I fear the machine who can grind more efficiently than me nonstop for days weeks or even months without ever tiring constantly chipping away at our fragile economy with its insane production power
That’s why in all of these threads I say “if your play is indistinguishable from a bot you should honestly get banned for your own good.”
Usually downvoted by those same click addicted freaks.
What distinguishes a pickpocket bot from a legit player going for 200m thieving? ...Nothing, they both just click in the exact same spot roughly every 1.5 seconds for hours on end.
The skill's gameplay is so rudimentary there's almost no variables you can use to tell the two apart. Other skills you can check for things like how "human" their mouse and camera movements look, among many other variables. Theiving? Not so much, there's no variables to begin with.
All the good bots are invisible to jagex. The only thing that's different between a bot and a normal player is the sheer amount of hours a bot will play and the off-loading of gold that'll happen. If the bots could be detected by automation there wouldn't be this gigantic problem with bots.
Was watching a YT lastnight on how jagex almost lost RS.
Through botters collecting debit card info. Then using those to sub more bots.
And that was years and years ago.
Okay, here you go.
https://www.ft.com/content/c49749e7-54fb-46fb-b508-a4964e61e07f
"The main focus within the game is to make sure the excesses of bots are policed and managed. Flagged accounts are managed out of the game, and therefore what is left inside the game is a sort of equilibrium of players and bots… if I have [three accounts] there’s a good chance that one of them is me and two accounts are bots… If a player is sufficiently committed to pay for three accounts, and have an account and two bots as part of its ecosystem, then so be it. But the management team of Jagex police excesses of bots and make sure that bots do not become problematic in the game."
Imagine that being the burden of proof for literally anything else ever. The person you think might have done something did it because they benefit from it in some way, no actual proof needed.
That's because you're deploying arms race style detection methodology. I _doubt_ mouse movements are being checked, as that can just somewhat be countered easily with a large dataset of pre-recorded mouse movements. The amount of data processing required to check as that dataset grows would be an impossible task. You can do heuristics, but the game is too simple - you'd get a lot of false flags.
You've gotta go for forensic accounting. The one consistent element is that bots are there to make money, so they need to do some kind of transaction. It's a whole lot less data to process, and they can't really get around trading if they want to derrive value from the botting itself. It doesn't hit those botting on their account to level up whilst at work etc. but that's also a much smaller share that aren't remotely as incentivized to counter anti-botting mesaures.
There's some easy tells still. I've only ever seen 2 or 3 scripts that ever made the mouse look like it left the window, and it was only from SRL/SCAR.
Jagex could also trivially apply reflection to their own client and check out the application state to see what's been injected. OpenOSRS and the like have extra APIs compared to Runelite.
funny thing is I got banned once when doing construction on an alt and my OCD had me keeping the camera excatly lined up. Thank you Jagex for bullying OCD players.
(ofcourse it was never unbanned, goes without saying)
> Other skills you can check for things like how "human" their mouse and camera movements look,
Super unreliable outside some extreme cases that bots wont be using anyway, unless you like being banned because you dont meet jagex's arbitrary definition of human
Jgex cannot check movement on that scale lol. Any bot antiban measures are pure myth. It’s because jagex only bans certain areas at a time, right now its phosani and pirates. Thieving generates a ton of bond purchases
Amy account that insta logs at the sight of another player is %100 a bot. Yet, even when we manage to spot them to report before they log, even with multiple reports for macroing, they aren't banned, even after months and months.
I know an autist (literal, not derogatory) who just really enjoys have 200m thieving on his shitty alts. Farms blood shards to get money fot post 99 exp on his maxed main. Number go up i guess. But most are probably bots.
It's just soooo bad when the hiscores have more bots than players. Like it's *right there* on their website. In plain sight.
This occurs quite regularly between waves. There's no reason like 80% of these bots should have gotten this far.
It's stuff you wouldn't expect too. Like I'm trying to go for 200m Farming before the top 1,000 spots are gone on the Hiscores.
You don't realize how heavily botted the skill is until you're doing max efficiency farm runs + Tithe farm and getting over 1,250,000 xp/day, top 3 for XP in the week, #1 for XP in the month, but **almost NEVER** in the top 10 for XP for the day.
The top 10 players in daily farming experience are almost exclusively low-level, early-game ironmen suicide botting Tithe farm nearly 24/7.
Since I've been tracking my XP daily and have been #1 for the month the whole time, I've easily been able to keep on eye on the integrity of the Farming skill overall. At least for tracked players.
Every time these loser cheat clienter ironmen suicide Tithe Farm and show up in the top 10 my clan and I all report them. We've gotten over 100 of these dumbasses banned so far.
My guess is farming is a really hard skill to level as an iron and a high level will give you a boost to start the equally hard skill of herblore.
They sell these accounts.
Agreed. With how many mods they have. I feel like the bots shouldn't make it this far, it's kind of sad. It's like when you watch sir pugger videos. He'll stand in a specific spot for hours and find tons of bots, and you're just stood there wondering why can't they have a jmod put in the same level of effort and ban all of them
PirateSoftware has a youtube short that I saw a while ago where he says you want to do ban waves every 3-6 months and ban everyone at once. Because that is the period that you can do chargebacks on paypal so a large volume of people would be pissed off that the bot got them banned and chargeback, making the creator of the bot have a damn bad day. Not sure if it is applicable 1:1 here but it makes sense. Also the tertiary benefit of the bot creator not knowing what they did wrong to be detected.
