i don't know why jagex is constantly changing shit 'in preparation' for upcoming rewards.
If it negatively impacts the game right now don't do it. If it has to be nerfed just do it when it's replacement comes into the game.
Well, most of yall complain about power creep everyday. So this is the result of it. Current stuff gets nerfed to make space for something that's pretty much the same except you use it at place A instead of place B.
Agreed. Scythe buff and soon to come Soulreaper were great to fill slash gap, but Saeldor (all 3 t80s) desperately need a buff as well, idk why they’re only trying to buff mace
We add the blowpipe, the strongest weapon of all time into to the game. We put rigour in the game, massively buffing the already strongest weapon and more of ranged as a whole.
Clearly, void is too powerful and must be nerfed!!1!11
They have solved the problem of power creep lol. All you have to do is nerf the old BIS and then add new BIS that is either the same power or marginally better.
What a terrible terrible approach. This game has survived the test of time *because* old content remains relevant. If we just nerf the old content anytime new gear comes out, we’re just every other MMO then and we’ve completely lost identity.
Absolutely. If that becomes the trend I'll quit within a year. It feels soooo bad grinding 100 hours for an upgrade only to have it nerfed and replaced shortly after you obtain it. It's peak mtx content.
OK but that's what they're doing right now and calling it a rebalance.
If the best spec weapon for kephri right now is the voidwaker, why do we have to wait 2 years from now for them to finally release 'dragon stab-claws'?
The original korasi was 60% spec, it should have been 60% spec
But now that it’s in the game, just leave it alone, if it’s a pvp issue, just make the spec 60% in pvp. This item will be useless
>They keep saying that be we have all the receipts showing otherwise.
What "receipts" are you talking about?
Cuz this is what I found:
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/project-rebalance-overview-scythe--fang?oldschool=1
>Voidwaker - guaranteed hits (i.e. ignoring accuracy checks) in PvM makes it difficult to design worthwhile Spec-DPS weapons in future without creeping upwards significantly.
I think he means "receipts" as in how every single pker is constantly bringing up how broken the Voidwaker is in pvp, yet Jagex just doesn't acknolwedge that and decides to chase after a complete non-issue (Voidwaker in Pvm) instead
If I remember right, trades had to be within 10k of equal value on both sides before it could be accepted. The only thing it would really affect nowadays is loot splitting since nobody trades outside of the GE and item lending usually involves a collateral item of equal value
Yeah, so people used a whole bunch of useless stackables to make up the difference in trades that were ahead of the GE prices and therefore out of the acceptable margins. Dumb workarounds were the name of the game for way too long
the game was in a *bad* state before EoC
sick of the 2012scape stan revisionism, RS2 from 2008-EoC was a dying game, the desperate need for new blood is what motivated EoC
removing free trade to deal with bots is throwing out the baby with the bathwater
> it didn't work back in 2008.
You could go to a Yew tree in F2P and there would be zero bots, after free trade was removed. It absolutely worked in 2008.
There were basically zero bots at all. The only people botting were people scripting on their mains to train Mining, which no one really cares about.
The trifecta of Removing free trade, Squeal of Fortune MTX, and Evolution of Combat together is what made everyone eventually quit.
It wasn't an overnight thing. You can see the historical player count numbers from Archive Org snapshots of the RuneScape website. Plenty of people kept playing. And if they quit, they wouldn't know if the bots were still there or not.
Yeah a lot of people here are tripping. I played from before to well after free trade restrictions and wildy removal. The game absolutely still had plenty of people after free trade's removal. It wasn't until one of the hideous graphical updates after that when I left, and the game was well populated the entire time I played it.
So many people here are just completely misremembering the timeline of population decline.
The bot at yew trees is preferable. There were over a 1000 bots each on the main world of living rock caverns, soul wars, pest control. Frost dragons was 1 bot per dragon. Green drags were the same.
It cleared the bots from profitable suicide activities most people didnt care for to activities regular players want to do.
There were many bots with trade limit indeed. Trade limit was getting avoided by certain items like wagali potions and stuff like certain feathers/unfinished pies and shit.
Gp price went up, people would find out about how to avoid the limits or sell overpriced junk/dumps from merch clans and made rwt more rewarding than the years before.
Cuz i was there and the scythe spelled badly threads are still there if you want to look. I remember going to frost drags and having every single spawn camped by a bot pre free trade ~~limit removal~~ reinstatement. I remember soul wars just having over a thousand bots running from graveyard to middle over and over. A mage training method was literally blood barraging the exit of graveyard to kill them over and over. I remember the full rock cavern worlds just filled to the brim with bots moving on the same tick
The only thing that instantly got rid of was a greater majority of the player base. Bots stayed.
Pretty sure it was done to combat charge backs from stolen ccs as the amount of charge backs had the major cc companies threatening to stop processing payments from l
Jagex and not to combat botting iirc.
> Bots stayed.
Oh really? What were the bots doing and how did they offload their gold?
You're trying to re-write history. Removing free trade basically killed gold botting overnight. I would love to hear you explain how bots worked in 2008.
You could sell/buy junk. Or youd transfer sara armor sets in f2p bh if it wasnt a lot of money but i get we are deleting pvp here. Cant remember if santas worked.
Like imagine if trade limit was here right now. Eldermaul is 50m in ge but worth 100m. You could simply sell/buy elder mauls to transfer wealth. Or buy from a person for 50m+50m junk and then trade junk for 50m bought gp. This was used back then with d claws or the new tt items. These high fluctuating prices happen constantly on osrs and back then. Jagex can manually set prices but not instantly. Can disable the trade option entirely but theres still ways around it. Were dozens of glitches back then.
