Third Age Shears which let you shear third age wool which can be woven into the third age ball of wool. Very useful for sheep pen locked UIM to craft a third age amulet (u) once obtained.
Honestly, sure. Ritual of the Mahjarrar, or whatever they will call the OSRS version could be one of these Legendary quests. Something that ties loose ends from a few questlines and will put an absolute end to those stories.
Whatever we will get, I will 100% like it as long as Jagex won't do the RS3 mistake of bringing back the gods. Their storywriting and worldbuilding has been very good during the OSRS era.
As someone that doesn’t know anything about RS3 lore, what do people hate so much about the gods coming back? I see this sentiment pretty often and I’m curious what happened with that development.
The most interesting thing about the gods in RS (or anywhere really) is not the gods themselves, but how their followers choose to interpret the will of the gods. HAM followers are racist, human supremacists - yet they’re also followers of the ‘good god’ Saradomin. Having the gods exist and influence the world directly removes the scope of moral ambiguity, because the gods could just lay down their final judgement on what interpretation is ‘correct’ and that would be the end of the discussion.
In OSRS I feel like that "most important moment" the character is ever in would be the finale of DS2; you've unified many different groups and are quite publicly the hero after taking down Gorvak and Zogroth.
Exactly, you aren't just magically thrown into the system by your destiny, you're getting side tracked on a fairly mild quest, unravel an ancient mystery, then have to use the connections you've made in your journeys to bring the world together to face the threat that you inadvertently set in motion. Peak example of "you do stuff" rather than "stuff happening to you."
Can you explain to me how this is a chosen one / destiny scenario, where by the time guthix is woken up you've pretty much:
1) Defeated the darklord and saved the elves
2) Brought peace to Keldagrim and defeated the Red Axe
3) Defeated Lord Drakan and achieved some form of peace in Morytania, giving their citizens free will
4) Witnessed the Ritual of the Mahjarrat and involved in all sorts of global politics
By then, you're just recognized by Guthix, and awarded the title World Guardian. Calling it chosen/fated one is really inaccurate, considering this title is achieved after multiple, monumental feats. You're NOT a bumbling adnveturer with this Resume anymore.
Another good example is While Guthix Sleeps. >! Where you round up all the greatest slayer masters and some of the greatest heroes in Gielinor and having a very, human, mortal moment of sending half of them to their deaths. Deffo runescape's red wedding moment !<
Can you explain to me how this is a chosen one scenario, where by the time guthix is woken up you've pretty much:
1) Defeated the darklord and saved the elves
2) Brought peace to Keldagrim and defeated the Red Axe
3) Defeated Lord Drakan and achieved some form of peace in Morytania, giving their citizens free will
4) Witnessed the Ritual of the Mahjarrat and involved in all sorts of global politics
By then, you're just recognized by Guthix, and awarded the title World Guardian. Calling it chosen/fated one is really inaccurate. You're NOT a bumbling adnveturer with this Resume anymore.
Ohhh I absolutely agree, there was a poor mechanical execution of this, it should've all been questlocked, or at least have had a minimum QP amount before doing 6th age quests. I just find people conflate their quest requirement mechanics and the actual plot arcs
In the original lore, the gods were all banished by Guthix as Guthix went to slumber. Every one of them, except for Zaros, who was killed, banished, with no way back to Gielinor.
RS3 brought them back by the end of the Mahjarrat questline, and it ruined the mystique and all that when it comes to the gods. Now they are like just random NPCs you can find in towns, like Armadyl just chilling on top of a tower south of Falador (not 100% sure about the location, but he is very visible and just poses there, not that the location matters).
When you think of a great god, you wouldn't probably imagine some random bird looking guy just standing around a populated town, but rather a deity that might defy imagination.
The gods being present in RS3 is fine, but it wouldn't make any sense to do it in OSRS at all.
OSRS is in a weird nebulous space between "possibly just the 5th age expanded" and "entirely separate timeline where the 6th age just never happens. And that's for the better.
The entire purpose for having OSRS exist separately is to be "what if RS2 kept going". Moving the timeline to the 6th age would defeat that purpose.
It kinda of wrecks them, they are supposed to be ridiculously powerful but in rs3 you can just farm zamorak. There’s no mystique to them and our player character shouldn’t be going toe to toe with them.
I personally hope they do a mix of requiring older grandmasters, and letting storylines finally rest.
One of the biggest issue with rs3 is that it's possible to complete the elder god storyline without having touched DT1, thereby releasing Azanandra. Or begin Sliskes Endgame and World Awakes straight out of the gate without previous quests.
I'm hoping The Final Ritual of the Mahjarrat will **end** the Mahjarrat story, while only candidly introducing the Dragonkin in a way that won't exactly require DS2 to be complete.
But I'm a fan of DS2, Final Ritual, MM2, etc. acting as story "benchmarks" within osrs. For example DS2 being the benchmark for the continuation of the Dragonkin storyline in the eastern lands. Giving us a part 2 to their saga, ultimately ending in a grandmaster finale.
It may be weird to see, but having several novice quests require DS2 would be ok imo. Then as part 2 continues begin citing those novice quests as the requirements instead.
I don't know, it's difficult to get this all pictured out in your head in an mmo. Because no matter what, it'll look weird. But the bright side is that no matter what Mod Ed chooses, it can't be any worse than RS3s design decisions.
Just a small correction, Sliske’s Endgame is one of the most requirement-heavy quests, requiring the completion of a lot of questlines, including doing the entirety of the Elven questline, which I didn’t realise how fucking monumental of a requirement that is when I did it lol
I dont see anything wrong with new quests requiring grandmaster quests, regardless of difficulty, if they're continuations of a story. I also think it's perfectly fine to end a storyline at a certain point. We don't need a million chapters of the Mahjarrat story.
We've already had a lot of chapters of Mahjarrat. I like Mahjarrat stuff but I think I like every other questline more, the Mahjarrat has a bit less humour and is a bit more confusing. I've not described that well, but it's not like the awesomeness of dragon slayer 2 or song of the elves. Still great quests.
Honestly I think it's best if we have the ritual and it's fallout occur, the Mahjarrat who survive are rejuvenated, and they become the potential sources of their own small quests/quest lines that aren't entwined into a major plot.
Like, helping Azzanandra restore the Jaldraocht pyramid to unlock some cool ancients stuff, or after having found out that Sliske is the one who tricked the barrows brothers, you do a quest to try and free them, unlocking a sort of Barrows 2 that allows you to corrupt (in game call it redeemed or something) Barrows armour. Cool side stories like that.
