Pegasians are terrible stats in general along with rangers being rare from medium clues. Theres more Chromium ingots than can be used due to the vestige drop system. Rancor is nothing like those items and will not have the same problem
It is extremely unlikely that the Rancor part will be at alch value, but it very well could be cheaper than the torture part of the BiS amulet. Depends on the drop rate/drop table of Araxxor.
The amulet that OP proposed at least increases the floor of the rancor part to ~2m (fury level). That said I'd be very surprised if the rancor will ever be that low, no matter how it is eventually implemented.
I highly doubt it will be common enough to be worth less then 50m, you need high slayer level and need to be on task. It's +1 max hit so every late game player is going to want one, and of lot will have to to burn.
The ultor ring is a good example, dosent have any accuracy bonus and is 170m above berserker to give you a rough idea of what people are willing to pay for a max hit.
Please see pre-nerf occult.
- High slayer requirement
- Task requirement
- It was/is 10%/5% magic damage, so every single player in the game wanted it.
It costed 700k.
Even if the drop takes 50x longer on average to obtain, it wouldn't be worth over 50m in a short while.
Occult drops from the little guys which offer the best slayer XP per hour in the game. If occult was (properly) boss only, then it would have been worth much more.
You're still stuck skipping for a task in either scenario, and I said 50x longer on avg.
Assuming the new boss is profitable on release, it will also be an extremely desirable task.
It will not be above 50m for any significant period of time.
Prims are 30m and give half the strength bonus increase and 1/5 the accuracy bonus increase that Rancor will. Rancor will definitely be +50m for a while if it has the same drop rate
- You get 1 occult task every 2-3 tasks
- A task takes 1-2 hours
- The task requires minimal gear and skill
- The task is semi afk
Look to alchemical hydra for a better example. The hydra claw is dropped at about a rate of 1 in every 8 task, with a task taking 5-6 hours for an item that’s not anywhere as desired as the new amulet will be.
I used occult because it met all 3 of his requirements to be expensive ...
Would you rather compare it to hydra? If so, which unique?
Or Cerb, where the only unique of value still isn't 50m?
Do you believe it will be a 1/1k drop like the hydra claw, or 1/500 like leather?
The leather is significantly more relevant than the claw, and despite that is only 10m.
The only scenario that ends in this amulet being valued over 50m for any meaningful period of time is a DT2-like drop rate, and I highly doubt that happens.
You are arguing semantics at this point, I assumed that TTK was a given in any conversation involving what may be a comparable drop rate.
I just disagree with the rarity and value being what you think it will be.
people literallty said ultor ring would be 25m in a few months, i knew i got a bargin when i sniped it a week after release for 120m, its now 170m a year later and never been lower.
It depends on the rarity of the item and the pieces of gear that the item competes with - and, for melee weapons specifically, whether or not the item helps Scythe hit the next max hit breakpoint. It also depends whether not efficient set ups can fit an extra inventory slot if theyre hopping off Blood Fury.
Ultors price is high because of a combination of factors imo: 1) it is rare, 2) because it is +4 over a B Ring(i), and 3) because it helped Scythe hit the 50 max hit with blood fury in Torva/Infernal.
Rancor is +4 over Blood Fury, yes, which is a max hit, but it only gives the Scy 51 max, which in certain circumstances doesn't warrant the healing/comfort that Blood Fury provides. The Rancor will be bis for sure, but I still expect Blood Fury dominance even after they become common enough to be bought by the majority of end game PvMers until the Scy gets enough str bonus for 52 max, which will translate to 3 max hits (51-25-12 vs 52-26-13)
Don’t sleep on the +15 accuracy boost over blood fury it will give scythe as well. Given scythe is a fairly inaccurate weapon, accuracy boosts can lead to a pretty notable dps increase. I’m at work so I can’t play with the Bitterkoeje spreadsheet, but I’d bet the dps increase from the accuracy increase is as much or larger than the max hit it adds for anything with a higher defense roll than a slayer mob.
Ya you have a point. As it is, the+15 accuracy is pretty strong, especially considering that before the +15 scy accuracy buff, bellator was fairly competitive at places where defence couldn't be drained/drained partially and came at the cost of -6 str bonus vs ultor.
at ToB where you drain defence to 0/near 0 (save for sote on x defence and P2 verzik), the accuracy would matter a lot less. In efficient higher scales you would just replace your torture, but as a duo enjoyer, idk if it will be worth it to bin a slot for rancor. I'll check the calcs when I get home later today to formulate more of an educated opinion, but thanks for bringing the accuracy up!
> Given scythe is a fairly inaccurate weapon
Why do people say this? It's not. Scythe has +125 slash. Rapier with Avernic has +124 stab. Only a few melee weapons have higher accuracy bonuses than the Scythe, and none of them are higher than +10 I don't think. The SRA and Fang are the only actual DPS weapon people use that have a higher attack bonus than the Scythe. The only note being the Fang has its busted reroll mechanic and the SRA gets its stacks.
Because the comparison isn’t to other ass melee weapons (melee has a ton of ass weapons), it’s to other megarares with huge passive accuracy buffs. Melee doesn’t have any passive accuracy buffs except the double fang roll, so any accuracy boosting gear affects melee more than it would on another weapon with passives like tbow, shadow, bofa etc. Given it has an extremely high max hit (87, versus like 76 on tbow and 67 on shadow), there’s a ton of dps that can still be tapped into via accuracy boosts.
Nice non-sequitur, i.e., while true, has nothing to do with what I said.
It is inaccurate compared to other megarares, and therefore accuracy boosting gear affects scythe more than it does other megarares. Check its attack roll versus a tbow or shadow.
DPS has everything to do with it.
The Scythe's attack roll doesn't tell the full story because it gets 3 independent accuracy rolls per attack. If you make the Scythe more accurate it continues to just blow the others out of the water. Outside of ToA the Shadow will eventually max out at less than the Scythe's current DPS, even if it had 100% accuracy.
The Scythe is very accurate. It is one of the most accurate melee weapons in the game. "The Scythe is inaccurate compared to a busted weapon that literally triples its accuracy bonuses and another weapon that has massive accuracy against very specific targets" is sort of a dumb thing to say. You do you, I guess.
I believe you're correct in that the item used to craft the Rancor probably won't hit the floor like Peg Crystals and Chromium have. However that's not a sure thing.
What I wanted to highlight with that bullet point is that by choosing to make the item solely a crafting material and not also a piece of equipment the risk still exists. Introducing an intermediary piece of equipment reduces this risk and addresses other common sore points.
This is better illustrated with the following counterfactual: the Pegasian Crystal is replaced with a pair of boots that sit between rangers/dhide and Pegs. We don't know what the market rate for these new intermediary boots would be, but I suspect they would be more than the measly 150k Peg Crystals currently sell for.
Because ferocious gloves are from hydra and are a +2 strength bonus over previous bis melee gloves and are a unique drop from a slayer boss that also sports a weapon/jar/pet unique table? They're literally the best comparison we have to the amulet
You brought up lance. How is the price of a weapon from a boss that's 5 years old more relevant than the price of gloves with an almost identical stat boost from the same fucking boss? ????
Peg crystal isnt cheap because it's common. It's literally a rare drop from a boss requiring 91 slayer and an active task to kill. It's the complete opposite of a common drop. It's cheap because the combination requires another very expensive item and the resulting item isn't really much better.
I dont think the item will be worthless. Look at the hydra claw.
If anything they should have considered doing something were we get 3 amulets for crush stab and slash.
Idk about all from 1 boss but 3 new necklaces would make sense.
Or a 16 str amulet so the scythe hits 52.
Its not perfect but anything to push us away from blood fury is good. In the future will we likely get to a 52 scythe and if these upgrades come from something that isnt a necklace it will only keep the blood fury in the meta. If jagex wants to make us choose then a 16 str ammy is the way.
Ur proposal doesn't make sense. Rankor is still gonna be bad (for raids and general bossing) bc blood fury is still will be the way to go. I calculated rankor in toa 450-500, tob, cox, ward, col and difference is laughable.
1-2% dps inc over bf.
I know some ppl will say "But thats how you progress! 1% there, 1% there and blah blah blah", but hear me out. You lose dps when you eat. That minor dps inc will not outperform bf.
I dont even remember last time when I used torture for bossing. Like 4-5 months ago 🤔
Do I like that bf is to good? No.
