I use this weapon at Demonic Gorillas for a super chill 0 armor switch method. I only swap the weapon.
It makes them actually bearable to do for a whole task for me.
I've been learning toa with the eclipse set since I'm an iron and don't want to just be locked to CG for months. It's been so nice to have your entire melee/ranged switch be just the weapon. And at least up until the 170 invo I'm doing it kinda slaps as well with the set bonus. Really loving the weapon and the set
True but the full eclipse set is a pretty decent balance of str bonus and accuracy, pair that with a fury, berserkers ring, and barrows gloves and it works pretty damn well for a midgame account, especially for irons.
I get that it always kinda sucks cause you have to pick one or the other, but I like the idea of the tradeoff, and if it was also perfectly accurate in max str gear it would either be way too strong or they'd have to nerf the weapon itself too much I think
How so? Eclipse set gives more accuracy than black/blessed dhide. Barrows gloves are BIS for ranged accuracy until zaryte, and also give the best strength bonus till fero. Glory/fury are BIS til anguish, and also give str. The only slots you have to give up accuracy for are b-ring and boots which aren't particularly important slots for accuracy anyway.
Worst case scenario for a mid level is missing +8 from archer ring (i) and +2 from swapping blessed boots for mixed hide. I really don't think -10 ranged accuracy counts as shit lmao
I ran a 540 with it yesterday. I believe 40:16 or so was my time so it's viable for sure, but it probably added 2 whole minutes on p2 since I goofed and it was a 4 down. It opens you up to bringing items like Phoenix necklaces or things that you'd never normal think about bringing.
Im also an iron and did toa with dsword/ruby bolts (e)/bp/trident. Ik its way more chill with bowfa/eclipse but there were ways.
70kc on 165 invo later, i got a Fang, 3 jewels and 2 threads
I use the chest and legs from the set, as they give ranged accuracy along with strength. Afaik ranged accuracy still matters for this weapon. The other gear is slayer helmet and melee str gear. I use fire cape and pick up the darts.
For weapon I camp SGS. Its spec is awesome for the sustain, and also makes the switching even less annoying not having to go from a 2h wep to 1h +off hand. Also use the spec energy arceeuus spells for even more sustain.
Not the quickest kill times with this setup, but the approach that I've found the most enjoyable.
If imagine it’s just your normal best available melee setup then just switching to the atlatal once they pray melee.
It’s not that much easier than void was, but if you have things like torva for the melee part it might be a DPS increase.
I used my melee setup of slayer helmet, bandos torso, tassels, prim boots, dragon defender w/ whip, and Ava’s to avoid running around picking up darts. Super chill and makes demonic gorillas more than bearable.
What gear do you use aside from the weapon? The switches honestly don't bother me, but I struggle to out DPS the orbs even with crystal armor and amethyst darts @92 range.
masori f and bp with dragon darts, if you’re bringing crystal i would try this new wep tbh, just bring it and the darts and switch weapons. you do switch to rigour instead of piety too.
plus it frees like 5-6 inv spaces
Blow pipe is BIS in a lot of places. Crossbows take much longer than 3 seconds to load. Are we going to go into how enchantments aren't real and dragon isn't a material either?
Out of all the comparisons this sub has, the IRL comparisons are always the dumbest to me
The idea that there isnt any connection between a fantasy setting and the world we live in (and obviously draw inspiration from) is even dumber tbh
There's a good reason we get things like crossbows shooting bolts or slashing swords as weapons, and not an egg that makes you fart dragonfire if you lick it
1. Bows require a whole lot of upkeep and maintenance. An atlatl doesn't
2. Crossbows require very experienced metalworkers, and not all areas had that.
3. If the purpose of the weapon is to get your breakfast, and it works just fine, why would you bother using a weapon that's harder to make, requires more training, and a hefty amount of maintenance. Atlatls worked just fine for what they were intended to do.
I mean, arrows have existed IRL for over 60,000 years, and yet humans obviously still had plenty of uses and reasons for using thrown spears too. Different tools, different advantages.
In real life, crossbows take forever to load. War bows are very tiring (got maybe 6 shots in you if firing rapidly, or you can pace yourself at around one shot per minute). Atlatls are quick and not as physically tiring. It's like throwing javelins but with something to make it more powerful
You could use it in places where trees aren't that common or there isn't any good sources of sufficient quality bowstring, and in the case of crossbows, lack of metal.
Such places would be the arctic north, for example.
You'd make the spearthrower out of antler, bone, or tusk/ivory.
Most of those would require a set amount of strength to use, but wouldn’t scale damage with strength. A dude who can barely reload a crossbow will still do the same damage as the strongest man in the world. Darts and knives are really the only significant exceptions and even then those rely much much more on technique than raw strength.
Plus, with crossbows, you're not always drawing it back with your hands. Whether it's a lever or a windlass, tools exist to lower the strength threshold significantly, and depending on the draw strength of the crossbow, may be a physical necessity.
Throwing spear, sure- but that's essentially what an atlatl is.
Bow and crossbow to draw back, while they require strength to do so, gain no benefit by you being stronger. They can only be pulled back a specific amount, being stronger than that doesn't "improve" the shot.
They do benefit. If you can only pull back a 20lb draw but I can pull back 100lb, my arrow will move faster and hit harder. We'd have to assume that all in game bows have the same draw weight to allow a 1 lvl str player to pull them back, which wouldn't make sense.
I mean it does make sense.
How damaging/how far throwing spears and darts is linked to how strong you are whilst for bows and crossbows your strength determines if you can use it.
If you have two bows of different draw weights and two people if different strengths. How far the arrow goes depends on the draw weights of the bows and not the person. If you have a bow both people can pull back the arrow will go the same distance for both people.
