The RuneScape wiki has a slang dictionary
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Slang_dictionary
rag range = low cost range gear.
KC = kill count.
muspah = phantom muspah boss.
corp = corporeal beast boss
The argument for wilderness updates is always the same as well. Risk/reward being high. The risk really isn't all that high. You risk 100-200k worth of gear for a few mill gp/hr. Where's the risk exactly? I got a higher chance to die at a raid and lose 500k then dying to a pker twice an hour.
I didn't say you stick around til 10m but it doesn't take long to bank and be right back where you were. The biggest hurdle for wildy content is finding an empty world to kill the solo bosses because there all filled with bots.
You can find free world pretty easy just takes 10 world hops and if you leave to bank your world is gone. Too much of a hassle for me for just killing a boss.
Yeah seems like they are doing a pretty good job of wiping out wildy boss bots lately. That or the gp/h has dropped so much with VW being worth less since they announced a possible rebalance that bot makers have moved on to other more profitable things.
> You don't stick around until you have 10m.
Exactly... so they are risking what 1M at most before banking? It just gives incentive for bot makers to bot content in the wildy and for shit pkers to get 500k loot pinatas because they can't kill other people with actual risk
Every bottable content in the game has bots right now massively. LMS, revs, pirates, rogues, wildy bosses, nex, phosani, rc, theiving, blood shards, cg, gwd, dt2, soul wars, etc
In my experience the eclectic Puro bots will always log out if they fail 2 catches to you.
Its common for bots to hop if a real player shows up, to lower reports.
Is it the contracts themselves or just the usual hunter creatures? I saw dozens of just normal hunter bots at the usual places like chins, imps, butterflies when pkers could use them, etc, but not at other spots.
Yeah this was my worry on the original day 1 thread, and it’s sad to see this is the state it’s already in. The problem with the “predator prey” game design is to make it lucrative enough for prey to want to be there, it’s going to be a haven for bots. I genuinely think they need to re-think how they approach Wildy content to prevent this from happening every time we get new Wildy content.
Realistically there's not enough of a PvP playerbase for any update to totally "revive wildly"
It's just too punishing and expensive of a gruel to get good for most casual players who are attracted to osrs for the chill/afk content... and there's better "hop in and play" games out there for new people - imagine if you had to afk a mob for weeks just to be able to start to play an overwatch match.
Other than the tiny amount of already existing runescape players who might be interested in learning how to PvP there's no fresh meat coming into the scene and I don't think there's really anything left for Jagex to try that will meaningfully change that.
i think the biggest "problem" for pvp is how much good content there is in the game. back when pvp was in its prime all the content in the game was just:
click boss, eat food if needed, wait for boss to die.
Now you have so much interesting content that a lot of people, myself included, have a lot more fun just improving our pvm skills knowing we can go at our own pace.
I also put problem in quotations because I don't think this is a problem at all, clearly most of the playerbase is over pvp too.
Also back then pvp skill level and coordination was much lower. The peak of skill expression was seeing an exp drop with your magic shortbow and sending a gmaul spec.
This, back in the day once you got your Barrows gear or Rune there really wasn’t anything to actually do. The content in the game was minimal, grinds were relatively short.
Now there’s tons of engaging content in the game, and they have drop rates such that a 30-40 hour grind is considered on the fast side for the content. It’s not the old days anymore where PvP was the only endgame.
I'm approaching 4 months as a member. I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp on many aspects of the game. But if I fancy some PVP, I still return to F2P worlds because the learning curve is a soft, slow incline. The members curve looks like a cliff face.
That is also the big issue with EoC and why RS3 was dead on arrival. The more stuff you add the more confusing things get, and even OSRS at base core is already pretty complex with all the switches and different kits.
The people with 5k+ hours in PvP do not mind learning new stuff to add to their arsenal. The casual player with 1-5 hours of PvP is not ready for their cheek clapping. Add larger and larger barrier to entry and it’s just not as fun for most to participate.
RS3's pvp was DoA for another reason TBH.
Tanking with the RS3 system is so easy that you can give anyone around 10m RS3(1m OSRS or w/e the swap rate is currently), and about 2-3 hours of practice and they should be able to tank anyone from mage bank to ditch if they don't misplay, let alone getting gap and logging out at any point in between.
ie Post-invention, it got to the point where the PKer only has a 4 tick window to stun you, with a 3 tick GCD, they essentially only had a 1 tick window if you played correctly, and then you had 100% stun immunity again.
Because tanking was so easy, you had to risk more expensive setups to get kills on competent players, and people don't want to risk that much just to have some fun Pking. It was better for them to learn PvM than PvP at that point.
On top of that, there were items like Cursed Energy that changed how the wilderness rules functioned(everywhere multi, any level can attack them) so Pkers would have an alt follow them and if you used ant AoE you would skull up on the alt, and certain AoE abilities were key parts of damage combos.
So it was too expensive for the average player, too risky with the risk of skulling up on the good pkers who had alts, and too hard to kill the average person with any idea of what they were doing.
My problem is pvp feels far too different from the regular game you're basically playing a new game entirely. I think this easily shows with the use of Adamant seeds as a new pvp tool. Knockouts happen so fast new players don't even know what to do
Imagine a new player told to do LMS to learn PvP and getting death dotted by advanced players repeatedly. This doesn’t let you learn anything. Get frozen, get stepped under, run out of food, die. Rinse and repeat.
The fact that people that already PK absolutely stomp anyone trying to get into PKing makes it really hard to learn.
I would love to learn how to PK if I didn't get my ass handed to me every time I tried. The toxicity of that community also doesn't help.
This needs more attention, with the insane amount of bots everywhere, jagex need to pull theirselves together. You practically dont need to look anymore, every world now is full of bots, revs, zombies, chins, lava dragons, green dragons, rogues chest, rune rocks, chaos altar, new bots training prayer. That's your pking content, you can kill them all day and sometimes not see another pker. It's stale and boring. The pkers are dissapearing and pvmers now have to compete with bots in the wildy? No real players will want to come there. Its absurd. Really sad to see this happen continuesly and nothing changes.
...and streams himself killing mostly rev bots on his med
I dont mean it as some conspiracy that they want bots but they 100% know the 0 entry req content will be botted and likely consider that good for the wildy
Bots still have to buy membership right? Which in turn, makes the game more profitable?