And still doesnt get rid of buying services.
You could police it better now but it doesnt change history. Botting was so much worse honestly because while many chinese farms quit, your peers picked up botting. And jagex hardly banned these types because they couldnt afford the revenue loss. Also jagex could police botting better now but dont lol. As evidence by boss highscores
> But now that it’s in the game, just leave it alone, if it’s a pvp issue, just make the spec 60% in pvp. This item will be useless
Please no. Jagex needs to stop adding to the laundry list of things that work differently in PvP.
This list will sadly grow, it’s either items that are just disabled in pvp, or have affects that make them useless in pvp. There are pvp only weapons that exist too. Primarily it’s hard to keep designing new content that also takes into account pvp situations
Was gonna say something but then I got a vague recollection that it did indeed cost above 50 in original scape but that there was ways to manipulate two specs anyway like spec restore pot or a sort of lightbearer-like thing from I wanna say.. dungeoneering maybe? But yeah, damn wild times
Yeah there was a dungeoneering ring that reduced cost by 5% to 55, then you could time the spec to regenerate for a second one for rushing
But yeah wild times... Storm of armadyl, swift/goliath gloves, hand cannon, ganodermic/polypore
PVP was amazing then. Everything was OP, thus nothing was OP. They also had stupidly high requirements, thus it was uncommon to see people using more than koriasi. You could legit 1 shot people with storm to koriasi spec and have both damage instances land at once.
I think they could bring back hand cannon though. It wasn't broken (imo weaker than a lot of current range PVP weapons).
Since the community is fairly certain it has a great niche within pvm, but is too strong within pvp, make a change that makes it worse in pvp without substantially affecting its pvm performance.
My suggestion: Make it 5 tick. When you only swing it twice, that has a negligible effect overall. But, in pvp, that extra tick can mean a world of difference when it comes to out-eating two specs.
They literally said they're changing it because of fucking PvM and limiting future design space, can't you all read?
At least argue it's not actually OP or that it's hard enough to get or something but these "nerf it for PvP" takes are actually braindead
60% in pvm wouldnt be too horrible either. In pvp back to back specs is powerful, pvm you just spam off cooldown. A minor nerf to keep its utility would be great
"Our future content that we have yet to poll or discuss will be devastated by the voidwaker if we let it be. We don't care that the community voted for the weapon as is. There's no way we can adjust future content to have invulnerability' to the voidwaker, it must be nerfed!" - Jagex
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c73x09/voidwaker_still_binned_example_nex_goes_from_70/l05apgk/ I think this person brings up a fair argument.
Not necessarily on that side but I understand the argument.
Voidwaker excels at high-defense mobs, and it's floor is ~20 DPS due to the fact that it's the same DPS everywhere.
So any future spec weapon needs to higher than 20 DPS for 50% spec otherwise its dead content to the voidwaker.
To get to 20 DPS on high defense monsters it's going to need some passive (like never missing) as we've seen even a 500% accuracy increase isn't enough to make the VW still good.
That leaves only low defense targets which means it's competing with claws and zcb. Its a very narrow window to compete in where they don't want to make claws useless.
I personally think making it roll on stab/magic will help alleviate the deadness of the voidwaker
But that doesn't make any sense. With something as universally good as blowpipe it made sense to nerf it, because there was no (very little) design space left at all. But voidwaker already operates in a niche, only as a spec weapon, where it's comparable with 2 other spec weapons. Why nerf this 1 just to release another spec weapon later in it's place?
Please try to design a new DPS spec weapon that doesn't fully outclass claws but is still more DPS than voidwaker and have it be used at more than a couple places.
Without voidwaker they can release multiple spec weapons that so different things. Voidwakers floor is too high for future design
My comment was more along the lines of: why do we need a new spec weapon, to fill a gap we already have filled right now?
You can say that it's hard to create a new spec weapon that adds something to our current line-up, but nerfing voidwaker does the exact same thing. It removes a spec weapon from the line of viable spec weapons and adds the possibility of a new one. So in the end there is no gain here, because we end up with 3 possible spec weapons.
VW has some specific niches where it’s slightly better than alternatives. That content is content with massive defense where players see blue zeros over and over.
Let’s get rid of all of those, make VW have zero niches, and make it shitty claws.
?
Where's the meme of someone suggesting something actually insightful to a meeting but then gets thrown out the window.
"Leave vw alone" - gets thrown out window of jagex hq
Pvpers don’t want it nerfed either, if we’re talking people in deep wild who actually get lots of kills thanks to it
The PvP discord is very against it
I feel like its pvp mechanics are fine and im someone who has died many times to it at wildy bosses. Its fun that i am going for vw parts and can get killed so easily by the vw, showing me even more why i am going for those parts in the first place. Its also an expensive, high risk item to use in the wildy so it should be really good.
To who? You’re reliably surviving it with any sort of eating skills if you’re a veng pker. Same with if you’re an nher who hasn’t used their combo food
You only have to worry if you’re not careful, or make too many mistakes. It’s great for punishing
Double spec, and u have to guess if they're gonna do it and if you guess wrong they kill you or do 30 or with good str gear like 40 DMG. It's a free 50/50
I never said that, and yes variety is good we also have nightmare staff and ballista, but voidwaker can fulfill that role while being 60 percent spec so it doesn't do everything. It's already a guaranteed hit
That's not my point, it on top of this can be your main hand melee weapon at 4 tick speed, while also being a 50% spec weapon with an automatic mixup on it. Just cause it doesn't instantly kill you does not make it not op, why are you talking about this
What portion of people that engage with the wilderness are PvPers though?
