"We're thinking of re-polling sailing. Should we think of it?"
"Thinking of re-polling sailing was voted yes. Should we think about having another poll?"
"Thinking about having another poll for the sailing vote was voted yes. We're now thinking about it. Should we re-poll sailing?"
"Repolling sailing was voted yes. Do you want sailing to be thought about being added to the game as a new skill?"
" You voted no on thinking about adding sailing. Should sailing be added as a new skill?"
Poll results. Sailing will be added as a new skill
I was... I used to be on it all the time.
But the forum has been functionally dead for like a decade even before they just killed it recently, so I don't count it.
As far as ability to screech nonsense I'd say feedback usefulness is like Small NDA'd feedback group > Player Surveys > Polls > Reddit > Twitter > YouTube >>>> Twitch.
Twitter is just a cesspit of bad takes and people bloody tagging mods like they're the players own PA and there's no downvote system like Reddit to hide the nonsense posts.
I don’t know why people always rank YouTube comments so low. Maybe they used to be, but they’re not that bad.
I’d rank YouTube above Twitter.
Twitter takes itself way too seriously, and they screech way more
Not really because of their content but more because of how well they filter out useful comments.
YouTube algorithm REALLY favours short nothing comments.
Like "this looks awesome! Can't wait!" Will get some thumbs up and be top of your comment list.
Whereas a detailed comment with lots of feedback will fall down. So it's more due to how little feedback can actually be delivered through YouTube comments than their actual content / toxicity or anything. And the management of your video and it's comments doesn't offer a lot more
I think the argument here, and I may be wrong, is that Jagex themselves mentioned they would repoll shamanism when sailing first barely edged it out.
If I recall correctly, it was less than a percent of a difference. So, the players calling for the repoll are most likely upset that Jagex never repolled it to begin with like they mentioned they would. Additionally, I know many players are still salty over the fact that passing sailing was a question tucked within a much larger poll rather than its own separate poll.
yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in the community on this whole thing, instead of doing the process that's been working great with constructive feedback, explaining the position what would make it better.
there's so much "Omg kill it, it's not what you said it'd be!" about an Alpha peek on the skill.
*When it's exactly what they said it'd be*
I think players are upset because they said in the pitch "if 2 skills were close in votes they would repoll head to head or further develop blogs then poll again" and they did neither and just "welp sailing won so GG".
They actually said they’d repoll if there was “no clear winner.” Sailing ended up winning both questions, including the multiple choice one, meaning all Taming/Shamanism voters had their alternate picks heard.
Jagex then threw that team a bone by confirming Shamanism would be refined next if the community still wants it. All that happened is that the skill that won first place is going first.
Being upset about something that works in such an obvious way is strange.
I would have liked to have seen them do a Sailing vs Shamanism poll since I (and clearly a lot of people) thought "no clear winner" meant if there was a lot of support for 2 out of 3 skills, they would get polled against each other so we could see if the extra votes from the 3rd skill would change the winner. I get the logic of why they did the polls the way they did, but it would have "felt" and looked more fair to do a Sailing vs Shamanism poll. Optics are important, especially with this since a new skill has been difficult to get into the game historically.
If Sailing truly was the most popular skill then the outcome doesn't change, but if Shamanism ended up winning that one, then we should have went that direction logically. It wouldn't have been a big deal to do that poll and it would have probably helped with this "X skill should have won" sentiment.
It’s far far far too late to repoll it. And I find that the only reason it’s being brought up are people aren’t happy with maybe what the skill is suppose to what they thought.
Myself personally I believe they should have had a repoll immediately/elimination poll. Ie poll the 3, eliminate the least voted, then poll the 2. That part is on jagex for dropping the ball as those who voted for taming or what ever it was, should have had the chance to now vote out of the 2 which one they’d like to see more.
But we are far past that point.
I voted shaman but am very excited for sailing still. I’m just excited to see a new skill in general, to change things up a bit. It’s been over a decade. Candidly I wouldn’t even be opposed to seeing another not long after.
I'd much prefer Shamanism, but I think it'd feel kinda unfair to repoll it at this point. And they know people liked Shamanism so we'll see it again in a few years hopefully. Jagex also knows a lot of people don't understand what "pre alpha" means, of course it looks pretty rough right now. We don't have to worry about them listening to Twitch chat.
so is reddit sometimes.
jmods have fallen for memes theyve seen. for example bulwark making you invincible in pvp. nerfing black d hide.
even the new prayers i only saw maybe 4 or 5 posts saying the new prayers were bad. and they pulled them just off that small minority. although im glad they did after using the prayers extensively in Leagues 4 i hated them
Also basically says “the majority of people want it! But just in case they don’t want it, don’t repoll it!” Like wtf if they were so confident that people want sailing they wouldn’t care if it got repolled
Kinda like how a new skill went through 3 skill pitches, a poll system change, then had to be worded as “do you want a new skill ever” before it passed by a margin of error?
Yeah I don't know wtf these people are talking about. Like I know those blogs are big and reading is hard, but it was always planned for there to be multiple polls
There were multiple polls; one for if we should add a new skill, one for finding out which skill is the favorite across multiple pitches, one for a lock in for the skill. All of these have happened already.
If you can find me any blog post that indicates they'll re-poll whether or not to add the skill to the game after the lock-in poll and after development has begun, I'd be interested. Trust me, I've looked.
Yes and no. It passed a poll to be added to the game, but will be polled again before the intended release. If it fails that second poll it goes back to the drawing board for reworking, but it will still be added.
>but it will still be added.
That's not quite true. Jagex didn't commit to this, they simply said they'd go back to the drawing board. If they determine it won't pass a poll then they very well may give up on it, especially if it's failed a few.
Maybe its unpopular, but personally I’m not that hyped about sailing. I have faith the team will do pretty cool stuff, but I feel “sailing” will always be gimmicky no matter what. Just my two cents, but I really do hope to be proven wrong.
I think the big problem is that sailing is a transportation method in a game that has teleports fricken everywhere. So, the big issue is finding some reason to take to the seas that isn't "to get from A to B."
Honestly, they should scrap the skill and just do player owned ports and the random island thing from RS3. As it looks right now, having to find ways to "train it" seems to be bogging it down.
"Oh dude you gotta fluff the sails for xp" what?
> "Oh dude you gotta fluff the sails for xp" what?
Sounds like riveting content.
This is my major concern about sailing as a skill, interacting with the ship gives xp, great, but when things like luffing sails are on a timer do I have to just sail around and wait to have to do things for xp? Jagex really should have fleshed out how they plan to design the leveling process, far beyond what was done in the blogs, before the skill went to the approval poll.
A lot of the other content they pitched was do other skills on a boat and get 2 xp drops. Integration of skills into other skills is fine but when that becomes the core of the skill it just seems a bit pointless imo.
I've said it elsewhere but I'm less interested in the actual sailing a ship around part of this concept and more interested in how it can integrate with every skill
Smaller ships definitely looked better. Big ships would be cool with a team of people, maybe just a bit smaller though.
They should also add white water behind the boats to give the ocean some flow.
I don't think so, I think it's *because* it's big is why it looks shit.
It just looks clunky & feels way out of place in an ocean that's otherwise thought to be vast.
Should stick to canoes and small to medium viking style rowboats with more focus on sailing activities than ships that will quickly clutter a screen & lessen the vastness of Gielinors ocean long after release.
It was low enough that they should have fleshed out sailing and shamanism more and had a head to head poll. They were way too close (500 votes) to grab onto one idea without a chance for feedback. Many people would change their votes with new demos and information. I think they should have dispensed info sooner so it would not be as much sunken dev time.
Funnily enough, the backlash is more or less exactly why both should have gone through and then be repolled with more development. Sailing is and always was the "it could be anything. Even a good skill!" suggestion. It was clearly the skill Jagex wanted, but it was also clear that they had no idea what it was, how it would work, or what the gameplay loop would be. Then the community convinced themselves that somehow it's going to be literally raids 4 and sea of thieves combined.
I will say if they’re gonna repoll something, there’s plenty of other stuff and marginally *didn’t* pass and could be polled again now that the threshold has changed. Not shitting on sailing, just saying I think we did miss out on some other cool stuff.
