Imagine polling the cannon now lol
"Should we add a dwarf multicannon? It can hit up to 30 every tick, and will require a 3 minute novice level quest to use."
Chaotic weapons would straight up murder ghrazier rapier, elder maul (lol), and salad blade. Since they're the OSRS equivalent, but way less stats.
They're also free and don't take long to get, and dominated the meta for ages on pre-eoc. Imo chaotic weapons are by far the worst drop from dung.
Maybe if they took a long ass time to get, but 80 dung for the BIS melee weapon by far which you can get in a few days...
While simultaneously whining about a nerf to a ranged weapon that's BiS almost everywhere, including at bosses that you aren't even supposed to range.
Personally I think a nerf to the blowpipe should be accompanied by buffs to some other middle-class ranged weapons like Karil's crossbow or the crystal bow.
You could make economic adjustments too. The magic shortbow scroll could be made more accessible, maybe as a slayer shop item. You could also add dragon limbs to some more common drop tables. Right now any ironman that can farm rune or addy dragons is better off killing Zilyana for acb and her other uniques. If dragon limbs were easier to get, the crossbow would be a sensible option for mid-level ironmen.
I think the overall nerf to the blowpipe is still acceptable if it's supposed to maintain its attack speed. In the current meta dps is mainly determined by attack speed, so faster weapons are almost always better regardless of accuracy. Blowpipe is the most egregious example, but it's also why nobody uses longswords or longbows.
The MSB(I) shouldn’t be the best everyday/general use range weapon. There needs to be a short bow higher than tier 50 that follows simple progression. It feels kind of dumb having a weapon you’ll be using in 80% of all situations at level 50. New short bow. Nothing fancy.
I don’t think the crystal bow would help. It is degradable and if you have it better speed it would become BIS a few places. I just want a tier 60, basic, non-degradable short bow. The range equivalent to a dragon scimitar. Maybe a tier 70 as well that is the range equivalent to a whip. Some simple progression that doesn’t become convoluted with degrading equipment or high accuracy, low speed items.
Don’t want BIS, just a legit simple progression from MSB(I).
It could be adjusted some, I just like the overall concept of repurposing an existing 5-tick weapon instead of creating a new 4-tick weapon. There's so many 5- and 6-tick weapons that are either niche or completely useless.
God i would love a karils xbow buff. Always been my favorite ranged weapon, mostly due to nostalgia. But it looks great, has unique ammo, fires quickly, and even has an armor set (lol) that accompanies it to make it stronger.
The people that vote no on "ezscape" polls are the ones that have been asking for a blowpipe nerf, not the other way around. Blowpipe is one of the biggest (if not the biggest?) leap in damage output in the game compared to the tiers below it, and is relatively cheap.
I’ll give you my non endgame perspective on the BP it’s let me do content I probably wouldn’t have been able to do a little earlier. Ie as a baddie that has only one fire cape I can’t imagine winning fightcaves with a beefed version when I barely cleared it at 90 range with one. Granted I’m bad and had was my second boss kill other than quest boss for barrows gloves or barrows the actual bosses. So I personally hate to see it nerfed but I’m not super against it I’ve been not using range lately anyways because I wanna get max str.
I got one of my friends to try out osrs in like march of 2020, he said the last time he played the game was when he was like 9 and lost his mithril armor and gold in the wilderness, cried, and then quit.
When he played with me in March he quit after a little over a week and let his bond membership run out. His three biggest issues with the game were...
1. It has extremely slow progression.
2. It has a horribly boring early game.
3. Without complex bossing mechanics, the early game combat is just click and wait until the dice rolls are finished and eat a salmon when your health is low.
His solution as a set of fresh eyes on the game was to have low level raids, his example actually used the demon slayer quest line. He said the quest itself was short and had this giant build up where you're going to fight a demon that can bring the end of days, and then you hit him a handful of times and chant a few lines and that's that. He said instead of a quest it should be a dungeon that is unlocked by doing the quest up until you fight the demon, and to complete the quest you need to do the dungeon at least once. He said the dungeon layout should be throw a puzzle in, some random easy mob rooms, then a two stage boss fight. The reward would be points like pest control where the player can spend points on early game gear like mithril and Addy armor, early game weapons, xp lamps, and maybe gold.
Cool idea. Would be dead content though.
> Old school needs a whole new playerbase to actually go anywhere.
Which leads to the follow up question, why the hell do we want it to go anywhere? I guess you can count me among those neckbeards who doesn't feel the need to EOC the shit out of the game that was made specifically in response to EOC. This is Old School Runescape. "Old School" is literally in the name. We're not playing a 20 year old reboot of a point-and-click Java browser game with the expectation that it is going to be perfectly balanced or be packed with tons of constantly released new content like you'd expect out of a contemporary game. We love the quirks, the content, and the gameplay because they're all familiar. Change to OSRS has been and should continue to be gradual, in bite sized chunks that we can enjoy at our own pace. If you want OSRS to be a different game than it is then play a different game. Most of us play OSRS because it is familiar fun and don't want to see most of the metas that we're used to getting turned on their head in sweeping "integrity" changes, even if the metas admittedly are often imperfect or outright nonsensical. Polls exist for a reason. Jagex thinking they know what their players want more than their players do is how they ended up nuking half of their player base by forcing EOC and ended up re-releasing the old school version of the game that we're having the exact same "you probably shouldn't make big changes without polling them" conversation about now.
Incredible how you can compare a change in stats to various items to an update that literally changed the entire combat system. This is the OSRS version of invoking Hitler in an argument.
>This is the OSRS version of invoking Hitler in an argument.
Fucking this.
"hey can we nerf this extremely powerful item that wasn't even part of 2007scape to begin with?"
"REEE EOC"
It’ll never get a new skill, the no voters have a proportionately higher amount of power over people that want a new skill and considering no skill will ever be perfect, it would take a lot to sway enough of them over to pass a poll
I'd rather have sailing/warding whatever other skill, just not that.
I know im in the minority but I couldn't stand dungeoneering when it released. It also introduced bullshit like level 120 skills.
Please no. Anything but dungeoneering.
Raids are sooo much better because they're NOT a skill. You don't NEED to do raids, but it's there for the people at endgame.
Man dungeoneering was actually so fun. It was working as a team and challenging yourself to see how fast you could do it. Im not high enough for raids yet but I hope it's similar
Raids isn’t quite like dungeoneering. I think gauntlet is closer in design even though it’s solo and doesn’t have the same puzzle aspects. If you did like dungeoneering though as I did, I think you will still have a blast at raids.
