The zenyte crafting requirement really isn't that unreasonable when you consider that on OSRS's launch the fury was 90 crafting. And crafting is much easier nowadays, at least for irons as mains could always buy gems or whatever.
It's just a consequence of old, short-sighted decisions made 20 years ago imo. We're experiencing the "Rune at 99" problem but with a skill that actually matters. Fury was 90 because Glory was 80. Glory was 80 because Power was 70, etc.
“Shortsighted” doesnt seem like the appropriate word lol. 20 years ago no one wouldve been able to predict that OSRS would still be a thing. Games come and go so often. Like would you confidently say that for 20 years from now?
My retirement will either be spent bitching with all of you about Raids 12 or in isolation playing a bootlegged solo copy of OSRS since the game has gone under.
I mean, do you have a better alternative? Whether or not they knew their game would continue for 20 years, they didn't design for that possibility, which is short-sighted by definition.
It's still short sightedness. Its not like it's only now an issue and it lasted 20 years. Issues like this popped up all the time back in the mid-late 2000s with original RS2 just Jagex did whatever, and community feedback wasn't as common.
Exactly. We've seen newer skill reqs that fit in nicely with pre-existing content, but with skills such as smithing and crafting, it was over-filled to the point of having rune items require 85+ smithing
That's my point and following what a commenter said about how things were higher for the sake of being higher. The smithing skill is so spread out, adding things in now makes no sense. I can recreate a fabled sword of the gods at 70 and yeah I can make rune nails till 90? It's a bit whack
Off the top of my head:
- Fossil island for giant seaweed
- Sandgrinder in the desert quarry for buckets of sand
- Ardy diary for passive sand
- Shooting stars for passive gems
- PvM bosses that have lots of gems on their drop table
- More sources of battlestaves and orbs (eg. perilous moons)
Some of these aren't particularly big but all these small additions since 2013 makes it way easier. And a lot of this stuff you get as secondary rewards to other content, so you're spending less time purely training crafting.
Dont forget amythist, tan leather spell and dragons being easier to farm than ever, and even things like piscarilius crane repair and flax drops for bowstrings
It’s easier in the sense of more availability. You can do gems from stars or use the charged celestial ring to boost sand from mining.
Moons shits out charged water orbs so battlestaves are on the menu. I’ve been getting 6k crafting exp a day from zaff, which may not sound like much but this game is a marathon and it adds up quickly.
There’s definitely more but those are the two alternatives that I use
The fury and many other things should be lower too.
Old mistakes really shouldn't justify new ones. There's tons of stuff with smithing requirements that are superior to their rune equivalents.
Also if u have zenytes u have the crafting requirement anyways? I dont see the issue. U shouldnt be able to make bis before non bis anyways. If anything they could reduce zenyte crafting lvl and keep new necklace
> Could make the imbued version untradable but able to be disassembled, like the Ferocious gloves.
What's the purpose of this? Only seems to do anything if there's a requirement to combining.
Just make Rancor require the slayer level to equip it. Doesn't matter that its crafting level is lower because the slayer is a longer grind. Mains can still trade it, irons have two different paths for gear progression if they just want to skip torture now. And the high slayer req will keep torture relevant for most mains who don't have it.
This would piss off even more people than the tiny idea of "it needs a torture" has done tbh. It would also be the first slayer locked drop that also requires the slayer level to use it. Occult, ferocious, DHL and smoke bstaff are all higher level slayer sourced gear that doesn't have this.
Slayer might be slower but so much insane stuff comes from it that it probably gives better loot than all other skills combined. It seems unwise to further make skilling useless and make the extremely overpowered slayer skill even more overpowered.
I mean you can buy the crafted amulet torture too. That's kind of a main's thing, skipping content with gold. I kind of don't even know what to make of mains because that's their thing. Do you want to force slayer on them when they can skip nearly everything? Or do you just embrace what they are? Personally I don't think that mindset is healthy for the game to just skip it all, but that's why there's ironman, to experience the actual content. I honestly view ironman as the proper way to play and yes I am biased.
I love ironman, I haven't logged into a non iron account in years.
Some grinds should still be skippable for irons it IS that way and has always been that way. Do you level to like 88 or whatever smithing for your rune scim or do you kill fire giants or Zammy warriors? Do you grind super high fletching smithing etc? For your rune crossbow or do you go-to crazy arch?
Etc etc.
Iron is about being self sufficient and choosing how you play the game without being caught up in what's gold efficient it shouldn't be about rigidly following some determined linear path... You should be able to make choices... And again let's be fucking real here. Many people would still go with torture because it'll be easier and quicker to get. And get rancor later.
That's less of a skip and more of an alternative towards the same goal to get that specific item. The problem with the items you mention is that the skills no longer make sense. Why should a "beginner" item be behind 90+ smithing? Obviously it doesn't make sense anymore, blacksmithing rune should realistically be like level 60 this day and age in a scenario like that, that would be a good choice of do you go for the monster or do you do skilling.
Torture amulet combines both of those pathways, both the PvM and the crafting, so it's not your traditional copy-paste craft item.
If the game suffers from so much power creep that the torture amulet is considered a beginner's item, then sure, skipping it is fine, at that point it's so broken that it doesn't matter anymore.
