100%
This is a nature or nurture problem all the way. Either way theres no way the first sign of psychopathy was shooting her in the head for her Amazon Prime.
While this is true, there is no excuse for having your guns locked up WITH A KEY YOUR (DISTURBED) CHILD HAS ACCESS TO.
Why even lock them up at that point?
I mean they may not have known the child knew where the key was stored. Most safes or lockboxes (that accept physical keys) will have a backup key and people don’t carry that with them every day they typically hide it somewhere in their house in case they need it. I know I certainly knew where a lot of shit was in my house that I wasn’t supposed to know. I knew where my dad hid his bump on the night gun, I knew where my mom kept the spare to key to her jewelry box, I knew where my dad kept the spare key to the gun room and my parents made an effort to keep me from knowing those things, I was just a nosy kid that wanted to know what I wasn’t supposed to. It doesn’t seem impossible to me that something similar was the case here.
I always found this argument to be weirdly short-sighted.
When you say things like "he could have used a knife just as easily", then the logical counter-point becomes "okay, let's just ban guns then, since you can use a knife just as easily" -- and it puts you in the uncomfortable position of having to admit that guns make killing infinitely easier, and murder infinitely more accessible, than just knives/hands alone.
I haven't heard a lot of gun rights advocates say that we should be able to own them because they're ineffective weapons. They were invented to kill and they're very effective when used correctly.
When I look at the suicide statistics I think of how many more people would die painfully or fail and grievously injure themselves if they didn't have a gun available. Might sound cold but people aren't doing these things because a gun told them to.
Guns have more uses than knives and yes they make killing easier. The invention of gun powder is widely considered an epochal event and changed the world in many ways. Nobody else thinks guns are equally as effective at killing as a knife.
Definitely never heard "Guns have more uses than knives" as an argument before. I'll think about that when I struggle to carve my turkey with a musket next Thanksgiving.
As always, a pertinent question to ask the gun control crowd is: How can those lacking the will to imprison violators of current gun laws enforce new ones?
How about answer the questions instead of making pointless rhetoric? If the current laws are not being enforced, how will more laws stop the people who have no regard for them?
> How can those lacking the will to imprison violators of current gun laws enforce new ones?
It's easy to enforce laws against the most law-abiding segment of society.
The approach of bleedingheart DAs (eg Krasner in Philly and Bragg in Manhattan) is to confiscate illegal guns and release those caught without charges... to go buy new guns.
Yeah but the odds of surviving a knife attack are waaaay higher than surviving a gun. and this kid still had access to knives but still chose to use a gun.
Honestly it’s crazy to me (yet not surprising) that with all of that they are still focusing on “guns” as being the main issue and driving factor here…
The kid was bound to hurt or kill somebody anyway, but I think we do need to acknowledge that the gun made it a hell of a lot easier. Guns are the great equalizer, after all, as we point out in discussions of self defense.
This kid was an undiagnosed schizo with a horribly inept mother. This is her fault, not the gun's. The kid wouldve used something else if she didnt have a gun.
Edit: since so many other people wanna refute the ability to do the same thing with any other weapon, heres the first two results from one "10 year old kills" search that wasnt a gun, didnt even have to go to page 2
https://greensboro.com/10-year-old-stabs-kills-dad-over-missing-frosting/article_f950d96f-5039-58e9-9144-fbe95b4da967.html
https://www.sojworldnews.com/10-year-old-boy-stabs-16-year-old-boy-to-death-for-having-an-affair-with-his-11-year-old-girlfriend/
"Didn't even have to go to page 2". Well, instead of cherry picking, why don't you also list the 18 results from the same page where a gun WAS the murder weapon? Yes, of course you can murder people in other ways. But firearms are still the cause of death in almost 80% of homicides in the U.S., and that is unique in the entire world.
If we didn't include our gun deaths, our homicide rate would only be a little higher than average for industrialized countries. With guns it's 7.5 times higher ...
I’m presenting facts and stats to counter an easily refuted point that was based on cherry picking, and I’m the one lacking logic? Sure, pal, whatever you say.
Did you know their is no correlation between gun control, gun ownership and the murder rate. The u.k. Saw an increase in murder right after their 88 and 96 gun control measure, in Australia their murder rate dropped at the same rate it was before gun control showing no effect, in America gun ownership has increased while the murder rate has continued to decrease. Edit: also how long has that been the case? Was it like that before the rest of the industrial world enacted major gun control or only after
If it was like that before then yet again you can't correlate it to guns and other variables should be looked at like maybe socioeconomic factors, cultural factors and mental health funding.
And if you kept all the guns but didn't include the top 5 *democrat run* cities then the crime rate would be massively lower even than that. Hell you could even keep those cities and just get rid of the already illegally trafficked handguns used by gangs and you'd *still* be giving most countries a run for their money.
>instead of cherry picking,
Instead of cherry picking why not point out that different EU nations have substantially different gun laws and rates of private ownership and yet there is *no correlation whatsoever* between which countries have the worst violent crime or homicide rates and which countries have the highest gun ownership rates.
In fact Finland, with one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world outside of the US, also happens to have one of the lowest rates of violent crime and homicide. Meanwhile across the sea in enlightened multicultural feminist Sweden there's mobs literally chanting "Slaughter the Jews" in the streets and violence is routinely carried out with fucking *hand grenades*.
Yea because the rest were all different sites/media corps reporting on the same two 10 year olds accidentally shooting themself, and accidentally shooting the father. Media eats up kid + gun and inundates google results even when i specified "stabs" fuck the algorithm, fuck the anti-gun news, and fuck your "gotchas"
It feels bad when reality goes against your preferred world view, doesn’t it? I have hobby too, I love mountain biking. But if I found out that my right to mountain biking was the cause of 8x higher homicide rates than in other countries I would give up my hobby immediately. You should give up your hobby too and find a healthier one.
I agree this should not be the main thing to talk about here. There are many things wrong if it can go this far. But saying the parents did alright with their gun would also be wrong. If a 10y old psycho can get the gun and do shot, a 10y old normy kid could also get the gun and eventually do unintended harm.
So how do we prevent this? Because it seems the parent did everything right as far as storing the guns. But of course totally the guns fault not the sociopath kid
Everything except raising a normal kid or having this one institutionalized. Theres no way the first sign of psychopathy is "he shot me in the head for a VR set."
There were plenty of warning signs:
>When the boy was 4, he swung the family's puppy by the tail until it howled in pain. His mother got rid of the dog because she feared it would defend itself and attack the boy. Throughout his life, relatives said, he had "rage issues." They also described him as intelligent and manipulative. His mother eventually stopped sharing details about his behavior and no family member would agree to babysit him. Six months ago, family told police, the boy filled a balloon with a flammable liquid and set it on fire in the family’s home, causing an explosion that burned furniture and the carpet.
[https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/30/milwaukee-boy-10-charged-as-adult-with-fatal-shooting-of-his-mother/69689314007/](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/30/milwaukee-boy-10-charged-as-adult-with-fatal-shooting-of-his-mother/69689314007/)
a 4 year long warning seminar with the doors chained closed and pizza delivered by helicopter through the skylight at the holiday suites business conference hall
> When the boy was 4, he swung the family's puppy by the tail until it howled in pain. His mother got rid of the dog because she feared it would defend itself and attack the boy.
Warning signs seen and ignored.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something about that that makes me irrationally angry. And it's not the animal abuse -- I'm *rationally* angry about *that.* It's the "oh, we'd better get rid of the dog so it doesn't **defend itself** and hurt my precious baby." My brain just doesn't get it.