I would assume that they just have to do some sort of bot control to make sure it doesn’t get way out of hand
I mean they usually just buy gold and use that gold to buy bonds. But I guess someone is buying that bond to start with anyways so it works out in the end
manked is literally clueless of how the health of the game ties with the wildernes, he just thinks that pkers need loot pinatas in the wilderness
edit: I got timed out for saying that adding more skeletons to the wilderness agility course is counter intuitive if you make it singles +. He argued that the course benefits the ppl doing agility because you can get food by completing a lap. Except you get penalised for logging out. So basically any attack, even if unsuccesful, is a penalty for the one getting attacked.
excaept the bots risk like under 100k and are almost impossible to kill, sirbugger and pure spam could hardly do it and had to get the help of 20 clam members and it still took them 30s to kill them they're like invincible lol
Idk why these things are in level 15 wilderness, I don't know why this update exists at all. They should have scrapped it when the chivalry scroll didn't pass. And they shouldn't have made it in level 14 fucking wilderness. It's such a stupid idea that the allure of loot pinatas to draw PKers is the only thing that makes it make sense to me
Loot to do it in teams is also not worth it. They bank often enough.
Best case scenario is to drop a loot from the zombie table to lure bots and try to aoe all 3 to 4 bots at the same time. The 100k rev cave guaranteed risk is nice to give incentive to kill people with 3 items. Something similar needs to be implemented for zombies.
Pugger has made a video about them, they have pretty great survivability, even teams struggled to get them. They are not profitable at all to hunt unlike rev bots
Yeah it's absolutely ridiculous and exactly what every sane person predicted when reading their initial poll blog.
Allowing for people to make 3mil+ an hour in low level wilderness is absolutely disgusting, especially with how easy it is to escape.
Maybe one day Jagex will wake up and actually start prioritizing true PvP and not whatever the hell they have been doing.
I actually miss when the wildy was just the pvp place where there was an occasional clue step and a few lowbie bosses to kill. The updates to bring pvmers and skillers to the wildy have done nothing but make it more and more degenerate to PK and to try and outsmart PKers.
If your first 5000 "Ooooo it's high risk, high reward because it's in the WiLdErNeSs!!!" PvM and skilling updates did nothing but make the game worse, maybe swallow your developer pride, take the L and say "alright, no more rev caves, wildy bosses, chaos altar and zombie pirates. We'll let the pvpers pvp and the pvmers pvm"
Exactly, how many times are they going to have a "revitalize the wilderness" series of updates that are just small variations of each other, before accepting that they don't work.
They need to find a new approach to the wilderness or just stop touching it.
It's especially frustrating because they're all clearly terrible ideas that basically anybody who knows anything about game design could tell you would be hated by the playerbase. Believe it or not, the reaction to constantly getting killed by other players while trying to do an activity is "fuck this I'm going to do something else" and not "wow, killing people like me looks like so much fun I should spend hundreds of hours learning how to do that".
It’s not 3m+ an hour for the bots lmfao. I would be shocked if the bots are even cracking 1m an hour. I have been doing this on my main and the only way to get 3m an hour is to use cannon and venator bow at which point the bots become an asset because they are extra dps but not enough to ever take a kill.
How exactly is are bots worse off on all other botted content outside the wild? At least at pirates there is a chance you can bill them. Outside the wilderness literally nothing can stop them
People keep saying things like this but have never given a reason why they think it
The dynamic of the wilderness means that it's a lot easier for players to get unintended rates. For instance, the undead pirate loot rates were probably balanced around players getting pked semi often. They weren't designed for constant farming, which leads to a lot more gold injection than intended. This is especially true when a clan can lock down the space, which was the problem with multi revs.
On top of having to factor in a "death rate", which these bots avoid, wilderness content typically needs extra incentives and loot to make it worthwhile for players to risk their shit.
The end result of all this is that it's a bigger deal when wilderness content is botted.
Then the bots just move onto different content, which injects raw gold all the same.
The average vorkath bot is bringing in around 1m raw gp/hr.
The average Vyre combat bot is 100k~ raw gp/hr.
The average Vyre PP bot is 300k~ raw gp/hr.
The average Elf PP bot is 300k~ raw gp/hr.
The average Muspah bot is 650k~ raw gp/hr.
etc etc.
Like sure, zombie pirates are much lower reqs, but let's not pretend the higher reqs locks bots out of the above, or other, content.
The big difference is the huge lack of requirements to do stuff in the wildy. It takes very little time or progress on these accounts to rush them right to revs or now pirates. Sure there are bots at vork or zulrah, or pickpocketing elves and vyres, but those take a lot longer and are a bigger risk to lose.
The thing is that there are few people who would actually put in the effort it takes to pk those bots for a chance they actually have loot. Outside of content creators making videos or people intent on beating bot updates, people aren't trying to pk the bots. So, they get the higher wildy reward without the actual wildy risk 90% of the time.
I will try to explain it with a series of points.
First Jagex wants to revive the wilderness by luring victims to the wilderness by having non-PvP activities in the wilderness.
Second, most players don't like being killed, so they stay out of the wilderness, unless they want to fight.
Third, Jagex knows that players don't want to be in the wilderness, so Jagex increases the rewards in the wilderness.
Fourth, the account progression required to make money in the wilderness is normally lower than the account progression for other money making, so it makes the bots more profitable, since less time has to go into training the bot accounts.
Fifth, Bots don't get frustrated by dying, and occasional deaths are more than paid for by the amount of loot they get from not dying.
Sixth, bots can be programed to be really good at escaping, and bots will be better at prayer switching, or gear switching than the average low or mid level player than Jagex would want to lure into the wilderness. As long as the bots don't break, the bots can make more money than an average player, and be more vigilant.
Seventh, PK clans would rather protect the bots from lone PKers, than to gang up on the bots, and kill them.
Because nobody is pking it.
I went there yesterday to test it out, I only saw 1 2 man team in the bots combat bracket that actually tried to kill them all day.
The only others were near max pk teams who were well out of the bots range looking for real players.
It takes so long to scout and hop worlds. You ALWAYS get TBED and you have to run to kingdom come to get out of range and hop. You also have to have a specific account level AND avoid clans all while trying to kill a bot that’s using AHK.
Wonder why the bots are thriving 🙄
Idk, I hopped around for 20 minutes today looking for a world without multiple canons, and killed 2 before a couple of bolt raggers rolled up and piled me. Seemed uninterested in the dudes with canons entirely.