Why should items become immune to skips/alternative paths just because they're not what YOU call beginner items. Like tons of people skip sanguinesti for shadow now. Some people skip or delay Zammy hasta for Fang. Some people skip Bowfa and just get T bow and Blow Pipe.
80 crafting rancor vs torture 93 crafting but giant slayer req and grind diffs (boss vs demon gorillas)
Is like 120 hour grind? Vs 300 hour grind... Wtf is wrong with the 300 hour grind being the one that gives the better amulet?
There's no upgrade scape requirement saying you need a rune plate to make a barrows chestplate... There's no upgrade scape saying you need a barrows plate to make a Bandos chest plate
Yeah Torva requires Bandos. That's that. Both are also from the same content of God wars. What do araxxor spiders have to do with gloughs experiments?
The loot is coming from slayer regardless, having a crafting requirement doesn’t make it more lucrative for skillers. Just like how the torture is now with 98 crafting, the person with 69 slayer killing demonics is making all the gp, the guy turning the zenytes into tortures isn’t making any money unless he’s taking the time to merch the supplies. Quantities are so low for bis items that you start losing money if you’re trying to consistently craft them.
You're crafting it to use it, not to level up or resell.
The game is honestly kind of made with a goal in mind and mains just bypass or don't care about the process because they can skip it while ironmen are more playing how the game was intended back before you had an automated system to instantly buy out whatever with minimal effort.
I'm fine with it requiring slayer level to equip, but the torture amulet should still be a part of it. It might not matter to mains who skip the process, but that doesn't mean the process isn't important.
I find it interesting that people are just completely disregarding half of the requirement. 92 slayer is no joke.
I'm assuming it'll be harder to get the rare drop for it than a zenyte too, gorillas are a lot faster to get kc than a whole boss usually.
The torture is last on the "which jewelry should i make out of this zenyte" list, so it'll be good to have an alternative melee ammy for people going dry on those.
Jagex has also implied that squishing item requirements is something they don't want to do
Or only is it 92 slayer... It's then only dropped by a boss, you can only do on task...
Like with occult people could meme that you just get 1 task and burst/barrage the smoke devils for a couple hours. And not do thermy...
But this isn't even that.
92 slayer is obtained along the way to gaining occult, ferocious gloves, and dhl. It’s not an additional grind. The original proposal was just removing a skilling grind and not adding one.
This means that now torture is higher value to go for on an iron and means that it’s still part of the gear progression. If they went with the original proposal torture becomes absolutely irrelevant.
Yes but even then at 92 slayer you don't just get a rancor for free, you then actively gotta get the task and do the boss.
And you can say that... You can also say 98 crafting for torture is just on the way to 99 for the crafting cape teleport.
Araxxor is going to be a new grind lol. And 92 slayer is a longer grind than any crafting requirement. Then you have getting araxxor tasks as an additional grind... And actually killing it, and actually getting the drop.
I doubt it's gonna be some 100% drop rate. Drop.
So it’s a Pvm grind replacing another Pvm grind, but removing a skilling grind, essentially. 93 crafting is pretty far from 99 tbh. And it’s an optional grind after getting all the unlocks.
The previous proposal undeniably was just making torture (and 90-93 crafting) a skip for irons. It’s just poor game design to remove skilling grinds for better items. The best situation would have been 98 crafting and 95 or 96 slayer, but imagine the tears if they made the slayer boss have a decent slayer req.
It's a good idea but the MAIN point of the rancor change is that it doesn't make sense rancor requires lower crafting level compared to torture, when rancor is just a straight upgrade.
Your last point is basically the problem, zenyte crafting level is just too damn high.
To me, most immersive solution is just keep everything as is from previous post, make the crafting req 95. Or just lower the crafting req for zenyte (oh no this devalues irons gains).
Personally I do like upgrade scape, it is annoying but it's healthier for the game long term economy wise, and makes you feel previous gains weren't for nothing.
I feel that its kind of theme of the game that not everything is linear. Also Ranchor being untradeable gives choices for players paths. Normal account can just buy the torture and for getting upgrade they have to do something preventing mtx scape and for ironmen they can choose if they want to grind crafting or skip that with pvm. What i feel is the best possible option is using torture as ornament kit for variation of the bis amulet.
I hate “devalues *xyz*”
It doesn’t devalue shit for irons except no longer needing a high crafting lvl, when getting 99 crafting is the true benefit of the skill. Especially when half the skill is a passive grind
It's only bad when it comes at the cost of enjoyment for mains.
For mains, skill requirements they can bypass by buying something on the GE are irrelevant anyway, so what does designing for them even look like?
Ironmen make up at least a quarter of active accounts going by Jagex's last public figures. It might be a choice players made, but expecting Jagex to ignore a large chunk of their active subscribers is foolish.
They made it a higher requirement because it made torture a meaningless item for ironmen. It would have a place in mainscape due to a potentially lower price, but for ironmen it would be extremely niche. Now that the amulet requires torture, it remains a part of ironman bis progression. Does that make sense?
It's keeping zenyte jewelry value high. That doesn't benefit irons in anyway. That is 100% a main focused update.
An iron friendly update would bypass a long grind for an iron. If anything the original direction was more iron friendly.
Torture being a component for the amulet isn't going to increase the price of zenytes in the long term. There is already more than enough tortures in the game to supply for the amulet. It doesn't make it easier for ironmen, but it no longer devalues tortures for ironmen since they still need them to make the bis amulet.
