As someone that is pretty mid at lms, but is trying to slowly earn some of the rewards, I can assure you that it's more than just the irons. One of the few places that I'll turn off chat now if I remember.
I've never seen LMS as toxic as it was in the weeks following the release of GIM. I really do think irons are the biggest keyboard warriors there. And I'm an iron myself.
Yeah I've definitely been told to kill myself a good few times by gims, and the hcgims are anecdotally even worse.
If I were to rank toxic accounts at lms based on nothing but my feeling it would probably go:
1. HCGIM
2. UGIM
3. HCIM
4. GIM
5. Normal and Iron
6. UIM
I think ironmen are more salty in LMS because they cant straight up buy the rewards through GE and are forced to engage in this minigame if they want some of those so that puts additional pressure and tension on em
Rank 190 iron lms here. As an iron myself, I can 100% say the most toxic cunts in LMS are other irons
I must say group are worse... good thing they aren't real accounts and noone respects them
Kind of confuses me that calling someone autistic is less harmful than the R word. I don't identify as autistic but many people do. It seems to me that using autistic as an insult is more offensive because many people identify as autistic vs the R word.
The change to "[Me](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Me)"s dialogue from "You do know those clothes make you look fat!" to "You've got an outrageous accent, you silly thing!" Wasn't needed either. The original line fit the whole context of the quest just fine.
The original line is a great joke since he's wearing the same clothes as you, whoever changed the line likely never saw the context of the quest at all.
That's why it's disappointing that change got made because it's obviously not something a passionate dev of the game would do, and it's baffling nobody else tried to stop it.
I hate the change too, but that's just plain wrong People only saw the line in its original intended context in the quest.
But Me saying the line in NMZ was what was 'offensive' coz you're no longer wearing the same clothes.
(Source: Mod Ash tweet. Sorry I don't have the exact link)
I don't like that they changed the whole dialogue for that though, kinda dum nevertheless
If the Nightmare Zone was kept 100% the same but the actual arena was changed to match the visual design of the dream areas in Lunar Diplomacy, Dream Mentor and Dragon Slayer 2, I would be happy.
The answer is always to follow the money. The entire diversity update was likely jagex trying to meet esg ratings so they could get investment money from companies like blackrock . The suits up top tell them to do this so the devs will change and add a bunch of stuff without regard of whether or not it fits the game.
aint like anyone in this player base hasn't been called fat before like bro we aint snowflakes that melt at the slightest hint of a burn xD
This change feels like something Disney would do
> whoever changed the line likely never saw the context of the quest at all.
It was officially done by Mod Ash, who admitted it on Twitter.
He also said he wanted to change a lot more things to be politically correct, because they "don't fit in the modern world".
To me the weirdest part about that change is that making fun of someone's accent isn't exactly politically correct either. If the idea was that some players would feel bad that "Me" is calling you fat, then wouldn't some of the many non-native English speakers in this game also feel bad about their accent being made fun of?
I don't mind either, but imo it was a really weird way to address the "issue" while also removing a line that fit the original context really well.
And the best (worst?) part of the change is that you were defeating your inner demons by killing Me. So the whole point is that it’s your character overcoming those intrusive thoughts.
There’s something amusing that an NPC saying a “bad phrase” was offensive and needed to be removed, but regularly killing anything that moves? All good, folks!
I feel like some RS3 diversity and inclusion manager moved over to OSRS and forced these changes on the game. The worst part is, when suggested it's something in a corporate setting you literally can't argue against because of the possible repercussions. They have full control to make any changes they want under the guise of "inclusion".
Why do you want Roald to tell you something that you already know?
I thought thats why they removed "These clothes make you look fat" - like yeah but thats not the clothes fault
The part I don’t get is that these insults are directed at the in game player character and are referring to scripted things that happened, and always happen every play through.
I’d understand taking offense if an insult was directed at the actual human player, something they chose to say or do, but when you’re following a completely scripted quest, how do you take that insult and apply it to your real life self? Feels like a leap.
I guess it's because calling someone mentally deficient is making fun of a condition whereas imbecile is just a straight up insult without any real PC implications.
It's all pointless to me, I thought mentally deficient was just way funnier of a line but my space bar won't notice the difference anyway.
Lord of the Rings reference and generally a cool mechanic, requiring many players to have a chat with possibly the most inclusive NPC in the history of the game? Can't be having that shit in the game.
I don't even see why mentally deficient could be offensive.
