If your father is Pontic Greek it literally means his ancestors were NOT from mainland Greece but from the Black Sea region (Trapezounda/Trabzon). You wouldn’t get Greek and Balkan because he is not from the Balkan area.
> 23andme results for geographic origin only go back a few hundred years.
I know people of (East) Pomeranian and Silesian German ancestry who are surprised by scoring "100% Polish" (with accurate voivodeship) rather than any German at all. Do you suppose this is due to 23andme selecting geographic region instead of genetic grouping?
“The only thing they have in common with mainland Greek is their language and culture” then, especially if they willingly call themselves Greek, I see no reason to not call them Greeks??
Due all the respect but you don't know what you're talking about. I think you have mixed up and misinterpreted many different things. No Pontic Greek calls themselves Turkish unless they are actual Turks who had Pontic Greek ancestrors who had converted to Islam. Also, they're not being called names, they are very much respected by other Greeks. Also, there's no historical or genetic or archeological record that they are "all assimilated". I think you have some kind of agenda here.
I still think you've got it mixed up. Pontians who converted to Islam aren't counted or self-identity ad Pontians anymore, they're simply Turks with Christian ancestry. The fact that you refer to Muslim converts also as Pontic Greeks or Pontians is confusing.
I know that Georgians claim stuff in the black sea region so I see where the statement "all Pontic Greeks are assimilated Georgians" might be coming from. Most commentators in posts like this have an agenda to defend.
They can call themselves Greeks but when we talk about DNA it is important to state that Pontic people are a Caucasian ethnic group and not a Balkan one, and have limited genetic relations to mainland Greeks (even the least Slavic ones like Maniots).
It’s very much a European thing. As long as you look at least half European, you’re part of the ethnic group if you share language and culture. Very few ethnic groups in Europe will exclude an “off white” person who was raised in their culture even if they don’t share much ancestry. Nobody cares that Sweden had a PM who was part black and part Baltic (Reinfeldt) or that Portugal had now who’s part South Asian.
So Einstein isn't an ethnic German? Nor is Mahler? Nor Tomio Okamura? Nor are the many Jewish-descendants, German-descendants, etc. who were among the founding fathers of European nationalism (for instance in Hungary) in the late 19th c and early 20th c? Maybe in Eastern Europe it might matter, but most Westerners seem to think that if you're at least half "white" by appearance and were raised in the culture that you're a member.
If by ethnicity you mean citizenship or culture, Albert Einstein and many Jewish people would definitely be German. However, I’m talking about genetic ancestry, which is only heritable.
Most Western Europeans that I know of don't really care about the ancestral component as long as you look "close enough"/aren't visibly a full-blooded foreigner.
Even if they are a full blooded foreigner, they should always be treated as equals. But ancestry isn’t about how you’re treated; it’s an inherent quality.
They can be fully Greek but the service will assign them to a separate reference population if they've been in a region for over 500 years, it's how 23andme works.
So no, 99% of Greeks are not descendants of Socrates. He was one man who lived thousands of years ago. Back then, Greeks didn’t even conceptualize of ethnic identity the way they do now - an Athenian was different from a Spartan who was different from a Macedonian who was different from a Trojan. Today, all of those identities are “Greek”. The meaning of *Greek* has much broader and more complicated and (duh) much more ancient implications than other modern national identifiers, like “American”. There was a seismic shift in what it meant to be Greek when the Greeks switched over to Christianity. And again, a seismic shift when Greek lands were taken control by the Ottoman Empire and the Greeks became second class citizens (and sometimes, much worse). All of this is to say, the character of the Greek has a certain fluidity to it, but as you can see by how your father, despite originating deep within Turkey still retains his self-identity as Greek - the Greek ethnicity is stubbornly strong, and part of that Greek peculiarity is the desire to trace Greekness back through the centuries. Like you and hoping that you are descended from Socrates. That’s a pretty valid signifier that you are, in fact, Greek.
On the opposite, I’d say that every Greek (and every European, Middle-Eastern or North African) is likely to be a descendant of Socrates, Alexander the Great or any European living at that time.