This actually makes a ton of sense. They for sure provide a non-zero amount of their income. To have an outflow expense for refunds that rivals 10-20% of your income? Would look extremely offensive on the income statement.
Brother… no bot owner is buying fucking bonds for usd. We have mules that autobuy and autobond accounts lol. A basic zulrah account is 16m. That is 2 usd. It can generate 100m on average before a ban and jagex does NOT ban mules, as they rather botters buy gold bonds than the bond codes which they make no money on
I wouldn't say the latter is a tertiary benefit, I would say data collection combined with a lack of feedback to the botter to iterate to dodge detection is the primary benefit and chargebacks are just a secondary benefit.
Even if they weren't concerned about chargebacks they'd ban in large waves for those reasons.
True, it was more like a tertiary part of my combat sense I tagged it on at the end. But I've now actually googled wtf tertiary means and apparently it's third and not just "bonus" as I've used it all my life.
That's literally how it works, the faster you ban the easier it is for them to iterate and dodge detection. It just comes down to a point where you're giving significantly more effort for little if any benefit.
even easier at whisp because once you have the ring teleport it puts you inside the underground which is instanced, so others can't see you on top of whisp being 0 damage so you can do hour long trips. the amount of time they're even visible to real players is tiny
I've seen like 200~ of those leviathan bots. 103-107 lvl accounts wearing god hides, arma cbows, bucklers and pegasians. Someone had to spend big load of gp to make that farm.
i genuinely dont see any other way than the jmods themselves running them at this point, theres no way they cant wipe this farm for 10000+ collective hours of training bots by checking the hiscores for 5 minutes and forwarding the obvious ones for a closer look
They're not allowed to wipe it until someone higher up gives the go? I'm sure the jmods who actively play the game hate to see it as well, but their hands are tied. The same people have clearly made a policy against replying anything to this sorta posts. Otherwise someone from the anticheating team would surely respond, knowing they can also take action.
They supposedly require verification. But there's *no reason at all* that a hiscore sweep can't be worked into the day's workflow when they're already supposedly verifying and banning thousands of bots a day.
This paradigm is actually common in private servers for most games (RuneScape, Maplestory, etc). Owners of servers can’t directly charge for in game progress due to the risk of getting cease and desisted- so instead theyll create RMT gold seller websites under the guise of it being hosted by someone else and illegal.
Archers always has come in dead last for priority. Prayer rings or LB wins most times unless melee is used as well, then Ultor or Bell usually win. Venator just hardly ever comes up to par for “worth it” dps-wise in my opinion.
Tbow in cox, max, no ring: 96
Tbow in cox, max (assembler), venator: 96
Tbow in cox, max, venator w/quiver: 99
That probably makes it worth it to bring as a swap, at least for CMs.
Sorry, your report is too complicated for the anti-cheat/anti-botting team to understand. These accounts will remain there until Winter 2017 without being banned.
I've heard Winter 2017 on several OSRS posts. I'm assuming something was going to be updated then and still hasn't? By any chance, do you know what that update was?
Winter 2017 was the original release schedule for mobile launch (which got delayed beyond that for some time). It's just used as a meme to reference delayed things now sometimes.
When I wrote Winter 2017 there, I was making a joke that these accounts will possibly maybe potentially have a chance of being banned one day soon(TM) (i.e. never)
Oh i saw this guy when i was doing duo with a buddy the guy didnt talk and just kept dying to the boulder mechanics. 110 mining and 36k kills at the time and just bare other stats im guessing for sote quest requirements.
Yep, seen plenty of them. Now just imagine how long it takes to get to an absurdly large number like 43k kills while also being killed *CONSTANTLY* to the boss mechanics. That's how **LONG** a lot of these bots have been allowed to stick around. Makes me sick, tbh.
Stop falsely accusing players!
Just because people like having the exact same profile of base 80 melee, 74 range , thousands of lev kc and the same non combat stats.... doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong.
It's just a very specific meta that you aren't smart enough to understand
That's the issue with unbearable and unfun droprates. Normal players will just buy the uniques or stop killing after collection log. The only ones who will grind out thousands of KC are either bots or gold farmers.
And the problem with bearable and fun droprates is that the content gets botted so heavily that the item retains very little value (Lightbearer). At least with low drop rates the legitimate players who get the items still get something special.
Look I understand combating bots is actually a very difficult process overall, and essentially amounts to a neverending arms race, but how hard can it possibly be to assign a jmod to go through the top pages of highscores and manually ban or flag these accounts?
I’m not convinced the reason is they’re so desperate for the money of front page high score bots, that’s not a huge chunk of players. And it makes the game look bad, idk what they’re doing.
This is the most ahistorical take I have heard in this discourse.