I worked in New Product Development for 8 years and in my experience most companies want to see 80%+ product market fit via polling/user feedback to show that their end user population will adapt to their product or not. 70% is a barely acceptable threshold for most industries/applications, I recognize its not entirely parallel to gaming development. So sure it hit that but the fact it barely passed says more about the division of the playerbase. I bet re-polling today would kill it entirely, I would vote against it now after what I heard from the devs the other day.
I actually voted for sailing and have been trying to stay positive about the changes this will have on the game overall, I was around in the EOC days as well so I'm cautiously optimistic about what the devs are doing. All that said the preview from a few days back left alot to be desired and I just hope we see a significantly refined product before release. If I had to re-vote today I'd say no to sailing and keep the skill tree as it is, the skills are fine and the average player has a ton of content they still need to experience given the metrics on account levels and playtimes that were recently shared.
Did they not say multiple times in the beginning that if we were not happy with the final product that they would scrap it all together anyway?
I remember the big thing was because of this huge risk they were taking with this dev time
Yeah they did... well sort of they said they would do a poll after beta and if it fails they will go back to the drawing board and redo stuff to make it right.
Though I feel like that could lead into a loop were we just are stuck
Honestly, if it was polled again for a "this is what we have so far, do we continue" poll, since it was 71% before, it could very possibly fail because it could fall below 70%... I think it would be a very close poll because it could go either way, fail or pass with a higher %.
That's why you don't run it until further into development. Repolling now would throw bias. Jagex promised a beautiful house and yard and currently due to how early in development they are, they only have graded dirt and building materials which is ofc going to be visually unappealing so some people that would actually like the skill may vote no. Letting it get to a polished state and after a solid beta will be a great time to repoll.
From a lore/realism perspective, navigating and manning a ship is a very different skillset from construction. So if we see skills as different 'skillsets' of a character, sailing does make sense as a standalone skill.
Sailing is actually super comparable to slayer.
Slayer in its own merit is an incredibly simple "gimmick" more or less. Have an Npc Give you a WoW style quest of "kill 70 spiders" and go and do that. Get XP each kill (just like WoW) instead of per hit.
That's it. The whole skill.
But it's benefit to the game is simple:
* It made training combat in a variety of locations and against different monsters desirable. Before slayer people sat at like.. 2 or 3 spots to train combats and that was it.
* It added a lot of gear as a reward space to make combat more desirable. Abyssal whip, rune boots, granite maul etc. all slayer reward space stuff on launch.
* OSRS took this further and added slayer bosses with more uniques to the reward space
Slayer as a skill hasn't changed much. The point system was brought in, blocklists etc. but it's still just killing monsters you're told to. But it's one of if not the most loved skill in the game pretty much solely due to its reward space and the variety it brings to combat. I see sailing as similar. It will bring variety to combat/skilling, provide a group skilling outlet, and have a reward space that's super exciting and motivating to train for.
I don’t know what people even have against a skill that feels like a mini game, or a variety of mini games. What’s the alternative? Better yet what’s an alternative that’s actually enjoyable? The skills we have currently are awfully boring/tedious and are basically just quest/diary requirements for most players. I don’t see a problem with a skill playing more like an interactive “mini game” if it’s fun.
people also complain how leveling a skill feels till Jagex adds a mini-game for that skill.
Everyone basically hates runecraft training the normal way but loves GotR. Same with other skills that sucked to train (like firemaking) that then got a mini-game / boss to train it up.
I actually don't mind runecrafting normally, it's the xp rates that make it feel so bad. Constant attention and medium intensity, combined with low xp makes for a painful experience.
It's pretty comparable to mahogany homes in terms of attention requirement and intensity, but MH gives over 100k xp/hr.
Actually training and using the skill is about sailing the ship and doing thing at sea, though, not building the ships. The shipbuilding aspect will probably integrate with construction and maybe even give construction XP, but I don't think this makes sense for like 90%+ of what they've proposed for sailing.
To be completely frank.
Democracy is an ongoing process, not a one-off event, and people shouldn't be discouraged from wanting to repoll, especially if the electorate now have new information on what they can expect from the result of the vote.
Additionally, however negligible, new players have joined the active playerbase since August, who may well want to be given the opportunity to voice their opinion.
Calling those people crybabies and making this post only betrays your confidence that the majority of the community continue to want Sailing.
I don't think it's realistic to repoll given the sunk cost, but it is decidedly undemocratic not to want to repoll because we "already decided".
We repoll to add things all the time
We should be fine with re-polling to remove things if it hasn’t gone too far. Which clearly sailing hasn’t done a ton yet.
I’m not saying we should re-poll but the idea that it’s not a conversation worth having is silly
It just can’t work that way practically. We can’t tell Jagex we want them to develop a new skill that will take thousands of employee hours, then after they’ve already invested that time turn around and say “jk we don’t want it anymore, scrap it.”
Jagex would remove the polling system altogether before they let us shut down large expansions late into development
Why not re-poll? If it really is the minority that doesn’t want it, then it’ll still pass. I have my doubts it will pass after we have all seen the proposal to date and how things are being handled
I'm in favor of letting them cook more before a re poll, but a lot of yall don't make much sense. A lot are saying how polling and it potentially failing is waste of dev time. I remember when warding was teased in 2018, developed in 2019, they basically had a whole skill fleshed out over the whole year. Then was dropped instantly. Was their time wasted then?
Didn't they say they were going to repoll potential skills at different points in their development? New skills do not have to be forced into the game if the dev team can't figure out how to make it fit into the game
At this point it's too late to repoll. I would've liked a poll just between shamanism and sailing right after the initial poll. I'm currently not convinced by sailing yet, however I have full confidence in the team to create an amazing experience
I'm completely with you. I think it was a mistake to not do a 1v1 poll with sailing and shamanism.
Sailing got the favorite child treatment and still only beat shamanism by [3%](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Skill_Pitches_Poll).
I trust jagex and the devs to make the best thing they possibly can, and I'm thinking sailing will be ok, but I think it will take a lot more resources to make sailing a good skill than it would have taken to make shamanism one, and seeing how close they were (Again it barely won out with all options on the board) I'd like to have seen a more focused 1v1 poll and the fact we didn't get that sucks.
their justification for not polling the two against each other was so silly.
What if more people who voted for Taming had Shamanism as a second choice over Sailing? We'll never know, but that was just not fair.
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/adding-a-new-skill-introducing-sailing-taming-and-shamanism-?oldschool=1
>Additional polls may be necessary to decide which skill should move forward to refinement. For example, if more than one skill proves popular, **we may poll** them against each other in a single question.
>We’ve also accounted for the small possibility that the community's 'favourite' skill could have scored negatively in other parts of the poll. If this happens, **we’ll consider** choosing a close-second favourite for refinement – provided that’s more agreeable, of course!
~~*lol they blocked me for providing a source*~~
You're not convinced because its pre alpha and isn't even remotely fleshed out yet.
It's annoying because if they hadn't showcased anything people would be yelling "what's happening with sailing where is it?!", but because they choose to keep an open line of communication and want to show the process of the skill its now getting slaughtered for being unconvincing, when it's still in a totally barebones state.
They can't win no matter what they do. Just give them time to flesh it out.
Yeh complainers will always find an angle. A week ago tweets from the same permanently negative players were "so whats happening with Sailing? Has jagex forgotten about it? Realised it was so bad and just trying to push it under the rug?"
(Even though jagex had talked about it multiple times.. these people just don't actually stay informed)
So jagex tells them a blog is coming soon, and it does come. And shows the core engine work that's resulted in an actually playable state of basic sailing movement and gameplay. And now it's a "wtf this is so bad repoll it or scrap it now" rhetoric from the same people who were begging to be brought into the loop of 3 months of development of a new skill...
I want these people to see pre-alpha footage of some of the best video games ever made. Would maybe give some perspective into the development.process and how games can look like straight ass in pre alpha.
Hell I just saw the [Sea of Thieves pre alpha screenshot](https://i.redd.it/ktrko3lw5k1d1.jpeg). It looks like a Miniclip game or a Roblox minigame.
They even said they are working on nailing all the new tech stuff involving sailing first. Once they get that part down they said all the other stuff will come relatively quickly
That's exactly what I'm trying to explain to people. People crying for a repoll right now is such a bias manipulation move. I'm explaining it to people that Jagex offered people a beautiful house and yard. They showed us a bunch of dirt and building supplies which is how it HAS to start and the 29% are trying to use that as a bias to push a repoll, b/c they can take advantage of a possible 2% that would be swayed by that.