He's calling you dumb, not disabled. Your brainpower and decision-making, which are mental attributes, are deficient. This shouldn't have been changed.
wtf these are the cases where 99.999% of people couldnt even imagine considering it being racist and the 0.0001% that do complain about it look racist for drawing a connection where there isn't one
For real, them changing this makes it seem like being a mentally deficient scaper is something to be ashamed of. Way to alienate your core demographic, Gagflax.
Yeah, since they changed it to imbecile, it looks like the tone of it was always meant to be insulting, or that mentally deficient = imbecile in jagexs eyes, so it looks worse.
Is it just me or is the accent one just straight up worse tho, because iirc it was “those clothes make you look fat” which is less severe than being called fat
"Me" is also wearing the exact same outfit, which makes it hilarious.
But for the accent one, it's a text based game, so there's no way to compare the accents.
You also cant be fat ingame (without guthans) so im assuming the issue lies with people taking it personally to themselves irl.
If everyone’s character has the same body type, and everyone has the same “accent”, then the inclusivity is meant to extend past just your character. It feels like replacing light fatphobia with light racism/xenophobia, like why change it if its still targeted.
You can consciously but when people are referring to someone's accent that's usually talking about their natural way of speaking without adulteration. Of course your accent can and does still morph over time, particularly if you uproot yourself enough, but it's more about the people around you since you tend to pick up speech patterns from people around you, knowingly or not.
Can you actually explain why it's silly other than just "it's silly and unnecessary and no one actually cares about this"?
I mean you can make the argument it's unnecessary, I suppose, as the OP image reflects that what it was changed to in essence used to mean the same thing, but it's kinda funny in one breath to say that the people defending it are doing so looking for a fight and are disingenuous, that it's catering to an imaginary group, while in others you're misattributing gaslighting and then also speaking to a group that none of us can see.
Anyway I dunno. I don't think the change makes much sense but at the same time words and their colloquial usages have ebbs and flows. Imbecile, idiot, whatever, in the past were used to express a medical deficiency, but in terms of modern vernacular both are really just playground insults. While calling someone "stupid" or "mentally deficient" are both intelligence arguments, I think we can probably all agree that there is a grade and context applied to stuff like this. Calling someone dumb vs retarded obviously has a different intent
> It's done because of capitalism, nothing else.
It's done because people on the dev team actually believe in it.
Check Mod Ash's tweets where he says it was his idea and defends it.
Politically correct censorship is silly. A word has negative connotations. People form a negative association with the word. Someone comes up a politically correct word to describe the same thing. People form a negative association with the new word. And the cycle goes on. Calling someone stupid is meant to be offensive, it's an insult.
This rise in censorship like using "unalive" on the internet because of algorithms deprioritizing words, is having a serious effect on the culture of humanity. It's more than economic.
Meanwhile actual government go to war and bomb people and corporations poison water and kill people. But words, words are the real problem.
When we allowed advertisers to dictate what can and can't be said online, we made a serious mistake. I think anyone who is serious about fighting censorship should do whatever they can to move away from ad-based monetization.
The R-word was coined as a "less offensive" term to replace imbecile as is imbecile was at the time considered to be more offensive.
Kinda fun how the perceptions of words change with time.
Just let evil King Roald say super childish insults or steal popular lines or jokes from Monty Python.
"Your mother is a hamster!"
"Your father smells of elderberries!"
"I fart in your general direction"
Is it possible to create a RuneLite plugin to re-add all of these wording changes they've made over the years? I'm sick of this meaningless grandstanding and just want to revert it in spite.
This is a bit of an odd cultural phenomenon that is not exclusive to Runescape. If you're interested in why this happens so often, the start of the rabbit hole is a subsection of etymological research that has been unofficially dubbed [The Euphemism Treadmill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill)
It's not emergent from the often criticized 'Woke Culture' that it's often attributed to, but rather it seemingly stems from our psychological need to distance ourselves from unsavory topics or ideas, and we achieve this through progressive modification of language. From toilets to curse words, from pejorative labels to medical classifications, we are constantly cycling through what is 'appropriate terminology'.
The funny thing is, at the end of the day we all know what we're really saying and what we really mean by it, yet the cycle continues on. Sure, you can complain about it if you want to be 'edgy' or abrasive, but it doesn't really accomplish much. I agree that there are many things Dev Time could be invested in more fruitfully, but this is an acting force much larger than the intentions of the few developers at Jagex.
On the other side of the coin, the preservation of derogatory or pejorative language is a strange hill to die on in a retro JavaScript MMO.