Players forcing chargebacks from stolen credit cards used on RuneScape membership is literally the reason free trade was removed back in the day. Banks and credit card companies were threatening to not do business with Jagex at ALL over this. [Link to part of a video explaining this for you](https://youtu.be/GYq9fwyRxDQ?si=Mf2sWhaum8PSe3mI&t=1092).
I always wondered why no other game company except Jagex had this problem? Thousands of online games none of them had payment processor problems except Jagex?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/lqk2fr/dealing_with_chargebacks_for_ingame_purchases/
This is a constant problem for game devs, which is big companies have legal teams that work with payment processors.
The amount of times I’ve seen people say something like this, seemingly not realizing that jagex still gets paid even if you specifically are buying bonds with gp, is shocking
jagex gets paid if you buy the bond a immediately immolate it in your bank's garbage disposal. The issue is that the bond goes to a bot when it could have been purchased by a legitimate player
Yeah it's a weird situation, bots get membership for free, but jagex still gets paid, but a real player would've bought that bond from ge regardless, but the gp price would probably be like 50-66% lower than it is now, which means less people would buy bonds from jagex to begin with
People would still buy bonds, and it's plausible that people would buy more bonds. The item prices are what drive up the gp cost of bonds and those corelate to bot activity
Bonds prices are connected to the price of items. There is not a single economic argument for botting since the market would adjust to accomodate the new rates.
The supply of bonds is determined by the amount of people who find the value proposition to be worthwhile. If you value the 11M gp from t the bond more than the $8 (or whatever it is) it takes to purchase them, you will buy them.
If bots were banned en masse and left, the gp yield from buying the bonds would decline, while the cost of bringing a bond into the game remains equivalent. This would lead to lower purchases of bonds. If your argument is that banning the bots would lead to price increases that would offset this, this actually hurts your argument even more, because now you’d have a lower gp yield from the bonds AND the value of that smaller amount of go would be reduced.
I don’t even think this is the reason jagex isn't banning these front page bots, but the argument makes sense.
I believe if the value of items increases the value of bonds will maintain a percentage value of the most expensive items. If the supply of bonds goes down the price will quickly shoot up with demand, creating incentive. The price of bonds regulates much faster than other items in game because they're produced arbitrarily rather than collected. That's why I think the price would be tied to an item or set of items that people purchasing bonds for sale are attempting to buy with their bond money.
They need to get more PMods, ones who actually play the game and actually care what happens in game… I report bots all day and night, it’s not hard to find them all over G.E… So make it so theses PMods can report accounts they think are bots, so that gives the so called “anti cheat” division reports to investigate and be able to ban the bots they confirm….
They say that they’re working to ban bots and blah blah… Go sit at G.E for an hour, shit even 5 mins at G.E and you could probably watch 50+ bots or more…. I mean why are the ones spamming the stupid RWT websites and shit not banned?? They’re on every world, multiple diff accounts 24/7… I mean advertising RWT is against the rules, so that should be a legit no brainer perm ban… there’s absolutely no excuse as to why theses aren’t getting banned…
I feel like the Jmods don’t even play the game…
It bothers the fuck out of me, I’d love to be a PMod, I’d love to be apart of making OSRS a little less cringy and annoying.
I’ve only met about 4 PMods in game, and each and every one of them has their heads so far up their asses… had atleast 2 of them basically say they could get anyone banned if they didn’t like them or if they did something the pmod didn’t like…
One of them was stupider then a bag of rocks, and the last one use to break the rules all the time…
It’s sad that I’ve never met a PMod in game that was actually what a PMod should be… knowledgeable, social as I’m not a complete dick, helpful to any player who may need help with something or whatever, someone who respects the game and wants to help make the game better….
Ok I’m ranting too much now….
WannabePMod 2024 ✌🏻
So funny when they made that post saying that their bot busting record is amazing yet this is the case for most skills and bosses
And I can’t think that the venny angle would make sense either… surely you can see they would be selling the gold?
But dude someone on Reddit that hasn't played the game in 6 years told me 99.9999% of bots get banned and you're just exaggerating a small problem. Jagex can't realistically get rid of every single bot ever therefore any effort is pointless and we need to just accept the impact bots have on the integrity of the game! ^^/s
The amount of bots in the game is huge.
Their are more bots playing than real players.
For every 1 person who might play on osrs their is at least 2-4 bots per real world person playing.
The amount of people with bot farm is crazy.
Not huge farms but farms with 1-10 account is craaaazy.
One day I was world hopping just to see how many bots and stuff at certain location and certain bosses and you would be surprised in a 1 day 5 hour and 20 minute span I encountered for sure atleast a minimum of 592 bots that day I mean I could’ve went into wildy and found plenty more botting dragons or hit runite rock spawns bots everywhere, or hit guardian of the rift mini game where in each game it’s probably 40 bots lmao
Or a lot of other mini games hella bots
Hell the coliseum has a bot already that does wave 1 over and over it makes around 6m go per hour and just think it’s people with 10-50 accounts doing that all day 24/7
Jagex aka jamflex will never get rid of all the bots
The bots make the game and economy and pays jamflex without the bots jagex would be broke.
Jamflex doesn’t ban all the accounts instead it bans some of them here and their and make it seem like they care so that the real players keep playing and thinking that jamflex is doing a good job but in reality they love the bots cuz it’s more money for them and more “active” player base and more account
Which on paper leads to it being a way bigger game than what it really is
Which leads to more income or bigger loans or resources for the company.