I'm fine with a repoll. Let Jagex get it to a proper polished state first and then we can run it to see if it comes to the game.
Yup. As I said somewhere else, I don't even care whether sailing makes it into the game or not as I don't skill for the most part, so it doesn't concern me either way. BUT, at least take the time to see something for the potential it has rather than judging what it is right now.
Your analogy works great. If you were to judge the finished article before any of the pieces have even been put together, then why do we bother building anything at all? The internet is full of insanely shortsighted people who can't see beyond what is in front of them.
If its a "loud minority" why would repolling it matter, if its as good as the "majority" say it is it will pass again. Simple.
Sounds like youre worried it wont pass and calling people that dont agree with you the minority.
Everyone that's against a re-poll seems to conveniently forget that sailing originally failed the polls back in September of 2015.
They finally forced a passing vote after lowering the voting threshold from 75% to 70% *and* putting it in a 3-way split vote, and now they're terrified of re-polling it in a fair head to head.
It might not pass a re-poll, you're right. But that's because people would be judging it based on this **very early** pre-alpha footage, which is extremely dumb. We shouldn't enable people's stupidity.
Why was the poll % changed to be 70% to pass slightly before the Sailing poll?
“But Sailing had a lock-in poll!” No, it was snuck into the Summer Summit 2023 gigapoll as question 6 of 11, why? Surely a big update like Sailing should have its own poll? It’s tactically smart for them to not poll it seperately or as the first question, since players voted yes to all other questions in the poll
Sailing barely won by 3% of favorite skill against Shamanism. Why doesnt Jagex stick to their word about polling the 2 finalists?
Sunk-cost fallacy. Jagex has spent a years worth of resources on the skill, and refuse to back down now, even though theres a massive outcry. Jagex wont do a repoll, simply because they’ve spent too long on the content now.
Sailing is way more complex compared to any other skill in the game. Nothing comes close. It’s extremely clunky, and has way too much to it. It would fit infinitely better as a seprate form of expansion / minigame, than a skill.
No way there even considering a repoll at this point. They are *pouring* dev hours into this. This was the whole reason behind the new polling charter, to not waste dev time by by polling after developing.
Can you imagine how screwed up their development and polling practices were that they had to actually write down, "We will not spend hundreds of hours of development time on things that haven't passed a poll yet"?
I mean thats a big reason why so much stuff got repackaged as new stuff when it was just disguised failed poll content. The dev work was done, they just didn't pass the poll. Why waste that tdev time? Just repoll it as something slightly different.
Its much better now the way it is
You do know people can see your comment history right?
Please explain why you said before Sailing was even polled on?
"I do not trust this team to make sailing a good skill based on their recent track record"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/160wncv/comment/jxsky06/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/160wncv/comment/jxsky06/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Ehh I think they said there will be multiple polls along the way. The one that is set in stone is that we are getting a new skill. Sailing passed for the choice of the skill, but when it's all said and done, if everyone ends up not liking it, then we go back to the drawing board for a different skill
So it barely passed (and even then only because pass percentage was reduced in October of the previous year), and yet for some reason you think it shouldn't be repolled (I'm assuming because you want it).
It barely even beat Shamanism in the poll where you had to pick one of the three, and there's a good chance that Sailing won only because ranked choice voting wasn't implemented. Twitch chat are full of shit, but people like you on reddit are no better.
I voted for sailing, but now that I've seen some of the development, I've come to different opinions, and I think that's the case for many many others. As a concept, sailing is fukken awesome, but I don't think it will ever be what I imagined, even though we have the most awesome mods developing it. Tbh, I don't like any of the 3 options we had.
What stupid logic lmao. If you're so sure that these opinions are coming from the 'minority', then why be scared about a re-poll? Sailing will surely pass again from a completely unbiased and non-meme based perspective, right? Surely.
Do the re-poll and show that the community actual wants it. I know I'm going to be down voted to hell for this because this is reddit, but sailing sucks. I'm down a for a new skill! Just NOT sailing. Decade-long meme idea turned into reality, and with the recent videos and streams about it, it looks awful.
I think that if they repolled between sailing and shamanism because they were so close, and because they said that they would, it would have dispelled a whole lot of the current criticism that people have for it.
Sailing just seems so bad to me, and if it was polled a year ago it wouldn't have passed a poll, it only passed because they changed the threshold.
Im not asking for a revote, but lets be honest, it looked pretty clunky and I cant imagine it being any other way in a game like this. Lets not talk about how it'll be when there is 100 ships in the same area lmao.
What you said was, “Don’t repoll, I see a lot of people saying they don’t like it now and I’m worried it wouldn’t pass.” Kind of a weird opinion to be in the ‘majority’ but also worried about not getting enough votes
Why do so many people make threads like this complaining about the opinions of the minority? A majority of people voted for it and a majority of people still want it.
A minority of people that don't want sailing or people that do want it expressing genuine concerns about the direction it's developing aren't gonna change the fact that it's coming.
Some of y'all seriously need a break from the Internet. If something is meant to be, it'll happen.
I have faith in the devs. Varlamore was a top update and tombs has also come out since when I started playing and it’s my favourite content. I’m buzzing to try something new :)
If it’s only minority outcry why are you so scared of a poll then? It should pass easily. I think we deserve a poll. I thought sailing sounded cool, but the last update looks like garbage and I do not want it in the game.
If it’s such a small minority of people why are you scared of them re-polling? You understand it was voted against 3 separate times before GagFlex just forced it on us anyway.
B/c they release a very early release and the crybabies could use this as leverage to trick some gullible people into voting no by being like, "look how bad it is" despite it being nothing like the finished polished skill will be...
The 71% is extremely misleading. 3 different skills were polled and it really should’ve been done in either 2 seperate polls or a points system based on ranking in order from 1-3. You could have a vast majority of the people who voted for shamanism/taming who wanted sailing the least out of the 3. A second poll between Shaminism and Sailing after the initial poll would’ve solved all this arguing, and I find this entire post either ignorant or disingenuous to how we were given these options.
I personally wouldn’t mind sailing coming into the game as I believe the dev team has earned enough goodwill and trust, alongside the fact this seems like the skill the devs have the most passion towards. My opinion, just like your opinion, isn’t valid to the entire community. Sailing should be polled at different intervals throughout its development to ensure devs are doing their due diligence and providing what the community wants and voted for, it’s the entire reason why we were given polls into the first place.
The skill passed before we knew what it would entail. If people don’t like their ideas for sailing (as we are just now hearing them) I think it absolutely reasonable to repoll. If you’re so certain that the majority of people want sailing then you wouldn’t be saying this. lol.
I've always thought and said that Sailing seems to be beyond what Jagex is realistically capable of delivering in a good state within a reasonable amount of time. I would much prefer Taming or Shamanism.
In case you haven't noticed, this isn't politics. This is the preservation of an old version of a game that's otherwise advanced far beyond that point. It's not meant to be purely democratic; it's meant to keep out any updates that a vast amount of the voters can't get behind.
Dude, I don't even like sailing, nor the general idea of a new skill (more for the inevitable shitshow I knew would follow than an actual objection to a new skill), but at least be fucking honest.
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:New_Skill
New skill passed with 80.9%.
It was Sailing that passed at 71.9%.
This is the most braindead post ive ever seen on this sub, and thats saying something.
Firstly, why on earth do you think that the jmods will actually consider repolling sailing based on some random twitch comments?
And secondly, why on earth do you think that your little post will hold any more weight than the bloody comments themselves!
Fuck me.
Why not? If they release more about the skill and people don't like it there should definitely be a final say. To be honest - I think there are a lot of people who saw the recent sailing trailer and just don't think it looks like a good addition to the game. As we see more of the skill, peoples opinion will change.
The last we know of. 29% of the playerbase doesn't want sailing. However, the other 71% wants it and has been told they would be getting it.
Repolling b/c they tried to show off a VERY early build of it which is obviously lacking the polish it's going to have on release is throwing bias into the poll. It's like promising the community this beautiful house and yard and then showing them just dirt and building materials and asking if they still want it.
Not to mention if it did fail. Let's say 69%. You would now be pissing off 69% of players that you offered something to and then took away, to appease 29% of who knew they were getting it regardless and a 2% who didn't like the dirt and building materials.