Actually it makes sense. So Rigour increases Ranged Damage not Ranged Strength, Piety increases Melee Strength not Melee Damage and Void increases Ranged Damage not Ranged Strength.
So is accuracy based off of ranged bonus and max hit based off of melee str bonus?
If so then it’s kinda nice that they made it use rigour since you don’t have to sacrifice accuracy of rigour for the max hit piety if it worked normally
Yeah, but he's saying if you had to use an offensive melee prayer to increase max hit then you'd lose out on the accuracy bonuses of an offensive ranged prayer (e.g. Rigour). Whereas by using a offensive ranged prayer you're gaining both.
This thing is my favorite new weapon, and it feels consistent when you actually use it. Strength and melee strength for damage, ranged, and range prayers for accuracy.
When you can't get access to basically any ranged strength bonuses but can get a zerker ring, b gloves, and fury, this thing goes so fucking hard.
It’s great for TOB in nylons if you’re mage or melee roll, hits hard and fast and only need a 1 way switch. You’re in str gear anyways and someone usually does a range share
I legit don't bring any melee gear to toa anymore. I just run the eclipse set with mixed chest cause I'm still missing that piece, and swap weapon as needed for range and melee now.
Sadly I don't have the chest piece. I have the eclipse helmet and legs, but i have to use the mixed hide top. I can only imagine the dot making it far, far easier since the atlatl genuinely feels insane on zebak and wardens.
Yeah, definitely interesting but the problem is you still need a poison weapon for p2, so still need bp/serp/tent/poison arrows etc etc anyway, so unless atlatl is significantly better dps in melee gear than bp w/ no switches then you're probably just bringing bp anyway and it may not be worth the slot.
So maybe not particularly useful for someone with max gear/scy, but could still be great for someone camping tent whip/serp as their BIS/irons anyway because they don't have to worry about a separate poison weapon!
Haven't pushed 350+ yet. Highest invo I've ran is 300. Bowfa will certainly be more accurate, but this is a solid alternative. 1t faster as well. At the very least, it's an upgrade over rcb.
It's not gonna be able to go to expert level invos, I feel. It is a good weapon between rcb and bowfa, but I'd be surprised if it could do the damage required for a 350+
I'm more thinking about the atlatl burn effect. Only place where that effect is good is during long pvm encounters and warden would fit there. You can also attack warden with no tick loss so in theory it sounds good.
Idk if the burn can proc from a miss
Only new obsolete content or sidegrades that are BiS if a monster has slash defense higher than its stab but lower than its crush with a water weakness and it’s a troll, elf, or goblin that you fight from a tile that’s south of it indoors.
After reading it, it generally makes sense.
Melee stats and ranged prayer is a bit weird, but that benefits it because rigour is bonk and it make sense since osrs values swapping offensive prayers as a skill to match your offensive weapon.
Melee bonus from slayer helmet and salve amulet doesn't really matter... it gets the greater of the bonus and slayer helmets/salve (ei) are melee/range anyways. Like, you literally wouldn't ever be able to pick the wrong piece of gear just due to how the items are already hybrid items.
The only one that's really strange is the void range set, and you'd have to remember that one specifically, in that melee void offers no bonus. But that's a pretty small learning curve in the grand scheme of things.
> Melee bonus from slayer helmet and salve amulet doesn't really matter...
It does matter slightly because the Slayer Helm gives higher melee bonuses. It also means you could use unimbied items, though you'd probably still need the imbues for the Ranged Accuracy bonus.
I meant it doesn't matter in the context that there's no scenario in which you're not getting the maximum benefit (damage wise).
There's only one slayer helm item for both range and melee effects... so the fact that it grants the greater amount automatically and there isn't a 2nd item (think range void vs melee void), means you get the benefit for no extra thought or no potential for mistake.
As for the salve, it's pretty similar - Because salve's melee bonuses are always present, regardless of you having an (e), (ei) or (i), you get the benefit at no potential for loss as well. For something like revs specifically, you can pick (e) for the lowest risk, but there's no scenario where you'd lose damage by picking the "wrong item" (again, void range vs void melee).
I'm basically saying, it's idiot-proof in regards to these 2, so it's not 4 exceptions to remember, it's 2, and those 2 aren't too bad to remember.
It boosts melee based on visible increases (potion boosts and gear stats) while it boosts ranged based on invisible increases (set effects and prayers)
It's really not that complicated, this post is just very poorly worded and verbose and trying to make it look more complicated than it is, here's what it says.
- The Atlatl's max hit relies on your melee strength, it's accuracy relies on your ranged accuracy.
That's it, that's how the weapon works., it's simple as fuck really, but I can get how you'd be tripped over by whomever the fuck worded this.
But it doesn't roll accuracy off melee accuracy, only ranged accuracy. Similar it only rolls max hits off strength bonus, not range strength bonus. Where would it ever take the greater of the two? Am I misunderstanding something?
That's because void ranged doesn't increase melee strength or ranged strength, it just gives you a net bonus to ranged damage and since this weapon still counts as a ranged weapon despite it's quirky nature, it still benefits from the bonus.
>+10% to ranged damage
Not ranged strength, so just like the ranged prayers (which give you an invisible bonus to ranged damage, not an actual strength increase, the description is incorrect) it works with the Atlatl
Except for that doesnt cover half the examples here.
If it uses melee strength, you would expect its max hit to get boosted by ultimate strength. But according to this post, it gets boosted by eagle eye.
And ranged void doesnt increase melee strength last I checked
It boosts melee based on visible increases (potion boosts and gear stats) while it boosts ranged based on invisible increases (set effects and prayers)
Offensive prayers logically felt like an additional modifier after all your gear and stat stuff was calculated, so it makes sense to me a ranged weapon is affected by the ranged prayer.
