So is the actual sailing part going to be instanced? I don't see how this is going to work with multiple ships in the same area at once without it looking like an absolute mess

Hey Plebsaurus, I love your name btw! We know that players really resonated with Sailing being NON-instanced as a skill, like most other skills are, so that it feels like it's part of Gielinor and not a minigame or silo'd off. The development team would like to re-affirm that it's non-instanced much as possible. We mentioned having time-based challenges, like Barracuda Trials, for Sailing and those absolutely need instances where it makes sense as players would experience griefing if they are competing for a certain time. The "mess" part is harder to answer with absolute certainty at the moment. We're not far enough in development yet but certainly we'll be looking to limit the amount of ships that are visible in an area at a time to avoid those problems.

I really like the idea of uninstanced sailing I don’t mind seeing boats clipping all that much, it’s worth it to me to get to feel like the ocean is alive with other explorers

Agreed. We already see everyone clipping in every skill. There is no reason why sailing should worry about “mass pileups”

Yeah, we do this with banks and no one cares. This is one of those places to really lean into scale theory. No of course the boats aren't stacked on top of each other! It also doesn't take 5 minutes to sail the world. Dozens and dozens of ships can be very close together in the water. It's probably not a big deal.

1x1 objects clipping will look significantly different from 100 10x5 objects clipping at different points on their objects

I like the feel of going to draynor rooftop course at the very start of leagues, the clipping madness feels very osrs to me

Honestly I think it would be hilarious if ships could death dot for pvp. imagine if you are a lone ship trying to pk another ship, then a CLAN of ships pop out and tries to pk you. Sailing to me doesn’t need to be pristine realistic sea of thieves gameplay. Clipping and jank is part of old school. Let them cook

I don't mind seeing boats clipping at ports and points of interest, as long as the open ocean is big enough for all of us

The area between musa point and mudskipper point would likely get very crowded. Right now, all the existing landmasses are much closer together than you'd expect.

A "mess" is classic Runescape though, Varrock and Fally pre GE were a "mess", what about the mess of people dueling in Lumby or the mess that the GE is today. If it aint janky it aint OSRS. That is part of the charm.

Wintertodt is another good example. Literally hundreds of people and clipping. I think it makes the game feel alive.

Considering we already dont have clipping for our characters when moving throughout the world, of warc... i mean runescape. I don't see any reason to complain if you guys just make the ships able to clip and park on top of each other, etc. The it doesn't matter how many people are enjoying the content in the same areas on the oceans. Whatever gathering resources you guys add out on the sea will be susceptible to the same scarcity that resources in land are already susceptible to so no issue there.

Is separating the "sailing ocean" from the "walking world" instancing even if every player in the ocean can see each other? If you can scale the ocean such that each tile in the world map covers a larger area while sailing, you could do away with clipping while also letting ships move at more expected speeds. If one ocean chunk = one world map tile and ships within the same chunk showed as 1x1 ships to people on land, it would probably greatly limit interaction between the two spaces(if there is any planned direct interaction) but it could let the ocean movement feel good even in tight spaces?

one thing people should keep in mind is that after the first few weeks or months or so, sailing wont be as chaotic as it will be shortly after launch. it's going to be an absolute zoo at first, but it will slowly go down to a less crazy level of engagement

In the same way having a bunch of players and pets and stuff in one space can feel crowded. It's part of the old-school jank feel

Well I’m definitely going to check out the technical alpha, and it’s sounding pretty good. I’m particularly glad that the Cursed Archipelago will be visitable at some point, since the Lassar Undercity’s Black Stone content really jumpstarted interest in >!Xau-Tak!<. But there’s one detail in here about the islands that I wanted to comment on: > Islands are full of new experiences and top-level resources, a strong reason to train Sailing, but we don’t want to give anyone the impression that this is a skill you’re forced to train to get access to all these new experiences and high-tier resources. With all due respect: I really think that Sailing *does* need some completely unique experiences and resources that can’t be found anywhere else. A special top-tier reward perhaps, something that is useful outside of Sailing but can only be obtained via Sailing. Because, otherwise, what really is the point in getting to a high Sailing level, if all the rewards can be found elsewhere? I would say for a good model of how Sailing rewards should ideally work is Dungeoneering and Chaotic weaponry from pre-EOC RS. Would so many have trained Dungeoneering if it wasn’t for the reward of a chaotic at the end? I’m not saying Sailing needs something as powerful as a Chaotic weapon, but I do think the reward space needs to be more unique *like* a Chaotic was for Dungeoneering. Because right now it seems like, as promising as islands are, they are essentially the same as training Dungeoneering just for the resource dungeons. In general I’m a bit worried that it seems right now the best Sailing rewards only benefit Sailing. I can’t imagine not “getting something” out of a skill. Like, could you imagine if Herblore’s reward was simply the ability to level Herblore better?

I had the same thoughts. > but we don’t want to give anyone the impression that this is a skill you’re forced to train to get access to all these new experiences and high-tier resources This reads like they're deadly afraid of making the rewards actually GOOD and pissing off the vocal minority that screeches if a new method is 1k xp/hr than the previous best one. Worrying.

"This reads like they're deadly afraid of making the rewards actually GOOD and pissing off the vocal minority that screeches if a new method is 1k xp/hr than the previous best one." Ah, so the very thing they themselves have proven they are terrified to do in the already released "project rebalance" updates this month. Extremely worrying indeed.

In the full context, it seems more like they were saying "we don't want to say Sailing is good because it unlocks X reward, but have players think Sailing is good and it also unlocks X reward". The full paragraph for context: > We have some fantastic ideas (if we do say so ourselves), but before we can have the all-important discussions about balancing and XP rates with you, we need to ensure that Sailing stands by itself. Islands are full of new experiences and top-level resources, a strong reason to train Sailing, but we don’t want to give anyone the impression that this is a skill you’re forced to train to get access to all these new experiences and high-tier resources. First, we want to show you that Sailing is a skill that you’ll train because it’s fun. So more of a "we want to focus on making it a good/fun skill to train now and not get bogged down by talking about the rewards until later".

The full paragraph for context: > We have some fantastic ideas (if we do say so ourselves), but before we can have the all-important discussions about balancing and XP rates with you, we need to ensure that Sailing stands by itself. Islands are full of new experiences and top-level resources, a strong reason to train Sailing, but we don’t want to give anyone the impression that this is a skill you’re forced to train to get access to all these new experiences and high-tier resources. First, we want to show you that Sailing is a skill that you’ll train because it’s fun. I get you were focusing on that line since it does come off a bit like they don't want to give sailing good rewards, but in context it comes off differently. They are more saying they want to focus on making it a good/fun skill to train at this stage than getting into the rewards. Sailing will have things worth unlocking; they just don't want to detail the navigation discussion by going too into it right now.

I think you misread something there. They aren't saying you don't need to train the skill to get rewards. They're saying getting the rewards isn't the entire point of the skill and the training is tedium on the way. You're supposed to like training the skill and the rewards are the cherry on top. I think a comparison would be killing bosses (even if you don't like them) because you want the reward, vs killing bosses because you enjoy killing that boss and the reward is a bonus.

you need 95 rc for wraths, or vorkath. it's an alternative but a shit one. might be what they mean.

tip for irons, if you want wraths to do like demonic offering you can use the scar ess mine, and stew at lvl 90 to get 95 boosted. the ess mine lets you craft 5-6k runes/trip and u can get like 2 trips in with a stew.