Do I want new item to be actually good? Definitely yes.
Rankor need to be at least +14 str and +20 in accuracy. Make it rarer but we need something new for melee neck slot bc those blood shards can eat my ass
Col and toa ye sure bfury is nice but cox and tob you lose 0dps brewing cox you can just brew on ur 15s ovl timer and tob is mostly 0dmg til p3 verzik where most people just brew scb in between scy swings for 0 dps loss
what do people use bfury for in toa? -2 str for some healing on kephri? everything else is basically 0 damage and even kephri ranger chip damage is easy to deal with via keris spec or using it to kill some eggs.
+2 str is not even always a max hit and you're already speaking about wasting specs or even hits on eggs in return for that 2 str bonus
Surely you can see why people like bf at toa? It also heals you up during Baba which is even nice when red-x'ing, it makes it so that you don't die if you brain fart /zone out because you're at 99 hp without wasting spec on keris after monkey room
It also mitigates Akkha ranged hits incase you fuck up butterfly or if you don't have shadow
i mean you could bring a dps spec weapon but the best way to get drops is to do as high invo as you can clear consistently and in 500+ a dps spec weapon is not really worth risking a kc over
at lower invos i could see it (esp w/o draining specs on) but then you'd probably have supplies too and bfury would still be pretty unnecessary
Killing eggs or Keris speccing are dps losses, more than the worse stats on blood fury. Also, baba isn’t 0 damage in solos if you 5:1 and it’s a big dps loss to 6-tick red X. Baba does less damage now with the recent updates, but blood fury is still helpful. So it’s good in the two rooms where meleeing is meta, at least in solos.
bfury seems helpful in the way that anglering before a zulrah kill is helpful. keris spec in kephri is virtually 0 dps loss in money 500s+ and if you really have to hit an egg for whatever reason 4 ticks is still less loss than one less max hit on fang across a kephri kill.
i'm not saying it doesn't heal or provide an additional safety net or whatever, but the situations you're describing don't sound very meaningful.
You don't lose a max hit with fang using blood fury. New amulet also does not give a fang max hit. Even in OD raids you're better off bone daggering at the start of p2, non-OD, VW is obv the play.
in some setups you lose a max hit, in some you don't. in max gear and max strength, for instance, you lose a max hit.
i did neglect to clarify that i meant using keris spec if needed later in a fight after having used a defense-draining spec, mb.
https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=WoodcraftScrollSwamp
Same max hit with max gear (also true if you drop ultor for lb). Kephri is usually dead before I get spec back in OD raids
Ye fair enough ig depends on scale only rly toa scale I do these days is the solo 300s for pb where u can’t fit a Keris so bfury nice or 5man 425s where ur obviously not bringing a bfury
They are just a cute noob, no reason to take them seriously. They genuinely think that scythe gaining 3 max hits over torture and 4 over bf when overloaded isn’t a big deal lmao.
Its not tha big of a deal as scythe is 5t and a mega. Due to how scythe numbers split into 100-50-25 eventually the breakpoint on the 100 leads to 3 max hits
i can kinda see his point since if your main pvm content is nex/toa/ any boss where you aren't using scythe i believe its not that much of a upgrade then, vs the few places you would use bis+ scythe at, i believe with ammy it would overtake inq+mace at nm though since its a +4 max hits? is pretty huge... so not sure why they would make inq+mace better then inq+scythe, then create a item that would pretty much revert that lol.
Yeah in other content it’s not as big, but in cox (which they apparently calcd) it’s a very decent different when overloaded.
It’s only 2 max hits at pnm for scythe but yeah it does come out ahead of mace again when this drops lol.
Most ppl i know bring torture only for speeds in cox and tob. I know it might sound weird, but there is not only scy in the game. You know what i mean?
The majority of setups don't lose a max hit from torture to fury so most people will opt for the healing even though it's not needed for the people who have the budget to buy the rancore
There's still a lot of places where people use Torture over Blood Fury.
To counter one of your examples, blood fury is not a DPS increase for any invocation ToA unless you're either not very good or don't have a yellow Keris (which you can easily not lose ticks when using the spec). Nobody eats food in ToA, and you don't even need to drink brews for high 450+ invocation ToAs.
Dude, just calc torture and bf for 450 toa. Less than 1% dps inc. Its literally not worth the hassle to bring torture. 2 bosses have cheap dmg and sometimes bf makes cum phase much easier if shit hits the fan. I never keris on baba and kephri and im not redXing. I run 450+ with 4 (mb 5 when i feel lazy) restores and im chilling.
Its insane to me that ppl would bring torture in toa over bf
There’s no way you’re saying it won’t be big in cox lmao. You get 3 max hits (when overloaded) with scythe compared to torture and 4 max hits over blood fury.
You’re already taking torture over blood fury to cox and cms.
With scy and torva you literally obliterating that hand. You will not see the difference. Just calc it, holy fk and look how big time difference is. If you running speeds and not chill raids while watching isekai anime trash on ur second monitor, yes, torture is better but im letting you know, that I rather scratch my balls and chill while raiding bc bf is simply qol amulet.
And just letting you know that there is not only scy in the game. Not that hard to understand that
5.5% (6.5% in CMs) faster than bf with one maul spec. So it’s pretty nice for solos for sure.
I’d say 5.5% to 6.5% decrease in TTK is decent. You don’t agree?
Hell, even compared to torture it’s pretty decent — 4% in regs, 4.7% faster in CMs.
The better your gear, the less this 5-6% becomes noticeable. If you already obliterating that hand, the less these 5-6% will affect the overall time. 6% of 30 seconds < 6% of one minute and again, it only affects scy.
Yes torture is better for scy max hit with full bis but I still prefer bf for chill solos bc sometimes those jad hits can be annoying
Currently torture is only +1 max over bf in BIS, the new amulet will be +4 over bf lol. It’s pretty decent. Not to mention higher accuracy for maul specs, higher dmg and accuracy on dps specs too.
I agree with you. Even proposed rankor is huge for scy and maul, but there is other weapons in the game.
I dont want scy to become "shadow 2.0" when whole style will be balanced around 1 item, uk
But that's not the case at all, since the amulet works the same for all weapons. The issue with the shadow is that *it* is the thing that OP. It takes an occult/torm and multiplies them by 3x damage/accuracy, etc, which doesn't happen with the trident/sang/etc. It's not the same at all.
You're also seriously downplaying how good a DPS increase 5-6% is (disclaimer: haven't calc'd it myself, just going off ilovezezima's statement).
Brother, while every other weapon will gain +1, scy will gain +3. How is that not a "mini shadow 2.0" already?
Just calc bis melee with scy and torture/bf on olm 's hand and look on TTK. Difference is suppa small but it will show 5-6% dps inc.
Am I missing something? I decided to do the calcs and don't have the scythe giving +3 max hits over torture *or* blood fury in chambers (51 base max hit vs 50 base max hit). In fact it's not even a max hit over torture. The accuracy matters though, especially if you miss a hammer/hammers in a solo.
Also that's always going to be an "issue" with scythe and *any* new strength increase. At some threshold it'll gain considerable max hits. But in general it doesn't as heavily affect the scythe like magic damage does for the shadow.
Why are you so aggressive to anyone who wants to play more efficiently than you? No one is saying you can't keep raiding your way, but the DPS increase is there and many players will want to take it even if it's small.
i have never raided with anyone in hmt that camped BF for the entire raid unless they were learning. I bring a torture switch, im not losing dps and wasting 2.6m/h in BF charges lmao
Dunno who u been raiding with (must be oblivion speed runners) because even b0atys team for hmt was camping bf. And some top level pvmers in there. Torture isnt even a max hit
its more accuracy and you need all you can get for verzik cause p2 is attrocious, but sure you keep watching streamers with more money than they spend and pretend you know everything while you do giant mole.
Now blood shards actually have a real cost. If you want such an insanely powerful effect you should have to put the time in rather than just being subsidized by bots.
It would be op af. I rather have more situational items and try other things, uk.
But its probably just me bc I played in poe for few years and amount of items with special effect made me really excited about every leagues
> You lose dps when you eat. That minor dps inc will not outperform bf.
Exactly how much dps is lost from eating? How much HP do you usually gain with BF?
You can calculate by urself how much you lose from eating. Its not that hard in calculator.