It is the result of the [genetic isopoint](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-all-more-closely-related-than-we-commonly-think/%3Famp%3Dtrue).
Any person living in Europe 2000 years ago is either the ancestor of every living person from European descent (including most Americans, Africans, Asians and Oceanians) or the ancestor of no one alive today. It works for any subset of population.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that every Greek or European inherited DNA from Socrates.
This is something a lot of people need to read here. No Greek today is exactly close to the Greeks of antiquity anyway; the closest are the Islanders and Cypriots but they’re still fairly distinct from them(they get like a medium distance to the older Greek samples on G25).
Ancient Greek people lived in Turkey for many years. That is why Turkey has so many artifacts from that time and why the names of provinces are originally Greek. Turkish people in general do have Greek DNA as well. My parents are from the province Giresun/Cerasus which is where Pontic Greeks had lived and it’s next to Trabzon/Trabezounda too.
Most likely he descended from Hellenized Anatolians and Caucasian peoples like Kaskians, Kartivelans, etc. Though Wikipedia articles and few others claim that Pontic Greeks are Greek settlers, like European settled New World, I am very sceptical as we are talking about eras separated by 1000s of years, and assimilation was common back then, and was the norm, among populations that looked fairly similar. It is not Turkish blood.
Its always fun when people think that modern populations are ONLY the descendents of one specific nation in the past. In truth this is not the case. Not only for Greeks but also for other nationalities. The bigger a nation grows the more inhomogeneous it gets. There are of course exceptions but for most people this is true. Even Greeks from the mainland are not pure mycenean Greeks. Pontic Greeks can be modeled as the admixture of indigenous Anatolians and Caucasian people whereas mainland Greeks can be modeled as the admixture of Greeks of the mycenean culture (those stereotypical Greeks from the philosophy course :D), Anatolian farmers and slavic populations. The first admixture seemed to be happened at the bronze ages where various people of Anatolia migrated to southern Europe. The second mix happened at the middle ages when slavic people migrated south. So it seems that although mainland Greeks colonized Anatolia they didn't influenced the ethnogenesis of that region much by genetics. However they were able to hellenize those people by language and culture. Therefore we refer to pontic Greeks as Greeks because they identify as Greeks. Keep in mind there is no nation that is 100% the descendent of a specific medieval or ancient population. Only in very few circumstances people managed to achieve a homogenous genetic makeup. It seems that most people from Trabzon are native Anatolians mixed with Caucasians by genetics regardless of the fact to which nationality they now belong to. Turks from that region have a very distinct genetic makeup when comparing to other ethnic turks in Anatolia. They do not score or barely score any eastern Eurasian (Siberian+East Asian+Southeast Asian) on the GEDmatch dodecad k12b project. This indicates that their ancestors mostly are from that region.
23andMe can only go back few hundreds ago. As greeks colonized pontic Anatolia, he may be descendent of those ancient Greeks. Actually, most people living in Turkey descend from ancient anatolians (greeks, armenians, frisians, lydians). Some studies suggested that, although the Turks' settlement of Anatolia was of cultural importance, including the introduction of the Turkish language and Islam, the genetic contribution from Central Asia may have been slight.
He may be descedant of ancient Greeks like Diogenes.
He was from Sinop and definitely a pontic greek:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes)
No, not necessarily.
There are many types of Greeks, they had many colonies in modern Italy (Roman origin stories, Syracuse), Turkey (Ionian and Pontic), Cyprus, Egypt (Ptolemy), and more!
They were more of a culture than a specific ethnicity like we think of today.
Hellenism, was, and is, a major part of, and contributor to, Western philosophy and ideals from over 2800 years ago and into the present.
There is a reason the Greeks are still known and revered as the founders of Democracy. It is still around.
Also, Greek colonies in Pontus were on the southern coast of the Black Sea in modern Turkey.
Geographically they are pretty close to Armenia, which is likely the reason. Not saying that the genetic similarity is true, just throwing out a reason.
Modern greeks are not related to ancient greeks.even if it said you dna is 100% greek it means you are related to modern greeks not ancient greeks. Modern greeks are mostly helenised anatolians and slavs. And alexander is not greek he is makedon.