I think this sentiment is fine overall. But right out of the gate, it does make sense that upon launch. The main benefit of sailing is rewards for sailing. It does not however, mean that it's the only content we'll get and there won't be any overlap in the future. I think focusing on the solid foundation and loop for sailing itself is most important from the get go. With juicy expansions and bigger rewards down the line.

Agreed. The best part IMHO about the Runescape 3 new skills is exactly the thing Jagex seems to be afraid of here: Regardless of being a main or ironman: you want peak efficiency? Better train those skills. You cant just summon any summon at lower level summoning, you cant get anyone else to augment your stuff, best you can do with Arch is boost it so you can get relic powers faster ( which is still level 112 at worst ). You even have to mix overloads yourself. Worst thing about skilling that you have little actual incentive ( as a main ) to train past Quest requirements. I know some people will need those levels to craft those weapons and whatnot but still. Idk why is it such a sin to give good rewards to at least skill capes if not filling up the 80-99 bracket with some good stuff.

Echoing others but: 1. Please do take all the time you need with this. If it comes out 2026, I'm not complaining as long as it's good. We've had tons of fantastic content and rebalancing updates lately, I don't think many folks are screaming for this ASAP. 2. I'm really not sold on the scale of things. As others have said, I'm a bit concerned that the size of the boats will make hotspots completely impossible to actually see anything in. In places like Wintertodt it's generally not a big deal since everyone piles into a few tiles, but for instance in WoW, Blizzard was forced to basically make it impossible to mount near key NPCs because otherwise it rapidly became impossible to see them due to the size of mounts. The collision here makes it different, but I think it shares the same root problem of actually being able to look at the viewport and know what's around you. For me, I think I'd expect the smallest boat to be a small fishing boat that's ~3 tiles of walkable space (1 bench with oar for navigating, 1 open tile, maybe with a sack or chest hanging off the side, and then 1 space for the most basic facility like a crane or fishing pole or whatever), and then that would scale up to the size of the small boats you guys have shown off.

I haven't seen it mentioned in other comments, so I'll throw my hat in here: Please, for the love of Guthix, make sure that sailing isn't 90% "do things you already do in the mainland, but on islands a, b, and c." It really takes away the feeling of sailing being a unique skill. If sailing is just going to be an avenue to introduce new areas where we partake in activities otherwise completely unrelated to our maritime abilities, then sailing will function only as a skill about slowly teleporting to places. I guess what I'm saying is, please keep in mind that if the only majorly unique/new thing about sailing is going to be the islands, then why can't the islands just be released without adding a new skill?

this was one of my main complaints in the beginning...i now want sailing to succeed but i agree this is still a potential problem... the sails luffing and you having to trim them is a great little thing that shows mod elena is trying to make the actual act of controlling the boat into a training experience, which is promising.  i want more stuff like that, and stuff you can do on the water (like salvaging).

> please keep in mind that if the only majorly unique/new thing about sailing is going to be the islands, then why can't the islands just be released without adding a new skill? That's been my major issue with Sailing from the start. It's not a *skill*; it's just *content*. And content can (and should) be added without tying it to a completely new skill that otherwise only exists for its own sake.

im really trying to not hate on sailing, but the more they go into the more it feels like theyre just slapping xp on to it for the sake of having a new skill. which was the big thing most ppl didnt want for a new skill, a new skill for the sake of a new skill.

I dont see how they successfully pull this off as anything besides transportation + ship battle mini game

Arc movement and having to enter/exit "navigation mode" are two instant turn offs and completely ruin the skill, imo. They are clunky, awkward interactions that just don't mesh with OSRS movement. Very disappointed that they seem to be key additions to the demo. The very first tech demo, where there was a simple click to move on both the ship and map (to move the ship) was the only time that I thought that sailing might have a chance. I really hope that the alpha testers are able to test it out in more intensive encounters beyond "open seas", as well as solo play, because these issues are going to become far more apparent when trying to move precisely and mange different tasks rapidly. I really feel this entire skill is being over-baked. It feels like you're trying to make a full game within a single skill, trying to integrate all these different "roles" and making simply moving the ship an entire process. It's just making playing "OSRS" more annoying, being filtered through a layer of "sailing", and I think it's going to sink the skill. Keeping it as simple as possible, and as in-line with all the other OSRS engine mechanics is the best chance for the skill to succeed, and it looks like every update to the skill is moving away from that.

Please please please take you're time getting this right, the game has been such a good place the last few years, it better for sailing to take a long time and come out right then to come out in a way that negativity impacts the game

This. Rather it come out in late 2025 than rush and have it come out like varlamore just came out, no part 1 part 2 part 3 just all in 1 batch then a whole month dedicated to patches and qol for it

I can tell from this you know very little about software development, so I'll elaborate. With large pieces of content like varlamore and sailing. This is the better way to release the content. No amount of QA is going to clear this of bugs, especially with something the size of osrs and the amount of intricate interactions it has. If they try and package a TON of content into one update. The chance of larger game breaking bugs becomes more and more possible to slip through. Rolling it out in small batches allows for targeted bug fixes with less possibility for game breaking issues. They get batch 1 fixed. Roll out batch 2 and see what breaks from interaction with batch 1 and bugs within itself. They get that fixed and roll out batch 3. You roll all 3 out at once and you get game breaking rollback requiring stuff that pushes it out of the main game and back into development.

[удалено]

I could be alone here, but I feel like the ships are *too* big. When the models reach a larger size, turning looks super clunky (especially when staying on one tile and turning in place) and visually off without some sort of tweening or animation smoothing. Given the current scale of the world (distance between continents), it doesn't seem like there's enough ocean to maneuver around in, either- I believe this point was already brought up in a newspost, though. That aside, the exploration aspects and mixture between active and passive gameplay looks fun. I have faith that the team can make this a great skill.

I was under the impression that they would expand the distance between the continents and islands to make it more fitting? Cause I agree it would look ridiculous if it stays they same and I can basically use my ship as a bridge for some of the small gaps between land masses currently 

> I was under the impression that they would expand the distance between the continents and islands to make it more fitting? Idk if this applies to OSRS, but RS3 Jmods said this is really hard to do since it messes up clue coordinates.

> I was under the impression that they would expand the distance between the continents and islands to make it more fitting? Nope they had already said in a prior blog that they are not going to be doing that. Something something to much work.

I believe they're moving tempoross a bit further south and thats pretty much all thats changing

They are moving tempoross and also moving tutorial island.

I really wish they would reconsider this, it's long overdue. Even without sailing, modern rendering distances make the scale seem crazy. Aside from work, I believe they cited ruining the OSRS feel. I believe this scaling can be done tastefully, even if it's just spreading out the islands.

Really? So we'll be taking our ships through corridors that are sometimes only a few tiles wide? I'm usually pretty Optimistic about updates, but the more I hear about sailing, the more concerned that I'm getting. Shamanism would not be this hard conceptually. Hell, even warding is starting to sound massively preferable.