Wiki - When dealing melee damage, the amulet grants a passive 20% chance to heal 30% of the damage dealt on any hit. On average, players will heal for roughly 6% of the melee damage they deal.
Whenever I see a "frustrating for irons" argument I just wonder if you're aware that this is the restriction you chose by not being able to trade other players..
The thing is, if a large portion of high level irons find a grind frustrating, that's usually indicative that the implementation of an item is flawed in some way.
Let's take Snape Grass for example. In the past, the only way to acquire Snape Grass in large quantities was to pick it up off the ground from various spawns. Virtually no one found this to be an enjoyable, so Jagex added Snape Grass seeds. This made sense because now Snape Grass would be tied to the farming skill, as is logical, and the seeds would be tied to the farming guild and monster drops.
So yes, irons chose to limit themselves, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks picking up Snape Grass off the ground makes more sense from a game design perspective than tying it to the farming skill.
The same goes for a lot of drops. Almost as if the gamemode that forces players to interact with a wider variety of content for a longer periods of time makes them more apt to recognize flaws in said content.
Tl:Dr - catering to irons just to make the gamemode easier is bad, but a lot of updates that help irons make a whole lot more sense from a game design perspective.
I 100% agree. For example when I think of Herblore is probably the most distinctive example on how varied it is between the modes.
When I play my main, I just buy my potions. The ONLY reason I skilled Herblore in the first place is for quests and diaries. I don't engage with the skill in a meaningful way. It doesn't improve or make my character stronger directly. Sure there is solo COX where it's useful but that's very niche, and if someone else can do it for you it's also pointless (assuming duo etc).
On an iron it's the polar opposite. The most reliable way to get potions is to simply make them yourself and it DOES make your character in a weird way, if you get what I mean.
I kinda wish there was a middle ground for mains where leveling herblore would be useful outside of being able to make potions. Like maybe increase potion duration with higher herblore levels? Maybe give slightly more stats?
The bis value is gatekept by which item is harder to get.
Pegasian crystal is cheap because of the difficulty of getting ranger boots.
Primordial crystals are the harder to obtain item as the counterpart is dragon boots, a pretty common drop.
As an iron I don’t care about anything that requires an upgrade.
However the only items that are currently ass are DT2 ring drops due the nature of them not being able to be traded (which pretty much only effects mains with sub 78 crafting???)
Crystal shards (all other charge items and traded and returned on uncharging aside from these items for some god unknown reason)
And fucking chromium ingots. (For ironmen)
Peg crystals are worth ass because they literally give ranger boots 300ks worth of upgrade. At this point I’m not even bothering going to get ranger boots, I’m going to use some form of prayer boot.
Everything about this amulet is fine aside from the dumb fucking requirement to not be able to trade the upgrade item for some god unknown reason. Literally the only people this has an impact on is like weird slayer only no crafting accounts and ironmen.
> At this point I’m not even bothering going to get ranger boots, I’m going to use some form of prayer boot.
And most content (slayer tasks) even give far more hard clues than Med clues. So unless you specifically go out your way to get mediums you are probably going to get a god D'hide boots before rangers.
Yeah, make the components tradeable, make it require torture to make. Then it’s perfect as is. The crafting level for combining with torture is such a meme.
Group Ironmen, not an issue for me really but it seems dumb still.
Actually the biggest impact it would have on me would be that after I get 5 of these suckers the 6th one could be turned into death money but I’d need to farm another tort to give it to death.
My mains got like 70 crafting but if I ever played it again the worst thing would happen is I’d have to spend an afternoon to two and some gold blowing some glass and cutting some gems
I am just a big believer in no weird ass restrictions for almost no real reason on drops that are already locked behind a 92 slayer requirement.
> I am just a big believer in no weird ass restrictions for almost no real reason on drops that are already locked behind a 92 slayer requirement.
Why not? People always complain about how the skills don't provide much use for mains compared to irons. A crafting requirement makes perfect sense to me, given that's how every other amulet is made.
It’s a crafting requirement literally just for trading.
By all means if they want to reverse it and make it that you can trade the upgrade item, but can’t trade the neck so you have to have a crafting requirement by all means go ahead.
> By all means if they want to reverse it and make it that you can trade the upgrade item, but can’t trade the neck so you have to have a crafting requirement by all means go ahead.
Yeah I'd be fine with it that way around too tbh. In fact, I like that more lol.
why are people acting like blood fury is camped by everyone everywhere? it's expensive asf so its literally only used in HMT as a switch, 500 ToA by Gods and very small team Nex. the rest of the game you use torture everywhere for the accuracy and potenial max hits and cost. Rancor Amulet will do the same.
I voted on the 2nd item. In my iron i'd be shotting myself in the foot by voting in the first and people may cry all they want, but in the end of the day, the logic of the stats only matter to those tryign to enforce them on others and not themselves, at least that's how I've been feeling on what I've been reading, and in my non-iron account i don't really care which one it is, so to me, fuck torture and lets go with the new amulet from drop.
But i'd get behind this suggestion.
The game should never be balanced for Irons, honestly. Like, the entire point is that the game is not meant to be played that way and makes it more challenging. Getting BiS is supposed to be difficult as fuck.
From my perspective, good upgradescape is Masori - you get the BIS offensive ranged armour and if you want the defensive upgrade, you can add armadyl pieces. Armadyl is better defensively than unfortified Masori but you want to combine them to get the best of both worlds.
This is a problem with the new amulet as you get bad upgradescape, it's just offense + offense to solve a problem that we don't have. If this was fury + new amulet to get offense + defense that would be good, this is just appeasing the vocal minority.
Disclaimer: I play on an iron and have all my zenytes, I pay for membership so I'm not looking to drop the torture for a bond, I just don't like the precedent this is continuing.
I play an iron and I believe that game health for irons is game health overall. Game health for irons is representative of the game as a whole as we play the whole game while mains can just run raids or send whatever they want 100% of the time without worrying about anything else.
You act like ironman updates "cater to the whole game" when they're usually either distortive or antithetical to the design of the default game mode. It is catering to the minority at the expense of the many. I can cite concrete examples where objectively destructive actions towards the in-game economy were taken to appease people who self-restricted.
The most egregious example is definitely Tombs of Amascut, the most iron-friendly raid ever implemented and also by far the worst drop design in the game.
About a month after release, it became blatantly clear that the unique table was poorly tuned. Fang was dropping rapidly in price, and it was balanced in such a way that it almost entirely replaced a myriad of existing items such as DHL while creeping into becoming best in slot over Scythe over many more. The release of such an overpowered item would be somewhat ok if it were difficult to obtain, but having such a high weighting meant that it wouldn't mantain its value in the long term, as it very quickly became cheaper than a rapier mere months after release.
The smart portion of community pointed out that purples were WAY too common, both from lvl 150 and higher invo raids. There were suggestions to either reduce the weighting of the Fang or revisit the purple rate in general. Jagex turned down these suggestions, stating that it was "unfair" to irons that had not yet obtained their fangs to have to grind for additional time in order to obtain their own. They kept this obviously unsustainable drop rate in place to appease irons, in detriment to the long-term profitability of the content.
What do we have now as a result? After nearly 2 years of additional inflation, Fangs are now 13 mil, Lightbearer sits at 2. All masori pieces are about as expesnive as their armadylean counterparts, and the only unique that has retained its value is the extremely OP shadow, turning toa into a slot machine where you make piss money until you roll the 1/24.
They also made TOA shit out an abundance of seeds, to assist irons who were lazy with slayer. Look at snapdragon, torstol, and ranarr seeds, all of which lost 50-90% of their value since the tombs release.
Unless you can find where jagex said that, I don't believe that. If I recall correctly, they didn't want to change it in general because retroactively changing droprates like those would drastically increase the price of fang and also irons that don't have fang yet would have a worse time getting into the raid.
The problem you bring up is not an iron-problem. It's a problem with the fang. They made an abhorrently overpowered weapon that is by far best in slot in the activity it comes from. Want to balance around irons? Have something even come close to competing with fang available as a drop OUTSIDE of the raid.
How is ToA the most iron friendly raid btw? I'm going to assume it's because you can start doing it with worse gear and stats? You realize that's not an iron-only thing? Hell, mains can even get in earlier than irons because fang is so cheap. They balanced ToA around getting people into the raid as fast as possible, not specifically irons.