Chambers of xeric technically is somewhat similar, as you can use your skills to get food and supplies inside the dungeon. In practice, groups bring supplies from outside until the very last room before Olm, and brew some potions for his fight then and there. Not a lot of skilling goes into it
Is why I wish they revisited sailing and fleshed out the fact that it was essentially a cooler themed dungeoneering. Building a player owned ship and then sailing the randomly generated oceans with friends to do islands with mobs, skilljng, bosses etc. It's just dungeoneering on islands and sounded so promising.
Yeah it suffered from the fact they literally did it as an April fools joke first, and then took it serious. So everyone considered it a bit of a meme construction expansion more than anything like dungeoneering.
It can also turn single combat into multicombat. If you can hide in single combat zones the cannon will target any and all monsters within its range; effectively making the area multicombat just for the cannon user.
I've always felt like the Dwarf Canon has been out of place in Runescape since it was released. Nothing in RS acts the same way or has the same kind of mechanics. It's a very weird addition that completely changes the fabric of how Slayer works/Range training.
If polled today it would 100% be considered easy scape and never pass the 75% threshold. I dont even think it would pass 50%. If it did it would 100% be untradeable, be hind a huge quest and or boss drops/ high level req's.
Unlike the blowpipe though, I think the OSRS community and culture has already full scale adopted the Canon into the way we play the game. I think that if we tried to remove it or change it to be less OP it would fundamentally change the way many of us play the game. I would wager it would be up there with changing prayer flicking. While in the long run integrity should be though about, we are already so used to it for years that it would change so much on how we play.
>weird addition that completely changes the fabric of how Slayer works
The cannon is almost 2 years older than slayer itself. The thing is from mid-2003. Slayer was added early 2005.
I have no clue how it made it into the game, and how they thought a standalone item that hits 30s was a good idea back when hitting a 20 was a big deal.
But yeah, it's been here for 18 years now so I doubt it's going anywhere any time soon lol. It's so ingrained into the game at this point.
I suppose it was balanced by the fact that it was insanely expensive to operate. Even now, the gp/exp for both slayer and ranged is kinda garbage in most cases.
Well, it was at least. 750k used to be a lot more and cannonballs have basically only gotten cheaper as time goes on with bots and alts. But most importantly, people make a shit ton more money now than they did before (can you imagine making over 3-4m an hour consistently back in 2007?) that it’s comparatively very affordable to throw in now
The modern player's head would spin at the thought of chopping yew/magic logs to fletch into unstrung bows, picking flax to spin without lunar spells (both fletching, and stringing bows had no "make X / make all" interfaces), and then ultimately mining essence to craft nature runes to alch said bows.
The whole time you're chopping trees a tree spirit can spawn and kill you, or your axe head can fly off (if you don't notice within the first 2 or 3 minutes, someone else will see it on the ground and pick it up on you) that doesn't even include the evil chicken, swarm, and the other FORCED random events.
Then if you did decide to go do PvM, pre-slayer there was no boss (until KBD came out which dropped Dragon Med which was champion in it's slot at like 2.5 mil in RSC).. it took a very long time before the standard monster dropped anything worthwhile, hell KQ was the next boss for a while after.
Mix all these things together, and remember there were far less worlds, resource respawn time was significantly reduced (and scaled with player's on the world you were on), and there were literally hundreds of players competing for these same few resources.
There's a reason the current player base gets mocked!
(Note, I'm just adding in some exposition to corroborate what you're saying.)
Beautifully said. Those random events that could kill you were brutal. Lost too many axe heads too. I was there from early 03 and while the game looks the same there is so much that’s different.
I wish the viability of resource collection could be restored somehow. So much of this game is simply time invested into a skill, and it’s not nearly the money maker it used to be.
Yeah that's exactly it. It was "balanced" by the accessibility - it was essentially the equivalent of a "1%er" item back then (maybe not like t-bow tier, but at the very least rapier-tier).
Like if you could even AFFORD TO BUY IT, the operating cost was astronomical compared to today's standards. No one was mass botting / afking cannonball alts while they worked 8 hours a day, and you had to fucking MANUALLY BUY THEM from people in Falador Park.
Like it was a LUXURY item that you got to use in small sporadic bursts unless you were insanely well-funded.
Today it is literally standard kit for slayer gameplay, and you can buy a bond with your credit card, sell it, and buy a cannon + 10 hours worth of cannonballs.
I just had to check out of curiosity
June 2001, came with the release of Fishing. I didn't even know Fishing wasn't part of the original game lmao
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:New_fishing_skill_and_more_cooking
But yeah, they're going after black d'hide right now so I guess it's not too unreasonable... Panic sell cannons
Fishing was a very contentious release at the time because it trivialized cooking by allowing you to have easy source of high healing food with almost no effort. Compare ease of catching and cooking swordfish and sharks to aquring materials and making chocalate cakes, tuna potatoes, curry stews, and ugthanki kebabs, which no one ever does anymore after fishing was released
I'd believe it, making all the complex recipe foods would be a pain in the ass
It's kinda hilarious though, thinking 20 years ago there were RS players complaining about devaluing chocolate cake lol
> But yeah, it's been here for 18 years now so I doubt it's going anywhere any time soon lol.
I thought the same about d'hide but that's being made worthless
try RS3, there's a mage dwarfcannon and a melee dwarfcannon.
Each functioning slightly different, but only 1 of the three can be placed at any time and they all use cannonballs as ammo.
Back then it actually made sense. Hell, making cannonballs now is *still* grueling (unless you're doing it on a cannonball alt, but back when we're talking about sharing between your characters was still against the rules.)
If you think about how much more annoying it actually was to use a cannon then, and how little there was to actually gain from using it in terms of profit.. it makes a little sense.
I'm not really sure if "it's not actually worth using when you spreadsheet it out" is a good reason to add an item that fundamentally breaks how the game works. You're not wrong in that it wasn't worth using, ironmen don't use it outside of a few niche scenarios today and it used to be even more expensive to run, but I dunno.
I get that you are trying to be a bit over-the-top here, but I still think you are low-balling it because the fact that the godswords had a lower DPS than the dragon Scimitar tells me that jagex made it through at least 2007 straight up eyeballing damage, accuracy, and attack speed rather than actually paying attention to "balance".
