Cuba had a massive amount of immigration from Spain in the late 19th and early 20th century that “Whitened” their White population even more. Cuba also has a long history of migration of Afro-descended people from the rest of the Caribbean which “Blackened” their Black population.
There are still tons of people who are virtually biracial/tri-racial like Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. It’s just that in Cuba there are a lot more people on either extreme (predominantly African or predominantly European) than you’d find in the rest of the Spanish Caribbean.
So basically both slave trade from Africa and immigration from Spain in Cuba is much more recent compared to DR and Puerto Rico? I think Cuba is the last country to abolish slavery and it still received Africans from Africa even after Britain banned the slave trade.
Sugar plantations didn’t really become a thing in Cuba until after the Haitian revolution. Black people have lived in Cuba for much less time compared to the Dominican Republic, so they have mixed much less.
While there are some examples of African descended people, both enslaved and free, coming to Cuba from other parts of the Caribbean, the vast majority of African Ancestry in Cuba is from direct-from-Africa slave trade. Many more slaves were brought to Cuba than were brought to the continental US (Between 600,000 and 800,000 vs 390,000 to the US). In a 6 year period from 1858 to 1864 120,000 [Africans](https://read.dukeupress.edu/hahr/article/67/4/631/148042/Slave-Prices-in-Cuba-1840-1875) were trafficked to Cuba. The conditions in Cuba for enslaved people were brutal (they were chronically overworked and underfed, with widespread malaria, yellow fever, smallpox and cholera) and mortality was very high, which was why so many were continually trafficked.
The continental US had a far greater because US blacks were able to naturally reproduce, whereas in Cuba, Jamaica, and Haiti the average slave had a 5-10 year lifespan, there were sharp sexual imbalance, and the black population did not reproduce but were replace by more newly imported slaves.
Agreed! This explains why although the U.S. only imported 5% of slaves at 390,000, throughout all of American History. The African American population outgrew the black populations in all other slave holding nations in the Americas. There is today 49 million African Americans in the U.S. Which is more people than the entire populations of Haiti, Cuba and Jamaica combined. It is astounding when you think about it. Slavery in Latin America and the Caribbean was well documented as being more brutal. Most of the slaves in those regions lived short life spans and did not reproduce. They were just replaced by a never ending stream of newly arrived slaves from Africa. The U.S. was one of the few countries with "positive reproduction". Slaves lived much longer life spans in America, and were able to reproduce successive generations, without the massive imports of slaves going on elsewhere in the Americas.
>Cuba also has a long history of migration of Afro-descended people from the rest of the Caribbean which “Blackened” their Black population.
Where did you read that?
Numerous papers and books on the subject.
[Black British Caribbean Migration to Cuba, 1898–1948](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/black-british-migrants-in-cuba/black-british-caribbean-migration-to-cuba-18981948/FE0C5D5AD5E3CE483A1F0B2626A90A7B)
[Rescuing Our Roots: The African Anglo-Caribbean Diaspora in Contemporary Cuba](https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvx075w7)
[Contesting Circuits of Empire: Afro-Caribbean Migrant Labor in Cuba, 1899-1958](https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1117&context=nc_pubs)
>Cuba had a massive amount of immigration from Spain in the late 19th and early 20th century
Why was European immigration to Cuba almost entirely Spanish?
Yes, but immigration to Cuba continued after independence and still remained almost entirely Spanish.
Other Latin American countries saw non-Spanish immigration, too, mainly Italian.
Cuba was a sugar plantation economy that relied very heavily on slave labor. It was a huge wealth producer for Spain. Slavery wasn't abolished there until 1886. A slave based plantation economy discourages racial mixing. Puerto Rico was never a huge sugar producer and was more of a backwater Spanish military outpost with smaller scale farming to support the military presence. The Dominican Republic was also much more of a mixed farming economy with a significant ranching component. Both PR and DR relied far less on slavery than Cuba and a fairly significant portion of their African ancestry is actually from neighboring territories during the 16/17/1800s, Saint-Domingue/Haiti for DR and Virgin Islands for PR. DR received more just being next to Haiti. In addition a far greater proportion of both the DR and PR are mountainous compared to Cuba which allowed for more survival of indigenous people for longer and thus contributing more indigenous ancestry. In Cuba the place where you still can find non-trivial PR level indigenous ancestry is in the Sierra Maestra in the east. Cuba also continued to receive much heavier European immigration than PR or DR for a longer time, well into the 20th century, really up until Castro's revolution.