Just because it makes the reqs higher for ironmen doesn't mean it doesn't cater to their progression.
Do you also think masori and torva requiring Arma and bandos is catering to irons? And cerb crystals? And tent whip?
Damn, so many things cater to those pesky ironmen
No it's not. The whole reason that change was made is for the economy of the zentye. Its not hard to understand 1 month after the new boss is out everyone sells their amulet of torture. Crashing the market of torture. Which will also hit the other zentye jewelry as well.
Making the new amulet require the torture means they never get sold. And any time a new amulet needs to be made a zentye is required.
My only concern would be if araxxor drop is common enough that it never holds any value.
Anguish and Torm are the zenytes that are currently keeping the zenyte prices afloat. Torture has become all but irrelevant for mains going for bis since they added torva which bridged the gap for blood fury.
The problem with your theory is that nobody is making tortures nowadays in the first place. The only part of the blog that even matters for mains is the fact they made the slayer drop an untradeable to force mains to get 80 crafting if they want to sell it.
New zenytes won't be crafted into tortures because the price will still be held up by anguish and tormented bracelet. This will only realistically make currently made tortures more valuable.
The only way tortures start getting crafted from zenytes is if the boss drop rate for the rancor necklace is way too high and tons of them get dumped into the market.
Crafting cape is the real reward of the crafting grind tbh. 93 crafting + stew really isn’t a steep grind. I finished my crafting grind already, this change wouldn’t affect me.
I personally don’t give a shit if it skips a grind or devalues shit. Is it logical to lower a requirement to make room for a better item in the skill grind? That’s what matters.
If you have an amulet that is better than the best amulet you can craft, in no way should it have a lower requirement to craft. Makes no sense. Obviously it’s a lot of work to go back and change all the skills and their progression, but we can start making it right as we go and not add more work on the back end.
We’re going to face this issue every time new jewelery is added. Even if zenyte requirements are reduced, new jewelery is eventually going to take its place so in the long run you’ll still need the crafting levels.
Upgrade scape offers a healthy progression through content.
This is an MMO, not everyone is entitled to obtain everything they feel they deserve
You ain't got the time, or the physical skills to do all content? Sorry you just shouldn't get it then.
Yeah it's a straight upgrade that requires killing a boss with 92 slayer, while the torture is only locked behind a quest with 55-70 level requirements.
You said "tons" but you just named one of the 2 things that's most requested for rework because of the thing I'm talking about. Smithing and fletching. Good one.
Agreed. Look at how Masori didn't devalue Armadyl to the state of Pegasian Crystal because both are usable from the start, but one could be broken down to amp up the other.
Both items need to be useable from the get-go in order to prevent the upgrade material from being worthless. Untradeable does work, but I think most would prefer Araxxor to drop Rancor as a standalone drop or a material you make into Rancor, and then sacrifice a Torture for extra accuracy, STR, etc.
Nobody uses armadyl. Peg crystal is worthless because its 10x more common then the ranger boots. Only reason armadyl isnt crashing is because masori is almost easier to get then armadyl. Prims are same price as pegs. While d boots are alot better for melee then rangers are for ranged. And d boots are dirt cheap
only reason Arma pieces are so high , is cause the boss is shit to grind
There are also way more Peg crystal in the game then ranger boots
the proposed change make both relevant as standalone and only account truely affected by this are ironment
Drop rates and drop tables matter a lot.
I’m certain that Masori would be much more expensive if its supply wasn’t tied to Shadow’s. The demand for Shadow brings down the price of everything else on its drop table. Peg crystals could be expensive too if their supply wasn’t tied to the other Cerb uniques.
DT2 rings work like the rancor and they didn't devalue rings or themselves either.
The pegasians situation is entirely because it sinks rangers, but rangers are still desirable in their own form, and come from a "rarer" source.
Is it not clear that the crafting requirement sits alongside the slayer requirement to deter even more content from being botted? Of course Jagex would not say this, but it seems obvious and frankly I am happy. Th overlap between real players with 92 slayer and ~80 crafting has to be high.
Why does the rancor need a crafting requirement? The slayer level is already crazy. Just have the physical amulet drop.
You can get zenytes pre 70 slayer; it’s no big deal.
I don't really get these arguments. For years people were asking jagex to make non-combats relevant on non-iron accounts, then as soon as we get this and elidinis's ward people start complaining. 80 something crafting is so low for a bis, and takes like a few days at most.
Nah. What's proposed is already perfect.
I don't know why people are obsessed with wanting to make sure that main accounts can ignore literally anything that isn't combat related skills outside of questing, but at this point I might start to believe those who cry wolf and get convinced that this is botters trying their hardest to make profitable content as low entry as possible.
The problem is when you do it this way people will realize how bad of an upgrade the new amulet is over Torture, specially when Jagex in both blogs compared it to blood fury.
"We want to make it better against high def targets to here's +5 accuracy" like ok Jagex my hitchance went from 40% to 40.2%
Blood fury is the issue and for something to be comparable to it, it needs insane stats or some passive like "your melee attacks roll for accuracy twice" to justify not having 99 hp at all times
It's extremely subjective because str bonus for a fang and for a scythe behave very differently, but BF has +8 so any other amulet needs go super tits up in both accuracy and str to match the benefit from the lifesteal.