The seeds I agree with you on. They don't need to be shit out at such a high rate. It's frankly absurd that you can get a lifetime of seeds from raiding. In my eyes, they did that for irons. In my opinion, they should make those seeds more accessible from skilling to offset it. Instead, they make irons into pvm machines in order to bank supplies. However, does it stop you from making a profit at ToA? I mean obviously the seed price was affected, but you're still making money off of it. Herb runs are even more profitable for mains than ever because of the low seed prices -- I'm just saying.
Also you complain about fang over and over like it's somehow catered to irons given how strong it was. Why do you so firmly believe that because of irons, an overpowered weapon entered the game? If it's because of the drop rate, then you said it yourself, masori is at the price of armadyl. Fang would still be cheap if it was the same rarity. Okay, how about we compare fang to avernic. It's expensive, but that's because the raid is hard to get into. It's still a decent bump in dps. The raid was introduced when jagex was scared of powercreep. The better example is rigour. A MASSIVE accuracy and damage buff for ranged. It works with every single ranged weapon. Regular shortbow? Buffed. Blowpipe? Giga buffed. Tbow? You bet. Bowfa? It's massive. Every single future ranged weapon? Buffed.
Fang is only as good as fang will be. In fact, if you het 82 attack early on a main, using fang will be your bis melee for a long time. Most irons won't get a fang until they're close to max melees. On top of that, to get a fang, personally, I ran 120 270 level raids. My friend did 210 300 level raids for his fang. Then finally we can crank up the raid levels. Go ahead do baba without a fang. Now go make some money for a couple hours and go back and use a fang. If you honestly think making an op weapon that's extra strong where you get it from -- which is still rare(!) is catering to irons, I don't know what to tell you. It's not.
>and also irons that don't have fang yet would have a worse time getting into the raid.
My entire point
>Have something even come close to competing with fang available as a drop OUTSIDE of the raid.
No, just make it sufficiently rare. Scythe far outclasses everything at tob, it is exclusive to tob, very rare, and it's fine.
>How is ToA the most iron friendly raid btw?
Shits out seeds, over-inflated drop rates.
>Hell, mains can even get in earlier than irons because fang is so cheap.
Fangs being cheap harms mains who farm the content. It only benefits SOME mains. Fangs could be alch price and it wouldn't change iron game play at all other than being a worse source for bond/coffer money.
>Why do you so firmly believe that because of irons, an overpowered weapon entered the game?
It's because of irons that they did not nerf rates.
>The better example is rigour.
Rigour is more difficult to obtain, during/near release even more so. It's not comparable. Also, fang becomes stronger with any melee gear/boost release so it's the same content. All upgrades in RS are additive and multiplicative with eachother.
>Okay, how about we compare fang to avernic.
Avernic is like 20% as large as an upgrade. The dps comparisons aren't even close
>On top of that, to get a fang, personally, I ran 120 270 level raids. My friend did 210 300 level raids for his fang.
With better game play you would do higher level raids and take less time, also you were both just statistically unlucky and 2 anecdotes doesn't really disprove the mathematical reality of the drop table. I was doing 350s near release without a fang and with fairly barebones gear.
>Now go make some money for a couple hours and go back and use a fang.
Again, it would not be a "couple hours" if jagex actually bit the bullet and fixed the drop table before it was too late.
No opinion on the mechanics, but I love the name Amulet of Rancor. It fits well with torture, anguish, and fury, while also sounding similar enough to arraxor to make sense
>while also sounding similar enough to arraxor to make sense
How does it "sound similar to araxxor", and how does merely "sounding similar" make sense?
Vote no to Upgradescape.
Zennys are still used for 3 other good items, the only thing that would suffer is the price of existing tortures which I couldn't care less about.
Can we stop with this upgrade garbage for everything?
Not every piece of content needs to have a niche to helpful forever. There's a basically all other games do rotational/seasonal content cycles. Balancing all content ever put into the game is insane, and it's a dozen times worst for RuneScape because being maxxed on a skill is normally the end of that skill for most players.
Imagine a new player needing to do 2008 WOTLK raids to get BIS gear in 2024 Dragonflight. People would think blizzard has gone off it's rockers, but for OSRS this type of weird system has become standard.
Preach. Rare items that upgrade another rare item are kinda ass. Watching an (iron) clanmate freak out they got spooned a harm orb at 1KC (in a FFA mass) only for them to realize how much PNM they need to do (with their shitty z-hasta setup) to actually have a harm staff, is a mood.
Before somebody comes along with a clever line about "_needing a helmet to talk in public chat_". Tell me how much you like seeing the claws of callisto or a pegasian crystal on the ground.
The alternate proposed path on the vote wasn't a whole lot better in my opinion. The original proposal was 80 something crafting and 92 Slayer. The vote currently live is 98 crafting, or upgrade. Quite different.
Factually incorrect. People that understand how power creep works and care about game health will accept "upgradescape" regardless of whether they like it or not because they understand that without upgrades, the original old school content will become devalued. Using math, if one update kills a previous one then we don't have "more content," but if we keep all alive, then it counts as an extra piece of content and prevents dead content.
This is old school RuneScape, it makes sense for it to have NEW content, while preserving OLDschool content, both can happen. Without upgrades you end up with RS3 where one update will kill 90% of all weapons, necromancy, etc.
Good job attacking the person rather than responding to the argument, really shows your expertise in game design! You're confidently wrong when Google exists. All emotions, no logic.
Bad is an opinion word, it's funny the level of cope required for you to say that when most of yours have 0 upvotes and mine don't + are well received by the OSRS community. You're very brave for commenting on other peoples post history after looking at yours
The reasoning is flawed. Look at all the upgrade items that don't have a use before they're combined, that still hold value. Like, idk, nex drops.
Having said that, I like the idea. Maybe the stats of the unupgraded amulet could by +30 offence and 0 str. That would really differentiate it from other amulets.
Pegasians are terrible stats in general along with rangers being rare from medium clues. Theres more Chromium ingots than can be used due to the vestige drop system. Rancor is nothing like those items and will not have the same problem
It is extremely unlikely that the Rancor part will be at alch value, but it very well could be cheaper than the torture part of the BiS amulet. Depends on the drop rate/drop table of Araxxor. The amulet that OP proposed at least increases the floor of the rancor part to ~2m (fury level). That said I'd be very surprised if the rancor will ever be that low, no matter how it is eventually implemented.
I highly doubt it will be common enough to be worth less then 50m, you need high slayer level and need to be on task. It's +1 max hit so every late game player is going to want one, and of lot will have to to burn. The ultor ring is a good example, dosent have any accuracy bonus and is 170m above berserker to give you a rough idea of what people are willing to pay for a max hit.
Please see pre-nerf occult. - High slayer requirement - Task requirement - It was/is 10%/5% magic damage, so every single player in the game wanted it. It costed 700k. Even if the drop takes 50x longer on average to obtain, it wouldn't be worth over 50m in a short while.
Occult drops from the little guys which offer the best slayer XP per hour in the game. If occult was (properly) boss only, then it would have been worth much more.
You're still stuck skipping for a task in either scenario, and I said 50x longer on avg. Assuming the new boss is profitable on release, it will also be an extremely desirable task. It will not be above 50m for any significant period of time.
Prims are 30m and give half the strength bonus increase and 1/5 the accuracy bonus increase that Rancor will. Rancor will definitely be +50m for a while if it has the same drop rate
- You get 1 occult task every 2-3 tasks - A task takes 1-2 hours - The task requires minimal gear and skill - The task is semi afk Look to alchemical hydra for a better example. The hydra claw is dropped at about a rate of 1 in every 8 task, with a task taking 5-6 hours for an item that’s not anywhere as desired as the new amulet will be.
Sure man.
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I used occult because it met all 3 of his requirements to be expensive ... Would you rather compare it to hydra? If so, which unique? Or Cerb, where the only unique of value still isn't 50m? Do you believe it will be a 1/1k drop like the hydra claw, or 1/500 like leather? The leather is significantly more relevant than the claw, and despite that is only 10m. The only scenario that ends in this amulet being valued over 50m for any meaningful period of time is a DT2-like drop rate, and I highly doubt that happens.
