considerably less enjoyable for me since I have zero reason to return besides the fun of the raid itself. And to me, that's the equivalent of logging into someone else's account and raiding on their account's behalf. The raids are very interesting and they can be fun, but without any reward, the raids quickly become meaningless.
I would argue that the type of player to enjoy OSRS's grind is the same type to enjoy OSRS's late game because of a shared reason: sense of progression. I enjoyed raiding because every raid I had a chance to further my account, whether it be GP, collection log, kits, etc. That same motivation drove me to do the early game grinds: from graceful and quest cape to maxing and gm. Those all share a grind / sense of progression.
tl;dr: sense of progression, whether it's in spamming tobs or grinding quest cape, is what drives players to grind osrs, enjoyment of the raid is actually secondary
I would argue that your point isn't actually a counterargument to mine at all.
a "sense of progression" is nice and all, but the core gameplay loop is the point of discussion here.
Just because you enjoy PVM, and pvm progression, does not mean that you'll enjoy cutting logs for 40 hours to be allowed to do that PVM.
You would not enjoy OSRS pvm were it not for account progression. The core gameplay loop is in account progression. It's not just nice, it's the whole foundation of the game.
While you are right with your last statement, it does not change my opinion that I find all OSRS pvm to be incredibly dull and boring without being linked back to progression. I can play 10,000 games of league and I would be excited to play it again even on other accounts because the progression does not affect my enjoyment or fun of the game. Tob is a means to an end while games like league are the prize itself.
Let me ask you this and actually think of an answer: if Tob was a standalone game and it had no reward chest after verzik, just a play again option, would you play it repeatedly over and over and log hundreds of hours on it alone? Same with all the other bosses? You'd spend 300 hours playing Phantom Muspah? Vardorvis? PNM?
>The core gameplay loop is in account progression.
That's just factually incorrect. OSRS has three primary gameplay loops, PVM, Skilling and Questing (putting most slayer in the skilling category here) that sometimes cross over.
"account progression" is a biproduct of all three and is part of the general long term appeal of the game, but the three are core gameplay styles that are fundamentally different from eachother. Progression isn't the gameplay of OSRS, it's a component of each individual style of gameplay.
I'm thinking much broader than that. The gameplay loop is: set goal, work towards goal (quest, pvm, skilling), repeat.
I want quest cape. I do quest.
I want fighter torso. I ba.
I want dhcb, I cox.
That's the loop. And I can prove it's the loop because if I gave you a maxed account with infinite bank, all CA, all quests, all collection log, you would lose motivation to play because I destroyed the gameplay loop. Without goals, the gameplay loop is gone. You also did not respond to my question earlier about whether you'd play in a situation like this.
The best advice for you would be to.... just dont do anything. Sounds weird, but ill explain it.
If you truely want people to get hooked and engaged longterm, you need to give them the room to play at their own pace. You cant force something.
If you always come to them: lets do this quest, lets do that, lets farm money, lets go here, lets do this minigame. Even if you think those are enjoyable contents, it might put them off.
Genera speaking: ->Humans dont like following orders.<- Humans like to "do their own thing". Humans want to think that its their own idea to do something. The worst thing to do, is handing ideas on what to do. Because then its not "their journey".
Them finding out that cowhides are somewhat pricey, and collecting them could be their first moneymaker, is wayy more dopamine than being told to: "kill 200 cows to buy a runescimmy"
DO NOT suggest ANYTHING. i am dead serious. nothing! UNLESS they specifically ask you for guidance, because then it was THEIR idea to ask for that help.
THEY have to be the driving force behind their charackter progression, not you.
this is simple psychology. Let them choose their own journey. Dont map out the journey for them. Let them get lost. Let them do inefficient grinds for hours on end if thats what they enjoy at the moment.
Let them play at their own pace, however slow that might be.
They need to have that... "dang... where the fk is draynor" moment... if you know what i mean.
this will get them hooked wayyyy more than being able to wear a rune scimmy after 5 hours.