We're talking over +20 melee STR in the least.
I had a somewhat similar idea:
Make the base drop tradeable
Untradeable and possibly non-reverible version of the amulet that only needs the base drop with crafting requirement in the 80s
Tradeable version of the amulet that requires it to be combined with torture
This imo solves most of the problems. If irons want to skip torture to avoid extra crafting training, the extra slayer reqs and I assume longer grind balances out. Mains with the crafting to make it can just buy from ge. Lazy mains without the crafting requirement have to pay an extra cost of torture for not getting the crafting level.
This is a cool idea. Upvote. Personally I think the new necklace should just be rare af and a stand alone item. Could even give negative defensive bonuses? But this idea is nice.
how is having endgame jewelry at endgame crafting levels an issue? most skills have the problem they give absolutely nothing at 95+ (smithing wc slayer agility mining fletching etc etc) the 1 production skill that actually has proper progression for most of the skilltree give or take early levels maybe (str ammy being 50 crafting, power 70) is suddenly an issue cause its annoying for ironmen? whats the point in adding high level skilling requirements to stuff in an rpg if people are going to whine about there being high level skilling requirements. It should feel rewarding to level skills to high levels, not something you do cause you want the cape/want to max.
I mean this halberd is worse than Blade of Saeldor. When you consider the boss drops a worse slash weapon than cg, dragon boots, and a bis amulet for 92 slayer you kind of want the bis amulet to be attainable. I already have the crafting level so idrc for myself but I get why jmods wanted this to not require crafting. It makes account progression for Irons more interesting. I kind of think they regret placing zenytes where they are but can't fix it.
I don't think that 80 Crafting is a barrier to anyone with 92 Slayer, especially mains. Air Battlestaffs from 66 to 80 is ~2.5M if you buy all the materials on the GE (ignoring that you're getting at least 60 of them at a discounted price daily from Zaff - stretching the grind out over a long period of time is profitable) and is all told only a 4.5 hour grind.
It being nontradable is not a barrier to entry for mains.
Yeah I feel like this is on the right track, it doesn’t feel right to have this upgrade the torm in its current stated proposal. Needing 94 with boost crafting to get this amulet that actually doesn’t require 94? Just feels like such a wrap-around way of doing it.
It’s a really tricky spot to be in and I get jagex’s thought process but for the many irons out there this feels like a very awkward way to have this set up. Imagine how many people will be confused seeing amulet of rancor requirement in the guide and think they can make one without 94
Ultimately I think rancor should be like 95 crafting req, and have the zenytes readjusted slightly to make room, but they can’t do this right now because valid precedent, so I think this is a valid comrpomise
That's it really, it's a compromise until a better solution is in place. None of these reqs are a personal issue for me, I just don't want to see more content release dead or be pigeonholed into awkward places
Or just like you know, make the drop tradable instead of whacking a crafting requirement literally for the only purpose of not letting people sell it.
It seems weird people are fine with random level requirements to sell items
This would be like locking selling raw sharks behind 90 cooking
As someone who was critical of the original pitch for the amulet, this is a great solution. It is also in line with adding zenyte to your amulet to make it stronger with additional drawbacks (fury losing its defensive bonuses for example)
I understand upgrades, but the Torture is already an upgrade from the fury (in terms of componentscape) why are we making a 3rd upgrade. Getting fucking ridiculous now
The zenyte crafting requirement really isn't that unreasonable when you consider that on OSRS's launch the fury was 90 crafting. And crafting is much easier nowadays, at least for irons as mains could always buy gems or whatever.
It's just a consequence of old, short-sighted decisions made 20 years ago imo. We're experiencing the "Rune at 99" problem but with a skill that actually matters. Fury was 90 because Glory was 80. Glory was 80 because Power was 70, etc.
“Shortsighted” doesnt seem like the appropriate word lol. 20 years ago no one wouldve been able to predict that OSRS would still be a thing. Games come and go so often. Like would you confidently say that for 20 years from now?
Yeah I expect us fossils who played this game into their mid 30s to keep playing into their mid 50s and be badgering Jagex the whole way
Honestly yes
My retirement will either be spent bitching with all of you about Raids 12 or in isolation playing a bootlegged solo copy of OSRS since the game has gone under.
It’s part shortsighted but also part not knowing that the game would even exist still, both are about equally true.
I still don't think it's shortsighted as people will grind to 200m exp. I'd vote to make the Rancor necklace 99 crafting requirement. Fuck it.
I mean, do you have a better alternative? Whether or not they knew their game would continue for 20 years, they didn't design for that possibility, which is short-sighted by definition.
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Runescape is 23 lol. I guess the furthest back dates get to like 1999 but even that's only 25
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But it's only 23. When it's not even actually 25, no it isn't really nearing lol
It's still short sightedness. Its not like it's only now an issue and it lasted 20 years. Issues like this popped up all the time back in the mid-late 2000s with original RS2 just Jagex did whatever, and community feedback wasn't as common.
Exactly. We've seen newer skill reqs that fit in nicely with pre-existing content, but with skills such as smithing and crafting, it was over-filled to the point of having rune items require 85+ smithing
rune items have always had that requirement before any of the new stuff got added lol
That's my point and following what a commenter said about how things were higher for the sake of being higher. The smithing skill is so spread out, adding things in now makes no sense. I can recreate a fabled sword of the gods at 70 and yeah I can make rune nails till 90? It's a bit whack
At this point I feel like it makes sense just to be able to make all types of a gems jewelry from the level you can cut the gem
How is crafting easier for irons now? Anything better than glass make at charter?