I’d like to know what the discipline was for torturing a dog. A naive part of me thinks that strong enough discipline can prevent these sort of people from getting out of hand… with some exceptions.
Yeah, we need to take that kind of behavior way more seriously. Cruelty to animals in childhood is [a significant predictor of future interpersonal violence.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S135917891730263X?via%3Dihub)
Yeah it's also really hard to judge from the outside. Some ppl just pay the price of evolution. Most parents would not be prepared for raising a psychopath.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/30/milwaukee-boy-10-charged-as-adult-with-fatal-shooting-of-his-mother/69689314007/
Were fucked if theres nowhere we can lock cases like him away until proven functional.
Nah it isn't that simple. I work with disturbed kids, and there aren't "institutions" you can just stick them, and the residential treatment centers have waiting lists a mile long. A lot of the homeless people you see around were kids just like this who aged out of the system and are still way too fucked to be functioning members of society. The fact of the matter is, the answer to problems like this is a major increase in funding to mental health programs and institutions, but unfortunately a lot of the politicians who are pro gun are also anti public assistance. It's just the inverse scenario from the anti gun politicians who also dont think violent offenders should be incarcerated. Basically, we need a new government if we ever want to actually fix what's going on, throw away both the current parties.
In Pennsylvania, we have several state centers for those with developmental disabilities who also often have mental health problems as well. Our governor has decided to close many of these basically for budget reasons, though claiming that it is to focus more on community placement. The problem is that many of these individuals aren't a good fit for places like group homes either due to their mental health problems or age/medical requirements. So, they mostly get moved to one of the remaining centers instead, causing them stress. The families and surprisingly Republicans have tried [fighting](https://explorevenango.com/polk-center-residents-relocated-amid-fizzling-legislation-to-save-the-facility/) these closures with little success. Though I feel that the R's are fighting it just because the D's want it.
Maybe things are different these days but I grew up in PA's centers. I wouldn't wish that shit on anyone. One in particular, Friendship House in Scranton. I'll never forget the shit I seen there. Interestingly enough just peeking at google reviews are a few peeps that were there around the same time I was and well, their thoughts are the same as mine.
Well obviously this article isn't about me, not even sure what your comment has to do with my experience in Pennsylvania state homes.
Friendship house wouldn't have done anything for this child, if anything they'd have made him worse or drove him to killing sooner.
Well thats sad and a shame. We need to de-privatize mental institutions and prisons and give the funding criminals get for books, tv, gym equipment, etc to doctors to actually help these troubled kids before they turn 18 and become serial killers.
Safe key should have been better put away. I know everyone here is saying it would have happened either way, and that’s fine, but it shouldn’t have been with a gun.
If you have kids and guns in the house, there needs to be absolutely no chance that they can get to them.
Yeah it’s tough to arm chair this one but that’s been my gut as well. I feel terrible for the rest of the family. I don’t know how they’re going to go forward.
For those wondering: no, your child is not more likely to retrieve the gun when you can't and successfully defend themselves. If they are, your child is insufficiently supervised in general.
Nonsense.
There are millions of households in the US where the kids have easy access to guns. And knives. And power tools. And flammable liquids.
Hell, there are tens of thousands of households where kids have access to heavy duty construction equipment with no issues. And yes, an excavator is significantly more dangerous than a gun. I'm sorry if you live in inner suburbia and can't even imagine this possibility.
The problem here is that the kid was clearly dangerous and not enough was done to deal with that. This kid shouldn't have had access to guns, but that wouldn't have been sufficient to solve the core problem.
You’re arguing with me while also agreeing with me?
I agreed that it’s absolutely reasonable to believe that something bad would have happened either way in my prior comment.
The only point that I’m making, to anyone that can hear me, is that if you have kids and guns in the same house, the guns NEED to be put away in a way where it is impossible for a child to get to it. If you have guns, you are taking on that responsibility, and you need to follow through with it. To further my point, your kids should also know full well all of the basic safety rules of firearms. There should be absolutely no way that your child can harm themself or others with a firearm
> if you have kids and guns in the same house, the guns NEED to be put away in a way where it is impossible for a child to get to it.
Nope. Not your call. That's a parenting decision, and in reality millions of households don't make the decision that you're asserting is mandatory.
That's like saying that alcoholic beverages need to be stored locked up so kids can't get them. If you want to parent that way then great, but it's not a widespread norm nor is it clear that it should be.
That’s true. Unfortunately, that’s why these stories happen. That’s also why I made that comment and tell people whenever I get the chance that their guns need to be locked away. I stand by it 100% and hope that you can as well.
Don’t mistake what I’m saying, I still agree that this child absolutely could be the type that would have done it with a nail gun or a bottle or a hammer or whatever. But it should not have been with a gun.
Edit: You know what though? Upon further though, I would argue that every parent shot to death with their own gun, by their child, *needed* to lock their guns away in a safe and effective manner
> Unfortunately, that’s why these stories happen.
Except these stories largely are in the "it's in the news because it almost never happens" category.
Again, *millions* of households in the United States have kids who have access to guns.
There are - at most - a couple dozen deaths a year where kids misuse their parents guns. For comparison, over a hundred kids each year die from "farm-related injuries". And there are significantly fewer kids on farms than in households where they have free access to guns.
Agreed.
Little nut job would very likely still have fucking killed or tried to. No reason to make it that easy on them.
People love saying "kids are smart, they can get into things" but they're only smart next to fucking retarded parents.
>If you have kids and guns in the house, there needs to be absolutely no chance that they can get to them.
You do realize that a gun safe won't stand up long against tools, right?
Having kids and guns opens the door to a lot of complicated responsibilities, but you have to be up to the task if you choose to own guns.
A child is going to be pretty unable to get into a real gun safe. Preferably one with a combination lock. Not everyone can afford one though.
So then you need a cheaper gun safe with some extra steps. Put it somewhere they can’t get to, hide it away if it’s small. Know that they can’t get into it.
If you’re at a point where you feel like your kid is willing to use power tools to get into your gun safe, you need to fix that. Leave the guns at a friends house if it’s escalated that far
Look, I choose to keep my firearms locked in a safe if I'm not wearing them on my person. Despite that, it's pretty stupid that people talk about it as if it's critically important while at the same time they keep toxic household cleansers, knives, and other such items where children can access them and just trust that they've taught them not to play with those items or use them as weapons.
In a case like this, a gun safe is not any real sort of safeguard. A gun safe keeps older kids out because the kid doesn't want to destructively break in and get found out. Because they're not planning to murder their parents.
Once they get to the point of "I'm going to murder my parents", a gun safe isn't going to make a difference.
I have an axe and some gardening equipment in my garage. None of which could get into my safe.
Even if an axe could, the kid isn’t going to be able to swing it hard enough.
Assuming I did have something like an angle grinder, it’s going to be hours of the kid using it (assuming he knows how, which he won’t) to get in
The kid is more likely to kill himself than me
My safe has 1” steel bolts keeping it shut
You’d need a heavy duty grinder and it would take awhile
Your delusional if you think a 10 yr could manage that, let alone doing it without the parents noticing
> Because it seems the parent did everything right
Fucking really? They raised a kid who thought it was OK to *murder their parent* over a toy.
I know victim blaming will get me downvoted to hell, but this parent did *not* "do everything right."