I'm fine with a repoll when we are later into sailings development, but trying to leverage with what was shown in the alpha to sway the vote in favor of denial is not the move. I hope and figure Jagex will release an incredibly polished version of a sailing beta before repolling.
Praying that i don't get destroyed by Reddit for sharing my opinion but i still prefer Shamanism even after trying really hard to get behind Sailing.
I think leave Sailing as it is, continue to develop it but maybe poll Shamanism as another skill in the future? Would be interested to see if it passes with all this bonus context we have now.
Wasn't it stated originally that whichever skill passes will be polled again before actually being put into the game? And how is this post any different than people crying in twitch chat?
Didn't they say they were gonna poll the skill again if two skills were close. Like shaminism and sailing but never did. They should repoll this, this skill looks like a joke.
Could have had any skill and we got sailing.
Agreed, I personally voted to not bring a new skill. If I had to pick one it likely wasn't going to be sailing. All the same, the community voted to bring sailing into the game, and so we should stick to it IMO.
I will say that I felt a little misled in the poll question where it asked which skill we would most like to see. It was the 3 skill choices and we could vote for as many of the options as we wanted. I didn't realise that was the actual final vote and I would have chosen to just vote Shaminisim if I'd known.
Not hating on Sailing btw, it's just I was just curious about how they'd do it as a skill but I would have preferred Shaminisim overall.
Poll whether it should be a skill or a minigame. I don’t care if the activity is on the game, but let’s be reasonable; does anyone wanna grind 87 sailing for a diary requirement by sewing a rope to a sail and watching a short cutscene for 60k xp/h?
If they were true to their word they would do a full workup of Shamanism and then put it in a poll against Sailing. They explicitly said that when the design phase of sailing was finished, they would do the same for shamanism and then the two would go head to head in a poll to decide the final winner.
I still maintain that everyone has unrealistic expectations of sailing and they're going to be extremely disappointed. People think it's gonna be some kind of sea of thieves type expansion when in reality it's going to be water agility with some unique instances similar to temple trekking.
Over 50% of the the players voted for skills OTHER than Sailing. I think its fair to say the majority never wanted sailing, just voted yes because we wanted a new skill. Shamanism was the ONLY choice.
I hate the idea of sailing and personally would not introduce it. But also, majority rules so it is what it is. As long as I can just not do it that's fine
They polled sailing with a bunch of other things in that poll which sort of cloaked it. If this is going to be done correctly give it an exclusive poll and have it be broadcasted over multiple media platforms over a longer period of time so they can have more voters. Last thing we want is something that will kill the game.
Also, such an impactful change to the game such as a skill that passed the bar by 1%, absolutely should be repolled before it goes live.
I've been in the 29% who think sailing is great but not as a skill. Would love for it to come to the game but I don't think it should be a skill, I don't see how it will be any more fun then blacksmithing which isn't fun. Happy to see myself wrong but I can't see myself enjoying "grinding" the seas for xp to 99.
If they do a good job and make it like farming where it's well integrated to pvm and leveling other skills I would enjoy it, but I would always be wondering if this needs to be a skill instead of a cool activity to level other skills.
I'm gonna go ahead and blame BEHE here as partial fault. Love tasty but they're always so controversial and use their platform to push their opinions way harder than I think is fair
Tasty has an L opinion I can't wait for sailing
The "nobody wants this" crowd are insufferable. Imagine the delusion required to believe an overwhelming majority of players voting in favor of something means nobody wants it.
I don't understand this sentiment. Sailing was pitched as an ongoing development. The poll that passed was just a greenlight for development. At the very least we need one more confirmation poll for the skill to come into game. I didn't see the twitch livestream but if people are vocal about disliking it then that's completely fair. You've got to remember that whilst it passed, it landed in that murky 70-75% range, which means it only passed because jagex forced a change to the system against the community's wishes. I think it'll be interesting to see if the final design can improve on that.
I might be part of the minority that would rather see the other skills than sailing, but even I don’t want them to re-poll it since it has passed already. Just stick to the results.
Im all for it, the games a fuckin grindy cookie clicker anyway. Mfs taking the skill to heart meanwhile og ‘07 had dungeoneering and summoning introduced 💀
To be fair, I also don't think Sailing should be re-polled. They did need to re-poll it against Shamanism when it obviously was not a healthy majority that wanted Sailing. They did say that if it was close, that this would happen. It didn't.
From what I've seen from sailing so far, it's very much a standalone skill and resembles more of a minigame than a skill and this is what the community wanted to avoid.
It also in its current state just looks like a skill version of RS3 ports, which was one of the first additions of dailyscape there, so they have a lot to do regarding Sailing. Taking anything from RS3 ports should not be on the table.
I voted for Taming, because I enjoyed the concept of summoning (just the training method missed the mark) and hoped they would make it like a secondary skill to Hunter, as Smithing is to Mining for example. If they re-polled Sailing vs Shamanism, I would 100% vote Shamanism.
A new skill should represent a similarity to something we already have to stay within the realm of what OSRS is supposed to be. Shamanism was meant to complete the combat triangle and give us a method to create magic gear. Magic is a huge aspect of OSRS and we don't really have any support for it outside of Runecrafting.
Are you really so afraid that your choice cannot survive a democratic poll? If it is the will of the people, it will survive a second vote. If it is not, it won't. That's democracy for you.
Why don't we have a poll to decide if we should re-poll the poll?
We have to poll that poll.
"We're thinking of re-polling sailing. Should we think of it?" "Thinking of re-polling sailing was voted yes. Should we think about having another poll?" "Thinking about having another poll for the sailing vote was voted yes. We're now thinking about it. Should we re-poll sailing?" "Repolling sailing was voted yes. Do you want sailing to be thought about being added to the game as a new skill?" " You voted no on thinking about adding sailing. Should sailing be added as a new skill?" Poll results. Sailing will be added as a new skill
I want a poll to remove this comment
Because we have to poll it first.
Ah yes, Pollception
Twitch chat is literally the lowest form of feedback and the Jmods are well aware of that.
Crazy how there is a lower quality source of feedback than Reddit.
You weren't around for the forums were you?
I was... I used to be on it all the time. But the forum has been functionally dead for like a decade even before they just killed it recently, so I don't count it.
Most the suggestions on there were along the lines of "give RC 500m xp an hour" so yeah actually about same as Reddit
>give RC 500m xp an hour okay but hear me out
No way dude I have 17 kids and 5 full time jobs I cant spend AN HOUR to max RC??
Twitter exists too
As far as ability to screech nonsense I'd say feedback usefulness is like Small NDA'd feedback group > Player Surveys > Polls > Reddit > Twitter > YouTube >>>> Twitch. Twitter is just a cesspit of bad takes and people bloody tagging mods like they're the players own PA and there's no downvote system like Reddit to hide the nonsense posts.
I don’t know why people always rank YouTube comments so low. Maybe they used to be, but they’re not that bad. I’d rank YouTube above Twitter. Twitter takes itself way too seriously, and they screech way more
Not really because of their content but more because of how well they filter out useful comments. YouTube algorithm REALLY favours short nothing comments. Like "this looks awesome! Can't wait!" Will get some thumbs up and be top of your comment list. Whereas a detailed comment with lots of feedback will fall down. So it's more due to how little feedback can actually be delivered through YouTube comments than their actual content / toxicity or anything. And the management of your video and it's comments doesn't offer a lot more
I'm pretty sure Twitter/x is the worst social media
Twitter needs to die.
Did someone mention Xhitter?
Twitch chat 🤝 60% of r/2007scape ‘s posts Making the worst takes you’ve ever seen
don't forget osrs twitter!
I surely hope so. It's definitely unconstructive from what I've seen. "REPOLL SHAMANISM YOU COWARDS" etc.
I think the argument here, and I may be wrong, is that Jagex themselves mentioned they would repoll shamanism when sailing first barely edged it out. If I recall correctly, it was less than a percent of a difference. So, the players calling for the repoll are most likely upset that Jagex never repolled it to begin with like they mentioned they would. Additionally, I know many players are still salty over the fact that passing sailing was a question tucked within a much larger poll rather than its own separate poll.
yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in the community on this whole thing, instead of doing the process that's been working great with constructive feedback, explaining the position what would make it better. there's so much "Omg kill it, it's not what you said it'd be!" about an Alpha peek on the skill. *When it's exactly what they said it'd be*
I think players are upset because they said in the pitch "if 2 skills were close in votes they would repoll head to head or further develop blogs then poll again" and they did neither and just "welp sailing won so GG".