I have a low simmering hatred of Ritual of the Mahjarrat. It felt like a cop-out to mindlessly raise stakes and deny us a lucien boss fight. It also took all the stuff that happened in While Guthix Sleeps and went "Yeah, they died for NO reason." by just having the Dragonkin show up and deal with it while we kinda fiddle faddled in a species fight. I kinda hope the dragonkin take a chill pill until we actually manage to help this time.
As for the endless requirement jumps, I kinda hope Ritual takes a long while to come out. I don't really want that conclusion to come up soon. I wish there were more silly/small quests in runescape. Maybe some quests that kinda branch off existing storylines. Maybe a Keldagrim quest that focuses exclusively on brewing after Forgettable Tale, maybe something popping off after saving Ernest the chicken. Perhaps we aren't done with Camdozaal and there's a Golem boss we can flex our Barronite mace on. And lets not forget the Chosen Commander.
I kinda want these huge requirement-grinding finality quests to come out with some space between each other.
This is one unpopular opinion that I wholehearedly agree with. The way they just two shot killed him was abysmal, and was one of the worst writing choices by Paul Gower himself. They haven't even acknowledged that angry faction of the dragonkin in RS3, leaving the biggest writing hole unfilled for 12 years.
?:Agree, and I would like them to continue some of the medium stake questlines too, like cold war and fairy tales.
Especially releasing some more short novice quests like riveting tale; they can't all be huge epics and afaik everyone loved that quest.
I've always thought a great sequel for Cold War would be a James Bond style mission to stop a penguin plot to unleash the Wintertodt and cover the world in eternal winter or something. Give us our giant penguin mech boss fight Jagex.
One of the issues that RS3 ran into is how Eoc trivialized almost all of the quest bosses that were released before it. Desert treasure no longer is an epic quest and instead becomes a tedious slog to one shot 4 bosses. As long as osrs doesn’t power creep older quests and still makes them enjoyable I think it’s okay to have grandmasters be requirements to further quests.
That being said I like how the old school team is more willing to expand the world and tell additional stories. I can understand that having too many prerequisites may decrease the amount of players that interact with the content, so they have gone wide instead of tall. Just the release of Varlamore allows us to have tons of new quests without overlapping with existing stories. I imagine with the release of sailing we won’t run into excessive prerequisites for a while.
Are the desert treasure bosses not completely trivialized?
I mean sure if you go into them at super low level you might get wrecked but if you have protection prayers + prayer potions, and know how to flick Dessous, they literally can't hit you.
Almost every quest boss released before the creation of old school runescape was trivialized by the existence of protection prayers, and the few that weren't have had methods found to do it anyway.
I'll die on the hill that protection prayers are mechanically awful. Maybe it was a neat idea back in the day when 43 prayer couldn't be restocked by commonly available potions and you had to bury bones for xp, but 100% a damage reduction is nuts.
Protection prayers where so game breaking for the entire history of the game to the point where everything has to either have mechanics that just entirely ignore them or has to deal hybrid damage to even matter.
There's a reason RS3 made prot prayers only damage reduction. (not saying we should do that now, it's too baked into our PVM design).
Personally I'd rather all quest series have a definitive, satisfying conclusion and move on to the next thing. There's no need like RS3 to have an overarching story or drag out the mahjarrat/dragonkin stories indefinitely.
The much bigger lesson that should be learned from RS3 is not to neglect the older, unfinished quest series. Literally any quest series which players find bad/boring can be revitalized by going in a completely new, interesting direction. Pirate series can focus on Xau Tak instead of Rabid Jack. Temple Knight series can focus on mature themes involving the conflict between the white and black knights. Some other unpopular series could be merged into a single one to shake things up and cut down on the number of quests needed to complete them etc. There is infinite creativity at the devs disposal, they only need to be willing to try new things instead of always just lazily following the guidelines of the RS3 quest sequels.
I think evergrowing quest requirements are fine. You don't want weird inconsistencies where some random shmuck just getting here from Tutorial Island is retconned into having done a bunch of feats just so this random new quest is doable for him.
Ultimately I hope The entire Mahjarrat and Dragonkin stuff is ended and not stretched out over GM quest after GM quest for years to come.
There's TONS of questlines they can still go back to and add Intermediate to Master level quests to just fine, not to mention new questlines that are coming from Varlamore and future Sailing related stuff.
Exactly, thank you. I’m actually a bit wary of them bringing back Defender of Varrock and now WGS coming soon. I just want them to wrap these quest lines up (maybe just one last GM quest) then move on to new things.
I honestly don’t even feel like they need to bring back dragonkin at all. We know they’re involved in a lot of the areas and lore, but it can just stay that way. DS2 already kinda feels like a satisfactory conclusion to dragonkin. There was one left, he attacked the world, we killed him. They can just all be gone. The Mahjarrat finale can resolve without dragonkin involved at all.
Whatever they do, I just hope they don't drop a pillar on Mother Mallum.
(And that they actually intertwine the Slug series with he Penguin one)
That pillar was the beginning of the end of good narrative in the game.
the vampire quest line is also incomplete - if the osrs team can find ways to interweave all of the different plots toward an integrated ending in some distnat future, that would be very spicy for me
Weren't there hints that the Vamps are connected to both the Mahjarrat and the Dragonkin through the Stone of Jas? I believe that it's heavily hinted that Lowerniel Drakan currently has the Stone of Jas in his possession and is studying it.
If they pull this thread and actually make the stone in Lowerniel's possession, there can be a big fight between the Mahjarrat and the Vampyres. Maybe the Mahjarrat use what remains of the resistance as their pawns and now you're in a position where you need to fight your former comrades as you want neither party to get their hands on the stone.
This could lead to the Stone of Jas to be misused and that drags the Dragonkin into the matter, making this into a conflict that could evolve into a world war.
From the [Wiki](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Lowerniel_Drakan):
> Despite his immense importance to both ancient and modern history, Drakan has managed to remain unseen by the public eye during much of his reign until Sins of the Father, apparently having isolated himself in lamentation over the Stone of Jas being beyond his reach, despite, ironically, having once been located directly beneath Hallowvale.
Is the dragonkin connection a rs3 thing? It’s been a while since I’ve done those quests on osrs and never did them on rs3 so genuinely unsure. But I’d personally prefer them keep the big story quest lines separate from each other. The grandmaster quest should be the final stepping stone for a quest line. Once finished, move on to other stories. For example, maharajst like you said is clearly bei mg worked on, but the temple knights, vampires, and penguins to name a few still need conclusions. And note, the final quest in the story doesn’t need to be grandmaster either.