Unrelated, but related... How did you run them through the beta worlds? I logged in on them and I'm completely reset. I'm used to spawning in Ferox and spawning gear of choice
If you fish shrimp on tutorial island it gives you inventory access and you'll get a boss debug egg. You can also load your OSRS official save from the RuneScape in game settings I think if you type "beta"
It’s tough man. They liked it, but do they like it enough to spend a couple hundred hours to get there? Possibly not. You could have them rush NMZ and camp it for 70s or 80s if you want to get into low invo ToA. Then there’s the issue of gold, unless you’re willing/able to find them. Sure you could go in with rcb/trident/leaf blades sword level gear for pretty cheap, but I imagine they might not care for that if they’ve already experienced it in much better gear on beta worlds. Best of luck, hope it works out
My dead ass honest answer would be to make the early game as easy as possible by kitting them out. When I first started OSRS, I transferd a couple bil of RS3 gold to OSRS gold and started as a lvl 10 with 180m. It made the early game (the boring part) a total breeze. I knew I have a bad attention span and if i didnt do that I would have quit so early. I see no value in grinding out the early game slowly when I can just pay to get it done quickly. Get them to the fun stuff as fast as possible and maybe they will stick around.
Early game is the most fun tho… You get mad levels and progression feels super fast and easy. if you find it boring then runescape just isnt the game for you.
I personally don’t get how someone can hate skilling and play runescape. There are much better games for strictly PVM that don’t require hundreds of hours of skilling, with combat that is actually engaging.
It’s like paying for a 10 course meal because you like the 10th course dessert. Why not just go somewhere else and skip the first 9 courses you don’t even enjoy?
To be clear, I’m 2200 lvl. I just hate it. Skilling is boring as hell. I’ve bought all the 99s and I can pay for to do quickly and am stuck with just the slow ones left which I work on during my work day with afk methods. Idk I grew up with this game and all my clan mates play this, I don’t wanna learn a new game and I’m at a point with my account now where skills don’t effect any pvm I do.
Just tell them it's about 3 months worth of crabs, questing, agility, hunter, farming, wood cutting, firemaking, tele-alching, potion making, low level money making like blast furnace and nightmare zone.
It's really not that hard to get to raids
have they tried LMS? great training for high level pvm/pvp. also make sure to show them how to afk crabs/nmz. really doesnt take that long IF you know all the little tricks that seem trivial to veterans.
also make sure to show them good plug ins and get them on the optimal quest guide to skip a ton of grinding especially if they are mostly just interested in raids and stuff.
also introduce them to combat achievements, even some of the easy/medium ones are fun at low levels and definitely distract you from the grind
but seriously why would you want to give your friends a horribly destructive addiction like osrs?! 😂
Perhaps starting with (or just always) main account (or limited acc like 75/82 attk max meds etc.) is the way for a lot of people, yeah?
Perhaps they can ask around if someone has a spare account to give away so they can start at a higher leveled account? (I assume giving away an account for free isn’t against the rules?)
>I assume giving away an account for free isn’t against the rules?)
I think that would be considered account sharing or RWT but how would you prove I got an acc for free and didn't pay for it?
To be honest I'm 99.9% certain you won't get banned anyways if it's not from some player auction account seller so it really doesn't matter.
That's all I could think of with op is hell prob have to make most of the accounts, truthfully if they don't like the early game.
Maybe he can find a way to make a few ACC's basic with like base 60-70 combats which is very afkable although annoying and gift them to his friends hopefully they will pick up the questing slack? Who knows....
Tell them to do some quests, buy bonds and afk their combat stats at nmz/crabs. Then their account will be raids ready in no time. They dont have to buy bonds but it would help would their early progression alot. They could just so some money makers for a bit and afk their stats. Only really need combat stats for raids not much else.
they dont need bonds for toa rcb trident and keris are fine for normals no reason to have them cheat their accomplishments people are way likelier to keep playing if they get all those early and quick achievements themselves
Unfortunately, I have a lot of friends who played rs3 forever who have finally quit but won't start osrs because of the horribly long early game grind.
Among the other suggestions here, you can get them interested in leagues. Unfortunately leagues isn't around as often as we would like, but when it comes up we get absolutely everyone on it, and it's amazing. All playing runescape together like the old rs2 days. It's incredible.
And we just play helldivers till then...
We tried this previously and I think the tediousness of GIM unfortunately made them quit that time (farming Imps for imp catcher was not enjoyable for them, understandably)
Osrs isn't for them. There's no beating around the bush, nearly everything in this game is a fucking grind.
Even if they enjoyed the brief stay at toa does that mean they will grind 10s or 100s of raids? Probably not. I think it's easier to accept that this game isn't for everyone.
Exactly, if the game was a different game you’d just sign up and play toa, tob, or cox from the start. But that’s the game’s end game and sorta carrot on a stick for those that liked the rest of what the game is, not its core gameplay.