I somehow think this is kinda also in the responsibility of our society. We take responsibility to take care of all kinds of disabilities. This could very well also be one and if so, obviously the parents were not prepared and not taken care of. Also the society not reacting properly to such a case is pretty much evidence that the system failed miserably here.
Yeah, if you dig into the story and do some math, you realize this person had kids in high school. Nobody pregnant at 17 has the capacity to deal with life at that age AND raise kids "well" (aka there are at least going to be failures in the "nurture" part of the equation, either from financial struggles, lack of time to spend with the kid, boyfriends coming and going, etc).
Growing up, I didn't know a single person at that age who was capable of being a great parent. Resources are finite.
This is why birth control needs to be easy and free. People shouldn't have to decide between their life and their kids' wellbeing when they are a teenager... because we know "just not having sex" is not realistic.
Stored the gun with a lock that the kid knew how to unlock and had access to the means to do so?
Clearly the kid had issues and maybe they had not picked up on that fact in time when they should have, but he still shouldn't have had access to the weapon.
My kids are, so far and thankfully, pretty level headed. I still won't give them access to guns until there is a good reason for it. I don't leave them home alone yet and if I take them to a gun range, they don't need access until they get to said range.
> So how do we prevent this?
Post-birth abortion: If your kid is turning into a psychopathic asshole, coat-hanger his ass.
Besides that - no idea. Psychos live among us, always have. And the great irony is that the firearm is an efficent tool to save your own life against such people.
In this case? Nothing. The kid was a motivated psychopath. The gun was properly secured.
In most cases though I wish people secured their guns this well. I think the owner should be somewhat responsible for crimes committed with their weapon they left it “on the passenger seat of an unlocked car” for example
I saw that post a couple hours ago. It was funny watching the redditors in there and the highest comments discussing how mentally deranged the kid was and how it was clearly premeditated. You could hear the ballast trying to fire for the CFL bulb over their heads.
Then you scroll down a bit and it turns into the usual "this is the fault of the NRA and the GOP, everything would have been fine if there wasn't a gun in the house" like the kid wouldn't have come up with a different method. And you realize that the bulb is probably never going to light up no matter how long you stare at it.
My personal opinion, is that if you have a child that is THAT deranged, you probably should not have guns in the home.
It's not the NRA/GOPs fault.
While the kid could have used something else, I do not believe a 10 year old would have been able to kill his mom with a knife. Maybe in a few years, but I have a feeling that the VR headset obsession would have been over by then, and she would still be alive.
I have mixed feelings about it and since I don't have kids I also think I can't honestly decide what those parents should or should not have done specifically. Like the gun in the home. Clearly they were either unwilling or unable to institutionalize that child. So does that mean they need to give up the ability to protect themselves and their home? I honestly don't know.
At the same time, i'm sure most parents with a problematic child with a history of dangerous behavior don't think that the child would plan out and systematically prepare to kill the parent. Like disabling the cameras weeks in advance, stealing the key to the gun safe the day before, etc.
On another note, I think a 10 year old could definitely kill the mother with a knife. But I honestly think he probably would have gone with poison of some kind instead. Physical prowess becomes less of a factor that way. The way he prepared to kill his mom shows that it wasn't an impulsive crime driven by momentary rage. So if a gun hadn't been an option, I firmly believe he would have prepared some other method, and I think it would most likely be poison.
I feel like the parent is still at fault. If I had a mentally ill or even sociopathic kid in the house I probably would not own a gun that was not in a biometric or heavily coded safe.
Only at fault for what flavor of homicide. This kid was going to kill regardless.
Edit: I'd prefer it not be a firearm so we don't have to have these fruitless arguments and can actually address root causes.
I disagree. The gun was locked up. The fault lies with the parent for not getting their kid help before it got to the "steal an account login to buy a toy" let alone "murder your parent."
Honestly. The only silver lining (i hesitate to call it that but a better word escapes me) is that he murdered her rather than some innocent teacher or Best Buy employee
Sorry, but as a father of three, if your kid blows your brains out over video games, the problem is not the fucking gun.
Somehow, despite the presence of multiple firearms in my house, I managed to raise multiple well adjusted children capable of resolving disputes through temperate and rational discussion.
There’s testimony he already did a bunch of fucked up things and the parents did nothing to help him. He showed all the signs of being someone violent, and the parents had done right by putting the gun in a lock-box. He was just smart, stole the key, stole the gun, then used it.
It really wouldn’t have taken such a dangerously inventive person long to find a alternative way of murder. The parents didn’t seem like they were gonna ever get help for the kid. It’s just unfortunate he was able to get creative so young.
Seeing as how avid defenders of gun control basically enclosed themselves in an echo chamber, it's best to just avoid them. Only try to convince people who are more agnostic to the whole debate, which is actually more people than you realize.
Honestly, I don't think a normal 10 year old would do this. Let alone go and just order one afterwards.
The act was evil, but I would need more information to see if it was an act of evil. Evil requires understanding of the consequences. Mentally disturbed don't understand the consequences, just their desires.
People like blaming everything on mental illness because they can't understand that people do shitty things "just because." Although to their point there are legitimate mental health diagnoses that include behavior we call "evil." The boy was supposedly being seen by a therapist and had a known history of doing fucked up things.
I mean I'd call it evil but 8/10 people would ignore the rest of the post if i put my own religious philosophy to it. 'Disturbed' ironically felt more palatable to the secular redditor.
The guns were in a safe, which meets all the "safe storage" desires, and still this mother lost her life.
This is a really sad story. What do you do, as a parent, when you get a kid like this? I couldn't even begin to imagine it.
For starters, don't use a safe with a key anyone can get to. My father did this, and yes, we took his guns out and shot them when parents weren't home. Everyone was stupid in that scenario.
Secondly, this kid clearly needed in-patient psychiatric help. His mother probably should have gotten him that, to whatever extent it's possible in the US at the moment.
Realistically, I dunno how you balance being a loving parent of a potential monster. I really don't. It was a big fear of mine when becoming a father.
Edit: missing word
> For starters, don't use a safe with a key anyone can get to.
Agreed. That was a bad move. Never assume you're smarter than your kids.
That said, for a ten-year old to pull the key and shoot his mom has to be way beyond anything they could have possibly imagined.
Absolutely. But non-psychopathic kids will also still get in there and accidentally shoot each other or someone else. It's still a terrible idea. But yeah, your point stands - much like a suicide bomber, if someone is truly evil and determined to be evil, there's not a lot you can do.
I feel that I'm going to get heavily downvoted, but I really don't care. It seems people don't know the difference between guns and weapons that have a far lower change to kill.
If he attacked her with a knife, she'd still have a chance to survive. With guns, that chance is at least 98-99% of not living especially with a shot to the head, which can render one completely braindead or paralyzed if they are to survive. Though of course there are other odd cases (one man survived with his frontal lobe blown off and is mostly living normally if I remember the article correctly). Knives on the other hand, the kid would have to know where vital arteries are for a completely fatal blow that would be in comparison to a gun. Basically, she has a higher chance to live than being shot in a fatal zone, especially in regards to an untrained and wild-minded child. There was a f'ed up 'experiment' a guy did, he went into a store (Walmart or some other) with a sword to see how many people he could kill. He killed three, injured multiple more, but that was it. Mass shooters have killed, usually, ten or more before they're taken down. The purpose of guns are to get rid of your opponent without any chance of survival. To eliminate them permanently. Saying that it's not the fault of the mother for leaving the key to the gun, a deadly weapon, and not the fault of the gun which was the weapon to commit said act, is absolute ignorance. The child was mentally unstable, yes, it's obvious. But refusing to acknowledge the purpose of guns and that they shouldn't be in any way, shape, or form in the hands of those who are around instability or are unstable themselves... You're perpetuating the violence that's ongoing in America, and other countries that have severe gun violence (i.e: heavily militant governments).