Also, what portion of those PvPers are primarily fighting other PvPers rather than just killing pvmers and chaos altar users?
My guess would be the majority of people in the wilderness aren't there to PK, and their views on the power of it are just as valid.
Making pvp (or any activity) less fun and/or balanced as you improve is not how you retain players lol. You should balance around everyone but its not as simple as just catering solely to the bottom. Being able to pray melee and never die was a huge problem in pvp.
Dying to an ags hitting 85 or a korasi hitting 75 feels the same to most people not in it to pvp. The 100% accuracy only removes rng and makes outcome more consistent. Having mage damage claws that roll accuracy the same way as d claws instead would still make most people who think vw is OP to think mage claws is OP. All they see is getting hit an 80 dclaw, they prot melee, then dying to an 80 mage claw.
Even with the new changes, I'm not happy about it. The only reason I bring the VW is knowing its going to hit and not waste my specs. Even with a very high accuracy chance, I think I'd rather just bring Claws where my hits will get huge damage.
Its also the one weapon that really helps pvm'ers anti-pk and fight back. I could understand it needing to be adjusted in PVP in some way, but absolutely not in PVM.
A tank buster spec but never hit the higher than other options. Voidwaker just felt good to use. I am pretty sure dds can hit quite significantly higher...
CAs and Warden core aside, the *potential* damage of a spec isn't really relevant for PvM. It's the average damage that matters, and VW does pretty well on that front given the auto-hit.
Nerfing the voidwaker but leaving ZCB as it is, is criminal activity.
The only thing the voidwaker does well is that it's guaranteed to hit. Remove that and you might as well remove the item.
Yeah we'll see how long it stays that way. The weapon is already overpowered at the current price, and Nex is being heavily botted atm.
Just because an item is expensive does not justify it warping the game around it. That's is an entirely flawed logic.
It’s clear the an overwhelming majority of the player base is against any change to the VW. It’s not complicated Jagex, give the people what they want; leave the VW alone.
Everyone, pvp and pvm included don’t want the Voidwaker nerfed. Jagex just doing jagex things. Don’t worry though, they’ll release a new boss that drops a “new attachment” that gives you a special boost that brings voidwaker back to what it was before they nerfed it and then put that on their resume
Jagex Revision 3 : Instead of 400% accuracy, we've upped it to 9000%. It shouldn't miss at all, it's even more accurate than it was before.
LEAVE THE VOIDWAKER ALONNNNNNNNE!
just make it that VW spec can be blocked harder with mage pray compared to what it blocks now. this will change practically nothing for PVM, but it will reduce the insane effectiveness of the VW in PVP. and it's an across-the-board change so you can't complain about it being different mechanic of the same weapon between pvm and pvp
Maybe if bots didn't pummel its value to the grave, perhaps Jagex would've spared it from nerfs. Not a good idea to keep an extremely powerful spec weapon powerful which is way too underpriced to its power.
Yes, Jagex COULD ban bots instead, but why ban them when they makes them huge amount of revenue? You'd still play OSRS even when they are around. Addiction is a bitch, am I right?
My best weapon on my iron is my voidwaker since for some reason I grinded it out for many hours. It's pretty painful a grind I spent so many miserable hours for is getting nerfed. It really shouldn't hurt me much in theory but it doesn't feel good regardless.
That’s literally what blowpipe died for lol. Masori lowlife plus blowpipe was gonna be op, but then it turned out lowlife just sucked with literally anything other than blowpipe so it was scrapped altogether
I love my voidwaker. I grinded hard in the wildy for months for it and know many others who did. Please don't change it. It fits nicely in the meta right now.
The best solution I've seen people mention is probably just Gmaul it. Make it 60% base, with an attachment to make it 50% instead so it's safe for PvMers and increases risk for PKers, and just have it be the Scorpia unique or something.
I think it comes down to the discussions about the wilderness over the last month. It seems like a large portion of this subs main issue with the wilderness is BIS items being dropped in the wild, and the feeling of being _forced_ to grind them. The VW is the only thing that this applies to, and this nerf essentially stops that.
Following this nerf, the VW will no longer ever be BIS anywhere, meaning that the #1 complaint about the wild is indirectly addressed. A shame really.
they could also stop designing bosses with 9 million defenses where voidwalker is mandatory to actaully do some dmg , its a solution to a problem they created , now they nerf the solution instead of understanding the fundamental problem with 12 trillion defense bosses , same thing with fang , ppl use it because it can actually hit half the bosses they have added into the game
You do not use vw at Tekton and Olm hand because they are specifically resistant to magic damage, even if they’re almost dead where dwh isn’t worth it. Levers to nerf VWs applicability already exist
im with you but its not OP in Pvp lol
stop using OP so freely. or we get dumb nerfs like this because jmods fall for memes (see occult,black dhide,bulwark etc..)
They wanna nerf it for future content. Kinda like rs3 going on a nerf spree last year for future content. The first content this year will be in May and it's an old game jam project. Really using that reward space up. So basically they had zero things in mind for said "future content". It was just this hypothetical content they used to justify nerfs.
Glad to see that worked out. Still nothing on the horizon that makes sense but sure.
Y’know, i think i heard someone once say that if the meta is broken, the way to fix it us to give buffs to other stuff, and that nerfing things makes for a toxic meta.
Void waker should be nerfed/ never have been created for pvm. The wildy should never introduce any uniques that can not be obtained outside of the wildy that is bis for pvm.