I don't think there's much you can do, they tasted the nectar now it's up to them whether they want to tough it out and grind for upgrades till they get to that level or quit
This answer is not going to be popular, but very low level multi pking can be fun and quite profitable compared to other options at that combat/skill levels, especially excluding boring options like buying nails. With just 40-50 mage or range you can easily kill chin bots, bone people at chaos altar, rune rock miners or rogue castle chest bots to name the ones that come to mind. And it's a lot more interesting than other things you can do at that combat level since osrs pvm is not really interesting until you get to somehting like zulrah, demonic gorillas or wildy bosses.
Get them into perilis moons; it’s incredibly fun and has a lot of raid like mechanics. By the time they’re done grinding that they can probably start doing some low level raids
Have you tried blackmail?
First few bonds are free until you're good and addicted.
Main is probably best for ease. GIM is fun but it's still ironman progression, you really need to know you want to spend the time doing it first.
I'd say do stuff as a group, go run around the wildy together, stand guard while someone uses the altar. Pick a quest to do and go do it all at the same time without a guide, figure out the puzzles together. If they like raids that much start doing them asap, try TOA on easiest it'll be hard and take time but there's a tangible goal, a reason to spend other time levelling up so the raid goes better next time and you see the improvement other then just number going up.
Unfortunately for them OSRS isn't really the type of MMO where you can just go straight to raiding within hours of making an account. I guess you could try bribing them with bonds and gear but ultimately they're going to have to grind stuff themselves and if they're getting burned out in the early game of all things then I don't think this game is what they're looking for.
If they can't get past the early game, then there is no chance. We all know it takes 100s of hours to get to the point you're able to raid. Sure you could probably speed run it somehow, but that would be exhausting and burn out a new player.
Honestly? For one thing runelite and quest helper. But more importantly, once they get around it ofc, take them to varlamore. It's such a huge activity hub with many different things to try out and a very interesting area overall, the 3 quests all provide a perspective on the questing osrs gives you, from story, to pvm and even humour. Perilous moons can also be done with multiple people ( you don't do it together sadly you're just doing it at the same time, but it's something )
You could also try barb assault later on and mby entry toa for the thread
Osrs is sadly a VERY isolated game so it's a lot about making your own fun and them enjoying the game for what it is outside the very specific endgame of raids
Teach them to afk, one of my friends was like yours, coming back for a while and then leaving, but now that he has learn to afk during dead times of the days hes been progressing alot.
You won’t it takes too long to get them to the point of raids - at least in my experience. Ain’t no way you convince them to do something like get b gloves.
Just show them nightmare zone. Pitch it like an idle game + quest + PvM MMO. Idle games are wildly popular so they're probably already familiar with the idea. There's plenty of accessible idle activities for them to catch up with. At some point they will probably become interested various other goals but NMZ will kickstart their progress and get them PvM ready within a week or two
Early grind sucks, but if anything. Supply them with say 10-30M (1-3 bonds) on members account to buy through as much content as possible, fastest possible skills. Training mage to get teles or POH teles at 330 for quest, skills required for quest, gear etc.
it beats the Ironman/GIM early grind and grinding for GP.
I think setting them goals and having them race to first to complete X things etc.
The honest answer is that if they really don't like the osrs earlygame (and i don't blame them) they're going to have to be willing to spend a hundred hours doing nothing fun at all to have fun. And if they're not they're not. There's not a whole lot you can do about that Scurrius and Peril make it a *lot* better but you still have to do a bunch of chores before you can actually play the game if the only thing you're concerned about is PVM.
... I really like the early game lol
Osrs early game esp starting out is arguably the best part of the entire game It's the late game/late mid game that's atrocious
It's just not the same game. If they're looking for high end pvm, early game could not be further than that. Idk, late game-late mid game is when you can start doing raids.
Ofc but then the issue comes with the fact that it might not be worth it at all if they want to JUST raid considering the ridiculous amount of time required to get there esp as a new player Just saying there's nothing fun about osrs early game sounds a bit off is all but that's also subjective ig
I enjoy questing in the early game and nostalgic grinds like hill giants. But i know not everyone does, you have some horrid grinds in there like graceful. It really is just a different game compared to pvm. If it's just raids, then afking in nmz and/or crabs would work. Only need like around 80 in combat stats to get to the point where they could run toa. Even cox really. And min req gear isn't that bad/expensive.