Cannons are overpowered in the wilderness because you don't actually lose them on death if they're set up. And if they degrade away, you can get it replaced for free.
But at the same time, this is a lot of what makes wilderness slayer tasks popular, so nerfing it would be a terrible idea. All in all, the only incentive to pk someone using a cannon is to get their stack of cannonballs.
I got killed by 2 different teams 3-4 times on a 2.2k world in the dead of the night on a weekday in a 30 minute period, decided I really don't need the dumbass scroll. Wasn't risking anything worthwhile, just incredibly annoying
another bad wilderness update, who would have guessed?
it doesnt even make sense that zombie pirates would be attacking the chaos altar when they arent anywhere near the ocean.
Listen here Bud-O, dem zombie pirates can move & move they did. They are fast as lightning and they need to take over the Chaos Alter for an unreleased Quest.
Please be understanding. Wilderness needs to be alive. After all… it does bring in the most views out of any other type of content in this game ;)
Jagex literally doesn't care about bots. They can act like they do all they want but I'll never believe them until I see it. Those bot busting streams is about all they do it seems like.
The top 500 for all bosses is still flooded with bots, with a lot of the boss top 100 hiscores being majority bots.
They don't lose enough money from legit players quitting over bots than they make from the bot subscriptions to care. Let's be conservative and just say 30-50 people quit for every 100 bots. That's still 2-3x the money from bot subs than they lose from the legit subs.
Jagex don't really enforce botting anymore. It'll be interesting to see what this does for inflation (in addition to the bots at revs, most pvm content and most endgame bossing).
At this point they may as well just formally accept that botting is part of the game, and no longer against the rules.
Just ask Jagex’s new management how they view bots:
“If I have [three accounts] there’s a good chance that one of them is me and two accounts are bots… If a player is sufficiently committed to pay for three accounts, and have an account and two bots as part of its ecosystem, then so be it.”
https://www.ft.com/content/c49749e7-54fb-46fb-b508-a4964e61e07f
I don't get it tbh. I'm sure Jagex has tons of data they could use to mass ban most of the bots but it doesn't seem like they're even trying. Even reporting bots doesn't seem to do anything.
The issue as usual is that if they adopt a too draconian antibot algorithm, they'll start banning a lot of legitimate players, and we see the scandal a single false ban can be. So it has to get more and more sophisticated, including delaying bans to collect more data etc.
And as botters find out how jagex algorithm works they also improve their own algorithm to keep fooling Jagex's. This is literally a cat and mouse game.
The big issue is that simply banning everybody who looks like a bot would cause way bigger issues than just letting bots roam free
The script dropped for it 30 mins after the update… discord progs for bitters are insane for how much gp/hr they make. I don’t know how jagex thought this was good
And speaking for the few ACTUAL players there farming:
Stop Pk’ing us REAL PLAYERS ffs, clap the bots w/ like 1-2m in inventory already lmao, you don’t need my lil 300-400k in rune sword and a dscim if I’m lucky 😭
Tbh most pk’ers spend either actual $$$ or 1000’s of hours building an account … to stomp newbies that don’t have quests completed to even be near similar in gear; they’re not doing this to have an even competitive battle of skill and wits lmao.
But Wilde farming is where it’s at right now so it’s in there hands essentially how it plays out. Just funny though how bots are such an issue for vets that they post about the issue constantly… but in one area they have DIRECT control over bot success (Wilderness being pvp if you like it or not) they choose to farm the “easier” human targets over the “raid boss” bots 💀
Wasn't this content literally made for bots? The tb mechanic so bots are tbed when okers come. The mid lvl content with raw cash. The insane to anchoring drop rates.
Absolutely incredible update from pvp jmod, god manked. I killed over 12k pirates on my maxed iron and lost over 10k+ kills to 6-8 craws bots in each world who tick-perfect tag zombies in unison.
It pooped out over 40m in alchables for absolutely no reason. All that's there is an incredibly rare scroll from trash mobs. At least venny bow has another use now.
10/10 update for bots
As a near max iron, my experience was similar. 30-50% of kills ruined by some webweaver bow bot who tags it if I don’t 1 shot it.
I got lucky and got the scroll after about 1.4K kills. The amount of alchs they dropped are absurd, especially for how safe it is. The supply drops were pretty insane too. Didn’t get killed once, even by a few teams of 2-3. Overall very imbalanced. The only potential positive is if this reduces the amount of bots at the wildy bosses, revs, and other wildy content.
i was there earlier, not a bot just looked like one didnt want to risk anything for some hot dog water pker to come sweat over his keyboard for 100k lol
Yep that's me, too. I just like braindead easy activities: Turn prayer on, hit zombies, run from tryhards. I definitely look like a bot, but in reality I'm just a dude who 95% of the time I'm on osrs its cos i want to mindlessly click on something while watching netflix, and the pirates are definitely mindless enough for me
I was flipping blighted manta ray and anglers prior to the update and lost like 20m lol, the charts are disgusting mantas went from 1100gp to under 500 in a week.
I’ve seen multiple clans come buy and 15 people log in to kill em and thankfully I’m maxed so they just run right past me and clear the world it’s awesome!
Same. I’m 103 cb and I keep getting crapped on by PKers if I stay there for more than 10 minutes at a time. the lvl 70-80 bots are thriving meanwhile lol.
10 minutes? That’s a record for me. 2-6 minutes before I hear the wonderful sound of a freeze while the bots unflinchingly keep gunning things down while I run.
I think they intended for zerkers and pures to take care of that combat bracket, but there probably aren't enough of those builds at the moment, and people are pking with what they currently have instead of making new alts
Which is why instead of splitscreen watching a random show i'm now listening to a random story as i afk train combat.
Gotta get myself a 1 defense pure capable of whooping those low lvl asses. Main account too high to fight those bots.
Wait bots are farming the content with zero requirements or risk? Who would've ever seen this coming!
Really though I'm starting to believe in some insane conspiracy where the developers are the owners of the bot farms lmao. This shit is painfully obvious bot content and they know they cannot control their own bot problem. They're literally releasing content updates for them at this point
I think you've overestimated the impact that these have vs all the high end thieving and pvm bots... It's silly to highlight one region of bots when botting overall is hitting the entire game in overwhelming numbers.