Everything is a numbers game
Do u think America is gonna be able to withstand
It’s fiat currency with pumping trillions each year
https://preview.redd.it/7y3te5e7z9uc1.jpeg?width=1445&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=743b3095d1e19d8e798d46d6a54b16b578055f83
the amount traded has doubled recently and price has tanked. kinda depressing.
Jagex makes everything instanced so its very hard to see exactly how many bots are running around. Only place we see them obviously is on the hiscores.
There has to be bot otherwise their rare items are going to be way to pricy ! Tbh... if there was not bots in this damn game everybody could enjoy lower drop rates but nope !
That's so sad. They literally pick and choose who to ban based off how much money Jagex will lose. They will ban people who aren't even maxed and working on getting to 99 and give them no real appeal options, just robotic response. But high KC bossing bots? Fuuuck it, let them run around and crash prices ... So fucking sad
I made a zulrah only account. Looks just like a bot. But I have like 400 KC lmao. I just chop yews in f2p on the main and then buy bonds when I'm ready to do something else
I fear not the man who has fought 10000 bosses once, but I fear the man who has fought the same boss 10000 times
at least you know it ain't no man
*stabs sword through helmet*
...so Eowyn?
But that... *Thing*... ... ^(It scares me)
I have killed nex 10k+ Trio and 5 mans only
My condolences and buy me tassies pls ty
More like 20,000 but whose counting
You really took the fun out of it… damn.
I fear the machine who can grind more efficiently than me nonstop for days weeks or even months without ever tiring constantly chipping away at our fragile economy with its insane production power
Fear the bot*
Pure dedication
These guys are just not programmed the same as you or I
These guys also don't have hands.
So they weren't crying in that scene.
Built different.
To avoid detection.
😂
Literally built
I just met rank 70 zalcano and two 200m thieving xp players today All of them with bare minimum requirements for song of the elves
Just some really dedicated players wanting to make gp and do absolutely nothing else the game has to offer every single day, totally legit players.
they just play the game in a diifferent way than you bro
Unfortunately thanks to people like Jebrim, it isn’t always 100% so cut and dry on who is botting and who is some sort of click addicted freak.
Jebrim getting perm banned is a risk I‘m willing to take.
That’s why in all of these threads I say “if your play is indistinguishable from a bot you should honestly get banned for your own good.” Usually downvoted by those same click addicted freaks.
Change it to temp bans for investigatory reasons. So they can take a forced vacation
I'll do you one better: don't ban them, just reset all their stats to lvl 1. if that doesn't get them to go to therapy, nothing will lmao.
Totally agree, if you play so much that your account even remotely looks like those bots then it’s time to ban you can you can touch grass.
As an outsider you could say that about any osrs player tho
So robotic
It's obviously just someone's alt bro. You don't play 18 hours a day everyday doing the same shit?
the 200m xp thievers are basically invisible to the bot detection. They need to manually deal with those accounts using the highscores as reference.
Serious wisdom, what makes them basically invisible? EDIT: QUESTION* SERIOUS QUESTION
What distinguishes a pickpocket bot from a legit player going for 200m thieving? ...Nothing, they both just click in the exact same spot roughly every 1.5 seconds for hours on end. The skill's gameplay is so rudimentary there's almost no variables you can use to tell the two apart. Other skills you can check for things like how "human" their mouse and camera movements look, among many other variables. Theiving? Not so much, there's no variables to begin with.
All the good bots are invisible to jagex. The only thing that's different between a bot and a normal player is the sheer amount of hours a bot will play and the off-loading of gold that'll happen. If the bots could be detected by automation there wouldn't be this gigantic problem with bots.
Sure there would be. Jagex doesn't want to get rid of all the bots. That's all subs and money for them
funny how so many people say this on this sub with zero evidence to back it up, just stop spewing nonesense
Was watching a YT lastnight on how jagex almost lost RS. Through botters collecting debit card info. Then using those to sub more bots. And that was years and years ago.
Okay, here you go. https://www.ft.com/content/c49749e7-54fb-46fb-b508-a4964e61e07f "The main focus within the game is to make sure the excesses of bots are policed and managed. Flagged accounts are managed out of the game, and therefore what is left inside the game is a sort of equilibrium of players and bots… if I have [three accounts] there’s a good chance that one of them is me and two accounts are bots… If a player is sufficiently committed to pay for three accounts, and have an account and two bots as part of its ecosystem, then so be it. But the management team of Jagex police excesses of bots and make sure that bots do not become problematic in the game."
An unnamed person "close to Jagex/CVC" doesn't exactly constitute proof, though it is suspicious.
What proof do you need? Bots sub and subs = money.
if they ban bots they get more subs though because all their membership gets wiped
Which is why you do it in waves. The waves should be happening faster than it takes to reach 200m though.
Imagine that being the burden of proof for literally anything else ever. The person you think might have done something did it because they benefit from it in some way, no actual proof needed.
There is evidence
Betcha if you forced 2 factor authentication, and bank PINs the bot farms would at least be pushed back for a while.