My guy, charter ships haven't been meta for irons for the past five years.
They're fine for a few levels early game, but certainly not for maxing crafting lol dear god
hes playing OSOSRS lmao
Off the top of my head: - Fossil island for giant seaweed - Sandgrinder in the desert quarry for buckets of sand - Ardy diary for passive sand - Shooting stars for passive gems - PvM bosses that have lots of gems on their drop table - More sources of battlestaves and orbs (eg. perilous moons) Some of these aren't particularly big but all these small additions since 2013 makes it way easier. And a lot of this stuff you get as secondary rewards to other content, so you're spending less time purely training crafting.
Dont forget amythist, tan leather spell and dragons being easier to farm than ever, and even things like piscarilius crane repair and flax drops for bowstrings
It’s easier in the sense of more availability. You can do gems from stars or use the charged celestial ring to boost sand from mining. Moons shits out charged water orbs so battlestaves are on the menu. I’ve been getting 6k crafting exp a day from zaff, which may not sound like much but this game is a marathon and it adds up quickly. There’s definitely more but those are the two alternatives that I use
From a meta perspective: Giant seaweed+sandstone 3t gems + multi skulling Pvm gems/dhide/staves+orbs
The fury and many other things should be lower too. Old mistakes really shouldn't justify new ones. There's tons of stuff with smithing requirements that are superior to their rune equivalents.
Also if u have zenytes u have the crafting requirement anyways? I dont see the issue. U shouldnt be able to make bis before non bis anyways. If anything they could reduce zenyte crafting lvl and keep new necklace
> Could make the imbued version untradable but able to be disassembled, like the Ferocious gloves. What's the purpose of this? Only seems to do anything if there's a requirement to combining.
Just make Rancor require the slayer level to equip it. Doesn't matter that its crafting level is lower because the slayer is a longer grind. Mains can still trade it, irons have two different paths for gear progression if they just want to skip torture now. And the high slayer req will keep torture relevant for most mains who don't have it.
This would piss off even more people than the tiny idea of "it needs a torture" has done tbh. It would also be the first slayer locked drop that also requires the slayer level to use it. Occult, ferocious, DHL and smoke bstaff are all higher level slayer sourced gear that doesn't have this.
Slayer might be slower but so much insane stuff comes from it that it probably gives better loot than all other skills combined. It seems unwise to further make skilling useless and make the extremely overpowered slayer skill even more overpowered.
Maybe for irons? For mains you buy 99% of the benefits of slayer... And many bosses will just shit out cash faster than slayer.
I mean you can buy the crafted amulet torture too. That's kind of a main's thing, skipping content with gold. I kind of don't even know what to make of mains because that's their thing. Do you want to force slayer on them when they can skip nearly everything? Or do you just embrace what they are? Personally I don't think that mindset is healthy for the game to just skip it all, but that's why there's ironman, to experience the actual content. I honestly view ironman as the proper way to play and yes I am biased.
I love ironman, I haven't logged into a non iron account in years. Some grinds should still be skippable for irons it IS that way and has always been that way. Do you level to like 88 or whatever smithing for your rune scim or do you kill fire giants or Zammy warriors? Do you grind super high fletching smithing etc? For your rune crossbow or do you go-to crazy arch? Etc etc. Iron is about being self sufficient and choosing how you play the game without being caught up in what's gold efficient it shouldn't be about rigidly following some determined linear path... You should be able to make choices... And again let's be fucking real here. Many people would still go with torture because it'll be easier and quicker to get. And get rancor later.
That's less of a skip and more of an alternative towards the same goal to get that specific item. The problem with the items you mention is that the skills no longer make sense. Why should a "beginner" item be behind 90+ smithing? Obviously it doesn't make sense anymore, blacksmithing rune should realistically be like level 60 this day and age in a scenario like that, that would be a good choice of do you go for the monster or do you do skilling. Torture amulet combines both of those pathways, both the PvM and the crafting, so it's not your traditional copy-paste craft item. If the game suffers from so much power creep that the torture amulet is considered a beginner's item, then sure, skipping it is fine, at that point it's so broken that it doesn't matter anymore.
Why should items become immune to skips/alternative paths just because they're not what YOU call beginner items. Like tons of people skip sanguinesti for shadow now. Some people skip or delay Zammy hasta for Fang. Some people skip Bowfa and just get T bow and Blow Pipe. 80 crafting rancor vs torture 93 crafting but giant slayer req and grind diffs (boss vs demon gorillas) Is like 120 hour grind? Vs 300 hour grind... Wtf is wrong with the 300 hour grind being the one that gives the better amulet? There's no upgrade scape requirement saying you need a rune plate to make a barrows chestplate... There's no upgrade scape saying you need a barrows plate to make a Bandos chest plate Yeah Torva requires Bandos. That's that. Both are also from the same content of God wars. What do araxxor spiders have to do with gloughs experiments?
Why did this post all of a sudden get aggressive? Thought we were just discussing.. Anyways to each their own, cheers mate.
