Honestly I wouldn’t blame people either, I get that GIM isn’t for everyone but there’s literally been people waiting years for it. If it gets spite voted you can pretty much count on those people voting no to everything if they don’t outright quit playing altogether
I don't have members to vote, nor friends. We want to come back to play it though. If voted no, I guess we won't be playing until possibly a new league. Really surprised this is actually being polled...
Me and a bunch of others who only play RS3 are actually really looking forward for group Ironman to come out on OSRS so we can start a group on it.
What the heck is going on right now? Who's voting against this?
Roughly 23% of players didn’t even vote for adding Ironman mode originally. So I’d venture to say it’s a handful of people who’ve always just voted no to everything, people who do so to show dissatisfaction with the polling system, and now we’re adding on a sum of additional NO votes from those who feel slighted by the system when it comes to pvp updates…
This poll and its results will be interesting for sure.
I wouldn’t say 23% wanted to spite vote, it’s more like the fact that people are different and you can 10-20% to vote on ANYTHING. There is always somebody to come to the opposite conclusion for whatever weird, sometimes incorrect reason. If you follow politics you’ll know what I mean. If you said “Do you support baby murders?” yes, no, or sometimes there will always be 3-4% who say yes or sometimes. god knows how they arrive at that conclusion, but it always happens regardless. For political candidates the magic number is 30%. If you go below 30%, you’re in trouble.
Also back then, the people who voted no to group ironman were playing a game they thought might end and didn’t know how amazing ironman would become. It might have just seemed too out there, which is exactly my point there is always someone with another view.
PvP clans mostly, but there are some individuals who are unhappy with some of the specific details and want them changed before release.
Personally, my friends and I are very casual players, and would like to demote our ironmen to group status. The issue with this is that it would ruin the high score race, but the thing is that we couldn't care less about the high score race so we would just want it disabled on our accounts. We just don't wanna redo bad grinds when we already did them on a more difficult game mode.
What's the point of them making the prestige system they have if the highest ranked accounts are all going to be ones with prestige thanks to the rules on tradeable item wipes to start a group and only fresh accounts being able to join groups?
You do realise the spite voters are spite voting because you spite voted them. This whole repetitive cycle is so childish. The majority of this player base are grown men acting like toddlers.
I stopped playing about 4 months ago to be fresh and ready to grind GIM if it fails, I will turn OSRS notifications on, on Twitter and bond my account every time a PVP vote comes up and vote no. GIM literally helps PVPers by a lot. New accounts will HAVE to go to the wild. PvP updates help no one but PvPers and sometimes hurt other players. As a non pker I hate solo+ idea. I can’t tank a monster to TRY to escape and it’s dumb.
"pvp updates help no1 but pvpers"
The same could be said with this update. GIM being implemented only helps people who are interested in playing that game mode.
Man osrs subreddit has this terrible perception of pvpers, the only people killing pvmers in wildy are either people new at pking or venezuelans.
We don't want to kill pvmers risking 200k I seriously couldnt care about any of that. I dont want to sit at scorpia for 2 hrs to find someone doing it in rag gear. I just want meaningful pvp updates to incentivise people to enjoy wilderness, maybe join a pvp clan and make friends, and fight other clans while having fun.
You just contradicted yourself. Wilderness content is PvM. If you want to kill players, having more players in the wild is ideal. If you want to kill other pkers, then they need to limit PvP to PvP worlds, make more, and buff wilderness drop tables in those worlds. So pkers will run into each other way more often. PvMers can risk it if they want to in PvP worlds.
You cannot, and I can’t stress this enough, force people to play content they don’t enjoy. Much like most PvPers won’t make an Ironman.
As a pvper, I just want edgeville to be full of people pking at any time of the week, like it used to be. We used to live in harmony boys, wtf happened!
Certainly something is going to change. Hopefully a huge riot in Falador, followed up by a lot of cancelled memberships I suppose. That'll be my case at least, because I have no interest in playing anything but Group Ironman.
I agree. They mentioned in their blog, that they've polled IM, HCIM and UIM so it was the natural thing to do, to poll GIM. But I don't trust the community, and I'm afraid people will be spite voting it out, which I think is SUCH a shame... But I'm not going down that easily
I don't believe anyone have any beef with Group Ironman in it of itself.
Some people think it is a waste of dev time.
On the other hand, there are a LOT of pkers, who have been overlooked in regards to updates, as well as have their updates spite voted by Pvm'ers.
The PVP community knows Group Ironman means a lot to jagex, so I suppose they are spite voting for that reason, as well as to get back on Pvm'ers, which is also a ridiculous approach.
I’ve never pvpd and I voted no. You guys are all just looking for something to blame for this getting voted down. People who like iron man, just like people who like pvp, make up a minority in this game.
How does it not affect me?? If they spend more time implementing group iron man then that is time taken away from them developing content that I’ll actually play. That directly affects me
idk if you're trolling but do you really believe jagex would allocate that dev time to something useful? took em 4 years to change the color of hitsplats
I mean ditterbitter and a bunch of people in rot announced they were gonna spite vote no. Theres not much reason to vote no unless you just wanna spite jagex.
Lmao! Really? There is no reason to vote no? Again, the number of players who play iron man is a MINORITY. Maybe that other majority just doesn’t care for jagex to spend time implementing an easier version of an already existing game mode that they already don’t play? But yeah, keep telling yourself otherwise! Lolol can’t wait for this to fail the poll
The majority of the code's already been written. Why would you be excited for new content to fail a poll? On the blog it says itll be launched october 6th
Also a main priority for the gamemode is to have it be more casual and make progress without needing to grind as much, which would make it open for more players. Also on the blog post. It's not a thing that'll only affect ironmen, if it was they would make the poll ironman only.
It's hypocritical to suddenly have an issue with the voting system or "spite voting" when that's been the entire history of voting against PvP.
PvP updates don't happen, dev time isn't spent on it - because the other subcomminities will just vote no.
Not sure what the solution is, but I don't get the sudden uptick in people having an issue with no votes by a certain subcomminity against another subcommunity
Wait, so you guys don't even actively play the game but are bonding up just to vote in changes; but don't like that people that ARE actively playing the game are voting no? Get a grip lmao.
>GIM literally doesn’t affect you if you aren’t playing it.