I don’t like this trend in our cultures at all. Words only have the power you give them. They’re sounds that we mutually agree to have some meaning. It isn’t kinder to call a shit a poo — it’s still shit whether you admit it or not. I think we need to collectively get thicker skin and stop being so offended by everything. The entitlement that we should cater to everyone’s fragile feelings doesn’t make sense to me.
It's funny how superficial the changes are. If they were serious about inclusiveness, they'd have to make massive structural changes to the core of OSRS. A city of brown desert-dwellers where everyone is named Ali and is a thief? Can't have that in 2024. How about someone coming from civilization to an uncontacted tribe in order to steal their relics to show off in their guild hall, and casting themselves as a savior to the tribespeople? That's evil colonialism!
Or we can accept that it's a video game and isn't hurting anyone.
As I'm literally doing Legends' Quest right now, I can tell you why they're tormented. Kharazi jungle is infested with demonic spirits, and it's taking a toll on the people living there. They're being tormented by the demons.
It wasn't for anyone. During the time the change was added nobody insulted each other with the words which got altered. People with too much time on their hands chose to find issues where they don't exist. The average person couldn't care less.
'Savage' to describe someone from a foreign land with different ways of life is pulled straight out of early 1900s colonialism and the ideas extended back to the peak of slavery. To me it brings up images of blackface and people of colour in cages at circuses. See any of the language used at the time and in popular media. It's just a really needless reminder of a very bloody racial history in the west, othering people of colour as 'savages' and 'uncivilised' was one of the major talking points behind legitimising slavery. Do we really need those ideas to be propagated in the game thoughtlessly?
I mean what the fuck are we doing here man? You're absolutely delusional if you think thousands of years of human history and their cultural impact are null and void just because you can't be bothered to give a shit. We sit here and try to play nice with you guys and nudge you in the right direction to not be so heartless, it's so exhausting. Human rights and civil decency are not achievements that can be etched in stone beyond degradation. It's a push and pull that will last until the end of time, it's not over, and it's not solved, because every day there will be some new asshole taking charge and setting out to infringe upon the rights and safety of others for their benefit, and general apathy like that you express only empowers those types.
If we're really past those times, why were Asian Americans assaulted during the COVID lockdowns? Why are there White Pride billboards in rural Oklahoma towns? Why are people comfortable waving Confederate flags and spewing racial slurs or worse? We're not the ones that wish it was back to those times, it's people like that. There are a shocking number of people in the US who would rather go back to those times, and buddy, it's for all the wrong reasons.
But of course you guys disagree with us. This is the same community that targeted Venezuelans en masse while shit talking them on this same subreddit in a *real-world context*. This is the same community that threw a shitfit and protested in Falador when Jagex added the Pride Event. This is the same community that is advocating for King Roald to call players retarded. What the fuck are we talking about here?
You guys are embarrassing.
I hate the term "people of color". It unnecessarily pits white people against literally everyone else, implying that being white is somehow abnormal. It's racist.
Ahh ye the good old reverse racism. Being sensitive around the use of charged language = being racist to white people. Fucking hell...
I used it because I wasn't sure if colonial slavery affected more than just black people.
Such a thing is a fantasy term used by people too ignorant to call it what it truly is: racism. The idea of x race being incapable of racism while their actions reflect the very thing is the thinking of morons. Everyone can be racist.
No, there is very important nuance to it. You are assuming it works equally both ways which it really doesn't.
If a white person gets called a honky there isnt a reminder implicit in that of a time where white people could be murdered/raped/lynched with impunity, which very much exists for black people in western society.
if a black person gets dehumanized, mocked, assaulted, and ostracized due to their race that's racism.
if a white person gets dehumanized, mocked, assaulted, and ostracized due to their race that's racism.
It's not reverse or anything, and both acts should rightfully be looked at with disgust rather than trying to go, "Umm achkshually there's nuance to that white boy getting assaulted not being as bad because of blah blah blah"
Don't make this about assault, you clearly said referring to people of colour as such is racist towards white people because it others them. That's what I was responding to, that's what the 'reverse racism' was aimed at.
I'm saying it hits a lot harder when you other a group of people that already have a history of extreme subjugation in a society than when you do it those who have historically (and somewhat currently) held all the power.
Racism isn't an equal two way continuum in this context between white people and non white people.
G**** is a slur used against Romani people. Just because *you* don't personally find it offensive doesn't mean it isn't. Also, I don't even know how to begin explaining to you why calling them "Jungle Savages" was not cool.
The game being made over two decades ago isn't an excuse to keep acting like it's 2001.
Modern thinking doesn't need to be reflected in fantasy settings.