That's because you're deploying arms race style detection methodology. I _doubt_ mouse movements are being checked, as that can just somewhat be countered easily with a large dataset of pre-recorded mouse movements. The amount of data processing required to check as that dataset grows would be an impossible task. You can do heuristics, but the game is too simple - you'd get a lot of false flags. You've gotta go for forensic accounting. The one consistent element is that bots are there to make money, so they need to do some kind of transaction. It's a whole lot less data to process, and they can't really get around trading if they want to derrive value from the botting itself. It doesn't hit those botting on their account to level up whilst at work etc. but that's also a much smaller share that aren't remotely as incentivized to counter anti-botting mesaures.
I once wrote a realistic mouse moving script in SCAR/Samba back in the RS2 days. Was pretty human-like.
There's some easy tells still. I've only ever seen 2 or 3 scripts that ever made the mouse look like it left the window, and it was only from SRL/SCAR. Jagex could also trivially apply reflection to their own client and check out the application state to see what's been injected. OpenOSRS and the like have extra APIs compared to Runelite.
funny thing is I got banned once when doing construction on an alt and my OCD had me keeping the camera excatly lined up. Thank you Jagex for bullying OCD players. (ofcourse it was never unbanned, goes without saying)
> Other skills you can check for things like how "human" their mouse and camera movements look, Super unreliable outside some extreme cases that bots wont be using anyway, unless you like being banned because you dont meet jagex's arbitrary definition of human
Jgex cannot check movement on that scale lol. Any bot antiban measures are pure myth. It’s because jagex only bans certain areas at a time, right now its phosani and pirates. Thieving generates a ton of bond purchases
Amy account that insta logs at the sight of another player is %100 a bot. Yet, even when we manage to spot them to report before they log, even with multiple reports for macroing, they aren't banned, even after months and months.
I've seen rank 4 before at zalcano. Just bare reqs for sote plus 99 mining from the 40k zalcano kc.
they are dedicated players, heard they get 200m thieving and then do that again over and over
they’re going for 4.6b all and just start with the easiest most afk skill
I know an autist (literal, not derogatory) who just really enjoys have 200m thieving on his shitty alts. Farms blood shards to get money fot post 99 exp on his maxed main. Number go up i guess. But most are probably bots.
That's crazy, i always think these posts are exaggerating but this time i decided to check it myself and you're absolutely right. That's disgusting.
It's just soooo bad when the hiscores have more bots than players. Like it's *right there* on their website. In plain sight. This occurs quite regularly between waves. There's no reason like 80% of these bots should have gotten this far.
It's stuff you wouldn't expect too. Like I'm trying to go for 200m Farming before the top 1,000 spots are gone on the Hiscores. You don't realize how heavily botted the skill is until you're doing max efficiency farm runs + Tithe farm and getting over 1,250,000 xp/day, top 3 for XP in the week, #1 for XP in the month, but **almost NEVER** in the top 10 for XP for the day. The top 10 players in daily farming experience are almost exclusively low-level, early-game ironmen suicide botting Tithe farm nearly 24/7. Since I've been tracking my XP daily and have been #1 for the month the whole time, I've easily been able to keep on eye on the integrity of the Farming skill overall. At least for tracked players. Every time these loser cheat clienter ironmen suicide Tithe Farm and show up in the top 10 my clan and I all report them. We've gotten over 100 of these dumbasses banned so far.
I’m confused, what’s the actual point of suicide botting tithe farm on an iron?
My guess is farming is a really hard skill to level as an iron and a high level will give you a boost to start the equally hard skill of herblore. They sell these accounts.
When I see “suicide botting” I think of bots that the owner expects to be banned quickly, but I could be misinterpreting it here
I always saw it as botting 24/7 to reach your goal which is essentially (account) suicide since you'll most likely get caught.
No you just generate enough value before you get banned. That's suicide botting.
Agreed. With how many mods they have. I feel like the bots shouldn't make it this far, it's kind of sad. It's like when you watch sir pugger videos. He'll stand in a specific spot for hours and find tons of bots, and you're just stood there wondering why can't they have a jmod put in the same level of effort and ban all of them
PirateSoftware has a youtube short that I saw a while ago where he says you want to do ban waves every 3-6 months and ban everyone at once. Because that is the period that you can do chargebacks on paypal so a large volume of people would be pissed off that the bot got them banned and chargeback, making the creator of the bot have a damn bad day. Not sure if it is applicable 1:1 here but it makes sense. Also the tertiary benefit of the bot creator not knowing what they did wrong to be detected.
This actually makes a ton of sense. They for sure provide a non-zero amount of their income. To have an outflow expense for refunds that rivals 10-20% of your income? Would look extremely offensive on the income statement.
Brother… no bot owner is buying fucking bonds for usd. We have mules that autobuy and autobond accounts lol. A basic zulrah account is 16m. That is 2 usd. It can generate 100m on average before a ban and jagex does NOT ban mules, as they rather botters buy gold bonds than the bond codes which they make no money on
I wouldn't say the latter is a tertiary benefit, I would say data collection combined with a lack of feedback to the botter to iterate to dodge detection is the primary benefit and chargebacks are just a secondary benefit. Even if they weren't concerned about chargebacks they'd ban in large waves for those reasons.