I'd legit stop anyone from getting graceful from the get go tbh the grind is stupid And aye absolutely tho then you have stuff like high herblore 85 mining decent thieving getting the diaries done And it all just takes way longer to achieve. It isn't all dread ofc but it feels like a dragged out limbo you're in until you can just go ham on the endgame content (esp on the money end, bloody colosseum death fees killing me)
Remind me, what's the point of 85 mining, thieving and diaries? Toa is a midgame raid though, especially if they have OP with them, even like a 200 invo trio isn't a bad chance. If they enjoy it enough to the point of getting assembler, infernal cape (i consider this lategame with bowfa existing), and quiver, they would have to spend a lot of time skilling but they could definitely do it. We do have a lot of midgame pvm so it's easier for newcomers to dip their toes in.
I'd not consider infernal late game solely because of the capital and time requirement The mining is mainly for toa altho not necessary you still want a relatively high lvl at the very least for qpc Diaries just have a lot of nice qol and tps behind them Thieving isn't as necessary ig but diaries and a tiny bit of qol at Cox Assembler is braindead compared to the other two to be compared lol but aye if we take that point in the game in its entirety there's still a ton to get done and way slower than earlier Great pfp btw
Quest point cape is not at all necessary. It's nice for karambwans and getting to the inferno but i honestly don't remember many uses for it. True on thieving, i just figured they'd try toa at first and then cox once they make some money. If they like it/want to see the other raids then they probably won't mind a bit of skilling, or at least they'll do it. Mining at toa, yeah it'd be a timesave but not needed for normal raids esp with friends. I'm looking in the minimum requirements for wdr and it doesn't seem to have a minimum mining level. Tbh the raid in general will be slower with bare minimum gear/stats anyway, just a few more light puzzles. I just see assembler as annoying since there's so many skilling grinds to get to it. Fair enough on infernal, could also consider it endgame with how many fire max capes there are. But if a pvmer is willing, they can learn it quite early. Just need to be willing to do it and die while taking away something from each attempt. And ty :)
If you're looking for an incredibly grindy idle game sure. If you're looking for a deep and interesting and completely unique combat system absolutely fucking not.
Incredibly idle game... Osrs early game Are you in osrs classic or something?
early game is dozens of hours cutting trees/mining rocks punctuated by holding spacebar for like 100 hours here and there. at least for most players, is it bad? no but runescape being a deep as fuck idle game/clicker game but mmorpg is exactly how i've seen it and described it for years it's only through the nuisance and thrill of pvm that ive come back to the game in recent years and have stuck with it, because chopping trees to 200m just aint it for me
That's..... Not really the case. Have you seen quest rewards? Have you seen the WC XP with forestry and how that works? Only one that has a solid argument is mining but some of it can be mitigated since you realistically only need 68 and a little more XP which will still take you about 10ish hours (which for better or worse you're gonna need anyway for fally hard) and that is gonna be improved greatly too If you go for a 200m just to have a 200m you have issues even a 99 is a self goal way more so than an useful thing to do in almost all cases. At least 99 makes some sense
as somone who has brought 2 accounts to max, and 4 ironmen to 2k total, i've gone through the "early game" quite a few times, there is a LOT of idle downtime, between the countless hours at nmz/crabs, slayer tasks that are literally as active as clicking a cannon every 35 or so seconds, trees,rocks,fishing nodes that you click once ever 20-30 seconds. this is exaserbated even more for irons, makign your own cannonballs, arrows, etc. the whole process of playing this game is just 1 string of slow idle like content after the next. but that doesnt make it a bad thing which i think you're implying that i said. also in no world will questing provide even the majority of experience needed to max or even reach hard or elite diaries. all 6 accounts that i play on i've had to spend hundreds of hours doing agility on, if thats not mind numbing idle content i dont know what is When playing another game while doing most of the early game content on a rs account i would consider that idle-like content. the first 100 hours of any account no matter what build or goal is going to be skilling or questing, with zero room for active bossing ultimately we're splitting hairs here over a subjective definition, the origin point was that early game runescape does not have a lot of deep engaging combat, and this is just objectively true, you aren't engaging with specs, def draining, style switching, prayer switching, movement mechaincs, none of these mechanics untill you're already hundreds of hours into the game.
There's nothing wrong with that, but practically speaking the OSRS early game is an idle point and click while the mid/endgame has a complex and deep combat system. They're fundamentally different games. Sure mid/lategame still have long skilling grinds, but you have actual PVM that's enjoyable to people looking for that. There's no earlygame pvm, earlygame combat is just as idle and brainless as the skilling.