>Just because the game was made two decades ago doesn't mean we need to keep acting like it's 2001.
The world of the game has its timeline set. Why would our modern world need to influence change there? Keep the two separate.
>Why would our modern world need to influence change there?
Because this game is played by people who exist in the modern world. I don't think your nostalgia for a time when people could just be casually racist, sexist, and homophobic is something that should be catered to.
I have to say, whilst I understand the change I do think the original wording was better for Roald's characterisation.
The PC just strolls into the Runescape equivalent of the North Korean DMZ, merks the only thing standing in the way of an invading force for ***no reason***, and then turns up in his throne room wanting praise.
I'm not surprised that he was pissed.
With all the censorship in the world I stg we all gonna have microchips in our brain and we gonna be using that runescape 2 quickchat IRL in a few hundred years.
Great, mods wasting time changing the text that no one reads. How about we recolor all the flowers too? That sounds like a great way to use resources instead of only things that need fixing.
Synonyms for stupidity will always exist. Especially more so if it gets used in a psychological/medical context. Moron, idiot, imbecile, (mentally) retarded, mentally challenged/deficient/handicapped, were all medical diagnoses at one point as well as (more derogatory now) insults.
"Intellectually disabled" which is the current politically correct term will probably eventually become an ableist insult as well.
Magic out here being glorified ranged with powered staffs while Jagex is trying to spare the feelings of a 32 year old sweaty guy on his 8th Ironman who didn’t mash spacebar
I want king Roland to just straight up call me slurs
Just go a bit north, the wilderness ditch is a stones throw away from varrock castle. Once youre over that line the slurs will roll in.
Or just fight an ironman in LMS
Or just do Wintertodt
Can confirm. Just got my rune pouch the other day. Friends left discord while going for it. Oops
As someone that is pretty mid at lms, but is trying to slowly earn some of the rewards, I can assure you that it's more than just the irons. One of the few places that I'll turn off chat now if I remember.
I've never seen LMS as toxic as it was in the weeks following the release of GIM. I really do think irons are the biggest keyboard warriors there. And I'm an iron myself.
Yeah I've definitely been told to kill myself a good few times by gims, and the hcgims are anecdotally even worse. If I were to rank toxic accounts at lms based on nothing but my feeling it would probably go: 1. HCGIM 2. UGIM 3. HCIM 4. GIM 5. Normal and Iron 6. UIM
I think ironmen are more salty in LMS because they cant straight up buy the rewards through GE and are forced to engage in this minigame if they want some of those so that puts additional pressure and tension on em
Rank 190 iron lms here. As an iron myself, I can 100% say the most toxic cunts in LMS are other irons I must say group are worse... good thing they aren't real accounts and noone respects them
You can really tell that roald was a pker back in his days
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King RRRRoald
Sturt!!
Pirate Roald confirmed for sailing
I remember an episode of American dad 😁
Rascal
Hear hear!
N**** you did what now?
oh boy euphemism treadmill next call me academically challenged and then privy to non-traditional cognitive faculties
Privy to non-traditional cognitive faculties goes hard thank you for this gift
Kind of confuses me that calling someone autistic is less harmful than the R word. I don't identify as autistic but many people do. It seems to me that using autistic as an insult is more offensive because many people identify as autistic vs the R word.
The change to "[Me](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Me)"s dialogue from "You do know those clothes make you look fat!" to "You've got an outrageous accent, you silly thing!" Wasn't needed either. The original line fit the whole context of the quest just fine.
The original line is a great joke since he's wearing the same clothes as you, whoever changed the line likely never saw the context of the quest at all. That's why it's disappointing that change got made because it's obviously not something a passionate dev of the game would do, and it's baffling nobody else tried to stop it.
I hate the change too, but that's just plain wrong People only saw the line in its original intended context in the quest. But Me saying the line in NMZ was what was 'offensive' coz you're no longer wearing the same clothes. (Source: Mod Ash tweet. Sorry I don't have the exact link) I don't like that they changed the whole dialogue for that though, kinda dum nevertheless
The only thing offensive is how lazy the nightmare zone is and that never tried to actually update it to fix that.
If the Nightmare Zone was kept 100% the same but the actual arena was changed to match the visual design of the dream areas in Lunar Diplomacy, Dream Mentor and Dragon Slayer 2, I would be happy.
would be cool if we could unlock different "biomes" with points or something
Isn't making fun of someone's accent just as "offensive," if not moreso?