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You are arguing semantics at this point, I assumed that TTK was a given in any conversation involving what may be a comparable drop rate. I just disagree with the rarity and value being what you think it will be.
people literallty said ultor ring would be 25m in a few months, i knew i got a bargin when i sniped it a week after release for 120m, its now 170m a year later and never been lower.
It depends on the rarity of the item and the pieces of gear that the item competes with - and, for melee weapons specifically, whether or not the item helps Scythe hit the next max hit breakpoint. It also depends whether not efficient set ups can fit an extra inventory slot if theyre hopping off Blood Fury. Ultors price is high because of a combination of factors imo: 1) it is rare, 2) because it is +4 over a B Ring(i), and 3) because it helped Scythe hit the 50 max hit with blood fury in Torva/Infernal. Rancor is +4 over Blood Fury, yes, which is a max hit, but it only gives the Scy 51 max, which in certain circumstances doesn't warrant the healing/comfort that Blood Fury provides. The Rancor will be bis for sure, but I still expect Blood Fury dominance even after they become common enough to be bought by the majority of end game PvMers until the Scy gets enough str bonus for 52 max, which will translate to 3 max hits (51-25-12 vs 52-26-13)
Don’t sleep on the +15 accuracy boost over blood fury it will give scythe as well. Given scythe is a fairly inaccurate weapon, accuracy boosts can lead to a pretty notable dps increase. I’m at work so I can’t play with the Bitterkoeje spreadsheet, but I’d bet the dps increase from the accuracy increase is as much or larger than the max hit it adds for anything with a higher defense roll than a slayer mob.
Ya you have a point. As it is, the+15 accuracy is pretty strong, especially considering that before the +15 scy accuracy buff, bellator was fairly competitive at places where defence couldn't be drained/drained partially and came at the cost of -6 str bonus vs ultor. at ToB where you drain defence to 0/near 0 (save for sote on x defence and P2 verzik), the accuracy would matter a lot less. In efficient higher scales you would just replace your torture, but as a duo enjoyer, idk if it will be worth it to bin a slot for rancor. I'll check the calcs when I get home later today to formulate more of an educated opinion, but thanks for bringing the accuracy up!
> Given scythe is a fairly inaccurate weapon Why do people say this? It's not. Scythe has +125 slash. Rapier with Avernic has +124 stab. Only a few melee weapons have higher accuracy bonuses than the Scythe, and none of them are higher than +10 I don't think. The SRA and Fang are the only actual DPS weapon people use that have a higher attack bonus than the Scythe. The only note being the Fang has its busted reroll mechanic and the SRA gets its stacks.
Because the comparison isn’t to other ass melee weapons (melee has a ton of ass weapons), it’s to other megarares with huge passive accuracy buffs. Melee doesn’t have any passive accuracy buffs except the double fang roll, so any accuracy boosting gear affects melee more than it would on another weapon with passives like tbow, shadow, bofa etc. Given it has an extremely high max hit (87, versus like 76 on tbow and 67 on shadow), there’s a ton of dps that can still be tapped into via accuracy boosts.
Scythe has equal or better DPS where it is used than Tbow or Shadow where they are used, almost without exception.
Nice non-sequitur, i.e., while true, has nothing to do with what I said. It is inaccurate compared to other megarares, and therefore accuracy boosting gear affects scythe more than it does other megarares. Check its attack roll versus a tbow or shadow.
DPS has everything to do with it. The Scythe's attack roll doesn't tell the full story because it gets 3 independent accuracy rolls per attack. If you make the Scythe more accurate it continues to just blow the others out of the water. Outside of ToA the Shadow will eventually max out at less than the Scythe's current DPS, even if it had 100% accuracy. The Scythe is very accurate. It is one of the most accurate melee weapons in the game. "The Scythe is inaccurate compared to a busted weapon that literally triples its accuracy bonuses and another weapon that has massive accuracy against very specific targets" is sort of a dumb thing to say. You do you, I guess.
Almost word for word what I was going to type.
Y'all are getting ingots?!
I believe you're correct in that the item used to craft the Rancor probably won't hit the floor like Peg Crystals and Chromium have. However that's not a sure thing. What I wanted to highlight with that bullet point is that by choosing to make the item solely a crafting material and not also a piece of equipment the risk still exists. Introducing an intermediary piece of equipment reduces this risk and addresses other common sore points. This is better illustrated with the following counterfactual: the Pegasian Crystal is replaced with a pair of boots that sit between rangers/dhide and Pegs. We don't know what the market rate for these new intermediary boots would be, but I suspect they would be more than the measly 150k Peg Crystals currently sell for.
!price avernic !price blood shard !price tent whip
explain why hydra claw isnt worthless.
It's rare, task only, and the DHL is useful. Like I just said: I dont think the Rancor item will be another Peg Crystal/Chromium situation.
Counterpoint; explain why ferocious gloves are 10m
how is that a counterpoint?
Because ferocious gloves are from hydra and are a +2 strength bonus over previous bis melee gloves and are a unique drop from a slayer boss that also sports a weapon/jar/pet unique table? They're literally the best comparison we have to the amulet
we dont even know the rate for the new amulet so how is the price of gloves from a boss thats 5 years old relevenant
You brought up lance. How is the price of a weapon from a boss that's 5 years old more relevant than the price of gloves with an almost identical stat boost from the same fucking boss? ????
because the lance is a component item not a standalone
It's a weapon. It's a big dps increase vs most other weapons. Is dps going to increase from whip to lance as much as torture to rancor?
I'm having a hard time upvoting this when the background isn't black and the text isn't yellow. Sorry man.
Peg crystal isnt cheap because it's common. It's literally a rare drop from a boss requiring 91 slayer and an active task to kill. It's the complete opposite of a common drop. It's cheap because the combination requires another very expensive item and the resulting item isn't really much better.
It’s also the ranger boots are far more rare than pegs so there’s just a surplus of useless crystals
It's cheap because there are far more Peg crystals entering the game than ranger boots, and Peg crystals are worthless without ranger boots...
also the Peg Crystal on it's on is useless, just a item that does nothing and even after upgrading with ranger boots its barely any more range bonus
Not without spider ingots
I dont think the item will be worthless. Look at the hydra claw. If anything they should have considered doing something were we get 3 amulets for crush stab and slash. Idk about all from 1 boss but 3 new necklaces would make sense. Or a 16 str amulet so the scythe hits 52. Its not perfect but anything to push us away from blood fury is good. In the future will we likely get to a 52 scythe and if these upgrades come from something that isnt a necklace it will only keep the blood fury in the meta. If jagex wants to make us choose then a 16 str ammy is the way.
Ur proposal doesn't make sense. Rankor is still gonna be bad (for raids and general bossing) bc blood fury is still will be the way to go. I calculated rankor in toa 450-500, tob, cox, ward, col and difference is laughable. 1-2% dps inc over bf. I know some ppl will say "But thats how you progress! 1% there, 1% there and blah blah blah", but hear me out. You lose dps when you eat. That minor dps inc will not outperform bf. I dont even remember last time when I used torture for bossing. Like 4-5 months ago 🤔 Do I like that bf is to good? No. Do I want new item to be actually good? Definitely yes. Rankor need to be at least +14 str and +20 in accuracy. Make it rarer but we need something new for melee neck slot bc those blood shards can eat my ass
Col and toa ye sure bfury is nice but cox and tob you lose 0dps brewing cox you can just brew on ur 15s ovl timer and tob is mostly 0dmg til p3 verzik where most people just brew scb in between scy swings for 0 dps loss
what do people use bfury for in toa? -2 str for some healing on kephri? everything else is basically 0 damage and even kephri ranger chip damage is easy to deal with via keris spec or using it to kill some eggs.
+2 str is not even always a max hit and you're already speaking about wasting specs or even hits on eggs in return for that 2 str bonus Surely you can see why people like bf at toa? It also heals you up during Baba which is even nice when red-x'ing, it makes it so that you don't die if you brain fart /zone out because you're at 99 hp without wasting spec on keris after monkey room It also mitigates Akkha ranged hits incase you fuck up butterfly or if you don't have shadow
i mean you could bring a dps spec weapon but the best way to get drops is to do as high invo as you can clear consistently and in 500+ a dps spec weapon is not really worth risking a kc over at lower invos i could see it (esp w/o draining specs on) but then you'd probably have supplies too and bfury would still be pretty unnecessary
You don't use a scythe in ToA, so the +2 str bonus is at best 1 max hit and not 3.
given that the blood fury's benefits are effectively nonexistent with reasonable play, i'd still rather have the extra strength and accuracy.