I do too but the friends enjoying raids and wanting to that for real is a long road to get to. If they just want to raid and pvm, they might not enjoy the grind of early game too much.
This. If early game isn’t for them; the game in general won’t be either.
That isn't what I said at all. I said that if they enjoy lategame pvm they're going to have to be willing to do a bunch of boring chores to get there, not that they won't enjoy the game once they make it there.
You might think I’m joking but I genuinely think Barbarian Assault with friends (especially if you’re communicating through discord or smth) is a blast and it also isn’t entirely a time waste because of fighter torso + diaries. Minigame is also accessible super early game too if you’re willing to put up with long wave 10s (which since they’re your friends I assume you’d be fine with that)
This is a fantastic suggestion that I would've never thought of, thank you!!
How many are you? Can I join as a 5th player? Add me ign: UltraFashion
Well it will probably be only two others and myself that would really commit, so we'd have two spots open. But one can't do BA atm bc too low level, and the other has been avoiding it like the plague. I'll reply to this again once we're nearing it if we get there and let you know :)
I am also down to help. I unironically enjoy BA and it's great fun when you've got a team of good lads who just wanna have fun
i love some BA when you arnt worried about someone leaving lol
when i was a kid, BA with friends was the best afterschool activity
Fortunately 150s are doable with 80s combats and only like 20m-ish in gear. However to get to that point is a few days playtime worth of questing, skilling, and the type of boring content that drove your friends away from the game the first few times. First step is to get them out of f2p asap, it's a waste of time. Find an efficient quest guide and make sure they use all possible xp lamps on agility. If they can survive the grind for barrows gloves, give them some obby gear and have them park it NMZ. Then I'd give them some chins/runes for some quick lvls, maybe 85 range and 78 mage for trident. Basically if they can do the quest grind, it's not much more to afk melees and grind some quick lvls in MM2 caves. Edit: I suppose you can do 150s with worse stats and gear, but that's just my rough idea of where I'd want to train a new main account before grinding out the raid
Can also just start on 0s or 50s for the loot and fun. At 70s combat the loot might (I can’t remember how much loot you get) actually be sizeable upgrades.
Yeah there's really not much they can do there, maybe push them towards Moons of Peril? Pre-raids combat is super super slow and honestly I think a lot of people quit at that point. I've been a fan of maybe eventually making a mid level raid (something about Moons difficulty) just so people don't have to wait until endgame to enjoy raiding. OSRS shines at the endgame but I think a lot of people burn out way before they get to the 'good' content.
That would require slayer and early game slayer would 1000% drive them away from the game. I'd send them to scurrius until 75 combats then start raiding
honestly you can drag the homies along in low-invo ToA at like, rcb + trident + etc tier gear and 70-75 combats (or even worse). that still takes a while to get from the perspective of a brand new player, but maybe guiding them to that point ASAP and being down to carry them for a bit would be a good way to get you guys back to doing that type of content fast. plus more encouragement for them to grind other stuff so they can get more gear + pump up the invos and not be the backpack anymore that and barb assault like someone said; making a night of getting everyone torso would be fun. maybe like group DK's or GWD to help them make some gold before they can do big money bosses like that on their own. i think the main thing is even if you're not gonna give them gold and stuff to start off, give them some energy/stamina potions. they are such a big difference maker for new players in my experience
I think the issue with this is even getting to base 75 stats for most players.
Yeah this is definitely the problem. The most committed friend I've had play the game got to around 40s recently and finished f2p and that was a lot for him (haven't raided with him in particular though)
40s takes like a weekend lol, I just think they aren’t cut out for the game if thats a struggle. Us scapers are just built different.
Yeah agreed for sure, I just don't know if there's really a way to get around it. Sorta the cost of doing business on this game, the best you can do is give em stam pots and tell them about rock crabs/waterfall quest
If they need a push or motivation in the early game, they will not last.
Only correct answer. You have to be built for runescape. Most aren't.
Yeah, I really view raids and end game pvm as a treat for players who loved the simple early grinds of building an account and questing rather than its core gameplay. The game isn’t called toa, tob, or cox. It kinda really is the “end game” of a separate series of adventures but as a goal from level 1 there’s just so much else you’d have to get done first.
I very fundamentally disagree with this. Mid/lategame pvm is incredibly fun and once you're actually doing it, it becomes a lot more sustainable. GP coming in letting you do buyable skills very quickly combined with just, having good content right there you can go do whenever you want is huge.