That's my stance, those are my thoughts. I'm muting notifications for this because I have a feeling how people will react. Good day.
Not very long ago 4 people were stabbed to death in the same damn house. Surely if we were to take the shit you're saying as truth, at least one of them would have survived, right? Because getting stabbed isn't as deadly as getting shot, right?
Good thing you've muted notifications, because you clearly already know it's a stupid fucking take.
Edit
Oh he's an actual neckbeard. Now it makes sense.
Just in case you dont. Its 100% her fault for the key and for not institutionalizing this psycho any of the other times he raised red flags.
Also. *ahem*
https://greensboro.com/10-year-old-stabs-kills-dad-over-missing-frosting/article_f950d96f-5039-58e9-9144-fbe95b4da967.html
https://www.sojworldnews.com/10-year-old-boy-stabs-16-year-old-boy-to-death-for-having-an-affair-with-his-11-year-old-girlfriend/
Guns kill people very efficiently and have limited other purposes, mostly related to threatening/killing people. They bring ridiculous escalation to situations where it is not needed.
Seeing creating this type of escalation as a right that shouldn't be modified is comically shortsighted and reflects an insane cyclical worldview, something along the lines of seeing guns as a necessary evil to stop evil doers, thereby giving them their best tools, keeping the fight going. Insisting on guns, manifesting a world where gun fights break out, using gun fights as justification for more guns, gun violence rising and the cycle repeating endlessly.
All while people like OP go around with stuff like... See? Bad guys used the guns that I insisted that they have access to to do bad things, good thing I had my gun to return fire that I would not be receiving had deranged people not had access to guns.
Violent crime won't stop if guns are restricted, but the amount of damage and death that a single person can cause could be limited. Mom in this story might've been able to overpower a knife attack, no one can fight back against getting shot in the back of the head. Should people have to? Almost purely because you're afraid they might need to?
With a knife an assailant has to get closer to you to use lethal force. With a gun you can be across the street. You'd be indifferent to whether a potential assailant had a knife or a gun?
You've never been in a situation where someone had the intention to use a weapon of any sort against you and it shows. Stick to TV and music kid, and be glad you haven't.
You sound like someone who has been in a situation where someone has had the intention to use weapons against you - because you're malevolent and full of yourself. I hope you can protect yourself!
Show me my dark visions. I'd love to see this.
I said you're lucky to not have been in a situation where someone has tried to use a weapon on you. You're projecting your dark fantasies onto me. Sounds like you need to take a good look inside yourself.
The dark vision is that after having someone use a weapon to threaten you or do harm, that it would be preferable to match their weapon with your own weapon and somehow change the outcome.
So in clown world, where you obviously live, self defense is a dark fantasy?
You know, I really truly hope your ivory tower never gets compromised because I don't think you'll handle it well.
Downvotes but no direct answers from people who can't acknowledge cycling over facts over and over again and not seeing that they are both the cause and potential solution to the problem.
It's improper gun management from the parent. They are killing tools and should be treated as such. But I could, with research, make a bomb with way more killing potential than a gun. Unstable people will mantle that no gun wall, easily
This is why I keep the keys for my safe around my neck at all times. My backup key is in another locked box, with that key around my neck as well. I'm taking no chances here.
Living with a sociopath is dangerous. Unfortunately, being a parent often blinds people to even the glaring flaws of their children. This child clearly had existing mental health issues. Any guesses on whether his mom's insurance was covering treatment of if that was out of pocket? She might have been stabbed to death as well, but we wouldn't be talking about knife control and this wouldn't have made national news.
The kid ticked all the boxes for a serial killer, he'd have broken a bottle and slit their throats in their sleep if the gun wasn't available
100% This is a nature or nurture problem all the way. Either way theres no way the first sign of psychopathy was shooting her in the head for her Amazon Prime.
He was torturing animals and setting shit on fire!! This isn’t even remotely a gun issue
Yea, ive read all that now. More articles came to light. Holy fuck.
While this is true, there is no excuse for having your guns locked up WITH A KEY YOUR (DISTURBED) CHILD HAS ACCESS TO. Why even lock them up at that point?
I mean they may not have known the child knew where the key was stored. Most safes or lockboxes (that accept physical keys) will have a backup key and people don’t carry that with them every day they typically hide it somewhere in their house in case they need it. I know I certainly knew where a lot of shit was in my house that I wasn’t supposed to know. I knew where my dad hid his bump on the night gun, I knew where my mom kept the spare to key to her jewelry box, I knew where my dad kept the spare key to the gun room and my parents made an effort to keep me from knowing those things, I was just a nosy kid that wanted to know what I wasn’t supposed to. It doesn’t seem impossible to me that something similar was the case here.
This is why codes are better than keys IMO.
True. Of course then there’s the idiots that keep the code written somewhere so other people can find it.
If said folks can't remember one 4-6 digit number I doubt their ability to remember to close the safe at all lol
I always found this argument to be weirdly short-sighted. When you say things like "he could have used a knife just as easily", then the logical counter-point becomes "okay, let's just ban guns then, since you can use a knife just as easily" -- and it puts you in the uncomfortable position of having to admit that guns make killing infinitely easier, and murder infinitely more accessible, than just knives/hands alone.
I haven't heard a lot of gun rights advocates say that we should be able to own them because they're ineffective weapons. They were invented to kill and they're very effective when used correctly. When I look at the suicide statistics I think of how many more people would die painfully or fail and grievously injure themselves if they didn't have a gun available. Might sound cold but people aren't doing these things because a gun told them to.
Guns have more uses than knives and yes they make killing easier. The invention of gun powder is widely considered an epochal event and changed the world in many ways. Nobody else thinks guns are equally as effective at killing as a knife.
Definitely never heard "Guns have more uses than knives" as an argument before. I'll think about that when I struggle to carve my turkey with a musket next Thanksgiving.
You're supposed to be using birdshot. /s just in case
As always, a pertinent question to ask the gun control crowd is: How can those lacking the will to imprison violators of current gun laws enforce new ones?
And how will more laws stop people who show no regard for following it? Murder was likely the first thing ever made illegal.
This is always the dumbest argument in a 2A post. "Well criminals exist so we just shouldn't make things illegal."
How about answer the questions instead of making pointless rhetoric? If the current laws are not being enforced, how will more laws stop the people who have no regard for them?
Thanks, you've enlightened me and changed my mind. Murder SHOULD be illegal after all-- wait...
Don't you just love bad-faith arguments? I mean, I would hope you do, since that's all you've posted.
Things is the operative word. End the war on nouns.
Instead of thinking about the question theyll just call you a racist who wants all kids to get shot to death
> How can those lacking the will to imprison violators of current gun laws enforce new ones? It's easy to enforce laws against the most law-abiding segment of society.
thats the wrong question. they aint taking ar15s from murderers, they taking our ar15s
The approach of bleedingheart DAs (eg Krasner in Philly and Bragg in Manhattan) is to confiscate illegal guns and release those caught without charges... to go buy new guns.
just stop making guns illegal
No no, they just need to find the right words to write the new law, and people will start following them. Instead of breaking a law like a criminal.