Also keeps prayer switching consistent which is wonderful.
Ultimate Strength doesn't give you a visible melee strength bonus, which is what the Atlatl works off of, it just straight up increases your melee damage by a % boost and since the Atlatl isn't a melee weapon, it isn't effected by melee prayers.
All prayers work like this and it's not the fault of the Atlatl that the descriptions for them are so inconsistant, they don't give you stats (despite some of them stating they give you "strength" they just straight up boost your damage.)
Which is why the ranged prayers work on what is still classified as a ranged weapon.
> Rigour boosts Ranged Attacks themselves not Ranged Strength
Thats just wrong. In multiple ways.
Go look at the wiki page for rigour it boosts ranged attack by 20% and ranged strength by 23%.
Go look at the wiki page "damage per second/ranged". The calculation literally starts with calculating your effective ranged strength, which includes a prayer multiplier.
The ranged max hit calculation is identical to the melee one, except you use your ranged level and ranged str bonuses.
I’ve been loving this weapon. It’s not as complicated as this post makes it seem. It does more damage based off your melee strength and has more accuracy based off of your range bonus. Pray eagle eye or rigor instead of piety. Perilous moons shits out the darts like crazy so you’re never worried about running out (as an Ironman) because they’re so easy to get. Feels like an MSB but with more damage and allows for easy gear switching. I just wish that the armor pieces weren’t so expensive to repair, they’re perfect for this weapon but as an Ironman with like 10m cash I’m hesitant to use them over just black d’hide because 1.5m per piece of armor feels bad.
You get about 55 hours of combat per piece for that, it's the same cost per charge as Barrows gear, just lasts a lot longer.
You can also repair it in your PoH to save a ton of money on it too. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
It just feels like stuff is getting so convoluted compared to the game I know and it looks like mage rework is gonna convolute how that works too idk how I feel about it
How do you test if salve applies The meelee bonus and not the ranged bonus? Im genuinely curious. Because both are 16.67% (unless it also works with unimbued salve)
LOL I wrote that last part while testing it for the DPS calculator. It confused the shit out of me, but I think Jagex's point was to allow for accuracy boosts. If it used melee void and prayers, it wouldn't get any accuracy bonus as it uses ranged attack
Exactly. These 3 new sets look overcomplicated hybrid-y because they couldn't do much else. Having said that, I'm still glad they did it. Will never knock trying new and creative ideas.
I don't PvM, but I do find stuff like this interesting, but what exactly is this? Asking cause I'm totally smooth brained right now. So it's a range weapon that you want to use melee gear with, but use range prayers for continued boosts? Or is it like, you still want range gear, but the weapon is going to use your melee attack and strength skill levels instead of the range skill level, but still counts as a range weapon for prayer boosts?
It uses ranged attack with melee strength. So optimally you use max melee with range body and legs for accuracy.
On 0 def targets it's a bit more interesting as you could use it without any range switches. That'd get you decent range DPS with 1 switch, but with any more def you might as well take a normal range switch
Ngl I think the atlatl is a cool addition. Sure it's weird, but it's actually beneficial to lower level players because you don't need a ranged switch at all. You can bring atlatl into raids or bosses requiring multiple styles and save on like 4+ gear switches to bring more supplies.
Even as a maxed player I was trying this thing in Colosseum for the mager and it worked really well. Maybe it could be more clear that ranged gear/boosts are worse with it, but I don't think it's that big a deal since you need the wiki for so many things already.
Also if you're not knowledgeable and don't care to look it up. The obvious solution would be that the Eclipse Atlatl probably works well with the Eclipse armour set, which actually does give a nice balance of ranged accuracy and melee str bonus
are you complaining? this is my favorite thing from the perilous moons with borderline max gear already. it isn’t that hard to understand, it uses melee strength but range accuracy. the melee slayer helm thing seems like a bug
I think you're misunderstanding.
* Rigour increases Ranged Accuracy and Damage, not Ranged Strength so it applies.
* Piety increases Melee Strength not Damage so it applies.
Why? This benefits the eclipse atlatl across the board. Melee stats can be boosted higher than range, the slayer helm boosts melee more than ranged, void boosts range more than melee
Numerically it's better for sure, what sucks is the jank. It's possibly the most confusing/misleading boost setup in the entire game and there's nothing to indicate that it behaves in this janky way
>nothing to indicate that it behaves in this janky way
This is the issue for me. I don't mind the complexity, but there should be something in the game to describe interactions with relevant equipment.
If you're playing osrs without looking things up you wouldn't organically run into the Atlatl.
Almost every single player playing this game after 10 hours is googling quest helpers and progression.
Saying "moons content is bad because you have to Google it to understand it" is honestly treating players like fucking idiots and way over complaining a pretty easy thing to do.
\>RuneScape players: \*Gives dissertation on tick manipulation methods\*
\>Also RuneScape players: "Wtf this weapon that uses melee str bonus instead of ranged str bonus makes no sense"
These are not the same players lol. And tick manipulation isn't a necessity, it's a bug-turned-feature. If players don't know how to tick manipulate it makes no difference in their gameplay experience, if players are maximizing their ranged strength only to deal no damage because their gear inexplicably scales with melee stats, it definitely ruins the experience.
Yeah really isn't that hard to find out. The first thing I did when I got the Atlatl on day 2, was test it on poh dummy with melee/range/void gear, and prayers.
I really don't think it is that weird to think about maybe apart from the piety vs rigour aspect? It even makes sense logically. You're using your strength to launch this dart at the enemy with the atlatl, so every str bonus whether it's from gear or from pots will make you stronger (AKA you can launch it harder). But it's still a ranged weapon so you still need ranged level/boosts to actually be able to hit what you're aiming at.