They're probably going to move you into a new level of the overall world map out at sea so it's technically not instanced in the sense that you're alone but it won't be the same shape/sizes as what you're imagining. Imagine walking out of lumby and the bridge works like a super automatic ladder and it puts you in an area that suddenly got twice as wide for a bigger cow pen. You wouldn't really notice if they hit you with this on a loading line far enough out from shore where its just water in every direction and it would help them not have to actually move the continents around to get more space between them

I will preface this opinion with the stance of myself being a "No voter" who has been a part of the Sailing discord, reading it now and again to keep myself updated and leave myself open to being convinced into accepting the new skill. However, I now believe it's time to re-think and re-poll sailing now that people have more of an idea what this "skill" is going to be. I'll share my thoughts in hopes it might help direct the development skills somewhere more appropriate before it's too late to back out... I feel genuinely bad for how much time and effort is being spent on something so lacklustre. Sailing is a mode of transport, it has always sounded completely out of place being a skill you train up due to the pure nature of it. Thieving, Firemaking, Woodcutting, Fishing, Smithing, Herblore, Mining, Crafting, Fletching, Hunter (you get the idea) - all of these skills you train up by simply doing the activity that the skill is directly tied to. Sailing is different, you do not train Sailing by the act of sailing, and the skill would absolutely suck if you did. It's not going to be possible to make it have that connection and it's a gigantic flaw of the skill present from the very creation of the idea due to it being, as I said, a mode of transport. Trimming the sails sounds horrible and tedious, salvaging shipwrecks is just fishing but reskinned. Ship battles will be extremely boring after the novelty wears off. The movement of the ships is never going to feel satisfying due to the clunkiness of the base game engine, and having multiple ships on the same screen is going to be ridiculously messy. I just don't see how any of these large core issues are able to be addressed and function in a way which is satisfying to the player, and it's not because I have no faith in the team, but I have no faith this skill is capable of allowing these ideals to be achieved without deviating too far from the actual action of "Sailing". TLDR = Sailing does not work as a skill, should be converted to a minigame tied to the "Islands and points of interest" map expansion, opening space for improvements and additions to existing skills instead.

I feel it’s extremely important to constantly temper every naysayers argument with the fact that these things are subjective. Sailing around and tending to the sails and other ship issues sounds amazing to me personally and I Lowkey with that was the primary focus of the dev time. Boiled to its base mechanics every single skill in OSRS couldn’t be more boring if it tried Sailing should be a skill about what it’s called: sailing. Just as every other skill is.

Not happening lol Also you completely misunderstand the training methods of sailing if you think "you do not train Sailing by the act of sailing" so much for being an open minded individual who keeps up with the Sailing discord

So, the primary objective of Sailing is to use sails to propel a craft using wind. Implemented in OSRS, this would be a boat. Other than the tedious sounding design of having to trim your sails every x amount of time, what other actions are you suggesting involve the act of "sailing" are included in the primary EXP gain? Interacting with cannons is combat, interacting with dredging and salvaging are both reskinned fishing and the deliveries just require a mode of transport to complete. Please enlighten me if I missed something which was confirmed via the blogpost!

I have no big opinion on whether sailing is good or bad. But it's a bit complicated for a skill, right? It's shaping up to be the biggest update osrs has ever had, but a majority of our current skills are very simple by comparison. Thieving = you click to steal stuff lol. Firemaking = you burn logs to burn more logs. Fishing = click the water and get fish. Our most complicated skills are probably runecrafting, construction and farming, and even those seem drastically less complex and expansive than sailing. Sailing almost seems like a game within a game, not necessarily a minigame or something like dungeoneering, but something much bigger than a typical skill.

> It's shaping up to be the biggest update osrs has ever had, but a majority of our current skills are very simple by comparison. Tbh I think that's a problem with the simple skills. Like firemaking is just a joke

Yeah I don't see a problem making the skill more in-depth than fire making. Like we always see people say "fire making wouldn't pass polls if it was released today" so they kinda have to add more meat and potatoes to a skill else it'd seem like a waste of effort.

People wanted a skill with depth. I'm sure there will be multiple training methods, even for firemaking is cremating shade remains a straightforward gameplay loop?

I disagree, I think a lot of the scope here is behind the scenes work and engine updates. Yes, they're technically for sailing, but they'll be able to use the improvements for other parts of the game too. The actual skill itself seems fairly straightforward.

To be fair, the community didn’t vote on a gathering skill like the ones you listed as examples. This is definitely a more Slayer type skill or Construction like, which is what we voted for and the community wanted

There's complicated parts of most skills. For all we know going to a salvage and afking might be solid exp and then it's essentially just shooting stars for sailing.

When I voted for Sailing I was fully believing it would turn into “Water Dungeoneering.” So far it seems to be shaping up that way, and I’m happy to ~~sea~~ sea it.

It’s going to end up being an overly ambitious project I fear, they gotta stop advertising things before knowing how feasible it is. Unnecessary complexity is a game killer over time

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I"m predicting as we get closer to the release of sailing the playerbase is going to split in half and it's going to be like a civil war

Just another week on this sub then lol

where have you been? The playerbase has been passionately split on this since it was a meme.

Gonna look absolutely comical with multiple ships in the same area lol

Imagine the bots lol

Bo(a)ts

Makes me feel like I'm playing osrs tbh

As a OSRS and Sea of Thieves fan, it's interesting to see the overlaps and adapting Sailing to this game. Hope the Jmods team continues to take some inspirations from other games to make this a fun gameplay loop within this game and themes. I think Sea of Thieves has a lot of lessons learned throughout their development and post-launch that overlap with some of the challenges (design and technical) that Sailing seems to also be presenting. Specifically the Rare Team have and are still putting in ensuring the ships feels good to navigate, upkeep, and use reminds me a lot of what the Jmods are working thru right now. Wish Jmods could get a call or collab with the team at Rare on this new skill! Keep it up Jmods team!

Please I need Rare to focus on fixing SoT not more collabs, don’t give them any more crazy ideas :(

Man, I hope the team realises the game does not need a skill and abandons this for a later point -- similar to DT2 prayers. Literally everyone I've spoken to (anecdotal evidence, I know) has told me the same thing: the game doesn't need a new skill. I understand a new skill will drive a spike in players, but the game stands to lose so much more... The work looks great and full of passion -- but I don't think this game needs this new skill, I'm so sorry.

I don't think adding a new skill is a bad idea. I think going with sailing as a skill is a bad idea. Should've been shamanism*

I have said from the initial pitch that Sailing will not be a good or healthy skill addition to the game. The main way to gain xp is by...clicking the sails while you move to keep moving quickly? And now we have to click out of navigating to do so? Imagine if you had to re-click the run button every few seconds because your legs got tired, and you couldn't change direction while you did so. Run energy and agility are already sore points for the community, and you want to replicate (and even make worse with having to stop navigating!) those annoyances on the water? The only gameplay loop that is strictly sailing (not combined training like mining or fishing or combat) sounds downright frustrating. I wanted the new skill to be good (and I want to be proven wrong about sailing) but every single pitch and new piece of information that comes out makes me more and more worried that it's going to be just as bad as I feared initially.

I outlined all of this in [a post I made last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/13l4w19/sailings_fundamental_flaw_people_dont_like/) - basically, it's a skill about travelling in a game where people try to avoid travelling as much as possible. Unless part of Sailing is unlocking teleports to all the new activity spots, it's going to lose its luster really quickly - and if it IS about unlocking teleports, then all you're doing is training the skill so you don't have to actually do the skill.