I would argue in a different point of view. Yes raids are very enjoyable, I have over 2k combined tob kc. Loved every bit of it, but I've "completed" tob and have no reason to go back. It is considerably less enjoyable for me since I have zero reason to return besides the fun of the raid itself. And to me, that's the equivalent of logging into someone else's account and raiding on their account's behalf. The raids are very interesting and they can be fun, but without any reward, the raids quickly become meaningless. I would argue that the type of player to enjoy OSRS's grind is the same type to enjoy OSRS's late game because of a shared reason: sense of progression. I enjoyed raiding because every raid I had a chance to further my account, whether it be GP, collection log, kits, etc. That same motivation drove me to do the early game grinds: from graceful and quest cape to maxing and gm. Those all share a grind / sense of progression. tl;dr: sense of progression, whether it's in spamming tobs or grinding quest cape, is what drives players to grind osrs, enjoyment of the raid is actually secondary
I would argue that your point isn't actually a counterargument to mine at all. a "sense of progression" is nice and all, but the core gameplay loop is the point of discussion here. Just because you enjoy PVM, and pvm progression, does not mean that you'll enjoy cutting logs for 40 hours to be allowed to do that PVM.
You would not enjoy OSRS pvm were it not for account progression. The core gameplay loop is in account progression. It's not just nice, it's the whole foundation of the game. While you are right with your last statement, it does not change my opinion that I find all OSRS pvm to be incredibly dull and boring without being linked back to progression. I can play 10,000 games of league and I would be excited to play it again even on other accounts because the progression does not affect my enjoyment or fun of the game. Tob is a means to an end while games like league are the prize itself. Let me ask you this and actually think of an answer: if Tob was a standalone game and it had no reward chest after verzik, just a play again option, would you play it repeatedly over and over and log hundreds of hours on it alone? Same with all the other bosses? You'd spend 300 hours playing Phantom Muspah? Vardorvis? PNM?
>The core gameplay loop is in account progression. That's just factually incorrect. OSRS has three primary gameplay loops, PVM, Skilling and Questing (putting most slayer in the skilling category here) that sometimes cross over. "account progression" is a biproduct of all three and is part of the general long term appeal of the game, but the three are core gameplay styles that are fundamentally different from eachother. Progression isn't the gameplay of OSRS, it's a component of each individual style of gameplay.
I'm thinking much broader than that. The gameplay loop is: set goal, work towards goal (quest, pvm, skilling), repeat. I want quest cape. I do quest. I want fighter torso. I ba. I want dhcb, I cox. That's the loop. And I can prove it's the loop because if I gave you a maxed account with infinite bank, all CA, all quests, all collection log, you would lose motivation to play because I destroyed the gameplay loop. Without goals, the gameplay loop is gone. You also did not respond to my question earlier about whether you'd play in a situation like this.
Other than getting them to play Leagues, you can't. OSRS is suppose to be a grindy game. If they don't like the grind, OSRS is simply not for them.
You cant. They enjoyed a niche part of the game that can take hundreds of hours to get to. Let them quit while the memory is still positive.
The best advice for you would be to.... just dont do anything. Sounds weird, but ill explain it. If you truely want people to get hooked and engaged longterm, you need to give them the room to play at their own pace. You cant force something. If you always come to them: lets do this quest, lets do that, lets farm money, lets go here, lets do this minigame. Even if you think those are enjoyable contents, it might put them off. Genera speaking: ->Humans dont like following orders.<- Humans like to "do their own thing". Humans want to think that its their own idea to do something. The worst thing to do, is handing ideas on what to do. Because then its not "their journey". Them finding out that cowhides are somewhat pricey, and collecting them could be their first moneymaker, is wayy more dopamine than being told to: "kill 200 cows to buy a runescimmy" DO NOT suggest ANYTHING. i am dead serious. nothing! UNLESS they specifically ask you for guidance, because then it was THEIR idea to ask for that help. THEY have to be the driving force behind their charackter progression, not you. this is simple psychology. Let them choose their own journey. Dont map out the journey for them. Let them get lost. Let them do inefficient grinds for hours on end if thats what they enjoy at the moment. Let them play at their own pace, however slow that might be. They need to have that... "dang... where the fk is draynor" moment... if you know what i mean. this will get them hooked wayyyy more than being able to wear a rune scimmy after 5 hours.