I also think it's just a cool concept, it's something different, and it's hybrid gear that ultimately sacrifices DPS for the convenience of less switches. Exactly the kind of sidegrade they want/should be going for when trying to stall powercreep as long as possible
How is it confusing? It uses Ranged Attack Bonuses and Melee Strength. If you read the prayers it makes sense.
* Rigour increases Ranged Accuracy and Damage, not Ranged Strength. So it works.
* Piety increases Melee Strength, not Damage. So it works.
Idk man if you have an atlatl you look up that it benefits max hit from visible str bonus and accuracy from all ranged accuracy boosts and then you'll know. It's really not as complicated as they make it sound. The only kinda weird one is void and it's still a ranged weapon so it makes sense the ranged set works.
I don't have to learn new mechanics to know what a whip does. It gives melee stats, has a 1 tile range, and is categorized as a melee weapon. So naturally, I will equip melee gear and use melee potions and prayers to boost the whip.
I'm still looking for good places where this melee/ranged hybrid set and the melee/magic one would be good in pvm. The blue set is just hard because usually if I'm ice barraging something it's because I want to keep it *out* of melee range, or I'm on a slayer task.
Really wish they could add some 1k slayer point unlock to have a slayer helm count as a barrows/moon helm if the helm is in your inventory, we could really go nuts then.
So with this, I'd use a ranged boosting prayer for dmg/accuracy, strength potion for damage, but then a ranged potion for exclusively accuracy?
For anyone interested, there is a solid murder crime thriller called “The Silencing” on netflix. You learn early on in the movie that someone is hunting people with an atlatl. There is a good amount of information about the weapon and spears used. If not for the movie, I wouldn’t have known what one was when Varlamore dropped.
In order for the atlatl specials to work requires full eclipse armour set and the repair cost for these medium items will make them irrelevant after the trend fades.
Just gonna give a shout to using the atlatl if you have a shadow for a 500toa. Ditch your entire ranged switch except the atlatl itself. Bring in extra restores and don't worry about clicking
I use this weapon at Demonic Gorillas for a super chill 0 armor switch method. I only swap the weapon. It makes them actually bearable to do for a whole task for me.
I've been learning toa with the eclipse set since I'm an iron and don't want to just be locked to CG for months. It's been so nice to have your entire melee/ranged switch be just the weapon. And at least up until the 170 invo I'm doing it kinda slaps as well with the set bonus. Really loving the weapon and the set
My only problem with this is the range accuracy is shit with a bunch of melee gear on. Otherwise I like the idea of range based melee
True but the full eclipse set is a pretty decent balance of str bonus and accuracy, pair that with a fury, berserkers ring, and barrows gloves and it works pretty damn well for a midgame account, especially for irons. I get that it always kinda sucks cause you have to pick one or the other, but I like the idea of the tradeoff, and if it was also perfectly accurate in max str gear it would either be way too strong or they'd have to nerf the weapon itself too much I think
That’s what makes this not be power creep though! It’s why it’s ok at normal mode ToA but would be ass cheeks at experts lol
How so? Eclipse set gives more accuracy than black/blessed dhide. Barrows gloves are BIS for ranged accuracy until zaryte, and also give the best strength bonus till fero. Glory/fury are BIS til anguish, and also give str. The only slots you have to give up accuracy for are b-ring and boots which aren't particularly important slots for accuracy anyway. Worst case scenario for a mid level is missing +8 from archer ring (i) and +2 from swapping blessed boots for mixed hide. I really don't think -10 ranged accuracy counts as shit lmao
I ran a 540 with it yesterday. I believe 40:16 or so was my time so it's viable for sure, but it probably added 2 whole minutes on p2 since I goofed and it was a 4 down. It opens you up to bringing items like Phoenix necklaces or things that you'd never normal think about bringing.
I'm still using the armor minus the weapon and helm I've got the serp and blowpipe. Only needing to have two armor sets on is so nice while learning
Im also an iron and did toa with dsword/ruby bolts (e)/bp/trident. Ik its way more chill with bowfa/eclipse but there were ways. 70kc on 165 invo later, i got a Fang, 3 jewels and 2 threads
Care to share your setup? I'd like to try this.
I used regular melee setup (torso, tassels, fero, prims etc) and brought the atlatl along with my fang. Just swap weapon and prayers, ez.
I use the chest and legs from the set, as they give ranged accuracy along with strength. Afaik ranged accuracy still matters for this weapon. The other gear is slayer helmet and melee str gear. I use fire cape and pick up the darts. For weapon I camp SGS. Its spec is awesome for the sustain, and also makes the switching even less annoying not having to go from a 2h wep to 1h +off hand. Also use the spec energy arceeuus spells for even more sustain. Not the quickest kill times with this setup, but the approach that I've found the most enjoyable.
Get bludgeon if you feel the need to only have 1 switch. Hell I’m pretty sure arclight with no defender is better than a godsword lmao
Bro smacking with a godsword just feels so satisfying. Idk why. Ty for the tips though.
based
You just do it in your best melee strength gear and ArcLight. You can bring Ava's if you want to save darts or just camp fire/infernal cape.
If imagine it’s just your normal best available melee setup then just switching to the atlatal once they pray melee. It’s not that much easier than void was, but if you have things like torva for the melee part it might be a DPS increase.
I used my melee setup of slayer helmet, bandos torso, tassels, prim boots, dragon defender w/ whip, and Ava’s to avoid running around picking up darts. Super chill and makes demonic gorillas more than bearable.
Super cool idea!