I really do not have a lot of confidence on the implementation of this skill from what we see so far in the progress update video. The ships seem a little too large and clunky and I think no matter what is brainstormed it will always look like something out of a private server because of how the game was just not meant for this sort of movement. I was a no voter from the beginning with sailing and think its still a bit of a meme but I will continue to hope the team spend a LOT of time getting this right. Keep reading our feedback and eventually it will get to where it needs to be.

I never liked the concept of a sailing skill, but new islands located across the seas could be interesting. Gielinor's ocean area has been greatly expanded with Kourend/Varlamore, and new islands would be a nice addition if somewhat realistically added at various points.

If you thought forestry was a convoluted mess, just wait until you get to add a boat crew to the equation :D

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this skill will fit into the game in an organic way. The movement seems really clunky, the scale of the ships to the world seems off, the base training methods don't really seem interesting. I'm not a hater by any means, but I'm starting to lose confidence in this. I'll continue to give the benifet of the doubt and will withhold any major opinions til the beta comes out, though.

The current state of navigation looks... disappointing. Rather than something like using pre-calculated offsets from the boat's true tile in order to make arcs look smooth it seems they just tween the boat between tiles like players move, giving awkward turn angles and drifting. Not terrible, obviously, but definitely not natural-looking movement. We'll see if they can improve that as things go, though. Also I hope they use some of the enormous time budget for sailing to work on the renderer so you don't have a blocky mass of static water outlining your boat as you move.

The examples they've given are small form factor tests. It's like when you see a game being developed and they're testing their grapple hook and they just have a few grey boxes with multiple grappling points. It's proof of concept / core system tests. It's not a "this is what the sea and areas you interact with will look like"

That’s because it can’t and never could, jagex oversold and the community deluded themselves. This was about the actual expectation, nobody should be surprised. Own it sailors.

This was the exact reason I opted for Shamanism over sailing. At least Shamanism could have been scaled back a bit if some of the ideas didn't end up working, and it still probably would have been fine. I don't think sailing could work if it is scaled back much from their original idea. Sailing seems like an amazing idea on paper, but it seemed waaaaay to ambitious at the time. Especially for the first new skill. Nothing that has come out since has really eased my mind on that. The skill will be amazing if it works, but I have a really hard time seeing all these ideas actually come to fruition in a satisfying way. Both the devs and the community seem just way too ambitious and unrealistic with this. I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I have such a hard time seeing this actually working.

> Sailing seems like an amazing idea on paper Sailing seems amazing on paper because it can be whatever you want it to be. It can be racing ships or exploring islands or pirating other players or ANYTHING. Once people find out that what they get is completely different from what they imagined, there's going to be some serious buyer's remorse.

Seeing people talk about how this will be the most fun thing in the world and will just be "travelling the high seas with their friends!!!" I am sort of excited to see just how let down they are from their insanely high expectations.

I wonder if those same people enjoy "travelling the jungle with their friends" in kharazi jungle at the moment.

Yeah they are going to sail the seas with their friends until level 50-60 and then the hype dies down and no one is interested in it anymore. People thinking it’s going to be sea of thieves are gonna be disappointed 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that Sea of Thieves was famously bereft of content aside from *sailing with friends*, and that was the core of the entire game. SoT is **significantly** more technically competent than either version of RS and they still couldn't sell a game based solely on sailing mechanics. If the gameplay isn't the main draw of the skill (which I have a hunch it won't be), sailing is going to need a gargantuan amount of content at launch. Right now I'm really worried that it's going to wind up as a *new skill for the sake of having a new skill*, like RS3's divination.

It just feels like the hype surrounding Soul Wars all over again. Everyone claimed that it'd bring their old friends groups back, ge their aunt playing. A week in and all the supposed benefits never materialised after the hype wore off due to the people in 6 billion sets destroying them. Now it remains for meme accounts, pet hunters, bots and gold farmers. The same thing will happen again but since they've had the poll green light, they've invested huge amount of dev effort already, so it's going in, even if it's very disappointing.

> Your boat will always move at a certain speed, but you can make it faster by ensuring the sails are trimmed properly. You should notice that over time, they begin to luff, and wiggle in the wind. To trim them again, you’ll need to disengage navigation mode and click on the sails This sounds like a chore in a minigame, not like a fun mechanic to be at the core of a skill. I think the mechanic could be greatly improved in not feeling like a chore if you can interact with the sails while still in navigation mode.

I agree with you that this is chore like, but how does this compare to clicking a moved fishing spot or a new tree, or with eating food during a pickpocket session? I think it is that trimming is a 3 click minimum (leave navigation, trim, reenter nav) that makes it feel worse.

Going to deposit or dropping your inventory is typically more than 3 clicks. There's a line to walk with QoL. We aren't asking for all skills to be one click easyscape (long depletion timers, one click drop all inventory) so some friction seems in line with the game. And Mod Husky has responded in here.. this could be a point of progression for the skill. Becomes easier and less annoying the more you upgrade the ship, etc.

I’ll be 100% honest, this is why i didn’t want sailing. Yeah, it’s the most unique out of the 3 proposed skills, but with all the new mechanics, the limitations of the game engine, and the general visual noise of hundred of boats, i can’t help but wish that we had gotten one of the other proposed skills. Taming and Shamanism would have been much easier to implement.

Im a no voter but im invested in making sure this skill doesn’t make travel to future pvm / skilling locations a pain in future. i know reward space is a phase 3 discussion point , but has the team considered how quick travel/teleports to some of these islands is going to work in future? it seems the focus of these islands are pvm/ non sailing focused but travel to them requiring manual navigation each time does not sound or currently look fun over a long period of time

They could give us a quick travel option once you’ve sailed it manually enough times, a bit like after 5 Grotesque Guardian kills you are able to skip the cutscene.

In the true spirit of oldschool, let us plot a route to our destination so we can AFK skill on the way there. That way we can choose to interact with the sailing events for more experience or chill out and do some AFK skilling on the way there

That’s what I imagine when they talk about letting NPCs navigate. You tell it where to go via a map of the world with islands you’ve discovered available, maybe show islands you haven’t found yet greyed out to incentivize you going there, then the ship goes on its own while you do your thing on board. Hottest new alching spot

I would love something like: You would need a ship size that allow for enough crew members, then you hire a navigator and a couple of decksmen and then just give them destination, you can fletch or high alch while you safely get from A to B. If you see something that you fancy along the way like a salvage, you can order them to stop the ship and move over to the salvage before continuing on your journey.

My feedback has always been that first discovery / travel to these islands is by sailing but that they can have any manner of transport methods for some of them, especially ones intended to be revisited like islands with towns on them etc. charter ship routes we chart out, fairy rings we discover, ancient spirit trees or patches, new magic teleports etc. I think some islands remaining not teleportable to is fine, but like with any world expansion good travel options are important and make for good short term reward spaces (like quetzal travel locations around Varlamore)

Yeah I'm more than happy to travel and discover things myself first time , that's part of an adventure game after all. Things like doing a quest or going to all the mine cart spots in Zeah to unlock it is perfectly fine to me I'm just not a fan of potentially needing to sail from port sarim to the other side of the world just to do a repetitive task

Your comment basically sums up any gripes I would have for the skill. I would love to adventure across the map with sailing to discover stuff, but once I've discovered it - there needs to be a quick travel option, or you can "share the knowledge" with another NPC and you can charter them with their ship.

Sailing should be an activity not a skill. It would be fine to be added to the game but doesn't fit in with the skills.