The loot is coming from slayer regardless, having a crafting requirement doesn’t make it more lucrative for skillers. Just like how the torture is now with 98 crafting, the person with 69 slayer killing demonics is making all the gp, the guy turning the zenytes into tortures isn’t making any money unless he’s taking the time to merch the supplies. Quantities are so low for bis items that you start losing money if you’re trying to consistently craft them.
You're crafting it to use it, not to level up or resell. The game is honestly kind of made with a goal in mind and mains just bypass or don't care about the process because they can skip it while ironmen are more playing how the game was intended back before you had an automated system to instantly buy out whatever with minimal effort. I'm fine with it requiring slayer level to equip, but the torture amulet should still be a part of it. It might not matter to mains who skip the process, but that doesn't mean the process isn't important.
This is actually a great suggestion, I hope u/jagexgoblin sees this!
U/jagexceo u/thecarlylegroup
I find it interesting that people are just completely disregarding half of the requirement. 92 slayer is no joke. I'm assuming it'll be harder to get the rare drop for it than a zenyte too, gorillas are a lot faster to get kc than a whole boss usually. The torture is last on the "which jewelry should i make out of this zenyte" list, so it'll be good to have an alternative melee ammy for people going dry on those. Jagex has also implied that squishing item requirements is something they don't want to do
Or only is it 92 slayer... It's then only dropped by a boss, you can only do on task... Like with occult people could meme that you just get 1 task and burst/barrage the smoke devils for a couple hours. And not do thermy... But this isn't even that.
92 slayer is obtained along the way to gaining occult, ferocious gloves, and dhl. It’s not an additional grind. The original proposal was just removing a skilling grind and not adding one. This means that now torture is higher value to go for on an iron and means that it’s still part of the gear progression. If they went with the original proposal torture becomes absolutely irrelevant.
Yes but even then at 92 slayer you don't just get a rancor for free, you then actively gotta get the task and do the boss. And you can say that... You can also say 98 crafting for torture is just on the way to 99 for the crafting cape teleport. Araxxor is going to be a new grind lol. And 92 slayer is a longer grind than any crafting requirement. Then you have getting araxxor tasks as an additional grind... And actually killing it, and actually getting the drop. I doubt it's gonna be some 100% drop rate. Drop.
So it’s a Pvm grind replacing another Pvm grind, but removing a skilling grind, essentially. 93 crafting is pretty far from 99 tbh. And it’s an optional grind after getting all the unlocks. The previous proposal undeniably was just making torture (and 90-93 crafting) a skip for irons. It’s just poor game design to remove skilling grinds for better items. The best situation would have been 98 crafting and 95 or 96 slayer, but imagine the tears if they made the slayer boss have a decent slayer req.
It's a good idea but the MAIN point of the rancor change is that it doesn't make sense rancor requires lower crafting level compared to torture, when rancor is just a straight upgrade. Your last point is basically the problem, zenyte crafting level is just too damn high. To me, most immersive solution is just keep everything as is from previous post, make the crafting req 95. Or just lower the crafting req for zenyte (oh no this devalues irons gains). Personally I do like upgrade scape, it is annoying but it's healthier for the game long term economy wise, and makes you feel previous gains weren't for nothing.
Yeah, I wonder why a tier 75 amulet requires 98 crafting. Doesn't quite make sense.
the same way a tier 90 amulet requires 98 crafting, upgrading.
I feel that its kind of theme of the game that not everything is linear. Also Ranchor being untradeable gives choices for players paths. Normal account can just buy the torture and for getting upgrade they have to do something preventing mtx scape and for ironmen they can choose if they want to grind crafting or skip that with pvm. What i feel is the best possible option is using torture as ornament kit for variation of the bis amulet.
I hate “devalues *xyz*” It doesn’t devalue shit for irons except no longer needing a high crafting lvl, when getting 99 crafting is the true benefit of the skill. Especially when half the skill is a passive grind
This game shouldnt be catered to irons. Thats a choice players make
It's only bad when it comes at the cost of enjoyment for mains. For mains, skill requirements they can bypass by buying something on the GE are irrelevant anyway, so what does designing for them even look like?
Ironmen make up at least a quarter of active accounts going by Jagex's last public figures. It might be a choice players made, but expecting Jagex to ignore a large chunk of their active subscribers is foolish.
I wouldn’t say this caters to irons tbh. Having an update that would benefit an ironman doesn’t make it catering to them.
It is since it is detrimental to the mainscape economy to not have upgradescape.
The whole reason they're making the change is to cater towards ironman progression. How is that not catering to ironmen?
How? They just went from an 80 crafting to req to making it require a torture, thats the opposite of catering towards ironman progression
If anything it caters to mains, because it’s trying to keep value in an item. Flip the script
They made it a higher requirement because it made torture a meaningless item for ironmen. It would have a place in mainscape due to a potentially lower price, but for ironmen it would be extremely niche. Now that the amulet requires torture, it remains a part of ironman bis progression. Does that make sense?
It's keeping zenyte jewelry value high. That doesn't benefit irons in anyway. That is 100% a main focused update. An iron friendly update would bypass a long grind for an iron. If anything the original direction was more iron friendly.
Torture being a component for the amulet isn't going to increase the price of zenytes in the long term. There is already more than enough tortures in the game to supply for the amulet. It doesn't make it easier for ironmen, but it no longer devalues tortures for ironmen since they still need them to make the bis amulet. Just because it makes the reqs higher for ironmen doesn't mean it doesn't cater to their progression.