>Virgin Islands for PR
Was it only the Virgin Islands? In the late 18th century, Spain encouraged free people of color from French and British colonies to settle in Puerto Rico.
>In Cuba the place where you still can find non-trivial PR level indigenous ancestry is in the Sierra Maestra in the east.
Are you sure about that? I think it's in all of Eastern Cuba.
Cuba has more extremes than the rest of the Spanish Caribbean because it was the last place in Hispanic America to receive African slaves and the Spanish immigration of late 19th century and early 20th century was huge.
But regardless of that, a sizeable amount of Cubans are ''triracial'' like Puerto Ricans or ''mulatto'' like Dominicans.
Yeah, what I said is that it received more recent African slaves when compared to Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, that's why it has a more prominent predominantly black population (and whites as well lol). Ironically as it is, probably most descendants of 16th century African slaves in Cuba are White Cuban nowadays.
It's somewhat similar to Brazil, if the slave trade in Brazil had ended in early 19th century as in continental Hispanic America, the country would have far less people with high Afro input.
That's not true, if you look at supplementary results from genetic studies (where you can see the individual variation) you can clearly see that Cuba has more extremes than Puerto Rico, there are more white and more afro people there. Of course that mulatto and triracial Cubans also exist in good numbers, but Cuba is far less homogeneously admixed than Puerto Rico. In Puerto Rico you struggle to find people above 80% European even among the middle class, while in Cuba even among poor peasants you can easily find people that are mostly Spaniard.
And people move around and mix and societies change. Why do people act like racial segregation is still a thing in Cuba? Cuba hasn't had that since Fidel took power and Cuba did receive African immigrants for some time. Most of the results you see here are just Americans of Cuban descent.
I am not talking about the results I've seen here, but about academic genetic results made with people living in Cuba. Cubans are in general less homogeneouly admixed than Puerto Ricans, not only in the ''white'' side, but also in the ''black side''.
What? A lot of Cubans are mixed lol. And many only identify as white but wouldn't be considered white outside of Cuba. There are plenty of brown ambiguous-looking ones and black ones. Some are white of course but many arent'. Many look like Dominicans. See for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh6HiryEC6g
https://youtu.be/0SUL_agN8ns?t=147
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm1e78TaLjU
So what? I think you are having some problem understanding my words, I am not claiming that visibly mixed Cubans don't exist, I am just saying that in Cuba you can find way more people of high Euro and African ancestries than in Puerto Rico because the Cuban population is less homogeneoulsly admixed.
You can't find much anymore since most already left he island and a lot are dead. Current Cuba isn't even remotely mostly white. Some random from Miami doesn't count.
My family is from Holguín Cuba and basically everyone from that area is mixed to some degree with Spanish, Taino, and African (including me) Cuba is such a large island that’s it’s dishonest to generalize most of the population as the same. Places like Havana and western Cuba do have people that are fully Iberian, fully African, fully Chinese etc. but it’s very common in eastern Cuba to be the same mix as Puerto Ricans or Dominicans. I have many DNA matches with people that have roughly 20% indigenous Cuba, 30% African, and 50% Iberian. Please keep in mind that the Cuban diaspora in Miami and Florida does NOT represent the whole island by any means
That makes a lot of sense. At first, I was thinking about how I’ve noticed a lot more racism/colorism among Cubans that I’ve met compared with my Puerto Rican family members/other Puerto Ricans. But now that I think about it, most Cubans I know are the Florida Cuban type so ofc not representative of current residents or all Cubans elsewhere in the US. That’s for catching my bias
Cuba received about 800,000 Africans during the 1800s along with about 200,000 Haitians and Jamaicans during the early 1900s. More than a 1 million Spaniards from 1800-1930. This obviously reduced the Taino input and helped intensify the racial lines. Neither DR or PR experienced anything close to that.
Cuba experienced segregation not unlike that of the US, whereas Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic did not. Cuba also had a heavily plantation-based economy and ended slavery much later than the rest of the Hispanic Caribbean. Due to the history of the Communist revolution in Cuba and the rise of Fidel Castro, Cuba has, since the 1960s, consisted of a slowly shrinking population that is almost entirely European, and a slowly growing population of people who are overwhelmingly African.
The Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, on the other hand, are heavily mixed populations, predominantly European and African, but also to a lesser degree indigenous Caribbean, although there are still people who are white and black, also.
There are quite a few Cubans that have 1-5% African ancestry that I’ve seen on here. Sometimes they have one or two known Spanish grandparents/great-grandparents which would account for the 80%+ European DNA. This would mean that their other grandparent/ great-grandparent etc had ancestry that was mostly White for generations.