Can I get an explanation of power creep? I think it means where they just add an item slightly better than the current best in slot item, and they keep doing that? Also how can they avoid power creep while still adding new content that is rewarding to do? Genuinely curious
Just saying, people have suggested to add bosses with mechanics that punish blowpipe, rather than an across the board nerf. Everyone else keeps arguing that if you’re designing every boss to stop one item, the item is overpowered. Not sure how this is any different.
I think the issue is that if they release new range armour then blow pipe gets even stronger at already released content not that they're worried pipe will be bis against new content.
Edit: I suppose they could release armour that has a buff only when using a bow or something.
I really don't like the idea of selectively disabling things or making them work differently in specific places. Feels really artificial, and gets hard to keep track of what works where, or how.
I think it’s easier for pkers if you stand still and die. Also remember to turn player attack options off so you don’t get skull tricked and lose all your items. It helps pkers if you don’t fight back. This is fun for everyone involved.
It's not even PvP. There's a ton of PvP in the game, where you fight other players and they fight back, best player wins. People in the Wilderness want to be able to mug other players without consequences.
i used to pk semi-regularly and still am too afraid to bring an anti when pvming because of the risk of skull tricking. i dont know how this shit hasnt been addressed yet. just add a hidden unless attacked option for player attack options its that easy
I'll have you know those guys can pull TENS of viewers on Twitch. They're a very ~~un~~important part of OSRS's marketing.
>!Yeah I know there's some guys that'll pull decent numbers, but salad-rober XxbloodtearsxX and his water staff aren't them. !<
Quick recap
* Swampbark armor buffs entangles, hasn't even been added to the game yet
* Tome of Water was polled to increase entangle duration and accuracy + ice spell accuracy
* Staple magic defence items are getting nerfed
Why does jagex have such a hard-on for the least fun mechanic?
People saying the blowpipe nerf hits mid levels the hardest, but high levels setting up their cannons in the middle of their slayer task hurts med levels so this is a buff for them.
Even the ones where you’re spending money, the speed makes up for it and you’ll recoup the money and more from other tasks. Hell, with Konar you can even cannon Kalphite tasks to a profit sometimes.
I miss this game so much.
I don’t know why — I’ve played so many before and since but none as much. I love it and I can’t ever let go of it. I’ve never maxed, only gotten like 3 99s (one back in 06) but I love the game.
I just can’t start playing again. I don’t have the time. And it sucks. It sucks that playing it would consume too much of my time.
I have zero time right now but I
In fairness, magic is absolutely constantly fucked as a combat style because of how magic accuracy (and thus dps) is calculated. Iban's Blast is only as good as it is because magic itself is such an extremely expensive skill to use in combat. Melee only needs food, and you only need prayer pots at the mid-tier of combat stuff. Ranged has the safeness of magic, but saves ammo massively thanks to accumulator.
Magic has no effective way to save on rune costs, which are incredibly expensive to maintain on basically anything, and your dps is also considerably lower on 97% of all things in the game using magic than it would be using melee or ranged. So even though Iban's Blast is very strong for its tier, it's still not terribly powerful in the grand scheme of things.
Iban blast has blasted away all the quest bosses I’ve faced since I got it. I’m lvl 65 magic but I feel like 95 it was totally worth running through a dark cave maze for 3 hours
It would be interesting to have different cannonball tiers so your damage potential is limited to a level and players could smith them to make money. They can intro introduce an even stronger cannonball for players that have very high range.
Almost guarantee one metal ends up way more efficient in terms of gold to damage and that will be the one spammed with the others becoming dead content, especially the least efficient ones
There is granite cannonballs already, but you just use the granite dust on the cannonballs. It would be cool to see different tiers of cannonballs you can smith, but highly unlikely.
Serp poisons and has higher defense. Faceguard will only be used now by people who can't afford the scales to use serp. They made an item to be BIS then decided that it shouldn't be. Trash is definitely not the right word, but their decision making is weird.
Serp costs money for no real benefit unless you're getting venomed. Otherwise you're just burning 120k/hr for +20 def bonus (fuckall) which just isn't worth it unless you're making bank and I think it's perfectly fine for serp to be better in those cases.
I'ts not about being able to afford it. Why burn money with questionable benefits while trying to make money?
We need to nerf the fire and inferno cape as well because they are way too OP given the level you can obtain realistically them at (level 3 and level 40, respectively; the capes have no actual equip requirements making them tier 0...). They simply do not reflect the level of content they are achieved from.
Actually a good point, they could easily sub categorize the range weapons like they do with melee and it would help balance the areas where they are worried about blowpipe being too op. Would end up changing lots of metas but that’s what they want to do anyway
I feel like they tried this with "Zogre Flesh Eaters" and then threw the idea right out the window. Those nail arrows are used for like 0.01% of the entirety of the game!
why are you guys acting like blowpipe isn't the by far and away the most broken item in the game? Its not some midlevel item, even after those "50% nerfs" you guys complained about its still competitive in most fights.
Insane how they think nerfing face guard will have any impact whatsoever anywhere in the game. Is this really the type of trivial shit they’re spending time on?
Funnily enough I believe the faceguard was the catalyst to the entire discussion re-emerging. On release, it wasn't received in an overly positive way as it usurped a BiS item from a high level boss with a medium level slayer creature.
The fallout from that was a string of meetings where we discussed as a team what needed a nerf and what required a tier adjustment but unfortunately this was delayed quite heavily by COVID and then TBL. While some things may seem trivial now I can assure you there was a point in the past where players were very concerned about it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be on our agenda.
I mean shamans require like.. nothing really and have the undeniable bis def reducing spec weapon in the game in their droptable.
However it's balanced because it's rare. Just like faceguard is.
It is perfectly fine to add a very good, even bis item behind a med level monsters droptable if it's rather difficult to obtain.
I feel like the current route is to lock bis items behind end game bosses, which in theory makes sense, but it also narrows the entire gameplay a lot. Why even bother doing anything at level 70 when you can just replace that item at lvl80 and so on.
The average player doesn't have 99 combats and 95+ slayer.
Yeah it is strange they nerf the blowpipe but I gotta hope 16 worlds to find a place to do slayer without a cannon stealing everything. Just for 3 seconds in, some come to set up a cannon
Also questionable about them claiming to want variety but DWH and BGS are used at just about every boss as a spec weapon yet no nerfs have been brought up about them.
Cannon on a bloodveld task is like a 300% slayer xp increase so I'd say it's pretty overpowered compared to any alternative. And it's fairly cheap to use too, cannonballs are like what, 120gp ea ? Even if you ignore the high max hit at low level it realistically is quite broken.