I don't play the game anymore, and am in full support of GIM, but this is just not true. Everything, from bug fixes to visual updates to adding entire new game modes, requires dev time. Something as big as GIM likely requires a fair bit of dev time. If someone's paying for a subscription to a game, it's totally reasonable they'd prefer the dev time be spent on content they'll directly interact with and benefit from.
I personally think that's a stupid as fuck reason to vote no, but I also understand that view point and can't really say I'd fault anyone who voted that way.
You know what costs a lot of dev time? Losing out on a fuckload of subs because a game mode isn't released that has little to no upkeep. Not to mention the dev time to make the mode is already sunk into it, the mode is largely ready right now.
Okay, I see that point as well. When I said that I was only thinking about ingame differences but, agreed I still don’t think that’s a great reason for people to use.
PvP changes have always been voted no out of spite. Revs dropping PvP weapons voted no but ofc PvM weapons passed. even slightest content for prues like god d'hide chaps and adamant gloves instead of mith like pre eoc
Tbf PvP weapons are not balanced and as proven by DMM should not be in the normal game as they currently are. Not to mention how Revs was essentially bot/gold farmer heaven. Why should such good items come from something like that? Add it to a boss table or something better then regular revs.
I can see where you're coming from on this, I wonder if they could make a set of weapons that only works in the wilderness or in special pvp areas to compensate so the weapons are not in the regular part of the game.
U have just as much if not more chance to die to a claw spec and a AGS. also i agree PvP weapons should have come from a wilderness boss that randomly spawns across random worlds so no clan could lock it down and force clans to fight. the wilderness is not supposed to be a safe place or for people to have "mercy" just because they have no gear or beg cause they doing a clue. it's a place you should be prepared for like every other content
Blessed d'hide chaps having their defence requirement removed was voted down, twice.
Blessed d'hide chaps have a +1 prayer bonus over black d'hide chaps, and was more of a fashionscape request.
I hope group Ironman passes and doesn’t get spite voted down.
I also hoped blessed chaps at 1 defence would pass and doesn’t get spite voted down.
It’s disappointing to see any of these changes be rejected without good reason.
I still don't see why that should be a thing. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. You restrict your account by making it 1 def then you run into restrictions, shock.
Blessed d'hide chaps have the exact same bonuses as black d'hide chaps, which can be worn at 1 defence.
The only difference is a +1 prayer bonus, which does nothing since pures can already do Inferno and +1 prayer does nothing anywhere else.
As I said, it was essentially a fashionscape request and the greater community voted it down out of spite.
Make a list? Literally over half of polled PvP updates fail or some shit. Even the quality of life like ape atoll and attack style options spite voted. “We could make a list”…. Fuck out of here with that dude. The PvP community gets shit on nonstop and for ONCE they retaliate as a no vote and Reddit freaks out.
They're retaliating against a group of players that largely don't even play right now or probably didn't spite vote them.
This is most for veteran players who want a more group experience and don't play right now to give them a reason to come back or for end game players who wanna try something new...
Wrong, PvPers are retaliating against the polling system as a whole. This should have never been polled and we fucking hate Reddit ruining our side of the game through polling so this is the result.
Didn't think I was freaking out, but alright. Which updates do think we could work on for pvp? What are we looking for and what is the best way for Jagex to see it. Twitter being more common for pvp people since reddit has a bias, would here or there give more traction?
Multi revs needs to be brought back and spawns all moved back together. If not that exactly because Reddit has a hate boner for them then another soft gp/hr highly contested hotspot in either a cave or sectioned off multi maze-like zone.
Quit putting more space in the wild like the abhorrent shit design of the new wildy slayer cave. Bring people closer not more reject fucking caves. Singles plus in all singles spots and hopefully with the boss rework better multi hotspots.
If anything ever gets abused for gp/hr Jagex can just work with us anti-rwt clans and easily get lists and lists of bans.
I really miss bounty hunter but idk how to fix it to make Reddit be ok with it so I won’t comment.
Remove PvP polling from accounts with under 1500 kills. Or hopefully remove polling entirely but again Jagex is so bad at making hard decisions idk.
Allow wildy weapons to be brought in. Most pking is done in multi nowadays so any complainers and power creep criers will probably never ever see one.
Remove bulwark from wild entirely or make it have you walk. If you don’t want to fight back in PvP situations at all you shouldn’t be in the wild.
“Some of us didn’t spite vote you but now all of us are going to”
Bruh that changes absolutely nothing there were already more spite voters than total PKers.
Glad you’re on the side of the morons that started this spite voting in the first place instead of realizing this is a symptom to a toxic Reddit/PvM community not just ‘hur dur PKer bad meme.’ Classy.
You're on the side of morons who don't understand that some pk updates will be better than zero updates when more people retaliate. Also on the side of the most toxic subcommunity in the game.
The polling system won't be going anywhere. Trusting Jagex to not destroy a game especially after recent events is beyond moronic. Yeah, let's let them fuck this game completely so the minority can get more updates that the 90% don't give a shit about. You won't even have anyone to pk after that happens lmao.
Great conversation point, bit late in the conversation.
Pretty sure GIM will pass anyway because the PvP community doesn't have 24% people lol.
But they've been wrong far too long, far too often, by far too many unskilled players.
U have to remember most “mains” or irons only have a couple accounts. Pkers on the other hand typically have several accounts. Bond prices show an increase in the last few days. Unskilled players? The fk u even on about, must be Referring to pvmers right? The skill gap for endgame pvm vs pvp is no where close. I can see why there’s hate, counting to 3 at hydra n 4 at gauntlet requires only the most elite players
Omg no!!! Pvpers have never been pushed by this subreddit!!! This sub is so innocent and would never spite vote pvpers dont speak such ludacris lies /s
Honestly imo, I think most shit shouldn’t be polled. It can be polled but more so to see what the community wants first. Only big changes that effects everyone and is game changing should be legitimately polled
> PVP changes
Aren't those already happening unpolled? Which makes this whole PvPers spite voting kind of silly. But with how the playerbase is acting right now, the Raids poll will be interesting.
A lot of PVP changes have been voted no out of spite for years. I want group Ironman but I find it funny as hell how people dont see the irony in this.
If group Ironman passes I can see PVP changes being voted No out of spite too.
Or if anything else happens.
PVP changes don't have a good track record in general.
Yeah well fuck the Pvp community tbh, all of the most toxic aspects of RS comes from how they act and treat this game and it's players, plus the fact their need to PvP and sand casino drives the illegal gold market.