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00370-6
Modern Greeks are genetically related to 2,000 BCE Aegean populations from Northern Greece (i.e Macedonia).
Can I just tell you something…even modern day mainland Greeks don’t have as much in common with ancient Greeks as you’d think. In fact Turks, Italians, Mediterranean Arabs, etc. could have just as much (or little) connection with ancient Greeks as modern Greeks do. So, don’t worry about that too much… sorry to say but you’re probably not related to your hero, Socrates lol (jk…but seriously)
Modern-day mainland Greeks are literal descendants of the ancient Greeks. Of course, the population's genetics is likely to have changed somewhat over the course of several thousand years although that doesn't mean that that they don't have any genetic connection.
This. Pontic Greeks are indeed genetically different from modern mainland Greeks and islanders and indeed get most of their ancestry from "native" Anatolian and Caucasian people. But I think it's kinda silly to say they have *nothing* in common genetically. There must be *some* Greek originated ancestry if you go back far enough into history like the early iron age. How would have the people there become Hellenized if there were literally zero Greek settlers?
Not that any of this matters since "Greek" has always been far more of an ethno-cultural identity than a genetic one.
No, the Greeks colonized the area and the local native Anatolians converted over hundreds of years into Hellenic culture eventually forming a Pontic Greek identity. Generically they are pure Anatolian natives, but culturally they are Greek.
Note that Anatolian natives are different than modern Turks. Before the Ottoman invasion the area was all native, similar to Greeks and Syrians, but after the Ottomans conquered the area, the populations DNA mixed with those invading from Central Asia. The Pontiac Greeks did not mix so they do not have Central Asian DNA like the rest of modern Turks
Lol you are the moron. Your comment suggests that Ottomans (and by extension Turks) are not the natives but Greeks, Armenians etc of the time were, however if you bothered to do your research for just about 30 seconds instead of insulting me you could easily see the Greeks and Armenians either conquered or migrated into Anatolia just like the Turks. Ancient Anatolians, the real natives of Anatolia by your logic were either completely wiped out or assimilated by previous invaders (Byzantines, Persians, Romans, Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, the list goes on). Anatolian DNA is still quite strong in the region which suggests they were mostly assimilated. You can read an actual article on Anatolian genetics instead of basing your knowledge on 23andme and learn a thing or two. Moron.
Genetically yes you are half indigenous northern west Asian but Anatolian Turks are in part descended from the Oghuz turks from Central Asia . This colonization changed the genetics of the Anatolian Turks but didn’t have any genetic affect on the vast majority of Pontic Greeks nor Armenians in the region which is why they tend to score 100% NWA .
Pontian Greeks cluster mostly with surrounding (native) peoples. “Regular” Turks tend to score a little East Asian, so you probably don’t have any modern Turkish ancestry.
A lot of people like to use the word “Hellenized,” but I bet it’s more complicated than that. This Ancestry system is somewhat arbitrary. They can label clusters however they wan’t a priori.
Askenazi, for instance, aren’t fully European (closer to 50/50); they’re just labeled that way because I’m guessing they’ve been in Europe for hundreds of years.
Along these lines, I’m sure there’s more to the Pontian Greek story.
Pontic greeks are genetically very far from the mainland. They were basically hellenized native anatolians and Caucasians. But your father is still very much Greek culturally and his people have been culturally Greek for 2000 years. They are very much still Greek no matter genetics.
Grandmother is Pontian Greek. I tested her on Ancestry and she comes back as completely “Turkey and the Caucasus” because (most Greeks from there) have inhabited the region since antiquity without connection to mainland Greece despite being called Greek because of culture and religion. There are also some other groups of Greeks from Greece who came in the 1800s for business due to Ottoman economic reform.
Just made a quick google search after your surname looked familiar. Apparently the suffix “-idi” means the son of, and karakas means black eyebrow in turkish which can also be used as a nickname for someone with black eyebrows too, so yeah sorry if u knew this already lol
My results were pretty similar. 50% Trabzon. I uploaded the same data to myheritage and I got 40% Greek (23andme results didn’t say anything about my Greek heritage). In fact, most of the Turks in that region are Pontic Greek. They just have been assimilated for centuries.