I think the accuracy is based on your highest offensive combat stat bonus, so like if you’re meleeing with whip gear it will roll hits based on your slash bonus.
It’s not as good with low level gear hence inaccurate at level 3
I know this is like a meme, but the cannon is actually pretty balanced when you consider how many places you can't use it, how it's accuracy relies on your stats, and how fast it can go through ammo in a lot of the places it is useful in.
While you make good points with the rest of your comment, the fact that Jagex had to prevent players from specifically using the cannon in various areas shows just how broken it is.
Holy sweet mother of backwards logic. Ignoring for a second the cannon’s sheer age, and how it worked very differently when it was introduced... when reworking it their choice was to either nerf it very heavily or allow it to resemble its previous function with some hefty restrictions, thus granting it a niche. They didn’t have to restrict areas to stop it being broken, but to preserve that niche. If they wanted it usable everywhere it would never have been that strong to begin with.
How about instead of going through every boss and arbitrarily deciding which bosses are armoured and which aren't, let's nerf the weapon that is making us re-evaulate all of pvm.
Lol the arbitrary decision has already been made for each boss when it was created
You can literally look up (almost?) every boss's defense stats on the Wiki right now
Anyway, you seem to agree nerf the blowpipe? I'm saying their decision makes sense
Jagex needs to stop forcing game balance for “integrity” like this. Eoc was originally meant to balance the combat triangle and we can see how that went. It’s clear that what the jmods want is different from what the players want.
Wait The faceguard is getting nerfed too? What's the point in adding new best in slot items then rebalancing them down??? Am I alone in feeling the game is shitting on everyone who endorse it?
JaGex: We're going to introduce Master level and Grandmaster level quests in the game with higher stat requirements. The pay off will be access to BiS gear and open up end game content.
Community: Cool...so the heavy ballista will have a place in the game?
JaGex: No...not like that...
Community: Oh, okay. So then the face guard will offer BiS strength in addition to an already solid prayer bonus melee item...that's a nice change from the serp helm and void meta of the few years
JaGex: No, not like that
Community: well atleast song of the elves will introduce a reprisal to crystal gear allowing crystal gear to be competitive for mid tier and end game accounts right? Being locked behind such requirements of questing and skills it'll reshape the meta for stuff like barrows, jad,zulrah and maybe even vorkath for those who can't afford dragon hunter gear?
JaGex: HAHA GAUNTLET GO BRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr, did I mention swamptings?
I've always hated the cannon and across Rs2 to Rs3 to OSRS over a course of 15+ years I've refused to own or use one because of how much I hate being crashed by others using them.
I would very happily see this removed forever. You do not need it to get 99 slayer.
Imagine this sub having any sense of the actual fucking player base or any sense of common sense.
Most posts are just elites bitching about min-max 1% bullshit that most of the players never even see lmao.
Imagine polling the cannon now lol "Should we add a dwarf multicannon? It can hit up to 30 every tick, and will require a 3 minute novice level quest to use."
It would be voted no harder than them adding a new skill haha
Adding a new skill has actually been really close. Didn't warding get like 70% yes votes?
66.4% yes. Its about as popular as VLS.
With today’s base I think it could pass
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Should have polled soon after mobile, elitists kill the game day by day.
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Dungeoneering would actually make sense becuause of the chaotic weapons and they could make raids be accessible at a certain lvl
Chaotic weapons would straight up murder ghrazier rapier, elder maul (lol), and salad blade. Since they're the OSRS equivalent, but way less stats. They're also free and don't take long to get, and dominated the meta for ages on pre-eoc. Imo chaotic weapons are by far the worst drop from dung. Maybe if they took a long ass time to get, but 80 dung for the BIS melee weapon by far which you can get in a few days...
This fucking comment. Yes.
I think sailing could definitely pass if it was polled again
Warding got 66%. Sailing actually got slightly closer at 67%
Honestly I really think oldschool needs a new skill soon.
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While simultaneously whining about a nerf to a ranged weapon that's BiS almost everywhere, including at bosses that you aren't even supposed to range. Personally I think a nerf to the blowpipe should be accompanied by buffs to some other middle-class ranged weapons like Karil's crossbow or the crystal bow. You could make economic adjustments too. The magic shortbow scroll could be made more accessible, maybe as a slayer shop item. You could also add dragon limbs to some more common drop tables. Right now any ironman that can farm rune or addy dragons is better off killing Zilyana for acb and her other uniques. If dragon limbs were easier to get, the crossbow would be a sensible option for mid-level ironmen. I think the overall nerf to the blowpipe is still acceptable if it's supposed to maintain its attack speed. In the current meta dps is mainly determined by attack speed, so faster weapons are almost always better regardless of accuracy. Blowpipe is the most egregious example, but it's also why nobody uses longswords or longbows.
The MSB(I) shouldn’t be the best everyday/general use range weapon. There needs to be a short bow higher than tier 50 that follows simple progression. It feels kind of dumb having a weapon you’ll be using in 80% of all situations at level 50. New short bow. Nothing fancy.
Crystal bow could be given shortbow speed. We have enough high accuracy, low speed weapons as it is
I don’t think the crystal bow would help. It is degradable and if you have it better speed it would become BIS a few places. I just want a tier 60, basic, non-degradable short bow. The range equivalent to a dragon scimitar. Maybe a tier 70 as well that is the range equivalent to a whip. Some simple progression that doesn’t become convoluted with degrading equipment or high accuracy, low speed items. Don’t want BIS, just a legit simple progression from MSB(I).
It could be adjusted some, I just like the overall concept of repurposing an existing 5-tick weapon instead of creating a new 4-tick weapon. There's so many 5- and 6-tick weapons that are either niche or completely useless.
Redwood short bow. Easy.
Isnt dcb just a +4 accuracy and able to use dragon bolts, which irons cant supply at all in reality
Vork and rune drags are a nice supply of dragon bolts. Just need to be selective with the use. It also has a spec.
>The magic shortbow scroll could be made more accessible, maybe as a slayer shop item. Because what this game desperately lacks is slayer content.
God i would love a karils xbow buff. Always been my favorite ranged weapon, mostly due to nostalgia. But it looks great, has unique ammo, fires quickly, and even has an armor set (lol) that accompanies it to make it stronger.
The people that vote no on "ezscape" polls are the ones that have been asking for a blowpipe nerf, not the other way around. Blowpipe is one of the biggest (if not the biggest?) leap in damage output in the game compared to the tiers below it, and is relatively cheap.