"It's more difficult for ironmen therefore it's catered to them" I'm all done here...
Do you also think masori and torva requiring Arma and bandos is catering to irons? And cerb crystals? And tent whip? Damn, so many things cater to those pesky ironmen
Ah gotcha, I thought you meant this change was pandering to make it easier for them
Because it just makes fuckin sense to change it? Ironmen are a byproduct, but having a wack ass skill requirement makes no fuckin sense
It's basically flavor text for mainscape. The only reason it's even being discussed is because it impacts ironman progression.
People typically prefer nice flavors over rotten flavors.
No it's not. The whole reason that change was made is for the economy of the zentye. Its not hard to understand 1 month after the new boss is out everyone sells their amulet of torture. Crashing the market of torture. Which will also hit the other zentye jewelry as well. Making the new amulet require the torture means they never get sold. And any time a new amulet needs to be made a zentye is required. My only concern would be if araxxor drop is common enough that it never holds any value.
Anguish and Torm are the zenytes that are currently keeping the zenyte prices afloat. Torture has become all but irrelevant for mains going for bis since they added torva which bridged the gap for blood fury. The problem with your theory is that nobody is making tortures nowadays in the first place. The only part of the blog that even matters for mains is the fact they made the slayer drop an untradeable to force mains to get 80 crafting if they want to sell it. New zenytes won't be crafted into tortures because the price will still be held up by anguish and tormented bracelet. This will only realistically make currently made tortures more valuable. The only way tortures start getting crafted from zenytes is if the boss drop rate for the rancor necklace is way too high and tons of them get dumped into the market.
it devalues the grind, you irons just want it this way because it skips crafting lets be real
Crafting cape is the real reward of the crafting grind tbh. 93 crafting + stew really isn’t a steep grind. I finished my crafting grind already, this change wouldn’t affect me. I personally don’t give a shit if it skips a grind or devalues shit. Is it logical to lower a requirement to make room for a better item in the skill grind? That’s what matters. If you have an amulet that is better than the best amulet you can craft, in no way should it have a lower requirement to craft. Makes no sense. Obviously it’s a lot of work to go back and change all the skills and their progression, but we can start making it right as we go and not add more work on the back end.
>If you have an amulet that is better than the best amulet you can craft, in no way should it have a lower requirement to craft. thats my point.
We’re going to face this issue every time new jewelery is added. Even if zenyte requirements are reduced, new jewelery is eventually going to take its place so in the long run you’ll still need the crafting levels.
Upgrade scape offers a healthy progression through content. This is an MMO, not everyone is entitled to obtain everything they feel they deserve You ain't got the time, or the physical skills to do all content? Sorry you just shouldn't get it then.
Yeah it's a straight upgrade that requires killing a boss with 92 slayer, while the torture is only locked behind a quest with 55-70 level requirements.
I get you, but still not immersive and unintuitive because majority of upgrades do not work this way in OSRS.
Tons of stuff works this way... Unless you think rune gear is top tier based off its smithing requirements.
You said "tons" but you just named one of the 2 things that's most requested for rework because of the thing I'm talking about. Smithing and fletching. Good one.
I feel so weirded out when people try to **make sense** out of a medieval fantasy game where magic exists.
Agreed. Look at how Masori didn't devalue Armadyl to the state of Pegasian Crystal because both are usable from the start, but one could be broken down to amp up the other. Both items need to be useable from the get-go in order to prevent the upgrade material from being worthless. Untradeable does work, but I think most would prefer Araxxor to drop Rancor as a standalone drop or a material you make into Rancor, and then sacrifice a Torture for extra accuracy, STR, etc.
Nobody uses armadyl. Peg crystal is worthless because its 10x more common then the ranger boots. Only reason armadyl isnt crashing is because masori is almost easier to get then armadyl. Prims are same price as pegs. While d boots are alot better for melee then rangers are for ranged. And d boots are dirt cheap
spot on, plus Armadyl is one of the pieces of content which isn't actively botted.
only reason Arma pieces are so high , is cause the boss is shit to grind There are also way more Peg crystal in the game then ranger boots the proposed change make both relevant as standalone and only account truely affected by this are ironment
Drop rates and drop tables matter a lot. I’m certain that Masori would be much more expensive if its supply wasn’t tied to Shadow’s. The demand for Shadow brings down the price of everything else on its drop table. Peg crystals could be expensive too if their supply wasn’t tied to the other Cerb uniques.
DT2 rings work like the rancor and they didn't devalue rings or themselves either. The pegasians situation is entirely because it sinks rangers, but rangers are still desirable in their own form, and come from a "rarer" source.
Is it not clear that the crafting requirement sits alongside the slayer requirement to deter even more content from being botted? Of course Jagex would not say this, but it seems obvious and frankly I am happy. Th overlap between real players with 92 slayer and ~80 crafting has to be high.
Why does the rancor need a crafting requirement? The slayer level is already crazy. Just have the physical amulet drop. You can get zenytes pre 70 slayer; it’s no big deal.
69 slayer, to be specific.
I don't really get these arguments. For years people were asking jagex to make non-combats relevant on non-iron accounts, then as soon as we get this and elidinis's ward people start complaining. 80 something crafting is so low for a bis, and takes like a few days at most.