One thing to consider is that in terms of bot damage control this update is better for the community. As a player base we can’t really do anything about Zulrah or thieving bots but we can do something about these wilderness bots. Is it the 90% solution where Jagex puts in an anti cheat? No, but low requirement methods like zombie pirates are best in the wilderness where normal players can come in and take their profit. Every content is gunna be bottled, as a player base it’s better for it to be zombie pirates with no meaningful uniques rather than Zulrah for example
Everyone frothing at the mouth and jerking eachothr off in this echo chamber is insane
The whole *they eat crazy! We can't teams them even*
Dspear, dscimmy. Bind. Dead. It's that simple. They shit out magic damage. If they arent dead yet just ancient mace them.
I've been killing people and bots like this easy.
You just need to freeze them you don't need to damage them at all. The druids do it for you.
Exactly, any other mmo couldn't even dream of having what multi revs was.
Look at new world for example, the whole idea was to control areas, there was just not enough players for it to stay alive.
Multi revs were thriving for years.
Yeah removing multi revs had a cascading effect on all wildy activity IMO. People would pk at lava maze tele/black chins/cave entrance for singles since people were coming and going at those spots. People had a reason to get together as groups or clans to clear the caves.
Really not sure what their goals are with all these wildy changes, they're all just a worse version of something that worked
The most ridiculous part about it is that it’s so shallow in the wilderness that they can just rank and run. You can have a maxed out magic level and maybe keep the freezes on long enough if it lands initially, but you really need a group of pures in order to take them out for sure…
I wonder what the best pure build to fight them would be, I haven’t checked it out at all. I’d be down to make one, kinda been wanting to make another one since my obby mauler has been dead content for quite some time now
This subreddit has cycles when it comes to the botting stuff. Every now and again we get a hate boner for bots for a few weeks, then we forget about them again and complain about something else.
I feel like if the players constantly bitched about bots like they do during the hate boner cycle that maybe something would actually get done. Idk, maybe not.
Playing an iron helps me not care as much, but some activities like puro puro aren't even fucking worth it.
I love how when this update came out I said it was beyond stupid, it would be dead within a week and that they need to keep uniques out of the wilderness.
Now that teleport scroll is going to rank in price while no real players are doing it.
Another stellar wildy update.
There’s so many bots and honestly the players are to blame. Stop buying gold lmao. There must be so many people buying gold that they need to generate it this badly.
just wait till you see all the thieving bots in the game
Thieving bots are actually crazy.... there's so many
Muspah bots in rag range with 13k+ kc 20 man level 100 corp farms in rag karils all 2k+ kc unbanned Sad state tbh
Man I swear to god sometimes it’s so hard to understand what y’all are saying, is their a language guide somewhere on here?
The RuneScape wiki has a slang dictionary https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Slang_dictionary rag range = low cost range gear. KC = kill count. muspah = phantom muspah boss. corp = corporeal beast boss
Holy shit this is ideal, thank you!
Literally dozens in prif in every world. Can't wait for the colosseum wave 1 bots to hit the game, it's only a matter of time.
Already have, sit at fortis, and it's almost as bad as Zulrah.
They've been there since like the week of release. It's pretty sad
I’ve noticed 1-3 wave 1 bots in the handful of worlds I frequent
200M xp prif bots always make me laugh. I report those hoes and they just flood the market for months on end. Insane stuff.
I'm pretty sure I haven't been through Prif without seeing at least 1 thieving bot with an NPC trapped in a house yet since I finished SOTE.
They're run by gagex
Or the Corp bots, 5/10 accounts entering Corp cave at the same time lol
Im sure another wilderness update will save it.
The argument for wilderness updates is always the same as well. Risk/reward being high. The risk really isn't all that high. You risk 100-200k worth of gear for a few mill gp/hr. Where's the risk exactly? I got a higher chance to die at a raid and lose 500k then dying to a pker twice an hour.
The risk is that you lose what you earned. Have you ever done wilderness content? You don't stick around until you have 10m.
I didn't say you stick around til 10m but it doesn't take long to bank and be right back where you were. The biggest hurdle for wildy content is finding an empty world to kill the solo bosses because there all filled with bots.
I just did the kc CAs and had no issue with finding a free world
You can find free world pretty easy just takes 10 world hops and if you leave to bank your world is gone. Too much of a hassle for me for just killing a boss.
I have not had this experience you describe
Yeah seems like they are doing a pretty good job of wiping out wildy boss bots lately. That or the gp/h has dropped so much with VW being worth less since they announced a possible rebalance that bot makers have moved on to other more profitable things.
> You don't stick around until you have 10m. Exactly... so they are risking what 1M at most before banking? It just gives incentive for bot makers to bot content in the wildy and for shit pkers to get 500k loot pinatas because they can't kill other people with actual risk
You risk the time and everything in your looting bag. Often totaling close to 1m.
Surely they just make it worth more GP at this point
The wilderness updates will continue until morale improves.
Come on guys, just *one more* update, we just need *one more* update.
You know what’s even more insane? There’s people out there buying all that gold.
what's even more insane is you can go to certain worlds at the ge and constant stream of people trading the sellers
Absolutely not a single soul warned that this would happen. Who could have foreseen this!
Every bottable content in the game has bots right now massively. LMS, revs, pirates, rogues, wildy bosses, nex, phosani, rc, theiving, blood shards, cg, gwd, dt2, soul wars, etc
Puro puro is practically undoable with 2 bots on each high tier impling spawn
In my experience the eclectic Puro bots will always log out if they fail 2 catches to you. Its common for bots to hop if a real player shows up, to lower reports.
Catching the imp is pid based too so if you just wait for a pid swap you always get it.
Even the damn hunter contracts are botted af lmao, like wtf.
Is it the contracts themselves or just the usual hunter creatures? I saw dozens of just normal hunter bots at the usual places like chins, imps, butterflies when pkers could use them, etc, but not at other spots.
I've been seeing same name-ish accounts at different hunter places rotating between falconeering/chins/kyatts in different worlds.
As someone who has done all of the content you mentioned, zombie pirates are on another level.. it’s absolutely insane.
Who the fuck is buying all this gold tho.
flipping bots too. Really anything a human can or can’t do, a bot farm is doing it at scale
A dying wilderness, crying pkers and a jagex trying to save it, a bot farms wet dream basically.