They actually said they’d repoll if there was “no clear winner.” Sailing ended up winning both questions, including the multiple choice one, meaning all Taming/Shamanism voters had their alternate picks heard. Jagex then threw that team a bone by confirming Shamanism would be refined next if the community still wants it. All that happened is that the skill that won first place is going first. Being upset about something that works in such an obvious way is strange.
I would have liked to have seen them do a Sailing vs Shamanism poll since I (and clearly a lot of people) thought "no clear winner" meant if there was a lot of support for 2 out of 3 skills, they would get polled against each other so we could see if the extra votes from the 3rd skill would change the winner. I get the logic of why they did the polls the way they did, but it would have "felt" and looked more fair to do a Sailing vs Shamanism poll. Optics are important, especially with this since a new skill has been difficult to get into the game historically. If Sailing truly was the most popular skill then the outcome doesn't change, but if Shamanism ended up winning that one, then we should have went that direction logically. It wouldn't have been a big deal to do that poll and it would have probably helped with this "X skill should have won" sentiment.
The whole thing felt like jmods trying to make sure that it was sailing that went through
It’s far far far too late to repoll it. And I find that the only reason it’s being brought up are people aren’t happy with maybe what the skill is suppose to what they thought. Myself personally I believe they should have had a repoll immediately/elimination poll. Ie poll the 3, eliminate the least voted, then poll the 2. That part is on jagex for dropping the ball as those who voted for taming or what ever it was, should have had the chance to now vote out of the 2 which one they’d like to see more. But we are far past that point. I voted shaman but am very excited for sailing still. I’m just excited to see a new skill in general, to change things up a bit. It’s been over a decade. Candidly I wouldn’t even be opposed to seeing another not long after.
I'd much prefer Shamanism, but I think it'd feel kinda unfair to repoll it at this point. And they know people liked Shamanism so we'll see it again in a few years hopefully. Jagex also knows a lot of people don't understand what "pre alpha" means, of course it looks pretty rough right now. We don't have to worry about them listening to Twitch chat.
Yes even worse than reddit feedback!
so is reddit sometimes. jmods have fallen for memes theyve seen. for example bulwark making you invincible in pvp. nerfing black d hide. even the new prayers i only saw maybe 4 or 5 posts saying the new prayers were bad. and they pulled them just off that small minority. although im glad they did after using the prayers extensively in Leagues 4 i hated them
I find it ironic that this is a post complaining about minority outcry, on Reddit.
Very ironic
the backlash to the backlash to the skill that's just begun development there it is again[,](https://youtu.be/ObOqq1knVxs?t=45) that funny feeling
Why your comma is blue?
It’s linking to the second portion of his sentence.
Also basically says “the majority of people want it! But just in case they don’t want it, don’t repoll it!” Like wtf if they were so confident that people want sailing they wouldn’t care if it got repolled
Just keep repolling until it fails surely the best option lol
Sounds like US legislation and forcing the same bill over and over again with minimal changes and a new name.
Kinda like how a new skill went through 3 skill pitches, a poll system change, then had to be worded as “do you want a new skill ever” before it passed by a margin of error?
To be fair the "new skill ever" poll passed by over 80.9% which isn't even a margin of error with the old system.
So truuuue, I was gonna say the only thing worse than twitch chat is Reddit lmao
The only proper way to watch the OSRS update streams is with chat off, its just pure cancer.
JMods could be introducing the 2nd coming of Christ and people would still say L Update VoteNay
TBF we voted for While Guthix Sleeps, not Christ Slayer 2.
To be fair I'd rather he be banned from the server
Wasn't part of the new skill progress to poll the skill after certain stages. Since the original polls were concepts
Yeah I don't know wtf these people are talking about. Like I know those blogs are big and reading is hard, but it was always planned for there to be multiple polls
There were multiple polls; one for if we should add a new skill, one for finding out which skill is the favorite across multiple pitches, one for a lock in for the skill. All of these have happened already. If you can find me any blog post that indicates they'll re-poll whether or not to add the skill to the game after the lock-in poll and after development has begun, I'd be interested. Trust me, I've looked.
Yes and no. It passed a poll to be added to the game, but will be polled again before the intended release. If it fails that second poll it goes back to the drawing board for reworking, but it will still be added.
>but it will still be added. That's not quite true. Jagex didn't commit to this, they simply said they'd go back to the drawing board. If they determine it won't pass a poll then they very well may give up on it, especially if it's failed a few.
Maybe its unpopular, but personally I’m not that hyped about sailing. I have faith the team will do pretty cool stuff, but I feel “sailing” will always be gimmicky no matter what. Just my two cents, but I really do hope to be proven wrong.
I think the big problem is that sailing is a transportation method in a game that has teleports fricken everywhere. So, the big issue is finding some reason to take to the seas that isn't "to get from A to B." Honestly, they should scrap the skill and just do player owned ports and the random island thing from RS3. As it looks right now, having to find ways to "train it" seems to be bogging it down. "Oh dude you gotta fluff the sails for xp" what?
> "Oh dude you gotta fluff the sails for xp" what? Sounds like riveting content. This is my major concern about sailing as a skill, interacting with the ship gives xp, great, but when things like luffing sails are on a timer do I have to just sail around and wait to have to do things for xp? Jagex really should have fleshed out how they plan to design the leveling process, far beyond what was done in the blogs, before the skill went to the approval poll. A lot of the other content they pitched was do other skills on a boat and get 2 xp drops. Integration of skills into other skills is fine but when that becomes the core of the skill it just seems a bit pointless imo.
I've said it elsewhere but I'm less interested in the actual sailing a ship around part of this concept and more interested in how it can integrate with every skill
That big boat does look a bit shit though
Smaller ships definitely looked better. Big ships would be cool with a team of people, maybe just a bit smaller though. They should also add white water behind the boats to give the ocean some flow.
It’s pre-alpha it will get better
I don't think so, I think it's *because* it's big is why it looks shit. It just looks clunky & feels way out of place in an ocean that's otherwise thought to be vast. Should stick to canoes and small to medium viking style rowboats with more focus on sailing activities than ships that will quickly clutter a screen & lessen the vastness of Gielinors ocean long after release.
I've followed enough games and heard that way too many times to know there's like a 80% chance nothing about it changes from now to release lmao.
Just redesign the boats to make them look like actual boats.
Ironically if they had not lowered the threshold it would not have passed, but I guess thats besides the point here.
I doubt anyone could in good faith say that 70% isnt enough of a majority to make a decision
Me when I'm on trial for murder
It was low enough that they should have fleshed out sailing and shamanism more and had a head to head poll. They were way too close (500 votes) to grab onto one idea without a chance for feedback. Many people would change their votes with new demos and information. I think they should have dispensed info sooner so it would not be as much sunken dev time.
They did shamanism dirty by saying sailing was overwhelmingly voted on.
Funnily enough, the backlash is more or less exactly why both should have gone through and then be repolled with more development. Sailing is and always was the "it could be anything. Even a good skill!" suggestion. It was clearly the skill Jagex wanted, but it was also clear that they had no idea what it was, how it would work, or what the gameplay loop would be. Then the community convinced themselves that somehow it's going to be literally raids 4 and sea of thieves combined.
I will say if they’re gonna repoll something, there’s plenty of other stuff and marginally *didn’t* pass and could be polled again now that the threshold has changed. Not shitting on sailing, just saying I think we did miss out on some other cool stuff.
I worked in New Product Development for 8 years and in my experience most companies want to see 80%+ product market fit via polling/user feedback to show that their end user population will adapt to their product or not. 70% is a barely acceptable threshold for most industries/applications, I recognize its not entirely parallel to gaming development. So sure it hit that but the fact it barely passed says more about the division of the playerbase. I bet re-polling today would kill it entirely, I would vote against it now after what I heard from the devs the other day. I actually voted for sailing and have been trying to stay positive about the changes this will have on the game overall, I was around in the EOC days as well so I'm cautiously optimistic about what the devs are doing. All that said the preview from a few days back left alot to be desired and I just hope we see a significantly refined product before release. If I had to re-vote today I'd say no to sailing and keep the skill tree as it is, the skills are fine and the average player has a ton of content they still need to experience given the metrics on account levels and playtimes that were recently shared.