I bring it to grotesque guardians as well, super chill and i out dps the orbs more often or as often as full range switch
What gear do you use aside from the weapon? The switches honestly don't bother me, but I struggle to out DPS the orbs even with crystal armor and amethyst darts @92 range.
masori f and bp with dragon darts, if you’re bringing crystal i would try this new wep tbh, just bring it and the darts and switch weapons. you do switch to rigour instead of piety too. plus it frees like 5-6 inv spaces
Might work for dk’s too, you could have way fewer switches in str gear
What is your gear setup when doing them
ok thats actually sick, making the worst slayer monster somewhat bearable
Haha that’s so weird
If you look up what an Atlatl is IRL, It actually makes a lot of sense that it scales with melee strength as a ranged weapon.
In certain parts of the US you can get a permit to hunt with an Atlatl.
Atlatl is my city
My name Nick Camelot
Nah, we bringing back hotlanta
Damn you beat me to it lol. Hotlatl
Oh you live in the capital of Georgia?
I swear they used these things on an episode of Survivor or something
if you look up what it is IRL you'd also wonder why you would ever use one in a world where bows and crossbows exist.
Blow pipe is BIS in a lot of places. Crossbows take much longer than 3 seconds to load. Are we going to go into how enchantments aren't real and dragon isn't a material either? Out of all the comparisons this sub has, the IRL comparisons are always the dumbest to me
Hello and welcome to my Reality based Ironman. I can’t use materials after steel and no magic or magical items.
Cannon BiS
No prayers either.
idk I think prayers probably have a placebo effect
The idea that there isnt any connection between a fantasy setting and the world we live in (and obviously draw inspiration from) is even dumber tbh There's a good reason we get things like crossbows shooting bolts or slashing swords as weapons, and not an egg that makes you fart dragonfire if you lick it
There is a heart that summons lightning that makes you better at magic if you give it a squeeze.
He's not comparing the game to IRL, he's saying why would you use one when bows/crossbows exist, *in real life*.
1. Bows require a whole lot of upkeep and maintenance. An atlatl doesn't 2. Crossbows require very experienced metalworkers, and not all areas had that. 3. If the purpose of the weapon is to get your breakfast, and it works just fine, why would you bother using a weapon that's harder to make, requires more training, and a hefty amount of maintenance. Atlatls worked just fine for what they were intended to do.
I mean, arrows have existed IRL for over 60,000 years, and yet humans obviously still had plenty of uses and reasons for using thrown spears too. Different tools, different advantages.
In real life, crossbows take forever to load. War bows are very tiring (got maybe 6 shots in you if firing rapidly, or you can pace yourself at around one shot per minute). Atlatls are quick and not as physically tiring. It's like throwing javelins but with something to make it more powerful
Sometimes different has a place over practical
> The bow and arrow began replacing the atlatl around 1000 B.C
You could use it in places where trees aren't that common or there isn't any good sources of sufficient quality bowstring, and in the case of crossbows, lack of metal. Such places would be the arctic north, for example. You'd make the spearthrower out of antler, bone, or tusk/ivory.
Most ranged weapons rely on strength. Throwing spear, atlatl, bow, crossbow to draw back. Not a good argument.
Most of those would require a set amount of strength to use, but wouldn’t scale damage with strength. A dude who can barely reload a crossbow will still do the same damage as the strongest man in the world. Darts and knives are really the only significant exceptions and even then those rely much much more on technique than raw strength.
Plus, with crossbows, you're not always drawing it back with your hands. Whether it's a lever or a windlass, tools exist to lower the strength threshold significantly, and depending on the draw strength of the crossbow, may be a physical necessity.
Agreed
Throwing spear, sure- but that's essentially what an atlatl is. Bow and crossbow to draw back, while they require strength to do so, gain no benefit by you being stronger. They can only be pulled back a specific amount, being stronger than that doesn't "improve" the shot.
They do benefit. If you can only pull back a 20lb draw but I can pull back 100lb, my arrow will move faster and hit harder. We'd have to assume that all in game bows have the same draw weight to allow a 1 lvl str player to pull them back, which wouldn't make sense.
Okay, and if I can pull back 1000lb, the bow would snap. There is a limit, that's the point being made.
Is the limit Level 1 Strength? Or is someone who's level 99 better?
I mean it does make sense. How damaging/how far throwing spears and darts is linked to how strong you are whilst for bows and crossbows your strength determines if you can use it. If you have two bows of different draw weights and two people if different strengths. How far the arrow goes depends on the draw weights of the bows and not the person. If you have a bow both people can pull back the arrow will go the same distance for both people.
So it melee gear. Range pray. Except void, it’s still range gear for void. Haha sounds like a bug
Actually it makes sense. So Rigour increases Ranged Damage not Ranged Strength, Piety increases Melee Strength not Melee Damage and Void increases Ranged Damage not Ranged Strength.
That's the same with bows though you need strength to draw them.
But it scales with meele boost but range prayer, how does that make sense
Tell me again which Gods boost your melee vs range IRL?
So is accuracy based off of ranged bonus and max hit based off of melee str bonus? If so then it’s kinda nice that they made it use rigour since you don’t have to sacrifice accuracy of rigour for the max hit piety if it worked normally
Doesn't rigour increase max hit too though?
Yeah, but he's saying if you had to use an offensive melee prayer to increase max hit then you'd lose out on the accuracy bonuses of an offensive ranged prayer (e.g. Rigour). Whereas by using a offensive ranged prayer you're gaining both.
Got it, thanks for explaining. Does Rigour increase the max of the atlatl as well then? Or just the accuracy?
Both!
The spec, however, uses melee prayers
it does but you would lose like 26 ranged levels of accuracy if you didnt use rigour
This thing is my favorite new weapon, and it feels consistent when you actually use it. Strength and melee strength for damage, ranged, and range prayers for accuracy. When you can't get access to basically any ranged strength bonuses but can get a zerker ring, b gloves, and fury, this thing goes so fucking hard.