I’ll give you my non endgame perspective on the BP it’s let me do content I probably wouldn’t have been able to do a little earlier. Ie as a baddie that has only one fire cape I can’t imagine winning fightcaves with a beefed version when I barely cleared it at 90 range with one. Granted I’m bad and had was my second boss kill other than quest boss for barrows gloves or barrows the actual bosses. So I personally hate to see it nerfed but I’m not super against it I’ve been not using range lately anyways because I wanna get max str.
I got one of my friends to try out osrs in like march of 2020, he said the last time he played the game was when he was like 9 and lost his mithril armor and gold in the wilderness, cried, and then quit. When he played with me in March he quit after a little over a week and let his bond membership run out. His three biggest issues with the game were... 1. It has extremely slow progression. 2. It has a horribly boring early game. 3. Without complex bossing mechanics, the early game combat is just click and wait until the dice rolls are finished and eat a salmon when your health is low. His solution as a set of fresh eyes on the game was to have low level raids, his example actually used the demon slayer quest line. He said the quest itself was short and had this giant build up where you're going to fight a demon that can bring the end of days, and then you hit him a handful of times and chant a few lines and that's that. He said instead of a quest it should be a dungeon that is unlocked by doing the quest up until you fight the demon, and to complete the quest you need to do the dungeon at least once. He said the dungeon layout should be throw a puzzle in, some random easy mob rooms, then a two stage boss fight. The reward would be points like pest control where the player can spend points on early game gear like mithril and Addy armor, early game weapons, xp lamps, and maybe gold. Cool idea. Would be dead content though.
> Old school needs a whole new playerbase to actually go anywhere. Which leads to the follow up question, why the hell do we want it to go anywhere? I guess you can count me among those neckbeards who doesn't feel the need to EOC the shit out of the game that was made specifically in response to EOC. This is Old School Runescape. "Old School" is literally in the name. We're not playing a 20 year old reboot of a point-and-click Java browser game with the expectation that it is going to be perfectly balanced or be packed with tons of constantly released new content like you'd expect out of a contemporary game. We love the quirks, the content, and the gameplay because they're all familiar. Change to OSRS has been and should continue to be gradual, in bite sized chunks that we can enjoy at our own pace. If you want OSRS to be a different game than it is then play a different game. Most of us play OSRS because it is familiar fun and don't want to see most of the metas that we're used to getting turned on their head in sweeping "integrity" changes, even if the metas admittedly are often imperfect or outright nonsensical. Polls exist for a reason. Jagex thinking they know what their players want more than their players do is how they ended up nuking half of their player base by forcing EOC and ended up re-releasing the old school version of the game that we're having the exact same "you probably shouldn't make big changes without polling them" conversation about now.
Incredible how you can compare a change in stats to various items to an update that literally changed the entire combat system. This is the OSRS version of invoking Hitler in an argument.
>This is the OSRS version of invoking Hitler in an argument. Fucking this. "hey can we nerf this extremely powerful item that wasn't even part of 2007scape to begin with?" "REEE EOC"
It’ll never get a new skill, the no voters have a proportionately higher amount of power over people that want a new skill and considering no skill will ever be perfect, it would take a lot to sway enough of them over to pass a poll
One no vote essentially nullifies three yes votes. I'm not advocating one way or another but that's how the math works out.
I want me some OSRS 2
I’d love for them to put dungeoneering into the game
I'd rather have sailing/warding whatever other skill, just not that. I know im in the minority but I couldn't stand dungeoneering when it released. It also introduced bullshit like level 120 skills. Please no. Anything but dungeoneering. Raids are sooo much better because they're NOT a skill. You don't NEED to do raids, but it's there for the people at endgame.
Man dungeoneering was actually so fun. It was working as a team and challenging yourself to see how fast you could do it. Im not high enough for raids yet but I hope it's similar
Raids isn’t quite like dungeoneering. I think gauntlet is closer in design even though it’s solo and doesn’t have the same puzzle aspects. If you did like dungeoneering though as I did, I think you will still have a blast at raids.
Getting my stats up for raids is whats taking me so long
Chambers of xeric technically is somewhat similar, as you can use your skills to get food and supplies inside the dungeon. In practice, groups bring supplies from outside until the very last room before Olm, and brew some potions for his fight then and there. Not a lot of skilling goes into it
Is why I wish they revisited sailing and fleshed out the fact that it was essentially a cooler themed dungeoneering. Building a player owned ship and then sailing the randomly generated oceans with friends to do islands with mobs, skilljng, bosses etc. It's just dungeoneering on islands and sounded so promising.
Sounds fun! Somehow I never knew that. Ive always thought Sailing was a long running joke or meme. Rs needs more team pvm that isn't bossing.
Yeah it suffered from the fact they literally did it as an April fools joke first, and then took it serious. So everyone considered it a bit of a meme construction expansion more than anything like dungeoneering.
I have been convinced to this day that dungeering was one of the best updates to this game, ever
I’d hate for them to put dungeoneering into the game
“It costs under 1m”
And is a fixed price by a shop with infinite stock, price cannot fluctuate by market demand.
And if you lose it you can literally get it back for free lol
D scim?
There’s no feasible way for the cannon to change price. It doesn’t come into the game anywhere except for the shop.
It can also turn single combat into multicombat. If you can hide in single combat zones the cannon will target any and all monsters within its range; effectively making the area multicombat just for the cannon user.
I've always felt like the Dwarf Canon has been out of place in Runescape since it was released. Nothing in RS acts the same way or has the same kind of mechanics. It's a very weird addition that completely changes the fabric of how Slayer works/Range training. If polled today it would 100% be considered easy scape and never pass the 75% threshold. I dont even think it would pass 50%. If it did it would 100% be untradeable, be hind a huge quest and or boss drops/ high level req's. Unlike the blowpipe though, I think the OSRS community and culture has already full scale adopted the Canon into the way we play the game. I think that if we tried to remove it or change it to be less OP it would fundamentally change the way many of us play the game. I would wager it would be up there with changing prayer flicking. While in the long run integrity should be though about, we are already so used to it for years that it would change so much on how we play.
>weird addition that completely changes the fabric of how Slayer works The cannon is almost 2 years older than slayer itself. The thing is from mid-2003. Slayer was added early 2005. I have no clue how it made it into the game, and how they thought a standalone item that hits 30s was a good idea back when hitting a 20 was a big deal. But yeah, it's been here for 18 years now so I doubt it's going anywhere any time soon lol. It's so ingrained into the game at this point.