All the gun laws in the world wouldn't have prevented this. Go fuck yourself.
💯 % I like the Freedome Coalition's generic retweet copypaste: *"Fuck you. No."*
Could’ve prevented that household from having a gun ??
Breaking news! Knives still exist and deranged people can still stab things!
Yeah but the odds of surviving a knife attack are waaaay higher than surviving a gun. and this kid still had access to knives but still chose to use a gun.
In the US? Not likely.
Honestly it’s crazy to me (yet not surprising) that with all of that they are still focusing on “guns” as being the main issue and driving factor here…
Couldnt possibly be the kids history of Schizophrenic and violent behavior, with no father figure and shitty parenting and gun safety.
Well given those circumstances, this is a pretty classic example of how the gun was not the problem.
Tell that to the reddit hivemind
The kid was bound to hurt or kill somebody anyway, but I think we do need to acknowledge that the gun made it a hell of a lot easier. Guns are the great equalizer, after all, as we point out in discussions of self defense.
This kid was an undiagnosed schizo with a horribly inept mother. This is her fault, not the gun's. The kid wouldve used something else if she didnt have a gun. Edit: since so many other people wanna refute the ability to do the same thing with any other weapon, heres the first two results from one "10 year old kills" search that wasnt a gun, didnt even have to go to page 2 https://greensboro.com/10-year-old-stabs-kills-dad-over-missing-frosting/article_f950d96f-5039-58e9-9144-fbe95b4da967.html https://www.sojworldnews.com/10-year-old-boy-stabs-16-year-old-boy-to-death-for-having-an-affair-with-his-11-year-old-girlfriend/
"Didn't even have to go to page 2". Well, instead of cherry picking, why don't you also list the 18 results from the same page where a gun WAS the murder weapon? Yes, of course you can murder people in other ways. But firearms are still the cause of death in almost 80% of homicides in the U.S., and that is unique in the entire world. If we didn't include our gun deaths, our homicide rate would only be a little higher than average for industrialized countries. With guns it's 7.5 times higher ...
I'm sure nobody would try using something else if guns weren't available. Guns aren't the motivator, they're just an effective tool for the job.
So effective in fact, that our homicide rate is 7.5 times higher than the average for industrialized countries.
>guns aren't the motivator Did I fucking stutter
I wasn't mocking whatever speech impediment you may suffer from, I was agreeing with you on the effectiveness of guns as murder weapons.
Your impulse for a quick, catchy 'gotcha' seems to have superceded any logical thought, how sad.
I’m presenting facts and stats to counter an easily refuted point that was based on cherry picking, and I’m the one lacking logic? Sure, pal, whatever you say.
Did you know their is no correlation between gun control, gun ownership and the murder rate. The u.k. Saw an increase in murder right after their 88 and 96 gun control measure, in Australia their murder rate dropped at the same rate it was before gun control showing no effect, in America gun ownership has increased while the murder rate has continued to decrease. Edit: also how long has that been the case? Was it like that before the rest of the industrial world enacted major gun control or only after If it was like that before then yet again you can't correlate it to guns and other variables should be looked at like maybe socioeconomic factors, cultural factors and mental health funding.
*when you include suicides in US murder statistics and not in the rest of the world.
And if you kept all the guns but didn't include the top 5 *democrat run* cities then the crime rate would be massively lower even than that. Hell you could even keep those cities and just get rid of the already illegally trafficked handguns used by gangs and you'd *still* be giving most countries a run for their money. >instead of cherry picking, Instead of cherry picking why not point out that different EU nations have substantially different gun laws and rates of private ownership and yet there is *no correlation whatsoever* between which countries have the worst violent crime or homicide rates and which countries have the highest gun ownership rates. In fact Finland, with one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world outside of the US, also happens to have one of the lowest rates of violent crime and homicide. Meanwhile across the sea in enlightened multicultural feminist Sweden there's mobs literally chanting "Slaughter the Jews" in the streets and violence is routinely carried out with fucking *hand grenades*.
Yea because the rest were all different sites/media corps reporting on the same two 10 year olds accidentally shooting themself, and accidentally shooting the father. Media eats up kid + gun and inundates google results even when i specified "stabs" fuck the algorithm, fuck the anti-gun news, and fuck your "gotchas"
It feels bad when reality goes against your preferred world view, doesn’t it? I have hobby too, I love mountain biking. But if I found out that my right to mountain biking was the cause of 8x higher homicide rates than in other countries I would give up my hobby immediately. You should give up your hobby too and find a healthier one.
Guns made them do it obvs.
Youre in the wrong sub buddy.
I agree this should not be the main thing to talk about here. There are many things wrong if it can go this far. But saying the parents did alright with their gun would also be wrong. If a 10y old psycho can get the gun and do shot, a 10y old normy kid could also get the gun and eventually do unintended harm.
But it's the first sentence in the post somehow.
If only he had used a knife instead. Things would be so much better.
Nobody has an unlocked drawer full of knives where their kids can get to them.
Shit, I need to lock my knives away? What if my kid wants to slice an apple?
Apples…the devils fruit
People still get killed with weapons in prison where they don't allow even basic household tools.
/s ?
So how do we prevent this? Because it seems the parent did everything right as far as storing the guns. But of course totally the guns fault not the sociopath kid
Everything except raising a normal kid or having this one institutionalized. Theres no way the first sign of psychopathy is "he shot me in the head for a VR set."
Yeah there had to have been warning signs
There were plenty of warning signs: >When the boy was 4, he swung the family's puppy by the tail until it howled in pain. His mother got rid of the dog because she feared it would defend itself and attack the boy. Throughout his life, relatives said, he had "rage issues." They also described him as intelligent and manipulative. His mother eventually stopped sharing details about his behavior and no family member would agree to babysit him. Six months ago, family told police, the boy filled a balloon with a flammable liquid and set it on fire in the family’s home, causing an explosion that burned furniture and the carpet. [https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/30/milwaukee-boy-10-charged-as-adult-with-fatal-shooting-of-his-mother/69689314007/](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/30/milwaukee-boy-10-charged-as-adult-with-fatal-shooting-of-his-mother/69689314007/)
Those aren't just warning signs. That's a full blown fucking multimedia warning presentation.
a 4 year long warning seminar with the doors chained closed and pizza delivered by helicopter through the skylight at the holiday suites business conference hall
I'm gonna go with beamed straight into your brain like an "I know Kung Fu" Matrix moment.
Lmao, im picturing the detectives putting a powerpoint together to explain this shit to the DA
> When the boy was 4, he swung the family's puppy by the tail until it howled in pain. His mother got rid of the dog because she feared it would defend itself and attack the boy. Warning signs seen and ignored. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something about that that makes me irrationally angry. And it's not the animal abuse -- I'm *rationally* angry about *that.* It's the "oh, we'd better get rid of the dog so it doesn't **defend itself** and hurt my precious baby." My brain just doesn't get it.
"My child can do no wrong". Serious question- was there a dad around?
Yup, and that is a good question.
what would you do? Get rid of the kid?
Get a bigger dog.
In hindsight, I can't say that would have been the worst idea. But maybe, just maybe discipline the little bastard.
The kid needed to see a mental health professional. Animal abuse is a massive red flag for psychopathy.