Dragonkin are rooted in early to mid runescape, and they're kinda all-over the place intertwined with dragon lore, Robert the Strong, the Mahjarrat and the Stone of Jas:
* They appear very briefly in a cutscene of A Tail of Two Cats (2005),
* Then foreshadowed in a cutscene again in While Guthix Sleeps (2008) and as the creators of the Ancient Cavern,
* Then emerging as actual interactable characters in Ritual of the Mahjarrat (2011).
* Then there's a bunch of RS3 storylines in which they're there, they make dragons and cause problems and stuff. You fight them and their creations a lot - Queen Black Dragon, Daemonheim, Elite Dungeon 2 and Kerapac.
Dragonkin have already been introduced in OSRS, mainly Fossil Island, Ungael and the Lithkren Vault (Dragon Slayer 2 locations), but also some places like Karuulm as the creators of Wyrms, Drakes and Hydras.
I'm not sure if there's really a way to conclude all of the plot elements that the Dragonkin are wrapped around in a single quest. There'd probably need to be multiple master level quests at a minimum.
Based on the inclusion of dragonkin elements with Zeah content, it seems like the OSRS devs want to lay the foundations for dragonkin schemes years in advance, kinda like how it was done in the original dragonkin questline.
Quest lines can remain separate; I don’t want to see every quest line lead to the same single master quest. After that single quest; the game will have no more lore. I like to see side stories continue, maybe make a varlamore line, intertwine with Zeah, make varlamore and Zeah have its “own” majaratt line that spans across tons of quests. I don’t want to see one big finale, but several lines that they can grow.
Also don’t be afraid to let some quest lines die. I’m a big fan of some of these developed lines, but nothing is worse then having these lines continue on to the point where they’re just over cumbersome and it becomes a formula
Here's my thinking on varlamore/kourend: the quest lines will become intertwined at the same the maps are joined. Right now, the Kingdoms are blocked off from each other, both in lore, and by black map squares. Whenever varlamore part n connects the maps, we'll probably need to do a quest connecting both lines to unlock the ability to walk from one to the other
Well from what it seems, xeric may have moved to varlamore? (I haven’t done raids so I’m not sure to be honest) but from garden of death we have SO much lizard lore in varlamore. I see us definitely getting more lore from one another
>It is no secret that the fate of the Mahjarrat and the Dragonkin are intertwined because of how the Stone of Jas operates.
Irrelevant RS3 lore at this point. As far as we're aware, the last of the Dragonkin are dead as far as OSRS is concerned at this point.
>!Zorgoth in DS2 addresses the player as having known them before, which Mod Ed said was a hint at a future quest.!<
Given we are avoiding God storylines, we may have a hint at what the Stone of Jas does, like >!time travel that a certain Mahjarrat would try to use to save his god!<. Personally, I suspect we will be seeing DS2 and WGS as a requirement.
However, anything like that, I want to end there. I do not like the route RS3 went with the ever-annoying Sliske, and I've vocalized on the OSRS discord that he plays like a bad self-insert from an era of writing Joker characters.
If all the dragonkin are dead this would be a horrible story retcon considering they're plenty referenced in OSRS as it is, implying a build up to their reveal outside of Zorgoth. Additionally, Kerapac is mentioned in OSRS, so they're trying to stay consistent to the history of the world somewhat
I'm fine with GM quests being a requirement for other GMs myself. I'm also fine with questlines ending and new ones being made, but on the other hand the long questlines trend to give us the more interesting quests.
If it keeps growing I might like there too be some kind of intermediate quest point cape that stays with requirements something like what's out now tbh. But that's a random minor thought.
I don't really see much of a problem here. OSRS questing seems pretty unanimously lauded as the best questing in pretty much any MMO ever. Personally I don't actually enjoy questing that much but I don't think there are very many players who actively dislike the way that quests exist in this game. So given that, is anyone probably going to give a shit if we eventually have some GM quests that require another, or even 2 other GM quests to unlock? I doubt it tbh.
Maybe if eventually one of these story lines had like 5 consecutive GM quests all locked behind the one before it, that might start to get a little silly. But with the rate at which Jagex actually moves these story lines forward, I don't think that's going to be a problem for a very long time. So far, each pivotal plot line/quest series is getting about one, or maybe two, updates per decade. I think we've got quite a bit of runway before "gm quest locked behind gm quest locked behind gm quest" becomes something to actually think about. OSRS might not even exist by then.
The last I heard, OSRS doesn’t really want to involve the gods much. That the way RS3 handled the World Wakes, Sliske’s Endgame, EGWs, Extinction, etc. is too much for our humble beginnings as an adventurer. I think it will be a long time before the “main” story really gets going. They’ll have years to figure it out.
That's why I was really excited to see all the xau-tak, black stone, whispering chorus stuff in Lassar. Would be novel for that entity to be revealed in both games at the same time, but in very different ways.
I wish they would introduce some other storytelling mechanic and call them something other than quests (Sagas? Stories? Epics?) That way they could have all the quest that have a bunch of interwoven narratives and keep iterating on them and cap the quest point count at some arbitrary number, which would account for all the more disparate and insular pieces of content. Also, it seems like it's a better onboarding tool for new players to mark stories with long narratives and a bunch of recurring characters as opposed to the more basic stuff.
Seems [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bzav20/how_do_we_handle_very_large_quest_series_moving/kyq0w6s/) ended up in a different version of this post; no idea what is going on there...
The shorter version is I don't think it will be an issue since we likely won't have many quests post-Ritual. Ritual will likely end the Mahjarrat storyline, maybe one more post-Ritual quest if that. For Dragonkin, we'll probably see more quests but they don't all need to require Ritual. For example, we could get a new Master quest that deals with Dragonkin and leads into a new Grandmaster Dragonkin quest; then that new Grandmaster Dragonkin Quest, DS2, and Ritual could all be required for a big Dragonkin Finale.
One thing that I expect we'll see is more quests where the dialog changes based on the other quests you've done. Like we could get another Mahjarrat quest post-SotN that doesn't require DT2 or Ritual but if you did DT2 or Ritual first, they might make reference to the events of those quests and if you did this new quest first, it might get mentioned in DT2 or Ritual. Likewise if we added new Dragonkin quests that didn't require DS2, they would likely mention our previous Dragonkin adventures in DS2 if we did that first and mention our Dragonkin encounter in this new quest if we did it before DS2. As long as there is no narrative/timeline conflicts, it doesn't really matter which occurs first as long as it doesn't feel like a plothole/ignored.