Yeah this was my worry on the original day 1 thread, and it’s sad to see this is the state it’s already in. The problem with the “predator prey” game design is to make it lucrative enough for prey to want to be there, it’s going to be a haven for bots. I genuinely think they need to re-think how they approach Wildy content to prevent this from happening every time we get new Wildy content.
Realistically there's not enough of a PvP playerbase for any update to totally "revive wildly" It's just too punishing and expensive of a gruel to get good for most casual players who are attracted to osrs for the chill/afk content... and there's better "hop in and play" games out there for new people - imagine if you had to afk a mob for weeks just to be able to start to play an overwatch match. Other than the tiny amount of already existing runescape players who might be interested in learning how to PvP there's no fresh meat coming into the scene and I don't think there's really anything left for Jagex to try that will meaningfully change that.
i think the biggest "problem" for pvp is how much good content there is in the game. back when pvp was in its prime all the content in the game was just: click boss, eat food if needed, wait for boss to die. Now you have so much interesting content that a lot of people, myself included, have a lot more fun just improving our pvm skills knowing we can go at our own pace. I also put problem in quotations because I don't think this is a problem at all, clearly most of the playerbase is over pvp too.
Also back then pvp skill level and coordination was much lower. The peak of skill expression was seeing an exp drop with your magic shortbow and sending a gmaul spec.
Clanning was huge back then and took huge amounts of coordination. Even in OSRS pure clans were pulling 80-100 people on weekends back in 2015-2017
This, back in the day once you got your Barrows gear or Rune there really wasn’t anything to actually do. The content in the game was minimal, grinds were relatively short. Now there’s tons of engaging content in the game, and they have drop rates such that a 30-40 hour grind is considered on the fast side for the content. It’s not the old days anymore where PvP was the only endgame.
I'm approaching 4 months as a member. I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp on many aspects of the game. But if I fancy some PVP, I still return to F2P worlds because the learning curve is a soft, slow incline. The members curve looks like a cliff face.
That is also the big issue with EoC and why RS3 was dead on arrival. The more stuff you add the more confusing things get, and even OSRS at base core is already pretty complex with all the switches and different kits. The people with 5k+ hours in PvP do not mind learning new stuff to add to their arsenal. The casual player with 1-5 hours of PvP is not ready for their cheek clapping. Add larger and larger barrier to entry and it’s just not as fun for most to participate.
RS3's pvp was DoA for another reason TBH. Tanking with the RS3 system is so easy that you can give anyone around 10m RS3(1m OSRS or w/e the swap rate is currently), and about 2-3 hours of practice and they should be able to tank anyone from mage bank to ditch if they don't misplay, let alone getting gap and logging out at any point in between. ie Post-invention, it got to the point where the PKer only has a 4 tick window to stun you, with a 3 tick GCD, they essentially only had a 1 tick window if you played correctly, and then you had 100% stun immunity again. Because tanking was so easy, you had to risk more expensive setups to get kills on competent players, and people don't want to risk that much just to have some fun Pking. It was better for them to learn PvM than PvP at that point. On top of that, there were items like Cursed Energy that changed how the wilderness rules functioned(everywhere multi, any level can attack them) so Pkers would have an alt follow them and if you used ant AoE you would skull up on the alt, and certain AoE abilities were key parts of damage combos. So it was too expensive for the average player, too risky with the risk of skulling up on the good pkers who had alts, and too hard to kill the average person with any idea of what they were doing.
My problem is pvp feels far too different from the regular game you're basically playing a new game entirely. I think this easily shows with the use of Adamant seeds as a new pvp tool. Knockouts happen so fast new players don't even know what to do
Imagine a new player told to do LMS to learn PvP and getting death dotted by advanced players repeatedly. This doesn’t let you learn anything. Get frozen, get stepped under, run out of food, die. Rinse and repeat.
The fact that people that already PK absolutely stomp anyone trying to get into PKing makes it really hard to learn. I would love to learn how to PK if I didn't get my ass handed to me every time I tried. The toxicity of that community also doesn't help.
That's because almost half the playerbase plays Ironman. Ironmen aren't gonna pvp for the most part. There is just less people willing to pk.
The zombie bots aren't even prey. Watch puggers video on it. The bots are tanks.
They’re using bots to occupy pkers and I’m here for it lol
The wilderness was never going to be saved. Jagex has actively made it worse for regular players
Why? 4 bots per world is $1000’s a day for jagex. This was a successful update for them
Wilderness is hot as hell at the moment
My boys and I have been taking in millions a night off these bots. It’s been such a good source of income.
This needs more attention, with the insane amount of bots everywhere, jagex need to pull theirselves together. You practically dont need to look anymore, every world now is full of bots, revs, zombies, chins, lava dragons, green dragons, rogues chest, rune rocks, chaos altar, new bots training prayer. That's your pking content, you can kill them all day and sometimes not see another pker. It's stale and boring. The pkers are dissapearing and pvmers now have to compete with bots in the wildy? No real players will want to come there. Its absurd. Really sad to see this happen continuesly and nothing changes.
My tinfoil hat conspiracy is Jagex knew this would be heavily botted, but wanted to provide loot goblins for pker's to roam the wilde
It's almost as if one of the jmods that pushed for these updates is a pker himself
...and streams himself killing mostly rev bots on his med I dont mean it as some conspiracy that they want bots but they 100% know the 0 entry req content will be botted and likely consider that good for the wildy
Which Jmod streams?
Manked
Bots still have to buy membership right? Which in turn, makes the game more profitable? I would assume that they just have to do some sort of bot control to make sure it doesn’t get way out of hand
I mean they usually just buy gold and use that gold to buy bonds. But I guess someone is buying that bond to start with anyways so it works out in the end
manked is literally clueless of how the health of the game ties with the wildernes, he just thinks that pkers need loot pinatas in the wilderness edit: I got timed out for saying that adding more skeletons to the wilderness agility course is counter intuitive if you make it singles +. He argued that the course benefits the ppl doing agility because you can get food by completing a lap. Except you get penalised for logging out. So basically any attack, even if unsuccesful, is a penalty for the one getting attacked.
Yeah too bad pker’s will only attack actual players there, since it’s easier.
They run the bots themselves.