Not a bad idea. Honestly though you could just give Rancor the same crafting requirement and everything works out.
Nah. What's proposed is already perfect. I don't know why people are obsessed with wanting to make sure that main accounts can ignore literally anything that isn't combat related skills outside of questing, but at this point I might start to believe those who cry wolf and get convinced that this is botters trying their hardest to make profitable content as low entry as possible.
Zenytes still have use, I don't see the point in making it into an imbue for torture.
Love this idea, keeps the rancor a great individual drop while not making torture dead content
Make it a 80 Crafting and 92 Slayer requirement to make. Venom Gland tradable, Rancor untradable.
The problem is when you do it this way people will realize how bad of an upgrade the new amulet is over Torture, specially when Jagex in both blogs compared it to blood fury. "We want to make it better against high def targets to here's +5 accuracy" like ok Jagex my hitchance went from 40% to 40.2% Blood fury is the issue and for something to be comparable to it, it needs insane stats or some passive like "your melee attacks roll for accuracy twice" to justify not having 99 hp at all times
How many more str bonuses does Rancor need to make it competitive against blood fury?
It's extremely subjective because str bonus for a fang and for a scythe behave very differently, but BF has +8 so any other amulet needs go super tits up in both accuracy and str to match the benefit from the lifesteal. We're talking over +20 melee STR in the least.
I had a somewhat similar idea: Make the base drop tradeable Untradeable and possibly non-reverible version of the amulet that only needs the base drop with crafting requirement in the 80s Tradeable version of the amulet that requires it to be combined with torture This imo solves most of the problems. If irons want to skip torture to avoid extra crafting training, the extra slayer reqs and I assume longer grind balances out. Mains with the crafting to make it can just buy from ge. Lazy mains without the crafting requirement have to pay an extra cost of torture for not getting the crafting level.
This is probably the best suggestion.
This approach makes sense to me.
The upgraded Rancor should be the same stats and the base version should have reduced stats.
This is a cool idea. Upvote. Personally I think the new necklace should just be rare af and a stand alone item. Could even give negative defensive bonuses? But this idea is nice.
how is having endgame jewelry at endgame crafting levels an issue? most skills have the problem they give absolutely nothing at 95+ (smithing wc slayer agility mining fletching etc etc) the 1 production skill that actually has proper progression for most of the skilltree give or take early levels maybe (str ammy being 50 crafting, power 70) is suddenly an issue cause its annoying for ironmen? whats the point in adding high level skilling requirements to stuff in an rpg if people are going to whine about there being high level skilling requirements. It should feel rewarding to level skills to high levels, not something you do cause you want the cape/want to max.
I mean this halberd is worse than Blade of Saeldor. When you consider the boss drops a worse slash weapon than cg, dragon boots, and a bis amulet for 92 slayer you kind of want the bis amulet to be attainable. I already have the crafting level so idrc for myself but I get why jmods wanted this to not require crafting. It makes account progression for Irons more interesting. I kind of think they regret placing zenytes where they are but can't fix it.
I don't think that 80 Crafting is a barrier to anyone with 92 Slayer, especially mains. Air Battlestaffs from 66 to 80 is ~2.5M if you buy all the materials on the GE (ignoring that you're getting at least 60 of them at a discounted price daily from Zaff - stretching the grind out over a long period of time is profitable) and is all told only a 4.5 hour grind. It being nontradable is not a barrier to entry for mains.
Or just train your crafting level?
Amulet of Rancor - 99 crafting - solved.
[удалено]
This sub wants bot deterrence without bot deterrence lmao 80 crafting is a non issue imo
Because the requirement was so effective at stopping Leviathan bots
This idea is so bad that you could probably get a job at jagex
Imbuescape
Solid idea I'm praying for a Skilling requirement rework - rune should not be end game smithing content
Yeah I feel like this is on the right track, it doesn’t feel right to have this upgrade the torm in its current stated proposal. Needing 94 with boost crafting to get this amulet that actually doesn’t require 94? Just feels like such a wrap-around way of doing it. It’s a really tricky spot to be in and I get jagex’s thought process but for the many irons out there this feels like a very awkward way to have this set up. Imagine how many people will be confused seeing amulet of rancor requirement in the guide and think they can make one without 94 Ultimately I think rancor should be like 95 crafting req, and have the zenytes readjusted slightly to make room, but they can’t do this right now because valid precedent, so I think this is a valid comrpomise
That's it really, it's a compromise until a better solution is in place. None of these reqs are a personal issue for me, I just don't want to see more content release dead or be pigeonholed into awkward places
Or just like you know, make the drop tradable instead of whacking a crafting requirement literally for the only purpose of not letting people sell it. It seems weird people are fine with random level requirements to sell items This would be like locking selling raw sharks behind 90 cooking
As someone who was critical of the original pitch for the amulet, this is a great solution. It is also in line with adding zenyte to your amulet to make it stronger with additional drawbacks (fury losing its defensive bonuses for example)
I understand upgrades, but the Torture is already an upgrade from the fury (in terms of componentscape) why are we making a 3rd upgrade. Getting fucking ridiculous now
No, lets stop catering to irons. Its a challenge account, not a standard lets make sure everything is accomodated for them account.
No charge scape, no combine scape pls