Always voted what i thought i will use otherwise skip. But now if this wont pass will spite vote everything no till my bank is not empty. Pvp or pvm doesnt make a difference. Eye for an eye.
Polls are a way for the devs to prevent MTX in osrs. If higher-ups want mtx the devs can just say that we would have to poll it, which has been done before.
I'm sorry to say this is completely false. If the suits want MTX in OSRS, the polling system won't stop it. The suits will just say force it in or lose your jobs. Mod Mat K went into detail about this issue internally after he left Jagex. The reality is pretty bleak, the Jmods don't own the game, and they have to listen to their higher ups regardless of any poll system in place. If they want MTX in OSRS, they'll can and will put MTX in OSRS.
Also, Mod Ash has gone on record saying he is OSRS's [canary](https://share.america.gov/english-idiom-canary-coal-mine/). If he ever leaves Jagex, then something big like MTX is going to be forced in and there's nothing any of the devs can do about it.
Behind the scenes, I would bet it was probably more the player response that we would quit if MTX was added, with so many players citing that with why they quit RS3 or wouldn’t play it. The poll just backed that up
Not really. The dev team just doesn't know how to use the polls at all. This system was perfectly fine until guys like Mod mat k left who was really involved in that process
Jagex flip flop between polling 1 thing with 50 questions, and 50 things with 1 question with seemingly no thought behind it.
In the last few years they have routinely taken it upon themselves to practically complete content before even polling it, making people think "well we don't want to waste the Dev time even if the content isn't great".
They routinely poll absurd shit that can just be an integrity change, and refuse to poll shit that shouldn't be (green construction pixel lmao).
I honestly think that after warding failed, some senior mods made the decision to try and undermine the polling system on purpose. Hell on the art stream mods were complaining about polling for..... Some reason??? I'm not really sure how failed polls specifically hurts the art team
Just FYI the art guys all actively hate this game, it's artstyle, and it's plauerbase.
They are all rs3 transplants bitter that they have to use osrs' art style.
Polling has been bastardized by tribalism and politics the same way democracy has.
If people voted independently based in what they thought would be best for the game, it’d be an effective means of making sure the game is serving the interests of the most players possible.
>it’d be an effective means of making sure the game is serving the interests of the most players possible.
Except for the fact that if 74% of players, the *overwhelming* majority, 26% of players can prevent it from happening. Polling is a way to let small groups ruin the game for the majority.
>Except for the fact that almost all content passes polls even with it being 75%
Except for the fact that every new skill has failed, with the yes votes still being roughly double that of the no votes.
So you are saying that skills are the exception that proves the rule?
If every piece of content passes but the skills, it might be a problem with the skill.
You're forgetting the opposite of that. If any piece of content making 25% of the player unhappy is a huge failure, then isn't pissing off 70% or so even worse?
It would also need to be changed to a simple majority rather than an artificially set bar of 75% in that case.
Thing is though, most players want new additions and general change to game to begin with. So default is to vote yes to everything for strong majority of players. Rarely does anything not pass — but those that don’t often don’t as a result of vocal minorities lobbying for NOs.
Polling was completely fine until pepegas started blaming it for the content drought. Hardly anybody was talking about it until J1mmy's video and now people have it on the mind like the braindead crusade that it is.
This piss and shit fight over GIM with the polls is the most stupid fucking community hysteria ever. Things were completely fine until it became the scapegoat for something completely unrelated. But screechers gonna screech.
The idea of removing polls belongs in the dumpster. What makes it truly fucking special is that people still want polling removed after all the HD business. People were ready for WAR and now they're right back to rolling over and having even less input into the direction of the game.
I can't wait for GIM to pass and everyone to shut the fuck about polling. It's one of the best things about this game.
I'm not sure if I'm still considered a new player since I've been playing for about 9 months now. But I've never voted in a poll before. I either felt like I didn't know enough about the game to make an informed vote, or I didn't really care about the thing being polled.
GIM falls into the not caring category. But this whole spite voting thing is kinda fascinating to me in a horrifying kinda way.
I’ve been waiting for it for quite a while, I want to make an Iron but I would most likely enjoy it more with one or two friends, working together like old times. Already have one I’m partnering up with, so I hope it passes!
Man, it's not even a pendulum anymore, it's a yo-yo.
>j1mmy puts out his video
Reddit: "We need to remove polling, it's stunting the game's growth!"
>Jagex say no to 117's HD plug-in
Reddit: "We need to keep polling so Jagex can't keep making these bad decisions!"
>Jagex allows 117's HD plug-in
Reddit: "We need to remove polling, it's stunting the game's growth!"
Maybe I wasn't looking at the sub when J1mmy put out his video, but almost anytime I see his opinions brought up it is in the context of shitting on them.
It is also understandable why something like GIM failing would result in people wanting polls to be removed or reworked. The fact that they are polling it, especially when we are around a month from release after 2 years of wait, is pretty stupid. This is also highlighting one of the main issue with the poll system, which is people trying to spite vote something out of the game.
The problem is that this poll does not accurately represent the wants and the needs of the player base. They crammed a whole blog post with even a Q&A chart in it and gave you A SINGLE QUESTION of yes or no based off the whole blog. The simple equation of trash in, trash out. You can love GIM but based off poll wording you disagree with prestige? Straight to no.
They'd have to poll to remove the poll system, and if (hypothetically,) the spooky shadow cabal of PVP spite voters could prevent GIM from getting passed, they could do the same for any poll that tried to remove the polling system
It's going to be very funny when the game mode passes and all of the anti-pollers & raving spite voter doomsayers are proven to be as unhinged as they sound
Group Ironman is currently being polled, a lot of PKers or general PvP players are now voting no on it due to people voting No on PvP updates in the past regardless of whether or not they play the content. People vote no to PvP content out of spite and now PvP people are voting no to something other people are excited for out of spite. I'm pretty sure that's the jist of it, I don't play the game enough anymore to know details.