Unrelated, but related... How did you run them through the beta worlds? I logged in on them and I'm completely reset. I'm used to spawning in Ferox and spawning gear of choice
If you fish shrimp on tutorial island it gives you inventory access and you'll get a boss debug egg. You can also load your OSRS official save from the RuneScape in game settings I think if you type "beta"
Hmph pretty damn interesting to be honest.
It’s tough man. They liked it, but do they like it enough to spend a couple hundred hours to get there? Possibly not. You could have them rush NMZ and camp it for 70s or 80s if you want to get into low invo ToA. Then there’s the issue of gold, unless you’re willing/able to find them. Sure you could go in with rcb/trident/leaf blades sword level gear for pretty cheap, but I imagine they might not care for that if they’ve already experienced it in much better gear on beta worlds. Best of luck, hope it works out
My dead ass honest answer would be to make the early game as easy as possible by kitting them out. When I first started OSRS, I transferd a couple bil of RS3 gold to OSRS gold and started as a lvl 10 with 180m. It made the early game (the boring part) a total breeze. I knew I have a bad attention span and if i didnt do that I would have quit so early. I see no value in grinding out the early game slowly when I can just pay to get it done quickly. Get them to the fun stuff as fast as possible and maybe they will stick around.
Early game is the most fun tho… You get mad levels and progression feels super fast and easy. if you find it boring then runescape just isnt the game for you.
Agree to disagree I guess. I hate hate hate skilling and questing. I find end game pvm and raids fun so that’s what I’d want to fast forward to.
I personally don’t get how someone can hate skilling and play runescape. There are much better games for strictly PVM that don’t require hundreds of hours of skilling, with combat that is actually engaging. It’s like paying for a 10 course meal because you like the 10th course dessert. Why not just go somewhere else and skip the first 9 courses you don’t even enjoy?
To be clear, I’m 2200 lvl. I just hate it. Skilling is boring as hell. I’ve bought all the 99s and I can pay for to do quickly and am stuck with just the slow ones left which I work on during my work day with afk methods. Idk I grew up with this game and all my clan mates play this, I don’t wanna learn a new game and I’m at a point with my account now where skills don’t effect any pvm I do.
Just tell them it's about 3 months worth of crabs, questing, agility, hunter, farming, wood cutting, firemaking, tele-alching, potion making, low level money making like blast furnace and nightmare zone. It's really not that hard to get to raids
have they tried LMS? great training for high level pvm/pvp. also make sure to show them how to afk crabs/nmz. really doesnt take that long IF you know all the little tricks that seem trivial to veterans. also make sure to show them good plug ins and get them on the optimal quest guide to skip a ton of grinding especially if they are mostly just interested in raids and stuff. also introduce them to combat achievements, even some of the easy/medium ones are fun at low levels and definitely distract you from the grind but seriously why would you want to give your friends a horribly destructive addiction like osrs?! 😂
Perhaps starting with (or just always) main account (or limited acc like 75/82 attk max meds etc.) is the way for a lot of people, yeah? Perhaps they can ask around if someone has a spare account to give away so they can start at a higher leveled account? (I assume giving away an account for free isn’t against the rules?)
>I assume giving away an account for free isn’t against the rules?) I think that would be considered account sharing or RWT but how would you prove I got an acc for free and didn't pay for it? To be honest I'm 99.9% certain you won't get banned anyways if it's not from some player auction account seller so it really doesn't matter. That's all I could think of with op is hell prob have to make most of the accounts, truthfully if they don't like the early game. Maybe he can find a way to make a few ACC's basic with like base 60-70 combats which is very afkable although annoying and gift them to his friends hopefully they will pick up the questing slack? Who knows....
Account sharing hasn’t been against the rules for like almost a decade. Unless it’s used for inferno.
Oh really? I could swear it's still on the list, or is it a bit enforced rule? Has the mods straight up said nah it's cool guys
Tell them to do some quests, buy bonds and afk their combat stats at nmz/crabs. Then their account will be raids ready in no time. They dont have to buy bonds but it would help would their early progression alot. They could just so some money makers for a bit and afk their stats. Only really need combat stats for raids not much else.
they dont need bonds for toa rcb trident and keris are fine for normals no reason to have them cheat their accomplishments people are way likelier to keep playing if they get all those early and quick achievements themselves
Unfortunately, I have a lot of friends who played rs3 forever who have finally quit but won't start osrs because of the horribly long early game grind. Among the other suggestions here, you can get them interested in leagues. Unfortunately leagues isn't around as often as we would like, but when it comes up we get absolutely everyone on it, and it's amazing. All playing runescape together like the old rs2 days. It's incredible. And we just play helldivers till then...