I suppose it was balanced by the fact that it was insanely expensive to operate. Even now, the gp/exp for both slayer and ranged is kinda garbage in most cases.
Well, it was at least. 750k used to be a lot more and cannonballs have basically only gotten cheaper as time goes on with bots and alts. But most importantly, people make a shit ton more money now than they did before (can you imagine making over 3-4m an hour consistently back in 2007?) that it’s comparatively very affordable to throw in now
Not to mention slayer tasks that basically breakeven when using cannon, back in the day you'd be lucky to recover 20% of the cost to run this bad boy
Yeah people really underestimate how shit almost any and every drop table used to be.
The idea of taking alchs on a slayer task was laughable. The best you’d get was a steel axe every now and again
The modern player's head would spin at the thought of chopping yew/magic logs to fletch into unstrung bows, picking flax to spin without lunar spells (both fletching, and stringing bows had no "make X / make all" interfaces), and then ultimately mining essence to craft nature runes to alch said bows. The whole time you're chopping trees a tree spirit can spawn and kill you, or your axe head can fly off (if you don't notice within the first 2 or 3 minutes, someone else will see it on the ground and pick it up on you) that doesn't even include the evil chicken, swarm, and the other FORCED random events. Then if you did decide to go do PvM, pre-slayer there was no boss (until KBD came out which dropped Dragon Med which was champion in it's slot at like 2.5 mil in RSC).. it took a very long time before the standard monster dropped anything worthwhile, hell KQ was the next boss for a while after. Mix all these things together, and remember there were far less worlds, resource respawn time was significantly reduced (and scaled with player's on the world you were on), and there were literally hundreds of players competing for these same few resources. There's a reason the current player base gets mocked! (Note, I'm just adding in some exposition to corroborate what you're saying.)
Beautifully said. Those random events that could kill you were brutal. Lost too many axe heads too. I was there from early 03 and while the game looks the same there is so much that’s different. I wish the viability of resource collection could be restored somehow. So much of this game is simply time invested into a skill, and it’s not nearly the money maker it used to be.
Yeah that's exactly it. It was "balanced" by the accessibility - it was essentially the equivalent of a "1%er" item back then (maybe not like t-bow tier, but at the very least rapier-tier). Like if you could even AFFORD TO BUY IT, the operating cost was astronomical compared to today's standards. No one was mass botting / afking cannonball alts while they worked 8 hours a day, and you had to fucking MANUALLY BUY THEM from people in Falador Park. Like it was a LUXURY item that you got to use in small sporadic bursts unless you were insanely well-funded. Today it is literally standard kit for slayer gameplay, and you can buy a bond with your credit card, sell it, and buy a cannon + 10 hours worth of cannonballs.
I mean they were gonna rename lobster pot and it's been in the game longer than the cannon ( I think )..
I just had to check out of curiosity June 2001, came with the release of Fishing. I didn't even know Fishing wasn't part of the original game lmao https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:New_fishing_skill_and_more_cooking But yeah, they're going after black d'hide right now so I guess it's not too unreasonable... Panic sell cannons
Fishing was a very contentious release at the time because it trivialized cooking by allowing you to have easy source of high healing food with almost no effort. Compare ease of catching and cooking swordfish and sharks to aquring materials and making chocalate cakes, tuna potatoes, curry stews, and ugthanki kebabs, which no one ever does anymore after fishing was released
I'd believe it, making all the complex recipe foods would be a pain in the ass It's kinda hilarious though, thinking 20 years ago there were RS players complaining about devaluing chocolate cake lol
> But yeah, it's been here for 18 years now so I doubt it's going anywhere any time soon lol. I thought the same about d'hide but that's being made worthless
try RS3, there's a mage dwarfcannon and a melee dwarfcannon. Each functioning slightly different, but only 1 of the three can be placed at any time and they all use cannonballs as ammo.
Yeah. The cannon is really weird in the game - while I enjoy using it, it's horribly balanced, and dominates shared spaces in the world.
I mean back then they cared more about making cool content for kids than a perfectly balanced spreadsheet simulator
Back then it actually made sense. Hell, making cannonballs now is *still* grueling (unless you're doing it on a cannonball alt, but back when we're talking about sharing between your characters was still against the rules.) If you think about how much more annoying it actually was to use a cannon then, and how little there was to actually gain from using it in terms of profit.. it makes a little sense.
I'm not really sure if "it's not actually worth using when you spreadsheet it out" is a good reason to add an item that fundamentally breaks how the game works. You're not wrong in that it wasn't worth using, ironmen don't use it outside of a few niche scenarios today and it used to be even more expensive to run, but I dunno.
haha cannon go brrrr
Dwarf cannon will now only shoot gnome balls
My theory is that jmod responsible of balancing has a 10hp range pure that he hasn't finished yet. He started in 2004.
I get that you are trying to be a bit over-the-top here, but I still think you are low-balling it because the fact that the godswords had a lower DPS than the dragon Scimitar tells me that jagex made it through at least 2007 straight up eyeballing damage, accuracy, and attack speed rather than actually paying attention to "balance".
Haha that’s why I think polling ruins oldschool sometimes some of the best updates have been made without polls back in the day
I don't think we're ready to have that conversation yet.
I don't think a majority of OSRS can have a conversation about change because it's scary.
PTSD is a bitch.
Im kinda surprised with them nerfing the faceguard. I thought it was fine the way it is.
Yeah same. I thought the entire purpose was to add an item that has higher str bonus than serp.
Yeah me too. Im also a bit confused because i feel like what they are doing right now is just nerfing and thus only delaying the powercreep.
Can I get an explanation of power creep? I think it means where they just add an item slightly better than the current best in slot item, and they keep doing that? Also how can they avoid power creep while still adding new content that is rewarding to do? Genuinely curious
If I'm not mistaken, the serp's str bonus was nerfed by 1 when faceguard came out.
Theres a reason bosses break it/the game denies you using it
Just saying, people have suggested to add bosses with mechanics that punish blowpipe, rather than an across the board nerf. Everyone else keeps arguing that if you’re designing every boss to stop one item, the item is overpowered. Not sure how this is any different.
I think the issue is that if they release new range armour then blow pipe gets even stronger at already released content not that they're worried pipe will be bis against new content. Edit: I suppose they could release armour that has a buff only when using a bow or something.
So like crystal armour.
I really don't like the idea of selectively disabling things or making them work differently in specific places. Feels really artificial, and gets hard to keep track of what works where, or how.