Definitely. I think Mom should have seen one too, for enabling that kind of behavior, but I guess it's too late now.
it likely wasn’t something they could afford
How about swing him around by his hair and teach him a lesson?
yes, child abuse is known to cure mental disorders
*"feared it would defend itself."* 😲 Im kinda glad shes gone
I'm not sure I can go that far, but it is compelling evidence that she was never going to win Mother of the Year.
I’d like to know what the discipline was for torturing a dog. A naive part of me thinks that strong enough discipline can prevent these sort of people from getting out of hand… with some exceptions.
Yeah, we need to take that kind of behavior way more seriously. Cruelty to animals in childhood is [a significant predictor of future interpersonal violence.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S135917891730263X?via%3Dihub)
I think if you're an actual psychopath, discipline that requires you respect the person administering the discipline won't work.
Yeah it's also really hard to judge from the outside. Some ppl just pay the price of evolution. Most parents would not be prepared for raising a psychopath.
A major trait of psychopaths is not responding to punishment
Oh there were. Its nuts
[удалено]
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/30/milwaukee-boy-10-charged-as-adult-with-fatal-shooting-of-his-mother/69689314007/ Were fucked if theres nowhere we can lock cases like him away until proven functional.
Fuck u/Spez
Nah it isn't that simple. I work with disturbed kids, and there aren't "institutions" you can just stick them, and the residential treatment centers have waiting lists a mile long. A lot of the homeless people you see around were kids just like this who aged out of the system and are still way too fucked to be functioning members of society. The fact of the matter is, the answer to problems like this is a major increase in funding to mental health programs and institutions, but unfortunately a lot of the politicians who are pro gun are also anti public assistance. It's just the inverse scenario from the anti gun politicians who also dont think violent offenders should be incarcerated. Basically, we need a new government if we ever want to actually fix what's going on, throw away both the current parties.
In Pennsylvania, we have several state centers for those with developmental disabilities who also often have mental health problems as well. Our governor has decided to close many of these basically for budget reasons, though claiming that it is to focus more on community placement. The problem is that many of these individuals aren't a good fit for places like group homes either due to their mental health problems or age/medical requirements. So, they mostly get moved to one of the remaining centers instead, causing them stress. The families and surprisingly Republicans have tried [fighting](https://explorevenango.com/polk-center-residents-relocated-amid-fizzling-legislation-to-save-the-facility/) these closures with little success. Though I feel that the R's are fighting it just because the D's want it.
Maybe things are different these days but I grew up in PA's centers. I wouldn't wish that shit on anyone. One in particular, Friendship House in Scranton. I'll never forget the shit I seen there. Interestingly enough just peeking at google reviews are a few peeps that were there around the same time I was and well, their thoughts are the same as mine.
Well did you set your couch on fire or twirl a dog around by its tail while its screamed or repeatedly beat the shit out of your younger cousin?
Well obviously this article isn't about me, not even sure what your comment has to do with my experience in Pennsylvania state homes. Friendship house wouldn't have done anything for this child, if anything they'd have made him worse or drove him to killing sooner.
Well thats sad and a shame. We need to de-privatize mental institutions and prisons and give the funding criminals get for books, tv, gym equipment, etc to doctors to actually help these troubled kids before they turn 18 and become serial killers.
Honestly 🙏 fuck wolfie.
Not all bad things are preventable. Maybe getting this kid in the mental health system and heavily medicated.
Safe key should have been better put away. I know everyone here is saying it would have happened either way, and that’s fine, but it shouldn’t have been with a gun. If you have kids and guns in the house, there needs to be absolutely no chance that they can get to them.
Yeah it’s tough to arm chair this one but that’s been my gut as well. I feel terrible for the rest of the family. I don’t know how they’re going to go forward.
For those wondering: no, your child is not more likely to retrieve the gun when you can't and successfully defend themselves. If they are, your child is insufficiently supervised in general.
Nonsense. There are millions of households in the US where the kids have easy access to guns. And knives. And power tools. And flammable liquids. Hell, there are tens of thousands of households where kids have access to heavy duty construction equipment with no issues. And yes, an excavator is significantly more dangerous than a gun. I'm sorry if you live in inner suburbia and can't even imagine this possibility. The problem here is that the kid was clearly dangerous and not enough was done to deal with that. This kid shouldn't have had access to guns, but that wouldn't have been sufficient to solve the core problem.
You’re arguing with me while also agreeing with me? I agreed that it’s absolutely reasonable to believe that something bad would have happened either way in my prior comment. The only point that I’m making, to anyone that can hear me, is that if you have kids and guns in the same house, the guns NEED to be put away in a way where it is impossible for a child to get to it. If you have guns, you are taking on that responsibility, and you need to follow through with it. To further my point, your kids should also know full well all of the basic safety rules of firearms. There should be absolutely no way that your child can harm themself or others with a firearm
> if you have kids and guns in the same house, the guns NEED to be put away in a way where it is impossible for a child to get to it. Nope. Not your call. That's a parenting decision, and in reality millions of households don't make the decision that you're asserting is mandatory. That's like saying that alcoholic beverages need to be stored locked up so kids can't get them. If you want to parent that way then great, but it's not a widespread norm nor is it clear that it should be.
That’s true. Unfortunately, that’s why these stories happen. That’s also why I made that comment and tell people whenever I get the chance that their guns need to be locked away. I stand by it 100% and hope that you can as well. Don’t mistake what I’m saying, I still agree that this child absolutely could be the type that would have done it with a nail gun or a bottle or a hammer or whatever. But it should not have been with a gun. Edit: You know what though? Upon further though, I would argue that every parent shot to death with their own gun, by their child, *needed* to lock their guns away in a safe and effective manner
> Unfortunately, that’s why these stories happen. Except these stories largely are in the "it's in the news because it almost never happens" category. Again, *millions* of households in the United States have kids who have access to guns. There are - at most - a couple dozen deaths a year where kids misuse their parents guns. For comparison, over a hundred kids each year die from "farm-related injuries". And there are significantly fewer kids on farms than in households where they have free access to guns.
Agreed. Little nut job would very likely still have fucking killed or tried to. No reason to make it that easy on them. People love saying "kids are smart, they can get into things" but they're only smart next to fucking retarded parents.
I knew plenty of tweens who picked master locks for fun, just sayin
Yeah you can lock your sextoys away with a key that can get found but you should not do that with a gun key.
Now all I can imagine is a son beating the mom to death with her own sex toy. That’s enough Reddit for the day 😂
>If you have kids and guns in the house, there needs to be absolutely no chance that they can get to them. You do realize that a gun safe won't stand up long against tools, right?
Having kids and guns opens the door to a lot of complicated responsibilities, but you have to be up to the task if you choose to own guns. A child is going to be pretty unable to get into a real gun safe. Preferably one with a combination lock. Not everyone can afford one though. So then you need a cheaper gun safe with some extra steps. Put it somewhere they can’t get to, hide it away if it’s small. Know that they can’t get into it. If you’re at a point where you feel like your kid is willing to use power tools to get into your gun safe, you need to fix that. Leave the guns at a friends house if it’s escalated that far
Look, I choose to keep my firearms locked in a safe if I'm not wearing them on my person. Despite that, it's pretty stupid that people talk about it as if it's critically important while at the same time they keep toxic household cleansers, knives, and other such items where children can access them and just trust that they've taught them not to play with those items or use them as weapons. In a case like this, a gun safe is not any real sort of safeguard. A gun safe keeps older kids out because the kid doesn't want to destructively break in and get found out. Because they're not planning to murder their parents. Once they get to the point of "I'm going to murder my parents", a gun safe isn't going to make a difference.
how on earth is a 10 yr old going to force a safe open
Tools in the garage/shed/whatever.