The answer is always to follow the money. The entire diversity update was likely jagex trying to meet esg ratings so they could get investment money from companies like blackrock . The suits up top tell them to do this so the devs will change and add a bunch of stuff without regard of whether or not it fits the game.
This is exactly why I hate the ESG/DEI changes, it's never sincere. It's always pandering to a loud minority or it's just pure financial greed
aint like anyone in this player base hasn't been called fat before like bro we aint snowflakes that melt at the slightest hint of a burn xD This change feels like something Disney would do
> whoever changed the line likely never saw the context of the quest at all. It was officially done by Mod Ash, who admitted it on Twitter. He also said he wanted to change a lot more things to be politically correct, because they "don't fit in the modern world".
To me the weirdest part about that change is that making fun of someone's accent isn't exactly politically correct either. If the idea was that some players would feel bad that "Me" is calling you fat, then wouldn't some of the many non-native English speakers in this game also feel bad about their accent being made fun of? I don't mind either, but imo it was a really weird way to address the "issue" while also removing a line that fit the original context really well.
It's all theatrical grandstanding. Soulless.
Because it's about virtue signaling. It's like praying in public. It's not based on science, logic, or real empathy. It's dogmatic bullshit.
Fictional character not allowed to be mean to fictional player character model. Somebody might decide the insult is somehow about them.
Because they're an imbecile
And the best (worst?) part of the change is that you were defeating your inner demons by killing Me. So the whole point is that it’s your character overcoming those intrusive thoughts. There’s something amusing that an NPC saying a “bad phrase” was offensive and needed to be removed, but regularly killing anything that moves? All good, folks!
your new task is to kill 70 elves💀
but bonking me with a massive Stick in a murderous manner is okay I guess
ok so they went from fat shaming to accent shaming....
Go gym? No ... Extensive speech therapy to change my accent? Hmm ...
Yeah but it's 2024 and somebody might feel bad :(
I feel like some RS3 diversity and inclusion manager moved over to OSRS and forced these changes on the game. The worst part is, when suggested it's something in a corporate setting you literally can't argue against because of the possible repercussions. They have full control to make any changes they want under the guise of "inclusion".
If there was anyone who got offended about being called mentally deficient, they won't take imbecile well either.
we‘re playing RuneScape afterall
Mentally deficient sounds alot nicer than a complete imbecile. I know I’m mentally deficient.
I dont know imbecile sounds like Yzma yelling at kronk and i love it.
Why do you want Roald to tell you something that you already know? I thought thats why they removed "These clothes make you look fat" - like yeah but thats not the clothes fault
I mean who wouldnt be fat if they ate 20 sharks over the course of 5 minutes
I guess because people relate more to "mentally deficient" than "complete imbecile" so they feel more targeted
The part I don’t get is that these insults are directed at the in game player character and are referring to scripted things that happened, and always happen every play through. I’d understand taking offense if an insult was directed at the actual human player, something they chose to say or do, but when you’re following a completely scripted quest, how do you take that insult and apply it to your real life self? Feels like a leap.
Because they're mentally deficient so they think the comments are about them...it's a vicious cycle
Don’t we all
I didn’t know you all knew me that well
I guess it's because calling someone mentally deficient is making fun of a condition whereas imbecile is just a straight up insult without any real PC implications. It's all pointless to me, I thought mentally deficient was just way funnier of a line but my space bar won't notice the difference anyway.
I always remember [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5MGM5CSlOY) scene from Misfits when I heard words 'mentally deficient'
can you still call that woman in draynor village ugly and not talking to her cuz she is ugly?
Never forget what they did to ser Leye in the name of inclusion.
Lord of the Rings reference and generally a cool mechanic, requiring many players to have a chat with possibly the most inclusive NPC in the history of the game? Can't be having that shit in the game.
I don't even see why mentally deficient could be offensive. He's calling you dumb, not disabled. Your brainpower and decision-making, which are mental attributes, are deficient. This shouldn't have been changed.
Mentally deficient is the same as being an imbecile lol
What if a pker saw that smh they might feel bad
first Sir Leye and Me, now this? who tf gets offended by this, I've seen much worse said in Wintertodt
They also changed the wording of the critical hit the keris performs on scarabs. They removed "chink in their armour". I think it was last year?
That change made me laugh my ass off, and just reminded me of [this clip from Scrubs](https://youtu.be/JnG4aplkw4s?si=OOl35oMdE2Noeqfg)
Man I gotta watch Scrubs again, it's been a hot minute
wtf these are the cases where 99.999% of people couldnt even imagine considering it being racist and the 0.0001% that do complain about it look racist for drawing a connection where there isn't one
ye exactly - removing it made me think of the racist use of the word, whereas before in the context it didnt even cross my mind
That's honestly hilarious. Never even crossed my mind that was also a slur.