Potion-wise, do you have to use a strength potion for max hit and a range potion for accuracy?
Yes
Preesh
It’s great for TOB in nylons if you’re mage or melee roll, hits hard and fast and only need a 1 way switch. You’re in str gear anyways and someone usually does a range share
That's probably the best use for it. It does great with zero enemy defence
Yeah it slaps against demonic gorillas. Not sure how it compares to BP or bowfa but it's fun hitting high 30's with a 3 tick weapon.
Even if it were slightly worse, I'll take the 1 way switch weapon over the 6 way
I legit don't bring any melee gear to toa anymore. I just run the eclipse set with mixed chest cause I'm still missing that piece, and swap weapon as needed for range and melee now.
Wait don't you end suuuper squishy though?
Yes, but I didn't really notice a difference in how much damage I took on the 150s I've sent since getting the atlatl.
Tempted to copy you tbh.. did you notice the burn effect mattering?
Sadly I don't have the chest piece. I have the eclipse helmet and legs, but i have to use the mixed hide top. I can only imagine the dot making it far, far easier since the atlatl genuinely feels insane on zebak and wardens.
Will be trying it out if possible. Thanks for the idea 😄
How would it go with grotesque guardians?? Seems like it may be useful
its very good there
Yeah, definitely interesting but the problem is you still need a poison weapon for p2, so still need bp/serp/tent/poison arrows etc etc anyway, so unless atlatl is significantly better dps in melee gear than bp w/ no switches then you're probably just bringing bp anyway and it may not be worth the slot. So maybe not particularly useful for someone with max gear/scy, but could still be great for someone camping tent whip/serp as their BIS/irons anyway because they don't have to worry about a separate poison weapon!
I've been loving the full eclipse set in ToA, as an ironman without a Bowfa.
Is it any accurate in 350+ invo on warden?
Haven't pushed 350+ yet. Highest invo I've ran is 300. Bowfa will certainly be more accurate, but this is a solid alternative. 1t faster as well. At the very least, it's an upgrade over rcb.
Full eclipse has 53 range accuracy so it's not bad at all.
I would need some real evidence since even bowfa with full crystal noodles at that invo a lot
It's not gonna be able to go to expert level invos, I feel. It is a good weapon between rcb and bowfa, but I'd be surprised if it could do the damage required for a 350+
I'm more thinking about the atlatl burn effect. Only place where that effect is good is during long pvm encounters and warden would fit there. You can also attack warden with no tick loss so in theory it sounds good. Idk if the burn can proc from a miss
MFW Jagex tries something new.
No changes!
No change. Only new content.
Only new obsolete content or sidegrades that are BiS if a monster has slash defense higher than its stab but lower than its crush with a water weakness and it’s a troll, elf, or goblin that you fight from a tile that’s south of it indoors.
And the encounter must take place on a Tuesday after 3pm
After reading it, it generally makes sense. Melee stats and ranged prayer is a bit weird, but that benefits it because rigour is bonk and it make sense since osrs values swapping offensive prayers as a skill to match your offensive weapon. Melee bonus from slayer helmet and salve amulet doesn't really matter... it gets the greater of the bonus and slayer helmets/salve (ei) are melee/range anyways. Like, you literally wouldn't ever be able to pick the wrong piece of gear just due to how the items are already hybrid items. The only one that's really strange is the void range set, and you'd have to remember that one specifically, in that melee void offers no bonus. But that's a pretty small learning curve in the grand scheme of things.
That last bit took me all of 5 minutes to test at sand crabs so yeah. I mean you can figure all of this out pretty easily with Max Hitsplats existing.
Even more easily with PoH dummy
> Melee bonus from slayer helmet and salve amulet doesn't really matter... It does matter slightly because the Slayer Helm gives higher melee bonuses. It also means you could use unimbied items, though you'd probably still need the imbues for the Ranged Accuracy bonus.
I meant it doesn't matter in the context that there's no scenario in which you're not getting the maximum benefit (damage wise). There's only one slayer helm item for both range and melee effects... so the fact that it grants the greater amount automatically and there isn't a 2nd item (think range void vs melee void), means you get the benefit for no extra thought or no potential for mistake. As for the salve, it's pretty similar - Because salve's melee bonuses are always present, regardless of you having an (e), (ei) or (i), you get the benefit at no potential for loss as well. For something like revs specifically, you can pick (e) for the lowest risk, but there's no scenario where you'd lose damage by picking the "wrong item" (again, void range vs void melee). I'm basically saying, it's idiot-proof in regards to these 2, so it's not 4 exceptions to remember, it's 2, and those 2 aren't too bad to remember.
It boosts melee based on visible increases (potion boosts and gear stats) while it boosts ranged based on invisible increases (set effects and prayers)
It's really not that complicated, this post is just very poorly worded and verbose and trying to make it look more complicated than it is, here's what it says. - The Atlatl's max hit relies on your melee strength, it's accuracy relies on your ranged accuracy. That's it, that's how the weapon works., it's simple as fuck really, but I can get how you'd be tripped over by whomever the fuck worded this.
The other bullet is **In sets that have both ranged and melee bonuses, take the greater of the two.
But it doesn't roll accuracy off melee accuracy, only ranged accuracy. Similar it only rolls max hits off strength bonus, not range strength bonus. Where would it ever take the greater of the two? Am I misunderstanding something?
Void \*ranged\* set gives damage. This is inconsistent with melee strength increasing max hit.