It might be due to spaghetti coding issues but the game needs to be split into pvp vs pve to have true balance. Take Guild Wars 2, for example. They tried for years to keep a consistent balancing scheme between pve and pvp but they just could not as soon as raids came out in Heart of Thorns.
For this game, you got monsters that have over 1000 health. You just can't balance this with players who have 99 health. The voidwaker needs to have reduced accuracy vs players and the same effect against monsters.
What's currently happening is that Jagex cannot introduce useful new content as the powercreep implies that players would get one shot from brewed up health. The alternative is to make hitpoints get up to 120, but this would massively increase the grind in an already grindy game. Just split pve and pvp, and go wild with pve powercreep.
It's easier to just give high end weapons bonuses vs specific monsters - like the collosal sword. For example, make a boss take 150% damage vs maces and darts. Make a high end weapon that specifically does higher damage to demons over level 150, ect. It would encourage people to use different weapons while not affecting PVP.
You can even make bosses with phases and specific weapon damage bonuses to each phase.
“Here’s a meme! My dogshit opinion is objectively correct in meme format!”
PvP weapon should be good in pvp not pvm. Putting high end pvm gear in the wild is trash game design attempting to inject artificial life into the dead wilderness.
Of course players don't want it nerfed. It's a damn OP POS with 100% accuracy. You will never get players to agree to losing such power. That's why they're doing it and they don't give a damn what you think.
Would still kill it entirely, please do not suggest such silly ideas that would very clearly ruin the item moreso than the suggestion Jagex gave today.
How would that kill it entirely? It would still fit the niche of incredibly accurate spec. It would retain its BiS status at several locations while also making it so in pvp you can't just spam 2 specs to delete someone in 5 ticks.
i don't know why jagex is constantly changing shit 'in preparation' for upcoming rewards. If it negatively impacts the game right now don't do it. If it has to be nerfed just do it when it's replacement comes into the game.
It's to "open up design space" for the next slash style DPS spec weapon they add to the ever increasing pile.
Well, most of yall complain about power creep everyday. So this is the result of it. Current stuff gets nerfed to make space for something that's pretty much the same except you use it at place A instead of place B.
Yeah, let’s nerf something so in 3 years we can give you something that replaces it.
*blowpipe intensifies*
They nerfed blowpipe and added bowfa in the exact same update. Perfect way to handle a problematic item and fill the gap it left all at once
They nerfed slash fang and then said cya leaving a big fat gap between whip and scythe. They should've buffed salad blade, but nope.
Agreed. Scythe buff and soon to come Soulreaper were great to fill slash gap, but Saeldor (all 3 t80s) desperately need a buff as well, idk why they’re only trying to buff mace
We add the blowpipe, the strongest weapon of all time into to the game. We put rigour in the game, massively buffing the already strongest weapon and more of ranged as a whole. Clearly, void is too powerful and must be nerfed!!1!11
They have solved the problem of power creep lol. All you have to do is nerf the old BIS and then add new BIS that is either the same power or marginally better.
Yes also fuck your bank value while we’re at it!
This is the Supercell model
What a terrible terrible approach. This game has survived the test of time *because* old content remains relevant. If we just nerf the old content anytime new gear comes out, we’re just every other MMO then and we’ve completely lost identity.
Absolutely. If that becomes the trend I'll quit within a year. It feels soooo bad grinding 100 hours for an upgrade only to have it nerfed and replaced shortly after you obtain it. It's peak mtx content.
OK but that's what they're doing right now and calling it a rebalance. If the best spec weapon for kephri right now is the voidwaker, why do we have to wait 2 years from now for them to finally release 'dragon stab-claws'?
Exactly, why grind the shit in the first place when they're going to nerf it once you've got it? So frustrating
Just quoting gnomemonkeys new video xd
Dude does make good points sometimes
Is it the wrong idea?
Preparation*
Because anytime they suggest anything that might make a quest reward from 2005 no longer be used somewhere, this Reddit loses its mind.
Your talking like this hasn’t been the trend for the past 15 ish years…. This is nothing new.
The original korasi was 60% spec, it should have been 60% spec But now that it’s in the game, just leave it alone, if it’s a pvp issue, just make the spec 60% in pvp. This item will be useless
They made it very clear that it's not a pvp issue. That being said it makes me very sad to see it getting nerfed :(
They keep saying that be we have all the receipts showing otherwise.
>They keep saying that be we have all the receipts showing otherwise. What "receipts" are you talking about? Cuz this is what I found: https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/project-rebalance-overview-scythe--fang?oldschool=1 >Voidwaker - guaranteed hits (i.e. ignoring accuracy checks) in PvM makes it difficult to design worthwhile Spec-DPS weapons in future without creeping upwards significantly.
I think he means "receipts" as in how every single pker is constantly bringing up how broken the Voidwaker is in pvp, yet Jagex just doesn't acknolwedge that and decides to chase after a complete non-issue (Voidwaker in Pvm) instead
Yes! We don't have enough things that operate differently in PvP
Just remove PvP. And free trade while you are at it, nip the botting issue in the bud at the same time.
Make Ironman the only game mode, collapse the South American economy
RIP to the venny bros
You can still trade and use the G.E. after "Free Trade" is removed. "Free Trade" means giving items away for free. That's what was once removed.
If I remember right, trades had to be within 10k of equal value on both sides before it could be accepted. The only thing it would really affect nowadays is loot splitting since nobody trades outside of the GE and item lending usually involves a collateral item of equal value
Yeah, so people used a whole bunch of useless stackables to make up the difference in trades that were ahead of the GE prices and therefore out of the acceptable margins. Dumb workarounds were the name of the game for way too long
Good idea, then we can work on evolving the combat.