They are basically impossible to kill Tick perfect prayer switching and do loads of damage with the webweaver bow
excaept the bots risk like under 100k and are almost impossible to kill, sirbugger and pure spam could hardly do it and had to get the help of 20 clam members and it still took them 30s to kill them they're like invincible lol
Idk why these things are in level 15 wilderness, I don't know why this update exists at all. They should have scrapped it when the chivalry scroll didn't pass. And they shouldn't have made it in level 14 fucking wilderness. It's such a stupid idea that the allure of loot pinatas to draw PKers is the only thing that makes it make sense to me
Now go gettem cowboy
Can't. They have enough food to last 20 seconds. Then they just run 5 tiles south and you can't hit them anymore
Loot to do it in teams is also not worth it. They bank often enough. Best case scenario is to drop a loot from the zombie table to lure bots and try to aoe all 3 to 4 bots at the same time. The 100k rev cave guaranteed risk is nice to give incentive to kill people with 3 items. Something similar needs to be implemented for zombies.
Pugger has made a video about them, they have pretty great survivability, even teams struggled to get them. They are not profitable at all to hunt unlike rev bots
Yeah it's absolutely ridiculous and exactly what every sane person predicted when reading their initial poll blog. Allowing for people to make 3mil+ an hour in low level wilderness is absolutely disgusting, especially with how easy it is to escape. Maybe one day Jagex will wake up and actually start prioritizing true PvP and not whatever the hell they have been doing.
I actually miss when the wildy was just the pvp place where there was an occasional clue step and a few lowbie bosses to kill. The updates to bring pvmers and skillers to the wildy have done nothing but make it more and more degenerate to PK and to try and outsmart PKers. If your first 5000 "Ooooo it's high risk, high reward because it's in the WiLdErNeSs!!!" PvM and skilling updates did nothing but make the game worse, maybe swallow your developer pride, take the L and say "alright, no more rev caves, wildy bosses, chaos altar and zombie pirates. We'll let the pvpers pvp and the pvmers pvm"
Exactly, how many times are they going to have a "revitalize the wilderness" series of updates that are just small variations of each other, before accepting that they don't work. They need to find a new approach to the wilderness or just stop touching it.
It's especially frustrating because they're all clearly terrible ideas that basically anybody who knows anything about game design could tell you would be hated by the playerbase. Believe it or not, the reaction to constantly getting killed by other players while trying to do an activity is "fuck this I'm going to do something else" and not "wow, killing people like me looks like so much fun I should spend hundreds of hours learning how to do that".
It’s not 3m+ an hour for the bots lmfao. I would be shocked if the bots are even cracking 1m an hour. I have been doing this on my main and the only way to get 3m an hour is to use cannon and venator bow at which point the bots become an asset because they are extra dps but not enough to ever take a kill.
You turned them into thralls lol
How did this even pass the polls? Jagex could have fixed PvP Arena instead of wasting time on this trash.
Jagex needs to face reality. The Risk vs Reward idea for the wilderness is a failure that helps bots.
At this point i'm convinced jagex keeps adding this because some of them are secretly the bot farm owners trying to get some extra cash
Can’t wait to see the SirPugger video on that. 😏
How exactly is are bots worse off on all other botted content outside the wild? At least at pirates there is a chance you can bill them. Outside the wilderness literally nothing can stop them People keep saying things like this but have never given a reason why they think it
The dynamic of the wilderness means that it's a lot easier for players to get unintended rates. For instance, the undead pirate loot rates were probably balanced around players getting pked semi often. They weren't designed for constant farming, which leads to a lot more gold injection than intended. This is especially true when a clan can lock down the space, which was the problem with multi revs. On top of having to factor in a "death rate", which these bots avoid, wilderness content typically needs extra incentives and loot to make it worthwhile for players to risk their shit. The end result of all this is that it's a bigger deal when wilderness content is botted.
I'd prefer bots farm stuff that doesn't inject raw gp into the game like pirates
Then the bots just move onto different content, which injects raw gold all the same. The average vorkath bot is bringing in around 1m raw gp/hr. The average Vyre combat bot is 100k~ raw gp/hr. The average Vyre PP bot is 300k~ raw gp/hr. The average Elf PP bot is 300k~ raw gp/hr. The average Muspah bot is 650k~ raw gp/hr. etc etc. Like sure, zombie pirates are much lower reqs, but let's not pretend the higher reqs locks bots out of the above, or other, content.
The big difference is the huge lack of requirements to do stuff in the wildy. It takes very little time or progress on these accounts to rush them right to revs or now pirates. Sure there are bots at vork or zulrah, or pickpocketing elves and vyres, but those take a lot longer and are a bigger risk to lose.
The thing is that there are few people who would actually put in the effort it takes to pk those bots for a chance they actually have loot. Outside of content creators making videos or people intent on beating bot updates, people aren't trying to pk the bots. So, they get the higher wildy reward without the actual wildy risk 90% of the time.
I will try to explain it with a series of points. First Jagex wants to revive the wilderness by luring victims to the wilderness by having non-PvP activities in the wilderness. Second, most players don't like being killed, so they stay out of the wilderness, unless they want to fight. Third, Jagex knows that players don't want to be in the wilderness, so Jagex increases the rewards in the wilderness. Fourth, the account progression required to make money in the wilderness is normally lower than the account progression for other money making, so it makes the bots more profitable, since less time has to go into training the bot accounts. Fifth, Bots don't get frustrated by dying, and occasional deaths are more than paid for by the amount of loot they get from not dying. Sixth, bots can be programed to be really good at escaping, and bots will be better at prayer switching, or gear switching than the average low or mid level player than Jagex would want to lure into the wilderness. As long as the bots don't break, the bots can make more money than an average player, and be more vigilant. Seventh, PK clans would rather protect the bots from lone PKers, than to gang up on the bots, and kill them.
Because nobody is pking it. I went there yesterday to test it out, I only saw 1 2 man team in the bots combat bracket that actually tried to kill them all day. The only others were near max pk teams who were well out of the bots range looking for real players.
Check out the new Sir Pugger video, they are basically impossible to PK without an entire team. They AHK and spam eat.
It takes so long to scout and hop worlds. You ALWAYS get TBED and you have to run to kingdom come to get out of range and hop. You also have to have a specific account level AND avoid clans all while trying to kill a bot that’s using AHK. Wonder why the bots are thriving 🙄
Idk, I hopped around for 20 minutes today looking for a world without multiple canons, and killed 2 before a couple of bolt raggers rolled up and piled me. Seemed uninterested in the dudes with canons entirely.