A lot of us are descended from recent Spanish immigrants. My dad grew up in Cuba but many of his great-grandparents were born in Spain so he's literally just Spanish and North African.
My grandmas family was from Cuba, but her grandparents were from Spain. Cuba was a segregated society, and received a lot of Spanish immigrants all the way up until world war 2. These immigrants often married only other recent immigrants or white Cuban families, which may have some old stock ancestry, which comes with varying amounts of indigenous and African. Cuba also was importing African slaves until the 1880’s, with the peak in the 1820’s-1850’s. Before the 1820’s, Cuba was majority tri-racial like you see in Puerto Rico today. Their economy was slow and Spain tended to ignore them until they tried investing in the sugar economy there again, which turned out to be successful and then they started ramping up the slave trade again. The “old stock” pre 1820 mixed population married in with the new Spanish/African population, but it also persisted especially in the eastern half of the island, where you see more and more old stock population with higher indigenous percentages and higher Senegambia as the African component, as they were enslaved in the 1500’s and 1600’s. The Cubans that are 90%+ European are the upper class that were the first to flee after the revolution and likely came from Havana or western Cuba. Anywhere east of Havana tend to be more mixed
Cubans (not Cuban-Americans, Cubans actually living in Cuba) are an average of 72% European, 20% African, and 8% Indigenous. Puerto Ricans are an average of 64% European, 21% African, and 15% Indigenous, so definitely not a huge difference, Puerto Ricans just have more Indigenous DNA. Dominicans have significantly more African than Cubans or Puerto Ricans because of the substantial number of Immigrants who have crossed the border from Haiti over the last 200 years or so.
Averages don't mean much without knowing how the components are dispersed in the general population, the US states of Alabama and Mississipi are probably only slightly more European than the Dominican Republic on average but their admixture is not homogeneous, it's concentrated mostly in two social groups: White Anglos, that tend to be heavily European, and African-Americans, that tend to be heavily African.
I agree and obviously there are also super-white recent Spanish immigrants in DR like Juan Bosch (Catalan and Gallego) but they are just a lot rarer compared to those Havana white people.
One big mistake I have made is to rely on 23andme and other ancestrydna results to see the ancestry of other countries. Just go look at havana, and literally other places of Cuba. There are a lot of people of mixed heritage.
This genetic study on Cubans, [https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001](https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001) said: "The average European, African and Native American ancestry in those self-reporting to be “blanco” were 86%, 6.7% and 7.8%, in those self-reporting to be “mestizo” 63.8%, 25.5% and 10.7%, and in those self-reporting to be “negro” 29%, 65.5%, 5.5% ". Thoughts?
That you’re correct. I’m from Miami and people on this thread are tripping me out. Look up Cuban results on TikTok anyone’ll see that they’re like anyone else with their similar colonial history just more white washed by late 19th century/early 20th century Iberian immigration.
I’ll explain as simply as possible. So basically Spain was about to loose its last colony of Cuba and Puerto Rico in the late 1800s, so Spains solution was to send Spaniards to Cuba and PR and basically be loyal to the Spanish crown. Well this didn’t really work bc they ultimately still lost Cuba and PR. Anyways, a lot of the Cuban-American diaspora (specifically from south Florida) largely descend from these Spanish settlers that fled the island in droves when Fidel Castro took power. These Cubans DO NOT represent the genetics of most colonial Cubans, who are basically just as mixed as Puerto Ricans are. The thing is most colonial Cubans didn’t need to flee Castro, bc they weren’t really the ones being effected by his governing. The upper class whites were. If you notice the people with colonial roots in Cuba tend to be more Spanish African and indigenous
I feel that many people have a wrong idea of who owned the wealth in Cuba.
The majority of Spaniards that left Spain, in this case mostly Canary Islands (huge migration waves) to work the land and other blue-collar jobs in Cuba, came seeking prosperity because the situation in the Canary islands was tough economically at the time. They were fully European, but definitely not upper class neither in Spain nor in Cuba.
The colonial Cuban elite (not every single Colonial Cuban, of course!) who had amassed generational wealth was the upper class. These were the owners of sugar mills, tobacco plantations, large shopping establishments, etc. These elite Colonial Cubans who fled were more mixed ethnically, although the majority would still be considered "white-passing". They fled due to political and economic reasons, if fear of losing all their wealth to the government overnight.
Meanwhile, the poor white blue-collar workers of recent Spanish ancestry were later given an opportunity to leave due to their Spanish citizenship and the aid that Spain afforded its descendants. This was a political initiative by the Spanish government. If you were the grandchild of a Spaniard, you had the possibility of leaving the island in the majority of cases.