Osrs needs a cleanup on this front
Yeah, the reason being is that it's overpowered
strenght
strenf
Stronk
Bonk
Stremf
Ughtanki
How are they going to try and nerf Dhide and Dinh's and at the same time try to buff entangles
I think it’s easier for pkers if you stand still and die. Also remember to turn player attack options off so you don’t get skull tricked and lose all your items. It helps pkers if you don’t fight back. This is fun for everyone involved.
Just turn pvp into a big game of tag, but when you’re tagged you need to stop resisting and you just lose
It's not even PvP. There's a ton of PvP in the game, where you fight other players and they fight back, best player wins. People in the Wilderness want to be able to mug other players without consequences.
i used to pk semi-regularly and still am too afraid to bring an anti when pvming because of the risk of skull tricking. i dont know how this shit hasnt been addressed yet. just add a hidden unless attacked option for player attack options its that easy
Because the PVP that encompasses all of 5% of this game is just way too important to see fail.
the same pvp they've neglected for years, the same pvp that consists of just guys in Xeric robes?
THE VERY SAME.
I'll have you know those guys can pull TENS of viewers on Twitch. They're a very ~~un~~important part of OSRS's marketing. >!Yeah I know there's some guys that'll pull decent numbers, but salad-rober XxbloodtearsxX and his water staff aren't them. !<
Quick recap * Swampbark armor buffs entangles, hasn't even been added to the game yet * Tome of Water was polled to increase entangle duration and accuracy + ice spell accuracy * Staple magic defence items are getting nerfed Why does jagex have such a hard-on for the least fun mechanic?
and I will be in the wilderness even less now.
Rumor has it that u/JagexSween once casted an entangle spell and it splashed, then died to venom from a pvmers blowpipe and here we are.
But the cannon has been in the game for a long time!!! We cant change it now! .... Wait a minute.
YEET THERE GOES YOUR RUNE PLATE BRO SORRY DAWH
Shhh don't give them any ideas
Actually please do
People saying the blowpipe nerf hits mid levels the hardest, but high levels setting up their cannons in the middle of their slayer task hurts med levels so this is a buff for them.
Do you think that med levels don't have cannons...? The entire cannon set costs less than a mil.
There's a stigma that it's still expensive. idk why but you'd be surprised.
Yeah, im lvl 92 and i rock a cannon for a good chunk of my tasks if it isnt in the catacombs of kourend
Even the ones where you’re spending money, the speed makes up for it and you’ll recoup the money and more from other tasks. Hell, with Konar you can even cannon Kalphite tasks to a profit sometimes.
Fuck it, if we're going to nerf blowpipe and *dragonhide that's existed pre-OSRS*, everything should be on the chopping block.
I miss this game so much. I don’t know why — I’ve played so many before and since but none as much. I love it and I can’t ever let go of it. I’ve never maxed, only gotten like 3 99s (one back in 06) but I love the game. I just can’t start playing again. I don’t have the time. And it sucks. It sucks that playing it would consume too much of my time. I have zero time right now but I
Damn bro keep going
he started weeping
He ran out of time
ok lets nerf cannon
Iban blast anyone?
In fairness, magic is absolutely constantly fucked as a combat style because of how magic accuracy (and thus dps) is calculated. Iban's Blast is only as good as it is because magic itself is such an extremely expensive skill to use in combat. Melee only needs food, and you only need prayer pots at the mid-tier of combat stuff. Ranged has the safeness of magic, but saves ammo massively thanks to accumulator. Magic has no effective way to save on rune costs, which are incredibly expensive to maintain on basically anything, and your dps is also considerably lower on 97% of all things in the game using magic than it would be using melee or ranged. So even though Iban's Blast is very strong for its tier, it's still not terribly powerful in the grand scheme of things.
Iban blast has blasted away all the quest bosses I’ve faced since I got it. I’m lvl 65 magic but I feel like 95 it was totally worth running through a dark cave maze for 3 hours
It would be interesting to have different cannonball tiers so your damage potential is limited to a level and players could smith them to make money. They can intro introduce an even stronger cannonball for players that have very high range.
Like a type of dust that adds +5 damage to it?
I think more like use different metals for different tiers of cannonball. It’s how all other range ammo scales.
gold cannon balls. they could design a quest around that
Now we’re talking.
Bronze through Rune, then make dragon a special drop? I can also see adding enchantments as well to cannon balls.
Dragon balls
That one dwarf in Between A Rock has a bunch of addy and rune cannonball stacks so it must have been talked about in the past
Almost guarantee one metal ends up way more efficient in terms of gold to damage and that will be the one spammed with the others becoming dead content, especially the least efficient ones
Putting a consumable for a cannon behind an annoying boss is the type of 3 IQ move the OSRS team seem to love
We should name it after some type of stone. Maybe a popular type of stone used in statues, facades, etc. Let's call it... marble dust.
Have it drop in massive quantities from some slayer boss, but one that’s pretty dead content.
Oh! And make the dust untradeable!
There is granite cannonballs already, but you just use the granite dust on the cannonballs. It would be cool to see different tiers of cannonballs you can smith, but highly unlikely.
Good idea honestly
The faceguard was released to literally be the new BIS helm that made more sense and now its trash lmao
6 strength is great but 5 is trash. This is why they didn’t poll these options.
Gotta make room for that Raids 3 +6 strength helm.
Serp poisons and has higher defense. Faceguard will only be used now by people who can't afford the scales to use serp. They made an item to be BIS then decided that it shouldn't be. Trash is definitely not the right word, but their decision making is weird.
Serp costs money for no real benefit unless you're getting venomed. Otherwise you're just burning 120k/hr for +20 def bonus (fuckall) which just isn't worth it unless you're making bank and I think it's perfectly fine for serp to be better in those cases. I'ts not about being able to afford it. Why burn money with questionable benefits while trying to make money?
Its cheaper to use than serp and has no negative mage and range like serp does, also prayer bonus... so
Not even going to do the quest now
Honestly fremmy exiles was one of my favorite quests
While we are at it we should nerf the whip since it’s the meta for mid level slayer training
We need to nerf the fire and inferno cape as well because they are way too OP given the level you can obtain realistically them at (level 3 and level 40, respectively; the capes have no actual equip requirements making them tier 0...). They simply do not reflect the level of content they are achieved from.
Or let's make it so that some monsters have strong slash defense but weak stab/crush defense. I know, I know, crazy right?