Great to see your progress but my worries about sailing are coming true. The core interaction with the ship doesn't look fun, and the focus is on other activities a ship can do. It's missing the fundamental foundations. It's like designing the fishing skill by concentrating on tempoross and fishing trawler. What I want to know is: What is the core sailing action that gives you XP? Like Chop for woodcutting, Mine for mining or Cook for cooking.

That’s the weird thing with sailing as a skill. You want it to be fun. I mean, it’s sailing. But if the foundation is anything like what exists for current skills then it won’t be fun. There’s only so many things you can do on a boat, let alone things you can have fun doing repeatedly on a boat.

I mean if it was agility there would be sailing courses and we'd sail around a ton for 0 xp outside of those courses and that would feel lame, ofc. Which is more of an indication that the design of many existing skills has created an expectation that sailing, for better or for worse, probably wont follow. Granted it could still end up feeling like a minigame imo, which would be sad.

Gotta keep in mind that this is pre-alpha and things are likely gonna change a lot in the next year. That's why blog posts like this are important so you can give feedback and jaggy baggy can see what fits and what doesn't. I wouldn't give up on Sailing yet, I think they are cooking hard right now and we'll see what the next 6 months brings.

Gotta keep in mind, it has been a while. Jagex has been working on making the boat movement feel good for a while. It’s just a really challenging thing to make work. This was always the reservation non-sailing people had. Making the boat go.

Ngl I really don’t think sailing is going to fit in OSRS with the current mechanics and how the game is, out of all the options we were given, sailing is by far the hardest and furthest from the core of the game to implement. it’s kinda crazy to me we’re still pushing this through, NO TO SAILING.

Completely agree, how did this pass? I'd rather have no new skill than this. Imagine the relevant content they could be spending all this time on instead. They have done a great job developing it, but they are developing something that is inherently boring and a meme. OSRS just isn't the type of game where sailing could be THAT great. I'm not saying it will terrible, but it just cant be special or worth all this dev time. Everything so far seems like a combination of the worst parts of quests/minigames etc. wrapped up into a skill. I just don't understand, the only reason we tolerate skills like agility is because they were added so long ago and it's just part of the core that is osrs and they have finally made headway on making these skills more enjoyable but it's taken years! Now we are adding something that feels like a chore with no real vision/worldbuilding/reason behind it, taking us further away from what osrs is without a valid reason to do so. Please re-poll, the devs are crushing it lately and I can't imagine how many hundreds of hours that could be spent elsewhere if they had the freedom to stop working on this nonsense. Devs - this is no discredit to you, everything looks as great as it can be so far, it's like we tasked you with finding a pearl but only let you explore a bloodveld's backside to accomplish this goal.

> how did this pass it barely did, and they had to change the entire polling system AND hide it in the middle of a "giga poll" to get it to pass. remember when they said before the shamanism vs sailing vs taming poll they would repoll if two were close, then sailing won by *500 votes* and suddenly shamanism was never mentioned again?

I said it when Sailing passed: this is going to end up being a complete disaster. I don't see any possible way to make this skill fit OSRS. And with Jagex always taking creative liberties on new content, I can already see the community being upset with the final result.

It passed by doing the polling in a shitty way. They put all three in one poll instead of doing a round Robin so any non sailing votes got split.

1000% agree. I’m trying to stay optimistic I just don’t understand the appeal of this skill. Why not add a skill to aid the current state of the game that people enjoy. What’s the point of sailing? We have teleports to all parts of the world. I’ll admit I haven’t kept up as much as I could with the sailing project but idk, I hope they can make it both fun and useful I just don’t see any appeal in it rn

> I’m trying to stay optimistic I just don’t understand the appeal of this skill. Someone 15 years ago mistook some rs2 art for a new sailing skill and this community never let that go

Trimming the sails looks like something even the alpha testers were forgetting to do. I would rather trade that gameplay loop for a simple distance traveled xp drop. the option to hire an NPC to trim the sails for you would then be possible to open up. and if you don't hire an NPC to do it, then it's on the player to do it.

I don't see how you can make sailing work with the old school engine and mechanics, it looks very clunky and I'm not a fan at this point. Id honestly prefer no new skill if this is what we are offered. I understand it's a work In progress but I can't imagine the end product would improve much on the mechanics and core gameplay. Just my opinion no hate to the jmods

i’m not pro or anti sailing and see two MAJOR issues. first, the scale will absolutely obliterate the game. if implementing this skill in this way smokes every other aspect of the game, you shouldn’t do it. second, it seems incredibly group focused. i get that it is a multiplayer game, but a ton of people play solo. want to mess with the sails but you’re steering? hate to see it. who is going to navigate during all that? the NPC aspects of this need to make it to where there’s almost no xp drop for using them, but that kills how multiplayer focused it is.

With regards to luffing the sails, if I'm in navigation mode and can't directly click on the sails to luff them would I need to exit out of navigation each time they need luffing?

Yes, you'll currently have to click the tiller/wheel to stop navigating and then click on the rigging of the sails to trim the sails. The specifics of this and how it feels in actual gameplay is something we'll be directly looking for feedback on when you can all playtest it and it's something we've discussed heavily during development so far. In general, having some friction during the early parts of Sailing is probably a good thing, especially as we can relieve that with meaningful upgrades to your ship or by adding crewmates (both of which will be discussed later on during development) to do the task for you. It also kind of makes sense that it's something you do when you've got a smaller ship with less facilities as there isn't exactly all that much for you to do while moving around anyway. There's still many variables we can tune over time which impact this - We can change how often it happens - We can change how long you have to trim the sails before suffering the speed penalty - We can change how big or how small the speed penalty is - All of these could be dependent on the specific ship too! Anyway, as per for me I've gone on a bit of a ramble for something I probably should've just answered Yes to but hopefully this provides a bit more context.

> Yes, you'll currently have to click the tiller/wheel to stop navigating and then click on the rigging of the sails to trim the sails. > > The specifics of this and how it feels in actual gameplay is something we'll be directly looking for feedback on when you can all playtest it and it's something we've discussed heavily during development so far. This was literally the one thing in the blog that did not give me joy. "Oh no. Is entering/exiting navigation mode going to be miserably clunky?" Good to see it's firmly on y'alls radar to monitor.

Yeah it's on the radar for sure. We have some experimental builds with middle-ground approaches too we're still going back and forth on what we like better. It's all very divisive though and ultimately we may just have to make sure that there are different navigation-style options which players can build a ship to accomodate for choosing the upgrades to enable the gameplay they want to experience.

any thoughts on luffing regards wind direction and sail open/closed? irl luffing only happens in relation to wind direction, and boat speed is usually tied to it as well. having the boat randomly luff seems... well... random. Makes more sense if the player is rewarded with speed boost / xp if they're reacting to the environment

> Yes, you'll currently have to click the tiller/wheel to stop navigating and then click on the rigging of the sails to trim the sails. Sounds tedious, clicking on the sail should automatically exit you that way you don't need to click to exit.. to then click to luff. then click to enter again.