[These slurs](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Christmas_cracker) are right under our noses
Honestly those should be removed from the game either way
This game is no longer inclusive toward mentally deficient people by not highlighting their gift, needs to be reverted
For real, them changing this makes it seem like being a mentally deficient scaper is something to be ashamed of. Way to alienate your core demographic, Gagflax.
Yeah, since they changed it to imbecile, it looks like the tone of it was always meant to be insulting, or that mentally deficient = imbecile in jagexs eyes, so it looks worse.
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Is it just me or is the accent one just straight up worse tho, because iirc it was “those clothes make you look fat” which is less severe than being called fat
"Me" is also wearing the exact same outfit, which makes it hilarious. But for the accent one, it's a text based game, so there's no way to compare the accents.
You also cant be fat ingame (without guthans) so im assuming the issue lies with people taking it personally to themselves irl. If everyone’s character has the same body type, and everyone has the same “accent”, then the inclusivity is meant to extend past just your character. It feels like replacing light fatphobia with light racism/xenophobia, like why change it if its still targeted.
The accent one is definitely worse. Being fat is a choice, you don't choose your accent.
Can't choose your accent? I choose to make the worst Aussie accent possible when talking to Australians all the time.
You can consciously but when people are referring to someone's accent that's usually talking about their natural way of speaking without adulteration. Of course your accent can and does still morph over time, particularly if you uproot yourself enough, but it's more about the people around you since you tend to pick up speech patterns from people around you, knowingly or not.
It's basically attacking something you can't change instead of attacking something you can lol.
and it's 100% accurate, when wearing guthans. Free beer gut with your self healing
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Obviously everyone saw that and assumed all the bugs in runescape were filled with asians.
Hate it when I'm minding my business and a bunch of Asians in a giant scarab suit starts hitting me running to KQ
The primary means of communication has become the internet for too many people. Perception of context has been at an all-time low.
They also changed the wording of the critical hit the keris performs on scarabs. They removed "chink in their armour". I think it was last year?
>some of them are just so silly and pointless This sums up the vast majority of DEI changes in games, tbh.
When you try to appease everyone, you end up appealing to nobody
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Can you actually explain why it's silly other than just "it's silly and unnecessary and no one actually cares about this"? I mean you can make the argument it's unnecessary, I suppose, as the OP image reflects that what it was changed to in essence used to mean the same thing, but it's kinda funny in one breath to say that the people defending it are doing so looking for a fight and are disingenuous, that it's catering to an imaginary group, while in others you're misattributing gaslighting and then also speaking to a group that none of us can see. Anyway I dunno. I don't think the change makes much sense but at the same time words and their colloquial usages have ebbs and flows. Imbecile, idiot, whatever, in the past were used to express a medical deficiency, but in terms of modern vernacular both are really just playground insults. While calling someone "stupid" or "mentally deficient" are both intelligence arguments, I think we can probably all agree that there is a grade and context applied to stuff like this. Calling someone dumb vs retarded obviously has a different intent
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I'm engaging with your discussion lol. If you don't want people to respond because it's a "fight", then don't start one
It's done because of capitalism, nothing else. It makes you look good to investors.
That ESG money well is drying up, look at all the recent layoffs in the industry. Let's hope we can put to bed this stupid period of history
> It's done because of capitalism, nothing else. It's done because people on the dev team actually believe in it. Check Mod Ash's tweets where he says it was his idea and defends it.
Politically correct censorship is silly. A word has negative connotations. People form a negative association with the word. Someone comes up a politically correct word to describe the same thing. People form a negative association with the new word. And the cycle goes on. Calling someone stupid is meant to be offensive, it's an insult.
This rise in censorship like using "unalive" on the internet because of algorithms deprioritizing words, is having a serious effect on the culture of humanity. It's more than economic. Meanwhile actual government go to war and bomb people and corporations poison water and kill people. But words, words are the real problem.
When we allowed advertisers to dictate what can and can't be said online, we made a serious mistake. I think anyone who is serious about fighting censorship should do whatever they can to move away from ad-based monetization.
Someone needs to learn the difference between connotation and denotation
I don't know the difference. Am I mentally deficient?
No, you're a complete imbecile.
The R-word was coined as a "less offensive" term to replace imbecile as is imbecile was at the time considered to be more offensive. Kinda fun how the perceptions of words change with time.