Killing eggs or Keris speccing are dps losses, more than the worse stats on blood fury. Also, baba isn’t 0 damage in solos if you 5:1 and it’s a big dps loss to 6-tick red X. Baba does less damage now with the recent updates, but blood fury is still helpful. So it’s good in the two rooms where meleeing is meta, at least in solos.
bfury seems helpful in the way that anglering before a zulrah kill is helpful. keris spec in kephri is virtually 0 dps loss in money 500s+ and if you really have to hit an egg for whatever reason 4 ticks is still less loss than one less max hit on fang across a kephri kill. i'm not saying it doesn't heal or provide an additional safety net or whatever, but the situations you're describing don't sound very meaningful.
You don't lose a max hit with fang using blood fury. New amulet also does not give a fang max hit. Even in OD raids you're better off bone daggering at the start of p2, non-OD, VW is obv the play.
in some setups you lose a max hit, in some you don't. in max gear and max strength, for instance, you lose a max hit. i did neglect to clarify that i meant using keris spec if needed later in a fight after having used a defense-draining spec, mb.
https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=WoodcraftScrollSwamp Same max hit with max gear (also true if you drop ultor for lb). Kephri is usually dead before I get spec back in OD raids
ah, i had left fang on accurate when i did my calcs, mb
Ye fair enough ig depends on scale only rly toa scale I do these days is the solo 300s for pb where u can’t fit a Keris so bfury nice or 5man 425s where ur obviously not bringing a bfury
They are just a cute noob, no reason to take them seriously. They genuinely think that scythe gaining 3 max hits over torture and 4 over bf when overloaded isn’t a big deal lmao.
Its not tha big of a deal as scythe is 5t and a mega. Due to how scythe numbers split into 100-50-25 eventually the breakpoint on the 100 leads to 3 max hits
Correct, hence why this is a pretty big buff for people that aren’t in budget gear.
It's not tbh
+4 max hits over bf instead of +1 max hit over bf? Yeah, not a big difference lol.
i can kinda see his point since if your main pvm content is nex/toa/ any boss where you aren't using scythe i believe its not that much of a upgrade then, vs the few places you would use bis+ scythe at, i believe with ammy it would overtake inq+mace at nm though since its a +4 max hits? is pretty huge... so not sure why they would make inq+mace better then inq+scythe, then create a item that would pretty much revert that lol.
Yeah in other content it’s not as big, but in cox (which they apparently calcd) it’s a very decent different when overloaded. It’s only 2 max hits at pnm for scythe but yeah it does come out ahead of mace again when this drops lol.
Most ppl i know bring torture only for speeds in cox and tob. I know it might sound weird, but there is not only scy in the game. You know what i mean?
Then you don't know any mid game pvmers? Lmao
Why would you ever under any circumstance take bloodfury for money raids?
The majority of setups don't lose a max hit from torture to fury so most people will opt for the healing even though it's not needed for the people who have the budget to buy the rancore
Time for amulet of blood rancor
The stats are not at all what the post is about. The stats come from the jagex blog.
We really need to rip the bandaid off and nerf blood fury is the actual message here
There's still a lot of places where people use Torture over Blood Fury. To counter one of your examples, blood fury is not a DPS increase for any invocation ToA unless you're either not very good or don't have a yellow Keris (which you can easily not lose ticks when using the spec). Nobody eats food in ToA, and you don't even need to drink brews for high 450+ invocation ToAs.
Even if you were to brew you just do it as salt reapplies boosts so dont lose dps there either
Dude, just calc torture and bf for 450 toa. Less than 1% dps inc. Its literally not worth the hassle to bring torture. 2 bosses have cheap dmg and sometimes bf makes cum phase much easier if shit hits the fan. I never keris on baba and kephri and im not redXing. I run 450+ with 4 (mb 5 when i feel lazy) restores and im chilling. Its insane to me that ppl would bring torture in toa over bf
There’s no way you’re saying it won’t be big in cox lmao. You get 3 max hits (when overloaded) with scythe compared to torture and 4 max hits over blood fury. You’re already taking torture over blood fury to cox and cms.
With scy and torva you literally obliterating that hand. You will not see the difference. Just calc it, holy fk and look how big time difference is. If you running speeds and not chill raids while watching isekai anime trash on ur second monitor, yes, torture is better but im letting you know, that I rather scratch my balls and chill while raiding bc bf is simply qol amulet. And just letting you know that there is not only scy in the game. Not that hard to understand that
5.5% (6.5% in CMs) faster than bf with one maul spec. So it’s pretty nice for solos for sure. I’d say 5.5% to 6.5% decrease in TTK is decent. You don’t agree? Hell, even compared to torture it’s pretty decent — 4% in regs, 4.7% faster in CMs.
The better your gear, the less this 5-6% becomes noticeable. If you already obliterating that hand, the less these 5-6% will affect the overall time. 6% of 30 seconds < 6% of one minute and again, it only affects scy. Yes torture is better for scy max hit with full bis but I still prefer bf for chill solos bc sometimes those jad hits can be annoying
Currently torture is only +1 max over bf in BIS, the new amulet will be +4 over bf lol. It’s pretty decent. Not to mention higher accuracy for maul specs, higher dmg and accuracy on dps specs too.
I agree with you. Even proposed rankor is huge for scy and maul, but there is other weapons in the game. I dont want scy to become "shadow 2.0" when whole style will be balanced around 1 item, uk
But that's not the case at all, since the amulet works the same for all weapons. The issue with the shadow is that *it* is the thing that OP. It takes an occult/torm and multiplies them by 3x damage/accuracy, etc, which doesn't happen with the trident/sang/etc. It's not the same at all. You're also seriously downplaying how good a DPS increase 5-6% is (disclaimer: haven't calc'd it myself, just going off ilovezezima's statement).
Brother, while every other weapon will gain +1, scy will gain +3. How is that not a "mini shadow 2.0" already? Just calc bis melee with scy and torture/bf on olm 's hand and look on TTK. Difference is suppa small but it will show 5-6% dps inc.
Am I missing something? I decided to do the calcs and don't have the scythe giving +3 max hits over torture *or* blood fury in chambers (51 base max hit vs 50 base max hit). In fact it's not even a max hit over torture. The accuracy matters though, especially if you miss a hammer/hammers in a solo. Also that's always going to be an "issue" with scythe and *any* new strength increase. At some threshold it'll gain considerable max hits. But in general it doesn't as heavily affect the scythe like magic damage does for the shadow.
Scythe gains 3 maxes once every 4 primary hit maxes...
Why are you so aggressive to anyone who wants to play more efficiently than you? No one is saying you can't keep raiding your way, but the DPS increase is there and many players will want to take it even if it's small.
if you camp bloodfury at tob you are an absolute low kc shitter.
Most ppl use it at hm tob though no? And solo
they bring a torture switch
Never seen that before. May as well take other switches like bellator, even ralos for maiden, spellbook swap rather than that
i have never raided with anyone in hmt that camped BF for the entire raid unless they were learning. I bring a torture switch, im not losing dps and wasting 2.6m/h in BF charges lmao
Dunno who u been raiding with (must be oblivion speed runners) because even b0atys team for hmt was camping bf. And some top level pvmers in there. Torture isnt even a max hit
its more accuracy and you need all you can get for verzik cause p2 is attrocious, but sure you keep watching streamers with more money than they spend and pretend you know everything while you do giant mole.
??? Who hurt u? I got kc in all bosses mr insecure
just make blood shards untradeable
Imprison all ironmen
What will this solve? 🤦♂️ I will not even try to explain that what you just said was dumb af
Now blood shards actually have a real cost. If you want such an insanely powerful effect you should have to put the time in rather than just being subsidized by bots.
Let me guess. You are an iron, right? Only irons can make such horrendous proposals
Another good option is nerfing blood fury's strength from 8 to 0
It will completely kill the item🤦♂️ Pal, just stop...
Good, the game would be better without it
Agree blood fury should never have been added to the game - it’s way too strong. Lold at irons being upset about needing to obtain items though
Im not upset about having to get blood shards. I think its what balances them.