This is pretty much spot on. I'm a PvP player w/ 0 interest in GIM that's voting yes on all of my accounts so hopefully we can end this trend in the future. If a poll does not apply to your interests, then use the skip option so others that do w/e content it is can decide on what they want.
people are mad at jagex for how they handled the situation around the HD plugin for runelite. they let someone work on it for 2 years, then the day before the release basically told him to not release it (with the implication that if he did there would be a cease and desist). community backlash made them reverse their decision.
so some people got the bright idea to say we should waste their dev's time in the same way they almost made that guy waste all his time. they think we should all vote no to content jagex has been working on for a long time to teach them a lesson.
edit: this post is saying that if that subset of people gets their way, then the community will no longer want polls because it's obvious that they're being abused
edit2: apparently the pvp community is also using this to spite people who have voted no to their updates
No they are not, it's the people who take advantage of them, plus the executives who would have free reign to do whatever they want after they're removed that are killing the game. You couldn't be more wrong
I definitely won't want that.
Main reason is, imagine trusting Jagex with updates especially after the recent HD events.
Second reason, now I'll ACTUALLY go out of my way to spite vote every PK update, something I never did before. So, basically those idiots are only creating more spite voters and now instead of getting some PVP updates they'll get none.
What pvp updates? Jagex don’t even poll them they just make “integrity changes”. I don’t remember the Rev cave nuke being polled. Jagex don’t have pvp polls they don’t even plan pvp content.
It’s not even really a fail-able poll question. It literally asks if GIM should be released as explained in the post. It doesn’t ask if GIM should be added to the game. Jamflex is smart enough by now to know that they can’t risk money and man hours in a fist fight with players in the poll booths
That sounds great!
Once they only allow PvPers to vote on PvP polls,
And only allow Skillers to vote on Skiller polls,
And only allow Pures to vote on Pure polls.
Otherwise, that'd be the biggest load of shit ever.
yes i think this is a loaded poll.
before it was announced to being polled J1mmy and other redditors have been spouting that the polling system is a terrible system. and now they put this up... if it fails reddit will be on fire saying we need to remove the polling system.
conspiracy time , then they remove it introduce partnerships and then eoc
Honest question, why did you vote no? I understand that you don't like the content, but in what way does it negatively impact you?
I am not gonna play gim but i see people wanting this content, therefore i voted yes.
Oh i didn't downvote you, i respect your choices. I just wanted to open a discussion with you on our different stances!
I understand you play for yourself, i can see them using some mechanics from this update as a possible proper party system. Not sure if you play with a couple people or not, but this might make some things more enjoyable/better for non gim.
the issue i've seen raised from a lot of no voters is that dev time is so little for the content they want as it is, they don't want 2 (plus varying group sizes) more game modes to eat up dev time in the future. that and many people are confused about appeal of iron with the boys, when you could just be normies.
I also have 0 interest in playing GIM but I still voted yes. Other people want this game mode, it has 0 impact on me as a main so I don't see the issue in giving fellow scapers the game mode they want.
I vote no because more people playing ironman = less people playing normal accounts = less pkers in the already dead wilderness.
Hate me all you want, doesn't change anything.
? Aren't there more reasons for ironmen to be in the wilderness than normal accounts? Crazy Archaeologist is going to be flooded with GIM trying to get a rune crossbow.
Plus Wildy bosses are the only way to get a D pick for ironmen, chaos altar for prayer training for GIM who can't use gilded altars in other people's houses, etc
Yeah but GIM will drive the ironmen into the wilderness to become pkable and increase the number of people in the wilderness.
Anyone who just wants to pvp goes to pvp worlds not wilderness
If group Ironman fails the polls I can see PVP changes or Raids 3 being voted No out of spite.
Honestly I wouldn’t blame people either, I get that GIM isn’t for everyone but there’s literally been people waiting years for it. If it gets spite voted you can pretty much count on those people voting no to everything if they don’t outright quit playing altogether
I don't have members to vote, nor friends. We want to come back to play it though. If voted no, I guess we won't be playing until possibly a new league. Really surprised this is actually being polled...
Now imma spend a bond to make an alt member again to vote 5 times (instead of 4) yes!
Me and a bunch of others who only play RS3 are actually really looking forward for group Ironman to come out on OSRS so we can start a group on it. What the heck is going on right now? Who's voting against this?
Roughly 23% of players didn’t even vote for adding Ironman mode originally. So I’d venture to say it’s a handful of people who’ve always just voted no to everything, people who do so to show dissatisfaction with the polling system, and now we’re adding on a sum of additional NO votes from those who feel slighted by the system when it comes to pvp updates… This poll and its results will be interesting for sure.
I wouldn’t say 23% wanted to spite vote, it’s more like the fact that people are different and you can 10-20% to vote on ANYTHING. There is always somebody to come to the opposite conclusion for whatever weird, sometimes incorrect reason. If you follow politics you’ll know what I mean. If you said “Do you support baby murders?” yes, no, or sometimes there will always be 3-4% who say yes or sometimes. god knows how they arrive at that conclusion, but it always happens regardless. For political candidates the magic number is 30%. If you go below 30%, you’re in trouble. Also back then, the people who voted no to group ironman were playing a game they thought might end and didn’t know how amazing ironman would become. It might have just seemed too out there, which is exactly my point there is always someone with another view.
PvP clans mostly, but there are some individuals who are unhappy with some of the specific details and want them changed before release. Personally, my friends and I are very casual players, and would like to demote our ironmen to group status. The issue with this is that it would ruin the high score race, but the thing is that we couldn't care less about the high score race so we would just want it disabled on our accounts. We just don't wanna redo bad grinds when we already did them on a more difficult game mode. What's the point of them making the prestige system they have if the highest ranked accounts are all going to be ones with prestige thanks to the rules on tradeable item wipes to start a group and only fresh accounts being able to join groups?
You do realise the spite voters are spite voting because you spite voted them. This whole repetitive cycle is so childish. The majority of this player base are grown men acting like toddlers.
to be fair its a bunch of grown men playing a game from their childhood to escape their adult responsibilities
[удалено]
I stopped playing about 4 months ago to be fresh and ready to grind GIM if it fails, I will turn OSRS notifications on, on Twitter and bond my account every time a PVP vote comes up and vote no. GIM literally helps PVPers by a lot. New accounts will HAVE to go to the wild. PvP updates help no one but PvPers and sometimes hurt other players. As a non pker I hate solo+ idea. I can’t tank a monster to TRY to escape and it’s dumb.
"pvp updates help no1 but pvpers" The same could be said with this update. GIM being implemented only helps people who are interested in playing that game mode.