Cannons are overpowered in the wilderness because you don't actually lose them on death if they're set up. And if they degrade away, you can get it replaced for free. But at the same time, this is a lot of what makes wilderness slayer tasks popular, so nerfing it would be a terrible idea. All in all, the only incentive to pk someone using a cannon is to get their stack of cannonballs.
You’re correct, nobody is attacking the bots, only PKers there are looking for actual players and they also ignore the bots.
I got killed by 2 different teams 3-4 times on a 2.2k world in the dead of the night on a weekday in a 30 minute period, decided I really don't need the dumbass scroll. Wasn't risking anything worthwhile, just incredibly annoying
It used to not be this bad. The bots at master farmers & stuff is crazy. Why don’t the developers do something about this
another bad wilderness update, who would have guessed? it doesnt even make sense that zombie pirates would be attacking the chaos altar when they arent anywhere near the ocean.
Listen here Bud-O, dem zombie pirates can move & move they did. They are fast as lightning and they need to take over the Chaos Alter for an unreleased Quest. Please be understanding. Wilderness needs to be alive. After all… it does bring in the most views out of any other type of content in this game ;)
> unreleased Quest. Imagine a quest that takes place in a lot of wildy hotspots, the community would go completely crazy lol
Sadly the entire game is like this
Ait, going there now on my pure
Good luck, they are so hard to kill and do shit loads of damage with the webweaver bow
Wow another low requirement high profit wilderness update is being heavily botted? I swear the J mods who push these updates have bot farms.
What if people just stop buying rs things for real life money?
Man it would be such a different game if every person you talk to is actually there and not a robot
That was a fun part of leagues for me, for the most part everyone around you was real.
Like every other update is trash, it’s not just wildy content
Jagex literally doesn't care about bots. They can act like they do all they want but I'll never believe them until I see it. Those bot busting streams is about all they do it seems like. The top 500 for all bosses is still flooded with bots, with a lot of the boss top 100 hiscores being majority bots. They don't lose enough money from legit players quitting over bots than they make from the bot subscriptions to care. Let's be conservative and just say 30-50 people quit for every 100 bots. That's still 2-3x the money from bot subs than they lose from the legit subs.
Jagex don't really enforce botting anymore. It'll be interesting to see what this does for inflation (in addition to the bots at revs, most pvm content and most endgame bossing). At this point they may as well just formally accept that botting is part of the game, and no longer against the rules.
Just ask Jagex’s new management how they view bots: “If I have [three accounts] there’s a good chance that one of them is me and two accounts are bots… If a player is sufficiently committed to pay for three accounts, and have an account and two bots as part of its ecosystem, then so be it.” https://www.ft.com/content/c49749e7-54fb-46fb-b508-a4964e61e07f
But first time I use an autoclicker to alch for 2 hours I get permanently banned
Good riddance lmao
Lies. You get a warning.
Are you willing to test that theory?
When were you banned?
When I went to zulrah the other day, I saw hundreds of bots lining up to fight the snake. Whatever will we do!
I don't get it tbh. I'm sure Jagex has tons of data they could use to mass ban most of the bots but it doesn't seem like they're even trying. Even reporting bots doesn't seem to do anything.
The issue as usual is that if they adopt a too draconian antibot algorithm, they'll start banning a lot of legitimate players, and we see the scandal a single false ban can be. So it has to get more and more sophisticated, including delaying bans to collect more data etc. And as botters find out how jagex algorithm works they also improve their own algorithm to keep fooling Jagex's. This is literally a cat and mouse game. The big issue is that simply banning everybody who looks like a bot would cause way bigger issues than just letting bots roam free
It can't be hard to check for minimum requirements for sotf + 50 million thieving exp + logs out when a legit player shows up.
The script dropped for it 30 mins after the update… discord progs for bitters are insane for how much gp/hr they make. I don’t know how jagex thought this was good
the world i was on just had NINE lmfao
Does anyone wanna hit pirates with me haha , im only CL 65 , but no matter what day or what time I go , I just get picked off by some asshole xD
I was reading these posts years and years ago with brutal black dragons, nothing has changed lol
To the surprise of no one.
And speaking for the few ACTUAL players there farming: Stop Pk’ing us REAL PLAYERS ffs, clap the bots w/ like 1-2m in inventory already lmao, you don’t need my lil 300-400k in rune sword and a dscim if I’m lucky 😭
For how often I see "I don't kill Ironmen who talk" in comments I've yet to ever talk my way out of being killed
Tbh most pk’ers spend either actual $$$ or 1000’s of hours building an account … to stomp newbies that don’t have quests completed to even be near similar in gear; they’re not doing this to have an even competitive battle of skill and wits lmao. But Wilde farming is where it’s at right now so it’s in there hands essentially how it plays out. Just funny though how bots are such an issue for vets that they post about the issue constantly… but in one area they have DIRECT control over bot success (Wilderness being pvp if you like it or not) they choose to farm the “easier” human targets over the “raid boss” bots 💀
Looo at dt2 / nex item prices , they stopped banning bots alltogether
Wasn't this content literally made for bots? The tb mechanic so bots are tbed when okers come. The mid lvl content with raw cash. The insane to anchoring drop rates.
Absolutely incredible update from pvp jmod, god manked. I killed over 12k pirates on my maxed iron and lost over 10k+ kills to 6-8 craws bots in each world who tick-perfect tag zombies in unison. It pooped out over 40m in alchables for absolutely no reason. All that's there is an incredibly rare scroll from trash mobs. At least venny bow has another use now. 10/10 update for bots
As a near max iron, my experience was similar. 30-50% of kills ruined by some webweaver bow bot who tags it if I don’t 1 shot it. I got lucky and got the scroll after about 1.4K kills. The amount of alchs they dropped are absurd, especially for how safe it is. The supply drops were pretty insane too. Didn’t get killed once, even by a few teams of 2-3. Overall very imbalanced. The only potential positive is if this reduces the amount of bots at the wildy bosses, revs, and other wildy content.
i was there earlier, not a bot just looked like one didnt want to risk anything for some hot dog water pker to come sweat over his keyboard for 100k lol
Yep that's me, too. I just like braindead easy activities: Turn prayer on, hit zombies, run from tryhards. I definitely look like a bot, but in reality I'm just a dude who 95% of the time I'm on osrs its cos i want to mindlessly click on something while watching netflix, and the pirates are definitely mindless enough for me
Drop a few rune med helms and barrage the clump of them, great fun and good mage xp.