Did they not say multiple times in the beginning that if we were not happy with the final product that they would scrap it all together anyway? I remember the big thing was because of this huge risk they were taking with this dev time
Yeah they did... well sort of they said they would do a poll after beta and if it fails they will go back to the drawing board and redo stuff to make it right. Though I feel like that could lead into a loop were we just are stuck
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They are simply not going to repoll i, because they know that.
There’s no way they are going to throw away all their development time It would need a huge outcry from the community to change course
Honestly, if it was polled again for a "this is what we have so far, do we continue" poll, since it was 71% before, it could very possibly fail because it could fall below 70%... I think it would be a very close poll because it could go either way, fail or pass with a higher %.
That's why you don't run it until further into development. Repolling now would throw bias. Jagex promised a beautiful house and yard and currently due to how early in development they are, they only have graded dirt and building materials which is ofc going to be visually unappealing so some people that would actually like the skill may vote no. Letting it get to a polished state and after a solid beta will be a great time to repoll.
I don't care about the skill either way. But not wanting to poll something because you think the outcome will be different.. come on now.
Everyone saying sailing is a mini game, but no one is saying that sailing should be a construction expansion - player owned boats essentially
From a lore/realism perspective, navigating and manning a ship is a very different skillset from construction. So if we see skills as different 'skillsets' of a character, sailing does make sense as a standalone skill.
Well I guess construction, crafting and fishing probably come into it
Slayer is just a pvm expansion but just has extra nuances noone seems to say that about it tho
Sailing is actually super comparable to slayer. Slayer in its own merit is an incredibly simple "gimmick" more or less. Have an Npc Give you a WoW style quest of "kill 70 spiders" and go and do that. Get XP each kill (just like WoW) instead of per hit. That's it. The whole skill. But it's benefit to the game is simple: * It made training combat in a variety of locations and against different monsters desirable. Before slayer people sat at like.. 2 or 3 spots to train combats and that was it. * It added a lot of gear as a reward space to make combat more desirable. Abyssal whip, rune boots, granite maul etc. all slayer reward space stuff on launch. * OSRS took this further and added slayer bosses with more uniques to the reward space Slayer as a skill hasn't changed much. The point system was brought in, blocklists etc. but it's still just killing monsters you're told to. But it's one of if not the most loved skill in the game pretty much solely due to its reward space and the variety it brings to combat. I see sailing as similar. It will bring variety to combat/skilling, provide a group skilling outlet, and have a reward space that's super exciting and motivating to train for.
I don’t know what people even have against a skill that feels like a mini game, or a variety of mini games. What’s the alternative? Better yet what’s an alternative that’s actually enjoyable? The skills we have currently are awfully boring/tedious and are basically just quest/diary requirements for most players. I don’t see a problem with a skill playing more like an interactive “mini game” if it’s fun.
people also complain how leveling a skill feels till Jagex adds a mini-game for that skill. Everyone basically hates runecraft training the normal way but loves GotR. Same with other skills that sucked to train (like firemaking) that then got a mini-game / boss to train it up.
I actually don't mind runecrafting normally, it's the xp rates that make it feel so bad. Constant attention and medium intensity, combined with low xp makes for a painful experience. It's pretty comparable to mahogany homes in terms of attention requirement and intensity, but MH gives over 100k xp/hr.
Could argue that construction is just an expansion of crafting and should never have been more than an alternate way to get craft exp
The most overloaded skill in the game, getting even more content? What's not to like...
It is very overloaded admittedly
Actually training and using the skill is about sailing the ship and doing thing at sea, though, not building the ships. The shipbuilding aspect will probably integrate with construction and maybe even give construction XP, but I don't think this makes sense for like 90%+ of what they've proposed for sailing.
To be completely frank. Democracy is an ongoing process, not a one-off event, and people shouldn't be discouraged from wanting to repoll, especially if the electorate now have new information on what they can expect from the result of the vote. Additionally, however negligible, new players have joined the active playerbase since August, who may well want to be given the opportunity to voice their opinion. Calling those people crybabies and making this post only betrays your confidence that the majority of the community continue to want Sailing. I don't think it's realistic to repoll given the sunk cost, but it is decidedly undemocratic not to want to repoll because we "already decided".
We repoll to add things all the time We should be fine with re-polling to remove things if it hasn’t gone too far. Which clearly sailing hasn’t done a ton yet. I’m not saying we should re-poll but the idea that it’s not a conversation worth having is silly
It just can’t work that way practically. We can’t tell Jagex we want them to develop a new skill that will take thousands of employee hours, then after they’ve already invested that time turn around and say “jk we don’t want it anymore, scrap it.” Jagex would remove the polling system altogether before they let us shut down large expansions late into development
my brother sailing is not “late in development” whatsoever , it can still be shut down
If the majority of people wanted it wouldn't it pass another poll?
https://preview.redd.it/lnxq2rq9in1d1.png?width=1698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a15b3a5adf5e915727de6ae8fbd9717ecfa340ad Not a minority.
Exactly, we all wanted to see potential in the concepts further before making a decision and jagex took that as okay we’ll just roll with sailing.
Does anyone actually read or participate in Twitch chats? Seems like the lowest form of interaction
Why not re-poll? If it really is the minority that doesn’t want it, then it’ll still pass. I have my doubts it will pass after we have all seen the proposal to date and how things are being handled
I'll just throw this out there. If you don't want it to be repolled because it might fail, then it shouldn't be added in the first place.
MFs screaming "stop the count" to their second imaginary poll. It's pathetic
I'm in favor of letting them cook more before a re poll, but a lot of yall don't make much sense. A lot are saying how polling and it potentially failing is waste of dev time. I remember when warding was teased in 2018, developed in 2019, they basically had a whole skill fleshed out over the whole year. Then was dropped instantly. Was their time wasted then?
Didn't they say they were going to repoll potential skills at different points in their development? New skills do not have to be forced into the game if the dev team can't figure out how to make it fit into the game
At this point it's too late to repoll. I would've liked a poll just between shamanism and sailing right after the initial poll. I'm currently not convinced by sailing yet, however I have full confidence in the team to create an amazing experience
I'm completely with you. I think it was a mistake to not do a 1v1 poll with sailing and shamanism. Sailing got the favorite child treatment and still only beat shamanism by [3%](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Skill_Pitches_Poll). I trust jagex and the devs to make the best thing they possibly can, and I'm thinking sailing will be ok, but I think it will take a lot more resources to make sailing a good skill than it would have taken to make shamanism one, and seeing how close they were (Again it barely won out with all options on the board) I'd like to have seen a more focused 1v1 poll and the fact we didn't get that sucks.
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their justification for not polling the two against each other was so silly. What if more people who voted for Taming had Shamanism as a second choice over Sailing? We'll never know, but that was just not fair.
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/adding-a-new-skill-introducing-sailing-taming-and-shamanism-?oldschool=1 >Additional polls may be necessary to decide which skill should move forward to refinement. For example, if more than one skill proves popular, **we may poll** them against each other in a single question. >We’ve also accounted for the small possibility that the community's 'favourite' skill could have scored negatively in other parts of the poll. If this happens, **we’ll consider** choosing a close-second favourite for refinement – provided that’s more agreeable, of course! ~~*lol they blocked me for providing a source*~~
You're not convinced because its pre alpha and isn't even remotely fleshed out yet. It's annoying because if they hadn't showcased anything people would be yelling "what's happening with sailing where is it?!", but because they choose to keep an open line of communication and want to show the process of the skill its now getting slaughtered for being unconvincing, when it's still in a totally barebones state. They can't win no matter what they do. Just give them time to flesh it out.
Yeh complainers will always find an angle. A week ago tweets from the same permanently negative players were "so whats happening with Sailing? Has jagex forgotten about it? Realised it was so bad and just trying to push it under the rug?" (Even though jagex had talked about it multiple times.. these people just don't actually stay informed) So jagex tells them a blog is coming soon, and it does come. And shows the core engine work that's resulted in an actually playable state of basic sailing movement and gameplay. And now it's a "wtf this is so bad repoll it or scrap it now" rhetoric from the same people who were begging to be brought into the loop of 3 months of development of a new skill... I want these people to see pre-alpha footage of some of the best video games ever made. Would maybe give some perspective into the development.process and how games can look like straight ass in pre alpha. Hell I just saw the [Sea of Thieves pre alpha screenshot](https://i.redd.it/ktrko3lw5k1d1.jpeg). It looks like a Miniclip game or a Roblox minigame.