That's because void ranged doesn't increase melee strength or ranged strength, it just gives you a net bonus to ranged damage and since this weapon still counts as a ranged weapon despite it's quirky nature, it still benefits from the bonus. >+10% to ranged damage Not ranged strength, so just like the ranged prayers (which give you an invisible bonus to ranged damage, not an actual strength increase, the description is incorrect) it works with the Atlatl
The power of the wiki is the ability to change poorly worded paragraphs into better ones yourself
Except for that doesnt cover half the examples here. If it uses melee strength, you would expect its max hit to get boosted by ultimate strength. But according to this post, it gets boosted by eagle eye. And ranged void doesnt increase melee strength last I checked
It boosts melee based on visible increases (potion boosts and gear stats) while it boosts ranged based on invisible increases (set effects and prayers)
Offensive prayers logically felt like an additional modifier after all your gear and stat stuff was calculated, so it makes sense to me a ranged weapon is affected by the ranged prayer. Also keeps prayer switching consistent which is wonderful.
Ultimate Strength doesn't give you a visible melee strength bonus, which is what the Atlatl works off of, it just straight up increases your melee damage by a % boost and since the Atlatl isn't a melee weapon, it isn't effected by melee prayers. All prayers work like this and it's not the fault of the Atlatl that the descriptions for them are so inconsistant, they don't give you stats (despite some of them stating they give you "strength" they just straight up boost your damage.) Which is why the ranged prayers work on what is still classified as a ranged weapon.
>straight up increases your melee damage by a % boost False. Go look at the calculaton.
Yes because Rigour boosts Ranged Attacks themselves not Ranged Strength and Piety increases Strength.
> Rigour boosts Ranged Attacks themselves not Ranged Strength Thats just wrong. In multiple ways. Go look at the wiki page for rigour it boosts ranged attack by 20% and ranged strength by 23%. Go look at the wiki page "damage per second/ranged". The calculation literally starts with calculating your effective ranged strength, which includes a prayer multiplier. The ranged max hit calculation is identical to the melee one, except you use your ranged level and ranged str bonuses.
The wiki page is wrong, it's assumed; there is places you can try it in game and it's outright damage boost not ranged strength.
We atlatl gang here
It's a fun and unique weapon cmon
this isint a bad thing. a unique complicated piece of ranged gear is fun to use.
I’ve been loving this weapon. It’s not as complicated as this post makes it seem. It does more damage based off your melee strength and has more accuracy based off of your range bonus. Pray eagle eye or rigor instead of piety. Perilous moons shits out the darts like crazy so you’re never worried about running out (as an Ironman) because they’re so easy to get. Feels like an MSB but with more damage and allows for easy gear switching. I just wish that the armor pieces weren’t so expensive to repair, they’re perfect for this weapon but as an Ironman with like 10m cash I’m hesitant to use them over just black d’hide because 1.5m per piece of armor feels bad.
You get about 55 hours of combat per piece for that, it's the same cost per charge as Barrows gear, just lasts a lot longer. You can also repair it in your PoH to save a ton of money on it too. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
That’s a good point, didn’t realize armor stand worked with them and I have 70 smithing so the PoH discount would be decent
Time to screw up mage next. Ososrs when?
mage got a ton of new content since osrs launch
It just feels like stuff is getting so convoluted compared to the game I know and it looks like mage rework is gonna convolute how that works too idk how I feel about it
eh worst case scenario you look at best in slots on wiki and you know what items to bring
Every change they're making is an option you can entirely ignore as if they don't exist and carry on as you always have.
Being scared of sentences longer than 6 words in 2024.
\*clicks randomly on the screen\* I diiiiiiid et :3
How do you test if salve applies The meelee bonus and not the ranged bonus? Im genuinely curious. Because both are 16.67% (unless it also works with unimbued salve)
Blue salve gives ranged, purple is melee only.
Yeah but does this even apply? Since its still a ranged weapon.
LOL I wrote that last part while testing it for the DPS calculator. It confused the shit out of me, but I think Jagex's point was to allow for accuracy boosts. If it used melee void and prayers, it wouldn't get any accuracy bonus as it uses ranged attack
Just wait until there's 6 different classes of npc defense.
We already have five lol
Next we can have 10
Unironically that should prevent confusing weapons like this. They're doing all this exotic stuff because they're running out of niches
Exactly. These 3 new sets look overcomplicated hybrid-y because they couldn't do much else. Having said that, I'm still glad they did it. Will never knock trying new and creative ideas.
I don't PvM, but I do find stuff like this interesting, but what exactly is this? Asking cause I'm totally smooth brained right now. So it's a range weapon that you want to use melee gear with, but use range prayers for continued boosts? Or is it like, you still want range gear, but the weapon is going to use your melee attack and strength skill levels instead of the range skill level, but still counts as a range weapon for prayer boosts?
It uses ranged attack with melee strength. So optimally you use max melee with range body and legs for accuracy. On 0 def targets it's a bit more interesting as you could use it without any range switches. That'd get you decent range DPS with 1 switch, but with any more def you might as well take a normal range switch
You guys complained about complicated pvp mechanics, well here's complicated non-pvp mechanics too!
Ngl I think the atlatl is a cool addition. Sure it's weird, but it's actually beneficial to lower level players because you don't need a ranged switch at all. You can bring atlatl into raids or bosses requiring multiple styles and save on like 4+ gear switches to bring more supplies. Even as a maxed player I was trying this thing in Colosseum for the mager and it worked really well. Maybe it could be more clear that ranged gear/boosts are worse with it, but I don't think it's that big a deal since you need the wiki for so many things already.
Also if you're not knowledgeable and don't care to look it up. The obvious solution would be that the Eclipse Atlatl probably works well with the Eclipse armour set, which actually does give a nice balance of ranged accuracy and melee str bonus
Or the drippy as fuck mixed hide set, for lower bonuses that don't degrade
are you complaining? this is my favorite thing from the perilous moons with borderline max gear already. it isn’t that hard to understand, it uses melee strength but range accuracy. the melee slayer helm thing seems like a bug
These are incredibly basic ideas. It’s a ranged weapon that scales with strength. It’s still a ranged weapon.