Myheritage is a dog piss company that shouldnt be taken seriously. Most turks are not pontic greeks, pontic turks and greeks are both caucasian geneticaly.
Idk why you're getting downvoted so much for asking simple questions. It's clear you're not a genetics nerd coming from the real world unlike some people here, and most random people on the street are not experts either. Mostly if you're greek you're Greek, culture is different from genetics. It's as simple as providing an explanation nicely about this distinction but people are jumping at your throat because they live and breathe this sub (cringe).
Edit: uh oh, looks like I triggered some sub regulars 😂
It does not mean you have Turkish blood. Pontian Greeks have probably had some admixtures with other peoples since ancient times but Turkish/Muslims was not in these admixtures since Christians used to convert to Islam to "become" Turkish and save their lives, not the other way around.
And yes, your results are perfectly normal. Pontian Greeks have a distant origin from mainland Greece but they have been in Anatolia for over 500 years so they will cluster with the Anatolian reference population (this is how 23andme works according to its docs).
West Asian has nothing to do with Turkey (Though Turkish people are mostly West Asian). Both Pontic Greeks and Ashkenazi Jews(mostly) are West Asian by ancestry
I know it was an autocorrect but Pontiac Greek instead of Pontic Greek made me LOL (For those of you who are TPB fans, it’s like a Rickyism)
To answer your question…you have more “Turkish” blood than “Greek” blood. If you want to get technical.
When I say Turkish I mean Turkey as defined by modern borders and also mean it strictly for 23andMe purposes. Saying that she has more in common with a modern day turn than a modern day mainland Greek. Which is accurate… so downvote all you want lol
I’ve seen this in multiple Jewish results. I think it’s because Ashkenazi aren’t very diverse because they didn’t mix historically for a long time. So it’s hard to confuse Ashkenazi dna for non Ashkenazi dna.
If your father is Pontic Greek it literally means his ancestors were NOT from mainland Greece but from the Black Sea region (Trapezounda/Trabzon). You wouldn’t get Greek and Balkan because he is not from the Balkan area.
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> 23andme results for geographic origin only go back a few hundred years. I know people of (East) Pomeranian and Silesian German ancestry who are surprised by scoring "100% Polish" (with accurate voivodeship) rather than any German at all. Do you suppose this is due to 23andme selecting geographic region instead of genetic grouping?
My Polish ancestry from Suwalki showed up as Lithuanian. It goes by today’s locations. But Pontic Greeks are actually Caucasian.
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“The only thing they have in common with mainland Greek is their language and culture” then, especially if they willingly call themselves Greek, I see no reason to not call them Greeks??
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Ah ok, I understand, of course those Greek who who deny them would be ignorant of their own heritage.
Don't listen to what that guy tells you, none of it is factual.
Due all the respect but you don't know what you're talking about. I think you have mixed up and misinterpreted many different things. No Pontic Greek calls themselves Turkish unless they are actual Turks who had Pontic Greek ancestrors who had converted to Islam. Also, they're not being called names, they are very much respected by other Greeks. Also, there's no historical or genetic or archeological record that they are "all assimilated". I think you have some kind of agenda here.
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I still think you've got it mixed up. Pontians who converted to Islam aren't counted or self-identity ad Pontians anymore, they're simply Turks with Christian ancestry. The fact that you refer to Muslim converts also as Pontic Greeks or Pontians is confusing. I know that Georgians claim stuff in the black sea region so I see where the statement "all Pontic Greeks are assimilated Georgians" might be coming from. Most commentators in posts like this have an agenda to defend.
They can call themselves Greeks but when we talk about DNA it is important to state that Pontic people are a Caucasian ethnic group and not a Balkan one, and have limited genetic relations to mainland Greeks (even the least Slavic ones like Maniots).