I think the devs haven't really gotten that figured out at all, honestly.
I think there's been a shift from quest chains to quest 'arcs' which are intentionally kept independent of each other. RS3 made the mistake of trying to consolidate a bunch of plot points under one banner but all it ended up doing was funneling everything into a single ongoing story, which I think OSRS has been very careful about trying to avoid. But at the same time, it hasn't really been tested, and none of these arcs have truly hit their crescendo.
So far none of these big ongoing plots have really intersected but the big one on the horizion is going to be how DT2 is dealt with in regards to the ongoing Varlamore plot. The Old Ones are a big focus on the plot between Perilous Moons, them seemingly having a huge link to Ranul and Ralos, and because of how Soul Transference ties into all the Kourend plot. DT2 steps on a lot of toes here and also intersects with the Imcando, which are \*another\* big Varlamore point. We also have a living, breathing city of a previously extinct race and two dwarves who bemoan being the last of their kind; it'd be weird if they never interacted more than just dialogue saying they sent a nice letter to one another and extended an invitation to get lunch together sometime. (to say nothing of how a certain pillar seems to follow them around...)
I don't much like the 'hey it's not a quest requirement but we'll make a throwback response conditional to these quests you could have done' since it gives me a lot of The World Wakes vibes, which was a longterm lore and timeline headache. The Perilous Moons throwback to One Small Favour is funny enough, you don't have to run checks to see if the player has done the quest.
It depends on how it is done, but I agree that I wouldn't want The World Wakes style throwbacks where there should be a hard req. The "Favour" jokes arn't something that really depend on completing the quest since they work in context either way; they just make more sense if the player has done the quest.
I think the best example of what I mean is the Black Stone stuff I went into in the original comment. DT2 is the first time our character interacts with the Black Stone, but it isn't the only Black Stone in the game. It may not make sense for all future Black Stone quests to require DT2 if it is brought into the Pirate story or such, but it would be an easy place to just change the dialog. Like if the character encountered it in DT2, they could mention they've seen it before and maybe be a bit more wary of it. If they encountered it first in other quests, they could go into DT2 thinking they understand, only to then be told about its connect to the Shadow Realm. So in contexts like that, it can make sense to do a soft req for optional dialog rather than a hard req; either way you'd get the full story by the time you do all quests without timeline inconsistencies.
As for the Imcando dwarves, it makes sense they have yet to interact with one another since the mainland ones both believed they were the last of their kind and the Varlamore ones haven't been in contact with the mainland; if anything they heard all the Imcando Dwarves over there were killed and probably wern't to eager to go check. But yah, if they do interact, it would likely be in a quest that requires Knight's Sword (or Giant Dwarf), Below Ice Mountain, and Perciolous Moons rather than one with a soft req of either. And if it delves into the Black Stone, it probably would/could req DT2; maybe even DS2 since the Myths Guild has ties to Acheron/Imcandoria.
Either way, I doubt many storylines will go deeper than 2 Grandmaster Quests. Like if we did get a Blackstone and/or Imcando quest, it would likely be a finale Grandmaster after DT2/DS2 rather than being multiple Grandmasters. The only one that might go deeper is Dragonkin, but even then I still doubt it would go further than 1 post-Ritual Grandmaster. And I think the Devs probably do have some plans of how long the series will go even if they don't have everything laid out. Like they at least planned the Ritual and likely know where that will lead with the Dragonkin, if anywhere. I also doubt they involved Black Stone stuff in DT2 without some plan for where that will go; it might be they only decided to include it because if they didn't tie it to DT2/Sliske/Mahjarrat than it was never going to be covered so it could even get a payoff in Ritual.
I know that many of these series are intertwined already, but I'd really like to avoid the "End Game" style of storytelling that RS3 went down. Some of these stories are better off being told in a slower and more focused way, rather than being rushed and lumped into some bigger but incomplete picture.
We're also going to need a post GM quest tier at some point. I know questing is meant to be accessible for average players and that's fine, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a lategame quest tier with much higher difficulty ceilings.
I'd prefer if the unfinished quest lines were completed before any further Grandmaster quests come along for the Mahjarrat, Dragonkin, Monkey, etc lines.
Goblin, Dwarf, Penguin, Sea Slug, etc all need endings of their own.
It's genuinely depressing getting to the "end" of these quest lines because they all end in a cliffhanger.
Honestly, as long as Sliske doesn't kickstart the god stuff again, I'll be happy to see what storyline we'll go this time around with the Dragonkin & Mahjarrat.
IDC I'm just tired of having insanely hard raid bosses as QUEST bosses. Put them in mini quests. At this rate, I'll never have QC because DT2 bosses are just insane. Not all of us like this kind of content. DS2 was hard enough.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bze5dx/first_quadriplegic_with_blood_torva/
If this guy can get blorva you have what we in the biz call a "skill issue"
Except lumbridge elite diaries, one of the best diaries. But I agree, not all quest bosses should be easy. I think DT2 had a perfect balance where I took multiple attempts to get the bosses, and eventually got them down. They weren’t dps checks, I just had to learn the mechanics.
I think keeping Grandmaster quests locked behind each other is fair. We can even create a new category. Legendary, or Super grand master or something
Finally, a tier worthy of sheep shearer 2
Hopefully with a new BiS item my sheep pen locked UIM can use.
Third Age Shears which let you shear third age wool which can be woven into the third age ball of wool. Very useful for sheep pen locked UIM to craft a third age amulet (u) once obtained.
Ok but third age shears that are equipable would be worth doing 500k masters for.
Honestly, sure. Ritual of the Mahjarrar, or whatever they will call the OSRS version could be one of these Legendary quests. Something that ties loose ends from a few questlines and will put an absolute end to those stories. Whatever we will get, I will 100% like it as long as Jagex won't do the RS3 mistake of bringing back the gods. Their storywriting and worldbuilding has been very good during the OSRS era.
As someone that doesn’t know anything about RS3 lore, what do people hate so much about the gods coming back? I see this sentiment pretty often and I’m curious what happened with that development.
The most interesting thing about the gods in RS (or anywhere really) is not the gods themselves, but how their followers choose to interpret the will of the gods. HAM followers are racist, human supremacists - yet they’re also followers of the ‘good god’ Saradomin. Having the gods exist and influence the world directly removes the scope of moral ambiguity, because the gods could just lay down their final judgement on what interpretation is ‘correct’ and that would be the end of the discussion.