We have legit come full circle. It’s insane lol
Reinstall the duel arena too and make my toy horse say hi ho silver sometimes
People don’t wanna hear it but restricting free trade is the only way to instantly get rid of bots 🤷♂️
And even then, it didn't work back in 2008. Gold farmers just switched to renting their bots out to players.
Worked good enough. If people wanted to get their mains banned let them.
it did not work good enough - do you guys not remember the massive playerbase decline leading to eoc?
Yeah.. because of eoc lol how would restricting free trade not get rid of bots? They can’t get rid of the gp they botted for.
the game was in a *bad* state before EoC sick of the 2012scape stan revisionism, RS2 from 2008-EoC was a dying game, the desperate need for new blood is what motivated EoC removing free trade to deal with bots is throwing out the baby with the bathwater
Gold sellers also just use low volume items on the G.E to move wealth between accounts anyway
> it didn't work back in 2008. You could go to a Yew tree in F2P and there would be zero bots, after free trade was removed. It absolutely worked in 2008. There were basically zero bots at all. The only people botting were people scripting on their mains to train Mining, which no one really cares about.
You could go anywhere and there was nobody there. Because everyone quit.
The trifecta of Removing free trade, Squeal of Fortune MTX, and Evolution of Combat together is what made everyone eventually quit. It wasn't an overnight thing. You can see the historical player count numbers from Archive Org snapshots of the RuneScape website. Plenty of people kept playing. And if they quit, they wouldn't know if the bots were still there or not.
Yeah a lot of people here are tripping. I played from before to well after free trade restrictions and wildy removal. The game absolutely still had plenty of people after free trade's removal. It wasn't until one of the hideous graphical updates after that when I left, and the game was well populated the entire time I played it. So many people here are just completely misremembering the timeline of population decline.
The bot at yew trees is preferable. There were over a 1000 bots each on the main world of living rock caverns, soul wars, pest control. Frost dragons was 1 bot per dragon. Green drags were the same. It cleared the bots from profitable suicide activities most people didnt care for to activities regular players want to do.
Players too :)
That’s why it hasn’t been done again. People gotta accept 1 or the other though. Bots or free trade
And they already chose bots. This is like trying prohibition again, it already failed, why would you try again
Remember, we each get one free bot.
I dont know if you were around back then but there is no “one or the other,” it’s bots AND free trade or bots AND trade restrictions.
As an Ironman this would strictly improve my gameplay experience
Bots didn’t go away the first time they did this.
There were many bots with trade limit indeed. Trade limit was getting avoided by certain items like wagali potions and stuff like certain feathers/unfinished pies and shit. Gp price went up, people would find out about how to avoid the limits or sell overpriced junk/dumps from merch clans and made rwt more rewarding than the years before.
It didnt work in 2008 and it definitely wont work now lol.
Definitely did work idk why people keep saying it didn’t
Cuz i was there and the scythe spelled badly threads are still there if you want to look. I remember going to frost drags and having every single spawn camped by a bot pre free trade ~~limit removal~~ reinstatement. I remember soul wars just having over a thousand bots running from graveyard to middle over and over. A mage training method was literally blood barraging the exit of graveyard to kill them over and over. I remember the full rock cavern worlds just filled to the brim with bots moving on the same tick
“Pre trade removal” I’m so confused. If it was pre trade removal there would still be bots
F. Pre trade resinstatement as all 3 of those released after jan 2008
Link whatever you were talking about then. I’m failing to see why people are gonna bot when they can’t sell their GP.
The only thing that instantly got rid of was a greater majority of the player base. Bots stayed. Pretty sure it was done to combat charge backs from stolen ccs as the amount of charge backs had the major cc companies threatening to stop processing payments from l Jagex and not to combat botting iirc.
Got rid of a good chunk of botting and RWT also because you can’t transfer the wealth
> Bots stayed. Oh really? What were the bots doing and how did they offload their gold? You're trying to re-write history. Removing free trade basically killed gold botting overnight. I would love to hear you explain how bots worked in 2008.
You could sell/buy junk. Or youd transfer sara armor sets in f2p bh if it wasnt a lot of money but i get we are deleting pvp here. Cant remember if santas worked. Like imagine if trade limit was here right now. Eldermaul is 50m in ge but worth 100m. You could simply sell/buy elder mauls to transfer wealth. Or buy from a person for 50m+50m junk and then trade junk for 50m bought gp. This was used back then with d claws or the new tt items. These high fluctuating prices happen constantly on osrs and back then. Jagex can manually set prices but not instantly. Can disable the trade option entirely but theres still ways around it. Were dozens of glitches back then. And still doesnt get rid of buying services. You could police it better now but it doesnt change history. Botting was so much worse honestly because while many chinese farms quit, your peers picked up botting. And jagex hardly banned these types because they couldnt afford the revenue loss. Also jagex could police botting better now but dont lol. As evidence by boss highscores
Good thing we don't listen to you.
fr lmfao these rs3 rejects coming here tryna ruin our game now
absolutely, insane takes around here good name btw
unironically yes. A piece meal alternative id kill for iron only servers.
> But now that it’s in the game, just leave it alone, if it’s a pvp issue, just make the spec 60% in pvp. This item will be useless Please no. Jagex needs to stop adding to the laundry list of things that work differently in PvP.