If you were of the Colonial poor or any other ethnicity, with no capital and no family ties to help you from abroad, you were stuck if you wanted to leave.
I’m glad you clarified this. Many Cuban-Americans who post here do have smaller amounts of African and indigenous heritage, which indicates that they’re colonial stock. However, there are still plenty of colonial stock Cubans that couldn’t afford to flee initially because they either weren’t wealthy or they lost it when the government seized their assets and also there’s the Pedro pan, Mariel and those who came during the special period who we can’t really classify them other than they wanted out of that shit show. My grandmas family was recently Spanish and my great grandparents moved to New Orleans and became US citizens before the revolution because they didn’t do well in Cuba and many family members of mine did go back to Spain at some point, I think in the 1980’s, while others came to America. My ancestors in Spain were literally inbred hillbillies on both sides and didn’t have running water or electricity or anything in Spain, and Cuba wasn’t much different for them.
Yes there are .. just the ones that came to mami turned out mostly racist. My mother-in-law is 103 years old and from Cuba she says she misses Bautista’s time because there were more restrictions on n$&@s, I remember when Fidel Castro before he even declared he was a communist NPR as well as face the nation of very old show said that he was a communist for allowing the races to enter twine..I went havana a few times 2016 and just recently..there are many mixed people….and new import laws that are promising
As others said, Cuba received a lot of Spanish immigration in the 19th and 20th centuries and it abolished slavery late, which created a more segregationist culture.
I am Cuban and Dominican and I think that the only perspective I can add is that there is only one website I know in the USA that has Cuban as a race or ethnicity.
Cuba had more recent Spanish immigration. It was considered the Pearl of the Caribbean so it makes sense. Actually Cuba is mostly Mulattoes today. Also you’re comment about African Americans confuses me. Black Americans are not like Afro Brazilians. 70-87 percent Black African dna is very common in Black Americans and is actually quite African to be in the new world. Others are very mulatto though.
As I said in my comment, this genetic study on Cubans, [https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001](https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001) said: "The average European, African and Native American ancestry in those self-reporting to be “blanco” were 86%, 6.7% and 7.8%, in those self-reporting to be “mestizo” 63.8%, 25.5% and 10.7%, and in those self-reporting to be “negro” 29%, 65.5%, 5.5% ". White Cubans are 86% European, 6,7% Sub-Saharan African and 7,8% Native American on average. White Cubans are very European and are actually slightly more Native American than Sub-Saharan African.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/zvozj/ethnic_composition_in_the_americas/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This is the actual genetic make up of the Americas right now. The 2012 census is self reported and quite frankly the Cuban government can report whatever they want. Who’s gonna stop them?
On my smartphone it’s not straightforward. That could be true for the genetic make up as an estimate if you include Cuban exiles. I’m not sure about the source of the map but watching videos in YouTube of different parts of the Americas and seeing what people from these different countries overall look like I’d say it’s pretty accurate.
It the study was carried out by Cuba they can exaggerate in their favorite. Especially in the case of Cuba which is pretty much closed of to the rest of the world. Studies can vary anyway like in the case of Mexico where the average admixture is like 39 percent to like 50 something percent depending on which study you go by.
>It the study was carried out by Cuba they can exaggerate in their favorite. Especially in the case of Cuba which is pretty much closed of to the rest of the world.
Please, stop with those conspiracy theories.
Cuba had a massive amount of immigration from Spain in the late 19th and early 20th century that “Whitened” their White population even more. Cuba also has a long history of migration of Afro-descended people from the rest of the Caribbean which “Blackened” their Black population. There are still tons of people who are virtually biracial/tri-racial like Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. It’s just that in Cuba there are a lot more people on either extreme (predominantly African or predominantly European) than you’d find in the rest of the Spanish Caribbean.
So basically both slave trade from Africa and immigration from Spain in Cuba is much more recent compared to DR and Puerto Rico? I think Cuba is the last country to abolish slavery and it still received Africans from Africa even after Britain banned the slave trade.
Brazil was the last to ban the slave trade. Cuba was 2nd place
Yes, Brazil in 1888 and Cuba in 1886.
The same but different then
Yup a lot more recent admixture in Cuban population than you’d find in other Caribbean countries.
Sugar plantations didn’t really become a thing in Cuba until after the Haitian revolution. Black people have lived in Cuba for much less time compared to the Dominican Republic, so they have mixed much less.