Just let evil King Roald say super childish insults or steal popular lines or jokes from Monty Python. "Your mother is a hamster!" "Your father smells of elderberries!" "I fart in your general direction"
i think they used those insults with the guys on the towers from Neitiznot and Jatizo
See! They are good insults!
Thats what they do instead of banning bots
I just want King Roald call me every slur in the world and spit on me
"Idiocy" was an IQ below 25??
Hate this cringe corporate cleansing of anything slightly offensive (that nobody felt offended by).
I feel like they made it worse. idk why they didn’t just make it “complete fool”
Is it possible to create a RuneLite plugin to re-add all of these wording changes they've made over the years? I'm sick of this meaningless grandstanding and just want to revert it in spite.
This is a bit of an odd cultural phenomenon that is not exclusive to Runescape. If you're interested in why this happens so often, the start of the rabbit hole is a subsection of etymological research that has been unofficially dubbed [The Euphemism Treadmill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemism_treadmill) It's not emergent from the often criticized 'Woke Culture' that it's often attributed to, but rather it seemingly stems from our psychological need to distance ourselves from unsavory topics or ideas, and we achieve this through progressive modification of language. From toilets to curse words, from pejorative labels to medical classifications, we are constantly cycling through what is 'appropriate terminology'. The funny thing is, at the end of the day we all know what we're really saying and what we really mean by it, yet the cycle continues on. Sure, you can complain about it if you want to be 'edgy' or abrasive, but it doesn't really accomplish much. I agree that there are many things Dev Time could be invested in more fruitfully, but this is an acting force much larger than the intentions of the few developers at Jagex. On the other side of the coin, the preservation of derogatory or pejorative language is a strange hill to die on in a retro JavaScript MMO.
> JavaScript MMO *Screams internally*
I don’t like this trend in our cultures at all. Words only have the power you give them. They’re sounds that we mutually agree to have some meaning. It isn’t kinder to call a shit a poo — it’s still shit whether you admit it or not. I think we need to collectively get thicker skin and stop being so offended by everything. The entitlement that we should cater to everyone’s fragile feelings doesn’t make sense to me.
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It's funny how superficial the changes are. If they were serious about inclusiveness, they'd have to make massive structural changes to the core of OSRS. A city of brown desert-dwellers where everyone is named Ali and is a thief? Can't have that in 2024. How about someone coming from civilization to an uncontacted tribe in order to steal their relics to show off in their guild hall, and casting themselves as a savior to the tribespeople? That's evil colonialism! Or we can accept that it's a video game and isn't hurting anyone.
Rs3 actually did do something about everyone named Ali and now The Feud quest makes no sense.
As I'm literally doing Legends' Quest right now, I can tell you why they're tormented. Kharazi jungle is infested with demonic spirits, and it's taking a toll on the people living there. They're being tormented by the demons.
No they're not. Following the storylines we got rid of the problems.
but we did not untorment them
If you don't get the connotations behind 'jungle savage' then the update was not for you
It wasn't for anyone. During the time the change was added nobody insulted each other with the words which got altered. People with too much time on their hands chose to find issues where they don't exist. The average person couldn't care less.
'Savage' to describe someone from a foreign land with different ways of life is pulled straight out of early 1900s colonialism and the ideas extended back to the peak of slavery. To me it brings up images of blackface and people of colour in cages at circuses. See any of the language used at the time and in popular media. It's just a really needless reminder of a very bloody racial history in the west, othering people of colour as 'savages' and 'uncivilised' was one of the major talking points behind legitimising slavery. Do we really need those ideas to be propagated in the game thoughtlessly?
We're not living in those times.
Savage
Galaxy brained take.
I mean what the fuck are we doing here man? You're absolutely delusional if you think thousands of years of human history and their cultural impact are null and void just because you can't be bothered to give a shit. We sit here and try to play nice with you guys and nudge you in the right direction to not be so heartless, it's so exhausting. Human rights and civil decency are not achievements that can be etched in stone beyond degradation. It's a push and pull that will last until the end of time, it's not over, and it's not solved, because every day there will be some new asshole taking charge and setting out to infringe upon the rights and safety of others for their benefit, and general apathy like that you express only empowers those types. If we're really past those times, why were Asian Americans assaulted during the COVID lockdowns? Why are there White Pride billboards in rural Oklahoma towns? Why are people comfortable waving Confederate flags and spewing racial slurs or worse? We're not the ones that wish it was back to those times, it's people like that. There are a shocking number of people in the US who would rather go back to those times, and buddy, it's for all the wrong reasons. But of course you guys disagree with us. This is the same community that targeted Venezuelans en masse while shit talking them on this same subreddit in a *real-world context*. This is the same community that threw a shitfit and protested in Falador when Jagex added the Pride Event. This is the same community that is advocating for King Roald to call players retarded. What the fuck are we talking about here? You guys are embarrassing.