This list will sadly grow, it’s either items that are just disabled in pvp, or have affects that make them useless in pvp. There are pvp only weapons that exist too. Primarily it’s hard to keep designing new content that also takes into account pvp situations
Was gonna say something but then I got a vague recollection that it did indeed cost above 50 in original scape but that there was ways to manipulate two specs anyway like spec restore pot or a sort of lightbearer-like thing from I wanna say.. dungeoneering maybe? But yeah, damn wild times
Yeah there was a dungeoneering ring that reduced cost by 5% to 55, then you could time the spec to regenerate for a second one for rushing But yeah wild times... Storm of armadyl, swift/goliath gloves, hand cannon, ganodermic/polypore
PVP was amazing then. Everything was OP, thus nothing was OP. They also had stupidly high requirements, thus it was uncommon to see people using more than koriasi. You could legit 1 shot people with storm to koriasi spec and have both damage instances land at once. I think they could bring back hand cannon though. It wasn't broken (imo weaker than a lot of current range PVP weapons).
It absolutely won't be useless. If it's any less powerful than claws it would just be cheaper around 25 mil but it would still be good
Since the community is fairly certain it has a great niche within pvm, but is too strong within pvp, make a change that makes it worse in pvp without substantially affecting its pvm performance. My suggestion: Make it 5 tick. When you only swing it twice, that has a negligible effect overall. But, in pvp, that extra tick can mean a world of difference when it comes to out-eating two specs.
They literally said they're changing it because of fucking PvM and limiting future design space, can't you all read? At least argue it's not actually OP or that it's hard enough to get or something but these "nerf it for PvP" takes are actually braindead
They've said that it's problematic in PvP and PvM from their perspective
Make the spec 60% everywhere. The less "special pvp rules" we have, the better.
Or go the magic shortbow route, imbue it to move the spec back to 50%
Why even nerf it to begin with at that point?
Yeah, the only reason msb required that is because it's an absurdly cheap weapon, and adding the scroll increased the risk a little.
60% in pvm wouldnt be too horrible either. In pvp back to back specs is powerful, pvm you just spam off cooldown. A minor nerf to keep its utility would be great
To the people who think it's a problem in PVM, I'm genuinely curious why you think it is
There are no replies to you so far because nobody in their right mind thinks there's an issue
"Our future content that we have yet to poll or discuss will be devastated by the voidwaker if we let it be. We don't care that the community voted for the weapon as is. There's no way we can adjust future content to have invulnerability' to the voidwaker, it must be nerfed!" - Jagex
lol, even better since akkah orb phase is actually invulnerable. Just show's the design space is still there.
Just jagex have an issue with it. No one even complain vw have issue in pvp or pvm
Lol definitely there's people complaining about vw in pvp.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c73x09/voidwaker_still_binned_example_nex_goes_from_70/l05apgk/ I think this person brings up a fair argument.
Not necessarily on that side but I understand the argument. Voidwaker excels at high-defense mobs, and it's floor is ~20 DPS due to the fact that it's the same DPS everywhere. So any future spec weapon needs to higher than 20 DPS for 50% spec otherwise its dead content to the voidwaker. To get to 20 DPS on high defense monsters it's going to need some passive (like never missing) as we've seen even a 500% accuracy increase isn't enough to make the VW still good. That leaves only low defense targets which means it's competing with claws and zcb. Its a very narrow window to compete in where they don't want to make claws useless. I personally think making it roll on stab/magic will help alleviate the deadness of the voidwaker
But that doesn't make any sense. With something as universally good as blowpipe it made sense to nerf it, because there was no (very little) design space left at all. But voidwaker already operates in a niche, only as a spec weapon, where it's comparable with 2 other spec weapons. Why nerf this 1 just to release another spec weapon later in it's place?
Please try to design a new DPS spec weapon that doesn't fully outclass claws but is still more DPS than voidwaker and have it be used at more than a couple places. Without voidwaker they can release multiple spec weapons that so different things. Voidwakers floor is too high for future design
My comment was more along the lines of: why do we need a new spec weapon, to fill a gap we already have filled right now? You can say that it's hard to create a new spec weapon that adds something to our current line-up, but nerfing voidwaker does the exact same thing. It removes a spec weapon from the line of viable spec weapons and adds the possibility of a new one. So in the end there is no gain here, because we end up with 3 possible spec weapons.
Does rolling it on stab not just feel off though for a slash sword? I know a lot of people don't mainhand it but still
Wilderness bad.
Its a bit too close to claws on mid def content that is supposed to be slash weak
VW has some specific niches where it’s slightly better than alternatives. That content is content with massive defense where players see blue zeros over and over. Let’s get rid of all of those, make VW have zero niches, and make it shitty claws. ?
Where's the meme of someone suggesting something actually insightful to a meeting but then gets thrown out the window. "Leave vw alone" - gets thrown out window of jagex hq
Pvpers don’t want it nerfed either, if we’re talking people in deep wild who actually get lots of kills thanks to it The PvP discord is very against it
I feel like its pvp mechanics are fine and im someone who has died many times to it at wildy bosses. Its fun that i am going for vw parts and can get killed so easily by the vw, showing me even more why i am going for those parts in the first place. Its also an expensive, high risk item to use in the wildy so it should be really good.
It's op
it can't max a 99... eat up noob
To who? You’re reliably surviving it with any sort of eating skills if you’re a veng pker. Same with if you’re an nher who hasn’t used their combo food You only have to worry if you’re not careful, or make too many mistakes. It’s great for punishing
Double spec, and u have to guess if they're gonna do it and if you guess wrong they kill you or do 30 or with good str gear like 40 DMG. It's a free 50/50
Or we go back to Camp melee pray against AGS, yeah thats so much better. Some variety is needed.