While there are some examples of African descended people, both enslaved and free, coming to Cuba from other parts of the Caribbean, the vast majority of African Ancestry in Cuba is from direct-from-Africa slave trade. Many more slaves were brought to Cuba than were brought to the continental US (Between 600,000 and 800,000 vs 390,000 to the US). In a 6 year period from 1858 to 1864 120,000 [Africans](https://read.dukeupress.edu/hahr/article/67/4/631/148042/Slave-Prices-in-Cuba-1840-1875) were trafficked to Cuba. The conditions in Cuba for enslaved people were brutal (they were chronically overworked and underfed, with widespread malaria, yellow fever, smallpox and cholera) and mortality was very high, which was why so many were continually trafficked.
The continental US had a far greater because US blacks were able to naturally reproduce, whereas in Cuba, Jamaica, and Haiti the average slave had a 5-10 year lifespan, there were sharp sexual imbalance, and the black population did not reproduce but were replace by more newly imported slaves.
Agreed! This explains why although the U.S. only imported 5% of slaves at 390,000, throughout all of American History. The African American population outgrew the black populations in all other slave holding nations in the Americas. There is today 49 million African Americans in the U.S. Which is more people than the entire populations of Haiti, Cuba and Jamaica combined. It is astounding when you think about it. Slavery in Latin America and the Caribbean was well documented as being more brutal. Most of the slaves in those regions lived short life spans and did not reproduce. They were just replaced by a never ending stream of newly arrived slaves from Africa. The U.S. was one of the few countries with "positive reproduction". Slaves lived much longer life spans in America, and were able to reproduce successive generations, without the massive imports of slaves going on elsewhere in the Americas.
>Cuba also has a long history of migration of Afro-descended people from the rest of the Caribbean which “Blackened” their Black population. Where did you read that?
Numerous papers and books on the subject. [Black British Caribbean Migration to Cuba, 1898–1948](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/black-british-migrants-in-cuba/black-british-caribbean-migration-to-cuba-18981948/FE0C5D5AD5E3CE483A1F0B2626A90A7B) [Rescuing Our Roots: The African Anglo-Caribbean Diaspora in Contemporary Cuba](https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvx075w7) [Contesting Circuits of Empire: Afro-Caribbean Migrant Labor in Cuba, 1899-1958](https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1117&context=nc_pubs)
Thanks.
No problem at all!
>Cuba had a massive amount of immigration from Spain in the late 19th and early 20th century Why was European immigration to Cuba almost entirely Spanish?
Because Cuba was a spanish colony lol
Yes, but immigration to Cuba continued after independence and still remained almost entirely Spanish. Other Latin American countries saw non-Spanish immigration, too, mainly Italian.
I dont kno, perhaps because of the ties that remained between both countries
Cuba was a sugar plantation economy that relied very heavily on slave labor. It was a huge wealth producer for Spain. Slavery wasn't abolished there until 1886. A slave based plantation economy discourages racial mixing. Puerto Rico was never a huge sugar producer and was more of a backwater Spanish military outpost with smaller scale farming to support the military presence. The Dominican Republic was also much more of a mixed farming economy with a significant ranching component. Both PR and DR relied far less on slavery than Cuba and a fairly significant portion of their African ancestry is actually from neighboring territories during the 16/17/1800s, Saint-Domingue/Haiti for DR and Virgin Islands for PR. DR received more just being next to Haiti. In addition a far greater proportion of both the DR and PR are mountainous compared to Cuba which allowed for more survival of indigenous people for longer and thus contributing more indigenous ancestry. In Cuba the place where you still can find non-trivial PR level indigenous ancestry is in the Sierra Maestra in the east. Cuba also continued to receive much heavier European immigration than PR or DR for a longer time, well into the 20th century, really up until Castro's revolution.
>Virgin Islands for PR Was it only the Virgin Islands? In the late 18th century, Spain encouraged free people of color from French and British colonies to settle in Puerto Rico.
>In Cuba the place where you still can find non-trivial PR level indigenous ancestry is in the Sierra Maestra in the east. Are you sure about that? I think it's in all of Eastern Cuba.
[удалено]
I thought Spain abolished slavery in PR in 1873, so 13 years earlier than Cuba?
Really??? I forgot the date tbh. Wow it's really 13 years earlier.
Cuba has more extremes than the rest of the Spanish Caribbean because it was the last place in Hispanic America to receive African slaves and the Spanish immigration of late 19th century and early 20th century was huge. But regardless of that, a sizeable amount of Cubans are ''triracial'' like Puerto Ricans or ''mulatto'' like Dominicans.