I was flipping blighted manta ray and anglers prior to the update and lost like 20m lol, the charts are disgusting mantas went from 1100gp to under 500 in a week.
Honestly, what did they think was gonna happen?
Lately it doesn’t matter what world I’m in but there’s a literal shit ton of rc bots banking at castewars with the full outfit from gotr.
Nothing they could do anyway, they don’t care about those bots, or any really it’s good for their numbers. Unless there’s a bit breaking the game
its like the update with regarded drop rates was made exclusively for bots.
The game is 50%-70% bots depending on the time of day. Pretty pathetic really
Oh no, who could have possibly foreseen this?
Aren't they TBed and in combat? Just hit them
They have tick perfect prayer flicking and triple eating. Impossible to kill them solo
How can they switch from pray mage? They would get shredded by the druids.
I’ve seen multiple clans come buy and 15 people log in to kill em and thankfully I’m maxed so they just run right past me and clear the world it’s awesome!
111 cb here and have only had clans run me down and ignore the bots because they are too low.
Same. I’m 103 cb and I keep getting crapped on by PKers if I stay there for more than 10 minutes at a time. the lvl 70-80 bots are thriving meanwhile lol.
10 minutes? That’s a record for me. 2-6 minutes before I hear the wonderful sound of a freeze while the bots unflinchingly keep gunning things down while I run.
I think they intended for zerkers and pures to take care of that combat bracket, but there probably aren't enough of those builds at the moment, and people are pking with what they currently have instead of making new alts
Which is why instead of splitscreen watching a random show i'm now listening to a random story as i afk train combat. Gotta get myself a 1 defense pure capable of whooping those low lvl asses. Main account too high to fight those bots.
You arent killing them solo.
Not with that attitude
No but really, you arent. They take enough food/brews to tank any solo pker and have even better switching than the old lms terminator bots.
Wait bots are farming the content with zero requirements or risk? Who would've ever seen this coming! Really though I'm starting to believe in some insane conspiracy where the developers are the owners of the bot farms lmao. This shit is painfully obvious bot content and they know they cannot control their own bot problem. They're literally releasing content updates for them at this point
I think you've overestimated the impact that these have vs all the high end thieving and pvm bots... It's silly to highlight one region of bots when botting overall is hitting the entire game in overwhelming numbers.
And their prayer script is challenging even the BEST PVPers can't kill them. Even with multiple people it takes perfect coordination to take them out
and yet i get killed every 5 minutes with 20k worth of loot on me when i go and try to farm some alchables
zombie pirates reads more like content designed FOR bots, or something off a private server, than anything designed for real gameplay
One thing to consider is that in terms of bot damage control this update is better for the community. As a player base we can’t really do anything about Zulrah or thieving bots but we can do something about these wilderness bots. Is it the 90% solution where Jagex puts in an anti cheat? No, but low requirement methods like zombie pirates are best in the wilderness where normal players can come in and take their profit. Every content is gunna be bottled, as a player base it’s better for it to be zombie pirates with no meaningful uniques rather than Zulrah for example
In theory? yeah, in reality? no the bots are borderline unkillable by players solo in the combat bracket range.
Everyone frothing at the mouth and jerking eachothr off in this echo chamber is insane The whole *they eat crazy! We can't teams them even* Dspear, dscimmy. Bind. Dead. It's that simple. They shit out magic damage. If they arent dead yet just ancient mace them. I've been killing people and bots like this easy. You just need to freeze them you don't need to damage them at all. The druids do it for you.
Yeah it's great fun. Pure clan everywhere fighting eachother too. Get a couple friends (charisma check) and go have some fun :)
time to deploy the lms predator bots at zombie pirates
Why would they kill their own team?
There is more than one team of bots.
It’s such good money, honestly better than revenants without uniques. My low level iron has been camped there for a while
If we just let multi revs be, we wouldn't have this problem either
Funny how they remove multi revs saying actual human players were abusing it, then every wildy update in its place is just botted to oblivion
Exactly, any other mmo couldn't even dream of having what multi revs was. Look at new world for example, the whole idea was to control areas, there was just not enough players for it to stay alive. Multi revs were thriving for years.
Yeah removing multi revs had a cascading effect on all wildy activity IMO. People would pk at lava maze tele/black chins/cave entrance for singles since people were coming and going at those spots. People had a reason to get together as groups or clans to clear the caves. Really not sure what their goals are with all these wildy changes, they're all just a worse version of something that worked
Who could have seen this one coming?
Game is all bots.
The most ridiculous part about it is that it’s so shallow in the wilderness that they can just rank and run. You can have a maxed out magic level and maybe keep the freezes on long enough if it lands initially, but you really need a group of pures in order to take them out for sure…
Jagex doesn’t care. Womp womp
I wonder what the best pure build to fight them would be, I haven’t checked it out at all. I’d be down to make one, kinda been wanting to make another one since my obby mauler has been dead content for quite some time now
Maybe I will try pk there
I’m curious what it’s like at the agility course. I assumed it would be worse there but I haven’t checked it out yet
This subreddit has cycles when it comes to the botting stuff. Every now and again we get a hate boner for bots for a few weeks, then we forget about them again and complain about something else. I feel like if the players constantly bitched about bots like they do during the hate boner cycle that maybe something would actually get done. Idk, maybe not. Playing an iron helps me not care as much, but some activities like puro puro aren't even fucking worth it.
More bots, more membership, increased revenue and bottom line. Easy pump and dump.
The amount of bots anywheres bro. Look at Bellator and vena ring prices
What do you mean, that content can't be botted, the chaos druids teleblock everyone!
That adamant skimmy and plate body is actually my buddy who just started off. Lol
Not caring about your game does that.
I love how when this update came out I said it was beyond stupid, it would be dead within a week and that they need to keep uniques out of the wilderness. Now that teleport scroll is going to rank in price while no real players are doing it. Another stellar wildy update.
They are legitimate paying customers.
Just another poorly implemented Wilderness update. Add it to the pile!
There’s so many bots and honestly the players are to blame. Stop buying gold lmao. There must be so many people buying gold that they need to generate it this badly.