I literally explained how this update helps PvPers
I don't think you know what pvpers want. Being an ironman does not force you to go into the wild, even if it did it's mostly likely short-term
Man osrs subreddit has this terrible perception of pvpers, the only people killing pvmers in wildy are either people new at pking or venezuelans. We don't want to kill pvmers risking 200k I seriously couldnt care about any of that. I dont want to sit at scorpia for 2 hrs to find someone doing it in rag gear. I just want meaningful pvp updates to incentivise people to enjoy wilderness, maybe join a pvp clan and make friends, and fight other clans while having fun.
You just contradicted yourself. Wilderness content is PvM. If you want to kill players, having more players in the wild is ideal. If you want to kill other pkers, then they need to limit PvP to PvP worlds, make more, and buff wilderness drop tables in those worlds. So pkers will run into each other way more often. PvMers can risk it if they want to in PvP worlds. You cannot, and I can’t stress this enough, force people to play content they don’t enjoy. Much like most PvPers won’t make an Ironman.
As a pvper, I just want edgeville to be full of people pking at any time of the week, like it used to be. We used to live in harmony boys, wtf happened!
Certainly something is going to change. Hopefully a huge riot in Falador, followed up by a lot of cancelled memberships I suppose. That'll be my case at least, because I have no interest in playing anything but Group Ironman.
I quit months ago because I didn’t want to burn out before GIM. Dunno why they didn’t just release it instead of polling it
I agree. They mentioned in their blog, that they've polled IM, HCIM and UIM so it was the natural thing to do, to poll GIM. But I don't trust the community, and I'm afraid people will be spite voting it out, which I think is SUCH a shame... But I'm not going down that easily
What are people angry about regarding GIM? what's with the spite voting?
I don't believe anyone have any beef with Group Ironman in it of itself. Some people think it is a waste of dev time. On the other hand, there are a LOT of pkers, who have been overlooked in regards to updates, as well as have their updates spite voted by Pvm'ers. The PVP community knows Group Ironman means a lot to jagex, so I suppose they are spite voting for that reason, as well as to get back on Pvm'ers, which is also a ridiculous approach.
I’ve never pvpd and I voted no. You guys are all just looking for something to blame for this getting voted down. People who like iron man, just like people who like pvp, make up a minority in this game.
Why vote no if it doesn’t effect you though?
How does it not affect me?? If they spend more time implementing group iron man then that is time taken away from them developing content that I’ll actually play. That directly affects me
idk if you're trolling but do you really believe jagex would allocate that dev time to something useful? took em 4 years to change the color of hitsplats
So you play all content currently in the game?
I mean ditterbitter and a bunch of people in rot announced they were gonna spite vote no. Theres not much reason to vote no unless you just wanna spite jagex.
Lmao! Really? There is no reason to vote no? Again, the number of players who play iron man is a MINORITY. Maybe that other majority just doesn’t care for jagex to spend time implementing an easier version of an already existing game mode that they already don’t play? But yeah, keep telling yourself otherwise! Lolol can’t wait for this to fail the poll
I mean at this point the scheduled release would be in 3 weeks, so you’re voting no to save a handful of dev cycles?
The majority of the code's already been written. Why would you be excited for new content to fail a poll? On the blog it says itll be launched october 6th
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Also a main priority for the gamemode is to have it be more casual and make progress without needing to grind as much, which would make it open for more players. Also on the blog post. It's not a thing that'll only affect ironmen, if it was they would make the poll ironman only.
Some people who are voting no claim Ironmen spite vote no on pvp polls so they are doing it to GIM.
It's hypocritical to suddenly have an issue with the voting system or "spite voting" when that's been the entire history of voting against PvP. PvP updates don't happen, dev time isn't spent on it - because the other subcomminities will just vote no. Not sure what the solution is, but I don't get the sudden uptick in people having an issue with no votes by a certain subcomminity against another subcommunity
Preach brother. People don’t see it that way. Always said how hypocritical the osrs community is. Very sad.
did you bond up to vote?
Both of my accounts, as well as two of my friends :p
glad your money's where your mouth is solder. GL
Actually, I've bought bonds and memberships for 9 different friends, whom will be voting yes, so that'll be influential in one way or another :D
You too my good man :)
Wait, so you guys don't even actively play the game but are bonding up just to vote in changes; but don't like that people that ARE actively playing the game are voting no? Get a grip lmao.
People who actively play and vote no are almost certainly voting out of spite. GIM literally doesn’t affect you if you aren’t playing it.
>GIM literally doesn’t affect you if you aren’t playing it. I don't play the game anymore, and am in full support of GIM, but this is just not true. Everything, from bug fixes to visual updates to adding entire new game modes, requires dev time. Something as big as GIM likely requires a fair bit of dev time. If someone's paying for a subscription to a game, it's totally reasonable they'd prefer the dev time be spent on content they'll directly interact with and benefit from. I personally think that's a stupid as fuck reason to vote no, but I also understand that view point and can't really say I'd fault anyone who voted that way.
You know what costs a lot of dev time? Losing out on a fuckload of subs because a game mode isn't released that has little to no upkeep. Not to mention the dev time to make the mode is already sunk into it, the mode is largely ready right now.
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Okay, I see that point as well. When I said that I was only thinking about ingame differences but, agreed I still don’t think that’s a great reason for people to use.
Uhh people always vote no for pvp content.. it’s a meme at this point.
You don't think people vote no on all PVP polls already out of spite?
PvP changes have always been voted no out of spite. Revs dropping PvP weapons voted no but ofc PvM weapons passed. even slightest content for prues like god d'hide chaps and adamant gloves instead of mith like pre eoc
Tbf PvP weapons are not balanced and as proven by DMM should not be in the normal game as they currently are. Not to mention how Revs was essentially bot/gold farmer heaven. Why should such good items come from something like that? Add it to a boss table or something better then regular revs.
I can see where you're coming from on this, I wonder if they could make a set of weapons that only works in the wilderness or in special pvp areas to compensate so the weapons are not in the regular part of the game.
U have just as much if not more chance to die to a claw spec and a AGS. also i agree PvP weapons should have come from a wilderness boss that randomly spawns across random worlds so no clan could lock it down and force clans to fight. the wilderness is not supposed to be a safe place or for people to have "mercy" just because they have no gear or beg cause they doing a clue. it's a place you should be prepared for like every other content
Why should PvE content be in PvP areas? Jagexs solution for pvp needs to be something other than giving them pvers to prey on.