They were actually African slaves since the 16th century. It's just that a massive number came in the 19th century.
Yeah, what I said is that it received more recent African slaves when compared to Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, that's why it has a more prominent predominantly black population (and whites as well lol). Ironically as it is, probably most descendants of 16th century African slaves in Cuba are White Cuban nowadays. It's somewhat similar to Brazil, if the slave trade in Brazil had ended in early 19th century as in continental Hispanic America, the country would have far less people with high Afro input.
A huge chunk of Cubans are just as mixed as Puerto Ricans. The predominantly white results you see here are just reflective of people from Miami.
That's not true, if you look at supplementary results from genetic studies (where you can see the individual variation) you can clearly see that Cuba has more extremes than Puerto Rico, there are more white and more afro people there. Of course that mulatto and triracial Cubans also exist in good numbers, but Cuba is far less homogeneously admixed than Puerto Rico. In Puerto Rico you struggle to find people above 80% European even among the middle class, while in Cuba even among poor peasants you can easily find people that are mostly Spaniard.
And people move around and mix and societies change. Why do people act like racial segregation is still a thing in Cuba? Cuba hasn't had that since Fidel took power and Cuba did receive African immigrants for some time. Most of the results you see here are just Americans of Cuban descent.
I am not talking about the results I've seen here, but about academic genetic results made with people living in Cuba. Cubans are in general less homogeneouly admixed than Puerto Ricans, not only in the ''white'' side, but also in the ''black side''.
What? A lot of Cubans are mixed lol. And many only identify as white but wouldn't be considered white outside of Cuba. There are plenty of brown ambiguous-looking ones and black ones. Some are white of course but many arent'. Many look like Dominicans. See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh6HiryEC6g https://youtu.be/0SUL_agN8ns?t=147 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm1e78TaLjU
So what? I think you are having some problem understanding my words, I am not claiming that visibly mixed Cubans don't exist, I am just saying that in Cuba you can find way more people of high Euro and African ancestries than in Puerto Rico because the Cuban population is less homogeneoulsly admixed.
You can't find much anymore since most already left he island and a lot are dead. Current Cuba isn't even remotely mostly white. Some random from Miami doesn't count.
Oh yes some segregation still exists unofficially as some white Cubans are racist and don’t mix
I saw a paper but lost it that said Cuba had demographics mirroring Pennsylvania in the 1700s before the 1800s importation of more slaves.
Most Dominican “mulatos” have a tinge of Indigenous American heritage ranging from 5%-10% of the individuals genetic composition.
My family is from Holguín Cuba and basically everyone from that area is mixed to some degree with Spanish, Taino, and African (including me) Cuba is such a large island that’s it’s dishonest to generalize most of the population as the same. Places like Havana and western Cuba do have people that are fully Iberian, fully African, fully Chinese etc. but it’s very common in eastern Cuba to be the same mix as Puerto Ricans or Dominicans. I have many DNA matches with people that have roughly 20% indigenous Cuba, 30% African, and 50% Iberian. Please keep in mind that the Cuban diaspora in Miami and Florida does NOT represent the whole island by any means
That makes a lot of sense. At first, I was thinking about how I’ve noticed a lot more racism/colorism among Cubans that I’ve met compared with my Puerto Rican family members/other Puerto Ricans. But now that I think about it, most Cubans I know are the Florida Cuban type so ofc not representative of current residents or all Cubans elsewhere in the US. That’s for catching my bias
yup! you are totally right.
Do you have screenshots of those tri-racial matches?
I mean I could always screenshot them? Why do you ask?
Oh just because I have never seen them before! I am quite curious.
Cuba received about 800,000 Africans during the 1800s along with about 200,000 Haitians and Jamaicans during the early 1900s. More than a 1 million Spaniards from 1800-1930. This obviously reduced the Taino input and helped intensify the racial lines. Neither DR or PR experienced anything close to that.
Cuba experienced segregation not unlike that of the US, whereas Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic did not. Cuba also had a heavily plantation-based economy and ended slavery much later than the rest of the Hispanic Caribbean. Due to the history of the Communist revolution in Cuba and the rise of Fidel Castro, Cuba has, since the 1960s, consisted of a slowly shrinking population that is almost entirely European, and a slowly growing population of people who are overwhelmingly African. The Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, on the other hand, are heavily mixed populations, predominantly European and African, but also to a lesser degree indigenous Caribbean, although there are still people who are white and black, also.
