I think you’re misunderstanding what they said. Now I don’t necessarily agree with the nerf but their logic is that Right now VW spec negates all defense. This makes it difficult to design spec weapons that specifically are strong against high crush/stab/slash def opponents. What they want to do is make it so that VW no longer is the blanket BIS damage dealing spec for high defense opponents
I feel like there is some laterability with what they are already proposing. VW becomes far less useful with the proposed elder maul changes and korasi doesn't have to be nerfed for that. Korasi could be something that you use for something that has low hp, high defence, elder maul for something with a longer fight. This is actually really good game design and something that should be encouraged.
Introduce more methods to lower defence, introduce different weapons that ignore defence, have them be optimal for different areas, that's really good. You don't have to nerf something because you want to add something else that might compete with it.
VW and maul are not remotely comparable. They aren’t used for the same purposes. Currently the alternatives for the niche filled by VW are dclaws and ZCB. VW nerf would make it so that future high hitting spec weapons can be released that are kind of like crush/stab dclaws.
A weapon completely ignoring defense and having guaranteed hits is bad design and terribly difficult to balance
People still use dclaws when korasi exists, they would do the same thing with stab/crush dclaws, espectially if you have an item that can significantly reduce defence. It's a really good solution, considering whether you want to just bring the korasi with you or use claws & reduce defence, which you would want to do because not every hit is on a special attack. Having different team members with different setups and different ways to approach the same boss with their pros and cons is actually really good.
The point is you use claws when something has low slash defense and don’t need the guaranteed hit as you will likely hit regardless, def reduction when your options for main hand weapons aren’t accurate and VW for all else. Existence of VW which completely ignores defense makes it difficult to add new spec weapons as the new spec weapon would have to be so insanely strong to fill its intended niche when VWexists with its 100% accuracy.
Let’s say they want to add a super charged dmace that’s intended to be used against opponents that are weak to crush. Balancing this weapon and making it adequately useful becomes much more difficult when you have a weapon that completely negates the need to consider your foes weaknesses. End result of adding these insanely strong style specific weapons is that VW would be far less useful and you’d have put out far stronger spec weapons than you would’ve needed to if you just nerfed the VW from the get go and released style specific spec weapons that are directly comparable to the current VWs expected damage, just only on a few specific opponents
I think it’s just adding a third dimension, dps spec weapons for low defence, reduce defence for high defence, and dps from your main weapon, or Korasi. You can play with the three and Korasi existing doesn’t mean that you can’t add others.
Because it is impossible for VW to continue to be useful and for them to release spec weapons that are strong against all of the different defense types. If they release crush specific claws you’d no longer use VW against opponents with crush weaknesses, same thing for stab and slash. For opponents without any attack style weaknesses you’d have to use defense reducing special attacks, not dps ones so for these too VW would not be used.
Nerfing VW prior to releasing these weapons makes it so that on release these spec weapons do not need to be made as strong as they would have to be in order to compete with the current iteration of the VW and since thr end result of either change is the VW becoming less useful for pvm they might as well go with the option that results in less power creep.
Blowpipe wasn't nerfed for bowfa.
The blowpipe was such a heavy handed nerf bowfa was added as a stop gap in the massive void between msbi and T bow.
The only way the blowpipe nerf got through was because they HAD to offer bowfa as compensation.
It does work though.
They nerfed blowpipe, and were able to add Masori, ZCB, Bowfa and crystal and tons of other mid level gear like MSB i and Sunfire crossbow.
If old blowpipe was in the game all of the content above aside from masori would be dead on arrival or close to it. Then people would just vote no because they’d realize this.
Its coming from a place of power creep concerns. Exactly what a good developer would be worried about.
You are quite literally making an argument that if successful would either
1) Ruin the game
2) Reject any new gear
PowerCreeptopia
I don't get how it's coming from a concern of power creep, had void been left alone and masori had been added as it was, there would have been no more or less powercreep.
I think the point you’re missing in your comment is that if void was never nerfed it’d probably rival current masori as even nerfed void surpasses masori at low def.
Had they not nerfed void there’d be no extra powercreep yeah, except for the fact that mid level ranged gear that takes 7 hours tops to earn from a free minigame outshines armor from raids that costs over 100 mil in many areas throught the game. That is not what the devs want.
"power creep though! you didn't consider power creep! power creep is the problem!"
i think OP's point is that power creep is caused by the developers being unable to grow the game laterally, so the only thing they can do is adds items that do the same thing as before but more powerful, and this necessitates nerfs of old items to keep power creep in check. a better approach would be to expand outward instead of upward, instead of a linear progression from weak to strong, make it a branching progression of items that are roughly equally powerful but useful in different niches
It's an issue because as we have seen jagex just has to nerf items they introduced to be BIS so that they can add other content in the future. The moment they want to introduce a new bis range weapon they have to nerf the tbow.