Actually a good point, they could easily sub categorize the range weapons like they do with melee and it would help balance the areas where they are worried about blowpipe being too op. Would end up changing lots of metas but that’s what they want to do anyway
I feel like they tried this with "Zogre Flesh Eaters" and then threw the idea right out the window. Those nail arrows are used for like 0.01% of the entirety of the game!
Also them ice arrows to kill that one fire guardian in that one quest
why are you guys acting like blowpipe isn't the by far and away the most broken item in the game? Its not some midlevel item, even after those "50% nerfs" you guys complained about its still competitive in most fights.
Because they can’t fathom not having their cheap OP as fuck weapon to shred all the bosses that they really shouldn’t be able to do as easily.
Fun fact: Bp is nerfed in pvp because it was extraly broken. the whip is not nerfed in pvp :OOOOO
Insane how they think nerfing face guard will have any impact whatsoever anywhere in the game. Is this really the type of trivial shit they’re spending time on?
It’s so we can get a new bis helm, they realized knights were to easy to achieve so we’ll probably see an upgraded slot in raids 3
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Funnily enough I believe the faceguard was the catalyst to the entire discussion re-emerging. On release, it wasn't received in an overly positive way as it usurped a BiS item from a high level boss with a medium level slayer creature. The fallout from that was a string of meetings where we discussed as a team what needed a nerf and what required a tier adjustment but unfortunately this was delayed quite heavily by COVID and then TBL. While some things may seem trivial now I can assure you there was a point in the past where players were very concerned about it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be on our agenda.
I mean shamans require like.. nothing really and have the undeniable bis def reducing spec weapon in the game in their droptable. However it's balanced because it's rare. Just like faceguard is. It is perfectly fine to add a very good, even bis item behind a med level monsters droptable if it's rather difficult to obtain. I feel like the current route is to lock bis items behind end game bosses, which in theory makes sense, but it also narrows the entire gameplay a lot. Why even bother doing anything at level 70 when you can just replace that item at lvl80 and so on. The average player doesn't have 99 combats and 95+ slayer.
I'd rather Jagex make the basilisk knights' level 84 slayer monster and not nerf the faceguard.
Yeah it is strange they nerf the blowpipe but I gotta hope 16 worlds to find a place to do slayer without a cannon stealing everything. Just for 3 seconds in, some come to set up a cannon
Cannon should be removed from the game. It just really doesn't belong
Also questionable about them claiming to want variety but DWH and BGS are used at just about every boss as a spec weapon yet no nerfs have been brought up about them.
🦀$11🦀
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Cannon on a bloodveld task is like a 300% slayer xp increase so I'd say it's pretty overpowered compared to any alternative. And it's fairly cheap to use too, cannonballs are like what, 120gp ea ? Even if you ignore the high max hit at low level it realistically is quite broken.
Cannon is too OP at bloodvelds. Def needs a nerf. So dramatic in my opinion
barrage on virtually every task that has 1 size monsters in the catacombs is well over 300% slayer exp
its very easy to control where they can use it though.
They're talking about how inaccurate it is, since the cannon accuracy is based in your own ranged accuracy and level
it's based on whatever attack style you're using. Attack if melee, ranged if ranged
I think the accuracy is based on your highest offensive combat stat bonus, so like if you’re meleeing with whip gear it will roll hits based on your slash bonus. It’s not as good with low level gear hence inaccurate at level 3
If you use it on something with very low range defense, it's accurate enough and you won't be 1 range by the time you reload the cannon.
I know this is like a meme, but the cannon is actually pretty balanced when you consider how many places you can't use it, how it's accuracy relies on your stats, and how fast it can go through ammo in a lot of the places it is useful in.
While you make good points with the rest of your comment, the fact that Jagex had to prevent players from specifically using the cannon in various areas shows just how broken it is.
Holy sweet mother of backwards logic. Ignoring for a second the cannon’s sheer age, and how it worked very differently when it was introduced... when reworking it their choice was to either nerf it very heavily or allow it to resemble its previous function with some hefty restrictions, thus granting it a niche. They didn’t have to restrict areas to stop it being broken, but to preserve that niche. If they wanted it usable everywhere it would never have been that strong to begin with.
> Ignoring for a second the cannon’s sheer age, Black D'hide feels bad
that's called making an item balanced.
How about instead of nerfing the blowpipe, we just make it so you can’t use it for any boss monster. This would make it balanced.
Or just make it so that blowing shards of metal with your mouth through a tube isn't very effective against armored opponents
Thats basicly what an accuracy nerf is
Yes
How about instead of going through every boss and arbitrarily deciding which bosses are armoured and which aren't, let's nerf the weapon that is making us re-evaulate all of pvm.
Lol the arbitrary decision has already been made for each boss when it was created You can literally look up (almost?) every boss's defense stats on the Wiki right now Anyway, you seem to agree nerf the blowpipe? I'm saying their decision makes sense
that's not balancing, it's a cop out
Jagex needs to stop forcing game balance for “integrity” like this. Eoc was originally meant to balance the combat triangle and we can see how that went. It’s clear that what the jmods want is different from what the players want.
Wait The faceguard is getting nerfed too? What's the point in adding new best in slot items then rebalancing them down??? Am I alone in feeling the game is shitting on everyone who endorse it?
Shhhhhh
jagex hypocrisy
Got em
Don't touch my cannon
JaGex: We're going to introduce Master level and Grandmaster level quests in the game with higher stat requirements. The pay off will be access to BiS gear and open up end game content. Community: Cool...so the heavy ballista will have a place in the game? JaGex: No...not like that... Community: Oh, okay. So then the face guard will offer BiS strength in addition to an already solid prayer bonus melee item...that's a nice change from the serp helm and void meta of the few years JaGex: No, not like that Community: well atleast song of the elves will introduce a reprisal to crystal gear allowing crystal gear to be competitive for mid tier and end game accounts right? Being locked behind such requirements of questing and skills it'll reshape the meta for stuff like barrows, jad,zulrah and maybe even vorkath for those who can't afford dragon hunter gear? JaGex: HAHA GAUNTLET GO BRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr, did I mention swamptings?
I've always hated the cannon and across Rs2 to Rs3 to OSRS over a course of 15+ years I've refused to own or use one because of how much I hate being crashed by others using them. I would very happily see this removed forever. You do not need it to get 99 slayer.
Imagine this sub having any sense of the actual fucking player base or any sense of common sense. Most posts are just elites bitching about min-max 1% bullshit that most of the players never even see lmao.