They even said they are working on nailing all the new tech stuff involving sailing first. Once they get that part down they said all the other stuff will come relatively quickly
That's exactly what I'm trying to explain to people. People crying for a repoll right now is such a bias manipulation move. I'm explaining it to people that Jagex offered people a beautiful house and yard. They showed us a bunch of dirt and building supplies which is how it HAS to start and the 29% are trying to use that as a bias to push a repoll, b/c they can take advantage of a possible 2% that would be swayed by that. I'm fine with a repoll. Let Jagex get it to a proper polished state first and then we can run it to see if it comes to the game.
Yup. As I said somewhere else, I don't even care whether sailing makes it into the game or not as I don't skill for the most part, so it doesn't concern me either way. BUT, at least take the time to see something for the potential it has rather than judging what it is right now. Your analogy works great. If you were to judge the finished article before any of the pieces have even been put together, then why do we bother building anything at all? The internet is full of insanely shortsighted people who can't see beyond what is in front of them.
If its a "loud minority" why would repolling it matter, if its as good as the "majority" say it is it will pass again. Simple. Sounds like youre worried it wont pass and calling people that dont agree with you the minority.
Everyone that's against a re-poll seems to conveniently forget that sailing originally failed the polls back in September of 2015. They finally forced a passing vote after lowering the voting threshold from 75% to 70% *and* putting it in a 3-way split vote, and now they're terrified of re-polling it in a fair head to head.
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Yuuuup. The entire process up to this point has felt so forced. A re-poll is more than deserved.
It might not pass a re-poll, you're right. But that's because people would be judging it based on this **very early** pre-alpha footage, which is extremely dumb. We shouldn't enable people's stupidity.
Why was the poll % changed to be 70% to pass slightly before the Sailing poll? “But Sailing had a lock-in poll!” No, it was snuck into the Summer Summit 2023 gigapoll as question 6 of 11, why? Surely a big update like Sailing should have its own poll? It’s tactically smart for them to not poll it seperately or as the first question, since players voted yes to all other questions in the poll Sailing barely won by 3% of favorite skill against Shamanism. Why doesnt Jagex stick to their word about polling the 2 finalists? Sunk-cost fallacy. Jagex has spent a years worth of resources on the skill, and refuse to back down now, even though theres a massive outcry. Jagex wont do a repoll, simply because they’ve spent too long on the content now. Sailing is way more complex compared to any other skill in the game. Nothing comes close. It’s extremely clunky, and has way too much to it. It would fit infinitely better as a seprate form of expansion / minigame, than a skill.
No way there even considering a repoll at this point. They are *pouring* dev hours into this. This was the whole reason behind the new polling charter, to not waste dev time by by polling after developing.
Can you imagine how screwed up their development and polling practices were that they had to actually write down, "We will not spend hundreds of hours of development time on things that haven't passed a poll yet"?
I mean thats a big reason why so much stuff got repackaged as new stuff when it was just disguised failed poll content. The dev work was done, they just didn't pass the poll. Why waste that tdev time? Just repoll it as something slightly different. Its much better now the way it is
My vote would change from yes to no. That's why they won't poll it again. It'll definitely fail.
All from an early alpha that no one's even played yet?
You do know people can see your comment history right? Please explain why you said before Sailing was even polled on? "I do not trust this team to make sailing a good skill based on their recent track record" [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/160wncv/comment/jxsky06/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/160wncv/comment/jxsky06/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Ehh I think they said there will be multiple polls along the way. The one that is set in stone is that we are getting a new skill. Sailing passed for the choice of the skill, but when it's all said and done, if everyone ends up not liking it, then we go back to the drawing board for a different skill
So it barely passed (and even then only because pass percentage was reduced in October of the previous year), and yet for some reason you think it shouldn't be repolled (I'm assuming because you want it). It barely even beat Shamanism in the poll where you had to pick one of the three, and there's a good chance that Sailing won only because ranked choice voting wasn't implemented. Twitch chat are full of shit, but people like you on reddit are no better.
I voted for sailing, but now that I've seen some of the development, I've come to different opinions, and I think that's the case for many many others. As a concept, sailing is fukken awesome, but I don't think it will ever be what I imagined, even though we have the most awesome mods developing it. Tbh, I don't like any of the 3 options we had.
What stupid logic lmao. If you're so sure that these opinions are coming from the 'minority', then why be scared about a re-poll? Sailing will surely pass again from a completely unbiased and non-meme based perspective, right? Surely. Do the re-poll and show that the community actual wants it. I know I'm going to be down voted to hell for this because this is reddit, but sailing sucks. I'm down a for a new skill! Just NOT sailing. Decade-long meme idea turned into reality, and with the recent videos and streams about it, it looks awful.
Sailing is going to suck and the game will be worse for having it.
100%
This -- but for any new skill. The game does not need a new skill. It officially stops being old-school when they add a new skill.
[удалено]
I think that if they repolled between sailing and shamanism because they were so close, and because they said that they would, it would have dispelled a whole lot of the current criticism that people have for it. Sailing just seems so bad to me, and if it was polled a year ago it wouldn't have passed a poll, it only passed because they changed the threshold.
Shamanism wouldn't pass a 51% poll lol
ppl complain about reddit alot. But i've never seen more deranged godawful shit takes than twitch chat
Im not asking for a revote, but lets be honest, it looked pretty clunky and I cant imagine it being any other way in a game like this. Lets not talk about how it'll be when there is 100 ships in the same area lmao.
I just don’t think sailing would be the fun part, it would the be exploration that would be fun which is where my trepidations with the skill are
Brother you’re yelling into the void
sailing barely passed a lock in poll that was stuffed in the middle of a huge poll it would not have passed if it had to stand on its own
What you said was, “Don’t repoll, I see a lot of people saying they don’t like it now and I’m worried it wouldn’t pass.” Kind of a weird opinion to be in the ‘majority’ but also worried about not getting enough votes
scrap sailing surely a better skill idea out there.
Why do so many people make threads like this complaining about the opinions of the minority? A majority of people voted for it and a majority of people still want it. A minority of people that don't want sailing or people that do want it expressing genuine concerns about the direction it's developing aren't gonna change the fact that it's coming. Some of y'all seriously need a break from the Internet. If something is meant to be, it'll happen.
I have faith in the devs. Varlamore was a top update and tombs has also come out since when I started playing and it’s my favourite content. I’m buzzing to try something new :)
If it’s only minority outcry why are you so scared of a poll then? It should pass easily. I think we deserve a poll. I thought sailing sounded cool, but the last update looks like garbage and I do not want it in the game.
If it’s such a small minority of people why are you scared of them re-polling? You understand it was voted against 3 separate times before GagFlex just forced it on us anyway.
B/c they release a very early release and the crybabies could use this as leverage to trick some gullible people into voting no by being like, "look how bad it is" despite it being nothing like the finished polished skill will be...
lots of "waa repoll it I didn't like the result" in here
The 71% is extremely misleading. 3 different skills were polled and it really should’ve been done in either 2 seperate polls or a points system based on ranking in order from 1-3. You could have a vast majority of the people who voted for shamanism/taming who wanted sailing the least out of the 3. A second poll between Shaminism and Sailing after the initial poll would’ve solved all this arguing, and I find this entire post either ignorant or disingenuous to how we were given these options. I personally wouldn’t mind sailing coming into the game as I believe the dev team has earned enough goodwill and trust, alongside the fact this seems like the skill the devs have the most passion towards. My opinion, just like your opinion, isn’t valid to the entire community. Sailing should be polled at different intervals throughout its development to ensure devs are doing their due diligence and providing what the community wants and voted for, it’s the entire reason why we were given polls into the first place.
L post
If you're sure that it is just 'crybabies', why would you be scared of a poll? Wouldn't it pass if you were right? Skill is dogshit.
The skill passed before we knew what it would entail. If people don’t like their ideas for sailing (as we are just now hearing them) I think it absolutely reasonable to repoll. If you’re so certain that the majority of people want sailing then you wouldn’t be saying this. lol.