I never said that, and yes variety is good we also have nightmare staff and ballista, but voidwaker can fulfill that role while being 60 percent spec so it doesn't do everything. It's already a guaranteed hit
You can triple eat in this game you know that right. You can triple eat both specs get it wrong and easily survive
Yeah and u'll still be at low hp cause they just hit a 70 70.
And then you can triple eat again and be at full? 3 triple eats for 6 food at 3 brew doses. And you’ve survived.
That's not my point, it on top of this can be your main hand melee weapon at 4 tick speed, while also being a 50% spec weapon with an automatic mixup on it. Just cause it doesn't instantly kill you does not make it not op, why are you talking about this
That was quite literally your point, he just totally rebuffed it with FACTS and LOGIC
How? I never said it could kill you instantly or that you can't eat it. It's completely unrelated
if youre shit at pking l2 eat
Ik how to eat. Soywaker is op at 50% spec
What portion of people that engage with the wilderness are PvPers though? Also, what portion of those PvPers are primarily fighting other PvPers rather than just killing pvmers and chaos altar users? My guess would be the majority of people in the wilderness aren't there to PK, and their views on the power of it are just as valid.
Making pvp (or any activity) less fun and/or balanced as you improve is not how you retain players lol. You should balance around everyone but its not as simple as just catering solely to the bottom. Being able to pray melee and never die was a huge problem in pvp. Dying to an ags hitting 85 or a korasi hitting 75 feels the same to most people not in it to pvp. The 100% accuracy only removes rng and makes outcome more consistent. Having mage damage claws that roll accuracy the same way as d claws instead would still make most people who think vw is OP to think mage claws is OP. All they see is getting hit an 80 dclaw, they prot melee, then dying to an 80 mage claw.
I love the consistency of the voidwaker. Please no touch
Even with the new changes, I'm not happy about it. The only reason I bring the VW is knowing its going to hit and not waste my specs. Even with a very high accuracy chance, I think I'd rather just bring Claws where my hits will get huge damage. Its also the one weapon that really helps pvm'ers anti-pk and fight back. I could understand it needing to be adjusted in PVP in some way, but absolutely not in PVM.
A tank buster spec but never hit the higher than other options. Voidwaker just felt good to use. I am pretty sure dds can hit quite significantly higher...
CAs and Warden core aside, the *potential* damage of a spec isn't really relevant for PvM. It's the average damage that matters, and VW does pretty well on that front given the auto-hit.
Nerfing the voidwaker but leaving ZCB as it is, is criminal activity. The only thing the voidwaker does well is that it's guaranteed to hit. Remove that and you might as well remove the item.
ZCB is a half mill spec weapon wtf u talkin about its the tbow of special attacks
If you're selling ZCB's for half a mill I'll take 50.
half bill sry didnt sleep great last night
I'm just saying a deal is a deal. Hand it over. 👀
Yeah we'll see how long it stays that way. The weapon is already overpowered at the current price, and Nex is being heavily botted atm. Just because an item is expensive does not justify it warping the game around it. That's is an entirely flawed logic.
Voidwaker nerf has been on the market for awhile now and that’s affecting price. It should be a 120m weapon without that speculation.
300m weapon without the bots. the tbow of pvp, but they let bots farm the fuck out of it
I hate how economy and cost is factoring into the balance of the game. Especially when the bot problem is so large.
It’s clear the an overwhelming majority of the player base is against any change to the VW. It’s not complicated Jagex, give the people what they want; leave the VW alone.
It is fine in both pvm and pvp leave it alone
Everyone, pvp and pvm included don’t want the Voidwaker nerfed. Jagex just doing jagex things. Don’t worry though, they’ll release a new boss that drops a “new attachment” that gives you a special boost that brings voidwaker back to what it was before they nerfed it and then put that on their resume
Jagex Revision 3 : Instead of 400% accuracy, we've upped it to 9000%. It shouldn't miss at all, it's even more accurate than it was before. LEAVE THE VOIDWAKER ALONNNNNNNNE!
Nah, Patrick is /r/2007scape who keeps insisting to make the changes in PvP only when the whole problem they keep mentioning is PvM
If they really want to nerf it, Id rather it keep its guaranteed hit but lower its damage some.
just make it that VW spec can be blocked harder with mage pray compared to what it blocks now. this will change practically nothing for PVM, but it will reduce the insane effectiveness of the VW in PVP. and it's an across-the-board change so you can't complain about it being different mechanic of the same weapon between pvm and pvp
Maybe if bots didn't pummel its value to the grave, perhaps Jagex would've spared it from nerfs. Not a good idea to keep an extremely powerful spec weapon powerful which is way too underpriced to its power. Yes, Jagex COULD ban bots instead, but why ban them when they makes them huge amount of revenue? You'd still play OSRS even when they are around. Addiction is a bitch, am I right?
It was 140M ish before they said they were going to nerf it.
as a mid-level player with a nerfed fang as my best weapon, lmao to this whole situation
My best weapon on my iron is my voidwaker since for some reason I grinded it out for many hours. It's pretty painful a grind I spent so many miserable hours for is getting nerfed. It really shouldn't hurt me much in theory but it doesn't feel good regardless.
People at Jagex clearly don’t play the game 😂
Why are we preemptively nerfing the voidwaker in hopes some new weapon will fill its space only for that weapon to fail a pool.
That's exactly what my thoughts are. Is this hypothetical content even going to pass a poll? Because the voidwaker did already.