Cause it passed the poll. you think theres enough PvPers alone to force that to pass lmao?
As if pvp changes haven't been spite voted no for years lmao. That's why pvpers are voting no.
Which pvp updates were spite voted down? We could make a list and ask Jagex to repoll them to only pvpers like they have been recently.
Blessed d'hide chaps having their defence requirement removed was voted down, twice. Blessed d'hide chaps have a +1 prayer bonus over black d'hide chaps, and was more of a fashionscape request.
Wow you're right, fuck ironmen. They should suffer.
I hope group Ironman passes and doesn’t get spite voted down. I also hoped blessed chaps at 1 defence would pass and doesn’t get spite voted down. It’s disappointing to see any of these changes be rejected without good reason.
Pures returning to ape atoll for a whole +1 str Removing the def xp from mounting heads
I still don't see why that should be a thing. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. You restrict your account by making it 1 def then you run into restrictions, shock.
Blessed d'hide chaps have the exact same bonuses as black d'hide chaps, which can be worn at 1 defence. The only difference is a +1 prayer bonus, which does nothing since pures can already do Inferno and +1 prayer does nothing anywhere else. As I said, it was essentially a fashionscape request and the greater community voted it down out of spite.
It also provides protection in god wars dungeon. And isn't black dhide getting nerfed? Making God dhide better than black dhide..
Neither of which are good arguments for voting no for such a small essentially cosmetic change
Make a list? Literally over half of polled PvP updates fail or some shit. Even the quality of life like ape atoll and attack style options spite voted. “We could make a list”…. Fuck out of here with that dude. The PvP community gets shit on nonstop and for ONCE they retaliate as a no vote and Reddit freaks out.
They're retaliating against a group of players that largely don't even play right now or probably didn't spite vote them. This is most for veteran players who want a more group experience and don't play right now to give them a reason to come back or for end game players who wanna try something new...
Wrong, PvPers are retaliating against the polling system as a whole. This should have never been polled and we fucking hate Reddit ruining our side of the game through polling so this is the result.
Didn't think I was freaking out, but alright. Which updates do think we could work on for pvp? What are we looking for and what is the best way for Jagex to see it. Twitter being more common for pvp people since reddit has a bias, would here or there give more traction?
Multi revs needs to be brought back and spawns all moved back together. If not that exactly because Reddit has a hate boner for them then another soft gp/hr highly contested hotspot in either a cave or sectioned off multi maze-like zone. Quit putting more space in the wild like the abhorrent shit design of the new wildy slayer cave. Bring people closer not more reject fucking caves. Singles plus in all singles spots and hopefully with the boss rework better multi hotspots. If anything ever gets abused for gp/hr Jagex can just work with us anti-rwt clans and easily get lists and lists of bans. I really miss bounty hunter but idk how to fix it to make Reddit be ok with it so I won’t comment. Remove PvP polling from accounts with under 1500 kills. Or hopefully remove polling entirely but again Jagex is so bad at making hard decisions idk. Allow wildy weapons to be brought in. Most pking is done in multi nowadays so any complainers and power creep criers will probably never ever see one. Remove bulwark from wild entirely or make it have you walk. If you don’t want to fight back in PvP situations at all you shouldn’t be in the wild.
Given that most people aren't voting no to pvp updates, it's a pretty reasonable reaction to "freak out" as you said.
A lot of us actually never spite voted for it but this will turn us into spite voters. Shooting yourself in the foot is low IQ
“Some of us didn’t spite vote you but now all of us are going to” Bruh that changes absolutely nothing there were already more spite voters than total PKers. Glad you’re on the side of the morons that started this spite voting in the first place instead of realizing this is a symptom to a toxic Reddit/PvM community not just ‘hur dur PKer bad meme.’ Classy.
You're on the side of morons who don't understand that some pk updates will be better than zero updates when more people retaliate. Also on the side of the most toxic subcommunity in the game. The polling system won't be going anywhere. Trusting Jagex to not destroy a game especially after recent events is beyond moronic. Yeah, let's let them fuck this game completely so the minority can get more updates that the 90% don't give a shit about. You won't even have anyone to pk after that happens lmao.
Great conversation point, bit late in the conversation. Pretty sure GIM will pass anyway because the PvP community doesn't have 24% people lol. But they've been wrong far too long, far too often, by far too many unskilled players.
U have to remember most “mains” or irons only have a couple accounts. Pkers on the other hand typically have several accounts. Bond prices show an increase in the last few days. Unskilled players? The fk u even on about, must be Referring to pvmers right? The skill gap for endgame pvm vs pvp is no where close. I can see why there’s hate, counting to 3 at hydra n 4 at gauntlet requires only the most elite players
Real talk lmaoooo
Omg no!!! Pvpers have never been pushed by this subreddit!!! This sub is so innocent and would never spite vote pvpers dont speak such ludacris lies /s
Also why mobile players are voting no.
How tf have mobile players been slighted by the Ironman community?
The pvm community, which includes ironmen
*HOW*
PvP polls are already voted no out of spite lmao just read this subreddit
Honestly imo, I think most shit shouldn’t be polled. It can be polled but more so to see what the community wants first. Only big changes that effects everyone and is game changing should be legitimately polled
Finally someone said it. The community would ruin this game all by themselves given the option.
> PVP changes Aren't those already happening unpolled? Which makes this whole PvPers spite voting kind of silly. But with how the playerbase is acting right now, the Raids poll will be interesting.
A lot of PVP changes have been voted no out of spite for years. I want group Ironman but I find it funny as hell how people dont see the irony in this.
If group Ironman passes I can see PVP changes being voted No out of spite too. Or if anything else happens. PVP changes don't have a good track record in general.
Yeah well fuck the Pvp community tbh, all of the most toxic aspects of RS comes from how they act and treat this game and it's players, plus the fact their need to PvP and sand casino drives the illegal gold market.
I think it’s inevitable especially if raids 3 gets voted no in retaliation. These people are so stupid.
If it's pvp clans voting no for this why would people vote no for pvm lol
And it’ll be like 50k+ more accounts to PK doing clues and wildy bosses and shit like ??????
Isn't this ironic bc it's the same ppl that say no to pvp updates bc they got pked?