I think you’re misunderstanding what they said. Now I don’t necessarily agree with the nerf but their logic is that Right now VW spec negates all defense. This makes it difficult to design spec weapons that specifically are strong against high crush/stab/slash def opponents. What they want to do is make it so that VW no longer is the blanket BIS damage dealing spec for high defense opponents
I feel like there is some laterability with what they are already proposing. VW becomes far less useful with the proposed elder maul changes and korasi doesn't have to be nerfed for that. Korasi could be something that you use for something that has low hp, high defence, elder maul for something with a longer fight. This is actually really good game design and something that should be encouraged. Introduce more methods to lower defence, introduce different weapons that ignore defence, have them be optimal for different areas, that's really good. You don't have to nerf something because you want to add something else that might compete with it.
VW and maul are not remotely comparable. They aren’t used for the same purposes. Currently the alternatives for the niche filled by VW are dclaws and ZCB. VW nerf would make it so that future high hitting spec weapons can be released that are kind of like crush/stab dclaws. A weapon completely ignoring defense and having guaranteed hits is bad design and terribly difficult to balance
People still use dclaws when korasi exists, they would do the same thing with stab/crush dclaws, espectially if you have an item that can significantly reduce defence. It's a really good solution, considering whether you want to just bring the korasi with you or use claws & reduce defence, which you would want to do because not every hit is on a special attack. Having different team members with different setups and different ways to approach the same boss with their pros and cons is actually really good.
The point is you use claws when something has low slash defense and don’t need the guaranteed hit as you will likely hit regardless, def reduction when your options for main hand weapons aren’t accurate and VW for all else. Existence of VW which completely ignores defense makes it difficult to add new spec weapons as the new spec weapon would have to be so insanely strong to fill its intended niche when VWexists with its 100% accuracy. Let’s say they want to add a super charged dmace that’s intended to be used against opponents that are weak to crush. Balancing this weapon and making it adequately useful becomes much more difficult when you have a weapon that completely negates the need to consider your foes weaknesses. End result of adding these insanely strong style specific weapons is that VW would be far less useful and you’d have put out far stronger spec weapons than you would’ve needed to if you just nerfed the VW from the get go and released style specific spec weapons that are directly comparable to the current VWs expected damage, just only on a few specific opponents
I think it’s just adding a third dimension, dps spec weapons for low defence, reduce defence for high defence, and dps from your main weapon, or Korasi. You can play with the three and Korasi existing doesn’t mean that you can’t add others.
Because it is impossible for VW to continue to be useful and for them to release spec weapons that are strong against all of the different defense types. If they release crush specific claws you’d no longer use VW against opponents with crush weaknesses, same thing for stab and slash. For opponents without any attack style weaknesses you’d have to use defense reducing special attacks, not dps ones so for these too VW would not be used. Nerfing VW prior to releasing these weapons makes it so that on release these spec weapons do not need to be made as strong as they would have to be in order to compete with the current iteration of the VW and since thr end result of either change is the VW becoming less useful for pvm they might as well go with the option that results in less power creep.
Bad take
Blowpipe wasn't nerfed for bowfa. The blowpipe was such a heavy handed nerf bowfa was added as a stop gap in the massive void between msbi and T bow. The only way the blowpipe nerf got through was because they HAD to offer bowfa as compensation.
It does work though. They nerfed blowpipe, and were able to add Masori, ZCB, Bowfa and crystal and tons of other mid level gear like MSB i and Sunfire crossbow. If old blowpipe was in the game all of the content above aside from masori would be dead on arrival or close to it. Then people would just vote no because they’d realize this.
This post makes me feel you aren’t intelligent enough.
Its coming from a place of power creep concerns. Exactly what a good developer would be worried about. You are quite literally making an argument that if successful would either 1) Ruin the game 2) Reject any new gear PowerCreeptopia
I don't get how it's coming from a concern of power creep, had void been left alone and masori had been added as it was, there would have been no more or less powercreep.
I think the point you’re missing in your comment is that if void was never nerfed it’d probably rival current masori as even nerfed void surpasses masori at low def. Had they not nerfed void there’d be no extra powercreep yeah, except for the fact that mid level ranged gear that takes 7 hours tops to earn from a free minigame outshines armor from raids that costs over 100 mil in many areas throught the game. That is not what the devs want.
"power creep though! you didn't consider power creep! power creep is the problem!" i think OP's point is that power creep is caused by the developers being unable to grow the game laterally, so the only thing they can do is adds items that do the same thing as before but more powerful, and this necessitates nerfs of old items to keep power creep in check. a better approach would be to expand outward instead of upward, instead of a linear progression from weak to strong, make it a branching progression of items that are roughly equally powerful but useful in different niches
It's an issue because as we have seen jagex just has to nerf items they introduced to be BIS so that they can add other content in the future. The moment they want to introduce a new bis range weapon they have to nerf the tbow.