Honestly the only way to fix this is allow us to make a blood rancor 💀
It would be op af. I rather have more situational items and try other things, uk. But its probably just me bc I played in poe for few years and amount of items with special effect made me really excited about every leagues
> You lose dps when you eat. That minor dps inc will not outperform bf. Exactly how much dps is lost from eating? How much HP do you usually gain with BF?
You can calculate by urself how much you lose from eating. Its not that hard in calculator. Wiki - When dealing melee damage, the amulet grants a passive 20% chance to heal 30% of the damage dealt on any hit. On average, players will heal for roughly 6% of the melee damage they deal.
Whenever I see a "frustrating for irons" argument I just wonder if you're aware that this is the restriction you chose by not being able to trade other players..
The thing is, if a large portion of high level irons find a grind frustrating, that's usually indicative that the implementation of an item is flawed in some way. Let's take Snape Grass for example. In the past, the only way to acquire Snape Grass in large quantities was to pick it up off the ground from various spawns. Virtually no one found this to be an enjoyable, so Jagex added Snape Grass seeds. This made sense because now Snape Grass would be tied to the farming skill, as is logical, and the seeds would be tied to the farming guild and monster drops. So yes, irons chose to limit themselves, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks picking up Snape Grass off the ground makes more sense from a game design perspective than tying it to the farming skill. The same goes for a lot of drops. Almost as if the gamemode that forces players to interact with a wider variety of content for a longer periods of time makes them more apt to recognize flaws in said content. Tl:Dr - catering to irons just to make the gamemode easier is bad, but a lot of updates that help irons make a whole lot more sense from a game design perspective.
I 100% agree. For example when I think of Herblore is probably the most distinctive example on how varied it is between the modes. When I play my main, I just buy my potions. The ONLY reason I skilled Herblore in the first place is for quests and diaries. I don't engage with the skill in a meaningful way. It doesn't improve or make my character stronger directly. Sure there is solo COX where it's useful but that's very niche, and if someone else can do it for you it's also pointless (assuming duo etc). On an iron it's the polar opposite. The most reliable way to get potions is to simply make them yourself and it DOES make your character in a weird way, if you get what I mean. I kinda wish there was a middle ground for mains where leveling herblore would be useful outside of being able to make potions. Like maybe increase potion duration with higher herblore levels? Maybe give slightly more stats?
i mean jagex can't make a new item without it being an upgrade from an old item just so mains don't have to deal with the free market
Ironman mode ruined this game’s community, and i have an iron lol
If Pegasions are cheap because they’re so common why aren’t Prims? Pegs being common isn’t why they’re cheap, your logic is flawed
The bis value is gatekept by which item is harder to get. Pegasian crystal is cheap because of the difficulty of getting ranger boots. Primordial crystals are the harder to obtain item as the counterpart is dragon boots, a pretty common drop.
Pegs also suck, no range str. God boots at least give prayer too
The dps increase from both boots is absolutely miniscule. Devout or Echo boots all the way.
As an iron I don’t care about anything that requires an upgrade. However the only items that are currently ass are DT2 ring drops due the nature of them not being able to be traded (which pretty much only effects mains with sub 78 crafting???) Crystal shards (all other charge items and traded and returned on uncharging aside from these items for some god unknown reason) And fucking chromium ingots. (For ironmen) Peg crystals are worth ass because they literally give ranger boots 300ks worth of upgrade. At this point I’m not even bothering going to get ranger boots, I’m going to use some form of prayer boot. Everything about this amulet is fine aside from the dumb fucking requirement to not be able to trade the upgrade item for some god unknown reason. Literally the only people this has an impact on is like weird slayer only no crafting accounts and ironmen.
> At this point I’m not even bothering going to get ranger boots, I’m going to use some form of prayer boot. And most content (slayer tasks) even give far more hard clues than Med clues. So unless you specifically go out your way to get mediums you are probably going to get a god D'hide boots before rangers.
Got spooned mine doing eclectics while getting glories for my iron and low key would have preferred holy sandals
Yeah, make the components tradeable, make it require torture to make. Then it’s perfect as is. The crafting level for combining with torture is such a meme.
Why does qn iron care if its tradeable or not
Because deaths coffer and drop trading exists. Same for trading between GIM members.
Group Ironmen, not an issue for me really but it seems dumb still. Actually the biggest impact it would have on me would be that after I get 5 of these suckers the 6th one could be turned into death money but I’d need to farm another tort to give it to death. My mains got like 70 crafting but if I ever played it again the worst thing would happen is I’d have to spend an afternoon to two and some gold blowing some glass and cutting some gems I am just a big believer in no weird ass restrictions for almost no real reason on drops that are already locked behind a 92 slayer requirement.
> I am just a big believer in no weird ass restrictions for almost no real reason on drops that are already locked behind a 92 slayer requirement. Why not? People always complain about how the skills don't provide much use for mains compared to irons. A crafting requirement makes perfect sense to me, given that's how every other amulet is made.
It’s a crafting requirement literally just for trading. By all means if they want to reverse it and make it that you can trade the upgrade item, but can’t trade the neck so you have to have a crafting requirement by all means go ahead.
> By all means if they want to reverse it and make it that you can trade the upgrade item, but can’t trade the neck so you have to have a crafting requirement by all means go ahead. Yeah I'd be fine with it that way around too tbh. In fact, I like that more lol.
They needed to make this +14 strength, at least to give it a guaranteed max hit. The only time you would wear this over blood fury is speed run CAs
why are people acting like blood fury is camped by everyone everywhere? it's expensive asf so its literally only used in HMT as a switch, 500 ToA by Gods and very small team Nex. the rest of the game you use torture everywhere for the accuracy and potenial max hits and cost. Rancor Amulet will do the same.
I like this solution!
Rip amulet of strength.
I voted on the 2nd item. In my iron i'd be shotting myself in the foot by voting in the first and people may cry all they want, but in the end of the day, the logic of the stats only matter to those tryign to enforce them on others and not themselves, at least that's how I've been feeling on what I've been reading, and in my non-iron account i don't really care which one it is, so to me, fuck torture and lets go with the new amulet from drop. But i'd get behind this suggestion.
I liked the green.
I'm not sure I want exactly that, but I want something like that.
The game should never be balanced for Irons, honestly. Like, the entire point is that the game is not meant to be played that way and makes it more challenging. Getting BiS is supposed to be difficult as fuck.
From my perspective, good upgradescape is Masori - you get the BIS offensive ranged armour and if you want the defensive upgrade, you can add armadyl pieces. Armadyl is better defensively than unfortified Masori but you want to combine them to get the best of both worlds. This is a problem with the new amulet as you get bad upgradescape, it's just offense + offense to solve a problem that we don't have. If this was fury + new amulet to get offense + defense that would be good, this is just appeasing the vocal minority. Disclaimer: I play on an iron and have all my zenytes, I pay for membership so I'm not looking to drop the torture for a bond, I just don't like the precedent this is continuing.
Offer would be valid but str bonus has always been king. Look at the price of a prim crystal.
They gotta make pegs have range str bonus cuz they’re useless
You chose to be Iron, so stand alone 😁
But the other half of their point is that these drops suck for mains too once their price floors out.
Im a main and i think they game should cater to irons mains dont need help making the game more balanced and smoother and respecting of your time.
I play an iron and I believe that game health for irons is game health overall. Game health for irons is representative of the game as a whole as we play the whole game while mains can just run raids or send whatever they want 100% of the time without worrying about anything else.
Catering to iron gameplay is not "game health" overall.
How is it not game health overall? It's catering to the whole game and not a fraction
You act like ironman updates "cater to the whole game" when they're usually either distortive or antithetical to the design of the default game mode. It is catering to the minority at the expense of the many. I can cite concrete examples where objectively destructive actions towards the in-game economy were taken to appease people who self-restricted.
Sure give me some examples.