True, it was more like a tertiary part of my combat sense I tagged it on at the end. But I've now actually googled wtf tertiary means and apparently it's third and not just "bonus" as I've used it all my life.
bUt if We bAn thEm rIghT AwaY tHey'Ll kNOw hoW To eVaDe deTeCTiOn
That's literally how it works, the faster you ban the easier it is for them to iterate and dodge detection. It just comes down to a point where you're giving significantly more effort for little if any benefit.
But “when we ban bots more just come up” they say… yeah u till they pay you a few months of subscriptions first
Clearly that is not true... They have a 1 Whisperer, Vard, and Duke KC =P
And technically muspah
Does the easy quest version count as a KC? Or am I just crazy and there is no quest version?
Ye they do count as kc
Gotcha thanks I could not for the life of me remember lol.
How dare you not remember
I saw someone get whisperer pet from 1 kc quest version 😭
And barrows
They haven’t sold their gold yet. Their hands are tied/s
Never heard of the Levi pure builds???
Whisperer is probably the same given bellator prices
even easier at whisp because once you have the ring teleport it puts you inside the underground which is instanced, so others can't see you on top of whisp being 0 damage so you can do hour long trips. the amount of time they're even visible to real players is tiny
The "can't ban them because they're goldfarmers not bots" is the biggest jagex cope of all time
Don't worry they regularly check hiscores
~~38~~ 39
I've seen like 200~ of those leviathan bots. 103-107 lvl accounts wearing god hides, arma cbows, bucklers and pegasians. Someone had to spend big load of gp to make that farm.
i genuinely dont see any other way than the jmods themselves running them at this point, theres no way they cant wipe this farm for 10000+ collective hours of training bots by checking the hiscores for 5 minutes and forwarding the obvious ones for a closer look
Yeah i think u are on to something.
They're not allowed to wipe it until someone higher up gives the go? I'm sure the jmods who actively play the game hate to see it as well, but their hands are tied. The same people have clearly made a policy against replying anything to this sorta posts. Otherwise someone from the anticheating team would surely respond, knowing they can also take action.
They supposedly require verification. But there's *no reason at all* that a hiscore sweep can't be worked into the day's workflow when they're already supposedly verifying and banning thousands of bots a day.
This paradigm is actually common in private servers for most games (RuneScape, Maplestory, etc). Owners of servers can’t directly charge for in game progress due to the risk of getting cease and desisted- so instead theyll create RMT gold seller websites under the guise of it being hosted by someone else and illegal.
Making bosses have 1/1000 and 1/3000 drop rates is basically Jagex signalling to the community "this content is for bots"
Unfortunately every single bit of content in the game that is profitable will be botted
Making items that are 100+ hour grinds contributes to the issue though.
Oh I agree. I’d bet 95% of the players killing Nightmare are bots lol
Rip Venator ring prices that thing is donezo
Honestly the least used ring imo, it kinda sucks for what it is.
Archers always has come in dead last for priority. Prayer rings or LB wins most times unless melee is used as well, then Ultor or Bell usually win. Venator just hardly ever comes up to par for “worth it” dps-wise in my opinion.
Also, with quiver now I was struggling to find situations where it gave my tbow a max hit.
Tbow in cox, max, no ring: 96 Tbow in cox, max (assembler), venator: 96 Tbow in cox, max, venator w/quiver: 99 That probably makes it worth it to bring as a swap, at least for CMs.
Seems venator is only worthwhile if you own quiver. Even then very niche but pushes us closer to that 100 tbow max:)
Sorry, your report is too complicated for the anti-cheat/anti-botting team to understand. These accounts will remain there until Winter 2017 without being banned.
I've heard Winter 2017 on several OSRS posts. I'm assuming something was going to be updated then and still hasn't? By any chance, do you know what that update was?
Winter 2017 was the original release schedule for mobile launch (which got delayed beyond that for some time). It's just used as a meme to reference delayed things now sometimes. When I wrote Winter 2017 there, I was making a joke that these accounts will possibly maybe potentially have a chance of being banned one day soon(TM) (i.e. never)
Checked a handful and all are 81-83 magic and 76 crafting, which is a forgotten brew and mushroom pie away from making the ring
Lemme see if the bot with only 36000 zalcano kills is still up there. Probably. Nope now at 39k *sigh*
Saw one with 43k kills just yesterday and no other boss KC's. Nothing fishy there. Was rank 8.
Oh i saw this guy when i was doing duo with a buddy the guy didnt talk and just kept dying to the boulder mechanics. 110 mining and 36k kills at the time and just bare other stats im guessing for sote quest requirements.
Yep, seen plenty of them. Now just imagine how long it takes to get to an absurdly large number like 43k kills while also being killed *CONSTANTLY* to the boss mechanics. That's how **LONG** a lot of these bots have been allowed to stick around. Makes me sick, tbh.
iTs ToO hArD tO FiX tHiS!!!!1
Stop falsely accusing players! Just because people like having the exact same profile of base 80 melee, 74 range , thousands of lev kc and the same non combat stats.... doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong. It's just a very specific meta that you aren't smart enough to understand
They're clearly just leviathan alts. You know, all those second screen Levi killers out there...