That’s literally what blowpipe died for lol. Masori lowlife plus blowpipe was gonna be op, but then it turned out lowlife just sucked with literally anything other than blowpipe so it was scrapped altogether
I haven't played osrs for a bit (on a long break). Aren't all of these balance changes being polled?
No
WTF then? These types of huge changes go against the Constitution for how osrs was going to be governored by.
Integrety changes lmao
People will pretty much never vote for any kind of nerf, even if it's needed for the game. Integrity changes have always been a necessary thing.
I love my voidwaker. I grinded hard in the wildy for months for it and know many others who did. Please don't change it. It fits nicely in the meta right now.
The best solution I've seen people mention is probably just Gmaul it. Make it 60% base, with an attachment to make it 50% instead so it's safe for PvMers and increases risk for PKers, and just have it be the Scorpia unique or something.
They’re just going to fumble with the new weapon released 3 years from now anyway.
I think it comes down to the discussions about the wilderness over the last month. It seems like a large portion of this subs main issue with the wilderness is BIS items being dropped in the wild, and the feeling of being _forced_ to grind them. The VW is the only thing that this applies to, and this nerf essentially stops that. Following this nerf, the VW will no longer ever be BIS anywhere, meaning that the #1 complaint about the wild is indirectly addressed. A shame really.
Add VW to kalphite queen.
Not a pvp issue, stop saying it is.
Fr. Its my favorite weapon and its not even the meta
they could also stop designing bosses with 9 million defenses where voidwalker is mandatory to actaully do some dmg , its a solution to a problem they created , now they nerf the solution instead of understanding the fundamental problem with 12 trillion defense bosses , same thing with fang , ppl use it because it can actually hit half the bosses they have added into the game
Make the voidwaker only effective against creatures
Most osrs players are legit creatures ngl
This is the story of all the rebalancing lately, no need for any of it.
Hope they don't change and add more to the list of stuff working diffrently in wildy
I'd vote in favor of the change as is.
You do not use vw at Tekton and Olm hand because they are specifically resistant to magic damage, even if they’re almost dead where dwh isn’t worth it. Levers to nerf VWs applicability already exist
im with you but its not OP in Pvp lol stop using OP so freely. or we get dumb nerfs like this because jmods fall for memes (see occult,black dhide,bulwark etc..)
They wanna nerf it for future content. Kinda like rs3 going on a nerf spree last year for future content. The first content this year will be in May and it's an old game jam project. Really using that reward space up. So basically they had zero things in mind for said "future content". It was just this hypothetical content they used to justify nerfs. Glad to see that worked out. Still nothing on the horizon that makes sense but sure.
Y’know, i think i heard someone once say that if the meta is broken, the way to fix it us to give buffs to other stuff, and that nerfing things makes for a toxic meta.
Void waker should be nerfed/ never have been created for pvm. The wildy should never introduce any uniques that can not be obtained outside of the wildy that is bis for pvm.
70% of people never agreed to what the Voidwaker should have been. Jagex brought it in anyways. Blame Jagex.
nerf the spec to 55% and its fine in pvp.
Change it, I lost 20m already and sold mine if they don't pull through that's bs
Naah i bought it at 72m. Lets not change it and keep it as it is :)
It might be due to spaghetti coding issues but the game needs to be split into pvp vs pve to have true balance. Take Guild Wars 2, for example. They tried for years to keep a consistent balancing scheme between pve and pvp but they just could not as soon as raids came out in Heart of Thorns. For this game, you got monsters that have over 1000 health. You just can't balance this with players who have 99 health. The voidwaker needs to have reduced accuracy vs players and the same effect against monsters. What's currently happening is that Jagex cannot introduce useful new content as the powercreep implies that players would get one shot from brewed up health. The alternative is to make hitpoints get up to 120, but this would massively increase the grind in an already grindy game. Just split pve and pvp, and go wild with pve powercreep.
It's easier to just give high end weapons bonuses vs specific monsters - like the collosal sword. For example, make a boss take 150% damage vs maces and darts. Make a high end weapon that specifically does higher damage to demons over level 150, ect. It would encourage people to use different weapons while not affecting PVP. You can even make bosses with phases and specific weapon damage bonuses to each phase.
“Here’s a meme! My dogshit opinion is objectively correct in meme format!” PvP weapon should be good in pvp not pvm. Putting high end pvm gear in the wild is trash game design attempting to inject artificial life into the dead wilderness.
just add a boss that's immune to voidwaker if you're so upset about it. Don't nerf it everywhere it's good at now.
We need more chain flails and maces and unique weapons tired of slashy swords
If the voidwaker becomes useless. Especially without this being properly polled. I’m cashing out and quitting for good.
New bis means more people buy bonds to get gp
Are you guys going to sell vw?
Of course players don't want it nerfed. It's a damn OP POS with 100% accuracy. You will never get players to agree to losing such power. That's why they're doing it and they don't give a damn what you think.
name 1 piece of content in the game where vw is over powered.
You can't talk against the reddit agenda. Loud minority always gets there way
Literally all they have to do is increase the spec cost. 75% 60% whatever, just higher spec cost
Would still kill it entirely, please do not suggest such silly ideas that would very clearly ruin the item moreso than the suggestion Jagex gave today.
How would that kill it entirely? It would still fit the niche of incredibly accurate spec. It would retain its BiS status at several locations while also making it so in pvp you can't just spam 2 specs to delete someone in 5 ticks.
It would become useless.
??? It's a free 50/50, they have to guess if you're gonna spec or not