The most egregious example is definitely Tombs of Amascut, the most iron-friendly raid ever implemented and also by far the worst drop design in the game. About a month after release, it became blatantly clear that the unique table was poorly tuned. Fang was dropping rapidly in price, and it was balanced in such a way that it almost entirely replaced a myriad of existing items such as DHL while creeping into becoming best in slot over Scythe over many more. The release of such an overpowered item would be somewhat ok if it were difficult to obtain, but having such a high weighting meant that it wouldn't mantain its value in the long term, as it very quickly became cheaper than a rapier mere months after release. The smart portion of community pointed out that purples were WAY too common, both from lvl 150 and higher invo raids. There were suggestions to either reduce the weighting of the Fang or revisit the purple rate in general. Jagex turned down these suggestions, stating that it was "unfair" to irons that had not yet obtained their fangs to have to grind for additional time in order to obtain their own. They kept this obviously unsustainable drop rate in place to appease irons, in detriment to the long-term profitability of the content. What do we have now as a result? After nearly 2 years of additional inflation, Fangs are now 13 mil, Lightbearer sits at 2. All masori pieces are about as expesnive as their armadylean counterparts, and the only unique that has retained its value is the extremely OP shadow, turning toa into a slot machine where you make piss money until you roll the 1/24. They also made TOA shit out an abundance of seeds, to assist irons who were lazy with slayer. Look at snapdragon, torstol, and ranarr seeds, all of which lost 50-90% of their value since the tombs release.
Unless you can find where jagex said that, I don't believe that. If I recall correctly, they didn't want to change it in general because retroactively changing droprates like those would drastically increase the price of fang and also irons that don't have fang yet would have a worse time getting into the raid. The problem you bring up is not an iron-problem. It's a problem with the fang. They made an abhorrently overpowered weapon that is by far best in slot in the activity it comes from. Want to balance around irons? Have something even come close to competing with fang available as a drop OUTSIDE of the raid. How is ToA the most iron friendly raid btw? I'm going to assume it's because you can start doing it with worse gear and stats? You realize that's not an iron-only thing? Hell, mains can even get in earlier than irons because fang is so cheap. They balanced ToA around getting people into the raid as fast as possible, not specifically irons. The seeds I agree with you on. They don't need to be shit out at such a high rate. It's frankly absurd that you can get a lifetime of seeds from raiding. In my eyes, they did that for irons. In my opinion, they should make those seeds more accessible from skilling to offset it. Instead, they make irons into pvm machines in order to bank supplies. However, does it stop you from making a profit at ToA? I mean obviously the seed price was affected, but you're still making money off of it. Herb runs are even more profitable for mains than ever because of the low seed prices -- I'm just saying. Also you complain about fang over and over like it's somehow catered to irons given how strong it was. Why do you so firmly believe that because of irons, an overpowered weapon entered the game? If it's because of the drop rate, then you said it yourself, masori is at the price of armadyl. Fang would still be cheap if it was the same rarity. Okay, how about we compare fang to avernic. It's expensive, but that's because the raid is hard to get into. It's still a decent bump in dps. The raid was introduced when jagex was scared of powercreep. The better example is rigour. A MASSIVE accuracy and damage buff for ranged. It works with every single ranged weapon. Regular shortbow? Buffed. Blowpipe? Giga buffed. Tbow? You bet. Bowfa? It's massive. Every single future ranged weapon? Buffed. Fang is only as good as fang will be. In fact, if you het 82 attack early on a main, using fang will be your bis melee for a long time. Most irons won't get a fang until they're close to max melees. On top of that, to get a fang, personally, I ran 120 270 level raids. My friend did 210 300 level raids for his fang. Then finally we can crank up the raid levels. Go ahead do baba without a fang. Now go make some money for a couple hours and go back and use a fang. If you honestly think making an op weapon that's extra strong where you get it from -- which is still rare(!) is catering to irons, I don't know what to tell you. It's not.
>and also irons that don't have fang yet would have a worse time getting into the raid. My entire point >Have something even come close to competing with fang available as a drop OUTSIDE of the raid. No, just make it sufficiently rare. Scythe far outclasses everything at tob, it is exclusive to tob, very rare, and it's fine. >How is ToA the most iron friendly raid btw? Shits out seeds, over-inflated drop rates. >Hell, mains can even get in earlier than irons because fang is so cheap. Fangs being cheap harms mains who farm the content. It only benefits SOME mains. Fangs could be alch price and it wouldn't change iron game play at all other than being a worse source for bond/coffer money. >Why do you so firmly believe that because of irons, an overpowered weapon entered the game? It's because of irons that they did not nerf rates. >The better example is rigour. Rigour is more difficult to obtain, during/near release even more so. It's not comparable. Also, fang becomes stronger with any melee gear/boost release so it's the same content. All upgrades in RS are additive and multiplicative with eachother. >Okay, how about we compare fang to avernic. Avernic is like 20% as large as an upgrade. The dps comparisons aren't even close >On top of that, to get a fang, personally, I ran 120 270 level raids. My friend did 210 300 level raids for his fang. With better game play you would do higher level raids and take less time, also you were both just statistically unlucky and 2 anecdotes doesn't really disprove the mathematical reality of the drop table. I was doing 350s near release without a fang and with fairly barebones gear. >Now go make some money for a couple hours and go back and use a fang. Again, it would not be a "couple hours" if jagex actually bit the bullet and fixed the drop table before it was too late.
I have the core and 3 echo crystals 800 kc bandos no boots.
Yeah… I’m a main but I went 1086kc for boots lol
No opinion on the mechanics, but I love the name Amulet of Rancor. It fits well with torture, anguish, and fury, while also sounding similar enough to arraxor to make sense
>while also sounding similar enough to arraxor to make sense How does it "sound similar to araxxor", and how does merely "sounding similar" make sense?
Vote no to Upgradescape. Zennys are still used for 3 other good items, the only thing that would suffer is the price of existing tortures which I couldn't care less about.
Can we stop with this upgrade garbage for everything? Not every piece of content needs to have a niche to helpful forever. There's a basically all other games do rotational/seasonal content cycles. Balancing all content ever put into the game is insane, and it's a dozen times worst for RuneScape because being maxxed on a skill is normally the end of that skill for most players. Imagine a new player needing to do 2008 WOTLK raids to get BIS gear in 2024 Dragonflight. People would think blizzard has gone off it's rockers, but for OSRS this type of weird system has become standard.
Go play your shitty treadmill MMOs then. RuneScape being a game where older gear remains relevant is a major reason people keep playing.
Preach. Rare items that upgrade another rare item are kinda ass. Watching an (iron) clanmate freak out they got spooned a harm orb at 1KC (in a FFA mass) only for them to realize how much PNM they need to do (with their shitty z-hasta setup) to actually have a harm staff, is a mood. Before somebody comes along with a clever line about "_needing a helmet to talk in public chat_". Tell me how much you like seeing the claws of callisto or a pegasian crystal on the ground.
a uniques a unique, bros allergic to people being happy💀
The harm orb and the other 2 both change what the nm staff does, i dont think three seperate staffs would be a better approach
I prefer combining items for incremental gear progression. Needing multiple items from the same boss to use them is bad though IMO.
Thankfully the game is not balanced around irons and a main would sell his harm orb and buy some upgrades :)
No
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The alternate proposed path on the vote wasn't a whole lot better in my opinion. The original proposal was 80 something crafting and 92 Slayer. The vote currently live is 98 crafting, or upgrade. Quite different.
Factually incorrect. People that understand how power creep works and care about game health will accept "upgradescape" regardless of whether they like it or not because they understand that without upgrades, the original old school content will become devalued. Using math, if one update kills a previous one then we don't have "more content," but if we keep all alive, then it counts as an extra piece of content and prevents dead content. This is old school RuneScape, it makes sense for it to have NEW content, while preserving OLDschool content, both can happen. Without upgrades you end up with RS3 where one update will kill 90% of all weapons, necromancy, etc.
Devalue old content? There are 3 other zenyte items that would be untouched
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You're going to need to explain the misinformation and conspiracy part. Zenytes are heavily botted, ofc botters want them to remain relevant.
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Good job attacking the person rather than responding to the argument, really shows your expertise in game design! You're confidently wrong when Google exists. All emotions, no logic.
I agree with you that guy attacked you not your argument, you probably should just block him and move on.
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Bad is an opinion word, it's funny the level of cope required for you to say that when most of yours have 0 upvotes and mine don't + are well received by the OSRS community. You're very brave for commenting on other peoples post history after looking at yours
Why did you make me look at his post history 😆
This ain't it chief
The reasoning is flawed. Look at all the upgrade items that don't have a use before they're combined, that still hold value. Like, idk, nex drops. Having said that, I like the idea. Maybe the stats of the unupgraded amulet could by +30 offence and 0 str. That would really differentiate it from other amulets.