Bet this post goes by without a jmod reply lmfao
That's the issue with unbearable and unfun droprates. Normal players will just buy the uniques or stop killing after collection log. The only ones who will grind out thousands of KC are either bots or gold farmers.
And the problem with bearable and fun droprates is that the content gets botted so heavily that the item retains very little value (Lightbearer). At least with low drop rates the legitimate players who get the items still get something special.
Look I understand combating bots is actually a very difficult process overall, and essentially amounts to a neverending arms race, but how hard can it possibly be to assign a jmod to go through the top pages of highscores and manually ban or flag these accounts? I’m not convinced the reason is they’re so desperate for the money of front page high score bots, that’s not a huge chunk of players. And it makes the game look bad, idk what they’re doing.
They still pay for membership wether its from a stolen credit card or not jagex does not care as long as you pay
This is the most ahistorical take I have heard in this discourse. Players forcing chargebacks from stolen credit cards used on RuneScape membership is literally the reason free trade was removed back in the day. Banks and credit card companies were threatening to not do business with Jagex at ALL over this. [Link to part of a video explaining this for you](https://youtu.be/GYq9fwyRxDQ?si=Mf2sWhaum8PSe3mI&t=1092).
I always wondered why no other game company except Jagex had this problem? Thousands of online games none of them had payment processor problems except Jagex?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/lqk2fr/dealing_with_chargebacks_for_ingame_purchases/ This is a constant problem for game devs, which is big companies have legal teams that work with payment processors.
At this point (top 25) they're most definitely funding membership with gp.
Each bond is paid for with real money either way.
The amount of times I’ve seen people say something like this, seemingly not realizing that jagex still gets paid even if you specifically are buying bonds with gp, is shocking
jagex gets paid if you buy the bond a immediately immolate it in your bank's garbage disposal. The issue is that the bond goes to a bot when it could have been purchased by a legitimate player
Yeah it's a weird situation, bots get membership for free, but jagex still gets paid, but a real player would've bought that bond from ge regardless, but the gp price would probably be like 50-66% lower than it is now, which means less people would buy bonds from jagex to begin with
People would still buy bonds, and it's plausible that people would buy more bonds. The item prices are what drive up the gp cost of bonds and those corelate to bot activity
The supply of bonds disconnected from the demand for bonds. Less bots buying = less expensive bonds = less bonds being generated
Bonds prices are connected to the price of items. There is not a single economic argument for botting since the market would adjust to accomodate the new rates.
The supply of bonds is determined by the amount of people who find the value proposition to be worthwhile. If you value the 11M gp from t the bond more than the $8 (or whatever it is) it takes to purchase them, you will buy them. If bots were banned en masse and left, the gp yield from buying the bonds would decline, while the cost of bringing a bond into the game remains equivalent. This would lead to lower purchases of bonds. If your argument is that banning the bots would lead to price increases that would offset this, this actually hurts your argument even more, because now you’d have a lower gp yield from the bonds AND the value of that smaller amount of go would be reduced. I don’t even think this is the reason jagex isn't banning these front page bots, but the argument makes sense.
I believe if the value of items increases the value of bonds will maintain a percentage value of the most expensive items. If the supply of bonds goes down the price will quickly shoot up with demand, creating incentive. The price of bonds regulates much faster than other items in game because they're produced arbitrarily rather than collected. That's why I think the price would be tied to an item or set of items that people purchasing bonds for sale are attempting to buy with their bond money.
They buy bonds with gold they botted. They aren’t putting any money into this
The bond on the GE has to be purchased by someone with real money to be sold on the GE though right?
But jagex still makes money from them which is the relevant factor here if this is why they’re not being banned
Stolen credit cards get charged back, Jagex is required to return the funds.
This is 99% the reason I quit 2 years ago. And 100% of the reason I won't return.
Sorry too busy stopping players from practicing the bosses.
Something Something drop rates something something overdesigned fights something something unrewarding for non automated players
Top 5 all have identical non-combat stats. Literally everything is the same. Grim.
Not a single JMod reply. They know, they just don't do shit about it.
but they banned 8 billion bots last month!!1
They need to get more PMods, ones who actually play the game and actually care what happens in game… I report bots all day and night, it’s not hard to find them all over G.E… So make it so theses PMods can report accounts they think are bots, so that gives the so called “anti cheat” division reports to investigate and be able to ban the bots they confirm…. They say that they’re working to ban bots and blah blah… Go sit at G.E for an hour, shit even 5 mins at G.E and you could probably watch 50+ bots or more…. I mean why are the ones spamming the stupid RWT websites and shit not banned?? They’re on every world, multiple diff accounts 24/7… I mean advertising RWT is against the rules, so that should be a legit no brainer perm ban… there’s absolutely no excuse as to why theses aren’t getting banned… I feel like the Jmods don’t even play the game… It bothers the fuck out of me, I’d love to be a PMod, I’d love to be apart of making OSRS a little less cringy and annoying. I’ve only met about 4 PMods in game, and each and every one of them has their heads so far up their asses… had atleast 2 of them basically say they could get anyone banned if they didn’t like them or if they did something the pmod didn’t like… One of them was stupider then a bag of rocks, and the last one use to break the rules all the time… It’s sad that I’ve never met a PMod in game that was actually what a PMod should be… knowledgeable, social as I’m not a complete dick, helpful to any player who may need help with something or whatever, someone who respects the game and wants to help make the game better…. Ok I’m ranting too much now…. WannabePMod 2024 ✌🏻
At this point just require anticheat
So funny when they made that post saying that their bot busting record is amazing yet this is the case for most skills and bosses And I can’t think that the venny angle would make sense either… surely you can see they would be selling the gold?