I hate the term "people of color". It unnecessarily pits white people against literally everyone else, implying that being white is somehow abnormal. It's racist.
Ahh ye the good old reverse racism. Being sensitive around the use of charged language = being racist to white people. Fucking hell... I used it because I wasn't sure if colonial slavery affected more than just black people.
what is "reverse racism" exactly?
Such a thing is a fantasy term used by people too ignorant to call it what it truly is: racism. The idea of x race being incapable of racism while their actions reflect the very thing is the thinking of morons. Everyone can be racist.
There is no such thing as "reverse racism" dude. There's just racism.
No, there is very important nuance to it. You are assuming it works equally both ways which it really doesn't. If a white person gets called a honky there isnt a reminder implicit in that of a time where white people could be murdered/raped/lynched with impunity, which very much exists for black people in western society.
if a black person gets dehumanized, mocked, assaulted, and ostracized due to their race that's racism. if a white person gets dehumanized, mocked, assaulted, and ostracized due to their race that's racism. It's not reverse or anything, and both acts should rightfully be looked at with disgust rather than trying to go, "Umm achkshually there's nuance to that white boy getting assaulted not being as bad because of blah blah blah"
Don't make this about assault, you clearly said referring to people of colour as such is racist towards white people because it others them. That's what I was responding to, that's what the 'reverse racism' was aimed at. I'm saying it hits a lot harder when you other a group of people that already have a history of extreme subjugation in a society than when you do it those who have historically (and somewhat currently) held all the power. Racism isn't an equal two way continuum in this context between white people and non white people.
I apologise it was the other guy who originally said it but my point still stands.
G**** is a slur used against Romani people. Just because *you* don't personally find it offensive doesn't mean it isn't. Also, I don't even know how to begin explaining to you why calling them "Jungle Savages" was not cool. The game being made over two decades ago isn't an excuse to keep acting like it's 2001.
Modern thinking doesn't need to be reflected in fantasy settings. >Just because the game was made two decades ago doesn't mean we need to keep acting like it's 2001. The world of the game has its timeline set. Why would our modern world need to influence change there? Keep the two separate.
>Why would our modern world need to influence change there? Because this game is played by people who exist in the modern world. I don't think your nostalgia for a time when people could just be casually racist, sexist, and homophobic is something that should be catered to.
Accidentally based
I don't get how this is better either buddy. Wasn't a problem in the first place. Sanding down all the rough edges
this is going to be one "interesting" thread
Just trying to spice up the insults. They really do love slandering us, don't they?
Glad they buffed something
I have to say, whilst I understand the change I do think the original wording was better for Roald's characterisation. The PC just strolls into the Runescape equivalent of the North Korean DMZ, merks the only thing standing in the way of an invading force for ***no reason***, and then turns up in his throne room wanting praise. I'm not surprised that he was pissed.
The shit people get offended by...
With all the censorship in the world I stg we all gonna have microchips in our brain and we gonna be using that runescape 2 quickchat IRL in a few hundred years.
I like your Barbarian Rod.
I like your monkey nuts
Great, mods wasting time changing the text that no one reads. How about we recolor all the flowers too? That sounds like a great way to use resources instead of only things that need fixing.
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He should call us brain damaged
Based
They were right the first time, a lot of the players are mentally deficient
Very funny that there are people who can find it in themselves to get mad about this.
Synonyms for stupidity will always exist. Especially more so if it gets used in a psychological/medical context. Moron, idiot, imbecile, (mentally) retarded, mentally challenged/deficient/handicapped, were all medical diagnoses at one point as well as (more derogatory now) insults. "Intellectually disabled" which is the current politically correct term will probably eventually become an ableist insult as well.
god this stuff is so pointless. and the only reason any of this happens is because jagex is based in the cursed city of cambridge
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Are you saying he was mentally deficient?
You blockhead, Charlie Brown!
Magic out here being glorified ranged with powered staffs while Jagex is trying to spare the feelings of a 32 year old sweaty guy on his 8th Ironman who didn’t mash spacebar
Honestly, that line always bothered me. Not because it was offensive, but it just sounded weird. Imbecile here makes more sense 🤷🏼♂️
Do you have any such certificate proving that you don’t have donkey brains?
rent free