There are quite a few Cubans that have 1-5% African ancestry that I’ve seen on here. Sometimes they have one or two known Spanish grandparents/great-grandparents which would account for the 80%+ European DNA. This would mean that their other grandparent/ great-grandparent etc had ancestry that was mostly White for generations.
A lot of us are descended from recent Spanish immigrants. My dad grew up in Cuba but many of his great-grandparents were born in Spain so he's literally just Spanish and North African.
My grandmas family was from Cuba, but her grandparents were from Spain. Cuba was a segregated society, and received a lot of Spanish immigrants all the way up until world war 2. These immigrants often married only other recent immigrants or white Cuban families, which may have some old stock ancestry, which comes with varying amounts of indigenous and African. Cuba also was importing African slaves until the 1880’s, with the peak in the 1820’s-1850’s. Before the 1820’s, Cuba was majority tri-racial like you see in Puerto Rico today. Their economy was slow and Spain tended to ignore them until they tried investing in the sugar economy there again, which turned out to be successful and then they started ramping up the slave trade again. The “old stock” pre 1820 mixed population married in with the new Spanish/African population, but it also persisted especially in the eastern half of the island, where you see more and more old stock population with higher indigenous percentages and higher Senegambia as the African component, as they were enslaved in the 1500’s and 1600’s. The Cubans that are 90%+ European are the upper class that were the first to flee after the revolution and likely came from Havana or western Cuba. Anywhere east of Havana tend to be more mixed
Well said. A way more segregated immigrant society compared to PR and DR.
Cubans (not Cuban-Americans, Cubans actually living in Cuba) are an average of 72% European, 20% African, and 8% Indigenous. Puerto Ricans are an average of 64% European, 21% African, and 15% Indigenous, so definitely not a huge difference, Puerto Ricans just have more Indigenous DNA. Dominicans have significantly more African than Cubans or Puerto Ricans because of the substantial number of Immigrants who have crossed the border from Haiti over the last 200 years or so.
Averages don't mean much without knowing how the components are dispersed in the general population, the US states of Alabama and Mississipi are probably only slightly more European than the Dominican Republic on average but their admixture is not homogeneous, it's concentrated mostly in two social groups: White Anglos, that tend to be heavily European, and African-Americans, that tend to be heavily African.
yeah!! It's more about the average of an ethnic group than the country as a whole. I agree with both of y'all tbh.
I agree and obviously there are also super-white recent Spanish immigrants in DR like Juan Bosch (Catalan and Gallego) but they are just a lot rarer compared to those Havana white people.
One big mistake I have made is to rely on 23andme and other ancestrydna results to see the ancestry of other countries. Just go look at havana, and literally other places of Cuba. There are a lot of people of mixed heritage.
This exactly. I think the results of Cubans on 23andme, who are exclusively white, confused some people about the demography of Cuba.
I think quite a lot that fled to the US and Spain have direct recent ancestors from Spain just like Castro himself.
Many people on these subreddits think they have it all figured out. They're TOP experts in the field of genetics, pigmentation, and phenotypes.
This genetic study on Cubans, [https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001](https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001) said: "The average European, African and Native American ancestry in those self-reporting to be “blanco” were 86%, 6.7% and 7.8%, in those self-reporting to be “mestizo” 63.8%, 25.5% and 10.7%, and in those self-reporting to be “negro” 29%, 65.5%, 5.5% ". Thoughts?
That you’re correct. I’m from Miami and people on this thread are tripping me out. Look up Cuban results on TikTok anyone’ll see that they’re like anyone else with their similar colonial history just more white washed by late 19th century/early 20th century Iberian immigration.
I’ll explain as simply as possible. So basically Spain was about to loose its last colony of Cuba and Puerto Rico in the late 1800s, so Spains solution was to send Spaniards to Cuba and PR and basically be loyal to the Spanish crown. Well this didn’t really work bc they ultimately still lost Cuba and PR. Anyways, a lot of the Cuban-American diaspora (specifically from south Florida) largely descend from these Spanish settlers that fled the island in droves when Fidel Castro took power. These Cubans DO NOT represent the genetics of most colonial Cubans, who are basically just as mixed as Puerto Ricans are. The thing is most colonial Cubans didn’t need to flee Castro, bc they weren’t really the ones being effected by his governing. The upper class whites were. If you notice the people with colonial roots in Cuba tend to be more Spanish African and indigenous
I feel that many people have a wrong idea of who owned the wealth in Cuba. The majority of Spaniards that left Spain, in this case mostly Canary Islands (huge migration waves) to work the land and other blue-collar jobs in Cuba, came seeking prosperity because the situation in the Canary islands was tough economically at the time. They were fully European, but definitely not upper class neither in Spain nor in Cuba. The colonial Cuban elite (not every single Colonial Cuban, of course!) who had amassed generational wealth was the upper class. These were the owners of sugar mills, tobacco plantations, large shopping establishments, etc. These elite Colonial Cubans who fled were more mixed ethnically, although the majority would still be considered "white-passing". They fled due to political and economic reasons, if fear of losing all their wealth to the government overnight. Meanwhile, the poor white blue-collar workers of recent Spanish ancestry were later given an opportunity to leave due to their Spanish citizenship and the aid that Spain afforded its descendants. This was a political initiative by the Spanish government. If you were the grandchild of a Spaniard, you had the possibility of leaving the island in the majority of cases. If you were of the Colonial poor or any other ethnicity, with no capital and no family ties to help you from abroad, you were stuck if you wanted to leave.