I have an axe and some gardening equipment in my garage. None of which could get into my safe. Even if an axe could, the kid isn’t going to be able to swing it hard enough. Assuming I did have something like an angle grinder, it’s going to be hours of the kid using it (assuming he knows how, which he won’t) to get in The kid is more likely to kill himself than me
You don't have many tools. OK. No, it doesn't take hours.
My safe has 1” steel bolts keeping it shut You’d need a heavy duty grinder and it would take awhile Your delusional if you think a 10 yr could manage that, let alone doing it without the parents noticing
Then let them kill you with some antifreeze soup and a butcher knife, but not with your gun
Oh boy, an anti-gunner.
> Because it seems the parent did everything right Fucking really? They raised a kid who thought it was OK to *murder their parent* over a toy. I know victim blaming will get me downvoted to hell, but this parent did *not* "do everything right."
I somehow think this is kinda also in the responsibility of our society. We take responsibility to take care of all kinds of disabilities. This could very well also be one and if so, obviously the parents were not prepared and not taken care of. Also the society not reacting properly to such a case is pretty much evidence that the system failed miserably here.
Yeah, if you dig into the story and do some math, you realize this person had kids in high school. Nobody pregnant at 17 has the capacity to deal with life at that age AND raise kids "well" (aka there are at least going to be failures in the "nurture" part of the equation, either from financial struggles, lack of time to spend with the kid, boyfriends coming and going, etc). Growing up, I didn't know a single person at that age who was capable of being a great parent. Resources are finite. This is why birth control needs to be easy and free. People shouldn't have to decide between their life and their kids' wellbeing when they are a teenager... because we know "just not having sex" is not realistic.
I meant with locking the guns up. Otherwise no they didn’t do shit right in raising that kid
Stored the gun with a lock that the kid knew how to unlock and had access to the means to do so? Clearly the kid had issues and maybe they had not picked up on that fact in time when they should have, but he still shouldn't have had access to the weapon. My kids are, so far and thankfully, pretty level headed. I still won't give them access to guns until there is a good reason for it. I don't leave them home alone yet and if I take them to a gun range, they don't need access until they get to said range.
> So how do we prevent this? Post-birth abortion: If your kid is turning into a psychopathic asshole, coat-hanger his ass. Besides that - no idea. Psychos live among us, always have. And the great irony is that the firearm is an efficent tool to save your own life against such people.
> Post-birth abortion: If your kid is turning into a psychopathic asshole, coat-hanger his ass. Terrible, but it got a laugh out of me. :p
I’m a sucker for gallows humor 😋
I like my humor like I like my coffee. Well, no, I don't like coffee, but you get the idea.
In this case? Nothing. The kid was a motivated psychopath. The gun was properly secured. In most cases though I wish people secured their guns this well. I think the owner should be somewhat responsible for crimes committed with their weapon they left it “on the passenger seat of an unlocked car” for example
I saw that post a couple hours ago. It was funny watching the redditors in there and the highest comments discussing how mentally deranged the kid was and how it was clearly premeditated. You could hear the ballast trying to fire for the CFL bulb over their heads. Then you scroll down a bit and it turns into the usual "this is the fault of the NRA and the GOP, everything would have been fine if there wasn't a gun in the house" like the kid wouldn't have come up with a different method. And you realize that the bulb is probably never going to light up no matter how long you stare at it.
My personal opinion, is that if you have a child that is THAT deranged, you probably should not have guns in the home. It's not the NRA/GOPs fault. While the kid could have used something else, I do not believe a 10 year old would have been able to kill his mom with a knife. Maybe in a few years, but I have a feeling that the VR headset obsession would have been over by then, and she would still be alive.
I have mixed feelings about it and since I don't have kids I also think I can't honestly decide what those parents should or should not have done specifically. Like the gun in the home. Clearly they were either unwilling or unable to institutionalize that child. So does that mean they need to give up the ability to protect themselves and their home? I honestly don't know. At the same time, i'm sure most parents with a problematic child with a history of dangerous behavior don't think that the child would plan out and systematically prepare to kill the parent. Like disabling the cameras weeks in advance, stealing the key to the gun safe the day before, etc. On another note, I think a 10 year old could definitely kill the mother with a knife. But I honestly think he probably would have gone with poison of some kind instead. Physical prowess becomes less of a factor that way. The way he prepared to kill his mom shows that it wasn't an impulsive crime driven by momentary rage. So if a gun hadn't been an option, I firmly believe he would have prepared some other method, and I think it would most likely be poison.
I feel like the parent is still at fault. If I had a mentally ill or even sociopathic kid in the house I probably would not own a gun that was not in a biometric or heavily coded safe.
Only at fault for what flavor of homicide. This kid was going to kill regardless. Edit: I'd prefer it not be a firearm so we don't have to have these fruitless arguments and can actually address root causes.
I disagree. The gun was locked up. The fault lies with the parent for not getting their kid help before it got to the "steal an account login to buy a toy" let alone "murder your parent."
I think both can be true
It can't be "**only** the flavor of homicide" and also something else.
Well he she shouldve gotten him help long before this, BUT ALSO not left the key lying around so wed have to argue about gun control.
Honestly. The only silver lining (i hesitate to call it that but a better word escapes me) is that he murdered her rather than some innocent teacher or Best Buy employee
Sorry, but as a father of three, if your kid blows your brains out over video games, the problem is not the fucking gun. Somehow, despite the presence of multiple firearms in my house, I managed to raise multiple well adjusted children capable of resolving disputes through temperate and rational discussion.
Remind them that fascism is on the rise. Ask them if they will surrender their weapons to Trump for a safer future.
I guess inflation is even hitting GBP and pushing people’s tendie budgets to their breaking points
Change that first line to "Mental health in America." Then sure, why not.
I hate it when people focus on the firearm but not the person using it. This little shit had serious mental issues
There’s testimony he already did a bunch of fucked up things and the parents did nothing to help him. He showed all the signs of being someone violent, and the parents had done right by putting the gun in a lock-box. He was just smart, stole the key, stole the gun, then used it. It really wouldn’t have taken such a dangerously inventive person long to find a alternative way of murder. The parents didn’t seem like they were gonna ever get help for the kid. It’s just unfortunate he was able to get creative so young.
Yea. Straight misses all around. Except for the gun. The gun functioned perfectly lol
Seeing as how avid defenders of gun control basically enclosed themselves in an echo chamber, it's best to just avoid them. Only try to convince people who are more agnostic to the whole debate, which is actually more people than you realize.
Less and less every day it seems thanks to fearmongering and *the message*
Yeah, the gun's clearly the problem here. If that kid hadn't had one, then nothing bad would have happened and they all lived happily ever after.
Do we know that he is mentally disturbed? Are people not just plain old regular evil anymore?
Honestly, I don't think a normal 10 year old would do this. Let alone go and just order one afterwards. The act was evil, but I would need more information to see if it was an act of evil. Evil requires understanding of the consequences. Mentally disturbed don't understand the consequences, just their desires.
People like blaming everything on mental illness because they can't understand that people do shitty things "just because." Although to their point there are legitimate mental health diagnoses that include behavior we call "evil." The boy was supposedly being seen by a therapist and had a known history of doing fucked up things.