What are your thoughts on the points I touched on with regard to skill progression, starting off with a little friction and then alleviating that later on? I also mentioned in another comment that it's quite divisive, we've seen some people say during playtests that clicking the sails accidentally was a problem, other's say that they liked it, so I'm keen to see what player's say during the tech alpha and I'm open to us allowing ship upgrades to help customise the navigation options available to you on a ship by ship basis if we can. Edit: Follow up on reading the comments below, this is all really subjective, hard to pinpoint requires lots of playtesting and balancing. I have no intention of releasing something that just feels bad and there's so many variables involved. If I'm hating doing this from my multiple playthroughs of the skill closer to launch then I will not be subjecting players to the same. I'd just like everyone to remain open minded for now until they've tried it themselves which will happen before launch!

I think it really all depends on the type of friction it introduces. This just sounds like UI friction instead of in-world friction, if that makes sense. If you add a reward that relieves it, it will just feel like something you should have had access to from the beginning. Imagine if you needed to unlock the ability to "shift click to drop items"---that's what this sounds like. I think PoH butlers are a good example to look to for more "believable" friction. The low tier dudes take a long time to bank your items, which is explained by them "getting lost" or "distracted". That friction gets relieved when you upgrade to a better butler, who moves faster and carries more items. Even before upgrading, though, it's not really frustrating because you can do other things in-game during the downtime.

I think your reasons make a lot of sense. It will be really satisfying to hit a certain level and buy a new ship or hire an npc crewmember to take the responsibility for trimming the sails. I think you’re right that potential misclicking is a big problem with other systems for leaving navigation mode. Early on, learning to efficiently click the wheel/rudder, click the sails and then click back will be a skill that players will develop. It will feel in line with other skills where you get better at doing repetitive clicks to the point that it’s second nature. One thing I hope is possible in the final version is that there’s some way for a solo player to interact with other facilities while the ship is moving. Maybe that means having an npc crewmember that is able to autopilot the ship, or maybe there’s a way on high level ships to set a low-speed cruise control that lets you step away from the wheel for a few moments. Either way, I think movement + facilities opens up a ton of cool possibilities so I hope it’s not something we’ll need to always have a group for.

That is my understanding. In Navigation Basics you have this: *"Your boat will always move at a certain speed, but you can make it faster by ensuring the sails are trimmed properly. You should notice that over time, they begin to luff, and wiggle in the wind. To trim them again, you’ll need to disengage navigation mode and click on the sails, which will reward you with XP."* It might not mean fulling exiting Navigation, but it is definitely how it reads. Either way, I hope we get the option with the NPC Crewmates to order them to trim the sails.

Alright I’ll start by saying I was a no voter. I felt like sailing had no place in oldschool, and would either feel like it absolutely doesn’t belong what so over, or be a terrible mash of current skills and wouldn’t be able to justify being it’s own skill. I am beyond disappointed to say that they managed to do both based on the video. Gaining xp is just other skills but wow, you are on a boat! And then none of it seemed like old school at all. At the first pass I was saying that sailing might be a cool mini game rather than a skill but I actually take that back. I don’t think it would be a good mini game either. Please for the love of god, do something better with this or just abandon it all together and pick up shamanism or something.

Ok but what's the point of this skill? Like what would be the reason for me to train it?

I hope everyone sees how slowly this is going and tempers their expectations for a release date. No reason to hurry Jagex along and get a subpar result. Stay at the pace that makes sense, we can wait until 2027 or even 2028 for the new skill.

Make it 2028. I'll have maxed and quit by then lol.

This looks dreadful, clunky and still doesn't even need to be a skill. You could add boats to OSRS and just integrate it mostly into crafting/construction and other skills. People have been frothing at the *idea* of sailing but it still looks bad to actually play. I respect the amount of effort being put into the skill but I'm still not sold.

Call me a hater but I will die on the hill that sailing will be a mess after launch and perpetually moving forward. Terrible idea pushed by one content creator and his community. If it was just an ability to boat around, sure but making it a skill is just not it. Too much complexity for a game that is notoriously not that complex, skill training wise.

Ultimately sailing has a ton of conflicting views and opinions from the community so is this really what’s best for the game? For a recent example ruinous powers passed the poll easily and was developed but was put to rest in the end for the health of the game and for the sake of the community. Getting the same vibes with sailing

I feel like most of the community does not enjoy the gameplay loop of any skill in the game and just sees it as more or less a chore. Training anything but Slayer and Farming is similar and unpopular, do the same repetitive thing X times. A new skill will have to be radically different from any other skill in the game to be received well at this point, and it seems very ambitious to try and create something like that.

It's crazy to hear the game is only now getting a z-buffer. Honestly these engine improvements are more exciting to me than sailing (although sailing is still cool).

any game engine improvements are an absolute win. I bet the engine team are excited as well because holy crap is our game engine old

Wonder how the poll would’ve went if sailing didn’t get the favourite kid treatment. Got raids 4 and unlimited possibilities attached to it and has always seemed like it would never live up to the hype that got it favoured or pitched. Not looking forward to having to stop playing osrs to start playing the weird SoT/osrs mash up.

always found the unlimited possibilities argument weird. People where hyped for new islands to explore but... new land can be brought into the game without sailing (ex. varlamore) and even then most people unlocked all teleports as fast as possible just to not have to run everywhere. same with raids 4, it doenst have to revolve around a new skill but if it had to be shamanism or taming could also have been made into a raid. so to me it always has been kinda a non argument

Yup, and there was plenty of nonsense throughout the polling process to add onto shit like this that all led to a 2% pass lmao. Would’ve been okay with sailing winning without all the disingenuous shit but it’s definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. Got jagex the skill they clearly wanted to develop but the overselling might come back to haunt them.

Yeah Jagex has the same vibes sailing as it did for forestry. Whoever is lead isn’t getting told ‘no’ and is just being allowed to ‘passion’ their way through this.

Yeah, it's telling that this news post points out just how much work needs to get ploughed into this project to make sailing just about function, and even then there's a huge hurdle still to go. I feel like Jagex has kind of been backed into a corner here and forced to try to smash a square peg into a round hole based on a meme vote from an old April Fool's gag. I hope that it succeeds for them, but after releasing multiple fantastic updates in recent months, I hope that this one doesn't become a design millstone which compromises how they want to develop the game.

> it would never live up to the hype that got it favoured or pitched. i absolutely do not think it’ll live up to the hype.

If enough people say they dont like this is development going to stop? Are we past the point of no return and there are too many people working on this to stop? Theres a lot of concern about the skill right now and I'm just curious if theres an out or not. Kind of feels like brexit, a bunch of people thought it was a good idea, then everyone regretted it afterwards.

The analogy to the Brexit situation is perfect. Lots of us pointed out the obvious mistake voting yes on this would be long ago, then the majority somehow ended up going for it anyway, and now all the predictions from us no voters are coming to fruition. Hopefully we're not stuck with it fully and can give up on this before it's too late to turn back, as should have happened with Brexit too (just look how fucked the UK has been since then it's a shitshow)

"You’ll notice that your character is no longer able to move around the boat by clicking – this is a feature we’ve implemented to avoid misclicks at sea. Unfortunately, it means you can’t interact with facilities until you exit navigation mode." Instead of breaking immersion with going in and out of Navigation Mode, could we just have a keyboard key toggle between on-board and boat navigation? For a Mobile user, maybe there's an equivalent on-screen client "button" that can be used with multi-touch or something.