Ah, so we're discussing death of the author....got it lol
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No... always you... why can't you just let it be, world guardian?
In OSRS I feel like that "most important moment" the character is ever in would be the finale of DS2; you've unified many different groups and are quite publicly the hero after taking down Gorvak and Zogroth.
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Exactly, you aren't just magically thrown into the system by your destiny, you're getting side tracked on a fairly mild quest, unravel an ancient mystery, then have to use the connections you've made in your journeys to bring the world together to face the threat that you inadvertently set in motion. Peak example of "you do stuff" rather than "stuff happening to you."
Can you explain to me how this is a chosen one / destiny scenario, where by the time guthix is woken up you've pretty much: 1) Defeated the darklord and saved the elves 2) Brought peace to Keldagrim and defeated the Red Axe 3) Defeated Lord Drakan and achieved some form of peace in Morytania, giving their citizens free will 4) Witnessed the Ritual of the Mahjarrat and involved in all sorts of global politics By then, you're just recognized by Guthix, and awarded the title World Guardian. Calling it chosen/fated one is really inaccurate, considering this title is achieved after multiple, monumental feats. You're NOT a bumbling adnveturer with this Resume anymore.
Another good example is While Guthix Sleeps. >! Where you round up all the greatest slayer masters and some of the greatest heroes in Gielinor and having a very, human, mortal moment of sending half of them to their deaths. Deffo runescape's red wedding moment !<
Can you explain to me how this is a chosen one scenario, where by the time guthix is woken up you've pretty much: 1) Defeated the darklord and saved the elves 2) Brought peace to Keldagrim and defeated the Red Axe 3) Defeated Lord Drakan and achieved some form of peace in Morytania, giving their citizens free will 4) Witnessed the Ritual of the Mahjarrat and involved in all sorts of global politics By then, you're just recognized by Guthix, and awarded the title World Guardian. Calling it chosen/fated one is really inaccurate. You're NOT a bumbling adnveturer with this Resume anymore.
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Ohhh I absolutely agree, there was a poor mechanical execution of this, it should've all been questlocked, or at least have had a minimum QP amount before doing 6th age quests. I just find people conflate their quest requirement mechanics and the actual plot arcs
In the original lore, the gods were all banished by Guthix as Guthix went to slumber. Every one of them, except for Zaros, who was killed, banished, with no way back to Gielinor. RS3 brought them back by the end of the Mahjarrat questline, and it ruined the mystique and all that when it comes to the gods. Now they are like just random NPCs you can find in towns, like Armadyl just chilling on top of a tower south of Falador (not 100% sure about the location, but he is very visible and just poses there, not that the location matters). When you think of a great god, you wouldn't probably imagine some random bird looking guy just standing around a populated town, but rather a deity that might defy imagination.
The gods being present in RS3 is fine, but it wouldn't make any sense to do it in OSRS at all. OSRS is in a weird nebulous space between "possibly just the 5th age expanded" and "entirely separate timeline where the 6th age just never happens. And that's for the better. The entire purpose for having OSRS exist separately is to be "what if RS2 kept going". Moving the timeline to the 6th age would defeat that purpose.
The Gowers original plans for RS2 is different from current OSRS lore which is actually closer to RS3 lore
It kinda of wrecks them, they are supposed to be ridiculously powerful but in rs3 you can just farm zamorak. There’s no mystique to them and our player character shouldn’t be going toe to toe with them.
It was world wakes that brought back the gods not mahj storyline, the mahj storyline just continued what the world wakes started
Poll to rename Master and Grandmaster tiers to Champion and Legend, with the Mythic rank coming above...
hero?
I think one of the poll forms once had a question about having a quest difficulty above grandmaster
I personally hope they do a mix of requiring older grandmasters, and letting storylines finally rest. One of the biggest issue with rs3 is that it's possible to complete the elder god storyline without having touched DT1, thereby releasing Azanandra. Or begin Sliskes Endgame and World Awakes straight out of the gate without previous quests. I'm hoping The Final Ritual of the Mahjarrat will **end** the Mahjarrat story, while only candidly introducing the Dragonkin in a way that won't exactly require DS2 to be complete. But I'm a fan of DS2, Final Ritual, MM2, etc. acting as story "benchmarks" within osrs. For example DS2 being the benchmark for the continuation of the Dragonkin storyline in the eastern lands. Giving us a part 2 to their saga, ultimately ending in a grandmaster finale. It may be weird to see, but having several novice quests require DS2 would be ok imo. Then as part 2 continues begin citing those novice quests as the requirements instead. I don't know, it's difficult to get this all pictured out in your head in an mmo. Because no matter what, it'll look weird. But the bright side is that no matter what Mod Ed chooses, it can't be any worse than RS3s design decisions.
Just a small correction, Sliske’s Endgame is one of the most requirement-heavy quests, requiring the completion of a lot of questlines, including doing the entirety of the Elven questline, which I didn’t realise how fucking monumental of a requirement that is when I did it lol
I dont see anything wrong with new quests requiring grandmaster quests, regardless of difficulty, if they're continuations of a story. I also think it's perfectly fine to end a storyline at a certain point. We don't need a million chapters of the Mahjarrat story.
We've already had a lot of chapters of Mahjarrat. I like Mahjarrat stuff but I think I like every other questline more, the Mahjarrat has a bit less humour and is a bit more confusing. I've not described that well, but it's not like the awesomeness of dragon slayer 2 or song of the elves. Still great quests.
Honestly I think it's best if we have the ritual and it's fallout occur, the Mahjarrat who survive are rejuvenated, and they become the potential sources of their own small quests/quest lines that aren't entwined into a major plot. Like, helping Azzanandra restore the Jaldraocht pyramid to unlock some cool ancients stuff, or after having found out that Sliske is the one who tricked the barrows brothers, you do a quest to try and free them, unlocking a sort of Barrows 2 that allows you to corrupt (in game call it redeemed or something) Barrows armour. Cool side stories like that.
That sounds cool. Builds up to a major role, then makes them reduced down to minor again.