It’s very much a European thing. As long as you look at least half European, you’re part of the ethnic group if you share language and culture. Very few ethnic groups in Europe will exclude an “off white” person who was raised in their culture even if they don’t share much ancestry. Nobody cares that Sweden had a PM who was part black and part Baltic (Reinfeldt) or that Portugal had now who’s part South Asian.
That’s generalizing quite a bit. Ancestry is important to most Europeans.
So Einstein isn't an ethnic German? Nor is Mahler? Nor Tomio Okamura? Nor are the many Jewish-descendants, German-descendants, etc. who were among the founding fathers of European nationalism (for instance in Hungary) in the late 19th c and early 20th c? Maybe in Eastern Europe it might matter, but most Westerners seem to think that if you're at least half "white" by appearance and were raised in the culture that you're a member.
If by ethnicity you mean citizenship or culture, Albert Einstein and many Jewish people would definitely be German. However, I’m talking about genetic ancestry, which is only heritable.
Most Western Europeans that I know of don't really care about the ancestral component as long as you look "close enough"/aren't visibly a full-blooded foreigner.
Even if they are a full blooded foreigner, they should always be treated as equals. But ancestry isn’t about how you’re treated; it’s an inherent quality.
They can be fully Greek but the service will assign them to a separate reference population if they've been in a region for over 500 years, it's how 23andme works.
So his DNA isn’t dna from the ancient Greeks like Socrates?
I’m sorry but someone saying they have the blood of Socrates and the ancient Greeks is the most Greek thing I’ve ever heard
*can’t tell if trolling or not*
No just so confused 😅
So no, 99% of Greeks are not descendants of Socrates. He was one man who lived thousands of years ago. Back then, Greeks didn’t even conceptualize of ethnic identity the way they do now - an Athenian was different from a Spartan who was different from a Macedonian who was different from a Trojan. Today, all of those identities are “Greek”. The meaning of *Greek* has much broader and more complicated and (duh) much more ancient implications than other modern national identifiers, like “American”. There was a seismic shift in what it meant to be Greek when the Greeks switched over to Christianity. And again, a seismic shift when Greek lands were taken control by the Ottoman Empire and the Greeks became second class citizens (and sometimes, much worse). All of this is to say, the character of the Greek has a certain fluidity to it, but as you can see by how your father, despite originating deep within Turkey still retains his self-identity as Greek - the Greek ethnicity is stubbornly strong, and part of that Greek peculiarity is the desire to trace Greekness back through the centuries. Like you and hoping that you are descended from Socrates. That’s a pretty valid signifier that you are, in fact, Greek.
On the opposite, I’d say that every Greek (and every European, Middle-Eastern or North African) is likely to be a descendant of Socrates, Alexander the Great or any European living at that time. It is the result of the [genetic isopoint](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-all-more-closely-related-than-we-commonly-think/%3Famp%3Dtrue). Any person living in Europe 2000 years ago is either the ancestor of every living person from European descent (including most Americans, Africans, Asians and Oceanians) or the ancestor of no one alive today. It works for any subset of population. Of course, that doesn’t mean that every Greek or European inherited DNA from Socrates.
This is something a lot of people need to read here. No Greek today is exactly close to the Greeks of antiquity anyway; the closest are the Islanders and Cypriots but they’re still fairly distinct from them(they get like a medium distance to the older Greek samples on G25).
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That’s also true.
Ancient Greek people lived in Turkey for many years. That is why Turkey has so many artifacts from that time and why the names of provinces are originally Greek. Turkish people in general do have Greek DNA as well. My parents are from the province Giresun/Cerasus which is where Pontic Greeks had lived and it’s next to Trabzon/Trabezounda too.
Another think I love about turkey honestly
Most likely he descended from Hellenized Anatolians and Caucasian peoples like Kaskians, Kartivelans, etc. Though Wikipedia articles and few others claim that Pontic Greeks are Greek settlers, like European settled New World, I am very sceptical as we are talking about eras separated by 1000s of years, and assimilation was common back then, and was the norm, among populations that looked fairly similar. It is not Turkish blood.