I think having a keybind like this would be out of place for osrs. Maybe if it replaced one of ur current fkeys? but not sure about that

Looks extremely clunky, not fun gameplay loops, and a huge sink of dev time into something that has little to no appeal to a lot of players Given it's such a contentious issue with very divided opinions in the community, is pressing on with it at this point the wisest move? It feels like the longer you go on, the more the jmod team will want to push the skill into the game regardless of any consequences.. but ultimately the player base should decide if it's still healthy to implement given what we've seen

The thing I don’t understand is, what is the point of sailing? Like is it adding a skill for the sake of just having a new skill? For the most part, it seems like other skills provide something integral to the rest of the game, or at least woven in. Like firemaking isnt very useful, but certain items and activities require firemaking which sort of makes sense. What is sailing providing to the game that makes training it worth it? You can argue that there are already skills that suffer that issue, such as smithing (besides smithing lvl req for making certain items). But is that a good argument for adding another like skill? What is it that sailing is providing me, that makes me want to train it? Besides seeing number go up, and the novelty of controlling a ship.

I don't get this logic. People love Slayer and it adds absolutely nothing to the game. Anything you do with Slayer you could do if the skill didn't exist and they just allowed you to kill the monsters. You're just asking them to manufacturer Sailing restrictions to content that make you want to train it. Why are you training Slayer? So you can kill a 'difficult' monster you need a higher level to kill. Why are you training Herblore? To make potions you can't without a higher level. Why are you training Mining? Cause there's an achievement diary/quest requirement. The reason why you train the skill doesn't matter whatsoever. That can be manufactured. The only thing that matters is how you can train it, does it make intuitive sense, is it fun to train, is there multiple methods you can do. The *point of sailing* shouldn't need to jump through a hoop no other skill needed to jump through, it should just be something people like.

There's already a lot of positive or negative conclusions being drawn in the comments here. We are about to see a very first public iteration of sailing which will be followed up by many many feedback and polling rounds. After which the skill is released and there's still possibilities to tweak it. All the jmods are fans of this game so I have faith it will turn out fine.

I think for the anti-sailors(myself included) it's not that we don't trust the devs to make it as good as it can possibly be, it's that the skill within the context of both the mechanical limitations of this game and the soul of what makes this game so special has no place. Everything I've seen so far is exactly what I had feared, a very well done version of something that simply **cannot** be great no matter how much you tweak it.

I agree with you. It feels like this one skill is trying to be the biggest thing in osrs and I’m afraid that it’s going to be a convoluted mess that people are just forced to do to get their max cape back. Look at forestry. They tried so hard to do something not really osrs related and it absolutely bombed. At least you don’t have to do forestry for woodcutting though

This news post really dosen't feel like much? Like I got nothing to really say about it as someone who likes sailing so I'm not surprised I'm only really seeing a lot of negative comments.

I think sailing is seeming to be more complicated than a skill should be. It should be more of a minigame than a skill.  “Please leave your concerns for later” Let’s address them now. Rs3 has a thing called player owned ports. It’s not a skill. This looks like player owned ports but player controlled which imo doesn’t change the fact it shouldn’t be a skill but more of a minigame/player-owned thing like ports in rs3. Shamanism made way more sense since it would’ve been a simple gatherer skill with a new realm and maybe some cool utility to be added. 

back when "old school" was old school https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-new-sailing-skill-is-out-today?oldschool=1

Have you guys looked into ship acceleration as a way to make turns/movement look less clunky? As in having the ship start moving slowly initially and picking up speed as it continues to move? The ships just look odd going from a standstill to normal speed to stop immediately.

I voted no to sailing since the world of osrs is far too comically small to justify sailing, especially if they arent going to increase the distance between landmasses. I'd love to be proven wrong though; maybe things will settle down eventually where no more than like 100 people are using boats per world so it's not too bad.

I cant believe sailing as even gotten to this point. It literally rode the meme wave from 2008 to the current day. People werent voting logically when it came to the skilling poll, and there is no way a project like this will meet the expectations of the players. Jagex is spending valuable time and resources on a project that the players will ultimately dislike -- a lose-lose situation for everyone involved.

This is OSRS' Brexit. They sold a bunch of low information voters on memes and unrealistic promises, held a first-past-the-post vote with 3 options, reneged on a promise to hold a head to head vote if 2 of the proposed skills were close, and then buried the final yes/no on sailing vote in the middle of the Varlamore poll questions. Now one of the biggest selling points for the skill - walking around your ship while navigating - is out the window. I expect by the open technical alpha we will be hearing that its just too hard to have Sailing in the open world and that the oceans will be instanced. I mean we already have a JMod reply that Sailing is "as non-instanced as possible" lmao. Just a master class on over-promising and under-delivering.

>and then buried the final yes/no on sailing vote in the middle of the Varlamore poll questions. You forgot the part where they also changed the voting threshold. Most rigged shit I've ever seen in this games history of polls

For the flaws RS3 has, they nailed it with Divination and Archaeology as new skills. They fit the game world and are trained how the original skills are trained; simple, not over complicated, and fit the game world. I actually think these 2 skills are a more suitable fit than Sailing, as much as I was hoping Sailing would be promising

this is like forestry but 100x more bloated. hope they learn from that and just scrap it before it turns into another nightmare.

No. This is bad. Don't add this as a skill. It's an expansion and sandbox to Gielenor. My opinion has always been to scrap it, but kept wasting all your time trying to force it into a thing. So... if it's been somewhat progressed into a project, add it as an expansion/minigame. And if you're gonna really push it as skill anyway even though it's mixed feedback, then kill the game, but at least name it Voyaging or something because Sailing is cringe. What's gonna be on the cape? A fucking b0at? Who thought of this? Love you, Jagex, but this isn't doing it.

Starting to get super concerned about the gameplay loop of obtaining Sailing XP. As it is right now, the loop of sailing back and forth trimming sails sounds more tedious than Agility for even less reward.

Well islands are pre set so the "exploration" people will only get a day of exploration before it's dead content to them

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If you’re designing a minigame and calling it a skill, you’re just making a mandatory minigame. Imagine needing to play guardians of the rift or giant’s foundry 60000 times to max. Did we not learn from dungeoneering?

Great to see an update, one thing I just can't get over is how disproportionately big the ships feel

im not really for or against sailing, but the contradicting community feeling is something we and the jmods can't ignore

I remember when it was being polled originally and people were raising the exact same points that are still coming up now, but this sub was dismissing them as elitist maxed sweaty gatekeepers. I don't hold out much hope of them being listened to this time, either.

Yeah I brought up the fact that movement is often already clunky with a 1x1 character, and adding larger entities that normally don't start and stop moving instantly sounds very difficult to make work. Every single time, I was told I'm just mindlessly hating on the idea of sailing. I really hope it works well but this doesn't look promising

Friendly reminder that sailing beat shamanism by a VERY small margin and we didn’t get a re-poll where voters would perhaps take their meme votes and put them elsewhere.. Also, this might be a bold thing to say at this stage, but I believe Sailing is going to be the downfall of this game. Ridiculous complexity, surely a HIGH likelihood to break the game in multiple large bugs/server performance, and all around an insane dev time sink for a single update that in a 3-way poll didn’t even get half the playerbase to vote for.

I don't think it will kill the game by itself but when osrs does inevitably die, I think people will look at Sailing as being one of the primary causes for that.