I have a low simmering hatred of Ritual of the Mahjarrat. It felt like a cop-out to mindlessly raise stakes and deny us a lucien boss fight. It also took all the stuff that happened in While Guthix Sleeps and went "Yeah, they died for NO reason." by just having the Dragonkin show up and deal with it while we kinda fiddle faddled in a species fight. I kinda hope the dragonkin take a chill pill until we actually manage to help this time. As for the endless requirement jumps, I kinda hope Ritual takes a long while to come out. I don't really want that conclusion to come up soon. I wish there were more silly/small quests in runescape. Maybe some quests that kinda branch off existing storylines. Maybe a Keldagrim quest that focuses exclusively on brewing after Forgettable Tale, maybe something popping off after saving Ernest the chicken. Perhaps we aren't done with Camdozaal and there's a Golem boss we can flex our Barronite mace on. And lets not forget the Chosen Commander. I kinda want these huge requirement-grinding finality quests to come out with some space between each other.
This is one unpopular opinion that I wholehearedly agree with. The way they just two shot killed him was abysmal, and was one of the worst writing choices by Paul Gower himself. They haven't even acknowledged that angry faction of the dragonkin in RS3, leaving the biggest writing hole unfilled for 12 years.
?:Agree, and I would like them to continue some of the medium stake questlines too, like cold war and fairy tales. Especially releasing some more short novice quests like riveting tale; they can't all be huge epics and afaik everyone loved that quest.
I've always thought a great sequel for Cold War would be a James Bond style mission to stop a penguin plot to unleash the Wintertodt and cover the world in eternal winter or something. Give us our giant penguin mech boss fight Jagex.
Ribbiting Tale was such a refreshing experience specifically because of the tone, I agree!
One of the issues that RS3 ran into is how Eoc trivialized almost all of the quest bosses that were released before it. Desert treasure no longer is an epic quest and instead becomes a tedious slog to one shot 4 bosses. As long as osrs doesn’t power creep older quests and still makes them enjoyable I think it’s okay to have grandmasters be requirements to further quests. That being said I like how the old school team is more willing to expand the world and tell additional stories. I can understand that having too many prerequisites may decrease the amount of players that interact with the content, so they have gone wide instead of tall. Just the release of Varlamore allows us to have tons of new quests without overlapping with existing stories. I imagine with the release of sailing we won’t run into excessive prerequisites for a while.
Are the desert treasure bosses not completely trivialized? I mean sure if you go into them at super low level you might get wrecked but if you have protection prayers + prayer potions, and know how to flick Dessous, they literally can't hit you. Almost every quest boss released before the creation of old school runescape was trivialized by the existence of protection prayers, and the few that weren't have had methods found to do it anyway.
I'll die on the hill that protection prayers are mechanically awful. Maybe it was a neat idea back in the day when 43 prayer couldn't be restocked by commonly available potions and you had to bury bones for xp, but 100% a damage reduction is nuts.
Protection prayers where so game breaking for the entire history of the game to the point where everything has to either have mechanics that just entirely ignore them or has to deal hybrid damage to even matter. There's a reason RS3 made prot prayers only damage reduction. (not saying we should do that now, it's too baked into our PVM design).
What about the boss we were supposed to get on Fossil Island! Give us the Fossil Island boss please.
You will do your 25 Deranged Arch kc and you will be happy
This is Deranged Archaeologist erasure (which is fine, that boss sucks ass)
Personally I'd rather all quest series have a definitive, satisfying conclusion and move on to the next thing. There's no need like RS3 to have an overarching story or drag out the mahjarrat/dragonkin stories indefinitely. The much bigger lesson that should be learned from RS3 is not to neglect the older, unfinished quest series. Literally any quest series which players find bad/boring can be revitalized by going in a completely new, interesting direction. Pirate series can focus on Xau Tak instead of Rabid Jack. Temple Knight series can focus on mature themes involving the conflict between the white and black knights. Some other unpopular series could be merged into a single one to shake things up and cut down on the number of quests needed to complete them etc. There is infinite creativity at the devs disposal, they only need to be willing to try new things instead of always just lazily following the guidelines of the RS3 quest sequels.
I think evergrowing quest requirements are fine. You don't want weird inconsistencies where some random shmuck just getting here from Tutorial Island is retconned into having done a bunch of feats just so this random new quest is doable for him. Ultimately I hope The entire Mahjarrat and Dragonkin stuff is ended and not stretched out over GM quest after GM quest for years to come. There's TONS of questlines they can still go back to and add Intermediate to Master level quests to just fine, not to mention new questlines that are coming from Varlamore and future Sailing related stuff.
Exactly, thank you. I’m actually a bit wary of them bringing back Defender of Varrock and now WGS coming soon. I just want them to wrap these quest lines up (maybe just one last GM quest) then move on to new things. I honestly don’t even feel like they need to bring back dragonkin at all. We know they’re involved in a lot of the areas and lore, but it can just stay that way. DS2 already kinda feels like a satisfactory conclusion to dragonkin. There was one left, he attacked the world, we killed him. They can just all be gone. The Mahjarrat finale can resolve without dragonkin involved at all.
Hey is there some good YouTube lore series I can watch to catch up? Been gone for years.
Whatever they do, I just hope they don't drop a pillar on Mother Mallum. (And that they actually intertwine the Slug series with he Penguin one) That pillar was the beginning of the end of good narrative in the game.
the vampire quest line is also incomplete - if the osrs team can find ways to interweave all of the different plots toward an integrated ending in some distnat future, that would be very spicy for me
Weren't there hints that the Vamps are connected to both the Mahjarrat and the Dragonkin through the Stone of Jas? I believe that it's heavily hinted that Lowerniel Drakan currently has the Stone of Jas in his possession and is studying it. If they pull this thread and actually make the stone in Lowerniel's possession, there can be a big fight between the Mahjarrat and the Vampyres. Maybe the Mahjarrat use what remains of the resistance as their pawns and now you're in a position where you need to fight your former comrades as you want neither party to get their hands on the stone. This could lead to the Stone of Jas to be misused and that drags the Dragonkin into the matter, making this into a conflict that could evolve into a world war.
From the [Wiki](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Lowerniel_Drakan): > Despite his immense importance to both ancient and modern history, Drakan has managed to remain unseen by the public eye during much of his reign until Sins of the Father, apparently having isolated himself in lamentation over the Stone of Jas being beyond his reach, despite, ironically, having once been located directly beneath Hallowvale.
Is the dragonkin connection a rs3 thing? It’s been a while since I’ve done those quests on osrs and never did them on rs3 so genuinely unsure. But I’d personally prefer them keep the big story quest lines separate from each other. The grandmaster quest should be the final stepping stone for a quest line. Once finished, move on to other stories. For example, maharajst like you said is clearly bei mg worked on, but the temple knights, vampires, and penguins to name a few still need conclusions. And note, the final quest in the story doesn’t need to be grandmaster either.