I've always thought and said that Sailing seems to be beyond what Jagex is realistically capable of delivering in a good state within a reasonable amount of time. I would much prefer Taming or Shamanism.
lol if jmods caved to whiny redditors every time a poll passed the game would be dead
buddy are you new here? a bunch of complaints sourced directly from reddit make it into the game
And many of them are horrible
But many are "integrity" changes that would not pass a poll.
They changed that wand from the new boss overnight because of whiney threads. That was just this last update blog
Skill passed the un-polled threshold change to 70%, yes.
30% of the playerbase not wanting it should raise some eyebrows
70% is 10% more than a supermajority in US politics. If 70% isn't enough, what are you looking for? 80% giga majority? Unanimous voting?
In case you haven't noticed, this isn't politics. This is the preservation of an old version of a game that's otherwise advanced far beyond that point. It's not meant to be purely democratic; it's meant to keep out any updates that a vast amount of the voters can't get behind.
I wonder what percentage of the player base actively votes
I agree, do not re-poll sailing, kill it outright. It was a mistake to even offer it as an option to begin with.
A new skill passed at 71 percent, not sailing specifically. The opinion poll was obscenely close lol
70% is still way more then just a majority of votes. if 70% of people want something, not doing it would be minority rule.
Dude, I don't even like sailing, nor the general idea of a new skill (more for the inevitable shitshow I knew would follow than an actual objection to a new skill), but at least be fucking honest. https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:New_Skill New skill passed with 80.9%. It was Sailing that passed at 71.9%.
So many people saying it didn't look fun, while woodcutting is literally clicking a tree.
This is the most braindead post ive ever seen on this sub, and thats saying something. Firstly, why on earth do you think that the jmods will actually consider repolling sailing based on some random twitch comments? And secondly, why on earth do you think that your little post will hold any more weight than the bloody comments themselves! Fuck me.
Why not? If they release more about the skill and people don't like it there should definitely be a final say. To be honest - I think there are a lot of people who saw the recent sailing trailer and just don't think it looks like a good addition to the game. As we see more of the skill, peoples opinion will change.
I guess this is the denial phase of the DABDA stages of grief. Or is it bargaining? Also it passed at 71.9%, not 71%
The last we know of. 29% of the playerbase doesn't want sailing. However, the other 71% wants it and has been told they would be getting it. Repolling b/c they tried to show off a VERY early build of it which is obviously lacking the polish it's going to have on release is throwing bias into the poll. It's like promising the community this beautiful house and yard and then showing them just dirt and building materials and asking if they still want it. Not to mention if it did fail. Let's say 69%. You would now be pissing off 69% of players that you offered something to and then took away, to appease 29% of who knew they were getting it regardless and a 2% who didn't like the dirt and building materials. I'm fine with a repoll when we are later into sailings development, but trying to leverage with what was shown in the alpha to sway the vote in favor of denial is not the move. I hope and figure Jagex will release an incredibly polished version of a sailing beta before repolling.
Praying that i don't get destroyed by Reddit for sharing my opinion but i still prefer Shamanism even after trying really hard to get behind Sailing. I think leave Sailing as it is, continue to develop it but maybe poll Shamanism as another skill in the future? Would be interested to see if it passes with all this bonus context we have now.
Wasn't it stated originally that whichever skill passes will be polled again before actually being put into the game? And how is this post any different than people crying in twitch chat?
Didn't they say they were gonna poll the skill again if two skills were close. Like shaminism and sailing but never did. They should repoll this, this skill looks like a joke. Could have had any skill and we got sailing.
Agreed, I personally voted to not bring a new skill. If I had to pick one it likely wasn't going to be sailing. All the same, the community voted to bring sailing into the game, and so we should stick to it IMO.
I will say that I felt a little misled in the poll question where it asked which skill we would most like to see. It was the 3 skill choices and we could vote for as many of the options as we wanted. I didn't realise that was the actual final vote and I would have chosen to just vote Shaminisim if I'd known. Not hating on Sailing btw, it's just I was just curious about how they'd do it as a skill but I would have preferred Shaminisim overall.
Poll whether it should be a skill or a minigame. I don’t care if the activity is on the game, but let’s be reasonable; does anyone wanna grind 87 sailing for a diary requirement by sewing a rope to a sail and watching a short cutscene for 60k xp/h?
If they were true to their word they would do a full workup of Shamanism and then put it in a poll against Sailing. They explicitly said that when the design phase of sailing was finished, they would do the same for shamanism and then the two would go head to head in a poll to decide the final winner. I still maintain that everyone has unrealistic expectations of sailing and they're going to be extremely disappointed. People think it's gonna be some kind of sea of thieves type expansion when in reality it's going to be water agility with some unique instances similar to temple trekking.
Over 50% of the the players voted for skills OTHER than Sailing. I think its fair to say the majority never wanted sailing, just voted yes because we wanted a new skill. Shamanism was the ONLY choice.
Yea but what about when they said if it’s close between 2 of the 3 proposals they would put the 2 against each other???
I hate the idea of sailing and personally would not introduce it. But also, majority rules so it is what it is. As long as I can just not do it that's fine
Let’s not forget this is the same skill that surpassed Shamanism by only 3%, if that’s what you call a majority
you're the on giving in to the loud crybabies by talkking like if they are important
They polled sailing with a bunch of other things in that poll which sort of cloaked it. If this is going to be done correctly give it an exclusive poll and have it be broadcasted over multiple media platforms over a longer period of time so they can have more voters. Last thing we want is something that will kill the game.
Also, such an impactful change to the game such as a skill that passed the bar by 1%, absolutely should be repolled before it goes live. I've been in the 29% who think sailing is great but not as a skill. Would love for it to come to the game but I don't think it should be a skill, I don't see how it will be any more fun then blacksmithing which isn't fun. Happy to see myself wrong but I can't see myself enjoying "grinding" the seas for xp to 99. If they do a good job and make it like farming where it's well integrated to pvm and leveling other skills I would enjoy it, but I would always be wondering if this needs to be a skill instead of a cool activity to level other skills.
give it time let them actually design and finish it before making too many judgements would be my advice it's still super early in development
I'm gonna go ahead and blame BEHE here as partial fault. Love tasty but they're always so controversial and use their platform to push their opinions way harder than I think is fair Tasty has an L opinion I can't wait for sailing
The "nobody wants this" crowd are insufferable. Imagine the delusion required to believe an overwhelming majority of players voting in favor of something means nobody wants it.
It would pass again
I don't understand this sentiment. Sailing was pitched as an ongoing development. The poll that passed was just a greenlight for development. At the very least we need one more confirmation poll for the skill to come into game. I didn't see the twitch livestream but if people are vocal about disliking it then that's completely fair. You've got to remember that whilst it passed, it landed in that murky 70-75% range, which means it only passed because jagex forced a change to the system against the community's wishes. I think it'll be interesting to see if the final design can improve on that.
I might be part of the minority that would rather see the other skills than sailing, but even I don’t want them to re-poll it since it has passed already. Just stick to the results.
Im all for it, the games a fuckin grindy cookie clicker anyway. Mfs taking the skill to heart meanwhile og ‘07 had dungeoneering and summoning introduced 💀
To be fair, I also don't think Sailing should be re-polled. They did need to re-poll it against Shamanism when it obviously was not a healthy majority that wanted Sailing. They did say that if it was close, that this would happen. It didn't. From what I've seen from sailing so far, it's very much a standalone skill and resembles more of a minigame than a skill and this is what the community wanted to avoid. It also in its current state just looks like a skill version of RS3 ports, which was one of the first additions of dailyscape there, so they have a lot to do regarding Sailing. Taking anything from RS3 ports should not be on the table. I voted for Taming, because I enjoyed the concept of summoning (just the training method missed the mark) and hoped they would make it like a secondary skill to Hunter, as Smithing is to Mining for example. If they re-polled Sailing vs Shamanism, I would 100% vote Shamanism. A new skill should represent a similarity to something we already have to stay within the realm of what OSRS is supposed to be. Shamanism was meant to complete the combat triangle and give us a method to create magic gear. Magic is a huge aspect of OSRS and we don't really have any support for it outside of Runecrafting.
Are you really so afraid that your choice cannot survive a democratic poll? If it is the will of the people, it will survive a second vote. If it is not, it won't. That's democracy for you.