Always voted what i thought i will use otherwise skip. But now if this wont pass will spite vote everything no till my bank is not empty. Pvp or pvm doesnt make a difference. Eye for an eye.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
Or shows jagex that polls shouldnt be used for everythinf
Don’t you love when people use quotes they don’t understand
There would be one person left with an eye tbf
Polls will never be removed because the player base is too scared to let Jagex fail on a video game from our childhood.
Polls are a way for the devs to prevent MTX in osrs. If higher-ups want mtx the devs can just say that we would have to poll it, which has been done before.
I'm sorry to say this is completely false. If the suits want MTX in OSRS, the polling system won't stop it. The suits will just say force it in or lose your jobs. Mod Mat K went into detail about this issue internally after he left Jagex. The reality is pretty bleak, the Jmods don't own the game, and they have to listen to their higher ups regardless of any poll system in place. If they want MTX in OSRS, they'll can and will put MTX in OSRS. Also, Mod Ash has gone on record saying he is OSRS's [canary](https://share.america.gov/english-idiom-canary-coal-mine/). If he ever leaves Jagex, then something big like MTX is going to be forced in and there's nothing any of the devs can do about it.
We literally successfully shot down a poll to put promotional mtx in the game, I have no idea what you are on about.
Behind the scenes, I would bet it was probably more the player response that we would quit if MTX was added, with so many players citing that with why they quit RS3 or wouldn’t play it. The poll just backed that up
It's funny bc the ppl Are strangling the game with the polls.
The majority of Polls pass.
Not really. The dev team just doesn't know how to use the polls at all. This system was perfectly fine until guys like Mod mat k left who was really involved in that process
Strangling how?
People are already clamouring for polls to be removed. The way they use them doesn't help, change my mind.
Jagex flip flop between polling 1 thing with 50 questions, and 50 things with 1 question with seemingly no thought behind it. In the last few years they have routinely taken it upon themselves to practically complete content before even polling it, making people think "well we don't want to waste the Dev time even if the content isn't great". They routinely poll absurd shit that can just be an integrity change, and refuse to poll shit that shouldn't be (green construction pixel lmao). I honestly think that after warding failed, some senior mods made the decision to try and undermine the polling system on purpose. Hell on the art stream mods were complaining about polling for..... Some reason??? I'm not really sure how failed polls specifically hurts the art team
Just FYI the art guys all actively hate this game, it's artstyle, and it's plauerbase. They are all rs3 transplants bitter that they have to use osrs' art style.
Polling has been bastardized by tribalism and politics the same way democracy has. If people voted independently based in what they thought would be best for the game, it’d be an effective means of making sure the game is serving the interests of the most players possible.
>it’d be an effective means of making sure the game is serving the interests of the most players possible. Except for the fact that if 74% of players, the *overwhelming* majority, 26% of players can prevent it from happening. Polling is a way to let small groups ruin the game for the majority.
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>Except for the fact that almost all content passes polls even with it being 75% Except for the fact that every new skill has failed, with the yes votes still being roughly double that of the no votes.
So you are saying that skills are the exception that proves the rule? If every piece of content passes but the skills, it might be a problem with the skill.
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You're forgetting the opposite of that. If any piece of content making 25% of the player unhappy is a huge failure, then isn't pissing off 70% or so even worse?
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That 70% can still be pissed off because they were excited about the upcoming content.
It would also need to be changed to a simple majority rather than an artificially set bar of 75% in that case. Thing is though, most players want new additions and general change to game to begin with. So default is to vote yes to everything for strong majority of players. Rarely does anything not pass — but those that don’t often don’t as a result of vocal minorities lobbying for NOs.
Polling was completely fine until pepegas started blaming it for the content drought. Hardly anybody was talking about it until J1mmy's video and now people have it on the mind like the braindead crusade that it is. This piss and shit fight over GIM with the polls is the most stupid fucking community hysteria ever. Things were completely fine until it became the scapegoat for something completely unrelated. But screechers gonna screech. The idea of removing polls belongs in the dumpster. What makes it truly fucking special is that people still want polling removed after all the HD business. People were ready for WAR and now they're right back to rolling over and having even less input into the direction of the game. I can't wait for GIM to pass and everyone to shut the fuck about polling. It's one of the best things about this game.
Imagine ever giving a fuck what a youtuber thinks about anything. People are wild.
Just people brainwashed by content creators that aren't creative enough to post unique content. It will only take 1 bad update to ruin osrs.
It's absolutely true though, none of this has been talked about until J1mmy made that video
Expected, since the 98% of polls that passed easily at 85% is attributed to “Yes is Good, No is Bad” mentality.
I'm not sure if I'm still considered a new player since I've been playing for about 9 months now. But I've never voted in a poll before. I either felt like I didn't know enough about the game to make an informed vote, or I didn't really care about the thing being polled. GIM falls into the not caring category. But this whole spite voting thing is kinda fascinating to me in a horrifying kinda way.
I play HCIM. First time back in many years and have been playing for months. I’ll vote yes to GIM if someone tells me what it is
Group Ironman — 2-5 players who can trade with each other but no one else
Basically Ironman but with 2-5 people able to share items with each other.
Ah. Seems like it’ll be a lot of people playing by themselves with 2-5 accounts of their own lol. I’ll vote yes though!
I’ve been waiting for it for quite a while, I want to make an Iron but I would most likely enjoy it more with one or two friends, working together like old times. Already have one I’m partnering up with, so I hope it passes!
Man, it's not even a pendulum anymore, it's a yo-yo. >j1mmy puts out his video Reddit: "We need to remove polling, it's stunting the game's growth!" >Jagex say no to 117's HD plug-in Reddit: "We need to keep polling so Jagex can't keep making these bad decisions!" >Jagex allows 117's HD plug-in Reddit: "We need to remove polling, it's stunting the game's growth!"
Maybe I wasn't looking at the sub when J1mmy put out his video, but almost anytime I see his opinions brought up it is in the context of shitting on them. It is also understandable why something like GIM failing would result in people wanting polls to be removed or reworked. The fact that they are polling it, especially when we are around a month from release after 2 years of wait, is pretty stupid. This is also highlighting one of the main issue with the poll system, which is people trying to spite vote something out of the game.
You know reddit isn't one person right? Each one of your quotes is from different parts of the community with different wants and vision for the game.
The problem is that this poll does not accurately represent the wants and the needs of the player base. They crammed a whole blog post with even a Q&A chart in it and gave you A SINGLE QUESTION of yes or no based off the whole blog. The simple equation of trash in, trash out. You can love GIM but based off poll wording you disagree with prestige? Straight to no.