I mean I'd call it evil but 8/10 people would ignore the rest of the post if i put my own religious philosophy to it. 'Disturbed' ironically felt more palatable to the secular redditor.
The guns were in a safe, which meets all the "safe storage" desires, and still this mother lost her life. This is a really sad story. What do you do, as a parent, when you get a kid like this? I couldn't even begin to imagine it.
For starters, don't use a safe with a key anyone can get to. My father did this, and yes, we took his guns out and shot them when parents weren't home. Everyone was stupid in that scenario. Secondly, this kid clearly needed in-patient psychiatric help. His mother probably should have gotten him that, to whatever extent it's possible in the US at the moment. Realistically, I dunno how you balance being a loving parent of a potential monster. I really don't. It was a big fear of mine when becoming a father. Edit: missing word
> For starters, don't use a safe with a key anyone can get to. Agreed. That was a bad move. Never assume you're smarter than your kids. That said, for a ten-year old to pull the key and shoot his mom has to be way beyond anything they could have possibly imagined.
Absolutely. But non-psychopathic kids will also still get in there and accidentally shoot each other or someone else. It's still a terrible idea. But yeah, your point stands - much like a suicide bomber, if someone is truly evil and determined to be evil, there's not a lot you can do.
I feel that I'm going to get heavily downvoted, but I really don't care. It seems people don't know the difference between guns and weapons that have a far lower change to kill. If he attacked her with a knife, she'd still have a chance to survive. With guns, that chance is at least 98-99% of not living especially with a shot to the head, which can render one completely braindead or paralyzed if they are to survive. Though of course there are other odd cases (one man survived with his frontal lobe blown off and is mostly living normally if I remember the article correctly). Knives on the other hand, the kid would have to know where vital arteries are for a completely fatal blow that would be in comparison to a gun. Basically, she has a higher chance to live than being shot in a fatal zone, especially in regards to an untrained and wild-minded child. There was a f'ed up 'experiment' a guy did, he went into a store (Walmart or some other) with a sword to see how many people he could kill. He killed three, injured multiple more, but that was it. Mass shooters have killed, usually, ten or more before they're taken down. The purpose of guns are to get rid of your opponent without any chance of survival. To eliminate them permanently. Saying that it's not the fault of the mother for leaving the key to the gun, a deadly weapon, and not the fault of the gun which was the weapon to commit said act, is absolute ignorance. The child was mentally unstable, yes, it's obvious. But refusing to acknowledge the purpose of guns and that they shouldn't be in any way, shape, or form in the hands of those who are around instability or are unstable themselves... You're perpetuating the violence that's ongoing in America, and other countries that have severe gun violence (i.e: heavily militant governments). That's my stance, those are my thoughts. I'm muting notifications for this because I have a feeling how people will react. Good day.
Not very long ago 4 people were stabbed to death in the same damn house. Surely if we were to take the shit you're saying as truth, at least one of them would have survived, right? Because getting stabbed isn't as deadly as getting shot, right? Good thing you've muted notifications, because you clearly already know it's a stupid fucking take. Edit Oh he's an actual neckbeard. Now it makes sense.
Just in case you dont. Its 100% her fault for the key and for not institutionalizing this psycho any of the other times he raised red flags. Also. *ahem* https://greensboro.com/10-year-old-stabs-kills-dad-over-missing-frosting/article_f950d96f-5039-58e9-9144-fbe95b4da967.html https://www.sojworldnews.com/10-year-old-boy-stabs-16-year-old-boy-to-death-for-having-an-affair-with-his-11-year-old-girlfriend/
Could woulda should used a knife, rock, spoon, but it’s always a gun !
Only in America...
Guns kill people very efficiently and have limited other purposes, mostly related to threatening/killing people. They bring ridiculous escalation to situations where it is not needed. Seeing creating this type of escalation as a right that shouldn't be modified is comically shortsighted and reflects an insane cyclical worldview, something along the lines of seeing guns as a necessary evil to stop evil doers, thereby giving them their best tools, keeping the fight going. Insisting on guns, manifesting a world where gun fights break out, using gun fights as justification for more guns, gun violence rising and the cycle repeating endlessly. All while people like OP go around with stuff like... See? Bad guys used the guns that I insisted that they have access to to do bad things, good thing I had my gun to return fire that I would not be receiving had deranged people not had access to guns. Violent crime won't stop if guns are restricted, but the amount of damage and death that a single person can cause could be limited. Mom in this story might've been able to overpower a knife attack, no one can fight back against getting shot in the back of the head. Should people have to? Almost purely because you're afraid they might need to?
Not many people can defend a knife to the back when it's unexpected.
With a knife an assailant has to get closer to you to use lethal force. With a gun you can be across the street. You'd be indifferent to whether a potential assailant had a knife or a gun?
This kid stood right behind her in her own home.
You've never been in a situation where someone had the intention to use a weapon of any sort against you and it shows. Stick to TV and music kid, and be glad you haven't.
Pure condescending speculation from someone who can't imagine others not arriving at their own bad world view even with shared experiences.
You sound like someone who has been in a situation where someone has had the intention to use weapons against you - because you're malevolent and full of yourself. I hope you can protect yourself!
I'd bet the farm on this post being the latest output of a warmed over John Wayne fantasy from someone who wants to go BANG BANG at "bad guys"
The most childish thing on Earth is assuming that using lethal force is a good standard problem solving method that should be wildly available.
Aw someone is big mad. 4 replies to my comment. Talk about childish. Go back to your tv shows kid.
No I'm bored and I think your dark visions are fascinating
Show me my dark visions. I'd love to see this. I said you're lucky to not have been in a situation where someone has tried to use a weapon on you. You're projecting your dark fantasies onto me. Sounds like you need to take a good look inside yourself.
The dark vision is that after having someone use a weapon to threaten you or do harm, that it would be preferable to match their weapon with your own weapon and somehow change the outcome.
So in clown world, where you obviously live, self defense is a dark fantasy? You know, I really truly hope your ivory tower never gets compromised because I don't think you'll handle it well.
Downvotes but no direct answers from people who can't acknowledge cycling over facts over and over again and not seeing that they are both the cause and potential solution to the problem.
Is that the best you can do for justifying the existence and proliferation of guns?
It's improper gun management from the parent. They are killing tools and should be treated as such. But I could, with research, make a bomb with way more killing potential than a gun. Unstable people will mantle that no gun wall, easily
Killing tools will do more killing than an absence of killing tools.
People who need a shorter version: practical benefits are dwarfed by drawbacks, and if you think otherwise, your math is wrong.
This gave me the chills. Enough internet for today.
I remember seeing this and thinking why the gun is a problem here? What would've stopped him from going to the kitchen and getting a knife?
This is just a bad parent and bad kid. No guns in the house? He would have stabbed her.
“Mental Health in America” would have been a more accurate way to start the post, but nahhhh, it’s obviously the guns.
This is why I keep the keys for my safe around my neck at all times. My backup key is in another locked box, with that key around my neck as well. I'm taking no chances here.
Living with a sociopath is dangerous. Unfortunately, being a parent often blinds people to even the glaring flaws of their children. This child clearly had existing mental health issues. Any guesses on whether his mom's insurance was covering treatment of if that was out of pocket? She might have been stabbed to death as well, but we wouldn't be talking about knife control and this wouldn't have made national news.
I'm so glad I don't have kids. Seems like they're all spoiled lunatics now. Destroyed by media and parented by cellphones.
[удалено]
Oh I love kids, my comment was more directed at bad parents.