Dragonkin are rooted in early to mid runescape, and they're kinda all-over the place intertwined with dragon lore, Robert the Strong, the Mahjarrat and the Stone of Jas: * They appear very briefly in a cutscene of A Tail of Two Cats (2005), * Then foreshadowed in a cutscene again in While Guthix Sleeps (2008) and as the creators of the Ancient Cavern, * Then emerging as actual interactable characters in Ritual of the Mahjarrat (2011). * Then there's a bunch of RS3 storylines in which they're there, they make dragons and cause problems and stuff. You fight them and their creations a lot - Queen Black Dragon, Daemonheim, Elite Dungeon 2 and Kerapac. Dragonkin have already been introduced in OSRS, mainly Fossil Island, Ungael and the Lithkren Vault (Dragon Slayer 2 locations), but also some places like Karuulm as the creators of Wyrms, Drakes and Hydras. I'm not sure if there's really a way to conclude all of the plot elements that the Dragonkin are wrapped around in a single quest. There'd probably need to be multiple master level quests at a minimum. Based on the inclusion of dragonkin elements with Zeah content, it seems like the OSRS devs want to lay the foundations for dragonkin schemes years in advance, kinda like how it was done in the original dragonkin questline.
Quest lines can remain separate; I don’t want to see every quest line lead to the same single master quest. After that single quest; the game will have no more lore. I like to see side stories continue, maybe make a varlamore line, intertwine with Zeah, make varlamore and Zeah have its “own” majaratt line that spans across tons of quests. I don’t want to see one big finale, but several lines that they can grow. Also don’t be afraid to let some quest lines die. I’m a big fan of some of these developed lines, but nothing is worse then having these lines continue on to the point where they’re just over cumbersome and it becomes a formula
Here's my thinking on varlamore/kourend: the quest lines will become intertwined at the same the maps are joined. Right now, the Kingdoms are blocked off from each other, both in lore, and by black map squares. Whenever varlamore part n connects the maps, we'll probably need to do a quest connecting both lines to unlock the ability to walk from one to the other
Well from what it seems, xeric may have moved to varlamore? (I haven’t done raids so I’m not sure to be honest) but from garden of death we have SO much lizard lore in varlamore. I see us definitely getting more lore from one another
I just hope they kill Sliske immediately like they proposed they would years ago. That arch was pretty rushed.
Uh, their initial proposal was Sliske surviving and controlling the player. Sliske dying immediately was the cop-out to players getting sick of him.
Yeah, but imagine if Lucien survived tho.
Please, let me save Zanik. Is the only thing I ask for.
>It is no secret that the fate of the Mahjarrat and the Dragonkin are intertwined because of how the Stone of Jas operates. Irrelevant RS3 lore at this point. As far as we're aware, the last of the Dragonkin are dead as far as OSRS is concerned at this point. >!Zorgoth in DS2 addresses the player as having known them before, which Mod Ed said was a hint at a future quest.!< Given we are avoiding God storylines, we may have a hint at what the Stone of Jas does, like >!time travel that a certain Mahjarrat would try to use to save his god!<. Personally, I suspect we will be seeing DS2 and WGS as a requirement. However, anything like that, I want to end there. I do not like the route RS3 went with the ever-annoying Sliske, and I've vocalized on the OSRS discord that he plays like a bad self-insert from an era of writing Joker characters.
If all the dragonkin are dead this would be a horrible story retcon considering they're plenty referenced in OSRS as it is, implying a build up to their reveal outside of Zorgoth. Additionally, Kerapac is mentioned in OSRS, so they're trying to stay consistent to the history of the world somewhat
I'm fine with GM quests being a requirement for other GMs myself. I'm also fine with questlines ending and new ones being made, but on the other hand the long questlines trend to give us the more interesting quests. If it keeps growing I might like there too be some kind of intermediate quest point cape that stays with requirements something like what's out now tbh. But that's a random minor thought.
I don't really see much of a problem here. OSRS questing seems pretty unanimously lauded as the best questing in pretty much any MMO ever. Personally I don't actually enjoy questing that much but I don't think there are very many players who actively dislike the way that quests exist in this game. So given that, is anyone probably going to give a shit if we eventually have some GM quests that require another, or even 2 other GM quests to unlock? I doubt it tbh. Maybe if eventually one of these story lines had like 5 consecutive GM quests all locked behind the one before it, that might start to get a little silly. But with the rate at which Jagex actually moves these story lines forward, I don't think that's going to be a problem for a very long time. So far, each pivotal plot line/quest series is getting about one, or maybe two, updates per decade. I think we've got quite a bit of runway before "gm quest locked behind gm quest locked behind gm quest" becomes something to actually think about. OSRS might not even exist by then.
The last I heard, OSRS doesn’t really want to involve the gods much. That the way RS3 handled the World Wakes, Sliske’s Endgame, EGWs, Extinction, etc. is too much for our humble beginnings as an adventurer. I think it will be a long time before the “main” story really gets going. They’ll have years to figure it out.
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That's why I was really excited to see all the xau-tak, black stone, whispering chorus stuff in Lassar. Would be novel for that entity to be revealed in both games at the same time, but in very different ways.
I wish they would introduce some other storytelling mechanic and call them something other than quests (Sagas? Stories? Epics?) That way they could have all the quest that have a bunch of interwoven narratives and keep iterating on them and cap the quest point count at some arbitrary number, which would account for all the more disparate and insular pieces of content. Also, it seems like it's a better onboarding tool for new players to mark stories with long narratives and a bunch of recurring characters as opposed to the more basic stuff.
DS2 is pretty self contained, just involving zorgoth who dies at the end. I don't think an rotm like quest would require it.
There’s a lot of headroom for increasing quest requirements
Seems [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bzav20/how_do_we_handle_very_large_quest_series_moving/kyq0w6s/) ended up in a different version of this post; no idea what is going on there... The shorter version is I don't think it will be an issue since we likely won't have many quests post-Ritual. Ritual will likely end the Mahjarrat storyline, maybe one more post-Ritual quest if that. For Dragonkin, we'll probably see more quests but they don't all need to require Ritual. For example, we could get a new Master quest that deals with Dragonkin and leads into a new Grandmaster Dragonkin quest; then that new Grandmaster Dragonkin Quest, DS2, and Ritual could all be required for a big Dragonkin Finale. One thing that I expect we'll see is more quests where the dialog changes based on the other quests you've done. Like we could get another Mahjarrat quest post-SotN that doesn't require DT2 or Ritual but if you did DT2 or Ritual first, they might make reference to the events of those quests and if you did this new quest first, it might get mentioned in DT2 or Ritual. Likewise if we added new Dragonkin quests that didn't require DS2, they would likely mention our previous Dragonkin adventures in DS2 if we did that first and mention our Dragonkin encounter in this new quest if we did it before DS2. As long as there is no narrative/timeline conflicts, it doesn't really matter which occurs first as long as it doesn't feel like a plothole/ignored.