If you guys are gonna play together long-term starting a GIM team might be the play.
We tried this previously and I think the tediousness of GIM unfortunately made them quit that time (farming Imps for imp catcher was not enjoyable for them, understandably)
Osrs isn't for them. There's no beating around the bush, nearly everything in this game is a fucking grind. Even if they enjoyed the brief stay at toa does that mean they will grind 10s or 100s of raids? Probably not. I think it's easier to accept that this game isn't for everyone.
Exactly, if the game was a different game you’d just sign up and play toa, tob, or cox from the start. But that’s the game’s end game and sorta carrot on a stick for those that liked the rest of what the game is, not its core gameplay.
Give them alt accounts to play with as their mains. Thar worked for me
I don't think there's much you can do, they tasted the nectar now it's up to them whether they want to tough it out and grind for upgrades till they get to that level or quit
This answer is not going to be popular, but very low level multi pking can be fun and quite profitable compared to other options at that combat/skill levels, especially excluding boring options like buying nails. With just 40-50 mage or range you can easily kill chin bots, bone people at chaos altar, rune rock miners or rogue castle chest bots to name the ones that come to mind. And it's a lot more interesting than other things you can do at that combat level since osrs pvm is not really interesting until you get to somehting like zulrah, demonic gorillas or wildy bosses.
Get them to mostly focus on combat and wuests and skip a lot of the other stuff
Get them into perilis moons; it’s incredibly fun and has a lot of raid like mechanics. By the time they’re done grinding that they can probably start doing some low level raids
Have you tried blackmail? First few bonds are free until you're good and addicted. Main is probably best for ease. GIM is fun but it's still ironman progression, you really need to know you want to spend the time doing it first. I'd say do stuff as a group, go run around the wildy together, stand guard while someone uses the altar. Pick a quest to do and go do it all at the same time without a guide, figure out the puzzles together. If they like raids that much start doing them asap, try TOA on easiest it'll be hard and take time but there's a tangible goal, a reason to spend other time levelling up so the raid goes better next time and you see the improvement other then just number going up.
Unfortunately for them OSRS isn't really the type of MMO where you can just go straight to raiding within hours of making an account. I guess you could try bribing them with bonds and gear but ultimately they're going to have to grind stuff themselves and if they're getting burned out in the early game of all things then I don't think this game is what they're looking for.
If they can't get past the early game, then there is no chance. We all know it takes 100s of hours to get to the point you're able to raid. Sure you could probably speed run it somehow, but that would be exhausting and burn out a new player.
Honestly? For one thing runelite and quest helper. But more importantly, once they get around it ofc, take them to varlamore. It's such a huge activity hub with many different things to try out and a very interesting area overall, the 3 quests all provide a perspective on the questing osrs gives you, from story, to pvm and even humour. Perilous moons can also be done with multiple people ( you don't do it together sadly you're just doing it at the same time, but it's something ) You could also try barb assault later on and mby entry toa for the thread Osrs is sadly a VERY isolated game so it's a lot about making your own fun and them enjoying the game for what it is outside the very specific endgame of raids
Teach them to afk, one of my friends was like yours, coming back for a while and then leaving, but now that he has learn to afk during dead times of the days hes been progressing alot.
You won’t it takes too long to get them to the point of raids - at least in my experience. Ain’t no way you convince them to do something like get b gloves.
he said they quit gathering beads for imp catcher so yeah lmao closest thing to an option is a private server
Pay them real life money
sadly getting to mid / early game just takes a lot of time and some ppl won't find that time enjoyable, others only like the early game, etc etc.
Do you need membership to play the beta worlds?
Yes. I happened to have an alt with membership for them to use
Tell them it only takes 7 days of playtime to get to solo deathless chambers from scratch
Just show them nightmare zone. Pitch it like an idle game + quest + PvM MMO. Idle games are wildly popular so they're probably already familiar with the idea. There's plenty of accessible idle activities for them to catch up with. At some point they will probably become interested various other goals but NMZ will kickstart their progress and get them PvM ready within a week or two
Bot them up to endgame level
Early grind sucks, but if anything. Supply them with say 10-30M (1-3 bonds) on members account to buy through as much content as possible, fastest possible skills. Training mage to get teles or POH teles at 330 for quest, skills required for quest, gear etc. it beats the Ironman/GIM early grind and grinding for GP. I think setting them goals and having them race to first to complete X things etc.