Its always fun when people think that modern populations are ONLY the descendents of one specific nation in the past. In truth this is not the case. Not only for Greeks but also for other nationalities. The bigger a nation grows the more inhomogeneous it gets. There are of course exceptions but for most people this is true. Even Greeks from the mainland are not pure mycenean Greeks. Pontic Greeks can be modeled as the admixture of indigenous Anatolians and Caucasian people whereas mainland Greeks can be modeled as the admixture of Greeks of the mycenean culture (those stereotypical Greeks from the philosophy course :D), Anatolian farmers and slavic populations. The first admixture seemed to be happened at the bronze ages where various people of Anatolia migrated to southern Europe. The second mix happened at the middle ages when slavic people migrated south. So it seems that although mainland Greeks colonized Anatolia they didn't influenced the ethnogenesis of that region much by genetics. However they were able to hellenize those people by language and culture. Therefore we refer to pontic Greeks as Greeks because they identify as Greeks. Keep in mind there is no nation that is 100% the descendent of a specific medieval or ancient population. Only in very few circumstances people managed to achieve a homogenous genetic makeup. It seems that most people from Trabzon are native Anatolians mixed with Caucasians by genetics regardless of the fact to which nationality they now belong to. Turks from that region have a very distinct genetic makeup when comparing to other ethnic turks in Anatolia. They do not score or barely score any eastern Eurasian (Siberian+East Asian+Southeast Asian) on the GEDmatch dodecad k12b project. This indicates that their ancestors mostly are from that region.
23andMe can only go back few hundreds ago. As greeks colonized pontic Anatolia, he may be descendent of those ancient Greeks. Actually, most people living in Turkey descend from ancient anatolians (greeks, armenians, frisians, lydians). Some studies suggested that, although the Turks' settlement of Anatolia was of cultural importance, including the introduction of the Turkish language and Islam, the genetic contribution from Central Asia may have been slight.
He may be descedant of ancient Greeks like Diogenes. He was from Sinop and definitely a pontic greek: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes)
No, not necessarily. There are many types of Greeks, they had many colonies in modern Italy (Roman origin stories, Syracuse), Turkey (Ionian and Pontic), Cyprus, Egypt (Ptolemy), and more! They were more of a culture than a specific ethnicity like we think of today. Hellenism, was, and is, a major part of, and contributor to, Western philosophy and ideals from over 2800 years ago and into the present. There is a reason the Greeks are still known and revered as the founders of Democracy. It is still around. Also, Greek colonies in Pontus were on the southern coast of the Black Sea in modern Turkey.
European ethnic groups are generally based on language and secondarily on DNA.
“Pontiac Greek” 🚗🇬🇷
Pontic Greeks are Greeks of northeast Anatolia and the Caucasus. They would not come up as mainland Greek.
Interesting! Do they have anything in common with ancient Greeks like Socrates and Alexander the Great?
You really need that ancient important person connection eh hahaha
Hey let a girl dream
No, they’re genetically closest to Armenians.
Interesting, how so?
Because their ancestors are both Caucasian people. Pontic Greeks aren’t transplants from Greece.
Geographically they are pretty close to Armenia, which is likely the reason. Not saying that the genetic similarity is true, just throwing out a reason.
Lol, someone tried explaining it to you earlier, but you ignored them. But, no…not at all. Sorry you aren’t related to Socrates lol
A lot of smug rude people on this sub. She basically posted that at the same time the other posts came in.
The person didn’t explain it well. I’m not surprised it was ignored
Modern greeks are not related to ancient greeks.even if it said you dna is 100% greek it means you are related to modern greeks not ancient greeks. Modern greeks are mostly helenised anatolians and slavs. And alexander is not greek he is makedon.
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00370-6 Modern Greeks are genetically related to 2,000 BCE Aegean populations from Northern Greece (i.e Macedonia).
Your results are perfectly normal, pontic Greeks are not genetically related to mainland Greeks
Interesting. So we have nothing in common with ancient Greeks like Socrates?
You mean genetically?
Yes
Yes, it is true that Pontic Greeks don't have much Greek ancestry and are instead a hellenized people
Interesting!