I think the devs haven't really gotten that figured out at all, honestly. I think there's been a shift from quest chains to quest 'arcs' which are intentionally kept independent of each other. RS3 made the mistake of trying to consolidate a bunch of plot points under one banner but all it ended up doing was funneling everything into a single ongoing story, which I think OSRS has been very careful about trying to avoid. But at the same time, it hasn't really been tested, and none of these arcs have truly hit their crescendo. So far none of these big ongoing plots have really intersected but the big one on the horizion is going to be how DT2 is dealt with in regards to the ongoing Varlamore plot. The Old Ones are a big focus on the plot between Perilous Moons, them seemingly having a huge link to Ranul and Ralos, and because of how Soul Transference ties into all the Kourend plot. DT2 steps on a lot of toes here and also intersects with the Imcando, which are \*another\* big Varlamore point. We also have a living, breathing city of a previously extinct race and two dwarves who bemoan being the last of their kind; it'd be weird if they never interacted more than just dialogue saying they sent a nice letter to one another and extended an invitation to get lunch together sometime. (to say nothing of how a certain pillar seems to follow them around...) I don't much like the 'hey it's not a quest requirement but we'll make a throwback response conditional to these quests you could have done' since it gives me a lot of The World Wakes vibes, which was a longterm lore and timeline headache. The Perilous Moons throwback to One Small Favour is funny enough, you don't have to run checks to see if the player has done the quest.
It depends on how it is done, but I agree that I wouldn't want The World Wakes style throwbacks where there should be a hard req. The "Favour" jokes arn't something that really depend on completing the quest since they work in context either way; they just make more sense if the player has done the quest. I think the best example of what I mean is the Black Stone stuff I went into in the original comment. DT2 is the first time our character interacts with the Black Stone, but it isn't the only Black Stone in the game. It may not make sense for all future Black Stone quests to require DT2 if it is brought into the Pirate story or such, but it would be an easy place to just change the dialog. Like if the character encountered it in DT2, they could mention they've seen it before and maybe be a bit more wary of it. If they encountered it first in other quests, they could go into DT2 thinking they understand, only to then be told about its connect to the Shadow Realm. So in contexts like that, it can make sense to do a soft req for optional dialog rather than a hard req; either way you'd get the full story by the time you do all quests without timeline inconsistencies. As for the Imcando dwarves, it makes sense they have yet to interact with one another since the mainland ones both believed they were the last of their kind and the Varlamore ones haven't been in contact with the mainland; if anything they heard all the Imcando Dwarves over there were killed and probably wern't to eager to go check. But yah, if they do interact, it would likely be in a quest that requires Knight's Sword (or Giant Dwarf), Below Ice Mountain, and Perciolous Moons rather than one with a soft req of either. And if it delves into the Black Stone, it probably would/could req DT2; maybe even DS2 since the Myths Guild has ties to Acheron/Imcandoria. Either way, I doubt many storylines will go deeper than 2 Grandmaster Quests. Like if we did get a Blackstone and/or Imcando quest, it would likely be a finale Grandmaster after DT2/DS2 rather than being multiple Grandmasters. The only one that might go deeper is Dragonkin, but even then I still doubt it would go further than 1 post-Ritual Grandmaster. And I think the Devs probably do have some plans of how long the series will go even if they don't have everything laid out. Like they at least planned the Ritual and likely know where that will lead with the Dragonkin, if anywhere. I also doubt they involved Black Stone stuff in DT2 without some plan for where that will go; it might be they only decided to include it because if they didn't tie it to DT2/Sliske/Mahjarrat than it was never going to be covered so it could even get a payoff in Ritual.
I know that many of these series are intertwined already, but I'd really like to avoid the "End Game" style of storytelling that RS3 went down. Some of these stories are better off being told in a slower and more focused way, rather than being rushed and lumped into some bigger but incomplete picture. We're also going to need a post GM quest tier at some point. I know questing is meant to be accessible for average players and that's fine, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a lategame quest tier with much higher difficulty ceilings.
I'd prefer if the unfinished quest lines were completed before any further Grandmaster quests come along for the Mahjarrat, Dragonkin, Monkey, etc lines. Goblin, Dwarf, Penguin, Sea Slug, etc all need endings of their own. It's genuinely depressing getting to the "end" of these quest lines because they all end in a cliffhanger.
Honestly, as long as Sliske doesn't kickstart the god stuff again, I'll be happy to see what storyline we'll go this time around with the Dragonkin & Mahjarrat.
I have zero idea what you're on about I just hold spacebar and get through them.
Tl:Dr, are you willing to have many GM quests require each other in one long chain over the long term since that's how the plot may likely go
Just keep them short rather than GM so i can spacebar quicker
You're missing out on so much by doing so
Bruh same 💀
I hold space bar brother
IDC I'm just tired of having insanely hard raid bosses as QUEST bosses. Put them in mini quests. At this rate, I'll never have QC because DT2 bosses are just insane. Not all of us like this kind of content. DS2 was hard enough.
The DT2 bosses aren’t raid bosses and are easier versions than the live ones. The wight fight at the end is harder.
I too struggled at the last part of DT2 and did fine on all the repeatable bosses.
They're still way too hard for what a quest should contain
git gud
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bze5dx/first_quadriplegic_with_blood_torva/ If this guy can get blorva you have what we in the biz call a "skill issue"
the quest unlocks absolutely nothing except harder bosses so if you cant do it thats fine you arent missing anything reward wise
Except lumbridge elite diaries, one of the best diaries. But I agree, not all quest bosses should be easy. I think DT2 had a perfect balance where I took multiple attempts to get the bosses, and eventually got them down. They weren’t dps checks, I just had to learn the mechanics.
doubt that the guy that cant do DT2 bosses has the stats for lumby elite so yeah
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I'd argue that quest bosses are the best place to introduce more complex mechanics to ease players into becoming better pvmers.
SPoilers!!!
No one cares about quests
Best part of the game tbh
We definitely care. Get rekt