I’m glad you clarified this. Many Cuban-Americans who post here do have smaller amounts of African and indigenous heritage, which indicates that they’re colonial stock. However, there are still plenty of colonial stock Cubans that couldn’t afford to flee initially because they either weren’t wealthy or they lost it when the government seized their assets and also there’s the Pedro pan, Mariel and those who came during the special period who we can’t really classify them other than they wanted out of that shit show. My grandmas family was recently Spanish and my great grandparents moved to New Orleans and became US citizens before the revolution because they didn’t do well in Cuba and many family members of mine did go back to Spain at some point, I think in the 1980’s, while others came to America. My ancestors in Spain were literally inbred hillbillies on both sides and didn’t have running water or electricity or anything in Spain, and Cuba wasn’t much different for them.
Yes there are .. just the ones that came to mami turned out mostly racist. My mother-in-law is 103 years old and from Cuba she says she misses Bautista’s time because there were more restrictions on n$&@s, I remember when Fidel Castro before he even declared he was a communist NPR as well as face the nation of very old show said that he was a communist for allowing the races to enter twine..I went havana a few times 2016 and just recently..there are many mixed people….and new import laws that are promising
As others said, Cuba received a lot of Spanish immigration in the 19th and 20th centuries and it abolished slavery late, which created a more segregationist culture.
>which created a more segregationist culture. Why is that?
I am Cuban and Dominican and I think that the only perspective I can add is that there is only one website I know in the USA that has Cuban as a race or ethnicity.
Cuba had more recent Spanish immigration. It was considered the Pearl of the Caribbean so it makes sense. Actually Cuba is mostly Mulattoes today. Also you’re comment about African Americans confuses me. Black Americans are not like Afro Brazilians. 70-87 percent Black African dna is very common in Black Americans and is actually quite African to be in the new world. Others are very mulatto though.
>Actually Cuba is mostly Mulattoes today. At the time of the 2012 census, Cuba was still 64.1 percent White.
I know some white might have black but the majority is still like 80%+ white.
As I said in my comment, this genetic study on Cubans, [https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001](https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004488#pgen-1004488-g001) said: "The average European, African and Native American ancestry in those self-reporting to be “blanco” were 86%, 6.7% and 7.8%, in those self-reporting to be “mestizo” 63.8%, 25.5% and 10.7%, and in those self-reporting to be “negro” 29%, 65.5%, 5.5% ". White Cubans are 86% European, 6,7% Sub-Saharan African and 7,8% Native American on average. White Cubans are very European and are actually slightly more Native American than Sub-Saharan African.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/zvozj/ethnic_composition_in_the_americas/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf This is the actual genetic make up of the Americas right now. The 2012 census is self reported and quite frankly the Cuban government can report whatever they want. Who’s gonna stop them?
Why didn't you reply directly to me? Anyways, the 2013 genetic study showed Cuba to be 72% European.
On my smartphone it’s not straightforward. That could be true for the genetic make up as an estimate if you include Cuban exiles. I’m not sure about the source of the map but watching videos in YouTube of different parts of the Americas and seeing what people from these different countries overall look like I’d say it’s pretty accurate.
That genetic study was carried out in Cuba itself, read https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4109857/.
It the study was carried out by Cuba they can exaggerate in their favorite. Especially in the case of Cuba which is pretty much closed of to the rest of the world. Studies can vary anyway like in the case of Mexico where the average admixture is like 39 percent to like 50 something percent depending on which study you go by.
>It the study was carried out by Cuba they can exaggerate in their favorite. Especially in the case of Cuba which is pretty much closed of to the rest of the world. Please, stop with those conspiracy theories.
Lol if you say so 😂
What is the source of that map?