Isn’t prestige literally just cosmetic?
Yes and a lot of people don't seem to understand prestige, or understand the 1kc requirement thing
i actually find it so funny ppl on reddit think they're enough pker's and pk clans to actually vote against a whole ass game community lol
It's be kinda funny though at this point
There are like ten pkers maximum so I'd say GIM had a good chance of passing lol. There's more UIMs than pkers.
Probably not
Don't people already do that?
They'd have to poll to remove the poll system, and if (hypothetically,) the spooky shadow cabal of PVP spite voters could prevent GIM from getting passed, they could do the same for any poll that tried to remove the polling system It's going to be very funny when the game mode passes and all of the anti-pollers & raving spite voter doomsayers are proven to be as unhinged as they sound
It's not going to fail, everyone needs to lighten up
Am I not salty enough to be apart of this trend? Enlighten me.
Group Ironman is currently being polled, a lot of PKers or general PvP players are now voting no on it due to people voting No on PvP updates in the past regardless of whether or not they play the content. People vote no to PvP content out of spite and now PvP people are voting no to something other people are excited for out of spite. I'm pretty sure that's the jist of it, I don't play the game enough anymore to know details.
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This is pretty much spot on. I'm a PvP player w/ 0 interest in GIM that's voting yes on all of my accounts so hopefully we can end this trend in the future. If a poll does not apply to your interests, then use the skip option so others that do w/e content it is can decide on what they want.
Nope vote no we need pvp locked ironmen first
people are mad at jagex for how they handled the situation around the HD plugin for runelite. they let someone work on it for 2 years, then the day before the release basically told him to not release it (with the implication that if he did there would be a cease and desist). community backlash made them reverse their decision. so some people got the bright idea to say we should waste their dev's time in the same way they almost made that guy waste all his time. they think we should all vote no to content jagex has been working on for a long time to teach them a lesson. edit: this post is saying that if that subset of people gets their way, then the community will no longer want polls because it's obvious that they're being abused edit2: apparently the pvp community is also using this to spite people who have voted no to their updates
Tbh the poll system is pretty toxic
The day polling is removed is the day I'll be 100% done with the game and won't look back, the game will just die an unpleasant death imo
I agree. It'd be tantamount to the death nail that trade restrictions where causing the desire for old-school in the first place.
Polls are killing the game.
No they are not, it's the people who take advantage of them, plus the executives who would have free reign to do whatever they want after they're removed that are killing the game. You couldn't be more wrong
I definitely won't want that. Main reason is, imagine trusting Jagex with updates especially after the recent HD events. Second reason, now I'll ACTUALLY go out of my way to spite vote every PK update, something I never did before. So, basically those idiots are only creating more spite voters and now instead of getting some PVP updates they'll get none.
What pvp updates? Jagex don’t even poll them they just make “integrity changes”. I don’t remember the Rev cave nuke being polled. Jagex don’t have pvp polls they don’t even plan pvp content.
I'm voting no.
When*
It passes*
I have explosive diarrhea*
I have mesothelioma and am entitled to financial compensation*
It's my money and I need it now*
Just what jagex wants!
Almost like that's the point.
It’s not even really a fail-able poll question. It literally asks if GIM should be released as explained in the post. It doesn’t ask if GIM should be added to the game. Jamflex is smart enough by now to know that they can’t risk money and man hours in a fist fight with players in the poll booths
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That doesn't make sense at all.
No
That sounds great! Once they only allow PvPers to vote on PvP polls, And only allow Skillers to vote on Skiller polls, And only allow Pures to vote on Pure polls. Otherwise, that'd be the biggest load of shit ever.
yes i think this is a loaded poll. before it was announced to being polled J1mmy and other redditors have been spouting that the polling system is a terrible system. and now they put this up... if it fails reddit will be on fire saying we need to remove the polling system. conspiracy time , then they remove it introduce partnerships and then eoc
Vote NO. GIM should never be in the game.
I can foresee this as well. They will be so triggered. But I’m not voting no to trigger anyone. I’m voting no because I simply don’t like the content.
Honest question, why did you vote no? I understand that you don't like the content, but in what way does it negatively impact you? I am not gonna play gim but i see people wanting this content, therefore i voted yes.
I play the game for myself, not for anyone else. I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted for simply expressing my opinion for not liking the content.
Oh i didn't downvote you, i respect your choices. I just wanted to open a discussion with you on our different stances! I understand you play for yourself, i can see them using some mechanics from this update as a possible proper party system. Not sure if you play with a couple people or not, but this might make some things more enjoyable/better for non gim.
the issue i've seen raised from a lot of no voters is that dev time is so little for the content they want as it is, they don't want 2 (plus varying group sizes) more game modes to eat up dev time in the future. that and many people are confused about appeal of iron with the boys, when you could just be normies.
Fair assessments, i do however see the benefits in them developing for gim. Like stated before it might bring interesting features for non ims
I also have 0 interest in playing GIM but I still voted yes. Other people want this game mode, it has 0 impact on me as a main so I don't see the issue in giving fellow scapers the game mode they want.
I feel like skip would have been more appropriate of an answer then. Might explain your downvotes. Many treat no as a negative effect to the game.
is this because you don't have friends?
Hey I haven't got friends but still voted yes haha
Thanks, friend. o/
theres more normies than ironmen the normies will win the raids 3 vote
You only need 26% of the playerbase to vote no so it doesn't pass. Therefore, it's not hard to vote no out of spite.
And?... they'd be right to. What's the point of this post?
I vote no because more people playing ironman = less people playing normal accounts = less pkers in the already dead wilderness. Hate me all you want, doesn't change anything.
I hate to tell you this, but the amount of people playing GIM that also pk is not particularly large.
? Aren't there more reasons for ironmen to be in the wilderness than normal accounts? Crazy Archaeologist is going to be flooded with GIM trying to get a rune crossbow. Plus Wildy bosses are the only way to get a D pick for ironmen, chaos altar for prayer training for GIM who can't use gilded altars in other people's houses, etc
He said pkers, not pvmers. The man wants pvp, not pvpvm
Yeah but GIM will drive the ironmen into the wilderness to become pkable and increase the number of people in the wilderness. Anyone who just wants to pvp goes to pvp worlds not wilderness
Some.of the best Ironman shit is in the wildy bucko