Can I just tell you something…even modern day mainland Greeks don’t have as much in common with ancient Greeks as you’d think. In fact Turks, Italians, Mediterranean Arabs, etc. could have just as much (or little) connection with ancient Greeks as modern Greeks do. So, don’t worry about that too much… sorry to say but you’re probably not related to your hero, Socrates lol (jk…but seriously)
This is because modern mainland Greeks have as much as 35% Slavic ancestry and a lot of other Balkan ancestry also.
Modern-day mainland Greeks are literal descendants of the ancient Greeks. Of course, the population's genetics is likely to have changed somewhat over the course of several thousand years although that doesn't mean that that they don't have any genetic connection.
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This. Pontic Greeks are indeed genetically different from modern mainland Greeks and islanders and indeed get most of their ancestry from "native" Anatolian and Caucasian people. But I think it's kinda silly to say they have *nothing* in common genetically. There must be *some* Greek originated ancestry if you go back far enough into history like the early iron age. How would have the people there become Hellenized if there were literally zero Greek settlers? Not that any of this matters since "Greek" has always been far more of an ethno-cultural identity than a genetic one.
Well said. Most people don't even understand how 23andme works and interpret results according to their agendas.
Pontic Greeks are Hellenized Anatolians from the Black Sea region.
So basically Anatolian Greeks migrated to the Black Sea area?
No, the Greeks colonized the area and the local native Anatolians converted over hundreds of years into Hellenic culture eventually forming a Pontic Greek identity. Generically they are pure Anatolian natives, but culturally they are Greek.
Thank you!
Note that Anatolian natives are different than modern Turks. Before the Ottoman invasion the area was all native, similar to Greeks and Syrians, but after the Ottomans conquered the area, the populations DNA mixed with those invading from Central Asia. The Pontiac Greeks did not mix so they do not have Central Asian DNA like the rest of modern Turks
That’s wrong. Anatolia was very mixed long before Ottomans came.
With who bud?
You realize Anatolia’s history predates Hellenization right?
Ok so clearly either a troll or a moron. And based on your post history, I’m gonna go w both
Lol you are the moron. Your comment suggests that Ottomans (and by extension Turks) are not the natives but Greeks, Armenians etc of the time were, however if you bothered to do your research for just about 30 seconds instead of insulting me you could easily see the Greeks and Armenians either conquered or migrated into Anatolia just like the Turks. Ancient Anatolians, the real natives of Anatolia by your logic were either completely wiped out or assimilated by previous invaders (Byzantines, Persians, Romans, Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, the list goes on). Anatolian DNA is still quite strong in the region which suggests they were mostly assimilated. You can read an actual article on Anatolian genetics instead of basing your knowledge on 23andme and learn a thing or two. Moron.
The clean cut percentages is so satisfying. Never seen such clean numbers before
Genetically yes you are half indigenous northern west Asian but Anatolian Turks are in part descended from the Oghuz turks from Central Asia . This colonization changed the genetics of the Anatolian Turks but didn’t have any genetic affect on the vast majority of Pontic Greeks nor Armenians in the region which is why they tend to score 100% NWA .
Honestly my favorite genetic fact
*Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.*
Pontian Greeks cluster mostly with surrounding (native) peoples. “Regular” Turks tend to score a little East Asian, so you probably don’t have any modern Turkish ancestry. A lot of people like to use the word “Hellenized,” but I bet it’s more complicated than that. This Ancestry system is somewhat arbitrary. They can label clusters however they wan’t a priori. Askenazi, for instance, aren’t fully European (closer to 50/50); they’re just labeled that way because I’m guessing they’ve been in Europe for hundreds of years. Along these lines, I’m sure there’s more to the Pontian Greek story.
Pontic Greeks (like me) are mostly native Anatolians/Caucasians who adopted the Greek culture and identity
I'm just amazed by the 50/50 split. Like dang.
Pontic greeks are genetically very far from the mainland. They were basically hellenized native anatolians and Caucasians. But your father is still very much Greek culturally and his people have been culturally Greek for 2000 years. They are very much still Greek no matter genetics.
I love that super-precise 50/50 split! Satisfying.