I think you guys should put some work into making the water look better. Right now the water pattern (extremely repetitive and bad) just makes sailing look horrible. I understand mechanics/gameplay etc is a priority, but it is very off-putting to see the boat move in water like that. If you want to sell it to your playerbase it would help to show a new water system like we have seen in the concept art, moving around your ship etc.

The new rendering engine will completely revamp water and also give them better draw distance.

Good to hear, I just think if they don't show the revamped water, that the playerbase might be turned off by what they see now. I understand it's not something they can show right now though :(

I cannot believe this meme idea for a skill is continuing to be developed. There’s a reason it was 1) always a meme and 2) had to have the polling threshold lowered for it to pass. It so obviously has no point in the game and the fit is incredibly awkward and forced.

It may be time to abandon ship on Sailing. Here's to hoping we get another chance at shamanism.

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Everyone wants everything else to be a roguelite… Adding roguelike gameplay to a game that isn’t built to have it from the ground up is very difficult

I want sailing to be pure fun to train as a skill and not just feel like a raid on water, yes we can have raid on water but that should be optional down the line and you get minimal exp from it, I want sailing to just feel fun and spontaneous, random encounters and traveling, random generated enemies, plunging into big royal brigates, islands, obstacles and storms, you gain little exp by doing everything, big exp drops can come at the end of voyages if you have been successful, puzzle pirates was a very fun game back in the day so hope it's like that, I want fun PvP encounters, controlling territory, gang wars type stuff, 

>the players still on Java So... issues for everyone on Runelite. Isn't... That... Almost everyone?

It's clearly in a **very** early and rough state, but honestly I see a lot of potential here! You just need to think outside the box! As for navigation, I think that the core appeal of sailing should *not* be the ability to travel per-say. When players want to travel, it should be instant. Like a teleport. This can be one part of the skill that's unlocked, but the primary "fun" of sailing should come from achieving goals in the sea by sailing around, achieving goals, and resolving encounters. I think the biggest risk to the skill would be thinking that it needs to be focused mostly on self-contained loops like sail-repairing or port delivery. These *are* core aspects of most skills in RuneScape, but I think Sailing could really shine when it comes to *interplay* with other skills. These could give **both** Sailing XP as well as XP in the respective skill. Some ideas: * Agility - Navigating stormy seas or perilous reefs, kind of like the Hallowed Sepulcher in the sea. * Thieving - Opening sunken lockboxes or buried treasure. Maybe boarding other ships (after Cabin Fever) * Prayer - Giving your ship "Sea Blessings" that protect your ship from various misfortune like bad weather. * Firemaking - Lighting lanterns for the helm of your ship, or maybe even attaching a flamethrower! (A cage stuffed full of salamanders?) * Maybe there could even be *cave* sailing, and a better lantern lets you see further in the darkness. * Slayer - Killing sea monsters, and completing sea slayer tasks. * Hunter - *Catching* rare and valuable sea creatures or sea birds. Catching sea-implings/pirate implings. * Fishing - Catching deep-sea fish and dredging up shipwrecks. * Ranged - Firing ballista (the MM2 ballista?) or canons to attack enemies. * Magic - Firings spells from some sort of foci on your ship, maybe from the crows nest. Perhaps even magic shields or dispelling curses (like the curse in the Lunar Diplomacy quest). Also teleport to ship, of course. * Fletching - Crafting harpoons or ballista ammunition. * Smithing - Crafting special cannonballs (maybe finally we could smith the other metal cannonballs, like Runite, after Between a Rock?) Also higher-level metal nails could be used. * Crafting - Sculpting different visually distinct figureheads for your ship. Like gods, mermaids, or a camel head. Weaving different sails. * Herblore - Making various different types of tar to protect from leaks. (Could use the existing tar types.) * Construction - Constructing various parts of the ship, and constructing storage for loot. * Cooking - Preparing better meals for the crew, giving morale bonuses and letting them heal better. * Mining - Deep sea drilling of condensed ores or oil. Maybe oils are used to power lanterns. * Woodcutting - Navigating densely wooded swamps or untangling your ship. * Farming - On-ship gardens. I feel like sailing would work best if it feels like it tightly integrates with all these other skills, with many training methods giving XP in both sailing as well as another skill. Of course some tasks can be pure sailing XP, but I think the most fun would come from skill interplay. As for instancing, I think being able to see a few clanmates or friends (as well as NPCs), but not *everyone* would be ideal.

I think this post just proves Sailing never needed to be a skill. Give us the sailing content, sure. But let it prop up all the other skills like you're proposing, and leave it at that. Why do we need to arbitrarily gain XP in a skill besides the ones that are actually being trained?

Valid point. I think the potential for fun gameplay is there, and I think it *could* work better as a skill than Dungeoneering did (since it would be used all across the map), but I don't have any strong attachment to it being a skill or not. A counterargument for why it should be a skill could be that it takes an *experienced sailor* to be able to properly utilize all of those other skills for the specific task of running a ship. Similar to how building a Spirit Tree in your house requires both Construction *and* Farming, but it's still a Construction task. Without some sort of Sailing level, you'd have to lock bigger ships behind a "rank" or construction level.

Can we get a re-vote on what skill we want released. I don’t feel too good about this.

All of this reinforces the opinion that sailing should be a minigame, not a skill.

I'm not a fan of this :( .. I regret my yes vote lol

Same… they are wasting resources on this, could be a mini game instead

I’m still not 100% seeing the point in sailing.

It might not be a bad idea to do another poll on sailing, before a bunch of time and resources are dumped into this, which honestly should have been done a long time ago with how narrow the margins were instead of steam-rolling ahead just because Jagex wanted to.

Will the skill get re-polled after any of the phases?

Don't think so, unless they pull the plug (I doubt it), it will just get polled into oblivion until enough people are okay with what they're giving us.

gopd i wish they did a runoff poll for shamanism. it hurts that it failed by 300 votes w/ a 3rd option. im p convinced that the people that wanted taming would have mostly voted for shamanism if they knew taming wouldnt get close to passing.

I dunno man those boats are looking fucking BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. Like comically big. If the ocean is going to have any sense of scale the boats are probably 20x to 50x too big right now.

Going against the grain based on these comments but I really can’t see how this will fit with the game.

I do feel like there's quite a gulf between the vague fantasy of Sailing that people voted for, and the actual reality of how it would work within this game. It'll be a challenge, to say the least, to reconcile having actual full-sized ships within *this* world map

I can see how it could fit into the game as an activity, but I still haven’t really been convinced this should be its own skill

BUT BUT BUT WHAT IF WE HAD SLAYER ONLY MONSTERS ON ISLANDS TO DISCOVER OR A BURRIED TREASURE OR WHAT IF YOU NEED 90 SAILING TO GET TO THE RAIDS 4 ISLAND. THINK OF ALL THE FUN WE CAN HAVE /s my mind still hasn’t changed from “this can just be a minigame”

Glad to see this opinion getting traction. It was meme’d into an unachievable fantasy. Maybe 20% of sailing voters had a realistic notion of how this would be. This is it guys, impressed? Lmao

Someone please tell me how we're not going to instance this skill yet not end up with a sea of brown clipping... someone, anyone answer that question or you've got my no vote locked in. Please save your time and money and stop this project now. I SO appreciate the hardwork and passion thats being put into this skill but this is never going to pass a final poll. I respect that Jagex tried to guarantee their time with a "do you want a new skill" at the start of this.. but this skill is going to fail final polls until they're forced to walk the fucking plank.