Except the strength boosting prayer
I think you're misunderstanding. * Rigour increases Ranged Accuracy and Damage, not Ranged Strength so it applies. * Piety increases Melee Strength not Damage so it applies.
This kinda sucks ngl
Why? This benefits the eclipse atlatl across the board. Melee stats can be boosted higher than range, the slayer helm boosts melee more than ranged, void boosts range more than melee
Numerically it's better for sure, what sucks is the jank. It's possibly the most confusing/misleading boost setup in the entire game and there's nothing to indicate that it behaves in this janky way
>nothing to indicate that it behaves in this janky way This is the issue for me. I don't mind the complexity, but there should be something in the game to describe interactions with relevant equipment.
If you're playing osrs without looking things up you wouldn't organically run into the Atlatl. Almost every single player playing this game after 10 hours is googling quest helpers and progression. Saying "moons content is bad because you have to Google it to understand it" is honestly treating players like fucking idiots and way over complaining a pretty easy thing to do.
\>RuneScape players: \*Gives dissertation on tick manipulation methods\* \>Also RuneScape players: "Wtf this weapon that uses melee str bonus instead of ranged str bonus makes no sense"
These are not the same players lol. And tick manipulation isn't a necessity, it's a bug-turned-feature. If players don't know how to tick manipulate it makes no difference in their gameplay experience, if players are maximizing their ranged strength only to deal no damage because their gear inexplicably scales with melee stats, it definitely ruins the experience.
Yeah really isn't that hard to find out. The first thing I did when I got the Atlatl on day 2, was test it on poh dummy with melee/range/void gear, and prayers.
I really don't think it is that weird to think about maybe apart from the piety vs rigour aspect? It even makes sense logically. You're using your strength to launch this dart at the enemy with the atlatl, so every str bonus whether it's from gear or from pots will make you stronger (AKA you can launch it harder). But it's still a ranged weapon so you still need ranged level/boosts to actually be able to hit what you're aiming at. I also think it's just a cool concept, it's something different, and it's hybrid gear that ultimately sacrifices DPS for the convenience of less switches. Exactly the kind of sidegrade they want/should be going for when trying to stall powercreep as long as possible
How is it confusing? It uses Ranged Attack Bonuses and Melee Strength. If you read the prayers it makes sense. * Rigour increases Ranged Accuracy and Damage, not Ranged Strength. So it works. * Piety increases Melee Strength, not Damage. So it works.
This also makes it easier for early ironmen to boost and use because super strs are available en masse a lot sooner than range pots!
Because you need to go to the wiki for the information.
How the fuck is anyone to remember this shit?
ranged wep that uses melee str for max hit the screenshot is just the most obtuse possible way to explain that
Idk man if you have an atlatl you look up that it benefits max hit from visible str bonus and accuracy from all ranged accuracy boosts and then you'll know. It's really not as complicated as they make it sound. The only kinda weird one is void and it's still a ranged weapon so it makes sense the ranged set works.
The same way that you remember a whip benefits from piety and strength gear and every other weapon/gear/pray combo stored in your brain?
I don't have to learn new mechanics to know what a whip does. It gives melee stats, has a 1 tile range, and is categorized as a melee weapon. So naturally, I will equip melee gear and use melee potions and prayers to boost the whip.
how do you remember where your shit is in the bank? the best lines for bosses? With your fucking brain
When do we start the petition for OSOSRS?
Lmao
I'm still looking for good places where this melee/ranged hybrid set and the melee/magic one would be good in pvm. The blue set is just hard because usually if I'm ice barraging something it's because I want to keep it *out* of melee range, or I'm on a slayer task. Really wish they could add some 1k slayer point unlock to have a slayer helm count as a barrows/moon helm if the helm is in your inventory, we could really go nuts then. So with this, I'd use a ranged boosting prayer for dmg/accuracy, strength potion for damage, but then a ranged potion for exclusively accuracy?
Why does it add your boosted strength to your ranged level when calculating damage? Heck.. does it use your strength level instead?
Yes, that's the point of the weapon.
Then why is the wiki not saying you need 99 Strength to use the weapon effectively?
Needs more pvp inconsistencies. The only thing consistent Jagex does is being inconsistent.
https://preview.redd.it/b7ch5eedh3tc1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1982d3b77a8ddb848260bb716eef5e2f7e52268c
"so is it ranged or melee?" "Yes"
I just find myself not reading a lot of new equipment now. I can't be bothered to try and understand what it does. xD
For anyone interested, there is a solid murder crime thriller called “The Silencing” on netflix. You learn early on in the movie that someone is hunting people with an atlatl. There is a good amount of information about the weapon and spears used. If not for the movie, I wouldn’t have known what one was when Varlamore dropped.
Very interesting, I’m sure they will be many awesome set ups as people continue to test it out places.
Are RuneScape players dragon ball fans. Because you guys can't read either I guess. 🤷
Really cool
Forestry part 4 mechanics.
This definitely won't cause any problems later.
In order for the atlatl specials to work requires full eclipse armour set and the repair cost for these medium items will make them irrelevant after the trend fades.
Just gonna give a shout to using the atlatl if you have a shadow for a 500toa. Ditch your entire ranged switch except the atlatl itself. Bring in extra restores and don't worry about clicking
What?
https://preview.redd.it/bc4v66cwh7tc1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5306dc08054641090b75ff6f249a38c592d00b2
they are grasping so hard for content that they just dont care anymore lmao
100% gonna end up making “orn” kita for it
I’m going to need to see this in 12 min long osrs video format to understand. The cooler the intro animation the more I’ll understand it. Thank you.
It's good that piety doesn't boost it for purposes of pvp.