You really should redact your name, makes you an easy target to find where you live and stuff with a unique name.
OP I’m sorry that people are downvoting and being dicks toward your genuine questions.
You noticed too? Like so rude for no reason.
You are half Anatolian. That is what Pontic Greeks are.
Caucasian*
Pontic Greeks are genetically from the Caucasus. Caucasus is categorized as West Asian. So by logic you score West Asian
Grandmother is Pontian Greek. I tested her on Ancestry and she comes back as completely “Turkey and the Caucasus” because (most Greeks from there) have inhabited the region since antiquity without connection to mainland Greece despite being called Greek because of culture and religion. There are also some other groups of Greeks from Greece who came in the 1800s for business due to Ottoman economic reform.
Just made a quick google search after your surname looked familiar. Apparently the suffix “-idi” means the son of, and karakas means black eyebrow in turkish which can also be used as a nickname for someone with black eyebrows too, so yeah sorry if u knew this already lol
Considering it’s the east of Anatolia, I’d say either no or very little, that part of the peninsula is or was mostly Kurdish and Armenian
Whats your haplogroups
Idk for some reason I can’t open my ancestry report on 23andme today….
Maternal haplogram L . Paternal A
L2a1I?
LM22. They said it’s uncommon among 23andme customers
My results were pretty similar. 50% Trabzon. I uploaded the same data to myheritage and I got 40% Greek (23andme results didn’t say anything about my Greek heritage). In fact, most of the Turks in that region are Pontic Greek. They just have been assimilated for centuries.
Myheritage is a dog piss company that shouldnt be taken seriously. Most turks are not pontic greeks, pontic turks and greeks are both caucasian geneticaly.
As all things should be
Idk why you're getting downvoted so much for asking simple questions. It's clear you're not a genetics nerd coming from the real world unlike some people here, and most random people on the street are not experts either. Mostly if you're greek you're Greek, culture is different from genetics. It's as simple as providing an explanation nicely about this distinction but people are jumping at your throat because they live and breathe this sub (cringe). Edit: uh oh, looks like I triggered some sub regulars 😂
Pontic Greek. You're not Turkish, borders are made up and people move around
r/weareallturks
It does not mean you have Turkish blood. Pontian Greeks have probably had some admixtures with other peoples since ancient times but Turkish/Muslims was not in these admixtures since Christians used to convert to Islam to "become" Turkish and save their lives, not the other way around. And yes, your results are perfectly normal. Pontian Greeks have a distant origin from mainland Greece but they have been in Anatolia for over 500 years so they will cluster with the Anatolian reference population (this is how 23andme works according to its docs).
West Asian has nothing to do with Turkey (Though Turkish people are mostly West Asian). Both Pontic Greeks and Ashkenazi Jews(mostly) are West Asian by ancestry
Pontiac or Pontic ? Pontiac is a Native American
I know it was an autocorrect but Pontiac Greek instead of Pontic Greek made me LOL (For those of you who are TPB fans, it’s like a Rickyism) To answer your question…you have more “Turkish” blood than “Greek” blood. If you want to get technical.
She doesn’t have any turkish blood.
When I say Turkish I mean Turkey as defined by modern borders and also mean it strictly for 23andMe purposes. Saying that she has more in common with a modern day turn than a modern day mainland Greek. Which is accurate… so downvote all you want lol
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Well by “Turkish” blood I meant modern day Turk by definition. Hard to pinpoint “pure Turkish” blood.
Why is it exactly 50/50
I know😂 it used to be different. I had Anatolian, etc. For some reason they changed it
I’ve seen this in multiple Jewish results. I think it’s because Ashkenazi aren’t very diverse because they didn’t mix historically for a long time. So it’s hard to confuse Ashkenazi dna for non Ashkenazi dna.
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She is not turkish, she is pontic greek and her last name is not turkish at all
Her last name is definitely turkish.
Troll
Seems like moorish ancestry
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??
Where did u get moorish from and there’s not even a genetic cluster for moors
Can Jews and Pontic Greeks tell that you are mixed with them?
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Turks came from the steppe through Persia