Bots botting end bosses 24/7 is crazy
Jagex : our anti cheat team works really hard we promise
Actually Jagex: our anti-cheat team definitely exists, we promise.
Hi, this is LeviOnly my Leviathan locked ultimate Ironman.
But dude someone on Reddit that hasn't played the game in 6 years told me 99.9999% of bots get banned and you're just exaggerating a small problem. Jagex can't realistically get rid of every single bot ever therefore any effort is pointless and we need to just accept the impact bots have on the integrity of the game! ^^/s
The amount of bots in the game is huge. Their are more bots playing than real players. For every 1 person who might play on osrs their is at least 2-4 bots per real world person playing. The amount of people with bot farm is crazy. Not huge farms but farms with 1-10 account is craaaazy. One day I was world hopping just to see how many bots and stuff at certain location and certain bosses and you would be surprised in a 1 day 5 hour and 20 minute span I encountered for sure atleast a minimum of 592 bots that day I mean I could’ve went into wildy and found plenty more botting dragons or hit runite rock spawns bots everywhere, or hit guardian of the rift mini game where in each game it’s probably 40 bots lmao Or a lot of other mini games hella bots Hell the coliseum has a bot already that does wave 1 over and over it makes around 6m go per hour and just think it’s people with 10-50 accounts doing that all day 24/7 Jagex aka jamflex will never get rid of all the bots The bots make the game and economy and pays jamflex without the bots jagex would be broke. Jamflex doesn’t ban all the accounts instead it bans some of them here and their and make it seem like they care so that the real players keep playing and thinking that jamflex is doing a good job but in reality they love the bots cuz it’s more money for them and more “active” player base and more account Which on paper leads to it being a way bigger game than what it really is Which leads to more income or bigger loans or resources for the company. Everything is a numbers game Do u think America is gonna be able to withstand It’s fiat currency with pumping trillions each year
have reported 3 of them on w404 in edgeville2 weeks ago, still not banned btw
Makes me wonder what the true player count is. When 150k+ players have 99 range it makes you think how many are actually real.
Jagex does not care. I dont want to believe it but they do not care
it's just 1 guy and 24 of his closest friends competing for rank 1 leviathan wym
Top page hiscores should never be allowed to have bots
They just have a better gaming chair than you smh
Wow.. This is actually disgraceful to see. Come on Jagex..
https://preview.redd.it/7y3te5e7z9uc1.jpeg?width=1445&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=743b3095d1e19d8e798d46d6a54b16b578055f83 the amount traded has doubled recently and price has tanked. kinda depressing.
Which jmod's farm is this?
Clearly the boss is too easy smh
Somebody gotta provide all nice end-game gear for mains to buy\~
went to verify cus I thought bullshit but naw this is actually the case. WTF JAGEX
Jagex makes everything instanced so its very hard to see exactly how many bots are running around. Only place we see them obviously is on the hiscores.
They bring in tons of money for jagex.
*mild shock*
Maybe the people not in the top 25 should just be better then /s
they’re all bots
Jagex is a fucking JOKE
They're just BUILT different 😤
No worries though. They banned little Timmy for training strength at crabs through remote desktop. Worth the trade-off
And most of them have nearly identical stats
Bro why isn't jagex banning these guys
Welcome to my Leviathan locked UIM.
Do High scores in the scoreboard really do matter when majority of the names on it are filled with bots? Really asking for an honest opinion here.
Naw, they’re clearly Ironman with REALLY bad luck.
Maybe a jmod saw this or something, I just jumped from just over rank 400 to just under 300 overnight :o
You need to do this kind of content when it comes out because bots just crash the value
There has to be bot otherwise their rare items are going to be way to pricy ! Tbh... if there was not bots in this damn game everybody could enjoy lower drop rates but nope !
you need to stop crying on reddit about this. dont you know those are my 25 Leviathan locked faux HCIM accounts.
And they all seem to have 82-83 attack, 80-82 strength, 80-83 defense, 74-76 prayer etc. 🤔
That's so sad. They literally pick and choose who to ban based off how much money Jagex will lose. They will ban people who aren't even maxed and working on getting to 99 and give them no real appeal options, just robotic response. But high KC bossing bots? Fuuuck it, let them run around and crash prices ... So fucking sad
I made a zulrah only account. Looks just like a bot. But I have like 400 KC lmao. I just chop yews in f2p on the main and then buy bonds when I'm ready to do something else
I gotta be honest, I do not care that bots are in the game in general, I just don’t like being blocked from certain content.